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MacBook Pro featuring M2 Pro and M2 Max

• gamesbrainiac 4y ago
  > New MacBook Pro features up to 6x faster performance than fastest Intel-based MacBook Pro This seems like a cheap shot, if I'm being honest.
  • jspaetzel 4y ago
    Yeah, wasn't the last one of these released in 2021?
  • bdlowery 4y ago
    From a marketing standpoint there’s probably a lot of users still using intel based MacBooks, and they’re trying to convert those existing customers to the Apple Silicon architecture.
• kirso 4y ago
  This release literally made M1 PRO the sweetest deal on the market. I owe first generation M1 Air and it has been an incredible machine for 99% of the population. For the MBP crowd, the 15% improvement is IMO not worth the $
• dgdosen 4y ago
  I'm happy the Apple web site shows at least one 'stock' configs for the laptops with 32GB of ram and 1TB. That means Costco, Best Buy and Amazon will be slinging these around at sale prices soon enough.
• wrldos 4y ago
  Pricing has gone crazy here in the UK. Paid £1899 for my M1 Pro. Same spec M2 Pro is £2199. Edit: at this rate when my previous gen one expires I'm going to think seriously about shifting back to ThinkPads...
  • joefarish 4y ago
    I'm sure part of that is the pound tanking against the dollar!
    • wrldos 4y ago
      Yeah likely but the thing is that Apple prices never go down even if the exchange rate becomes favourable.
      • selectodude 4y ago
        I can't think of a single currency that has been strengthening against the dollar in the last fifteen years.
        • middle-marathon 4y ago
          CHF
          • michpoch 4y ago
            We did not get cheaper Apple devices, no worries. 8% VAT helps a bit though.
            • middle-marathon 4y ago
              Oh I'm well aware!
      • xuki 4y ago
        This is false. Apple adjusted price for products when exchange rates changed. They don’t do it daily, usually it happens at product releases like today.
  • droopyEyelids 4y ago
    Do yourself a favor and find a way to test that Intel laptop before you switch. I have to use one for work and the performance penalty is massive. Fans blasting, laggy, hot, three hour battery life. Its a substantial step backwards
• MAGZine 4y ago
  Is it strange these were not announced during a live event?
  • cube2222 4y ago
    They sometimes do this if there's nothing more than a spec bump, but also means there might be some other big releases coming soon.
    • bertil 4y ago
      Usually, those spec bumps are placeholders to allow the company to cancel more significant, riskier announcements without giving a surprisingly short presentation. Next Keynote is expected in March, which feels a bit far from now than usual for that pattern. It could be that the recent events in China made that announcement tricky, and given the worrying speculation, Apple wanted to reassure people.
  • mcny 4y ago
    > Is it strange these were not announced during a live event? My conspiracy theory / gut reaction is they want to hide this launch? or at least don't want too many eyes on it? I don't know why I think this but yeah. I have no insider information. This is an unsubstantiated guess.
    • Gareth321 4y ago
      Extremely underwhelming improvement. The M1 to M2 general performance gap is minor at best.
      • esskay 4y ago
        To be fair it doesn't need to be a massive leap every CPU upgrade. The M1 was already a pretty damn powerful chip.
      • dbbk 4y ago
        That is generally how chips go year-over-year. The Intel MacBook Pros were never that dramatic a leap either.
• jaimehrubiks 4y ago
  No graphs and all comparison is with Intel's Macs, not with M1s.
  • ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    I assume their main target is those still on Intel Macs as those who are already happy with M1 can't really justify already upgrading to M2 as it doesn't offer any major bump.
  • joakleaf 4y ago
    There are comparisons with M1 Pro/Max: "MacBook Pro with M2 Pro features a 10- or 12-core CPU with up to eight high-performance and four high-efficiency cores for up to 20 percent greater performance over M1 Pro. " "MacBook Pro with M2 Max pushes workflows to the extreme with a much larger GPU featuring up to 38 cores and delivering up to 30 percent greater graphics performance over M1 Max"
  • lordleft 4y ago
    Not quite true, I see some comparisons made to the "previous generation" which are clearly M1s
  • 7ewis 4y ago
    Was looking for comparisons with the M1 too, they do briefly do a few further down - but I'm guessing it's not worth the upgrade.
    • Tagbert 4y ago
      Single-generation, incremental chip upgrades like this are rarely worth the extra cost unless you have some other use for your older machine.
  • Ditiris 4y ago
    There are several comparisons scattered throughout the announcement: - Rendering titles and animations in Motion is up to 80 percent faster1 than the fastest Intel-based MacBook Pro and up to 20 percent faster5 than the previous generation. - Compiling in Xcode is up to 2.5x faster^1 than the fastest Intel-based MacBook Pro and nearly 25 percent faster^5 than the previous generation. - Image processing in Adobe Photoshop is up to 80 percent faster^1 than the fastest Intel-based MacBook Pro and up to 40 percent faster^5 than the previous generation. Those numbers are somewhat surprising since they're for M2 Pro, and later on in they say the M2 Max, presumably faster than the M2 Pro, "delivers up to 20 percent greater performance over M1 Max."
• lazyvar 4y ago
  will this support multiple monitors?
  • ilikejam 4y ago
    Yes.
    • lazyvar 4y ago
      Thanks.
  • znpy 4y ago
    i'm already using two external displays and the built-in one with my m1 macbook pro
  • mgraupner 4y ago
    Yes, as the predecessor supported multiple monitors this one will too. It's also in the specs on apple.com.
    • lazyvar 4y ago
      Missed that, thanks.
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  • pineconewarrior 4y ago
    M2 Pro supports 3, M2 supports 2
    • doerig 4y ago
      This is incorrect, the M2 supports a single, M2 Pro supports up to 2 and the M2 Max up to 4 external displays.
  • sandstrom 4y ago
• Mikeb85 4y ago
  Strange that Apple still isn't offering OLED screens when most other laptop makers are this year...
  • bayindirh 4y ago
    They tend to not sacrifice longevity over flashy technologies. They migrated to OLED very late in iPhone when compared to other manufacturers, too. The last thing I want is a burn mark on my laptop screen because of static parts of my IDEs and such.
    • atonse 4y ago
      Is OLED even flashy anymore?
      • bayindirh 4y ago
        Not for small screens, but for big, high density, low latency, almost always on screens. So I consider it flashy for TVs and monitors.
    • DannyBee 4y ago
      "They tend to not sacrifice longevity over flashy technologies. " What? In what universe is this true? They spent generations of macbooks on flashy keyboards that didn't work, etc. Trying to pain Apple's inability to keep up in certain area as them trying to care about longevity is hilarious. In the end - it's not about longevity at all, it's almost certainly about whether they can get it at the price point they want, in the volume they want. That's it.
      • bayindirh 4y ago
        Well, when they screw up design, they do it in a spectacular fashion, yes. Considering I buy a new MacBook every decade and they just endure the torture I put them through (I don’t abuse them though), I can say that they are pretty well built machines. Same is true for my 7 year iPhone cycle. I pay similar price to top tier laptops of other big brands, and get what I pay for. Use it for a decade, move the machine to spare and get a new one. When one does this with a thinkpad, we applaud them. When someone does it with a MacBook, we don’t believe them. Funny.
• dchuk 4y ago
  It’s crazy how far ahead Apple is getting in the laptop game with these new chips. I have the first gen MacBook Pro with the M1 Pro (ok maybe they’re not winning the naming game), and it’s a perfect computer. Battery life is literally all day, every single action is instant, I have zero regard for many apps or tabs I have open. It’s just perfect. I have literally traveled with just a 30 watt anker brick for my phone and used it to trickle charge my MacBook overnight and I’m good to go.
  • gnufied 4y ago
    I have both a latest generation Thinkpad P1 Gen5 and Macbook Pro 16 inch M1 pro and while it is true that Macbook comes pretty close to being a perfect laptop, I still miss the productivity of a Linux laptop (for backend dev work). From what hardware POV you are correct, I wish though Apple would adopt Carbon Magnesium chasis that thinkpad uses. For same 16inch size, Thinkpad is noticeably lighter. I can happy lug my P1 Gen5(16 inch) model anywhere, whereas 16inch macbook pro is hefty.
    • sem000 4y ago
      What is your Linux laptop giving you that your MBP doesn’t? And how does it hurt your productivity? Genuinely curious as I don’t see how it can be any different.
      • justahuman74 4y ago
        Presumably that it's running Linux and can be customized as wanted. Also docker runs without a VM, so the networking and storage performance is good
      • smoldesu 4y ago
        For me: - No nagware (no Apple Music pop-ups, advertisements for safari, login nag in settings, et. al) - Built-in package manager - Having (relative) parity between production and development Between those three, you probably couldn't pay me to go back to MacOS. Adding my own package manager, disabling ads and making my Mac into a Linux-equivalent machine is possible, but it's a lot of work to maintain and set up. If I was a creative and used Adobe/Microsoft tools, I might be a little nicer to MacOS. As a programmer though? I haven't felt the desire to use a Mac since Mojave existed.
