45 ms·

Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

• MikeUt 5y ago
  Odd. You never hear about people fired/removed for anti-white statements. Nick Cannon was an interesting example, where his anti-white remarks went completely ignored: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/nick-cannon-apologizes-for-anti-semitic-remarks-after-firing-e2-80-98i-feel-ashamed-e2-80-99/ar-BB16OYSj https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/nick-cannon-apologizes-for... Edit: To those saying he apologized. Yes, he did - but only to a specific subset of those he insulted: ""First and foremost I extend my deepest and most sincere apologies to my Jewish sisters and brothers for the hurtful and divisive words that came out of my mouth during my interview with Richard Griffin,''"
  • isis777 5y ago
    Antiwhite statements are okay because whites are the oppressors and are in privledged positions of power. We need more Jews in leadership positions at influential organizations like media companies. Then we can promote more Jewish tolerance
  • joenathanone 5y ago
    > Nick Cannon apologized Wednesday night for comments he called "hurtful and divisive" after the television host and producer was dropped by ViacomCBS for remarks the company called anti-Semitic. First sentence from your link, seems like maybe you are just trying to be controversial.
    • tobesure 5y ago
      There are additional examples, but posting them and discussing the normalization of anti-white racism is "flamebait" and will get your account suspended on HN for "ideological battles". In any case the fact that he hasn't been completely cancelled speaks to the unique status that anti-white racism has over other forms.
      • loopz 5y ago
        It is better to point out how it is counterproductive and offer better arguments on the table. Because we won't bring "balance" by stomping on some other ethnic group, or fall into even more generalization about groups of people.
    • djrogers 5y ago
      I think GP’s point was that he was fired for anti-Semitic remarks, while he made remarks about white people that were ignored: “ those without dark skin "have a deficiency" and have acted as "savages" throughout history. He references "Jewish people, white people, Europeans“ ”
    • jimbob21 5y ago
      Its even in the actual hyperlink. Trolls will be trolls.
  • ostenning 5y ago
    The article you have linked said that he got fired. Its literally in the headline: > Nick Cannon apologizes for anti-Semitic remarks after firing
    • _-david-_ 5y ago
      The person you were responding to was trying to say he did not get fired for his anti white remarks.
• Tomte 5y ago
  > Instead of firing him, though, Google is moving Bobb into a STEM-focused role. That's surprising, but I think it's good. He's obviously not viable in the diversity role, but there's no reason to go ballistic over a 15 year old blog post.
  • cookieswumchorr 5y ago
    why would they use an engineer for such a role anyways. Should have gotten someone with a degree in gender studies
    • throwaway0a5e 5y ago
      >why would they use an engineer for such a role anyways. So that the engineers who have to comply with the policies and orders this guy sets or sets in motion feel better about it.
      • cookieswumchorr 5y ago
        ok, that makes sense; still wouldn't want to be that guy...
    • mcherm 5y ago
      A major goal of a diversity leader in a tech-focused company like Google is to influence the behavior of engineers. A fellow engineer is often able to do that far more effectively than someone without a strong technical background.
    • loopz 5y ago
      Probably overrated the engineer aptitude to learn the domain.
  • Pet_Ant 5y ago
    > but there's no reason to go ballistic over a 15 year old blog post. While I agree in principle I hope this is part of a new trend rather than an exemption for this case because his content is so much more offensive than anything Teen Vogue editor Alex McCammond ever said.
• smrtinsert 5y ago
  Being Jewish has nothing to do with Israeli state policy. Is that so difficult to understand? Some German living in the US in early 40s was not responsible for Nazis. What is wrong with people? Lately it's seems to me simple logic has no correlation with technical ability. You're not a general genius Bob, you're just good at computers.
  • bushbaba 5y ago
    He directly said Jews. Quote from his blog: “If I were a Jew I would be concerned about my insatiable appetite for war and killing in defense of myself”
    • beaner 5y ago
      Isn't that the point that the person you're responding to is trying to make? That the diversity head was wrong to make such a generalization?
    • toss1 5y ago
      If that's the quote, damn, that is sooo wrong. Aside from the overt antisemitism, just replace whoever he is talking about with "X". For any X, when they live constantly among existential threats, in particular other petro-states, who explicitly state that you should be "wiped off the map" and who use and fund impoverished neighbors to instigate and wage proxy wars against you, you should be extremely concerned if you and your nation do NOT prepare strongly by taking up arms in defense of themselves. Characterizing a necessary defense posture as some kind of blood lust is just sick and ignorant. The guy should be fired.
• ostenning 5y ago
  Here is a classic case of someone conflating the state of Israel and Jewish people and lumping it all together. Plenty of Jewish people that live both inside and outside of Israel are critical of the state. People can be critical of the state of Israel, but they should not be antisemitic. His comments are offensive for this reason.
  • tootie 5y ago
    Being Jewish is also multi-tiered because it's associated with both a religion and an ethnicity. I'd love to popularize being thought of Ashkenazi and not Jewish. I don't have a familial bond with Israel for probably 17 centuries and I don't really care if I ever did. My culture is more strongly associated with Eastern Europe and we were run out of town on a rail 100 years ago.
    • whimsicalism 5y ago
      The popular understanding of Jewish in America is Ashkenazi
      • chitowneats 5y ago
        The average American doesn't know an Ashkenazi from an alpaca.
        • whimsicalism 5y ago
          Yes, but the average American also thinks of an Ashkenazi Jew when they think of a Jew, and has no idea that Sephardim & mizrahim even exist, even if they don't know the words for any of it.
          • chitowneats 5y ago
            OP's point is to refer to these people as Ashkenazi. To think of them as that, instead of (or perhaps in addition to) as Jewish. My point is we are a long way away from that, despite how many Ashkenazi Jews live in the US.
• anm89 5y ago
  This is the only instance relating to offensive social media I've ever heard of where someone got reassigned and not fired
  • goatinaboat 5y ago
    This is the only instance relating to offensive social media I've ever heard of where someone got reassigned and not fired Yes it's very strange isn't it, I wonder what the reason could be
    • tasogare 5y ago
      Diversity. As a "divers" he cannot be fired, that would be bad PR.
  • eplanit 5y ago
    He is black, and there is a double-standard -- but don't dare call that racist. It's all absurd, but it's actually good to see examples of "you become the thing you hate". Hate is a horrible, corrosive emotion. We see it a _lot_ these days -- people who become emotionally entangled and lost in their activism against racism (the mob encourages this mindset, as in that state, critical thinking is turned off). They then become hateful and racist themselves. These incidents can hopefully (but doubtfully) cause some reflection about "why the hell do we even have 'diversity officers' in a software company? Maybe we're getting results opposite of what we sought. After all, we created the role with the silly title just to virtue-signal, in the first place."
    • KittenInABox 5y ago
      I think you're spreading FUD. People get reassigned instead of fired pretty regularly in response to PR. Please cite sources instead of making conjecture that this was due to race. At least leftists come with sources to back up their claims of racial discrimination, however flimsy the evidence is, it actually exists.
  • throw1103 5y ago
• dalbasal 5y ago
  Somewhat tangential, but who is the right kind of person for a diversity job? What does a job well done look like? Changes in hiring? Changes in company culture? I'm skeptical of roles with a "my job is to care about X" kind of definition. That includes, for example, "customer advocate" and similar, especially someplace as complicated as google. I don't think they can have much success beyond the surface level. EDIT: lets maintain a presumption of good faith. Assuming that you actually care about diversity...
  • Gunax 5y ago
    The purpose of the role is to be able to show that you have a diversity officer. Whether or not that actually helps diversity, or helps at all--is secondary.
    • commandlinefan 5y ago
      > Whether or not that actually helps diversity, or helps at all Or even hurts.
      • droopyEyelids 5y ago
        Diversity training may help change people's attitudes, but you're right on the nose about actually hurting. The real reason enterprises spend money on Diversity Training is because it provides Faragher-Ellerth protection from damage claims— even if racist conduct within the company has been accepted by the court. By having diversity training, corporations ensure that victims of racism do not receive financial restitution. https://content.next.westlaw.com/Document/I0f9fbe84ef0811e28578f7ccc38dcbee/View/FullText.html?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true https://content.next.westlaw.com/Document/I0f9fbe84ef0811e28...
