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Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

• thesh4d0w 2y ago
  > Trudeau, who is now answering questions from reporters, said his one regret of his premiership has been his failure to introduce electoral reform. Oh please, you had lots of time to address this and instead you've just handed us to the conservatives.
  • tgv 2y ago
    Electoral reforms are only proposed by those who think they'll benefit from them.
    • JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > Electoral reforms are only proposed by those who think they'll benefit from them There is a long history of this not being true, particularly by outgoing leaders. See, for example, how Nixon almost abolished the electoral college.
      • votepaunchy 2y ago
        Almost? The proposed amendment that passed the House but failed in the Senate? If 3/4 of the states were going to pass an amendment then why wouldn't 2/3 call for a convention of the states?
        • JumpCrisscross 2y ago
          > proposed amendment that passed the House but failed in the Senate Yes. Read the history of its support. If Nixon’s SCOTUS pick hadn’t been tanked the amendment would have likely passed. > If 3/4 of the states were going to pass an amendment then why wouldn't 2/3 call for a convention of the states? One of these is more drastic than the other.
    • usrusr 2y ago
      True. And I believe every system will eventually be gamed to some amount. You do occasionally need change. But if you were to artificially enforce some "full rewrite" reform e.g. every n decades, that reform would just end up a tug of war between sides already deep into the existing gaming, trying to increase the effect of whatever tactic their side excels in. One candidate for a possible workaround that I've occasionally been speculating about would be an organized process where n groups are tasked with doing n "rewrites" in parallel, and then a process that somehow mixes approval and random selection to pick one. The rationale would be the hope that the low chance of a particular rewrite actually making it would add some distance, would reduce the gaming-the-system incentives. Everybody has some amount of motivation to actually design a fair system, but that's competing with incentive to make it gameable by whatever side the co-author in question is on. But that fairness incentive would not really be diminished much by writing a what-if instead of a definitive future, whereas the incentive to deliberately flaw the would-be system to make it easier to game gets lower with a shrinking likelihood of the proposal actually getting implemented.
  • LanceJones 2y ago
    Who is "us"?
    • karmasimida 2y ago
      Yeah that is a good question to OP The predicted conservative win if the election happens right away, would be a landslide in every sense of that word
      • mardifoufs 2y ago
        Would it be possible for it to not happen right away? They are in a minority government without a PM, I really wonder if there's a way the elections aren't triggered basically instantly.
        • warmlander99 2y ago
          With Trudeau leaving, I suspect that at least one of the other parties will give them enough time to elect a new leader before bringing down the government. The government may even last until the required election date of late October however, nothing of any importance will likely be passed in that time
        • brailsafe 2y ago
          He stays on until late march, they need to select a new party leader and then an elections held
          • warmlander99 2y ago
            Unfortunately, the liberal party rules say they require a minimum of four months to elect a new leader. They may be able to fast track it in three months, but it’s entirely up to the liberal party so I suspect Trudeau will still be leader when Parliament resumes.
            • bryanlarsen 2y ago
  • deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  • renewiltord 2y ago
    BC perplexingly chose otherwise. People always seem to hate this. Even here in California, we’re lucky to be able to rank everyone in SF but few other cities can. And every election, there’s a lot of “IRV is ruining this city” when candidates with fewer first choice votes win.
    • nindalf 2y ago
      Alaska got Ranked Choice Voting and after every election cycle where a Democrat wins they're up in arms about how it's bad. This time the repeal effort got within a whisker of succeeding, while the Democrat (Mary Peltola) lost her congressional seat. RCV encourages moderation, meaning candidates like Peltola and Senator Murkowski (R) win statewide office. This distresses people who feel like such moderates are very far from their own views.
      • linksnapzz 2y ago
        The Duchess of Alaska is a "moderate" only insofar as her first and overriding loyalty is to the what the permanent Federal Civil Service in DC wants. She'll agree with anyone of any ideological stripe so long as she knows the will of the bureaucracy is being carried out.
        • alephnerd 2y ago
          Unlike most states, Alaska is heavily dependent on the federal government due to the massive defense footprint and ANCSAs.
      • JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > This distresses people who feel like such moderates are very far from their own views It pisses off people who don’t understand compromise.
        • nindalf 2y ago
          They don't want to compromise, agreed. But they know they live in a state where any presidential candidate with (R) next to their name can win by 10-20 points. So they wonder how such a state can elect a Democrat without something underhanded going on. A working theory is that the RCV system is "too confusing" for some folks and it leads to the D candidate winning an "undeserved" victory.
  • jmclnx 2y ago
    I hope Canada does not go the "Trump" Route. But from people in Canada I know, they think that is distinct possibility.
    • ARandomerDude 2y ago
      The frustrations are certainly similar: > Trudeau has faced mounting pressure to resign amid polling that showed his ruling Liberal Party was likely to be swept out of power in the next election by the opposition Conservative Party. The prime minister has also become deeply unpopular over a range of issues, including the soaring cost of living and immigration. His leadership as further thrown into question when his finance minister abruptly quit in December. https://www.newsweek.com/justin-trudeau-resigning-support-collapsed-2010357 https://www.newsweek.com/justin-trudeau-resigning-support-co...
  • beaned 2y ago
    As someone with no knowledge of the topic, why was electrical reform needed? Wouldn't one assume that either party motivated to do it while in power would be doing it with the goal of positively affecting the outcome for their party in the future? It would seem weird for a candidate to reform how voting works knowing it could negatively affect their side, right?
    • thesh4d0w 2y ago
      We have two left parties that votes are split across, and a single right party. This means the conservative party often ends up getting more power since they're "first past the post" even though the majority of the population may not agree with them.
      • AnimalMuppet 2y ago
        So? "The rules need to be changed because the wrong people keep winning" sounds very suspicious to me. If the situation is as you describe, what really needs to change is that the two left parties need to merge, or one of them needs to become such a marginal player that it doesn't matter. If the leaders of those parties can't or won't do that, well, then you get the situation that you have.
        • dblohm7 2y ago
          > So? "The rules need to be changed because the wrong people keep winning" sounds very suspicious to me. That's not what they're saying. In Canada, we can easily end up with parliamentary majorities for parties that have less than 50% of the popular vote. Sometimes substantially less.
          • AnimalMuppet 2y ago
            No, I got that part. That's true in any first-past-the-post system, and especially true in ones with more than two major parties. (The solution to that would be proportional representation rather than first-past-the-post.) But the complaint seemed to be, not that it kept happening, but that it kept favoring the Conservatives. So, on the one hand, the fact that it keeps favoring one party is an issue. On the other hand, the way the complaint was made makes it sound like it's not coming from a position of objectivity.
  • thijson 2y ago
    I remember when he first ran that was one of his planks.
  • jyscao 2y ago
    > instead you've just handed us to the conservatives I agree that the conservatives are not a good choice, but apparently for the opposite reason as you - the conservatives are unlikely to be able to fix much of the damage Trudeau has inflicted on the country, especially w.r.t. unfettered immigration. The PPC is the only one with any sensible policies IMO, but unfortunately they won't be competitive in the upcoming national election.
    • cassepipe 2y ago
      [flagged]
      • jyscao 2y ago
        You're welcome. And thanks for offering your unasked for and useless input.
  • hmmm-i-wonder 2y ago
    Was it failure to introduce ranked voting, or failure to introduce electoral reform? There was multiple systems being suggested. NDP preferred MMP. Personally I wanted STV, but the Liberal party wanted alternate vote, the system that would benefit them the most. Once they realized public and other party support was for systems other than Alternative Vote they backed out.