• smoldesu 4y ago
  Does anyone know "the fastest Intel-based MacBook Pro" means? In my mind, I've always pictured them using the 16" i9 model that throttled before it could hit the boost clock, let alone sustain it.
  • LetsGetTechnicl 4y ago
    From the footnotes of the article, you're right! > Results are compared to previous-generation 2.4GHz 8-core Intel Core i9-based 16-inch MacBook Pro systems with Radeon Pro 5600M graphics with 8GB HBM2, 64GB of RAM, and 8TB SSD.
  • maxfurman 4y ago
    My guess would also be the 2019 16" Pro, the last one released before the M1 wave. That happens to be the one I have now, I'm still pretty happy with it! Great battery life, doesn't get lava hot unless I have a bunch of plugins going in Ableton or something else demanding.
    • xdavidliu 4y ago
      I had that machine for about 6 months and found the swapping between nvidia and integrated graphics to cause such unbearable graphical glitches [1] (well from my self-diagnosed OCD-influenced perspective, anyway), that I sold it on Craigslist for a $500 loss immediately. [1] https://apple.stackexchange.com/q/411232/79532 https://apple.stackexchange.com/q/411232/79532
• mpeg 4y ago
  New Mac mini with the M2 Pro maxes out at 32GB memory, that's quite disappointing compared to the Macbook Pro's 96GB. On the other hand, my M2 Macbook Air is one of the best purchases I've made in a long time, great fanless laptop.
  • nicoburns 4y ago
    Presumably they are trying to make a clear distinction between the mini and studio.
    • mpeg 4y ago
      Yeah, I understand from a product perspective, but the studio feels like a bit of a weird product to me, I'd much rather either buy a mini form factor for the size, or just get a proper desktop machine (since the Mac Pro has been outdated for a while)
      • japhyr 4y ago
        I just got a Studio (still in the box waiting to be set up), and I'm really curious to see how it does. I love the idea of it; it's specced more than I could get in a laptop, which is exactly what I want for my desktop work. I never really got the appeal of the Mini, because it wasn't specced much better than a MacBook. The Studio seems to be a nice middle ground between a MacBook and a mac Pro, which I know I'll never need.
        • 988747 4y ago
          > I never really got the appeal of the Mini, because it wasn't specced much better than a MacBook. The appeal is in the form factor: you buy Mini, so you can hang it behind your TV using VESA mount, and you use it to watch Netflix on 65" OLED screen. Or you put it in the corner of the room and use it as a home server. You do not use Mini as laptop replacement :) Although I have to say this: Intel NUCs a quarter of the size of Mini, so much better for both the purposes above.
    • 4y ago
• crecker 4y ago
  Mac mini seems so cheap in my country compared a brand-new Macbook. I wonder if they want to move as soon as possible to ecosystem made by only Apple Silicon powered devices.
• s_dev 4y ago
  I've been waiting over a year for this. My M1 8GB is simply not up to spec for iOS Dev work. Apple Store literally had nothing with 16GB when I had to buy it. I asked about when they could get one in -- Apple store assistant told me it would be at least 3 months. This was in Ireland during Covid. For reference my 2016 MacBook Pro had 16GB RAM so it was surprising to me that 6 years later I would be unable to buy one with 16 GB of RAM. So while the CPUs are amazing what the hell are Apple doing selling machines with such little amounts of RAM?
  • firemelt 4y ago
    is 16Gb m2 pro enough for iOS+Android Dev work?
    • s_dev 4y ago
      For now -- but possibly not in 2024. I would go higher. At least 24 GB if you're buying an M2 Pro.
  • mpeg 4y ago
    I would strongly recommend the M2 air at 24GB, I too bought one of the first M1 airs with 8GB ram and that laptop is just gathering dust right now, but the latest ones are great, the increase in RAM really lets the processor shine.
    • technofiend 4y ago
      Would you recommend it over the 32GB 14" M2 MBP? The price difference is $500 but for the same amount of storage and cores, you get another 8GB of memory, multi-monitor support, faster wifi, another tb4 port, etc. Honestly despite their newness I was hoping the airs would see a small price drop.
    • ant6n 4y ago
      Don’t they have thermal throttling issues?
      • 4y ago
• Kalanos 4y ago
  Of course they don't show whether or not they got rid of the touchbar on the keyboard
  • satysin 4y ago
    Because they got rid of that over a year ago in these models.
    • bouke 4y ago
      Except they didn't and recently unveiled this 13" MacBook Pro with M2 chip: https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-13/ https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-13/. Granted it's not the 14"/16" model, but still a touch bar on a new model.
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  • ContrabandNews 4y ago
    https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/16-inch-space-gray-apple-m2-max-with-12-core-cpu-and-38-core-gpu-1tb https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/16-inch-space... On the shop page the angle is available to see no touch-bar.
  • pwinnski 4y ago
    They did not re-introduce the already-eliminated touch bar.
  • teilo 4y ago
    Only the 13" Pro with an M2 still comes with a touchbar.
• mittermayr 4y ago
  There's also a new Mac Mini, which I found A LOT MORE interesting, given that its keyboard or batteries won't break: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2023/01/apple-introduces-new-mac-mini-with-m2-and-m2-pro-more-powerful-capable-and-versatile-than-ever/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2023/01/apple-introduces-new-...
  • moonchrome 4y ago
    I was thinking about throwing some last gen parts into an old tower/PSU I have to build a desktop for inlaws since they are stuck on a 10year old hand down laptop. This is a good package at that price (599$) - power consumption is likely nothing, MacOS included in price, small and quiet - will comfortably browse the internet, play videos, etc. for the next 5+ years. I won't be able to repair it out of warranty so that's a bummer- but at such low price and their usage pattern I guess I can live with the risk.
    • myself248 4y ago
      Shame I can't buy an M2 Max on an ATX mobo.
      • judge2020 4y ago
        I imagine a lot of the performance of the M1 and thereafter is a direct result of moving the memory closer to the die. The power efficiency, sure, that's all engineering, but super close and fast memory right next to the CPU is only one step away from AMD's 3D v-cache that has (had) the 5800X3D beating out newer 7000 series AMD chips.
        • kcb 4y ago
          I think the bigger factor is that the 3D v-cache is SRAM, which is why it needs a whole stacked die for just 64mb.
        • ac29 4y ago
          > I imagine a lot of the performance of the M1 and thereafter is a direct result of moving the memory closer to the die I'm not sure why this Apple marketing point gets repeated so often. The M2 has the same memory support as current Intel chips: 128-bit LPDDR5 6400. Mounting the memory on the same package as the CPU might have some engineering advantages compared to socketed RAM, but it doesnt make the (industry standard) memory any faster.
• jchw 4y ago
  It's worrying that they are shying away from specifying generational improvements or at least comparing to it's competitors. The "fastest Intel MacBook" is not really the competitor for an M2 MacBook Pro, it's a predecessor. But I'd rather hear about generational improvements from M1, especially because both Intel and AMD seem to be making great strides in the low power space lately.
  • JoshTko 4y ago
    If Apple's main target customers are Intel macbook owners using these stats would make sense.
    • nvrspyx 4y ago
      They could include both the improvement from the last Intel model and the previous Apple Silicon model, no? EDIT: I see they actually do just that for some specific applications.
      • JoshTko 4y ago
        Less is more. I'm guessing the % of M2 customers that are upgrading from an M1 is less than 10%. If ~75% (my guess) of target customers for M2 are Intel mac owners, Apple should focus on them first. They can then do more targeted ads w/ relevant stats to win each subgroup in the remaining 25%
        • ricardobayes 4y ago
          That's a tough cookie, some can't switch due to software constraints (e.g. CAD engineers using solidworks etc)
  • nawgz 4y ago
    As an M1 owner, it's the opposite of a worry for my wallet :)
  • Waterluvian 4y ago
    Edit: I no-longer hold this opinion as I missed that there's already been an M1 MacBook Pro and it should be comparing to that. For as long as I can remember, Apple has compared new products to the previous product. And it is a more sensible approach than picking some arbitrary competitor from a huge collection of possible options, because it gives a fixed frame of reference, one of which many of the target audience are aware of. 6x faster than the previous model is very good marketing.
• hk1337 4y ago
  How is development setup on the M2? Specifically Docker and Python. Docker VM has always seemed rather meh on my M1 and installing different python versions with pyenv either goes well or has _a lot_ of workarounds.
  • smoldesu 4y ago
    That's OS-specific, and doesn't really have much to do with the chip. Managing Python will be frustrating on every OS, but running Docker software will always be uniquely slow on MacOS. If you want native Docker performance, you need a kernel with native Linux support.
    • hk1337 4y ago
      Fair point.
