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EV adoption in US is happening faster than predicted
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- olivermarks 4y agoEVs are currently more expensive to operate in europe than gasoline powered vehicles due to out of control inflation and geo political supply issues
- rootusrootus 4y agoWe're headed for that everywhere, I think. I'm currently deciding between a MachE and a RAV4 Prime. The price premium for the Ford is so acute that there is no way it'll ever be cheaper TCO than the Toyota. PHEVs are looking very attractive right now.
- ZeroGravitas 4y agoReally? In the UK it's still better to run an EV, and I thought they were the hardest hit at the moment? Here's a recently updated article that suggests it's still a good deal: https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-11148861/Is-cheaper-run-electric-car-petrol-energy-prices-rising.html https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-111...
- rcMgD2BwE72F 4y ago>EVs are currently more expensive to operate in europe than gasoline powered vehicles Source?
- aembleton 4y ago7.5p/KWh between 00:30 and 04:30 on Octopus Go [1]. Kia Niro EV has an efficiency of 276Wh/mile [2]. That's 2.72p/mile. Latest petrol price averages £1.6933/litre [3]. That makes an ICE car cheaper only if it can acheive 280mpg. ( (169.33/2.72) * 4.5 ). My Prius averages 55mpg. That makes my Prius 5 times as expensive to run as an EV right now. 1. https://octopus.energy/go/ https://octopus.energy/go/ 2. https://ev-database.uk/car/1666/Kia-Niro-EV https://ev-database.uk/car/1666/Kia-Niro-EV 3. https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/fuel-watch/ https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/fuel-watch/
- fnordpiglet 4y ago+ning
- xwowsersx 4y agoApparently, "happen" is the word in the <title> tag even though "happening" is what it says at the top of the page. We should update the title here IMO.
- ppetty 4y agoThere are a significant number of references to a BCG report from June 2022. The article doesn’t link to that report directly. I don’t doubt that the report exists… but linking to it wouldn’t hurt. It might be this one: https://www.bcg.com/publications/2022/electric-cars-finding-next-gear https://www.bcg.com/publications/2022/electric-cars-finding-...
- guidedlight 4y agoGiven EV’s should have price parity with ICE by 2025-2027, I think its obvious that EV adoption should accelerate. Unless you are purchasing a very cheap sub-$20k car, EV’s should become the only choice by 2030. https://insideevs.com/news/506465/evs-price-parity-europe-2027/ https://insideevs.com/news/506465/evs-price-parity-europe-20...
- AmericanChopper 4y agoGive me a decent un-networked EV and I’ll buy it immediately. Until then I’ll keep my ICE vehicle. Which will probably be until they’re eventually banned, because I don’t think a decent un-networked EV is ever going to exist.
- josephcsible 4y agoIt's unfair to ask for an un-networked EV when basically nobody is even making un-networked ICE vehicles anymore.
- AmericanChopper 4y agoIt’s very simple to find a high quality ICE vehicle that is not substantially networked to remote services, or at least that you can easily disconnect. I brought a brand new one very recently, nobody is able to remotely control the vehicle, and the only surveillance instruments in the car are the ones I choose to carry around with me.
- elif 4y agoAny modern car can be remote controlled by plugging a device into the port used by comma.io If you're really worried about the agencies hijacking you to kill you, you're gonna need to buy vintage.
- RocketOne 4y agoNot kill. Control. Like Tesla deleting features that the original owner paid for. Like BMW charging a monthly fee to activate features already built into the car. Like UI updates that are automatic and make options worse but you can't stop the updates.
- jjtheblunt 4y agoarticle title doesn't say "ever" predicted. subtle hyperbole
- crooked-v 4y agoI suspect it would be even faster if there was a charging option for the many people in cities with their cars in shared garages, even one as simple as just having a lot of 240V outlets. It feels like something that's rather overlooked at the moment.
- hn_throwaway_99 4y agoAgreed, but I think this is likely going to be a "tipping point" type of change. That is, overall EV share is still relatively low, but very soon not having charging at apartment buildings will be a non-starter. I'd easily bet that in 5 years you'll see new condo/apartment developments where every space has a charging option.
- profmonocle 4y ago> but very soon not having charging at apartment buildings will be a non-starter. My HOA has been discussing this and they came to the same conclusion - not installing chargers in the garage will make it very difficult to sell condos here in 5-ish years.