    • globular-toast 5y ago
      So it's a bullshit job. I think the closest of Graeber's 5 categories [0] would be a "goon", ie. they are only there because other companies have one. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs
• Gunax 5y ago
  I support his speech, I just despise the hypocrisy. Nevermind that this position has an unwritten rule that it must be occupied by a minority.
  • at_a_remove 5y ago
    I am enjoying the ever-more-blatant examples of this kind of thing.
  • mc32 5y ago
    Not exactly. The ex-Apple DO was fired because she offered an opinion that was considered heretical, though I think it was an uncontroversial claim.
    • mooseburger 5y ago
      Yeah, that was interesting. Apparently even being a female POC doesn't allow you to blaspheme against the nameless faith. It has evolved.
• Proven 5y ago
  What is that shocking to anyone? What did they expect?
• spinny 5y ago
  > Odd. You never hear about people fired/removed for anti-white statements. Nick Cannon was an interesting example, where his anti-white remarks went completely ignored: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/nick-cannon-apologizes-for https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/nick-cannon-apologizes-for... WRONG THINK ALERT - get the army of snowflakes and flag this persons comment. ohh wait somebody did already.
• wonderwonder 5y ago
  Will be interesting to see how Google handles other old examples of people writing things perceived to be offensive. Apple clearly has taken the opposite approach, with the firing of Antonio Garcia Martinez. While the google employee's comments are clearly anti Semitic, one can hope he has changed since then and give him another chance. We are too quick to condemn people for life due to their past mistakes. With that said though, a diversity role is probably not going to be an ideal spot for him going forward and re-assigning him is good.
  • commandlinefan 5y ago
    > one can hope he has changed since then and give him another chance I... can't help but think that, had he been a member of a different demographic, he would have just plain been fired.
    • underseacables 5y ago
      Almost certainly. The last 13 years has created a double standard. White: Guilty until proven innocent, and even then, still guilty. Person of color: No, that’s wrong, people of color cannot be racist or prejudice, what they said was taken out of content by someone who is racist. That’s the new paradigm. Racism, prejudice, and bigotry, of any kind, by anyone, is just wrong.
      • KittenInABox 5y ago
        13 years should be plenty of time to have some studies covering this; do you have studies to prove this claim?
        • lainga 5y ago
          Plenty of time... the totalitarian principle of QM notwithstanding, not everything not forbidden is compulsory at a macro level; academia is not a deterministic machine for yielding studies given the appearance of a phenomenon. Otherwise I'd ask you to provide some studies quantifying "plenty of time".
• nazca 5y ago
  Slightly shocking that he didn't get fired. (yet?) They fired Damore for writing an email that was tone-deaf, insensitive, but largely supported by research. Bobb goes on a clearly antisemitic rant, and just gets reassigned. Is Google inconsistent, or has their policy on how to deal with these things changed over the past few years?
  • mc32 5y ago
    Given prior behavior around similar issues with other people I’m very surprised this person maintained their job. I’m pretty sure if he were another person talking the same way about other people he’d have gotten fired unceremoniously. And I doubt they have recalibrated how they deal with controversial opinions.
  • logicchains 5y ago
    >Is Google inconsistent, or has their policy on how to deal with these things changed over the past few years? Simple explanation is Google's Democrat-leaning leadership are more aligned with Bobb than Damore (in the US, the left are generally anti-Israel while the right support it, and the left are pro-affirmative-action while the right oppose it).
    • whimsicalism 5y ago
      Yes, people on the Left haven't realized women's innate biological tendency towards neuroticism, which renders affirmative action self-defeating.
      • throwaway3699 5y ago
        Why does this statement sound sexist? Is it true? I feel like I should disagree on principal, but honestly I've remotely no idea if this is true or false. I thought the data was that there are differences, but they're so small that the average man and average woman overlap in the majority of their characteristics.
        • 5y ago
• londons_explore 5y ago
  I really wish we could seperate people's private and professional lives. This guy in his private life wrote some nasty blog posts. That shouldn't impact his professional life. Nor vice versa. This blog post isn't sufficiently against the law to end up with him in prison. Yet this is a case of extrajudicial punishment. Unless there is any evidence of him bringing that thinking into his work, he shouldn't be punished.
  • londons_explore 5y ago
    I just have an alternative name for the world of work.
  • randompwd 5y ago
    7 billion people in the world. I don't think the global lead on diversity strategy role should be going to someone who wrote an elaborate essay in which he was clearly anti-Semitic. He graduated university in 1994 - it's not like he was a kid when he was writing these words. Who else has he helped discriminate against based on their ethnicity or views?
  • vidarh 5y ago
    This guy expressed views that would reasonably call into question whether or not he would do the position he was in. Merely the appearance of such views might make it impossible for him to be able to e.g. get the respect of communities he might have to work with as part of his role. For many other positions I would agree with you, but not a position like this.
  • pessimizer 5y ago
    You can't be openly racist in your private life, and have it not be a problem in your professional life managing and hiring people at a job. The idea that you think it shouldn't is weird. If I think that social netowrks are garbage that should be regulated out of existence and their operators jailed (in my private life, on my blog), should it affect my job at Facebook? What if I believe in my public private life that Russia should rise up and destroy the west for its decadence and weakness - should it affect my job in the CIA?
  • 5y ago
• agentofoblivion 5y ago
  Only the purest of the pure can lead a diversity effort. And it doesn’t count unless you were pure from the beginning. Growing to overcome past problems is not sufficient.
  • mavsman 5y ago
    Ya, I wonder at what point someone is accepted as having changed.
    • NateEag 5y ago
      It helps some if they've ever actually claimed to have changed.
  • poutine 5y ago
    A religion without redemption.
  • loveistheanswer 5y ago
    >Growing to overcome past problems is not sufficient. Their assumption is moreso that we cant grow to overcome past problems. So the only way to build themselves up is to tear others down. Thats why the popular "anti-racism" philosophy is so antithetical to and ignorant of the lives and philosophies of many of the greatest civil rights leaders such as Frederick Douglass, Booker T Washington, and MLK.
    • pessimizer 5y ago
      "Their" Who are they? The people who believe racism exists?
      • xg15 5y ago
        Do you believe racism can be overcome?
      • loveistheanswer 5y ago
        The people who judge and define others primarily by the color of their skin rather than the content of their character. Those who fight racism with racism and call it anti-racism or reverse-racism. Those who use hate, blame, and punishment as their tools of power, rather than love, forgiveness, and self/community empowerment. Those who focus on division rather than unity.
• falcolas 5y ago
  Another successful witch hunt. Never mind wondering whether his opinion has changed in the intervening 14 years. This vigilantism has to stop.
• rightorwrong128 5y ago
  I really can't tell if this is right or wrong. On one hand, these comments are hurtful and obviously stupid. On the other hand, this post is 13 years old. We all say or think stupid things sometimes, especially when we're naive about a topic. Isn't it possible his stance has changed? All this publicity now may have ruined this guy's career forever, all because the scribbled down some random stupid thoughts more than a decade ago? Downvote me, but I am truly sorry for him. Stuff like this makes me never want to post on the public web under my real name, who knows what will be marked as "offensive" a few decades from now.
  • deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  • joelbluminator 5y ago
    This is how it works now, yes it's extreme. But if you say something demeaning over women or blacks the response is much much worse. Here the guy just got transferred to another cushy job with big pay, not even fired. Jews are fair game unfortunately
  • geodel 5y ago
    > All this publicity now may have ruined this guy's career forever, You do seem to live in extremely polite and enlightened world where just a transfer is ruining career. Out in real world today one would have their ass out of job instead of mild reprimand for such blog post.
• prezjordan 5y ago
  Wow, wonder if he’ll get the same support[1] from the free speech crowd as AGM. [1]: https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1392756490138791937?s=20 https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1392756490138791937?s=20
• xvolter 5y ago
  For anyone who is interested, the actual blog post on his website was deleted. It's available on the Way Back Machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20210601160519/https://www.kamaubobb.com/hidden-blogs/2007/12/if-i-were-a-jew https://web.archive.org/web/20210601160519/https://www.kamau...