  • dugab 4y ago
    I have no issues working with Docker/Python on a M1 Macbooks. Docker Desktop/Colima does the job well, and most of the images I use are available on arm. Running amd64 images is slower, but works well. For Python, Python itself is rarely the problem, but more often some older libraries that don't have wheels for M1 Mac, or incompatibilities. Upgrading your dependencies, if it's an option, is often enough. Asdf + PDM are also nice tools to work with multiple projects/Py versions easily.
    • hk1337 4y ago
      > Asdf + PDM are also nice tools to work with multiple projects/Py versions easily. I haven't heard of either of these but they seem interesting. I'll look into them. Thanks. *EDIT* Oh, man! I've just been using just pip like a muggle, until now.
  • KAdot 4y ago
    macOS 13 Ventura introduced[1] support of running amd64 binaries with Rosetta inside of arm64 Linux VMs when using Apple Virtualization framework. Latest Docker Desktop and Lima VM can take advantage on the new feature. It makes running amd64 containers significantly faster. Here is a very short manual how to setup Docker with Lima VM and Rosetta https://gist.github.com/akrylysov/7c1ea3bac409da2758e525f2f82e6373 https://gist.github.com/akrylysov/7c1ea3bac409da2758e525f2f8... [1]: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/virtualization/running_intel_binaries_in_linux_vms_with_rosetta https://developer.apple.com/documentation/virtualization/run...
• LetsGetTechnicl 4y ago
  I'm excited for this because hopefully there'll be some really good deals on M1 models...
• cantSpellSober 4y ago
  > MagSafe 3 charging The biggest differences between v2 and v3 of MagSafe are: • v3 is 1 mm longer (doesn't fit v2 models) • v3 supports PD 3.1 ...is that all? > Thunderbolt 4 Type-C ports ...these do NOT support PD 3.1, correct?
  • enragedcacti 4y ago
    Probably just aligning with the new Qi spec? https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/qi2-the-new-standard-for-wireless-charging-is-coming-later-this-year/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/qi2-the-new-standard-for-wi... edit: should've rtfa'd, its the laptop magsafe
    • rmccue 4y ago
      That's (confusingly) a different MagSafe. Apple has MagSafe connectors for charging on laptops, which was the original MagSafe. The name comes from the connector being magnetic, and being "safe" since tripping over the cable would make it disconnect without pulling your laptop off the table. They discontinued this in favour of charging through USB-C cables/ports a while back. They then introduced magnetic charging for iPhones, similar to (but IIRC not exactly) their Qi charging support. This reused the MagSafe name since they didn't have any products with it. The evolution of this is speculated to be incorporated and standardised as Qi2. Then they introduced the MagSafe charging connector back to their laptops (but updated), and so confusingly there's two basically unrelated features both called MagSafe. Maybe that'll get cleared up a bit once Qi2 comes out.
      • nfriedly 4y ago
        I wouldn't call them unrelated. They're both charging connectors with magnets. (I know the iPhone one is wireless, but still.) Also, the laptop side is on it's third iteration, so at this point "MagSafe" is more of a category than a specific connector.
        • qwytw 4y ago
          Well MagSafe (the macbook charger one) is closer to USB-C in almost every way than it is to Wireless charging. I think it's just basically a different usb-c connector with a magnet attached.
• csdvrx 4y ago
  That's when I realize how much my weird hardware preferences set me apart: I mostly care about an OLED screen and ECC ram. Then, a touchscreen supporting pen entry, and a good keyboard (with the edit keys like home/insert/pageup/pagedown directly accessible, bonus is there's also printscreen) especially if it's not a foldable or a tablet. Apple's got good CPU and battery life, but unless the core features are present, I really don't care. Here, 0/4 of my core features are present. It's certainly nice hardware, but it's not for me.
  • factsarelolz 4y ago
    You use a touch screen and pen on something other than a nonfoldable/tablet? Interesting. Thanks for the share.
    • csdvrx 4y ago
      Depending on how I hold my laptop, yes I like to click and scroll with my finger, especially when taking notes or mindmapping. @temptemptemp111 you seem to be shadowbanned, but your comment is spot on: OLED is about comfort. Sometimes I like working at night, sometimes in the daytime. I want a gorgeous screen that doesn't hurt my eyes, that can go very bright or very dark. Having a powerful CPU is irrelevant when working on the console. Having days of battery life is irrelevant when having a plug nearby. Would I take a powerful CPU and better battery life? Of course! But only if it was a bonus: for my specific usecase, there's 0 benefit from using a Mac. I'm sorry if that's hurtful to apple fanboys - you certainly have a wonderful machine if you care about battery life, a powerful CPU, and if you carry a cellphone with you at all times. I don't mean to be hurtful: I just have different tastes and priorities. Like, I refuse to use or carry a cellphone except on very specific circumstances. Replacing my laptop with a Mac would be a net negative, as having a 5G or LTE modem in my laptop is more valuable to me than a long battery life: integrated cellular connectivity enable me to spend 1h at a coffee shop without wifi: there're various options for PCs (Microsoft Go, Thinkpads, Dell...) but 0 option for a MacOS laptop with an internal modem. I'm looking at the Ryzen Thinkpad with great interest! But so far I haven't found one with both the screen I like (OLED) and the keyboard I like (pageup and pagedown around the up key), but as soon as I get 4/4 of my core requirements I'll move to AMD, as a Xeon is a bit power hungry :)
• f311a 4y ago
  I think 32GB of RAM should be the base for PRO models. In a lot of countries, custom models take almost two months of waiting. The M2 Max models have 32GB, but they cost $4000.
  • peanuty1 4y ago
    That's ridiculous. A lot of people buy the MacBook Pro simply because the only other MacBook has a small 13" screen.
• dblooman 4y ago
  For those on the M2 Pro mac mini path, the Mac Studio looks a look more appealing. 32GB RAM, Max CPU and more ports for the same money. Will have to wait for benchmarks, but seems like more computer for the money if you upgrade the mini
  • rtp4me 4y ago
    Thanks for this. Yesterday I picked up a new Mac Studio M1 Max with 32G RAM and 1TB NVMe, and today I see the new Mac Mini M2 Pro with 12 CPUs, 32G RAM, and 1TB NVMe for about the same price. Any idea the performance delta between the M1 Max and M2 Pro? Wondering if I should trade my new system in for the new Mac Mini Pro...
  • Tagbert 4y ago
    The sweet spot for the Mini is the 16/512GB M2 Pro at $1299. It is significantly less expensive than the Mac Studio. Unless you need 32GB of RAM and a lot more GPU cores, the Mini will do nicely.
• shrubble 4y ago
  The ThinkPad P15 gen 1, shipped in 2020 with 128gb RAM available... for example: https://www.techradar.com/news/this-is-the-best-value-128gb-ram-laptop-out-there-and-it-costs-far-less-than-you-think https://www.techradar.com/news/this-is-the-best-value-128gb-... So I don't see why Apple would make the claim that their 96gb setup can load models that PC laptops can't...
  • ericmay 4y ago
    I haven't looked into this (and couldn't care less) but it probably has something to do with newer technology in the RAM. Not all RAM is created equal.
  • dagmx 4y ago
    Did it ship with 128GB available to the GPU? That’s part of the claim, because this has a huge amount of RAM that both the CPU+GPU can access.
    • sudosysgen 4y ago
      Plenty of laptops with iGPUs that can do this, yes.
      • agloeregrets 4y ago
        ...Not exactly and this is a silly comparison anyways Apple dynamically scales the GPU memory while Windows GPU memory must be reserved. If you have 64GB of Ram and want 32GB of VRAM you now...always.... have 32GB of system memory. But furthermore...that iGPU is like 1/10th the performance of an M1 Max lol, absolutely nobody should EVER do this on an iGPU. Their argument is that on a dedicated card you just can't do this.
        • sudosysgen 4y ago
          It is not true that iGPU memory always has to be reserved anymore. Some programs and APIs don't support it, but you can address main system memory from many iGPUs and vice-versa. In Vulkan for example you can do this by setting the HOST_COHERENT, HOST_VISIBLE and DEVICE_VISIBLE for a buffer. Of course, this is subject to driver bugs, and you have to be careful with caches that may or may not be shared depending on the specific iGPU. Beyond this, newer iGPUs like the RX680M are comparable in performance to an M1 Pro. Certainly sufficient for any model visualization task, since that's what we're talking about.
• hajmo97 4y ago
  Does someone of you use the whole potential that this kind of chip offers ? What do you use it for ?
  • sergiomattei 4y ago
    No, but that’s why I love it so much. For my daily coding workflow, the fan never even spins. This is Docker, many containers, many many windows. With docker on, battery lasts a fair bit. Without it on, running on bare metal, could last me days.
  • password1 4y ago
    I use it to have Xcode reboot faster after it crashes.
