90 ms·

Hertz orders 100k Teslas

300 points by BayAreaEscapee 5y ago

CodeWriter23 5y ago
Not the first EV order of this scale. https://insideevs.com/news/371826/amazon-electric-delivery-trucks-rivian/ https://insideevs.com/news/371826/amazon-electric-delivery-t...
uxp100 5y ago
I assume there is a little bit of a "meme stock" element to this, the reddit folks will love it, but I think I would pay a small premium for an electric car when renting (unless I needed long distance). More likely I pay a premium for that than for than the higher end ICE car options at car rental.
- zibzab 5y ago
  The problem is that when you are renting from Hertz you are probably new to the area and don't know where you are going and if there are any charging stations nearby.
  - thehappypm 5y ago
    Teslas won't be the only option, if you have range anxiety then just take a Camry.
  - uxp100 5y ago
    My main car rental situation was travelling to work headquarters where I had in the past lived, and renting cars for weekend trips because I did not own one. In both cases I would choose electric and was familiar with the area. But I may not be typical.
  - DarmokJalad1701 5y ago
    The car will route you to a charging station if needed.
  - buildsjets 5y ago
    That sounds like a 20’th century problem. Most of us have smartphones these days, which typically come pre-loaded with navigation software.
    - bdamm 5y ago
      And in this case, the car may soon drive you there anyhow.
Waterluvian 5y ago
I was very pessimistic about Tesla and confused by their stock price. But I now believe that they indeed are doing it and that we’re finally at the EV revolution. I’m not an early adopter type and the Teslas don’t excite me at all, but I’m really delighted that the market is evolving. I’m delighted that I was wrong.
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  It's not going to be a revolution despite all the EV bull market folks say, it will be an orderly transition, people are slow to change and adapt and STEM people should accept that. Electric cars are not in any way an order of magnitude upgrade in tech, which is a necessary trait for any technology that claims to be disruptive. Sure from a green perspective it is but not from a pragmatic one. I of course welcome the change. :)
  - unpolloloco 5y ago
    I'd claim it's pragmatic too - but only if you have ability to charge at home AND you have an ICE car as well (maybe). Halving the cost of commute is highly pragmatic! This applies to something like half the population right now (in the US). And we're on the path to alleviate issues for the other half of the population in the next few to several years. The other major issue (which is probably the bigger one) is that car manufacturers other than Tesla can't seem to actually get out enough cars to do anything other than supply California and maybe NY. Teslas are expensive and have a litany of quality issues that push "regulars" away from them. Once Hyundai has an electric that has inventory nationwide at a reasonable price, then we have a revolutionary orderly transition on our hands.
  - chinathrow 5y ago
    > It's not going to be a revolution despite all the EV bull market folks say https://www.drive.com.au/news/norway-to-hit-100-per-cent-electric-vehicle-sales-by-next-year/ https://www.drive.com.au/news/norway-to-hit-100-per-cent-ele... I'd call that a revolution on a small country scale.
- SavantIdiot 5y ago
oflannabhra 5y ago
This news should take into account the current rental car market situation: that is, absolutely bananas. Rental companies buy cars on leverage, and sell them used after a short lifespan. They sold off their inventory at the start of the pandemic and now can’t refill due to chip shortages, etc. The used market is also crazy inflated, currently, but these companies couldn’t take advantage of that appreciation.
aqzman 5y ago
I say this having never driven a Tesla, but are they really suitable rental cars? My understanding is that Tesla vehicles differ quite a bit from regular ICE vehicles, to the point that there's a bit of a learning curve to operating the car. I'd be interested to hear from a Tesla owner on this. Maybe it's a non-issue.
- 1123581321 5y ago
  Try a test drive sometime. The Tesla stores only need to give a minute of explanation. A rental employee would do the same thing. They are easy to understand.
- xiphias2 5y ago
  As a non-Tesla owner, I'd love to rent a Tesla on my vacations just to try it before deciding on buying one. I'd say it's much better for renting than buying, as I know how I would use it beforehand.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
    > As a non-Tesla owner, I'd love to rent a Tesla on my vacations just to try it before deciding on buying one. Me too. I actually looked into that a few months ago. In Boston Massachusetts, there is this place: https://www.teslarents.com/ https://www.teslarents.com/ But we were going to San Francisco not Boston, and there was nothing that I could google up. With the exception of Oslo, Norway; I've never seen so many Teslas as I did in the Bay area, but it seemed really hard to rent one for a few days. Maybe by the next time that I'm there a Tesla 3 will be standard at Hertz, but in 2021 you'll be lucky to get a Nissan. The competence and availability of even that, was low.
    - bkev 5y ago
      Try Turo. There tend to be quite a few Teslas there. https://turo.com/ https://turo.com/
      - 5y ago
llampx 5y ago
Where I live, it is exceedingly hard to get anything electric or even hybrid as a rental. Sometimes I wonder why that is. There are companies offering EVs for short-term rentals by the minute or hour, but not as many of the big companies which seem to treat EVs more as a curiosity and group them with Maseratis or Luxury SUVs in terms of price and availability. I hope this news is enough to shake up the leadership at the other car rental companies.
- zht 5y ago
  Probably cause it’s hard to get people to charge them before they get returned
  - llampx 5y ago
    Why wouldn't they just apply the same usury rates they apply for gasoline tanks that are not given full to electric cars?
    - easton 5y ago
      They could, but I don't know if people would like it. When you're running late for a flight it takes three minutes to drive through the (somewhat overpriced) airport gas station and throw $20 in the tank, but with an electric car that could be twenty minutes (assuming the airport had a charger available). Which means you're stuck paying Hertz to fill it for you at their crazy markup. Of course, the answer with most electric car charging questions is "charge it at home", which is great when you own the car, but when you're on a trip who knows what the hotel's infrastructure will be like.
    - NikolaeVarius 5y ago
      I can do an after hours return with a gas car at 3am and spend the 3 minutes to fill up the tank before I leave it on the lot. You can't really do that with an electric car unless you want to pay a extremely high fillup cost
      - 5y ago
watt 5y ago
In Germany this marked niche is so under-served, there's a whole company (Nextmove) dedicated to rentals of electric cars. They position themselves as "try before you buy" experience, so you can do an extended test over multiple days to see if the car fits you.
- leobg 5y ago
  There is also Future Rent [1], which allows you to rent electric cars from individual owners. [1] https://www.future.rent/ https://www.future.rent/
  - Gustomaximus 5y ago
    There must be a business in tying purchase into rental companies in general. Rent car X and get your money back if you buy one in the next 3 months type thing. Or "like the car you hire, pay X and keep it". There would have to be margin in that as rental companies usually sell cars to dealers quite early in their life and dealers are only going to pay bottom dollar.
- kl7k78kk87 5y ago
  All high skill workers already left Germany. No good developer will ever work for 32000 Euro after tax per year if you can go to Switzerland or USA and make tons more money and have higher quality of life (weather in Cali is a lot better than Germany and everything else is also better)
bookofjoe 5y ago
https://archive.ph/tmnyH https://archive.ph/tmnyH
Guest42 5y ago
I wonder the pricing.
- postingawayonhn 5y ago
  Tesla doesn't seem to have any problem with demand so I would speculate they're paying the advertised price.
  - SEJeff 5y ago
    It was said elsewhere that Hertz payed full list price for these, but is getting some help from Tesla in setting up their charging infra.
  - zbrozek 5y ago
    The other price to wonder about is that of the rental vs ICE vehicles. While I daily-drive an EV, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want one for a rental just yet. Charging infrastructure isn't quite to the point that you can teleport to some random place and not need to think at all about anything. Tesla is closer to that than anybody else. I also tend to just drive more when I'm traveling, and so the range limitations will be much more meaningful under those circumstances than normal. My Bolt gets me about 240-280 miles of real driving per charge and it's totally fine for everything I normally do. Of course I applaud Hertz for supporting consumer choice in this regard. Different folks will have different needs on different trips, myself included.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
dhosek 5y ago
How will they overcharge for gas with these?
- atonse 5y ago
  Even higher margins with electricity. Instead of charging you $5 a gallon, they can even charge $.50 per kWh (or translate it to miles) and that's something like a 3x markup. Even more if they use a renewable energy source. In my rough calculations, it costs something like $5-$7 to charge from empty to full on my Model-3 mid-range.
  - abc_lisper 5y ago
    Cost depends on local electricity prices. In Bay Area, it would cost $21-25
    - atonse 5y ago
      Correct. Here in the DC Metro area, we pay about $.15 per kWh.
    - Symbiote 5y ago