  • dougmwne 5y ago
    Thank you. Everyone on this thread should read the original words instead of the pull quotes. I am a staunch progressive and am afraid to make my own comment on his words. We are living through a strange political moment.
    • kache_ 5y ago
      My whole twitter account is 100% only recruiter bait. I cycle my reddit nicks every 2 months or so. I've cleaned out everything that I've posted as a teenager (even though I am a sensible person) Not taking any chances. Saw the writing on the wall with Damore. I should probably axe this nick but I've grown fond of its upvotes. So whatever :P Always assume you've been dox'd.
      • dougmwne 5y ago
        Once we get reliable deep learning recognition of writing styles we are well and truly fucked.
        • kazinator 5y ago
          At least momentarily, until we get deep-learning-driven permutation of writing style.
  • 13415 5y ago
    Thanks for linking that. It puts the issue in perspective. To be honest, I'm amazed that a blog post like that can make someone lose his job as a "head of diversity." Apparently, diversity at Google means that people should never voice critical opinions about the Israeli government, not even privately. For me, the lesson to learn from this is that to never apply for a job in the US or for a job for a large US company. That's easy for me to say, though, since I'm working as a philosopher in academia and these are not wanted or needed in corporations anyway.
• underseacables 5y ago
  The left’s obsession with cancel culture and conducting archeological digs on past comments, tweets, etc is coming back to bite them. I think removing this guy was the right thing to do, BUT I also think a major company like Google needs to set an example: Something someone tweeted more than ten years ago should no longer be relevant and should be ignored. However until that standard is set as example by a major company, we are going to see this dig up and burn for some time.
  • ravedave5 5y ago
    If this guy were a CTO or something sure. He was chief diversity officer though, there's gotta be a higher standard there.
    • jsiepkes 5y ago
      True, but then again this was 14 years ago. People can change. Steve jobs had just launched the first iPhone when he made that blog post. That feels like a life time ago.
      • lawnchair_larry 5y ago
        Depends how old you are. Feels like yesterday to me.
    • ryandrake 5y ago
      How far is it OK and relevant to look back for dirt in someone's posting history? 20 years? 30? Rants to their college newspaper? High school yearbook? Today's sensitivity yardstick is much less forgiving than it was in decades past. It's getting to the point where it is safest to just not participate at all, in case something you say today becomes taboo in 30 years.
    • steelframe 5y ago
      In 1998 I was running around Italy telling people that Joseph Smith translated magic transdimensional golden plates that a disembodied Native American spirit materialized for him. Six years later I became an atheist. I've been an atheist for 17 years now. As someone who has personally undergone an extreme change in disposition on something so fundamental with respect to how one views the cosmos, what you did or said 14 years ago is only relevant to me insofar as what your transformation story has been. More than anything though, I want to know what person you have become today. Bonus points if you used to think the opposite of what you think today, because you've managed to really grok that state of mind and figured out how to get out of it.
• rattray 5y ago
  HN title should mention that the blog post in question was from 2007.
• donatj 5y ago
  What I have learned in recent years is how shockingly accepting of antisemitism people apparently are on both sides of aisle. Growing up in a prominently Jewish neighborhood in Minnesota I never really encountered it until maybe ten years ago. The fact that he was just shifted rather than fired in this political environment speaks volumes.
  • Dah00n 5y ago
    How so? The norm in human society is to accept that people can grow and learn with time. The fact someone can be fired or shifted because of something like this said 14 years ago speaks volumes of the power of cancel culture and says nothing about antisemitism.
    • FridayoLeary 5y ago
      The fact that he felt qualified to lead a diversity team (whatever that might mean), with the knowledge that he authored such an article speaks volumes about his moral compass and lack of conscience.
      • geodel 5y ago
        I'd say he'd be proud of his comments and really surprised what is this sudden noise all about.
      • Dah00n 5y ago
        It is incomprehensible to me how anyone could judge someone on something they said 14 years ago when it would likely instantly be explained today that that wasn't what he meant and isn't his opinion today anyways. This is a perfect example of people wanting to ruin other people's lives without so much as listening for one minute to what the victim have to say - because yes, this is making him a victim, persecuted for something that might very well be a misunderstanding. It's one thing the we see persecution by anti-Semitic people against jews -we are used to that sadly- but that it equally often happens the other way around from people who surely knows better is mind-blowing.
  • 5y ago
• SpicyLemonZest 5y ago
  Note that “diversity head” does not mean “head of the company’s diversity efforts” here - that’s a different person, Melonie Parker. It’s not super clear to me what this guy’s role actually was.
• secondo 5y ago
  Who did he upset for this to blow up _now_, 14 years after the fact and almost 3 years in his role at Google?
  • globular-toast 5y ago
    I wonder if someone went digging for dirt or if they had been saving it for a rainy day.
  • oh_sigh 5y ago
    Because no one googled for his old blog posts?
• andrewla 5y ago
  The post is now deleted, but is available at https://web.archive.org/web/20210601160519/https://www.kamaubobb.com/hidden-blogs/2007/12/if-i-were-a-jew https://web.archive.org/web/20210601160519/https://www.kamau... Repeated here for clarity: > If I were a Jew today, my sensibilities would be tormented. I would find it increasingly difficult to reconcile the long cycles of oppression that Jewish people have endured and the insatiable appetite for vengeful violence that Israel, my homeland, has now acquired. This reconciliation would be particularly difficult now, in November, 79 years after Kristallnacht – the Night of Broken Glass. The anniversary of this dreadfully monumental day in my history would bring me pause. It would force me to reflect on the legacy of extraordinary human suffering. I might wonder how the vicious eruption of cruelty in the mid-twentieth century has influenced the shape of my identity as a Jewish person and our collective identity as Jewish people. > Suffering and oppression typically give rise to sympathy and compassion among the oppressed. I can look upon the sufferer and know that, “there but for the Grace of God, go I.” During this period I might well reflect on the redemptive qualities of suffering that my people have learned through a ghastly set of lessons. I would not have to reflect alone, I could read the lessons explicitly from Elie Wiesel, Anne Frank, or Chaim Potok. I would conclude that my Jewish faith and the history of my people render me closer to human compassion; closer to the instinct to offer healing to hurt, patience to anxiety and understanding to confusion. > I don’t know how I would reconcile that identity with the behavior of fundamentalist Jewish extremists or of Israel as a nation. The details would confuse me. I wouldn’t understand those who suggest that bombing Lebanon, slaughtering Lebanese people and largely destroying Beirut in retaliation for the capture of a few soldiers is justified. I wouldn’t understand the notion of collective punishment, cutting off gas, electricity and water from residents in Gaza because they are attacking Israel who is fighting against them. It would be unconscionable to me to watch Israeli tanks donning the Star of David rumbling through Ramallah destroying buildings and breaking the glass. > I would be confused in concept too. My faith would lead me to believe that Israel is the homeland of my people. My intellect would convince me that it cannot be that simple. The faith and reason of the Palestinians or of Muslims cannot simply be baseless. I would have to believe that the degree of animus, vengeance and violence that they now carry is not rooted in their identity, but rather in their experience; in the sordid nation shuffling and rebuilding that took place after World War II. It must be rooted in their hurt, in their sense of displacement, abandonment and hopelessness. > My reflections on Kristallnacht would lead me to feel that these are precisely the human sentiments that I as Jew would understand; that I ought to understand and feel compelled to help alleviate. It cannot be that the sum total of a history of suffering and slaughter places such a premium on my identity that I would be willing to damn others in defense of it. > If I were a Jew I would be concerned about my insatiable appetite for war and killing in defense of myself. Self defense is undoubtedly an instinct, but I would be afraid of my increasing insensitivity to the suffering others. My greatest torment would be that I’ve misinterpreted the identity offered by my history and transposed spiritual and human compassion with self righteous impunity. > kamau
• unanswered 5y ago
  Let's see here... If you suggest there might be biological differences between men and women, you get fired. If you advocate for the "elimination of the Jewish problem", you get, uh, 'reassigned'.