    • hajmo97 4y ago
      This is exactly what makes Apple engineers get up every day, to deliver a better chip for this kind of use cases :D
  • david_allison 4y ago
    Specced out M1 (except storage): * 32GB RAM would not have been sufficient, glad I went for 64. * CPU is exceptional, but significant gains would be seen with more power (or code/process optimisation): unit tests (Robolectric) still break the 'flow' threshold (1s). Xcode compiles + full test suite runs break the 'attention' threshold (10s). * GPU is occasionally useful, but I don't do much ML/video work Usage: * I have enough RAM to keep 3 IDEs open + various electron apps + Office Suite + Windows/Ubuntu VM + 2/3 phone emulators + up to a few hundred Chrome Tabs. Fans are silent and laptop is cold. * Fans spin heavily when running a full unit test suite (JVM/Android) * Fans spin heavily when gaming (via Parallels) * Fans spin slightly when running Stable Diffusion
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• achairapart 4y ago
  Pro, Max, Ultra, any combination of these. I can't understand any of these. Not that it means anything more than an artificial fragmentation to bring in more upsell opportunities. Looks like 90s Apple again, at least from this point of view. I understand the old (simple and brilliant) four-quadrant is not going to fit anymore, but this is just the opposite extreme.
  • sergiomattei 4y ago
    It’s not that complicated. Good, better, best. You can customize any of these with the specs you need on their website.
  • Invictus0 4y ago
    Really? There's 4 processors and 2 generations, it's not that hard. Compare to intel: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/details/processors/core/i7/products.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/details/pro...
    • jslql 4y ago
      With Intel higher = better. What’s better, ultra or pro?
      • masklinn 4y ago
        Ultra since pro is the baseline adjective. Not that I find the naming any good but Max v Ultra would have been more of a head scratcher.
        • jslql 4y ago
          I assume Max is better since there’s nothing higher than the maximum.
          • masklinn 4y ago
            Which is why it's more of a head scratcher. Pro < Max < Ultra. The Max is a Pro with (up to) double the number of GPU cores (and memory controllers), the Ultra is two maxes stapled together: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/03/apples-m1-ultra-tapes-two-m1-max-chips-together/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/03/apples-m1-ultra-tape...
• anovikov 4y ago
  Gimme a M2 Max Macbook air with 15 inches...
  • peanuty1 4y ago
    I'll take any Apple Silicon MacBook Air with 15".
• symlinkk 4y ago
  Where can I buy the old one at a discount?
  • dmitrygr 4y ago
    craigslist?
• tfrutuoso 4y ago
  Intel and AMD have a lot of catching up to do on the hardware front. Software wise... meh.
• gigatexal 4y ago
  96GB of ram is nice. Gonna cost my firstborn and all my money but nice.
• galleywest200 4y ago
  I have been waiting to buy a new M1 14-inch Pro until after I had paid off my car. This is perfect timing for me.
• kmeisthax 4y ago
  If Hector Martin doesn't say that they fixed the memory-mapping bug in their PCIe controller[0] I think it's safe to say that we're not getting a new Mac Pro this year. And to be honest, the whole concept of a Mac Pro goes against the design philosophy of Apple Silicon. The whole point of those chips is to maximize efficiency by having everything on-die or very close to the chip. For example, the M2 Max has like eight memory channels in a laptop - you could not do that even with CAMM[1] modules. A desktop machine without replaceable RAM or slots that can accommodate GPUs is going to be a nonstarter no matter how good the the SoC's integrated accelerators are. A significant chunk of the cost of the Mac Pro is just the fancy desktop case, specifically designed to accommodate lots of expansion cards and compute accelerators. If you don't care about slots, you can just buy a Mac Studio for less money than the Pro. If you do want slots, only being able to plug in storage and I/O devices and nothing else is going to be a huge drag. [0] Apple Silicon PCIe controllers have a unique limitation in that they prohibit accessing external memory devices. This is why Thunderbolt eGPUs don't work - the M1 and M2 can't actually write to the memory on the GPUs. [1] Compression Attached Memory Module, a JEDEC standard for a thin dual-channel RAM card promoted by Dell to allow socketed high-performance RAM on business laptops.
  • s3p 4y ago
    Thank you for the citations with definitions :)
  • dijit 4y ago
    > This is why Thunderbolt eGPUs don't work - the M1 and M2 can't actually write to the memory on the GPUs. I thought the major reason was simply lack of drivers. When I consider that I can use direct mapped M.2 storage over Thunderbolt; or use 100GBit network cards over Thunderbolt 4 (with a PCIe adapter) I wouldn't think that I was limited to mapping memory in the SoC.
    • kmeisthax 4y ago
      I'm skipping over a few details here[0]. ARM has several different classes of memory access mappings; the normal one is called... well, Normal. I/O and storage is mapped using Device mappings, which don't cache reads and can be further divided into how little the CPU is allowed to try and optimize writes[1]. GPUs need Normal memory because applications written for modern graphics APIs expect to be able to map GPU memory into themselves and read and write to it like CPU memory. The ARM spec for I/O is that you are always allowed to use whatever mapping type the device needs, and that less-strict mappings should, in the worst case, "fall back" to stricter ones. Apple handles this differently; the SoC fabric requires you use the specific device mapping that it expects for a particular device, and if you try to use something looser or stricter than what it wants, it will drop the transaction and raise an exception. And of course the SoC fabric will not allow Normal memory reads or writes to hit a PCIe device. As far as the Asahi Linux team is aware, there isn't a way from the CPU to turn off this behavior. It's also not the only implementation of PCIe on ARM that locks out PCIe memory. Raspberry Pi 4's PCIe support[3] also has the same design flaw. If it was just a driver problem, someone would have ported AMDGPU to ARM and ran it on Asahi Linux by now, and we'd be posting cool benchmarks between the internal and external GPUs. You don't notice this problem for I/O or storage because those never need to be mapped as Normal. [0] And probably still skipping over more details, since I'm not an ARM expert. This is just what I've gleaned from reading other kernel developers' Mastodon and Twitter feeds. [1] Which, BTW, the M1 also screws up. You're supposed to be able to pick posted writes[2] or non-posted writes; Apple Silicon specifically refuses transaction types that don't match what the hardware expects. See https://lore.kernel.org/linux-arm-kernel/20210120132717.395873-4-mohamed.mediouni@caramail.com/ https://lore.kernel.org/linux-arm-kernel/20210120132717.3958... for more info. [2] Write instructions finish before the write is actually sent to the device. [3] Yes, it has PCIe. One lane of it, used to drive an external USB 3 controller. You can of course repurpose it for other things.
• deleted 4y ago
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• cloudengineer94 4y ago
  The M1 and M1 Pro chips are absolutely insane. Been using them ever since day 1 and for me there is no way to go back to using Arch Linux natively unless Qualcomm or someone else starts making some good ARM chips.
  • maxim_b 4y ago
    You embraced OS X now, or running Arch on a VM?
    • deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
• jonnycomputer 4y ago
  Where is the new 27" iMac? That's what I want to know. I ended up buying legacy Intel Macs for staff because the extra screen real-estate is really useful.
  • jonnycomputer 4y ago
    What, people don't like me pointing out a big gaping hole in their product selection? pffft
  • jmull 4y ago
    Don't hold your breath. If they intended a 27" iMac I think you would have seen it already. At this point I think you either go with the 24" one or something like the mini with an external monitor of whatever size you like.
    • jonnycomputer 4y ago
      You might be right, though I don't know why they'd do that.
• arepublicadoceu 4y ago
  So the battery life is alluring me to splurge the money for this. But I’m a bit worried because my wife laptop, bought in 2018, already have a 5% health life on its nvme. I don’t worry as I can simply replace it but those macbooks have it soldered. So I guess my question is, what’s the expected lifespan of their SSDs? My current laptop will turn 11 this year, and after battery and ssd replacement it still works great. Can I reasonably expect the same lifespan from macbooks?
  • ericpauley 4y ago
    Are you saying it's used 5% of its total life? That seems pretty good over 3+ years, for an estimated overall lifespan of 60 years. No doubt the machine will be replaced for some other reason by then.
    • arepublicadoceu 4y ago
      5% left. Meaning that the ssd is almost dying.
      • nfriedly 4y ago
        I'd recommend taking it into an Apple store and asking them about it. I don't think I've ever in my life seen an SSD with less than 80-90% life left. Something has to have gone wrong for it to have burned up 95% of it's life in ~5 years of normal usage.
        • dabernathy89 4y ago
          IIRC there was an issue early on with the M1 Macs that involved way higher than normal swap usage, and was potentially bad for SSDs. But I thought that was fixed within months.
          • nfriedly 4y ago
            Yeah, that sounds like a plausible culprit. And I wouldn't consider it outside the realm of possibility for Apple to replace the SSD for free - even if the laptop is now out of warranty.
