42 ms·

The day Windows died

• pigbearpig 4y ago
  Is there a windows edition that shuts this stuff off, like some enterprise sku?
  • josephcsible 4y ago
    If your home improvement store reintroduced lead and asbestos into the products they sell today, and then created a new premium product line without them, would you pony up for the latter, or would you take your business elsewhere?
  • haunter 4y ago
    Windows 10 LTSC. It has nothing just the base system + Edge preinstalled
  • DrThunder 4y ago
    Yes, the education and enterprise editions.
• uberman 4y ago
  Something smells off about this. The author pulled an old laptop from under their desk and was able to install windows 11? Not likely in my experience. How did the author even get a windows 11 install since they claim they have not used windows since version 8. Will any win8 laptop even support an upgrade to 11? I doubt it. Why not get linux running on the old laptop. Mint likely installs just fine. I'm not saying win 11 is great and frankly none of the systems I have will even install it as they do not meet the requirements just that I find the set up to be sus.
  • the__alchemist 4y ago
    I think there's some ambiguity re Windows 11 hardware reqs. I was unable to upgrade an older laptop, with it labeled as "not supported" (Older Surface Pro), but I was able to do a clean install from USB.
  • PaulHoule 4y ago
    I'd say though that the complaint about having TikTok preinstalled, plus the trashy tabloid news, plus the endless begging for you to use Teams does ring true and it is something that Microsoft needs pushback against.
  • pcdoodle 4y ago
    you can easily install 11 on any hardware using rufus (gets rid of TPM2 req.) I agree with the article too. Windows is dead.
  • tpmx 4y ago
    > The author pulled an old laptop from under their desk The blog post doesn't say it was old. Did you misread So far, I have only used it a couple of times to debug old software I wrote long ago that needed some fixes ?
    • uberman 4y ago
      Sure, my misread of what they said. However they as you say stored it in a drawer under their desk and only used it to debug software written long ago. They also said the last time they used windows was version 8. I think it perfectly reasonable to conclude the laptop ran windows 8. Otherwise if it ran windows 10 the author would have said the last time they used windows it was version 10.
      • tpmx 4y ago
        > They also said the last time they used windows was version 8. No, they say Windows 8 was the last version I used daily.
        • smcin 4y ago
          The OP didn't say it at all clearly, but reading between their lines they had used Win10, but since Win8 had moved to MacBooks and MacOS as their preferred daily platform: > Win8 was the last version I used daily. It was when I moved from web development to mobile development, which wasn't (and still isn't) possible to do without a Mac when targeting iOS. One day I decided it would be worth making the switch as I had developed an aversion to the new Metro UI of Windows [8] anyway. > ...never looked back since. I stopped buying new laptops every few months and got myself a new MacBook every few years instead. >Win11: ... "I already knew from Win10 that some diagnostics settings could no longer be switched off permanently."
  • jmkni 4y ago
    The author never uses the word ‘old’ in regards to the laptop.
    • uberman 4y ago
      Technically no, however it was in a drawer under their desk, they only used it to debug software written long ago and they state they have not used windows since version 8.
      • deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  • viraptor 4y ago
    > How did the author even get a windows 11 install From Microsoft? https://www.microsoft.com/software-download/windows11 https://www.microsoft.com/software-download/windows11
    • uberman 4y ago
      If you were going to download an os to install that you wanted your kid to be able to tinker with and reinstall and you had not used windows in 8 to 10 years why would you download windows 11 rather than ubuntu or Mint?
      • antod 4y ago
        That is the whole point of the article. Based on their old Windows skills and experience (and having no Linux experience?), they thought they knew what they were going to get with a newer Windows install. The article is all about how shocked they were when they didn't get what they were expecting. I suspect they'll be trying out a Linux distro now though...
      • Mike_12345 4y ago
        Windows 11 will run on a Dell laptop from 2015. That is an 8 year old laptop. That OS is used by millions of people. It is loaded with obnoxious advertising and news. Nothing false in this article. There have been countless complaints about this crap forced into Windows 11.
    • judge2020 4y ago
      I think their argument is that most laptops from the W8 days don't support W11 mainly because of the processor requirements and check. Although the author could've burned the image to a USB disk with Rufus which has defaults that remove the W11 pre-checks during flash.
  • fortran77 4y ago
    I agree. It smelled funny to me, too.
    • Dylan16807 4y ago
      Marketing from who? This really isn't apple's style and doesn't much benefit them, and I can't think of any other company that would be motivated.
  • superchroma 4y ago
    I've done it. You need to edit the registry during install and it's all fine.
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
• avazhi 4y ago
  Windows 11 is horrendous but so is this article. I've installed Windows 11 on probably 10 machines and I've never seen 'TikTok' preinstalled but assuming that it can be in certain regions it really isn't that difficult to remove the default bloatware apps. As for the rest of the problems this guy mentions, has he ever heard of Group Policy? Even if you're on a version that doesn't have access to GPEdit, what about the Registry? Windows 11 has a fuckload of problems and is objectively a step or 12 backwards in terms of configurability, but this article doesn't really sell the problems very well IMO.
  • josephcsible 4y ago
    > has he ever heard of Group Policy? Doesn't Group Policy only work in Pro, which costs $100 to upgrade to? Even if you're rich enough to afford that without thinking twice, do you really want to reward Microsoft with more money for their bad behavior?
    • Karliss 4y ago
      It's a bit worse. While Group policy requires at least the pro version of windows , many of group policy settings for disabling this junk only work in enterprise and educational versions of windows.
  • NickNameNick 4y ago
    I built a new desktop last week. One of the first things I did once windows was installed was go through the start menu uninstalling things. Including tiktok.
  • __oh_es 4y ago
    Just bought an asus machine for work and Ive had the same experience as the author. Gpedit isn’t available on the home edition and you’re plagued with notifications, tabloids, apps that should be mobile apps and I would argue, ironically, have no place in a home. I cant be bothered to upgrade to pro or linux as the machine is just a host for vmware horizons but lets see when the first major update happens.
• tonymet 4y ago
  I’m not a big fan of these features and i turn them off right away. MS is going to where the consumers are. anyone under 30 will expect this content . imagine a 20 year old using windows 2k and the only real apps are notepad and ms paint . We give companies too much blame for providing consumers what they want. MS could do a better job with transparency and control of these features. But i don’t believe the blame is being put in the right place . also the hyperbole is too much
  • sureglymop 4y ago
    As a 23 year old, no idea what you mean. That seems more targeted towards < 20 (tiktok) and > 65 (those news) if you ask me.
    • tonymet 4y ago
      That's great, and we have a lot in common, but the audience isn't like us
  • Denvercoder9 4y ago
    > anyone under 30 will expect this content I'm under 30, and I absolutely do not expect my OS to push this crap on me.
    • tonymet 4y ago
      An army of one
  • masswerk 4y ago
    Haven't we already handed over phones for this? And, if you really want a phone, well, there are phones for this… (No need to put an end to computers. Why would you even transition to a computer to watch TikTok?)
    • tonymet 4y ago
      Yes and that means desktops are competing with phones for attention / time spent. So i would expect even more content & apps to show up on the desktop
• m3kw9 4y ago
  Yeah even windows 10 have the dumazz tabloid news preonstalled, it’s like a really shady carrier installing all sorts of crap on a androud
• doctor_eval 4y ago
  Having never lived in a Windows world I had no idea what life was like on the other side. So many times on HN I read about how MacOS is bad for the user, locked down, rubbish etc etc. But if this article is true then Windows 11 is absolutely insane. That is what anti consumer looks like. Not SIP. Not poor documentation. Not first party apps. While those of us who use Apple’s OS fear for the worst, those in Windows appear to be receiving it. (But I definitely agree that news apps have no place on a desktop and I have had very bad news headlines pop up on my kids screens. Please Apple, turn this stupid default off, or give us an option at install time).
  • josephcsible 4y ago
    > That is what anti consumer looks like. Not SIP. It's not an either-or. Both of those are super anti-consumer. If you want an OS without anti-consumer "features", then install Linux.
    • surgical_fire 4y ago
      I recently moved back to Linux, perhaps permanently. What kept me from it was not being able to reliably play games, but I can confirm that is no longer a problem. I can't properly describe how happy this makes me.
      • pedalpete 4y ago
        What distro did you go for? I'm thinking about moving to linux, I'm avoiding a Windows 11 upgrade, and am not a fan of mac.
        • surgical_fire 4y ago
          Mint, because I'm a filthy casual :) I just love Mint, but I think any Debian based distro should work just fine for playing.
          • acegopher 4y ago
• drpixie 4y ago
  > Some people recommended tools to me which can be used to switch most of those things off. But honestly: How do you trust a system (or its manufacturer) if you can't even know if those settings, which you deliberately chose, persist? No doubt you've all noticed how your carefully crafted config gets trashed by routine window's updates %#%$$#%#! If you use windows, you're pushing against a company that 1) you've given complete control of your computer, and 2) has very different intentions and priorities to you.
  • judge2020 4y ago
    What configs are you talking about? Because most things in the official UIs are carefully crafted to be permanent user preferences that windows updates don't touch.
    • josephcsible 4y ago
      If this is a good-faith question, then I assume you don't use Windows as your primary OS. After most major Windows updates, you'll see new crapware in the Start menu and get nagged to set up a Microsoft account and have your default programs switched back to the Microsoft ones, no matter how many times you said "no, and never ask again" before.
      • drpixie 4y ago
        Yup. I even find network (!!) settings disappearing or changing. (shakes head sadly)
      • aksss 4y ago
        Can’t say I’ve had this experience. I run one computer on insider builds and another on stock, neither seem to cause lost settings reset defaults, etc. New progs I guess rarely/infrequently.
      • MikusR 4y ago
        Windows is the only desktop OS i use and that does not happen.
