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Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

• beardedman 4y ago
  For the price point, it's a novelty. I've tried them once, but it wasn't good enough for me to pay such a premium on an, ultimately, inferior version of the real thing - or even other vegan products.
• brettermeier 4y ago
  https://archive.ph/wB2s4 https://archive.ph/wB2s4
• freeqaz 4y ago
  Paywall so I can only speculate. I have thought about if the idea of wanting to eat meat-like food is a construct created by meat eaters speculating about what vegetarians want. But in reality I think that there is a large portion of vegetarians that view the texture of meat as "gross" and so realistic meat substitutes have no appeal to them. I don't know if this is true or not, and I have no way of proving this other than the times that I've offered beyond meat at a party but not gotten any takers. It's just an idea that perhaps meat eaters are pushing a narrative at a demographic that doesn't have a desire for it!
  • tiahura 4y ago
    Paywall so I can only speculate. Not commenting on an article you didn’t read is always an option.
  • kikokikokiko 4y ago
    As an unrepetenting meat lover and eater I can guarantee you that we simply do not care, AT ALL, about what vegetarians and/or vegans decide to eat. We're just tired of people trying to impose their own conscientious objections on to us. We just want that the people that do not want to eat meat to stop trying to dictate what WE, the ones that love meat, want to eat. There is zero chance that those fake burgers were the brainchild of meat lovers, we simply don't care.
• jerojero 4y ago
  I think this shows us that "technological innovation" solutions are not always the right answer to our problems. I've had these fake-patties and they're good, I've gone to burger king and it's more than good enough. But then again, when I go to the supermarket these are still too expensive compared to regular meat and the flavor profile is not as good. So I they would have to come up with a really killer product, but how can that happen when adoption is so slow? They are not going to get money to really improve things to the required level to dominate the market. In this regard, I think anyone who was hoping for plant-based meat to replace meat was being a little naïve. Imo, the solution to phasing out meats should come more in incentivising proper vegetarian/vegan meal plans, restaurants, etc. Probably through education plans on the benefits and the right ways to approach plant-heavy diets as well as tax incentives and so on. But... do we even want to phase out meat? I think for a large majority of people the answer is no and so we end up with products like "beyond meat". I think vegans are right, ethically and politically but in many cases it is very difficult for us to admit how wrong we are and it really doesn't help when the counterpart comes off as morally superior. There needs to be humility but at the same time, this is not a problem we can really ignore. I think our societies are addicted to meat and so the solution to our meat problem should be the same kind of solutions we apply when we have systemic addiction problems. Education, rehabilitation, support. It's difficult for us to admit that we do have a problem, and being such a systemic world-wide scale problem... well, yeah, it's almost impossible.
  • senand 4y ago
    What about a price to CO2 (with equivalence calculation) emission? This would automatically make the (beef) meat significantly more expensive. And it would essentially just put a price on something which costs a price later anyway.
    • dagw 4y ago
      What about a price to CO2 Until that price shows up at the supermarket it is irrelevant.
      • Double_a_92 4y ago
• CobaltFire 4y ago
  We actually prefer the Beyond Meat patty to a real beef one about 3/4 times in my house. We also prefer their Italian sausage for several recipes. They aren’t the same by any means; we just happen to like the Beyond Meat alternative for those dishes. I really hope they stick around.
  • czbond 4y ago
    I agree. My favorite foods, that I rarely eat for health reasons, are brisket & wings. I believe the Beyond meat burger tastes much better than most beef. I prefer them to the black bean patties, etc.
  • linsomniac 4y ago
    I got some push-back from my family on Beyond Burgers, we were grilling them somewhat regularly this summer and I was perfectly happy with them, but then towards the end of the summer my wife said, and my kids agreed: they didn't like them. I think the Impossible is the better product. But, Beyond is listed on the stock market, so it's easier to see that they've been struggling?
    • CobaltFire 4y ago
      I do think that their patties are a bit easier to get tired of; that's why once in a while we will do a beef patty instead. One place they absolutely don't work for us is Loco Moco. For whatever reason a soft real meat patty just works so much better there. I'll give a try to Impossible and see what we think.
• lm28469 4y ago
  It really is not that complex to understand: You either love meat and won't touch these things with a 10 feet pole or you are vegetarian/vegan and usually take care of what you put in your body, meaning probably a limited amount of junk/processed food, meaning no fake meat substitutes. The market really isn't that big imho, there are already plenty of alternative to meat for most applications, which are cheaper, less processed and taste as good or better My gf is vegan, she makes home made black beans patties, cauliflower patties, spinach patties, &c. they're all excellent, it's more of a question of habit than taste in my opinion
  • sho_hn 4y ago
    > You either love meat and won't touch these things with a 10 feet pole I think this is wrong, and you're missing where the market is. From what I've read, the meat alternatives actually sell primarily to meat eaters who feel like they should occasionally substitute meat for health reasons or variety. Non-meat-eaters have already weaned themselves off meat taste-wise and are not-so-interested.
    • gpderetta 4y ago
      But if you are a meat eater that want to eat healthier, you'll be very suspicious of what appear very heavily processed food and just eat actual vegetable-looking food. That's at least the case for me. Note I'm not saying that these meat substitutes are actually unhealthy, they just look very suspicious to me.
      • nicpottier 4y ago
        I mostly avoid meat for environmental reasons rather than health reasons. So Impossible and Beyond are nice alternatives. you shouldn't be eating hamburgers super regularly either way so the healthiness of alternatives really doesn't matter to me.
      • xeromal 4y ago
        If I'm eating vegetarian, it's probably indian food. They know how to make it tasty and still resembles vegetables and lentils
• qaz_plm 4y ago
  https://archive.ph/wB2s4 https://archive.ph/wB2s4
• nasmorn 4y ago
  I am seeing it in my local super markets. One has delisted the Beyond Meat ground beef substitute. Which makes it harder to get, which means I probably buy it less often too
• georgefrick 4y ago
  "Its stock has slumped nearly 83 percent in the past year. Sales, which the company had expected to rise as much as 33 percent this year, are now likely to show only minor growth." So they still showed growth, the stock just crashed; and the others in the segment who don't have to report numbers are doing better. Just sounds like a discounted stock to me.
  • juujian 4y ago
    That, or it had previously been overvalued. The company was very hyped for a while.
    • walrus01 4y ago
      We can't really say that anybody should be shocked to see irrational exuberance and hype of the stock value of a freshly IPOed tech company in the post-2010 economy, after things recovered from the 2008 financial crisis.
  • aeyes 4y ago
    Not really, if you look at the last 2 years their revenue has been flat and their cost exploded. This stock doesn't look discounted at all, they don't make any money and don't have any growth. I haven't checked their strategy to turn this around but just from the financials I'd say the stock is about where it should be.
  • jsemrau 4y ago
    Is there really a market for that product? I tried their burger patty and couldn't finish. Might be personal taste, but it just didn't work for me. https://app.finclout.io/t/kRPQyAo https://app.finclout.io/t/kRPQyAo
    • Flipflip79 4y ago
      It’s not “might”. It literally is personal taste.
    • kuschku 4y ago
• Overtonwindow 4y ago
  Have seen Beyond Meat ground beef substitute in supermakret but it plant like and unfulfilling
• Wyoming23 4y ago
  This reminds me of the early days of every new technology when the media predicted doom and gloom. Every time an electric vehicle caught fire it was national news, and then someone in the comments would point out that they weren't catching fire any more than gas cars, but that wasn't newsworthy. The early days of the Internet, the media constantly portrayed it as full of child porn and hackers. Now the ultra-critical lens is on meat alternatives. But in 10 years that'll be the default when you order a Big Mac and nobody will think of it as any weirder than any of the other ingredients in packaged and prepared foods.
  • pessimizer 4y ago
    It also reminds me of the late days of every failed technology, like 3D TV. They might have to get the price down, the taste better, or better marketing/management.
• gwbas1c 4y ago
  I married a vegan, and I eat a lot of vegetarian food. (I also still eat plenty of meat, just not every day.) One extremely frustrating aspect of plant meat is that they tried to aggressively push out traditional veggie burgers on restaurant menus. A familiar refrain I've heard in restaurants in the last few years is "we used to have a nice veggie patty, but they replaced it with the beyond/incredible/whatever patty." The thing is, vegetarian food is incredible without needing to taste like meat. When I've had these products, I've always walked away feeling like they taste inferior to traditional vegetarian burgers / sausages that don't try to taste like meat. > Some say the slowdown in sales is a product of food inflation, as consumers trade pricier plant-based meat for less-expensive animal meat. Normally vegetarian food costs less than meat. It's because the animals need to eat (surprise surprise) vegetables! When you eat the vegetables directly instead of having the animal eat the vegetable for your, it's cheaper. IMO, I think the "meat in a vat" system where animal tissue is grown in some kind of factory setting is a much better approach. When I want to eat meat, I want to eat meat.
  • bena 4y ago
    Yeah, I'm not a vegetarian, but I've ordered black-bean burgers and the like from restaurants, just because it's different. And it is. I think these things work better when they aren't trying to be meat.
    • ncallaway 4y ago
      I mean, I think there’s room for both. I eat meat, but I’d replace all my meat consumption with plant based options if it was a similar substitute and matched the price. But I also want the black-bean burger option, because, as you said, it’s a different taste. So I think (I hope anyway) that there’s room for both the vegetarian options that are their own thing, and vegetarian options that aim to be a 1:1 replacement.
  • nicpottier 4y ago
    I disagree. I much prefer a Beyond pattie to more traditional veggie options. It is quite literally a matter of taste though, so you aren't wrong, but your perspective is just your own.
• stephc_int13 4y ago
  Given the popularity of the vegan diet among millennials and Zoomers I expected this type of products to skyrocket. The marketing was building a lot of hype, and targeting fast-food was smart, because I think that meat is usually very low quality so changing for a plant-based recipe could have been a double win: the taste is not worse or better, and the concerns about animal cruelty and bad ecological footprint is the worst for the type of meat used in this industry.
