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Apple introduces 8-core MacBook Pro

• ddon 7y ago
  and looks like the same problematic keyboard :-/
  • Zhenya 7y ago
    Where did you see the photo of the keyboard?
  • alexgaribay 7y ago
    It's a new generation of the keyboard. Hopefully it turns out to be way more reliable.
    • kimi 7y ago
      It would be a major achievement to make it less reliable. I have had computers for ~40 years now, and none had a keyboard as bad as the one I'm using now (MBP13, 2018).
  • michaelmior 7y ago
    It's really frustrating and I don't really want to go without my machine for the time it would take to fix. Unshaky has really helped in making my keyboard usable. It basically detects and eliminates duplicate keypresses within a configurable threshold for each key. https://unshaky.nestederror.com/ https://unshaky.nestederror.com/
    • fredsted 7y ago
      To me it’s absolutely insane that people have gone to the lengths of actually writing software in order to fix a very basic issue with an extremely expensive luxury product of the worlds largest company. One in this thread mentioned using tape to cover up the Touch Bar in order to avoid triggering it accidentally! Apple ducked up big time with the post-2015 generation MacBooks, and it was caused by the weird hunt for thinness and gimmicky features which nobody want from a professional portable workstation. "Thinner than a 2015 MacBook Pro" is last on most people’s wishlists. What good is a thin laptop if the keyboard fails and the performance you pay for can't be used since the operating temperature is too high? It says a lot about a company when a large amount of customers just don’t care for the new features and they just want the new performance in the old form factor. It’s like the ones who made the current generation never uses a laptop, and has no idea about how people are actually using the product.
  • MBCook 7y ago
    They changed something in it and claim it’s fixed (yet again). We’ll see how it shakes out. But if you don’t like butterfly keyboards... yep, still butterfly even if it’s reliable now.
• alt_f4 7y ago
  1. No OLED 2. No keyboard fix 3. No thin bezels 4. Still annoying touchbar. 5. $2799 for the 8-core with 16GB RAM and only 512GB SSD. Hahaha.. No, thanks.
  • kimi 7y ago
    And no ports, so you have to bring the freaking dongles wherever you go.
    • swozey 7y ago
      What're ya talkin' bout! It's no problem at all! https://i.lensdump.com/i/WHUBii.jpg https://i.lensdump.com/i/WHUBii.jpg gross.
  • toasterlovin 7y ago
    FWIW, this update includes an updated keyboard. Whether or not that's a fix remains to be seen.
    • alt_f4 7y ago
      Given it is the 3rd attempt at fixing a fundamentally broken mechanism design, I think it's fairly likely it doesn't actually fix anything. Edit: lol, they actually have already included this new laptop in the keyboard replacement program: https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-mac-notebooks/ https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-m...
      • McDev 7y ago
        I find it astonishing that they've included it in the replacement program. That gives me no confidence whatsoever, and after having replaced and returned both 2016 and 2017 MBP models, I am going to stay well clear of this keyboard form factor.
        • toasterlovin 7y ago
• dkarl 7y ago
  I think Apple needs a tick-tock development cycle where the tick is making their products thinner and the tock is fixing all the usability and reliability regressions.
• mtmail 7y ago
  https://techcrunch.com/2019/05/21/apple-announces-new-macbook-pros-with-more-powerful-processors-and-yes-updated-keyboards/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/05/21/apple-announces-new-macboo... "Today, however, [Apple] told me that they’re taking three explicit steps to help with the keyboard situation. 1. The MacBook Pro keyboard mechanism has had a materials change in the mechanism. [...]"
  • Eric_WVGG 7y ago
    Big news to me is that replacements of older butterfly keyboards (program extended again) will receive new 4th-generation keyboards. Previously if you brought a 1st-gen in, you'd get a new 1st-gen keyboard.
    • velcrovan 7y ago
      The articles make clear that only 3rd-gen replacements (the ones with last year's new membrane) will get today’s new keyboards. 1st and 2nd-gen customers are still stuck (no pun intended) with their original problem designs.
      • el_benhameen 7y ago
        I just had the keyboard (really the entire top assembly) replaced on my 13" 2016 mbp, and I'm pretty sure it got the 4th gen keyboard. The keys feel and sound significantly different, and the Apple employee who did the replacement (or I think that's who I talked to) said that they were putting redesigned keyboards in for the replacements. I was pretty unhappy that I had to get this done and I'm still not in love with the machine, but I will say that with less than 24-hour turnaround and the new key feel, the replacement process left me with a good impression.
        • gnicholas 7y ago
          That's really interesting. Where are you located? I had my 2017 done a few months ago (back when they were shipping them all out), and I definitely got the old mechanism. Would love to get the new version!
• thsowers 7y ago
  Wish there was an option to buy a 15 inch with no touch bar. I cannot find any suitable use for it on my current model, and I often hit items inadvertently due to the lack of tactile feedback
  • VectorLock 7y ago
    I feel like this is such a common refrain and yet when a maker like System76 tries to enter this market they still still fuck it all up by jamming a number pad in the side. Why do they all do this?
    • acomjean 7y ago
      System76 is using OEM gaming laptops, so are probably a little limited in what they can do. They keys are slightly smaller (I think), but I have gotten used to them. I do like having the number pad though. The only thing I'm missing in my mac -> linux conversion, is lightroom (it seems to process raw files better). I'm getting better at the linux equivalent "darktable". I sometimes feel I would pay for software on linux to get a polished experience.
      • VectorLock 7y ago
        I don't even care about the Linux environment so much as I just want a physical enclosure equivalent in finish to the 2015 era 15" MacBookPro.
  • deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  • neural_thing 7y ago
    I just want a MBP that is a late 2013 body with modern hardware inside it. I know there are many others like me.
    • tomca32 7y ago
      This so much. I would have upgraded at least twice already if that was an option. Sadly, it isn't and that's why I still use a pretty old model hoping it doesn't get too obsolete soon.
• slezyr 7y ago
  > Apple introduces first 8-core MacBook Pro, the fastest Mac notebook ever You can use phrase "the fastest Mac notebook ever" each year when a new notebook released.
  • copperx 7y ago
    They don't even have to release a new model.
    • lostlogin 7y ago
      We really wish they would though.
  • scarface74 7y ago
    Oddly enough though, in 2014, they introduced Mac Minis that were slower than the previous generation.
  • yumraj 7y ago
    That's how they launch the best iPhone ever every year.
  • r3bl 7y ago
    Apple is well-known for never talking about competition. They like to pretend it doesn't exist and only compare their products to the previous series.
  • gk1 7y ago
    I don't get why companies keep using this phrase... Of course the new model is "the best ever," so why even say it.
• vernie 7y ago
  Great, no need for a new Mac Pro!
• clarry 7y ago
  Still using Intel CPUs, judging by the fine print.
  • chrisseaton 7y ago
    It'd be massive news if they weren't - you'd be hearing about that first not having to look for it in the small print.
  • MBCook 7y ago
    They won’t switch without a period for developers to get ready, like the PPC to Intel transition.
    • timw4mail 7y ago
      Switching to AMD shouldn't require anything from a developer.
      • MBCook 7y ago
        Agreed. I was assuming ARM. However I don’t see Intel switching to AMD. They have all the same problems, more or less. Primarily Apple has little control over their future with an outside supplier.
  • jamesu 7y ago
    I too am still waiting for the mythical bitcode powered 100 core ARM MacBook here.
• aidos 7y ago
  Is it possible to get them without the touchbar? I’ve pounded my poor old MacBook (2013) into submission and the bottom row of keys are starting to not work intermittently. We’ve got a bunch of the newer machines in the office and I just can’t get on with that keyboard and touchbar.
  • ericabiz 7y ago
    I strongly feel you would be better off getting the keyboard replaced in your MBP 2013 than upgrading to a new MacBook. (See my post history/other comments on this thread for my background and a more thorough explanation.) A keyboard upgrade would be around $200 or less—check local shops near you for price quotes.
• CommanderData 7y ago
  Any news on their broken keyboard design? I might bite if they've fixed this. Oh and no touch bar.
  • MBCook 7y ago
    They claim (again) to have fixed it. Not worth buying until we have at LEAST a few months of experience to see if they really did this time.