• eganist 4y ago
  Microsoft has a habit of flipping settings back to stock, but so far as I know, this has never happened for group policy. I've been using GPOs to reliably flip things off in Windows 10 Can't speak to 11 but I imagine it's the same; GPOs are one of the few things Microsoft wants to make sure never break with an update given the market that uses them.
  • gerdesj 4y ago
    Well yes and no. Did you know you can't set your login wallpaper without an enterprise or education license via GPO? It won't tell you that's the problem when it doesn't work but it is at least documented in the GPO itself - so you need to notice that a pretty basic feature is POSH license only. I'm one of those rare people who actually read messages and docs and hence I eventually spotted it when roughly 20 people diagnosing a snag had not. I'm also the PHB (actually I have very little hair) so, in your face: Dilbert. Features that are offered but silently fail is wankery of the first order to add to your flipping back of settings - hello again Edge you fucking numpty!
  • slowmovintarget 4y ago
    I can't tell you how relieved I was when Windows Update pronounced my gaming desktop as not cool enough for Windows 11.
    • Nextgrid 4y ago
      I've heard that TPMs are mandatory for Windows 11 - if so, those can typically be disabled in the BIOS and this can be used to prevent unattended upgrades.
  • vt240 4y ago
    Yeah, I really feel for people here. I've been maintaining GPOs since Windows 2003 in our small business, and I never run into any of the issues most of these posts are dealing with. I download the policy files, flip the settings around so they work for our employees, and forget what most users have to deal with... If there's not someone in the loop, dealing with the problems.
• tester756 4y ago
  Windows 11 start menu search is slowest shit i've ever seen I can't stand when I type app name (e.g paint or vs) and it appears but click needs like 5-10 sec to be registered what the hell It worked perfectly fine on Win10 on the same hardware (my OS has been updated recently either automatically or by company). I'd call Windows 11 pretty OK once you tweak one or two things in register settings, maybe the lack of right click menu on task bar sucks (e.g show desktop), but search being slow is ridiculous, it should be blazingly fast
  • nashashmi 4y ago
    It worked perfectly fine in windows 7. And then it got screwed up in windows 10.
    • amiga-workbench 4y ago
      Yup, even on a slow machine with a mechanical drive you could blind type the first 3 letters of a program name and slam the enter key. The search filtering was so quick it would have completed the operation in time for your enter key-press to be registered. Try the same thing on 10 or 11 and you're probably going to end up with a new edge window running a Bing search.
      • Moggie100 4y ago
        Heck, it's bad even on reasonably fast machines like my surface pro. I've recently found that if I "blind type" a search query at my normal (very fast) input speed, it actually enters the keypresses _before_ loading fully, blinks the correct app up for about 1 frame, then resets the input field to nothing! Argh.
    • mostlysimilar 4y ago
      Truly, what has happened here? Windows search was so good circa 7. It is astoundingly awful in 10.
      • tacker2000 4y ago
• Waterluvian 4y ago
  Is there any rock solid program that effortlessly lets me shut off contentious “features”? Ie. no unreliable registry mucking or other stuff. I just want to open an application and begin unchecking checkboxes.
  • invalidator 4y ago
    Shutup10 is a good start.
    • yazzku 4y ago
      Link: https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 Except that Windows updates will turn the stuff back on over time, so I'm not sure about 'effortlessly'.
  • haunter 4y ago
    https://wpd.app/ https://wpd.app/
• bee_rider 4y ago
  I use 10, but only as essentially a glorified console. Time for work? Time to boot into the Linux partition. I look vaguely fondly back on XP, 98, and 95… but at least, XP was pretty bad with frequent crashes. And of course the idea of security was added on afterwards, which was not really successful and kind of a dumb idea. Anyway I think the death-date of Windows is essentially a personal thing. It is the first day you look at it with at all a critical eye.
  • surgical_fire 4y ago
    I installed Mint here. RetroArch works like a charm. Steam games are surprisingly smooth thanks to Proton - some games require some minor tinkering to work, but I am amazed at how well it works. I got even games from other stores that don't officially support Proton (such as GoG) to work with the help of Lutris. If Windows for you is just a console, might be time to re-evaluate on that. I don't even hate Windows btw. I was using 10 and it worked mostly fine to my tastes, especially with WSL. But Linux is just so much better in every way.
    • bee_rider 4y ago
      I did Linux gaming for a bit. The main annoyance was getting all the sound settings to work with… I guess it must have been Skype at the time, or maybe Google Hangouts or something… so I could play multiplayer games with friends. This would have been more than a decade ago, so I believe you if you say it is pretty good nowadays. Might check back. I know Discord runs OK on Linux.
      • surgical_fire 4y ago
        For a long time I had Linux in Dual boot, cursing at how unfortunate it was that I couldn't really play games there. Even games that had Linux builds often had those as afterthoughts, with bugs not present in the main windows version. Now I can just play the Windows version through Proton. I hope that if Linux gains traction Proton becomes unnecessary, but I'm happy that Proton came as far as it is. Honestly, to play old Windows games it is probably better than Windows. A few games required some minor tinkering to work, but have been pretty smooth here. If you enjoy playing the latest AAA (that probably takes a while until it gets supported), I would say that you'd better stay on Windows. Otherwise, Linux is more than a viable alternative right now.
• KingLancelot 4y ago
  [dead]
• mikerg87 4y ago
  It’s not Windows. It’s the broken social contract the entire PC industry has in believing it’s ok flood us with ads and surveillance driven “marketing”. Any retail PC is a sewer of bloat and crap ware.
  • MBCook 4y ago
    People want low prices, and care about little else. Possibly because it’s simply one of the easiest to understand metrics. How does a Ryzen 4678v compare to an i12363k? I follow computers and have no idea. Price matters a lot even if you do know all the ultra-technical things. How do you make computers cheaper than the next guy? Subsidizing. Who will pay? Ads and internet companies. People complain Apple stuff is overpriced. It’s not subsidized by Intel or AMD or Candy Crush or TMZ. Yeah they like their profit margins (especially upgrades). But they only shill for themselves (which IS getting annoying). They’re not angels. Still sounds better than that experience to me. Without a privacy law to make data collection illegal or something to make junk legally easy to remove… this is where the race to the bottom goes. It’s just like what happened to TVs. You can’t buy a consumer model at any price that doesn’t suck. $4500? Still tracks you and wants to push apps.
    • hakfoo 4y ago
      I always found it interesting how every business that used to sell a product based on demonstratable customer value and quality user experiences wants to instead cling to the ad industry. Whether or not there's a little more money to be had there now is somewhat irrelevant. The bigger deal is that advertising is a hyper-fickle industry, very much subject to tossing out babies, bathwater, bathtubs, and entire metropolitan water infrastructures in a single fell swoop. There's a clear and identifiable risk factor here. Somewhere, at the end of the line, there's someone actually writing checks for to ad service providers, who's going to ask "We're spending (collectively) 829 kazillion dollars to feed these adtech gigaunicorns, basically out of FOMO that we had to be more data-driven than our competitiors. Did this actually move $829 kazillion more Pepsi than just running a 30-second TV spot with a hot boy band would have?" When the bubble bursts, how many otherwise viable products are going to implode because they've become too financially dependent on ad/data sales, or have become so eroded by the compromises for ads that they won't be able to recover their reputation after the adpocalypse?
• jimbobimbo 4y ago
  The obsession with monetization will put otherwise good system to grave. I used all Windows versions over all these years, but even my patience is wearing thin. Search, Bing, search, Bing! In every effing square inch of screen real estate they can get their hands on.
• asveikau 4y ago
  On the topic of setting up a PC for a kid: I set up Debian for my 9 year old. I put Mate desktop, since I remembered mid 2000s gnome to be ok. She has no complaints about it.
• WalterBright 4y ago
  I just stick with Windows 7.
  • josephcsible 4y ago
    This is horribly insecure (unless your system is totally air-gapped), now that 7 is EOL. If you're unwilling to put up with Windows 11, then you should switch to Linux.
    • WalterBright 4y ago
      I use Linux mostly. I'm aware that 7 is insecure, as is every version of Windows.
    • userbinator 4y ago
      That's just a bunch of FUD to keep you on their leash. Security is always an excuse. If you don't do things like downloading and running random executables or letting every site you visit run JS by default, you've already reduced your attack surface to the point of being a non-issue unless you're being specifically targeted. In fact W11 probably has more insecure shit you didn't know about yet. As much as I also use Linux and advocate its benefits, there's a huge amount of software that still doesn't work right there (even with WINE.)
    • netsharc 4y ago
      Windows 7 Extended Security Updates were still there until January 2023, and if you know where to look, there's a guy, I believe he's Ukranian(1), who's been providing the ESU updates for mortals (non-corporate users). But yeah, "Download an EXE provided by a mysterious man to keep your OS 'secure'." isn't really a safe policy. https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/windows-it-pro-blog/update-extended-security-updates-for-windows-7-and-windows/ba-p/1872910 https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/windows-it-pro-blog/u... (1) The EXEs are signed with a digital signature where the signer's address is Kherson, Ukraine.
  • DizzyDoo 4y ago
    I liked Windows 7 a lot too, only switched to 10 when it got to end-of-life.
• noobermin 4y ago
  While it has its issues, this is where Linux does still shine. It keeps the spirit of computing free alive and well.
  • acidburnNSA 4y ago
    Yup! And it's not even hard or complex. I got my mom running Ubuntu 2 years ago and he's doing great. Word processing in Libreoffice, she can even save a PDF and attach it to email using thunderbird. She's absolutely not by any means a computer power-user. But she's scanning, printing, word processing, browsing the web, watching youtube how-tos about lawn equipment, banking, etc. I can remote in if needed to show her something, but she doesn't need me to.