- mperham 4y agoOregon just passed rules mandating 40% of new apt parking spaces must have charging available. That, combined with no parking minimums, means that parking will really be minimal at new complexes imo.
- Gigachad 4y agoThe problem is mostly around metering and billing. Installing 240v outlets is very easy. Making the users of them pay for their usage is harder (but not too hard). No one wants to pay the power usage of someone else.
- asdff 4y agoThe thing is its already bad enough that new apartments are mandated to build garages. It leads to fewer units being built overall due to that huge cost to the developer. Now you have to add on charging to each and every spot as well? Maybe this is the impetus that finally gets us off the ball and chain of car culture.
- throw7 4y ago"Many of us don’t need detailed analysis to understand this. We can see it on our neighborhood streets" I live in an apartment complex. Zero EVs. I suppose you are correct; I never considered myself as part of the "Many of us" moniker.
- googlryas 4y ago70% of Americans live in houses. Not apartments or condos.
- smeagull 4y agoI've found them difficult to spot, until I knew what I was looking for. And I'm in a city with an aging population, and many tradies who drive only Utes. The EVs are still here in larger numbers than I expected.
- firecall 4y agoAdelaide by any chance? LOL
- rocket_surgeron 4y agoIn countries and US states taking the fate of humanity seriously they are either preparing to fund or have already funded public/semi-public EV charging infrastructure upgrades. However, with a little planning it is possible to own an EV even if you live in an apartment where there is no charging infrastructure. The average American drives 39 (let's call it 40) miles per day. The Hyundai Ioniq 5 has a 303 (let's call it 300) mile range. That's 7.5 days of driving on a full battery, but most people will get freaked out about having a low battery (despite driving around with their gas light on) so you just have to spend 15-45 minutes every 4 days at a DC fast charger and you'll never have a battery below 50%. Going out? Go out somewhere with a DC fast charger. There are tens of thousands of them and that number has been increasing by about 25% per year for the last two years. So EVs in an apartment is a pain in the ass but manageable. In a couple of years apartments are going encountering friction while attracting renters, destinations will have friction attracting visitors, and offices will have friction attracting employees unless there are accessible charging options so I suspect the public EV charging situation will improve rapidly.
- oaththrowaway 4y agoI love the idea of an EV, but I hate how unfriendly they are towards self-repair and I don't want my car connected to the internet. Also an EV has more battery capacity than my house so it'd be pretty hard to charge a car in the winter when I can barely keep my house batteries running my house.
- plazmatic 4y ago
- ezfe 4y agoInternet connection ≠ EV. It just so happens many correlate, but many do not.
- jen20 4y agoIs there an EV available which is not internet connected?
- benhurmarcel 4y agoBasically all of them except Tesla
- ezfe 4y agoSomething like a VW ID.4 is just as connected as any other VW.
- hn_throwaway_99 4y agoSorry for the "website detail" rant, but for the main chart in that article that shows percentage market share of different types of vehicles - was there a big discount on green ink or something? Why use ever-so-close shades of the same color that make it much harder to actually read the chart?
- rootusrootus 4y agoI have owned a Tesla, and I leased my wife a Bolt a while back. She's convinced, I'm convinced, but with the lease coming to an end next year we probably will not replace the Bolt with another EV. Why? Prices. I was ready to buy a Mach E, but then Ford raised the price something like 6 grand while simultaneously losing the $7500 tax credit. That effectively bumps the price of the car into a territory I don't think makes a good value. So instead we're putting ourselves on the waiting list for a RAV4 Prime. We'll still reap most of the benefits of plugging in, but the price is much more palatable for what you get.
- anonporridge 4y agoI've seen Rav4 Primes selling for $20k over the $50k premium MSRP. They're not in a better place than regular EVs.
- mechanical_bear 4y agoExcept you can get them for MSRP at many dealers, for example: Sunnyvale Toyota.
- driverdan 4y agoListed or selling? Plenty of dealers are trying to get well over MSRP but only an idiot would pay that much for a RAV4 Prime.
- crooked-v 4y agoI suspect you might have been misinformed, as the Mach-E is actually one of the few current vehicles[1] that will be able to keep the $7500 tax credit for the rest of the year, before the new rules around sourcing requirements and income limits kick in on Jan 1st. [1]: https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/federal-ev-tax-credits-end-for-most-evs-plug-in-hybrids/ https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/federal-ev-tax-credits-en...