  • wlesieutre 7y ago
    >The MacBook Pro keyboard mechanism has had a materials change in the mechanism. Apple says that this new keyboard mechanism composition will substantially reduce the double type/no type issue. Apple will not specify what it has done, but doubtless tear-downs of the keyboard will reveal what has been updated. They say it's improved. But check back in a year or so to see if it works, because the 3rd gen revisions didn't end up fixing it before. If you have a 3rd gen butterfly keyboard, replacements will now use the 4th gen. If you have a 1st or 2nd, they'll continue to replace the failing keyboards with more failing keyboards. Lucky me! In other news for the 2016 MBP, there's a new repair extension program for the "Oops we made the display ribbon cable too short" issue. Haven't had that problem myself, but this was an expensive goddamn laptop and I'm not optimistic about its resale value or lifespan after the 4 year repair window is up. Multiple known design flaws that cost $600-$800, and in the keyboard's case are just putting in more of the same failure-prone parts.
• swozey 7y ago
  These used to excite me because I've desperately needed 32gb and faster procs and used to upgrade every 2-3 years but now I just yawn at MBP releases. I'm so unexcited by everything about this form factor other than the fact that it has OSX. I'm guessing I'll be on my 2016 until I finally bite the bullet and quit using OSX if they don't make a more compelling package to spend my $3k on in the next few years. I don't want thinner. I don't want a touchbar. I don't want this oversized touchpad I touch constantly when it's on my lap. I don't want this terrible keyboard solution required due to the desire for thinness. I don't want to carry 3 USBC dongles or to buy a $350 USBC hub at every single desk I have with monitors (home, work). I want a bigger battery. I want more ports. I want less bezel. I want a chassis that doesn't scratch and dent.
  • skierguy 7y ago
    I thought the same thing. Now I'm stuck with a $1500 Asus laptop that barely plays Netflix a year and a half later. despite an 7th gen i7 and 16gb of DDR4. Now I'm saving up for a Macbook Pro again, despite my hatred for the keyboard and touchbar.
    • hu3 7y ago
      I'd have tried a Dell XPS or Surface Pro.
    • ValentineC 7y ago
      > Now I'm stuck with a $1500 Asus laptop that barely plays Netflix a year and a half later. despite an 7th gen i7 and 16gb of DDR4. Any idea what's wrong with it?
      • tcarn 7y ago
        Yeah I mean a machine like that should be able to run web apps with no problems...
      • jandrese 7y ago
        Maybe he has a spinning disk in it? I see lots of laptops in that price range that go for the 1TB HDD instead of the 256GB SSD. Windows 10 on a 5400RPM HDD is pretty miserable these days, the OS just can't stop touching the disk and it's forever IO bound.
• jdashg 7y ago
  Woah, are they leading the market into 8c (16t?) notebooks? They lagged most vendors in shipping 6c notebooks previously.
  • wmf 7y ago
    Lenovo already announced the 8C Thinkpad X1 Extreme although it isn't shipping yet.
• joshfraser 7y ago
  If only there was a way to buy it without that stupid touch bar.
• scarface74 7y ago
  I just can’t see myself spending that much on a laptop. I can’t productively use my laptop for day to day use without connecting it to two external monitors and keyboard anyway. You can get an 8 Core 27 inch 5K iMac $100 cheaper, with less thermal constraints. Sure I would take one if my company paid for it.
  • swozey 7y ago
    Having one desktop-powerful machine that can turn into a laptop when you unplug it from its dock and go with me anywhere is well worth the extra $100. And I'm saying this as someone with a dedicated desktop just for rendering/games. The desktop gives me customization and upgradability but the fact that I lose portability is huge and I'll never, ever own just a desktop machine. I'd prefer to own a laptop that can do my desktop duties when docked.
    • dharma1 7y ago
      that's the theory, but in real life the macbook won't sustain 5ghz for very long at all, even less so with 8 cores. It simply can't get rid of the heat fast enough and throttles the speed to stay under thermal limits (while still toasting your balls). The situation isn't helped by the GPU inside the same slim mbpro chassis that also gets super hot, it's particularly bad when you run mixed CPU/GPU workloads like rendering. So your desktop ends up being much faster for continuous workloads, even if on paper they both have 8-core 5ghz CPUs. I had the 2018 6-core i9 mbpro. Got rid of it, if I were to buy a new mbpro again I would get a 4-core one.
      • scarface74 7y ago
        So for GPU intensive workloads at least, it seems to make more sense to get a lower spec’d laptop for the road and an external GPU as a docking station if you need the portability.
        • dharma1 7y ago
          Definitely. Apple has a couple of eGPUs they made with Blackmagic (AMD RX580 - you don't want this one - and Vega 56), very slick looking and silent but unfortunately GPUs not user upgradeable and not great value for money. You can use most tb3 eGPU enclosures and an AMD GPU of your choice. Vega64 prob the best choice now, Navi around the corner, can't use NVidia at all thanks to Apple. It'll cost you less than the official Apple eGPU and the GPU will be upgradeable
• Traster 7y ago
  Are the new 8-core CPUs fast enough to make them faster than the old CPUs were before all the Intel bugs? Or are we just ponying up more cash for the same level of performance?
• no1youknowz 7y ago
  As someone who is desperately wanting to upgrade from a mid-2012. I say big deal. No better display like oled. Looks like the same keyboard to me. Oh the material has changed? Who cares, it's the same failing mechanism. More CPU eh? Means it'll just get hotter much quicker and there will be more throttling to be fixed via software. At this rate, for Apple to get my $$$ again they'll have to release a 16" [oled] macbook pro, with a redesigned keyboard and arm chipset so that the body is entirely cool even under load. Maybe in 2022 I can see myself buying another macbook pro. Man, I can't wait till Tim Cook gets replaced. We need another visionary at he helm of Apple. Someone who will push the envelope again!
  • tomca32 7y ago
    The thing is, they don't even need to push the envelope. I would have been happy with a classic MBP with upgraded hardware but without USB C ports and no touchbar. It's just that they keep introducing stupid, useless gimmicks.
    • asark 7y ago
      IMO they needed one transitional design where they replaced the thunderbolt (is that right? I get all their storm-named ports mixed up) ports, and maybe the charger port if they must, with USB-C, but kept HDMI and at least one USB-A. I use the SDCARD port all the time but I could see their getting rid of it. The other stuff? Gimme a break, going all USB-C from a state of no USB-C? WTF was I supposed to plug into it without an adapter or buying all new peripherals and drives?
      • inferiorhuman 7y ago
        All the USB-C ports on the new MacBook Pros double as Thunderbolt 3 ports — IMO this is a big advantage over other laptops where some ports are USB-C only. I've only ever had a 2016+ MBP as a work computer so I didn't mind the USB-C stuff too much (especially with a dock that I didn't have to pay for). The lack of dedicated ethernet port and SD card reader is vexxing though (on my personal 2015 MBP).
• thought_alarm 7y ago
  The arrow keys and touchbar make that machine completely unsuitable for writing code, at least for me. My right hand needs to unconsciously lock on to the arrow keys, and that's just impossible with that layout. There's nothing to grab on to. My new iMac keyboard sits in a drawer collecting dust solely because of the arrow keys. And the butterfly mechanism is unproven and untrustworthy, I don't care how many times they update it. They need to go back to using the same keyboard mechanisms for both their desktops and laptops, and they need to go back to the old arrow key layout. I will wait another year until 2020.
  • andyfleming 7y ago
    There is some claim that they've fixed the keyboard issue. Aside from that, across 2 MacBook Pro's and a MacBook Air, I've had 0 keyboard issues. I don't know if I've just gotten lucky, kept my keyboard clean, or what, but it just has never been a problem for me.
    • garmaine 7y ago
      They claim, but then my MacBook Pro with the upgraded keyboard had to get fixed twice due to the "sticky key" issue. I'm fed up and switching to a different brand.
    • chipotle_coyote 7y ago
      The failure rate of the butterfly keyboard design is clearly orders of magnitude too high and is the sort of thing people should genuinely lose their jobs over (and perhaps they have). But "orders of magnitude too high" might well mean one or two percent, rather than one or two tenths of a percent; outside the company, I don't think we have any reasonable estimates of the failure rate, just anecdotes. My work laptop has no problem, although its lid is usually closed; my home laptop, a MacBook Escape, also has had no keyswitch problems, although I mostly use an iPad for portable work now. Most of my coworkers have new butterfly-switch keyboards and I don't hear of significant issues; I've talked with a couple Mac IT people at different companies and they haven't experienced huge failure rates, either. This is, again, all anecdotal, though; some people will come back and say "I'm in an eight-person group and three of us had bad keyboards."
