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Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules
- sschueller 5y ago"But judges ruled the risk of suicide was removed by assurances from the US." Like Epstein? Let this be a point, there is no press freedom in the United States.
- afandian 5y agoHeard an intesting analysis of this on BBC news. The court was more or less bound to accept the 'assurances', as they were an underlying predicate for the whole extradition framework. To challenge that would be to unpick a lot more politics. I'm not sure the judges were naive enough to believe the US government, but they probably had no choice.
- mattzito 5y agoExcept the article is from the bbc?
- caslon 5y agoThey're talking about how Assange broke no laws yet is getting tortured by the US and has been for years now for publishing media.
- oauea 5y agoGuaranteed he's dead within a year.
- not1ofU 5y agoEpstein is either still alive and retired to some other island, OR, Maxwell is actually the Puppet Master and he was a fall guy. - I think the 2nd is the most likely option, given her family history, and that she hasn't been epstiened. And she is likely to get off, under the excuse of being controlled and in an abusive relationship.
- chevill 5y agoThere's a 0% chance that Epstein is alive and a 0% chance she walks on those charges. Miscarriages of justice do happen but for the most part life is not a poorly written TV drama.
- mcv 5y agoHave you watched the past 5 seasons of real life? It was incredibly poorly written.
- Taurenking 5y agokeep watching
- Ensorceled 5y agoThis second option ... may actually be true.
- DonaldFisk 5y ago> Like Epstein? Exactly. You can't prevent prison suicides. In 2012, when she was home secretary, Theresa May stopped Gary McKinnon's extradition to the USA, on the grounds that he was a high suicide risk, and therefore the extradition violated his human rights. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_McKinnon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_McKinnon). If only I had similar expectations of our current home secretary.
- iso1631 5y agoWhat a crazy world where Theresa May is deemed to be a good home sec. I wonder how much pressure the Lib Dems put on her.
- ben_w 5y agoSeeing how much she changed from Home Secretary to Prime Minister, I think the problem is with the office rather than the person.
- antihero 5y agoIf you are Home Secretary your job is basically to be a humungeous authoritarian piece of shit, because if something happens due to the country's security being breached in whatever manner, your head is on the chopping block.
- hk1337 5y agoIf we’re talking about murder veiled in suicide then this has a good point but what about an individual’s right to end their own life, to choose how their life should end?
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- hulitu 5y ago> Like Epstein? Yes. And like Milosevic. And like Saddam. It's funny how some people choose to commit suicide just before trial.
- tokai 5y agoWhat? Saddam was executed.
- kingcharles 5y agoHaving just recently got out of jail, I can tell you it is infinitely easy to kill yourself. You would not believe the ingenuity of some of those attempts and successes. If the institution gets a hint that you are suicidal you will be placed in some sort of anti-suicide cell, which generally means that you are in solitary, you wear a paper or foam suit with no other clothing, you have no bed linen or any paper materials in your cell, and all your food comes on foam trays without any cutlery and has to be eaten with your fingers.
- justicezyx 5y agoStill discussing like Epstein committed suicide? The evidence pretty much all point to something other than suicide...
- Hitton 5y agoSuch measures would make you want to commit suicide even if you weren't suicidal before.
- kingcharles 5y agoYes, indeed. I also failed to mention the light in the cell will be set to bright and will be on 24x7 and your cell will almost certainly have a completely glass door and you will be under camera and guard surveillance 24x7 to make sure you don't do anything stupid. If you are very lucky, some of these cells have a small wall in front of the toilet so you can at least get a tiny amount of privacy - they'll only be able to see you from the waist up.
- hnfong 5y agoWhat do you mean in the US? This is global jurisdiction and enforcement, that's what the extradition is about.
- the_optimist 5y agoOnly in the sense of a Solzhenitsyn nightmare. There are breathing, ideologically-bent individuals pushing this. Who are they, and how do we hound them like they have hounded him.
- catlikesshrimp 5y agoDoxxing only works agaisnt normal people. When someone lives inside one of several walled properties, hiding is unnecessary. Offtopic: doxxing is evil. Don't do it.
- Dracophoenix 5y ago>>Offtopic: doxxing is evil. Don't do it. Devil's advocate: Doxxing isn't any more or less evil than investigative journalism or hiring a PI.
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago> There are breathing, ideologically-bent individuals pushing this. Who are they… For starters, there are the majority of Americans who believe he should be extradited. (In second place, those who don’t care.)
- ekianjo 5y agomajority of americans who are brainwashed by whatever they see on the mainstream media.
- wyattpeak 5y agoWhile I'm not particularly sold on the shadowy organisation argument, what the majority of Americans want should be fairly irrelevant to a matter of British law. One would presume that Americans want possible crimes against them to be tried in their courts, but the purpose of an extradition hearing is to determine whether what the other country wants is acceptable.
- swiley 5y ago[flagged]
- guilhas 5y agoGoing back to the land of the free! USA the country with the most jailed in the world, even China with 5x more population It is baffling how they keep lecturing the world
- tsimionescu 5y agoThis is devastating news. Seeing the injustice of how one of the greatest journalists of our age is being treated literally hurts. And not just by the US power system, but also most of the media, even people who pass as liberal like John Stewart are almost spitting in his face and treating the US repression as justified.
- tsimionescu 5y agoEdit: not John Stewart, John Oliver...
- rado 5y agoJust in time: "US announces funds to support independent journalism and reporters targeted for their work"
- qart 5y agoI noticed that too. Strange games, the US is playing.
- jessaustin 5y agoEverything on this page seems kind of pathetic now: https://www.state.gov/subjects/press-freedom/ https://www.state.gov/subjects/press-freedom/
- juanani 5y agoReads like the onion, thanks!
- White_Wolf 5y agofixed it for you: "US announces funds to support <the right> independent journalism and reporters targeted for their work"
- fallingknife 5y agoIf it's supported by government funds it's not "independent journalism" anymore.