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- darkteflon 4y agoI feel like predictions on EV adoption generally focus too much on practical benefits and cost improvements over time, but discount - or at least fail to mention - the potential impact of ICE products becoming very uncool, very quickly - at least in Western countries. Overnight, even. It’s not a big stretch to imagine that generations of younger people concerned about the climate might make product consumption choices that draw a clear line between themselves and their ICE-driving parents.
- rootusrootus 4y agoPlausible, but I always come back to TCO. The real reason EVs are suddenly gaining traction is that prices for gasoline spiked and a lot of people are finally realizing that EVs typically cost much less to fuel. Think about how people suddenly start trading in pickups for compact cars when gas prices have spiked in the past -- and maybe that to save 25-50% on fuel cost. A bunch of people are realizing that going to EV is saving more like 75% or more, and that's without downsizing. So of course EVs were going to become very popular. Just had to get people past the range anxiety and charging unfamiliarity. Now they see that all their neighbors are doing just fine with their new Teslas/etc, and they talk to them about their experience, anxiety goes down, and they sign their name on the waiting list.
- darkteflon 4y agoYeah I think that’s a good explanation of what’s driving current demand, and I suspect that projections as to the future direction of those cost inputs is primarily what’s driving these (widely-publicised) predictive models. But my point wasn’t that “people are buying EVs because they’re cool”, but rather: I bet current projections of future rates of EV adoption underweight the effect of ICE products becoming desperately uncool faster than most expect. It’s just a hunch though.
- 988747 4y agoPrices of electricity have spiked as well in Europe, thanks to the war in Ukraine. I just recently read an article saying that in Netherlands it's now more expensive to drive electric car than gasoline powered one.
- bilsbie 4y agoI definitely prefer to have an ice vehicle for range and privacy reasons. But I have this irrational hatred of oil changes. For me that seems like the biggest bonus of an EV. Edit: I guess I don’t like the idea that ordinary procrastination can, in this case destroy a 50k investment.
- brnt 4y agoDoesn't your garage handle that for you at the yearly checkup?
- JKCalhoun 4y agoDo people have "garages" and yearly checkups? Maybe it's a European thing? In the U.S. we have Jiffy Lube and the "checkup" is just another way for them to squeeze the customer for cash. We are so distrustful of auto mechanics in general that, no, I don't think most of us go looking for a yearly fleecing, ha ha (not funny, really).
- brnt 4y agoIt's mandatory here in Europe, if you care about being road-legal.
- stevenwoo 4y agoIt depends on the state one lives in the USA. For instance in Texas, a garage inspects your vehicle once a year on basic functionality for it to qualify for a sticker one puts on the windshield (automatic ticket if law enforcement stops you with one out of date). In California, one has to get a smog inspection every so often to qualify for the sticker on the license plate to indicate one has paid one's vehicle tax for the year (automatic ticket if stopped by law enforcement with expired sticker).
- snuxoll 4y agoHere in Idaho traditional ICE vehicles need emissions testing every few years after a certain age, but hybrids, PHEV’s and BEV’s are exempt. No other inspection required to renew your tags every year.
- endisneigh 4y agoI love EVs. That being said I wish someone would make an enclosed bicycle/motorcycle that costs less than $2000. Something like that which can go 30mph and had space for 2 days of groceries would be enough for me to eliminate my car all together. I'm cobbling something similar now with a Class 3 cargo ebike, but rain sucks =/ The idealist in me says that electric ebikes could eliminate most of Americas problems in one swoop: - Pedal assisted ebikes result in exercise. America is up there in obesity. - America is also up there in cardiovascular unhealthiness. - Americans have an average distance of 15 miles to work. 30mph + 60 mile range would allow you to comfortably get to work in approximately 30 minutes and give you enough juice to do it round trip, twice. - Lower speeds result in fewer accident fatalities. America is up there in the number of road deaths. Lower speeds and smaller vehicles would lower this. - Bike infrastructure can be used for walking. Walking is good. This promotes accessibility for a large range of people, notably children and elders. - Bikes require less space to park, a lot less. This extra space can be used to build more housing. This additional housing will increase density, making bikes only more viable (compared to being in traffic in a car). --- EVs are better than ICE, certainly. But I fear it will exacerbate some of our problems. - The CapEx for EVs will discourage walking infrastructure. - EVs can accelerate faster, much faster. I fear this will result in more accidents. - EVs are much heavier than their equivalent ICE vehicles. Hopefully this doesn't result in EV accidents being more likely to have a fatality. Ideally we'd just begin to phase out cars ideally, as opposed to transition to EVs from ICE, but I suppose baby steps are warranted here.
