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French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

406 points by begueradj 1y ago

rapsey 1y ago
So he used money from Libya to get elected and then later he bombed them?
- adev_ 1y ago
  In short, yes. Additionally budget for political campaigns are strictly regulated in France. And getting bribes from foreign dictator is, of course, not allowed. The reason he did not get condemned also for that is that the judge could not proove the usage of the money.
  - timeon 1y ago
    > And getting bribes from foreign dictator is, of course, not allowed. Couldn't he setup some crypto fund instead? Or investment in ballroom? Or simply just receive present, let say plane, instead of money? Would that help him in this case?
    - vkou 1y ago
      In a country with a working judiciary, unlikely. In a banana republic, the optics don't really matter in these kinds of situations.
    - adev_ 1y ago
      > Couldn't he setup some crypto fund instead? Or investment in ballroom? Or simply just receive present, let say plane, instead of money? Would that help him in this case? An other French politician, Francois Fillon, tried that with bribes as gift including some luxury Suits. In addition of some public money redirection to his own family. And it did not play well for him either. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fillon_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fillon_affair Ironically, he was Sarkozy's Prime Minster. The party that they both come from (The republicans, previously UMP, previously RPR) has a long history of financial abuses and associated judgements. The only "new" thing here is that it explicitly condemned a previous President.
- moralestapia 1y ago
  I'll have to read more into this, but it says he just "conspired" to do it, whatever that means. The solitary confinement part is quite harsh, I've never understood how that is supposed to rehabilitate someone. In France there's early release, parole, etc. so real time he spends behind bars might be as low as two years. Edit: The WP article is actually a very interesting read, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_financing_in_the_2007_French_presidential_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_financing_in_the_2007_F...
  - seszett 1y ago
    > The solitary confinement part is quite harsh, I've never understood how that is supposed to rehabilitate someone. In this case it's for his own wellbeing, because it's probably difficult for a former president to go along well with the rest of the prison population. I also read a statement that it would help prevent other inmates taking and publicly sharing pictures of him (since some inmates do manage to have phones even if they are forbidden). Prison in general is one of the worst ways to rehabilitate someone though, I do agree with you.
    - kergonath 1y ago
      > it's probably difficult for a former president to go along well with the rest of the prison population Particularly for him who was very keen to be seen as tough on crime to get votes from the far right.
  - byroot 1y ago
    > I'll have to read more into this, but it says he just "conspired" to do it, whatever that means. The court couldn't prove beyond reasonable doubt that the money was used for his campaign. However they were able to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he knew what his subordinates were planing and that he did nothing to stop it. In France conspiring to commit a crime is punishable, regardless of whether the crime actually happened or not. That's a law that has been crafted by Sarkozy's own party. > The solitary confinement part is quite harsh The solitary part isn't a punishment, but to ensure his safety. They even went as far as to allocated another cell for the two full time police officers of his security detail... Also the upside is that he has a cell for himself, something a lot of prisoners would love to have given the over prison occupancy in France is 137% (and up to 200% in some specific prisons).
- pfannkuchen 1y ago
  I think he was trying to chase the Libyans into France.
- csomar 1y ago
  More like bombed Gaddafi and guaranteed his downfall than bombed "Libya". It is probably a bit more complicated than that, though. The U.S./NATO were also involved and there is a lot of money there. He probably thought he could get away with it. But make no mistake this is a political play and everyone involved is as dirty as the Paris Seine.
  - _ache_ 1y ago
    Hey! The Seine isn't dirty as this guy. Maybe the Seine was heavily covered as dirty by the media but remember that you shouldn't swim in the San Francisco bay either. Wait for the next JO to hear about water quality problem with the LA beach area under rain.
    - SiempreViernes 1y ago
      Yeah, only a few contestants in the Olympics got sick after the triathlon! ;)
dmead 1y ago
The French understand how to run a society.
- rapsey 1y ago
  Politically deadlocked, failing economy, with the judiciary doing political dirty work?
  - belter 1y ago
    Government shutdown...convicted rapist as President.. ;-)
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  - forgotoldacc 1y ago
    Seventh biggest economy with the 21st biggest population seems like an economy that punches above its weight. Plus a low GINI coefficient suggests there's less wealth divide than a lot of other places. Seems like they have a mature economy and don't need to grow forever like a tumor. Once you reach a certain point, optimizing for quality of life seems nice, and the French do seem to aim for that.
    - alex_duf 1y ago
      I think unfortunately both can be true at the same time, politically deadlock AND punching above its weight. There's a lot to fix in France, and a lot of things going well.
    - fraboniface 1y ago
      While "quality of life first" remains true in spirit for a lot of French people, this hasn't been supported politically since 2000 (when legal weekly work time was reduced to 35 hours - many people do more but they are compensated for it). And even that law was an exception. In truth, France has taken the neoliberal turn of the 80s almost as much as other countries, and growth and competitiveness has been the only mantra of governments for 40 years. We're mostly protected by laws passed before the 50s.
littlestymaar 1y ago
For context, it's not even the first time he's condemned, but this time the crime was sever enough so he couldn't avoid prison. He delayed the case enough (almost 13 years) so that he's now more than 70 though and I doubt he stays to long in prison because of his age. But it's nice to see that he couldn't run away from justice forever and is finally in jail.
- mytailorisrich 1y ago
  He should not be in jail now. His case is going to appeal but the court decided to still jail him now "provisionally" (exécution provisoire), which sounds like a political play. Coincidentally, the same is happening to Le Pen with respect to the decision to ban her from elections... As for "delaying" the case, this is just the French court system for you. Everything takes years and years.
  - aaplok 1y ago
    It is not political play. This is FUD spread by his political supporters. The "exécution provisoire" is a measure that was introduced when his own party was in power, to make sure that terrorists were jailed immediately. He happened to be condemned for breaching the same law (association de malfaiteurs) that is used against terrorists. I once read a comment by a lawyer that he was amazed by the number of politicians who ended up being caught by laws they had voted for. This is what happened here. In fact when he was president he implemented another law, on minimum mandatory sanctions for repeated offenders (peines plancher) which was repelled by the subsequent administration. He would have been caught by that too otherwise.
    - mytailorisrich 1y ago
      Political aspects of the justice system are never acknowledged for obvious reasons but it does not mean they don't exist. I cannot be sure of what is happening (hence "seems") but neither can you, especially regarding decisions that are discretionary. At least here there is a guilty verdict even if not final. In France people can be jailed for years without a trial...
boltzmann-brain 1y ago
oh I wish the American people were this brave
- leptons 1y ago
  Half of them are, half of them are not.
  - pbkompasz 1y ago
    more like third of them are, third of them are not and a third doesn't care
    - leptons 1y ago
      I can agree with that. I sometimes forget that quite a lot of voting-age people just don't vote.
- _ache_ 1y ago
  France population isn't very better, I can assure you, it's not about been brave. We just still have a working judiciary system. But for how long? It barely correctly financed and his independence his attacked every days in the oligarchy controlled medias. I hope you fix your judiciary system one day.
  - throw101010 1y ago