- peppermint_tea 5y agorelevant : https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/11/30/assange-and-the-assurances-of-civilised-torturers https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/11/30/assange-and-th... Seems like the "assurances" given by the U.S should not be taken seriously. Previous actions speak (or should I say shout) much louder than words. P.S : Adding "FREE JULIAN ASSANGE" to my personal website, I encourage everyone to do the same
- kome 5y ago> P.S : Adding "FREE JULIAN ASSANGE" to my personal website, I encourage everyone to do the same Great idea. I would suggest to link to this page https://defend.wikileaks.org/ https://defend.wikileaks.org/
- peppermint_tea 5y agodone, thank you.
- iso1631 5y agoIs that one free with every order?
- janmo 5y agoWill he be tried by a common jury or a military one? No way a common jury finds him guilty.
- supergirl 5y agothere is no way he will ever be free. it's just 1 man vs multiple governments. US gov is in no rush to bring it to trial. they'll keep him in solitary to die waiting for a trial that will never come
- janmo 5y agoI can only hope that they'll find him not guilty completely ridiculing the government and all those who were behind his prosecution.
- pmyteh 5y agoHe's entitled to a trial within 70 days of his first appearance in the US, if he demands one. Speedy Trial Act of 1974.
- antocv 5y ago70 days is according to the new definition of very long days about 35 years
- jessaustin 5y agoIf he does eventually leave UK, we should all pray he does actually appear in USA at some point. Lots of "enemies" just disappear. This man is not a USA citizen, and was not in USA when he did the journalism that so offends the USA deep state. He will be extradited for purely political "crimes". Let's not pretend anymore that any of us live in societies governed by laws.
- kingcharles 5y agoLOL. I've been waiting almost 9 years on a 120 day Speedy Trial. While you are 100% technically correct (minus COVID extensions), the defense team will need a bunch of extensions to go through everything and file motions. And that is where the delays will come from - the prosecutor and judge will make sure any motions take years to process and he'll languish in jail for infinity. He won't get a bond either because of all the stuff that happened with the Bolivian Embassy.
- jimmySixDOF 5y agoSo begins the turning of the screw for him to reveal Guccifer 2.0 details just in time for some election or another
- kome 5y agoYoung people IMHO have no idea what's going on. In one line: Assange in 2010 revealed and gave clear proof of American war crimes in Iraq https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Collateral_Murder,_5_Apr_2010 https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Collateral_Murder,_5_Apr_2010 - now the US wants him dead. That's how imperialism works. Today is a sad day for all freedom and peace lovers. Edit: just to be clear, the perpetrators of those barbarous war crimes, and their superiors, never had to face justice.
- tptacek 5y agoAssange revealed no such thing. Reuters had published a transcript of the same video before Assange released it.
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago> revealed and gave clear proof of American war crimes in Iraq Honest question: are these crimes under U.S. law?
- HamburgerEmoji 5y agoIt's pure journalism. And why would he even have to worry about the laws of a country he wasn't in when he did the activities anyway? It's like worrying about whether what one is doing is legal in Bhutan.
- krageon 5y agoThe UN has a nice document explaining what war crimes are and how they matter: https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml
- jm547ster 5y agoWar crimes would generally refer to breaching international treaty and/or conventions. The "Patriot" Act rebranded torture/abduction so as to not fall foul of these. "Advanced interrogation techniques" ....
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- blackoil 5y agoAnd this is why I find all the posts around China and why people/company should be ostracised for dealing with them hypocritical.
- Ensorceled 5y agoSo if I post something criticizing China's policies towards, say, Tiawan or the Uyghurs, I must include some criticism of a random terrible US policy or I'm a hypocrite? Do I need to also include a criticism of, say, Russia's policies towards the Ukraine or is it only the US?
- mcv 5y agoYou must criticise every single injustice on Earth at once, or we just cannot take you seriously. (I shouldn't have to point out that was sarcasm, but I fear I need to, these days.)
- Ensorceled 5y agoYeah, whataboutism is pretty common on HN, unfortunately. I know it's a pretty common troll tactic on Reddit and Twitter, it's a shame to see it here.
- FpUser 5y agoThis depends. When it is reported as a news or one simply wants to discuss details sure there is no need to bring other's wrongdoings. But when it is used as at least partial propaganda (and it often does) in line of "look at good us and bad them" or comes from the government / affiliates then they better look in the mirror first. One thief has no standing criticizing the other. The fact that one had stolen $1000 and the other went for $2000 does not make much difference.
- discordance 5y agoIt is OK to hold the US and China responsible for their actions without associating them
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- enriquto 5y agoWe are creating really shameful times. History will not judge us lightly.
- b9be520d93286 5y agoHistory will be rewritten by the victors.
- pmontra 5y agoHistory gets rewritten constantly. An example: Julius Caesar, hero, martyr or villain? Ask an Italian or a French, probably two different versions. But also ask to an Italian 50 years ago (probably a hero, maybe even a martyr) or today (maybe a war criminal to be judged in the International Court of Justice.) Of course a correct judgement should apply the mindset of when the facts happened.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 5y agoI hear you, but why do we have to reduce this guy, of all people, to mere labels. Just reading story of him coming to power makes you gasp in awe at the sheer force of will and confidence that you are being destined for something greater. I dunno, I just like dislike this kind of, whats the word, reductionist approach to a human being. Million things made Julius the man that he was. If he ever had avocados, would we consider him proto-vegan? edit: I am only jesting.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago"correct judgement should apply the mindset of when the facts happened" That doesn't sound right either, we 'as in the himan race' done some fucked up shit because at the time it was cobsidered the right thing to do
- JohnWhigham 5y agoHow does one discern facts from 2000 years ago when all the sources we have are knowingly biased in one direction?
- skilled 5y agoSince I don't understand this, I will ask it here and maybe someone can give me a clear answer. What exactly does this mean for Julian Assange? I mean, in terms of this repetitive circle of going to court and then coming back empty handed. How often can Assange's defense team appeal these decisions and at what point can we expect the "final" decision to be made? E.g. Julian is either released or he is extradited.
- zarzavat 5y agoThis was the US government's appeal because the US lost at first instance. However Assange will now also have his own cross-appeal because even though he won at first instance, the court rejected all but one of his arguments. Aside from that, it will go to the Court of Appeal and/or to the UK Supreme Court. So potentially 2 or 3 further appeals.