• ioslipstream 4y ago
  Beyond and Impossible are full of chemicals. Definitely not a healthy alternative to traditional veggie patties. I wouldn't even call them food really. It doesn't even really qualify as a veggie burger (it's pea protein isolate, which doesn't really count). Beyond that (no pun intended) it's got a lot of seed oil, which is awful for you.
  • jjcm 4y ago
    Chemicals for those interested: Beyond Meat: water, pea protein, expeller-pressed canola oil, refined coconut oil, rice protein, natural flavors, cocoa butter, mung bean protein, methylcellulose, potato starch, apple extract, pomegranate extract, salt, potassium chloride, vinegar, lemon juice concentrate, sunflower lecithin, beet juice extract Impossible: Water, Soy Protein Concentrate, Sunflower Oil, Coconut Oil, Natural Flavors, 2% Or Less Of: Methylcellulose, Cultured Dextrose, Food Starch Modified, Yeast Extract, Soy Leghemoglobin, Salt, Mixed Tocopherols (Antioxidant), L-tryptophan, Soy Protein Isolate, Zinc Gluconate, Niacin, Thiamine Hydrochloride Definitions of the less common ones: Methylcellulose: A common fiber/laxative. Non toxic. Deemed safe by the FDA and EFSA. Tocopherols: Vitamin E. Often used as a supplement. Naturally occurring in egg yolk and leafy vegetables. L-Tryptophan: An amino acid. Often used as a supplement. Its presence in turkey is what thanksgiving celebrants often assert to be the reason of their "food coma" The ingredient list overall is pretty tame, so not sure which the OP is calling out specifically. There definitely are high oil counts in these though.
  • Rebelgecko 4y ago
    Aren't veggie patties full of chemicals too?
    • orionion 4y ago
      The Bizarre Truth About “Natural Flavors” https://branchbasics.com/blogs/food/the-bizarre-truth-about-natural-flavors https://branchbasics.com/blogs/food/the-bizarre-truth-about-...
      • musicale 4y ago
• spants 4y ago
  McPlant burgers are available in the UK - have they stopped in the USA?
  • dawnerd 4y ago
    Yeah, apparently it didn't sell. I thought they tasted great though, and that's coming from a meat eater.
    • sammalloy 4y ago
      They sell just fine. McDonald’s in the US is ideologically against them. I think I posted about this before. I was in a situation where I got to discuss it with a high level executive. They don’t want it no matter what the consumer demands.
      • dawnerd 4y ago
        The store manager we were buying ours from said no one was buying them there. But then again I don't recall seeing any marketing there that they even had it. We only found out through the app and after looking around for one. I imagine McDonalds wouldn't want something that makes their other burgers look 'unhealthy'. I bet their profit margins were smaller too.
• joxel 4y ago
  It’s just too expensive, pretty simple.
• noobermin 4y ago
  Just a minor note, beyond burger was always subpar compared to impossible meat, which according to the article, is doing well.
  • ajb92 4y ago
    Makes sense to me. I'm a now 7 year vegetarian and I've tried somewhere between most and all of the meatless options I've encountered in restaurants and at grocery stores. I eat probably 15-20 meals a week based around meatless burgers, bacon, chicken, steak, sausage, etc. In that time (well, 2020-present) we've gone from having Beyond burgers constantly in the fridge + inclusion in a meal every few days, and seeking out restaurants that have them, to completely avoiding them. I cannot tell if the flavor has actually changed or my family has become too accustomed to alternatives-- Impossible is king to us and I'll happily take Gardein or even Boca options over Beyond now, althought I'll happily take a Beyond patty over the average black bean burger, my original standard, back before the Brave New Meatless Times (black beans feature heavily in my diet still, but not on bread :). It's worth noting their sausage- and chicken-type products are really quite excellent. But the standard bearer, the burger patty, doesn't compete these days, IMO.
• bgribble 4y ago
  I try hard to avoid red meat for reasons but I do like a burger. I tried the Beyond when it was new and I was really impressed. I thought it tasted great and held together as a patty in a way that a lot of "traditional" bean and veg patties fail to do. Unfortunately after I had cooked a bunch of them I realized what the smell of uncooked Beyond reminded me of: wet cat food. Now I can't get that association out of my head and the smell of the uncooked patties is so revolting I can't really enjoy them any more :(
  • bawolff 4y ago
    Out of curiosity, are you also ok with how raw hamburger looks, because to me personally that's also super gross. I guess everyone is different though.
    • duxup 4y ago
      IMO ground beef can look bad but it doesn’t have a distinct smell.
      • HellsMaddy 4y ago
        When you go vegan for a few years, you can absolutely smell raw ground beef. It's not a good smell.
        • duxup 4y ago
          Are you sure it is the beef and not something about the packaging?
          • valarauko 4y ago
            Not the parent, but you can absolutely smell raw meat. It also lingers on dishes, and it seems at some level to also be a cultural thing whether you can detect the smell. Arabs also have a word for the smell - "zankha"
    • 4y ago
• acchow 4y ago
  After having tried both Beyond and Impossible's offerings, I can't understand why anyone would buy Beyond. It's no surprise they are struggling
  • colordrops 4y ago
    No soy?
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  • Siddarth1977 4y ago
    Seems like it must be personal preference. My experience is the exact opposite of yours, I love Beyond Meat but don't really like Impossible.
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
• tonto 4y ago
  that's too bad...I buy beyond burgers because the pea protein in beyond burger is good to me. I can't eat others like impossible burgers which use soy protein (cross sensitivity to soy from peanut allergy)
• an_aparallel 4y ago
  im confused by eating food like this, sure ethics are important, as is sustainability, but within the ingredients list of something like BM is pretty horrible: Tertiary butylhydroquinone (TBHQ), Red #3/erythrosine, Sodium tripolyphosphate (STPP), Propylene Glycol.... not in my lunch/dinner thanks.
  • kylebyproxy 4y ago
    I'm all for reading labels, but don't go around spreading misinfo. None of those are on the packaging[1]. [1]: https://www.beyondmeat.com/en-US/products/the-beyond-burger https://www.beyondmeat.com/en-US/products/the-beyond-burger
  • perardi 4y ago
    I’ve even heard of such products containing hydroxocobalamin, and even a form of triphosphate.
• sammalloy 4y ago
  The problem in a nutshell is their price point. It’s way, way too high and not competitive with similar products, which is why people aren’t buying it. If they can’t figure this out, then they probably don’t deserve to be in business.
• Spooky23 4y ago
  The product is gross and unhealthy. I also think that the anti-meat trend has peaked out. The people yakking about Soylent were yakking about fake meat, and their attention span is limited.
• jjcm 4y ago
  I'm a meat eater, but am a big fan of fake meats - to the point where I prefer them in some situations. Overall I'm not a huge fan of Beyond Meat. While it does feel closer in taste to beef than impossible burgers, I heavily prefer the taste of impossible burgers to beyond. Impossible burgers have a stronger umami taste and tend to add to the experience. Beyond kinda just tastes like lower end beef to me. This means Beyond is facing a Coke vs Pepsi situation here - effectively halving their market. From a price standpoint, they're more expensive than beef is. While economically this makes sense due to heavy beef subsidies around the world (the US spends $38 billion in subsidies - about $114 per person), it's still a heavy expense for consumers. This means despite being cheaper to make, they're still the more expensive option. This means they're a premium product, not an economic option. When these are the factors at play, it really cuts down the market size. You're really only targeting people who prefer your version, are willing to pay a premium for a sub-par version of a burger while not choosing plenty of the other food options out there. IMO these plant based meats are really doomed to fail unless we stop subsidizing the beef industry. If they become an economically viable choice, they become an option for many more people. Right now they're too niche.
  • notjulianjaynes 4y ago
    The irony is that there is no reason these plant based alternatives should be priced higher than meat. The raw ingredients are dirt cheap. You can get pound of TVP or soy protein is like $3-4; and certainly less at wholesale prices. It comes dehydrated, so back of the napkin I'd guess the cost for a company producing fake meat products is like $1/lb or less. I paid $8.50 at a gas station for 2.47 oz of "Noble Jerky." Ingredients: soy protein, sugar, black bean paste, spices. I imagine the profit margins for these products approaches that of soft drinks.
    • fbdab103 4y ago
      I would love to have harder numbers on their product. I want to eat less meat and the Impossible Burger feels a totally adequate substitute to me, but the price has greatly limited my conversion.
    • xyzzyz 4y ago
• transfire 4y ago
  Had an Impossible Whopper today. Tastes very close to a real burger, but damn did it wreck my stomach.
• bdcravens 4y ago
  Early in the pandemic, during my first trip to a grocery store, I saw that the meat aisle was bare - but for a meat substitute (was either Impossible or Beyond, can't recall). Even in the midst of a global health crisis no one wanted it.
  • SgtBastard 4y ago
    I mean, people didn’t want hoard it. It’s as equally intuitive that there’s little overlap between people who eat meat alternatives and those who stockpiled staples and caused the shortages their stockpiling was supposed to protect them from. Some of the worst displays of poor manners in the “civilised” world was of people fighting over piles of toilet paper.
  • kuschku 4y ago
    Meat substitutes are almost always sold out at my local grocery store. Last week beyond was entirely sold out and I managed to get the last 2 packs of Nestlé's Incredible? Impossible? Whatever it's called, yesterday veggie bacon and salami were sold out, I got like meat's last like gyros pack, and had to get a separate like meat like chicken pack to somehow substitute the missing like gyros pack. Oh and I got Rügenwalder's last Leberwurst. Sometimes I cycle another 2½km to the the next grocery store, because they usually have more like meat and vivera products, but often they're sold out there as well and I've got to try another day.
• linuxftw 4y ago
  People are stating that fake meat is more expensive than real meat. I'd pay more for real meat before I'd ever pay for fake meat. I don't know a single person that eats this stuff on the regular. I know a handful of people that have tried it, that was it. Nobody is being fooled that this product is healthier than real meat. I can't figure out who's buying this stuff.
  • Siddarth1977 4y ago
    I buy a bunch of it. I quit eating meat a few years ago for ethical reasons but I still like to have a burger or brat or have a meat-like product in a pasta sauce or whatnot, and Beyond meat fills that role well.