  • joshdavham 2y ago
    I wonder if he could still do it last minute. Like could we switch to proportional representation in the last months? It’d be a better system and may even (cynically) help his own party in the next election so there’d be some incentive.
    • cmrdporcupine 2y ago
      They don't want proportional representation. If they did, they would have had it. Trudeau killed the electoral reform committee precisely because the NDP and Bloc insisted the would only accept PR and not Ranked Ballots (Trudeau's preference) and the Conservatives would prefer no change at all. PR would force the Liberals to co-govern in coalition with the NDP basically forever. They don't want it. Their enthusiasm for Ranked Ballots is for the opposite reason: they realize they are the 2nd choice of "most" Canadians (or were until the last few months...). Given that, and the near-extinction event they suffered pre-2015 and the rise of Trudeau II, you can understand why they'd prefer that...
  • cmrdporcupine 2y ago
    People are failing to read between the lines here. Trudeau wanted electoral reform. But only one kind of electoral reform. A ranked ballot system. When he couldn't get that, because the NDP and Bloc said "No F'ing Way" (for reasons I'll get into below), he sabotaged the whole committee and forced it shut. After that he only had minority governments. So there was no way he was going to re-open the issue because he still wouldn't get the result he wanted. Why ranked ballots, and why are the NDP opposed to them? Because in a ranked ballot system the Liberals would be the 2nd choice of the majority of Canadians. It would effectively end the NDP as a viable electoral party. At least that's now the NDP saw it. I think a look at other ranked ballot system countries would definitely provide evidence that it tends to produce two-party system outcomes (see Australia, effectively a two party system) The NDP's preference is for a Mixed Member Proportional system like in Germany. As a partner in a coalition minority gov't with Trudeau there is no way they would have accepted anything else. And key people in the Liberal party will never ever accept such a system, since it would mean governing forever along with the NDP, their ideological opponent (no matter what other people might tell you.) So, yeah, screw Trudeau, and thank god he's gone (he should have resigned after he failed a majority last time around), but I think people need to dig more on this issue and why he might be saying this: He wants "electoral reform" and regrets not getting it, because if they had accomplished what they wanted (ranked ballots), they would probably have a good chance at another election win. Yikes.
• jyscao 2y ago
  Should've done it weeks ago. Utterly shameless.
  • yieldcrv 2y ago
    was anyone trading this on the prediction markets? only checked Polymarket, saw 3, but they didn't look very large could have been a good time!
  • busterarm 2y ago
    Well, I mean he has a history of just burying his head in the sand with every controversy and eventually they all went away after a short time. The strategy clearly worked for him until it didn't.
    • jyscao 2y ago
      Good point.
    • hnthrowaway6543 2y ago
      very true. love him or hate him, Trudeau deserves credit for surviving not just sexual assault allegations, but also the infamous blackface/brownface pictures[0], all during the height of #MeToo and leftist focus on identity politics. he wisely identified that the correct response was no response, except for notably stating that the sexual assault accuser simply "experienced their encounter differently"[1]. a lesser politician would have apologized, a tacit admission of guilt, and been forced to resign. this isn't meant to be snippy or sarcastic, either. he was genuinely excellent at playing the political game and protecting his own career. [0] https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-votes-2019-trudeau-blackface-brownface-cbc-explains-1.5290664 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-votes-2019-trudeau-b... [1] https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/people-experience-things-differently-trudeau-says-of-groping-allegations-1.4003576 https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/people-experience-things-differen...
      • busterarm 2y ago
        Don't leave out the SNC-Lavalin ethics breaches!
• ghaering 2y ago
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  • billfor 2y ago
    Yes it's the first time in a long time that a member of the Castro family has not run a major government.
    • ARandomerDude 2y ago
      These days they apparently spell it Castreau.
      • selimthegrim 2y ago
        I suppose the meme is still going around about Pierre Trudeau being cucked by a certain foreign leader?
        • TMWNN 2y ago
          It's not just a meme. Well, the side-by-side comparison photos of Justin and Fidel are a meme in the widely spread sense. But it is a fact that in April 1971 the Trudeaus were a) in the Caribbean for two weeks and b) did not publish their schedule, including at least one visit to an undisclosed island. Justin was born in December 1971. Add to that c) the remarkably familiar way Fidel, Pierre, and Margaret acted toward each other in Fidel's first official meeting with them in 1976, and d) Justin's remarkably laudatory statement on Fidel's death.
          • Der_Einzige 2y ago
            I will always say that Justin is the best product of the Cuban Revolution!
  • dennis_jeeves2 2y ago
    Well, then you don't know Canadians.
• newfocogi 2y ago
  I hadn't heard that this was likely to happen. Any Canadians here able to weigh on whether this was expected or is a normal procedure for your elected officials?
  • busterarm 2y ago
    All the Canadians that I talk to (including some CBC news employees) have been insistent that this was an eventuality and also that he would drag it out to do it as embarrassingly as possible.
  • darrylb42 2y ago
    Yes, once they can not lead their party effectively they will usually resign. It has been building to this over the last month or so.
  • brianbest101 2y ago
    Yeah, he pretty much had no choice. Most of his party had given him the ultimatum. This has happened a bunch of times outside of the Trudeau Harper Chrétien eras, it’s normal.
  • mlekoszek 2y ago
    Generally, governments in Canada are voted out in roughly 9-year intervals. Trudeau took office in 2015, so nothing unusual there. Moreover, Trudeau is exiting with approval ratings just a percent below his predecessor, Stephen Harper (22% vs. 23%, respectively). So, in a wider sense, this is not so unusual. But we're facing a trade war with the States and less-than-joking threats of annexation, so it's a bad moment to have our leadership in a shakeup.
    • redeux 2y ago
      I haven’t been following the news recently. What is the talk of annexation? First I’ve heard of it.
      • dylan604 2y ago
• dblohm7 2y ago
  This is good news. His government has been dysfunctional for some time now. It's unfortunate that he held on for so long, as we needed a government ready to deal with Trump yesterday.
  • dennis_jeeves2 2y ago
    >been dysfunctional for some time now It was always dysfunctional. It's just that it wasn't noticed early on.
• pluc 2y ago
  Here come the conservatives, again. Canada might not be a two-party system, but you'd never guess looking at the last hundred years.
  • hmmm-i-wonder 2y ago
    Problem with First Past the Post voting systems, we tend to vote "strategically", and since the Alliance and PC's joined early augh's, the Right has been "unified" while the left is still split between the more centrist liberals and left NDP, with a small portion bled off for green's. Would love to see explanations of downvotes since this is factually true...
    • FredPret 2y ago
      First past the post is awesome. I moved from a proportional-representation country to a FPTP one (Canada) and it's so much better to have a specific individual who is my MP. Back where I was born, there's a grey and anonymous party list of people selected by extremely dubious internal party political means. I never felt the slightest bit represented; and the political process was completely opaque. Now I have a dude with a newsletter, an email address, and an office.
      • Ekaros 2y ago
        You can have both. Selected the candidate and proportional presentation. Most popular party candidates get elected.
        • hmmm-i-wonder 2y ago
          Multiple proportional systems don't require lists and provide the best outcome. Comparing FPTP to a worse system and decided FTPT is awesome while ignoring its known and widely discussed flaws surprises me. Its not really open for debate these days although people love to reject reality.