  • oriettaxx 4y ago
    not all Linux (I do not like Ubuntu, exactly for their approach to their advs)
• cjblack 4y ago
  It's infuriating how much work one has to do to clean up what should already be a bare-bones, stock, factory environment. All of these 8 kb "apps" like LinkedIn, TikTok, etc. that you "uninstall" but then re-appear right in the Add or Remove Programs menu. I haven't tried, but what do these little TikTok, LinkedIn apps even do? I imagine they don't install a local version of LinkedIn to peruse, right? I don't totally understand how the economic incentive for MSFT and manufacturers can be high enough to make these actively user-hostile actions worth it. Maybe I'm cynical or naive
  • LelouBil 4y ago
    They just redirect you to the Microsoft store page for the application
  • intrasight 4y ago
    Just use Windows Server as your desktop like the rest of us hackers.
  • abliefern 4y ago
    I've never seen those apps on my machine, very strange. Is this an OEM choice?
    • dev_daftly 4y ago
      Yea, people are confusing what comes in windows by default with what is added by the OEM as most of them have never installed a fresh copy of windows.
      • grantsh 4y ago
        I installed a fresh copy of windows straight from the official ISO a month or two ago and was bombarded with candy crush, tiktok, CNN, instagram, LinkedIn, etc. It took me a few solid hours to get it out of my way as much as possible. After that, even on my brand new Ryzen 9, it took 15 seconds to open a web browser. I decided to quit my windows-only games and delete windows in favor of Linux (like usual). It's not just OEM installs, perhaps you got windows a few versions back and updated it avoiding the new bloatware crap.
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• 000ooo000 4y ago
  I don't have a computing-age child yet, but I aim to steer them down the Linux road. I've been given 3-4 Macbooks over the years which are now far too old to run modern macOS at any reasonable level of performance, but I suspect they will run Ubuntu etc just fine and make a decent first machine. Maybe starting out in this environment will also prompt the same curiosity that I developed which led into confidence/skill/a career, just by having access to settings and the like (which seem to be increasingly stowed away or removed altogether). I also hope that starting out in Linux instills the same "ugh, GTFO my machine" response in them that I get when I encounter the kind of default/forced cruft the OP did.
• phoenixreader 4y ago
  Tik Tok and Instagram are not actually installed on Windows 11 by default. They just appear in the Start Menu as logos, because so many people install them manually. They only begin installation once you click on the logos. News on search bar cannot be defended though.
  • MrStonedOne 4y ago
    [dead]
• siggen 4y ago
  I have thought about this myself quite a bit: Should I or should I not filter the world for my kids? Back then, as a kid, computers/Internet allowed me to access an unfiltered world. It was great! I didn’t like adults restricting what information I had or didn’t have, nurturing their own agenda in me. I am leaning to not filter what my kids will have access to... but I suppose this fulfills my agenda.
  • burnished 4y ago
    It feels like the purpose of most communication on the internet has changed from sharing an idea to making a buck. Dont the big money makers hire psychologists to help them figure out how to 'drive user engagement'? I feel like there is a difference between letting your kid browse through a library that contains the anarchist cookbook and letting your kid loose in a casino which I think maps to old internet/new internet. Old internet had dangerous information but individuals tended to be treated as an end in themselves, new internet tends to treat individuals as a means to an end.
• qbasic_forever 4y ago
  Setup your 10 year old with bleeding edge Arch Linux, add a script to automatically update nightly (or even hourly lol), and give them a secondary device like a tablet loaded up with access to arch wiki, every man page, etc. but nothing else. They will be an absolute Linux wizard in months and maybe a core contributor soon after.
  • snvzz 4y ago
    Doubtful. Setting it up for him means passing up on an opportunity for him to learn by doing it himself. Automatic upgrades means passing up on another such opportunity. Not a good way to start.
  • afavour 4y ago
    And they won’t be able to complete their school work
    • deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    • qbasic_forever 4y ago
      Arguably they'll be learning more valuable skills than some of the schoolwork teaches.
      • JoeJonathan 4y ago
        I can't tell if you're kidding
        • intrasight 4y ago
          He did say "some"
      • bobbylarrybobby 4y ago
        Computers are tools. You're supposed to learn them because they make you better at something else. There is no virtue in being a Linux wizard; if anything it's a stain on Linux that wizards are even a thing.
• throwaway675309 4y ago
  "I have never looked back since. I stopped buying new laptops every few months and got myself a new MacBook every few years instead. I stopped counting crashes and dealing with anti-virus" This is a quote around them using Win 7/8. There's definitely some hyperbole going on here, because I and many others found Windows 7 to be a relatively stable environment and I say this as a prolific user of Photoshop, visual studio, and ableton. The idea that he's buying new laptops every few months rather discredits this article. I had a dell Inspiron that lasted about two years, and after that I purchased a IBM T530 that lasted nearly 5 years. Post Windows 10 LTSC, I've abandoned windows completely though.
  • Beached 4y ago
    I have never had a laptop last less than 3 years. and I would definitely consider myself a power user. wtf is he doing to his laptops that they only last a few months?
  • 300bps 4y ago
    The idea that he's buying new laptops every few months rather discredits this article. I agree that statement in the article was completely ridiculous. The overarching point though of the over-commercialization of Windows stands as completely legitimate. I've used Windows (and modems) a decade longer than the the OP, have been a fairly strong supporter of Windows but I've about had enough myself. Microsoft isn't alone in this - Google's constant whining about not using Chrome on their web properties is just as pathetic. Microsoft, you're worth $2.15 trillion. You are violating your fiduciary duty to shareholders by prioritizing extremely short-term revenue gains over long term viability of the platform. You are jeopardizing that long term viability of the platform by annoying and spying on your user base so you can make pennies from them. It is a veritable "kill the goose that lays the golden eggs" situation.
  • lannisterstark 4y ago
    I have a thinkpad T430 that's still going strong closer to a decade. Works fine, is fast etc.
    • 4y ago
• mr_woozy 4y ago
  Windows 7 was the last possible usable version as far as I´m concerned. When Steam sunsets support in 2024 I´ll most likely switch to Ubuntu. Windows 8-11 are just untenable choices and we should all just realize this.
  • bobsil1 4y ago
    Agree Win7 was the last usable. Ubuntu is great / fast but the UX feels like bad Mac clone, 5 years later.
    • ta1243 4y ago
      I see people complain about "the" UI in linux distros all the time. I don't understand. Ubuntu itself has several options- LXQt, xfce, kde and Gnome. I've used xfce as my desktop for the last decade or so, before that it was fluxbox/blackbox, and before that enlightenment. Looking at other people's screens at FOSDEM there's till plenty of choice in UI
      • mr_woozy 4y ago
        [dead]
• UberFly 4y ago
  Using LTSC or Enterprise is keeping me on Windows. If those weren't an option for me and my family I'd be gone to Linux. I don't know how anyone uses the "Home" edition. I guess they don't know better.
  • haunter 4y ago
    +1 for LTSC
• thombles 4y ago
  I bought my child an old Celeron running Windows 98SE, about 7 years in advance of when they’ll be ready for it. They’ll get the experience of playing with Paint, installing software from CDs, digital encyclopaedias, Commander Keen, all that good stuff without the internet. Then when they’re a bit older they can choose their own least-worst option.
  • nkotov 4y ago
    Doing something similar but with an iMad G3 - no direct internet access before they are in school.
• fwlr 4y ago
  Being around colleges, I have heard MacBooks derisively referred to as “$2000 Facebook machines” - the hardware is there to render videos, edit photos, compose music, build software, etc., but all the user wants to do with it is browse Facebook. From this discordance arises derision. Maybe the derision for Windows is in some way the inverse: users want to do all that other stuff, but the OS just wants you browse Facebook (TikTok, Twitter, news sites, …).
  • natnatenathan 4y ago
    I will say the cost of MacBooks has fallen through the floor with the new Apple Silicon. My M1 MacBook Air was $1,100 for 16/1TB. I'm not sure how much good Windows laptops go for these days.
    • unnouinceput 4y ago
      Last time I bought laptops was for my kids at beginning of pandemic. They used them for school and stuff for the past 3 years. Both costed $500 each and they still use them to this day. Though I went for a Ryzen 7 instead of Intel, so maybe that's why I got that good of a deal.
    • deafpolygon 4y ago
      > My M1 MacBook Air was $1,100 for 16/1TB. Are you serious? It's precisely 1908,85 euros right now for an M1 Macbook Air with 16G ram 1TB storage, and I'm in northern Europe. That's over 2k usd. A baseline M2 Macbook Air is 1515 euros for 8GB ram 256GB storage. Bumping that to 16g ram and 1TB storage is 2210 euros. NOT cheap.
• joeman1000 4y ago
  I was thinking about this yesterday after reading a lot about Kay’s Dynabook & watching him speak about it a lot. I think the author is spot-on about windows being a terrible environment for kids. Same with the iPad, sadly. The iPad is sort of close to Kay’s vision of the Dynabook, but obviously too locked down to allow the necessary creativity. I think some sort of single-board computer running whatever flavour of Linux should do quite well for kids. When they get into gaming, you can help them do a custom build and have something like Manjaro on it. I’m sure Valve’s proton work will be able to handle anything by that time (referring to the author’s ten-year-old child). I grew up with windows. Started with win95, then I got my dad’s old HP laptop running XP. The damn thing weighed about 10kg. Went on to vista, then built my own pc at about 15, running win7. I think that was about the last windows computer I used full-time. My parents bought me a nice MacBook Pro in 2011 when I was 16. The relative ‘elegance’ of OSX and the hardware made a big impression on me. Windows, by comparison, felt as though it was half-baked and not well crafted. It’s vague, but that’s all I understood as a kid. I was lucky for this revelation. With win10 and 11, it just got worse and worse, and today windows is spyware as far as I’m concerned. I have a modest build running win10 for playing TF2, but that’s all I can bear using that system for. All other gaming is done on the Steam Deck. Full computing history out of the way, I definitely agree with the author. Modern windows is a cesspool and such a bad place for kids. Better off getting them a SBC or an apple machine.