• will_crusher 7y ago
  Wow, people are really salty about Apple. I too wish they would make a better computer, but for now I continue to use them because they are the only machine that I can work on with little fuss of setup and go. I have the 2018 model with the "Keyboard" which has been fine because I use a Bluetooth Mechanical keyboard anyway and a BT Mouse. I have a single cable or "Dongle" that supplies power, 3 displays, 5 USB 3.0 type A, 2 USB Type C, a SD Card Reader and Ethernet. Its also Daisy-Chained to an External GPU and temps stay good. When I need to go portable I just unplug a single cable and go.
  • cerberusss 7y ago
    Thanks. I feel the same. I work at my client as well as in my own office, and when leaving my desk, I often take my laptop with me. The single Thunderbolt cable is fantastic like that.
• Cacti 7y ago
  The press release is downright misleading. For 8 cores, or even 6, you have to buy the 15" model. Neither are available in the 13" model. And the 15", while starting at $2399, is not the 8 core option, that is the old 6 core option. And of course the 8 core option, at $2799, only has 512GB of disk space and 16GB RAM. If you want a reasonable 32GB and 1TB disk space (which presumably you would if you have a use for 8 cores), it's a whopping $3,600. And that is of course before accessories and tax. I thought that after the overpriced iphone release they would have changed their pricing on everything else, but I guess it's just same old apple.
  • mcphage 7y ago
    > I thought that after the overpriced iphone release they would have changed their pricing on everything else, but I guess it's just same old apple. Well, after they did that other phone manufacturers announced even more expensive phones, so I'm not sure they're stepping back from that so soon.
  • bluedino 7y ago
    $3600 isn't all that much. Bought a G3 PowerBook for that much with 256GB of RAM and 80GB HD.
    • Cacti 7y ago
      And a 20 year old laptop is relevant because... ?
    • gnicholas 7y ago
      256GB of RAM, eh?
      • jandrese 7y ago
        Back in 1999 that would have been the deal of the decade.
• nothis 7y ago
  I checked their store out of curiosity. Switching from 512MB to 1TB SSD: +$400 WHY? This is literally the only thing that bothers me about Apple pricing. I get that you pay for the design, I get the quirks like introducing touch bar, everything. But I don't get why upgrading from a $50 to a $100 SSD adds 400 dollars.
  • bazooka_penguin 7y ago
    This sort of "upgrade" nickel and diming is true of every laptop vendor, but Apple is definitely one of the worst. It's like their pricing structure is stuck in 2012
    • askafriend 7y ago
      The SSDs they use really do cost that much though. Even if you got them from another manufacturer they'd be about that expensive. Apple don't use cheap SSDs...they use blazing fast, top of the line units not found on many other laptops. If you have criticism, price isn't a valid one. But you can definitely argue that they should have cheaper/slower options so that consumers who don't need blazing fast SSDs can still benefit from increased storage. Here's how the 2018 Macbook's SSD stacks up against the competition: https://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2018/07/macbookprossdtest.jpg https://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2018/07/macbookprossdt... That's why there's such a huge price difference. Not because they're randomly picking high upgrade prices to screw customers.
      • holy_city 7y ago
        Geekbench across OS's and motherboards is worthless, especially when they have different file systems. You need to look a the spec sheet for the actual hardware, or compare on the same machine with an aftermarket part. I'm extremely skeptical that Apple has some magic SSD with 6.5x read/write speed of everyone else.
      • pzo 7y ago
        You can buy SSD with the same specs 3.2GB Read and 2.2GB Write for much cheaper. Samsung sells 970 EVO 1 TB m.2 for $300 [1] but you can even buy cheaper on amazon for less than $235. Keep i mind those +$400 was price for upgrade from 500GB to 1TB not the price of 1TB which is much much more. For example Apple charges upgrading macbook pro 13 from 128GB (silly they even offer pro machine with such small SSD) to 1TB for..... $800! So in other words prices their 1TB SSD disk for ~$1000. It's insane. [1] https://www.samsung.com/us/computing/memory-storage/solid-state-drives/ssd-970-evo-nvme-m-2-1tb-mz-v7e1t0bw/ https://www.samsung.com/us/computing/memory-storage/solid-st...
• nuccy 7y ago
  8-core CPU, even presumably with HT off after all the recent Intel vulnerabilities, makes me laugh after my personal experience with my late 2016 MacBook Pro 13 touch bar with fastest (at that time) i7. During normal browsing especially with plugged charger, it was heating so much that something in the keyboard was unglueing. The space bar and 'c' produced different clicking sound. I was quite unhappy with that since it was my first experience with Apple products. I took it to Apple Store, they replaced the top part (with keyboard), it fixed 'c' and 'space', but issue appeared in '~' and 'tab'. I took it again to Apple Store, they replaced top part again. And again same issue with different keys. I took it there again, since replacing top case didn't help they proposed to replace whole laptop. I agreed. New laptop had the same issue again so I had nothing to do but wait when Apple will acknowledge the issue. They didn't but started to replace keyboards because of key stucking issue, so I requested a fix again and finally they managed to fix it...
  • ajconway 7y ago
    8-core CPU means that I can rebuild my code almost twice as fast. That's 8 minutes vs. 16. Doesn't make me laugh. I guess there's a reason it's "Pro".
    • nuccy 7y ago
      Sure, performance will increase, I'm not arguing with that. I was just refering to my own experience. Personally, particarly this issue, made me use servers/clusters more, so data analysis or massive code compilation I do remotely, and for me 'Pro' now means a stable OS, good screen, good touchpad, good sound laptop which just runs IDE and browser (and occasional small Python tests of algorithms in Jupiter).
    • callalex 7y ago
      The performance will only be better for the first 30 or so seconds anyway before the cpu has to start thermal throttling.
      • nomel 7y ago
• dharma1 7y ago
  How's the thermal handling with the 8core? Full speed for half a minute, then throttled?
• ericabiz 7y ago
  We repair these as part of our business, and to be clear, both the keyboards and the screens are failing on these at an alarming rate. iFixit detailed the issues with the screens, which (in Apple's unending quest for "thinness") use a thinner flex cable to connect the display to the rest of the laptop. This thinner cable is prone to breakage, and we are already seeing 2016-2017 MacBook Pros in our shop regularly for this issue. Since Apple built the flex cable into the display, the only solution (even from third parties like us) is a new display. At $600-$700 each, this is unacceptable. And, like the keyboards, this is a part that's pretty much guaranteed to fail (unless you basically never open your laptop.) Apple hasn't announced a fix yet, even with a petition with over 11,000 signatures, and more screens failing by the day. From the time the keyboard issues happened, I made a strong recommendation to avoid buying these. If you can do your work on a PC, do so. (Personally, I now use a Dell XPS 15 as a "desktop replacement", and kept my old 2013 MacBook Pro around too.) If you need a Mac, consider a desktop version (with a SSD!), or stick with the 2015 or older MacBooks. Even if you think the keyboard issues are fixed, consider too that this is the 4th generation of these keyboards--and Apple promised that the 2nd and 3rd generation would fix these as well. This plus the screen issues means switching to PC if you need speed should be a serious consideration. iFixit article on "stage light" display issues/"flexgate": https://ifixit.org/blog/12903/flexgate/ https://ifixit.org/blog/12903/flexgate/
  • unicornfinder 7y ago
    I would add to this that I genuinely don't think that the keyboard failures are due to dust - it seems far more likely to me that the switches are simply failing due to poor design.
    • pathartl 7y ago
      Is the switches failing because of dust not poor mechanical design?
  • JohnJamesRambo 7y ago
    Thank you so much for sharing this information.
  • 7y ago
• debuggerpk 7y ago
  There was a rumor about a new 16.5 inches mbp. I guess that would be another year then. https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/02/17/apple-plans-new-16--to-165-inch-macbook-pro-in-2019-aimed-at-gamers-pro-designers https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/02/17/apple-plans-new-1...
• o10449366 7y ago
  I just upgraded my 13" 2015 Macbook Pro's SSD from 256GB -> 1 TB for ~100 USD. With 16 GB of RAM, a great keyboard that's given me no issues, recently replaced screen lamination under warranty, and now a faster and larger SSD, I see absolutely no reason to upgrade to the new generation of Macbooks in the next few years.
