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Giving up the iPad-only travel dream

• vorpalhex 3y ago
  I just left for a trip today and have a macbook I purchased three days ago along for the ride. Both the spouse and I were uncomfortable with only having ipads - and within 4 hours of landing it's already been the right call. It's a shame. A full desktop OS in iPad form factor is basically a holy grail.
  • warning26 3y ago
    It really is -- my iPad has the same CPU as my Mac, and it highlights just how much iPadOS lets the hardware go to waste. MacOS is better in essentially every possible way -- faster, can run whatever you like, better multitasking.
    • Kon-Peki 3y ago
      This is a new development, and only on the most expensive versions. Historically, the iPad has always been running an iPhone-class processor. I'd bet that Apple is still shipping 5x-10x as many A-series iPads as M-series iPads. I'd love to be able to run a more capable OS on an M-series iPad, but not if that means all the rest have a worse experience. Maybe Apple needs to release an iPadOS Pro to go along with the M-series chips?
  • pnpnp 3y ago
    Out of curiosity - what problems did you run into?
  • zulln 3y ago
    What are you missing? If only a few tasks you could just VNC to a “desktop OS” for these tasks. I would assume most things that requires such OS requires an internet connection anyway. I still primary use a laptop, but that is because I like the form of it. So I have no actual experience trying to survive with only iOS.
    • codetrotter 3y ago
      > you could just VNC to a “desktop OS” for these tasks There are many places in the world where the availability of the internet is so spotty and so poor, that trying to use VNC to get work done would not be possible.
    • vorpalhex 3y ago
      If I have to VNC into a real machine then the iPad has failed. I'd rather just spend a few lbs of weight budget and bring a real laptop. The only way to make VNC worse is to have to do it on a $1000 locked down tablet.
  • ciabattabread 3y ago
    Like a vacation trip? What are you doing that requires access to a laptop?
  • jtriangle 3y ago
    >A full desktop OS in iPad form factor is basically a holy grail. There are many, many ways to acquisition that, just because apple won't let you do it doesn't mean it can't be done. Anything that can run linux with the KDE plasma desktop environment will, at very least, feel very familiar to OSX. You might have to seek out some app alternatives if you're doing something specific, but nowadays general desktop computing like you'd do on a laptop is well covered in most distros, and if you're looking for a place to start, Kubuntu is likely your best OOB experience. Combine that with basically any windows native tablet computer, and you're off to the races. You'll likely have to play with some things to get it how you want it, but the nice thing about linux is you can play with those things. So yes, the holy grail is here weary traveler.
  • cogman10 3y ago
    The issue is a OS and UX designed around touch screen doesn't work well with a mouse and vice versa. I think MS got the closest to sort of addressing it with windows 8, but everyone simply defaulted to the desktop mode rather than the touch mode (didn't help that the windows store was/is incredibly poorly done). This is why devices like the surface pro or other 2 in 1 devices never really seemed to work out. You are either harming the tablet experience or the keyboard experience.
    • haswell 3y ago
      > The issue is a OS and UX designed around touch screen doesn't work well with a mouse and vice versa. This is really not the case with iPadOS though. It already works quite well with a touchpad and keyboard. The hardware is already there to control a full desktop OS, iPadOS already allows itself to be be controlled as if it’s a desktop OS, and with continuity mode, it’s already possible to control macOS via an iPad. All of these things already work pretty well, and paint a pretty decent picture of what might be if Apple decided to go further. Some things just work better on a touchscreen, even when they’re running on macOS. Some things just work better with a mouse and keyboard, even when they’re running on iPadOS. As long as there’s some way to transition between them, I do really think a best-of-both-worlds option exists, because it’s mostly there already.
  • jodrellblank 3y ago
    > "A full desktop OS in iPad form factor is basically a holy grail." A holy grail you've been able to buy for 7 years; Microsoft Surface Book with detatchable screen. High quality hardware, beautiful screen, best touchpad on a Windows laptop I've used, but the removable screen to make it a tablet just ... isn't very useful.
    • vorpalhex 3y ago
      I have a Windows Surface 7. The battery life is insufficient for travel and Windows is not reliable enough for me to trust it. It served as a overspec baby cam monitor for a few months but we had so many issues that the second time I went to reformat it, we replaced it.
• timestretch 3y ago
  I'd buy an iPad immediately if I could run MacOS on it.
  • LeoPanthera 3y ago
    This is a silly thing to say. macOS is specifically designed for use with a mouse and keyboard. iOS is specifically designed for use with a touch screen. Adapting either one to work with the other would only make it worse.
    • markus92 3y ago
      Apple sells a magic keyboard for the iPad pro which also has a touchpad. The hardware is not the problem.
      • timestretch 3y ago
        Other ridiculous things: The "Apple Magic Keyboard Folio" for the 10th gen iPad has a better keyboard than the iPad Pro.
        • dylan604 3y ago
          I so thought you were going to say better keyboard than a 2017 MacBookPro
    • timestretch 3y ago
      MacOS allows me to run any software I want. It has a terminal, and allows me to run scripts. It has a shared file system and offers true multi-tasking. You can already run some iOS apps in MacOS. I'd like a single computer where I can switch between mobile / pencil usage and desktop keyboard / mouse usage.
      • hattmall 3y ago
        That's exactly what I have with a convertible Chromebook. Super Snappy ChromeOS for web browsing. It can run Android apps, or stream them from my phone. Flip it around and it's a BIG tablet. 15.6" 4k screen. Going back into computer mode I can run full blown Linux, very quickly via Crouton or virtualized slightly less quick with official Crostini. Can also do a lot of the terminal stuff directly in the ChromeOS shell. In either Linux environment I can emulate Windows via QEMU/KVM. It's as fast as native in Crouton, again a bit slower in Crostini. Lightweight,long battery life, charges over USB-C will fast charge my phone and interfaces seamlessly with the phone for tethering that doesn't use hotspot data and doing messages notifications, etc.
• perardi 3y ago
  When the iPad first came out, people knocked it as "a big iPod touch". But…maybe that wasn't a bad thing? I feel like the iPad, despite alllll the efforts to seemingly make it a pro device, is an iPhone, but bigger. It's great for messages, browsing Facebook, and watching video, and that's just fine. Because that serves a lot of people's needs, and trying to add in a bunch more stuff just overloads the touch interface paradigm. (Ugh, the number of times I activated the split screen thing when they first introduced multitasking…)
  • fassssst 3y ago
    I agree, I like the simplicity of it essentially being a big iPhone. I don’t want it to be like a Mac or do Mac stuff on it.
  • jeroenhd 3y ago
    I think "iPad is a big iPod" worked great, but then they brought out the iPad Pro. That thing was supposed to be for Professionals doing Professional Work Things. After that came the iPad Mini, which is an iPad but smaller (so it's an iPod but bigger but smaller?). Weirdly enough, I don't think the iPad Pro is more than just the iPad but faster and bigger. There are tons of model-based software restrictions between the different models for what I assume are market segmentation reasons. Meanwhile, Samsung has had Dex for a few years now, and it works great. It's included on any midrange product and up and it feels like what you would expect from "what happens when I plug my phone/tablet into a USB C dock". Apple's reveal of their weird multitasking iPad interface was quite humorous to me. It just screams "don't try to do anything professional on here" compared to the existing solutions Samsung have provided for years. Too bad Qualcom/Samsung/Mediatek can't figure out how to compete with Apple. Dex on an iPad could replace many people's laptops and desktops and compete with Microsoft's Surface series.
    • makeitdouble 3y ago
      The biggest issue with the iPad Pro is macos. It should either run macos, or get a compatibility layer that runs macos programs, but Apple's sitting on this fence for a decade neither pushing the mac to get touch, nor letting the iPad become desktop class. > Too bad Qualcom/Samsung/Mediatek can't figure out how to compete with Apple I'd argue Microsoft did, and they're at their 9th iteration of a decently good product. As do Dell, Huawei, ASUS and the other makers shipping windows tablets. They're definitely there on the "Pro" side. Samsung also pushed some pretty good devices on the Chromebook side, which I'd argue is a more direct competitor to iPad if it comes to elderly or kids in school where you need a more constrained and touch first experience.