- checkyoursudo 5y agoPossibly still the Euro Court of Human Rights as well.
- the_optimist 5y agoWhat rotten people are driving this, and how do we hold them accountable?
- myfavoritedog 5y agoIt's the same people/culture in the State Department, DOJ, and intelligence agencies who pushed that Clinton-funded Steele Dossier into the system to fabricate the Trump-Russia collusion hoax. Assange has exposed them time and again and they want payback.
- b9be520d93286 5y agoThe regime. Globalists. the same ones who flew on Lolita express and a lot worse. the rabbit hole goes deep....
- OneTimePetes 5y agoThe people are just the cells of the same beast since ancient times. Empire. In all shapes and forms, it devours what it grew in and becomes the same brutish atrocity over and over again. And it stays alive as "wannabe big" again dream long after. This is why britains elite aligns so flawlessly with the atrocities of the usa imperial bloom. The institutions recognize themselves from 100 years ago, when the trampled and maimed people like ghandi.
- hvgk 5y agoUsually at this point it’s pitchforks and torches.
- Mvandenbergh 5y agoThe elected governments of the US and UK and the laws they've passed?
- cyanydeez 5y agowe tried to sanction russia, but its hard when they used 0uppets to help railroad democracy
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- the_optimist 5y agoThe US is murdering international journalists.
- sleepysysadmin 5y ago>The US is murdering international journalists. The USA is in 4 ongoing wars crossing 3 different administrations. The USA likes killing international people.
- ddtaylor 5y ago"It creates jobs"
- randomNumber7 5y agoIt's seems they have a preference for goatherds though....
- jtdev 5y agoRaytheon approves!
- randomNumber7 5y agoNono. Only saudi arabia and russia are doing this. US is just following the law. Nothing wrong with that, right?
- deelly 5y ago
- unobatbayar 5y agoWish he revealed the secrets of China or Russia, not the United States.
- realce 5y agoRules for thee, not for me.
- bouncycastle 5y agoThey have released plenty of things on Russia too, eg https://wikileaks.org/spyfiles/russia/ https://wikileaks.org/spyfiles/russia/
- mikeyouse 5y agoThey're not a neutral actor, which is a damn shame; https://www.dailydot.com/debug/wikileaks-syria-files-syria-russia-bank-2-billion/ https://www.dailydot.com/debug/wikileaks-syria-files-syria-r...
- catlikesshrimp 5y agoHe is in jail, he can't. And the right thing to do is to denounce evil as it comes. Journalism is a requirement for democracy.
- criley2 5y agoThe histrionics, conspiracy theories and outright lies in this thread are outrageous. The US justice system is not the same as despotic countries like Russia or China. Reality Winner will be released from prison soon. Chelsea Manning, who leaked the info to him, the actual whistleblower who broke the laws, is a free woman. (Could you imagine if Chelsea tried to transition to a woman in Russia or China or other nations that are coming up in this thread in comparison? Just goes to show how fundamentally different these societies are, that she could transition to a woman while incarcerated!) If Assange hadn't played his games avoiding the court for the better part of a decade, the dude would probably already have done his time and be free. Although it's entertaining to read the astronomically terrible takes in this thread, I did hope to see a little more intelligence in this community.
- throwaway21_ 5y agoWhy would he do any time at all? Because the people who actually should be doing time are the people in power so they are somehow immune? Also, Chelsea could transition to a woman without prison too. The fact that they ended/will end in prison while people who actually committed crimes that these two (and Snowden) exposed speaks volumes about how fundamentally different USA is.
- criley2 5y agoWell "throwaway21", interesting that every time this topic comes up, brand new accounts come out of the woodwork. I'm not going to accuse you of being a political actor, but I would point out that Wikileaks exists as part of a new realm of state-funded and state-coordinated private intelligence services created to retain plausible deniability. When certain state funded operations come up, the comment sections do always seem to fill with oddly named brand new accounts, on this website and many others! What a weird coincidence. As per his crimes, he is charged with a relatively minor criminal offense stemming from his assistance in attempting to crack a password hash to gain unauthorized access to military computers -- a crime that would also be charged in any other western nation. Imagine hiding from a 5 year max sentence for 10 years. Oof. As for Reality, she really could not have transitioned in Russia and China regardless of prison, that was the point you missed. But as to her crime, yes I do think that the idea of classification and state secrets have merit and that members of the military who violate that can be punished.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y agoChristmas came early. This is great news.
- rjsw 5y agoThe one-sided UK-US extradition treaty has never been a good idea, not sure how his defence team can argue against extradition with it in place.
- was_a_dev 5y agoAll deals with the US are one-sided. It's their foreign policy
- callamdelaney 5y agoThat's basically bollocks, isn't it?
- Mvandenbergh 5y agoThis was inevitable to anyone who read the original ruling. What I said 11 months ago: " actually don't think this is such great news for him. Extradition was specifically blocked on the grounds of a particular regime he might be subjected to (to be fair, probably the only legal grounds on which he had any chance of succeeding). That leaves the US with a way out if they want to proceed with the extradition - guarantee a different set of circumstances. If the judge had found on more substantive grounds, those would have been much more resistant to that. For instance, all the claims based on language in the extradition treaty and other international agreements failed and they failed for pretty fundamental legal reasons. English courts only have regard for domestic law and it is for parliament to pass laws consistent with the treaties that have been signed, therefore claims based on treaty language won't work. That means that none of the claims on the political nature of his activities were upheld and those would have provided a much more robust and durable bar to extradition."
- kingcharles 5y agoI don't know how other countries deal with treaties, but the USA tends to ignore all the treaties it has signed unless it has also created a statute in federal or state law to enforce it.