    Sarkozy himself tried to reform it and remove a key position in that system the "juge d'instruction" who conducts investigations indepedantly of the executive power in complex cases (like his many cases). It makes the procedures much more efficient and less prone to influence from the government. Fortunately he failed to do it when he was in power, and this is in my opinion a big factor in his current demise.
- falcor84 1y ago
  Reading up about Israeli politics, it seems that this might be a "be careful what you wish for" situation. They had previously put in prison both a prime minister and a president, and the disastrous governance there over the last decade and a half appears to be in large motivated by Netanyahu's almost certain knowledge that he'll go to prison if and when he loses his grip on the reins. The documentary The Bibi Files was a particularly interesting examination of the allegations against him and his almost shrugging response to them [0]. And going back to America, a week ago Trump asked the Israeli president to preemptively pardon Netanyahu during his speech at their parliament [1], which I find to be concerning on all possible levels. [0] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt33338697/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt33338697/ [1] https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/trump-urges-israels-president-pardon-netanyahu-2025-10-13/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/trump-urges-israel...
wiether 1y ago
Et la santé !
- _ache_ 1y ago
  French joke. He is jailed in a jail nicknamed "La Santé", which is also the the french cheers sentence. "À la votre *et la santé". Will be the running gag of this christmas and new year.
  - Beretta_Vexee 1y ago
    It's not a nickname. It's simply because the prison is located on Rue de la Santé (Health Street). Rue de la Santé was named that way because there was a hospital there from the 17th to the 19th century.
    - _ache_ 1y ago
      I hesitated to call it a nickname, as the name is "Paris-La Santé". But got covered by Wikipédia "https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_de_la_Sant%C3%A9 https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_de_la_Sant%C3%A9", so I did called it a nickname too. I'm pretty sure it can be called a "Métonymie de lieu" but I just didn't want to insist about that, it feels a little pedantic.
      - wiether 1y ago
        > it feels a little pedantic Typical French conversation then!
        Beretta_Vexee 1y ago
        Oh no, we hold back when we're here. For example, I didn't mention the possibility that it might simply be an ellipsis. And no one wants to talk about apocope.
qq66 1y ago
So is this a criminal president receiving justice, or a politically motivated prosecution?
- looobay 1y ago
  He received money from Libya for his presidential campaign [0], he's just a criminal ex-president... [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_financing_in_the_2007_French_presidential_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_financing_in_the_2007_F...
  - catwell 1y ago
    It's way more complicated than this. First, this is mostly about things that happened before his election. The tribunal ruled he did not personally benefit, and he did not directly solicit money to finance his campaign either. However, some of his closest allies (who would become his ministers later) did the latter. The tribunal could not find any direct proof he was involved but ruled there were enough "converging indications" that he knew and did nothing to stop it.
    - _ache_ 1y ago
      To be fair, the probability that the short explanation "He received money from Libya for his presidential campaign" is actually the truth is very high. There is no formal proofs, but as you say, (the judges deliberated that) there is enough "converging indications" to support the idea that the short explanation is true.
      - julienfr112 1y ago
        If the justice system doesn’t know exactly why it’s putting Sarkozy in prison, he does...
      - MaxL93 1y ago
        I'm sure the court could have gotten him on other charges, but they went with the absolutely 100% safe one rather than the other 99% safe ones. Sarkozy and all of his billionaire media allies are already trying their hardest to undermine the credibility of the justice system at every turn with extremely dangerous rhetoric; I dread to imagine what this would have been like had they gone with ever-so-slightly-less-safe charges
jakub_g 1y ago
In some ways, this reminds me of Bernard Tapie, called "a man with 1001 lives". It's a really interesting story from 1980s/90s of a self-made-businessman, turned politician, getting to the very top, doing deals with African leaders, becoming minister, having his football club (Marseille) win the European Champions League; which however was a turning point that started his downfall, as they bought a domestic game just before, to avoid injuries before the big final. A very interesting documentary [2] explains all this. There's also Netflix series that I didn't watch though. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Tapie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Tapie [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_football_bribery_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_football_bribery_scanda... [2] https://lcp.fr/programmes/les-mille-et-une-vies-de-bernard-tapie-83197 https://lcp.fr/programmes/les-mille-et-une-vies-de-bernard-t...
- 10729287 1y ago
  Fun fact, what is today perceived as a historical and intense rivalry between the Paris and Marseille football teams was actually completely made up and orchestrated by Bernard Tapie and the TV channel Canal+ (then recent owner of PSG) in the 1990s.
  - lordnacho 1y ago
    Great video about the lack of local rivalries in French football: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DadkD_06mM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DadkD_06mM
franze 1y ago
Fyi: Austria had a "tough on crime" minister of the interior who ended up in a jail he ceremoniously inaugurated himself.
- croisillon 1y ago
  about six months instead of * check notes * 4 years
- 12_throw_away 1y ago
  Sounds about right tbh - any politician claiming they want to be "tough on crime" invariably (and ironically) means "I'm going to break some laws that apply to me in order to punish some out-group".
- cenamus 1y ago
  Which one was that?
- ginko 1y ago
  The only Austrian minister that went to jail I can think of was Grasser and he was minister of finance. edit: Ah right, there was Strasser. The Schüssel government sure was great.
oulipo2 1y ago
We, French, are very proud of having put an ex-President in jail, for his crimes of having tried to whitewash a dictator responsible for the death of more French people than the Bataclan terror attacks in exchange for money. This person humiliated our country, and we're glad our justice put him behind bars
- wiether 1y ago
  I'm a "half empty" kind of person and seeing how much support he's still getting is quite sad to see. Karine Le Marchand expressing her support is one thing, identifiyng herself as being part of the same caste as Sarkozy, but seeing the same support from regular folks, who have most certainly been screwed over by the ex-President...
  - Beretta_Vexee 1y ago
    It's amazing how all these conservatives who want to be tough on crime change their minds when it comes to one of their friends.
    - pyrale 1y ago
      I'm re-reading The Truth, from Terry Pratchett, and Lord de Worde's definition of criminal is really fitting here: to him, a criminal is a poor person, belonging to the criminal social class. For the elite, justice is to be served if they need it, and when they order it.
  - oulipo2 1y ago
    The "support" seems to be mainly "engineered" by billionaire-owned media
- replwoacause 1y ago
  As an American, I envy you and your country. What millions of us wouldn’t give for the wheels of justice to catch up over here.
tasuki 1y ago
> Sarkozy said he would take two books with him into prison, a life of Jesus by Jean-Christian Petitfils and the Count of Monte Cristo The Count of Monte Cristo is a good choice.
- byroot 1y ago
  It has nothing to do with literature. It’s just a not so subtle way to claim he’s innocent and that he’ll get his revenge.
  - sillyfluke 1y ago
    Amusingly, it's also inspired by the life of the writer's mixed race black father, who in the 1700s became the highest ranking black general in the west not to be surpassed until the American generals in the 1990s and supposedly attracted the jealousy of Napolean (See "The Black Count"). So there's something there for everyone I guess.
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    - ecshafer 1y ago
      This is one of those I should have known better moments. But I have never put together Alexander Dumas the author being related (son of) to Thomas-Alexander Dumas of Haiti/France despite them both being French, mix-race and overlapping in time. Learning about Thomas-Alexander Dumas in context of Haiti and the French revolution vs the context of reading Alexander Dumas I just never thought of it.
  - whobre 1y ago
    The book has a pretty good description of how to escape prison…
    - 1y ago