• wildrhythms 3y ago
  I always found the 'multitasking' features on iPad OS to be really poor. It suspends things in the background so aggressively that any kind of switching back and forth between Safari tabs (to and from a Github Codespace) is just non-feasible. And the lack of browser dev tools without tethering to a 'real' computer.
  • Austin_Conlon 3y ago
    Even Final Cut Pro on iPad requires staying in the foreground during exports.
    • klipklop 3y ago
      Never understand why apple ships their iPads and Macbooks with such little ram by default. Yes I understand profit, but it really limits what these devices can do. The numbers have not really changed much in the last several years...
      • HippoBaro 3y ago
        Limiting the amount of ram goes a long way in reducing power consumption. It takes constant voltage to keep the cells alive, even when the device is locked and seemingly doing nothing. The iPad really does have great battery life on the other hand.
        • pcurve 3y ago
          Are you saying there is battery life difference between 8gb vs 16gb MacBook too? (Since iPad Pro only comes in 8gb)
          • coder543 3y ago
            iPad Pro comes in 8GB and 16GB variants. Scroll down to "Chip": https://www.apple.com/ipad-pro/specs/ https://www.apple.com/ipad-pro/specs/
        • 3y ago
• readthenotes1 3y ago
  "For many years, I tried very hard to travel with only an iPad. (Why bring two devices? And I’m not leaving my iPad at home.)" I bet they means three devices, since I would wager they does not leave theys "more expensive than a Windows-based laptop" iPhone at home.
  • timestretch 3y ago
    The hardware in the iPhone is probably powerful enough to run all software he'd run on his Mac if it were similarly unhampered by iOS.
• vondur 3y ago
  Apple wants there to be a distinction between the two devices, otherwise people would only purchase one if they were equivalent.
• oflannabhra 3y ago
  I know Apple has a strong resistance to the two-in-one form factor, but an M-series MacBook Air with detachable screen that seamlessly transitions between macOS and iPadOS is basically my dream device.
  • timestretch 3y ago
    They want to sell you two devices, and a monthly subscription to iCloud to interoperate between them.
    • dmonitor 3y ago
      I really don’t buy these kinds of explanations when it comes to Apple products. They would love to sell you a 2-in-1 device for twice as much. I just don’t think the UX is good enough for their standards. MacOS is poorly suited for touch interactions, and iPadOS is poorly suited for mouse cursor oriented interactions. 2-in-1s are just terrible UX experiences that Apple doesn’t want to be associated with.
      • gtvwill 3y ago
        Lol no they wouldn't or they'd have done it ten years ago. Apple is after your dollars they care nothing for what's better for you for productivity or any ethics outside of profit really. Their actions over the last 20 years set that in stone.
        • katbyte 3y ago
          You are just speculating - having a 2 in 1 device is not as easy as “osx on an iPad” or “iOS on a Mac” Until the m1 is was 100% not possible, now that they are both arm it’s possible but still would require an entirely new device class to do it justice
          • hu3 3y ago
            > Until the m1 is was 100% not possible. Microsoft made that possible at least 6 years ago with Surface Book. Why couldn't Apple? (spoiler they could) https://youtu.be/SdQQ8uvylJ0?si=as1k5R5BhFTZiys_&t=106 https://youtu.be/SdQQ8uvylJ0?si=as1k5R5BhFTZiys_&t=106 And there are other brands too: https://www.ign.com/articles/best-detachable-laptops https://www.ign.com/articles/best-detachable-laptops Took me 10 seconds to Google. Why do people go to these great lengths to defend giant soulless corporations is beyond me.
• semireg 3y ago
  Someone should make a list of analogies of: if X were an iPad you couldn’t do Y. Perhaps after a few hundred of these we could identify a higher level pattern that would “make sense” instead of being frustrating. I feel like there’s some deep philosophical underpinning or monad-like slip-through-your-fingers constraint that is maddening.
  • classified 3y ago
    Nope, it's just Apple wanting to maximize profits.
    • aa1234556 3y ago
      [dead]
• politelemon 3y ago
  I'm also looking for a two in one, a tablet that can be a laptop. The best I've found is a surface, and I think dell has some two in ones too. The surface feels like the right call because it's just light enough to be a powerful tablet, but not so power hungry that it's stationary. I think they've hit the right balance here. It's a shame this form factor isn't so common, and what would be perfect for a vacation would be a Chromebook. It's browser centric which is 98% of vacation related activities.
  • mos_6502 3y ago
    I was about to comment something to the same effect. Like the author, as well as many who have commented, I've long been disappointed in the gap between macOS' support for advanced use cases (which I need), and the iPad's portability (which I like). I picked up a Surface Go 3. Having an actual desktop OS on a well-built, decently powerful (albeit hot at times) tablet struck the perfect balance for me. Wish I had done it years ago.
    • nicbou 3y ago
      I tried that, but the Surface was a bad iPad and a bad laptop, at least for my needs.
  • ckrailo 3y ago
    I love the Surface tablets! Runs Windows, Linux (WSL), and Android (WSA) so covers almost any use-case I'd need. Stick to the ones with Intel processors for maximum compatibility.
  • htoi24u234234 3y ago
    Have you looked at Asus Z13
• Joe_Boogz 3y ago
  I’ve been using Remote Desktop to a windows environment in the cloud for a while. It’s been pretty great actually. As long as you have a Bluetooth mouse an IPad makes a great thin client in a pinch. I know people want MacOs, but it’s a workaround that works.
  • seanthemon 3y ago
    Which cloud provider do you use? I'm currently connecting to my pc but i don't like this solution. I'd like to run a docker instance
    • Joe_Boogz 3y ago
      I use Azure. Also going to be looking into Cloud PC or Dev box soon (also azure)
      • seanthemon 3y ago
        How's the cost? I'm thinking of running a docker instance from my pc and connecting to it remotely
  • jeromeparadis 3y ago
    As a developer/CTO who's use-case when travelling is just being able to take care of emergencies if something present itself I wanted to do away from bringing a laptop in vacation. Since I develop using Docker, my solution is basically an EC2 machine I can fire if needed that has VSCode installed as a server running in a browser with Docker installed in the same machine. Basically a cloud dev environment available in the browser. It's amazing how it all works well, even the Docker integration inside VSCode. The main thing that doesn't work as well as locally is searching the source code which is very slow. A work-around would be to search your code separately in Github or whatever service you use. Anyway, with this setup, I can go away with a clear mind that I have a dev machine available even if I only bring my iPad (with keyboard cover).
    • theCodeStig 3y ago
• egonschiele 3y ago
  It’s wild how few keyboard shortcuts you can use on an iPad. That alone has been enough to make me use mine less.
• drewg123 3y ago
  I really, really wish that Apple had not let developers opt-out their apps from running on M1/M2 Macbooks. My use case is a long flight where I want to watch a movie on a screen bigger than my phone. For a while, some of the streaming service iOS apps ran on my MBP. In fact, I subscribed to HBO Max partially because their app worked on my MBP. But since their rebrand to Max, it no longer works.
  • bsimpson 3y ago
    I was today years old when I heard you can put an iOS app on a Mac.
  • ab_testing 3y ago
    What is the problem with using the browser on the MacBook to access content ?
    • lancesells 3y ago
      Maybe it needs a connection and not all flights have that?
      • ryukafalz 3y ago
        Even if you do have a connection, it's typically expensive and bandwidth limited. Having whatever you want to watch already locally on your device just makes more sense.
    • bgoldste 3y ago
      Some of the apps allow you to download the content, while the browser version doesn’t. In case you don’t have to wifi on the flight.
    • drewg123 3y ago
      Many flights do not have reliable internet access that is fast enough to stream video. And I want to watch what I want to watch, not the random selection of stuff I might find on the inflight entertainment. Not to mention that I want to zone out, and not hear a captive airline credit card sales pitch from the flight attendants at 90db in my headphones while they pause the video I'm watching. So, for all those reasons, I'd prefer to download content prior to the flight and watch it in-flight.