• thesagan 7y ago
  I'll buy one after they remove that touchbar. Please remove the touchbar.
• luckydata 7y ago
  Did they introduce a keyboard that doesn't suck?
• teilo 7y ago
  Glad to see a laptop with Coffee Lake. AVX-512 makes a big difference for code that can use it. Also in this update: Pro Vega 20 GPU is an option.
  • MikusR 7y ago
    Cofee Lake has no avx-512
    • teilo 7y ago
      You're right.
• nippler 7y ago
  Love these overpriced facebook machines lmao
• m0zg 7y ago
  As a Vim user: no physical escape key, no deal. I've recently tried working on one of these, and the bar is really annoying for another reason: as you switch between apps it keeps changing right in the corner of your vision, distracting from what's going on on the screen. WTF were they thinking?
  • thruhiker 7y ago
    I was also of this mind but I'm really pleased with the workaround of mapping Caps Lock to Escape (more ergonomic when using Escape) and mapping Left Shift + Right Shift to Caps Lock when pressed simultaneously. I use Karabiner-Elements (https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/document.html https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/document.html) to implement these remaps in addition to some others such as Shift + Delete/Backspace for forward delete.
    • dguo 7y ago
      Seconded, though I also make my caps lock function as control when held down: https://www.dannyguo.com/blog/remap-caps-lock-to-escape-and-control/ https://www.dannyguo.com/blog/remap-caps-lock-to-escape-and-...
    • m0zg 7y ago
      The problem with this is this is just one of half a dozen other computers I'd be using. I see no reason whatsoever to remap anything to anything after paying nearly $4K for the privilege. It should adapt to the way I've been doing things for the past 25 years, and intend to continue for 25 more.
  • unicornfinder 7y ago
    As a Vim user, just do what any sane man would do and rebind caps lock to escape. Much better.
    • xchaotic 7y ago
      what's a good way for vim to have that when you ssh into a remote box? Would you do the rebinding in the Terminal app or something, agent forwarding or something similar? I ssh into newly provisioned boxes regularly to edit some config files so I'd need something that works not just locally...
• gilbetron 7y ago
  After 8 years of macbooks, after using the 2018 model, I switched to a Dell Precision 5530 running Ubuntu 18.04 and it is awesome. The hardware is great, and having Unix under it all was the only real reason I liked Macs (used to be hardware, too). Granted, I don't need Adobe stuff, or anything else that doesn't run or have an alternative on Ubuntu (although it is dual-booted with Win10, but I've never used it, just keep it for when I want to play a game) The Macbook pro 2018 was the worst laptop experience I've had in at least 15+ years. So disappointing, but maybe this will let Unix laptops finally start taking real market share.
  • noodlesUK 7y ago
    The precision 5530 is an absolutely fantastic machine. Best laptop I’ve ever owned. I was a MacBook Pro user since 08, and when it came to replacing the ailing 2013 MBP, I was not at all impressed with what apple had to offer. Fedora was a great experience (using i3, but gnome is pretty nice too), and I haven’t looked back at all. The only downside is that I can’t do iOS development on it, but that can be handled with a VM where necessary. I only wish dell made them with an AMD gpu rather than the Nvidia Optimus garbage.
  • novembermike 7y ago
    Yeah, I'll probably be switching to a Surface Book. I don't mind spending for a premium laptop but I care about it feeling good to use and I just don't like the newer Macbooks.
  • endymi0n 7y ago
    I can only come to the same conclusion. Typing this on a 2018 MacBook 15 inch, and it's a disaster. I still keep accidentally hitting the Touchbar ten times per day while typing (it's not a press-bar, duh), I need a dongle for _everything and their mother_, battery lifetime isn't good, the keyboard is prone to mistyping and double clicks, the screen doesn't get bright enough sometimes, I can't get any higher spec hardware, it really feels like a super expensive toy to me. I'd buy something different if there was a real alternative OS-wise (I feel too old to compile my own kernel for a glitchy wifi driver, and Windows? Nah, get away...)
• rehemiau 7y ago
  Until it overheats and throttles :)
• mmartinson 7y ago
  I'm currently using the last, best 2015 macbook, and having tried a newer model as a work computer for a short while previously, am dreading the day I need to think about replacing it. How about this apple. "macbook util". The pro line can keep the thin delicate stuff. Give me the 2015 case, screen, keyboard, and magsafe, with some new internals and a usb-c. I'd happily hand over my money.
  • popularrecluse 7y ago
    Yes, a developer's edition. I'll take a heavier, larger device with more and varied ports and extended battery life please. An all-hardware keyboard with a useful arrow-key configuration that doesn't make me press the wrong key all the time. An actual 'esc' key so I have my caps lock key back. </dreamsequence>
    • endymi0n 7y ago
      Is there a petition I can sign? Will pay 20% on top.
      • popularrecluse 7y ago
        While I'm dreaming, I want a smaller touch pad too. That's right where your hands rest. I'm constantly having issues with moving the pointer because of unwanted touches being recognized. I've been using this machine for 6 months now, and as an iOS dev I'm locked in. But I don't love it, even if they thought I was gonna.
        • gumby 7y ago
          FWIW, not resting your hand/wrist but keeping your hand parallel to the floor will reduce your chance of inflaming your carpal tunnel. Consider the large touch pad a gift from Apple in this regard :-)...
          • popularrecluse 7y ago
• TimTheTinker 7y ago
  Apple designers need a new mantra, the age-old adage: "Form follows function." As it is, they're choosing a form ahead of time and compromising on function. The vast majority of users choose Macs because of the great OS and the hardware specs. The "thinness" or "sleekness" is only a nice-to-have, and only if it doesn't require compromise elsewhere.
  • soperj 7y ago
    hardware specs? They usually very outdated. They didn't update the air processor for like 4 generations.
    • TimTheTinker 7y ago
      I didn't mean Apple's are always top-of-the-line. Only that specs are usually close to the top of customers' criteria.
    • rayiner 7y ago
      The Air is an exception—it was in this limbo where it looked like it didn’t have a place in the product lineup between the MacBook and MacBooks Pro. A couple of exceptions is hardly “usually.” The other lines are updated regularly with whatever is the latest in October.
      • ehrtt 7y ago
        12" MacBook hasn't been updated in 2 years.
    • jlarocco 7y ago
      The hardware specs are "meh" at best, but the build quality is still better than the competitor.. I have a newer Thinkpad for work, and it feels cheap and plastic compared to my MBP. The Lenovo creaks when I pick it up with one hand, and just feels flimsy. The MBP feels solid and integrated. I'd love a 2013 MBP with modern components.
      • 7y ago
• victor22 7y ago
  My 2018 Macbook Pro's screen failed. They replaced it for free, but damaged the webcam in the process. They told me I'd need to pay over 500 dollars to get it fixed since I could not prove it was damaged while switching screens.
  • mixmastamyk 7y ago
    Small claims court?
    • DoofusOfDeath 7y ago
      This is a completely appropriate use of small-claims court. It's the one place where a regular citizen can afford a fair trial against Apple in the U.S.
      • treis 7y ago
        Unfortunately you generally have to sue where the corporate HQ is. That makes it impractical for most people.
        • shawn-butler 7y ago
          No you don't
        • eeeeeeeeeeeee 7y ago
          No you don’t. And this is actually why a lot of people win them against corporations — it’s cheaper to just let you have the hundreds or few thousand you’re asking for.
    • solitus 7y ago
      Yeah, my friend did that against Samsung in Canada and it was an automatic win. A few days before the court appearance Samsung bent and sent him the money.
  • penagwin 7y ago
• mizzack 7y ago
  This is pretty pointless considering the previous hex core i9 offering ran into a thermal wall regularly. Without meaningfully overhauling the cooling system there is no reason to think that an 8 core on the same process is going to fare well.
• 2Ccltvcm 7y ago
  There is zero benefit to more powerful CPUs in MacBooks when the thermal profile of the CPU heatsink design leads to throttling very rapidly.
• robocat 7y ago
  What model of Intel CPU is it?
• frogpelt 7y ago
  Is there a marketing person here who can help Apple come up with some good copy for the thicker laptops they need to make? They need to quit being so thin it seems.
  • lostlogin 7y ago
    “We listened”.
    • PascLeRasc 7y ago
      A 2016 Macbook Pro speaking at a graduation, saying "My generation has failed you".