      "San Francisco area households paid an average of 26.3 cents per kilowatt hour (kWh) of electricity in September 2021." [1]. The standard Model 3 has a 50kWh battery, so the cost is roughly $13. If you charge between 23:00-07:00 the cost is reduced to $7 [2], though presumably that incurs the cost of installing an extra meter. It would be $9.50 sticking with a single meter for house + car. (For what it's worth, in Denmark the lowest I'm charged is currently double the night rate for PG&E, although the peak day rate is similar. It varies depending on demand and how windy it is forecast to be [3]. But petrol is $2.10/L, so the other commenter's 100L car would be $210 to fill — though at 12.5L/100km, it's pretty inefficient. New vehicles in the US use 9L/100km, in the EU new vehicles average under 5L/100km.) [1] https://www.bls.gov/regions/west/news-release/averageenergyprices_sanfrancisco.htm https://www.bls.gov/regions/west/news-release/averageenergyp... [2] https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/rate-plans/rate-plan-options/electric-vehicle-base-plan/electric-vehicle-base-plan.page https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/rate-plans/rate-plan-o... [3] https://i.imgur.com/Aml0CUw.png https://i.imgur.com/Aml0CUw.png
quartz 5y ago
Makes sense. I'd wager a good chunk of rentals (especially business use) use under a single charge worth of mileage and the reduced maintenance fees are probably a big deal for Hertz.
AlwaysRock 5y ago
Nice. This is good to see. It makes sense for rental companies and its great way for people to use a Tesla if they don't know someone with one.
castratikron 5y ago
With FSD?
- pokerhobo 5y ago
  No FSD, they are paying $42k per Model 3 which is “nicely appointed” not base models. FSD would add $10k per vehicle. They can always buy FSD later (although price is expected to keep going up). But presumably they are locked to the $42k price now over the next 14 months even if Tesla keeps increasing the price.
dna_polymerase 5y ago
Everyone with a bit of AI/ML knowledge already knew this but from this story it should be clear that Tesla's plan to convert their fleet into self-driving Taxis is basically dead.
- yardie 5y ago
  You can't buy out a Tesla lease because they are using those lease returns to stock their self-driving fleet. And until this changes then Tesla's plan is still in play.
- dependsontheq 5y ago
  Well it never was a "plan" was it? It always was more like a "story".
- Fckd 5y ago
  Its a story to pump stock and it worked for them but i cant say the same for pension funds guys
aardvark179 5y ago
Hope they disable some of the Tesla Easter eggs. Having the road diagram turn into a rainbow and Don’t Fear The Reaper blast out of the speakers because you hit an on screen button four times is pretty unnerving if you’re familiar with the car and really wouldn’t be what you want having just got off a long flight and driving in a city you don’t know in a car you don’t know.
- senectus1 5y ago
  christ, I want a cool electric car more and more. but reading stuff like this all the time is just re-enforcing my decision to leave Tesla off that list of potentials. A car is a tool I use to get my family around from point A to B SAFELY. Its also a fairly significant chunk of debt, and I want it to last a long time and behave EXACTLY the way I expect it to. Every day. Tesla really doesn't fit that bill atm
  - mcot2 5y ago
    Thus far there isn’t really a no-nonsense EV with limited tech and phsyical buttons for everything. Once you go the big center screen route you are kind of locking yourself into an infotainment computer that will be obsolete long before the cars powertrain is and an interface that will change over time like a modern smartphone. Once you know those truths, Tesla isn’t a bad choice as their computers are at least partially upgradeable and the interface changes have been decent from my perspective (although this is hugely subjective).
    - skykooler 5y ago
      Bollinger B1 maybe, though it's still in preorder.
  - hndamien 5y ago
    Tesla is the safest car on the road. In fact, the three safest cars on the road.
    - 5y ago
cblconfederate 5y ago
> Car-rental firm, recently emerged from bankruptcy under new ownership, orders vehicles by the end of 2022 That does sound crazy that they re doing it while they ll be still in pandemic, which bankrupted them in the first place. I guess in the US people can always find a charger. I wonder how many people will rent those cars for the novelty factor, and novelty only works once. And it will be interesting to see what people think after they have rented one
- quartz 5y ago
  I wonder if the goal is to consume the market so it's more difficult for other rental car companies to get Teslas? Personal anecdote but I already am generally willing to pay a slight premium for Hertz over other rental companies and would be willing to pay slightly more still if it meant renting a Tesla.
  - aerosmile 5y ago
    The beauty of being the first in the market. All the manufacturers with the shiny new EVs will have a higher marketing cost because Tesla is able to get the free PR and the best co-promotional deals like this one.
- aerosmile 5y ago
  Many people are wondering where Hertz found the money to make this purchase. > it will be interesting to see what people think after they have rented one They will absolutely love it, just like I did when I rented one on Turo and then bought a new one the very next day. Also, the Hertz crowd is exactly the right target customer for Tesla. All of which shows how brilliant this deal is for Tesla, and how incentivized they must have been to make it happen. Which likely answers the question above.
  - mwint 5y ago
    Re Tesla wanting to make this happen - Musk said these were all sold at no discount; Hertz paid full price.
- 5y ago
moralestapia 5y ago
Colour me skeptical. Hertz just declared itself bankrupt a year ago, now they have 4bn cash to spare? Both things cannot be true in such a small timespan. Either the 'bankruptcy' was a fraud, or the Tesla deal has some small letters like "of which we will acquire 1,000 per year for the next 100 years". Sure, the official story is "we were bankrupt but we found new investors at the most convenient time", but that could've easily planned beforehand. Also, they raise 1.65bn [1], but suddenly spend 4bn? The math doesn't add up. 1: https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/hertz-funding-stock-soaring https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/hertz-funding-stock-soar...
- lrem 5y ago
  Literally the first line of TFA: Car-rental firm, recently emerged from bankruptcy under new ownership, orders vehicles by the end of 2022
  - moralestapia 5y ago
    Literally the last line of MFC: "Sure, the official story is [...], but that could've easily planned beforehand."
- nitrogen 5y ago
  Were they out of value, or just out of cash?
- gruez 5y ago
  >Hertz just declared itself bankrupt a year ago, now they have 4bn cash to spare? where did you get 4B from? presumably $40k per car multiplied by 100k cars? The cars are probably financed, so they don't really need the entire $40k upfront. Using the tesla leasing calculator https://www.tesla.com/support/tesla-leasing https://www.tesla.com/support/tesla-leasing, a $40k model 3 only costs $19,299 for the first 36 months. >Also, they raise 1.65bn [1], the source you linked says the 1.65B is from coronavirus relief. It doesn't preclude them from raising more through other channels, eg debt/equity.
  - 5y ago
rpmisms 5y ago
They'll probably ask Tesla to put in a brief training video for people who haven't driven one before. But a Model 3 is absolutely a perfect rental car. Compact, zippy, comfortable, and makes you look good if you pull up to a meeting out of town in one.
wefarrell 5y ago
Only months after they exited bankruptcy.
nunez 5y ago
This is the best thing that could happen to EVs. If Hertz is throwing down, it's likely that National and Avis will follow suit. (National is partially owned by Ford, which might complicate things.) This was also my primary use case for Turo, so I'm excited to rent my favorite car from a conventional rental car company
- pokerhobo 5y ago
  It’s interesting that Hertz’s CEO is the former Ford CEO
  - jimpix45 5y ago
    Man has no loyalty it seems
    - bdamm 5y ago
      Man respects the competition of his previous employer for what it is.
PaulHoule 5y ago
My first take is negative. American car makers dug themselves a hole because there were a few populations that would buy American cars no matter how bad they got: refugees from WWII (e.g. old Italians, Poles, Jews and Veterans who would never buy a German or Japanese car), police departments, and rental cars. In a case like that the Ralph Naders and the Consumer Reports can be pointing out how bad your product is but they can point to people who still buy it, cover their ears and sing "la la la". In principle renting a car could be an experience like "I drove a Buick and I liked it" (happened once to me) but more often the vehicle has been trashed, things like the controls for the seat position are busted, etc. Car rentals move some metal in the short term but they damage the brand in the long term.
- HWR_14 5y ago
  Add to that thee fact that Teslas seem to have fit and finish issues that show up in under 10,000 miles, I expect a lot of people will have a negative first impression. Or maybe they won't because they expect rentals to be in bad shape?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
tyleo 5y ago
I just rented a Tesla on Turo last week. Would gladly have rented from Hertz though. I’ll be looking into this on my next vacation.
thehappypm 5y ago
Electric cars are actually a very good fit for many rentals. Thinking through my last 5 rentals. A wedding that was 1 hour from an airport, ~100 miles RT. A ski trip where I wanted to drive from Denver to my AirBnB near Winter Park Colorado, ~200 miles RT. A hiking trip where I needed a second car for a point-to-point car shuttle (New Hampshire!), ~120 miles RT. A bachelor party where I needed to drive from the airport to a trailhead then to an AirBnB then back to airport, ~150 miles RT. A national park trip to the Grand Canyon, ~500 miles RT. Each of those scenarios would have been 1 full charge of a Tesla round-trip, with the exception of the Grand Canyon. Maybe not the ski trip since it's mountainous and cold weather kills the battery so 200 miles might be a stretch, but I could have trickle-charged at my AirBnB. So basically I can see how many quick rental car needs are met by EVs, plus no dealing with filling with gas!
- nroets 5y ago
  On long trips, there may be one or more Hertz locations near your route. If all of them stock electric cars, Hertz could offer a premium offering where you change cars along the way...
  - cranekam 5y ago
    This idea is 150 years old! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pony_Express https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pony_Express