• tqwhite 3y ago
  I do not want to do my work on an iPad. I have never understood what the Mac was lacking that the iPad might provide. The essay explains the perfection of the Mac: You can do anything with it. If you are a developer, you can really do anything with it. For me, the iPad is the optional one (not that I would ever not take it). My MacBook is pretty close to being a perfect device for work. iPad is a perfect device for, well, everything else. Done.
  • deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
• pjot 3y ago
  An iPad with (any) Bluetooth keyboard and mouse along with codespaces (or replit, gitpod, et al) works well. As long as you accept that what you’re using isn’t a full blown computer, it’s absolutely enough. All about managing expectations.
• Argonaut998 3y ago
  It's quite disappointing. They have so much potential but Apple do not want to meet it for whatever reason, maybe they do not want people cutting into their MacBook sales. Beautiful UI but poor UX, especially its file management which is nothing short of abysmal. I travel with an Android tablet now — and while they have their own problems they still are far more functional and flexible than iPads. Want to watch a movie that's not on Netflix or Prime? Just find a torrent and open Flud. You can use it as a FTP server, basically anything you need, an Android tablet is perfect for. My iPad is delegated to note taking now with the pencil. It's also pretty clear that iPads nowadays are the lowest of Apple's priorities.
  • bdcravens 3y ago
    I'm fully bought into the Apple ecosystem, but one of the most useful pieces of tech I own is a device that turns my car's touch screen into an unrestricted Android tablet (ironically, using the Apple CarPlay protocol to interface)
• michalf6 3y ago
  The concept of this website (sixcolors.com) is bewildering to me. I sincerely hope the authors are being handsomely paid by Apple behind the scenes, otherwise they just spend their lives doing free advertising for a trillion dollar corporation.
  • bananapub 3y ago
    unlike this website, which provides a penumbra of authenticity to a tech funding cartel which regularly runs pump'n'dump schemes against the rest of the world?
  • D13Fd 3y ago
    Is it though? Seems like (1) they are fans of the products; (2) they want to write about stuff they like; and (3) they figure out that they can make a career out of it.
  • 1123581321 3y ago
    The proprietor was editor of Macworld and similar publications for a couple decades. It probably sounds crazy to you, but there are and/or were entire print magazines reporting on the Apple ecosystem!
  • makeitdouble 3y ago
    He's a long term journalist (was editor in chief at MacWorld) focusing on Apple and is also podcasting on Apple. If you're married to the Apple ecosystem his insight are pretty interesting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Snell_(writer) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Snell_(writer)
• jxdxbx 3y ago
  I like the 12.9” iPad for reading all kinds of documents, and video. I use it most as a “computer” when I remote in to my media server. But I still can do all my work on it when traveling, despite the inconveniences.
• thelastknowngod 3y ago
  I basically haven't used an apple product (outside of the ipod) since my powermac circa 2003. I got an iPad pretty much entirely for the pencil and Procreate. Both are wonderful but it's a horrible OS otherwise. I don't think I would ever get an iPhone given how inflexible everything feels in that ecosystem. I thought I might be able to do some light development work on it.. No chance. I don't even know why it has so much storage space. The file system is so poorly designed it's a pain in the ass to transfer anything to it.
• xwdv 3y ago
  If all you need is to carry a computer for emergency work related tasks on vacation, you can do it straight from an iPhone thin client and Bluetooth keyboard. No MacBook or iPad required.
  • ja27 3y ago
    Coworkers were always amazed when we'd be at lunch and I'd pull out my phone and make a code change or fix an issue right there. It's not that hard. Much easier with an external keyboard though.
    • ris58h 3y ago
      > Coworkers were always amazed Did everyone clap?
• bilsbie 3y ago
  My dream is to do all computer work from a couch or hammock. I’m not sure if it will ever work out.
  • gizajob 3y ago
    I feel that's got more to do with the UI of the couch or hammock than that of the computer.
  • l5870uoo9y 3y ago
    Didn’t you do that during corona? Remote work is still common in Europe if you are employed in the tech sector.
  • layer8 3y ago
    That’s bound to be very unhealthy in the long run, posture-wise. You’ll notice when you get older. ;)
    • saurik 3y ago
      FWIW I regret my time sitting in chairs way more than my time sitting in couches :(.
  • CTDOCodebases 3y ago
    This can be done but ergonomics become a consideration if you plan to spend some time there: https://mgsloan.com/posts/supine-computing/ https://mgsloan.com/posts/supine-computing/ https://www.piratekingdom.com/blog/my-productivity-couch-setup https://www.piratekingdom.com/blog/my-productivity-couch-set... https://www.jefftk.com/p/folding-couch-monitor https://www.jefftk.com/p/folding-couch-monitor
    • bilsbie 3y ago
      Great links! Thanks.
• gizajob 3y ago
  I wrote a 160,000 word book this year on an iPad Air with smart keyboard (I find how the pro keyboard doesn't fold all the way back to allow holding the iPad landscape too big of an annoyance to buy one). I think it's a brilliant device, and while limited, does do some things better than the Mac - annotating PDFs and ebooks with the Pencil being one of them. Also nice to hold a document one is working on in landscape so that it looks like it's on paper, yet remains interactive. Yeah I get it's kind of hamstrung and annoyingly clunky in a way that you'd think apple could resolve, but still think as a device it's pretty remarkable, and still got loads of potential for getting better, somehow. I think I'm going to try laying out my next book using Affinity Publisher - I used the Mac version to lay out the last one so hope I can do the same while finding benefits for doing so with my little paddy. One other side benefit is that the iPad somehow seems incongruous - with a laptop out in public you're "working" yet with an iPad you're somehow perceptually not. Plus, iPad coupled with Library Genesis is awesome. Totally awesome. Yeah I'm a terrible libertarian pirate, but it's just incredible. Better than the libraries I've paid a fortune for as part of my education. Heaps better than the annoying tedium of logging in to various publishers and databases and subscriptions via a library website to then use a locked-down epub in a horrible and further locked down DRM e-reader, every one of which I've ever tried is basically an abomination.
  • madeofpalk 3y ago
    Like all things Apple, iPad is great if you only use it for the exact, limited use cases it was designed for. The moment you start to be beyond that slightly it completely falls apart. Contrast it to a more general computer running macOS or Windows, which does a poorer job at what iPad does best, but it has a much longer tail where the complexity ramps up linearly, compared to the hockey stick of iOS.
    • gizajob 3y ago
      At the same time though, limited tools can lead to creativity. I know we're in the company of coders with complex workflows, but using and understanding a limited tool well to the point where you can max it out can be better than living with a "long tail" of untapped power and productivity. Strange though, how the iPad is ostensibly a much better device given the touchscreen and keyboard (and now pencil) and yet remains somehow less useful than a MacBook. Might also be an issue of perception that the iPad can't do certain things well, when it almost can. From a user standpoint, having a device that really is like an appliance that never blinks or goes wrong is pretty brilliant. Windows has let me down on that front too many times for too many years, and now the only time I use it I live in a web browser 99.9% of the time (in a university library)...
• mrcwinn 3y ago
  Here’s the real problem. Apple will never intentionally prolong upgrade cycles for expensive laptops by offering you a cheaper device that can “do everything.” The iPad was conceived as a media consumption device, sitting between a phone and a laptop. Steve Jobs said this at the beginning. You want to browse the web, you want send some emails, you want to watch movies. That’s it. Nothing more. Save yourself some travel weight. Just pack your Mac. You were already packing it anyway.
  • stetrain 3y ago
    A 12.9” iPad Pro with the keyboard case is more expensive than the equivalent 13” MacBook Pro.
    • gizajob 3y ago
      The horror of Apple's pricing structure. Has annoyed me to the point where I've abandoned purchasing anything on several occasions.
      • stetrain 3y ago
        Well a 12.9” iPad Pro with the keyboard case gives you basically all the same computing hardware as a 13” MacBook Pro, plus: Better quality mini-LED display Better/additional cameras Touchscreen with pen support Magnetic charging for the pen Detachable keyboard Cellular data option It’s not really a surprise that the iPad can cost more. Just a shame that the App Store limitations prevent it from being as useful a software platform for many use cases.