- hutzlibu 4y ago"Ideally we'd just begin to phase out cars ideally" I likely cycled more km, than I drove by car and I do not intend to change that, but for long distance trips with the whole family, a car is hard to beat or replace.
- oblio 4y ago> - EVs are much heavier than their equivalent ICE vehicles. Extra: - more tire and road particulates pollution - more road wear (someone said something like road wear is the power of 4 of the weight of the vehicle, which makes extra weight particularly awful), ergo higher infra expenses
- 8f2ab37a-ed6c 4y agoThe thing holding me back as a renter is that a lot of buildings still don't have any way for you to charge your EV. So unless you're into hunting for available public charging sites, you're SooL.
- timbit42 4y agoOffer to pay your landlord's cost to put one in for you. Eventually landlords will be falling over themselves to install chargers so their apartments will remain rentable.
- s0rce 4y agoThat could be quite costly depending on the wiring locations in the unit and the total current capacity available. Personally as a renter in this situation I'd be pretty reluctant to pay for this unless its going to be saving me enough on gas to offset most of it. I guess if you really plan on a long term rental it might make more sense.
- 8f2ab37a-ed6c 4y agoAnd it's one more thing for buildings to maintain, especially if not gated. In cities like SF it's safe to expect someone to try to dismantle that charger within days to try to sell it for parts.
- 8f2ab37a-ed6c 4y agoDepends on where you live. No landlord is going to fall over themselves for anything in SF (or other desirable areas) for a long time.
- Tempest1981 4y agoIt has helped that EVs are perceived as high performance, and sometimes luxury vehicles. That wasn't the case for most hybrids.
- denimnerd42 4y agomy current car cost $2000. my wife’s car is the cross country trip car. no room for an EV here yet but it’ll be attractive when they are readily available used and proven reliable at 15+ years old.
- therealrootuser 4y agoAs someone that is currently in the market for a new car, I would love to get an EV, but I also don't have a good way to charge. Seems like most EV owners just charge at their house, but what about people that don't have access to a good power tap? (apartment dwellers, renters, etc.) Sometimes it feels like there is a group of EV elites out there that are predicting the complete demise of ICEs while conveniently downplaying the problem of charging access. I live on the outskirts of a major metro area. I've looked at the charging maps, and there just aren't good chargers available right now. I really hope that chargers will become ubiquitous in my area in the future, but until that happens, I don't have a great choice. And so, my next car is going to just be a standard ICE hybrid. I hope that will be the last ICE I have to buy, but for right now, an EV seems like it is just not quite practical for me.
- AYBABTME 4y agoThe early adopters prove the market and make it so that charging infrastructure becomes more prevalent.
- reaperducer 4y agowhat about people that don't have access to a good power tap? (apartment dwellers, renters, etc.) I've lived in two apartment buildings that had electric car chargers. In both buildings, the chargers were constantly engaged. Hopefully some of that electric infrastructure money ends up putting chargers in private and public parking garages. I think that would give people more confidence that they could switch. Related question: Once you charge an electric car, how long can it sit before it discharges on its own? Like how if you charge your cell phone, but even if you don't use your phone, eventually the batteries will still run out. I don't drive much, so I wonder if it is practical for me to charge an EV in an apartment garage, then move it to another space and leave it for a week or two or three and it still be full?
- potatochup 4y agoDepends on what is doing (see, Tesla sentry mode which keeps the cameras on) but otherwise self-discharge is well under 1%/day for most EVs
- santimoller66 4y ago[flagged]
- gravelc 4y agoI currently have a Toyota hybrid that is slowly reverting to an ICE-only after 8 years of ownership. Unless there's some mechanism in place to prolong the life of electric cars beyond the limits of their battery, I can see there'll be a lot of holdouts (young people, less well off etc.). Regulation in the big markets such as the US and Europe to enforce a cost-effective approach to battery replacement seems essential to me. Otherwise, design will go the way of ever slimmer phones.