  • generj 5y ago
    That’s an...incredibly poor and uncharitable reading of his argument. It’s not a good essay but he definitively isn’t advocating for a genocide - and indeed is arguing against Israel committing a genocide in slow motion. At worst he is conflating Zionists with Jews, an unfortunate generalization which is anti Semitic but nowhere near the mental image most people have of anti Semitic behavior. Additionally he made these comments 13 years ago and not on company property. Assuming the offenses were equal performing one more than a decade ago vs. last week on a company system is always going to have a different response. Your comparison isn’t a fair one.
• howeyc 5y ago
  Wow, 14 years ago. I hope the current progressive correct-thinkers realize the takes they make today have to hold up over a decade from now, otherwise the next wave is going to cancel them.
  • frockington1 5y ago
    And that is why I stopped calling myself a progressive years ago. In my youth I thought progressive meant trying to continually better yourself and your community. Now the focus seems to be on cancelling any viewpoint that conflicts with yours. The new trend of digging further and further back in the past makes it even more counter to my previous beliefs of the word
    • vernie 5y ago
      So what do you call yourself now?
      • frockington1 5y ago
        Nothing, politically speaking Shrek is my role model. Get off my swamp, I don't care at all as long as people leave me alone
    • chewmieser 5y ago
      I just don't understand this viewpoint as it completely ignores the history of humanity. "Cancel culture" has been used for many centuries to silence dissenters. Take a look at Galieleo as an example. He was excommunicated or "canceled" by religious organizations that held the primary means of power. He was even forced to recant his positions by these groups. How is this any different than today?
      • TeMPOraL 5y ago
        Is the cancellation of Galileo by the Church a good example? A way a civilized society should function? If not, if we consider historical examples like these as failures of past societies, then things "not being any different than today" suggests our society is also failing.
• mikewarot 5y ago
  So, it took some digging, but here is the text https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:luIscBieLtIJ:https://www.kamaubobb.com/hidden-blogs/2007/12/if-i-were-a-jew+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:luIscB... As you can see, it's a quite well written critique of Israel, and it is definitely NOT anti-Semitic. I find it quite ironic that it took Google's cache to find the thing Google itself wants canceled
  • literallyWTF 5y ago
    Doesn’t matter. The JIDF will scour the world for anything negative of Israel
  • wonderwonder 5y ago
    It is Anti-Semitic in that he is lumping all jews in with Israel. I am a Jew, America is my homeland. I live here and am an American. I am not an Israeli. I give almost zero thought to Israel in my day to day. Jews are consistently labeled with an "other" tag, we are not Americans, we are Jews and Israel is our country. Also "If I were a Jew I would be concerned about my insatiable appetite for war and killing in defense of myself. Self defense is undoubtedly an instinct, but I would be afraid of my increasing insensitivity to the suffering others. My greatest torment would be that I’ve misinterpreted the identity offered by my history and transposed spiritual and human compassion with self righteous impunity." How is that anything except Anti-Semitic?
    • lacksconfidence 5y ago
      Replace jew with 'israeli' in every occurance. Who's fault is it that israel intentionally tried to muddy the water and make the word confusing? I don't see any anti-semitism here. I see here concern that israel does not care about the humanity of their neighbors.
      • wonderwonder 5y ago
        He said Jew, not Israeli. He is intentional in the use as the entire article is about Jews and Israel. Also the person in question is not an idiot, he is a mature adult smart enough to work in stem at Google. Your argument essentially absolves any anti semitic statements / actions by blaming the Jews for it. This is exactly the definition of anti-semitism, and now I am speaking about your words, not his.
• rightorwrong128 5y ago
  Is 14 years the new record or do we have higher bidders?
  • hn8788 5y ago
    The Boeing communications chief resigned due to a 33 year old article where he said females shouldn't be allowed in military combat roles. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/business/boeing-resignation-niel-golightly.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/business/boeing-resignati...
    • xdennis 5y ago
      That's so weird considering the USA only recently allowed women in combat.
  • bart_spoon 5y ago
    Not tech, but in 2018 Nascar/Indycar driver Conor Daly lost a sponsorship because it surfaced that his (at the time) newly immigrated Irish father had used a racial slur in a radio interview in the 80s, years before Conor had even been born [0]. Its going to be hard for anything to beat the absurdity of that situation. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/24/sports/autoracing/conor-daly-nascar-racial-slur.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/24/sports/autoracing/conor-d...
• say_it_as_it_is 5y ago
  He wasn't fired? Are you kidding me? He was reassigned to a comfy position in research?
• Dah00n 5y ago
  One of the reasons I use HN is because of the No Political or Ideological fights rule (because I know I can't stop commenting from time to time even though I'd rather live a life without this crap). I wish rules were here to be enforced, not as guidelines hardly anyone follow.
  • distribot 5y ago
    This isn’t political though, it’s social. Unless political to you means anything related to the way society is structured and people relate to each other.
    • Dah00n 5y ago
      Since it include both political and ideological fights in the guidelines it doesn't really matter. It definitely fits this thread. Added ideological to OP.
    • old_fart_dev 5y ago
      This is absolutely political, in that any conversation about Israel's foreign or domestic policy ends up an argument falling along political lines. There's several posts already excusing the blog post because it aligns politically with the poster's own views (in this case, that all Jews have collective guilt for Israel's policy.)
      • distribot 5y ago
        I guess I just disagree with the idea that things which are polarized across party lines are political. Want to note that I’m pro Israel, think the OP said an awful thing, and I am a progressive.
  • erect 5y ago
    HN has a “no-politics” rule? That’s absolute hilarious. This place is nothing but politics.
  • duckfang 5y ago
    EVERYTHING is political, when involving more than 1 person. The DMCA is political, and is the basis in which most orgs allow public comment. Copyright is political. Patents are political. Cryptocurrency is explicitly political WRT being against governments. Most startups are political, in the way many break laws that the incumbents have to follow. The people who "dont want to involve with politics" are primarily the ones whose needs are met, and don't care about others' needs. I would claim it's for selfish reasons.
• wly_cdgr 5y ago
  Jews != Israel, how many times does this need to be said
• duckfang 5y ago
  The Palestinians are also Semitic peoples. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_languages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_languages Being against the peoples of Palestine makes you an anti-Semite as well. Edit: the downvote brigade is strong today. But as the top post says, there is a difference between Jewish genetics, Jewish culture, Jewish religion, and Jewish government. Smearing them is just as disingenuous as calling people anti-Semites (not knowing who that represents). A human can be a member of none, one, or multiple of these. Complaining about abhorrent *actions* member does as one of these does not make you an "anti-semite" or "jew hater". The key difference is that one focuses on bad actions, and not attaching "bad" to a people.
  • mythrwy 5y ago
    Palestinians (aka Philistines) originally weren't Semitic fwiw. They likely came from Southern Europe (the bible specifically mentions the island of Crete as their place of origin) arriving roughly the same time as the Hebrews who came in from the east. This was part of the "Sea People" migrations which is documented in Egyptian literature that occurred at the bronze age collapse. They were more sort of a proto Greek and most likely spoke an Indo-European dialect initially. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistine_language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistine_language
• oogabooga123 5y ago
  Anyone see a pattern with the heavily downvoted posts in this thread? I know it’s against the rules to complain about voting — think of it as a thought provoking observation
  • erect2 5y ago
    HackerNews is a curious place.
• guidovranken 5y ago
  The head of racism was found to be racist. If anything, he deserves a bonus.
  • erect 5y ago
    Criticizing Israel is not racist.
• bmmayer1 5y ago
  If you supported the firing of Antonio Garcia Martinez this should make you happy. If you thought that Apple overstepped their bounds by punishing a new hire for old creative work, this should outrage you, too. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a lot of consistency in peoples' views on these two closely related incidents. Why?
  • ReptileMan 5y ago
    I am outraged, but on the other side for me the whole diversity industry is parasitic with undertones of blackmail. And I am generally speaking fan of poetic justice. Which puts the whole situation as the old joke said "what is mixed feeling - seeing your mother in law drive off the cliff in your new Ferrari" Another thing if we go more nuanced is that this "don't fire people for stupid shit" is something of a detente. I view it as pragmatism, not unbendable moral conviction. So if you have broken it, you are no longer protected by it. And let's be honest - chances of a person in this position not having a lot of outrage in his public social accounts is quite slim.