• gfody 4y ago
  > How do you trust a system (or its manufacturer) if you can't even know if those settings, which you deliberately chose, persist? you'll want the kid to be able to reinstall from scratch as a list ditch "fix" for whatever they "broke" and learning to spot deceptively hidden/chosen defaults is a requisite for effectively using windows - the os installer is obligated to give you a crash course
• andremedeiros 4y ago
  Microsoft has basically become a hostile software company. All of this aggressive and constant insistence to use their stuff just so that some line on some VP’s graph goes up. This is what we get when incentives are misaligned.
• bawolff 4y ago
  Its funny, adware used to be such a big problem in the windows ecosystem, and then MS was like - what if we do this to ourselves instead.
• superchroma 4y ago
  "windows is dead because it has ads in the start menu (that you can turn off), it ships with unwanted apps and doesn't ship with properly free games" Profound, truly. This is of course completely forgetting the era when every prebuilt would ship with crapware, completely omitting the fact that via giveaways on places like GoG and EGS, children have access to more free games in one year than I was bought in my entire childhood and completely forgetting that there are more mature, free options to master a craft on your computer than ever before if you are so inclined to do so (blender, godot, unreal engine, unity, krita, visual studio, etc..) (not to mention a rich ecosystem of help for all of these, and normalized services like the internet generally that is cheap enough to be ubiquitous). This guy evidently didn't ever know what it was like to grow up as a kid with computers, to be stuck with stock windows XP and a handful of games you had played to absolute death, with no means and parents who wouldn't buy any tool or app on the internet as it was inconceivable to do so, dicking around with MS Paint as the image editor of last resort, with big dreams and no prospects. I became merely familiar with computers as I was left alone with them for long enough to break several of them out of boredom. Meanwhile, I learned crafts (coding, 3D modelling, etc.) through my schooling, particularly university and an internship. Windows basically hasn't changed, is the reality. We killed computing as a race through Android and IOS. Kids today aren't even spending time with computers anymore. That's the problem. The stab at TikTok here hides an underlying unspoken critique that such apps have sucked out attentions so completely that people aren't thinking about what they run on anymore. This article completely misses the point.
  • magpi3 4y ago
    >This is of course completely forgetting the era when every prebuilt would ship with crapware This was a clean Windows install, not one that came from an OEM. Clean Window installs at least used to be exactly that: they came with nothing but Windows.
    • superchroma 4y ago
      Yes, I read the article. The reality is that buying prebuilt was and still is a working-class family experience. It's all we ever did until I grew up and built my own. Today, many kids are given laptops instead of towers. Those are prebuilt too, and they all ship with windows (and junk) installed.
• jakub_g 4y ago
  > Next: Casual games. Minesweeper, Solitaire… who didn't waste time with those in the 1990s? Now they are cluttered with in-app purchase offerings. Wat? What are the purchases in Minesweeper and Solitaire? (My old laptop can't get Win11, thankfully I guess). Anyone could screenshot?
  • wang_li 4y ago
    Solitaire in windows 10 has ads. If you want to disable, you’ve got to pay.
    • johnwalkr 4y ago
      Not only ads but also lots of fluff. I just opened it for the first time in a while and it had to load a new EULA. it took almost 30s to get into a game. Once you’re in there is an XP system, and notifications to get a subscription or buy card designs. Ironically it costs $2.99 to get the windows xp card designs. Thankfully it’s easy to find the windows xp versions which were the best, and they still work.
  • oriettaxx 4y ago
    add to this that, even if you remove some of that junks, once you add a new user it all comes back (even with Windows 8 we are talking about a min of 15 totally useless so called "app")
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• chasing 4y ago
  I just had to set up the first Windows machine I’ve owned in 20 years. Between Windows 11 itself and the garbage the hardware manufacturer throw on there, it’s awful. Upsells everywhere. Horseshit I do not want clotting things up. After spending most of my time on macOS it was really quite shocking to see how atrocious things are on the Windows side. I’m sure you can eventually get things tuned how you want, but who’s going to trust an OS that so anti-user right out of the box?
  • llanowarelves 4y ago
    Yep. But since you have it, install Chocolatey, using that to manage these next programs (and more, i try to install all my apps through it): * Install O&O ShutUp to turn all that garbage off. The suggested settings there are pretty good. * Everything (yes, "Everything" is the name of the program) for actually useable (and good) search, since Windows search sucks for some reason (I can back up other commenters here). * Bulk Crap Uninstaller to really uninstall stuff (edit registry and delete leftover program files etc). You can use this to uninstall all the junk Windows installs automatically. There's lots of others but these are my go to. I have base of a bunch of packages and settings I like.
• localghost3000 4y ago
  I am sure I will get all kinds of hate for saying this: despite the extra up front cost, apple stuff is a better value. Lets take device lifetime: I have a 2013 MBP 15 and 2015 MBP 15. I use them for intensive things like music production. Both devices work flawlessly. I also a System 76 Oryx Pro which cost more than any mac I own. The webcam failed 5 months in, several keys don't work anymore, and it gets hotter than the surface of the sun when I ask it to do even moderate workloads. Its also ugly as shit. I don't really use it anymore. There is also resale value: I've been able to get at least a few hundred bucks for pretty much any apple device I've owned when I've sold it. My Oryx? No one wants that thing. Its gonna end up in a landfill at some point. In my experience, you pay more up front but you get more for your money in the long run.
  • intrasight 4y ago
    Perhaps better value hardware-wise - because of resale value. But until Linux is solid, you're still stuck with a lousy OS.
  • lannisterstark 4y ago
    Ever seen a thinkpad?
    • localghost3000 4y ago
      Yes. I own two. A t410 and a t450. Definitely more durable but no resale value. I use them for experimental linux installs these days.
      • lannisterstark 4y ago
        I tend not to see thinkpads for resale value, but I think they do fit with the "lasting the test of time" test. The parts are easily available, cheap, and virtually everything is user replaceable. It's great.
        • localghost3000 4y ago
• throw7 4y ago
  I'm surprised he didn't mention having to create an online microsoft account to login to his windows 11 pc.
  • mcmcmc 4y ago
    Probably because you don't have to, you can just skip that step and use a local profile
    • throw7 4y ago
      Microsoft made it much harder in Windows 11 (Home) and then later for even the Pro version. You have to unplug the network and/or drop to shell to run a bypass command.
• jimmaswell 4y ago
  Windows just gets better and better from a technical side. It's great if you don't care about the telemetry and such.
• stephc_int13 4y ago
  Not sure how much money they make with the pre-installed bloatware deals, I am guessing this is pocket change compared to their real business. Overall, Win11 is, in my opinion, the second best OS Microsoft ever released, the best one being the venerable NT4. But this is true that when installing it, there is some annoying cleaning work to be done, and this is clearly not good, especially for a -professional- tool. I don't have time for this now, but I plan to migrate everything on a good Linux distro at some point.
• dbg31415 4y ago
  I prefer Apple, but there are times when you can't get away from Windows. For those times I find the following tools really useful. But like the article says... its is hard to trust a company that build all this adware crap into my OS in the first place. =P * O&O ShutUp10++ – Free antispy tool for Windows 10 and 11 || https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 (I turn all the recommend options off, and then re-enable Clipboard History.) * GitHub - StevenBlack/hosts: Consolidating and extending hosts files from several well-curated sources. Optionally pick extensions for porn, social media, and other categories. || https://github.com/StevenBlack/hosts https://github.com/StevenBlack/hosts (And if you block things at the host level, remember to disable DNS Caching.) * How to disable Windows 10 DNS Cache services || https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/windows/en-US/a04284f9-cf27-4f37-82fe-31255f70625f/how-to-disable-windows-10-dns-cache-services https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/windows/en-US/a0... * Wise Program Uninstaller - Uninstall, Remove or Force Uninstall Programs Completely || https://www.wisecleaner.com/wise-program-uninstaller.html https://www.wisecleaner.com/wise-program-uninstaller.html
• mavu 4y ago
  Yep. It's a goner. It'll live on in corporate environments and XBoxes.
• reboot81 4y ago
  Bought a preowned lowend MBA for my 11 year old daughter recently. No shes not spoiled, her iPhone is an old hand me down with cracked screen. No way on earth I’d expose her to the cr*p from Redmond. Yes, I know what it’s like, my employer is a 99% Window environment.
• intrasight 4y ago
  40 years ago, I bought a Mac and my girlfriend bought a PC. She said of my mac "what a cute toy!" while hers was a "serious computer". It is incredible that 40 years later, one can have the same conversation!
• luxuryballs 4y ago
  Just set him up with Windows 10, it’s the new XP.
• userbinator 4y ago
  In the days of 9x/2k/XP there was quite a lot of interest in the Windows modding scene and some people came up with quite creative "distros" that heavily customised the Windows experience in one way or another (they were FUD'd to contain malware, but AFAIK there hasn't been any actual proof of that over all these years). It seems there's still some people doing that with Windows 11: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34654649 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34654649
• jemmyw 4y ago
  Windows died with the release of Vista. It no longer felt like Windows to me, it lost something fundamental. I switched to Mac at work and Linux at home shortly after that. I've tried it every couple of years since then and it has got worse each time.
  • technol0gic 4y ago
    Lol the first Mac I ever bought was simply because I wanted a new machine w/o Vista (bootcamp w/ XP), ended up using MacOS far more because it was less bloated.
