17 ms·

Google is winning on every AI front

• throwaway519 2y ago
  It isn't when considering Google's brand has (long) lost trust in how it hanles data. This is especially true with larger companies, F500 type brands, who tend to avoid Google for infra as do governments.
  • rusk 2y ago
    Tell that to the bank I work for that just switched to GCP
  • decimalenough 2y ago
    F500/government are conservative and tend to stick with the vendors they know, which is why Azure has gained so much traction despite being worse than AWS & GCP pretty much across the board. Trust in handling data doesn't really come into this; if anything Google has a very strong reputation for security.
    • js4ever 2y ago
      Tell that to UniSuper: https://www.business-standard.com/world-news/google-cloud-accidentally-deletes-125-billion-australian-pension-fund-124051800606_1.html https://www.business-standard.com/world-news/google-cloud-ac...
      • decimalenough 2y ago
        That was a billing fuckup that had nothing to do with security.
    • re-thc 2y ago
      > F500/government are conservative and tend to stick with the vendors they know, which is why Azure has gained so much traction Outcome is the same, but being "conservative" isn't the real reason. Adding a vendor requires compliance work, process, finance etc that it's just effort. 99% of medium-large companies use Microsoft in some form so Azure can skip all of that to some extent.
      • Jensson 2y ago
        That is what he meant with conservative, ie trying to not do new things because it takes more work to change.
        • re-thc 2y ago
          > ie trying to not do new things because it takes more work to change That's not what the word conservative means, not by the dictionary or even politically. Conservative is the averse to change or to hold traditional values without logic. It's more like a type of fear. Even if the change was easy or have 0 cost, a conservative entity won't do it.
          • mejthemage 2y ago
            Why did you copy the dictionary's definition nearly perfectly, but then add "without logic"? In many cases, the conservative approach to a problem is prudent because the old ways work whereas there is more risk and uncertainty with new. That's not fear, it's wisdom.
    • mdhb 2y ago
      Agreed, they are literal generations ahead of Microsoft in real life.
  • suddenexample 2y ago
    Weird - it's hard to beat widespread online narratives, but as someone who worked at Google there's no company I'd trust more with the "handling" part of my data. There's no doubt that on device is always a more private option, but if you've decided to keep data in the cloud, then Google is probably one of the most secure options you could choose.
    • GeneralMayhem 2y ago
      Same, as another former Googler. I worked on a team that had a relatively large amount of data access, and the amount of protection in place - technical and procedural, preventative and remedial - made me extremely comfortable giving Google basically all of my personal data, knowing that only the bare minimum would ever be looked at, and even then securely and in an anonymized or (usually) aggregated format.
      • adgjlsfhk1 2y ago
        as an outsider, Google is one of the companies I trust the most to prevent unintended leaks of my data, but also one of the ones I trust with my data least.
        • mdhb 2y ago
          I think there’s a bit of a mismatch here between data Google collects on me as a regular user which they can and due process in a million different ways in order to sell shit to you. This extends to AI unless you’re paying for it in which case it’s a very different ballgame. Then there is data that I put into a Google service like drive or cloud which genuinely is probably the single safest consumer option I know of in 2025.
        • Jensson 2y ago
          > but also one of the ones I trust with my data least. What thing have they done with user data that you feel will negatively affect you? As far as I know people just don't like that they have a lot of data, nobody every said they did bad stuff with that data.
  • VirusNewbie 2y ago
    What F500 brands do you think avoid google? Most of the biggest ones are on GCP for ML at least.
• remoquete 2y ago
  I was a loyal Claude user until I decided to try Gemini 2.5. "After all", I thought, "I already use a Pixel phone, so it's integrated with Android. And with Google Drive. And I can get it through my Google One subscription." And now that I'm on it, I don't think I'm going back. Google did it again.
  • firecall 2y ago
    Just to add, I am mainly an iPhone user. But I have a Google Pixel 6a for dev and testing reasons. And Google Gemini for the voice assistant is excellent fun! Just being able to ask it weird and wonderful whilst on a road trip with the kids is worth the cost of a cheap Pixel phone alone!
    • aprilthird2021 2y ago
      Yeah I find myself actually talking to the Gemini assistant like I never have to any other
    • jofzar 2y ago
      I have to seriously disagree on it for the "assistant" part. It is so terrible vs Google assistant. There have been two really bad experiences that I had which boggled my mind. These are transcribed because these were so bad I took a screenshot. Example 1: "set an alarm for 15 minutes" > Gemini sets the alarm for 1:15pm "I want that to be 50 minutes" > "you can change the duration of alarms in the clock app" Example 2: "what the temperature today" > It is currently 5 degrees Celsius - It was October in Sydney, the temperature was 22c with a low of 12c.....
      • morsch 2y ago
        Gemini never sets alarms for me and always points me to the app. Trying to call people is a crap shoot. Presumably there are settings for this somewhere, but there are like fifty sharing settings in four different places and it's impossible to know which apply to the old assistant or Gemini or both or just on the lock screen or to connected devices or... It's a mess. It's even worse, when I tell it to set a timer now, it'll happily tell me it's been set -- but it hasn't (nothing in the app and I waited, to be sure). This is all reproducible and on a Pixel 8.
• antirez 2y ago
  Gemini 2.5 pro is as powerful as everybody says. I still also use Claude Sonnet 3.7 only because the Gemini web UI has issues... (Imagine creating the best AI and then not allowing to attach Python or C files if not renamed .txt) but the way the model is better than anyone else is a "that's another league" experience. They have the biggest search engine and YouTube to leverage the power of the AI they are developing. At this point I believe too that they are likely to win the race.
  • discordance 2y ago
    Instead of renaming files to .txt, you should try Gemini 2.5 pro through OpenRouter with roo, Cline or using Github Copilot. I've been testing GH Copilot [0] and it's been working really well. 0: https://github.blog/changelog/2025-04-11-copilot-chat-users-can-use-the-gemini-2-5-pro-model-in-public-preview/ https://github.blog/changelog/2025-04-11-copilot-chat-users-...
    • antirez 2y ago
      I know perfectly I can use the API with any wrapper. I don't do that for choice, my human+AI development style is in the form of the chat, and since I discovered that many models behave differently (especially Gemini 2.5) based on where you invoke them (I don't know what Google is doing internally, if they change temperature / context size / ...) I stick with using the default way a model is provided to the public by a given provider. Besides, while I write a lot of code with the assistance of AI, my use case is mainly code reviews, design verification / brainstorming, and so forth, not much "write this code for me" (not that I believe there is anything wrong with it, just a matter of preferences -- I do it for things like tests, or to have a template when the coding task is just library calls that are boring to put together: typical use case, "generate the boilerplate to load a JPEG file with libjpeg"). So I keep using the web chat :)
  • BillyTheKing 2y ago
    apart from those weird file attach issues I actually think they've got a much better UI than anthropic as well - much much snappier even with extremely long chats (in addition to much higher limits obviously, totally different league). I love using it
• oezi 2y ago
  Their technical progress is indeed impressive. And their price dumping of 2.5 Pro for free will have moved a lot of technical users. The key question is if the can stop the decline in search or pivot their revenue streams to Gemini.
  • ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 2y ago
    Is there really a decline in web searches or in Google's usage vs competitors? Seems like one of those greatly exaggerated rumors?
    • mattlondon 2y ago
      +1 If anything I think their revenue is still growing by double figures (?) which is insane considering we're decades and billions of users into the business.
    • Bewelge 2y ago
      From a personal website, that's been pretty constantly getting 2k hits from Google each week: Bing 150-200 / week Yandex ~100 / week DDG ~50 / week ChatGPT is now at ~50 hits a week. So from that data it looks like Google still has their comfortable 80%+ market share. But I think it's interesting if you think about the kind of users that use these products. In my mind, the alternative search engines are used mostly by techies and people that care about their privacy (also often techies), but ChatGPT is used by a much broader slice of the population. But maybe I'm projecting because my own search behaviour has changed so dramatically with ChatGPT & Claude having replaced a substantial part of my Google searches.
