43 ms·

ElonJet Is Now Suspended

1417 points by ffsoftboiled 4y ago

wabysabi 4y ago
There are so many smart, influencial people on HN. Time to get off Twitter. I quit after 14 years of daily use. Make your voice (not) heard.
throw_a_grenade 4y ago
dupe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33981691 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33981691
selectodude 4y ago
“My commitment to free speech extends even to not banning the account following my plane, even though that is a direct personal safety risk” Elon Musk, 2022-11-06
- aidenn0 4y ago
  Did he really say that?
  - _jal 4y ago
    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456 If you didn't already, now you know what his commitment is worth.
  - awb 4y ago
    Yes: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456
alarmingfox 4y ago
Well it seems like Elon is reneging on his previous commitment to free speech. - https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456
- Finnucane 4y ago
  His commitment to free speech extends to what he personally approves.
- mannykannot 4y ago
  His commitment to his free speech is unwavering.
  - WJW 4y ago
    Unwaveringly low?
    - awb 4y ago
      His commitment to his free speech is unwavering
      - Jaepa 4y ago
        Hey its not just his free speech – its also the free speech of those who agree with him, or is politically aligned with him.
        emodendroket 4y ago
        Note: subject to change
    - yieldcrv 4y ago
      He is using the concept of legal free speech correctly while memeing about a philosophical free speech that matches the colloquialism that many of his sycophants and observers think Legal free speech has only to do with retribution via criminal liability from government organizations, alongside freedom to disassociate from speech and expression that you don't like Twitter is not a government organization and is also not capable of levying criminal charges against anyone, and is free to disassociate from speech and expression it doesn't like thanks to the 1st amendment. Yes, this is the same capability as anyone else and the same possibility as Twitter operated before, aside from different choices of who its leadership chooses to dis/associate with. It is an accurate commitment to free speech.
DHPersonal 4y ago
I think Elon has given up any pretense of being open to criticism, so an action like this seemed fairly inevitable.
- seanw444 4y ago
  Yeah, I don't know why anyone thought Twitter would be a "bastion" of free speech. His history proves otherwise.
  - ancapsfascists 4y ago
    Hacker News fell for it, hook line and sinker. The number of people saying "give him a chance" and "he actually believes in free speech" dominated those who were like, "he'll probably just change who gets banned to be more in line with his personal beliefs."
    - jjulius 4y ago
      >Hacker News fell for it, hook line and sinker. Were we reading the same threads? I've seen countless people on HN predicting exactly this sorta thing happening, even myself.
      - Larrikin 4y ago
        My experience in threads about Elon and his companies, is there is a large number of people who are complete and absolute fanboys in the comments, that also heavily overlaps with a large group of people who have invested in tech stocks trying to get a return on their money. Any criticism I've ever said of Tesla or Elon usually initially gets up votes and then half a day or even a few days later receives a lot of down votes. I always assumed it was people invested in his stocks doing it on their own, but his antics on Twitter show he's the kind of person that might actually employ people to down vote people critical of him and his companies.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
Overtonwindow 4y ago
Just an observation, but it seems that the Twitter files revelations are getting drastically less press than everything else Elon does. It almost feels like kill the messenger
- SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
  Maybe because there's not really anything of much interest there? Do people get bored with these vacuous "revelations" and fake controversies?
- eightysixfour 4y ago
  I have read the “revelations” and… they weren’t that interesting to be honest. Pretty much what I expected.
  - fullshark 4y ago
    Only maybe cause you work in tech (i assume). A lot of people don't know how these content moderation decisions go down. A mix of public rules, subjective parsing of their language, and external pressure. The last one being the one naive people might not really know about. I think it should be more open and less subjective frankly, especially if the external pressure comes from a government official, which means it should be interpreted in many cases as a threat. Edit: I think this is kind of the "smoking gun" of the files (8-12): https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1598827602403160064 https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1598827602403160064 Basically if you give outside actors direct lines to make grievances on content on your platform, you give them special powers to censor content, at the very least boosting the spam/toxic classifiers for stuff they object to. People were not aware of this mechanism.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    They seem to be pretty much what everyone expected. The question is whether that's alarming to you or is it a "nothingburger."
  - SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
    You were aware that Twitter was in direct contact with Democrat politicians and campaigns to censor opponents? It was news to me that they were have weekly meetings with FBI and Intelligence communities where the topic was directly about conservatives in government, I guess I was out of the loop on those.
ndsipa_pomu 4y ago
Looks like he's sprinting towards the endgame of bankruptcy: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/13/technology/elon-musk-twitter-shakeup.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/13/technology/elon-musk-twit...
- DoesntMatter22 4y ago
  Definitely not going bankrupt though people would be happy to see it. Advertisers have come back and the staff is muuuuch smaller than before.
  - throwaway4736 4y ago
    - DoesntMatter22 4y ago
      Just google Apple and other advertisers coming back. Don't be hater/loser.
  - watwut 4y ago
    A lot of that staff he got rid of were exactly people necessary to run large ads sales operation.
  - rideontime 4y ago
    Judging by the quality of ads that are being presented on twitter these days (when I see any at all), this is very obviously not true, no matter how much Elon claims otherwise.
    - BobbyJo 4y ago
      Have to agree with this. The ads I see now are for the kind of things temporary mall kiosks sell. Hard to believe they are raking in ad dollars from those.
  - makestuff 4y ago
suyash 4y ago
I would report all the other accounts as they can present a security threat. This should be private information in the first place.
- llacb47 4y ago
  The FAA requires that most planes transmit ADSB-out. ADSBexchange aggregrates those transmitted signals and displays them online.
- hidelooktropic 4y ago
  It's already public. It's just ported over to Twitter.
  - suyash 4y ago
    it should not be linked to VIPs and tracked like this, it's almost as creepy as stalking what this guy did. reported all his accounts.
    - esarbe 4y ago
      > it should not be linked to VIPs and tracked like this Why not?
      - suyash 4y ago
        It's like saying why don't I spy on you wherever you go, almost like the creepy stalker in Hollywood who terrorizes celebrities and don't respect privacy.
        polygamous_bat 4y ago
        Private jets don't get privacy by FAA rules. If anybody has an issue with that, they can either take it up with FAA or stop using a private jet. Banning an account on Twitter isn't doing anything.
Workaccount2 4y ago
I think Elon is/was trying to bring back the "glory days" of the internet where free speech was the driving force behind tons of early internet projects. Seemingly everyone was onboard with the internet being humanities bastion of free speech and that had to be protected at all costs. Then the wild west internet was developed into a city and well, you just can't walk around shooting your gun wherever you want anymore. And changing the law to let people do that isn't going to bring back the wild west, and is more likely to just cause a bunch of chaos.
- FourHand451 4y ago
  How exactly is he working toward free speech being a driving force? From what I can tell, he's just banning different people.
  - Workaccount2 4y ago
    He's not, he was idealizing it. His rhetoric about free speech harkens back to the early/mid internet days. The internet today is not what it was 20 years ago when you could run a platform where rule #1 was "Free speech is absolute and guaranteed", and could actually fulfill that promise without consequence.
    - Cthulhu_ 4y ago
      20 years ago free speech was still limited by the laws - if you have a site or if you host a site that does something illegal, it'll be taken down. 20 years ago and today. Consequences haven't changed, and I feel like you're glorifying the internet from 20 years ago as some ultimate free place.
      - ethbr0 4y ago
        Really? Because the pre-9/11 Internet I remember had The Anarchist Cookbook et al. widely available, didn't have IP-related domain seizures or OS/browser-based safelists, and had Usenet and IRC instead of Facebook. It seems accurate to say we've regressed in terms of free speech absolutism.
OrvalWintermute 4y ago
I support free speech and consider myself a libertarian, having much in common with the populist-libertarian-right, and the civil-liberties-left. But tracking a flight like this on a regular basis to this intrusive a level strikes me as downright creepy and personally invasive. Are you going to track the locations of his vehicles and where they park next? An alternative argument - if we're going to do it to him, maybe we should do the same to everyone (which is crazy because no one cares that much about random plane movements from rich guys unless they are politically connected, or green hypocrites, or involved in some crime, but Law Enforcement protects this data etc)
- BlargMcLarg 4y ago
  >unless they are politically connected You might as well say 'everyone'. Anyone rich enough to use, let alone own, a private jet is almost by default politically connected.
- yanderekko 4y ago
  >But tracking a flight like this on a regular basis to this intrusive a level strikes me as downright creepy and personally invasive. Yeah, people are saying "it's public info about a public figure", but I'm pretty sure that we could imagine all sorts of creepy-yet-legal digital gang-stalking that one can do, similar to how doxxing is legal but nearly-universally frowned upon. Not to say that the account should have been banned, but I don't see this as just harmless fun like others seem to.
  - Cthulhu_ 4y ago
    Sometimes I feel like these public figures should be tracked even more - like who has been on Epstein's flight / island and should get a hard drive check. In theory the various intelligence services and the FAA have this information, but it's not acted on.
  - fundad 4y ago
    He took the company private to promote his politics. There have been lies about free speech for as long as there has been speech. Can we stop clutching our pearls over this reactionary being, gasp, dishonest?
Zigurd 4y ago
Where else can N628TS be tracked? It looks like some of the most widely used flight trackers do not provide this data.
- jamestanderson 4y ago
  https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a835af https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a835af
- deleted 4y ago
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- deleted 4y ago
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- Cthulhu_ 4y ago
  I read it's because the FAA has a list of flights that cannot be displayed on sites like that, called LADD: https://www.faa.gov/pilots/ladd https://www.faa.gov/pilots/ladd > The Administrator shall, upon request of a private aircraft owner or operator, block the registration number of the aircraft from any public dissemination or display, except in data made available to a Government agency, for the noncommercial flights of the owner or operator.
  - shkkmo 4y ago
    This site seems to confirm that the plane is indeed on the LADD list https://laddlist.com/aircraft/N628ts https://laddlist.com/aircraft/N628ts Thus the only public source is ADSBExchange because it uses croudsourced data. Imagine that people put crowdsourced license place readers on their private property and then through a made an aggregate of this data on the public movements over every car available (and charged commercial users.) That would be quite problematic for personal privacy. ADSBExchange isn't quite the same as that since airplane movement is less granular and thus less privacy is lost. Also, the people who use private jets tend to be rich and powerful, so there's an aspect of "punching up" here that is not present in the crowdsourced car movement analogy. Still, I don't think the privacy considerations here are as cut and dry as the people who are claiming "it's public data, what's the problem?" are making it out to be.
_jal 4y ago
Looks to me like Twitter is financially doomed, and he's doing some combination of messing around with a broken toy and courting favor with like-minded people on the way to bankruptcy.
mbgerring 4y ago
Aside from watching many accounts critical of Elon get banned or suspended, it’s been entertaining to occasionally look at Twitter’s front page logged out, because: 1) If you have no cookies, Twitter constantly recommends that you follow Elon Musk 2) “Elon Musk” appears to be permanently set as a trending topic for logged-out users
- Tenoke 4y ago
  1. Checking from a small second account I get different people but not him in Who to Follow. 2. I just checked in incognito and he's currently not trending for me(from Germany).
- Cthulhu_ 4y ago
  I believe #1 can be explained by him already being (and having been, pre-acquisition) one of the top followed accounts on Twitter, same as Trump during his days.
michaelbuckbee 4y ago
A lot of hypocrisy from Elon here, but I'm at least somewhat sympathetic to taking down these accounts that are tracking people as it's so close to a Doxing or could lead to something bad happening. A few years ago, we were all mad at Uber for their "God View" which tracked celebrity locations -> https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-38314832 https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-38314832
- abraxas 4y ago
  Yeah, meanwhile a guy who has millions of followers and keeps spewing conspiracy nonsense about stolen elections is allowed back in because of course nothing bad could ever happen out of inciting that.
  - GameOfFrowns 4y ago
    - Cthulhu_ 4y ago
      How often has she mentioned the elections were stolen again?
      - GameOfFrowns 4y ago
        >How often has she mentioned the elections were stolen again? Often enough[0] (it's questionable if the Mueller probe would have even happened without Clinton & Democratic Party clamoring for it) and the last time just a month ago: "Hillary Clinton: Right-Wingers Plot To 'LITERALLY STEAL' The Election In 2024"[1] [0] https://eu.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022/10/10/2016-election-fact-check-democrats-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders/69548196007/ https://eu.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022... [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsQAFpe8mEU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsQAFpe8mEU
- ProAm 4y ago
  This is publicly available information. It's nothing close to doxing.
niuzeta 4y ago
Is anyone really surprised at this?
drooby 4y ago
Twitters relevant policy: “Private information: You may not publish or post other people's private information (such as home phone number and address) without their express authorization and permission. We also prohibit threatening to expose private information or incentivizing others to do so. Learn more.” Now.. his fight information is technically “public” but in that same sense, phone numbers and street addresses are also “public”. Thus, a suspension to the flight tracking account seems in alignment with Twitter policy. Elon claimed he would not “ban” the account. And he has not done so. They were suspended. Okay edit lol: I _actually_ didn't know that "Suspended" is the equivalent to "Permanently Suspended" aka"Banned" on twitter. Shocking, I know. I walk back my second statement.
- MisterBastahrd 4y ago
  Are you unaware that when an account is banned on twitter, it is "permanently suspended?" Seriously, I'm trying to be charitable here.
- ptato 4y ago
  > Elon claimed he would not “ban” the account. And he has not done so. They were suspended. So the argument is that the word he used is different?
  - drooby 4y ago
    The words are different because the actions are different.. Ban does not equal suspend. But ehh.. to be fair. It looks like Twitter still does do permanent suspensions… idk how this is different than a ban. So, if this is a “permanent suspension”.. then sure, it’s essentially the same thing and I would concede my point… but we don’t know.
- Cthulhu_ 4y ago
  > Elon claimed he would not “ban” the account. And he has not done so. They were suspended. That's just nitpicking. the ElonJet account didn't "violate Musk's privacy", it just "republished tracker information".
ancapsfascists 4y ago
Good to see I'm vindicated in the prediction that Musk has zero interest in free speech, he only has interest in his narrative being dominant on Twitter.
- Cthulhu_ 4y ago
  His narrative being petty things like "my pronouns are impeach/Fauci", since that's definitely something to spend $44B for.
  - polygamous_bat 4y ago
    I believe that is only the tip of the iceberg, given anti-vax narrative and transphobia is endlessly repeated by those on the far/alt-right. I see the "Prosecute/Fauci" tweet as a signal towards his intended audience for what kind of place he wants Twitter to be.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
      > I see the "Prosecute/Fauci" tweet as a signal Indeed. I saw it described as "he's raised the Batshit signal"
    - minimaxir 4y ago
      It's more that Elon wants positive feedback and there's one only audience that will give it to him at this point.
      - philosopher1234 4y ago
        The way he runs his companies is "do a good job or else ill come in and do your job badly". Hes doing this with the world now. "Find a way to like me or ill fuck you up"
    - deleted 4y ago
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kolanos 4y ago
Didn't ElonJet offer to shut down for a Model 3?
- jaysinn_420 4y ago
  No, Musk offered $5k and the response was maybe @elonjet would shut it down for a model 3.
beaned 4y ago
A lot of very weird vote brigading happening in this thread.
- zarathustreal 4y ago
  Get on in here, the echo's fine!
- ClearAsIce 4y ago
  HackerNews is NOT turning into Reddit (saying such a thing breaks the site guidelines). However I think it's OK to say that any topic about Elon Musk on HackerNews always descends into cringe / misinformation / le spaceship man bad / populism / repetitive memes; all fed by people who apparently source their news from /r/politics and r/whitepeopletwitter on Reddit and Business Insider bottom-tier clickbait media.
- stouset 4y ago
  It's not weird at all. Posts pushing baseless and debunked conspiracy theories[1] are getting downvoted into oblivion. Posts with highly questionable takes[2, 3] are also seeing the same. Even perspectives that tend to agree with the general HN consensus but are overly antagonistic[4] are receiving this treatment. The system is working as intended. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33986398 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33986398 [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33985551 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33985551 [3]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33985732 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33985732 [4]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33985784 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33985784
saboot 4y ago
It's pretty clear Elon wants everyone that has insulted or crossed him or otherwise proven him wrong to suffer some consequence to alleviate his bruised ego. Fauci, ElonJet, and more Think I'm wrong? Let's see if he'll go after Jack Dorsey in the future for recently correcting him on going after CSAM.
- WhackyIdeas 4y ago
  Didn’t Jack Dorsey invest a billion dollars of his Twitter shares in Elon Musk’s takeover?… Hard to imagine him going after him. But then again, Elon is hell-bent on alienating everyone. I was planning on selling our Land Rover and getting a Tesla but I changed my mind because a lot of people will associate me with the guy or think I agree with him. Still.. amazing cars.
  - prottog 4y ago
    > Still.. amazing cars. Are they really that nice? I've been in a few but never owned one. I hear a lot about fit and finish issues unbefitting a car of that price range. What does a Model S get you that an S-class doesn't, or a Model 3 against, I don't know, an Audi A4? Is it just all about that electric drivetrain? I don't yet have a strong preference on electric vs. ICE, but I would gladly pay more to have a car without the "slap an iPad in the middle for every UX" design of the Tesla.
    - Bhilai 4y ago
      Indeed, at this point, if I had the money (or was in the market for an EV) I would buy a Mercedes EQS (or Porche Taycan) instead of Tesla model S or a of BMW i4 instead of a Model3.
      - lisper 4y ago
        My wife has a BMW 330e PHEV. We both love it. We've had it for almost a year and filled the tank twice.
perihelions 4y ago
He's also posted internal Twitter screenshots, allegedly showing a VP was personally involved in @ElonJet moderation. (In the context of an earlier moderation action -- visibility filtering ("VF")). - "A screenshot of what he claimed was an internal Slack channel showed Ella Irwin, the person appointed to replace Yoel Roth as Twitter’s new head of trust and safety, asking a “Team” to “please apply heavy VF to @elonjet immediately." https://www.thedailybeast.com/twitter-account-following-elon-musks-private-jet-gets-shadow-banned https://www.thedailybeast.com/twitter-account-following-elon... ("Twitter Account Tracking Elon Musk’s Private Jet Gets Shadow Banned") https://twitter.com/JxckSweeney/status/1601793881355739143 https://twitter.com/JxckSweeney/status/1601793881355739143
- minimaxir 4y ago
  It's worth noting that Twitter dissolved the Trust and Safety Council after that tweet was posted: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/twitter-disbands-trust-safety-council-rcna61400 https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/twitter-disbands-trus... It's unclear if Ella Irwin still works at Twitter, but giving everything going on I strongly suspect there's no one to moderate against Elon personally banning an account he does not like.
  - stefan_ 4y ago
    She just got the role, why would she no longer work there? Presumably she was put there to enable this, after Yoel Roth abruptly left (and was subsequently defamed as a pedo by Elon, what's with the guy and pedophiles).
    - chris11 4y ago
      She started in June, she then quit shortly after Elon took over, then she was convinced to come back.
    - f38zf5vdt 4y ago
NelsonMinar 4y ago
ElonJet has a website with links to still available versions of the data here: https://grndcntrl.net/links/ https://grndcntrl.net/links/
- zarathustreal 4y ago
  Why?
sbochins 4y ago
I always feel dirty following the latest Twitter news. It feels like reading the tabloids at this point. But anyway, is there anyone that still buys the free speech angle from Musk? So far, he has just brought back some right wing accounts, removed some left wing accounts, and took on personal vendettas, like this. I think Twitter may actually end up making more money in the future. Musk seems to be able to market his companies very effectively. I’m assuming there is significantly more interest in the going ons at Twitter since he took over.
gfodor 4y ago
Dozing a person’s whereabouts isn’t free speech - yes I know you can fish this information out but it’s obvious this is intended to make it easy to figure out where he is. I’m amazed at the replies to this thread arguing this is a speech issue, especially considering the obvious need for heightened security due to what I’d imagine is a flood of death threats.
- kevinmchugh 4y ago
  Death threats are not covered by free speech, but the location of a jet is not a death threat. I don't think you'll find any legal precedent that says doxing isn't protected speech. Doxing is a bit of forum etiquette and is not considered taboo under other norms. It's also incorrect to say the jet's location tells you where Elon is. I have a friend who's ridden that jet. My friend isn't Elon, but worked for him
  - hunterb123 4y ago
    What about stalking??
    - kevinmchugh 4y ago
      Stalking is not speech
- acdha 4y ago
  “fish this information out” makes it sound like it's hard to use any of the common websites which do the same thing. If the goal is security, he either needs to stop flying a personal jet or accept the cost of having adequate physical security where he does. Anyone who was incapable of looking up the jet's location without Twitter is unlikely to be competent enough to pose more risk than they would, say, staking out one of the buildings he frequents.
  - gfodor 4y ago
    Pull vs push. The model where a person’s jet is posted on Twitter is one where the information can go viral and get pushed to everyone. It is a hugely different situation in terms of distribution and expected impressions.
adamsb6 4y ago
I think it's likely that this was reported and actioned without looping in Elon, and it will end up getting undone when raised to Elon.
rrmm 4y ago
Surely, this will be addressed in the next installment of the "Twitter Files". /s
- ismepornnahi 4y ago
  Part 69
- yosefk 4y ago
  I feel like the really interesting part of "The Twitter Files" isn't the arbitrary moderation decisions made (we sort of knew what they were thru their implementation and it's hard for moderation to be "not arbitrary" whether you agree with the decisions or not) but the involvement of US government representatives in it. I'm neither a lawyer nor an American but AFAIK according to past SCOTUS rulings, it is illegal for the government to "outsource censorship" to private parties in order to silence speech protected by 1A. A relative of DNC's Podesta or an FBI lawyer working for Twitter add to the impression more than the legal argument I guess. I think from the legal POV, an @ElonJet suspension backstory wouldn't be as interesting as the other installment of "The Twitter Files."
  - AlexandrB 4y ago
    > I feel like the really interesting part of "The Twitter Files" isn't the arbitrary moderation decisions made (we sort of knew what they were thru their implementation and it's hard for moderation to be "not arbitrary" whether you agree with the decisions or not) but the involvement of US government representatives in it. I haven't followed parts 2 & 3 of the Twitter files. But the irony here is that the government officials involved in part 1 were the Trump administration. Biden was not yet elected and should be considered a private citizen.