• crossroadsguy 4y ago
  And the laptop comes with a one year warranty. Extending the warranty means pretty much another laptop’s price from other OEMs. RAM still 8GB in many base models (not sure if that’s so in all the lines) and then there’s this thing how easy to repair these are. I wish my laptop buying strategy was like everybody else’s — Shiny new toy, just get it! :)
  • foxandmouse 4y ago
    An extended warranty is 300cad for 3 years and 100/year after that. I think that is more than reasonable for the best product-service available. I would be a lot less comfortable using such an expensive device if the service wasn't so comprehensive. AppleCare is one of my favourite "features" that comes with every apple product.
• diimdeep 4y ago
  Adobe products lag even in new Macs with 40bln transistors M2 Pro CPU. Hilarious. How hard it must be to scale bitmap without lags ? https://youtu.be/6Ij9PiehENA?t=457 https://youtu.be/6Ij9PiehENA?t=457
  • another_kel 4y ago
    This is Illustrator, not photoshop, so it's vector. It doesn't really lag, the bounding box moves smoothly, but the preview is absent. To get preview you need gpu acceleration[1], which is either absent on arm macs or turned off here for some reason. 1 — https://helpx.adobe.com/illustrator/kb/gpu-performance-preview-improvements.html https://helpx.adobe.com/illustrator/kb/gpu-performance-previ...
• lofaszvanitt 4y ago
  Boring, zero innovation for years.
• jdlyga 4y ago
  Interestingly enough, I've noticed that Best Buy quietly cut their Macbook Pro M1 Pro / M1 Max 400 dollar discount to 134 dollars. I guess they're hoping more sales will trickle in for people looking at the new models.
• mcculley 4y ago
  Did they figure out how to put a cell modem in it?
• ZiiS 4y ago
  Whilst I am utterly impressed with my M1 Pro; they are comparing to the "fastest Intel-based MacBook Pro" which is 4 years old when Intel was struggling anyway. Not at all representative of what they could have done with the latest Intel or AMD silicon.
  • tracker1 4y ago
    Yeah, it's a bit cherry picked, especially since the last gen Intel based macbooks had horrible throttling and fan maxing out issues... I think the cooling design was insufficient, or they should have lowered the max voltage slightly.
    • deleted 4y ago
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  • linsomniac 4y ago
    They do also give, further down the page, some comparison with the M1 MAX, saying 20% faster (except for memory bandwidth which is twice as fast at 200GB/sec).
  • AOsborn 4y ago
    Funny, I felt personally targeted in the release video. I have a 2019 MBP I have been waiting to upgrade, and I suspect a more than a few others are in the same situation.
  • etchalon 4y ago
    They comparison exists because the majority of buyers will probably have an Intel-based Macbook Pro. From a marketing perspective, it is more useful to focus on how much faster it is than that product than it would be to focus on how much faster it is than some-very-specific Windows laptop, or an M1 Pro.
• benlower 4y ago
  Would really love to be able to run Windows natively on the M2. Anyone running Windows as their daily driver on an M2 via emulation? How does that experience compare to macOS on the M2?
• mathverse 4y ago
  The biggest issue I have with macbooks is that they are ridiculously expensive. They are intended to be portable devices but bringing them anywhere outside my apartment or office is just a huge risk.
  • FearlessNebula 4y ago
    They’re not much more expensive than a Windows laptop of similar specs and quality. AppleCare is fairly cheap if you’re concerned about damage.
    • kitsunesoba 4y ago
      Yeah, they’re just not Barry’s Bargain Basement laptops. Comparable models from Dell, Lenovo, HP, etc cost just as much.
      • tnel77 4y ago
        “Apple is so expensive” is essentially a meme at this point.
  • nomel 4y ago
    > are ridiculously expensive What makes you say this? Have you speced two systems lately? Last I did, the MacBook was comparable to cheaper for the price/performance. Of course, a 10lb mobile desktop with a 30 minute battery was closest. What comparable notebook do you have in mind?
    • Yujf 4y ago
      It depends on how you spec it. Apple charges an arm and a leg for ram/storage upgrades
      • Lio 4y ago
        I was about to say the same thing but I've just had a look at Dell for a product comparison. It seems crazy to me that in 2023 Apple offer a £2,699.00 laptop with just 512Gb of non-upgradable storage. Looking at Dell's Precision line bundled with Ubuntu, they might be user upgradable but they're still roughly a similar ball park to Apple price wise. Personally I'm going to need to see some full package benchmarks before I can form an opinion and will be weeping either way.
• caradine 4y ago
  I literally just ordered the M1 Pro yesterday...
• arange 4y ago
  Happy to see more Wifi 6E finally on Apple products
• wslh 4y ago
  Could you change your MacBook Pro if you bought (now an older) one one month ago?
• nowherebeen 4y ago
  I just checked the trade-in value for 16inch M1 Pro 10 core CPU 16 core GPU with 32GB on the Apple website. It's only worth $700USD. I would have thought they would pay more for a 1 year old laptop. I am not looking to upgrade, but am quite surprised by how low the trade-in value is.
  • randyrand 4y ago
    that’s paltry
  • jonnycomputer 4y ago
    I'm sure you could sell it yourself for more than that. I'd certainly buy it at that price.
  • manv1 4y ago
    It's better for you to sell it on the secondary market, the 16" MBP M1 should be worth about $1400-1600 USD in about a month after the M2 ships.
• salzig 4y ago
  i find it quite strange that the Mac Studio is still on M1. Even the Mini is already M2.
  • sbuk 4y ago
    Ultra hasn't been announced yet. They'll wait until that's production ready before offering it up.
• ant6n 4y ago
  The cheapest model with 96GB is 4300USD. Yikes.
• college_physics 4y ago
  How would this compare with the best current intel based laptop (running linux). Primarily cost-wise and computational performance wise. The comparisons offered are with previous macbook models and that is not particularly interesting or illuminating if you are not an existing user.
  • paulsmal 4y ago
    The best Linux option laptop at the moment are probably lenovo thinkpad z13 and z16 with 6xxx AMD Ryzen CPUs.
• lwhalen 4y ago
  What is up with the gigantic notch? Deal-killer for me, personally. My Intel MBP works just fine so long as I disable Intel TurboBoost.
  • jffry 4y ago
    The screen protrudes up into what would otherwise be a solid black bezel on either side of the camera notch, making the screen area taller than 16:10 aspect ratio. The OS puts menu items and icons in that bonus space, freeing up _more_ of the uninterrupted rectangular main body of your screen for your apps. I think if you go into fullscreen mode with an app, it'll blank out the area to either side of the notch and just use the main screen space (or maybe that's configurable for notch-aware software to decide? IDK)
  • darkstar999 4y ago
    I never notice it. It's usually dead space of the menu bar. I agree that it is a strange design, but I don't think it should be a deal killer for anyone.
  • ClassyJacket 4y ago
    The only thing that's in there is a very low quality webcam and an ambient light sensor so as far as I can tell it's 90% empty black space.
    • johncalvinyoung 4y ago
      it's not magical, but if Apple's 1080p camera is 'very low quality', I have plenty of experience on potato-cams to talk about, even in the previous generation. I also suspect that the design was intended for Face ID, but that obviously hasn't happened yet. I'd keep touch ID, thank you very much.
    • Tagbert 4y ago
      We’ve seen the actual camera/sensor module and its mounting hardware. It is pretty close to the size of the blacked out area in the menu bar. That notch is a very clever way to expand the size of the screen without increasing the size of the case. There is very little downside. that middle part of the menu bar is not used by most apps. When there are more menu items, the system automatically skips over that notch.
• camgunz 4y ago
  I bought a MBP 14 (max 32, 32GB, 2TB) Dec 2021 and I mostly don't regret it (probably should've only gotten 24 GPU cores and gone silver). Here are some pros and cons I don't think get enough play: - Turning on "Low Power Mode" when on Battery gives me roughly 10h of battery life. Functionally this is more than good enough for me. - Backlight leakage around the keys feels janky - It's pretty hard to pick it up unless you get it by the back vent, also yeah, it's heavy - The resolution is pretty weird. I wish it were really 4k, then bumping it down to FHD with an integer scale would make sense. As it is, the integer scale is 1512x982, which many websites think (including some you might build!) is a tablet. - Viewing angles on the screen are not at IPS levels. At regular usage distances you can definitely see a difference around the outer 1/3 of the screen. - Dark text on a light background is different than light text on a dark background. When I do `set bg=light` in Vim I usually need to use a thicker font or turn on antialiasing. I think most people should get the M2 Air (or the M1 even). I have a couple of reasons that going 14 max makes sense for me: I moved abroad and my brother and I keep in touch via gaming (a lot of Steam games, etc. work pretty well on it), and I'm planning on getting back into music. Otherwise, I would argue that: - the IPS screen on the Air is better for text - the Air's battery life is another class - the Air is much lighter - the Air's resolution is more mainstream and usable Some Air things are dealbreakers. M1 tops out at 16GB, M2 at 24, and they only do 1 external monitor. But w/e.