  - legolas2412 5y ago
    I certainly do not look forward to constant unloading/loading, adjusting seats and mirrors, and pairing bluetooth again every 3 hours.
    - beamatronic 5y ago
      Syncing your driving prefs to your phone or to the cloud would be very interesting. Show the car a QR code as you walk up to it?
jnsie 5y ago
I've wanted to try a Tesla for a while now with a view to purchase. There's nowhere near me to rent one (Turo isn't available in my state) and I'd gladly rent one from Hertz. This is a move that could do wonders for EV sales. Exposing people, without commitment, to EVs may just quench some lingering doubts re: charging, etc.
- Jxl180 5y ago
  Is there no Tesla showroom/dealership near you? How else would you take delivery?
  - caf 5y ago
    I don't know about the US, but in Australia at least Tesla will deliver it to your house if you live too far from a showroom.
  - jnsie 5y ago
    Mea culpa. I was definitely unclear. I'd like something more than the usual hour long test drive from the showroom. The questions I have regarding Tesla and EV require testing on longer trips, using the charging network, etc. Being able to rent a car for a few days for a longer trip will tell me all I need to know.
mattbrewsbytes 5y ago
Those that are familiar with Tesla's, would there be extra software features a car rental company would want?
- joshribakoff 5y ago
  Limiting speed, monitoring location, monitoring of “safety score” (attempts to measure things like “aggressive turning”), low cost of maintenance (no oil changes, etc), drivers are purportedly safer with autopilot than without
  - roflchoppa 5y ago
    You ever try to grenade the gearbox in a minivan by doing mean stuff to it? In a rental you can!
- spookthesunset 5y ago
  Resetting the system and clearing out any personalization. For example most rentals will have a huge list of contacts saved from people who paired with Bluetooth and unthinkingly let the car have all the contacts (which I was guilty of doing until I got wise to it).
  - josefresco 5y ago
    I bought a used Kia a few years back, and the GPS/head unit had many addresses still as saved destinations. I could have easily figured out who owned the car, which shouldn't happen.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
      Or you could do this: https://vinpit.com/vin-check/owner https://vinpit.com/vin-check/owner
  - mattbrewsbytes 5y ago
    The opposite is a good idea too, upload your locations to Hertz and they could pre-load GPS on the Tesla with where you're going as saved locations, contacts, etc. and then wipe them when you return the car.
CoryMathews 5y ago
Gas prices are going back up, How many gas tanks of water did it take to make them switch to electric vehicles?
FireBeyond 5y ago
If only Hertz wasn't the worst of the car rental companies. My latest, and last horror story with them was that because they couldn't correlate my identity to that of the corporate credit card I was using, they were "unable to rent" to me. I asked about refunding my pre-paid rental then, and started finding an Uber to Enterprise. "Oh, sorry sir. Prepaid rentals are non-refundable." Right, so you take my payment, and then decline to rent to me, and then refuse to refund me? They did, eventually.
- spookthesunset 5y ago
  All rental car agencies suck. So do all delivery services, airlines, cell phone carriers, and cable companies. Pick any company operating in these spaces and you’ll get stories of how they are the literally the worst company on the planet. That being said I’ve never had a bad experience with national or enterprise. I dunno why other companies haven’t copied the Emerald Isle concept yet. It makes so much sense. The customer gets to feel like they had control over the car they picked, the time spent in line is non existent, etc. Its a win all around. Also life pro tip: unless your employer can do better, always use Costco Travel for rental cars (and hotels for that matter). They always include multiple drivers, and have very competitive pricing… sometimes lower than what I can get using my employer’s corporate rate. The Costco membership almost always pays for itself just by renting a car for the week.
  - KorematsuFredt 5y ago
    +1 for Costco travel. I have found that alone to cover your Costco membership fees.
toomuchtodo 5y ago
“How do we democratize access to electric vehicles? That’s a very important part of our strategy,” Mark Fields, who joined Hertz as interim chief executive officer earlier this month, said in an interview. “Tesla is the only manufacturer that can produce EVs at scale.”
- bonestamp2 5y ago
  BMW, General Motors, Audi, and Nissan would like a word.
  - kjksf 5y ago
    All those companies currently make less than 100k EVs per year. GM barely makes (made) 20k of Bolt per year. You might argue about what number constitutes scale or philosophically argue that "can" means some future, not current, ability. But if you're Hertz and want 100k cars within a year, Tesla is the only company that can deliver that.
    - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
      > All those companies currently make less than 100k EVs per year. That's because they mostly make disposable compact hatches and the demographics that buy disposable compact hatches are not the demographics that spend a premium on an EV. They buy an ICE Mitsubishi Mirage or something. Telsa makes money hand over fist because they're the only one making EVs targeted at white collar demographics who drop 30-50k on a car. Nissan could crank out 100k Leafs/year if they felt like it. But Hertz doesn't want 100k leafs/yr because they're not trying to fill a hole in their economy hatch portfolio. They want 100k sleek fancy sedans with some brand image to go with them. And Tesla is the only people making that right now.
  - 4khilles 5y ago
    BMW sold 36,089 BEVs in H1 2021. Tesla sold ~385,000.
malinens 5y ago
I only rent a car when going on holidays abroad for a week. There is no way I would choose Electric. Filling car once and forgeting about it is a must for me
- leobg 5y ago
  I take from your comment that you probably haven’t driven an electric car. The whole point is that you plug it in where are you are staying. Every morning, you wake up to a fully charged up car. You don’t drive to the charging station. Those are essentially for road trips.
  - HarHarVeryFunny 5y ago
    What if you're staying in a hotel, as pretty typical for rental usage for vacations or business ?
    - twinge 5y ago
      You charge at the hotel. https://www.tesla.com/destination-charging https://www.tesla.com/destination-charging
      - HarHarVeryFunny 5y ago
        I just checked the website of my go-to hotel in Florida, the Sheraton Sand Key (390 rooms), and they have precisely one charger. It is free, but that makes it even more unlikely it'd actually be available. No doubt the charger situation is rapidly improving, but it seems there's still a long way to go to match the convenience of gas. Long charge times can be mitigated by "destination charging", but if a major hotel chain like the Sheraton only has a single charger at a tourist hot-spot location like Sand Key (by Clearwater), then it seems we've still got a ways to go.
- malinens 5y ago
  All my travel is within Europe and I stay only in budget hotels. Everywhere I have been I have not seen convenient place to charge car. Actually I have seen electric cars even as cheaper option than traditional cars when renting. IMO it's a good option for a few days when you don't need to recharge. There are limited vacation days and I am not ready spend this time thinking about charging
pengaru 5y ago
I look forward to not having to give a flying fuck about fuel level upon returning my next rental car. Enabling rental companies to fill up their vehicles on-site without requiring becoming a gas station alone is a glaringly obvious rental EV win.
- mike00632 5y ago
  I see it more cynically. It's more likely to be that if you don't return it on a full charge then you will face a hefty recharge fee.
  - oxfeed65261 5y ago
    According to Car and Driver, a Hertz spokesperson said that ‘customers can return the EVs not fully recharged "for now," a difference from the rules for returning gasoline-powered vehicles.’ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a38052601/hertz-buying-100000-tesla-rental-evs/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a38052601/hertz-buying-100...
    - pokerhobo 5y ago
      The cost of electricity is probably less than $5, plus the time they spend cleaning the car for the next person they can get to 80% charge
      - hughes 5y ago
        The more significant cost to Hertz would be the hours spent charging before the vehicle is back in service
        bdamm 5y ago
        Hertz has probably done the math on this.
        burmanm 5y ago
KorematsuFredt 5y ago
Where am I supposed to recharge a Tesla if I am living in a cheap motel ?
- jimmies 5y ago
  I figure it wouldn't be wise for a person who stays in a cheap motel to rent an expensive car regardless whether they could charge the car there.
esalman 5y ago
My in-laws fancied a Tesla for their vacation in Austin TX. They could not even get to San Antonio, which is hardly an hour away. They had to switch it out for a regular car. Tesla basically rides on their marketing propaganda. I'll stick to my 35mpg Toyota SUV thank you.
- mikestew 5y ago
  If a Tesla couldn't go 80 miles, there was something wrong with it (like, someone forgot to charge it), just like there would be something wrong with an ICE that couldn't make that same trip (like, someone forgot to put fuel in it). Hell, my ten year old Nissan Leaf could almost make that trip with ten years of battery degradation. So the Tesla either wasn't charged, or we're missing a key piece of the story.
  - quequeque 5y ago
    I don't know nearly enough about electric cars, but I was under the impression their battery performance severely drops off in extreme heat and cold. On an extremely hot day (say 112F/44C) what is the maximum distance which you can traverse?
    - mikestew 5y ago
      I don't know the answer, mainly because there would be a lot of variables starting with the battery pack option one purchased, but it will for sure be a considerably larger number than 80.
    - wbsss4412 5y ago