    - Jiro 4y ago
      This is one of the ways in which the deep state matters. "The Trump Administration" can be opposed to actual-Trump.
mathlover2 4y ago
Big. Freaking. Surprise. I really hope the account is able to find a home elsewhere. EDIT: He has a Facebook page and a website. I am definitely going to be using the latter.
- zarathustreal 4y ago
  ...? What exactly do you plan on using it for?
  - kcplate 4y ago
    Shame this comment is getting downvoted, it is absolutely the right question people should be asking.
  - boopboopbadoop 4y ago
    For spite.
jchw 4y ago
On one hand: Elon Musk has clearly directly been involved in having accounts suspended in the past, because it happened when he got upset about parody accounts making fun of him. On the other hand: there's no particular information here yet, regarding the reason why the account was banned, nor does anyone know if Elon Musk actually had anything directly to do with it. Elon Musk has a ton of fanboys who would probably continue to report and brigade such an account, so I wouldn't be surprised if that's what happened here.
- zarathustreal 4y ago
  Shhhhh.. Stop trying to be reasonable. Embrace the outrage. Remember, if you and everyone around you all say the same thing it becomes true and everyone everywhere believes it
  - devnullbrain 4y ago
    >Shhhhh.. Stop trying to be reasonable This is a thought-terminating cliche. Inventing a person to pwn instead of pushing your argument directly. It hasn't added anything to the discussion that there isn't already a dedicated button for.
- jchw 4y ago
  I'm surprised this struck so much of a nerve here (based on votes and the reply.) Disappointed, but I'm not going to take it personally; if you're reading this and it's somehow pissing you off, I strongly suggest spending some time away from the computer.
  - meepmorp 4y ago
    > if you're reading this and it's somehow pissing you off, I strongly suggest spending some time away from the computer. I upvoted your first comment because it was a decent and reasonable one. I downvoted this one because your passive aggressive swat at people who disagree with you is bullshit. If you were actually not taking it personally, you wouldn't have mentioned it at all.
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outside1234 4y ago
Just log off from Twitter. Every minute you don't spend on Twitter is another minute we will be closer to Elon having to eat $44B and probably take a horrific haircut on Tesla.
- unnouinceput 4y ago
  [Me not ever having a Twitter account]: I'm doing my part!
- shmageggy 4y ago
  Delete your account. I did. I took stock of how much value it provided me, decided it was not much and declining, and not enough to offset supporting a billionaire megalomaniac large-scale boosting far right bullshit.
  - outside1234 4y ago
    The only gotcha with this approach is that someone can take your handle and then impersonate you - but yes, otherwise, agree.
- electrondood 4y ago
code_lettuce 4y ago
Anyone who is ${surprised_pikachu.gif} by this hasn't been paying attention.
danso 4y ago
Coincidentally, the @TweetTweaker account — which AFAIK was the first to call wide attention [0] to Elon buying up twitter shares right after his $5k offer to @ElonJet was rebuffed — is currently suspended. Its last public interaction was around Nov 6, 2022 [1] https://archive.vn/WLXQJ https://archive.vn/WLXQJ [1] https://twitter.com/GreatPaul_Smith/status/1589424137864609793 https://twitter.com/GreatPaul_Smith/status/15894241378646097...
- grumple 4y ago
  It's pretty amazing that one guy tweeting public info made Elon spend 44 billion.
  - dylan604 4y ago
    yeah, it seems to me that Elon Musk has the emotional stability of a teenager hitting puberty, only filthy rich
  - Hamuko 4y ago
    I imagine an assassination would've been cheaper.
    - swagasaurus-rex 4y ago
      Jail time would be very expensive for somebody who owns several companies
      - hayst4ck 4y ago
        While we're all being glib, I don't know how you can look at America right now and think that law applies to billionaires. I would be astounded if we saw real proportional consequences against any of America's aristocracy. As long as you aren't killing or hurting other billionaires, I think they have practical blanket immunity.
        willhslade 4y ago
sieabahlpark 4y ago
ffggvv 4y ago
isn’t this basically like doxxing? aren’t the people criticizing this move the ones who would be in hysterics if someone did this to a journalist or politician they like? especially if it was a woman of color or whatever preferred group
- mikeyouse 4y ago
  No.
- kayodelycaon 4y ago
  The data is publicly available. See https://flightaware.com https://flightaware.com :) Edit: Here's all of the ORD to GRB flights https://flightaware.com/live/findflight?origin=K https://flightaware.com/live/findflight?origin=K ORD&destination=KGRB Here's all Cirrus SR-20s https://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/SR20 https://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/SR20 (Single engine propeller plane, usually privately owned)
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- Xelynega 4y ago
  No, it's not like doxxing. Doxxing is when you find someone private details and publish them publicly. This account took public information from flight tracking information and published it publicly. That's why it's not the same as publishing the home address of a journalists who is a woman of colour.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - throwawayacc3 4y ago
    >No, it's not like doxxing. Doxxing is when you find someone private details and publish them publicly. That isn't true. >This account took public information from flight tracking information and published it publicly...That's why it's not the same as publishing the home address of a journalists Home addresses and the property owner's information are publicly available, typically from the county. This is not considered "private" information in the US, unfortunately. >who is a woman of colour. Stop being a racist/sexist. Reddit is that way. You can have all the racist/sexist fetishization parties you want over there. Get this garbage off HN.
francisduvivier 4y ago
Wasn't this a bot account? If so, I don't really see what all the fuzz is about.
- minimaxir 4y ago
  Bots are allowed on Twitter if disclosed, which ElonJet was.
  - francisduvivier 4y ago
    Oh interesting, then indeed, certainly worth fuzzing about.
sergiotapia 4y ago
Good, don't be a creepy guy and stalk someone like this.
stephc_int13 4y ago
A lot of people have been naïve about Elon Musk, especially Lex Fridman and Joe Rogan. Elon is not in the Ponzi business like SBF, but we've seen quite a few questionable statements and borderline vaporware predictions. More rational scrutiny and skepticism is needed, as a general rule, for anyone in power.
- cyberlurker 4y ago
  I want to hear Lex Fridman say if he has changed his opinion or not on Elon. I am not sure about Lex. He gives a platform to people who are disingenuous and then doesn't question them hard enough. Another person who defends Elon is Bill Maher. I am curious what he will say in the new year. Also MKBHD.
  - TOMDM 4y ago
    People criticising Lex on his position on the Twitter Files on the lex subreddit were banned recently, despite Lex publicly saying in that same thread he didn't want criticism banned. https://old.reddit.com/r/lexfridman/comments/zf0zqx/the_twitter_files_saga_why_lex_is_wrong/iz9ks30/ https://old.reddit.com/r/lexfridman/comments/zf0zqx/the_twit... Getting echoes of Musk honestly. So I assume Lex continues to be as bought into Musk's narrative.
  - stephc_int13 4y ago
    I still give Lex some credits but I am also suspicious. I think he proved more than once that he is far from an expert on AI/Robotics, and that he tends to be naïve/gullible with his hosts. The hosts themselves are often interesting and the whole setup/duration is nice enough. I don't mind too much about the host being half-smart. Except when he is a simp of Elon his clique. Makes me sad.
erik_landerholm 4y ago
Literally the reason he bought Twitter. Congrats Elon! /s
nothrowaways 4y ago
Ella: "hey sister guess where I am, I'm flying with Elon!" Sister: "oh yeah you are in (lat, lon)?, I saw it on elonjet" Ella opens slack, Ella Irwin: " team apply heavy VF on elonjet "
jupp0r 4y ago
https://mobile.twitter.com/GatesJets https://mobile.twitter.com/GatesJets is still up, maybe this is about Elon after all?
- Sateeshm 4y ago
  Gone now
Nifty3929 4y ago
Does anyone else see any daylight between criticizing someone and tracking their movements? I think there are two cases we should observe to be able to judge motives here: - What happens to Twitter accounts that are heavily critical of Musk, but do not track him or otherwise lead to real-world harassment/violence? - What happens to a Twitter account that is tracking someone else who isn't Musk? If Twitter is allowing the former (Musk criticism), and banning the latter (tracking/harassment of non-Musk people), then I think this is fine.
- nilstycho 4y ago
  As of right now, @bezosjets and @ZuccJet, operated by the same person as @ElonJet, are both active.
  - Nifty3929 4y ago
    Then I agree that this is inconsistent and bad. I'm generally far to the free-speech side always, but I don't think publicly tracking people should be allowed. (In a deliberate, ongoing way. I'm sure there's room for "Hey, I just saw Susan Smith at McDonald's" or such)
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
xqcgrek2 4y ago
Seems bots have invaded HN. Very weird echo chamber-ish thread.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
seydor 4y ago
It doesn't amaze me the things that twitter does to gather attention. It amazes me how well it works
fsoteras_xps 4y ago
Lets generalize the concept of ElonJet , are we ok for apps disclosing localization of anybody main vehicle? e.g.: the localization at any time of the day of your car? or let generalize more: your localization at any moment of the day or the localization of your underage son or daughter? For my case I wouldn't like that at all nonetheless the fact that I am totally unimportant, and I don't see people that frees that data in the open without permission of the tracked ones as users of free speech rights...
- michelb 4y ago
  Elonjet was just reposting public information. Don't want your jet to be tracked? Don't buy a jet.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  > your localization at any moment of the day Your personal body is not an aircraft. Flying one is a privilidge and a safety risk, think 911. If you don't like it, don't fly it.
- insane_dreamer 4y ago
  you can't generalize it because one is made public by FAA regulations and the other is not; the argument, if there is one, is whether FAA should require that information to be publicly available or not, not whether someone republishes that information on their Twitter account
stephc_int13 4y ago
Has Elon ever heard of the Streisand effect?
- mtmail 4y ago
  There's so many Twitter/Elon stories in the news cycle right now I'd be more worried he causes artificial little scandals to distract people from other scandals. Not sure what that strategy is called.
  - chadlavi 4y ago
    It's called being addicted to attention. He's just a troll that wants the news to be constantly talking about him. Negative, positive, doesn't matter to him (and it's easier to garner negative attention).
  - gumboza 4y ago
    Judge baiting at this point.
  - jtylr 4y ago
    Possibly the dead cat strategy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_cat_strategy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_cat_strategy
  - cshimmin 4y ago
    Seems inspired by trump's playbook?
- nroets 4y ago
  The HN community should start our own version: We retrieve the latest ElonJet info and then tweet it. See how many of us Twitter suspends.
  - Lendal 4y ago
    No need. He's already up on Mastodon. Check out the number of follows it already has -> https://mastodon.social/@elonjet https://mastodon.social/@elonjet
forthorbor 4y ago
It was only a matter of time, I can't believe anyone fell for this. As soon as he started banning "parodies" of himself this was the only logical next escalation.
ck2 4y ago
Dude has to pay $1 BILLION per year in financing. He can do whatever he wants, for now, until his debtors own it in a year or two. Everyone needs to use this time to build better alternatives. Personally I'm hoping everyone just goes back to their own blogs and Twitter, Facebook, etc. goes the way of AOL
- itslennysfault 4y ago
  Log live RSS!!!
renewiltord 4y ago
HN has an outrage problem. It's not new. It goes back to the "vote for funding" thing that Moxie won. And it continues with this week's "Google upped my renewal fee" ragebait. And before that it was some claim that one of the FAANGs was exfiltrating network traffic surreptitiously (enthusiastically corroborated by HNers) until discovered to be false. In recent memory, the only time the outrage was justified in hindsight was when ICANN had that issue with .org domains. The rest of the time it has seemed to me that the comments come up with 2 min hate and then emerging facts turn out to be different. My priors are, therefore, quite high that the outrage is usually unjustified. The boy cried wolf too much.
323 4y ago
Just like this story will not survive more than 4 hours on the HN frontpage, despite the number of upvotes/comments.
johnhenry 4y ago
At lest Trump still has our back https://truthsocial.com/@ElonJet https://truthsocial.com/@ElonJet
taolegal 4y ago
[flagged]
maxbond 4y ago
I'm wondering if anyone has recently changed their mind about Elon Musk, in particular about whether he is a free speech advocate?
- cyberlurker 4y ago
  I have definitely changed my mind on Elon from an overly positive opinion of him to being disappointed in him. I thought his free speech push was a genuine attempt, even if a naive approach. But his immature, politics baiting tweets have really exposed who he is. I definitely remember defending his actions in the past and apparently I was wrong. He is an asshole. I still maintain that he isn't stupid though. I enjoyed hearing him discuss SpaceX work on podcast interviews in the past.
  - maxbond 4y ago
    No shame in that. Thanks for sharing
docmars 4y ago
Doxing a private personal vehicle's location publicly is not free speech.
- dt3ft 4y ago
  Isn’t the data publicly available anyway?
  - shkkmo 4y ago
    The data isn't publicly available from the government because the plane is on the LADD list https://laddlist.com/aircraft/N628ts https://laddlist.com/aircraft/N628ts Thus the only public source is from the company ADSBExchange because it uses croudsourced data.
    - meepmorp 4y ago
      The data are broadcast from the plane itself, though, for the explicit purpose of allowing the plane's location to be known. That's definitely public data.
      - shkkmo 4y ago
        Your face, license plate, IP address, etc are all also "public data" in the same sense. When you have large scale aggregation and dissemination of this data that still can create grave privacy and safety concerns. I strongly believe that aggregation of many types of this sort of data should be made illegal by privacy laws. I am less sure if those laws should cover flight location data, but it seems like a discussion worth having. We need to weigh the privacy and safety loss against the transparency gains.
e_commerce 4y ago
Balgair 4y ago
Here's the ADSBExchange info for his jet, in case you still needed to know that: https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a835af https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a835af Currently on the ground in Texas after flying out of LA.
Blue111 4y ago
Took longer then I thought... just looked at this account yesterday or the day before.
itslennysfault 4y ago
Does anyone have contact info for the person that runs this? Is he gonna pick it back up on Mastodon or Reddit or his own domain? If it were me I would make it as multi-platform as possible just out of spite. Maybe even create a new twitter once a week and let them play wack-a-mole with it. edit... seems there is already a reddit (where you'd expect), but it is (apparently) tied to a crypto token. They have a .io domain (the one you expect) and it's just promoting crypto and has an iframe to https://opensky-network.org/aircraft-profile?icao24=a835af https://opensky-network.org/aircraft-profile?icao24=a835af to make it the "elonjet" coin. Man, people will attach crypto to anything.
rs_rs_rs_rs_rs 4y ago
"Private company, they can do whatever they want"
- electrondood 4y ago
  This position isn't the issue. It's pretending very publicly to care about one thing while consistently acting contrary to it. The "free speech" meme was always complete bullshit.
paxys 4y ago
Gonna be fun to see Elon fans apply their standard mental gymnastics and explain why this is actually “free speech absolutism”.
minusSeven 4y ago
Thinking of buying shorts on twitter now with all the dumb ass news going around...
- shkkmo 4y ago
  You can't buy shares or shorts of a company that is privately owned. The best you could do is find a prediction market and bet against specific metrics.
  - typon 4y ago
    The best you can do is find a correlated stock (Tesla) and short that instead. I think if Twitter goes bankrupt, you can expect Tesla to enter free-fall.
    - shkkmo 4y ago
      > I think if Twitter goes bankrupt, you can expect Tesla to enter free-fall. I think a drop in Tesla share price would be likely, but I don't see why it would hit freefall?
      - typon 4y ago
        Tesla's current share price is extremely inflated - the market has priced in Elon Musk's genius magic. If this genius magic turns out to be a total fraud, Tesla stock price should go down to levels reflecting the stock price of a similarly sized/revenue producing car company. To give you an idea: Tesla revenue: 74.86B Toyota revenue: 260.13B Tesla market cap: 498.56B Toyota market cap: 234.96B That's roughly a 7.4x difference in expectation vs. reality.
        shkkmo 4y ago
        I would hazard that some of that expectation is due to Tesla's potential for growth due to expected growth of the EV market. I also think that a lot of anti-Musk sentiment has already been priced in. While a Twitter bankruptcy would absolutely have some further impact on that sentiment, it doesn't seem immediately obvious that it would wipeout all of Musk's fanatical support. Given that, an immediate drop to 13% of Tesla's current value seems like a significant overestimate if Tesla keeps hitting sales and production targets. If Twitter bankruptcy accompanies a significant reduction in Tesla sales, I could see a drop of that size or larger, but not from a Twitter bankruptcy alone.
m3kw9 4y ago
Everyone here is pissed, but let’s see how it works out if there is an account tracking your own location.
- brovak 4y ago
  It's all public flight information. Anyone who has a private jet can be tracked like Elon.
  - shkkmo 4y ago
    It's only publicly available via a company that uses crowdsourced data. The plane is on the LADD list which prohibits official FAA information on the planes movements from being made publicly available.
    - nickthegreek 4y ago
      OP's point remains.
  - preordained 4y ago
    Should anyone have a trending Twitter account just for them parroting as much to the world? I know for a fact people in our industry have spirited meetings about PII grey areas and other hairy issues, it's jarring to me to see the same people commenting in crude black and white terms whenever an unpopular figure is involved.
    - nickthegreek 4y ago
      According to Elon Musk as recently as yesterday, yes they should be allowed to have an account to parrot info to the world. There are many other accounts whose sole existence is to report other jet data (See @celebjets). None of those accounts got banned.
- typon 4y ago
  Most people here aren't pissed about the content of the banned account, but the hypocrisy from a self-proclaimed free speech warrior. If he didn't claim to be one, this wouldn't be news or interesting whatsoever.
_JoRo 4y ago
I'm kind of curious what people are most upset about here? 1. They just don't like Elon? 2. They are upset that despite Elon claiming to be a "free speech absolutist" that he is now suspending accounts posting public information? (hypocrisy) 3. They are free speech absolutists themselves and object to this censorship? 4. Something else? Personally, depending on how often Elon is using this plane - I could see this as a form of doxxing (although not strictly). I think the publicity that the account has been receiving recently is probably why it got suspended. It will be interesting to see whether any other legal or social policy is created related to this issue.
- glonq 4y ago
  Yup. In Elon's defence (not that he needs or deserves it) -- if I had a bunch of armed and angry folks who wanted to see me dead, I wouldn't want their job made easier thanks to some doofus publicising my location in real-time.
  - nickthegreek 4y ago
    It is not his real time location. It is the location of 3 planes.
  - sudosysgen 4y ago
    It makes no difference. The location of any civilian aircraft in the air is legally required to be published.
    - _JoRo 4y ago
      And it still is. It's just not nearly as accessible or overtly obvious as it once was. I'm not sure if this would have happened if the account wasn't given extra attention in the media in recent weeks. Prior to an article 2 weeks ago, I never even knew that this information was publicly accessible, and now I know if I want to try to figure out where Musk, Gates, Zuckerberg, or other public figures might be, I can check out the author's website. Now the main site will probably even gain more visibility which will also expose other individuals personal jets. Like I said before, it will be interesting to see what impact this will have elsewhere.
rqtwteye 4y ago
I feel Musk is falling into the same trap most other social media celebrities with large followings fall into. At some point they get addicted to controversy and outrage as long as they get attention. He would be way better off if he cared more about his businesses and kept his mouth shut. The signs were already clear with all the nonsense he did during the Thai cave situation. He tried to suck up attention with his little submarine and then got mad when it turned out it was useless. Jordan Peterson is another example of this. He used to have some good insights but what I have heard from him lately sounds very authoritative and appeals to his followers but is pretty hollow.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
andrewclunn 4y ago
3 possibilities: 1) Elon is trying to position himself as being "pro free speech" in the same way Jack Dorsey did (it's just marketing, and not a truly held principle). 2) Somebody in the organization is making decisions that Elon will reverse in the next 24 hours to prove that they did not come from him. 3) Some specific threat has been made against Elon that has him now paranoid about his security to the extent that he's rethinking his principles when faced with his own mortality. The difference between 1 and 3 being whether he never had principles or is now giving them up. I'm guessing it's 3 because I've seen SO MANY public figures I once respected do the exact same thing once the danger of standing on principle became all too palpable.
electrondood 4y ago
I understand this move, but need to point out how hypocritical this is for Mr. Free Speech. Basically, his entire tenure so far has been "free speech for me and the accounts that were rightfully banned for violating the TOS!" in public, and then "we'll deboost anyone who doesn't pay me a subscription" and "let's selectively release internal comms in a misleading way to make normal company operation in good faith seem like a liberal conspiracy."
- bobleeswagger 4y ago
- 40four 4y ago
  I'm flabbergasted by the overwhelming response that this account should be allowed "in the name of Free Speech". This isn't a free speech issue. This is a personal safety issue. It is a personal attack towards Musk. As high profile as he is, and the amount of controversy surrounding him, he certainly has a target on his back. I consider that account a form of Doxxing, and I can't think of any good reason it should be allowed to exist. It feels like everyone is so upset with Elon, that we all want to play this game of "Gotcha" with every move he makes. Doesn't seem like anyone is considering that account is a real safety/ security issue for him.
  - kweingar 4y ago
    I honestly would not have cared about the account being banned, except for the fact that Musk won points for nobly saying he would not ban the account.
    - ncr100 4y ago
      The real concern is whether Musk will direct Terrorism to Jack Schwartz's doorstep, like he did with the former exec & the CP accusations.
  - encoderer 4y ago
    You’re “flabbergasted”? This is publicly available information. What exactly is the safety threat with this twitter acct?
auditor_3d 4y ago
I won't lie, I'd ban the hell out of that account to if I was him.
- enumjorge 4y ago
  Hopefully you wouldn’t market yourself as a free speech absolutist and make a big stink about censorship by the previous leadership, unlike Musk.
mberning 4y ago
Where are all the principled “it’s a private company” people now lol.
- detaro 4y ago
  “it’s a private company” is an argument about legality. Doesn't mean you can't criticize or make fun of a company or its Chief Twit for what it does.
  - drak0n1c 4y ago
    That argument was most commonly used in the past to dismiss criticisms of corporate social media policy, even when there was no mention of legality or government intervention.
    - cocacola1 4y ago
      Was it? I always saw "it's a private company" used when people were complaining about a particular social media policy contravening the first amendment and people pointing out that the first amendment doesn't apply to private companies.
  - ergocoder 4y ago
    Here is one of the people. Now it is just a legal matter. When banning trump, it is used as the main argument.
- bcrosby95 4y ago
  He's allowed to do whatever he wants with his private company. I'm also allowed to say "liar liar pants on fire" when he does things that goes against what he said he would do.
fzeroracer 4y ago
Not at all surprised to see people I argued with prior suddenly shift tact to instead argue that it's a privacy issue etc etc despite literally taking the free speech stance like a few weeks prior. As I've said and will keep saying Musk does not care about free speech. People are falling for the lies of a billionaire who has been caught in multiple objective lies before.
lxe 4y ago
Elon's free speech seems to be just as free as his full-self-driving cars are full-self-driving.
tibbydudeza 4y ago
So this "Ella Irwin" - Elon's hatchet woman :).
iamgopal 4y ago
I think with enough positive feedback loops, we can control elon to get done anything.
40four 4y ago
