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Amazon Just Happens to Hold Book Sale During Independent Bookstore Day
- neilv 2y ago> (In a statement to Variety, Amazon said, “The overlap was unintentional. [...] So then they are having urgent meetings on "how did we possibly mess up this one, and look like jerks"? Or is someone getting their bonus or promotion for being aggressive?
- mcphage 2y agoYeah, I think it would be more like “Well, we didn’t plan on being a jerk, but we like it!”
- neilv 2y ago"We don't pay attention to the book trade at all for over a decade -- random books just show up in our warehouses, and then money appears in our bank accounts -- so we didn't know about the annual independent booksellers event, and nobody told us."
- morkalork 2y ago"Our elite data scientists built an inscrutable deep neural network to predict and maximize sales opportunities and this is what it told us to do, we will swear complete innocence up and down"
- Supermancho 2y agoAmazon knows about the day. Amazon has third party independent sellers. Amazon decided this was a good opportunity for them and their marketplace. It's not mysterious. It hurts small stores that aren't aligned with Amazon and helps Amazon and small stores aligned with Amazon. Looks like typical Amazon bullying which has already been accepted since nobody is challenging the passthru book marketplace. Amazon used to sell books though, so that matters?
- autobodie 2y agobullying? sounds like standard capitalist market economics to me.
- Supermancho 2y agoYep. Biggest marketshare will have the largest presence, after a certain size. Then they will always eat the little ones. Standard capitalist market economics. Amazon will benefit more by copying the little market innovations. This is an aspect of bullying.
- zeroonetwothree 2y agoAmazon has many employees, it's certainly possible the one that picked the dates of their book sale wasn't aware of this other event. After all, last year they didn't overlap?
- Gathering6678 2y agoThere are definitely people in Amazon who are aware of this, but do not want to get themselves in trouble for talking out loud, because this is not their responsibility. I would have done the same thing.
- saagarjha 2y agoSounds like someone skipped out on exercising Ownership, Bias for Action and Earn Trust.
- SpicyLemonZest 2y agoLarge corporations don't make off-the-cuff comments on viral controversies. If Amazon made a statement to Variety, there were definitely urgent meetings about the issue before that statement went out. One thing they would have concluded pretty quickly, though, is that there's no way for a large corporation to win a public argument with random small bookshops. If it was in fact inadvertent, writing a fact sheet with detailed refutations of every argument that they acted in bad faith would just make them look obnoxious. So Amazon says what they think is best to say, independent bookstores say they don't buy it, and that kinda has to be the end of it.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- daft_pink 2y agoThe problem is you go to an independent bookstore do they have lots of Isaac Asimov? Nope. They just have some very niche books, some virtue signaling books and the top best sellers and lack any sort of deep collection of classics. They also generally lack the important computer science publishers as well like Manning and No Starch Press. Just doesn’t compare when you used to be able to go to Barnes & Noble or Borders and scope out books in person and they would have a strong collection. Online is currently the way to go currently.
- drewcoo 2y agoNever been to Powell's, then? If B&N or Borders had been run like that, I might have liked them. https://www.powells.com https://www.powells.com
- wenc 2y agoWell... Powell's in Portland is the largest independent bookstore in the world. I don't think any bookstore can be compared to them. And even Powell's doesn't have everything (say Tyler Cowen's reading list). I know because I've asked at that little desk on the 1st floor that gives out slips, and they couldn't help me out.
- jjtheblunt 2y agoHow do you know Powell’s is the largest independent bookstore in the world? (It’s great, regardless, having been there myself.)
- wenc 2y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powell%27s_Books https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powell%27s_Books
- mjmsmith 2y agoMcNally Jackson in NYC is also great.
- 2y ago
- nonethewiser 2y agoIt would be nice if local, independent bookstores continued to exist but if the economics dictate they dont then I dont see any reason to hate the company that can still viably sells books. That first sentence is a not a throw-away. I hope local, independent bookstores can continue to exist. And also that brick and mortar book stores continue to exist. But it's not like Amazon is illegally colluding to keep them down. independent bookstores just arent a very profitable businesses.
- iteria 2y agoI wonder about that. I ponder what Amazon's book selling sector (and really the whole part where it sells things) would look like without the money printing machine of AWS. If Amazon didn't have that would they really be able to do what they do and burn the industry down. I don't disagree that bookstores are probably not that profitable, but I do think that Amazon is taking all the oxygen out of the room and not necessarily by being better, but have having a dragon hoard of cash that probably wasn't generated by selling books.
- nolroz 2y agoCan we be a little annoyed if a big company that can leverage publisher deals, massive amounts of analytics and loss leader tactics actively try to cut off business from smaller companies?
- noisy_boy 2y agoWhen a sizable chunk of the people on this site are trying to grow their idea into a big company that can leverage deals, massive amount of analytics and various tactics to cut-off business from the competitors?
- Filligree 2y agoIs that really a large chunk of us? Or is it just a loud chunk?
- 2y ago
- rahimnathwani 2y agoShould Amazon care more about: A) Books? B) Bricks and mortar book retailers? C) Customers/readers?