      The numbers I’ve seen quoted are in the neighborhood of 20-30 percent, but that’s only really for cold weather. Tesla batteries are actively cooled, so there shouldn’t be a significant performance decrease other than the power draw from the AC unit in the cabin. Even if there were a 50% loss in efficiency the car should still be able to travel over 150 miles, the notion that the weather would drop the range to less than 80 miles is absurd.
    - 5y ago
mrich 5y ago
Can they even make use of such a large number? Is this a Tesla options play on their part?
- pwned1 5y ago
  The new Texas and Berlin factories should be operational by the end of the year. I don't see it as a problem.
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago
  Hertz has historically had a fleet of around half a million cars [1], so ceteris paribus, yes. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/470829/us-car-rental-average-fleet-of-hertz-global-holdings/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/470829/us-car-rental-ave...
- bonestamp2 5y ago
  Yes. The rental companies typically buy more than this from the other automakers every year (and it never affects those stocks, lol).
joelbondurant 5y ago
It's time for police to shoot poors to enforce the climate.
greatgib 5y ago
Is it just me that see that something funky is going on there? Hertz is just out of bankruptcy, and immediately they order 100,000 Tesla to be delivered, and so paid I guess, in just 1 year! Let's imagine that they have the Tesla with a very good discount: 30000$ a piece. That would cost them: 100 000 x 30 000 = 3 000 000 000 $ I have hard time to believe that they have that cash in hand, or that they can borrow that much! In my opinion, this might be the long awaited event that will finally blow the bubble: Like for Evergrande, market will discover that Hertz can't afford that, then the stock of Tesla will tank, then panic and crazy stock crash will follow. What do you think about that?
- JeffL 5y ago
  Supposedly rental car companies keep their cars an average of 13 months and are constantly turning over their fleet. This order is over at least a year, so I imagined it's just that they will be buying Model 3's instead of whatever else. The advantage is their service costs and depreciation will be greatly reduced and they can keep the Tesla's 2-3x longer before needing to replace them. This should be a huge reduction in their costs. I would guess they buy their cars with debt anyway, so not like they need to plunk down $4b all at once.
  - pavon 5y ago
    In addition, the rental car companies sold more of their fleet than typical during the pandemic to help ride-out the large decrease in business. As travel continues to pick up they need to replenish their fleets anyway. Finally it isn't a great time to be buying cars in general, so the penalty of buying a Tesla vs another car is lower now than it typically would be.
- ethagknight 5y ago
  I think you are thinking about it wrong. A lender will happily lend $3B discounted slightly because the loan is secured by… $4B worth of Teslas thanks to that bulk purchase discount. Now, imagine if that lender is Tesla Financing Arm N.A. It’s not a bet concerning whether or not Hertz has $3B cash on hand, it’s a bet if the lender thinks Hertz branding is good enough to pay the note. I would bet so. Finally, there may well be a cross-collateralization with the Hertz family to make this deal pencil out.
wolverine876 5y ago
How wonder how Hertz intends to handle turnaround delays. If I turn in an ICE car at noon, they can clean and gas it and (as a guess) a new customer can drive away in it at 12:15. With an electric, filling it with energy could take quite a long time. I'm sure Hertz considered that, but I wonder how that works into their calculations.
- space_rock 5y ago
  Sounds easier and cheaper than filling with gas. And 40mins recharge is not a long wait
- kenneth 5y ago
  Takes around 30min to 80% charge a Tesla. Have you ever been to a rental car lot? It's almost always full of cars. And when not full, it's because of the same event everyone is renting for, which doesn't indicate fast turnarounds. There's plenty of extra inventory to charge all the Teslas between customers.
  - FireBeyond 5y ago
    Have you rented recently? Their lots really aren't "always full of cars". A lot of rental companies, especially franchises, have sold a lot of their cars due to reduced demand and insane used car prices.
    - kenneth 5y ago
      That's due to a miscalculation around the sudden death of demand due to a global pandemic (which bankrupted a bunch of car rental companies, including Hertz). Now that demand is back, they're rebuilding their inventory, as exemplified by this 100k car order. Things will stabilize, and lots will mostly go back to having plenty of inventory in not too long.
    - JoshCole 5y ago
      Not the person you asked the question to, but... I've rented recently (1 month ago). The parking garage was filled with an absurd number of unused cars. There were entire levels of the parking garage which were filled with cars which weren't being used because the rental car companies associated with that floor weren't even open. Meanwhile the rental car operator which was open wasn't even close to having rented out all their cars.
throwawaaaaay17 5y ago
Tesla surges by over $100B on a $4B (revenue) deal, likely at very low margins. Memes galore.
- jordanbeiber 5y ago
  They also reported that model 3 sales in Europe for the month was just shy of 25k which is the first time an EV topped monthly sales. Renault Clio on spot #2 with 18k sold. Interesting considering the price of the tesla….
  - theshrike79 5y ago
    I think people are doing the math on car TCO finally. If nothing goes wrong, the first two-three years are practically free for an EV. Home charging costs pennies and if you're really stingy you can use free public chargers. Then you might need a new set of tires maybe a quick maintenance at the dealership and you're good for a few years again.
    - londons_explore 5y ago
      With Electricity prices topping $0.30/kWh in many places, this is no longer true... Unless you also have solar panels at home and want to have the hassles of making sure your EV only charges on sunny days, you're going to be paying rates for electricity close to rates for dinosaur-fuel, especially if you're comparing to a modern 60 mpg gas car.
      - _ph_ 5y ago
        But even at those electricity prices, the cost per mile is still cheaper than with an ICE car. And fuel prices are going to raise further with higher carbon taxing.
      - petra 5y ago
        Which cars are 60 mpg?
snicker7 5y ago
My understanding is that rental car companies car about car depreciation (it is one of their main costs). The Tesla makes a good choice.
zoomablemind 5y ago
What would be a "reasonable" daily rental rate/class for the Teslas?
jumperabg 5y ago
Can they deliver 100k vehicles for 14 months?
- londons_explore 5y ago
  If you have a signed contract ahead of time, you can justify spinning up a new production line and ordering in new parts.
vzaliva 5y ago
I am wondering if such a big order comes with a special deal with Tesla for "rental app" or special "rental mode" in Tesla app. As a Tesla owner I would like to carry over all my personal settings and customizations to cars I rent and I would prefer to use familial Tesla app to unlock and control car.
- chrisbolt 5y ago
  Elon has tweeted that something like this is coming: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1452683841903202304 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1452683841903202304 Though, he has also tweeted many other things that have yet to become reality...
rabada 5y ago
https://www.agroasiatractors.com/ https://www.agroasiatractors.com/ we are offering package of tractors at affordable price. we have Massey Ferguson tractor like MF 240, MF 260, MF 350, MF 360, MF 375, MF 385, MF 385 4x4 for the international market.
bborud 5y ago
Perhaps Tesla should explore the opportunity of operating their own rental business. They can't possibly be any worse than the existing rental companies.
goddstream 5y ago
I was once told, by a car rental chap, that the rental companies don't make money renting out cars; instead, they make money by putting some miles on the cars in their fleet, and then reselling them at a profit. He told me that the deals the rental companies have with the manufacturers are along the lines of "you will buy 5000 cars at a large discount, but you can't sell them until they have 5000 miles on the clock". So they buy lots of cars at a HUGE discount and then later sell them for MORE than they bought them for. If this is true, then it makes sense for the rental companies to invest in EVs, because (a) there is customer demand for them, but more (b) because the market for second hand EVs is good.
- piva00 5y ago
  This is the business model of many rental car companies in Brazil.
- null_shift 5y ago
  Supposedly Hertz is buying these at market price… https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-hertz-full-price-order-elon-musk/amp/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-hertz-full-price-ord...
- Gunax 5y ago
  If they can sell them for more than they purchased, why even drive them for a bit? I think rental cars have a lower value/prestige compared to single-owner used cars (the idea being people are rougher and more careless with a rental they only use for a few days).
  - notquitehuman 5y ago
    So much of the “never buy a rental” stigma is ICE-specific. EVs don’t rely on hundreds of hard-to-reach soft parts that can disable the vehicle if you drive them too hard. But I’ll definitely be checking the battery and motors before buying a used EV.
xyzzy21 5y ago
That's a major hit on Ford - Hertz has long been a "Ford house" and at one time (1990s) Ford owned Hertz and they were Ford's largest customer (#2 was Hewlett-Packard).
degrews 5y ago
I'm not surprised! Everyone is talking about the technical suitability of EVs as rental cars. But I don't think that's the main motivation. On Turo (like Airbnb for cars), Teslas are unique in how disproportionately expensive they are relative to their purchase value. When I last checked, a Tesla Model 3 worth 50K would rent for up to $200/day. Compare that to a comparable $50K BMW which might rent for $80. I imagine the reason is that people just want to rent a Tesla to see what all the hype is about. Also, rental companies only keep their cars for about a year, so this situation doesn't have to last long for it to be profitable for Hertz.