          • 2y ago
• fullshark 2y ago
  That link says he's going to stay on as PM? In the video he says he "intends to resign."
  • MattGaiser 2y ago
    He is going to stay until a new leader is chosen by the Liberal Party of Canada.
    • brianbest101 2y ago
      [dead]
    • SoftTalker 2y ago
      Why not hand over power immediately to the next person in line? Doesn't preclude the party choosing someone else when they get around to it.
      • sharkbot 2y ago
        There is no formal “next in line”. The closest potential successor would have been the deputy prime minister; Chrystia Freeland held that role until a few weeks ago when she dramatically resigned and sparked this chain of events. Currently, this is “Working as Intended” in Canada’s political system.
      • joshlemer 2y ago
        Usually what happens when a party is not in power is that the leader will resign and an interim leader will be appointed until a new leader is elected through a leadership election. When a party is in power however, that interim leader would be an "interim Prime Minister" and is avoided because it's a lot of responsibility to give to an interim with no mandate from voters or the party.
      • zahlman 2y ago
        There is no such thing as a "vice-PM" in Canada. There is no "next person in line", and parties choose leaders more or less independently of the election cycle, according to the party's needs.
• casenmgreen 2y ago
  Best of luck to our Canadian friends.
  • grecy 2y ago
    [flagged]
    • joshdavham 2y ago
      What makes you think that? They don’t seem very similar to me aside from sharing the broad label of ‘conservative’.
      • I-M-S 2y ago
        And love of simplistic slogans. Whether there's more substance to Pierre Poilievre than to Donald Trump remains to be seen.
        • daseiner1 2y ago
          Simplistic slogans win popular elections. So, prudent strategy at least.
      • WorkerBee28474 2y ago
        Because Liberals pretend that anyone they don't like is a mini-Trump to try to scare people into voting Liberal.
      • ozmodiar 2y ago
        To try to expand on this in a constructive way, I think the similarities are that they both pretend to be outsiders while being very connected and powerful and have a worrying amount of disrespectful and vindictive rhetoric and a refusal to engage with the media/intentionally egging on of rage towards the media. That's kind of where it ends though, since I don't think Poilievre has Trump's trademark complete lack of self awareness (I'm not trying to be insulting here, I think it gets him pretty far honestly and has lead to some of his funnier tweets, though I'm not a fan.). Poilievre seems more like a traditional politician trying to ride the populist right wing train, and he's far less charismatic than Trump. Conservatives I know aren't crazy about him, if he weren't up against the even more unpopular Trudeau during the post covid global incumbent purge going on I don't think the election would be nearly as favorable. I am worried, but mostly due to the general state of the world. Also Canada gets most of its media from the states, so right wing Canadians talk like right wing Americans with most of the same talking points. I think they'll always look similar and I can't necessarily blame Poilievre for that even if it does annoy me and he definitely intentionally rides it. It's certainly not going to end with him, and the Libs also like to pretend to be Democrats when it suits them.
• csense 2y ago
  Patio11 has some good coverage of Trudeau's handling of the trucker protest against the government's handling of COVID-19 [1]. Whatever you think of the truckers' position or protest tactics, any punishment for their actions ought to go through the laws and court system. Trudeau instead essentially told the banking system "You can't do business with those people, they're terrorists." Patio11's words of what happened next: "The assistant deputy finance minister...said...'The intent was not to get at the families', and when a democratic government starts a sentence that way something deeply #*&$#ed up has happened." I'm not on the pulse of Canadian politics, so I don't really know what sins or political circumstances have led Trudeau to this point, or if he has any redeeming qualities. Personally, I'm glad to see him gone. [1] https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/debanking-and-debunking/ https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/debanking-and-debunki... (You'll have to Ctrl+F trucker as this blog doesn't seem to have <a name> for headings, as is customary on e.g. Wikipedia.)
  • Cumpiler69 2y ago
    >'The intent was not to get at the families', and when a democratic government starts a sentence that way something deeply #&$#ed up has happened." Wait, are people that shocked that their democratic governments are wiling to act like mobsters/dictators against a minority group just to get their way and appease a majority, when the history books are full of such examples? People must have a short memory then and why history repeating itself is a fact.
    • snakeyjake 2y ago
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      • Cumpiler69 2y ago
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      • grecy 2y ago
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• karaterobot 2y ago
  I'm having trouble learning anything from this stream of disconnected, time-sorted tweetlike objects. I'm posting this on the off chance that a better article exists, and someone can point me to it. I assume it's too early for that though.
  • collin128 2y ago
    I find CTV to be pretty good and centered: https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/justin-trudeau-stepping-down-as-liberal-leader-to-stay-on-as-pm-for-now-1.7165612 https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/justin-trudeau-stepping-down...
    • karaterobot 2y ago
      Much better, thank you.
  • syndicatedjelly 2y ago
    The goal isn't to learn, it's to be entertained
    • s1artibartfast 2y ago
      the goal isn't even to entertain. It is to spend time on a page. It doesn't matter if you are frustrated, angry, or confused. just keep scrolling
      • cwillu 2y ago
        The CBC doesn't have remotely the same pressure to expose eyeballs to advertising.
        • s1artibartfast 2y ago
          the link wasn't to CBC when I posted, but I'm sure they have OKMs about clicks and time on page.
  • 2y ago
• TaurenHunter 2y ago
  For liberals to give up power in both Canada and US so hurriedly, there must something really bad brewing that they don't want to be blamed for.
  • dralley 2y ago
    Trudeau has been unpopular for years and hideously unpopular for the past couple of months, mostly as a result of the current state of things being bad (and as they've been in power for nearly 10 years, they already cop the blame for that), not hypothetical future bad things. No need to get conspiratorial.
    • TaurenHunter 2y ago
      It wouldn't be a conspiracy, just strategic thinking. It wouldn't be the first time in history where one party/group/individual decides to relinquish power anticipating some crisis: - Sulla was a dictator who retired before the collapse of the Roman republic. - The British handed over power to India before the communal violence escalated. - Nixon resigned to avoid the spectacle of impeachment. Someone in power may be able to better see some things inevitably coming and bail out sooner to avoid the worse. You said Trudeau was unpopular for years and yet only now he's leaving.
      • dralley 2y ago
        >You said Trudeau was unpopular for years and yet only now he's leaving. There's unpopular and then there's unpopular. His approval rating has dropped off a cliff over the past year. His cabinet ministers have been resigning and/or openly criticizing him / asking for him to step down to save their own political careers. This article is from last September - 4 months ago. >> Darrell Bricker, a political scientist and pollster with Ipsos, compared the current moment in Canadian politics to this summer’s historic defeat of the UK Tories, who lost 251 seats in British parliament. >>“It’s basically over,” said Mr Bricker of Trudeau’s government in an interview with the BBC. >>“All that is happening is sands sliding out of the sand dial, and we’re working our way towards an inevitable conclusion.” https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjrdrnxp74wo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjrdrnxp74wo And then this article is from October: >>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau of Canada faced the stiffest challenge to his leadership from fellow elected Liberal Party members on Wednesday during a closed-door meeting where he was urged to resign to avoid torpedoing the party’s chances in the next election. >>For more than a year, the Liberals under Mr. Trudeau have trailed the Conservative Party by double digits in polls, suggesting that the Liberal Party could face a crushing defeat in the next election, which must be held by next October. >>Panic within the party intensified after the Liberals recently lost two special parliamentary elections in districts that had been considered their strongholds. >>The growing dissatisfaction played out on Wednesday, when most of the 153 Liberal members of Parliament gathered in Ottawa for a scheduled caucus meeting. >>While caucus proceedings are typically secret, Mr. Trudeau, according to Canadian news media citing unnamed sources, was presented with a letter signed by about two dozen caucus members calling on him to step down. >>The letter has been circulating for several days, but has been a closely held secret. >>About 20 Liberal members criticized Mr. Trudeau’s leadership after the letter was read aloud during the three-hour-and-17-minute meeting, according to Canadian news outlets. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/23/world/canada/trudeau-voters-liberal-party.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/23/world/canada/trudeau-vote... Why do you insist that having a 23% approval rating and half of your party begging you to resign isn't a good enough reason? Seriously, if you're not familiar with the internal politics of another country, why would you make up conspiracies about them?