• gernb 4y ago
  beyond meat sucks imo. It tried and it seemed very bean paste like in texture. whereas Impossible Burger was much much closer to burger.
• LastTrain 4y ago
  The amount of plastic they use in the packaging is atrocious.
• adam_arthur 4y ago
  I can’t for the life of me figure out how they're losing so much money, yet their product is still far more expensive than actual beef. Can a more informed follower provide some insight? Are they just grossly mismanaging their production costs?
  • cowsup 4y ago
    Creating "actual beef" used to be fairly expensive, but, over the decades, companies have found out how to produce it for as cheap as possible, while still earning billions in profits, without consumers feeling as though beef is expensive. That efficiency comes with time. Plant-based meat is still in its infancy by comparison. So, even though the costs to consumers is high, the amount of profit the plant-based companies earn may be similar, or even lower than, what the beef industry earns. Then there's Beyond itself. Striking a deal with McDonald's likely involved a lot of time and money — and then the "McPlant" product immediately failed. If you're going to convince Americans that plant-based meat is good, meeting them where they're at with fast food may seem like a good idea. But the type of people who find themselves in the McDonald's drive-thru, and the type of people who will pay extra for plant-based meat, is a tiny sliver of the theoretical burger Venn Diagram. Now, you could call that grossly mismanaged, or you could call it the best possible shot they had at catering to a wide audience and breaking out of the niche vegan market. But the fact is, the product failed. Where can they possibly go from here to continue growth?
    • adam_arthur 4y ago
      Growth will come when the price comes down. They should be producing this stuff far below the cost of beef. There’s economies of scale, sure, but the ingredients they use are far cheaper than the inputs required to make beef. There is effectively no market for this product at costs that exceed beef
    • m000 4y ago
      > That efficiency comes with time. And subsidies! Don't forget the subsidies!
• peter303 4y ago
  Trying to imitate meat van only go so far. Ordinary plant products have their own flavors and textures that dont need to copy meat.
• gkoberger 4y ago
  It's probably because people have been judging a food company like a tech stock, and now things are leveling out. I'm in tech, and (for whatever reason) I feel more kinship toward Beyond Meat than I do Swanson. It hyped itself up as an innovative product (it is!), raised money like an innovative product (sure, why not) and now is being valued like the product it actually is. This happens all the time (Peloton! Airbnb!), and every time news articles act aghast. At some point, products collide with the industry they're competing with, and start to be valued by the same metrics.
• tpae 4y ago
  I think they have poor marketing. Always start with the why.
• Hermitude 4y ago
  I’ve tried the product and I always thought it silly to produce a plant-based version of an unhealthy meat product so that all the healthy dieters that switched away from said foods now have an unhealthy option restored to them that is more conscionable than what they chose to avoid in the first place.
  • JohnFen 4y ago
    I always thought their target market wasn't vegetarians, but omnivores.
• davidhyde 4y ago
  I stopped buying beyond meat burgers simply because they disappeared from the shelves (of Tesco). For no other reason. The burgers were excellent. To me Beyond Meat just “got it”. I wanted a burger that delivered tasty high energy content and they delivered. The other meat alternative companies went down the health food route which I think is a mistake.
• draw_down 4y ago
• tb_technical 4y ago
  Good. Beyond Meat's production practices were not sustainable in any way!
• layman51 4y ago
  It is interesting how they mention in the article that some Deloitte analysts think there is a segment of consumers who think this plant-based meat is "woke" or is otherwise related to politically-left leaning ideas. I think this kind of resistance to the fake meat is irrational, but there is definitely memes and other ideas on some corners of the internet that associate certain foods/dietary choices with the "Other".
  • Zpalmtree 4y ago
    The people who promote fake meat are also often promoting banning real meat or making it more expensive by adding carbon credits. You can see some of them in this thread.
• warbler73 4y ago
  Basically we are talking about TV dinners and fast food. Meat is cheaper and better in this realm than the expensive and highly processed vegetarian stuff. I'm fine with either but I don't eat much fast food or TV dinners. For homemade the processed fake meat is more expensive and harder to work with than just grilling some steaks.
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• efitz 4y ago
  If you’re vegetarian, why do you want the uncanny valley version of meat? Be a vegetarian. I have always thought that the target market for Beyond/Incredible/etc was not vegetarians, but rather partners of vegetarians. They don’t really want to give up meat but they want to support their partner and/or avoid conflict.
  • plaguepilled 4y ago
    For some people, meat tastes good, but they want to reduce meat intake or remove it from their diet for health or environmental reasons. The status of 'be a vegetarian' is irrelevant to the material effect.
    • Sebguer 4y ago
      These companies only really target the environmental, since they're not actually any healthier than actual meat.
      • plaguepilled 4y ago
        Apologies, I think I used "health" in a misleading way. My intention was not to suggest meat substitutes are strictly better than meat for losing weight, or reducing heart disease, general public health advice (I am not qualified to even make those comments!). The scope I was hoping to address was situations where an individual needs to replace meat for their specific dietary requirements. In this case, meat substitutes may be useful if, say, there is something in meat causing inflammation for the individual. This is largely "what-if" though, and would probably require a doctor's consult to confirm.
  • kristopolous 4y ago
    The play was to be well positioned when the big meat brands (think McDonald's) eventually make the switch which they theorized will have to happen both because of climate change and because they'll have a cheaper, less resource intense substitute. It's really the same play as any technology, the first generation jumps the gun and strikes too early given their ambitions. But someone's gotta be the Yahoo! It's a necessary step in the path.
• icelancer 4y ago
  Beyond Meat is a lot worse than Impossible Burger. They're losing to someone in their same vertical who has a superior product. Unless you are a strict vegan, in which case, you can't eat Impossible Burgers. [0] [0]: https://oopsvegan.com/en/blog/is-the-impossible-burger-vegan https://oopsvegan.com/en/blog/is-the-impossible-burger-vegan
  • girvo 4y ago
    Agreed. And as an aside, the Impossible Mince is pretty excellent, though too expensive for me to use regularly over the cheaper vegan mince alternatives.
  • AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
    That article is trash, so I'll save future readers a click: > soy heme had to undergo animal testing That's it. You have to be that strict a vegan to think it doesn't count.
    • icelancer 4y ago
      Trust me, I agree. I just found the first link that explained it more or less. I am the furthest thing from vegan and I couldn't care less, but wanted to produce some source on why Impossible Meat is not technically vegan certified. Whatever that is.
      • AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
        I'm not aware of any standard of vegan certification. If there was one, and it counted this against Impossible, then it would have to count a whole lot of other ingredients that were animal tested too wouldn't it?
• bergenty 4y ago
  When you push “meat” made of soy, not not helping the narrative. Vegetarians are “pussies” to begin with and you pile on that stereotype with “soy boy”. It doesn’t stand a chance.
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
• primitivesuave 4y ago
  In India, which has the world's largest vegetarian population, there seems to still be a rapid expansion of fast-food burger restaurants taking place (e.g. https://www.burgersinghonline.com/menu https://www.burgersinghonline.com/menu). They cater to this large demographic with low-cost burgers where the meat patty is replaced with a range of existing Indian foods (deep fried cottage cheese, potatoes with mixed vegetables and spices, etc). A single Beyond Meat patty at the U.S. supermarket price is equivalent to the Indian rupee price of ~4 full vegetarian burgers at Burger Singh (the Indian BK).
  • valarauko 4y ago
    To be fair, vegetarian Indians probably wouldn't eat something like the Impossible burger anyway for fear of eating meat, nor is the taste or texture of real meat appealing to them.
• lazylizard 4y ago
  i really want to say this. there is chinese demand for... sea cucumbers...Nostoc flagelliforme..i dunno...all kinds of crab and lobster...shark's fin? that they are prepared to pay good money for.. why are the lab grown food firms trying to compete against the domestic chicken? why not lab grown shark's fin or sea cucumber?
  • COGlory 4y ago
    Are those people paying for the flavor of the food, or because they think it'll cure incontinence or something?
    • lazylizard 4y ago
      flavor/texture/appearance
• jdkee 4y ago
  Humans have consumed animal meat for several million years. Now we need to start eating an artificial concoction consisting of: water, pea protein, expeller-pressed canola oil, refined coconut oil, rice protein, natural flavors, cocoa butter, mung bean protein, methylcellulose, potato starch, apple extract, pomegranate extract, salt, potassium chloride, vinegar, lemon juice concentrate, sunflower lecithin, beet juice extract; as a substitute for beef? See https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/evidence-for-meat-eating-by-early-humans-103874273 https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/evidence-f...
  • sammalloy 4y ago
    > Palaeolithic diets were diverse and prehistoric cooking complex, involving several steps of food preparation. > mounting evidence of plant consumption by both early modern humans and Neanderthals, in addition to meat. Wild nuts and grasses were often combined with pulses, such as lentils, and wild mustard. https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/nov/23/oldest-cooked-leftovers-ever-found-suggest-neanderthals-were-foodies https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/nov/23/oldest-cooke... > Cooking in caves: Palaeolithic carbonised plant food remains from Franchthi and Shanidar https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/cooking-in-caves-palaeolithic-carbonised-plant-food-remains-from-franchthi-and-shanidar/0CB510C9E528CD7AD923469D78E14E42# https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/co...
    • oblio 4y ago
      I don't think he's saying that. He's saying that we ate all of those AND meat, and meat was actually meat, you know, a tried and tested substance on which entire species subsist, while the new thing is a super complex mix of stuff we don't really understand.
      • AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
        Which is just an appeal to nature and/or tradition. If they want to say something of value then they should present data showing that these products are not as healthy as an otherwise identical diet consisting of real meat.