  • geodel 5y ago
    > If you supported the firing of Antonio Garcia Martinez this should make you happy. Hardly. In fact only being transferred instead of fired from a cushy job shows one just has to be on right side of social justice movement to be shielded from past transgressions.
• unixhero 5y ago
  Ah! The old war on our internet history.
• workallday21 5y ago
  Remember just yesterday the same thread from dailymail was remove from YCombinator. This site is censored to the gills. You can talk all you want about tech stuff, but don't cross the boundaries. That is, until it hits a major paper and then perhaps it can't be ignored.
• sterlind 5y ago
  He also wrote a blog post in which he confesses being homophobic: https://web.archive.org/web/20210603012214/https://www.kamaubobb.com/hidden-blogs/2007/03/wondering-about-relationships https://web.archive.org/web/20210603012214/https://www.kamau... I was confused about why Google said "LGBTQ+ community" in addition to Jewish community, and I think that's it.
  • javagram 5y ago
    Interesting to read that post, which is clearly pro-gay, and contrast with gay marriage referendums in the 2012 election which barely passed with around 47% of voters opposed (and of course Prop 8 had won in california just a few years earlier). If that post were criteria for firing around half or more of the American population could also be fired if they had made the mistake of recording their opinions online or in written form before 10 years ago.
  • czzr 5y ago
    How sad that a well written post that openly and rationally speaks of his internal struggles, and ends in a positive place, gets dismissed as “homophobic”.
• rriepe 5y ago
  > Instead of firing him, though, Google is moving Bobb into a STEM-focused role. Other industries: It's who you know Tech: It's who you hate
• cratermoon 5y ago
  > Google announced it's removing its global lead on diversity strategy and research from his post after it was discovered he'd made antisemitic comments in a past blog post. That post is not anti-semitic, it's anti-Zionism.
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  • xputer 5y ago
    "If I were a Jew I would be concerned about my insatiable appetite for war and killing in defense of myself." Excuse me? If this is not clearly antisemitic, I wonder what is.
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• asidiali 5y ago
  The Information War has truly taken its toll. We are no longer able to discern truth from falsehood, and as a result are scared into polarization by the nature of our surroundings. We no longer morally stand strong against the pull of power as we may have once did. The ensuing discussions are more often than not, nothing more than desperate attempts of talking past one another. Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Palestinian, Israeli, human. We all deserve peace and love. I want Palestinians to have a home. I want Israelis to have a home as well. It’s a complex issue. And because there is not necessarily an easy answer, we more easily fall victim to the tide of fear and frustration on a global scale. Existence is suffering. May we all find a way to survive.
• paganel 5y ago
  Israel, which defines itself as a Jewish state, is one of the most militaristic states in the world. So in fact we do know that the only present Jewish state has a “propensity for war”, not sure how this is seen as controversial. Of course, I think pretty much the same thing about the US government and about its citizens, the Americans, after all they’re the ones supporting said militaristic propensity.
  • jeffbee 5y ago
    Israel is a thing and Jews are another. There are more jews in America than Israel. If you want to criticize Israel, that would be easier to present than a criticism of Jews. If you think Judaism is a violent and warlike faith, it is better to criticize it than to criticize generally the descendants of people who might have practiced it, or the state that doesn't even hold it as the state religion.
  • bushbaba 5y ago
    It’s surrounded by countries who tried to kill all Israelis be them Jewish or Arab multiple times. It’s next door to hamas which stones to death gays. Yeah it has a strong military to ensure it the security of its citizens.
    • bradlys 5y ago
      Ah, yes, because Israel doesn't bomb schools, hospitals, or libraries... Damn hamas and their stones! Why can't they be more advanced with their killings like the Israelis and just level entire buildings full of children? What's the body count on Israeli children killed by hamas vs Israel killing Palestinian children? I'm pretty sure it's lopsided.
  • joelbluminator 5y ago
    > is one of the most militaristic states in the world Just for fun? Or does Israel face real security concerns?
    • Udik 5y ago
• lgleason 5y ago
  Live by the sword, die by the sword. That said, firing him, like they did with Damore would have been more consistent. Because everyone is under arbitration agreements that always benefit the company, vs the courts where you might have a shot at justice, they have no incentive to do that. As repugnant as his past anti-semitic rant was, people change and sometimes say and do stupid things. In a sane world this guy would not have been removed from his position and Damore would not have been fired. Instead we could have had a conversation to win hearts and minds, but today it is all about getting scalps, witch hunts and over-reaction. What we are currently doing sends people underground which radicalizes them more.
  • whimsicalism 5y ago
    The people change defense obviously doesn't work for Damore, who was fired over his actions while employed at Google Lots of weird comments in this thread.
    • cloverich 5y ago
      moreover he immediately posted a “fired for telling the truth “ response - perhaps he’s since changed but very different circumstance.
    • ehsankia 5y ago
      Yeah, I don't have a very strong opinion on Damore, but the two situations are clearly not the same. One was published 14 years ago and another was published in the same week where it blew up.
      • thu2111 5y ago
        They're clearly not the same because Damore said nothing anywhere near as offensive as this. He said, paraphrased, that there are fewer women in tech than men because they are less interested in it. He backed it up with a whole pile of research showing that this obviously true claim is true. And he pointed out that women are biologically different to men, so maybe that is part of the explanation, and even if it is, there's nothing wrong with not wanting to be a programmer (which is in a sense a tautology, it's a way of saying "women are different because they're women"). In particular he bent over backwards to carefully spell out that he was not claiming women are worse at programming than men, perhaps because he knew the dangerous liars he was picking a fight with would also lie about his words - which they did, immediately, across the entire media and with vigor. Damore also tried to keep these views inside the company. Now this guy made very explicitly offensive comments broadcast to the whole world on his blog, which claims that all Jewish people are the same, that by implication they are morally inferior to people whose hearts are not filled with war, and that they should feel guilt and shame about this. No comparison, indeed.
• globalnewz 5y ago
  as a nonbinary black person who self identifies as a holocaust survivor, i dont even know how to describe the pain and suffering reading that blog post from 2007 has caused me. this nazi should be killed, not reassigned to some other department where his jew hate will only continue to trigger holocaust flashbacks for others like me
• duxup 5y ago
  >will be reassigned to a STEM research role Not fired, just reassigned. I'm ok with that as a policy. Presumably he isn't ok with those old statements and can move on. At the same time the folks who need to post some general statements about a whole group of people, religion, or whatever ... As far as I can remember I've never felt a reason to talk about a whole category of people and "insatiable appetite for war and killing“ or "increasing insensitivity to the suffering [of] others". I don't get it.
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  • megamindbrian2 5y ago
    Have you people ever met a Jew? They literally idolized "never again" which is what this guy's is talking about. They literally live by the principal that this guy was removed from his position over. And questioning any Jewish philosophy is labeled anti-Semitic and condemned. Write a story about being "God's chosen people" doesn't make you righteous, it just makes you last to do it.
    • dang 5y ago
      You can't make inflammatory generalizations about ethnic groups on HN. Also, "Have you people ever met a Jew" followed by weird grievances and generalizations is enough over the line that I'm banning this account. We don't need this here—as evidenced by the flamewar that it started.
    • thereare5lights 5y ago
      The stereotyping in this comment is so blatantly racist that I’m surprised you even posted it.
    • joejoeshabadoo5 5y ago
      I have met plenty, and there is a great joke that comes to mind. What is worse than the holocaust? 6 million Jews.
• fuzzer37 5y ago
  He's right, though.
• gotostatement 5y ago
  it makes me sick to see everyone thinking that this is proof of cancel culture - LOOK THE DIVERSITY GUY WAS HOISTED BY HIS OWN DIVERSITY PETARD! NO. The people calling for this are not progressives - look them up - Simon Wiesenthal Center and Stop Antisemitism are conservative zionist organizations who equate anti-zionism with anti-semitism. As far as I can tell Kamau Bobb's post was anti-zionist, NOT anti-semitic at all. If you read the passages you will see. This is a cancellation by the original proponents of cancellation: conservatives supporting an entrenched power structure.