  • rollcat 3y ago
    I think the real world use cases for an iPad are slightly broader, but not by much. My partner uses one to make digital art; it also has a relatively decent camera, some apps for video/audio production (like Final Cut/Logic), it's also better than a phone at being an SSH terminal... But the creative applications end somewhere around right there. It's an appliance. An appliance with mind-boggingly awesome specs - if it were a computer - but it's just that, an appliance closer in spirit to a microwave than to a PC. Treat it as such, and it will be one of the best appliances you'll ever own; but to expect it to be a computer is to set oneself up to be disappointed. I'm more than happy with it for what it is, but don't mistake it for what it's not.
• tammer 3y ago
  These types of articles come out periodically and annoy me quite a bit. iPadOS has been my interface to the digital world for going on 6 years. Here are the things I do exclusively via an iPad Pro: * administer a dozen HPC clusters * perform all the digital tasks required of a non-profit board member * learn/read, communicate, consume media, photo edit and all the other normal life things one does on a computer nowadays It’s true that I don’t have a podcast. But I think I’m in the majority of computer users there! I’ll also say that I have had to accept some limits or look for workarounds in the past, but the big additions of file downloads, safari compatibility modes and finally stage manager have effectively taken care of those.
  • deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  • Spooky23 3y ago
    Yeah, same. I think at the end of the day, some folks don’t want to work that way. Which is fine. I do all of my personal business on an iMac. The big gap for me was the shell, which is now not an issue with iSH available. There’s literally nothing I cannot do that I need to do that can’t be done on the iPad.
  • deergomoo 3y ago
    But isn’t that the point of the article? The iPad works great for the things you want to do on it because Apple has decided to support those workflows (or you have been able to adjust your own practices to suit the device). But on a Mac (or Windows, or Linux), no-one needs to think ahead for your use case. Someone can just build software that enables it. Software development is a much less niche area than podcast recording but one that is equally unsupported on the iPad. I doubt many are itching to swap their dev machines for an iPad, but given the hardware it sure would be nice if I could tinker with stuff on the sofa. But no amount of workarounds or developer ingenuity would enable that because Apple has decreed that I cannot run arbitrary code, or run a local server.
• treve 3y ago
  Pick literally any other vendor than Apple and you can likely do most things.
• dotnet00 3y ago
  So far I've been managing to keep up with work while traveling using a Samsung tab. So far its been going well, granted that I mostly only need MS Office and sometimes a terminal for some code.
• yieldcrv 3y ago
  I know lottts of people that rely on company provided laptops or dont have any laptop. For them, travel ipads are perfect. For everyone else, just leave all computers at home, or take the laptop.
• MassiveBonk51 3y ago
  I'll was planning trying this out in a couple weeks. Should I bring my macbook with me as well? I don't know how much I'd actually want to code which seems like the biggest reason to bring it with me.
  • 121789 3y ago
    I just tried to go with the only iPad Pro for travel option (I really wanted this to work), but had to return it and go back to my MacBook Air. The iPad is just not as good at many basic productivity workflows. Really basic stuff like switching between google sheets and chrome is just really high friction. It’s an amazing consumption device but I just couldn’t get it to work for me
• fudged71 3y ago
  What if Apple released a device that was an M2/M3 MacBook, but the back side of the screen was another screen? I didn’t used to believe this was likely, but now we have the Vision Pro which has an internal and external screen. A combo laptop/tablet would be incredible, and they use the same chip so why not?
  • ramranch 3y ago
    Double sided devices are inherently more fragile, for one.
  • stonecharioteer 3y ago
    Lenovo did that, put an eink screen on the back of one of their laptops. It was Intel only, and I was looking for a Ryzen 7 or 9. Asus's Z13 and X13 Flow lines work for me here. I use an X13 Flow with a Ryzen 9 and a 3050Ti. It works amazingly. Fedora and KDE have native touch support.
• jll29 3y ago
  The key sentence here is: > This is the fundamental difference between the Mac (a platform that basically lets developers and users do anything they want) and the iPad (where if Apple doesn’t specifically allow it, it can’t be done). Apple (since Lisa/Mac, after Apple II, which had an open architecture) likes appliances and to control the user experience, so the iPad is "more Apple" than Macs are. Whenever I am waiting at airports, I have to grin at how much stuff people are carrying nowadays: it's not 2, it's 3 full-blown computing devices. First there was the mobile phone (which then just a device to call), then came the laptop, then the mobile phone became a computer with the iPhone and Android, and finally, the iPad appeared to fill a middle position. You'd think depending on the person, they'd travel with EITHER their phone OR their iPad OR their laptop, depending on whether they are private people, non-technical "creatives" or IT/technical/dev folks, but instead, everybody appears to be travelling with ALL THREE devices instead. That's because - as stated in the article - there are known limit, or people are worried that they may need all devices for particular use cases or data kept on them. At least - thanks to the EU - soon they can all share the same USB-C charger. I tried working with an iPad (and later iPad Pro) but eventually got back to a Ubuntu Linux laptop (ThinkPad X1 Nano), which at 970 grams is also lighter than my iPad Pro 10".
  • pavel_lishin 3y ago
    > You'd think depending on the person, they'd travel with EITHER their phone OR their iPad OR their laptop, depending on whether they are private people, non-technical "creatives" or IT/technical/dev folks, but instead, everybody appears to be travelling with ALL THREE devices instead I can't answer a call or text my family with my laptop while I'm on the go. I can't plug my macbook into a car to use maps or play music. I can't use my macbook on the beach to take a picture of my child playing in the surf. I can't really use my phone to type out anything shorter than a quick text. (Caveat, for the pedants: yes, I could do all those things, but with terrible inconvenience.)
    • hahajk 3y ago
      More importantly for an airplane, you can't watch Netflix (or most streaming movies) offline on a laptop. Though I've never used a Surface, maybe you can do that with some kind of mobile app that runs on a hybrid thing.
• narrator 3y ago
  I recently bought a full-size bluetooth keyboard with a slot on it for mounting tablets. It's must easier to type on then any portable mini-keyboard and totally worth it if you are going to write a book or code. I consider those little ipad sized keyboards a total waste of time since I started working on one with a full-size keyboard that's even bigger than a laptop keyboard.
  • ellis0n 3y ago
    I always work with a full PC keyboard, because scientists came up with it, and marketers came up with a small laptop keyboard. I used to just carry it in my backpack all the time. I just have big fingers :)
• uzername 3y ago
  An anecdote: I hadn't taken the iPad seriously. It didn't have the apps I needed to get things done, either in my personal life or work life. Or it didn't have the physical aspects (why stream on a small screen when I have a TV at home?) As I entered into a more senior work role, I refused to put work email or teams on my phone. No device management or malware on my personal device. Instead, I found out that my company let me use an iPad with email and teams and the management software didn't infect the whole system making it nearly useless, and I could even take screenshots. It's not perfect but let me have a lighter daily carry. All that said, I can't develop on an iPad. I think if I could get an MBA for on the go meeting type work and a mac studio for delivery, that would be fine. But then we're right back to: I refuse to have any of that stuff on my personal device.
• Jemm 3y ago
  Apple has hobbled the iPad and I can only assume the intention is to not cut in to MacBook profits. Thus the iPad is really only useful for content consumption and even then it fails.
• user6723 3y ago
  [flagged]
• ja27 3y ago
  I used to grab my iPad Pro (a 2018 12.9") a lot more. Battery life used to be a factor but these days my M1 MBP probably gets better life. Since I got the Magic Keyboard for the iPad (which is awesome), it's not much lighter than the MBP either. I'd cry a lot less if it got a liquid spill, which would probably only take out the $300 keyboard. It does pretty much force me to single-task, often either in a document or a terminal (Blink), which can be a real advantage at times. But so often I'll need to swap between a browser, Slack, Trello, a terminal, etc. that I'll end up with background apps getting killed due to memory pressure or the dreaded "respring" where the base UI completely reloads. So the iPad now mostly makes a good reader (indoors only though), note-taker, and video watcher. It'd be good as a travel monitor if goddamn Sidecar could work more than 24% of the time.