• homero 4y ago
  I can't wait for lab grown meat, that's the actual next frontier
• michaelteter 4y ago
  Really satisfying, foodie-quality meals can exist without meat or fake meat. From a blind taste and smell perspective, animal flesh on a grill is very hard to beat. But if one wants to avoid eating animals, it is possible to do so very happily without resorting to manufactured creations that resemble meat. Unfortunately, good creative vegetarian meals do take more work than throwing a nice steak on a grill. It seems that humans have a predisposition for appreciating hot animal fat with something to chew on. All this is to say that we don't need fake meat. But it takes more effort and work, especially at first. Once the ingredients and skills are in place, however, vegetarial dishes can be more satisfying than typical meat dishes. We should not be wasting business effort to provide fake something, but instead we should be working to teach good alternatives. I think the reason we are in this situation is that companies need to sell things. Selling cooking lessons (good vegetarian cooking recipes and skills) is not as easy as pushing to the grocery store a plastic container with something resembling a hamburger patty.
• rejor121 4y ago
  Plant based meats are full of sodium and chemicals. Now, I’m not saying real meat isn’t; most places stuff meats full of antibiotics etc. If I had to choose one or the other, real meat hands down. I just don’t eat meat that much, maybe twice a week now. I’m looking forward to vat grown meats, but the aluminium foil hat person in me thinks it would be used as a carrier for other crap the government decides to throw in there.
• wopwops 4y ago
  I raise my own cows on grass, slaughter them and fill my freezer with the beef. My wife and children help with the process and love the results. (I can't wait to see how many downvotes this gets.)
• jamal-kumar 4y ago
  Whenever this story comes up I think about how their now-former COO recently "allegedly punched a motorist and bit that man’s on the nose so hard that it tore his flesh" [1] [1] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/sep/20/beyond-meat-douglas-ramsey-biting-nose-road-rage-accusation https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/sep/20/beyond-meat-...
  • ghostpepper 4y ago
    Knowing nothing else about the story, it's amusing to pretend that he was simply desperate to taste any kind of meat after months/years of being forced to give it up due to his position.
    • jamal-kumar 4y ago
      Yeah like it's just a notable headline - "beyond meat" "literally takes chunk out of other human being's nose"
• unity1001 4y ago
  In Europe, it seems to be the opposite. https://heurafoods.com/ https://heurafoods.com/ Not only they taste like the real thing or better, but they are multiplying in variety, number and availability. The 'fake' versions of meat dishes starting to taste much better seems that they should start being called new, actual dishes instead of being considered clones.
• eric4smith 4y ago
  Was a vegan for 15 years. Then switched to carnivore abruptly. Changed my life for the better. Would never eat any plant based fake meat products.
• 0xbadcafebee 4y ago
  If you know cars are problematic, the solution isn't to produce a bicycle that has a "car-like experience". The solution is to make non-car transportation more available, more useful, cheaper, etc, and slowly make car use itself more painful. I have at least 8 vegan dishes I can make that are just amazingly delicious. A mushroom risotto, veggie tajine, chana masala, ramen, moussaka, general tso's cauliflour, cuban black beans, jajangmyeon. Make it vegetarian and I have even more; give me eggs, chicken or pork, and a whole universe opens up. It's very rare that I ever cook red meat anymore, just because there's so many recipes that don't make use of it. My favorite fast food restaurant is Pollo Tropical. Their franchise has 140 locations in South Florida. Most of their menu is rice, beans, vegetables, salad, roast chicken, and roast pork. The white rice and black beans with sauteed onions is delicious enough (and big enough) to be a meal in itself. The fried plantains are like savory candy. It's healthy[ish], fast, and definitely not typical American fare. Yet it won't work outside of Florida, because Americans think rice and beans equals "mexican" food. American culture simply hasn't incorporated foreign cuisines in a way that makes them actually tasty. If it's not smothered in cheese or bacon, they don't want it. It took an unbelievable combination of luck and grit for one woman to introduce America to French cuisine, allowing home cooks to stretch past the bland, canned staples of the 1960's. We have a lot more variety in restaurants today, but the home cook is still left with garbage "Americanized" recipes you find on Google Search. We need a new revolution in home cooking to introduce the people to meatless dishes, and we need restaurants (especially fast food) to push them outside the home too. Finally, we're gonna need to clamp down on meat. There's no way around it. As long as animals can be farmed so cheaply that a few pounds of meat costs $5 or less, people will not stop buying it and restaurants will not stop selling it. Just like we need to make cars less convenient in city centers to emphasize bikes, buses and trains, we need to make meat less convenient.
  • throwaway290 4y ago
    Spot on. Safety also matters, US meat industry is really strictly controlled and paradoxically it's safer to eat meat than veggies, especially fresh like a salad. It'd be tough to solve, this. No one would vote to remove meat controls but comparable controls over pesticide/soil/cleanness would be unpopular too as they'd increase prices and make veg tougher to sell.
• ggm 4y ago
  Like "I can't believe it's not butter" the premise over-promised and under-delivered. I totally could believe it wasn't butter btw.
• slavboj 4y ago
  Restaurant menu and supermarket shelf space is expensive. Yet I almost never see it purchased at anything like what would justify the frequency - it's like it's offered out of pure politeness, like a decorative menorah at a "holiday celebration". Ofc it's not, the company has to be subsidizing it at effectively negative cost. Even in their 10K they keep their "promotional activities" confidential, but their "selling, general and administrative expenses" are 50% of the value of their actual cost of goods sold.
  • jxramos 4y ago
    It's sort of an irritation finding it lumped in the meat freezer section at Costco, it's like noise in my search space looking for the real stuff. It doesn't help that they try to simulate the visuals to appear the same as well. Many times I have looked at some packaging and thought "that looks like a good chicken nugget", but then quickly ascertain it's not a chicken nugget. I wouldn't mind if there was some distinct boundary labeling of the shelf to identify the cluster of products under a certain identity, it's just when the border isn't identified and the customer has to determine it each round that causes the friction. It has seemed to stabilize in our region to in this third left quadrant of the freezer but it shifts one or two columns left and right it feels like depending on the inventory coming in.
    • Vinnl 4y ago
      I mean, you can pretty much make the same argument about brands you don't like: they look similar to those by brands you do, and occupy the same shelf space. (And for chicken nuggets specifically, I'd be surprised if you could tell the difference, haha.)
      • jxramos 4y ago
        true, I think there's a basis for that. When you jump stores like enter a Sprouts freezer aisle you can get disarrayed from the unfamiliar brands and logos and all that and have to orient yourself first in those scenarios too at times.
• rahimnathwani 4y ago
  Back in the 1990s, Burger King had (in the UK at least) a really tasty 'Spicy Bean Burger'. I wonder what % of people would prefer, like I do, one of those, over beyond/impossible or similar?
• KingOfCoders 4y ago
  Contrary to many comments, being a vegetarian/mostly vegan (with a pause) for 15+ years, I do enjoy an artifical meat burger every second month. At McD in Germany they are out of stock too often though and I have to leave. Before artificial meat I had to forgo burgers, as I never liked veggie patties.
• woeirua 4y ago
  The new age meat substitutes are just too expensive. In my grocery store they cost 40% more than an equivalent amount of beef. Also, I kind of prefer a good veggie burger over an impossible burger. Let veggies be veggies and meat be meat.
• dathinab 4y ago
  One thing I'm seeing all the time is people approaching vegetarian food by removing the meat and adding something else instead. IMHO this is the wrong approach and hardly ever works well or relies on luxury products like beyond meat(1). The best vegetarian food I had eaten was such which was designed as vegetarian food, not as a dish with meat and then modified to somehow work. Pretty much the only times I ended up with vegetarian food which tasted disgusting was with meat replacement products. At the same time beyond meat isn't the only producer of meat replacement products, and you don't need massive international cooperation for them either. For example the local butcher around where I live has meat replacement products, self-made based on the recipe they licensed from another smallish non-international company. It doesn't taste like meat, but it tastes good and has properties similar but not quite like meat wrt. taste direction, consistency and texture so you can swap it in to get a quite different but still good tasting result (through it's not stake like, more pulled pork like, suited for dishes which need pulled pork or minced meat). (1): Now part of the reason why it is more expensive then meat is probably state subventions but on a pure resource level meat is much more resource intensive to produce then most vegetarian stuff.
  • mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
    Completely agree with you. I'm not a vegetarian at all and honestly most of my dinners are vegetarian anyway because half the time I'm just too lazy to deal with meat. Plenty of delicious cheese centered meals, for instance. Mac and cheese can be made in a million different ways. Sometimes I'll make my chicken rice and mushroom casserole but throw in legumes instead. Lots of great things to make with eggs for protein too. I've accidentally cut my meat consumption down drastically through sheer laziness, so I always find it puzzling that people make a fuzz about it.
  • pea 4y ago
    I was wondering this the other day when eating a saag paneer curry instead of my normal meat-based order: why would anyone go through the motions to have fake chicken when you have multitudes of vegetarian options which can be treated similarly to how we treat meat in cooking. Paneer is not 'trying to be chicken', but it can be put in a curry or fried, so can serve a similar purpose -- but is distinctly delicious in its own right!
• lettergram 4y ago
  By struggling… they mean >$1B in debt, a few hundred million in cash and a net cash flow of negative a few hundred million They’re beyond “well done” I’ll see myself out.
  • terminal_d 4y ago
    And still chugging along... methinks it's being pushed. Synthetic meat being "environmentally friendly" is the same as considering EVs environmentall friendly.
• cat_plus_plus 4y ago
  Food is not a startup company, people's tastes are shaped by their culture/religion, childhood favorites and decades in between. Expecting exponential growth is unrealistic how good the product is, and financial considerations quickly come into play once you run out of early adopters. Whoever is up to the challenge must prepare for a lot of patience, optimizing production on thin margins, tweaking product for different recipes and demographics and lots of advertisement and community outreach. Having the product on average grocery shelves is already amazing success for this category, now the hard work begins.
• brailsafe 4y ago
  I wonder if it's because it's disgusting????????
• shrubby 4y ago
  Meat subsidies are one huge reason for keeping meat prices too low. At least here that's the case. These vegan meat alternatives are naturally more effort to make than the original veggies but still cheaper than meat. But the subsidies fuck this up.
• pmarreck 4y ago
  Impossible Burgers are the best-tasting non-meat burgers I've had.