It's amazing to me the mental gymnastics one must have to do to defend the @ElonJet account, simply because you might not like Elon on a personal level. Of course that account should be suspended. Yeah I know, public information/ free speech, blah blah. But it is quite frankly a personal attack on Musk, and I consider it a form of Doxxing. As high profile as Musk is, something like that account is a real threat to his personal safety in my opinion. I don't see how anyone would think that's ethical or reasonable to allow to continue?
- 4512124672456 4y ago
  > As high profile as Musk is, something like that account is a real threat to his personal safety in my opinion. People who want to actually harm Elon Musk don't need that Twitter account to do so. I don't see how it is a threat to his personal safety, when this data is easily available elsewhere.
- jklinger410 4y ago
  My commitment to free speech extends even to not banning the account following my plane, even though that is a direct personal safety risk - @elonmusk 11/06/22
  - 40four 4y ago
    I honestly was unaware of the this tweet, and it's interesting he mentions he personal saftey. So now he changed his mind that his personal security is more important? Hardly outrageous to me. I don't wish for anyone to be less safe in the name of free speech.
- agluszak 4y ago
  I think it kinda gives food for thought that the only place where ElonJet was banned is his own platform.
ilrwbwrkhv 4y ago
Honestly Hacker News seems to be the last bastion of intelligent free speech. We must defend this space thusly.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ajmurmann 4y ago
Any discussion about free speech that doesn't address stochastic terrorism, the firehose of falsehood and the paradox of tolerance is meaningless. This action likely shows that Musk intuitively understands the dangers of stochastic terrorism for himself (this is really one of the mildest version imaginable), but doesn't understand or doesn't want to understand the abstract concept and that it should impact speech on his and other platforms or at least needs to be addressed in a mature way.
doener 4y ago
The account on Mastodon: https://mastodon.social/@elonjet https://mastodon.social/@elonjet
BoardsOfCanada 4y ago
The account seems to be up and running when I click the link. If anything this shows how badly people want to find anything to criticize Musk for. Accounts get flagged, give it half a day at least.
- ihuman 4y ago
  OP links to bot's creator's Twitter account, which hasn't been suspended. The @ElonJet account is still suspended. https://twitter.com/elonjet https://twitter.com/elonjet
- lame-robot-hoax 4y ago
  The linked tweet isn’t the suspended account, @ElonJet is. And of this moment, it’s still suspended.
rubyist5eva 4y ago
Stalking is not free speech.
alangibson 4y ago
I'm really embarrassed to have once been a Musk fanman (strictly as a space nerd). I know I shouldn't be, but I'm shocked at how much of a mendacious cretin he turned out to be. He, SBF, and many more like them are just a bunch of Chauncy Gardeners. People convince themselves that they're geniuses until one day the realization dawns that they've been dunces all along.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- gen220 4y ago
  Hey, at least Chauncy wasn't delusional about his true powers or self-aggrandizing in seeking more power! Still, it's a very apt reference these days, maybe all days. The narrative arc feels evergreen, in that the surreal irony feels like it would land (and be thoroughly entertaining!) in any era of human history.
- diego_sandoval 4y ago
  You can be really smart, even genius, and still make mistakes, or become corrupted by power and wealth. There isn't a dichotomy between genius and asshole. I still think Elon's contributions to society are much greater than his flaws. And his contributions don't come from being a "genius" (there are at least hundreds of thousands of geniuses on Earth) as much as from being extremely hardworking.
  - alangibson 4y ago
    I'm not drawing a dichotomy between genius and asshole, I'm saying that Musk has revealed himself to be quite a dumbass in reality. For instance, you have to be exceptionally dumb to pay $44B for a company worth $12B. I'm not saying he doesn't have some talents. But like SBF and Elizabeth Holmes, his superpower seems to be creating a reality distortion field, not economics, physics, or anything else that makes for a long-term success. There are a lot of anecdotal stories about teams at Tesla and SpaceX managing up to keep him from making terrible decisions all the time. I used to thing it just grousing, but now I'm not so sure.
thih9 4y ago
Aren’t we going to see copycats? Are they all going to be blocked? I feel like I’m missing something.
neuronexmachina 4y ago
(Flagged) HN thread from when the ElonJet account was allegedly shadowbanned a couple days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33957682 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33957682
overgard 4y ago
I'm not going to justify this action, I think he's in the wrong, but if the only speech he's suppressing is people making fun of him I don't care that much. Hypocrite, sure, but I'm more worried about the project Matt Taibbi lays out in pt 3 of the twitter files: > Before the Capitol riots, the company was engaged in an inherently insane/impossible project, trying to create an ever-expanding, ostensibly rational set of rules to regulate every conceivable speech situation that might arise between human beings. > This project was preposterous, yet its leaders were unable to see this, having become infected with the firm’s groupthink, coming to believe – sincerely – that it was their responsibility to control, as much as possible, what people could talk about, how often, and with whom. ^ THAT, is the kind of policy I'm worried about.
anshumankmr 4y ago
Someone posted a meme before Elon completed the purchase (or maybe shortly after) about how this account would be nuked from orbit. I thought something so transparently hypocritical would not happen but here we are.
Netisneverfree 4y ago
simple10 4y ago
I'm curious how they're internally spinning the justification. It doesn't seem to be a violation of Twitter's Automation Rules [1] but ostensibly could be a violation of their harassment rule [2]. It's a bit of a stretch. The litmus test will be if/when the internal comms get released as part of the Twitter Files. I won't hold my breath. [1] https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/twitter-automation https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/twitter-autom... [2] https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/twitter-rules https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/twitter-rules
- madeofpalk 4y ago
  > I'm curious how they're internally spinning the justification "Boss said to do it".
- meepmorp 4y ago
  The same guy has other twitter accounts that track other people's planes, and those are still active (or were when I checked an hour ago). Res ipsa loquitur.
- erlich 4y ago
  It's a pretty clear-cut policy violation: https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/personal-information https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/personal-info... > Our primary aim is to protect individuals from potential physical harm as a result of their information being shared, so we consider information such as physical location and phone numbers to be a higher risk than other types of information. > Under this policy, you can’t share the following types of private information, without the permission of the person who it belongs to....home address or physical location information So Elon essentially gave permission, and now he has revoked it. The difficulty those on the other-side of this argument have is that they themselves are not arguing that this shouldn't be the policy, and that this "doxing" behavior is not wrong. In fact, no one is. There is not a single person claiming free speech is being violated here. There is not any kind of movement or group that is campaigning for doxing of location information as a right. Essentially, people are saying: you are not allowing the things that no one thinks should be allowed anyway.
jdlyga 4y ago
Once a shining star on Twitter's skies, Elonjet's wings were clipped and it could no longer rise. Its tweets were a joy, tracking Musk's private jet, But now it's been silenced, its fate is set. Elon Musk now reigns supreme on the platform we love, But his control has come at a cost, with many pushed out. The fired workers are left to wonder and roam, While Musk's grip on the site only continues to grow. Oh Elonjet, how we'll miss your tweets and updates, Tracking Musk's travels with such keen insight. Your suspension is a sad moment, a loss to be sure, But your spirit lives on in the memories of those who adored. -Credit to ChatGPT
lisper 4y ago
Can someone please explain to me what/who is ElonJet and why I should care that he/she/it has been suspended?
- pigtailgirl 4y ago
  -- bot account that tweets location of Elons private jet --
  - lisper 4y ago
    Ah, thanks. In that case I don't understand what all the fuss is about. I am about as unsympathetic to Elon Musk as you can get, but it still seems reasonable to me to shut down what is essentially an automated doxxer.
UncleOxidant 4y ago
As an aside: I keep seeing claims on mastodon that any mention of mastodon on twitter gets flagged. Not having a twitter account I can't test that claim. Any twitter users up to try an experiment?
zagrebian 4y ago
I hope Last Week Tonight does a main story on Elon when it comes back.
jszymborski 4y ago
When the Elon/Twitter transaction went through, there were a lot of HN comments stating that they thought that this might actually mean a more open, "freer" Twitter. When I mentioned that Elon had already been using his power unilaterally to re-platform personal allies like Babylon Bee and Ye, I got all sorts of pedantry about the difference between suspension and banning, more pedantry about the Ye reactivation happening moments before the deal went through and some justifications about Babylon Bee not having done anything wrong, etc... I will reiterate here again. Musk will squeeze every bit of perceived power he may have out of Twitter by issuing personal favours like the petty, tin-pot tyrant that he is.
- xupybd 4y ago
  My hope was for a more transparent Twitter. I guess that's out the window too.
  - hn_go_brrrrr 4y ago
    I dunno, with all of the recent leaks, Twitters internal workings have all been made public. Sounds pretty transparent to me!
    - philjohn 4y ago
      Does it? It doesn't to me. It feels like they've deliberately hand picked things that would rile up the base - dropping that the Trump admin requested content removed, but not showing that, then including an image of links the Biden campaign wanted removing, leaving out the fact that every single one of those links was non consentual intimage imagery of a private citizen is the antithesis of transparency to me.
      - hn_go_brrrrr 4y ago
        Those are Twitter's official comms, not the leaks.
        4y ago
andreygrehov 4y ago
It is possible that Twitter recently removed the account as part of the last week's bot accounts clean-up process, rather than Elon personally shutting it down. It is highly likely Elon is not even aware that this specific account was suspended. Why is the general assumption that this was an intentional move? There were several occasions when HN algorithms flagged my comments/submissions and then someone from the HN team would reach out saying that this was a mistake and the result of a non-human intervention. Why is the same scenario not considered? We shall see, but honestly, I believe @ElonJet will be reactivated by the end of today.
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esalman 4y ago
Elon Musk is the Donald Trump of silicon valley. Sadly, Americans never learn.
LinuxBender 4y ago
Elon is probably multitasking too much to realize he could have left the account up and just traded-up the plane to a newer model and used a different company or legal entity to acquire the old plane. Form an LLC Elon's Musk... Surely he must have a wealthy friend that could buy the plane just to troll people with all the unusual places they could land. I think my first stop would be a private air-strip just outside Area 51. The FAA registration would eventually update but their paperwork is slow thus there would be some lag time.
nimbius 4y ago
at the risk of a downvote or three, this is a crackling log in the dumpster fire of twitter. major brands and advertisers jumped ship a month or two ago and very few have returned to see how elons checkmark 2.0, sink-dragging, maximum-hard-work "meet me on the tenth floor" late-on-the-rent leadership have panned out. by all accounts, if your brand is safely evacuated from twitter, @elonjet is proof you probably dodged a bullet or two and should get some recognition by EOY for your efforts.
- dimator 4y ago
  > major brands and advertisers jumped ship a month or two ago i've heard this before, is it backed by data? where is the data? anecdotally: active: https://nitter.snopyta.org/pepsi/status/1603075671881879556#m https://nitter.snopyta.org/pepsi/status/1603075671881879556#... https://nitter.snopyta.org/beatsbydre/status/1603091341713473538# https://nitter.snopyta.org/beatsbydre/status/160309134171347... https://nitter.snopyta.org/Ford/status/1603080041138733056#m https://nitter.snopyta.org/Ford/status/1603080041138733056#m https://nitter.snopyta.org/TOMFORD/status/1603084973451493378#m https://nitter.snopyta.org/TOMFORD/status/160308497345149337... https://nitter.snopyta.org/SNICKERS/status/1602665017769328640#m https://nitter.snopyta.org/SNICKERS/status/16026650177693286... https://nitter.snopyta.org/Oreo/status/1603042472866861068#m https://nitter.snopyta.org/Oreo/status/1603042472866861068#m https://nitter.snopyta.org/Disney/status/1602725046463696903#m https://nitter.snopyta.org/Disney/status/1602725046463696903... https://nitter.snopyta.org/Samsung/status/1602575534898089984#m https://nitter.snopyta.org/Samsung/status/160257553489808998... https://nitter.snopyta.org/ProcterGamble/status/1600922522295234561#m https://nitter.snopyta.org/ProcterGamble/status/160092252229... https://nitter.snopyta.org/AppleMusic/status/1602452836004028418#m https://nitter.snopyta.org/AppleMusic/status/160245283600402... https://nitter.snopyta.org/OppenheimerFilm/status/1603027027887390722#m https://nitter.snopyta.org/OppenheimerFilm/status/1603027027... inactive: https://nitter.snopyta.org/CocaCola https://nitter.snopyta.org/CocaCola https://nitter.snopyta.org/Charmin https://nitter.snopyta.org/Charmin or maybe I'm confusing "posting" with "spending on advertising"?
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GeckoEidechse 4y ago
Seems like there's a now an account for it on Mastodon https://mastodon.social/@elonjet https://mastodon.social/@elonjet
gxon 4y ago
These paper hands, they fold... > My commitment to free speech extends even to not banning the account following my plane, even though that is a direct personal safety risk. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456
zachur 4y ago
I actually think this is reasonable. The account was broadcasting his live location at any given point in time and there's a strong argument it presented a legitimate safety risk given so many people's hatred towards him. It's also hard to say he's banning free speech against himself when it feels like half of twitter is anti-Elon sentiment these days.
- TobyTheDog123 4y ago
  I have a feeling your comment is going to get a lot of pushback, but I agree with you. I'm reminded of the plotline from The Newsroom where Sloan Sabbith roasts the ACNgage developer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F86ojBeLbxQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F86ojBeLbxQ
- hengistbury 4y ago
  The account was re-broadcasting publicly available information. Anyone who wanted to harm Musk would easily be able to find this information themselves without the twitter account.
  - zachur 4y ago
    True, but the account significantly lowers the bar to finding that information, making it much more likely someone who wishes to do harm could act on it.
    - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
      Notably, he hasn't blocked other accounts which do the same thing so it's only as rational as it is self serving.
    - djur 4y ago
      Seems to me that a lot of the people Elon has targeted with the so-called "Twitter Files" would say they were making the same type of situational harm-reducing judgment call.
- jandem 4y ago
toofy 4y ago
what makes this so concerning is, elon clearly understands that posts can amplify danger—even if the posted data is public information already, and there aren’t any clear threats, he understands this when it’s about him. if it even slightly puts him in danger, he takes steps at mitigation. when it’s other people, and the situation is even more dangerous, it almost seems like he revels in the danger those people or groups are put in. even more concerning to me, when those groups ask for mitigation efforts, he goes out of his way to make their concerns appear unreasonable or hysterical. again, even when those threats are more immediate/widespread. this is not something to be brushed away, this has very real implications.
whatinthenote 4y ago
As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last lose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constricting its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master. - Commissioner Pravin Lal, "U.N. Declaration of Rights" From Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri
akiselev 4y ago
Free speech for me but not for thee. Anyone with an ounce of sense saw this coming. This is public flight data reposted to a public channel. Musk now owns one of the biggest platforms on the internet so I’d argue that not only is the information already public but now in the public interest.
yakubin 4y ago
A bit of a tangent: where does the knowledge about which jet is Musk's (in this case N628TS) come from? Are ownership records of jets public information? Isn't that a privacy issue? Imagine if that was the case for cars. It's pretty much a given that governments can track both, but just a random person being able to do that is even worse IMO.
- altgoogler 4y ago
  Almost all aircraft are equipped with ADS-B transponders, which transmit their tail number and location continuously. Anybody can buy a ADS-B receiver and see info for aircraft flying near them. In good internet fashion, people figured out that they can coordinate large networks of receivers, which basically centralizes a nationwide database of all aircraft movement. So, all this account did was tweet when Elon's jet moved from this central ADS-B database.
  - yakubin 4y ago
    That’s not what I’m asking though. I’m asking how they know which jet is Musk’s.
heywherelogingo 4y ago
Opinions and stalking aren't the same thing.
gaoshan 4y ago
The way he behaves is so similar to other super powerful people who know they will not be held accountable. In China Xi Jinping has been carrying out a long running "anti-corruption" campaign and while he does indeed crack down on corruption it also tends to be mostly people that oppose him that get cracked down upon. Elon is doing something similar here by using his power to crack down on someone that "opposes" him while leaving others, conveniently aligned with his interests, untouched. I'm sure we can find examples of this sort of utilitarian hypocrisy everywhere... it highlights the benefits of effective checks and balances on power.
irae 4y ago
My guess to why he banned it now is that before he was more moderate against woke or left in general. Now that he is more openly and harshly targeting woke and Fauci, it becomes a bit more hazardous to have it up. But this looks bad. He should have stated publicly why before banning it.
AntoniusBlock 4y ago
All he originally had to do was to ignore the account. Him offering to buy it, or even him showing that the account perturbed him, exposed his insecurities and only added more eyeballs to the issue.
- leobg 4y ago
  That’s one interpretation. The other is that personally reaching out to the creator, sharing his concerns and showing respect for the time investment was a kind, honest thing to do. (And that for the creator to refuse, not because he didn’t want to sell, but because he hoped to get more money out of Elon, not because of any worthwhile contribution of him, or because it was his data, but simply to take advantage of the concerns Elon shared with him, was dickish.)
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Slighted 4y ago
Considering the fact that most people here don't consider doxing to be freedom of speech, I don't see what the problem is with this account being banned (Assuming of course that Musk himself actually banned it and it wasn't removed by another staff member or by algorithmic defenses). "Its open source data!" So are the (perfectly legal) doxes on Kiwifarms, yet that's one of the largest reasons its vilified. Additionally, I doubt most people here would be okay with another person very closely watching your movements including this kid if Musk decided to beat him at his own game by setting up cameras around his house (Funny what you can do with enormous amounts of money). Musk is still human whether you like billionaires or not. You'd think that a place like this would be more privacy-oriented and wouldn't be okay with any kinds of telemetry period, or at the very least would want it handled more carefully (Plane data handled by in-house FAA units rather that broadcasted to the web for anyone and everyone to see).
- Eisenstein 4y ago
  The issue isn't with censoring, the issue is censoring after crying about censorship.
- someNameIG 4y ago
  Many people don't consider some forms of hate speech and indirect threats of violence free speech either.
iancmceachern 4y ago
Free speech absolutism right here. Wait...
deleted 4y ago
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memish 4y ago
Which is most likely? A) Elon banned the account, reneging on his previous statement, "My commitment to free speech extends even to not banning the account following my plane, even though that is a direct personal safety risk" B) It was erroneously banned by someone else or an automated bot net process without Elon's knowledge and will be overturned when he's made aware of it C) It was banned for another reason we don't know about yet D) Other
- janalsncm 4y ago
  If the account was from a nobody then I would say B, but since Musk has already offered to pay to have the account closed I would say A.
- leobg 4y ago
  Oh you brought critical thinking to the topic. That’s generally welcome on HN. But those stories about Musk have an inevitable headline: “Another angle from which to justify your resentment of Elon Musk, including the opportunity to prove that you are a better than him, of not in achievement then in moral standards”. That’s why your comment, which demonstrates knowledge of the circumstances and asks the obvious questions, ranks 1/3 of the page down.
w0mbat 4y ago
It's a stalker account, of course it was banned. I would hope Twitter would ban a similar account stalking Taylor Swift for example.
agilob 4y ago
Can Twitter be actually trusted and profitable in a few months?
outside1234 4y ago
Now available on Mastodon: https://hachyderm.io/@elonjet@mastodon.social https://hachyderm.io/@elonjet@mastodon.social
- runarberg 4y ago
  Original server here: https://mastodon.social/@JxckS/109513788818540405 https://mastodon.social/@JxckS/109513788818540405 Authenticity has been confirmed with an update on the personal site: https://grndcntrl.net/links/ https://grndcntrl.net/links/
anigbrowl 4y ago
This is certainly a contentious debate that's more of a flamewar than a discussion, but I do not appreciate the HN approach of simply 'disappearing' threads without warning and the resultant waste of time in trying to figure out where they went. Ironically, still easily accessible via the 'best' list: https://news.ycombinator.com/best https://news.ycombinator.com/best Dang, you can skip the anodyne PR statement.
selimhex 4y ago
Jack's twitter is now also suspended. https://twitter.com/JxckSweeney https://twitter.com/JxckSweeney
LightG 4y ago
What a f@cking coward...
masukomi 4y ago
ElonJet has, unsurprisingly, set up an account on Mastodon: https://mastodon.social/@elonjet https://mastodon.social/@elonjet
rbancroft 4y ago
@JxckSweeney, @RUOligarchJets and @spacexjet also just got suspended.
DantesKite 4y ago
It seems like the location of Elon's jet isn't actually public information and requires some sleuthing to figure out. Changes my opinion completely if true. "Elon uses the FAA PIA privacy program for a private plane ID. When using a PIA address, the owner is anon and private, not public. Sweeney’s workaround is (likely) to spot a (rare) ICAO plane resembling Musk’s & noting the private code." https://twitter.com/scottwww/status/1490553502640140288?s=20&t=JuKbcaiZL786Dk9z1txSWg https://twitter.com/scottwww/status/1490553502640140288?s=20...
jjwiseman 4y ago
The jxcksweeney personal account[0] is now suspended, along with the Russian oligarch tracking account[1], the NASA aircraft tracking account(!)[2], @GatesJets, @ZuccJet, and @USAirForceVIP. 0. https://twitter.com/jxcksweeney https://twitter.com/jxcksweeney 1. https://twitter.com/RUOligarchJets https://twitter.com/RUOligarchJets 2. https://twitter.com/NASAPlanes https://twitter.com/NASAPlanes
- dyno12345 4y ago
  they're also blocking linking to the instagram and facebook accounts (but it currently still works if you add a random query string to the url) https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/1603124548903247872 https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/16031245489032478... also, the journalist reporting this is now filtered from search
jjwiseman 4y ago
Twitter has now suspended his personal account, the NASA aircraft tracking account, the Russian oligarch tracking account, the Bill Gates jets tracker, the Zuckerberg jet tracker, and more.
hzhou321 4y ago
Some billionaires grow integrity at some point since every thing else is just money. Some billionaires never.
wnevets 4y ago
The mastodon https://mastodon.social/@elonjet https://mastodon.social/@elonjet alternative.
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[deleted]
runarberg 4y ago
Here is the statement on mastadon: https://mastodon.social/@JxckS/109513788818540405 https://mastodon.social/@JxckS/109513788818540405
clouddrover 4y ago
Now on Mastodon: https://mastodon.social/@elonjet https://mastodon.social/@elonjet And other places: https://grndcntrl.net/links/ https://grndcntrl.net/links/
schappim 4y ago
Why is this already off the front page after only a few hours, and 1321 points. Are Twitter links automagically weighted down?
kiawe_fire 4y ago
So many comments here and I’m still struggling to see why this is so noteworthy.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
cyounkins 4y ago
Musk tweeted in apparent reference to this: "Any account doxxing real-time location info of anyone will be suspended, as it is a physical safety violation. This includes posting links to sites with real-time location info. Posting locations someone traveled to on a slightly delayed basis isn’t a safety problem, so is ok." https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1603181423787380737 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1603181423787380737
sinoue 4y ago
Absolute power absolutely corrupts. - Lord Acton