• nemo44x 2y ago
  Is Canada better today then when he started as PM? I struggle to agree that it is. Housing is as bad as it has ever been and the immigration decisions seem to have been so careless that even people that would agree with immigration as a general principal are horrified by it by and large. The Canadian dollar has collapsed VS the USD. I guess it always ends bad if you stick around long enough.
  • jyscao 2y ago
    > Is Canada better today then when he started as PM? As you've already concluded, the answer is absolutely not. The Canada I grew up with, and mind you my family are immigrants from the 90s and early 2000s ourselves, is completely shattered.
    • Cumpiler69 2y ago
      >The Canada I grew up with [...] is completely shattered. What happened?
      • jyscao 2y ago
        One could endlessly go on about the economy/COL, immigration, crumbling healthcare, housing crisis, far-left ideology going mainstream, etc. But I could frame it much simpler than that - Canada, at least in cities of modest sizes and up, is rapidly transitioning from a high-trust to a low-trust society. An anecdote: my sister is more than 10 years younger than me, she's currently attending the same university as I did over a decade ago; in the span of less than half a year, she's got 2 bikes stolen - her original bike with front wheel removed to bypass the lock in late summer 2024, then the entire lock cut to steal her replacement bike in December; this would be inconceivable to me during my time living in the same town.
        • pixxel 2y ago
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        • squigz 2y ago
• yieldcrv 2y ago
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  • mass_and_energy 2y ago
    I mean... The gold rush ended about 200 years ago but if you really think Dawson City is worth fighting NATO for, then I suppose that's a choice you can make.
    • yieldcrv 2y ago
      your first instinct was a military operation? the US has acquired territories before from a couple people in those territories realizing it was a magical way for unrelated tariffs to disappear. history gives you the blueprint, the writing is on the wall
  • blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
    Honestly, Canada merging with the US would not be a bad thing. There are articles discussing Canada joining the EU. What’s the difference between being a state within the US and a country that is basically a state, within the EU? A lot of Canada - especially outside of certain cities like Vancouver - share foundational values with the US much more so than the EU.
• busterarm 2y ago
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  • catgary 2y ago
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    • busterarm 2y ago
      All 20? Also, is this like when the FBI discovers a plot to kidnap a Governor and half of the conspirators are paid FBI informants?
    • mardifoufs 2y ago
      And those weren't the people that got their rights suspended by emergency powers, so what's your point? According to that logic, the protestors during the Oka Crisis should've just been arrested, stripped of their rights and treated like non citizens since they were armed and threatened the police. Yet a better government back then realized that you can't just use emergency powers for every inconvenience, and didn't use them. They instead talked and engaged in discussions with them, which resolved the Oka Crisis peacefully.
      • colinb 2y ago
        > peacefully Well, apart from the fighting and that young woman who was bayoneted while carrying her infant sister. I’m not here to carry water for the asshat truckers, and I don’t understand the Canadian constitution or legal system, but the Oka Crisis was resolved with enough brutality for at least one crow pie.
        • mardifoufs 2y ago
          Ok, I agree to be honest. I shouldn't have said peacefully, but rather without the emergency powers hammer. In fact, the federal government tried appeasement whereas the provincial government was more brutal.
    • 2y ago
• 0xbadc0de5 2y ago
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  • whalesalad 2y ago
    Is there an ELI5 that explains all of this from a-z? As an outsider I can't help but think people are being hyperbolic about it.
    • toasteros 2y ago
      No, because Canada is not "ruined" or "damaged". The ONE dreadful thing the Liberals did was to renege on their promise of electoral reform. All Westminster-style Parliaments are done a disservice by using First-past-the-post. Trudeau campaigned on replacing the system with proportional representation, but incumbents in Westminster governments will never change the system that made them win. Most people turn to the Carbon Tax as an example, but the Carbon Tax is implemented in such a way that the average family receives MORE in quarterly rebates than what they PAY in Carbon taxes; it's only those with very high incomes who come close to losing money from the tax[1]. Then they'll point to the pandemic and tell you that the worst thing we've ever done as a nation is ask people to get vaccinated and wear a mask during a time where a (not actually) unprecedented virus was rampant. And somehow the virus is the incumbent's fault. After that you'll be told that healthcare is crumbling under Trudeau. Healthcare in Canada is a provincial responsibility, and the vast majority of provinces (eg Alberta) are run by right-wing governments looking to profit from private healthcare, so are employing a starve-the-beast strategy to make private healthcare look attractive. And then some particularly weird people will tell you he isn't tough enough on trans people. [1]: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/axe-the-tax-and-carbon-rebate-how-canada-households-affected-1.7046905 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/axe-the-tax-and-carbo...
      • Dakizhu 2y ago
        What’s dreadful is the rising cost of living and lack of affordable housing, which he failed to address. Moreover he doubled immigration during a time when the average Canadian was struggling to keep up with rising expenses. I’m pro-immigration but not at an unsustainable rate. Housing construction was not keeping up. Trudeau pushed beyond the limits of pro-immigration policy. If it was just conservative propaganda, the liberals wouldn’t be looking at a potentially historic election loss based on current polling. That said, I don’t think conservatives will fix anything.
• _blz2 2y ago
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• blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
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  • AnarchismIsCool 2y ago
    Constitutionalism is whatever, but it is interesting how much more dogmatically divided Canada seems to be getting under the decidedly more authoritarian administration of Trudeau. Everyone's worried about violence and terrorism but terrorists are a, semantically, political construct and a product of authoritarianism and inequality. I wonder what this says about where the US is headed..........
  • segasaturn 2y ago
    > Trudeau has also been friendly - and perhaps even submissive - to Xi Jinping Gonna need to see a source on that. Canada even arrested Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou on behalf of the US on some made-up sanctions charges so that America could pressure the Chinese government in their trade war. The other part about Khalistan is a talking point from Modi's India, which has been busted for conducting assassinations against Khalistani activists in Canada and the US.
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• interestica 2y ago
  He has not (yet) resigned. He has announced his intention to resign. He will step down when a new leader is selected via the internal Liberal leadership race. Additionally, Parliament is prorogued until March 24 via his request of the Governor-General. “Trudeau to resign as prime minister after Liberal leadership race” https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-news-conference-1.7423680 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-news-conference-1.7...
  • ygjb 2y ago
    True, but this is normal; two other Prime Ministers have taken this approach over the last 30 years, Brian Mulroney and Jean Chretien both announced their intention to resign, and then held leadership conventions to select a new party leader before actually resigning.