- aembleton 4y ago> I currently have a Toyota hybrid that is slowly reverting to an ICE-only after 8 years of ownership. How do you detect when its doing that? My Prius is 14 years old and I think the hybrid still works. It does switch off the engine still at low speeds. Maybe it is isn't doing as well these days, but still seems good enough to keep for me.
- timbit42 4y agoPerhaps something has happened to your battery or the charging equipment. My 2006 Prius still gets great fuel economy. I'd get Toyota to check it. A taxi driver in Vancouver had a 2004 Prius and drove 1 million kilometres only changing tires, bulbs and wipers and it was still going when Toyota bought it back from him and shipped it to Japan to study it.
- paganel 4y agoLoading our power infrastructure with the needs of tens of millions of cars which now rely on gasoline/diesel but which, in the future, will need electric power in order to function is downright criminal in this current geo-political climate. First, we don't even have the resources to provide electric power at decent prices as things are right now, that's why your nice 70-year lady living with her 2 cats in a house in Cornwall or something like that will see her power invoice multiply by a factor of 3 or 4 at least, thinking that bringing in even more demand for power will improve things when it comes to price is, I repeat, criminal (that old lady presumably needs power in order to heat herself during the winter, making that power exponentially more expensive won't help with that). Second, we don't have the infrastructure. Maybe if we'll invest trillions of dollars and euros we'll be able to connect the new nuclear plants and solar farms to the main grid and transport the new extra power between big population centers, but at the "last mile" stage things are awful, for example I'm 99% sure my apartments building cannot handle one in two apartments (let's say) charging their cars at night, especially during the summer, the thing will just catch fire.
- nharada 4y agoWell the only alternative is “stop using cars” which I don’t see America agreeing to. I think we’ll have to pay.
- dillondoyle 4y agoSounds like you're in the UK. It does feel like we're going to have at least 5 years of pain during this transition. It also feels like the market isn't truly fair on price making the pain hurt more. Sure it's legal to rake in record profit but it's not ethical. But I'm in the U.S. and finally have some slight optimism on climate future for first time in my adult life. The climate bill provides incentives, credits, straight up money for all sides of this chain. From raw materials -> clean energy capacity/manufacturing -> EV, charger, & battery production -> and finally the consumer EVs but also energy savings in upgrades & new construction. ~400b depending how you add it up. Not enough. But not nothing. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/28/climate/biden-climate-deal-key-provisions.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/28/climate/biden-climate-dea...
- 4y ago
- lifeplusplus 4y agoWon't electric car have bad resell value given battery cost an arm to replace
- zelos 4y agoBattery longevity is rapidly approaching the life of the car. 5% drop in 100,000 miles.
- natch 4y agoDepends on the brand features (like actual/real versus promised/non-built out supercharger network for example).
- neallindsay 4y agoI think you're over-estimating how common it will be to need a battery replacement in an EV. Car batteries don't generally "go bad". They instead get "smaller" over time, but not drastically so. It remains to be seen if modern EV batteries will need to be replaced before all the rest of the car.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 4y agoNo. Nowadays, EV don't need battery replacement. Degradation is negligible for the current fleet: Bullshit. https://www.geotab.com/fleet-management-solutions/ev-battery https://www.geotab.com/fleet-management-solutions/ev-battery... And these are for 10-year old EV. Battery packs made today won't have to be replace after 15 years, and they'll certainly be used as stationary storage past their time on wheels. More importantly, most EV will switch to LFP chemistry (already more than half Tesla's vehicles production), which degrades even less. -https://www.geotab.com/fleet-management-solutions/ev-battery-degradation-tool/ https://www.geotab.com/fleet-management-solutions/ev-battery... - https://electrek.co/2018/04/14/tesla-battery-degradation-data/ https://electrek.co/2018/04/14/tesla-battery-degradation-dat... - https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2021-tesla-impact-report.pdf https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2021-tesla-impact-report.pdf (p. 67) for Tesla S/X fleet wide results. And this is for nickel-based batteries. Most EVs will be LFP in the foreseeable future, and they degrade far less. We'll certainly use the battery as long as they car can drive, and then, it will be added to the grid for stationary applications. Then, it will be sold and recycled. More from the International Energy Agency latest report on EV/batteries: https://iea.blob.core.windows.net/assets/e0d2081d-487d-4818-8c59-69b638969f9e/GlobalElectricVehicleOutlook2022.pdf https://iea.blob.core.windows.net/assets/e0d2081d-487d-4818-...