1417 points by ffsoftboiled 4y ago

There are so many smart, influencial people on HN. Time to get off Twitter. I quit after 14 years of daily use. Make your voice (not) heard.

throw_a_grenade 4y ago

dupe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33981691 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33981691

selectodude 4y ago

“My commitment to free speech extends even to not banning the account following my plane, even though that is a direct personal safety risk” Elon Musk, 2022-11-06

aidenn0 4y ago
Did he really say that?
- _jal 4y ago
  https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456 If you didn't already, now you know what his commitment is worth.
- awb 4y ago
  Yes: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456

alarmingfox 4y ago

Well it seems like Elon is reneging on his previous commitment to free speech. - https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456

Finnucane 4y ago
His commitment to free speech extends to what he personally approves.
mannykannot 4y ago
His commitment to his free speech is unwavering.
- WJW 4y ago
  Unwaveringly low?
  - awb 4y ago
    His commitment to his free speech is unwavering
    - Jaepa 4y ago
      Hey its not just his free speech – its also the free speech of those who agree with him, or is politically aligned with him.
      - emodendroket 4y ago
        Note: subject to change
  - yieldcrv 4y ago
    He is using the concept of legal free speech correctly while memeing about a philosophical free speech that matches the colloquialism that many of his sycophants and observers think Legal free speech has only to do with retribution via criminal liability from government organizations, alongside freedom to disassociate from speech and expression that you don't like Twitter is not a government organization and is also not capable of levying criminal charges against anyone, and is free to disassociate from speech and expression it doesn't like thanks to the 1st amendment. Yes, this is the same capability as anyone else and the same possibility as Twitter operated before, aside from different choices of who its leadership chooses to dis/associate with. It is an accurate commitment to free speech.