  • tqkxzugoaupvwqr 7y ago
    “Thicc in specs and has the body to show for it”
  • EForEndeavour 7y ago
    "Think̶ different."
    • Hackbraten 7y ago
      Thick different.
• tcarn 7y ago
  My boycott of the Macbook "Pro" will continue until they add additional I/O ports (including HDMI and standard USB ports) and until they add a num pad (a big reason I've stuck with Windows over the years).
  • kitsunesoba 7y ago
    I would hope that if MBPs gain a numpad, it’s optional. For many it’s dead space that moves the home row and trackpad off center, making for an awkward typing position. In my case I won’t even consider a laptop that doesn’t have a no-numpad variant available.
• mtgx 7y ago
  Do these come with HT off and other MDS mitigations enabled by default?
• calebm 7y ago
  32Gb 13inch MBP please.
• hayksaakian 7y ago
  To anyone who has used the apple keyboard service program: https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-mac-notebooks/ https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-m... How long does it take to get your macbook back? I'm having this issue and I want to figure out how long i'm going to be out of commission for
  • dawnerd 7y ago
    About three days. Opted to have it shipped back to me and they overnighted it.
  • gnicholas 7y ago
    They're now replacing them in-store. It was 4 days when I took mine in to the Palo Alto store, back when they had to ship it out.
  • X-Istence 7y ago
    ~24 hours is what it took for my replacement.
• cletus 7y ago
  What a clusterF is modern Mac hardware: - Keyboards with much worse action that are more prone to failure (from dust no less) and require replacing the motherboard to fix... all for a Touchbar no one wants and 0.5mm cut in thickness. - Loss (over the years) of the ability to upgrade the CPU, SSD or memory; - Display failures due to broken ribbon cables; - The USB-C clusterF; and - Loss of MagSafe (this one still hurts). All for a premium price. Go back 5 years and you have two great choices: 1. The 13" Macbook Air for under $1500, which was a great compromise of power, portability and affordability; or 2. The 15" Retina Macbook Pro, which was more upgradeable, less failure prone and had a better keyboard. I bought a 2017 MBP and I deeply regret it. Luckily it hasn't failed yet. If and when it does I may be better off just throwing it away. How did Apple lose its way so badly here? Serviceability matters. It's too expensive to be a throwaway device. So who really cares if your throwaway $44k device can now have 8 instead of 6 cores? Really?
  • X-Istence 7y ago
    > - Keyboards with much worse action that are more prone to failure (from dust no less) and require replacing the motherboard to fix... all for a Touchbar no one wants and 0.5mm cut in thickness. The keyboard replacement replaces the top-case, your motherboard and everything else is transplanted over to the new top-case.
    • hartator 7y ago
      The motherboard is not replaced. “Only” the battery, top case, touch-bar, and keyboard.
      • 9935c101ab17a66 7y ago
        That's exactly what them person you're replying to said.
  • golfer 7y ago
    But look at what we got in return... The laptops are now 1mm thinner than they were before!
• mikestew 7y ago
  I'll get excited when they issue a press release detailing how the 5th generation keyboard is really going to fix it this time, because they gave up on butterfly^W^W^W^Whave an amazing new mechanism. All the cores in the world do me no good if I cannot efficiently input characters into the machine. Better hurry up, Apple, the mid-2012 is starting to get cranky, and I wouldn't want to have to buy a ThinkPad.
• mmastrac 7y ago
  If I get a new Apple laptop, it'll be on a business lease because there's just _way_ too much risk in owning one of these new models with the display and keyboard problems.
• naaaaak 7y ago
  > revised BUTTERFLY KEYBOARD NO BUY. > should reduce missed/double key presses But not fix them. > Announced along with an expanded Keyboard Service Program to cover the 2018 laptops This one will also be affected. Dead laptop line.
• docker_up 7y ago
  When in God's name will they get rid of TouchBar? I DESPISE IT. Why not add the function keys back and add the touch bar above it? I see that there's space above! Am I the only one that feels this way?
  • lukifer 7y ago
    Right there with you. It'd be a neat addition if it didn't require sacrificing F-keys, and/or was an optional upgrade. First thing I checked is if the new 15-inch has a non-Touch-Bar option (the answer is no). I just ordered a new MacBook Air, despite being relatively underpowered, and a significant factor in the choice is that it's the only way to get Touch ID and F-keys.
  • ben7799 7y ago
    Not till Jony Ive leaves? I think this is the root of most of these Apple design faux pas... he goes back to the Steve Jobs Era and was definitely blessed. With Steve gone there is probably no one at the company who can actually say "This is the worst !@#$%^& thing ever!" like Steve Jobs liked to say. Tim Cook doesn't seem to be a product guy or something and trusts Ive too much. Ive's ideas were good back in the day when everything was huge and clunky but he seems to look at everything and try to think it is still not sleek & minimalist enough and he's just gone too far at some point. It's a wonder we still have keyboards at all on these laptops! I have a 2018 MBP and I am lucky.. I use it 99% of the time plugged in at my desk at work. They provided us all with $400 OWC USB-3 docks so I mostly dodge the dongle thing. I have some cheaper dongles at home that live permanently on my desk. So I also don't run into too many touchbar issues since I rarely do anything serious on the internal keyboard. For some reason my usage I don't have battery issues. A lot of my co-workers do. Ad blockers don't help with Docker & Eclipse hogging CPU. I wish for 32GB of ram every day, we got our 2018 laptops < 6 months before they added the 32GB option. Linux is much better, I tried a pilot System 76 laptop our IT let us try. It was great for development, hugely better than the Mac. But it was horrible as a laptop, horrible for going to meetings. Drained the battery in 1 hour if you had to do a WebEx. Constant WiFi & VPN issues. Having to reboot the machine sometimes to clear up issues with external displays and internal displays. I gave it back after a month when I admitted I was wasting 40% of my work time chasing linux issues.
• sigzero 7y ago
  If the internal fan layout didn't change this is going to be baaaad. Apple, make it a little thicker to handle a better keyboard and cooling system.
• higgy 7y ago
  I use a mid-2012 MacBook Pro that still feels ahead of the newer stuff. Progress isn't always linear.
• nihonde 7y ago
  Mac user since 1984. Zero problems with my 2017 MBP other than a loose command key that was replaced same-day, within 5 mins after arriving at the store. My company has bought 20+ MBP in the past two years. We’ve had three units with screen issues (stuck pixels etc) that were all replaced on the spot. None of that outweighs the conveniences of OS X. I’ve been reading about how Apple screwed the pooch for almost forty years now, and yet they just keep taking over the world...
  • Areading314 7y ago
    15% of your laptops have had major hardware issues in 2 years? Seems ridiculously bad given this is a premium product. I will never understand the loyalty to Macs given they are so obviously inferior to PC offerings these days.
    • nihonde 7y ago
      My experience with PC makers was far worse in terms of failure rates and more importantly, support. Small sample size, though.
• simongr3dal 7y ago
  They can try to cram all the overheating CPU power into the thin chassis as much as they like, but it is lagging so much behind in GPU power. The top-of-the-line option, a Radeon Pro Vega 20 with 4GB of HBM2, doesn't seems like it's going to perform much better than an NVidia Geforce GTX 1050[0], and at $350 extra it's twice the cost of a standalone NVidia Geforce GTX 1050. [0]: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-pro-vega-20.c3263 https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-pro-vega-20.c32...
  • swozey 7y ago
    The sad part about this, I thought I'd put together a new Mac Mini as a once a month gaming machine and a daily OSX driver so I didn't have to built an entire gaming desktop. Well there's an absolute ton of issues with external GPUs in bootcamped Windows. So.. that's not even an option.
    • thirdsun 7y ago
      Yes, it's a bad idea. At that point I'd suggest - getting a console, which probably offers the best price/performance ratio - using something like ASRock's Deskmini A300 which is really affordable and features a GPU capable of light to medium gaming - or use a proper desktop setup if you don't want to cut any corners In any case stick to a proper Windows environment for gaming. My daily driver is a Mac Mini, but for gaming I boot up a dedicated Windows box.
      • swozey 7y ago
        Yeah I do build $1500-2500ish gaming PCs every few years. I game a lot less than I did a decade ago, maybe a few times a month, so I wanted OSX around when I wasn't. But I'm done building hackintoshes. I had a really nice one the last 3 years waiting on the Mini to ever (because we gave up) update and it did. I was really excited to use that with OSX as my daily and flip to Windows + egpu when I gamed. I'm glad I looked into it to verify it ran egpus horribly (if at all). I didn't expect there to be any issues with that. Figured it'd be perfect. So now instead I've got a "gaming" desktop that sits pretty idle and a MBP again.. like usual.