Not the first EV order of this scale. https://insideevs.com/news/371826/amazon-electric-delivery-trucks-rivian/ https://insideevs.com/news/371826/amazon-electric-delivery-t...

uxp100 5y ago

I assume there is a little bit of a "meme stock" element to this, the reddit folks will love it, but I think I would pay a small premium for an electric car when renting (unless I needed long distance). More likely I pay a premium for that than for than the higher end ICE car options at car rental.

zibzab 5y ago
The problem is that when you are renting from Hertz you are probably new to the area and don't know where you are going and if there are any charging stations nearby.
- thehappypm 5y ago
  Teslas won't be the only option, if you have range anxiety then just take a Camry.
- uxp100 5y ago
  My main car rental situation was travelling to work headquarters where I had in the past lived, and renting cars for weekend trips because I did not own one. In both cases I would choose electric and was familiar with the area. But I may not be typical.
- DarmokJalad1701 5y ago
  The car will route you to a charging station if needed.
- buildsjets 5y ago
  That sounds like a 20’th century problem. Most of us have smartphones these days, which typically come pre-loaded with navigation software.
  - bdamm 5y ago
    And in this case, the car may soon drive you there anyhow.

Waterluvian 5y ago

I was very pessimistic about Tesla and confused by their stock price. But I now believe that they indeed are doing it and that we’re finally at the EV revolution. I’m not an early adopter type and the Teslas don’t excite me at all, but I’m really delighted that the market is evolving. I’m delighted that I was wrong.

stjohnswarts 5y ago
It's not going to be a revolution despite all the EV bull market folks say, it will be an orderly transition, people are slow to change and adapt and STEM people should accept that. Electric cars are not in any way an order of magnitude upgrade in tech, which is a necessary trait for any technology that claims to be disruptive. Sure from a green perspective it is but not from a pragmatic one. I of course welcome the change. :)
- unpolloloco 5y ago
  I'd claim it's pragmatic too - but only if you have ability to charge at home AND you have an ICE car as well (maybe). Halving the cost of commute is highly pragmatic! This applies to something like half the population right now (in the US). And we're on the path to alleviate issues for the other half of the population in the next few to several years. The other major issue (which is probably the bigger one) is that car manufacturers other than Tesla can't seem to actually get out enough cars to do anything other than supply California and maybe NY. Teslas are expensive and have a litany of quality issues that push "regulars" away from them. Once Hyundai has an electric that has inventory nationwide at a reasonable price, then we have a revolutionary orderly transition on our hands.
- chinathrow 5y ago
  > It's not going to be a revolution despite all the EV bull market folks say https://www.drive.com.au/news/norway-to-hit-100-per-cent-electric-vehicle-sales-by-next-year/ https://www.drive.com.au/news/norway-to-hit-100-per-cent-ele... I'd call that a revolution on a small country scale.
SavantIdiot 5y ago

oflannabhra 5y ago

This news should take into account the current rental car market situation: that is, absolutely bananas. Rental companies buy cars on leverage, and sell them used after a short lifespan. They sold off their inventory at the start of the pandemic and now can’t refill due to chip shortages, etc. The used market is also crazy inflated, currently, but these companies couldn’t take advantage of that appreciation.

aqzman 5y ago

I say this having never driven a Tesla, but are they really suitable rental cars? My understanding is that Tesla vehicles differ quite a bit from regular ICE vehicles, to the point that there's a bit of a learning curve to operating the car. I'd be interested to hear from a Tesla owner on this. Maybe it's a non-issue.

1123581321 5y ago
Try a test drive sometime. The Tesla stores only need to give a minute of explanation. A rental employee would do the same thing. They are easy to understand.
xiphias2 5y ago
As a non-Tesla owner, I'd love to rent a Tesla on my vacations just to try it before deciding on buying one. I'd say it's much better for renting than buying, as I know how I would use it beforehand.
- SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
  > As a non-Tesla owner, I'd love to rent a Tesla on my vacations just to try it before deciding on buying one. Me too. I actually looked into that a few months ago. In Boston Massachusetts, there is this place: https://www.teslarents.com/ https://www.teslarents.com/ But we were going to San Francisco not Boston, and there was nothing that I could google up. With the exception of Oslo, Norway; I've never seen so many Teslas as I did in the Bay area, but it seemed really hard to rent one for a few days. Maybe by the next time that I'm there a Tesla 3 will be standard at Hertz, but in 2021 you'll be lucky to get a Nissan. The competence and availability of even that, was low.
  - bkev 5y ago
    Try Turo. There tend to be quite a few Teslas there. https://turo.com/ https://turo.com/
    - 5y ago

llampx 5y ago

Where I live, it is exceedingly hard to get anything electric or even hybrid as a rental. Sometimes I wonder why that is. There are companies offering EVs for short-term rentals by the minute or hour, but not as many of the big companies which seem to treat EVs more as a curiosity and group them with Maseratis or Luxury SUVs in terms of price and availability. I hope this news is enough to shake up the leadership at the other car rental companies.

zht 5y ago
Probably cause it’s hard to get people to charge them before they get returned
- llampx 5y ago
  Why wouldn't they just apply the same usury rates they apply for gasoline tanks that are not given full to electric cars?
  - easton 5y ago
    They could, but I don't know if people would like it. When you're running late for a flight it takes three minutes to drive through the (somewhat overpriced) airport gas station and throw $20 in the tank, but with an electric car that could be twenty minutes (assuming the airport had a charger available). Which means you're stuck paying Hertz to fill it for you at their crazy markup. Of course, the answer with most electric car charging questions is "charge it at home", which is great when you own the car, but when you're on a trip who knows what the hotel's infrastructure will be like.
  - NikolaeVarius 5y ago
    I can do an after hours return with a gas car at 3am and spend the 3 minutes to fill up the tank before I leave it on the lot. You can't really do that with an electric car unless you want to pay a extremely high fillup cost
    - 5y ago

watt 5y ago

In Germany this marked niche is so under-served, there's a whole company (Nextmove) dedicated to rentals of electric cars. They position themselves as "try before you buy" experience, so you can do an extended test over multiple days to see if the car fits you.

leobg 5y ago
There is also Future Rent [1], which allows you to rent electric cars from individual owners. [1] https://www.future.rent/ https://www.future.rent/
- Gustomaximus 5y ago
  There must be a business in tying purchase into rental companies in general. Rent car X and get your money back if you buy one in the next 3 months type thing. Or "like the car you hire, pay X and keep it". There would have to be margin in that as rental companies usually sell cars to dealers quite early in their life and dealers are only going to pay bottom dollar.
kl7k78kk87 5y ago
All high skill workers already left Germany. No good developer will ever work for 32000 Euro after tax per year if you can go to Switzerland or USA and make tons more money and have higher quality of life (weather in Cali is a lot better than Germany and everything else is also better)

bookofjoe 5y ago

https://archive.ph/tmnyH https://archive.ph/tmnyH

Guest42 5y ago

I wonder the pricing.

postingawayonhn 5y ago
Tesla doesn't seem to have any problem with demand so I would speculate they're paying the advertised price.
- SEJeff 5y ago
  It was said elsewhere that Hertz payed full list price for these, but is getting some help from Tesla in setting up their charging infra.
- zbrozek 5y ago
  The other price to wonder about is that of the rental vs ICE vehicles. While I daily-drive an EV, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want one for a rental just yet. Charging infrastructure isn't quite to the point that you can teleport to some random place and not need to think at all about anything. Tesla is closer to that than anybody else. I also tend to just drive more when I'm traveling, and so the range limitations will be much more meaningful under those circumstances than normal. My Bolt gets me about 240-280 miles of real driving per charge and it's totally fine for everything I normally do. Of course I applaud Hertz for supporting consumer choice in this regard. Different folks will have different needs on different trips, myself included.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

dhosek 5y ago

How will they overcharge for gas with these?

atonse 5y ago
Even higher margins with electricity. Instead of charging you $5 a gallon, they can even charge $.50 per kWh (or translate it to miles) and that's something like a 3x markup. Even more if they use a renewable energy source. In my rough calculations, it costs something like $5-$7 to charge from empty to full on my Model-3 mid-range.
- abc_lisper 5y ago
  Cost depends on local electricity prices. In Bay Area, it would cost $21-25
  - atonse 5y ago
    Correct. Here in the DC Metro area, we pay about $.15 per kWh.
  - Symbiote 5y ago
    "San Francisco area households paid an average of 26.3 cents per kilowatt hour (kWh) of electricity in September 2021." [1]. The standard Model 3 has a 50kWh battery, so the cost is roughly $13. If you charge between 23:00-07:00 the cost is reduced to $7 [2], though presumably that incurs the cost of installing an extra meter. It would be $9.50 sticking with a single meter for house + car. (For what it's worth, in Denmark the lowest I'm charged is currently double the night rate for PG&E, although the peak day rate is similar. It varies depending on demand and how windy it is forecast to be [3]. But petrol is $2.10/L, so the other commenter's 100L car would be $210 to fill — though at 12.5L/100km, it's pretty inefficient. New vehicles in the US use 9L/100km, in the EU new vehicles average under 5L/100km.) [1] https://www.bls.gov/regions/west/news-release/averageenergyprices_sanfrancisco.htm https://www.bls.gov/regions/west/news-release/averageenergyp... [2] https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/rate-plans/rate-plan-options/electric-vehicle-base-plan/electric-vehicle-base-plan.page https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/rate-plans/rate-plan-o... [3] https://i.imgur.com/Aml0CUw.png https://i.imgur.com/Aml0CUw.png

quartz 5y ago

Makes sense. I'd wager a good chunk of rentals (especially business use) use under a single charge worth of mileage and the reduced maintenance fees are probably a big deal for Hertz.