- m-watson 5y agoIt isn't exactly ignore, they just all have to be ratified by the Senate. Otherwise it is just the executive branch making an agreement. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_Clause https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_Clause
- Mvandenbergh 5y agoThe US is actually quite far in the "monist" side of the spectrum when it comes to ratified treaties but it has such a divided and dysfunctional political culture coupled with an executive which has wide latitude in foreign affairs that many agreements are signed up to by the executive without being ratified by the senate. Monism basically means that properly entered into, international treaties have force as domestic law as well. The UK is one of the world's most dualist countries. No treaty has any domestic legal standing whatsoever. Until 2010, the government of the day could ratify treaties without recourse to parliament although there has been an observed rule since the early 20th century called the Ponsonby rule that parliament have time to debate and vote on important treaties. The government cannot make domestic statute law without a parliamentary vote therefore dualism emerged. This means that the UK has to pass a "back to back" law to give legal effect to any treaty it signs where that is required. The US only has to do so when there are elements of the treaty that are plainly not "self executing" i.e. if the US signs a treaty creating a personal right for its own citizens then no further legislation is required but if it signs a treaty agreeing to do something that requires new appropriations, a new agency, or whatever then additional legislation is required. Quite a long-winded way of saying that Assange never had recourse to certain claims his legal team attempted to make about conflicts between his treatment and the extradition treaty - the extradition treaty does not directly drive UK domestic law on extradition.
- ttybird 5y agoDoes that mean that Anne Sacoolas will be extradited to the UK?
- pydry 5y agoSmall chance. Being the servile lap dog of the United States is official Tory policy.
- bladegash 5y agoThe framing of Assange as an innocent “journalist” being persecuted for just doing his job is, in my opinion, disingenuous. I do not necessarily agree with all the actions the US Government has taken with him, or their handling of some of the information that was leaked. However, I do not agree that a “journalist” should be able to enable espionage, let alone encourage/incite it. In case my point is unclear, I consider setting up a website purely designed to encourage leaking of potentially classified information and assisting with the ability to do so as being no different than any other criminal conspiracy. Further, I am of the opinion, being someone who was quite literally in Afghanistan when he leaked the information he did, that any probative value of the information Manning leaked was overshadowed by the indiscriminate way in which it was done. Assange is an activist, not a journalist. He should not be treated as such and much of the consequences he suffers now (e.g., confinement during appeal) is directly related to his own actions (e.g., fleeing to an Embassy).
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- yesbut 5y agoAssange is more of an editor / publisher. This is akin to the Washington Post publishing the Pentagon Papers. As a reminder, this is why the US wants to punish Assange: > Wikileaks reveals video showing US air crew shooting down Iraqi civilians > https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/apr/05/wikileaks-us-army-iraq-attack https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/apr/05/wikileaks-us-a...
- bladegash 5y agoIf you think that is the information that he is being punished for is that video, you clearly did not look at what he leaked closely enough. Likewise, if you think leaking the pentagon papers is the same as leaking all diplomatic cables and operational communications from a period of time is the same thing, not sure I can say much to change your opinion.
- yesbut 5y ago
- HeckFeck 5y agoThe modern security state has made an example. Be silent and compliant and they might leave you alone.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago'First they came for' definitely applies. The chilling message it sends is hard to mistake by anything other than a warning.
- nextstep 5y agoIf Assange is transferred to US custody, there is a strong chance he will be killed (and possibly in a way that makes it look “accidental”). The CIA was actively planning for such scenarios in 2017: https://news.yahoo.com/kidnapping-assassination-and-a-london-shoot-out-inside-the-ci-as-secret-war-plans-against-wiki-leaks-090057786.html https://news.yahoo.com/kidnapping-assassination-and-a-london...
- meepmorp 5y agoThere's no point in killing him. He's done his damage; punishing him by letting him rot in prison is worse.
- harabat 5y agoFrom https://defend.wikileaks.org/ https://defend.wikileaks.org/, here are some ways to support Julian: - Donate to WikiLeaks Official Defence Fund: https://defend.wikileaks.org/donate https://defend.wikileaks.org/donate - Sign petitions: https://bit.do/free-assange https://bit.do/free-assange, https://bit.do/free-assange-uk https://bit.do/free-assange-uk (UK specifically) - Contact politicians, unions, charities to inform and urge to act - Inform yourself and others - Social media: #ProtectJulian, #FreeAssange
- bob999 5y agoLock him up and throw away the key, he’s a sex offender
- johnson42 5y agoFor further context I highly suggest the articles from Nils Melzer (UN Special Rapporteur on Torture and other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment): https://www.republik.ch/2020/01/31/nils-melzer-about-wikileaks-founder-julian-assange https://www.republik.ch/2020/01/31/nils-melzer-about-wikilea... https://medium.com/@njmelzer/demasking-the-torture-of-julian-assange-b252ffdcb768 https://medium.com/@njmelzer/demasking-the-torture-of-julian... https://medium.com/@njmelzer/response-to-open-letter-of-1-july-2019-7222083dafc8 https://medium.com/@njmelzer/response-to-open-letter-of-1-ju... https://www.democracynow.org/2019/11/22/nils_melzer_julian_assange https://www.democracynow.org/2019/11/22/nils_melzer_julian_a...
- harabat 5y agoFrom https://www.democracynow.org/2019/11/22/nils_melzer_julian_assange https://www.democracynow.org/2019/11/22/nils_melzer_julian_a... > "He will be certainly exposed to an arbitrary trial, if he — in the U.K., extradition trial. The choreography is clear. Whatever his lawyers say, in the end, the U.K. judges will say, “Yes, of course, we cannot extradite him if there’s death penalty or torture or treatment, so, please, U.S., make assurances.” The U.S. will obviously make these assurances, and then the U.K. will say, “Then we have no reason not to trust the U.S.” And they will extradite him to the U.S. That’s what I foresee. And that’s what he expect he will hear. And that’s the crux here. In addition to the ill treatment he has already suffered, I am absolutely convinced that he will not get a fair trial. He’ll get a show trial in East Virginia, and he’ll end up in prison under inhumane conditions for the rest of his life. That needs to be prevented." The whole article is worth reading: Melzer initially was extremely opposed to even looking into Assange's case (his negative view of Assange having been molded by media, as he states), and describes how his view evolved immediately after starting working on this, assessing him, etc.
- 1cvmask 5y agoJoe Biden was not kidding around when he said America is back. Much better than Trump who was a clowinish buffonish sheep in wolf's clothing obsessed with his twitter account. He was so incompetent he could not start one new war. Meanwhile there is a twitter blackout on following the Ghislaine Maxwell case.