ErroneousBosh 1y ago
"We put all our politicians in jail as soon as they're elected." "Why?" "It saves time."
- spwa4 1y ago
  That seems to be Israel's approach for the last few decades. Well, they try, with some success even.
  - ErroneousBosh 1y ago
    I really wouldn't want to get involved in anything that could be compared to what Israel do.
jokoon 1y ago
Quite a shame it took this long
- Beretta_Vexee 1y ago
  Our politicians are suffocating and under funding the French justice system, so that it takes so long and the majority of white-collar and non-violent crimes slip under the radar. This is by design and not an unintended consequence. Justice in this country is only served thanks to the incredible determination of the members of the judiciary.
yard2010 1y ago
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- pavlov 1y ago
  In the Nordic countries, that's just a regular jail cell. Except the fridge I guess.
  - Razengan 1y ago
    They're cold enough there
    - dotancohen 1y ago
      I spent a week in a hostel in Norway (Trumso). The room has a refrigerator, but no freezer. The food to be kept frozen was put on the shelf hanging outside the window.
      - type0 1y ago
        Doesn't work if it's not winter. Also you should keep your food in a fabric bag that hungry magpies and seagulls can't open.
        philipwhiuk 1y ago
        Huh, it's not nearly as cold as I thought it would be in Tromsø.
        dotancohen 1y ago
        Thanks. We didn't actually use the shelf. I'll take the time to recommend everybody go see the Northern Lights one time in their lives. Not only are they beautiful, the brain has a hard time contemplating something so huge and far away that the eyes discern no parallax. But unlike the moon and stars, they move!
- anjel 1y ago
randomtoast 1y ago
By the way, this is not possible in the U.S and in many other countries. When someone is convicted of a crime, they don’t usually start serving a prison sentence until the case is final. If they appeal, the sentence is automatically paused or can be stayed by the court. In practice, this means you don’t go to prison (unless you are already in preventive detention because of flight risk or danger) while your case is still being fought in higher courts.
- timpera 1y ago
  It needs to be noted that it's not the norm in France either. The court chose to send him to jail until the appeal because of the "exceptional gravity" of his behavior, which came to a surprise for many. He will most likely ask the courts to review the execution of the sentence until the appeal in the next few days.
  - cccbbbaaa 1y ago
    > It needs to be noted that it's not the norm in France either. 85% of prison sentences of more than two years also carry “exécution provisoire”: https://www.justice.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/migrations/portail/art_pix/RSJ2021_Chapitre12.pdf https://www.justice.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/migrations/p... (page 2). Sentences of more than 2 years are not the norm though. > He will most likely ask the courts to review the execution of the sentence until the appeal in the next few days. He already did.
  - darkamaul 1y ago
    Sarkozy was convicted for "association de malfaiteurs" (criminal conspiracy) related to allowing associates to meet with Libyan officials to discuss covert campaign financing for his 2007 election. Remarkably, while convicted of conspiracy, he was acquitted on the actual underlying charges. The tribunal acknowledged no direct evidence linked Sarkozy to receiving or handling the funds and that the disputed flows weren't established as having served his campaign. Yet the conviction rested on a "bundle of concordant indices" rather than established facts. The irony: Sarkozy spent his political career advocating for tougher criminal laws and harsher punishments. The "association de malfaiteurs" law was reintroduced in 1986, and he championed its application throughout his tenure. Now he's imprisoned under the very provision he helped expand—convicted on evidence of intent to prepare a crime rather than proof of an actual crime, exactly the kind of broad prosecutorial power he once argued was necessary. He got bitten by his own sword.
silcoon 1y ago
What about Silvio Berlusconi? The Italian “premier”, multiple times prime minister, founder of multiple parties and leader of the right. Owner of Milan FC and involved in constructing large parts of Milan city. Multiple people in his parties were condemned for corruption, the co-founder of his main party “Forza Italia” called Marcello Dell’Utri went in jail for concussion with Mafia. Berlusconi had a mafia boss - Vittorio Mangano - living permanently in his mansion near Milan. Owner of large construction companies, movie companies, a large bank, publishing companies, multiple newspapers, a lot of investments and three of the main TVs in Italy, and never went in jail a single day. He was able to create laws ad personam, like that the tree most important political positions in the country got immunity from law persecution, and he also was able to shorten the limitation period for crimes, in order to avoid charges. He got sentenced or prosecuted for: fiscal fraud for his Mediaset TVs, underage prostitution, prostitution racket (some of the girls were appearing in TVs and got elected as politicians to get $$$ government pensions), mafia murders ‘92/93 (where Falcone e Borsellino died, the two judges that brought to international attention the danger of Italian Mafia), multiple accounting frauds, criminal appropriations, and corruption. He had few personal lawyers which the main one of them, Niccolò Ghedini, got elected in parliament. When I read about Sarkozy or Trump, I think they’re just bad clones of Berlusconi. They read his manual. Congratulations to France to take politics and corruption more seriously then Italians. P.S. Berlusconi was best friend with Putin and Gheddafi.
liendolucas 1y ago
Why when a high profile politic is sentenced it goes to a 5 star suite while the rest of mortals are thrown to a hole? It seems that when you cross a certain invisible threshold "justice" applies just a bit differently. Same in Argentina with corrupt and ex-robber Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner.
- msh 1y ago
  Does he have better conditions than any other French persons convicted of a similar crime?
  - liendolucas 1y ago
    I don't know, but what I do know that "jail" has a very different meaning for me. In Argentina the lives of people of an entire country have been ruined because of the last 20 years of robbery from the state arcs. Yet every disgusting politician is out there or has served a laughable sentence. And what do you get in turn after ripping off a country? A home prision benefit.
  - sebstefan 1y ago
    The cell is the same but he is alone in it, most convicts have a cellmate
    - msh 1y ago
      Not the ones in solitary confinement like him I assume?
      - sebstefan 1y ago
        His SHU cell has everything the rest of the cells have ; a TV for €14/month, a hot plate, a landline, a shower, a fridge, and on a fixed schedule access to the library and the gym https://www.tf1info.fr/justice-faits-divers/nicolas-sarkozy-en-prison-quelles-seront-ses-conditions-de-detention-a-la-sante-isolement-visites-parloirs-telephone-2401494.html https://www.tf1info.fr/justice-faits-divers/nicolas-sarkozy-...
greatgib 1y ago
Something really scary in France right now is that you can see really clearly how most mainstream media are used for propaganda. Since a few days, there is an abundance of cover and articles in most major newspaper here with propaganda and repeated lies supporting him. It's hard to imagine but non stop. You have everyday interviews of his family saying that it is an injustice, that he did nothing, that the judgement was rigged, that he was a great men that served France and so should not be treated like everyone else. Article about how sad the poor family is. Number of articles repeating friends of him verbatim s that the judgement was fake. Almost none speaking about the facts, the grounds for his sentence, the big number of other trials against him that are running. And also the other definitive convictions he got. Like for attempting to bribe a head prosecutor to get insider info about his case. Using a prepaid line opened with a fake name... But what you see in the end is that 90% of medias in France belongs to a few wealthy families that are friends with him.
- oulipo2 1y ago
  Exactly. Meanwhile 75% of French people agree that he should go to jail. This is nuts
  - wiz21c 1y ago
    And then France will get Bardella... It's very very close now. And thanks to Trump we are now arming Europe. It doesn't go in the right direction.
    - croisillon 1y ago
      that's the problem with first-pass-the-vote: 75% against him and scattered over 10 candidates, 25% for him will help him reach the second round
- TacticalCoder 1y ago