• Willish42 4y ago
  This post is crowded with responses from people explaining why they hate Beyond meat FWIW, I've always liked Beyond Meat as a "good enough" substitution for a beef burger that's easy to prepare that is close in texture to a real burger - if you use a burger sauce and cheese like most recipes for non-vegans do, it tastes pretty close. I even liked it so much I'd order it at restaurants wherever available and bought a few shares since I figured they'd do well. I've tried Impossible Burgers too (both prepared by others and myself), and I don't like that it has hemoglobin in it and for some reason it's more in the uncanny valley than Beyond meat is for me - Beyond Meat is just different enough that it doesn't taste to me like moldy beef the way Impossible Burgers seem to. What _did_ eventually get me to stop making Beyond Burgers is that the fat and sodium content is as bad or worse than just plain regular beef. Reducing red meat consumption to once a month or so achieves basically the same benefits, and occasional red meat consumption + no more frequent beyond meat burgers is healthier in the long run than what I was doing before. I think an under-appreciated advantage to the veggie and black bean burger options out there is they tend to be way better w.r.t. fat and sodium, and taste just as good once you give up on the "almost beef" taste of these new-wave alternatives, but Beyond Meat _did_ work for a few people out there and just never tweaked their product enough to seriously compete with cheaper alternatives as inflation has gotten worse.
  • ghostpepper 4y ago
    What do you see as the benefit of reducing red meat to once a month? There was a widely-publicized article recently questioning some "well-established" science that had, previously for decades, linked red meat to higher rates of heart disease, etc.
    • Double_a_92 4y ago
      I don't think it's about health, it's about not having to unnecessarily farm cows.
    • hcks 4y ago
      Could you or someone link this article please? Thanks
• DuckFeathers 4y ago
• frankzander 4y ago
  Since the rise of Beyond and the whole hype of this lab-grown alternative products, something has really changed (at least here in Germany): There are a lot of good tasting meat-like products on the market and they improved very well over the last couple of years. They improved in texture (IMHO a completely underrated factor) and flavor. I mostly buy steaks and sausages for BBQ. Nowadays there are some differences in taste and texture but when I was beginning eating only vegetarian (20+ years) there was nearly nothing on the market and that, what was on the market, was disgusting. But I have to admit ... the best products are products which don't want to be meat replacements. That are well flavored (with herbs and smoke) tofu products from one german company/brand. They are too expensive for day to day use like the most other meat replacements but if I want to spend my money on that than I buy the really good stuff. Vegan/Vegetarian has, depending on the intention behind this decision, often a health related reason. Meat alternatives are often highly processed food which is not healthy at all. Proteins from peas, soy, mushrooms or whatever remind me more at dog food with hydrolyzed protein content for allergic dogs ;-) The replacements may or may not taste good ... at the end they are not as healthy as self cooked food.
• friend_and_foe 4y ago
  You don't see meat eaters trying to make their broccoli taste like hamburger patties. Vegetables are supposed to taste like vegetables. They're good without needing to be processed. Nobody wants to buy uncanny valley meat substitute, except as a novelty. And novelty business models work, but these guys misread their market and thought it could be a daily meat replacement, for a group of people that don't eat meat, or a group of people that eat real meat, not the fake stuff. Of course they failed.
  • kuschku 4y ago
    Considering Rügenwalder, one of Germany's largest meat processing companies, managed to pivot to primarily selling veggie meat replacements, and grow their business at that, your conclusion is wrong. There's definitely a niche for this, and it's large enough to build a multi billion dollar company. And if it can work in the country that's home to the Currywurst, then it can work everywhere.
    • friend_and_foe 4y ago
      There is a niche for it, I'm not saying there's not. All I'm saying is they went about marketing it wrong because they misread the market and targeted the wrong demographic. Meat eaters dont want it, vegetarians don't want it, it's a novelty item, that's your niche.
      • kuschku 4y ago
        > Meat eaters dont want it, vegetarians don't want it But that's obviously wrong, vegetarians and meat eaters are buying it én masse, the product is clearly a success, at least in Germany. And not just once, but repeatedly, again and again.
• Double_a_92 4y ago
  I try to eat less meat, but to be honest I haven't really found a "plant-based" product that actually tastes good. At best it works for products that are highly processed, and over-spiced anyway. But e.g. things like minced meat alternative just taste awful, no matter which brand. I'd rather just put more veggies in my food, or mushrooms, or more natural things like tofu and spice it myself... I see those plant-based products only as an alternative to very cheap, low quality meat. E.g. Id rather eat a plant based "chicken" nugget, than one made from meat scraps full of bone splitters and cartillage.
• willhinsa 4y ago
  GOOD
• julienreszka 4y ago
  I read somewhere in French press that some fake food company allegedly put melanin in their products to trick the FDA, that the peas they use for their fake food are from China and that those peas are full of poisonous chemicals like Bisphenol A.
  • Double_a_92 4y ago
    First, what is "fake food"? Second, why would a company try to get caught on purpose?
    • julienreszka 4y ago
      Food is composed of naturally occurring ingredients, whereas fake food is made from synthetic ingredients. Food is typically healthier, fresher, and more nutrient-dense than fake food. Fake food is often made to look like real food, but it contains artificial flavors, colors, and other additives that are not found in real food. I don't think they would try to get caught but they could try to pass the tests to get a FDA approval.
• twblalock 4y ago
  Good! Intellectual dishonesty and self-deception of all kinds is wrong and weak, and it should be stopped. Fake meat is just as dumb as those CVT transmissions that have fake shift points, or setting your watch 10 minutes ahead so you will never be late. If you think eating meat is wrong, then stop doing it. It's a defensible moral position. But don't try to trick yourself into thinking you are still doing it -- instead, have the mental strength and willpower to admit to yourself that you are eating vegetables. Maybe even learn how to cook them in a way that does not impersonate meat.
  • G4BB3R 4y ago
    They are not targeted for vegans, the huge majority of customer are curious people that wants to transition into vegetarian/vegan diet and need the help of plant based meats.
• mmaunder 4y ago
  Make sure you sniff Beyond before eating it. I had Beyond mince that was a couple days away from the sell by date almost knock me off my feet when I opened the pack. It doesn’t go off like meat does. It smells like hydrogen sulfide.
• kohlerm 4y ago
  Maybe chicken meat is just easier to replicate with plants? I was really surprised about how good https://www.eatplanted.com/ https://www.eatplanted.com/ is (I am not a vegan).
  • fullstackchris 4y ago
    Somehow I'm not surprised that I had to come this far down to find a reference to Planted. Nowadays if one doesn't know the meme term involved (in this case plant based meats directly means BeYoNd MeAt), there are no other examples that come to mind. In fact, however, there are _plenty_ of plant-based companies doing just fine (like Planted). I'm a fan of nearly all of their products and have watched their growth over the past few years, which has been nothing short of incredible. I wouldn't worry about plant-based "meats", as the tech improves and we bring another 2+ billion onto the planet, they'll find their market share more and more.
• dcj4 4y ago
  https://youtu.be/iiui110FlZM?t=847 https://youtu.be/iiui110FlZM?t=847
• ben_w 4y ago
  I can't say I'm surprised. Before I left the UK, I regularly enjoyed bean burgers and Quorn burgers. I haven't seen either since I moved to Germany, but I have seen plenty of other meat alternatives including this, and none of them are quite as good as the Quorn or the bean burgers.
• piyushpr134 4y ago
  Only thing plant based in that meat is that it comes from a factory aka a plant.
• yalogin 4y ago
  All the plant based companies try to cater to the meat eating folk. I don’t know if it’s a winning strategy. There are tons of possibilities with vegetarian patties, they are super tasty and flavorful. I would eat them if catered as vegetarian but with the same protein content as meat.
• didibus 4y ago
  I like them for how easy they are to cook. I tend to eat them once a week. I alternate my protein sources: fish, seafood, chicken, beyond/impossible, egg/dairy, turkey. I avoid pork and beef most of the time, except on occasions. In that sense they're a nice addition to my selection, I find they have a unique flavor to them, but most often they're the protein that I cook when I'm lazy, because of how they don't need any prep.
• yCloser 4y ago
  I'm a huge fun of Beyond Burger. It's awesome! ...but it is so expensive. In my country (EU) it's easily 2x the price of real meat. And sells frozen in packs of 10. And there is ONE store that sells it. At reduced price, packs of 2 would be a hit. Like this it's "yeah I tried it once, it was good... nope, not going to buy again"
  • fullstackchris 4y ago
    All a matter of time... the same exact sentiment was once said for flat screen TVs, laptops, cell phones, etc.
• papito 4y ago
  The goal should be to eat HUMANE meat if you want to eat meat but can't for ethical reasons. When I was a kid, my gram grams in Ukraine treated our animals like family members. That cow and hog dinner cooked for them smelled so good I wanted to plant my face in it myself. My grandfather even built a sun deck for the pigs. A sun deck. We wanted them to be HAPPY and PLUMPY, and when it was time to get the household through the winter, the dispatching was done quickly. Humane meat should be scarce and expensive. The problem is that it's hard to know whom to trust with the claims of humanely raised stock.
  • AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
    > The goal should be to eat HUMANE meat if you want to eat meat but can't for ethical reasons. To a lot of us, it will never be considered humane to kill something that is perfectly healthy for no other reason than that we want to eat something that tastes a certain way. > When I was a kid, my gram grams in Ukraine treated our animals like family members Think about this for a minute.
    • papito 4y ago
      This is called "sustenance". They are not your pets. You treat the animals well because they literally feed you through the cold months. People don't understand that in many parts of the world not eating meat is a huge luxury.
      • AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
        You didn't make an argument from the perspective of needing to eat meat to survive though, did you?
      • micromacrofoot 4y ago
        That's a big goalpost shift. You went from "treat animals like family members" to "some people need meat to survive" those are entirely different arguments.