- kwere 5y agohis incompetence as outsider was the best thing of his administration, truly an eye opener of the big gov selfserving nature
- unknownus3r 5y agoWhat do you mean by the blackout of the Maxwell case? Do you mean that maxwell trial tracker was banned? That account was from a guy who isn’t at the trial heavily editorializing and frankly bullshitting and speculating about the case. You can see the sort of fabricated nonsense he’s posting on gab if you want. If Twitter is going after true, factual accounts of the trial I would be very interested to know that
- xaduha 5y agoSurely he has some sort of a dead man's switch aka doomsday files that US doesn't want out there, there was something about encrypted 'insurance' files. I don't think US is doing it out of principle, they want to have a deal with him. Or maybe that data is no longer relevant or was a bluff to begin with.
- mhh__ 5y agoThere is a lot of "he will be killed" in this thread. I suppose that's not impossible, but it seems remarkably brazen for almost no real benefit to the government.
- DoItToMe81 5y agoThe US government has already discussed murdering him, which tends to leave people shocked and suspicious.
- iam-TJ 5y ago"Kidnapping, assassination and a London shoot-out: Inside the CIA's secret war plans against WikiLeaks" [0] 26th September 2021 Yahoo News Kidnapping, assassination and a London shoot-out: Inside the CIA's secret war plans against WikiLeaks Zach Dorfman, Sean D. Naylor and Michael Isikoff September 26, 2021, 10:00 AM·39 min read In this article: In 2017, as Julian Assange began his fifth year holed up in Ecuador’s embassy in London, the CIA plotted to kidnap the WikiLeaks founder, spurring heated debate among Trump administration officials over the legality and practicality of such an operation. Some senior officials inside the CIA and the Trump administration even discussed killing Assange, going so far as to request“sketches”or“options”for how to assassinate him. Discussions over kidnapping or killing Assange occurred at the highest levels”of the Trump administration, said a former senior counterintelligence official. “There seemed to be no boundaries.” [0] https://news.yahoo.com/kidnapping-assassination-and-a-london-shoot-out-inside-the-ci-as-secret-war-plans-against-wiki-leaks-090057786.html https://news.yahoo.com/kidnapping-assassination-and-a-london...
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y agoTalk is cheap. Did they carry it out?
- mhh__ 5y agoMy thoughts exactly.
- PoignardAzur 5y ago
- lettergram 5y agoTo fully appreciate the context: - he’s not a us citizen - none of the “crimes” happened on US soil - he’s a world famous journalist with prior work - was charged with bogus crimes in Europe in an attempt to arrest him. All dropped - the person who stole the files he released is already free and the tax payers paid for their transition
- ynth7 5y agoTo fully appreciate the context; Americans rely on cheap labor to have nice stuff Don’t see any of you organizing when the context is “how I’m benefiting from immorality.” I’ll take high minded individuals seriously when they take themselves seriously You’re all just meatbags with electricity and bullshit running through you
- micromacrofoot 5y agonone of these things matter when charging someone with a crime? non-citizens are charged for hacking from foreign countries all the time. You’re also making an unwarranted dig at trans people.
- DonHopkins 5y ago>- the person who stole the files he released is already free and the tax payers paid for their transition HER transition. Stop misgendering people. Since you used "he/he's/him" to refer to Assange four times, then you should have used "her" to refer to Manning, unless you were just trying to make the point that you're transphobic. And there are more polite ways of telling people you're transphobic than misgendering other people: just come out and admit it. Edit: changed the second "she" to "her", to match the initial all caps "HER", and included "he's" and "him". Happier?
- bennyp101 5y ago"the person who stole the files he released is already free and the tax payers paid for she transition " eh?
- CommanderData 5y ago
- sally_glance 5y agoGood thing we have the Summit for Democracy [1] going on right now where they will surely discuss the threat of imprisoning journalists and whistleblowers. /s [1] https://www.state.gov/summit-for-democracy/ https://www.state.gov/summit-for-democracy/
- kstenerud 5y agoThis should be a sobering view of how the world really works. Above a certain threshold, every veneer of civilization vanishes no matter what the country (some have a higher threshold than others). At this level, only power matters. And the first rule of power is: Don't embarrass the powerful unless you can call on a lot of power to defend yourself. Laws can't protect you; they can be thwarted and bent, and the legal process "guided" to the required outcome. International organizations can't protect you; they can only register complaints that will be duly ignored by everyone if the champion is important enough. Even countries can't protect you at this level; they're beholden to power themselves after a certain point. This is the message to would-be activists anywhere: Stay out of the big boy pool or we'll make you regret it.
- zoe4883 5y agoIt took 10 years for most powerful entity on earth, I would call that success for Snowden. Real moral of this story is from how it started. With a date and broken condom.
- tata71 5y agoHow many errors can fit into such a short comment!
- zoe4883 5y agoCall it what you want. But I think international rules and his rights, were respected reasonably well. Only charges he faced for very long time were for rape. If he kept his zipper closed, while going against US gov, he could freely travel and argue political imprisonment as a journalist. He would be now drinking vodka with Snowden.
- impendingchange 5y agoThere is a deeper level to this event. Discovery is a bitch.
- pydry 5y agoI suspect Assange doesn't regret this. I kind of get the impression that becoming a martyr was a sacrifice he was prepared to make if he managed to rip off the mask and expose the unbridled imperialist evil lurking underneath the "civilized press conference veneer" presented by the US government.
- nathias 5y agoRIP Assange, he sacrificed himself to reveal what everyone knew. I'm not sure that this was good, lately I think politicians just kind of stopped pretending and I liked it better when they at least put their human faces on for the public ...
- realce 5y agoFabricate a narrative that allows your country to murder tens of thousands of people == fine and not illegal. Tell soldier how cryptographic maths work == double castration and the CIA tries to assassinate you. Don't forget that the Collateral Murder video showed not only Iraqi citizens but also Reuters journalists being machine-gunned from the sky. No person has ever been criminally charged for these murders.
- queuebert 5y agoAs an American, I find it very hard to decide what to think about these issues. Our military certainly makes mistakes, and people should be held accountable, but on the other hand the U.S. upholds much stricter rules of engagement than any of its enemies (hell, even stricter than our cops). Should credit not be given for that?