• masterphilo 5y ago
  I read the blog post and while the author's tone was a little bit harsh, I really doubt it can be called anti-semitic. I guess that's why they re-assigned him and he wasn't fired. You probably don't want a "head of diversity" to be controversial in that way.
  • busterarm 5y ago
    That was one of the most heinous, blatantly bigoted screeds I'd read in quite a long time. There isn't anything defensible about it.
    • Redoubts 5y ago
      Does mild criticism shake you to your core, or something?
      • busterarm 5y ago
        I'm not Jewish first of all, but to categorize the character of an entire group of people based on their birth/religion is the definition of bigotry.
      • smileybarry 5y ago
        "mild criticism" mixed in with generalizing Jewish people, regardless of country, in the last paragraph? > If I were a Jew I would be concerned about my insatiable appetite for war and killing in defense of myself. Self defense is undoubtedly an instinct, but I would be afraid of my increasing insensitivity to the suffering others. https://web.archive.org/web/20210601160519/https://www.kamaubobb.com/hidden-blogs/2007/12/if-i-were-a-jew https://web.archive.org/web/20210601160519/https://www.kamau...
      • thereare5lights 5y ago
        Blatant stereotyping of a people is not mild criticism.
    • whimsicalism 5y ago
      It's definitely anti-semitic, but I regularly will see worse stuff even on here.
• BTCOG 5y ago
  What I find most absurd in all of this is the utter stupidity of beliefs in entirely man made fairytales that have been causing nonstop wars for the past few thousand years. Maybe eventually, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Mormonism, and any other gullible belief systems in fake sky people, written by total nutcases 1k+ years ago and miraculously still followed today, will end. Believing that you're somehow superior to the other faction of people based on your beliefs in false Gods is so laughable that it borders on showing that all humanity is largely insane. I find it absolutely baffling that you can read any of these ancient texts and do much more than laugh your fucking ass off. Where is God? Why would he have you launching rockets at innocent civilians over what amounts to gang turf wars for phony belief systems. Nothing I said here was racist before anyone even starts. Religion is fake bullshit. Abolish religion, and you free the people to the reality of the universe. God is dead. You fight for no reason other than your murderous nature to want to kill. All sides. Any nation. Religion is man made, man written, has no basis in any reality, and is cult-personality total insanity.
  • dang 5y ago
    Religious flamewar will get you banned here. Please don't do this again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  • sangnoir 5y ago
    > Abolish religion, and you free the people to the reality of the universe. You'd be better off abolishing politics/politicians[1]: religion is but one way of "othering". Religion/sectarianism is only a hot-button issue because it serves hard-liner politicians well on both sides of any conflict/blood-feud 1. Good luck with that! Especially when politicians make the laws.
    • BTCOG 5y ago
      Abolish those as well, as the nationalism is also a crock of zealot-religious bs. In America, we have lost religion and instead many now feel the need to jump into identity politics. This mentality is disgusting and very small minded tribalism. It's inherent in human nature and we still share so much of that earlier hominid brain.
• koheripbal 5y ago
  His bigotry goes beyond anti-semitism. Kamau Bobb's blog posts were almost exclusively about White and Jewish people, as a whole, and their mistreatment of Black Americans both historically and today. He even targets progressive white people for their more unspoken racism. There is a very obvious tone of distaste for white and Jewish people in his posts. Search for the word "white" or "Jew" in his blog [1] posts to see for yourself. [1] http://kamaubobb.blogspot.com/ http://kamaubobb.blogspot.com/ Since Google supports "cancel culture", Kamau Bobb should be fired. I don't see how he, having himself being accused of being a racist [2], can work in any diversity or HR department. [2] http://kamaubobb.blogspot.com/2011/08/accused-of-being-racist.html http://kamaubobb.blogspot.com/2011/08/accused-of-being-racis... Some choice excerpts... > The cost of elite education for our children is extraordinary. I dropped my beautiful black star into a sea of white children and it hurt. > among the increasing number of white women holding leadership roles in the academy and in the public and private sector, they surely see younger versions of themselves in the next generation of white girls. It is a natural instinct to want the very best for them. > In a nation with a history such as ours, that imagery is connected to a much longer and darker legacy – a legacy where white men have abused black women and girls with impunity. > I do not need to be convinced that diversity and excellence are intimately interwoven. But what of my White counterparts? I really do not know how White people learn about Black or Hispanic people in ways that are honest > Perhaps it is time to focus the inquiry on our White counterparts. They may well feel marginalized by the shortage of academic inquiry into the complexity of their changing American citizenship alongside people of color. Their sense of self-efficacy may be undermined by their pending loss of majority status. > I was learning about the resilient spirit of black people in America in the context of white American barbarism. > It is still true that white people kill black people in America with impunity. It goes on and on...
  • world_peace42 5y ago
    Cancel culture is not about canceling people who say racist, misogynist, homophobic, etc things. It is about canceling (read: disenfranchising and taking revenge on) straight white males, who are at the bottom (top? intersection? whichever) of the intersectional hierarchy. Kamau Bobb is not a white male, therefore this does not apply. He is receiving the same treatment that any powerful person, regardless of skin color, would have received 10 years ago in the western world: tuck them away until the scandal blows over.
• ebin1 5y ago
  Something says to me that if he said "Europeans" instead, it would be ok. Of course, it is hard for me to back up this claim, other than with the anecdotal data that such comments are common on (liberal) Twitter and the like. In a world with so many protected classes, this former head of diversity made the really foolish mistake of not making a remark at the expense of one of the lesser protected classes, instead. Edit: found in a related comment that he did make such a comment, and that those such comments are precisely the ones not really mentioned or cared about in the media...
  • xdennis 5y ago
    > if he said "Europeans" instead, it would be ok Only if he said "Western Europeans + Russia". The rest of us didn't colonize anyone.
• davemel37 5y ago
  Here's the thing I don't get. If a groups behavior doesn't match your expectations based on your perspective of their history but you dont have the benefit of their lived experiences, wouldn't that be a tell-tale sign to try to recognize you MUST not have an understanding of the topic or enough information to formulate an opinion?
  • megous 5y ago
    Some people learn also by sharing their current thoughts and learning from how other people react. One way to gain perspective about your ideas is to communicate them. I have no idea about the reasons why that Googler published a blog, maybe he's just self-obsessed idiot who doesn't give 3 fucks about other people's perspective, like one would think reading the reactions here. But I don't see an issue in putting out random thoughts on a small personal blog with a comment section.
• JeremyNT 5y ago
  > As repugnant as his past anti-semitic rant was, people change and sometimes say and do stupid things. In a sane world this guy would not have been removed from his position and Damore would not have been fired. Instead we could have had a conversation to win hearts and minds, but today it is all about getting scalps, witch hunts and over-reaction. What we are currently doing sends people underground which radicalizes them more EDIT: since this is heavily downvoted, I will remove the original text, as I feel I badly miscommunicated. It is obvious to me now that the words I selected really did not represent my intent. I did not intend to challenge the parent's assertion, but I completely understand why it would have been read as such. Rest assured I understand why the quoted statement in the tabloids is perceived as antisemitic, and I didn't mean to imply otherwise! I was searching for some alternate explanation for why he wrote that specific phrase, because it was so beyond the pale and unlike the formulation he had used elsewhere in the post. Please chalk this up to lessons learned on my part. Here's a link to the full version of the blog post where the excerpts may be read in context. [0] [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20210602000424/https://www.kamaubobb.com/hidden-blogs/2007/12/if-i-were-a-jew https://web.archive.org/web/20210602000424/https://www.kamau...
  • world_peace42 5y ago
    Which charitable person would conclude that was a typo? I have a feeling people like you would say the same thing if he wrote “I hate Jews” in capital letters.
    • flir 5y ago
      It's obviously intended to be anti-semitic, but I don't understand what it means, either. They're all English words, but I can't parse them in that order.
  • FartyMcFarter 5y ago
    Looks like you just answered your own question.
  • stefan_ 5y ago
    He typod Israeli as Jew? Geez, quite the common mistake these days.