AlwaysRock 5y ago

Nice. This is good to see. It makes sense for rental companies and its great way for people to use a Tesla if they don't know someone with one.

castratikron 5y ago

With FSD?

pokerhobo 5y ago
No FSD, they are paying $42k per Model 3 which is “nicely appointed” not base models. FSD would add $10k per vehicle. They can always buy FSD later (although price is expected to keep going up). But presumably they are locked to the $42k price now over the next 14 months even if Tesla keeps increasing the price.

dna_polymerase 5y ago

Everyone with a bit of AI/ML knowledge already knew this but from this story it should be clear that Tesla's plan to convert their fleet into self-driving Taxis is basically dead.

yardie 5y ago
You can't buy out a Tesla lease because they are using those lease returns to stock their self-driving fleet. And until this changes then Tesla's plan is still in play.
dependsontheq 5y ago
Well it never was a "plan" was it? It always was more like a "story".
Fckd 5y ago
Its a story to pump stock and it worked for them but i cant say the same for pension funds guys

aardvark179 5y ago

Hope they disable some of the Tesla Easter eggs. Having the road diagram turn into a rainbow and Don’t Fear The Reaper blast out of the speakers because you hit an on screen button four times is pretty unnerving if you’re familiar with the car and really wouldn’t be what you want having just got off a long flight and driving in a city you don’t know in a car you don’t know.

senectus1 5y ago
christ, I want a cool electric car more and more. but reading stuff like this all the time is just re-enforcing my decision to leave Tesla off that list of potentials. A car is a tool I use to get my family around from point A to B SAFELY. Its also a fairly significant chunk of debt, and I want it to last a long time and behave EXACTLY the way I expect it to. Every day. Tesla really doesn't fit that bill atm
- mcot2 5y ago
  Thus far there isn’t really a no-nonsense EV with limited tech and phsyical buttons for everything. Once you go the big center screen route you are kind of locking yourself into an infotainment computer that will be obsolete long before the cars powertrain is and an interface that will change over time like a modern smartphone. Once you know those truths, Tesla isn’t a bad choice as their computers are at least partially upgradeable and the interface changes have been decent from my perspective (although this is hugely subjective).
  - skykooler 5y ago
    Bollinger B1 maybe, though it's still in preorder.
- hndamien 5y ago
  Tesla is the safest car on the road. In fact, the three safest cars on the road.
  - 5y ago

cblconfederate 5y ago

> Car-rental firm, recently emerged from bankruptcy under new ownership, orders vehicles by the end of 2022 That does sound crazy that they re doing it while they ll be still in pandemic, which bankrupted them in the first place. I guess in the US people can always find a charger. I wonder how many people will rent those cars for the novelty factor, and novelty only works once. And it will be interesting to see what people think after they have rented one

quartz 5y ago
I wonder if the goal is to consume the market so it's more difficult for other rental car companies to get Teslas? Personal anecdote but I already am generally willing to pay a slight premium for Hertz over other rental companies and would be willing to pay slightly more still if it meant renting a Tesla.
- aerosmile 5y ago
  The beauty of being the first in the market. All the manufacturers with the shiny new EVs will have a higher marketing cost because Tesla is able to get the free PR and the best co-promotional deals like this one.
aerosmile 5y ago
Many people are wondering where Hertz found the money to make this purchase. > it will be interesting to see what people think after they have rented one They will absolutely love it, just like I did when I rented one on Turo and then bought a new one the very next day. Also, the Hertz crowd is exactly the right target customer for Tesla. All of which shows how brilliant this deal is for Tesla, and how incentivized they must have been to make it happen. Which likely answers the question above.
- mwint 5y ago
  Re Tesla wanting to make this happen - Musk said these were all sold at no discount; Hertz paid full price.
5y ago

moralestapia 5y ago

Colour me skeptical. Hertz just declared itself bankrupt a year ago, now they have 4bn cash to spare? Both things cannot be true in such a small timespan. Either the 'bankruptcy' was a fraud, or the Tesla deal has some small letters like "of which we will acquire 1,000 per year for the next 100 years". Sure, the official story is "we were bankrupt but we found new investors at the most convenient time", but that could've easily planned beforehand. Also, they raise 1.65bn [1], but suddenly spend 4bn? The math doesn't add up. 1: https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/hertz-funding-stock-soaring https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/hertz-funding-stock-soar...

lrem 5y ago
Literally the first line of TFA: Car-rental firm, recently emerged from bankruptcy under new ownership, orders vehicles by the end of 2022
- moralestapia 5y ago
  Literally the last line of MFC: "Sure, the official story is [...], but that could've easily planned beforehand."
nitrogen 5y ago
Were they out of value, or just out of cash?
gruez 5y ago
>Hertz just declared itself bankrupt a year ago, now they have 4bn cash to spare? where did you get 4B from? presumably $40k per car multiplied by 100k cars? The cars are probably financed, so they don't really need the entire $40k upfront. Using the tesla leasing calculator https://www.tesla.com/support/tesla-leasing https://www.tesla.com/support/tesla-leasing, a $40k model 3 only costs $19,299 for the first 36 months. >Also, they raise 1.65bn [1], the source you linked says the 1.65B is from coronavirus relief. It doesn't preclude them from raising more through other channels, eg debt/equity.
- 5y ago

rpmisms 5y ago

They'll probably ask Tesla to put in a brief training video for people who haven't driven one before. But a Model 3 is absolutely a perfect rental car. Compact, zippy, comfortable, and makes you look good if you pull up to a meeting out of town in one.

wefarrell 5y ago

Only months after they exited bankruptcy.

nunez 5y ago

This is the best thing that could happen to EVs. If Hertz is throwing down, it's likely that National and Avis will follow suit. (National is partially owned by Ford, which might complicate things.) This was also my primary use case for Turo, so I'm excited to rent my favorite car from a conventional rental car company

pokerhobo 5y ago
It’s interesting that Hertz’s CEO is the former Ford CEO
- jimpix45 5y ago
  Man has no loyalty it seems
  - bdamm 5y ago
    Man respects the competition of his previous employer for what it is.

PaulHoule 5y ago

My first take is negative. American car makers dug themselves a hole because there were a few populations that would buy American cars no matter how bad they got: refugees from WWII (e.g. old Italians, Poles, Jews and Veterans who would never buy a German or Japanese car), police departments, and rental cars. In a case like that the Ralph Naders and the Consumer Reports can be pointing out how bad your product is but they can point to people who still buy it, cover their ears and sing "la la la". In principle renting a car could be an experience like "I drove a Buick and I liked it" (happened once to me) but more often the vehicle has been trashed, things like the controls for the seat position are busted, etc. Car rentals move some metal in the short term but they damage the brand in the long term.

HWR_14 5y ago
Add to that thee fact that Teslas seem to have fit and finish issues that show up in under 10,000 miles, I expect a lot of people will have a negative first impression. Or maybe they won't because they expect rentals to be in bad shape?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

tyleo 5y ago

I just rented a Tesla on Turo last week. Would gladly have rented from Hertz though. I’ll be looking into this on my next vacation.

thehappypm 5y ago

Electric cars are actually a very good fit for many rentals. Thinking through my last 5 rentals. A wedding that was 1 hour from an airport, ~100 miles RT. A ski trip where I wanted to drive from Denver to my AirBnB near Winter Park Colorado, ~200 miles RT. A hiking trip where I needed a second car for a point-to-point car shuttle (New Hampshire!), ~120 miles RT. A bachelor party where I needed to drive from the airport to a trailhead then to an AirBnB then back to airport, ~150 miles RT. A national park trip to the Grand Canyon, ~500 miles RT. Each of those scenarios would have been 1 full charge of a Tesla round-trip, with the exception of the Grand Canyon. Maybe not the ski trip since it's mountainous and cold weather kills the battery so 200 miles might be a stretch, but I could have trickle-charged at my AirBnB. So basically I can see how many quick rental car needs are met by EVs, plus no dealing with filling with gas!

nroets 5y ago
On long trips, there may be one or more Hertz locations near your route. If all of them stock electric cars, Hertz could offer a premium offering where you change cars along the way...
- cranekam 5y ago
  This idea is 150 years old! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pony_Express https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pony_Express
- legolas2412 5y ago
  I certainly do not look forward to constant unloading/loading, adjusting seats and mirrors, and pairing bluetooth again every 3 hours.
  - beamatronic 5y ago
    Syncing your driving prefs to your phone or to the cloud would be very interesting. Show the car a QR code as you walk up to it?

jnsie 5y ago

I've wanted to try a Tesla for a while now with a view to purchase. There's nowhere near me to rent one (Turo isn't available in my state) and I'd gladly rent one from Hertz. This is a move that could do wonders for EV sales. Exposing people, without commitment, to EVs may just quench some lingering doubts re: charging, etc.