• GiorgioG 7y ago
  Do these machines lose any performance due to Intel’s latest vulnerability?
• whalesalad 7y ago
  Knock on wood my Macbook Pro that is now about 6 months old has been holding up flawlessly. Keyboard is great.
• revskill 7y ago
  Apple Computers should have SSD built-in.
  • jandrese 7y ago
    Isn't the SSD on these soldered to the motherboard? You can't get any more built-in than that.
• tartrate 7y ago
  These announcements are getting just as cringey as the Wolfram announcements... "the fastest Mac notebook ever" (x3) "is more powerful than ever" (x2) "the best Mac notebook display ever" and "the latest version of the world’s most advanced desktop operating system."
• sheinsheish 7y ago
  No thank you. Sticking with iMac for the next 3 years. After having to return the new MacBook Pro with the fantastic shaky new ports.
• blunte 7y ago
  Nice. But I don’t need more speed, I need longer battery life, a better keyboard, and a screen that can, at least for short periods, be super bright (for outdoor use). Lack of speed ceased to by my concern with the 2013 MBP (which I still use today).
• wpdev_63 7y ago
  Why would you want to spend 2k+ on a laptop with an abysmal keyboard?
  • swozey 7y ago
    I buy $3k laptops. The only time they're not docked is when I'm on a plane or on my couch..
    • wpdev_63 7y ago
      Apparently buying a macbook is like being a battered wife making excuses for her husband. It's sad and unfortunate.
      • swozey 7y ago
        I can guarantee after owning 30+ laptops in my life you won't find one that I consider the perfect match so I'm just to the point where I know what I want and can deal with flaws in other places as long as that one desire is answered. Unfortunately what I want is OSX.. But trust me I've got Amazon open and am ready to swipe right on something new and better whenever it comes along.
• j-c-hewitt 7y ago
  >8-core Intel Core processors, delivering Turbo Boost speeds up to 5.0 GHz, while the 13-inch MacBook Pro with Touch Bar features faster quad-core processors with Turbo Boost speeds up to 4.7 GHz. Cooled by what? Oh, right, almost nothing. If you actually know enough about computers to know what those numbers mean, you also know that those clock speeds cannot be sustained with this laptop's cooling solution. It is just baffling people who don't know better with numbers.
• bsaul 7y ago
  Funny how people used to be apple hardware sold the software after steve jobs decided to end the mac clone strategy. But judging by all the comments out there, it feels now that the only reason people buy mac hardware is because of mac os.
  • mwfunk 7y ago
    I never had that impression, I always felt like the software sold the hardware. The hardware was always premium hardware with premium prices and correspondingly premium margins, but because the hardware was so good, people who bought it mainly for the software felt good about their purchase, and didn't mind paying extra for higher-end hardware than they might otherwise buy for themselves. This avoids the race-to-the-bottom dynamic that resulted in the Windows PC market getting saturated in low-quality, low-margin hardware for so many years. Put another way, having great software enables upselling thriftier consumers on the hardware, which is the thing that actually makes money, especially now that OS upgrades are free and don't make money on their own. As long as both the software and the hardware are indeed great, then people feel good about their purchase. If it's no longer the best hardware (or the best software), then that positive reinforcement loop goes away, and you end up with users who still like macOS, but not as much as they used to, who are doubly frustrated because they feel like they have to spend even more money on hardware that is no longer best-in-class, and has features that they're paying extra for that they view as negatives (touchbar, butterfly keyboard, unergonomically huge trackpad, minimal ports, dongletown, unasked for levels of thinness that forces so many compromises, greatly diminished resale value, etc.).
    • bsaul 7y ago
      I’m not sure how old you are, but for a very long time mac os was actually almost a liability : you never knew if the software you needed was going to run on that platform. That’s why mac was for a very long time used only in niche markets ( sound and graphic designers, then developers started to use it starting mac os X). Also, you think to mix hardware with hardware power, but you seem to forget design. The mac renaissance of the steve jobs 2 era started with a new line of cute colored imacs, great advertising, and strong brand recognition. Those kind of things you don’t get with software.
• eecc 7y ago
  Best 80-something € spent so far were on a new battery set https://eustore.ifixit.com/en/Parts/MacBook-Parts/Macbook-Pro/15/Retina/Late-2013/MacBook-Pro-15-Retina-Late-2013-Mid-2014-Battery.html https://eustore.ifixit.com/en/Parts/MacBook-Parts/Macbook-Pr... Cost me 2 hrs and some bruised fingers but I'm good for years. And if Apple hasn't amended this disaster when this battery fails, I'll replace it again.
• paradox1234 7y ago
  Anyone have the latest scuttlebutt on the switch from Intel to ARM processors? My sources of mac gossip are pretty outdated these days...
• kabdib 7y ago
  Until they fix the keyboard for real I'm not going there. I might hold out for a USB type A port, too -- other companies make perfectly good laptops with these. How dependent is Apple on the "nerd factor" with its laptops? They definitely got a boost from capturing designers and "hip engineers" a while back; if these folks got disgusted and left, would it matter now?
• dirkg 7y ago
  The MacBook has always been mediocre hardware hyped and marketed beyond all reason. Even way back all the nonsense about unibody construction was a total myth, Thinkpads were even more durable but didnt have the hype. Apple knows they will keep selling these things due to the brand image.
• MrLeftHand 7y ago
  The whole thing can't keep a 4 core CPU from overheating and throttling. Not too mention with that small power brick and the USB-C charging cable, you can't even provide enough power to that beast of CPU regardless of i9 being less power hungry then the i8 is. Apple just doesn't want to learn.
• rasfincher 7y ago
  I've just about given up on Apple. My spacebar on my 2017 15" MacBook Pro started going bad after only three months. Bundle that with the pointless Touchbar and the arrow key layout and I just can't see myself using another until they sort all of that out. I recently switched to a Dell XPS 15 9560 running Pop!_OS. Talk about a simple setup for a Linux system running a HiDPI screen. Before that, I was running Manjaro with i3 and it was fairly easy to set up but took a bit more fiddling.
• diziet 7y ago
  I assume the New CPUs are 14nm Coffee Lake-H: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_i9_microprocessors#Coffee_Lake-H_(14_nm) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_i9_micropro...
• deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
• djbelieny 7y ago
  Thank you but no, thank you. Too little, for too much, too late. In the best GoT tradition: NOT TODAY!
• chx 7y ago
  It is really tiresome to see every single thing Apple introduces here... but when Lenovo introduced the X1 Extreme with the exact same CPU, where's the HN article? Why the fruit toy is so important?
• ilovecaching 7y ago
  OLED is the future of laptop displays (all displays really). I won't buy a new MacBook Pro until we get one. Until then I'm looking to get the new X1 Extreme.
• vijaybritto 7y ago
  Apple says the machines are 40% faster. But Intel has patched their ZombieLoad vulnerability this week which is a 40% perf hit. So these machines are going to be as fast as unpatched machines that we have today?!
  • Shank 7y ago
    The 40% performance drop only applies if you turn off hyperthreading, which nobody (including Apple) is doing out of the box. You can consider these processors vulnerable to ZombieLoad and unpatched out of the box. The timeline for development of a new product like a laptop is so long that these have been planned for months prior to the vulnerability announcement, if not a year or more. If you want a machine that doesn't have ZombieLoad, and is also Intel, you have to wait until they really patch it in new hardware or disable hyperthreading. "The 40% figure is only with hyperthreading off" source: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210107 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210107
• dkobia 7y ago
  I work on both a MacBook pro 15 with 32 gb and a Thinkpad X1 Carbon 32gb everyday. Apple is still light years ahead. The inconsistent UI on a Windows machine is infuriating, but Office is unsurprisingly powerful for teams. 8-core? I'll happily take it. Windows is retarded. The lack of empathy in user experience adds up to countless wasted hours.