• GoofballJones 3y ago
  This is always on a case-by-case basis. Just because THIS particular person can't work everything on an iPad doesn't mean EVERYONE is the same. My mother-in-law, for instance, does everything from an iPad. She doesn't own a computer anymore. She does her emails, bills, spreadsheets, printing, reading...etc etc...from her iPad. She has a keyboard she can hook up to it to write long things, and then puts it away when she doesn't need it. Could I work like this? No. But again, this doesn't mean everyone is like me. It all has to be taken case-by-case. I would suspect that the vast majority of readers to Hacker News can't work like this either, nor could they think of why anyone would want to...so confirmation bias kicks in big time.
• jdshaffer 3y ago
  I've tried doing iPad-only several times, but I'm a bit of a digital packrat, a highly-organized packrat, though. So I really miss a solid File Manager. I know Android is much better at this, but the default "Files" app in iOS just sucks -- I feel like I have to bounce between three or four apps just to get something simple done. Has anyone found a reasonable way to manage files on iOS?
  • packetlost 3y ago
    FE File Explorer is most of what I want in a file manager
  • walterbell 3y ago
    GoodReader has a classic file manager, sync to NAS/cloud and OS-independent encryption.
  • ellis0n 3y ago
    I am looking for someone who can develop a good two panel file manager for iPad. Please check my comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37269536 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37269536
  • loehnsberg 3y ago
    The file manager has gotten better but it is still way behind Finder. Otherwise, pair it with a keyboard and mouse, open codespaces, and you have an excellent travel computer. Just don‘t expect to move files around.
• j45 3y ago
  After trying the iPad for this, I discovered a 12" Macbook is a real option to consider either as a secondary or mobile laptop. It allowed much quicker on/off usage, and for longer sessions it was really serviceable. The 2017 model in particular is one of interest. Instant on, a full and normal keyboard. An i7 with 16 gb of ram is still serviceable for cloud type work (or some local). Perfect for travel, planes, cars, trains, hotels. Easy to remote into a Mac Studio if needed too. The new iPad keyboard is nice, but there's still a lot more disney magical gesturing than a keyboard alone allows. Touch is slower, and the iPad keyboard is slower to type on than a laptop keyboard. The horsepower the iPad has is great, though. An iPad makes a great second monitor off the 12" Macbook, too.
• karmakaze 3y ago
  I realized early on that the iPad like iPhone is a consumer device. Somewhat better with apps targeting the iPad Pro, but still not general purpose like I want. Settled on the Surface Go, which was the right call and later upgraded to the Go 3 with Intel Core m3 processor. With heavy cpu/gpu use it gets very warm and throttles down so got a USB peltier cooler that keeps performance 100%
• deergomoo 3y ago
  The iPad software has been lagging behind its hardware for so long now. My iPad and laptop both have an M1; the laptop has more RAM but they are effectively equally capable on paper. And yet, due to a series of entirely artificial restrictions, my iPad is useless for entire categories of applications. That power sits unavailable for me to ever utilise. I’m sure the iPad Pro can live up to its name if you’re an artist or designer or maybe even something that involves 3D modelling, but outside of that absolutely not. It’s a terrible shame because I think there really is value in a computer that fills the space between a phone and a “real” computer. Especially given its modularity (though the obscenely high pricing of Apple’s keyboard cases is another problem). At this point the thing most holding the iPad back is Apple itself. Anything to do with software development is impossible or involves remotely interfacing with a second computer. The things it does support are tedious and frustrating, like file management (Files.app is hopeless) and multitasking (Stage Manager is a convoluted mess). What the hell was even the point in splitting iPadOS out if it’s just gonna have the exact same limitations as iOS. I got a good deal on a used iPad Pro but when it comes time to upgrade this thing I’ll just go back to the middle of the road model for a nice, but ultimately unnecessary consumption device.
  • zarzavat 3y ago
    The problem is an organizational cultural problem at Apple itself: they are control freaks obsessed with putting the user first, but as with all extremists they take it too far, trying to obtain some “perfect” user experience, even when that hurts the user’s own interests! Apple sees developers and third party software as threats to the user, the only safe thing to do is to lock it all down. Apple also got addicted to App Store money. Letting you install unapproved software means Apple doesn’t get their cut of not only the sale of the software but also the sale of anything through the software. And Apple wants their rent. Apple is organizationally incapable of building a good iPad OS. The culture prohibits it and the incentives are misaligned.
    • leptons 3y ago
      Those are all the main reasons I don't choose Apple devices.
• jmmv 3y ago
  That’s why I like my Surface Go 2: it lets me carry a real OS in a tiny tablet form factor. I take it everywhere and it has been my only travel laptop for a couple of years. I have even done local Rust development while on flights. If only it wasn’t so frigging slow… it’d be awesome.
  • j45 3y ago
    Its great to run linux too. The 12" Macbook is a great contender too.
    • jmmv 3y ago
      Hm, does it? I’ve been tempted to install Linux but I’ve found conflicting information online about how well it’s supported, and the small SSD doesn’t lend itself for dual booting.
      • j45 3y ago
        https://github.com/linux-surface/linux-surface https://github.com/linux-surface/linux-surface Should have you covered. I went the 12” MacBook route which can also install Linux.
      • seltzered_ 3y ago
        FWIW, a couple good linux-running alternatives to the Surface Pro are the Asus Rog Flow Z13 and HP Elite X2 G4 (or G8).
  • rtpg 3y ago
    Yeah I recently bought an iPad because the surface is either too slow to be usable or like double the price or an iPad I just wanted a tablet with good software, and the surface is so close to being that but the Go is a disgrace. Even an instore Go 3 barely handles opening Edge. Edge!
• seltzered_ 3y ago
  I waited over ten years for the iPad to mature, and ended up making a bigger jump away from the Apple ecosystem to a Tablet PC running linux: https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMobileComputers/comments/vzs8mm/how_long_have_you_been_using_an_ergo_mobile/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMobileComputers/comments/vzs8mm... It isn't perfect, but it's made for a more ergonomic computing experience that replaced my need for a second monitor desk setup and while being a bit large can still use it for tablet experiences of reading papers and watching movies.
• jacknews 3y ago
  What' needed is a real computer, with a real OS, in tablet form-factor. And then maybe a keyboard that can convert it into a laptop (extra battery in the k/b, friction hinges to adjust tablet angle, instead of a stand, which doesn't work on an actual lap), etc.
• ChiMan 3y ago
  I've never understood the attraction of the iPad for travel with any hint of work. Today's modern laptops, whether a MacBook Pro, MacBook Air, or the typical corporate 14-inch Lenovo, take up so little room and weight that it's hard to imagine giving up a real keyboard simply so you can carry a few extra pair of underwear that, in today's modern fabrics, can be carried in the pocket of a laptop sleeve anyway. Heck, even when my trip combines business and personal, it's no challenge at all to carry two laptops--my own, and the company's, in the same attache. I just don't get it.