- gmerc 2y agoSilly. Growth.
- throwawayqqq11 2y agoTrump / Bezos 2028! Make suburbs great again!
- EbNar 2y ago[dead]
- Aurornis 2y agoThe Venn diagram of people who make book purchasing decisions based on “Independent Bookstore Day” and people who choose Amazon because a book is a couple dollars cheaper on a given day has to be two completely separate circles.
- gleenn 2y agoWhile that's probably true the optics are pretty obviously terrible.
- CamperBob2 2y agoWho's more independent than Amazon?!
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Jensson 2y agoAlmost everyone? Amazon has duty to generate profits for massive amounts of shareholders, you can't be very independent when you are public with high market cap, there are just too many literally invested in what you do.
- 47282847 2y agoIf you own a small shop, you are completely dependent on serving your customers. They will not buy the books you like, they will want the ones they like.
- Jensson 2y agoThat is what we mean with indie though, just being dependent on selling to customers and not other things. Amazon is not indie, there are way too many people holding a stake in Amazon.
- rootsudo 2y ago
- beeburrt 2y agoYet y’all will continue to spend your money there
- nixgeek 2y agoYep. Because they offer highly competitive pricing and most items are delivered next day. Both are big factors for me in choosing where to spend dollars and Amazon continues to be the market leader at each.
- donohoe 2y agoSo my Prime membership is coming up soon. Had it at least 10, maybe 15, years - since that start. I got a Costco membership last month. That with Instacart has been working h out very well. I’ll use Amazon here and there but I’m making a big switch and canceling. This was decided before this move, but it makes me feel much better in doing so.
- bamboozled 2y agoMy Prime membership has been really useful for me too, but I constantly read things that bring me on step closer to hitting that cancel button too. Good for you.
- The28thDuck 2y agoWhat are you doing with the membership that is making it so sticky to not move elsewhere?
- fc417fc802 2y agoBuying things online? Have you tried purchasing from anywhere else? The level of convenience is night and day.
- philwelch 2y agoB&H is good for what they carry, and has two day shipping.
- vunderba 2y agoAs someone who avoids purchasing anything from Amazon like the plague - B&H is great alternative. I have a set of "shops" that I rotate through depending on the product type: Electronics - B&H Computers - Microcenter Musical Gear - Sweetwater (even though they got bought out by private equity, my sales agent always tries his best to do right by me)
- 2y ago
- dangus 2y agoWhile I don't shop at Amazon and it's a company I will not support if at all possible, are we really criticizing them for having a sale at the same time as other stores? In what universe is that offensive? It's not like they're having a Pope Francis Funerary Sale, there's nothing offensive or distasteful about this.
- bustling-noose 2y agoIn India Amazon makes little sense. Neither does kindle nor does local book store. The reason for this is that both paper and printing here is cheap along with labor. The original author also licenses for cheap. The publishing houses however take a large cut increasing the cost of the book. People get a hold of the epub and print them and sell them for 1/4th of the price sometimes 1/10th for new and even less for used. The only way I see around this is digital libraries. Let people rent unlimited books (but like Netflix limited at a time) and take a monthly cut.
- AlotOfReading 2y agoThat's essentially Kindle Unlimited. It's one of the key pillars to Amazon's dominance of the publishing sector. As an author, you have to give them 3 months exclusive publication rights to use it. You get paid per pages read, divided among all the other pages a customer reads that period. And if you opt out, your book's distribution on Amazon is affected.
- zeroonetwothree 2y agoWell yes, piracy is always going to be cheaper.
- cheeze 2y agoSimilar to how Prime Video doesn't work in many Latin American countries that have poor internet and sneakernet of hard drive swapping with piracy. Of course piracy is cheaper lmao
- bubblethink 2y agoPaper, printing, and labour have nothing to do with the price of the book. Like college textbooks and drugs, you can sell in India if you mark your prices in accordance with what the market can afford. Otherwise, people will pirate.
- geodel 2y ago> In India Amazon makes little sense. Neither does kindle nor does local book store. Of course! The number of books outside educational material sold in this country with huge population is insignificant. And it is not much surprise since most people can't really afford much. But at least mobile data is really cheap and Whatsapp is free, so people get all the information they care about just from this combo.
- sudofoo 2y agoInteresting that Amazon claims this was "unintentional" - I wonder how many other major retailers mysteriously schedule their biggest sales to overlap with their competitors' special events?
- twunde 2y agoIn new England at least, independent bookstores appear to be thriving. The town I'm in (population ~12K) has at least 5 independent bookstores, all in a town with a great library. That's an unusually high number of bookstores but most of the larger towns have at least one independent bookstore.
- blotfaba 2y agoThat thumbnail is chef's kiss
- guywithahat 2y agoI really don’t think they’re paying attention (or anyone, for that matter). Independent bookstore day isn’t a real holiday and it’s just a marketing fever dream
- dhruvrrp 2y agoI would be really surprised if Amazon didn't have algorithms running that price matched other stores automatically.