• tw04032023 4y ago
  I'll bite. What are our options? Linux desktop environments are the worst out there and I for one am eternally grateful I don't have to deal with this stuff every day. Between X11/Wayland debacle, conscious effort to prevent anything resembling backward compatibility AND proper software distribution on the platform and a myriad of minor infuriating issues in each major desktop environment I cannot fathom why people are even bothered to complain about stuff like ads. And don't even get me started on non-user-facing issues. At this point I know enough about the innards of Linux I can barely tolerate it on my servers, and I swear I switch to BSD next time something like fsyncgate comes up. Although there are environments where I cannot opt out from Linux, sadly, so I guess I'll clench my teeth and try and bear with it. Apple takes the sweet spot of unbearability between user-hostile Linux and consumer-hostile Windows. I mean, I used to run with Mac for several years, but I didn't buy into the "ecosystem" - and most of my user experience was to learn how to do basic stuff _differently_ for apparently no reason, user-hostile enough. Then consumer-hostility comes up - who in their right mind could even conceive notarization? macOS is stable though, I'll give it that. But then I still don't trust Apple to do hardware besides iPhones. If you want a stable, fast desktop on hardware of your choice where everything just works (tm) get Windows. Just uninstall what you don't need, install what you need, configure DNS or get a Pi-hole or something to get rid of ads, complain on feedback channels and call it a day. While Windows is getting more and more consumer-hostile by the day we still don't have a viable alternative and it doesn't seem we will get one in my lifetime.
  • wharfjumper 4y ago
    This is not my experience either personally, or with my 70yo father in law, or employees all running Linux distros. The experience is excellent apart from battery life. My son who games on Windows hates its constant random 100% CPU usage and compulsory reboots.
    • tw04032023 4y ago
      Last time I checked (stock Ubuntu circa 2018) I couldn't even select files in the file manager with mouse selection rectangle if the view mode was set to table-like, like "Details" in Windows Explorer. This was my last straw, actually. I mean, how hard could this be to implement? How could they ship it without something basic like that? I am not sure about CPU usage, but I haven't experienced compulsory reboots on any of my two Windows PCs, both running Windows 10 Pro. I know reboots happen in the background from time to time because sometimes one of these wakes to a "blank slate" state, but hey, I can live with this.
• DennisP 4y ago
  Is Windows Pro the same way, or this only Home?
  • wtallis 4y ago
    Windows Pro editions are just as bad with the pre-installed crapware. And if you buy a PC from an OEM instead of doing a clean install on a machine you build, then that OEM will have added another layer of crapware. Even Windows 10 Pro these days will pre-populate the Start menu with tiles for Disney+, TikTok, etc.
• Jemm 4y ago
  These issues are not just in windows. Same can be said for Android, iOS, Mac....
• snozolli 4y ago
  First, there was news about a mass shooting that had occurred only recently. In the middle of the search menu. The menu which was supposed to be one of the first touch points with that computer for the kid. I don't know how anyone uses anything after Window 7 without something like Classic Shell: http://www.classicshell.net/ http://www.classicshell.net/
• steponlego 4y ago
  Give the kid an Apple II.
• markgall 4y ago
  I never used Windows in my life, but I got an old ThinkPad on eBay a couple months ago that shipped with Windows 11. I didn't have time to set up Linux, so I used it a bit to browse and so on for about a month before I finally got around to wiping it. It's really unpleasant. Aside from the ads, the battery life made me think I'd gotten a used computer with totally shot battery and I was ready to order a new one. Nope, after finally switching to Linux it lasts almost twice as long, with no special config whatsoever. I also kept getting random crashes requiring a reboot. I thought there might be bad memory or something. Nope, no issues whatsoever since putting Arch on. Would not recommend. I did kind of like the splash screen with world photos, I guess.
  • deely3 4y ago
    > I also kept getting random crashes requiring a reboot. I thought there might be bad memory or something. Nope, no issues whatsoever since putting Arch on. Huh, crashes on a clean system is VERY strange issue. Please just to be sure, check your power adapter, memory, and maybe logs. If possible. For me it looks like hardware issue. (I know, I know, it looks like I defending Windows. It really is.).
• nbzso 4y ago
  Hostile personal computing is here to stay. Dark patterns are prerequisite for commercial OS nowadays. Outside the usual "work" scenario, there is no sane tech person who is not aware of this and is not using Linux. The idea that Macs are somehow better is obvious when installing Little Snitch. These are the data hoarders for the common people. My kid will know what is a terminal before it touches iPad or iPhone.
  • A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
    I think you are right. I don't know the real demographics, but anecdotally most buddies seem to have been looking into alternatives over the past few years. Some went for fancish Unraid, some various linux flavors, but very few actually stayed on Windows. Proton certainly helped as gaming stopped being a valid reason. I used to think my own jump will be harder, but, well, I now run Windows maybe once a quarter. One of those times is to file taxes. Sadly, you are likely also right about the race to the bottom for the rest. Maybe it would be different if they cared, but they don't. I have tried to explain it to my wife many a time, but it was mostly a failure ( so now her new lappy runs decrappified Windows 10 ). Worse yet, the whole data economy has become ingrained. Just yesterday chick at a dealership joked to sign here so that everyone can get my phone number. After that, attended a birthday party, where host company had a provision in disclaimer that they can use any pictures captured on camera for their promotion should they so choose. I almost lost it. It has been normalized. And you can't even cross this shit out, because it is all 'standard form' on a PC and whatever teen is running the desk wouldn't give a shit even if they understood the issue. << My kid will know what is a terminal before it touches iPad or iPhone. It is funny. My kid loves keyboard. Maybe there is hope yet.
  • deely3 4y ago
    Bragging a bit? > My kid will know what is a terminal before it touches iPad or iPhone. Why? Why they should know terminal? > there is no sane tech person who is not aware of this and is not using Linux Whoa. Which Linux opensource phone your family use?
    • deafpolygon 4y ago
• andrewstuart 4y ago
  This means the CEO of Microsoft does not care about product. Impossible to imagine Steve Jobs littering MacOS with ads and crap ware.
  • mrweasel 4y ago
    There have been an increase in articles and blog posts about the sad state of the Windows desktop for the past year or so. What bothers me is that it doesn't appear that any journalists have attempted to get Microsofts take on this. It's just complaining, valid as it may be, but apparently Microsoft seems to believe that this is how it should be, and I'd really like to hear the CEO of Microsoft explain to me why a tool that's suppose to be about work and productivity now looks like a traveling carnival. Do they need to money, do they no longer see Windows as a tool for professionals?
    • revelio 4y ago
      Nadella clearly doesn't care. Windows is down to about 12% of their revenue and is probably shrinking, presumably it'd be a lot lower still without the ads and upsells. It reports into the office team! People care about where the growth is: Azure grows, Windows shrinks, and so Nadella moves Microsoft's best people over to the cloud. Unfortunately it's also pretty clear that the windows team is bored, visionless and drowning in tech debt. At work we ship software to Windows and it's astounding how buggy their API is, the horrific nature of the bugs and how slowly they get fixed (or never). You get the feeling it's a retirement home atmosphere for developers over there where little gets done and nobody notices. Nadella could probably turn things around if he wanted but the plague affects Apple too, just less severely. Desktops were once the frontier and a growing business, heavily fought over, then it became mobile, then AI. People don't believe there's any juice left to squeeze in revisiting better desktop tech. Google developed three operating systems: one never made it to desktop machines even though it could have done, one was simply chrome and nothing else, and one got stuck being permanently experimental. None of them contained much in the way of new ideas except Android But this is a pity. Desktops are where work gets done, where new tech is developed. They should get more investment than they do.
• ummonk 4y ago
  Maybe it's because I've been a longtime Mac user, but Windows 11 is the first time Windows has actually felt intuitive and usable to me. The only hard part was that I had to look up the whole oobe\bypassnro trick when installing so I wouldn't have to set up a Microsoft account. The other adware / junk is probably there of course, but at least it's unobtrusive enough it hasn't bothered me yet.
  • oriettaxx 4y ago
    > has actually felt intuitive and usable to me. a bit late, no doubt > it's unobtrusive enough it hasn't bothered me yet. it's all relative to what we are used to: it's nowadays super accepted to being interrupted by (loud) ads while watching a movie, it was not before (ask Fellini ) I have to spend a lot of hours cleaning up that junk for my customers' pc, and I hate it: it is the most stupid way to spend your time (I don't even know how Bill Gates can sleep at night), but all my windows customers always tells me: "I cannot stand my computer at home, I'm so used to a clean one at work that all that craps in my home computers just makes me wanting to tunn it off".
• TheCaptain4815 4y ago
  A sad realization is no matter how good hardware gets it will always be bottlenecked by windows. I used to think their monopoly was a convenient positive since all applications n such would work, but this has proven woefully wrong.
• bobse 4y ago
  GNU/Linux Mint doesn't have this problem.
• neilv 4y ago
  You could start a kid off with an OS distro run by old-school altruism: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.6.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-dvd/ https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-in...
• rekabis 4y ago
  Thanks to the user-hostile and inherently insecure nature of Windows, it takes me nearly 16 hours to comprehensively lock down, disinfect, and largely neuter any install of Windows. I mean, the actual install takes about a half hour, and slightly more if you have to trigger the OOBE to bypass the Microsoft Account requirement (you can create a bootable USB installer that does this automatically). So the other 15½ hours is spent ripping spyware out of the system and forcibly disabling “features” that only enrage people who are used to “traditional” style user interfaces (like a start menu that actually looks like a start menu… thank you, StartIsBack!!). Registry work alone takes nearly two hours, since most changes are security-protected; I cannot just create a reg file and apply it. I am able to get an install into a place where anyone can use it without getting massively confused by the newer UI garbage, so I am quite proud of those skills, but the time needed to do so is a damning indication of how bad things have gotten.