  • Terretta 3y ago
    >> Here I sit at my mother’s dining room table, typing on a MacBook Air. Something has changed in my approach to travel, and I’m trying to understand just what it is… > I just don't get it. Here I sit far from any WiFi, doing the same on an iPad Pro with the same "real keyboard" backlit magic keyboard with a smaller but just fine touchpad, a charging cord dock port, an inset hinge taking less room on an airline tray table; and of course the 120hz 2732x2048 264ppi touch screen with 1600nits brightness; connected by eSIM to my 4G and 5G carriers of choice but not really caring because I also have 2TB of local SSD built in. I guess I have a very different approach to travel. I don't have to be at my mother's dining room table. I don't have to get my Verizon JetPack (I own the top model fast enough to act as backup uplink for a small office in an emergency, but then I'm carrying two things, not one). I can shed the keyboard and just read my Kindle, or take notes with feel of paper like my Remarkable 2 thanks to having installed the Paperlike™ screen protector while fresh out of the box. I can present on a second screen, or drag multiple different app windows to a 6K monitor. I can use it days in a row without having any idea where a power pack is, fast charge it from any 30W USB-C, and slow charge it from, well, anything. Same port works with most any USB-C dock, and any Thunderbolt 3 dock. Lying in a hotel bed watching Netflix in HDR with speakers is no way to use a laptop. The iPad 12.9 at arm's length -- no awkward keyboard to weigh you down or cramp your style -- is a larger apparent screen size than a 75" TV, and looks better than most of them too. All the tools most anyone needs are there. Office suite, Affinity suite, VSCode via blink code (same tool for mosh/ssh), Obsidian notes for personal KB, GoodNotes for handwritten ... even Kagi Orion if I need Firefox and Chrome extensions. Same form factor for travel, same form factor for the boardroom, and more specs than really anyone needs: https://www.apple.com/ipad-pro/specs/ https://www.apple.com/ipad-pro/specs/ And nobody's offended when you're using it. Nobody says "no laptops please". Does everything, goes everywhere, all at once. . . . > even when my trip combines business and personal, it's no challenge at all to carry two laptops--my own, and the company's, in the same attache TL;DR: For business or personal, iPad Pro w/ Magic Keyboard is no challenge at all to carry no laptops, in no attache, with no WiFi. And no inspections from TSA.
• PaulHoule 3y ago
  I used to carry a big desktop replacement but now I think different and carry an iPad. I use it as a terminal for a better windows computer than the one I used to lug around. I use two (2) applications for productivity: Safari to run web applications and the RDP client for everything else. I think different. Instead of getting an expensive special-purpose keyboard, I have my choice of any compact Bluetooth keyboard and mouse. I'm not waiting for Apple to do anything, although I am waiting for the 40th anniversary of Apple's 1984 Superbowl ad. I'm hoping somebody runs a parody of it, because if you don't control your computer, your computer controls you.
  • esperent 3y ago
    I've been tempted to try this for a while. How do you find this in practice? For example, do you have random connection errors, or latency issues? And have you tried connecting from another country? Or are you always physically close to the main device?
    • PaulHoule 3y ago
      It's pretty reliable except when the power goes out at home or something like that. I use Tailscale to get around the NAT on the router. My big computer is behind an ADSL connection where the uplink is pretty slow. If I am changing windows it can take a few seconds for the window to update but once the window is up it is reasonably responsive to type into PyCharm. If I spun up a machine in us-east-2 and used it over a gigabit connection it would be very fast. Recently my 2013 Mac Mini crapped out and the keyboard fascia of my Alienware laptop delaminated so I swapped in the Alienware for the Mac Mini so I don't really have a laptop I want to travel with. I am not sure what I will get to replace it and when; I've got some desire for a laptop for "hacking" such as connecting to a WiFi CAN bus dongle in my car or to go to an electronics club and program my Arduino. I haven't really decided what it's going to be yet.
      • WWLink 3y ago
        Have you considered getting a virtual private server from someplace like digital ocean or MS Azure or whatever? You might find that preferable for something to RDP into.
• balderdash 3y ago
  When is the FAA going to let me use my laptop during takeoff and landing - that’s the biggest thing ipad has going for it, that’s an hour+ of unproductive time.
  • kylehotchkiss 3y ago
    Pretty hard to enter the brace position if required in either takeoff or landing. It’s not just an airplane mode thing
    • balderdash 3y ago
      Ehh - it’s pretty easy to close a laptop (or put it on the floor) I don’t really care, but not being able to use a laptop, but being able to use an air pad of the same size is a big advantage for that -45min-hour
• ellis0n 3y ago
  I've been trying to use iPad as a developer tool for over 10 years now and it seems I'm starting to get it right. I have tried a lot of software since the creation of the iPhone 2G, connected hardware, joysticks, keyboards, mice, connected an iPad to a computer back in 2015. I think the iPad is the most successful device for smart people, but the problem is marketing. Apple had the ability to make a single system for all devices from the very beginning, but the market and maximum profit was more important. I developed the system and development tools. And with the help of which I created an application for HN on the iPad. Here is a demo video: https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/833395245 https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/833395245 I'm building a community, join to Discord https://discord.gg/4m9g7KSaMV https://discord.gg/4m9g7KSaMV
  • rcarmo 3y ago
    I travel with an iPad mini and worked off it regularly using SSH and RDP. The only thing I really miss is a normal CLI environment (I use iSH and a-Shell with great success, but I would love a sandboxed ARM Linux environment).
    • ellis0n 3y ago
      Yeah, iPad Mini is great. I bought it a year ago and it replaced my iPad Pro 2018 which is too big to take out and hide often. I think iPad Mini is the ideal device for smart people. Only a little bit worse in performance, it can be seen when heated.
• mannyv 3y ago
  "It's Apple's fault that nobody has made an all-in-one podcast production app for the iPad." This sounds like an excellent opportunity for someone.
• Mizoguchi 3y ago
  Working as a consultant means I literally have no days off. I also don't like to carry customer laptops with me when hiking somewhere in Patagonia. So my ultra light travel workstation became my Samsung Galaxy S22 phone paired with an Anker USBC hub with HDMI and a Planck by Drop (and a few cables). All I need is a TV which I usually find anywhere I go. With Samsung DEX I have a full desktop experience with functioning keyboard and the phone itself becomes my mouse. From there I can VPN and launch a RDP session to access a development environment. Outlook and Teams work natively in DEX.
• ginko 3y ago
  This article explains why you can’t travel with only an iPad (and a phone presumably) but doesn’t seem to bother explaining why you can’t just travel with a small laptop and phone. What does the tablet add that makes it indispensable for travel? Just the media consumption? I never used a tablet for an extended amount of time so maybe I’m missing something here.
  • pico303 3y ago
    Agreed. I feel like in the next year or so my travel bag is going to boil down to a MacBook Air and a paperback book.
  • ycombinete 3y ago
    I travel with just an iPad and a Phone. The iPad is great for media consumption while traveling. e.g. playing some games or watching shows, and it's good enough to do some cramped work in a pinch (sales and business management). Also take notes/sketch with the pencil, read a book/article. Most of the things I would use the iPad for can be done better with a more dedicated, or more versatile, channel. Like a laptop, or a paper notebook, or a paperback book/kindle etc. But the convenience for me of having it all in the one package is enough to make up for that.
    • Shawnj2 3y ago
      I still don’t understand why a laptop wouldn’t work for most of those use cases if you already are carrying one. Sure it’s a bit tedious to use a huge laptop on a plane but a 13” laptop will fit on your lap and in your bag nearly as easily as a 10” tablet.
      • TheHappyOddish 3y ago
        For me I have a 17" laptop and the tablet is convenent in various cases (planes, media consumption, whipping out much quicker than my laptop as it's lighter, smaller and simpler).
      • kredd 3y ago
• pjmlp 3y ago
  Meanwhile my Android tablet does just fine, I can even make use of DeX mode if I miss desktop like workflows that much. Nowadays I seldom pick my aging netbook for travelling, and how things have been going in desktop Linux even less so. Typing this from my tablet in some island.
• jshaqaw 3y ago
  Apple stopped any significant innovation on the iPad platform many years ago. It is an also-ran cash cow for them not anything worthy of investment. I say this as someone who was once enthralled with the platform and it is sad. It’s hilarious they throw m2 grade processors in something used to watch Netflix and surf websites.
• cranium 3y ago
  I really wanted to use a tablet – either iOS or Android – as a lightweight work device but it was too clumsy and uncomfortable to use. Any time you encounter a new situation, you're not sure you'd be able to solve it within the OS boundaries. I finally settled on an 8inch "proper laptop": the GPD Pocket 3. Linux works like a charm, real keyboard, and powerful. It even replaced my spec'd out 15" Dell Precision (from 2017) because it's so more fun to use.