• lalaland1125 5y ago
  The main thing I find odd about that person's blog post (https://web.archive.org/web/20210601160519/https://www.kamaubobb.com/hidden-blogs/2007/12/if-i-were-a-jew https://web.archive.org/web/20210601160519/https://www.kamau...) is that it also doesn't really make any sense mechanically. The first five paragraphs are all comments on how it must be difficult for a progressive Jew to simultaneously support progressive values and Israel > If I were a Jew today, my sensibilities would be tormented. I would find it increasingly difficult to reconcile the long cycles of oppression that Jewish people have endured and the insatiable appetite for vengeful violence that Israel, my homeland, has now acquired. It's only in the last paragraph that the author goes to a different place and starts blaming Jews directly. > If I were a Jew I would be concerned about my insatiable appetite for war and killing in defense of myself. I wonder what the author was thinking when he was writing it as it doesn't make much sense to me.
  • CydeWeys 5y ago
    > I wonder what the author was thinking when he was writing it as it doesn't make much sense to me. Quite possibly not much. As someone who has hundreds of blog posts under his belt from a similar time period, a lot of it is just about churning out posts. Start with a thesis, write five or more paragraphs with little planning, do a quick scan for errors, then hit publish. I suspect we're looking at someone who's having their career heavily affected by a quick piece they dashed off in 30 minutes or less a decade and a half ago without even thinking about it too much at the time. My blog is no longer up and running, and maybe that's now a good thing.
    • dmix 5y ago
      Now would someone coming from his ideology have the same reasoned approached to being young and dumb? Or even well educated but ill-informed about some subjects. Or part of an organization/group/etc that has some negative public positions or legacy but is not the uniform agreement among the entire group or evolved entirely over the years? I personally see every election as choosing between lesser evils. Yet some groups see voting for any party as full agreement with everything the political party says and has done. There is so much context and grey area that modern diversity or social justice groups are (or act?) completely ignorant of. So does it make it rational to put them to their own garbage public trials, or give them a pass like mature rational individuals - also to a certain degree filled with it's own grey areas?
• decremental 5y ago
  In a sane world there would be no such position as "head of diversity."
  • honkycat 5y ago
    Why not? I can think of plenty of reasons why google would want a head of diversity. - They may find diverse teams to perform better - or maybe highly qualified people prefer to work on diverse teams so it helps with recruitment - or their leadership value creating a more equitable society by giving people in under-represented groups the opportunity to work at google. If any of the above are true why should they not have someone in charge of diversifying their workforce?
    • JPKab 5y ago
      Companies are diverse as a side effect of hiring for competence. They aren't competent as a side effect of hiring with diversity as a goal. The statistically illiterate HR minions who preach the correlation between diversity and performance don't get this, because they aren't even educated enough to understand correlation/causation fallacy.
      • tshaddox 5y ago
        When you’re making products for a diverse group of people, perhaps having a diverse team is required for competence.
        • rocknor 5y ago
          This is probably the biggest reason, they are building products used by virtually everyone on the planet, they cannot afford mistakes that could arise just because their employees only represent a small percentage of human diversity. If all diverse groups were equally well-off, or all they understood the existence and power of privilege, or there was no risk of the built products putting certain groups at a disadvantage, maybe we wouldn't need to do this. But we know that's not true.
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• xg15 5y ago
  So, question: Is any kind of disapproval of Israel's policies on palestinians now by definition antisemitic or is there a way to voice legitimate criticism? I agree, the "If I were a jew" sentence is an extremely tasteless and and insensitive way to put it, but from the rest of the quotes, his intent to criticize Israel's policies, not call into question the right to exist seems pretty clear. If someone criticized the Chinese government, you wouldn't automatically accuse them of anti-asian racism either, would you?
  • MaxLeiter 5y ago
    The reason so many criticisms are judged as anti-Semitic is because they are anti-Semitic. Often, they will have reasonable criticisms and then delegitimize their argument by stereotyping, supporting conspiracy theories, or conflating Judaism and Zionism. In this case, I think its most specifically: “If I were a Jew I would be concerned about my insatiable appetite for war and killing in defense of myself.” Being Jewish doesn’t mean being a Zionist, pro-Israel, or bloodthirsty
• nojokes 5y ago
  How are his comments antisemitic?
  • nojokes 5y ago
    Some other comments point out that his posts contain general racist sentiment so perhaps also these comments should be viewed in this context.
• cheese_van 5y ago
  I've lived in various ME countries, as well as Israel. I've tried to understand the core issue and frankly, failed. Both arguments about this historical conflict between Israel and the Palestinians seem as close to being morally equivalent as I could imagine. I have sympathies but I keep them to myself. I don't feel as though I have a right to take a particular side: I am not existentially threatened on a daily basis as both peoples feel they are. I have no history of being both threatened and abandoned by the world as both side feel. I have no experience of living as a people whose every political choice is one of zero-sum cultural survival. Who lives, who dies? Who prospers, who does not? I have no moral expertise on this subject to pick a team. So on this topic, when pressed, I say I have no right to comment. The irony of course, is that in many circles, one is attacked for being too bewildered to form an opinion. It's daft.
  • dalbasal 5y ago
    I think it's a mistake to understand this (or most) conflicts in terms of an argument about ideology, or history. Those play a role, but it isn't a philosophical debate. It's a war. Palestinians and Israelis are not on the Palestinian or Israeli side because they are convinced by the arguments of Edward Said or Ehad Haam. Its because they are Palestinian and Israeli. That's what war is, for the most part. They (we.. I am Israeli) are not going to read the others' literature and adopt their position. Ideologies, philosophies, political takes and such came about to make sense of the reality that exists, not the other way around. If you talked politics with locals, I assume you encountered a great variety of views. Honestly, I appreciate your honest bewilderment. It is quite disturbing to me when tourists and foreigners take extreme, unyielding, anti-comromise positions... including (especially) pro Israeli ones. I am quite certain that many Israelis, Palestinians & Jordanians feel the same way. I cannot speak for other arab countries, as I have never been.
  • gher-shyu3i 5y ago
    > I've tried to understand the core issue and frankly, failed It's quite straight forward. Up until WWI, Jews, Christians, and Muslims lived in Palestine, which it and other areas of Arabia and North Africa were under Ottoman rule. During WWI, Sykes–Picot divided up the Muslim lands into arbitrary borders to make them easier to occupy. Syria was occupied by the French, Libya by the Italians, etc. Palestine was under British rule. Post WWII, the Zionists convinced Britain to give them Palestine, so they moved in and formed an illegal government, which ironically applied similar tactics the Nazis applied to the Jews in WWII (ethnic cleansing, killing discriminately, etc.). The conflict continues to this day until the Palestinians get back their rightful land.n Edit: changed WWII to WWI.
• CivBase 5y ago
  I actually think this was handled well. I'm normally against taking punitive action against employees for old social media content. People make mistakes and they should be allowed to grow and improve without being held permanently accountable for their past selves. However, this isn't like James Gunn being fired for old jokes with bad taste. This person was Google's head of diversity and he posted serious, blatantly-antisemitic arguments. That post would compromise his credibility with subordinates - not just as a person, but as a leader with a focus on diversity. I like how Google reassigned him instead of firing him. It's an old post and he has hopefully changed for the better since then. He's no longer fit for his previous role, but there are probably many other roles he can still be effective in. I don't want to see someone crushed for past mistakes if they've learned from them. IMO, this sets a good precedent for how to handle issues like this in the future. Hopefully other companies are taking notes.
• isaacremuant 5y ago
  Regardless of the exact wording of this post anyone who has ever harshly criticized Israel's government policies has gotten reflexively called antisemite so it's rather amusing to see it at such a high profile place. It shows how it trumps any social justice points. You just don't, which is why you see so many very mild takes in this thread and people are extremely afraid of being reprieved for wrongthink (by American standards).
• nathanvanfleet 5y ago
  I don't get that Google said there was also some LGBT angle, but the article doesn't seem to mention those details.
  • zozbot234 5y ago
    Other comments ITT mention that he had some rather homophobic blog posts alongside the anti-Semitic ones.