DHPersonal 4y ago

I think Elon has given up any pretense of being open to criticism, so an action like this seemed fairly inevitable.

seanw444 4y ago
Yeah, I don't know why anyone thought Twitter would be a "bastion" of free speech. His history proves otherwise.
- ancapsfascists 4y ago
  Hacker News fell for it, hook line and sinker. The number of people saying "give him a chance" and "he actually believes in free speech" dominated those who were like, "he'll probably just change who gets banned to be more in line with his personal beliefs."
  - jjulius 4y ago
    >Hacker News fell for it, hook line and sinker. Were we reading the same threads? I've seen countless people on HN predicting exactly this sorta thing happening, even myself.
    - Larrikin 4y ago
      My experience in threads about Elon and his companies, is there is a large number of people who are complete and absolute fanboys in the comments, that also heavily overlaps with a large group of people who have invested in tech stocks trying to get a return on their money. Any criticism I've ever said of Tesla or Elon usually initially gets up votes and then half a day or even a few days later receives a lot of down votes. I always assumed it was people invested in his stocks doing it on their own, but his antics on Twitter show he's the kind of person that might actually employ people to down vote people critical of him and his companies.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

Overtonwindow 4y ago

Just an observation, but it seems that the Twitter files revelations are getting drastically less press than everything else Elon does. It almost feels like kill the messenger

SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
Maybe because there's not really anything of much interest there? Do people get bored with these vacuous "revelations" and fake controversies?
eightysixfour 4y ago
I have read the “revelations” and… they weren’t that interesting to be honest. Pretty much what I expected.
- fullshark 4y ago
  Only maybe cause you work in tech (i assume). A lot of people don't know how these content moderation decisions go down. A mix of public rules, subjective parsing of their language, and external pressure. The last one being the one naive people might not really know about. I think it should be more open and less subjective frankly, especially if the external pressure comes from a government official, which means it should be interpreted in many cases as a threat. Edit: I think this is kind of the "smoking gun" of the files (8-12): https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1598827602403160064 https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1598827602403160064 Basically if you give outside actors direct lines to make grievances on content on your platform, you give them special powers to censor content, at the very least boosting the spam/toxic classifiers for stuff they object to. People were not aware of this mechanism.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  They seem to be pretty much what everyone expected. The question is whether that's alarming to you or is it a "nothingburger."
- SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
  You were aware that Twitter was in direct contact with Democrat politicians and campaigns to censor opponents? It was news to me that they were have weekly meetings with FBI and Intelligence communities where the topic was directly about conservatives in government, I guess I was out of the loop on those.

ndsipa_pomu 4y ago

Looks like he's sprinting towards the endgame of bankruptcy: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/13/technology/elon-musk-twitter-shakeup.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/13/technology/elon-musk-twit...

DoesntMatter22 4y ago
Definitely not going bankrupt though people would be happy to see it. Advertisers have come back and the staff is muuuuch smaller than before.
- throwaway4736 4y ago
  - DoesntMatter22 4y ago
    Just google Apple and other advertisers coming back. Don't be hater/loser.
- watwut 4y ago
  A lot of that staff he got rid of were exactly people necessary to run large ads sales operation.
- rideontime 4y ago
  Judging by the quality of ads that are being presented on twitter these days (when I see any at all), this is very obviously not true, no matter how much Elon claims otherwise.
  - BobbyJo 4y ago
    Have to agree with this. The ads I see now are for the kind of things temporary mall kiosks sell. Hard to believe they are raking in ad dollars from those.
- makestuff 4y ago

suyash 4y ago

I would report all the other accounts as they can present a security threat. This should be private information in the first place.

llacb47 4y ago
The FAA requires that most planes transmit ADSB-out. ADSBexchange aggregrates those transmitted signals and displays them online.
hidelooktropic 4y ago
It's already public. It's just ported over to Twitter.
- suyash 4y ago
  it should not be linked to VIPs and tracked like this, it's almost as creepy as stalking what this guy did. reported all his accounts.
  - esarbe 4y ago
    > it should not be linked to VIPs and tracked like this Why not?
    - suyash 4y ago
      It's like saying why don't I spy on you wherever you go, almost like the creepy stalker in Hollywood who terrorizes celebrities and don't respect privacy.
      - polygamous_bat 4y ago
        Private jets don't get privacy by FAA rules. If anybody has an issue with that, they can either take it up with FAA or stop using a private jet. Banning an account on Twitter isn't doing anything.

Workaccount2 4y ago

I think Elon is/was trying to bring back the "glory days" of the internet where free speech was the driving force behind tons of early internet projects. Seemingly everyone was onboard with the internet being humanities bastion of free speech and that had to be protected at all costs. Then the wild west internet was developed into a city and well, you just can't walk around shooting your gun wherever you want anymore. And changing the law to let people do that isn't going to bring back the wild west, and is more likely to just cause a bunch of chaos.

FourHand451 4y ago
How exactly is he working toward free speech being a driving force? From what I can tell, he's just banning different people.
- Workaccount2 4y ago
  He's not, he was idealizing it. His rhetoric about free speech harkens back to the early/mid internet days. The internet today is not what it was 20 years ago when you could run a platform where rule #1 was "Free speech is absolute and guaranteed", and could actually fulfill that promise without consequence.
  - Cthulhu_ 4y ago
    20 years ago free speech was still limited by the laws - if you have a site or if you host a site that does something illegal, it'll be taken down. 20 years ago and today. Consequences haven't changed, and I feel like you're glorifying the internet from 20 years ago as some ultimate free place.
    - ethbr0 4y ago
      Really? Because the pre-9/11 Internet I remember had The Anarchist Cookbook et al. widely available, didn't have IP-related domain seizures or OS/browser-based safelists, and had Usenet and IRC instead of Facebook. It seems accurate to say we've regressed in terms of free speech absolutism.

OrvalWintermute 4y ago

I support free speech and consider myself a libertarian, having much in common with the populist-libertarian-right, and the civil-liberties-left. But tracking a flight like this on a regular basis to this intrusive a level strikes me as downright creepy and personally invasive. Are you going to track the locations of his vehicles and where they park next? An alternative argument - if we're going to do it to him, maybe we should do the same to everyone (which is crazy because no one cares that much about random plane movements from rich guys unless they are politically connected, or green hypocrites, or involved in some crime, but Law Enforcement protects this data etc)

BlargMcLarg 4y ago
>unless they are politically connected You might as well say 'everyone'. Anyone rich enough to use, let alone own, a private jet is almost by default politically connected.
yanderekko 4y ago
>But tracking a flight like this on a regular basis to this intrusive a level strikes me as downright creepy and personally invasive. Yeah, people are saying "it's public info about a public figure", but I'm pretty sure that we could imagine all sorts of creepy-yet-legal digital gang-stalking that one can do, similar to how doxxing is legal but nearly-universally frowned upon. Not to say that the account should have been banned, but I don't see this as just harmless fun like others seem to.
- Cthulhu_ 4y ago
  Sometimes I feel like these public figures should be tracked even more - like who has been on Epstein's flight / island and should get a hard drive check. In theory the various intelligence services and the FAA have this information, but it's not acted on.
- fundad 4y ago
  He took the company private to promote his politics. There have been lies about free speech for as long as there has been speech. Can we stop clutching our pearls over this reactionary being, gasp, dishonest?

Zigurd 4y ago

Where else can N628TS be tracked? It looks like some of the most widely used flight trackers do not provide this data.

jamestanderson 4y ago
https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a835af https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a835af
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Cthulhu_ 4y ago
I read it's because the FAA has a list of flights that cannot be displayed on sites like that, called LADD: https://www.faa.gov/pilots/ladd https://www.faa.gov/pilots/ladd > The Administrator shall, upon request of a private aircraft owner or operator, block the registration number of the aircraft from any public dissemination or display, except in data made available to a Government agency, for the noncommercial flights of the owner or operator.
- shkkmo 4y ago
  This site seems to confirm that the plane is indeed on the LADD list https://laddlist.com/aircraft/N628ts https://laddlist.com/aircraft/N628ts Thus the only public source is ADSBExchange because it uses croudsourced data. Imagine that people put crowdsourced license place readers on their private property and then through a made an aggregate of this data on the public movements over every car available (and charged commercial users.) That would be quite problematic for personal privacy. ADSBExchange isn't quite the same as that since airplane movement is less granular and thus less privacy is lost. Also, the people who use private jets tend to be rich and powerful, so there's an aspect of "punching up" here that is not present in the crowdsourced car movement analogy. Still, I don't think the privacy considerations here are as cut and dry as the people who are claiming "it's public data, what's the problem?" are making it out to be.

_jal 4y ago

Looks to me like Twitter is financially doomed, and he's doing some combination of messing around with a broken toy and courting favor with like-minded people on the way to bankruptcy.

mbgerring 4y ago

Aside from watching many accounts critical of Elon get banned or suspended, it’s been entertaining to occasionally look at Twitter’s front page logged out, because: 1) If you have no cookies, Twitter constantly recommends that you follow Elon Musk 2) “Elon Musk” appears to be permanently set as a trending topic for logged-out users

Tenoke 4y ago
1. Checking from a small second account I get different people but not him in Who to Follow. 2. I just checked in incognito and he's currently not trending for me(from Germany).
Cthulhu_ 4y ago
I believe #1 can be explained by him already being (and having been, pre-acquisition) one of the top followed accounts on Twitter, same as Trump during his days.

michaelbuckbee 4y ago

A lot of hypocrisy from Elon here, but I'm at least somewhat sympathetic to taking down these accounts that are tracking people as it's so close to a Doxing or could lead to something bad happening. A few years ago, we were all mad at Uber for their "God View" which tracked celebrity locations -> https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-38314832 https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-38314832

abraxas 4y ago
Yeah, meanwhile a guy who has millions of followers and keeps spewing conspiracy nonsense about stolen elections is allowed back in because of course nothing bad could ever happen out of inciting that.
- GameOfFrowns 4y ago
  - Cthulhu_ 4y ago
    How often has she mentioned the elections were stolen again?
    - GameOfFrowns 4y ago
      >How often has she mentioned the elections were stolen again? Often enough[0] (it's questionable if the Mueller probe would have even happened without Clinton & Democratic Party clamoring for it) and the last time just a month ago: "Hillary Clinton: Right-Wingers Plot To 'LITERALLY STEAL' The Election In 2024"[1] [0] https://eu.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022/10/10/2016-election-fact-check-democrats-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders/69548196007/ https://eu.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022... [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsQAFpe8mEU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsQAFpe8mEU
ProAm 4y ago
This is publicly available information. It's nothing close to doxing.

niuzeta 4y ago

Is anyone really surprised at this?

drooby 4y ago

Twitters relevant policy: “Private information: You may not publish or post other people's private information (such as home phone number and address) without their express authorization and permission. We also prohibit threatening to expose private information or incentivizing others to do so. Learn more.” Now.. his fight information is technically “public” but in that same sense, phone numbers and street addresses are also “public”. Thus, a suspension to the flight tracking account seems in alignment with Twitter policy. Elon claimed he would not “ban” the account. And he has not done so. They were suspended. Okay edit lol: I _actually_ didn't know that "Suspended" is the equivalent to "Permanently Suspended" aka"Banned" on twitter. Shocking, I know. I walk back my second statement.

MisterBastahrd 4y ago
Are you unaware that when an account is banned on twitter, it is "permanently suspended?" Seriously, I'm trying to be charitable here.
ptato 4y ago
> Elon claimed he would not “ban” the account. And he has not done so. They were suspended. So the argument is that the word he used is different?
- drooby 4y ago
  The words are different because the actions are different.. Ban does not equal suspend. But ehh.. to be fair. It looks like Twitter still does do permanent suspensions… idk how this is different than a ban. So, if this is a “permanent suspension”.. then sure, it’s essentially the same thing and I would concede my point… but we don’t know.
Cthulhu_ 4y ago
> Elon claimed he would not “ban” the account. And he has not done so. They were suspended. That's just nitpicking. the ElonJet account didn't "violate Musk's privacy", it just "republished tracker information".

ancapsfascists 4y ago

Good to see I'm vindicated in the prediction that Musk has zero interest in free speech, he only has interest in his narrative being dominant on Twitter.

Cthulhu_ 4y ago
His narrative being petty things like "my pronouns are impeach/Fauci", since that's definitely something to spend $44B for.
- polygamous_bat 4y ago
  I believe that is only the tip of the iceberg, given anti-vax narrative and transphobia is endlessly repeated by those on the far/alt-right. I see the "Prosecute/Fauci" tweet as a signal towards his intended audience for what kind of place he wants Twitter to be.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
    > I see the "Prosecute/Fauci" tweet as a signal Indeed. I saw it described as "he's raised the Batshit signal"
  - minimaxir 4y ago
    It's more that Elon wants positive feedback and there's one only audience that will give it to him at this point.
    - philosopher1234 4y ago
      The way he runs his companies is "do a good job or else ill come in and do your job badly". Hes doing this with the world now. "Find a way to like me or ill fuck you up"
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kolanos 4y ago

Didn't ElonJet offer to shut down for a Model 3?

jaysinn_420 4y ago
No, Musk offered $5k and the response was maybe @elonjet would shut it down for a model 3.

beaned 4y ago

A lot of very weird vote brigading happening in this thread.

zarathustreal 4y ago
Get on in here, the echo's fine!
ClearAsIce 4y ago
HackerNews is NOT turning into Reddit (saying such a thing breaks the site guidelines). However I think it's OK to say that any topic about Elon Musk on HackerNews always descends into cringe / misinformation / le spaceship man bad / populism / repetitive memes; all fed by people who apparently source their news from /r/politics and r/whitepeopletwitter on Reddit and Business Insider bottom-tier clickbait media.
stouset 4y ago
It's not weird at all. Posts pushing baseless and debunked conspiracy theories[1] are getting downvoted into oblivion. Posts with highly questionable takes[2, 3] are also seeing the same. Even perspectives that tend to agree with the general HN consensus but are overly antagonistic[4] are receiving this treatment. The system is working as intended. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33986398 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33986398 [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33985551 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33985551 [3]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33985732 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33985732 [4]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33985784 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33985784

saboot 4y ago

It's pretty clear Elon wants everyone that has insulted or crossed him or otherwise proven him wrong to suffer some consequence to alleviate his bruised ego. Fauci, ElonJet, and more Think I'm wrong? Let's see if he'll go after Jack Dorsey in the future for recently correcting him on going after CSAM.