• dustedcodes 4y ago
  I married a Vegetarian and I converted to a mostly Vegetarian diet myself and I have made a very real realisation over the last 10 years: The one group that really hates Vegans more than meat eaters are Vegetarians. Veganism is making being Vegetarian increasingly harder. It's so hard to find a Vegetarian pizza nowadays with real cheese. It's either meaty or fully Vegan. Same for burgers. Vegetarians don't want to eat a shitty meat like patty. They want a Vegetarian burger, made of a bean patty, mushroom or some other vegetables which is not some form of dystopian processed food. Unfortunately Veganism has pushed all real Vegetarian burgers off the menus and repalced them with Beyond meat. Look, I don't mind Beyond meat, I tried it and thought it was nice, but currently it costs as much as a real prime cut of beef which doesn't make sense to me and doesn't taste nearly as good. Our (Vegetarian) household actively refuses overpriced Vegan food because it starves menus of good creative Veggie options and therefore is a net harm at the moment.
  • ashes-of-sol 4y ago
  • jdcaron 4y ago
    Vegans are and were as happy as vegetarians to eat non-processed vegetables patties. I could push this point further by stating that a high percentage of vegans are turned off by the meatiness of those fake meat products. Those who pushed or asked for the product are companies and clients with an environmentalist motivation. It also appears that the product is easier to manage for restaurants which is also a reason why most restaurants are picking this product. The meat-like is really just an industrial product designed to please the largest crowd as possible which also includes vegans. So please, don’t say it’s the vegans that pushed all “real” options off the menu because the situation is much more complex than that. “Veganism is making being Vegetarian increasingly harder.” This is a bold claim. Those people you met needs to chill because the problem you described is light years of being a “real” problem. Adding or removing ingredients is possible in most restaurants and quite easy: “Please can you substitute the absence of cheese or the vegan cheese for real cheese.”
    • 4y ago
• lynx23 4y ago
  Beyond was never good, pretty obvious they were trying to ride a wave. Turns out true veggie people are not stupid and tasteless enough for this con job to turn a real profit. Good, there is still hope in the world!
• mikkelam 4y ago
  as a vegan, my only gripe with beyond meat products are the prices. If it was cheaper I'd eat a lot more
• t0bia_s 4y ago
  So now we will get catastrophic articles about meat trying to sell plant-based meat as alternative. This "we have problem, so consume this..." pattern in all kind topics is obvious "divide and conquer". Especially when politics come in. I'm curious when anti-plant-meaters will became enemies of the planet.
• urbandw311er 4y ago
  Is there a smear campaign going on against BM? Noticed a few of these stories — I just can’t work out whether the stories are causing their issues or vice versa!
• dragonelite 4y ago
  Im a meat eater, but you can wake me up anytime if some good Indian vegetarian food is being served. I don't think its necessary to call chemical slop "meat" but okey.
• syzygyhack 4y ago
  Lot of nonsense in the comments, absolutely nothing wrong with the taste of Beyond. Problem is that it is outrageously expensive and the market has become saturated with plenty of more cost-effective alternatives, many of which taste even better. There was a time when Beyond was the only really "good" option, that is simply not the case anymore. When I see those 2-packs of Beyond Burgers on the shelves in the supermarket, they are marked down 40%, and they are still more expensive than a 4 pack from other brands. Makes zero sense to buy them.
  • talldan 4y ago
    I agree. I'd also add the fact that much of the world is experiencing a cost of living crisis, and luxury products are often the first to be cut in difficult times.
• herbst 4y ago
  So I rarely eat processed food at all. More often than not that slightly upsets our stomaches. Impossible, beyond and whatever all the brands are called did all heavily upset my and my partners stomach so far. Just the same ugly feeling like after a burger king visit but for longer. No issue with black bean, Quorn or veggie patties. No issue with actual meat. We aren't picky.
• Rob_Polding 4y ago
  Maybe the industry will realize that most vegetarians and vegans find anything like meat revolting. They much prefer vegetarian meals that are not ultra-processed and still resemble the vegetable used to make them. Personally, the taste and look of beyond meat make me urge and feel like vomiting. It looks and tastes too much like a dead animal. I never miss the taste of meat, in fact, I hate the idea of eating anything that used to be alive.
  • oblio 4y ago
    Even in one of the countries with the highest percentage of vegetarians (India; though you can argue that poverty has an impact, since we know that meat consumption goes up with revenue), vegetarians and vegans only make up about 30% of the population. In the rest of the world it's generally max 10%, if not 5% or lower. So for any of these companies go make it big, they need to cater to the 90%+ of people who like meat.
    • valarauko 4y ago
      While 30% of Indians are strictly vegetarian, I would suggest that probably another 40% are largely vegetarian, only eating meat occasionally. Growing up in a major city in India, we ate maybe a single chicken based meal a week, and this was largely the norm in my social cohort. While a major reason was definitely money (poultry and red meat is ridiculously expensive in comparison to the vegetarian staples), it's also just cultural. My family grew up seeing meat as a special treat, and most of our meat dishes are very rich and can only be eaten occasionally.
      • oblio 4y ago
        True, but let's revisit those cultural norms in 60 years, when most of India is middle class according to developed country levels :-)
        • valarauko 4y ago
          Sure, we are definitely eating more meat, simply because we can afford it.
• SilverBirch 4y ago
  I think people are missing the forest for the trees here. Beyond Meat had a mad run up in the same way that loads of companies had a mad run up in the ZIRP environment, and now the real questions are being asked: What's the actual TAM, what's the long term margins, what are the competitors in this space. Their market cap was like $7Bn, compared to Kraft Heinz at 45Bn. In the long term, do plant based meat alternatives form anything other than another type of food in the existing market? No. Do BYND have a monopoly on plant based meat alternatives? Also no. So why would BYND trade like anything other than comparable food companies? On top of that, does BYND really seem likely to be a independent company long term considering the other consolidation we see in the market? This is a market where on the supply side you have Kraft Heinz, Mondelez, Neslte - massive consolidation. On the demand side you have Walmart. What does that mean? It means it needs to either grow massively to the point where it can be independent, or the price needs to come down to the point where an acquisition is attractive. We're probably reaching the latter of those two right now. It could be that plant based meats in general grow to became atleast as big as the meat industry, but the likelihood of that being reflected in BYND's stock price is slim.
  • JeremyNT 4y ago
    I think you are on the money. Despite the article's headline (and anecdotes) implying a broader downturn in the sector, I'm inclined to write this off to Beyond expectations being completely out of touch with reality, and possibly some mismanagement / marketing problems specific to Beyond. This statement from Impossible (which is included in the article) directly contradicts the "plant based meats are failing" subtext the article seems to want to push otherwise: > “We’re not experiencing anything like what Beyond Meat has reported or some of the other brands in the space,” Keely Sulprizio, a spokeswoman for Impossible Foods, said in an email. “Quite the opposite: We’re seeing hypergrowth, with over 60 percent year-over-year dollar sales growth in retail alone.” > The IRI data show that while volume sales of Impossible ground meat and faux burger patties were down slightly, volumes of other categories, including frozen faux meat and chicken, soared.
• sfusato 4y ago
  I think what companies who want to cater to vegetarians and vegans should do is focus more on providing plant based foods that AREN'T pretending to be meat. I'm not a vegan, never have been, but I quite like a lot of vegetarian foods. But I tried a beyond burger once just out of curiosity and it just... smelled wrong. There was something about it that put me off immediately on a primal level. My guess is that sales surged initially as curious non-vegans tried the fake meat, only for most to realize that it wasn't nearly as tasty and go back to actual meat, leaving the main customer base as vegans trying their best to convince themselves that no it tastes good actually. Providing options such as grilled vegetables that are actually super tasty is a way better idea than just trying to mold weird processed plant matter into a vague approximation of "meat".
• Traubenfuchs 4y ago
  "Meat alternatives" are highly processed plant waste glued together with countless chemicals and too much salt, often more expensive than average meat. I am all for a less meaty diet, but those trendy lifestyle companies like Beyond are not the solution.
• cik 4y ago
  IMHO this is the same sort of issue that hydrogen as a car fuel has. It's a stop-gap, interim measure that people hope will succeed prior to full bore measures like lab-based meat. But, it's more than that. It's also economic. These things cost more than meat themselves. They also cost more than other vegetarian friendly (and tastier, but that's subjective), patties. Even worse, they've trying to drive up consumer cost of alternative burgers in general. I can either spend 32 NIS on a 4 pack of really good vegan burgers, or I can spend 24-30 NIS on a 2 pack of "plant based meat burgers". Heck, they actually cost ~25% more than meat burgers here. I may have personal reasons to not like them. But from a purely economic point of view, they just don't fit here. Interestingly the data shows that they also don't sell here.
• notyourday 4y ago
  Looks like no one tried doing Venn diagram of people who think "I do not want to eat meat" and "I do not want to eat processed food".
• sschueller 4y ago
  There are better alternatives[1] than Beyond Meat at least here in Switzerland. There are several competitors that create much better tasting non-meat products without any of the additives that Beyond Meat uses, locally made and sustainable. Beyond Meat spent an enormous amount of money to have their foot everywhere but if your product is mediocre a better products will take your place. Also very interesting is that different countries have different priorities when it comes to such food items. The planted CEO stated that it was quite difficult to enter Germany because price was a much bigger factor than taste. [1] https://en.eatplanted.com/ https://en.eatplanted.com/
• usrbinbash 4y ago
  The best meat-alternative for me is still fried seitan; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seitan#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seitan#History
• drakonka 4y ago
  I really like Beyond Meat, though it's not as good as some of the other meat replacement options I can find at the grocery stores around here. I also think of all of these meat replacement options as junk food and not replacement for actual whole vegetables. There's a fast food chain called "Max" that has veggie patties. When I tasted their burger for the first time I thought they might have messed up my order and given me real meat, the taste and texture seemed so realistic. But I hadn't eaten real red meat in around 20 years, and didn't trust my own taste, so I got my meat-eating boyfriend to try it. He was also confused and suspicious, so he went to the cashier to confirm that this was definitely not meat. I was pretty blown away! One thing I thought was cool was, a few years ago, seeing a plant-based patty + bacon burger. At that time these replacements were only really marketed for people not wanting to eat meat at all, so at first I was confused about whether the bacon is vegetarian, too. But no - the bacon was real. After the initial double take I realized how cool it is, and how these kinds of partial-options can help normalize eating _less_ meat even if you still want real bacon (for example). For the long term though, I'm hopeful for lab-grown meat becoming a more common and accessible option.