• apatheticonion 4y ago
  It's really sad that there is no where for us to go in the desktop OS space right now. I, weirdly, daily drive all 3 OSes. MacOS; Work issued laptop and longish-time user (about 6 years with it). Windows; Desktop PC mostly for games. I've been using Windows since I could walk. Fedora; Desktop PC, dual booted which I use for most everything else. I cannot believe how much of a dumpster fire Windows has become. From the ads to the degradation of basic desktop functionality - it's become so arduous to deal with. MacOS is better, but it still very annoying to deal with in a lot of ways. Apple are certainly set on degrading the user experience and in general neglect much needed feature additions. Fedora is fantastic, but no matter how much I love it, Linux is janky. I am looking at Linux and hoping that it saves the desktop OS experience - because it's very clear that both Microsoft and Apple are not interested. MacOS ties me over until then - but I can't even game on my Apple Silicon MacBook Pro now, so when I travel I have to bring two computers with me...
  • LeoPanthera 4y ago
    > MacOS is better, but it still very annoying to deal with in a lot of ways. Apple are certainly set on degrading the user experience and in general neglect much needed feature additions. Could you elaborate?
  • devjab 4y ago
    > but no matter how much I love it, Linux is janky. I see this a little bit different. I have ADHD and this relates to my operating system because I tend to go with the path of least resistance a little more so than my peers, or at least that's my anecdotal experience. Which means I haven't used Linux for a loooong time, exactly because it's janky. Where Linux is improving, however, both Windows and MacOS aren't. MacOS is degrading at a much slower rate, and it's likely going to be a long time before a MacBook Air with MacOS stops being my main Laptop (things like Framekwork aren't available in Denmark). I am, however, seriously considering putting Linux on my gaming machine because of how bad Windows has become. This is sort of "easy" for me because I don't play a lot of games. For the past 10 years it's been Blood Bowl 2 and Path of Exile/Diablo 3, for the next ten years it'll likely be Blood Bowl 3 and Diablo 4 + whatever ARPG I come to love. So if those few games work on Linux, then I'll be perfectly set. I wouldn't have considered switching to Linux if it wasn't because Microsoft keeps making Windows worse. Who ever thought it was a good idea to put advertisements into your operating system? Like seriously? And why isn't it illegal, at least here in the EU? Going back to Apple, the annoyance of having the closed ecosystem, is also getting to the point where it's becoming more of a burden than a feature. At least for me personally. This is largely because a lot of the people I communicate a lot with aren't in the ecosystem. It is also because a lot of the "digital home" stuff you can get in Denmark isn't going to be Apple. Even for the stuff that is available, like Apple TV, it's not like it's going to be a good option compared to a Chromecast because we simply don't get a lot of the features Americans do, and the Apple stuff is 10-100x the price of its alternatives. Then when your otherwise lovely ecosystem doesn't work when you're trying to have a group conversation via SMS with people not using iMessage, or a media setup with a Chromecast + some Linux stuff, it just becomes more trouble than it's worth, which means it no longer really makes sense to get the iPhone simply because it fits in with everything... I could go on ranting, but the point is that so far, the closed tech giants have been mainly driving me toward open alternatives out of convenience, and I'm likely not the only one. I think it'll hurt Microsoft more than it'll hurt Apple, but then Microsoft likely makes it money in enterprise sales where they have no competition, at least not yet.
• summerlight 4y ago
  For me the only reason to keep Windows as a personal computing machine is game if I don't count path dependencies. There used to be a good number of other reasons but most of them have gotten obsoleted thanks to other competitors. Meanwhile, it looks like they've introduced lots of new reasons not to use it. I feel grateful to my good old Skylake processor which prevented me from upgrading to Win 11.
• 1attice 4y ago
  Longtime devout linux user here. I've recently switched from Gnome 40 to KDE Plasma, and I'm really enjoying being able to configure and break things again. It scratches the same itch that Windows used to, but better. And, as OP points out, it doesn't spam you with social apps or fscked up newsreel
• cat_plus_plus 4y ago
  So you are essentially acting like your father, delaying introducing contemporary technology into your child's world? I am not saying it's necessarily a bad thing, but even back in the days there was (low res) pornography and predators on Internet, and on TikTok such blatant things are well filtered out and harm is more subtle. Bottom line, you got a career out of your exposure to potentially dangerous online world back in the day, there is risk but there is also an opportunity.
• graevy 4y ago
  The open-source community loves recommending ubuntu to people who don't know how to access a boot menu; the dissemination of debloating tools like tronscript or bloatynosy is the best practical way to combat these antifeatures.
• AdeptusAquinas 4y ago
  Tbf you can uninstall all these apps (rage about windows being preinstalled with bloatware, but thats been a thing forever), and if you feel like you are technical enough to use linux, then you are absolutely technical enough to open regedit, go to HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\ContentDeliveryManager, and disable all that 'user experience' stuff.
• eviks 4y ago
  That's way too dramatic for small annoyances you (as an experienced PC dad) could avoid I mean, you never could trust, and earlier the security was much worse, yet for some rose-tinted-glasses reason Windows was alive
• birdman3131 4y ago
  It is nuts how refreshing a Server install setup is. It has a single screen asking for a password and boom you are at a desktop. (Ok so there is the what disk are you installing to and the what version are you installing if you don't have a key but still.) If so many programs did not complain that I need to pay business prices for having a server OS installed I would much rather run a $50 copy of server 22 off ebay than 10/11.
• INTPenis 4y ago
  I have a similar experience to the author, but reversed. Instead of Windows 95 it was Red Hat Linux. So if I had to setup a similar experience for my child today it would be with Fedora, which would be a lot better of course. Because when I was a kid in the 90s my older brother was studying for his Microsoft certifications, but he didn't want to install Windows on a computer used by his kids (and me), so he installed Red Hat on it. I have fond memories of being at their house and playing on their Red Hat computer that stood in my nephews room. My favorite game was Konquest. I would love to give a similar experience to my child today. Years later this kickstarted my Linux career as I started to play with Linux on my own computer. And now, 25+ years later, I have an established and comfortable career in IT.
• timanderson 4y ago
  Agreed that Windows has become rather unpleasant but this: "So, there is basically little you can do with Windows out of the box but buy subscriptions and log into pre-installed social media apps." is not true at all. Well, I suppose if you don't install anything. But what you are going to do with Windows "out of the box" is not to buy subscriptions, but to install stuff. LibreOffice, VSCode, Audacity, Paint.Net, VLC, etc. There is so much fantastic productivity software for free. In the end it's just an OS with its share of annoyances. The big advantage of Mac for me is not the OS but Apple Silicon.
• trojan13 4y ago
  I would love to know the OS statistics in the Microsoft development teams.
• alentred 4y ago
  Same experience just recently: installing Windows for both of my kids. I got insanely frustrated with it. Forget the Family Safety. I honestly don't see it working at all. I created Microsoft accounts for my kids and set their ages. This changes nothing I can see. Search menu shows VERY explicit news. It asks my kid to sign in to her Microsoft account every now and then, even though she's signed in since it was installed in the first place. It asks to add payment methods, because why not?, and this is for a 10-year-old! Edge resets the homepage to edgeservices.bing.com, shows some tabloid news on it and refreshes this page every 30 seconds or so. Ads EVERYWHERE. I'll stop here, but only to keep this short. The bottom line is: it is unfriendly and sometimes unsafe for kids, not by my standards anyway, and I am a pretty tolerant parent. Lots of posts here mention the "debloat" apps. No way. I already paid for the OS. And I cannot just go and check my kids’ computers every now and then to see if Microsoft decided to roll out another dark pattern. Anyway, just yesterday I placed two orders for reconditioned MacBooks, and will be selling the two PCs as soon as those get delivered. -- Please excuse me if you are a Windows user and the following sounds strong, I don't want to be mean, but to raise awareness. My guess is just like frogs get boiled slowly, Windows users got tolerant to the progressive decrease in the quality and don’t even notice it anymore. In my experience, when you switch from Linux or Mac, you can't help but see all that is outright wrong with Windows.
  • gyranthology 4y ago
    That's terrifying. The child protection stuff sounds like a total mess, but it bleeds way beyond that. After leaving Windows behind in 2007 (Mac or Linux machines only), I switched back to Windows to do game development. I can't believe how much of a piece of crap these Windows machines are. All the apps that are preinstalled is one issue. Another is the stupid stuff they add to the search bar to make it look more like the Google landing page. The news, the ads, the weather, the notifications...and don't get me started on how you can't disable the use of the Edge browser when clicking on web search results from the search bar. It constantly feels like I am slogging through crap that they forced into onto the machines. It sucks because these are not productivity and work machines. They are built to get you to consume while pretending to allow you to work. I gave it a few years time and I'm still stuck with the same response. Working on a Mac or Linux is insanely more productive and enjoyable that dealing with Windows.
• Whatarethese 4y ago
  And this is why I buy Apple products. No need to worry about these garbage.
• CoolCold 4y ago
  Couldn't it be WhatsApp and TikTok what a "general customer" wants actually? Could it be MS has stats from MS Store to actually see what users install (say I have WhatsApp from the Store, among several others, not mentioning Office). We don't have numbers from the telemetry, but they have, so we guess, but they may actually know. Not something unrealistic for me. As side note, I find astonishing things, for good or bad, when looking out of my nerdy bubble.
• deely3 4y ago
  Huh, just as dozen years ago, all the same comments 'I never used Windows, and I will never use it'.
• keithalewis 4y ago
  But I don't wanna be Mr. Think.
• fancyfredbot 4y ago
  People with windows 3.1 bought windows 95 in a store in exchange for dollars. People with Windows 10 get version 11 in exchange for an eternity of advertising.
• nyanpasu64 4y ago
  This is the reason I'm running Ameliorated Windows 10. I cannot vouch for the recently posted Ameliorated 11 builder, though I hope to test it out the next time I set up a new computer.