WhackyIdeas 4y ago
Didn’t Jack Dorsey invest a billion dollars of his Twitter shares in Elon Musk’s takeover?… Hard to imagine him going after him. But then again, Elon is hell-bent on alienating everyone. I was planning on selling our Land Rover and getting a Tesla but I changed my mind because a lot of people will associate me with the guy or think I agree with him. Still.. amazing cars.
- prottog 4y ago
  > Still.. amazing cars. Are they really that nice? I've been in a few but never owned one. I hear a lot about fit and finish issues unbefitting a car of that price range. What does a Model S get you that an S-class doesn't, or a Model 3 against, I don't know, an Audi A4? Is it just all about that electric drivetrain? I don't yet have a strong preference on electric vs. ICE, but I would gladly pay more to have a car without the "slap an iPad in the middle for every UX" design of the Tesla.
  - Bhilai 4y ago
    Indeed, at this point, if I had the money (or was in the market for an EV) I would buy a Mercedes EQS (or Porche Taycan) instead of Tesla model S or a of BMW i4 instead of a Model3.
    - lisper 4y ago
      My wife has a BMW 330e PHEV. We both love it. We've had it for almost a year and filled the tank twice.

perihelions 4y ago

He's also posted internal Twitter screenshots, allegedly showing a VP was personally involved in @ElonJet moderation. (In the context of an earlier moderation action -- visibility filtering ("VF")). - "A screenshot of what he claimed was an internal Slack channel showed Ella Irwin, the person appointed to replace Yoel Roth as Twitter’s new head of trust and safety, asking a “Team” to “please apply heavy VF to @elonjet immediately." https://www.thedailybeast.com/twitter-account-following-elon-musks-private-jet-gets-shadow-banned https://www.thedailybeast.com/twitter-account-following-elon... ("Twitter Account Tracking Elon Musk’s Private Jet Gets Shadow Banned") https://twitter.com/JxckSweeney/status/1601793881355739143 https://twitter.com/JxckSweeney/status/1601793881355739143

minimaxir 4y ago
It's worth noting that Twitter dissolved the Trust and Safety Council after that tweet was posted: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/twitter-disbands-trust-safety-council-rcna61400 https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/twitter-disbands-trus... It's unclear if Ella Irwin still works at Twitter, but giving everything going on I strongly suspect there's no one to moderate against Elon personally banning an account he does not like.
- stefan_ 4y ago
  She just got the role, why would she no longer work there? Presumably she was put there to enable this, after Yoel Roth abruptly left (and was subsequently defamed as a pedo by Elon, what's with the guy and pedophiles).
  - chris11 4y ago
    She started in June, she then quit shortly after Elon took over, then she was convinced to come back.
  - f38zf5vdt 4y ago

NelsonMinar 4y ago

ElonJet has a website with links to still available versions of the data here: https://grndcntrl.net/links/ https://grndcntrl.net/links/

zarathustreal 4y ago
Why?

sbochins 4y ago

I always feel dirty following the latest Twitter news. It feels like reading the tabloids at this point. But anyway, is there anyone that still buys the free speech angle from Musk? So far, he has just brought back some right wing accounts, removed some left wing accounts, and took on personal vendettas, like this. I think Twitter may actually end up making more money in the future. Musk seems to be able to market his companies very effectively. I’m assuming there is significantly more interest in the going ons at Twitter since he took over.

gfodor 4y ago

Dozing a person’s whereabouts isn’t free speech - yes I know you can fish this information out but it’s obvious this is intended to make it easy to figure out where he is. I’m amazed at the replies to this thread arguing this is a speech issue, especially considering the obvious need for heightened security due to what I’d imagine is a flood of death threats.

kevinmchugh 4y ago
Death threats are not covered by free speech, but the location of a jet is not a death threat. I don't think you'll find any legal precedent that says doxing isn't protected speech. Doxing is a bit of forum etiquette and is not considered taboo under other norms. It's also incorrect to say the jet's location tells you where Elon is. I have a friend who's ridden that jet. My friend isn't Elon, but worked for him
- hunterb123 4y ago
  What about stalking??
  - kevinmchugh 4y ago
    Stalking is not speech
acdha 4y ago
“fish this information out” makes it sound like it's hard to use any of the common websites which do the same thing. If the goal is security, he either needs to stop flying a personal jet or accept the cost of having adequate physical security where he does. Anyone who was incapable of looking up the jet's location without Twitter is unlikely to be competent enough to pose more risk than they would, say, staking out one of the buildings he frequents.
- gfodor 4y ago
  Pull vs push. The model where a person’s jet is posted on Twitter is one where the information can go viral and get pushed to everyone. It is a hugely different situation in terms of distribution and expected impressions.

adamsb6 4y ago

I think it's likely that this was reported and actioned without looping in Elon, and it will end up getting undone when raised to Elon.

rrmm 4y ago

Surely, this will be addressed in the next installment of the "Twitter Files". /s

ismepornnahi 4y ago
Part 69
yosefk 4y ago
I feel like the really interesting part of "The Twitter Files" isn't the arbitrary moderation decisions made (we sort of knew what they were thru their implementation and it's hard for moderation to be "not arbitrary" whether you agree with the decisions or not) but the involvement of US government representatives in it. I'm neither a lawyer nor an American but AFAIK according to past SCOTUS rulings, it is illegal for the government to "outsource censorship" to private parties in order to silence speech protected by 1A. A relative of DNC's Podesta or an FBI lawyer working for Twitter add to the impression more than the legal argument I guess. I think from the legal POV, an @ElonJet suspension backstory wouldn't be as interesting as the other installment of "The Twitter Files."
- AlexandrB 4y ago
  > I feel like the really interesting part of "The Twitter Files" isn't the arbitrary moderation decisions made (we sort of knew what they were thru their implementation and it's hard for moderation to be "not arbitrary" whether you agree with the decisions or not) but the involvement of US government representatives in it. I haven't followed parts 2 & 3 of the Twitter files. But the irony here is that the government officials involved in part 1 were the Trump administration. Biden was not yet elected and should be considered a private citizen.
  - Jiro 4y ago
    This is one of the ways in which the deep state matters. "The Trump Administration" can be opposed to actual-Trump.

mathlover2 4y ago

Big. Freaking. Surprise. I really hope the account is able to find a home elsewhere. EDIT: He has a Facebook page and a website. I am definitely going to be using the latter.

zarathustreal 4y ago
...? What exactly do you plan on using it for?
- kcplate 4y ago
  Shame this comment is getting downvoted, it is absolutely the right question people should be asking.
- boopboopbadoop 4y ago
  For spite.

jchw 4y ago

On one hand: Elon Musk has clearly directly been involved in having accounts suspended in the past, because it happened when he got upset about parody accounts making fun of him. On the other hand: there's no particular information here yet, regarding the reason why the account was banned, nor does anyone know if Elon Musk actually had anything directly to do with it. Elon Musk has a ton of fanboys who would probably continue to report and brigade such an account, so I wouldn't be surprised if that's what happened here.

zarathustreal 4y ago
Shhhhh.. Stop trying to be reasonable. Embrace the outrage. Remember, if you and everyone around you all say the same thing it becomes true and everyone everywhere believes it
- devnullbrain 4y ago
  >Shhhhh.. Stop trying to be reasonable This is a thought-terminating cliche. Inventing a person to pwn instead of pushing your argument directly. It hasn't added anything to the discussion that there isn't already a dedicated button for.
jchw 4y ago
I'm surprised this struck so much of a nerve here (based on votes and the reply.) Disappointed, but I'm not going to take it personally; if you're reading this and it's somehow pissing you off, I strongly suggest spending some time away from the computer.
- meepmorp 4y ago
  > if you're reading this and it's somehow pissing you off, I strongly suggest spending some time away from the computer. I upvoted your first comment because it was a decent and reasonable one. I downvoted this one because your passive aggressive swat at people who disagree with you is bullshit. If you were actually not taking it personally, you wouldn't have mentioned it at all.

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outside1234 4y ago

Just log off from Twitter. Every minute you don't spend on Twitter is another minute we will be closer to Elon having to eat $44B and probably take a horrific haircut on Tesla.

unnouinceput 4y ago
[Me not ever having a Twitter account]: I'm doing my part!
shmageggy 4y ago
Delete your account. I did. I took stock of how much value it provided me, decided it was not much and declining, and not enough to offset supporting a billionaire megalomaniac large-scale boosting far right bullshit.
- outside1234 4y ago
  The only gotcha with this approach is that someone can take your handle and then impersonate you - but yes, otherwise, agree.
electrondood 4y ago

code_lettuce 4y ago

Anyone who is ${surprised_pikachu.gif} by this hasn't been paying attention.

danso 4y ago

Coincidentally, the @TweetTweaker account — which AFAIK was the first to call wide attention [0] to Elon buying up twitter shares right after his $5k offer to @ElonJet was rebuffed — is currently suspended. Its last public interaction was around Nov 6, 2022 [1] https://archive.vn/WLXQJ https://archive.vn/WLXQJ [1] https://twitter.com/GreatPaul_Smith/status/1589424137864609793 https://twitter.com/GreatPaul_Smith/status/15894241378646097...

grumple 4y ago
It's pretty amazing that one guy tweeting public info made Elon spend 44 billion.
- dylan604 4y ago
  yeah, it seems to me that Elon Musk has the emotional stability of a teenager hitting puberty, only filthy rich
- Hamuko 4y ago
  I imagine an assassination would've been cheaper.
  - swagasaurus-rex 4y ago
    Jail time would be very expensive for somebody who owns several companies
    - hayst4ck 4y ago
      While we're all being glib, I don't know how you can look at America right now and think that law applies to billionaires. I would be astounded if we saw real proportional consequences against any of America's aristocracy. As long as you aren't killing or hurting other billionaires, I think they have practical blanket immunity.
      - willhslade 4y ago

sieabahlpark 4y ago

ffggvv 4y ago

isn’t this basically like doxxing? aren’t the people criticizing this move the ones who would be in hysterics if someone did this to a journalist or politician they like? especially if it was a woman of color or whatever preferred group

mikeyouse 4y ago
No.
kayodelycaon 4y ago
The data is publicly available. See https://flightaware.com https://flightaware.com :) Edit: Here's all of the ORD to GRB flights https://flightaware.com/live/findflight?origin=K https://flightaware.com/live/findflight?origin=K ORD&destination=KGRB Here's all Cirrus SR-20s https://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/SR20 https://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/SR20 (Single engine propeller plane, usually privately owned)
- deleted 4y ago
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Xelynega 4y ago
No, it's not like doxxing. Doxxing is when you find someone private details and publish them publicly. This account took public information from flight tracking information and published it publicly. That's why it's not the same as publishing the home address of a journalists who is a woman of colour.
- deleted 4y ago
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- throwawayacc3 4y ago
  >No, it's not like doxxing. Doxxing is when you find someone private details and publish them publicly. That isn't true. >This account took public information from flight tracking information and published it publicly...That's why it's not the same as publishing the home address of a journalists Home addresses and the property owner's information are publicly available, typically from the county. This is not considered "private" information in the US, unfortunately. >who is a woman of colour. Stop being a racist/sexist. Reddit is that way. You can have all the racist/sexist fetishization parties you want over there. Get this garbage off HN.

francisduvivier 4y ago

Wasn't this a bot account? If so, I don't really see what all the fuzz is about.

minimaxir 4y ago
Bots are allowed on Twitter if disclosed, which ElonJet was.
- francisduvivier 4y ago
  Oh interesting, then indeed, certainly worth fuzzing about.

sergiotapia 4y ago

Good, don't be a creepy guy and stalk someone like this.

stephc_int13 4y ago

A lot of people have been naïve about Elon Musk, especially Lex Fridman and Joe Rogan. Elon is not in the Ponzi business like SBF, but we've seen quite a few questionable statements and borderline vaporware predictions. More rational scrutiny and skepticism is needed, as a general rule, for anyone in power.

cyberlurker 4y ago
I want to hear Lex Fridman say if he has changed his opinion or not on Elon. I am not sure about Lex. He gives a platform to people who are disingenuous and then doesn't question them hard enough. Another person who defends Elon is Bill Maher. I am curious what he will say in the new year. Also MKBHD.
- TOMDM 4y ago
  People criticising Lex on his position on the Twitter Files on the lex subreddit were banned recently, despite Lex publicly saying in that same thread he didn't want criticism banned. https://old.reddit.com/r/lexfridman/comments/zf0zqx/the_twitter_files_saga_why_lex_is_wrong/iz9ks30/ https://old.reddit.com/r/lexfridman/comments/zf0zqx/the_twit... Getting echoes of Musk honestly. So I assume Lex continues to be as bought into Musk's narrative.
- stephc_int13 4y ago
  I still give Lex some credits but I am also suspicious. I think he proved more than once that he is far from an expert on AI/Robotics, and that he tends to be naïve/gullible with his hosts. The hosts themselves are often interesting and the whole setup/duration is nice enough. I don't mind too much about the host being half-smart. Except when he is a simp of Elon his clique. Makes me sad.

erik_landerholm 4y ago

Literally the reason he bought Twitter. Congrats Elon! /s

nothrowaways 4y ago

Ella: "hey sister guess where I am, I'm flying with Elon!" Sister: "oh yeah you are in (lat, lon)?, I saw it on elonjet" Ella opens slack, Ella Irwin: " team apply heavy VF on elonjet "

jupp0r 4y ago

https://mobile.twitter.com/GatesJets https://mobile.twitter.com/GatesJets is still up, maybe this is about Elon after all?

Sateeshm 4y ago
Gone now

Nifty3929 4y ago

Does anyone else see any daylight between criticizing someone and tracking their movements? I think there are two cases we should observe to be able to judge motives here: - What happens to Twitter accounts that are heavily critical of Musk, but do not track him or otherwise lead to real-world harassment/violence? - What happens to a Twitter account that is tracking someone else who isn't Musk? If Twitter is allowing the former (Musk criticism), and banning the latter (tracking/harassment of non-Musk people), then I think this is fine.

nilstycho 4y ago
As of right now, @bezosjets and @ZuccJet, operated by the same person as @ElonJet, are both active.
- Nifty3929 4y ago
  Then I agree that this is inconsistent and bad. I'm generally far to the free-speech side always, but I don't think publicly tracking people should be allowed. (In a deliberate, ongoing way. I'm sure there's room for "Hey, I just saw Susan Smith at McDonald's" or such)

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xqcgrek2 4y ago

Seems bots have invaded HN. Very weird echo chamber-ish thread.

deleted 4y ago
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seydor 4y ago

It doesn't amaze me the things that twitter does to gather attention. It amazes me how well it works

fsoteras_xps 4y ago

Lets generalize the concept of ElonJet , are we ok for apps disclosing localization of anybody main vehicle? e.g.: the localization at any time of the day of your car? or let generalize more: your localization at any moment of the day or the localization of your underage son or daughter? For my case I wouldn't like that at all nonetheless the fact that I am totally unimportant, and I don't see people that frees that data in the open without permission of the tracked ones as users of free speech rights...

michelb 4y ago
Elonjet was just reposting public information. Don't want your jet to be tracked? Don't buy a jet.
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
> your localization at any moment of the day Your personal body is not an aircraft. Flying one is a privilidge and a safety risk, think 911. If you don't like it, don't fly it.
insane_dreamer 4y ago
you can't generalize it because one is made public by FAA regulations and the other is not; the argument, if there is one, is whether FAA should require that information to be publicly available or not, not whether someone republishes that information on their Twitter account

stephc_int13 4y ago

Has Elon ever heard of the Streisand effect?

mtmail 4y ago
There's so many Twitter/Elon stories in the news cycle right now I'd be more worried he causes artificial little scandals to distract people from other scandals. Not sure what that strategy is called.
- chadlavi 4y ago
  It's called being addicted to attention. He's just a troll that wants the news to be constantly talking about him. Negative, positive, doesn't matter to him (and it's easier to garner negative attention).
- gumboza 4y ago
  Judge baiting at this point.
- jtylr 4y ago
  Possibly the dead cat strategy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_cat_strategy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_cat_strategy
- cshimmin 4y ago
  Seems inspired by trump's playbook?
nroets 4y ago
The HN community should start our own version: We retrieve the latest ElonJet info and then tweet it. See how many of us Twitter suspends.
- Lendal 4y ago
  No need. He's already up on Mastodon. Check out the number of follows it already has -> https://mastodon.social/@elonjet https://mastodon.social/@elonjet

forthorbor 4y ago

It was only a matter of time, I can't believe anyone fell for this. As soon as he started banning "parodies" of himself this was the only logical next escalation.

ck2 4y ago

Dude has to pay $1 BILLION per year in financing. He can do whatever he wants, for now, until his debtors own it in a year or two. Everyone needs to use this time to build better alternatives. Personally I'm hoping everyone just goes back to their own blogs and Twitter, Facebook, etc. goes the way of AOL

itslennysfault 4y ago
Log live RSS!!!

renewiltord 4y ago

HN has an outrage problem. It's not new. It goes back to the "vote for funding" thing that Moxie won. And it continues with this week's "Google upped my renewal fee" ragebait. And before that it was some claim that one of the FAANGs was exfiltrating network traffic surreptitiously (enthusiastically corroborated by HNers) until discovered to be false. In recent memory, the only time the outrage was justified in hindsight was when ICANN had that issue with .org domains. The rest of the time it has seemed to me that the comments come up with 2 min hate and then emerging facts turn out to be different. My priors are, therefore, quite high that the outrage is usually unjustified. The boy cried wolf too much.