  • tomaskafka 4y ago
    Yes, M1 Air still kills it. I use one for app development, and the gains of Pro just aren't worth it. Plus it's superlight and fanless, and can easily drive 1440p screen at 165hz, so I don't even miss the high fps screen.
    • metaltyphoon 4y ago
      Not for me. The M1 Pros were on discount for $1499 not too long ago. The screen alone vs the air is worth a it, if you use a lot for reading.
      • tomaskafka 4y ago
• orange_fritter 4y ago
  Curious of the battery life of the M2 Pro vs M2 Max. Either processor is fast enough for my needs so battery is really priority.
• grogenaut 4y ago
  What the hay, only 32 gb ram max and 1tb SSD max. I'm over both for last 2-3 years on my 2019 Intel with 64/2. The 2tb was critical for a project in 2021.
  • dabernathy89 4y ago
    where are you seeing 1TB max?
    • grogenaut 4y ago
      Their website for the new ones... Aah you can configure after the first page... Nm thanks for pushing
• manv1 4y ago
  The great news? Price drops on the M1 MBP!
• rcarmo 4y ago
  The Mini is much more exciting than the MacBook, actually. Shame it only gets (up to) a Pro CPU, so I guess the Studio will get the Max/Ultra in a few months...
• djtriptych 4y ago
  My new setup as of November is an M2 Air (16GB /1 TB) and an base model M1 Studio. I really couldn't be happier. I run a small WFH / Music Production / Photography studio in my basement and I really wanted an always-on always connected computer, for which the Studio has been perfect. The M2 Air is pretty close to a perfect laptop. My complaints (low audio volume, slighty cramped screen) are absolutely dwarfed by the long list of decades-old issues this laptop just eliminates: - All day battery life. Basically like the Apple Watch - charge it overnight and it's really good all day with normal workloads (e.g. not rendering video). But it was absolutely surreal the first couple of weeks watching an hour long show while running a dozen apps and seeing the charge go from 100% to like 98%. It makes no sense and I had to adjust work habits. - Extreme snappiness. It's in every way snappier than my previous computer, a 32GB 2019 MBP. It _might_ be slower on long CPU-bound or RAM-bound workloads, but photo editing is both and it feels faster on the Air. - Form factor. It's my first Air. I'm not going back. I'm 40+ and keeping extra pounds off my lower back matters for me. The Air, if it's all you're carrying, is barely noticeable. It's just fantastic. If you were wondering if you can replace an MBP with the Air yet, it's almost certainly a yes (though I wouldn't try all this on 8GB RAM). At $2000, what I paid, it's a revelation. Also if like me you work on a desktop/laptop Apple setup at your desk, the new continuity features are totally incredible. Working with the studio/air together is totally seamless (You can extend the screens and use the same keyboard/mouse). It just works. Apple really is getting a lot of things exactly right on the software side in the Apple silicon era.
  • newsclues 4y ago
    Your laptop complaints are addressed by the MBP models, which aren't much heavier if that is your primary objection.
    • wpm 4y ago
      The 14" M2 Pro is 30% heavier than the M2 Air and 20% thicker. I don't really classify that as "not much". I have a 14" M1 Pro from work and a personal M2 Air and it's always surprising how much heavier the M1 Pro feels from my Air.
• eptcyka 4y ago
  Can't wait for good linux support on these, then they will be great.
• trynewideas 4y ago
  > With up to 96GB of unified memory in the M2 Max model, creators can work on scenes so large that PC laptops can’t even run them.4 ... > 4. Testing was conducted by Apple in November and December 2022 using preproduction 16-inch MacBook Pro systems with Apple M2 Max, 12-core CPU, 38-core GPU, 96GB of RAM, and 8TB SSD, as well as a production Intel Core i9-based PC system with NVIDIA Quadro RTX 6000 graphics with 24GB GDDR6 and the latest version of Windows 11 Pro available at the time of testing, and a production Intel Core i9-based PC system with NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti graphics with 16GB GDDR6 and the latest version of Windows 11 Home available at the time of testing. OTOY Octane X 2022.1 on preproduction 16-inch MacBook Pro systems and OTOY OctaneRender 2022.1 on Windows systems were tested using a scene that requires over 40GB of graphics memory when rendered. Two things: - The Quadro RTX 6000 shipped in 2018 and the GeForce RTX 3080 Ti is a 12GB card vs. the 24GB 3090 or 3090 Ti, much less a 4090. I get that it's a marketing eye-roll claim, and it's cool to see a laptop post up against those specs, but why is Apple even bothering to measure performance against 4-year-old or under-specced cards? I wouldn't expect a 40GB OctaneRender scene to run on a 12GB gaming card or 4-year-old Quadro on any system. - If 60% of VFX workstations are running Linux vs. 11% of macOS,[1] how does the M2 Max MBP stack up against a garden-variety Linux workstation? 1: https://drive.google.com/file/d/15b-4GMTSEE9tyqeQdBfy_LZnxQIdp38Y/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/15b-4GMTSEE9tyqeQdBfy_LZnxQI...
  • amatecha 4y ago
    Well, to be fair, if you go to NVIDIA's site for "professional desktop workstations", the Quadro RTX 6000 is precisely what they show first: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/design-visualization/desktop-graphics/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/design-visualization/desktop-gr...
    • touisteur 4y ago
      Yes still waiting for OEMs and integrators to get inventory on lovelace or rtx 40...
    • michpoch 4y ago
      These are desktop cards. Apple is comparing laptops to laptops.
• deleted 4y ago
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• 10xDev 4y ago
  Building a PC doesn't make much sense anymore for most people now with cloud computing, Steam Deck, Apple silicon and GPU prices being ridiculously high.
• yewenjie 4y ago
  I'm waiting for HN to reach a consensus so that I can decide whether to buy this one or the M1 MBP.
  • agloeregrets 4y ago
    It's a spec bump, possibly meaningfully so but if you are on an Intel machine or want two monitors and can find a M1 14inch for ~$1500-$1700 that's a killer upgrade no matter what.
    • DoingSomeThings 4y ago
      Does the M1 14inch support 2 monitors? I was under the impression every M-based laptop only supports a single external monitor.
      • agloeregrets 4y ago
        14 inch M1 Pro supports two external displays, 14 inch M1 Max Supports four, all four can be 5K. Sadly, Apple knows exactly how to get my money from me.
        • masklinn 4y ago
          > all four can be 5K. Only 3, the HDMI out is limited to 4K.
          • agloeregrets 4y ago
            Shoot you are right, they are port limited on the fourth display. (as the M1 Max has double the hardware from the M1 Pro so one can assume it can support quad 5K, but it has only three Thunderbolt 4.)
      • enduser 4y ago
        I am running two Studio Displays off of my M1 Pro 14-inch
• henry_viii 4y ago
  Do the new models come with the touch bar? There is no mention of the keyboard (text or photos).
  • doerig 4y ago
    No, Apple got rid of the touchbar on all models starting with the 2021 MBPs.
    • Eric_WVGG 4y ago
      They really should have called the 2021 MBP-with-Touchbar "Macbook SE"
• rcarr 4y ago
  Start at £2149 in the UK. I bought an equivalent M1 last year for £1729. Price increase of £420. About a 25% increase. Wonder if that’s closer to the true inflation figure rather than the official 11% narrative. Regardless, they look like good machines, surprised they went this low key with the announcement.
  • HatchedLake721 4y ago
    £1729? M1 Pro was £1899 yesterday and for a very long time, I don't remember ever seeing £1729.
    • rcarr 4y ago
      Yeah to be fair I did buy it off Amazon and got it cheap. I bought it the same day they released the new iPhones in October because I noticed the massive jump in prices and that they'd bumped the prices of some other stuff up so I went on Amazon which still had a bunch of stock with the old prices and bought an iPad Air and the MacBook. £1725 as of today: https://amzn.eu/d/5QbkdNz https://amzn.eu/d/5QbkdNz
  • Tagbert 4y ago
    A lot of it is exchange rates and inflation. Apple usually only changes prices when the model changes. the £ was at a record low in September though it has gained back somewhat since then. Still down a lot more than historical levels. http://www.exchangerate.com/charts.html?continent=currency%20charts&last30=365&cid=238&currency=239&action=Generate+Chart http://www.exchangerate.com/charts.html?continent=currency%2...
• londons_explore 4y ago
  In the feature list, the most underwhelming item to me is the '1080p FaceTime HD camera'. Aren't pretty much all cameras at least 1080p by now? I'd expect a top of the line laptop to have a multi-megapixel camera able to push 240fps for slowmo and windowing abilities to allow software zoom while still outputting a high enough resolution feed that someone viewing on another macbook pro can't see the pixels (ie. more than 1080p please!). Heck, on a top of the line macbook, you could even have cameras on each corner so that clever processing could be done to get multiple angles and automatically pretend to have a 2nd cameraman for closeups from another angle. Can anyone provide insight why Apple didn't put more effort into cameras?