  That's not the issue. The issue is that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of french politicians who should be in jail. I don't disagree with him going to jail: but it's one heck of a corrupt country where they all have their hands in the cookie jar. Most french politicians who served at the EU, for example, have friends and family as "employees" on their payroll (well, on the EU citizens' payroll). Same at non-EU level: it's called "emplois fictifs" in french ("fictional jobs"). Soooo many stories about politicians at so many local, regional, national and supra-national levels engaging in "emplois fictifs". So many mayors in France have dirty money on their hands. Where for example they block construction permits then, once joyfully greased with cash, allow the construction permits. But Sarkozy was right-wing and the EU, and France in particular, is ultra left-wing. So it's good to put a right-wing president in jail. Once again: I've got nothing against him going to jail. But we're talking about a country were judges are openly leftists. They're not impartial. It's all rotten and disgusting. And why do you think all the leftist french mainstream media root for right-wing Sarkozy? Because these media are at the hand of corrupt politicians who think a politician going to jail is a dangerous precedent. They're nearly all corrupt, so they're shitting their pants to see that even a president is sent to jail. But yup: one politician in jail. Great. Only 9999 more to go. And corrupt judges.
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tsoukase 1y ago
A former Prime Minister of a first world country in jail is insane. He must have made a crime without the help of others because in political scandals usually a whole gang of public people is liable. Then you have to convict the monkey with the bananas and the whole tree. If we follow the French justice, in my country (Greece) about 10% of people including almost all the politicians of the last decades should be in jail.
- Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe 1y ago
  Well the crime was about using syria's then dictator muhammar kadafi's blood money for his first presidential campaign. So there is a very strong incentive to keep this as private as possible. And in effect he's not the only one to be trialed and judged.
  - pif 1y ago
    s/Syria/Libya/
    - philipwhiuk 1y ago
      which really makes me skeptical of the whole thing
      - Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe 1y ago
        I apologize for my mistake it is lybia in fact and not syria. If you want to read about it in english, mediapart (one of the leading investigative journal on that case) has translated many of its articles : https://www.mediapart.fr/journal/france/dossier/sarkozy-gaddafi-funding-affair https://www.mediapart.fr/journal/france/dossier/sarkozy-gadd... I believe there is a complete recap somewhere but sadly can't find it
    - Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe 1y ago
      Oups I'm so sorry you're right.
  - 1y ago
baggachipz 1y ago
Imagine, a land full of mother sauces, divine cuisine and pastries, and a corrupt and sentenced felon actually facing (eventual) justice for the crimes they committed. This sounds like a magical land (all is relative).
- thelastgallon 1y ago
  Even the food in prison should be good? Croissants, etc made by french chefs? There might be another french revolution if they import cooks from america, russia or north korea just for people in prison.
  - VHRanger 1y ago
    American food would be cruel & unusual punishment
    - thelastgallon 1y ago
      The Eighth Amendment (Amendment VIII) to the United States Constitution protects against imposing excessive bail, excessive fines, or cruel and unusual punishments. This amendment was adopted on December 15, 1791, along with the rest of the United States Bill of Rights. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Eighth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Eighth_Amendment_...
- nradov 1y ago
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  - School-Cotton 1y ago
    The fact that vastly more French people speak English than Americans speak French probably has a lot to do with it.
  - lowkj 1y ago
    I moved from the USA to France and your statement surprised me. Looking around for some data, I'm seeing around 4,600 French nationals who obtained U.S. permanent resident status compared to 13,000 issued to U.S. citizens by France. So about 3x more US -> France and rising. https://schengenvisainfo.com/news/number-of-americans-moving-to-france-up-by-5/?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://schengenvisainfo.com/news/number-of-americans-moving... https://www.tresor.economie.gouv.fr/Articles/8c273940-72b7-4995-bd87-75dff642852a/files/c429b6d2-ed84-49fa-9f57-04d4d03a18e0?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://www.tresor.economie.gouv.fr/Articles/8c273940-72b7-4...
seydor 1y ago
Gone are the days of the guillotine ...
- le-mark 1y ago
  She is thirsty my friends.
ytNumbers 1y ago
There is no excuse for corruption. However, everyone in all countries should ask themselves whether or not most of the representatives in their congress/parliament would, if investigated, be found guilty of the same sort of corruption. Power corrupts.
- baby 1y ago
  I hope Trump goes to Prison at some point
- brettermeier 1y ago
  Yes, and you should lock them all up.
- varjag 1y ago
  Relatively few politicians get their campaigns funded by hostile states, although it increasingly becomes more common. And while corruption is multifaceted this is clearly one of the graver violations. Let's hope all of them end up prosecuted. People were shot for less.
- khamidou 1y ago
  If you read up on this story, you'd find out it's not run off the mill corruption. Sarkozy actually conspired with a foreign state – in particular with someone who directed a terror attack that killed 50 french citizens (!) – to fund his campaign.
  - agumonkey 1y ago
    This among a list of shady things like unauthorized spying. The man is not on his first rodeo
- lugu 1y ago
  Some are corrupted by power, other by the desire to get into power. He belongs to the second group.
- deleted 1y ago
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josefritzishere 1y ago
Broadly speaking, it's a good sign of a healthy democracy that wealthy, powerful people can sometimes still go to prison.
Demiurge 1y ago
This is slightly off-topic, but is it "jail" or "prison"? I see this switch all the time, and French does not make a difference. But, in English, and many other languages, jail is more specific than prison, and is usually for short term or pre-sentencing holding. If someone is sentenced, it's usually a different facility called "prison". Is BBC making a mistake, or are they actually saying Sarkozy will be held in in an actual jail?
- xen0 1y ago
  At least in British English usage, there is no distinction between Jail, Gaol, and Prison other than at least one of these is a dated word. I believe only the US has a strong distinction between Prison and Jail.
- NelsonMinar 1y ago
  The relevant word here is "Prison", the French noun. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Sant%C3%A9_Prison https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Sant%C3%A9_Prison The BBC article is using the two terms interchangably. Very few readers are concerned about the distinction you are making.
- shepherdjerred 1y ago
  this is how I remember it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq2ICyCSSpM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq2ICyCSSpM for those who don't watch videos: you go to jail if a cop doesn't like you. you can only go to prison if you're poor.
mandeepj 1y ago
South korea and Brazil have already punished their criminal ex-prime ministers and ex-presidents. And, now France. It's high time the suit is followed here in US as well. The next right step at this point is to throw the clown behind the bars!! Serve the Justice!!!
petre 1y ago
Good. He took money from Gaddafi to finance his campaign and then aided killing him, throwing the country into a decade long civil war. How much more morally corrupt can one get? I hope LePen goes to jail as well although it would be harder for the prosecutors to follow the money and convict her.
23david 1y ago
Interesting story but why is this on HN?
insane_dreamer 1y ago
Reassuring that there are still democracies where presidents who commit crimes go to jail instead of being allowed to continue committing crimes and pardoning other people who commit crimes.
mk89 1y ago
This is one of the greatest news I have heard of in the last 20 years or so. More of that, please. Politicians responsible for starting a war, bombing a country, causing a lot of our current issues (e.g., with illegal migration flows) for purely personal interests and nothing more than that should be in jail. He will not, of course, spend more than 3-4 weeks there, but who cares. Better than noting. Also, the French people deserve better than this joke of a president.
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groos 1y ago
Would he have gone to jail if the money had come from Zionists? Because that's how campaign finance currently works in the US.
replwoacause 1y ago
Now do Trump.