- innocentoldguy 4y agoI purchased a Model X Plaid recently and was pleasantly surprised that it only cost me $8 to drive around during my first month of ownership. Much better than the $500 I was spending on gas a month to drive my RAM 2500 around. I have solar panels, otherwise, it would have been around $45 last month, according to Tesla’s app.
- d--b 4y agoWhat are the main obstacle to cheap EV? Today's car are heavy as hell compared to cars made 30 years ago. Is it possible to make cars that are build on a much lighter base, but that use a heavier/cheaper battery (sodium based?)
- asdff 4y agoYeah, its called an ebike. When you are using a vehicle as large as an electric car to run your errands, probably 95% of the energy is spent just to move the vehicle around, not you or your groceries but just the vehicle to A and B. With a 50 lb ebike and a few panniers running those groceries versus a 5000lb ev, you are doing the same work but a lot more of the energy spent is going to the actual work, moving you and your groceries, rather than the vehicle. Now if you consider the length of it, things aren't any better. The next time you are in gridlocked traffic, look at the cars around you. Imagine the cars just disappeared and everyone was standing in the road. It's obviously pretty inefficient to wait in line with 20-30 foot gaps between the person in front of you and 10-15 foot gaps with the person beside you, but thats what rush hour is in cars.
- timbit42 4y agoThere are also enclosed ebikes for inclement weather, such as the Organic Transit ELF and the BetterBike PEBL.
- asdff 4y agoI'd imagine an e rickshaw would eliminate the need for a pickup truck or an SUV for most people. Get one with a back that can open like a ute and you can haul anything.
- d--b 4y agoI live in the woods, I have a good ebike, and I've used it about a month as my main vehicle last December. But first, I fell off and ruined my knee, and second, I can't spend 60 minutes to get to the first grocery store. There are plenty of options for slow electric transportation. I need a car that can do 60mph.
- Eleison23 4y agoThe last time I owned a car was 1997. The last time I actually drove one was 2011 (I put about 1200 miles on a rental car in a week.) I still retain a driver's license. I owned a bicycle for a few years but I ditched it, because it was extraordinarily inconvenient for all the use I got, at least after I quit a call-center job in an isolated office park. I've ridden public transit for about 45 years, thanks Grandma! This year I'm going multi-modal. I'm using taxi cabs for errands like groceries and laundry. I'm using specialized rideshare for medical appointments. I use public transit for ordinary errands and appointments where I don't need to lug a lot of cargo around. I use scooter-shares for quickly zipping somewhere with zero cargo (it's fun! 17MPH in a traffic lane! Look ma, no helmets!) And I rented a car (ICE, no other options) a few months ago which enabled me to do stuff like haul scrap metal and other recycling to the facility, which does not permit citizens without a vehicle (and just try convincing a taxi driver to cooperate with that ritual...) I live in a very, very multi-modal-friendly city and they're aggressively adding options and restructuring the highways and byways to be friendly to people just like me. There's a new community of micro-homes going in two blocks down. It's going to be quite the multi-modal transportation Utopia for the foreseeable future!
- shashurup 4y agoI would love to use EV - it is simpler, more torque etc. But where do we get all this additional electricity from, mostly burning carbon?
- neallindsay 4y agoMostly solar. Solar panels have gotten a lot cheaper in recent years and are the most economical new power generation to build.
- shashurup 4y agoSee my comment above.
- natch 4y agoSolar, wind, carbon burning, nuclear, hydro… a mix. Petro fuel burning won't go away, it will just be a smaller part of the mix. And there's plenty of capacity at night. And there are batteries, which we can charge with for example solar in the daytime, and then use at night. Rooftop solar is great because it's near the point of use. All the people wringing their hands about the grid can rest easy, it will be fine. Sure in some climate solar is less available; see above… it can be a mix as appropriate for the place.