• Avlin67 4y ago
  i would rather eat a proper diy organic soup rather then a veggie burgger….
• thinkmcfly 4y ago
  I never understood why their patties are so thick. That's a thing you do with high quality meat. They should have aimed for the masses instead of gourmet. If people are skeptical of a new food why would you use a form factor that is only used with trusted meats?
• deleted 4y ago
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• panick21_ 4y ago
  What I don't get here is that this really is only about beef. Chicken and Pork isn't actually that bad for the environment as they are very efficient production wise. So if you want eat a burger and don't feel bad, just eat a pork or chicken burger and you should be fine. For me, Beyond Meat was pretty terrible when I tried it. Maybe if you put it in burger with many other things its not as bad.
• kar1181 4y ago
  'Plant-based' is such a nice way to hand wave away just how terrible these meat-replacements are. There is nothing natural about it at all and it's a shame as it's pushed vegetarian offerings off the table, options that are from what I can see healthier and more accessible to a broader consumer base.
• chris123 4y ago
  Is anybody surprised at this, except maybe people who get their news, opinions, thoughts, beliefs from mainstream institutions and their woke ideologies and agendas?
• Madmallard 4y ago
  Concotions of processed vegetables is going to be inferior to practically anything else that isn't that.
• lifeisstillgood 4y ago
  At some point we are spending millions and millions to cater to a specific cultural niche - India has 1.5 billion people whose idea of home cooked food isnt meat and certainly not a burger, China and Nigeria pretty much the same. Yes we need to stop farming animals (climate, space, cruelty, cost) - but there are alternatives. Edit: yes vegetable dishes are prepared in the home usually by the wife and tend to take hours - so the convenience aspect plays a huge role as society changes - but ready meals are not the only solution - humans used to be good at social - we might need to relearn how to design our cities and discover our neighbours
• treypitt 4y ago
  Why am I not surprised the vaunted NYT failed to do basic research that might contradict their narrative. They dont even mention the bombshell story from last week regarding a whistleblower complaint about Beyond factory conditions: mold, bacteria, and string found in the meat. They even lied about being inspected by Pennsylvania state officials but havent faced any punishment. see https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2022-11-21/beyond-meat-plants-dirty-conditions-revealed https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2022-11-21/beyond-mea...
  • iwillbenice 4y ago
• incomingpain 4y ago
  I was first person to get a beyond burger from a&w in my city. Compared to traditional veggie burgers it was amazing. I can't believe anyone would go back to veggie burgers now the beyond burgers exist. I assume the other brands are similar. I dont care at all the beyond burgers are everything nutritionists claim is bad for you. I know nutritionists are outright lying. Personally however, it didn't hit the threshold of being better than meat. So that was the last time I had beyond meat. In other news, FDA approved lab grown meat. Chicken is first at bat.
• zecg 4y ago
  Speaking as a vegan, I really don't want food that imitates the taste of meat and I will refuse to eat anything that's been prepared on the same griddle or using the same utensils as meat.
  • leowbattle 4y ago
    Do you mean if the utensils have been used to prepare meat since last being washed, or if the utensils were ever used to prepare meat?
  • valarauko 4y ago
    Pretty much how fast food outlets in India work - the kitchens are divided into vegetarian and non-vegetarian sections, with separate utensils, fryers - everything. You can walk into a KFC in India and get vegetarian options that were cooked in an entirely vegetarian section.
• osigurdson 4y ago
  Seems weird to me to insist that the human culinary apex is the burger and we just gotta replicate it sans animal product. It is hilarious that billions in R&D have been poured into such a ridiculous cause.
• AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
  Dear apparently-f'ing-everybody: Yes, there are plenty of delicious vegetarian dishes that don't require any kind of fake meat. We know. Please shut up since this isn't what fake-meat products solve. Fake-meat products are for when I have meat cravings, when I go to a restaurant that doesn't normally do vegetarian cuisine, and ditto cultural events like cookouts.
• WeylandYutani 4y ago
  Economic recession. This hipster food is not cheap. We live in Aldi and Action times.
• jxdxbx 4y ago
  This stuff tastes ok but if you buy it at the store to cook at home, it smells like dog food.
• i_am_proteus 4y ago
  Strong tangent here, but y'all vegetarians in the Bay Area ought try Dad's Luncheonette in Half Moon Bay for their mushroom sandwich, a vegetarian's alternative to the hamburger sandwich. I got no affiliation with Dad's aside from thinking that they make a couple of fine sandwiches, and the mushroom sandwich is a great example of a vegetarian hamburger "alternative" that doesn't try to be a hamburger but tastes real good. I'm omnivorous but like that mushroom sandwich sometimes (and the hamburger sandwich they sell is probably the best sandwich in the state, so that's saying something).
• grumple 4y ago
  I regularly buy and eat Beyond Sausage. Not a fan of their other products due to texture/taste. Just like with other food companies, I like some products, dislike others. Nobody should be treating food stocks like growth stocks imo. Food doesn't scale that way and the margins aren't great.
• lucideer 4y ago
  I don't think demand for Beyond will ever hit zero but I do think recent demand seems to have been temporary & can see it falling into a niche. In the past, vegetarianism/veganism was mostly the reserve of activist types, dogmatic in their approach, with little interest in fake meats (though they existed, demand & competition was low enough for them to be pretty poor substitutes). Then, more recently, there was a big trend of vegetarianism becoming more mainstream, with many people trialling it: during that trial, there's naturally a lot of reliance on products like Beyond. Similarly, with the mainstreaming of it all, many old-timer vegetarians become more comfortable/open with liking/trying meaty things & also as the product quality/variety improves, many old-timer vegetarians will be naturally curious excited to test new options. So this all results in big spikes in demand for Beyond. Now I think we're entering a phase of (a) long-term dedicated vegetarians have tried it out & the novelty has disappeared and (b) "trial" vegetarians are settling into a "flexitarian" / low-meat diet, where they just eat real meat when they want to, but do their best to reduce consumption. So the demand drops. There's still going to be the odd "trial" vegetarian who likes meat but stayed strict & there's probably some old-timers who developed a taste for it, but it's a much lower % of people than at the peak of novel interest. --- There's also a few notable exceptions where new substitutes have succeeded in gaining a culturally iconic status - e.g. the Greggs sausages in the UK. These will probably retain some popularity I guess, but they're very much the exception.
  • neuronic 4y ago
    The number of vegetarians/vegans in Germany is strongly increasing [1]. The reasons vary and range from the horrific and inexcusable environmental impact of mass meat production to simple ethics. I personally have been convinced by my conscience and empathy. I make an effort to reduce (and hopefully stop) eating meat after witnessing the insane cruelty we subject smart, intelligent and emotional animals to. The cognitive dissonance required to eat tons of pigs but on the other hand love dogs and cats is just weird. I mean if you get the chance, check out some cows and pigs. They're awesome and form a bond with you. So hearing pigs scream in pain from CO2 suffocation is absolutely psychotic to me. Their cries burned themselves into my mind. Especially considering that most of them probably never saw the sun or could ever lay down in the grass to doze off... :( For me, eating meat doesn't justify this pure horror. However, I still make a distinction between this sort of meat and, say, animals that had happy free roam years on a farm. I get a lot of heat from vegans but it doesn't matter. ANY reduction in the consumption of live animal products is a positive thing and there will always be political radicals. So in the end, I find myself in your category (b) at the moment with severely reduced meat consumption. Beyond Meat temporarily helps to bridge the gap, it's akin to the nicotine bandaid, only this time it's for the meat addiction. But in that way the subsutition products are temporary and the majority of vegan/vegetarian food we cook is way tastier than the ready made substitutes. [1] https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23273338/germany-less-meat-plant-based-vegan-vegetarian-flexitarian https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23273338/germany-less-mea...
• Existenceblinks 4y ago
  I think meat mimicking is a wrong approach. When I was 12-15, my grandma made a lot of plant-based menu, I don't even know what it is back then, so I don't know it's supposed to be meat alternative. It's just one strange menu that has a good taste. I mean, should they try create a new naming system, stop advertising as anything related to meat at all. Create a whole new menu set, they don't even need burger! Look around the world of feed, mediterranean, italian, portuguese, south east asia etc. Plant-based chelf should be the whole new study as well. The current plant-based industry is so mediocre or too early.
• thorin 4y ago
  I'm surprised we've got this many comments without anyone mentioning Soylent Green. SPOILER Soylent Green is both the name of a 1973 science fiction film and of a wafer-like food product in the film. The film is a police procedural set in the future, based on the 1966 novel Make Room! Make Room! The food is a processed protein ration made of human beings and distributed to an unsuspecting populace.
• deliriumchn 4y ago
  I think its a positioning problem: "alternative" meat is not good enough to substitute real meat + some people just dislike meat and its taste completely, not just concerned about animal cruelty etc. Vegetarian food can be very tasty and beautiful and it does not have to be a substitute or an imitator of meat and other non-vegan food
• O__________O 4y ago
  >> “on average, plant-based meat is 2x as expensive as beef, more than 4x as expensive as chicken, and more than 3x as expensive as pork per pound.” Source: - https://gfi.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Reducing-the-price-of-alternative-proteins_GFI_2022.pdf https://gfi.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Reducing-the-pric...
  • omginternets 4y ago
    At the risk of stating the obvious, “impossible” meats are about IP and high-margin products in a notoriously low-margin sector. This is capitalism, not ecology.
• UltraViolence 4y ago
  Veganism should be outlawed. Everyone should eat meat, period. I'm wary of female vegans since I believe pregnant women should eat meat to deliver a healthy baby. When she's not pregnant she can stop eating meat for all I care.
  • efields 4y ago
    Aw man. Sorry you have no friends.
    • UltraViolence 4y ago
      I do. But few vegans.
  • micromacrofoot 4y ago
    I'm not sure if anyone's ever been frank with you, but this comment is a colossal red flag... it's not only incorrect, but quite aggressive about it.
• efields 4y ago
  BM is probably something that should have been acquired by a larger food company. Their product line is really limited for a public corporation.