406 points by begueradj 1y ago

rapsey 1y ago

So he used money from Libya to get elected and then later he bombed them?

adev_ 1y ago
In short, yes. Additionally budget for political campaigns are strictly regulated in France. And getting bribes from foreign dictator is, of course, not allowed. The reason he did not get condemned also for that is that the judge could not proove the usage of the money.
- timeon 1y ago
  > And getting bribes from foreign dictator is, of course, not allowed. Couldn't he setup some crypto fund instead? Or investment in ballroom? Or simply just receive present, let say plane, instead of money? Would that help him in this case?
  - vkou 1y ago
    In a country with a working judiciary, unlikely. In a banana republic, the optics don't really matter in these kinds of situations.
  - adev_ 1y ago
    > Couldn't he setup some crypto fund instead? Or investment in ballroom? Or simply just receive present, let say plane, instead of money? Would that help him in this case? An other French politician, Francois Fillon, tried that with bribes as gift including some luxury Suits. In addition of some public money redirection to his own family. And it did not play well for him either. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fillon_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fillon_affair Ironically, he was Sarkozy's Prime Minster. The party that they both come from (The republicans, previously UMP, previously RPR) has a long history of financial abuses and associated judgements. The only "new" thing here is that it explicitly condemned a previous President.
moralestapia 1y ago
I'll have to read more into this, but it says he just "conspired" to do it, whatever that means. The solitary confinement part is quite harsh, I've never understood how that is supposed to rehabilitate someone. In France there's early release, parole, etc. so real time he spends behind bars might be as low as two years. Edit: The WP article is actually a very interesting read, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_financing_in_the_2007_French_presidential_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_financing_in_the_2007_F...
- seszett 1y ago
  > The solitary confinement part is quite harsh, I've never understood how that is supposed to rehabilitate someone. In this case it's for his own wellbeing, because it's probably difficult for a former president to go along well with the rest of the prison population. I also read a statement that it would help prevent other inmates taking and publicly sharing pictures of him (since some inmates do manage to have phones even if they are forbidden). Prison in general is one of the worst ways to rehabilitate someone though, I do agree with you.
  - kergonath 1y ago
    > it's probably difficult for a former president to go along well with the rest of the prison population Particularly for him who was very keen to be seen as tough on crime to get votes from the far right.
- byroot 1y ago
  > I'll have to read more into this, but it says he just "conspired" to do it, whatever that means. The court couldn't prove beyond reasonable doubt that the money was used for his campaign. However they were able to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he knew what his subordinates were planing and that he did nothing to stop it. In France conspiring to commit a crime is punishable, regardless of whether the crime actually happened or not. That's a law that has been crafted by Sarkozy's own party. > The solitary confinement part is quite harsh The solitary part isn't a punishment, but to ensure his safety. They even went as far as to allocated another cell for the two full time police officers of his security detail... Also the upside is that he has a cell for himself, something a lot of prisoners would love to have given the over prison occupancy in France is 137% (and up to 200% in some specific prisons).
pfannkuchen 1y ago
I think he was trying to chase the Libyans into France.
csomar 1y ago
More like bombed Gaddafi and guaranteed his downfall than bombed "Libya". It is probably a bit more complicated than that, though. The U.S./NATO were also involved and there is a lot of money there. He probably thought he could get away with it. But make no mistake this is a political play and everyone involved is as dirty as the Paris Seine.
- _ache_ 1y ago
  Hey! The Seine isn't dirty as this guy. Maybe the Seine was heavily covered as dirty by the media but remember that you shouldn't swim in the San Francisco bay either. Wait for the next JO to hear about water quality problem with the LA beach area under rain.
  - SiempreViernes 1y ago
    Yeah, only a few contestants in the Olympics got sick after the triathlon! ;)

dmead 1y ago

The French understand how to run a society.

rapsey 1y ago
Politically deadlocked, failing economy, with the judiciary doing political dirty work?
- belter 1y ago
  Government shutdown...convicted rapist as President.. ;-)
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- forgotoldacc 1y ago
  Seventh biggest economy with the 21st biggest population seems like an economy that punches above its weight. Plus a low GINI coefficient suggests there's less wealth divide than a lot of other places. Seems like they have a mature economy and don't need to grow forever like a tumor. Once you reach a certain point, optimizing for quality of life seems nice, and the French do seem to aim for that.
  - alex_duf 1y ago
    I think unfortunately both can be true at the same time, politically deadlock AND punching above its weight. There's a lot to fix in France, and a lot of things going well.
  - fraboniface 1y ago
    While "quality of life first" remains true in spirit for a lot of French people, this hasn't been supported politically since 2000 (when legal weekly work time was reduced to 35 hours - many people do more but they are compensated for it). And even that law was an exception. In truth, France has taken the neoliberal turn of the 80s almost as much as other countries, and growth and competitiveness has been the only mantra of governments for 40 years. We're mostly protected by laws passed before the 50s.

littlestymaar 1y ago

For context, it's not even the first time he's condemned, but this time the crime was sever enough so he couldn't avoid prison. He delayed the case enough (almost 13 years) so that he's now more than 70 though and I doubt he stays to long in prison because of his age. But it's nice to see that he couldn't run away from justice forever and is finally in jail.

mytailorisrich 1y ago
He should not be in jail now. His case is going to appeal but the court decided to still jail him now "provisionally" (exécution provisoire), which sounds like a political play. Coincidentally, the same is happening to Le Pen with respect to the decision to ban her from elections... As for "delaying" the case, this is just the French court system for you. Everything takes years and years.
- aaplok 1y ago
  It is not political play. This is FUD spread by his political supporters. The "exécution provisoire" is a measure that was introduced when his own party was in power, to make sure that terrorists were jailed immediately. He happened to be condemned for breaching the same law (association de malfaiteurs) that is used against terrorists. I once read a comment by a lawyer that he was amazed by the number of politicians who ended up being caught by laws they had voted for. This is what happened here. In fact when he was president he implemented another law, on minimum mandatory sanctions for repeated offenders (peines plancher) which was repelled by the subsequent administration. He would have been caught by that too otherwise.
  - mytailorisrich 1y ago
    Political aspects of the justice system are never acknowledged for obvious reasons but it does not mean they don't exist. I cannot be sure of what is happening (hence "seems") but neither can you, especially regarding decisions that are discretionary. At least here there is a guilty verdict even if not final. In France people can be jailed for years without a trial...

boltzmann-brain 1y ago

oh I wish the American people were this brave

leptons 1y ago
Half of them are, half of them are not.
- pbkompasz 1y ago
  more like third of them are, third of them are not and a third doesn't care
  - leptons 1y ago
    I can agree with that. I sometimes forget that quite a lot of voting-age people just don't vote.
_ache_ 1y ago
France population isn't very better, I can assure you, it's not about been brave. We just still have a working judiciary system. But for how long? It barely correctly financed and his independence his attacked every days in the oligarchy controlled medias. I hope you fix your judiciary system one day.
- throw101010 1y ago
  Sarkozy himself tried to reform it and remove a key position in that system the "juge d'instruction" who conducts investigations indepedantly of the executive power in complex cases (like his many cases). It makes the procedures much more efficient and less prone to influence from the government. Fortunately he failed to do it when he was in power, and this is in my opinion a big factor in his current demise.
falcor84 1y ago
Reading up about Israeli politics, it seems that this might be a "be careful what you wish for" situation. They had previously put in prison both a prime minister and a president, and the disastrous governance there over the last decade and a half appears to be in large motivated by Netanyahu's almost certain knowledge that he'll go to prison if and when he loses his grip on the reins. The documentary The Bibi Files was a particularly interesting examination of the allegations against him and his almost shrugging response to them [0]. And going back to America, a week ago Trump asked the Israeli president to preemptively pardon Netanyahu during his speech at their parliament [1], which I find to be concerning on all possible levels. [0] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt33338697/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt33338697/ [1] https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/trump-urges-israels-president-pardon-netanyahu-2025-10-13/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/trump-urges-israel...

wiether 1y ago

Et la santé !