323 4y ago

Just like this story will not survive more than 4 hours on the HN frontpage, despite the number of upvotes/comments.

johnhenry 4y ago

At lest Trump still has our back https://truthsocial.com/@ElonJet https://truthsocial.com/@ElonJet

taolegal 4y ago

[flagged]

maxbond 4y ago

I'm wondering if anyone has recently changed their mind about Elon Musk, in particular about whether he is a free speech advocate?

cyberlurker 4y ago
I have definitely changed my mind on Elon from an overly positive opinion of him to being disappointed in him. I thought his free speech push was a genuine attempt, even if a naive approach. But his immature, politics baiting tweets have really exposed who he is. I definitely remember defending his actions in the past and apparently I was wrong. He is an asshole. I still maintain that he isn't stupid though. I enjoyed hearing him discuss SpaceX work on podcast interviews in the past.
- maxbond 4y ago
  No shame in that. Thanks for sharing

docmars 4y ago

Doxing a private personal vehicle's location publicly is not free speech.

dt3ft 4y ago
Isn’t the data publicly available anyway?
- shkkmo 4y ago
  The data isn't publicly available from the government because the plane is on the LADD list https://laddlist.com/aircraft/N628ts https://laddlist.com/aircraft/N628ts Thus the only public source is from the company ADSBExchange because it uses croudsourced data.
  - meepmorp 4y ago
    The data are broadcast from the plane itself, though, for the explicit purpose of allowing the plane's location to be known. That's definitely public data.
    - shkkmo 4y ago
      Your face, license plate, IP address, etc are all also "public data" in the same sense. When you have large scale aggregation and dissemination of this data that still can create grave privacy and safety concerns. I strongly believe that aggregation of many types of this sort of data should be made illegal by privacy laws. I am less sure if those laws should cover flight location data, but it seems like a discussion worth having. We need to weigh the privacy and safety loss against the transparency gains.

e_commerce 4y ago

Balgair 4y ago

Here's the ADSBExchange info for his jet, in case you still needed to know that: https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a835af https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a835af Currently on the ground in Texas after flying out of LA.

Blue111 4y ago

Took longer then I thought... just looked at this account yesterday or the day before.

itslennysfault 4y ago

Does anyone have contact info for the person that runs this? Is he gonna pick it back up on Mastodon or Reddit or his own domain? If it were me I would make it as multi-platform as possible just out of spite. Maybe even create a new twitter once a week and let them play wack-a-mole with it. edit... seems there is already a reddit (where you'd expect), but it is (apparently) tied to a crypto token. They have a .io domain (the one you expect) and it's just promoting crypto and has an iframe to https://opensky-network.org/aircraft-profile?icao24=a835af https://opensky-network.org/aircraft-profile?icao24=a835af to make it the "elonjet" coin. Man, people will attach crypto to anything.

rs_rs_rs_rs_rs 4y ago

"Private company, they can do whatever they want"

electrondood 4y ago
This position isn't the issue. It's pretending very publicly to care about one thing while consistently acting contrary to it. The "free speech" meme was always complete bullshit.

paxys 4y ago

Gonna be fun to see Elon fans apply their standard mental gymnastics and explain why this is actually “free speech absolutism”.

minusSeven 4y ago

Thinking of buying shorts on twitter now with all the dumb ass news going around...

shkkmo 4y ago
You can't buy shares or shorts of a company that is privately owned. The best you could do is find a prediction market and bet against specific metrics.
- typon 4y ago
  The best you can do is find a correlated stock (Tesla) and short that instead. I think if Twitter goes bankrupt, you can expect Tesla to enter free-fall.
  - shkkmo 4y ago
    > I think if Twitter goes bankrupt, you can expect Tesla to enter free-fall. I think a drop in Tesla share price would be likely, but I don't see why it would hit freefall?
    - typon 4y ago
      Tesla's current share price is extremely inflated - the market has priced in Elon Musk's genius magic. If this genius magic turns out to be a total fraud, Tesla stock price should go down to levels reflecting the stock price of a similarly sized/revenue producing car company. To give you an idea: Tesla revenue: 74.86B Toyota revenue: 260.13B Tesla market cap: 498.56B Toyota market cap: 234.96B That's roughly a 7.4x difference in expectation vs. reality.
      - shkkmo 4y ago
        I would hazard that some of that expectation is due to Tesla's potential for growth due to expected growth of the EV market. I also think that a lot of anti-Musk sentiment has already been priced in. While a Twitter bankruptcy would absolutely have some further impact on that sentiment, it doesn't seem immediately obvious that it would wipeout all of Musk's fanatical support. Given that, an immediate drop to 13% of Tesla's current value seems like a significant overestimate if Tesla keeps hitting sales and production targets. If Twitter bankruptcy accompanies a significant reduction in Tesla sales, I could see a drop of that size or larger, but not from a Twitter bankruptcy alone.

m3kw9 4y ago

Everyone here is pissed, but let’s see how it works out if there is an account tracking your own location.

brovak 4y ago
It's all public flight information. Anyone who has a private jet can be tracked like Elon.
- shkkmo 4y ago
  It's only publicly available via a company that uses crowdsourced data. The plane is on the LADD list which prohibits official FAA information on the planes movements from being made publicly available.
  - nickthegreek 4y ago
    OP's point remains.
- preordained 4y ago
  Should anyone have a trending Twitter account just for them parroting as much to the world? I know for a fact people in our industry have spirited meetings about PII grey areas and other hairy issues, it's jarring to me to see the same people commenting in crude black and white terms whenever an unpopular figure is involved.
  - nickthegreek 4y ago
    According to Elon Musk as recently as yesterday, yes they should be allowed to have an account to parrot info to the world. There are many other accounts whose sole existence is to report other jet data (See @celebjets). None of those accounts got banned.
typon 4y ago
Most people here aren't pissed about the content of the banned account, but the hypocrisy from a self-proclaimed free speech warrior. If he didn't claim to be one, this wouldn't be news or interesting whatsoever.

_JoRo 4y ago

I'm kind of curious what people are most upset about here? 1. They just don't like Elon? 2. They are upset that despite Elon claiming to be a "free speech absolutist" that he is now suspending accounts posting public information? (hypocrisy) 3. They are free speech absolutists themselves and object to this censorship? 4. Something else? Personally, depending on how often Elon is using this plane - I could see this as a form of doxxing (although not strictly). I think the publicity that the account has been receiving recently is probably why it got suspended. It will be interesting to see whether any other legal or social policy is created related to this issue.

glonq 4y ago
Yup. In Elon's defence (not that he needs or deserves it) -- if I had a bunch of armed and angry folks who wanted to see me dead, I wouldn't want their job made easier thanks to some doofus publicising my location in real-time.
- nickthegreek 4y ago
  It is not his real time location. It is the location of 3 planes.
- sudosysgen 4y ago
  It makes no difference. The location of any civilian aircraft in the air is legally required to be published.
  - _JoRo 4y ago
    And it still is. It's just not nearly as accessible or overtly obvious as it once was. I'm not sure if this would have happened if the account wasn't given extra attention in the media in recent weeks. Prior to an article 2 weeks ago, I never even knew that this information was publicly accessible, and now I know if I want to try to figure out where Musk, Gates, Zuckerberg, or other public figures might be, I can check out the author's website. Now the main site will probably even gain more visibility which will also expose other individuals personal jets. Like I said before, it will be interesting to see what impact this will have elsewhere.

rqtwteye 4y ago

I feel Musk is falling into the same trap most other social media celebrities with large followings fall into. At some point they get addicted to controversy and outrage as long as they get attention. He would be way better off if he cared more about his businesses and kept his mouth shut. The signs were already clear with all the nonsense he did during the Thai cave situation. He tried to suck up attention with his little submarine and then got mad when it turned out it was useless. Jordan Peterson is another example of this. He used to have some good insights but what I have heard from him lately sounds very authoritative and appeals to his followers but is pretty hollow.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

andrewclunn 4y ago

3 possibilities: 1) Elon is trying to position himself as being "pro free speech" in the same way Jack Dorsey did (it's just marketing, and not a truly held principle). 2) Somebody in the organization is making decisions that Elon will reverse in the next 24 hours to prove that they did not come from him. 3) Some specific threat has been made against Elon that has him now paranoid about his security to the extent that he's rethinking his principles when faced with his own mortality. The difference between 1 and 3 being whether he never had principles or is now giving them up. I'm guessing it's 3 because I've seen SO MANY public figures I once respected do the exact same thing once the danger of standing on principle became all too palpable.

electrondood 4y ago

I understand this move, but need to point out how hypocritical this is for Mr. Free Speech. Basically, his entire tenure so far has been "free speech for me and the accounts that were rightfully banned for violating the TOS!" in public, and then "we'll deboost anyone who doesn't pay me a subscription" and "let's selectively release internal comms in a misleading way to make normal company operation in good faith seem like a liberal conspiracy."

bobleeswagger 4y ago
40four 4y ago
I'm flabbergasted by the overwhelming response that this account should be allowed "in the name of Free Speech". This isn't a free speech issue. This is a personal safety issue. It is a personal attack towards Musk. As high profile as he is, and the amount of controversy surrounding him, he certainly has a target on his back. I consider that account a form of Doxxing, and I can't think of any good reason it should be allowed to exist. It feels like everyone is so upset with Elon, that we all want to play this game of "Gotcha" with every move he makes. Doesn't seem like anyone is considering that account is a real safety/ security issue for him.
- kweingar 4y ago
  I honestly would not have cared about the account being banned, except for the fact that Musk won points for nobly saying he would not ban the account.
  - ncr100 4y ago
    The real concern is whether Musk will direct Terrorism to Jack Schwartz's doorstep, like he did with the former exec & the CP accusations.
- encoderer 4y ago
  You’re “flabbergasted”? This is publicly available information. What exactly is the safety threat with this twitter acct?

auditor_3d 4y ago

I won't lie, I'd ban the hell out of that account to if I was him.

enumjorge 4y ago
Hopefully you wouldn’t market yourself as a free speech absolutist and make a big stink about censorship by the previous leadership, unlike Musk.

mberning 4y ago

Where are all the principled “it’s a private company” people now lol.

detaro 4y ago
“it’s a private company” is an argument about legality. Doesn't mean you can't criticize or make fun of a company or its Chief Twit for what it does.
- drak0n1c 4y ago
  That argument was most commonly used in the past to dismiss criticisms of corporate social media policy, even when there was no mention of legality or government intervention.
  - cocacola1 4y ago
    Was it? I always saw "it's a private company" used when people were complaining about a particular social media policy contravening the first amendment and people pointing out that the first amendment doesn't apply to private companies.
- ergocoder 4y ago
  Here is one of the people. Now it is just a legal matter. When banning trump, it is used as the main argument.
bcrosby95 4y ago
He's allowed to do whatever he wants with his private company. I'm also allowed to say "liar liar pants on fire" when he does things that goes against what he said he would do.

fzeroracer 4y ago

Not at all surprised to see people I argued with prior suddenly shift tact to instead argue that it's a privacy issue etc etc despite literally taking the free speech stance like a few weeks prior. As I've said and will keep saying Musk does not care about free speech. People are falling for the lies of a billionaire who has been caught in multiple objective lies before.

lxe 4y ago

Elon's free speech seems to be just as free as his full-self-driving cars are full-self-driving.

tibbydudeza 4y ago

So this "Ella Irwin" - Elon's hatchet woman :).

iamgopal 4y ago

I think with enough positive feedback loops, we can control elon to get done anything.

40four 4y ago

It's amazing to me the mental gymnastics one must have to do to defend the @ElonJet account, simply because you might not like Elon on a personal level. Of course that account should be suspended. Yeah I know, public information/ free speech, blah blah. But it is quite frankly a personal attack on Musk, and I consider it a form of Doxxing. As high profile as Musk is, something like that account is a real threat to his personal safety in my opinion. I don't see how anyone would think that's ethical or reasonable to allow to continue?

4512124672456 4y ago
> As high profile as Musk is, something like that account is a real threat to his personal safety in my opinion. People who want to actually harm Elon Musk don't need that Twitter account to do so. I don't see how it is a threat to his personal safety, when this data is easily available elsewhere.
jklinger410 4y ago
My commitment to free speech extends even to not banning the account following my plane, even though that is a direct personal safety risk - @elonmusk 11/06/22
- 40four 4y ago
  I honestly was unaware of the this tweet, and it's interesting he mentions he personal saftey. So now he changed his mind that his personal security is more important? Hardly outrageous to me. I don't wish for anyone to be less safe in the name of free speech.
agluszak 4y ago
I think it kinda gives food for thought that the only place where ElonJet was banned is his own platform.

ilrwbwrkhv 4y ago

Honestly Hacker News seems to be the last bastion of intelligent free speech. We must defend this space thusly.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

ajmurmann 4y ago

Any discussion about free speech that doesn't address stochastic terrorism, the firehose of falsehood and the paradox of tolerance is meaningless. This action likely shows that Musk intuitively understands the dangers of stochastic terrorism for himself (this is really one of the mildest version imaginable), but doesn't understand or doesn't want to understand the abstract concept and that it should impact speech on his and other platforms or at least needs to be addressed in a mature way.

doener 4y ago

The account on Mastodon: https://mastodon.social/@elonjet https://mastodon.social/@elonjet

BoardsOfCanada 4y ago

The account seems to be up and running when I click the link. If anything this shows how badly people want to find anything to criticize Musk for. Accounts get flagged, give it half a day at least.

ihuman 4y ago
OP links to bot's creator's Twitter account, which hasn't been suspended. The @ElonJet account is still suspended. https://twitter.com/elonjet https://twitter.com/elonjet
lame-robot-hoax 4y ago
The linked tweet isn’t the suspended account, @ElonJet is. And of this moment, it’s still suspended.

rubyist5eva 4y ago

Stalking is not free speech.

alangibson 4y ago

I'm really embarrassed to have once been a Musk fanman (strictly as a space nerd). I know I shouldn't be, but I'm shocked at how much of a mendacious cretin he turned out to be. He, SBF, and many more like them are just a bunch of Chauncy Gardeners. People convince themselves that they're geniuses until one day the realization dawns that they've been dunces all along.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
gen220 4y ago
Hey, at least Chauncy wasn't delusional about his true powers or self-aggrandizing in seeking more power! Still, it's a very apt reference these days, maybe all days. The narrative arc feels evergreen, in that the surreal irony feels like it would land (and be thoroughly entertaining!) in any era of human history.
diego_sandoval 4y ago
You can be really smart, even genius, and still make mistakes, or become corrupted by power and wealth. There isn't a dichotomy between genius and asshole. I still think Elon's contributions to society are much greater than his flaws. And his contributions don't come from being a "genius" (there are at least hundreds of thousands of geniuses on Earth) as much as from being extremely hardworking.
- alangibson 4y ago
  I'm not drawing a dichotomy between genius and asshole, I'm saying that Musk has revealed himself to be quite a dumbass in reality. For instance, you have to be exceptionally dumb to pay $44B for a company worth $12B. I'm not saying he doesn't have some talents. But like SBF and Elizabeth Holmes, his superpower seems to be creating a reality distortion field, not economics, physics, or anything else that makes for a long-term success. There are a lot of anecdotal stories about teams at Tesla and SpaceX managing up to keep him from making terrible decisions all the time. I used to thing it just grousing, but now I'm not so sure.

thih9 4y ago

Aren’t we going to see copycats? Are they all going to be blocked? I feel like I’m missing something.

neuronexmachina 4y ago

(Flagged) HN thread from when the ElonJet account was allegedly shadowbanned a couple days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33957682 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33957682

overgard 4y ago

I'm not going to justify this action, I think he's in the wrong, but if the only speech he's suppressing is people making fun of him I don't care that much. Hypocrite, sure, but I'm more worried about the project Matt Taibbi lays out in pt 3 of the twitter files: > Before the Capitol riots, the company was engaged in an inherently insane/impossible project, trying to create an ever-expanding, ostensibly rational set of rules to regulate every conceivable speech situation that might arise between human beings. > This project was preposterous, yet its leaders were unable to see this, having become infected with the firm’s groupthink, coming to believe – sincerely – that it was their responsibility to control, as much as possible, what people could talk about, how often, and with whom. ^ THAT, is the kind of policy I'm worried about.

anshumankmr 4y ago

Someone posted a meme before Elon completed the purchase (or maybe shortly after) about how this account would be nuked from orbit. I thought something so transparently hypocritical would not happen but here we are.