• thunderbird120 2y ago
  This article doesn't mention TPUs anywhere. I don't think it's obvious for people outside of google's ecosystem just how extraordinarily good the JAX + TPU ecosystem is. Google several structural advantages over other major players, but the largest one is that they roll their own compute solution which is actually very mature and competitive. TPUs are extremely good at both training and inference[1] especially at scale. Google's ability to tailor their mature hardware to exactly what they need gives them a massive leg up on competition. AI companies fundamentally have to answer the question "what can you do that no one else can?". Google's hardware advantage provides an actual answer to that question which can't be erased the next time someone drops a new model onto huggingface. [1]https://blog.google/products/google-cloud/ironwood-tpu-age-of-inference/ https://blog.google/products/google-cloud/ironwood-tpu-age-o...
  • noosphr 2y ago
    And yet google's main structural disadvantage is being google. Modern BERT with the extended context has solved natural language web search. I mean it as no exaggeration that _everything_ google does for search is now obsolete. The only reason why google search isn't dead yet is that it takes a while to index all web paged into a vector database. And yet it wasn't google that released the architecture update, it was hugging face as a summer collaboration between a dozen people. Google's version came out in 2018 and languished for a decade because it would destroy their business model. Google is too risk averse to do anything, but completely doomed if they don't cannibalize their cash cow product. Web search is no longer a crown jewel, but plumbing that answering services, like perplexity, need. I don't see google being able to pull off an iPhone moment where they killed the iPod to win the next 20 years.
    • dash2 2y ago
      They can just plug the google.com web page into their AI. They already do that.
      • fragmede 2y ago
        but because users are used to doing that for free, they can't charge money for that, but if they don't charge money for that, and no one's seeing ads, then where does they money come from?
• glacier5674 2y ago
  If you search for Shockmaster, the AI Overview you get is as follows: > Fred Alex Ottman, a retired American professional wrestler, is known for his WWF personas "Tugboat" and "Typhoon". He also wrestled as "Big Steel Man" and "Big Bubba" before joining the WWF in 1989. Ottman wrestled for the WWF from 1989–1993, where he was a key ally of Hulk Hogan. He later wrestled in World Championship Wrestling as "The Shockmaster", a character known for raising his fist and making a "toot-toot" sound. Which is obviously false. The "toot-toot" was part of his gimmick as Tugboat, while the Shockmaster gimmick is known for its notoriously botched reveal. Point being, Google is losing on the "telling one early 90s wrestling gimmick from another" AI front.
  • krackers 2y ago
    Gemini 2.5 pro is not the same that powers web search (or any of the dozen other Gemini related things).
    • esperent 2y ago
      This post is claiming Google is winning on every AI front. Search summary is a front on which, as far as I can tell, no one is winning. But Google is one of the worst.
      • deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
• ruuda 2y ago
  I'm trying Imagen 3 to add pictures to a presentation in Google Slides, and it's making such basic mistakes that I thought image models weren't making any more by now. I tried for half an hour to prompt it into generating an illustration of a Thinkpad facing with the back to the viewer, so the keyboard is not visible. It couldn't do it, it would always make the keyboard face towards the viewer. Or you ask for an illustration of an animal pointing a finger, and it gives it an additional arm. Meanwhile you ask OpenAI to ghiblify a picture while changing the setting and adding 5 other things, and it absolutely nails it.
  • remoquete 2y ago
    Image generation is extremely good in GPT now. Claude's edge is UX. But I doubt Google won't catch up on both fronts. It has the technology and manpower.
  • boznz 2y ago
    I thought it was just me. A few hours ago Gemini told me "As a language model, I'm not able to assist you with that." This was after generating an image a few minutes earlier. I think the copy/paste buffer pulled in some old source files I had attached a few days earlier (no idea how) because under the "sources and related content" it now showed two files Gemini is obviously calling its brother imagen for offloading the image generation, which is smart I guess if it works
    • Hikikomori 2y ago
      Can Gemini 2.5 pro generate images? It only describes them for me.
      • boznz 2y ago
        I'm using 2.0 Flash and if I ask it, it says yes it can, but it does seem hit and miss as above.
  • vunderba 2y ago
    From my comparison tests focusing on prompt adherence, I would agree 4o edges out Imagen3 as long as speed is not a concern. https://genai-showdown.specr.net https://genai-showdown.specr.net If Imagen3 had the multimodal features that 4o had, it would certainly put it closer to 4o, but being able to instructively change an image (instruct pix2pix style) is incredibly powerful. It's crazy how far GenAI for imagery has come. Just few short years ago, you would have struggled just to get three colored cubes stacked on top of each other in a specific order SHRDLU style. Now? You can prompt for a specific four-pane comic strip and have it reasonably follow your directives.
• torginus 2y ago
  This reads like sports commentary.
  • nailer 2y ago
    It also reads like someone thinking benchmarks make good products.
• glimshe 2y ago
  Gemini Pro 2.5 is fantastic. I'm anti Google and a long time ChatGPT user. I use it for text review and research and it's well ahead the competition. Let's see how long they last giving it for free.
  • Turfie 2y ago
    Why are you anti Google?
    • thomassmith65 2y ago
      Google collects and stores grotesque amounts of data about the public https://takeout.google.com https://takeout.google.com
      • rockwotj 2y ago
        And OpenAI doesn't/wouldn't if they had the chance?
        • thomassmith65 2y ago
          OpenAI absolutely would, but OpenAI can't. Google can spy on everything: via its OS, its browser, its Youtube, its search engine, its ad network, its blog network, its maps app, its translation service, its fonts service, its 8.8.8.8, its Office suite, its captcha, its analytics service, and on and on and on...
• mirekrusin 2y ago
  [flagged]
  • deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  • cheema33 2y ago
    Elon is not in it to counterbalance. But to grab the attention/money/power for himself.
    • mirekrusin 2y ago
      Why going with non-for-profit then? In the early interviews he was saying precisely that - that google has effective monopoly in ai and it will be extremely difficult to reach anything close to capacity they have.
• retskrad 2y ago
  Gemini 2.5 Pro might be one of the best for coding but for creative tasks like writing and sharing ideas, I vastly prefer GPT 4o and GPT 4.5 to an even larger extent.
  • CuriouslyC 2y ago
    Gemini 2.5 Pro's prose isn't quite as tight as GPT4.5s, but being able to have long form writing where your entire manuscript is in the context, along with all your source/background material, and it all gets used _well_ is pretty stellar. That lets Gemini update scenes in a really thoughtful, intelligent way, and frankly it's a better beta reader than ~85% of the people I've hired on Fiverr.
  • int_19h 2y ago
    For creative writing, Claude runs circles around both IMO.
• Lukman 2y ago
  In my experience Claude 3.7 is far superior for coding than Gemini 2.5. I tried it in Cursor and I wanted it to work, as a recent ex-Googler. I repeatedly found it inferior. I think it’s still behind Claud 3.5 for coding. It would decide arbitrarily not to finish tasks and suggest that I do them. It made simple errors and failed to catch them.
  • jinay 2y ago
    Cursor is likely very tuned for Claude (prompts-wise and all) due to its dominance with 3.5 and now 3.7. Still, Gemini 2.5's tool calling has been pretty poor in my experience which Cursor heavily relies on.
    • mjirv 2y ago
      Yep. Tool calling is terrible across all Gemini models. I’m not sure why, when the model itself is so good.
  • SparkyMcUnicorn 2y ago
    It depends on the task, and prompting feels different. I've found that sonnet is possibly better at starting things from scratch and frontend code, while Gemini has been able to one-shot difficult problems and fix bugs that sonnet has struggled with. Switching between them is a frequent occurrence for me. It might be relevant that I've completely stopped using Cursor in favor of other tools/agents.