_ache_ 1y ago
French joke. He is jailed in a jail nicknamed "La Santé", which is also the the french cheers sentence. "À la votre *et la santé". Will be the running gag of this christmas and new year.
- Beretta_Vexee 1y ago
  It's not a nickname. It's simply because the prison is located on Rue de la Santé (Health Street). Rue de la Santé was named that way because there was a hospital there from the 17th to the 19th century.
  - _ache_ 1y ago
    I hesitated to call it a nickname, as the name is "Paris-La Santé". But got covered by Wikipédia "https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_de_la_Sant%C3%A9 https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_de_la_Sant%C3%A9", so I did called it a nickname too. I'm pretty sure it can be called a "Métonymie de lieu" but I just didn't want to insist about that, it feels a little pedantic.
    - wiether 1y ago
      > it feels a little pedantic Typical French conversation then!
      - Beretta_Vexee 1y ago
        Oh no, we hold back when we're here. For example, I didn't mention the possibility that it might simply be an ellipsis. And no one wants to talk about apocope.

qq66 1y ago

So is this a criminal president receiving justice, or a politically motivated prosecution?

looobay 1y ago
He received money from Libya for his presidential campaign [0], he's just a criminal ex-president... [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_financing_in_the_2007_French_presidential_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_financing_in_the_2007_F...
- catwell 1y ago
  It's way more complicated than this. First, this is mostly about things that happened before his election. The tribunal ruled he did not personally benefit, and he did not directly solicit money to finance his campaign either. However, some of his closest allies (who would become his ministers later) did the latter. The tribunal could not find any direct proof he was involved but ruled there were enough "converging indications" that he knew and did nothing to stop it.
  - _ache_ 1y ago
    To be fair, the probability that the short explanation "He received money from Libya for his presidential campaign" is actually the truth is very high. There is no formal proofs, but as you say, (the judges deliberated that) there is enough "converging indications" to support the idea that the short explanation is true.
    - julienfr112 1y ago
      If the justice system doesn’t know exactly why it’s putting Sarkozy in prison, he does...
    - MaxL93 1y ago
      I'm sure the court could have gotten him on other charges, but they went with the absolutely 100% safe one rather than the other 99% safe ones. Sarkozy and all of his billionaire media allies are already trying their hardest to undermine the credibility of the justice system at every turn with extremely dangerous rhetoric; I dread to imagine what this would have been like had they gone with ever-so-slightly-less-safe charges

jakub_g 1y ago

In some ways, this reminds me of Bernard Tapie, called "a man with 1001 lives". It's a really interesting story from 1980s/90s of a self-made-businessman, turned politician, getting to the very top, doing deals with African leaders, becoming minister, having his football club (Marseille) win the European Champions League; which however was a turning point that started his downfall, as they bought a domestic game just before, to avoid injuries before the big final. A very interesting documentary [2] explains all this. There's also Netflix series that I didn't watch though. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Tapie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Tapie [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_football_bribery_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_football_bribery_scanda... [2] https://lcp.fr/programmes/les-mille-et-une-vies-de-bernard-tapie-83197 https://lcp.fr/programmes/les-mille-et-une-vies-de-bernard-t...

10729287 1y ago
Fun fact, what is today perceived as a historical and intense rivalry between the Paris and Marseille football teams was actually completely made up and orchestrated by Bernard Tapie and the TV channel Canal+ (then recent owner of PSG) in the 1990s.
- lordnacho 1y ago
  Great video about the lack of local rivalries in French football: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DadkD_06mM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DadkD_06mM

franze 1y ago

Fyi: Austria had a "tough on crime" minister of the interior who ended up in a jail he ceremoniously inaugurated himself.

croisillon 1y ago
about six months instead of * check notes * 4 years
12_throw_away 1y ago
Sounds about right tbh - any politician claiming they want to be "tough on crime" invariably (and ironically) means "I'm going to break some laws that apply to me in order to punish some out-group".
cenamus 1y ago
Which one was that?
ginko 1y ago
The only Austrian minister that went to jail I can think of was Grasser and he was minister of finance. edit: Ah right, there was Strasser. The Schüssel government sure was great.

oulipo2 1y ago

We, French, are very proud of having put an ex-President in jail, for his crimes of having tried to whitewash a dictator responsible for the death of more French people than the Bataclan terror attacks in exchange for money. This person humiliated our country, and we're glad our justice put him behind bars

wiether 1y ago
I'm a "half empty" kind of person and seeing how much support he's still getting is quite sad to see. Karine Le Marchand expressing her support is one thing, identifiyng herself as being part of the same caste as Sarkozy, but seeing the same support from regular folks, who have most certainly been screwed over by the ex-President...
- Beretta_Vexee 1y ago
  It's amazing how all these conservatives who want to be tough on crime change their minds when it comes to one of their friends.
  - pyrale 1y ago
    I'm re-reading The Truth, from Terry Pratchett, and Lord de Worde's definition of criminal is really fitting here: to him, a criminal is a poor person, belonging to the criminal social class. For the elite, justice is to be served if they need it, and when they order it.
- oulipo2 1y ago
  The "support" seems to be mainly "engineered" by billionaire-owned media
replwoacause 1y ago
As an American, I envy you and your country. What millions of us wouldn’t give for the wheels of justice to catch up over here.

tasuki 1y ago

> Sarkozy said he would take two books with him into prison, a life of Jesus by Jean-Christian Petitfils and the Count of Monte Cristo The Count of Monte Cristo is a good choice.

byroot 1y ago
It has nothing to do with literature. It’s just a not so subtle way to claim he’s innocent and that he’ll get his revenge.
- sillyfluke 1y ago
  Amusingly, it's also inspired by the life of the writer's mixed race black father, who in the 1700s became the highest ranking black general in the west not to be surpassed until the American generals in the 1990s and supposedly attracted the jealousy of Napolean (See "The Black Count"). So there's something there for everyone I guess.
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  - ecshafer 1y ago
    This is one of those I should have known better moments. But I have never put together Alexander Dumas the author being related (son of) to Thomas-Alexander Dumas of Haiti/France despite them both being French, mix-race and overlapping in time. Learning about Thomas-Alexander Dumas in context of Haiti and the French revolution vs the context of reading Alexander Dumas I just never thought of it.
- whobre 1y ago
  The book has a pretty good description of how to escape prison…
  - 1y ago

ErroneousBosh 1y ago

"We put all our politicians in jail as soon as they're elected." "Why?" "It saves time."