Netisneverfree 4y ago

simple10 4y ago

I'm curious how they're internally spinning the justification. It doesn't seem to be a violation of Twitter's Automation Rules [1] but ostensibly could be a violation of their harassment rule [2]. It's a bit of a stretch. The litmus test will be if/when the internal comms get released as part of the Twitter Files. I won't hold my breath. [1] https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/twitter-automation https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/twitter-autom... [2] https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/twitter-rules https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/twitter-rules

madeofpalk 4y ago
> I'm curious how they're internally spinning the justification "Boss said to do it".
meepmorp 4y ago
The same guy has other twitter accounts that track other people's planes, and those are still active (or were when I checked an hour ago). Res ipsa loquitur.
erlich 4y ago
It's a pretty clear-cut policy violation: https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/personal-information https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/personal-info... > Our primary aim is to protect individuals from potential physical harm as a result of their information being shared, so we consider information such as physical location and phone numbers to be a higher risk than other types of information. > Under this policy, you can’t share the following types of private information, without the permission of the person who it belongs to....home address or physical location information So Elon essentially gave permission, and now he has revoked it. The difficulty those on the other-side of this argument have is that they themselves are not arguing that this shouldn't be the policy, and that this "doxing" behavior is not wrong. In fact, no one is. There is not a single person claiming free speech is being violated here. There is not any kind of movement or group that is campaigning for doxing of location information as a right. Essentially, people are saying: you are not allowing the things that no one thinks should be allowed anyway.

jdlyga 4y ago

Once a shining star on Twitter's skies, Elonjet's wings were clipped and it could no longer rise. Its tweets were a joy, tracking Musk's private jet, But now it's been silenced, its fate is set. Elon Musk now reigns supreme on the platform we love, But his control has come at a cost, with many pushed out. The fired workers are left to wonder and roam, While Musk's grip on the site only continues to grow. Oh Elonjet, how we'll miss your tweets and updates, Tracking Musk's travels with such keen insight. Your suspension is a sad moment, a loss to be sure, But your spirit lives on in the memories of those who adored. -Credit to ChatGPT

lisper 4y ago

Can someone please explain to me what/who is ElonJet and why I should care that he/she/it has been suspended?

pigtailgirl 4y ago
-- bot account that tweets location of Elons private jet --
- lisper 4y ago
  Ah, thanks. In that case I don't understand what all the fuss is about. I am about as unsympathetic to Elon Musk as you can get, but it still seems reasonable to me to shut down what is essentially an automated doxxer.

UncleOxidant 4y ago

As an aside: I keep seeing claims on mastodon that any mention of mastodon on twitter gets flagged. Not having a twitter account I can't test that claim. Any twitter users up to try an experiment?

zagrebian 4y ago

I hope Last Week Tonight does a main story on Elon when it comes back.

jszymborski 4y ago

When the Elon/Twitter transaction went through, there were a lot of HN comments stating that they thought that this might actually mean a more open, "freer" Twitter. When I mentioned that Elon had already been using his power unilaterally to re-platform personal allies like Babylon Bee and Ye, I got all sorts of pedantry about the difference between suspension and banning, more pedantry about the Ye reactivation happening moments before the deal went through and some justifications about Babylon Bee not having done anything wrong, etc... I will reiterate here again. Musk will squeeze every bit of perceived power he may have out of Twitter by issuing personal favours like the petty, tin-pot tyrant that he is.

xupybd 4y ago
My hope was for a more transparent Twitter. I guess that's out the window too.
- hn_go_brrrrr 4y ago
  I dunno, with all of the recent leaks, Twitters internal workings have all been made public. Sounds pretty transparent to me!
  - philjohn 4y ago
    Does it? It doesn't to me. It feels like they've deliberately hand picked things that would rile up the base - dropping that the Trump admin requested content removed, but not showing that, then including an image of links the Biden campaign wanted removing, leaving out the fact that every single one of those links was non consentual intimage imagery of a private citizen is the antithesis of transparency to me.
    - hn_go_brrrrr 4y ago
      Those are Twitter's official comms, not the leaks.
      - 4y ago

andreygrehov 4y ago

It is possible that Twitter recently removed the account as part of the last week's bot accounts clean-up process, rather than Elon personally shutting it down. It is highly likely Elon is not even aware that this specific account was suspended. Why is the general assumption that this was an intentional move? There were several occasions when HN algorithms flagged my comments/submissions and then someone from the HN team would reach out saying that this was a mistake and the result of a non-human intervention. Why is the same scenario not considered? We shall see, but honestly, I believe @ElonJet will be reactivated by the end of today.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

esalman 4y ago

Elon Musk is the Donald Trump of silicon valley. Sadly, Americans never learn.

LinuxBender 4y ago

Elon is probably multitasking too much to realize he could have left the account up and just traded-up the plane to a newer model and used a different company or legal entity to acquire the old plane. Form an LLC Elon's Musk... Surely he must have a wealthy friend that could buy the plane just to troll people with all the unusual places they could land. I think my first stop would be a private air-strip just outside Area 51. The FAA registration would eventually update but their paperwork is slow thus there would be some lag time.

nimbius 4y ago

at the risk of a downvote or three, this is a crackling log in the dumpster fire of twitter. major brands and advertisers jumped ship a month or two ago and very few have returned to see how elons checkmark 2.0, sink-dragging, maximum-hard-work "meet me on the tenth floor" late-on-the-rent leadership have panned out. by all accounts, if your brand is safely evacuated from twitter, @elonjet is proof you probably dodged a bullet or two and should get some recognition by EOY for your efforts.

dimator 4y ago
> major brands and advertisers jumped ship a month or two ago i've heard this before, is it backed by data? where is the data? anecdotally: active: https://nitter.snopyta.org/pepsi/status/1603075671881879556#m https://nitter.snopyta.org/pepsi/status/1603075671881879556#... https://nitter.snopyta.org/beatsbydre/status/1603091341713473538# https://nitter.snopyta.org/beatsbydre/status/160309134171347... https://nitter.snopyta.org/Ford/status/1603080041138733056#m https://nitter.snopyta.org/Ford/status/1603080041138733056#m https://nitter.snopyta.org/TOMFORD/status/1603084973451493378#m https://nitter.snopyta.org/TOMFORD/status/160308497345149337... https://nitter.snopyta.org/SNICKERS/status/1602665017769328640#m https://nitter.snopyta.org/SNICKERS/status/16026650177693286... https://nitter.snopyta.org/Oreo/status/1603042472866861068#m https://nitter.snopyta.org/Oreo/status/1603042472866861068#m https://nitter.snopyta.org/Disney/status/1602725046463696903#m https://nitter.snopyta.org/Disney/status/1602725046463696903... https://nitter.snopyta.org/Samsung/status/1602575534898089984#m https://nitter.snopyta.org/Samsung/status/160257553489808998... https://nitter.snopyta.org/ProcterGamble/status/1600922522295234561#m https://nitter.snopyta.org/ProcterGamble/status/160092252229... https://nitter.snopyta.org/AppleMusic/status/1602452836004028418#m https://nitter.snopyta.org/AppleMusic/status/160245283600402... https://nitter.snopyta.org/OppenheimerFilm/status/1603027027887390722#m https://nitter.snopyta.org/OppenheimerFilm/status/1603027027... inactive: https://nitter.snopyta.org/CocaCola https://nitter.snopyta.org/CocaCola https://nitter.snopyta.org/Charmin https://nitter.snopyta.org/Charmin or maybe I'm confusing "posting" with "spending on advertising"?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

GeckoEidechse 4y ago

Seems like there's a now an account for it on Mastodon https://mastodon.social/@elonjet https://mastodon.social/@elonjet

gxon 4y ago

These paper hands, they fold... > My commitment to free speech extends even to not banning the account following my plane, even though that is a direct personal safety risk. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456

zachur 4y ago

I actually think this is reasonable. The account was broadcasting his live location at any given point in time and there's a strong argument it presented a legitimate safety risk given so many people's hatred towards him. It's also hard to say he's banning free speech against himself when it feels like half of twitter is anti-Elon sentiment these days.

TobyTheDog123 4y ago
I have a feeling your comment is going to get a lot of pushback, but I agree with you. I'm reminded of the plotline from The Newsroom where Sloan Sabbith roasts the ACNgage developer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F86ojBeLbxQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F86ojBeLbxQ
hengistbury 4y ago
The account was re-broadcasting publicly available information. Anyone who wanted to harm Musk would easily be able to find this information themselves without the twitter account.
- zachur 4y ago
  True, but the account significantly lowers the bar to finding that information, making it much more likely someone who wishes to do harm could act on it.
  - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
    Notably, he hasn't blocked other accounts which do the same thing so it's only as rational as it is self serving.
  - djur 4y ago
    Seems to me that a lot of the people Elon has targeted with the so-called "Twitter Files" would say they were making the same type of situational harm-reducing judgment call.
jandem 4y ago

toofy 4y ago

what makes this so concerning is, elon clearly understands that posts can amplify danger—even if the posted data is public information already, and there aren’t any clear threats, he understands this when it’s about him. if it even slightly puts him in danger, he takes steps at mitigation. when it’s other people, and the situation is even more dangerous, it almost seems like he revels in the danger those people or groups are put in. even more concerning to me, when those groups ask for mitigation efforts, he goes out of his way to make their concerns appear unreasonable or hysterical. again, even when those threats are more immediate/widespread. this is not something to be brushed away, this has very real implications.

whatinthenote 4y ago

As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last lose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constricting its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master. - Commissioner Pravin Lal, "U.N. Declaration of Rights" From Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri

akiselev 4y ago

Free speech for me but not for thee. Anyone with an ounce of sense saw this coming. This is public flight data reposted to a public channel. Musk now owns one of the biggest platforms on the internet so I’d argue that not only is the information already public but now in the public interest.

yakubin 4y ago

A bit of a tangent: where does the knowledge about which jet is Musk's (in this case N628TS) come from? Are ownership records of jets public information? Isn't that a privacy issue? Imagine if that was the case for cars. It's pretty much a given that governments can track both, but just a random person being able to do that is even worse IMO.

altgoogler 4y ago
Almost all aircraft are equipped with ADS-B transponders, which transmit their tail number and location continuously. Anybody can buy a ADS-B receiver and see info for aircraft flying near them. In good internet fashion, people figured out that they can coordinate large networks of receivers, which basically centralizes a nationwide database of all aircraft movement. So, all this account did was tweet when Elon's jet moved from this central ADS-B database.
- yakubin 4y ago
  That’s not what I’m asking though. I’m asking how they know which jet is Musk’s.

heywherelogingo 4y ago

Opinions and stalking aren't the same thing.

gaoshan 4y ago

The way he behaves is so similar to other super powerful people who know they will not be held accountable. In China Xi Jinping has been carrying out a long running "anti-corruption" campaign and while he does indeed crack down on corruption it also tends to be mostly people that oppose him that get cracked down upon. Elon is doing something similar here by using his power to crack down on someone that "opposes" him while leaving others, conveniently aligned with his interests, untouched. I'm sure we can find examples of this sort of utilitarian hypocrisy everywhere... it highlights the benefits of effective checks and balances on power.

irae 4y ago

My guess to why he banned it now is that before he was more moderate against woke or left in general. Now that he is more openly and harshly targeting woke and Fauci, it becomes a bit more hazardous to have it up. But this looks bad. He should have stated publicly why before banning it.

AntoniusBlock 4y ago

All he originally had to do was to ignore the account. Him offering to buy it, or even him showing that the account perturbed him, exposed his insecurities and only added more eyeballs to the issue.

leobg 4y ago
That’s one interpretation. The other is that personally reaching out to the creator, sharing his concerns and showing respect for the time investment was a kind, honest thing to do. (And that for the creator to refuse, not because he didn’t want to sell, but because he hoped to get more money out of Elon, not because of any worthwhile contribution of him, or because it was his data, but simply to take advantage of the concerns Elon shared with him, was dickish.)

deleted 4y ago

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Slighted 4y ago

Considering the fact that most people here don't consider doxing to be freedom of speech, I don't see what the problem is with this account being banned (Assuming of course that Musk himself actually banned it and it wasn't removed by another staff member or by algorithmic defenses). "Its open source data!" So are the (perfectly legal) doxes on Kiwifarms, yet that's one of the largest reasons its vilified. Additionally, I doubt most people here would be okay with another person very closely watching your movements including this kid if Musk decided to beat him at his own game by setting up cameras around his house (Funny what you can do with enormous amounts of money). Musk is still human whether you like billionaires or not. You'd think that a place like this would be more privacy-oriented and wouldn't be okay with any kinds of telemetry period, or at the very least would want it handled more carefully (Plane data handled by in-house FAA units rather that broadcasted to the web for anyone and everyone to see).

Eisenstein 4y ago
The issue isn't with censoring, the issue is censoring after crying about censorship.
someNameIG 4y ago
Many people don't consider some forms of hate speech and indirect threats of violence free speech either.

iancmceachern 4y ago

Free speech absolutism right here. Wait...

deleted 4y ago

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memish 4y ago

Which is most likely? A) Elon banned the account, reneging on his previous statement, "My commitment to free speech extends even to not banning the account following my plane, even though that is a direct personal safety risk" B) It was erroneously banned by someone else or an automated bot net process without Elon's knowledge and will be overturned when he's made aware of it C) It was banned for another reason we don't know about yet D) Other

janalsncm 4y ago
If the account was from a nobody then I would say B, but since Musk has already offered to pay to have the account closed I would say A.
leobg 4y ago
Oh you brought critical thinking to the topic. That’s generally welcome on HN. But those stories about Musk have an inevitable headline: “Another angle from which to justify your resentment of Elon Musk, including the opportunity to prove that you are a better than him, of not in achievement then in moral standards”. That’s why your comment, which demonstrates knowledge of the circumstances and asks the obvious questions, ranks 1/3 of the page down.

w0mbat 4y ago

It's a stalker account, of course it was banned. I would hope Twitter would ban a similar account stalking Taylor Swift for example.

agilob 4y ago

Can Twitter be actually trusted and profitable in a few months?

outside1234 4y ago

Now available on Mastodon: https://hachyderm.io/@elonjet@mastodon.social https://hachyderm.io/@elonjet@mastodon.social

runarberg 4y ago
Original server here: https://mastodon.social/@JxckS/109513788818540405 https://mastodon.social/@JxckS/109513788818540405 Authenticity has been confirmed with an update on the personal site: https://grndcntrl.net/links/ https://grndcntrl.net/links/

anigbrowl 4y ago

This is certainly a contentious debate that's more of a flamewar than a discussion, but I do not appreciate the HN approach of simply 'disappearing' threads without warning and the resultant waste of time in trying to figure out where they went. Ironically, still easily accessible via the 'best' list: https://news.ycombinator.com/best https://news.ycombinator.com/best Dang, you can skip the anodyne PR statement.

selimhex 4y ago

Jack's twitter is now also suspended. https://twitter.com/JxckSweeney https://twitter.com/JxckSweeney

LightG 4y ago

What a f@cking coward...

masukomi 4y ago

ElonJet has, unsurprisingly, set up an account on Mastodon: https://mastodon.social/@elonjet https://mastodon.social/@elonjet

rbancroft 4y ago

@JxckSweeney, @RUOligarchJets and @spacexjet also just got suspended.

DantesKite 4y ago

It seems like the location of Elon's jet isn't actually public information and requires some sleuthing to figure out. Changes my opinion completely if true. "Elon uses the FAA PIA privacy program for a private plane ID. When using a PIA address, the owner is anon and private, not public. Sweeney’s workaround is (likely) to spot a (rare) ICAO plane resembling Musk’s & noting the private code." https://twitter.com/scottwww/status/1490553502640140288?s=20&t=JuKbcaiZL786Dk9z1txSWg https://twitter.com/scottwww/status/1490553502640140288?s=20...

jjwiseman 4y ago

The jxcksweeney personal account[0] is now suspended, along with the Russian oligarch tracking account[1], the NASA aircraft tracking account(!)[2], @GatesJets, @ZuccJet, and @USAirForceVIP. 0. https://twitter.com/jxcksweeney https://twitter.com/jxcksweeney 1. https://twitter.com/RUOligarchJets https://twitter.com/RUOligarchJets 2. https://twitter.com/NASAPlanes https://twitter.com/NASAPlanes

dyno12345 4y ago
they're also blocking linking to the instagram and facebook accounts (but it currently still works if you add a random query string to the url) https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/1603124548903247872 https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/16031245489032478... also, the journalist reporting this is now filtered from search

jjwiseman 4y ago

Twitter has now suspended his personal account, the NASA aircraft tracking account, the Russian oligarch tracking account, the Bill Gates jets tracker, the Zuckerberg jet tracker, and more.

hzhou321 4y ago

Some billionaires grow integrity at some point since every thing else is just money. Some billionaires never.

wnevets 4y ago

The mastodon https://mastodon.social/@elonjet https://mastodon.social/@elonjet alternative.

deleted 4y ago

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runarberg 4y ago

Here is the statement on mastadon: https://mastodon.social/@JxckS/109513788818540405 https://mastodon.social/@JxckS/109513788818540405

clouddrover 4y ago

Now on Mastodon: https://mastodon.social/@elonjet https://mastodon.social/@elonjet And other places: https://grndcntrl.net/links/ https://grndcntrl.net/links/

schappim 4y ago

Why is this already off the front page after only a few hours, and 1321 points. Are Twitter links automagically weighted down?

kiawe_fire 4y ago

So many comments here and I’m still struggling to see why this is so noteworthy.

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cyounkins 4y ago

Musk tweeted in apparent reference to this: "Any account doxxing real-time location info of anyone will be suspended, as it is a physical safety violation. This includes posting links to sites with real-time location info. Posting locations someone traveled to on a slightly delayed basis isn’t a safety problem, so is ok." https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1603181423787380737 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1603181423787380737

sinoue 4y ago

Absolute power absolutely corrupts. - Lord Acton