  • staindk 4y ago
    I think any effort being put into laptop cameras these days (and for the last 5+ years) is to make them smaller in all dimensions. I'm guessing companies have found that it's always a trade-off between camera quality and bezel size, and a thinner bezel impresses people more than a better camera. I find Apple webcams perform better in video calls than most/all others, so they don't really have much to worry about. If you do want some insanely high quality "webcam", you could buy that magsafe gimmick they showed off last year that allows you to use your iPhone's back cameras as the webcam for your MacBook.
  • ehzy 4y ago
    My understanding is that it's actually quite difficult to fit a high quality camera into a laptop lid. If you look at how thin the lid is you'll notice it's at least twice as thin as a cell phone.
    • londons_explore 4y ago
      Doesn't stop them using compound-eye like designs... They can be very thin and have 100+ 'cameras' over just a few square millimeters, all using the same CCD. As a bonus, they (after a bit of processing) output 3d information, allowing them to use the same system for face ID etc.
      • 4y ago
• eternalban 4y ago
  Anyone else having janky experience with the M1s? I have a 2020 M1 air and have checked for malware. It just acts weird at times.
• deleted 4y ago
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• sneak 4y ago
  No increase in max configurable storage (8TB). 96GB ram is cool but these are targeting A/V production among other things and 8TB is not huge in that regard (unlike 12 cpu cores, 96GB ram, etc). A 12 or 16TB configurable SSD would be nice.
  • agloeregrets 4y ago
    Fair, though I would want that thunderbolt anyways. I would be terrified to be using the internal storage for more than local cache of any project.
    • sneak 4y ago
      File synchronization/backup is a thing. For those of us who travel full-time (hence, maxxed out powerful beast laptop) having dongly-things dangling off is a hazard.
• rekabis 4y ago
  A maxed-out Mini is pretty much half the price of a Studio Max. I wonder which one ends up being a better long-term purchase, in terms of obsolescence and OS support.
• jotjotzzz 4y ago
  Will that mean the M1 MBP 14/16 will get a price decrease? That would be great.
• sergioisidoro 4y ago
  There was just one thing I needed to know - Did they ditch the touch bar? Finally, they did! I have an M1 macbook air because it was the only one without the bar. I've been waiting for this for a long time!
  • BozeWolf 4y ago
    The previous m1 pro’s do not have a touch bar either. Go get the m2, the m1 is already great… highly recommend!
  • deleted 4y ago
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  • david_allison 4y ago
    The 13 inch models have a touch bar. The 14/16 inch don't.
• burntalmonds 4y ago
  I'm an Air convert after years of using 15" macbook pros. Small, light, amazing battery life. Feels just as fast on all 'normal' tasks. If I'm doing some work that needs a lot of power, even a maxed Pro wouldn't be enough.
  • yesimahuman 4y ago
    Agreed. Now they just need to ship a 15" MBA. It would be the perfect laptop and more than capable for most people and devs. I have the 13" M2 Air and I've realized the screen is just too small for me. Maybe we'll see it this spring?
• sandstrom 4y ago
  Will this computer finally support daisy-chaining? Also known as Multi-Stream Transport (MST), it's from the DisplayPort 1.2 spec. It's the ability to connecting two displays via one cable. Any 5+ year old PC has support for it. But your $3,000 Macbook Pro doesn't.
  • mulmen 4y ago
    Well the OS level support for multiple monitors us essentially user-hostile so not sure why you would try this anyway. I gave up on dual monitors as soon as Ultrawides became available and my Mac life is better for it.
  • kika 4y ago
    I have M1 Max Macbook Pro and two monitors daisy chained. Mbook -> OWC TB4 hub -> BenQ 3220U -> TB to DP => Dell 2718Q -> are TB cables => is DP (Display Port) OWC hub is optional, scheme works without it the same. I use the hub to connect also external 10G network and a card reader. NB: not an advice to buy BenQ PD3220U, see this: https://www.reddit.com/r/BenQ/comments/qsmvn2/pd3220u_kvm_bug_with_new_macbook_pro_m1_max/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BenQ/comments/qsmvn2/pd3220u_kvm_bu... No solution so far. BenQ thinks it's the Apple bug, Apple probably thinks something, but doesn't tell.
  • AceJohnny2 4y ago
    Probably not. Last I looked into it, it seemed like a driver issue, where macOS chooses to setup the MST screen as a mirror of the other MST display instead of a separate display.
  • deanc 4y ago
    As an alternative to this, you can grab a thunderbolt dock. You can input 2/3 monitors into this, and all your other peripherals - then one cable into your macbook. My Caldigit TS4 charges my macbook at 90W, has 2 x 27" monitors running at 120hz (i could go higher but i can't perceive the difference so i'll save the bandwidth), has 2 external drives and can read my SD card to import photos. The thing has so many ports and if you have lots of peripherals it doesn't matter how many ports your laptop has as you'll not want to bother plugging them in and out if you move around a lot (I do). I can't rate the TS4 highly enough.
• jrochkind1 4y ago
  Of course I bought a new 14" MBP with M1 Pro two weeks ago. Looks like if i had waited, I could have paid the same price for faster CPU with more cores, faster wifi, and 8K HDMI output. I guess that's how it goes.
  • Alex3917 4y ago
    You can return it within 14 days of receiving it.
    • jrochkind1 4y ago
      I did not know that, thank you! But looks like I mis-spoke, the thing was actually ordered Dec 29, delivered Dec 30. So actually two and a half weeks, a few days past 14, which does look like the return deadline in USA. I found a "check return eligibility" button... yep, nope.
  • manv1 4y ago
    You're inside the return window.
  • Lramseyer 4y ago
    Check the return policy on your laptop. You might still be within the return window!
  • schrodinger 4y ago
    Aren’t you within the return window?
  • orliesaurus 4y ago
    in most countries you can return your MBP within 30 days of purchase for free upgrade
  • HatchedLake721 4y ago
    For the future, this is very useful https://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#mac https://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#mac
• f8 4y ago
  I love the MBP with the M1 chip, but my biggest gripe is it lacks dual monitor support natively. I shouldn't have to use DisplayLink to get the second monitor working. Just been working on a single monitor since I got this thing because I heard DisplayLink is a buggy resource hog.
  • acchow 4y ago
    Can you explain what you mean by "lacks dual monitor support natively"? I run two monitors on my MBP M1.
    • deergomoo 4y ago
      I believe OP has the 13” MacBook Pro, which runs the plain M1 from the Air, not the M1 Pro or Max of the 14” and 16” models.
      • f8 4y ago
        Ahh so that's what it is. I was confused because my coworker has the MBP with an M1 and dual monitor works fine for him. But that ran contrary to all research on my MBP specifically. Seems I'm due for an upgrade at some point in that case...
        • Tagbert 4y ago
          The 13” MBP has an M1 processor that only has support for 1 external display. It has the same internals as the MacBook Air. The 14” and 16” MacBook Pros have M1 Pro and M1 Max processors and they support more video streams. The M1 Pro supports 2 external displays and the M1 Max supports 4.
• sefke 4y ago
  I've noticed that the base model has more cores than the base M1 one. For the same amount of money!
• School-Cotton 4y ago
  Is there expected to be a difference in CPU performance between the 12-core M2 Pro and the 12-core M2 Max ?
• swe_dima 4y ago
  These new ARM chips are almost perfect, the only bad part is... ARM. Most backend devs these days use Docker, and serious Docker usage on M1/M2 macs isn't really possible due to bugs and super slow performance. I was doing benchmarks and for our workloads images would build several times slower as well as our test suites. We had many devs in our company buy the shiny macbooks only having to return them due to incompatibilities with Docker. My computer journey was Windows -> Linux -> Macos, now more than decade later I am returning back to Windows, because WSL is a total blessing.
  • jstx1 4y ago
    I don't know what you mean about Docker - in my experience it runs just fine on M1.
    • inadequatespace 4y ago
      You must be jocular then. He said serious usage. (In all seriousness, I’ve had few problems as well. Sometimes I have to muck with base images but it’s not a showstopper)
    • runjake 4y ago
      They are talking about running production x64 Docker containers, which is slow on M1. If you're using ARM64 containers, then it works pretty well, for the most part.
  • dabernathy89 4y ago
    Docker for ARM Macs should be improved with the latest update: > Yesterday a new @Docker For Mac version was released that will virtualize Intel containers with Rosetta instead of emulating them. https://twitter.com/tobias_petry/status/1613837074356129792 https://twitter.com/tobias_petry/status/1613837074356129792
  • deleted 4y ago
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• dartdartdart 4y ago
  4k 240hz? I don't think HDMI 2.1 even supports that. How can that be? Displayport 2.1 barely supports that
  • jrockway 4y ago
    Compression. Apparently 10k@100Hz is possible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_Stream_Compression https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_Stream_Compression (Depending on your definition of compression, my monitor shows more colors than there are particles in the Universe at 1 billion frames per second. It's just that there's a little bit of quality loss from the compression.)