• sharas- 4y ago
  Linux desktops are way more useable and way less buggy for quite a while now
• elihu 4y ago
  I just bought a Lenovo Ideapad from Costco for about $500. The last time I bought a computer preloaded with Windows was about a decade ago. My experience so far: I turn it on, there's a license agreement. Actually, there's two. One is from Microsoft, and it's rather long but I guess it's about par for the course. Then there's the Lenovo license agreement, which is actually a bunch of other license agreements concatenated together, for services I might or might not even want. I don't know how long it is, but I began to suspect it might be tied with the Old Testament. Which you're theoretically supposed to read in a tiny box and agree to, but if anyone were to actually attempt to read every word they'd better clear their calendar for maybe the next couple weeks. Next Windows wanted me to sign up for a Microsoft account. There's no obvious way around it, but fortunately a bit of googling directed me to a workaround that lets you create just a local account by disabling the network interface at the right time. When I finally boot the machine up, the default wallpaper is a Red Bull ad. I've had similar experiences buying a Roku (sorry, we won't let you use this device or access an account you already pay for separately unless you provide your credit card and tell us, for some reason, whether or not you have a penis) and a Samsung tablet (to use this device, you must agree that you have no privacy whatsoever). The people running these companies seem incapable of feeling shame. I guess I'll crawl back into my cave and keep using Linux for the foreseeable future.
  • LeoPanthera 4y ago
    > I guess I'll crawl back into my cave and keep using Linux for the foreseeable future. Apple makes laptops, TV streamers, and tablets. Is there some reason you're avoiding them?
    • h4ch1 4y ago
      I don't know about OP but they're significantly more expensive for me (non-US; Asia) than any other offerings, that I feel like I'm being scammed. That with more subscriptions for anything I might want to use (Spotify/Netflix/Prime) just make it kind of a pinch, and so for a lot of people in my country. Edit: for ex: the $799 iPad pro costs an equivalent of $994.35 in India.
• teekert 4y ago
  I was like this, always messing around with Windows 95, 2000, XP. Before that I "hacked" autoexe.bat on Dos. Then, in University (2003-ish?) a friend gave me a set of Mandrake CDs. A new world opened up, sleepless nights, Slackware, Gentoo, compiling Kernels, setting up my first Webserver, bricking the family modem to try to show it to friends (who somehow didn't see it on the address I sent them (192.168.1.2 or something ;)).
• qwerty456127 4y ago
  There is a free 3-rd party app called "Classic Start Menu" which solves the problem.
• nathants 4y ago
  windows is a decent gaming platform if your approach it pragmatically. - do a clean install via usb from the freely available official installers. - create/login with microsoft account (yes, you must. this is fine). - run hellzerg/optimizer and check every option. - avoid entering sensitive information aside from what’s needed (steam/epic credentials, msft account). for serious work, arch with any windowing setup can be installed on a second ssd. separate disk makes dual boot easy since you just choose disk via bios boot options. alpine unfortunately doesn’t have nvidia drivers yet.
• iforgotpassword 4y ago
  If you still think Windows is a good OS today, then I don't know what to tell you. Microsoft realized about when Windows 10 came around that Desktop os/software isn't the future and is now trying to milk that cow for as long and hard as possible while putting the minimal amount of effort into further development. Just enough to still be more attractive to the masses than MacOS or Linux. But with everything moving to the cloud, they'll eventually run out of breath if there won't be something leading to a reversal of that trend. And honestly, if you want your kid to tinker and break things and be able to look under the hood, isn't Linux the perfect choice anyways? At least if they have some interest in the technical aspects and don't just want a gaming rig.
• bilekas 4y ago
  > So I spent some time uninstalling all those apps. Only to figure out they were not gone from the system but only from his account's start menu. This is infuriating, even as an anti-social adult who has no use for them and actively wants to demote them.
• nkotov 4y ago
  I’m going through a similar experience for my kids. I’m super close to pulling a trigger on a iMac G3, which was the first computer I used as a kid (at the school computer lab). Not having it connected to the internet, preloaded with Kid Pix and some other games that I enjoyed as a kid.
• hotpathdev 4y ago
  [GNU/]Linux. I should be able to stop there, but I understand that if you never really gave Linux a shot, or you tried one distro once and gave up when the first thing broke, then you didn't get a chance to learn anything about Linux at all. If that's you, try Linux Mint next time. It's a good beginner distro, you won't break it easily, you will be able to google solutions easily and after a few months you will have learned enough to try other distros. It's important to start with a stable beginner distro to have the "things that work on linux desktop" benchmark. Here's another thing you need to know about Linux: The look and feel of your Linux desktop is not locked-in. All those reviews you read about a Linux distro that talked about the look or feel, are actually just misleading. The look and feel are distro-independent for the most part. Linux desktops are as customizable as you want them to be [1], or as little as you want them to be. GNOME and KDE are not the only game in town, XFCE is also a solid out-of-box minimalist experience which is very much like old-windows. If you want to boost productivity, tiling managers are waiting for you. You can also install all of them at once and switch at the login screen. Even the login screen is something you can customise or swap out. [1] https://teddit.net/r/unixporn https://teddit.net/r/unixporn
• septune 4y ago
  How come ReactOS for your kid ?
• rldjbpin 4y ago
  seeing many comments suggesting sticking with linux. as someone who's used both, i like how many linux users are happy to jump the hoops in their favourite distro for any technical issue but refuse to do it in windows whenever it affects your privacy. windows sucks, but when your work requires non-foss stuff, odds are that you are stuck with using it. tinfoilers can go full foss on their computer, down to the bios, but still have to access internet resources that don't respect your privacy. you really have to go out of your way to preserve your privacy in today's day and age. just have the same level of expectations between all the options.
• Ekaros 4y ago
  Don't worry. If Linux ever comes popular in Desktops it will end exactly same place, or probably beyond as anyone doing the customization probably knowns enough to be more dangerous and nothing prevents those changes... Just look at many Android phones and how something like Facebook can't even be permanently removed...
  • askvictor 4y ago
    Does SteamOS do this? (genuine question - I don't run it, but it's probably one of the bigger consumer-grade Linux distros)
    • Ekaros 4y ago
      Nope, but Valve makes the money from selling games on Steam. So they do not need it from others. Same really doesn't apply to other manufacturers.
      • askvictor 4y ago
        And yet, despite Microsoft making money from licensing Windows, selling Office subscriptions, and (presumably) their App Store, they feel it's worth opening a firehose of ads on the user. I don't think that having a solid revenue stream and flooding the user with ads are related in any way; it's just a question of the company's morals and where they see value for/from the user.
• dschuetz 4y ago
  Steadily Personal Computing has evolved into Personal Consuming.
• shortrounddev 4y ago
  I'm a fan of Windows, and I went into the article skeptical of it, expecting it to be another rant by an RMS-type privacy nut lining his walls with tin foil to prevent the government from sniffing his wifi packets. But this is an article about product, and not technology, and I have to say I agree with him. The reason I am a Windows fan boy is because I grew up with the same experience. Though Windows has a reputation for being closed source and predatory, its association with games made it much more of a hacking toy for me growing up than any *nix-based system ever did. However, the last iteration seems to be moving closer and closer to the tablet-UX world that modern product designers want us to be in on every device. Monetizing our intent is more lucrative than serving pre-existing demand.
• eqqn 4y ago
  Windows 11 is on hysterical trajectory these days. Recently they pushed in a search bar in the taskbar by default. They should rename it to Bing OS to capitalize. Using windows start menu search will fire off 5 requests to bing, Edge embedded everywhere. Usability out of the box is not only bad, it's net negative. A lot of effort has to be put to disable distracting features. Meanwhile simple file compression support still relies on other applications. For a "professional" or "enterprise" OS that is unacceptable.
• bearmode 4y ago
  Windows has been dying for me since Windows 8
• r3vrse 4y ago
  My 6yo has an iPhone which arrived OOTB with a News widget, accessible by a single swipe, including similar "breaking" content. No sign-in required. Just an internet connection. What does she want for Christmas? An iPhone 14 Pro Max. I kid you not. Literally everyone she goes to school with has TikTok and are talking about content in that app day in and day out. Do I like this? No. Are you a million miles from reality for pre-teens? Yes. A song and dance about how this is a somehow simply a treatise on the decline of Microsoft is naive at best and highly disingenuous at worst. I really don't want to sound vitriolic but do y'all live in the real world? I wonder sometimes.
• _jplc 4y ago
  Looking forward to Bing chatbot being available on the search bar directly so I can be gaslighted and lied to without even opening the web browser.
• kcartlidge 4y ago
  I just don't get it. I genuinely don't see most of this. Yes, the solitaire etc issue is there, and the account sign-in, but my Windows 11 start menu is clear, uncluttered, and ad-free - Windows just keeps out of my way. I don't know if it is something to do with using my own retail Windows 11 license (which was a free upgrade from Windows 10, which was free from Windows 8, which was free from a purchase of Windows 7), but whenever I see these stories I genuinely do believe them but I just don't have the same negative experience. (And to be clear I'm also a Linux and MacOS user so not a naïve defender of MS.)
  • alex_ambarch 4y ago
    If I remember correctly from when I installed Windows 11, none of those ads get put in the Start menu if you upgrade from Windows 10. They didn't want to scare off the users who actually had an easily accessible choice to downgrade. Installing a new copy of Windows 11 on a machine that didn't have anything on it previously was what resulted in ads being put in the start menu for me.