Jxl180 5y ago
Is there no Tesla showroom/dealership near you? How else would you take delivery?
- caf 5y ago
  I don't know about the US, but in Australia at least Tesla will deliver it to your house if you live too far from a showroom.
- jnsie 5y ago
  Mea culpa. I was definitely unclear. I'd like something more than the usual hour long test drive from the showroom. The questions I have regarding Tesla and EV require testing on longer trips, using the charging network, etc. Being able to rent a car for a few days for a longer trip will tell me all I need to know.

mattbrewsbytes 5y ago

Those that are familiar with Tesla's, would there be extra software features a car rental company would want?

joshribakoff 5y ago
Limiting speed, monitoring location, monitoring of “safety score” (attempts to measure things like “aggressive turning”), low cost of maintenance (no oil changes, etc), drivers are purportedly safer with autopilot than without
- roflchoppa 5y ago
  You ever try to grenade the gearbox in a minivan by doing mean stuff to it? In a rental you can!
spookthesunset 5y ago
Resetting the system and clearing out any personalization. For example most rentals will have a huge list of contacts saved from people who paired with Bluetooth and unthinkingly let the car have all the contacts (which I was guilty of doing until I got wise to it).
- josefresco 5y ago
  I bought a used Kia a few years back, and the GPS/head unit had many addresses still as saved destinations. I could have easily figured out who owned the car, which shouldn't happen.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
    Or you could do this: https://vinpit.com/vin-check/owner https://vinpit.com/vin-check/owner
- mattbrewsbytes 5y ago
  The opposite is a good idea too, upload your locations to Hertz and they could pre-load GPS on the Tesla with where you're going as saved locations, contacts, etc. and then wipe them when you return the car.

CoryMathews 5y ago

Gas prices are going back up, How many gas tanks of water did it take to make them switch to electric vehicles?

FireBeyond 5y ago

If only Hertz wasn't the worst of the car rental companies. My latest, and last horror story with them was that because they couldn't correlate my identity to that of the corporate credit card I was using, they were "unable to rent" to me. I asked about refunding my pre-paid rental then, and started finding an Uber to Enterprise. "Oh, sorry sir. Prepaid rentals are non-refundable." Right, so you take my payment, and then decline to rent to me, and then refuse to refund me? They did, eventually.

spookthesunset 5y ago
All rental car agencies suck. So do all delivery services, airlines, cell phone carriers, and cable companies. Pick any company operating in these spaces and you’ll get stories of how they are the literally the worst company on the planet. That being said I’ve never had a bad experience with national or enterprise. I dunno why other companies haven’t copied the Emerald Isle concept yet. It makes so much sense. The customer gets to feel like they had control over the car they picked, the time spent in line is non existent, etc. Its a win all around. Also life pro tip: unless your employer can do better, always use Costco Travel for rental cars (and hotels for that matter). They always include multiple drivers, and have very competitive pricing… sometimes lower than what I can get using my employer’s corporate rate. The Costco membership almost always pays for itself just by renting a car for the week.
- KorematsuFredt 5y ago
  +1 for Costco travel. I have found that alone to cover your Costco membership fees.

toomuchtodo 5y ago

“How do we democratize access to electric vehicles? That’s a very important part of our strategy,” Mark Fields, who joined Hertz as interim chief executive officer earlier this month, said in an interview. “Tesla is the only manufacturer that can produce EVs at scale.”

bonestamp2 5y ago
BMW, General Motors, Audi, and Nissan would like a word.
- kjksf 5y ago
  All those companies currently make less than 100k EVs per year. GM barely makes (made) 20k of Bolt per year. You might argue about what number constitutes scale or philosophically argue that "can" means some future, not current, ability. But if you're Hertz and want 100k cars within a year, Tesla is the only company that can deliver that.
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    > All those companies currently make less than 100k EVs per year. That's because they mostly make disposable compact hatches and the demographics that buy disposable compact hatches are not the demographics that spend a premium on an EV. They buy an ICE Mitsubishi Mirage or something. Telsa makes money hand over fist because they're the only one making EVs targeted at white collar demographics who drop 30-50k on a car. Nissan could crank out 100k Leafs/year if they felt like it. But Hertz doesn't want 100k leafs/yr because they're not trying to fill a hole in their economy hatch portfolio. They want 100k sleek fancy sedans with some brand image to go with them. And Tesla is the only people making that right now.
- 4khilles 5y ago
  BMW sold 36,089 BEVs in H1 2021. Tesla sold ~385,000.

malinens 5y ago

I only rent a car when going on holidays abroad for a week. There is no way I would choose Electric. Filling car once and forgeting about it is a must for me

leobg 5y ago
I take from your comment that you probably haven’t driven an electric car. The whole point is that you plug it in where are you are staying. Every morning, you wake up to a fully charged up car. You don’t drive to the charging station. Those are essentially for road trips.
- HarHarVeryFunny 5y ago
  What if you're staying in a hotel, as pretty typical for rental usage for vacations or business ?
  - twinge 5y ago
    You charge at the hotel. https://www.tesla.com/destination-charging https://www.tesla.com/destination-charging
    - HarHarVeryFunny 5y ago
      I just checked the website of my go-to hotel in Florida, the Sheraton Sand Key (390 rooms), and they have precisely one charger. It is free, but that makes it even more unlikely it'd actually be available. No doubt the charger situation is rapidly improving, but it seems there's still a long way to go to match the convenience of gas. Long charge times can be mitigated by "destination charging", but if a major hotel chain like the Sheraton only has a single charger at a tourist hot-spot location like Sand Key (by Clearwater), then it seems we've still got a ways to go.
malinens 5y ago
All my travel is within Europe and I stay only in budget hotels. Everywhere I have been I have not seen convenient place to charge car. Actually I have seen electric cars even as cheaper option than traditional cars when renting. IMO it's a good option for a few days when you don't need to recharge. There are limited vacation days and I am not ready spend this time thinking about charging

pengaru 5y ago

I look forward to not having to give a flying fuck about fuel level upon returning my next rental car. Enabling rental companies to fill up their vehicles on-site without requiring becoming a gas station alone is a glaringly obvious rental EV win.

mike00632 5y ago
I see it more cynically. It's more likely to be that if you don't return it on a full charge then you will face a hefty recharge fee.
- oxfeed65261 5y ago
  According to Car and Driver, a Hertz spokesperson said that ‘customers can return the EVs not fully recharged "for now," a difference from the rules for returning gasoline-powered vehicles.’ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a38052601/hertz-buying-100000-tesla-rental-evs/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a38052601/hertz-buying-100...
  - pokerhobo 5y ago
    The cost of electricity is probably less than $5, plus the time they spend cleaning the car for the next person they can get to 80% charge
    - hughes 5y ago
      The more significant cost to Hertz would be the hours spent charging before the vehicle is back in service
      - bdamm 5y ago
        Hertz has probably done the math on this.
        burmanm 5y ago

KorematsuFredt 5y ago

Where am I supposed to recharge a Tesla if I am living in a cheap motel ?

jimmies 5y ago
I figure it wouldn't be wise for a person who stays in a cheap motel to rent an expensive car regardless whether they could charge the car there.

esalman 5y ago

My in-laws fancied a Tesla for their vacation in Austin TX. They could not even get to San Antonio, which is hardly an hour away. They had to switch it out for a regular car. Tesla basically rides on their marketing propaganda. I'll stick to my 35mpg Toyota SUV thank you.