spwa4 1y ago
That seems to be Israel's approach for the last few decades. Well, they try, with some success even.
- ErroneousBosh 1y ago
  I really wouldn't want to get involved in anything that could be compared to what Israel do.

jokoon 1y ago

Quite a shame it took this long

Beretta_Vexee 1y ago
Our politicians are suffocating and under funding the French justice system, so that it takes so long and the majority of white-collar and non-violent crimes slip under the radar. This is by design and not an unintended consequence. Justice in this country is only served thanks to the incredible determination of the members of the judiciary.

yard2010 1y ago

[flagged]

pavlov 1y ago
In the Nordic countries, that's just a regular jail cell. Except the fridge I guess.
- Razengan 1y ago
  They're cold enough there
  - dotancohen 1y ago
    I spent a week in a hostel in Norway (Trumso). The room has a refrigerator, but no freezer. The food to be kept frozen was put on the shelf hanging outside the window.
    - type0 1y ago
      Doesn't work if it's not winter. Also you should keep your food in a fabric bag that hungry magpies and seagulls can't open.
      - philipwhiuk 1y ago
        Huh, it's not nearly as cold as I thought it would be in Tromsø.
      - dotancohen 1y ago
        Thanks. We didn't actually use the shelf. I'll take the time to recommend everybody go see the Northern Lights one time in their lives. Not only are they beautiful, the brain has a hard time contemplating something so huge and far away that the eyes discern no parallax. But unlike the moon and stars, they move!
anjel 1y ago

randomtoast 1y ago

By the way, this is not possible in the U.S and in many other countries. When someone is convicted of a crime, they don’t usually start serving a prison sentence until the case is final. If they appeal, the sentence is automatically paused or can be stayed by the court. In practice, this means you don’t go to prison (unless you are already in preventive detention because of flight risk or danger) while your case is still being fought in higher courts.

timpera 1y ago
It needs to be noted that it's not the norm in France either. The court chose to send him to jail until the appeal because of the "exceptional gravity" of his behavior, which came to a surprise for many. He will most likely ask the courts to review the execution of the sentence until the appeal in the next few days.
- cccbbbaaa 1y ago
  > It needs to be noted that it's not the norm in France either. 85% of prison sentences of more than two years also carry “exécution provisoire”: https://www.justice.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/migrations/portail/art_pix/RSJ2021_Chapitre12.pdf https://www.justice.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/migrations/p... (page 2). Sentences of more than 2 years are not the norm though. > He will most likely ask the courts to review the execution of the sentence until the appeal in the next few days. He already did.
- darkamaul 1y ago
  Sarkozy was convicted for "association de malfaiteurs" (criminal conspiracy) related to allowing associates to meet with Libyan officials to discuss covert campaign financing for his 2007 election. Remarkably, while convicted of conspiracy, he was acquitted on the actual underlying charges. The tribunal acknowledged no direct evidence linked Sarkozy to receiving or handling the funds and that the disputed flows weren't established as having served his campaign. Yet the conviction rested on a "bundle of concordant indices" rather than established facts. The irony: Sarkozy spent his political career advocating for tougher criminal laws and harsher punishments. The "association de malfaiteurs" law was reintroduced in 1986, and he championed its application throughout his tenure. Now he's imprisoned under the very provision he helped expand—convicted on evidence of intent to prepare a crime rather than proof of an actual crime, exactly the kind of broad prosecutorial power he once argued was necessary. He got bitten by his own sword.

silcoon 1y ago

What about Silvio Berlusconi? The Italian “premier”, multiple times prime minister, founder of multiple parties and leader of the right. Owner of Milan FC and involved in constructing large parts of Milan city. Multiple people in his parties were condemned for corruption, the co-founder of his main party “Forza Italia” called Marcello Dell’Utri went in jail for concussion with Mafia. Berlusconi had a mafia boss - Vittorio Mangano - living permanently in his mansion near Milan. Owner of large construction companies, movie companies, a large bank, publishing companies, multiple newspapers, a lot of investments and three of the main TVs in Italy, and never went in jail a single day. He was able to create laws ad personam, like that the tree most important political positions in the country got immunity from law persecution, and he also was able to shorten the limitation period for crimes, in order to avoid charges. He got sentenced or prosecuted for: fiscal fraud for his Mediaset TVs, underage prostitution, prostitution racket (some of the girls were appearing in TVs and got elected as politicians to get $$$ government pensions), mafia murders ‘92/93 (where Falcone e Borsellino died, the two judges that brought to international attention the danger of Italian Mafia), multiple accounting frauds, criminal appropriations, and corruption. He had few personal lawyers which the main one of them, Niccolò Ghedini, got elected in parliament. When I read about Sarkozy or Trump, I think they’re just bad clones of Berlusconi. They read his manual. Congratulations to France to take politics and corruption more seriously then Italians. P.S. Berlusconi was best friend with Putin and Gheddafi.

liendolucas 1y ago

Why when a high profile politic is sentenced it goes to a 5 star suite while the rest of mortals are thrown to a hole? It seems that when you cross a certain invisible threshold "justice" applies just a bit differently. Same in Argentina with corrupt and ex-robber Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner.

msh 1y ago
Does he have better conditions than any other French persons convicted of a similar crime?
- liendolucas 1y ago
  I don't know, but what I do know that "jail" has a very different meaning for me. In Argentina the lives of people of an entire country have been ruined because of the last 20 years of robbery from the state arcs. Yet every disgusting politician is out there or has served a laughable sentence. And what do you get in turn after ripping off a country? A home prision benefit.
- sebstefan 1y ago
  The cell is the same but he is alone in it, most convicts have a cellmate
  - msh 1y ago
    Not the ones in solitary confinement like him I assume?
    - sebstefan 1y ago
      His SHU cell has everything the rest of the cells have ; a TV for €14/month, a hot plate, a landline, a shower, a fridge, and on a fixed schedule access to the library and the gym https://www.tf1info.fr/justice-faits-divers/nicolas-sarkozy-en-prison-quelles-seront-ses-conditions-de-detention-a-la-sante-isolement-visites-parloirs-telephone-2401494.html https://www.tf1info.fr/justice-faits-divers/nicolas-sarkozy-...

greatgib 1y ago

Something really scary in France right now is that you can see really clearly how most mainstream media are used for propaganda. Since a few days, there is an abundance of cover and articles in most major newspaper here with propaganda and repeated lies supporting him. It's hard to imagine but non stop. You have everyday interviews of his family saying that it is an injustice, that he did nothing, that the judgement was rigged, that he was a great men that served France and so should not be treated like everyone else. Article about how sad the poor family is. Number of articles repeating friends of him verbatim s that the judgement was fake. Almost none speaking about the facts, the grounds for his sentence, the big number of other trials against him that are running. And also the other definitive convictions he got. Like for attempting to bribe a head prosecutor to get insider info about his case. Using a prepaid line opened with a fake name... But what you see in the end is that 90% of medias in France belongs to a few wealthy families that are friends with him.