    • interestica 2y ago
      I was clarifying since the original headline (‘Trudeau resigns’) would be misleading to many and especially to an international audience with different types of leadership (eg a president) - especially since the original source for this was the British broadcaster. While it’s not the norm, he would still have the ability to resign immediately and have someone act in the interim (unless I’m mistaken) until the new leader is selected or force a new election. (The new link and headline are now accurate and reflect the actual situation.)
  • RONROC 2y ago
    [flagged]
    • VerminOctopus1 2y ago
      [flagged]
      • cryptonector 2y ago
        He could also have resigned immediately. He could also have called early elections. There are several ways the Canadian process works.
• TriangleEdge 2y ago
  I have migrated from Canada to the USA and my metrics for wealth, ease of mind, actually working while at work, outgoingness, etc instantly improved. I don't plan on ever going back. I feel chagrin at seeing Canada fail. I'm glad to see Justin Trudeau pressured out, I know there won't be meaningful change associated with the decision, but I have hope.
  • sangnoir 2y ago
    The USA is great when you're working age and are healthy. Outside the 18-65 age range, not so much. I hope Canada will not morph into USA-lite.
    • _DeadFred_ 2y ago
      Or if you have older family members you care about. Or if you don't want your children having to practice 'active shooter' drills during their school days.
      • avgDev 2y ago
        My toddler had active shooter drills in day care.....I sometimes think about leaving US.
        • objektif 2y ago
          Many of my friends are also thinking of just leaving to Europe. This whole thing about running after more and more money may just not be worth it at the end.
          • matwood 2y ago
            Nowhere is perfect, but I see many places in the EU as a great lifestyle arbitrage. If someone made or can continue to make US level money while living in the EU, that's a great situation. Depending on the country, visas can be challenging, but most HN skillsets will qualify for digital nomad visas. We bought a place 2 years ago and are in the process of fixing up (it was used as a vacation home).
• Tiktaalik 2y ago
  I never voted for Justin Trudeau and don't like him, but despite all the angry rhetoric right now in the long term I think he will be considered by history to be one of the better Canadian PMs. Amongst the Canadian PMs I've experienced, Chretien, Martin, Harper, Trudeau made the most impactful and positive policy changes (eg. legal cannabis, childcare) while navigating the country through the challenges of covid and Trump NAFTA renegotiations. The negatives of his term are recent and largely tied to global issues being faced by many countries right now (eg. inflation) and so I expect future historians to hand wave these away.
  • 3vidence 2y ago
    There is absolutely no way he will be looked at as one of the better Canadian PMs.. By all accounts he will be looked at as one of the worst considering the position Canada was in at the start and end of his government. Inflation, unemployment, housing, homelessness, healthcare, crime, national unity, the overall economy. .. Just all of these things are significantly worse than 2015. With that being said I do think cannabis + child care were both wins... but like at what cost. Also feels like with cannabis all of society was already trending there seemed like a very easy win. Then with childcare it is a win but it is also complicated as many daycares have unenrolled from the program because it doesn't cover enough of the cost.
    • notevenremotely 2y ago
      Half of those issues are provincial. Canadian politics is the Spiderman meme with local, provincial and federal governments all pointing their fingers at each other. If healthcare in your province sucks blame your Premier.
      • joshlemer 2y ago
        It's more complicated than that. Technically healthcare is a provincial responsibility in the constitution but the feds bought their way into healthcare and regulate it through the Canada Health Act. The Feds cannot legally compel provinces to comply with the CHA but if they don't comply with it, they won't receive the federal health transfers which would essentially bankrupt the province. The province would still be getting taxed at the high federal rates, but without getting it back, to the tune of ~12% of total Provincial revenues. Coming at it from a separate angle, it would be quite a coincidence if it just so happened that every single province in the country, over decades, has had their healthcare systems failing in basically the same way with the same problems for end users, despite having totally different geographies, economies, even languages, run by all kinds of different provincial parties across the extremes of the political spectrum. The parsimonious explanation is that there's a systematic issue in Canadian Healthcare as it's defined or operates across the country.
• RegnisGnaw 2y ago
  One of my big issues with J.T. is his massive waste of money on gun control. The vast majority of guns used in crimes in Canada are illegal guns from the US, with most being hand guns. The Liberals under J.T. has proposed a ban on assault style weapons (not assault weapons, mind you which are already banned) that so far has cost over $70M without guns being collected. The estimate cost is over $800M to collect them. The last time we had a gun control fantasy was also under the Liberals. They proposed a long gun registry that they estimated would cost $2M a year. By the time it was cancelled 20 years later, the total cost was over $2B.
  • ternnoburn 2y ago
    This is one area leftists and right wingers can agree on -- gun control doesn't work, it punishes minority communities, it targets the wrong things, and it's written in ways that aren't backed by data. Leftists want to be armed for community defense (and because Marx and other leftist writers wrote about the importance of being armed). That said, if I show up at the range with a pride flag on my rifle people lose their shit about it, so I guess we have a ways to go before we've got left-right solidarity there.
    • squigz 2y ago
      There is something incredibly amusing to me about hearing Karl Marx described as a "leftist writer"
      • ternnoburn 2y ago
        Is he not?
    • RegnisGnaw 2y ago
      I forgot to mention, but the 'assault style weapons' are legal currently. All of the owners have proper licenses, have background checks, and are registered with the government.
• gpi 2y ago
  I was expecting this to be a Beaverton article.
• ciconia 2y ago
  Is it just me or is the quality of politicians on a downward spiral? Between retirement-age out-of-touch boomers, clueless good-looking male liberals and corrupt authoritarian plutocrats, it sure feels like there's a shortage of honest hard-working people in leadership positions. I mean it is kinda obvious that the system in western democracies is structurally flawed such that there's a selection bias for crooks and incompetent assholes (lobbying, i.e. legalized bribery), but still, how come the bad guys always seem to win? Or is this just a symptom of a deeper malady of modern society?
  • adverbly 2y ago
    Not just you. And to answer your question, I don't think it's politicians but the entire way that society disagrees and discusses important topics. I've been working on a side project over the holidays related to this, but nothing to share yet unfortunately. Suffice to say, I would love it if we could frame discussions around specific policy issues, and focus on listening to one another and prioritizing and agreeing on problems as a first step before jumping straight into political rhetoric and speaking only to one's own base or those who already agree with you. Also somewhat related - the history of decline of political discourse is staggering. Apparently in the US, Abraham Lincoln used to debate by having 90 minutes of uninterrupted complex analysis. This has been replaced by modern debate formats like those popularized by the Jubilee YouTube channel which optimize for 10 second clips. Interestingly, there is a counter movement where long-form interviews are becoming popular again among niche crowds who actually want to hear and discuss issues. Joe Rogan, Jordan Peterson, Lex Friedman, Sam Harris, Destiny to name a few. I don't think we've seen the end of the changes for these discussion mediums. Hopefully we'll see changes for the better!
    • zahlman 2y ago
      >I've been working on a side project over the holidays related to this, but nothing to share yet unfortunately. What kind of project? >Interestingly, there is a counter movement where long-form interviews are becoming popular again among niche crowds who actually want to hear and discuss issues Indeed. Personally, I wish we could have that kind of content, but edited to remove the filler (redundancy, time spent reasoning out a position) while still accurately representing nuanced views and the evidence for them.
• imzadi 2y ago
  It's worth keeping in mind that truck strikes have been used to disrupt infrastructure to prepare for coups.