    • pzo 2y ago
      > It might be relevant that I've completely stopped using Cursor in favor of other tools/agents. Can you share what you use these days? I switched from cursor to windsurf but also want to play more with Trae and Cline/RooCode
      • SparkyMcUnicorn 2y ago
        If I were to recommend one to someone today, I might pick RooCode. I'd suggest checking out boomerang mode and RooFlow on GitHub. Here are some others that I've tried and could recommend, in no particular order: - https://github.com/ai-christianson/RA.Aid https://github.com/ai-christianson/RA.Aid - https://github.com/anthropics/claude-code https://github.com/anthropics/claude-code - https://github.com/block/goose https://github.com/block/goose - https://github.com/hotovo/aider-desk https://github.com/hotovo/aider-desk I've also created a few "agents" to do specific tasks using Probe[0] as an MCP server, although I'm sure you could create a full-fledged agent with it if you wanted to. [0] https://github.com/buger/probe https://github.com/buger/probe
• aprilthird2021 2y ago
  Back when all the articles talked about how OpenAI swiped Google's crown while Google sat on transformers and never productized them, I saw this future coming. Google had back then, and still has, the best research on this topic, and ultimately that was going to win the day. Sure, hindsight is 20/20, and who knows if any of these products will be big money makers vs commodities, and they may still fail at the productization of these things. Sure. But insofar as productization follows great technology, Google was always going to have the upper hand here. It took many years but they did finally start coming out ahead
• codelord 2y ago
  As an Ex-OpenAI employee I agree with this. Most of the top ML talent at OpenAI already have left to either do their own thing or join other startups. A few are still there but I doubt if they'll be around in a year. The main successful product from OpenAI is the ChatGPT app, but there's a limit on how much you can charge people for subscription fees. I think soon people expect this service to be provided for free and ads would become the main option to make money out of chatbots. The whole time that I was at OpenAI until now GOOG has been the only individual stock that I've been holding. Despite the threat to their search business I think they'll bounce back because they have a lot of cards to play. OpenAI is an annoyance for Google, because they are willing to burn money to get users. Google can't as easily burn money, since they already have billions of users, but also they are a public company and have to answer to investors. But I doubt if OpenAI investors would sign up to give more money to be burned in a year. Google just needs to ease off on the red tape and make their innovations available to users as fast as they can. (And don't let me get started with Sam Altman.)
  • ksec 2y ago
    > (And don't let me get started with Sam Altman.) Please do.
    • isoprophlex 2y ago
      I would like to know how he manages to appear, in every single photo I see of him, to look slightly but unmistakenly... moist, or at least sweaty.
      • bryanrasmussen 2y ago
        People keep assassinating him, and clones always look a bit moist the first day out of the pod.
        • falcor84 2y ago
          Are the assassinations because of something we already know about? some new advance that is still under wraps? or is it time travelers with knowledge about what he will do if left unchecked?
• ohgr 2y ago
  Winning as in least bad in arbitrary ranking.
• Waterluvian 2y ago
  > I felt Demis Hassabis was trustworthy in a way Sam Altman couldn't be—a true scientist, not a businessman Not that I think Demis is or is not trustworthy, but I think it’s a bit foolish to believe it would be allowed to matter.
  • eru 2y ago
    I also don't see why scientists should be more trustworthy than business people.
    • procaryote 2y ago
      In theory, one seeks knowledge, the other money. In practice, people are people and there are probably variance in both camps, but it's easy to see why one would by default trust a business person less
      • eru 2y ago
        > In theory, one seeks knowledge, the other money. There's nothing wrong with either in my books, especially if you seek money by serving your fellow humans.
    • blitzar 2y ago
      I also don't see why doctors should be more trustworthy than used car sales people.
      • logicchains 2y ago
        The opiod epidemic should have taught people that indeed doctors shouldn't be trusted more than any other profession.
        • QuadmasterXLII 2y ago
          your trust scale needs more dynamic range- the sackler fiasco genuinely should have bumped everyone’s trust in doctors a lot, but probably should not have bumped them below supplement peddling minecraft youtubers.
• giorgioz 2y ago
  No it's not obvious at all Google is winning AI on every front. There is few stuff Google is systemically behind: 1) UX 2) product and use case innovation I just open Google Gemini Android app and asked to generate a JS script with Gemini 2 Flash and did the same with ChatGPT. Gemini did not highlighted with colors the code. ChatGPT did highlighted with colors the code. Colors in code are extremely useful to grok the code and have a nice DX. I'm sure if I dig into Gemini's product I'll find dozens of UX/DX ways in which ChatGPT is better. Google is still playing catch-up with LLM products. ChatGPT is still the one making the announcements and then Gemini doing the same UX/use case enhancements weeks/months later.
  • Legend2440 2y ago
    >Gemini did not highlighted with colors the code. ChatGPT did highlighted with colors the code. I don't care if the code is highlighted nearly as much as I care if it's right. This kind of stuff is nice-to-have but the quality of the underlying LLM is what really matters.
    • rs186 2y ago
      Well, you don't care but other people care, and likely not one or two people, but enough. And enough of these "little things" added up, one chooses a product over another.
  • neuroelectron 2y ago
    This is very simply a bunch of minor stuff Googlites feel like they're above implementing. They would rather let you implement that and you both get a cut.
    • gessha 2y ago
      Not like Apple’s quality is any better nowadays but Google’s unwillingness to finish their design work and provide a functional product is one of the many reasons I avoid their products like the plague.
• nikolayasdf123 2y ago
  +1 gemini flash is very good models. very cheap, very fast, pretty smart. API integration (if you are inside GCP) is convenient. API is good (gRPC, encoding, OpenAI API style). newest AI notebook studio UI thing also works as you would expect it. well done.
• levocardia 2y ago
  Google is winning on every front except... marketing (Google has a chatbot?), trust (who knew the founding fathers were so diverse?), safety (where's the 2.5 Pro model card?), market share (fully one in ten internet users on the planet are weekly ChatGPT users), and, well, vibes (who's rooting for big G, exactly?). But I will admit, Gemini Pro 2.5 is a legit good model. So, hats off for that.
  • jimbob45 2y ago
    I’m scared they’re going to kill it off. Every good idea they’ve had in the last 20 years has been killed off. Even Fuchsia/Zircon, which should have supplanted Android a full decade ago.
  • 8f2ab37a-ed6c 2y ago
    Google is also terribly paranoid of the LLM saying anything controversial. If you want a summary of some hot topic article you might not have the time to read, Gemini will straight up refuse to answer. ChatGPT and Grok don't mind at all.
    • AznHisoka 2y ago
      The single reason I will never ever be an user of them. Its a hill I will die on
    • silisili 2y ago
      I noticed the same in Gemini. It would refuse to answer mundane questions that none but the most 'enlightened' could find an offensive twist to. This makes it rather unusable as a catch all goto resource, sadly. People are curious by nature. Refusing to answer their questions doesn't squash that, it leads them to potentially less trustworthy sources.
      • rat87 2y ago
        Trying to answer complex questions by making up shit in a confident voice is the worst option. Redirecting to a more trustworthy human source or multiple if needed is much better
• GaggiX 2y ago
  The only thing I think ChatGPT is better is native image generation, their model is able to work in the joint-space much better than any other model I have seen, but I'm sure Google will try to catch up rapidly.
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• admiralrohan 2y ago
  What about Grok and Chinese counterparts? X data is private now which would give advantage it real-time scenarios. And Chinese have made it state-level priority.
• renewiltord 2y ago
  It is very quick to abort conversations and if the safety stuff kicks in, it loses all context. But I will keep giving it a crack since everyone seems to think it’s great. Maybe I just need to learn the tricks.
• YseGuy74000 2y ago
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• YseGuy74000 2y ago
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• tkgally 2y ago
  > Gemini 2.5 Pro in Deep Research mode is twice as good as OpenAI’s Deep Research That matches my impression. For the past month or two, I have been running informal side-by-side tests of the Deep Research products from OpenAI, Perplexity, and Google. OpenAI was clearly winning—more complete and incisive, and no hallucinated sources that I noticed. That changed a few days ago, when Google switched their Deep Research over to Gemini 2.5 Pro Experimental. While OpenAI’s and Perplexity’s reports are still pretty good, Google’s usually seem deeper, more complete, and more incisive. My prompting technique, by the way, is to first explain to a regular model the problem I’m interested in and ask it to write a full prompt that can be given to a reasoning LLM that can search the web. I check the suggested prompt, make a change or two, and then feed it to the Deep Research models. One thing I’ve been playing with is asking for reports that discuss and connect three disparate topics. Below are the reports that the three Deep Research models gave me just now on surrealism, Freudian dream theory, and AI image prompt engineering. Deciding which is best is left as an exercise to the reader. OpenAI: https://chatgpt.com/share/67fa21eb-18a4-8011-9a97-9f8b051ad3d3 https://chatgpt.com/share/67fa21eb-18a4-8011-9a97-9f8b051ad3... Google: https://docs.google.com/document/d/10mF_qThVcoJ5ouPMW-xKg7Cy0hKtnLo73QNikw8H69s/edit?usp=sharing https://docs.google.com/document/d/10mF_qThVcoJ5ouPMW-xKg7Cy... Perplexity: https://www.perplexity.ai/search/subject-analytical-report-inte-3v3iGskiQAKqpbxsg6nQxA#0 https://www.perplexity.ai/search/subject-analytical-report-i...