- simonebrunozzi 2y agoThe real problem is not this. It is the fact that Amazon can pay almost zero taxes on its online business, while a normal bookstore has to pay taxes like everyone else. That's unfair competition.
- sircastor 2y agoIs this still the case? I thought Amazon started collecting (and paying) sales tax years ago. It was a big deal at the time. Are you referring to something else?
- chii 2y agoProbably referring to amazon's large expenditure for which they use to offset their taxes - but these are legitimate expenditures (such as operating costs of a fleet of airplanes, warehouses, other expenses that could be considered as growth expenses).
- Ekaros 2y agoWhat taxes are meant here? This is always the weird part. I understand circumventing various location specific taxes or getting special deals. But taxes are paid on profit. And just as any company if there is no profits there is no tax. And independent bookstore could use the profit they make to say remodel their store. And inside certain rules that would be legitimate expense. And they would not pay tax on it.
- arrowsmith 2y agoNo, the common criticism of Amazon (and companies like it) is that they cut deals with governments and/or use sneaky international accounting tricks (such as the famous "double Irish Dutch sandwich") to pay very low rates of tax relative to their profit (not revenue). For example, Amazon UK paid zero Corporation Tax in the UK in 2023[0] despite recording £222m in profit. Meanwhile, a smaller UK bookstore has to pay 25% CT on its profits - and it can't afford the army of lawyers and accountants it would take to avoid this. And since Amazon is paying less tax, it can sell its books more cheaply, undercutting the smaller competitors. Some might call this unfair. And I'm inclined to agree. But to be honest, I still buy books off Amazon even though it makes me feel slightly icky. What's a boy to do? [0] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/jun/01/amazon-uk-services-main-division-pay-no-corporation-tax-for-second-year-in-row-tax-credit-government-super-deduction-scheme https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/jun/01/amazon-uk...
- StefanBatory 2y agoI don't get why do people love independent bookstores. For me, locally - those never have anything else than top books on selling lists, selling them for the stock price. I am not a rich person and I can't justify paying ~ 30-40% more just to support them.
- bawolff 2y agoI don't really see what is wrong with this. Of all the questionable things amazon does, having a sale hardly seems like one of them. I dont think amazon is under any moral obligation to respect their competitors marketing moments. Just like how if an independent book seller wanted to have a sale during "prime day", that would be a-okay.
- kotaKat 2y ago[flagged]
- mattigames 2y ago[flagged]
- dang 2y agoCould you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly. It destroys what this site is for, and we've asked you many times in the past not to do this. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
- mattigames 2y agoReducing the incentives of the wealthy to increase their wealth until they become one of the richest people in the world would definitely help reducing a lot of the most exacerbating problems of mankind, I admit it could be inflammatory to suggest as much, but saying it's unsubstantive it's strongly dishonest and plain ignoring game theory logic among all the other factors at play, it may create other problems and I may be disregarding many complexities of the issue but if those cannot even be discussed then I cannot hear about them from smarter people than me.
- dang 2y agoObviously you can't go on about "how much good it would do to kill people like $Name" on HN. This has nothing to do with thoughtful discussion, and we ban accounts that post like this.
- mattigames 2y agoThere is a strong possibility that not long in the future you will come to regret the moderation you are doing this months, in particular that you will regret not looking the other way in many discussions about the alarming destroying powers that are being amazed by this administration and by inequality creators in general.
- black_13 2y ago[dead]
- KnuthIsGod 2y agoI read far too many books and had never heard of "Independent Bookstore Day". The entire article sounds like an excuse for cheap shots against Jeff Bezos and Amazon. I will never buy books from a bookseller or bookshop that thinks it is acceptable to behave like this : "Leah Koch, owner of the Ripped Bodice, in Los Angeles, California, kept it simple: “Fuck Jeff Bezos,” she told Variety." And here in Australia brick and mortar bookshops tend to carry popular rubbish that I would be ashamed to read.
- chii 2y ago[flagged]
- trust_bt_verify 2y ago[flagged]
- Cornbilly 2y ago[flagged]
- tomhow 2y agoWe detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43810225 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43810225 and marked it off topic.
- misstuned 2y agoMeh. I live in a poorer area of the UK. We don't have indie bookstores any closer than a 45-minute drive away, and I'm lucky to have a car. When the kind of people who run "indie bookstores" come and set up in areas like mine instead of staying in their twee suburbs and posh little towns, then I'll start using them and stop using Amazon. Until then, Amazon are the people democratising access to book shopping, delivering fair-priced books to people regardless of where they live, not to mention the convenience of Kindle.
- stevage 2y agoThis entire story is based on the very questionable assumption that Amazon did this deliberately, for which the evidence is slim. I mean, there are tons of reasons to dislike Amazon, without looking for something this thin.
- plsbenice34 2y agoI dont enjoy going in bookstores; i'd rather order online. What's the big deal exactly?
- fud101 2y agoEverytime i scan hackernews and see this on the main page, I have the compulsion to check amazon for a deal. Can we take it down or just admit it's working in Amazon's favor?