- shashurup 4y agoAccording to [1] in 2019 61% of the world electricity is produced burning coal and oil. I don't see a reason why this proportion would change to fullfill EV caused demand increase. I'm afraid that even worse - sweeping demand increase will be fullfilled the easiest way - burning oil and gas. Hydro and nuclear are slow to build. Solar... I don't know what is wrong with it but taking into account that it is a lot cheaper to extract (comparing to oil and gas) it is still just 3%. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_generation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_generation
- natch 4y ago
- ZeroGravitas 4y agoElectric miles driven is a slightly more important metric and should be weighted towards early adopters, since delivery vans and long commutes earn back the upfront cost faster. The classic car that only gets driven on summer weekends isn't worth as much as a USPS van in terms of carbon and urban pollution reduction.
- parkingrift 4y agoI’m shocked at the number of people paying EV prices. The Model Y is just about the only EV SUV that you can go out and buy right now, and it starts at $68k. The math does not support this price premium. You will not save money. This is before considering that it will cost several thousand to have a charger installed, and to say nothing of the other drawbacks of EV ownership. My prediction is that EV penetration will plateau pretty quickly. There are no short term plans to turn NYC into an EV friendly city.
- koheripbal 4y agoOwnership also doesn't make economic sense. Battery replacement after 10-15 years negates any gas savings in that period. People are just buying the fad. They think they are being green but most that charging power still comes from gas/oil power plants.
- ZeroGravitas 4y ago> They think they are being green but most that charging power still comes from gas/oil power plants. They would still be green if that was the case, though generally it's not, see state by state worked examples here: https://evtool.ucsusa.org/ https://evtool.ucsusa.org/
- rcMgD2BwE72F 4y ago>Battery replacement after 10-15 years negates any gas savings in that period. Bullshit. https://www.geotab.com/fleet-management-solutions/ev-battery-degradation-tool/ https://www.geotab.com/fleet-management-solutions/ev-battery... And these are for 10-year old EV. Battery packs made today won't have to be replace after 15 years, and they'll certainly be used as stationary storage past their time on wheels. More importantly, most EV will switch to LFP chemistry (already more than half Tesla's vehicles production), which degrades even less. Other sources: - https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2021-tesla-impact-report.pdf https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2021-tesla-impact-report.pdf (p. 67) for Tesla S/X fleet wide results. - https://electrek.co/2018/04/14/tesla-battery-degradation-data/ https://electrek.co/2018/04/14/tesla-battery-degradation-dat...
- 4y ago
- fosefx 4y agoCool. Now build bus stops, so I don't need one.
- jmartin2683 4y ago…because they’re way, way better in just about every way imaginable. The only upside to a gas car is that they’re slightly cheaper up front (in exchange for massively higher operating costs).
- kkfx 4y agoI ask only for a VERY SIMPLE thing: any damn car and charger equipped with a standard data bus and relevant open and public and standard API to talk. Negotiating needs and options of both sides. That means I can plug the car in the garage and it talk to my p.v. inverter eating as much energy as it can when the Sun shine and stopping when Sun is not there with user-configurable simple and quick to set parameter: target SOC and target time. Like "I want a minimum SOC for this time". Than car and p.v. do their best to maximize self consumption high voltage DC to inverter MPPT to maximize efficiency as a bonus. Plus since there are anyway to DC wires and also two/more AC wires and the car have an inverter anyway offering energy to the home as needed, with a minimum SOC for when the home is on grid, another for when the grid fail. Most hybrid/battery inverter already do that since years. There is no &$&%%( reason why cars with their large batteries and naturally limited service life can't do the same. If an OEM do that, even before have a public standard, witch means needing to change/add an inverter, I'll buy the car ASAP. If not I'll wait until diesel reach 5-6€/liter or became so scarce I can't keep using it. Sorry but there is a limit of CRAPPY and alpha-alike quality crap to be imposed on people because those who design and sell the aforementioned crap do not use it on their own so do not realize what's needed and what's not.
- sam345 4y agoI didn't get into the data just scanned the article but her main point is it looks good because their own projections for 2030 have increased over the years since their original projection in 2008? And we still have 8 years to go? Little or no discussion of actual data? Weird.
- redeeman 4y agocalifornia: please stop using power or we have to rotate blackouts! also california: YOU MUST ALL BUY ELECTRIC VEHICLES!
- timbit42 4y agoThe power restrictions were in the evenings when people are cooking and using a lot of electricity. EVs normally charge at night when usage and rates are low.