• jmyeet 2y ago
  Nothing will change because no Canadian government will lower house prices and that's what absolutely needs to happen. 2024 was a banner year for voting against the incumbent governments worldwide. Globally we have a cost-of-living crisis, a housing affordability crisis and a years-long decrease in the standard-of-living. Generally speaking, each country has 3 forces that are in play: 1. Progressives; 2. Neoliberals / centrists; and 3. Outright fascists. The French election was a prime example of how this plyas out. Macron, a centrist, very much sided with the fascists rather than the progressives, such as who he picked to be Prime Minister after the snap election he called. Some say the UK is an outlier with Labor winning a massive victory. It is not. The former Labor leader, Jeremy Corbyn, was weakened by a divided electorate so he could be character-assassinated in a coordinated campaign alleging anti-semitism to be replaced by a neoliberal centrist (Keir Starmer). Starmer actually got significantly fewer votes than Corbyn did in his two elections. All that happened was the right-wing vote got split between Conservatives and Reform. The US election played out similarly. Despite evidence of Biden's cognitive decline being apparent as early as of Spring 2021, he ran for reelection and was supported by the Democratic establishment right up until a disastrous debate performance made clear his position was untenable. Nancy Pelosi reportedly wanted an open primary at the convention. Instead Kamala Harris was anointed as the Democratic establishment feared a progressive candidate would win a primary. So we got a Wall Street approved centrist neoliberal platform that disrupted nothing and gave absolutely nothing to working people and had a policy platform on many issues (eg the death penalty, Israel-Palestine, immigration, deregulation) with almost no daylight between it and the Trump platform. Unsurprisingly that platform lost, badly. Predictably. The point here is that in every election, neoliberals are way more comfortable with (and will side with) fascists than leftists or pgoressives. Voters, eager for change, will choose populism because they aren't being offered any alternative. But nobody wants to address the root causes here: housing unaffordability and massive wealthy inequality. Too many people are invested in their house as an investment, as their nest-egg. House prices absolutely have to come down and nobody wants to hear that. Canada is a real estate bubble, just like pretty much every other Western nation. People will cling to their house prices as society crumbles around them.
  • AlexandrB 2y ago
    > 3. Outright fascists. You say this like it's a given, but I'm not so sure anymore. The word fascist has lost most of its meaning by being applied to everyone from Donald Trump to J. K. Rowling. Can you explain specifically what you mean by this?
• jlos 2y ago
  As a close watcher of Canadian politics, here's the best summary I can offer for those not familiar: Overal Picture Canada has seen gdp-per-capita decline for nearly every quarter over the past 3 years. Large stimulus spending during the pandemic fueled the housing crisis and added massive inflation. Stimulating the economy through similarly massive increases in Non-Permanent Residents has kept GDP afloat, but come at the cost of over-burdening public institutions and housing. Contiuing either policy is not possible and deeply unpopular. Canadians now pay more taxes than any US state, have housing more expensive than New York, but with productivity below that of the poorest state and our dollar running a major discount. This while our public instutions are struggling to meet demand. 1. Recurring themes in Canadian Politics 2. Recent history of the federal liberals 3. Current issues facing the government Recurring Themes in Canadian Politics - Unlike the U.S. where there are multiple strong centers of politics and commerce (East Cost, West Coast, Texas), Canada political power is centered largely along the St. Lawrence River where most of the country's population lives. - Trends arising from this include: Quebec receiving, relative to its population, outsized benefits and influence in exchange for remaining part of the country and as result of French speaking requirements for the federal government. Quebec has nearly exited the country several times - Canada is still largely a resource-based economy and possess an impressive amount of natural resources: oil, natural gas, largest uranium reserves in the world, more freshwater than all other countries combined, etc. - The concentration of power in the East while most resource development happening in the West, creates a quasi-colonial between the Ontario/Quebec and the younger and resource heavy provinces, particularly the Prairies. - Economically, Canada priviledges large incumbent businesses and most of its sectors are oligopolies. The reasoning for doing so historically has been to fend of larger, well funded US competitors. Recent History of the federal liberals - Liberals have historically have been centrist party, taking popular ideas from both socialist NDP (who have yet to win a federal election) and the federal Conservative party (itself a coaltion of social and fiscal conservatives created by Harper in the 90s). - 2015 Justin Trudeau came in as the most popular Prime Minister in history with a majority government. Major legislation included legalizing weed and improvements to Child Benefits. The majority was lost in 2019 with Conservatives gaining the popular vote. Overall Picture - In Detail - Economic Issue #1: Lagging economy. Canada is still largely a resource based economy (see above) and business investment in that sector, and Canada overall, declined drastically starting in 2015, arguably due to increasing opportunities for resource development in the U.S. and the Canadian Federal Government stance towards non-reweables. Business investment is more a leading indicator, but still a major economic issue for Canada. - Economic Issue #2: Increased cost of housing. Canadian housing costs in major cities has reached crisis levels even leading up to the pandemic. Our major cities like Toronto and Vancouver are some of the most unaffordable in the world. Most people who have been in Canada have seen housing in their cities go from achieveable-if-expensive (in major regions) to impossibly unaffordable. Most major cities now require 30+ of saving (at the average income) for a downpayment with a salary in the top 1% to purchase a home. - Economic issue #3: Large inflation, combined with increased costs from consolidated markets with little competition. Not unlike other countries post-pandemic, but reports show major costs of living such as groceries have seen above-inflation levels of price increases due to industry consolidation. I.E. Many parts of Canada have one 2 major suppliers of grociers - Immigration Issue #1: Non-permanent Residents. Canada has 2 classes of immigrants (aside from Refugees, whih make up a small number): Permanent Residents (PR's) and Non-permanent residents (NPR's). Our PR system is what is widely hailed as one of the best in the world and a point of Canadian pride. The NPR system has been substantially expanded under the Trudeau government and arguably exploited with millions of NPR's entering as temporary workers and university students. NPR's now consist of over 7% of the population (larger than then Indigenous population). - Social Cohesion: most of Canada's public services (healthcare, teaching, even postal services, etc) have seen substantial degradation and a struggle to meet capacity. - Lastly, it should be noted that Canada has tax system well above any US state. Historically, most Canadians have not have a problem with this because of the relative strength of our public institutions. Current Issues facing the Goverment - If the federal liberals have an election, they will lost most of their seats. They may even lose party status. They will likely avoid this at all costs. - The federal NDP are not projected to lose seats, but will lose influence they gain by upholding the minority government. They gain little from a federal election. - Given an early election is not likely and Trudeau is facing revolts internally (his key finance minister and deputy PM resigned publicly in the past few weeks), the choice is to stop parliment while they look for a new PM (trudeau may act as the interim). If they choose an existing MP for PM (maybe Freeland) they risk being associated with a deeply unpopular party. If they chose an outsider (like Mark Carney), they risk just as much backlash for an unelected PM.
• mike_hearn 2y ago
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  • marketerinland 2y ago
    [flagged]
    • mike_hearn 2y ago
      [flagged]
      • pachorizons 2y ago
        If you read all the papers then why is this not sourced?
        • cempaka 2y ago
          Not going to go and try to unearth it right now but everything he is saying about the figures coming out of England & Scotland is absolutely true, I saw it laid out on Twitter with links to the primary sources in real time.
        • plasticchris 2y ago
          The data set seems to be here: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsbyvaccinationstatusengland https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsde... Not sure what it implies, but there it is.