• modzu 7y ago
  well what everyone seems to be missing here is this: we don't have a choice. the alternatives are not better. so apple has no incentive to make its products better, in fact there is incentive to make them worse in order to cut costs and increase revenues (a luxury afforded by the lack of comptetition). the profit margins on dongles are probably much greater than on anything in the system. until something comes along to seriously challenge their monopoly, or apple discovers the kind of pride it had under jobs, it will continue to get worse (at least for us folk who actually use these machines to their potential. there is clearly a market for which they are stylish instagram viewers). this is a great opportunity for MS, who is heavily courting developers. now with linux subsystem et all and all that's left is to close the trackpad gap. apple can fade away into irrelevance.
• bussierem 7y ago
  Okay but hold on a second, I didn't see this in any of the comments so far: A fully specced new macbook pro with the i9 costs 6500 DOLLARS. i9 CPU, 32GB RAM, 4TB SSD, and Vega Pro GPU. I have spent, in 15 years of owning/building computers and laptops, around $8000 total. The fact that these numbers are even comparable is insane.
• joemaller1 7y ago
  None of the promo pictures show the keyboard, Touch Bar or trackpad. CPU speed is not the reason I haven't upgraded. Those are.
• princetman 7y ago
  For me 13” Retina MBP circa 2013 was the pinnacle of form factor, price, & performance. Unfortunately they went out of support and employer forced us to upgrade with 15” Touch MBP. I don’t have any complaints about keyboard, guess I’m just lucky in that regards. But new MacOS and hardware are frighteningly unstable. I have observed roughly 1 in 5 times that it’ll crash outright with blank screen when attached to external display. Resetting PRAM, & SMC work for a couple of days and then back to same behaviour. Apple Store had a quick look but stupid thing didn’t crash so they blamed it on faulty cables at work and home. How can a cable can cause it to crash even after disconnected? Unless they up their game I’ll never spend my own money on another Mac.
• woofwoofwoof 7y ago
  Glad I bought the case for my mbp 13 2015.
• crsmithdev 7y ago
  How hot will this thing be with 8 cores? Unless they've cut some ventilation holes in the bottom of the laptop. MBPs aren't exactly known for good thermal regulation (my previous one I had to actually undervolt the CPU so it wouldn't overheat while playing games for even < 30m). Don't see anything re: keyboard so guessing that there aren't any changes there, unfortunately.
  • TenJack 7y ago
    That's exactly what I'm wondering. I returned a recent 2019 MBP because it was getting so hot just after an hour of normal usage.
  • macbookcabler 7y ago
    Dave Lee made a video about the Core i9 (now previous generation) that thermal throttled almost immediately under load. The throttling was so terrible it actually performed worse than the 2017 MacBook Pro. https://youtu.be/Dx8J125s4cg https://youtu.be/Dx8J125s4cg
    • jnskw 7y ago
      That was a software bug IIRC
      • jwatt 7y ago
        His follow-up video after the patch, FWIW: https://youtu.be/UTguywiC9aw https://youtu.be/UTguywiC9aw
• undoware 7y ago
  Command-F K E Y B O A R D 'keyboard' not found Command-W
• mikepurvis 7y ago
  I'm a few weeks into an XPS 15 after a decade of Apple. I'm really liking it as well. I'm even running Windows 10, of all things— between WSL and native SSH + git and friends on powershell via Chocolatey, I'm finding it surprisingly comfortable. I think my main frustration is just that a few things about the trackpad aren't quite right. For example, I can't find a combination of settings under Windows which give the physical right-click behaviour that Mac OS has.
  • plasma 7y ago
    I’m really considering the switch to XPS also; I think their latest model moves the camera back to the top as well. What about the track pad isn’t working? And do you notice any “coil whine” I’ve been reading about? My other choice may be a Precision but haven’t read enough about it. Thank you
    • mikepurvis 7y ago
      I haven't experienced the coil whine issue, but I'm also mostly powering it from a USB-C dock, if that makes any difference. I love how big the screen is— it's a 15" display in a chassis that's barely bigger than my old 13" MBP. That said, camera below the screen is a definite negative, so that's great if it's been moved back; I've just assumed I'll get a clip-on USB cam and leave it at home for VC use.
• donaldihunter 7y ago
  The touchbar is an abortion. A touchpad screen would have been a better innovation. Two dimensional touch area with multi gesture and visual feedback – just like an iphone.
• hartator 7y ago
  Does that mean we won’t have a real update at the usual June event? :(
• residentfoam 7y ago
  after many years of MacBook Pro I recently switched to Lenovo x1 6th + Ubuntu and never looked back .
• reasonablemann 7y ago
  Material change now after the `quieting` mechanism. The can just keeps getting kicked down the road.
• seaghost 7y ago
  I'm still using 6 years old MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Late 2013, bought refurbished version) with Intel Core i7 at 2GHz with 8GB of RAM and 256 SSD, couldn't' be happier.
• achenatx 7y ago
  When the touchbar macbooks were announced,I immediately went out and bought a used 2015 macbook. The great thing about them is that they are good for quite a long time because macs dont tend to get bogged down over time I love the unix lineage on Mac OS with a consumer ready GUI. By far the #1 thing that keeps me from using windows as my main machine is the registry. I do have an old windows desktop that I upgraded with SSD and maxed out the ram and it runs great with windows 10. I also run windows 10 in parallels on my Mac (for the office suite and a few windows only programs. Time machine backup works incredibly well and I can 100% rely on it. I can be up and running in minutes even if my windows 10 image gets completely destroyed. I had a mac stolen, went to the store, bought a new one, restored from time machine almost immediately. The only thing Ive been disappointed in is that the stability of the last two versions hasnt been great. I used to go months without a reboot, now I crash about once every two weeks.
• TaylorAlexander 7y ago
  Just thought I’d chime in to say I’m loving my Thinkpad X1 with Debian. If you want to install Debian on the X1 it’s pretty easy. Just make sure to fix some of the sleep issues using the (easy) instructions on this page, which in my experience still apply to Debian: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Lenovo_ThinkPad_X1_Carbon_(Gen_6) https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Lenovo_ThinkPad_X1_Carb...
  • LeoPanthera 7y ago
    "Just make sure to fix some of the sleep issues..." A great example of why people buy Macs, though. Most people don't want to faff around with hackery getting Linux to work properly. And with Windows 10's horrible privacy issues, Macs are still the best choice. They're buying them for the software, not the hardware.
    • TaylorAlexander 7y ago
      I understand these issues are an impediment to Linux adoption. However people always say this as if Linux is at fault. Well, mostly the sleep issues exist because the laptop ships with windows, and windows has some fancy sleep mode that involves a specific bios setting. Linux uses more traditional sleep settings, so when installing Linux one must change that bios setting and then run a command to tell the OS that setting has been changed. So you didn’t say Linux is at fault, but just to be clear: this is just what you get when the manufacturer doesn’t support your preferred OS. However as a robotics engineer, I prefer open source over ease of use. I’m not suggesting regular people do this, but sharing the tips with the Hacker News crowd who may also be fine with running a few terminal commands to get a great OS experience on hardware which may be a better value than a MacBook today given their issues discussed in this thread.
      • josephg 7y ago
        I think everything you’re saying is right; but also it doesn’t matter. When my mum asks me which computer to buy, I’m not going to recommend the computer that has defects that I can explain away. I’m going to recommend the machine that works out of the box, where I won’t have to goof around with graphics drivers via PPI or whatever to make an external display work.
• chasedehan 7y ago
  I continue to be amazed by releases on Macs about how "powerful" they are. I use a Dell XPS running Ubuntu with 12 cores and 32GB of ram with a 1050 in a 15 inch. It is a really amazing platform, doesn't have these keyboard or screen issues, and cost less than a MacBook Pro.
  • ClassyJacket 7y ago
    Can you link to the 12 core version? I wasn't aware of any laptop with 12 cores, and I can't find a reference to more than 6 on the Dell site.
• app 7y ago
  Just replaced the battery and threw new thermal paste on my Mid-2014 15" for $300. Discrete graphics, no TouchBar and a keyboard with travel. I hope this thing runs for another 5 years.
• _raoulcousins 7y ago
  There are some really cool custom Thinkpads shoving new guts into the classic T60 body. I guess it's not really feasible for MacBooks? I looked for a 2012 or 2013 body with new hardware but nothing. My 2013 is still working, but the screen hinge is loose and it's probably wearing on the display cable. Nothing new there, though. The display cable was the first thing to fail on my white iBook around 2005. Wish I still had the Macintosh Portable with the built in carrying handle and roller ball I found at a garage sale! Now that would be a neat mod. Talk about a good keyboard.