• deafpolygon 3y ago
  After around 10 years with the iPad (since the 1st gen) in some form in my hand, I've given up on it entirely this year - selling my last iPad Pro and not picking up a new one. I haven't missed it. Anything I need to do or look at on the go is satisfied by my iPhone (I am still sporting the 13 non-Pro, which is plenty fast for my needs). For everything else, I have my 3 year old Windows laptop which runs great even to this day. For anything beefier, I can wait until I'm home and use my PC. When I built the PC, it matched the 'new' Mac Pro spec-for-spec and I paid a fraction of the price (only 1500 euros!). Apple missed the boat with the iPad AND with macOS. I use Windows now (Yes, I'm aware of the 'privacy' issues surrounding telemetry, et. al.) and haven't missed the Apple platform one bit. Gaming aside, I haven't lacked for any developer tools when using Visual Studio. For web development, VS Code and WSL2/Docker fit the bill without very many issues. One of the biggest factor with Apple is the price. While the entry level iPad is competitively priced (550 euros for a 64gb model, or 750 euros for a 256gb model): it's also outdated (running the A14 Bionic SOC). The minute you take a peek at a more current model (iPad Air 64G @ 720 euros or 256G at 920 euros), you are firmly into laptop territory. After all this time, it's still evident that iPad cannot replace a laptop - it is still a companion device. And it's not for lack of hardware. It's because Apple still wants you to buy their laptop and then pair it with an iPad for the "complete" experience. To contrast, my laptop only cost me 900 euros for Ryzen 7 512GB SSD + 16GB RAM. Is it as fast as the M2 chip? Probably not, but you aren't using all that power on the iPad Pro the majority of the time, either. A benchmark for the 4800U v. M2 chip: Geekbench 6 (Single core): 1486 (4800U) -> 2536 (M2) Geekbench 6 (Multi core): 6246 (4800U) -> 9691 (M2) While the performance of the M2 is impressive - you aren't seeing it the majority of the time. Another factor I've had to deal with is that Apple insist on their own way of doing things; whether that is better in the end, is still anyone's guess 10 years on. But ever the black sheep: file management; while better these days, is still an issue... lack of certain types of applications, cannot build or install your own applications without a developer ID, and so on. I can't even run emulators on it without a) building it and sideloading it using developer tools (and re-doing the steps every so often to refresh the cert) or b) jailbreaking it. Anyways, this post went on longer than I anticipated. I know there will be defenders swooping in to proclaim that iPad Pro is the shiznit. Let's not forget that with a screen, keyboard - my laptop costed me 900 euros 3 years ago. If I were to get an updated version of it, it would cost me 800 euros now. An iPad Pro (512G storage) with M2 and a keyboard to go with it, would cost me 1720 euros. More than _double_. And, for what?
• hfgjdssaghj 3y ago
  Despite all the posts in this thread definitively stating that the iPad is “just for entertainment”, an illustrator ex-colleague of mine creates all her work on an iPad Pro. She owns a home, and has 2 kids, and as far as I know has no other sources of income other than her illustrations, which are all made on her iPad.
  • zuhsetaqi 3y ago
    Thank you for pointing that out. And I think that’s exactly what the article says: > This is the fundamental difference between the Mac (a platform that basically lets developers and users do anything they want) and the iPad (where if Apple doesn’t specifically allow it, it can’t be done). The iPad has some really powerful use cases, but only the ones Apple made (like illustration work).
    • hfgjdssaghj 3y ago
      I admit to a feeling of hopelessness discussing this well-worn topic on HN, but in my case I use my own iPad for reading books, annotating PDFs, taking notes, writing mails, watching videos, drawing, surfing the web, watching sport, listening to music, lightweight coding, using as an extra screen and probably other things I’ve forgotten. The kids have used it to shoot and edit stop-motion movies, and ‘compose’ music. As I said, at least one person I know keeps three people (including herself) in a home and fed, in one of the world’s most expensive cities. But apparently this is only what “Apple allow us to do”.
  • _ph_ 3y ago
    There is no doubt that the iPad can be a very useful device if the available software fits exactly your needs. Here obviously the pen input is the critical enabler. Thus the iPad is very popular for anyone "drawing". But beyond those fields, the usefulness drops rapidly.
• robertlagrant 3y ago
  Why not buy a Surface? This agonising over workflow is painful to read.
• alexalx666 3y ago
  Did anyone try this https://getutm.app https://getutm.app, is it possible to install it on a non-jailbroken iPad Pro M2?
  • surlyville 3y ago
    UTM works much better if you can install the Hypervisor version via TrollStore. Unfortunately you can't do that with M2 iPads since they came with iOS 16.1 from factory and TrollStore only works on iOS 15.0-15.4.1 Luckily I have an M1 iPad Pro with iOS 15.3.1. Managed to install Oracle Database 19c ARM on Oracle Linux Arm 8.8.
    • alexalx666 3y ago
      Jesus
• parallaxapps 3y ago
  We're building a web development environment for iPadOS/iOS that hopes to address some of the shortcomings developing iPad-only (and iPhone, but...) Free to download, developer-tools browser built-in (Inspect Browser), Git and PHP available as an in-app purchase. Glad to answer any questions! https://apps.apple.com/us/app/webforge-ide/id6450872424 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/webforge-ide/id6450872424
  • dkdbejwi383 3y ago
    Having to buy a FOSS VCS as an add on is kind of proving the point that the iPad’s closed software ecosystem is really holding the fantastic hardware back.
    • parallaxapps 3y ago
      Fair enough, would be nice if there were a system terminal that could install software like desktop. We'll be the first to admit that iOS's shortcomings are what triggered us to start building the apps we do. It's true iOS software in general has a ways to match desktop capabilities, but desktops also have a bit of a head-start. We do believe iOS can get there, and hopefully exceed it in some ways. (And in WebForge's case, we not selling just the Git CLI, but a UI and tool integrated into the rest of the IDE, so you're not /just/ paying for access to FOSS software on iPad. And yes, I know VSCode is free on desktops :) )
• Wowfunhappy 3y ago
  Missing from this article: why is he traveling with his iPad at all? He loudly asserts "I’m not leaving my iPad at home" but does not explain why. From where I'm standing, the iPad is a crappy platform that has no reason to exist. It's a worse Mac. I can maybe see artists using an iPad for the touch screen, but that use case only exists because Apple refuses to give the Mac a touch screen.
  • TheHappyOddish 3y ago
    I can't speak for him, but I find m iPad incredibly useful. I sign and review documents quickly, tap out emails on the go, watch movies or TV shows, use it as a reference screen if I'm in a rack and need diagrams, manuals etc. Like most modern computing devices (laptops, phones, smart watches, etc) it has crossover functionality with some devices but not in all cases, and in some it is the superior device for varying reasons.
    • Wowfunhappy 3y ago
      But you can do all of those things very well on a laptop. Especially if you're trying to travel light, and you know you need a laptop, I don't understand why you'd pack the iPad as well.
      • lanstin 3y ago
        Because I use it to read hacker news, can sprawl out across the couch, holding it in one hand, and peacefully enjoy my time till my son wakes up.
      • TheHappyOddish 3y ago
        I can, but just like I can make calls from my laptop, it's not the preferred form factor or operating system to do so. The iPad is a great bridge between the phone and laptop. It's not for everyone, but it's not a huge extra effort or weight to travel with (slides into the laptop bag I'm taking anyway) and it fits my use case. If I was travelling and I forgot it, it also wouldn't be a huge deal and I would use my laptop. It's also handy as a second monitor when coding (keep a terminal up on it) or to watch a show while sending emails or doing something else on the laptop. Again, not a big deal if I don't have it, but useful if I do.
• szundi 3y ago
  You can use it as a second display haha
• nkotov 3y ago
  I'm convinced that the M2 MacBook Air is by far the best portable work device. It's got enough horsepower yet light enough to not break your back over. Previously, I've been carrying the latest 15inch and then 16 inch MacBook Pro since 2012 when I travel. I have an iPad Pro 12.9 with the magic keyboard as a device that's not purely for work but honestly, it's been collecting dust and I use it perhaps once a week to read news on the couch. It's pretty much a glorified note taker, a way to browse pictures/videos on a bigger screen, and respond to non-serious emails. For what I'm using, I don't think it's worth the $999+ price point.