oulipo2 1y ago
Exactly. Meanwhile 75% of French people agree that he should go to jail. This is nuts
- wiz21c 1y ago
  And then France will get Bardella... It's very very close now. And thanks to Trump we are now arming Europe. It doesn't go in the right direction.
  - croisillon 1y ago
    that's the problem with first-pass-the-vote: 75% against him and scattered over 10 candidates, 25% for him will help him reach the second round
TacticalCoder 1y ago
That's not the issue. The issue is that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of french politicians who should be in jail. I don't disagree with him going to jail: but it's one heck of a corrupt country where they all have their hands in the cookie jar. Most french politicians who served at the EU, for example, have friends and family as "employees" on their payroll (well, on the EU citizens' payroll). Same at non-EU level: it's called "emplois fictifs" in french ("fictional jobs"). Soooo many stories about politicians at so many local, regional, national and supra-national levels engaging in "emplois fictifs". So many mayors in France have dirty money on their hands. Where for example they block construction permits then, once joyfully greased with cash, allow the construction permits. But Sarkozy was right-wing and the EU, and France in particular, is ultra left-wing. So it's good to put a right-wing president in jail. Once again: I've got nothing against him going to jail. But we're talking about a country were judges are openly leftists. They're not impartial. It's all rotten and disgusting. And why do you think all the leftist french mainstream media root for right-wing Sarkozy? Because these media are at the hand of corrupt politicians who think a politician going to jail is a dangerous precedent. They're nearly all corrupt, so they're shitting their pants to see that even a president is sent to jail. But yup: one politician in jail. Great. Only 9999 more to go. And corrupt judges.

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tsoukase 1y ago

A former Prime Minister of a first world country in jail is insane. He must have made a crime without the help of others because in political scandals usually a whole gang of public people is liable. Then you have to convict the monkey with the bananas and the whole tree. If we follow the French justice, in my country (Greece) about 10% of people including almost all the politicians of the last decades should be in jail.

Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe 1y ago
Well the crime was about using syria's then dictator muhammar kadafi's blood money for his first presidential campaign. So there is a very strong incentive to keep this as private as possible. And in effect he's not the only one to be trialed and judged.
- pif 1y ago
  s/Syria/Libya/
  - philipwhiuk 1y ago
    which really makes me skeptical of the whole thing
    - Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe 1y ago
      I apologize for my mistake it is lybia in fact and not syria. If you want to read about it in english, mediapart (one of the leading investigative journal on that case) has translated many of its articles : https://www.mediapart.fr/journal/france/dossier/sarkozy-gaddafi-funding-affair https://www.mediapart.fr/journal/france/dossier/sarkozy-gadd... I believe there is a complete recap somewhere but sadly can't find it
  - Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe 1y ago
    Oups I'm so sorry you're right.
- 1y ago

baggachipz 1y ago

Imagine, a land full of mother sauces, divine cuisine and pastries, and a corrupt and sentenced felon actually facing (eventual) justice for the crimes they committed. This sounds like a magical land (all is relative).

thelastgallon 1y ago
Even the food in prison should be good? Croissants, etc made by french chefs? There might be another french revolution if they import cooks from america, russia or north korea just for people in prison.
- VHRanger 1y ago
  American food would be cruel & unusual punishment
  - thelastgallon 1y ago
    The Eighth Amendment (Amendment VIII) to the United States Constitution protects against imposing excessive bail, excessive fines, or cruel and unusual punishments. This amendment was adopted on December 15, 1791, along with the rest of the United States Bill of Rights. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Eighth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Eighth_Amendment_...
nradov 1y ago
[flagged]
- School-Cotton 1y ago
  The fact that vastly more French people speak English than Americans speak French probably has a lot to do with it.
- lowkj 1y ago
  I moved from the USA to France and your statement surprised me. Looking around for some data, I'm seeing around 4,600 French nationals who obtained U.S. permanent resident status compared to 13,000 issued to U.S. citizens by France. So about 3x more US -> France and rising. https://schengenvisainfo.com/news/number-of-americans-moving-to-france-up-by-5/?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://schengenvisainfo.com/news/number-of-americans-moving... https://www.tresor.economie.gouv.fr/Articles/8c273940-72b7-4995-bd87-75dff642852a/files/c429b6d2-ed84-49fa-9f57-04d4d03a18e0?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://www.tresor.economie.gouv.fr/Articles/8c273940-72b7-4...

seydor 1y ago

Gone are the days of the guillotine ...

le-mark 1y ago
She is thirsty my friends.

ytNumbers 1y ago

There is no excuse for corruption. However, everyone in all countries should ask themselves whether or not most of the representatives in their congress/parliament would, if investigated, be found guilty of the same sort of corruption. Power corrupts.

baby 1y ago
I hope Trump goes to Prison at some point
brettermeier 1y ago
Yes, and you should lock them all up.
varjag 1y ago
Relatively few politicians get their campaigns funded by hostile states, although it increasingly becomes more common. And while corruption is multifaceted this is clearly one of the graver violations. Let's hope all of them end up prosecuted. People were shot for less.
khamidou 1y ago
If you read up on this story, you'd find out it's not run off the mill corruption. Sarkozy actually conspired with a foreign state – in particular with someone who directed a terror attack that killed 50 french citizens (!) – to fund his campaign.
- agumonkey 1y ago
  This among a list of shady things like unauthorized spying. The man is not on his first rodeo
lugu 1y ago
Some are corrupted by power, other by the desire to get into power. He belongs to the second group.
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josefritzishere 1y ago

Broadly speaking, it's a good sign of a healthy democracy that wealthy, powerful people can sometimes still go to prison.

Demiurge 1y ago

This is slightly off-topic, but is it "jail" or "prison"? I see this switch all the time, and French does not make a difference. But, in English, and many other languages, jail is more specific than prison, and is usually for short term or pre-sentencing holding. If someone is sentenced, it's usually a different facility called "prison". Is BBC making a mistake, or are they actually saying Sarkozy will be held in in an actual jail?

xen0 1y ago
At least in British English usage, there is no distinction between Jail, Gaol, and Prison other than at least one of these is a dated word. I believe only the US has a strong distinction between Prison and Jail.
NelsonMinar 1y ago
The relevant word here is "Prison", the French noun. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Sant%C3%A9_Prison https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Sant%C3%A9_Prison The BBC article is using the two terms interchangably. Very few readers are concerned about the distinction you are making.
shepherdjerred 1y ago
this is how I remember it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq2ICyCSSpM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq2ICyCSSpM for those who don't watch videos: you go to jail if a cop doesn't like you. you can only go to prison if you're poor.

mandeepj 1y ago

South korea and Brazil have already punished their criminal ex-prime ministers and ex-presidents. And, now France. It's high time the suit is followed here in US as well. The next right step at this point is to throw the clown behind the bars!! Serve the Justice!!!

petre 1y ago

Good. He took money from Gaddafi to finance his campaign and then aided killing him, throwing the country into a decade long civil war. How much more morally corrupt can one get? I hope LePen goes to jail as well although it would be harder for the prosecutors to follow the money and convict her.

23david 1y ago

Interesting story but why is this on HN?

insane_dreamer 1y ago

Reassuring that there are still democracies where presidents who commit crimes go to jail instead of being allowed to continue committing crimes and pardoning other people who commit crimes.

mk89 1y ago

This is one of the greatest news I have heard of in the last 20 years or so. More of that, please. Politicians responsible for starting a war, bombing a country, causing a lot of our current issues (e.g., with illegal migration flows) for purely personal interests and nothing more than that should be in jail. He will not, of course, spend more than 3-4 weeks there, but who cares. Better than noting. Also, the French people deserve better than this joke of a president.

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groos 1y ago

Would he have gone to jail if the money had come from Zionists? Because that's how campaign finance currently works in the US.

replwoacause 1y ago

Now do Trump.