  • jay_kyburz 2y ago
    > "produce a comprehensive analytical report exploring the conceptual and methodological intersections between Surrealist art techniques, Freudian dream analysis, and the practice of prompt engineering for AI image generation models (such as DALL-E, Midjourney, Stable Diffusion)." Haha, what a perfect project for AI.
  • stafferxrr 2y ago
    Great stuff. My prompts are falling behind after seeing what you are doing here. I find OpenAI annoying at this point that it doesn't output a pdf easily like Perplexity. The best stuff I have found has been in the Perplexity references also. Google outputting a whole doc is really great. I am just about to dig into Gemini 2.5 Pro in Deep Research for the first time.
• gwd 2y ago
  > Add to the above that Gemini 2.5, compared to models of its category, is fast and cheap—I mean, they're giving away free access! A large player with massive existing streams giving away a product in a new market to undercut new entrants? Looks an awful lot like abuse of monopoly position...
• rvba 2y ago
  If google's AI is doing so great why are the "questions and answers" near thr lle search so bad? Also the search quality itself went downhill. There was a great article about that on HN some time ago.
• qwertox 2y ago
  Is it just my computer or do others also have huge performance problems in somewhat large chats in AI Studio? They really need to fix this. It gets to a point where on each submit Google Chrome pops up a "wait | close tab" dialog. I then have to use AI Studio for the "big picture" in one tab and ChatGPT in the smaller subtasks which help with the big picture.
• wiradikusuma 2y ago
  I chat with Gemini Pro 2.5 Exp in Continue.dev IntelliJ plugin. I told it to "implement this method" and it even suggested improvements in other files (that were included in context). I feel like talking to a person. BUT more often than not, it stopped halfway (the code, so it's unusable). I'm not sure if it's the plugin that cannot handle the response, but it never happens with Claude.
• ozgune 2y ago
  I feel the article presents the data selectively in some places. Two examples: * The article compares Gemini 2.5 Pro Experimental to DeepSeek-R1 in accuracy benchmarks. Then, when the comparison becomes about cost, it compares Gemini 2.0 Flash to DeepSeek-R1. * In throughput numbers, DeepSeek-R1 is quoted at 24 tok/s. There are half a dozen providers, who give you easily 100+ tok/s and at scale. There's no doubt that Gemini 2.5 Pro Experimental is a state of the art model. I just think it's very hard to win on every AI front these days.
  • yalok 2y ago
    but also they compare reasoning and non-reasoning models - e.g. Meta's Llama 4
  • JKCalhoun 2y ago
    Orthogonal — the remarkable thing about DeepSeek-R1 seems to me is that it shows how easy it in fact is to create an LLM. A quantitative hedge fund was able to throw money and develop a competitive LLM. Maybe that somewhat reveals that it's just a "man behind the curtain."
• nabla9 2y ago
  Most analysts don't differentiate between: 1) AI research as science and 2) Productization and engineering that science into something to sell. While Google DeepMind focused on things that won Hassabis and Jumper Nobel prize in Chemistry, OpenAI took transformers architecture (Google researchers invented), built the first big model, and engineered it into a product. Google has the best researchers, and does most research. When they finally chose to jump into the business and pull Hassabis and others from doing more important stuff to moneymaking, obviously they win.
  • dragonwriter 2y ago
    No, that's not at all obvious because building products for any given market is a radically different competency than research, and the kind of basic, fundamental research that tends to win Nobels is actually a competency a step further removed from product than normal corporate R&D; outside of Google-scale orgs, it's mostly (whether or not of Nobel quality) done at universities with both product-oriented research and actual productization done in industry, often based largely on published academic results, but generally with no strong direct connection between the people doing the basic research and the people winning the competition for successful commercial products.
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• flexie 2y ago
  Google will need a far better LLM than OpenAI to throw them decisively off the AI throne, just like another company would need a far better search engine than Google to throw them off the search throne. ChatGPT is now the 7th highest ranking website on the planet - does anyone outside the HN crowd know about Google AI Studio? Brands matter, and when regular people think AI, they think of OpenAI before they think Google, even if Google has more AI talents and scores better on tests. And isn't it good? Who wants a world where the same handful of companies dominate all tech?
  • neuderrek 2y ago
    Regular people is not where the money is. For example, I get Gemini as part of my employer’s Google Workspace subscription, and as it is now decent enough, have no need to use anything else.
  • danpalmer 2y ago
    > Google will need a far better LLM than OpenAI … ChatGPT is now the 7th highest ranking website on the planet And Google is #1 and #2, with search and YouTube. Distribution is a huge part of the problem and they’ve got some great distribution options.
  • uncomplexity_ 2y ago
    fair call but 1. unlike openai, google is already cashflow positive and doesnt need to raise any external funds 2. unlike openai, google already has the distribution figured out on both software and hardware google is like an aircraft carrier that takes so fucking long to steer, but once done steering its entire armada will wipe you the fuck out (at least on the top 20% features for 80% use case) anthropic already especialized for coding, openai seems to be steering towards intimacy, i guess they both got the memo that they need to specialize
    • riku_iki 2y ago
      > unlike openai, google is already cashflow positive and doesnt need to raise any external funds this can quickly change in several quarters, if users decide to leave google search, then all google org/infra complexity will play very badly against them
• paradite 2y ago
  The author mentioned AlphaGo and Alpha Zero without mentioning OpenAI gym and OpenAI Five. Those products show OpenAI was innovating and leading in RL at that stage around 2017 to 2019. https://github.com/openai/gym https://github.com/openai/gym https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenAI_Five https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenAI_Five
  • bitpush 2y ago
    This is the first I'm hearing about it.
    • paradite 2y ago
      I forgot to mention that OpenAI also invented PPO, which is the default algorithm that everyone uses for RL since 2017: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proximal_policy_optimization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proximal_policy_optimization DeepSeek's GRPO is also just a minor variant of PPO.
• ReptileMan 2y ago
  Just a fun I had with Gemini 2.5 pro. I asked him to create a code for a toolchain that uses some ai at a point and it stubbornly used OpenAI api and refused to generate code using Gemini apis instead. Also it said it is model trained by google. Didn't knew its name and when asked to generate code for "youself" defaulted to openai. Probably sending people to spend money at your competition is not the surefire way to market dominance.
• cryptozeus 2y ago
  I have been using all AI tools in my job working for ai startup and none of them are google products. May be I should give it a try, their product positioning is horrible
• ww520 2y ago
  May be it's my luck but I found a glaring issue with Gemini 2.5 Pro in AI Studio. I asked it whether a language feature in Zig was available. It answered yes and proceeded to generate a whole working sample code. I compiled it and got an error. Reported the error and it said the error showed I typed it wrong and asked me to make sure it's typed correctly. Eh?! It's a copy-and-paste. I confirmed again it's wrong. It then said it must be my compiler version was too old. Nope, using the latest. It then said very convincingly that based on its extensively research into the language official documentation, official examples, and release notes, the feature must exist. I asked it to show me the reference materials it used to draw the conclusion. None of links it gave were valid. I told it they were wrong. It gave back another set of links and claimed it had checked the links to make sure they are alive. The links were alive but didn't contain any mention of the feature. I let it know again. It admitted couldn't find the mentioned feature. But it insisted the feature had been merged in a PR. The PR link it gave was unrelated. I let it know. It gave me another 3 PR's and said one mentioned something related so the feature must be in. At the point I gave up. The issue was that it sounded very convincing and stated "facts" very confidently, with backings to documents and other resources even if they were wrong or irrelevant. Even when told it gave the wrong info, it would double down and made up some BS reference material to back up its claim.
  • harvey9 2y ago
    Generative AI makes things up so I'm surprised that you seem surprised. For some situations checking the documentation is still the best option.
    • ww520 2y ago
      I know LLM’s hallucinate. I’m surprised how convincing and how stubborn it insisted it’s right. Other LLM’s would have given up and admit they don’t know.