• ubermonkey 3y ago
  This — and the related take from DaringFireball — is getting traction, but it’s presenting as a general case something that is really specific to, well, HN types, or full time bloggers, or similar: that some of the tasks you do are better suited to a Mac than an iPad. The difference is that users like this are the minority. Most people’s computing life is Office-style docs, emails, browsing, and social media. The iPad is great at doing those things. If your default mode of computing insists on having a host of windows open that you, after years or decades of experience, can fly through like a hacker god in a movie, then yeah, you may find the experience limiting. That’s when you start wondering if it’s worth the trade offs. For me personally? Yeah, on short personal trips, I go with the iPad alone. I can do everything I need to do personally with it, and if I need to reach out and do some work tasks, it’s still possible. (Not for nothing, my photo workflow now runs through the iPad first, which further enables no-laptop vacation travel.) What do I get for making the tradeoff? I carry a far cheaper and lighter device with better battery life, and one which is also better suited to reading or video consumption (IMO) than a full laptop.
• elif 3y ago
  The iPad only travel dream is a reality now, just not with apple hardware. Get a Lenovo yoga 7i for $500 (iPad price) and you have a fully capable multi Linux machine (via WSL) which is also a fully featured touchscreen tablet. Uses the same little USB charger as your phone.
• jchw 3y ago
  My ideal mobile computer would be something like the GPD MicroPC, but with mobile broadband, a camera, and a bit bigger battery. Hell, if it had the ability to do proper phone things, it could legitimately make a decent mobile phone replacement: it doesn't really need to be spectacular. The keyboard is small, but in situations where a laptop dock is a possible answer, it's pretty damn good. In other situations, having a dedicated laptop would be ideal, of course... But I've been experimenting with ditching smartphones and alternative phone options, and I gotta say, the MicroPC really feels like it's as close to the ideal general purpose mobile computer as I've ever gotten, so the desire to have something like it that really could just replace any other mobile device is strong. Unfortunately though, as of today, we're really no closer. For some insane reason, most computers that can do mobile broadband cannot do calling or SMS, at least not in any obvious way. The PinePhone Pro offers a potential story, giving you effectively Linux but on a touchscreen, but many of the OS options for it do not handle suspend well enough; and the RK3399S is not exactly about to blow anybody's mind with its performance. And of course, with no keyboard, you'll need to dock it to do any kind of "productivity" work. With how fast flagship phones are, dockable smartphones that can just provide a full desktop OS experience when plugged in should be commonplace, but they're not. Some vendors have shown off different compelling ideas, but nothing is quite fully baked. As for the iPad... It's still kind of a toy. I like it for drawing, the Apple Pencil is nice, but I struggle strongly to put it in the same class as a general purpose computer. Also, one last note. I really regret the iPhone. It was a really important device, because it showed off how to design a mobile device with a capacitive touch screen that was actually nice to use. But I wish not everyone would just chase the iPhone, as there is plenty that could be done in the mobile computer space that would be compelling if everything was not a buttonless, thin slab of touch-sensitive glass.
• pendolino 3y ago
  Sadly I agree in that I've tried to make the iPad a useful enough device to carry around with me but I just gave up and happily gave it away to a less demanding person. Mac or bust!
• roody15 3y ago
  MacBook Air m1 at 800$ blows iPads out of the water. Small, portable, great battery life and flexible enough to get work done without requiring a variety of “pay as you go apps” to put basic functionality back into an iPad. My dream is some form of MacOS being released on iPad Pro instead of iOS … not going to happen but would absolutely buy one if it happened.
• davelondon 3y ago
  I'm always dreaming of a new 11in Macbook Air...
• deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
• kibwen 3y ago
  > I want to do it all on my iPad. I hope that one day I’ll be able to. But why, though? The author never bothers to justify this. If you acknowledge that your tablet is so anemic that you have to bring your laptop with you, why not save the weight of the tablet and just bring the laptop?
• TheCapeGreek 3y ago
  This post and the comments here make me think of two things: 1. Digital minimalism can be extended to hardware. Buying the most generalist machines for every possible use case is what leads to having all this clunkiness when you travel. Think deeply on your hardware scenario and optimise for that. You might save some money in the process too. E.g. I moved from a desktop + decent dev laptop to just an M1 MBP and a Steam Deck - primarily for portability and battery resilience during power cuts. I've recently also ditched my mech keyboard for a smaller wireless one I can travel with. 2. I do kind of wish we'd get more desktop devices in a tablet form factor - "Bring your own keyboard" sort of thing. I don't even care about having a touch screen.
• collsni 3y ago
  Microsoft Surface
• ChrisLTD 3y ago
  The author isn’t willing to ‘declare the “use iPad to get work done” experiment dead’, but I am. If a blogger and podcaster can’t use the now 13-year-old iPad platform for his work, what hope is there for the rest of us?
• mwidell 3y ago
  Tried using an iPad pro as a workstation. Terrible ergonomics. iPadOS multitasking is a terrible experience. USB-C transfer speeds were bad. Overall very disappointed with the experience. Went back to Macbook Pro after a couple of weeks of pain.
• bradgranath 3y ago
  My mom has Macular Degeneration and can no longer read sms messages even on a phablet size screen. Wanna have a phone number or receive SMS on an cellular equiped iPad? Well, fuck you, that's not allowed.
• fHr 3y ago
  Galaxy tab S with android is going into the right direction with the desktopextension function but as long as so many buy apple and it's completly unusable they will not adapt in any way.
• millzlane 3y ago
  I suppose the writer will have to wait a few more years before apple 'reinvents' the touch screen and convinces everyone they invented the touchscreen laptop. Notice how just about every other manufacture has a touch screen offering. The same was true for DVD writers back when apple called it the super drive. Many devices on the market came with DVD writers. The ipad pro as great as it is, will not replace a Macbook. Sure it can do similar things, but for professionals who only need one app and email for work or for grandmas that don't need much it certainly can be the only device. But it cannot do everything that a laptop can do and that's why most people need both a (tablet and a computer) The surface pro devices are on their 9th generation. This is what you want if you want to travel with a tablet only experience that you are able to do laptop stuff with. Sure the tablet experience is miserable but tolerable. The only things mac users are missing is IOS/MacOS. Which I admit is a big miss. Let's be honest, the Mac OS is great it's always been the hardware that has been lacking in other areas. But the surface device is a full blown computer that runs a full desktop OS and can virtualize others. If your workflow allows for a windows device,and if you like learning and trying new stuff, you will most likely enjoy your experience. Otherwise you will be as miserable as a die hard windows user who is angry that CTRL+V is CMD+V. If devtools are the only thing keeping you with macOS then you owe it to yourself to checkout WSL[1] and the new windows terminal app[2]. [1] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install [2] https://github.com/microsoft/terminal https://github.com/microsoft/terminal
  • hackpelican 3y ago
    I hope Apple never releases a touch screen MacBook. MacOS is the only operating system that still has UI elements appropriately sized for mouse use. Everything else uses huge buttons to account for touch use-cases.
    • clhodapp 3y ago
      My (general purpose) Linux machines and Chromebook all have reasonably sized UI elements for mouse use.
    • millzlane 3y ago
• post_break 3y ago
  The only thing my iPad has going for it is cellular. If they would put a cellular modem into a Mac laptop I’d be thrilled.
• newaccount74 3y ago
  The biggest issue I have with iOS is that it absolutely sucks at multitasking. If you want to one task (eg. take notes, watch a movie, make a sketch) then it is great. Even the files app is good enough now to quickly find some document when you need it. But it becomes unusable as soon as you switch between tasks. On the Mac, I can just move some windows to the side, work on a different task, then go back to what I was doing before. My work is waiting for me right where I left it. Advanced users can even use spaces for switching between tasks. On iOS, I need to go to every app that I used and try to return to the previous state, at which point I'm so annoyed that I'm switching back to the Mac.
• EricE 3y ago
  I tried the iPad only lifestyle with the original iPad Pro - stuck with it for almost a full year. In the end the abysmal text editing and extreme restrictions when multitasking drove me to distraction. Thankfully the M1 MacBooks fixed the battery, size, weight and heat issues of the Intel based laptops. And yeah, if you have the magic keyboard/trackpad text editing is a lot better - but at that point you might as well just have the full laptop.