• olivermarks 5y ago
  A major reason why today's politicians are so bland and uninspiring is because they have been groomed to never say anything controversial or contentious. Trawling through adults adolescence photos and shaming/blaming them for some youthful indiscretion is another aspect of this societal disaster. The anti war candidate Tulsi Gabbard in the recent US election is an example of someone relentlessly ridiculed and destroyed despite the absence of anything controversial in her background and is a dismal example of the way politics works today. Now we have the pretentious corporate diversity industry insisting no one in their orbit has any opinions that might offend. Hopeless.
  • sm4rk0 5y ago
    And if there was a referendum: "Political correctness should be dismantled", I guess most people would vote "Hell yeah!". So much for democracy.
    • olivermarks 5y ago
      I don't understand your point. Are you suggesting 'political correctness' - a relatively new term and phenomenon largely enabled by the internet - was something installed by society and is a good thing, and that a vote to 'dismantle' it would be a bad thing?
      • sm4rk0 5y ago
        No, quite the oposite.
        • olivermarks 5y ago
          Still not clear what your point is?
          • sm4rk0 5y ago
            My point is that PC is forced upon us and that it's hindering free speech and no one benefits from it.
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• rubyist5eva 5y ago
  "Diversity and Inclusion", and woke ideology writ-large has turned into a complete farce. I have zero respect for these people because their concern is a facade - it exists only to exert power over people that you disagree with. There is not a single person in existence that meets their ridiculous standards - they just haven't spotted you yet.
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• woodruffw 5y ago
  I think there are a few noteworthy components to this: * Kamau's post conflates Jews with Israel, which is simultaneously a common, innocent mistake and a rhetorical strategy used by Zionists and the far right. Having read the actual post[1], I'm inclined to believe that Kamau falls for the aforementioned strategy. * One of the Twitter accounts linked in the article, "StopAntisemitism," is a Zionist organization. They've been outspoken in their attempts to conflate Israel (and Israel's Jews) with Judaism as a whole, and to generally delegitimize the faith and politics of the millions of diaspora Jews who reject Zionism and do not support Israel. I am a Jew, and I thought that Kamau's blog post was tone-deaf. But it's also over a decade old, and its chief fault is that it falls for a rhetorical conflation that countless organizations have dedicated extraordinary resources too (that Jews are fundamentally foreigners, that we all belong in Israel, that to be an anti-Zionist is to be an anti-Semite). I don't think he deserves blame for falling for that dirty trick. [1]: https://web.archive.org/web/20210601160519/https://www.kamaubobb.com/hidden-blogs/2007/12/if-i-were-a-jew https://web.archive.org/web/20210601160519/https://www.kamau...
  • mcguire 5y ago
    Excellent point! But it's not a rhetorical strategy just used by Zionists and the far right. Zionists, as you say, wish to conflate Jews with Israel, so that any criticism of the latter will appear to be an attack on the former. Anti-Semites wish to conflate Israel with all Jews so that criticism of the former can be made to be an attack on the latter. It's a mess.
  • Udik 5y ago
    > They've been outspoken in their attempts to conflate Israel (and Israel's Jews) with Judaism as a whole But let's not pretend that the connection between Israel and US Jews is simply a prejudice. Here's an article from the Times of Israel quoting a recent Pew research: "More than 80% of American Jews said caring about Israel was an important or essential part of what being Jewish means to them." [1] If this is how important is Israel to American Jews identity ("important or essential part of what being Jewish means to them") then it makes sense to ask them, as a group, how do they reconcile this identity with the violent actions of Israel. [1] https://www.timesofisrael.com/as-gaza-conflict-escalates-heres-what-us-jews-think-about-israel/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/as-gaza-conflict-escalates-her...
• ffggvv 5y ago
  lol if someone had written this about any other race they’d be immediately fired (look how agm was let go like a rock from apple or james demore) but this person gets to keep their job despite blatant racism because it’s against the right groups (and because of what group they belong to)
• GoodJokes 5y ago
  Posting is a sickness.
• yownie 5y ago
  From the blog post: >"Suffering and oppression typically give rise to sympathy and compassion among the oppressed" Is there any evidence this is true however?
• chakhs 5y ago
  It's weird how people are judged by what they wrote/said without anyone asking them for clarification for what they meant? I feel like with "Jew" in the excerpt he means Israeli, which is more like a political view. Basically saying if you support Israel you have an insatiable appetite for war. And honestly there always is some vagueness regarding the word jew, it can refer to religion, race, sometimes an ideology or a country. It could be a racist comment though, but I think it's good to give people the opportunity to clarify rather than chace any utterance they make. No one can express themselves with exactitude Everytime they speak or write a blog, it wasn't a book.
• yosefjaved1 5y ago
  Here is the original post he wrote if anybody wants to read it (it's a quick read. 5 min): http://web.archive.org/web/20210602000424/https://www.kamaubobb.com/hidden-blogs/2007/12/if-i-were-a-jew http://web.archive.org/web/20210602000424/https://www.kamaub...
• idiotsecant 5y ago
  I was expecting the typical criticism of Israeli government = antisemitism junk but that's definitely not what this was. It's not like the guy wrote this in the 50s. It was obviously a little eye-raising in 2007 as well. I think Google made the right call here.
• aritmo 5y ago
  It is quite evident that this person has been affected by the plight of the Lebanese and the Palestinians. As unbelievable as it may seem, many modern-day Israelis consider the Palestinians to be sub-human. That the Palestinians do not deserve their land. This attitude is indoctrinated through the military service. They make the Palestinians in Gaza really suffer. That article is hard to understand. Makes yu think that this person witnessed somehow whats going on there.
• akarma 5y ago
  Being reassigned as opposed to fired is quite the privilege. Everyone in the comments is viewing it as completely different than the Damore fiasco because this racist blog post was written in 2007, but are we forgetting that Antonio Martinez wrote Chaos Monkeys 5 years ago and was fired for it now? [1] What's the difference between: 1) Most women in the Bay Area are soft and weak, cosseted and naïve despite their claims of worldliness, and generally full of shit 2) If I were a Jew I would be concerned about my insatiable appetite for war and killing I think it's absurd that the former is worth firing and the latter isn't. Google has a reputation to be a more 'progressive' company than Apple; is that just code for undertones of anti-semitism? [1] https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/world/employee-fired-for-sexist-views-says-apple-was-aware-of-his-book-chaos-monkey-calls-tech-giants-statement-defamatory-6895781.html https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/world/employee-fired-for-s...
  • bjourne 5y ago
    You are misrepresenting Kamau Bobb's blog post by cherry-picking a single sentence from it. This is the first paragraph of his post: > If I were a Jew today, my sensibilities would be tormented. I would find it increasingly difficult to reconcile the long cycles of oppression that Jewish people have endured and the insatiable appetite for vengeful violence that Israel, my homeland, has now acquired. This reconciliation would be particularly difficult now, in November, 79 years after Kristallnacht – the Night of Broken Glass. The anniversary of this dreadfully monumental day in my history would bring me pause. It would force me to reflect on the legacy of extraordinary human suffering. I might wonder how the vicious eruption of cruelty in the mid-twentieth century has influenced the shape of my identity as a Jewish person and our collective identity as Jewish people. He is imagining a dichotomy; commitment to Israel and to humanist values. "If I were a Jew today, my sensibilities would be tormented." This does not sound like anti-Semitism to me.
    • akarma 5y ago
      I'm choosing a specific sentence that has been highlighted as unacceptable and is meant to disgust. I'm sure there is much more to the book Chaos Monkeys than "SF women weak," yet he was fired for that comment within his book, with no care given to context. Hence the question, why the double standard?
• RickJWagner 5y ago
  If only there were some facility for searching out past web postings. Might have saved some embarrassment.
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• icha 5y ago
  But he was correct? He did not imply anything even remotely anti-Semitic, just accused a sovereign state of conducting violence.
• woko 5y ago
  That blog post is disgusting, and 2007 was not such a long time ago. There is no way one can be: - the head of diversity, i.e. THE LEADER pushing for justice and equality for minority groups, - while having an anti-Semitic inner-self, i.e. secretly advocating for the discrimination of a minority group.
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