      • harvey9 2y ago
        The other day I wanted to use a function in an unfamiliar library. Gemini kept putting an argument into the call that wasn't supposed to be there even after I explicitly told it not to. This was after I trusted Gemini, got an error message and looked at the docs. The argument it was adding was required for other functions in other libraries the same subject area so I suppose that's why it did it.
• Giorgi 2y ago
  Google AI is a crap. Moment they start "winning" you will see it everywhere.
  • lofaszvanitt 2y ago
    Now watch the dance to protect their adsnitch ecosystem.
• lofaszvanitt 2y ago
  Now is the time to wrestle away chrome or the AI things. Company is too big. Time to butcher.
• dtquad 2y ago
  Google is the primary target for current US anti-big-tech sentiments that are getting political traction with Lina Khan and Steve Bannon teaming up at a recent conference against US Big Tech companies. J.D. Vance has also expressed that he agrees with Lina Khan and Steve Bannon and would like to see US Big Tech companies like Google be forcibly split up. What will happen with Google's AI wing when Google inevitably gets split up in the next 4-8 years?
  • fancyfredbot 2y ago
    Are the administration really going to risk messing with one of their leading AI companies while they are also terrified of China catching up or overtaking them in leading edge AI? I wouldn't put it past them but I don't think it's a given either.
    • gessha 2y ago
      In my opinion they should because the US doesn’t have any GPU restrictions and VCs are hungry for disruption. The US also has the tech talent pool to throw at the problem unlike in manufacturing. After breaking up Google, there will be a lot more moats to be had vs being stifled by the Google behemoth.
      • bitpush 2y ago
        Step 1: introduce chaos. Step 2: ?? Step 3: profit. Is that the strategy?
• p0w3n3d 2y ago
  I recently had to check some legal thing - I gave the pdf with law to both - chatgpt and Gemini, and I was able to convince the Gemini that my interpretation is right, but chatgpt was constantly opposing me. Later I checked and found out that my interpretation was wrong, so I'd say that chatgpt was better and moreover it spared me some problems with "Polish IRS"
  • ZeroTalent 2y ago
    "Polish IRS" — I never heard that term before. Do you mean the gov revenue service of Poland or something else?
    • Philpax 2y ago
      Yes, they'd be referring to the IRS equivalent for Poland.
      • ZeroTalent 2y ago
        Right. I thought it was some term like "polishing the IRS" that I had never heard of. Just wanted to make sure :)
    • p0w3n3d 2y ago
      Urząd Skarbowy. An office that takes care about income tax (among others)
• a1371 2y ago
  I think my experience has been different from everyone else. As an owner of a pixel phone and multiple Google accounts, I wanted this to be true. But Gemini has been super inconsistent with tasks that are trivial for Google Assistant. I even bought the $26 AI plan for my account to help with some proofreading and it's been awful compared to ChatGPT. I'm about to cancel it.
  • flux293m 2y ago
    Something I've noticed is that Gemini through gemini.google.com or through the mobile apps is vastly inferior to Gemini through aistudio.google.com. Much worse handling of long contexts amongst other things. Very odd that a product that is free (AI Studio use is free), is much worse than the product I am paying 20 quid a month for. I find this to be especially true for the newer models like "gemini-2.5-pro-preview-03-25", so if you haven't tried AI Studio yet, I'd give that a go.
    • SubiculumCode 2y ago
      Every time I think, maybe I'll get a subscription, I read something like this and ask why?
    • SkyMarshal 2y ago
      Why does Google even have these two different interfaces?
      • seafoamteal 2y ago
        AI studio is not a consumer interface. It's targeted at people building products that integrate LLMs.
        • sumedh 2y ago
          They also have Vertex AI for the same thing.
      • tmarthal 2y ago
• keepamovin 2y ago
  I still find OpenAI Whisper transcription the absolute best there is. Grok is the best reasoning/code model right now IMO, but it's audio transcription (and Apple's audio transcription) still totally sucks.
• zmmmmm 2y ago
  I haven't seen anyone else integrate LLMs properly with email and calendar other than Google. I had an interesting experience: I was taking out a loan for some solar panels and there were some complicated instructions across multiple emails. I asked Gemini to summarise exactly what I had to do. It looked through my emails and told me I had to go to the web site for local rebate scheme and apply there. It even emphasised that it was important that I do that. I scoffed at it because I thought my installer was going to do that and wrote it off. A few weeks later, guess what: the installer calls me because they can't see the rebate application in their portal and want me to go check that I applied for it (!). Sure enough, I missed the language in the email telling me to do that and had to do exactly what Gemini had said weeks ago. I do think Google has a real shot here because they have such an integrated email and calendaring solution where everyone already assumes it's online, fully indexed etc.
• mekpro 2y ago
  Google is also the only company that has had their own AI hardware that's worked (TPU). This could lead to more cost-effective training + inference and hence better AI.
• CSMastermind 2y ago
  I run every query I do through all the major models, up to 10 of them at this point. Benchmarks aside Gemini 2.5 Pro is a great model and now often produces the best code for me but it's not notably better than any of the other frontier models in my testing each of which tends to have their own strengths and weaknesses. And Google's wrapper around Gemini is easily the most frustrating of any of the major AI companies. It's content guardrails are annoying and I just learned yesterday it won't let you upload json files for whatever reason (change the extension to txt without modifying the contents in any way and it works just fine).
  • enlyth 2y ago
    Gemini 2.5 Pro does this annoying thing where it decides to refactor every part of your code even if you didn't ask, and also it outputs way too many damn comments on almost every line in the style of: // Increment variable by 1 I find Claude 3.7 better at following instructions, even though the solutions it comes up with may not be the best at times
  • ZeroTalent 2y ago
    This is why we use Gemini and its context window as the architect and Sonnet 3.7 Max for implementation.
    • SubiculumCode 2y ago
      How does that work exactly? Gemini outlines it in pseudo code?, Sonnet writes it?
• DisjointedHunt 2y ago
  Not on cars, not in robotics, not in commercially deployed AI, not in enterprise investments in their cloud business. They've got immense potential, sure. But to say that they're winning is a bit far from reality. Right now, their Cloud AI offerings to the enterprise are technologically superior to anything else out there from AWS, but guess what? AWS seems to have significantly more %age sales growth in this space with their larger base compared to GCP with their smaller market share. The same can be said across turn based chat and physical AI. OpenAI continues to be the growth leader in the consumer space and a collection of Claude + self hosted + Gemini now in the enterprise / API space. They need to be measuring themselves on moving the needle in adoption now. I'd hate for such amazing progress to stall out in a niche.
  • Philpax 2y ago
    I would say they're winning with Waymo: I took a fully autonomous taxi ride in the backseat in SF, and it just worked. No other company can currently do that, despite their promises and hype.
    • DisjointedHunt 2y ago
      Each Waymo is > $140,000 of customized hardware and is limited to specific cities. Autonomy in commercial vehicles is arguably led by Tesla on coverage, miles driven, ready hardware, cost per mile etc. They’re going to start pushing tests on their consumer fleet, converting them to optionally commercial taxi rides soon with the fleet owner model versus the central provider model. This is scheduled for June in Austin and confirmed to be on schedule. You can also take fully autonomous bus rides in China right now, even there, for, early reviews, the latest Tesla Autopilot blows everything else out of the water. I’m not trying to push Tesla alone, but I’m trying to highlight the gap in adoption goals. What is Waymos ambition this year? How much can they ramp their fleet at $140k per unit versus Teslas consumer fleet and upcoming low cost robotaxi with the mass manufacturing improvements further lowering cost per unit?
      • Philpax 2y ago
        As with everything related to Tesla FSD/Autopilot, I'll believe it when I see it. They have not earned the benefit of the doubt. Waymo works as a robotaxi today, Tesla doesn't. I'll grant you Chinese developments; I'm not across what's happening there, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was on par, yes. My bet is that they can reduce the cost of their working solution more reliably and safely than Tesla can get their solution working at scale.
• labrador 2y ago
  I only AI for one reason since I'm retired and live alone: Life-like chats with a reasonable approximation of a knowledgeable friend. With the new memory features ChatGPT excels at that. I'm not even sure Google cares about that; that goes to show how little of it I've noticed with Google.