    • kcartlidge 4y ago
      Thank you - that distinction probably clears things up. I've read about loads of similar experiences over the last few years and had the same confusion. I think this is the first time somebody has pointed out the likely reason :)
• alkonaut 4y ago
  Some parts of "bad microsoft" I can sort of understand and attribute to pure business motives, like e.g. trying to push people to your specific cloud when they are using GitHub, or trying to push your own browser over Googles. Google obviously does the same thing. But some of the worst things just seem to completely any motivation. Like putting terrible news links in the start menu. Some areas of microsoft also has great customer communication (Devtools, compilers) whereas the groups responsible for "making the windows UX terrible" seems very faceless. It's something hundreds of millions of people use every day, yet while yo can get blog posts explaining some minute detail of a developer tooll you never see a microsoft blog post saying "Here is how we plan to change the news links section of the Windows start menu". It seems like a completely faceless organization in that part, while the good parts of microsoft is very human. Am I being conspiratorical here? Am I just following the wrong social accounts?
• donutpepperoni 4y ago
  I'm glad you shared this. I have a very similar computing background to the authors. I used Microsoft exclusively until I started working in datacenters and then I switched to Mac/Linux. I was even a "Microsoft Certified Professional" at the age of 17 because of how much I had used the OS and remembered about how it worked. It was clunky and weird then but it's gotten even weirder now. All of the legacy clunk remains and now they're shoehorning more awkward stuff on top. For decades the first thing I would do on a fresh install of windows is move the task bar to the top. Now Microsoft states that as a design choice they won't let you move the task bar: https://www.reviewgeek.com/114501/microsoft-explains-why-you-cant-move-the-windows-11-taskbar/ https://www.reviewgeek.com/114501/microsoft-explains-why-you...
• SomeHacker44 4y ago
  So, how do you fully get rid of preinstalled software for all users? or anything from Microsoft Store? Thanks!
• mancerayder 4y ago
  So which Lenovo model works best with Ubuntu and isn't a number of years old? I'm ready to take a plunge with a non-Windows, non-OSX laptop.
• AlbertVAustin 4y ago
  Funny thing because the author experiences also mirror mine while setting up a computer for kids. I've got two: regular HP laptop with ad-ridden Windows and Raspberry 4 (the one that is all-in-one keyboard). I can't stand Windows with their ugly dark patterns. Kids actually prefer Raspberry since Minetest works there just fine (although I'd be happy to have a little bit more powerful machine for that). And I'm thinking on rather getting a more powerful Linux machine (Khadas Edge2?) than de-cluttering Windows (which is a sisyphean task by itself).
• cubefox 4y ago
  As someone who uses an Android tablet heavily, I really liked the Metro UI for Windows 8, where you swipe from the edges of the screen to perform various OS actions. Unfortunately Windows for tablets never worked out, and Metro got abandoned with Windows 10/11. I don't know about iPadOS, but Android is not anywhere near the usability of the Windows 8 GUI, years later. At least Google copied the permission system where you don't have to grant everything during installation. It seems Window 8 was Microsoft's last attempt to really accomplish something with their OS. (Unfortunately users hated it, they didn't want tablets.) So I would say Windows died for me already with Windows 10.
• sylens 4y ago
  I still find Windows to be pretty snappy and easy to use, but I completely agree with the author about all of the junk that comes with it (or is suggested to you in the Start Menu) and the pushing of ads and Bing results/news articles. I've started to use macOS more and more at home in addition to at work. I've been contemplating just hooking up my Windows desktop to my TV to basically use it as a game console, because that's the only reason I really boot into it anymore. It's really hard for me to tell what the direction of Windows is these days. At least under Ballmer you knew what they were trying to do, either with the Windows Live software package or the push for Windows 8. What's humorous about this is that the disinterest in Windows is harming other areas of the company; the failure of UWP and the Windows Store continue to hamstring the XBox division, who had to build their own client for Game Pass games, and even that is a slow and buggy React Native app because Windows has no compelling native app dev focus anymore.
• dr-detroit 4y ago
  [dead]
• stewx 4y ago
  TLDR: Windows now pushes all kinds of unsolicited content on you and your family: news articles; social media apps like TikTok, Instagram, and Whatsapp; in-app purchases for Solitaire; ads for Microsoft 365.
• throwbadubadu 4y ago
  Awful, agreed. But.. > I want him to be able to dig deeper. To explore. To try things out, misconfigure, crash, fix, and re-install. To get a feeling for how things work below the surface and how they do not work. To learn how to type fast and efficiently. To create things. Maybe, one day, even to learn how to code if he's interested. Just get him a Linux, all above and so much more to learn and benefit from in the future.
• DrThunder 4y ago
  Use the education edition, problem solved. I'm pretty sure most schools have a VL for it and can give discounts for you to buy that version. Yes, having to remove the adware is obnoxious but anything you use nowadays needs to be sanitized for kids and that includes Ipads. I'm just glad there are some built in ways to do that.
• tapoxi 4y ago
  I'm actually making an effort for my daughter to have a Linux desktop as her first exposure to computing, outside of say, a Nintendo Switch. I'm not trying to push my hobbies on her, but I want her to learn technology in an environment free of the ads and other garbage that come with Windows and (to a lesser extent) macOS. I want her to learn what the computer is doing and not treat it like magic. I'm terrified by iPads, I don't want her to think that consumption and pay-to-win games are all thats out there.
• schnitzelstoat 4y ago
  I mean, if the kid has access to the internet he's probably going to end up exposed to stuff anyway. I had unfiltered access to the internet when I was a kid in the late 90's and early 00's and I grew up fine.
• theknocker 4y ago
  [dead]
• cbold 4y ago
  I have set up two NUCs with PopOS for my sons. Both very happy and I have full control of the machines. The problems started with Windows 7 when at some points the updates became obfuscated and mandatory to push "telemetry" aka data snooping. Before that phoning home was considered spyware and a sin.
• aagha 4y ago
  I constantly see these posts about Windows--I'm not sure what people are expecting when they're not really paying (extra) for it. I run Pro versions on all my machines and don't tend to have this blot. Is that it? I pay $49 more and get Windows without any of this crap? Sign me up.
• MattyRad 4y ago
  Next, try installing Minecraft for your child on Windows.
• elzbardico 4y ago
  For a kid this age, Ubuntu is definitelly a safe bet. He will be able to run lots of games, but without being subject to Windows dark patterns. My wife (not a tech person, far from it) used Ubuntu for ages until recently when she went back to the corporate world and was forced to use a Windows laptop from corporate. Holy Jeebus, she would complain the whole eight hours of her work for about 2 or 3 months, at about the time they send her a macbook.
• di456 4y ago
  The end for me was when I found out my local files were syncing to OneDrive without knowing. Some dark pattern convinced me to opt in. I remember opting out before that. Somehow it must have connected my Hotmail browser session to my PC. I really have know idea how it opted me in. Lesson: never use an actual active MS account for an OS install. If required, make it machine-specific. After this experience I will never trust or use OneDrive or any MS-connected account tied to my OS. And I plan to use Linux going forward, with one laptop already migrated to Ubuntu.
• tabtab 4y ago
  Windows is annoying largely because Microsoft has insufficient competition. If you want to "do real business", you pretty much have to use Windows. Google was giving MS a run for their money, but seems they mostly backed away for some reason. MS can be a jerk because the penalty for jerk-hood is too small. What would partially help is a state-ful GUI markup standard so we could run both web and desktop GUI apps smoothly on Windows and other OS's. I realize Java applets tried similar, but they tried to be an entire virtual OS and app platform, biting off more than they could manage. Just focus on being a GUI browser and only a GUI browser, rather than a Swiss army knife. Do one job and do it well.
• iamleppert 4y ago
  You do not own the OS. You didn't create it, and you don't even own a copy of it. You have a very limited license to it, as in permission to use it in a very specific manner, and no other rights other than those that you were granted. If you look closely even those rights may be subject to change, and change without your approval. Microsoft, under their current license, is free to do whatever they want to their OS, and as a for-profit corporation, their goal is to maximize shareholder value and return, not to create a pleasing product for you or your offspring. If you don't like the product, you should be asking yourself what type of incentive structures created it. And if you don't like that answer, your only real option is to do what you've done and use something else. Once a company grows to a certain size, the wants and needs and opinions of individual users are no longer relevant. Users are more akin to cattle and only ever viewed as larger collections who exhibit certain traits and behaviors that can be channeled into profit directions (normally at the expense of other groups of users). Microsoft has decided that the experiences of those users is more valuable (as in generates more profit per unit economic) than the experiences of whatever group you fall into.
  • chatterhead 4y ago
    [dead]
  • shrimp_emoji 4y ago
    >Users are more akin to cattle My god, Terry Davis was right D:
• Schwolop 4y ago
  I just set up a computer for my own kids and used Ubuntu from the get-go. About the only two things that have led to a bit of frustration from the kids have been that we can't play my collection of 1990s games on CDs (KOTOR, Deus Ex, etc) because they're all for Windows only, and that Roblox doesn't have a linux version. I'm OK with them not thinking Roblox is a good way to learn to make games. Also, Steam on Linux with its custom version of Wine is awesome. And most 1990s games seem to cost about $5 to purchase again and not have to faff around with CD-keys...
• pmarreck 4y ago
  Windows died a long time ago, its users just haven't realized it yet. Get a Framework laptop and install NixOS on it. Let him learn Linux while having the wonderful rollback capabilities that NixOS gives you. Let him enjoy tons of games via Proton. Done.
• oriettaxx 4y ago
  in the mean while Bill Gates preaches
• oriettaxx 4y ago
  Remember there is this one https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35398294 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35398294 (ameliorated.io)
• wazoox 4y ago
  I've bought my wife a Lenovo Ideapad. First boot into BIOS, deactivate UEFI secure boot. Second boot into Linux (Pop_OS). Works really great. Didn't bother with the Microsoft crap for 20 years. Didn't even try to boot Windows 11 once to see how it looks, I don't even want to know at this point.
• uni_baconcat 4y ago
  Remember back then, new laptops would be packed with loads of pre-installed OEM software, embedded in the recovery partition and CD. Now everything can be downloaded while the user is going through the activation and initial setup process.