        • mike_hearn 2y ago
          I did source it, I just didn't provide links this time. Go dig out the old UK or danish reports or discussions of them from the time. No links this time because I've posted on this topic dozens of times in the past over the years and was away from my bookmarks list at the time anyway. It didn't stop people flagging posts. They just pick fights with the sources or start making arguments long since resolved. There are whole websites devoted to explaining various aspects of what happened, look for Prof Norman Fenton's blog for an example if you want to get started.
• type0 2y ago
  [flagged]
• btbuildem 2y ago
  [flagged]
  • bryanlarsen 2y ago
    Why did you even click through? The title made it very clear this discussion was political. 29/30 of the stories on the HN front page are technical, click on those instead.
  • rsanek 2y ago
    > Please don't complain that a submission is inappropriate. If a story is spam or off-topic, flag it. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    • celdon25 2y ago
      same applies to comments
  • deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  • dang 2y ago
    You might want to take a look at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42614703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42614703, which I posted earlier today, answering a somewhat similar question.
    • btbuildem 2y ago
      Thanks for keeping the site what it is. Can't be easy work.
• SpecialistK 2y ago
  So it's all going down now eh? For those not on the pulse of CdnPoli, this is a primer I wrote a few weeks ago but is still widely relevant: What we've been watching for the last 18 months has been the slow collapse of the governing Liberal Party, led by Justin Trudeau (LPC) - Polling and projections have been turning heavily against the LPC since last summer (2023), and the internal party cracks started showing after a by-election (special election, to fill an empty seat) loss in Toronto this summer and then one in Montreal not long after. Both Toronto and Montreal are considered the LPC's "heartland" and losses there suggest that the polls are correct in predicting a huge defeat for the LPC in a general election. A few Members of Parliament (MPs) began pressuring Trudeau to step down as party leader (and therefore Prime Minister (PM)) and some announced that they would not run again. At time of writing, a third by-election has just been lost by the Liberals. The next Canadian general election must be held no later than October 2025. That is because the last election was in late 2021. That 2021 election led to a "minority government" in which the Liberal Party won the most individual seats (districts, ridings, constituencies, etc.) but not more than half of them. As a Westminster Parliament with plurality voting (First Past the Post, winner-takes-all) coalitions are not common in Canada, and the minority government usually operates on a vote-by-vote basis with other parties, while allowing their party to form the government. Some votes, notably ones about the budget, are called "confidence votes" and if one fails, the government has "lost the confidence of the House of Commons" and must either call an election or allow opposition parties to try to gain the confidence of the house and form a new government. Minority governments do not usually last the full length before another general election must be called by law. This one has lasted longer than average because the LPC signed an agreement with a smaller party called the NDP. The NDP demanded some new welfare policies such as subsidized dental care and some medications and in return would support the LPC in confidence votes. The NDP's leader, Jagmeet Singh, announced this fall that he was ending the agreement with the LPC and would only support the government on a case-by-case basis. This is likely to save some of his party's own polling numbers, as they have also faltered (the junior party in coalitions or similar situations almost always fall more than the senior party, worldwide) but do result in the NDP looking weak as they heavily criticize the LPC government yet vote to keep it governing the country. The NDP do not want an election right now for several reasons: their own polling numbers are not good, they can squeeze more out of a minority LPC than the Conservatives who are strong favourites to win the next election (we'll get to them, don't worry), the party machine is short on money (they recently spent a lot of their funds on a close provincial election in British Columbia) and possibly because Singh wants to ensure himself and a few of his MPs have been elected long enough to meet the minimum requirement for a government pension. This last point has been heavily debated and used in Conservative attack ads, so make of it what you will. So, what are Canadians unhappy about? The biggest item is cost of living - most things boil down to how much it costs for a roof over your head and food in your fridge. Housing costs have been astronomical in Vancouver and Toronto for decades, but have been rapidly increasing across the country. Another is immigration - like many countries, Canada's population is aging and there has long been a cross-partisan consensus that immigration is a great way to counter this. But since the pandemic the LPC increased immigration levels massively, especially in 2 sectors: student visas which were being taken advantage of by "diploma mill" shoddy private colleges that promised immigrants a pathway to residence, and low-skill temporary foreign workers (TFWs) who are employed in fast food or other entry-level positions. Not only has this put much more strain on the housing supply in major urban areas like Toronto or Vancouver, but it also brings down wages and facilitates abuse of these unfortunate people who just want to build a better life for themselves and their family. The LPC has also faced a lot of scandals. Every government is corrupt and has scandals, but there have been a lot from this government: from SNC-Lavalin and WE Charity earlier, to ArriveCAN and a cabinet minster lying about indigenous heritage to win government contracts more recently. As in the US, opioids have been devastating to Canadians, with tent encampments and overdose deaths no longer limited to just Vancouver's infamous Downtown Eastside. Police departments complain that the justice system is not responding well to repeat offenders either due to bail reforms or bleeding-heart judges. Finally there's the anti-incumbent bias we've seen in elections worldwide throughout 2024 and the Canadian trend of voting out a government after around a decade in power. So let's get into who are likely to come next - the Conservative Party of Canada (CPC), led by Pierre Polievre since 2022. The CPC was last in power under Stephen Harper from 2006-2015 and has a lot of support in the western provinces of Canada, plus competes with the LPC and NDP in the suburbs of major cities. Polievre is a pugilistic career politician who has very successfully channelled the anger Canadians are feeling into a commanding polling lead. Polievre has been called a populist because he has levied much more criticism of the LPC government than policy suggestions, and for his schtick of reducing issues into "verb the noun" such as "axe the [carbon] tax", "build the homes" and "end the crime." But listening to his earlier speeches in Parliament suggest that Polievre is much more of a policy "wonk" than his current campaigning suggests. When Parliament returns in March with a new Liberal Party leader (and Prime Minister), it is almost certain to be defeated immediately and an election will be called.
• dfdx 2y ago
  A friend of mine recently finished his engineering PhD at the University of Toronto. He received employment offers from an American firm and a Canadian firm. The Canadian firm offered a total compensation package worth 80,000 CAD (~55,000 USD); the American firm offered him nearly 275,000 USD.
  • amarka 2y ago
    I can’t believe Justin Trudeau would lowball your friend like that.
    • somedude895 2y ago
      [flagged]
    • wg0 2y ago
      ROLF
      • HaZeust 2y ago
        Rolling on laughing floor
        • amarka 2y ago
          They are indeed some of the best floors to roll on.
    • cmrdporcupine 2y ago
      I hate the F Trudeau crowd almost as much as I hate Trudeau, but Low compensation ranges here are in fact in part the fault of fed gov't policy. Industry freaked out about "labour shortage" and the government responded. The database of LMIA (Labour Market Impact Assessment) applications is public. You can see for yourself how many thousands of software engineering jobs were filled this way. (Including by big "elite" tech companies like Apple, Google, Amazon, etc.) This was deliberate policy to bring in foreign talent from India, China, etc. in order to fill a "shortage" of us, which well, that shortage was less about "can't find someone" as "I can't find someone cheap enough." In this case I don't actually blame Trudeau or the libs -- they're on the whole too stupid about our sector to understand that in fact these low compensation ranges harm our industry more than they help. I blame corporate interests who have the ear of the gov't and misled them into thinking that somehow this would make Canada "competitive" in information tech. All it does is force good talent to leave the country, and encourage sweat shops to open up offering mediocre "IT" services. We're subsidizing our own Canadian students to go through great schools like U Waterloo, etc. and then losing most of them the moment they graduate, as they go to the US on a TN1. And in exchange... I've been in this industry long enough (25 years) to have seen things go up and down relative to the US a few times. This is the worst it's ever been. Especially because you can no longer make the argument that "I may get paid less but it costs less to live here" -- that ship sailed 10 years ago.