  • unknown_user_84 2y ago
    While I'm not sure it's exactly what you're looking for I've found success with a variety of Gemini models getting them to take to a specific persona when given initial prompts to take on a specific persona. Gemini 2.5 is specifically interesting because the <thinking> block shows how much the notebook is playing a persona/role vs. becoming that role. In my experience Gemini 2.5 Pro likes to revert to 'maintaining a persona' in the <thinking> block. I questioned it about this at one point and it pointed out that humans also maintain a certain persona in their responses, and that you can't see their thinking. Still not entirely sure what I think about that. I have experimented with telling the notebook to change the <thinking> block to a more narrative style. It seems to like to revert to ordered lists and bullet points if not continuously prompted to think in narrative. Regarding maintaining consistency throughout the chat I have noticed Gemini 2.5 seems able to do this for quite a while but falls victim to the needle in a haystack problem that all LLMs seem to suffer from with an extremely long context and no external tooling. I have a substack post on creating the initial prompt, which I call a bootstrap, using AI Studio and a set of system instructions if you are curious to explore. https://consciousnesscrucible.substack.com/p/creating-character-bootstraps https://consciousnesscrucible.substack.com/p/creating-charac...
    • labrador 2y ago
      Really good stuff, thank your for sharing it. I don't know if you've had a lot of experience with ChatGPT's new memory feature. It's not a character I'm looking for necessarily but simulating a friend. Like a real friend, I don't have to keep reminding ChatGPT of facts, thoughts and feelings I've had because it remembers them and brings them up when appropriate. It's uncanny and I think what Google lacks for now. If I ever change ChatGPT from it's default personality I'll refer back to your guide.
• pzo 2y ago
  Apart from Gemini 2.5 Pro they have a decent Jack-of-all-trades master of none/price Gemini 2.0 Flash. 1) is dirty cheap ($0.1M/$0.4M), 2) is multimodal (image and audio), 3) reliable rate limit (comparing to OSS ml ai providers), 4) fast (200 tokens/s). 5) if need realtime API they provide as well for more expensive price (audio-to-audio) It's my go to model for using as an API for some apps/products. https://artificialanalysis.ai/models/gemini-2-0-flash/providers https://artificialanalysis.ai/models/gemini-2-0-flash/provid...
  • buggyipadmettoo 2y ago
    I thought genini 2 flash API was free (for personal use at least)? I just created an iOS shortcut to call it, and didn’t pay anything.
    • pzo 2y ago
      yes they also have very decent free tier which is great, but keep in mind prompts "used to improve our products". We will see if free tier will stick for long or is temporary - they removed details how big free tier is but still great for testing. If they added seamless google oauth + key generation + account topup for end users that would be even great for BYOK apps. Mobile developers then wouldn't have to setup infra, subscription monitoring, abuse monitoring etc. But I guess they don't want to subsidise it in the end and they target it just for developers.
• sMarsIntruder 2y ago
  While the article correctly highlights Google’s significant advancements and formidable position in the AI race, calling them the winner on every front feels like a bit of a stretch and potentially overlooks some nuances, like SGE integration which isn’t universally loved. Too much fanboyism imho
• pcdoodle 2y ago
  And then one day "pooof".
• godjan 2y ago
  The article doesn't mention one of the most complex benchmarks - ARC challenge. All models suck in it https://arcprize.org/leaderboard https://arcprize.org/leaderboard but Gemini and Claude still suck much worse then ChatGPT models
  • nolist_policy 2y ago
    They haven't tested Gemini 2.5 Pro yet.
    • usaar333 2y ago
      They have. https://x.com/arcprize/status/1905361753678246308 https://x.com/arcprize/status/1905361753678246308
• Alifatisk 2y ago
  Wow, reading these comments it seems like Gemini 2.5 Pro Exp (assuming from gemini.google.com and not from Google Ai studio) is actually worth giving a shot! Is it really that impressive of a model now? I've been using Qwen Chat a lot for the last couple of months because I got tired of Claudes small quota for free users, ChatGPTs inferior models and absurd pricing and Geminis (the previous models) heavy guardrails and censorship, like to the point that sincerely prompts actually triggers refusal. I'll try Gemini 2.5 Pro Exp again and see how well it performs this time. Also, did anyone notice that the ui of Google ai studio has changed? Can't find any mentions of this update in the release notes https://ai.google.dev/gemini-api/docs/changelog https://ai.google.dev/gemini-api/docs/changelog
• p1dda 2y ago
  Funny how a company who once had a motto of don't be evil turned out to be: evil
• karel-3d 2y ago
  Please explain to me like I am stupid. If I want to use OpenAI models, I download ChatGPT app. What do I need to do to use Google's model? They have so mamy things called Gemini... I genuinely have no clue
  • marcusb 2y ago
    https://aistudio.google.com/prompts/new_chat https://aistudio.google.com/prompts/new_chat
    • karel-3d 2y ago
      thanks edit: I get "internal erorr received: permission denied"... ok will try it later
  • jwr 2y ago
    Or, just use TypingMind or something similar to get access to all the major models through a single interface.
  • brap 2y ago
    google.com/gemini There’s also AI Studio another commenter mentioned, but that’s for more advanced users who want to tweak it
  • thebigspacefuck 2y ago
    There’s a Gemini app on mobile but if you’re on desktop use https://aistudio.google.com https://aistudio.google.com. They are behind in this aspect, hopefully they release a desktop app with MCP.
• GrumpyNl 2y ago
  But, its Google, you will end up as the product.
• k2xl 2y ago
  I can’t use their video gen model veo2 since there is a waitlist… hard to tell if they are winning in video when they haven’t scaled that product.
• porphyra 2y ago
  As long as Google continues to hamstring themselves with censorship for no reason, I can't use their products. The other day I asked gemini 2.5 pro "which british ceo said that his company's products were bad" and the response was > I'm just a language model, so I can't help you with that. https://g.co/gemini/share/cb3afc3e7f78 https://g.co/gemini/share/cb3afc3e7f78 Chatgpt 4o correctly identified the guy as Ratner and provided the relevant quotes.
  • tomrod 2y ago
    Try asking with a Ceasar cipher.
    • jeanlucas 2y ago
      That's a new level of bad user experience
      • deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      • tomrod 2y ago
        And yet, great workaround.
  • Tiktaalik 2y ago
    It seems more likely just a weird bug considering that I can't understand at all why this topic would be considered controversial or censure worthy. (casually googling this same line just now does reveal an AI suggestion with the correct answer)
    • porphyra 2y ago
      I could even see Gemini 2.5 googling the right things and "thinking" about Gerald Ratner before it abruptly censored itself at the last moment.
  • uejfiweun 2y ago
• mmmBacon 2y ago
  AI is essentially a hardware/electricity arms race. Whatever model is at the top can be surpassed if a competitor has enough compute scale. We are rapidly approaching the era where it’s difficult to have enough power in one campus. Distributed sites are needed if models continue to scale at 4.7x/year (see Epoch.ai) simply from a power perspective. You have to put the data centers where the power is and connect them together. I believe the era of distributed training is already here however not everyone will be able to distribute training to multiple sites using their scale up networks. Their scale out networks will not be ready. So it could be that we see models plateau until distributed training infra is available. I see the infrastructure side of AI and based on HW build out; Google has been slow to build and is behind everywhere.
• csmpltn 2y ago
  Google is winning because LLMs without a (good) search backend are mostly useless. So many LLM workloads require high quality search results (backed by efficient, relevant, complete and up-to-date indexes), and that’s Google’s muscle.
  • nailer 2y ago
    Copilot has been doing this, using Bing, for a year not and it’s been great.
• brap 2y ago
  I think the key is that Google is the gateway to the internet for the entire world. Think about it. Whatever you’re trying to do online, either Search, Chrome or Android are in the critical path of like 90%+ of people if not more. Once AI is deeply baked into these products, which are more like the “operating system” of the internet, the race is basically over. Not to mention that Google is already sitting on the largest money printer in history and they can do this all day.
  • throwup238 2y ago
    That becomes really clear when using Gemini Deep Research vs OpenAI. I tried running the same research questions in both and Google regularly reads 10x as many sources as OpenAI and does it faster.