• carbonatedmilk 4y ago
  My 7 year old son is vegetarian - Neither of his parents are (although we've always tried to be awake to the ethical implications of what we eat) When I asked him why he'd gone so all-in on vegetarianism, he said "Daddy, animals are my friends. And you don't eat your friends" The little bastard derived the whole thing from first principles, with no input from his parents. I've tried to use the vegetable-based mince alternatives in pasta sauce, and we're always really unsatisfied with the results. He much prefers lentils / tofu / tempeh and frankly so do we. We're in the target demographic for these products, and I can tell you: THe problem isn't the price, the branding or the level of ethical awareness. It's the product! It's a lousy substitute for the meat-based alternative, and it doesn't even stack up well against the raw ingredients they're derived from, which have the advantages of being cheaper and tasting better.
• snapcaster 4y ago
  My mom and sisters are vegetarian and they haven't really liked this "wave" of vegan burgers because they taste and feel like meat (which they don't like). From talking to them, they preferred the old school veggie burgers that didn't attempt to replicate meat 1:1 in attributes
• pibechorro 4y ago
  Good they are nothing but refined seed oils which is junk food. Eat a mushroom or bean burger instead, duh! Go woke, go broke.
  • snapcaster 4y ago
    Does "woke" just mean "thing I don't like now"? In what way is a soybean oil burger substitute "woke"?
• Eumenes 4y ago
  Oh no, what will we do without more processed garbage?
• rflec028 4y ago
  Good.
• theknocker 4y ago
• lemax 4y ago
  Unfortunately beyond / impossible meats were just mimicked by all the incumbent meat alternative brands and it turns out what they are doing isn't that special or proprietary. Most people eating them are not hardcore vegans / plant based folks, tried them for novelty and switched back to beef. People don't want to eat this regularly and when we do, there are 10 brands on the shelf with it on offer and it's a race to the bottom.
• lupire 4y ago
  What I've noticed is that plant meat got very popular over a few years, and then price increased 50-100% during Covid, and then plant meat got less popular. There might not be any story here besides inflation and Covid supppy chain problems.
• partiallypro 4y ago
  The major problem is that they lose money on every burger sold. They have negative net margins. That was never sustainable. It's not quite like a scaling business ala Amazon where you can eventually stop expanding and collect profits. Their entire production process is cost intensive, even if the marginal cost shrinks over time, it is still a loss. So, this was/is no surprise.
• drewg123 4y ago
  I'm vegan. I became vegan because my partner is vegan, and I started eating vegan food (like Beyond) when I was at her house, out of respect. I gradually transitioned to a non-strict vegan diet for health reasons (my Dr. said she's never seen such a turnaround in Cholesterol w/o statins), and then became fully vegan for environmental and animal welfare reasons. None of this would have been possible without meat substitutes like Beyond and Impossible, as I would not have had the discipline to stick with the diet. I've had previous generation veggie burgers which tasted like fried cardboard. I think these nasty tasting products of the past have left people with the impression that vegan food just tastes horrible, and vegans have to be crazy to eat them (Boca, I'm looking at you). I certainly expected the worst the first time I had a Beyond burger, and I was very pleasantly surprised. I even evangelized it to a guy at the next table who was asking the waiter if it was good. I think once more people try these products, they'll really take off. I think part of the problem with Beyond uptake is the way that these fast food restaurants test their products, and the way they package them. These chains are national, and they assume that demand for products will be similar across locations, but that's just not true. Like it or not, Vegans live in mostly "Blue" metro areas, not fly-over states. So if you're McDonalds, and you test your products in Dayton OH, or middle-of-nowhere Alabama, then you're setting them up to fail. They should be tested in LA, SF, NYC, Miami, Chicago, etc, and they should gradually spread out from there. The other problem is how fast food chains package their plant based products so that vegans can't eat them. The Impossible Whopper is an example. Since I'm vegan, I can't eat eggs and dairy, which means I need to order the Whopper w/o cheese and mayo. This means that I almost never get an Impossible Whopper, since I like cheese (and mayo) on my burgers. I'll instead order from a local vegan place that actually offers vegan mayo and cheese. Similarly, McDonalds in the EU has a plant-based chicken sandwich, but the BREAD contains dairy. So I have to order it w/o the bun, meaning I almost never order it, and instead order something fully vegan from a local place. There's a Qdoba just down the street that has an Impossible Burrito. But again, no vegan cheese, so I tend to order from a smaller local place. My feeling is that once these 2 things are corrected, vegan meat alternatives will take off. I talked to a grocery store manager a few weeks ago in a middle-sized US city (Richmond, VA), and he said that Beyond products are flying off the shelves, and often backordered. After that conversation, I invested in Beyond stock. I figure if they are doing well in Richmond, then there is a huge market opening up.
• shoulderfake 4y ago
• fairity 4y ago
  Will it eventually be possible to use technology to make plant-based meat taste identical to real meat? Yes. Will it be cheaper to manufacture this future plant-based meat than real meat? Very likely yes. Then, it seems obvious that eventually everyone eating meat will switch to plant-based meat. The real question is if BYND will survive this technology shift. Whoever does will have at least tens of billions in revenue (and be worth some multiple of that) given that the current size of the meat industry is $1.3t (1% market share = $13b). At a $800m market cap, the stock seems cheap.
• quitit 4y ago
  Every week I try a different meat-substitute product just to see if I like them. I keep visiting supermarkets which claim to sell Beyond and I’m yet to find one. The other issue with many meat subs: they usually have insanely high saturated fat content. At least if replacing beef, make it a healthier alternative.
  • julienreszka 4y ago
    Wow that's some dedication. What are you hoping for exactly doing this? Are you not scared it will likely plain poison you eventually trying all those experimental stuff?
    • quitit 4y ago
      hacker news has really gone downhill.
      • julienreszka 4y ago
        Are you trying to insult me?
• 1024core 4y ago
  I am a former meat-eater. I became vegetarian for ethical reasons, and I don't really miss meat much (except for the very occasional chicken wings craving). A couple of years ago I was at a restaurant (Beach Chalet in GGP in SF) and ordered their "veggie burger". It was one of those Beyond Meat/Impossible burgers. One bite and I recoiled in horror: did they give me real meat instead of the veggie option? Now, it has happened in the past that I have been given meat when I specifically ordered something vegetarian. For example: "beef burrito" at a taco place when I wanted a "bean burrito". It brought back those bad memories and I could not take another bite. The problem here is a marketing one. Beyond and Impossible have a market, but it's those people who would just like to lower their meat consumption. _It is not the veggie burger eating hippie!_ By forcing us vegetarians to consume these fake burgers, the industry is embracing a lose-lose proposition: most vegetarians want nothing to do with these because of the taste, and most meat eaters would rather just eat the real thing.
• tohnjitor 4y ago
  These companies are failing because the vast majority of people eat meat and are not interested in disgusting fake vegan food. I wouldn't be surprised if Beyond and Impossible have to provide product for free or even pay the grocery stores to carry the products.
• mathstuf 4y ago
  I'm vegetarian and I get asked how I like these "meat replacement" things often enough. The thing is that I just…don't like burgers, steaks, etc. so these are basically of zero interest to me (e.g., every veggie burger I've had I would consider to be better than every beef burger I've ever had; there was one kind of steak I liked growing up and it being mostly pre-marinated juices was most of what I liked about it). These products are not, IMO, for vegetarians for vegans but more for meat eaters looking to reduce their (actual) meat consumption.
• BashiBazouk 4y ago
  My wife taught a business class using the Beyond Meat company as one of the examples. We got a costco box of beyond meat patties to check them out and I cooked and served them (just to the family). They reminded me of a puck of cat food when frozen/de-thawing. Smelled weird cooking. Then for just the time I was eating, came really dam close to a real burger. But no one had any desire to reheat any leftovers. My opinion was they are close, but the concept needs a bit more work. I also think they might be better in a restaurant setting as it's kind like sausage, it's best not to know the process and just enjoy the finished product. We also have a Next Level Burger in our local Whole Foods we occasionally eat at and if they added Beyond Meat to the menu I don't think I would order it over the other vegi patties they already serve...
• itpragmatik 4y ago
  As a vegetarian I always despised the idea of chewing/eating something that "just tastes like" meat! I do hope Burger King/McDonald's bring the real veggie patty burger (black bean or anything that is real vegetable/grains) back on their menu - so much convenient when traveling on the road!
• thrownaway561 4y ago
  The issue is that the business strategy for all these companies was to convert meat eaters into plant eaters which is never going to happen in the long run. Sure sales surged in the beginning cause it was the "new thing" and everyone wanted to try them if nothing else, as a comparison. Like ever other gimmick though, once the surge ends the company has no idea what to do next.
• ohbleek 4y ago
  It’s a price issue. That’s it. There’s nothing more to it.
• Avlin67 4y ago
  after seeing downvoted comments I guess there lot of politics, maybe fanatism on this subject. not sure what should I say to not being downvoted…
• mvkel 4y ago
  The mistake they're making is hammering it as a consumer brand. Really it should just be an alternate behind the scenes where people don't know. Or need to know. Long term tho, I think lab grown meats will prevail and non-meat meats will age like margarine.
• spicyramen_ 4y ago
• mawadev 4y ago
  I simply cannot afford it. The price for what you get is too high. I never understood why these supposedly cool new things have to be so expensive all the time. I'm better off eating neither meat nor beyond meat or at least in lesser quantities.
• JoeAltmaier 4y ago
  Beef is different from pork and chicken and turkey. Why can't these new meats stop trying to be beef, and just be tasty? A different kind of tasty is ok. E.g. I just ate some Impossible chili, and it was great!
• odessacubbage 4y ago
  i've always wondered why these meat alternatives don't try to target exotic & rare meats rather than aiming for the most common staples. i would think you would have much more leeway with something where there is less familiarity and not to mention the price tag could be framed much more favorably rather than trying to compete with one of the most highly subsidized proteins on earth. why don't we have beyond alligator or beyond ostrich or even better yet, some kind of hypothetical dinosaur meat?
• eddof13 4y ago
  I wouldn't touch this with a ten foot pole so good riddance