• breadzeppelin__ 4y ago
  I am currently waiting to take delivery of a 14" M1 MBP. I assume the move here is to cancel it and order the newer one?
  • evanmoran 4y ago
    Yes. A good day for you to hear the announcement :)
  • gumby 4y ago
    Can you wait or do you need a machine immediately. There will probably be some lead time before the new machines are delivered. If you have a computer you can still use the move is definitely to cancel. Then either buy the new shiny or buy the older models (unused or refurb) at a reduced price. These M processors are so good that for me, the ones currently shipping are perfectly fine.
  • masklinn 4y ago
    Depends where you live and how long the delay is. The perf gain should be circa 20%, but in Europe prices got a noticeable bump due to the strong USD (relatively).
  • eludwig 4y ago
    You have 14 days to return it no questions asked. So no worries either way.
    • jb1991 4y ago
      Or 30 days if you’re in Europe.
• meerita 4y ago
  My new job a week ago: –What macbook pro model do you want? 16 or 13? 16 please. Today, they announce m2 pro models hehe
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
• orliesaurus 4y ago
  I want to see how the M2 Pro compares to the M2 Air (not on paper) before pulling the trigger TBH
  • masklinn 4y ago
    Same as before. Possibly a small touch better. Cores are still identical, M2P just has 2 more E cores compared to M1P so in some edge cases it should behave a touch better.
• tiffanyh 4y ago
  I love my M1 MacBook Pro but wowzer, these laptops are getting expensive.
• vanilla-latte 4y ago
  One advantage that I have with the M1 Pro 32 GB RAM over my gaming desktop is that I'm able to run large ML models such as Bloom, Whisper, and Stable Diffusion with reasonable performance.
  • ganoushoreilly 4y ago
    Out of curiosity what are your desktop specs? I have stable diffusion running quite well on a few different systems of varying spec. That said, it's great to be able to take it on the road with you.
    • vanilla-latte 4y ago
      My dev desktop has the following: - Ryzen 5950x - 16 GB RAM - 1070 8 GB The limiting factor was the VRAM. The M1 has the ability to use more VRAM than your typical gaming GPU because of the shared RAM. I see this as a big advantage.
  • abraxas 4y ago
    How are you running them so well? What do you use for your device since CUDA is obviously not supported and 'mps' is not very impressive, compared it to just about any NVidia GPU including the aging 1080ti[1] [1] https://sebastianraschka.com/blog/2022/pytorch-m1-gpu.html https://sebastianraschka.com/blog/2022/pytorch-m1-gpu.html
    • vanilla-latte 4y ago
      I wouldn't say it runs well. It runs faster than my desktop CPU, but slower than my GPU.
• nabakin 4y ago
  Unfortunately no AV1 hardware support yet. Not sure why Apple isn't rushing to add support for the codec they helped create.
  • ksec 4y ago
    >Not sure why Apple isn't rushing to add support for the codec they helped create. Because they didn't help to create it.
    • nabakin 4y ago
      > The governing members of the Alliance for Open Media are Amazon, Apple, ARM, Cisco, Facebook, Google, Huawei, Intel, Microsoft, Mozilla, Netflix, Nvidia, Samsung Electronics and Tencent. https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliance_for_Open_Media https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliance_for_Open_Media Not sure why you think that
      • pas 4y ago
        They are there now, but are they founding members? Did they push for av1 anywhere? It seems their AOM membership is mostly a signal to the license cartels that eventually "paying for codecs is not going to be ok, unless you give us a good deal".
        • nabakin 4y ago
          They aren't founding members, sure, but they are governing members. I doubt they'd be allowed lead the organization built around AV1 without helping it in some way. > It seems their AOM membership is mostly a signal to the license cartels that eventually "paying for codecs is not going to be ok, unless you give us a good deal". Yeah, I really hope this isn't the case. A universal, free, open codec like AV1 would be great to have. There is some evidence[1] of Apple adding support at least. [1] https://www.neowin.net/news/apple-may-finally-be-adding-av1-codec-support-to-multiple-products/ https://www.neowin.net/news/apple-may-finally-be-adding-av1-...
• TMWNN 4y ago
  Have the 14"'s outer dimensions changed any? I am wondering if my 2021's case can be reused.
• fiznool 4y ago
  I’m looking forward to picking up a second hand M1 Max mbp now that these new models are out. M1 is more than fast enough for me, and I’m specifically looking for a native 3 external monitor setup, without any DisplayLink shenanigans!
• Nevermark 4y ago
  May have to upgrade my MBP. I have a Mac Mini M1 driving a 4k screen on my desk-facing wall. Exactly zero complaints! These M-series chips are really great. I will probably replace the Mini with an M2 Ultra Studio, if one comes out soon, but I can't say I really need it. (I highly recommend getting screens off desks and onto walls. Large 4K TVs are cheap. Less clutter, frees up desk space, easy to see & read from anywhere in the room, makes giving demos easy, and -< big bonus for me >- I don't need reading glasses to see it!)
• verst 4y ago
  I just ordered the M2 Pro Mac Mini that was also released. The Mac Studio was a bit excessive for my music production hobby needs, but I do need the extra cores of the M2 Pro models. Really thrilled they released this.
• birthday 4y ago
  My M1 MBP is 30 days old. Somebody please hold me while I cry.
  • sbuk 4y ago
    Same boat. Feel your pain…
• Nevermark 4y ago
  I find the M-Mac to best Intel-Mac comparisons humorously deceptive. I imagine the Mac marketing team now, giddy happy at the thought of increasingly ridiculous M-Mac to Best-Intel-Mac comparisons over the next 10 years. The claims will either come across as helpfully deceptive (for Apple), or as a funny inside joke (for informed customers). Intel desperately needs to create their own bootleg Intel-Macs to defend against this sneaky Monty Python marketing strategy!
• yieldcrv 4y ago
  Too bad that architecture caps out at 96gb 32gb - 128gb all have the same utility for me, with expanded utility beginning at 128gb
• veidr 4y ago
  I discontinued the use of macOS for programming/work stuff for a few reasons, but a huge one was lack of 8K display support. When my Linux workstation got the (old) 31.5" Dell 8K UP3218K, and it ended up on my desk next to my Mac's (insanely expensive) 31.5 Apple 6K XDR Display... the difference was literally night and day. The 220ppi Apple displays looked like deep-fried dukey to me suddenly; it bugged me all day, every day after that. YEMV, but the text rendering 280ppi Dell was phenomenally crisper, better looking, and less blurry. It's something you can't unsee. I'm not sure that there are any HDMI 2.1 displays on the market yet at 31-32" (I haven't checked out this year's CES coverage yet), but these new Macs (MBP and Mini) mark the first non-"Intel Mac with an eGPU" machines from Apple that support 8K. To me, that's the most interesting thing about them.
• skwee357 4y ago
  I must admit I'm disappointed. I own a Mac Mini M1 and a Macbook Pro 16" M1 (the later given to me by my employer), and as a software engineer - I don't feel that the current M1 processor is limiting me in any way. I, however, wanted to get a MacBook for personal use to be more mobile. And postponed my purchase until the release of new Macbooks with one anticipation - lighter devices. Instead I got a new CPU with a bunch of abstract claims by Apple on performance (which for me was never an issue) - in the EXACT same for factor. Same bulky width. Same heavy weight.
  • voidskie 4y ago
    Might I ask, with no intention of being rude, why you thought Apple would introduce lighter laptops? The 14" and 16" chassis are barely over a year old, so a redesign was unlikely, and the M2 Macbook Air is even more recent. Were you expecting a 12" Air perhaps?
    • skwee357 4y ago
      Not rude at all. Before I got M1 macbook, I've had the opportunity to use Intel 15" and later Intel 13" macbooks. They were thin and light. The first thing, after the speed of M1, that comes into mind with ARM based macbooks - is the bulkiness. And so I naturally, assumed, that Apple will try to reduce the bulkiness. I just don't see the point of pumping raw processing speed every year, because not everyone needs it. And my general feeling is that apple is moving away from mid-range machines - light, portable, fast enough - to a high range and ultra-high range machines instead. Not everyone who uses a Mac is rendering 4k videos all day long, and I'd appreciate having a lighter, thinner laptop on the expense of raw processing speed.
• therealbilly 4y ago
  I still run a 2017 MacBook Pro with the 2.9 GHz i7 (admittedly with a recent keyboard replacement.) I only do office productivity stuff on it. The heavy lifting is done on my Dell Xeon desktop workstation. Anyway I'm looking at the M2 mini. That would be cool to poke around with. I'll keep the MacBook Pro as it still runs stellar and with the new battery, I can run all day with careful use.
• rldjbpin 4y ago
  given Apple is now confident with their in-house processors now, i continue to wonder how much of inefficiencies are due to processor architecture v/s inefficient/bloated modern application development.