    • brap 2y ago
      I actually meant it in terms of having insane reach to end users, but yes, it most likely helps with finding/processing information
• davidmurdoch 2y ago
  Whatever model responds to me on my Android phone is as dumb as rocks. The Assistant was actually much better.
  • fragmede 2y ago
    Could be worse, you could be using Siri.
• patwolf 2y ago
  I use ChatGPT, Claude, Grok, and Gemini regularly. Even though 2.5 pro is really good, I find myself using Gemini the least because I have an aversion to giving Google even more data about me. I know that even if they never inject ads directly in Gemini, they'll be using my prompts to target me.
• Arch-TK 2y ago
  The Rubik's cube example is just reversing the moves. Writing a visualiser and basic scrambler isn't hard to stumble upon, there's endless training material and not much to screw up. Writing a working solver even if you train it on examples would be hard. Very funny.
• jonplackett 2y ago
  I’m still really surprised everyone loves Gemini 2.5 so much. Even for coding I find GPT4o to be more concise and write more sensible things. I get the one-shot ‘build me a flight simulator’ type thing is special to Gemini 2.5 - but who actually ever uses it that way? I feel a bit old school for aging it, but I still prefer ChatGPT at this moment. Am I the only one?
  • thebigspacefuck 2y ago
    If you’re not using something like Cline or Cursor you should give them a try. I haven’t found any OpenAI models good for agentic coding. o3-mini and 4o were both worse than 3.5 Sonnet. 3.7 and Gemini 2.5 Pro both seem be better than 3.5. I still use 4o with search as my primary reference model though.
• raylan 2y ago
  [flagged]
• gcanyon 2y ago
  Several people have suggested that LLMs might end up ad-supported. I'll point out that "ad supported" might be incredibly subtle/insidious when applied to LLMs: An LLM-based "adsense" could: 1. Maintain a list of sponsors looking to buy ads 2. Maintain a profile of users/ad targets 3. Monitor all inputs/outputs 4. Insert "recommendations" (ads) smoothly/imperceptibly in the course of normal conversation No one would ever need to/be able to know if the output: "In order to increase hip flexibility, you might consider taking up yoga." Was generated because it might lead to the question: "What kind of yoga equipment could I use for that?" Which could then lead to the output: "You might want to get a yoga mat and foam blocks. I can describe some of the best moves for hips, or make some recommendations for foam blocks you need to do those moves?" The above is ham-handed compared to what an LLM could do.
  • JKCalhoun 2y ago
    You ask two different corporate LLMs and compare answers.
    • pixl97 2y ago
      Every corporate LLM: "Why of course an ice cold Coca Cola is a healthy drink"
  • wccrawford 2y ago
    Yeah, ad-supported LLMs would be incredibly bad. But "free" is a magic word in our brains, and I'm 100% sure that many, many people will choose it over paying for it to be uncorrupted by ads.
    • torginus 2y ago
      Free might as well be a curse-word to me, and I'm not alone. I'm old enough to have experience in pre-internet era magazines, and the downgrade in quality from paid publications to free ones has been quite substatial. Free-to-play is a thing in video games, and for most, it means they'll try to bully you into spending more money than you'd be otherwise comfortable with. I think everyone at this point had enough bad experiences with 'free' stuff to be wary of it.
• HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
  It's always seemed to me that AI is going to be a commodity business - it's pretty clear that any company with enough money can compete, and it seems that current LLM-based AI is levelling off in terms of capability, with the new focus being on building layers of services on top of that (e.g. deep research agents). In a commodity business cost is key, and Google with their N'th generation home grown TPUs and AI-optimized datacenters have a big advantage over anyone paying NVIDIA markups for accelerators or without this level of vertical integration.
• twism 2y ago
  Feed th deep research result into notebookLM and download the audio overview .. game changing
  • kailuowang 2y ago
    Maybe it's an Gemini advance only feature but you can generate audio overview right there in gemini interface.
  • AIPedant 2y ago
    I don't use Deep Research or NotebookLM myself (or any other generative AI product). But every example of a NotebookLM audio overview I've seen was actively misleading and ignored critical context. However the voices were very personable and entertaining! Likewise Deep Research uses terrible sources and often gets things wrong, I have yet to see a single example that holds up to scrutiny...but it sure goes down smooth compared to reading a bunch of disparate papers! I suspect Deep Research and NotebookLM aren't used to get information so much as to provide extremely low-quality infotainment. I read Wikipedia recreationally and I can definitely see the appeal of having a Wikipedia-like article/podcast for anything you can think of. But they seem miserably bad for actually learning stuff (especially the stupid podcasts).
• microtherion 2y ago
  I have no direct experience with Gemini itself, but the LLM integration into search has unquestionably made the product shittier than before, so I'm inclined to distrust the hype in this article.
• varelse 2y ago
  [dead]
• asadalt 2y ago
  now we know what ilya saw.
• aunty_helen 2y ago
  I just wish they would stop trying to use their models to help keep their terrible cloud business alive. Currently my teams building 2-3 systems based on Gemini, but trying to walk a client through setting up a gcp account and provision the model for video is a horrible experience. Chat et al would break their own backs trying to give you an api key fast enough, not google. Here’s a comically bad process with several layers of permissions that nobody asked for. The irony of using ChatGPT to walk through setting up Gemini for a client was a highlight for me this week.
• cnych 2y ago
  But every time Google's ultimate move is sniped~~~~, Google added AI to the search result page, which greatly reduced the traffic of webmasters.
• jjallen 2y ago
  I guess I would argue that revenue, while not everything that matters, is super important. And I’m guessing that Google has nowhere near the revenue that OpenAI has. Even if they can bundle for “loyalty”, that is an uncertain future there. Magen it will work. Probably so. Still uncertain.
• croes 2y ago
  At the moment all these AIs are losing at the front of living up to the claims of their providers. All make simple mistakes, all hallucinate, all are not reliable.
• cryptoegorophy 2y ago
  Was this post and comments paid by Google? Google lost the first movers advantage and it is too woke still.
• not_a_bot_4sho 2y ago
  I appreciate the author being upfront about their bias.
• siliconc0w 2y ago
  Totally agree Gemini Pro 2.5 is currently ahead but it isn't by a gigantic amount. It's also still uncertain whether Google can turn Gemini into a successful product that either consumers or businesses want to use. They are famously bad at translating their technological advantage into good products - for example the way they shoehorn AI chat into search just makes both worse (imo). I think OpenAI has the consumers and that'll make it easier to get business. Once they start eating into Google's lunch with AI booked flights and hotels...
• phemartin 2y ago
  Except the metric that really matters... USAGE.
• _blk 2y ago
  User friendliness wise nothing beats Grok3 because it warns that a pro should be consulted but usually still gives you an answer, mostly even a good one. OpenAi and bigG are strongly biased and refuse to go into anything remotely controversial and take strong don't sue me stance over advocating the user's responsibility.
• lemonish97 2y ago
  Honestly love gemini for zero-shot coding. But for some reason I'd still lean towards GPT4o for just natural conversations and day-to-day queries. Something about 4o's tone and behavior just clicks with me.
• alimhaq 2y ago
  Why is no one mentioning the fact that o3-mini is a couple months old model, and according to Sam Altman, they will be releasing o3 and o4-mini soon? Release dates especially by a couple months matters a lot right now
• nipperkinfeet 2y ago
  Probably the weakest. ChatGPT is winning.
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• ein0p 2y ago
  I hear from my OpenAI contacts that the next wave of thinking models are going to blow the socks off Google. In some ways they already do (speech, images). So this lead will likely be short lived. That said, in the meantime I did get paid API access. The friction for the scenarios I need LLM for is effectively zero, and I'll use whichever sucks the least at the moment for any given task.
• zkmon 2y ago
  I think Google deserves it. Didn't they come up with the foundational paper - All you need is attention? And then Colab, Tensorflow etc. Though not relevant, I remember Map-Reduce paper was also from Google, leading to big-data revolution.
• sidcool 2y ago
  There were people saying Google will die once OpenAI and Perplexity takes over. Deluded bunch.
• cryptozeus 2y ago
  This article is the example of why google ai is not winning market share. All you have shown is bunch of graphs and numbers, two image and video examples are horrible. This would not want me even touch google ai. Meanwhile world is going crazy over ghibli images with openai. Users are not stupid!