- justicezyx 5y ago> Our military certainly makes mistakes, and people should be held accountable, but on the other hand the U.S. upholds much stricter rules of engagement than any of its enemies (hell, even stricter than our cops). Should credit not be given for that? Why comparing with enemies? Should one or an org strive to be the best according to a universal standard?
- realce 5y ago> but on the other hand the U.S. upholds much stricter rules of engagement than any of its enemies (hell, even stricter than our cops). Should credit not be given for that? In all honesty and at the very minimum, being criticized openly and fairly for atrocities is the cost of being seen as capable of virtuous military action. The older I get though, the less objective distinction I see. I'm sure that's how the dead felt in their last moment as well. Just look at the last US bombing in Afghanistan where they hit the car full of water and children. We like to act like there's a higher standard, but who will ever be held accountable for that mistake? Nobody.
- queuebert 5y ago
- wazoox 5y ago"Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed: everything else is public relations." George Orwell
- throwrqX 5y agoA particular note on the famous "Collateral Murder" video that Wikileaks released. Despite many saying this shows cold blooded murder or something similar even a cursory look at the wikipedia page[1] shows the context was that the military men thought they saw a group with several people having weapons (in this case AK-47s and RPGs, something Assange himself agreed with) and combined with the fact there was a firefight nearby decided these people are terrorists and thus killed them. Not to deter from any legal consequences this seems to be an accident stemming from incorrect identification and the drone operators acted thinking this group were terrorists, not that they just randomly killed these people for fun like many people believe. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_12,_2007,_Baghdad_airstrike#Attack_on_a_building https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_12,_2007,_Baghdad_airstri...
- guilhas 5y agoGoing back to the land of the free! USA the country with the most jailed in the world, even China with 5x more population It is baffling how they keep lecturing the world
- Zigurd 5y agoAssange knowingly became a front for a Russian disinformation op against the US. he was a factor in helping Putin bring the US to its darkest days politically. He also released a lot of important factual information Americans did not know. Both are true. One does not negate the other.
- beeboop 5y agoThis is all entirely unsubstantiated. There is no evidence for any of this, and it's very blatantly misinformation and propaganda. It keeps getting repeated so frequently as to look like astroturfing.
- Starlevel001 5y agoITT: hacker news users grappling with the consequences of their own ideology
- unknownus3r 5y agoI’m from the US and from my perspective he’s certainly an enemy of my country and working to undermine it. A country cannot function if nameless underlings do not carry out the agenda set forth by the elected and appointed people in charge. There are many problems with entrenched bureaucracy but having secrets leaked weakens American power and our government’s ability to handle the problems we face. If you see mudge’s talk about him from way back when, the grudge he holds against the US may be just over funding research. Inciting and assisting Americans who have sworn to protect our secrets to leak them is something I think needs to be stopped as a National security threat. There are a lot of disingenuous comparisons calling this guy a journalist, he’s a lot more than that. Assange is a former hacker and professor and present day activist. Undeniably bright and I respect his technical skills but he’s working against the United States. I’ll say this, though, he’s probably the most trustworthy journalist that walks the earth, sadly
- mandmandam 5y agoIf you love America then why would you allow brazen warmongers to put us trillions in debt, profiting immensely while doing so? Do you have any idea how far America's international reputation has fallen? Do you have any conception of the debt that has been incurred in the name of the American taxpayer? Do the lives of millions of dead and tens of millions of displaced people around the world mean nothing to you? Assange showed America necessary truth, and even as you admit this you argue Americans would be better left ignorant, digesting whatever shit the billionaire class decide to feed them. That's not just short sighted, my friend, it's fucking evil. That's not hyperbole - that's evil by about every definition ever invented.
- unknownus3r 5y agoI don’t see what Assange really showed me that I didn’t know from reading most anything else before his leaks. Your post is highly politically motivated, I’m not emotional about this, just thinking rationally. I agree that the US has overextended its military and is involved in a lot of conflicts and operations that seem very irrelevant and poorly reasoned. I want a revamp of the military industrial complex and a change to entrenched, unaccountable bureaucracy. I don’t think any of those things have anything to do with Assange however, and I don’t see any connection between them
- dukeofdoom 5y agoLegality of publishing leaked or stolen materials, is essential part of press freedom. So it will be an interesting case to watch to go through the US courts. Recently James Okeefe was raided by the FBI. The reason was that he was given Ashley Biden's Diary (President Biden's adult daughter), and published things in it. He offered to return the diary to Ashley's Lawyers, but that would have authenticated it. The FBI raided him, which I suppose they would not do for a fictional diary. But I think its fairly obvious journalists should be able to publish leaked information. Not so obvious who the FBI works for. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/06/us/politics/james-okeefe-project-veritas-ashley-biden.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/06/us/politics/james-okeefe-...
- andrewla 5y agoThis is not the end of the world -- he has not been convicted of any crimes in the United States; there is just sufficient prima facie evidence to warrant extradition. I'm hopeful that in a trial he'll be able to mount an effective defense and that in the end we'll get a wonderful victory for free speech. I'm looking forward to being able to donate to his legal defense fund; I see that there are some gofundme things out there, but I worry they might be scams so I'm waiting until I see something more official to contribute. Given his poor physical and mental health, however, that may not be in the cards; he may end up not making it to trial or compelled to accept a plea bargain for a lesser charge in order to put the matter to rest.
- echopurity 5y agoThat explains the recent propaganda about journalists in China.
- guilhas 5y agoGoing back to the land of the free! USA the country with the most jailed in the world It is baffling how they keep lecturing the world
- kingcharles 5y agoI'll leave this here... "The mood and temper of the public in regard to the treatment of crime and criminals is one of the most unfailing tests of the civilisation of any country." — Winston S. Churchill https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1910/jul/20/class-iii#column_1354 https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1910/jul/...
- pjfin123 5y agoThe only difference between what Assange did and what "legitimate" journalists do is to publish embarrassing truths about those in power instead of uncritically publishing what the national security apparatus intentionally leaks.