• reverendsteveii 2y ago
  Is it me or does it seem like the internet era has taken away incumbent advantage and actually put incumbents at a massive disadvantage? I'm not here to attack or defend what Trudeau has actually done, only to posit the idea that once you become a leader in the political landscape there is a very effective machine whose only job is to attack you, personally, as much as possible anywhere you're perceived to be vulnerable. If you've followed US politics for the last decade the perfect example of this is "tan suit".
  • dfxm12 2y ago
    The machine isn't against the incumbent, it wants to move things to the right. This is why Obama gets mainstream media outrage for superficial things like wearing a tan suit. Also it is why Biden (correctly) got a lot of negative coverage for being too old to serve but people like Trump or Kay Ivey relatively get a pass.
    • armchairhacker 2y ago
      The right also had incumbent disadvantage this year. See: - Britain's Tory defeat. - India's and Hungary's main party still winning, but by less than expected. India's main party no longer holds a majority in Parliament. - In South Korea, the liberal opposition has won the majority of seats in the National Assembly. Even in developing countries, incumbent disadvantage is almost everywhere. Look at the map in https://abcnews.go.com/538/democrats-incumbent-parties-lost-elections-world/story?id=115972068 https://abcnews.go.com/538/democrats-incumbent-parties-lost-.... And in a couple examples where the majority gained (Mexico, Dominican Republic, Moldova) they are the left.
  • rossdavidh 2y ago
    It's an interesting theory, but there are other hypotheses out there. One I've heard a lot is that the post-pandemic inflation surge hit everyone, and made all incumbents unpopular. I suppose that if the anti-incumbent results across the globe continue for several more years, we will be able to rule that out?
    • 2y ago
• dismalaf 2y ago
  If people can't understand why this is happening, understand that Trudeau has been in power for 9 years and basically everything is worse than when he started. And if you want to say, "Blah blah it's happening in other countries", don't bother. We're becoming poorer when compared to all our peer countries. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-gdp-per-capita-rich-1.7318989 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-gdp-per-capita-rich-... https://economics.td.com/ca-productivity-bad-to-worse https://economics.td.com/ca-productivity-bad-to-worse https://financialpost.com/opinion/justin-trudeau-legacy-could-be-poorer-canada https://financialpost.com/opinion/justin-trudeau-legacy-coul...
• dang 2y ago
  We changed the URL from https://www.bbc.com/news/live/clyjmy7vl64t https://www.bbc.com/news/live/clyjmy7vl64t. Interested readers might want to look at both.
  • HaZeust 2y ago
    Can you please add this to your pinned top comment? This was incredibly hard to find as a comment, and a BBC bearing is actually pretty important to this topic.
    • dang 2y ago
      Ok, done.
      • HaZeust 2y ago
        Cheers!
• CrzyLngPwd 2y ago
  The Zelensky curse strikes again.
  • CrzyLngPwd 2y ago
    Why the downvotes, it is perfectly true, lol.
• dang 2y ago
  All: if you're going to post in this thread, please make sure you're up-to-date on the site guidelines and that you're following them: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. That means erring on the side of following them, since they're easy to break unintentionally. Quite a few accounts who have been here for many years have been breaking the guidelines rather shamefully in this thread. That's dismaying. If established users can't set a good example for others, what chance does this community have? If Hacker News is interesting enough to keep coming back to for years, you owe it to your fellow members not to contribute to destroying it. p.s. We changed the URL from https://www.bbc.com/news/live/clyjmy7vl64t https://www.bbc.com/news/live/clyjmy7vl64t. Interested readers might want to look at both.
• eruci 2y ago
  We should have been given the choice to properly send him off in a general election.
  • cmrdporcupine 2y ago
    We kind of did, twice, and he failed to get the message. It has been, in the past customary for leaders of parties that fail to win a majority (after being in a minority) mandate to resign. That Trudeau a) called the last election at all and b) failed to resign after getting the same result as when they entered into it... is frustrating. It certainly created an appearance of weakness that I suspect fed into the situation with the convoy. Also probably tactically stupid, because he got to hold the blame for all the post-COVID problems.
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• spot13 2y ago
  This thread should be locked. It's unbelievable the BS being spewed by all sides of the political spectrum. Ultimately, the Canadian democracy has wanted a new prime minister for years and it's abhorrent it has (and is) taking this long to let the citizens vote.
  • btbuildem 2y ago
    I got downvoted to hell for suggesting these posts be removed altogether. They contribute nothing of value here.
• thunkingdeep 2y ago
  [flagged]
• TTTCOTTH 2y ago
  [flagged]
• TTTCOTTH 2y ago
  [flagged]
• nikolay 2y ago
  [flagged]
• canucker2016 2y ago
  This video is why Canada is different from the USA. The prime minister and other politicians will interact with comedians. see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ns7EsDVNwA&t=262s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ns7EsDVNwA&t=262s for a view that every Canadian knew was coming since last summer.
• CHB0403085482 2y ago
  Is Canada a better place today?
• bobheadmaker 2y ago
  I hope Canada gets some strong leader now that Trudeau is out!
• arajnoha 2y ago
  Isn't it off-topic? Or am I missing the relevance here?
• usixk 2y ago
  Current canuck here. Since Trudeau has been elected the likelihood of purchasing a home or finding a job has drastically reduced and continues to fall. Rising tides raise all boats, given that the rent has risen everywhere too. This creates a divide between the have and have-nots of property ownership and public or private employment. This divides ends in the individuals who have are happy since their investment skyrocketed while the have-nots are left with no hope for their future. As for employment, the primary job growth is in public sector (government jobs) which are ultimately a parasitic value add to the economy. Given this, it's easy to see the negative sentiment in Trudeau and his cabinet. This sentiment seems to have hit a crescendo with the recent release of the over-shot budget deficit. Thoughts?
  • moralestapia 2y ago
    >Thoughts? and prayers!
  • the-chitmonger 2y ago
    Speaking as US citizen, what policies/legislation could Trudeau have reasonably enacted to alleviate the housing/job market? It's been pretty rough stateside as far as real estate goes, but it doesn't seem like a solution will materialize (that is to say, there's no solution that avoids hurting the wallets of the people in charge).
    • usixk 2y ago
      I'm no economist by any means but most armchair experts I interact tend to believe that this drive in pricing comes from low yield government spending, increased immigration and of course lower rate of residences being built. IMO, altering immigration levels would have the most tangible affect on the housing and jobs (unsure about the US). I'm not bullish on the idea that we can build residences quickly and the government spending is hard to control with poor financial auditing among the current administration.
    • red-iron-pine 2y ago
      * limit immigration * limit foreign ownership of property; Canada is the best place to launder money in the world -- just buy Vancouver or Toronto real estate * direct investment in sectors of the economy that aren't oil & gas; e.g. not buying a huge pipeline * incentives to change zoning * changes to national laws around things like banking regulations and mortgages -- 30 year fixed rate mortgages like in the US aren't a thing in the CAN * initiatives to lesson other heavy impacts like higher cost of food, fuel, etc. some of these, like the Liberal's Daycare Subsidy were a good start