  • gavmor 2y ago
    Do Ghibli images represent the most significant—lucrative, high-margin, world-changing, or ubiquitously impactful—vertical to which generative models can be applied?
• calmworm 2y ago
  No, no it’s not. lol.
• silexia 2y ago
  Strange, my perspective is that I get better answers from ChatGPT on most questions than Gemini advanced 2.5.
• gigatexal 2y ago
  Data oriented Cloud devs (terraform, data processing etc) which of the chat LlMs do you like the best?
• ahmedhawas123 2y ago
  I do agree with a lot of what is said here. There are however a few things that I think will hinder Google on the long-run: - The last time I checked (3-4 months ago) Gemini embedding models are probably the least reliable / contextually aware out there - A significant chunk of the market will want the ability to use locally hosted models / manage their own which Google currently has no play for - API documentation. Across the big managed models they are likely the least well documented model. - Allowing for more system vs. user prompts
• uejfiweun 2y ago
  If Google is able to ignore the pressure to bring in revenue from AI and is able to outcompete the others at automating AI research itself, I think they will win the war. It seems that they certainly have an advantage, with limited pressure from outside investors, their own hardware stack, a constant flow of cash through the other lines of business, and a head start against most of the other giant tech companies.
• sva_ 2y ago
  It is sort of funny to me how the sentiment about whoever seems to be leading in ML changes so frequently (in particular here on HN.) A couple months ago it felt like people were sure that Google completely fucked it up for themselves (especially due to the fact that they invented the transformer but didn't productize it themselves at first.) For a short while, Claude was the best thing since sliced cheese, then Deepseek was the shit, and now seemingly OpenAI really falls out of favor. It kinda feels to me like people cast their judgement too early (perhaps again in this case.) I guess these are the hypecycles... Google is killing it right now, I agree. But the world might appear completely different in three months.
  • patrickhogan1 2y ago
    It’s not just sentiment though. It’s reality. Before December 2024 timeframe Google’s models were awful. Now with 2.5 they are awesome. There is no clear winner. The pace is fast.
  • h2zizzle 2y ago
    You could also be seeing waves of various astroturf campaigns.
    • sva_ 2y ago
      Yeah... I wish there were laws that would require disclosure of such behavior. Might be tricky to implement though, and probably contradicts the interests of politicians.
    • joenot443 2y ago
      Personally, I don't really think there's a team at Google, nor at OpenAI, paying for "astroturfing" on sites like HN. What are the rough steps through which you see this working? I see people talking about "astroturfing" all the time without much explanation on the mechanisms. So roughly, there are employees paid solely to post on social media like HN trying to push the needle in one direction or another?
      • 2y ago
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• indigodaddy 2y ago
  "They're also small, which makes them perfect for edge applications and phone integration." - you can't locally install or onprem Gemini right, so why does small make it better for edge applications, essentially because small means light and fast, so it will respond quicker and with less latency? Requests are still going out over the network to Google though right?
  • bagacrap 2y ago
    Wrong, Android and Chrome infer locally
    • indigodaddy 2y ago
      So Gemini on Android isn't sending requests to the Internet? Highly unlikely
      • bagacrap 2y ago
        I didn't mean to imply that all inference is local. A dynamic combination of server and local inference is called "hybrid".
  • noname120 2y ago
    You probably missed the news: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43632049 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43632049
• reportgenix 2y ago
  [flagged]
• nullbio 2y ago
  Can we please outlaw advertising with AI chatbots before it becomes a plague? Once it starts, there is no turning back. But if we can get ahead of this now based on what we've already learned about the internet then we can perhaps prevent the carnage that is going to happen.
  • zipmapfoldright 2y ago
    what we need is not more regulation
• xpe 2y ago
  > Neither OpenAI nor Anthropic have a chance at this point I'm so done with articles that don't even try to talk about probability sensibly. The article doesn't make a good case even for a watered-down version of the claim. Where is the logic? Until the author puts forth his model of change and how/why Google is unassailably ahead, I'm not buying his hyperbole. > When I put the Google + DeepMind picture together, I can only wonder why people, myself included, ever became so bullish on OpenAI or Anthropic or even Meta. Yikes. Hindsight bias in full display.
• hadlock 2y ago
  > is fast and cheap—I mean, they're giving away free access!—has a gigantic context window of 1 million tokens (only recently surpassed by Meta’s Llama 4) and it’s connected to the entire Google suite of products Is this a feature? I feel like using Google's LLM products only serves to feed their Ad machine to sell me more ads. Every cloud based office suite offers AI functionality now. Unless I'm doing something really complex/dramatic I'm going to choose the LLM that isn't tied to a giant machine selling me ads over the one that does every time. Chat LLM products have pretty much effectively allowed me to divorce myself from the Google Ad Machine, now that I'm free I'm not walking back willingly.
• IG_Semmelweiss 2y ago
  I tried to use the free Gemini google tier for the longest time until a few months ago. For a while, i was using it as a 2nd or 3rd backup response. After a lot of disappointment , I finally gave up. The responses vs Grok and OpenAI were nothing short of atrocious. Plus, a lot of content was effectively kneecapped behind censor walls. Is it really true the 2.5 is actually good ?
• FilosofumRex 2y ago
  Industrial/commercial adoption of LLMs is quite varied and critically depends on the quality vs criticality match. In healthcare, engineering, construction, manufacturing, or aviation industires adoption is mostly on the admin side for low priority/busy work - virtually no doctors, pharmacists, nurses, engineers, technicians or even sales people use LLMs on the job. LLMs products have serious quality issues and are decades behind industrial databases, simulation and diagnostic tools. On the other hand in academics, consulting, publishing, journalism, marketing, advertising, law and insurance industries it's wildly adopted and is surging. For example, Westlaw's Co-counsel is better at drafting and case law briefing than all but the most experienced litigators. Not only it has not replaced lawyers, but is causing a boom in hiring since the time and cost of training new associates is drastically reduced and allows firms to take on more clients with more sophisticated case work.
• hm-nah 2y ago
  Eh…everything but the Cloud Platform UI/UX/Usability front. GCP portal is a hot mess. It is far worse than Azure and slightly worse than AWS.
• coolvision 2y ago
  Might it be because of more relaxed culture, and less pressure on researchers and engineers? Innovation likes freedom and exploration, not deadlines.
• dostick 2y ago
  Is it all because co-founder returned and driving things?
• ydcare 2y ago
  [dead]
• ByteScout_526 2y ago
  [dead]
• conartist6 2y ago
  Just means they're the lead seller of hype in the hype bubble...
• upmind 2y ago
  Surprised to see that no one commented out that this post gives heavy generated by AI vibes, for instance, there are so many - dashes.
• nigel_doug 2y ago
  Does anyone know of a decent video game made with AI yet?
• Aeroi 2y ago
  anyone in the know, saw this coming 6 months ago. It's possible they will continue to steamroll.
• aitchnyu 2y ago
  Tangential, are Gemini and Deepseek models priced sustainably or will they reduce inferencing power and increase price after getting early adopters?
• anna121221 2y ago
  [flagged]
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• jerrysmith6478 2y ago
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• jerrysmith6478 2y ago
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• jerrysmith6478 2y ago
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• jerrysmith6478 2y ago
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• jerrysmith6478 2y ago
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• jerrysmith6478 2y ago
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• jerrysmith6478 2y ago
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• benmathes 2y ago
  Searched for "innovator's dilemma" in the article, didn't find it. The crux is not whether the extremely rich incumbent (google) will have better infrastructure, but whether that is the field of competition that matters.
• raindropm 2y ago
  Gemini is really good, dev is happy, cost is low, but the mass just don't use it, The UX feels...weird(in my opinion), and Google marketing just sucks. Look at the craze of GPT-4o image gen launch, Pretty sure none of that will ever happened with Gemini(which tbf, have extremely good imagen too!) They have weird too-careful-and-afraid-to-step-on-someone-toes approach to marketing, and that shows. OpenAI have Sam as 'presenter' that people can hear him talk enthusiastically, Grok have Elon, even though that not really help much. Gemini? just AI product from faceless mega corporate. People don't feel relate to that. The emotion is part of equation of why people use something, not just function. Also doesn't help with ChatGPT name already cemented in AI history. Every Bob and Jane heard about ChatGPT even they're use it once, but Gemini...who?