mikestew 5y ago
If a Tesla couldn't go 80 miles, there was something wrong with it (like, someone forgot to charge it), just like there would be something wrong with an ICE that couldn't make that same trip (like, someone forgot to put fuel in it). Hell, my ten year old Nissan Leaf could almost make that trip with ten years of battery degradation. So the Tesla either wasn't charged, or we're missing a key piece of the story.
- quequeque 5y ago
  I don't know nearly enough about electric cars, but I was under the impression their battery performance severely drops off in extreme heat and cold. On an extremely hot day (say 112F/44C) what is the maximum distance which you can traverse?
  - mikestew 5y ago
    I don't know the answer, mainly because there would be a lot of variables starting with the battery pack option one purchased, but it will for sure be a considerably larger number than 80.
  - wbsss4412 5y ago
    The numbers I’ve seen quoted are in the neighborhood of 20-30 percent, but that’s only really for cold weather. Tesla batteries are actively cooled, so there shouldn’t be a significant performance decrease other than the power draw from the AC unit in the cabin. Even if there were a 50% loss in efficiency the car should still be able to travel over 150 miles, the notion that the weather would drop the range to less than 80 miles is absurd.
  - 5y ago

mrich 5y ago

Can they even make use of such a large number? Is this a Tesla options play on their part?

pwned1 5y ago
The new Texas and Berlin factories should be operational by the end of the year. I don't see it as a problem.
JumpCrisscross 5y ago
Hertz has historically had a fleet of around half a million cars [1], so ceteris paribus, yes. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/470829/us-car-rental-average-fleet-of-hertz-global-holdings/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/470829/us-car-rental-ave...
bonestamp2 5y ago
Yes. The rental companies typically buy more than this from the other automakers every year (and it never affects those stocks, lol).

joelbondurant 5y ago

It's time for police to shoot poors to enforce the climate.

greatgib 5y ago

Is it just me that see that something funky is going on there? Hertz is just out of bankruptcy, and immediately they order 100,000 Tesla to be delivered, and so paid I guess, in just 1 year! Let's imagine that they have the Tesla with a very good discount: 30000$ a piece. That would cost them: 100 000 x 30 000 = 3 000 000 000 $ I have hard time to believe that they have that cash in hand, or that they can borrow that much! In my opinion, this might be the long awaited event that will finally blow the bubble: Like for Evergrande, market will discover that Hertz can't afford that, then the stock of Tesla will tank, then panic and crazy stock crash will follow. What do you think about that?

JeffL 5y ago
Supposedly rental car companies keep their cars an average of 13 months and are constantly turning over their fleet. This order is over at least a year, so I imagined it's just that they will be buying Model 3's instead of whatever else. The advantage is their service costs and depreciation will be greatly reduced and they can keep the Tesla's 2-3x longer before needing to replace them. This should be a huge reduction in their costs. I would guess they buy their cars with debt anyway, so not like they need to plunk down $4b all at once.
- pavon 5y ago
  In addition, the rental car companies sold more of their fleet than typical during the pandemic to help ride-out the large decrease in business. As travel continues to pick up they need to replenish their fleets anyway. Finally it isn't a great time to be buying cars in general, so the penalty of buying a Tesla vs another car is lower now than it typically would be.
ethagknight 5y ago
I think you are thinking about it wrong. A lender will happily lend $3B discounted slightly because the loan is secured by… $4B worth of Teslas thanks to that bulk purchase discount. Now, imagine if that lender is Tesla Financing Arm N.A. It’s not a bet concerning whether or not Hertz has $3B cash on hand, it’s a bet if the lender thinks Hertz branding is good enough to pay the note. I would bet so. Finally, there may well be a cross-collateralization with the Hertz family to make this deal pencil out.

wolverine876 5y ago

How wonder how Hertz intends to handle turnaround delays. If I turn in an ICE car at noon, they can clean and gas it and (as a guess) a new customer can drive away in it at 12:15. With an electric, filling it with energy could take quite a long time. I'm sure Hertz considered that, but I wonder how that works into their calculations.

space_rock 5y ago
Sounds easier and cheaper than filling with gas. And 40mins recharge is not a long wait
kenneth 5y ago
Takes around 30min to 80% charge a Tesla. Have you ever been to a rental car lot? It's almost always full of cars. And when not full, it's because of the same event everyone is renting for, which doesn't indicate fast turnarounds. There's plenty of extra inventory to charge all the Teslas between customers.
- FireBeyond 5y ago
  Have you rented recently? Their lots really aren't "always full of cars". A lot of rental companies, especially franchises, have sold a lot of their cars due to reduced demand and insane used car prices.
  - kenneth 5y ago
    That's due to a miscalculation around the sudden death of demand due to a global pandemic (which bankrupted a bunch of car rental companies, including Hertz). Now that demand is back, they're rebuilding their inventory, as exemplified by this 100k car order. Things will stabilize, and lots will mostly go back to having plenty of inventory in not too long.
  - JoshCole 5y ago
    Not the person you asked the question to, but... I've rented recently (1 month ago). The parking garage was filled with an absurd number of unused cars. There were entire levels of the parking garage which were filled with cars which weren't being used because the rental car companies associated with that floor weren't even open. Meanwhile the rental car operator which was open wasn't even close to having rented out all their cars.

throwawaaaaay17 5y ago

Tesla surges by over $100B on a $4B (revenue) deal, likely at very low margins. Memes galore.

jordanbeiber 5y ago
They also reported that model 3 sales in Europe for the month was just shy of 25k which is the first time an EV topped monthly sales. Renault Clio on spot #2 with 18k sold. Interesting considering the price of the tesla….
- theshrike79 5y ago
  I think people are doing the math on car TCO finally. If nothing goes wrong, the first two-three years are practically free for an EV. Home charging costs pennies and if you're really stingy you can use free public chargers. Then you might need a new set of tires maybe a quick maintenance at the dealership and you're good for a few years again.
  - londons_explore 5y ago
    With Electricity prices topping $0.30/kWh in many places, this is no longer true... Unless you also have solar panels at home and want to have the hassles of making sure your EV only charges on sunny days, you're going to be paying rates for electricity close to rates for dinosaur-fuel, especially if you're comparing to a modern 60 mpg gas car.
    - _ph_ 5y ago
      But even at those electricity prices, the cost per mile is still cheaper than with an ICE car. And fuel prices are going to raise further with higher carbon taxing.
    - petra 5y ago
      Which cars are 60 mpg?

snicker7 5y ago

My understanding is that rental car companies car about car depreciation (it is one of their main costs). The Tesla makes a good choice.

zoomablemind 5y ago

What would be a "reasonable" daily rental rate/class for the Teslas?

jumperabg 5y ago

Can they deliver 100k vehicles for 14 months?

londons_explore 5y ago
If you have a signed contract ahead of time, you can justify spinning up a new production line and ordering in new parts.

vzaliva 5y ago

I am wondering if such a big order comes with a special deal with Tesla for "rental app" or special "rental mode" in Tesla app. As a Tesla owner I would like to carry over all my personal settings and customizations to cars I rent and I would prefer to use familial Tesla app to unlock and control car.

chrisbolt 5y ago
Elon has tweeted that something like this is coming: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1452683841903202304 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1452683841903202304 Though, he has also tweeted many other things that have yet to become reality...

rabada 5y ago

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bborud 5y ago

Perhaps Tesla should explore the opportunity of operating their own rental business. They can't possibly be any worse than the existing rental companies.

goddstream 5y ago

I was once told, by a car rental chap, that the rental companies don't make money renting out cars; instead, they make money by putting some miles on the cars in their fleet, and then reselling them at a profit. He told me that the deals the rental companies have with the manufacturers are along the lines of "you will buy 5000 cars at a large discount, but you can't sell them until they have 5000 miles on the clock". So they buy lots of cars at a HUGE discount and then later sell them for MORE than they bought them for. If this is true, then it makes sense for the rental companies to invest in EVs, because (a) there is customer demand for them, but more (b) because the market for second hand EVs is good.

piva00 5y ago
This is the business model of many rental car companies in Brazil.
null_shift 5y ago
Supposedly Hertz is buying these at market price… https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-hertz-full-price-order-elon-musk/amp/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-hertz-full-price-ord...
Gunax 5y ago
If they can sell them for more than they purchased, why even drive them for a bit? I think rental cars have a lower value/prestige compared to single-owner used cars (the idea being people are rougher and more careless with a rental they only use for a few days).
- notquitehuman 5y ago
  So much of the “never buy a rental” stigma is ICE-specific. EVs don’t rely on hundreds of hard-to-reach soft parts that can disable the vehicle if you drive them too hard. But I’ll definitely be checking the battery and motors before buying a used EV.

xyzzy21 5y ago

That's a major hit on Ford - Hertz has long been a "Ford house" and at one time (1990s) Ford owned Hertz and they were Ford's largest customer (#2 was Hewlett-Packard).

degrews 5y ago

I'm not surprised! Everyone is talking about the technical suitability of EVs as rental cars. But I don't think that's the main motivation. On Turo (like Airbnb for cars), Teslas are unique in how disproportionately expensive they are relative to their purchase value. When I last checked, a Tesla Model 3 worth 50K would rent for up to $200/day. Compare that to a comparable $50K BMW which might rent for $80. I imagine the reason is that people just want to rent a Tesla to see what all the hype is about. Also, rental companies only keep their cars for about a year, so this situation doesn't have to last long for it to be profitable for Hertz.