- rogerian 5y agoReally saddened that the UK not able to stand up to the US on this
- kingcharles 5y agoOne problem is that he likely won't be held in a prison, he'll be held in a pre-trial detention facility. The conditions in pre-trial detention in the USA, on the whole, are considerably worse than any prison because they are designed for "short-term" holding only. I did a deposition a few years back with the warden of a detention facility and asked him why the conditions were so bad. "The average stay here is 30 days", which justified everything. That figure came because a large number of people were able to bond out on day one and skewed the average he was using. It did not take into account the significant number of people who were in the facility for close to a decade or more awaiting trial. For instance, at the Cook County Jail in Chicago there are several people who have been waiting over 11 years and still have no trial in sight. A lot of pre-trial facilities do not have any access to sunlight. I was held in a windowless room for five years with 24x7 fluorescent lighting and no access to sunlight or fresh air. Then I was held at another facility for three years that had a sealed "window" but also, essentially, no access to sunlight or fresh air. In prisons you will generally find that you can get outside several times a week. But prisons are usually only used for those who have been convicted of a crime, and not those presumed innocent.
- CRConrad 5y ago> I did a deposition a few years back with the warden of a detention facility and asked him why the conditions were so bad. "The average stay here is 30 days", which justified everything. That figure came because a large number of people were able to bond out on day one and skewed the average he was using. It did not take into account the significant number of people who were in the facility for close to a decade or more awaiting trial. For instance, at the Cook County Jail in Chicago there are several people who have been waiting over 11 years and still have no trial in sight. So the relevant measurement ought to have been the average stay of the inmates actually there at any one time, right?
- JackFaker 5y agowow. Can you provide any more detail on your time held in detention at these facilities?
- roody15 5y agoIts sad but the ideals of Western Civilization / Democracy have really sunk in the last couple of decades. Most ideals of a free press and democratic rule appear to be nothing more than marketing tools that the powerful elite use to keep people compliant.
- jl6 5y agoShocking as it was, the Collateral Murder video was nothing exceptional. It didn’t reveal any secret truth or grand conspiracy. The unfortunate fact is that this is just what war is like. War means high-stakes decision-making using low-quality information by agents who are human and therefore fallible. War means chaos and brutality and unjust death on a grand scale. When you vote for war, this is what you get, no matter how good your intentions. It happens every day in every war. The only difference here is that it was caught on camera and released. So what did Assange achieve by releasing this video? We already knew war is bad. The existence of the video just evidences that the US military is good at record-keeping, which if anything points to an institution that cares about the actions of its soldiers and is capable, in principle, of holding them to account, rather than just unleashing men with guns to do random unsupervised violence, which is what war looks like in many corners of the world. The people to get angry with are the politicians and media pundits who who rush other peoples’ kids to war for trumped up jingoistic reasons, not the kids who inevitably fuck up the operation on the ground.
- pessimizer 5y agoWhy report on, or even prevent war crimes? You can't help but commit war crimes, and you can't help but cover them up, even if your intentions were wonderful. What's important is that we're theoretically capable of holding people to account, even if in practice we're burning videotapes of torture.
- peppermint_tea 5y ago100% agree on everything you said. I would just add that all this violence should be shown without any kind of censorship to (in this case) the american people at supper time. I wonder how fast the public opinion would change then...
- the_optimist 5y agoA pretty smart guy once said, “if wars can be started by lies, perhaps peace can be started by the truth.”
- nickysielicki 5y agoSurprisingly few technical people understand the extent to which the CFAA charges he faces are bullshit. It all goes back to a jabber log that they got from Manning. The gist of it is as follows: Manning: <some bytes from a hexdump> Manning: can you guys crack NTLM? Assange: we have rainbow tables. I’ll forward it onto someone on our team. Few days later, Manning: any update on NTLM? Assange: no luck so far. And this is computer conspiracy. No additional access to any machine was had, and there’s no real evidence that any cracking was attempted at all. He merely agreed to take a look and reported no progress on it. It’s been a while since I looked at the details but I seem to recall that the pcap hexdump manning sent wasn’t even the correct bytes to do an attack — it wasn’t even possible. There are so many explanations for why Assange could have said this while plausibly not attempting to crack the hash. Manning put him in a strange position to become complicit and he had to strike a balance between not saying to his source, “lol that’s illegal no way, you’re on your own dude” while simultaneously saying exactly that.
- jessaustin 5y agos/Assange/Nathaniel Frank/ Manning was chatting with "Nathaniel Frank". That was understood to be a pseudonym for someone at Wikileaks, but there's no proof of any of that. So, these charges are even more bullshit.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y agoSo Assange can say, under oath, that he is not Nathaniel Frank. Boom. Case closed- US govt looks stupid. Assange walks. I do not care about the verdict of the trial. I care a lot that a trial takes place. Sunlight is the best disinfectant. Everybody is presupposing the result of this and being outraged rather than waiting and seeing what happens. He is innocent until proven guilty.
- cwkoss 5y agoI fully expect the US to select a judge for this case that will not give Assange the slightest bit of generosity. I hope you're right, but I'm much more cynical about the impartiality of the judiciary.
- pulse7 5y agoSo here we go again... Number of journalists in jail reaches global high (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29495145 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29495145) and United States would like to contribute to this high number...
- jetsetgo 5y agoAmericans so aggressive to cry China bad yet do this stuff to their whistle blowers.
- anon012012 5y agoHaving hidden agendas and hidden organizations is an act of War and government officials should be dealt with the harshest sanction for the crime of Treason to Humanity. I'm not even trolling, and I'm not even started.
- choward 5y agoWhat are you talking about? The US government? I agree that many in the government have hidden agendas and are traitors.
- publiush 5y agoIt is thanks to Julian that we know how important information is.
- guilhas 5y agoGoing back to the land of the free USA the country with the most jailed in the world, even China has less with 4x more population
- foxyv 5y agoAssange is sort of my barometer for US politicians views on the 1st amendment. If they don't support a pardon, clemency, or an end to the harassing investigation into him then I know they are bereft of any moral compass and will happily shred the US constitution for campaign contributions.
- boomboomsubban 5y agoBoth a pardon and clemency imply that he committed crimes and the politician is just in favor of forgiving him for public support. This could still have damming repercussions for a free press, as his case could set precedent that publishing documents is illegal. The charges should be dropped.
- foxyv 5y agoYeah, definitely bonus points for an immunity from prosecution.
- torcete 5y agoI always compare this case with Pinochet, when he visited the UK and a Spanish court asked for his extradition for crimes against humanity. Of course, he wasn't and returned to Chile.
- atomashpolskiy 5y agoWhat's with people's opinion on this? E.g. https://www.change.org/p/free-julian-assange-before-it-s-too-late-stop-usa-extradition https://www.change.org/p/free-julian-assange-before-it-s-too... Signed by 666,000 people. I even donated 10 bucks or so back in the day to advance this petition. Did UK court take this public opinion into consideration when when ruling the verdict? I'm pissed as hell. What are the realistic options for ordinary people like me to stop Julian's torture?
- busymom0 5y agoI don’t think those change dot org petitions ever achieve anything.
- pier25 5y agoDo you think this is just momentum from US justice system or maybe someone or some group is inflicting pressure for this to happen?
- busymom0 5y agoThis happening on Human Rights Day is ironic. Plus looks like US and the UK today also grandstanding by “sanctioning” countries with human rights abuse. It’s all such a farce. This gov page is such a joke: https://www.state.gov/subjects/press-freedom/ https://www.state.gov/subjects/press-freedom/
- Melting_Harps 5y ago> This is the message to would-be activists anywhere: Stay out of the big boy pool or we'll make you regret it. The thing is they did this so systematically, Jacob Applebaum also got hit with rape allegations and that took out a very vocal person in the OPSEC/INFOSEC community at TOR who openly engaged in the various communities that were most afflicted by Imperialism and needed this tech the most in the developed World. I don't know Jacob, and never met him in person the closest being with him on a few chatrooms I joined late around one of the CCC conferences; it was very telling that after Julian's rape charges were dropped Jacob (a very well known cypherpunk within Julian's circle) had his fall from grace at the height of the me-too craze and this happened when Laura's documentary came out on Julian Assange after Edward Snowden's had come out earlier in 2014. The cynic in me said this looked like typical Media Blackout but with Nation-State repercussions. The State of the Onion was always covered in so many media outlets, and Jacob's candor and open hostility towards tyrants was partly the reason for that. I still remember the face of all the suits when he went to Egypt after the Arab Spring and told off the Telecoms for being aligned with the Mubarack regime until the last days, all while trying to play up the idea of Egyptian solidarity post-collapse. I doubt this will ever entirely deter whistleblowing and freedom fighting entirely, it's never been a large segment of the population, either. But those who do so have an immense impact is often felt all over the World: Steven Donziger after being jailed, and now released on house arrest, seems undeterred from continuing what he started [0]: > Donziger, who had already spent over two years under house arrest before his prison sentence, vowed to continue fighting for his freedom and to hold Chevron accountable for its crimes. People forget that prior to Wikileaks, and the Cypherpunk mailing list, Julian was the son of a politically active, anti-nuclear mother and that he had hacked into several departments of the DoD, supposedly to find more intel on Nuclear sites. He pleaded guilty in 1994 and got a fine and it only made him more determined than he was before. He was a known target by the intelligence agencies for some time. Having been in the CCC (I miss these so much as they were the best part of this time of year for me) and Bitcoin community for over 10 years Julian was always around; Julian thanking the US for making Wikileaks millions (from donation appreciation in 2010 onward) after denying Wikileaks Visa and MC payment processing and forcing them to use Bitcoin was the highlight of that year for me. It has been hard to see what has happened to him since he was forced to stay in the Ecuadorian embassy, it was clear his mental health was degrading and the once flamboyant and silver-tongued activist was slowly being destroyed from within. I'm not sure how much of him is left anymore, and I even spoke to a friend about this over the summer during the hearings, that the guy in prison is likely no longer the same person who ran wikileaks. He seems like a shell of his former self that I'm afraid to say seems in poor physical and mental after all he has gone through--it's why I don't be grudge Jacob from simply fading into oblivion, it's simply self-perseverance. I say this with a hjeavy heart: I doubt he would even make it to trail at this rate. A part of me always wondered if this was always going to be Julian's fate, hoping it never would of course, but when you're this prominent and this big a threat to the intelligence agencies of the only super power left in the World known to commit crimes against Humanity you have to believe you're probably on borrowed time the moment they know who you are. Which to me is why projects like anon-based whistle blowing, an early Bitcoin project that never gained much traction and eventually abandoned, was always fundamental in order to avoid situations like these while still enuring a viable option for those who want to release info to the public. I fear a World in which whistle blowing doesn't take place, and I don't mean the kind like Frances Haugen who is looking at an immense payday for stating the obvious on a platform that is becoming less relevant by the day and have even re-branded entirely, but those like: Chelsea Manning, Thomas Drake, Bill Binney etc... May those who do have the courage to come forward have unwavering souls, because the World is a darker place without them. 0: https://www.democracynow.org/2021/12/10/headlines/environmental_lawyer_steven_donziger_released_to_serve_rest_of_prison_sentence_from_home https://www.democracynow.org/2021/12/10/headlines/environmen...
- guilhas 5y agoGoing back to the land of the free! USA the country with the most jailed in the world, even China with 4x more population It is baffling how they keep lecturing the world
- dang 5y agoEdit: yikes—you've been repeatedly posting a bunch of these flamewar comments. That's obviously a bannable offence on HN. Also, you've been using HN primarily for ideological battle. That's also a line at which we ban accounts: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=primarily%20test%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme... I'm not going to ban you right now, because you've also posted good comments in the past—but if you do anything like this again, we will have to. If you want to continue to be part of the community here, you're welcome, but we need you to review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and use HN as intended. That means thoughtful, substantive conversation—no more ideological flamebait and certainly no more vandalism like you've been doing lately. --- original comment: Please don't post nationalistic flamebait to HN, regardless of which country, and regardless of how right you are (or feel you are) about the underlying issues. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
- glenstein 5y agoI just want to note that, as of 2012, numerous Hacker News commenters were confidently declaring Assange would never be extradited to USA. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4390885 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4390885