• deafcalculus 7y ago
  Will it be possible to use 8 cores effectively given the thermal limitations of such a thin device? I wouldn't be surprised if the 6 core model gives about the same level of performance for most workloads as the 8 core one.
• NightlyDev 7y ago
  Who cares if it's an 8 core that boosts to 5 GHz? The cooling on Macbooks is thrash and it will throttle on sustained multithread workloads.
• bayareanative 7y ago
  I have an oct-core 13" WQHD 16 GiB/1 TiB SSD hackintosh with 10 hr battery life. Screw Apple with their unrepairable, overpriced, horrible hardware is unappealing.
  • czbond 7y ago
    How?
• afandian 7y ago
  A few months after purchase and my MacBook Pro's keyboard has already been in for repairs and the screen glitch is too intermittent to replicate so they won't fix it. A Mac without Applecare+ is foolhardy -- these machines are engineered to fail under normal use -- so this should be considered as part of the base price IMHO. Applecare only covers 3 years so that's the lifetime of the product. That's an expensive value prop. My colleague's Macbook keyboard broke today. Close to 400 quid to diagnose and fix (we declined, its a huge chunk of the original price). Just ofer 4 years old (which is nothing) and juuuuust out of the replacement programme Apple has for keyboards they knew were faulty. Lifelong Apple suporter until the past few years. Avoid like the plague.
  • tomduncalf 7y ago
    Ugh yeah the 4 year thing sucks. Apple should be saying 8 years or thereabouts in my opinion. It’s clearly a design flaw that they were aware of (and still are trying to paper over) on a very expensive product, but one which is usually loved by customers. Seeing all the negativity this issue causes sucks, as does knowing my 2017 will probably be useless as a laptop one day because of it
• cutler 7y ago
  Having used a Hackintosh as my desktop for the last 10 years without issue I'm inclined to attempt the same for my laptop now that my 2013 Macbook Pro is looking a bit old. At nearly half the price it's becoming a no-brainer. Are there high-end laptops with screens comparable to Apple's retina display nowadays? I'm also assuming disk and RAM can be replaced in Dells and ThinkPads but maybe I'm mistaken?
• iscrewyou 7y ago
  When the first touchbar 15-inch came out, I went out and bought it as I was in need of a computer and I was waiting for the release. I used it for maybe 2 days.... I went RIGHT back and bought a brand new last of the good non-touchbar macbook pros from the preview year. I still have it and it still runs great. I have never had any issues with it. I've even filled out a survey that apple sent me about macbook pros a while ago. And I explicitly wrote to go back in the design of the keyboards, the ports and the thickness. I will use this computer until I can't fix it anymore.
• DenisM 7y ago
  It's remarkable that the reception on HN is so hostile, in stark contrast to the old days. And yet Apple doesn't seem to care, marching on in their reductionist quest. Who are their target PRO users then, if not the developers?
• joering2 7y ago
  $1,800 for 13-inch laptop.
• bochoh 7y ago
  With every model that comes out I keep feeling better about my Mid-2015 15" i7 model. Thinking about buying an eBay OEM 1TB SSD and keeping it for the next 5 years at this point. If anyone has a SSD they'd be willing to part with please reach out!
• multibit 7y ago
  I have a 2015 Retina Macbook Pro and it is still fast enough for me. When it fails I will either buy another of the same model or get a PC and put Linux on it. What Apple has done to this product line is awful. At best it's just bad design, at worst it's exploitative.
• jimmcslim 7y ago
  “Apple introduces 8-core MacBook Pro”* * Performance now equivalent to 6 cores due to Intel microcode vulnerabilities
• robertlf 7y ago
  I'm a web developer and I need a reliable keyboard that's comfortable to type on. The MBP keyboards have been neither comfortable nor reliable since 2015. I've been holding onto my 2015 MBP with it's scissors mechanism keyboard for dear life. For the first time in ten years, my next laptop won't be a MBP. It'll either be a Lenovo ThinkPad or a Dell Inspirion running Linux. Goodbye Apple.
• obahareth 7y ago
  The many failures (keyboard, screen, random freezes that need a hard shutdown) forced me to also switch to an XPS 13 on Kubuntu. I wish Apple would make a good Macbook again.
• mullingitover 7y ago
  It's telling that they immediately list these brand new laptops on their page offering extended support for the defective keyboards[1]. Unpopular opinion, but I continue to believe Apple needs to just walk away from the computer business. It's a negligible part of their core phone business, and it shows. I really wish that they'd license the OS to let people (and OEMs) build quality workstations. [1] https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-mac-notebooks/ https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-m...
• madoublet 7y ago
  I have the 15" 2018 MacBook Pro and would not recommend one until the following issues are resolved: - It runs really, really hot. It cannot be used on your lap. I cannot imagine how hot a faster model would be. - The keyboard is unreliable. I have not had the stuck key problem (yet!), but I do notice occasional crunching like something is stuck in the keys. I do not eat around this machine on purpose. - The Touchbar is really bad. I wanted to like it. But, it is annoying more times than it is helpful. - Not having a touchscreen when every other high end machine does seems more and more like a gap that needs to be resolved. - Windows management continues to be crap in OSX. There are a lot of good things. The screen is good. The touchpad is top notch. OSX is reliable and fast. But, yeah, the hardware just sucks right now. No way around it.
  • makecheck 7y ago
    I agree that the default OS window management is pretty limited but this can literally be solved for $5 or less (sometimes $1) using utilities on the App Store that perform snapping, saved layouts, etc.
    • pdimitar 7y ago
      Can you please give links? I only know about Stay so far.
      • makecheck 7y ago
        For instance, “Window Tidy” or “Magnet” ($0.99). There are probably others.
• ratsimihah 7y ago
  Still no CUDA. Does this one come with a keyboard? I think I'll stick to my almighty 2015.
• jtl999 7y ago
  Wonder how bad this is going to thermal throttle.
• dzhiurgis 7y ago
  For people with double entry keyboard issue, I highly recommend https://github.com/aahung/Unshaky https://github.com/aahung/Unshaky - uses software to ignore double entry. Mine(2018) has developed an issue within 3 months of hard use on one of the worst keys - backspace. I've introduced over 5 bugs because of this shite, by randomly deleting one dangling brace...
• la_barba 7y ago
  Apple still makes very good products, but they're starting to move away from differentiators that made them successful over others. A lot of computing products are what I'd call "engineered to fail". In that, the design of the product sucks in an objective way, and any technically minded person can see the failure coming from a mile away. For e.g. buggy custom software for stupidly trivial tasks like application/system updates, and then making it worse by installing it as a kernel service, or using sub-par plasticky components, poor frame construction, or pre-loading crap-ware, zero attention to ergonomics, not caring if the vendor's software blends with the underlying OS, not caring about UX impact of their software, etc.
• skywhopper 7y ago
  Fascinating that the embedded pictures don't even show the keyboard (or the much-unloved Touch Bar).
• znpy 7y ago
  Meanwhile, non-touchbar 13" macbook pros still have dual-core cpus. Somebody might say "Apple continues the war against its own users".
• kod 7y ago
  Typing this on a Dell Precision 7530. Comes stock with Ubuntu. 128gb of ram, 4 times what Apple offers, at close to the same cost. Linux font rendering still sucks, but I may never use another Apple product again.
• mackey 7y ago
  Didn't they announce the flex gate repair program today? https://www.macrumors.com/2019/05/21/apple-backlight-service-program-macbook-pro/ https://www.macrumors.com/2019/05/21/apple-backlight-service...
  • pier25 7y ago
    It's only for the 13'' 2016 model.
• baxtr 7y ago
  I just love my 2018 MB pro, including its keyboard. Am I crazy? Am I the only one?!
  • jstsch 7y ago
    Nope. Me too. My 2018 MBP 15" is my dream laptop. The machine I've always wanted. Superfast. Light to carry everywhere. Comfy to work with on the couch. Connects to 2 5K displays at my desk. Even the speakers are decent. The 2016's keyboard was too clicky/rattley, but the 2018's is nice and tight.
• hw 7y ago
  Yet another with the horrendous Touchbar. Looks like I'll be holding on to my 2012 MBP for a while more. Maybe will look for a like new 2015 one if there are any still out there.
• musicale 7y ago
  Did they fix that horrible "butterfly" keyboard and the trackpad with completely broken palm rejection?
• vogon_laureate 7y ago
  I own both a 15" Macbook Pro 2017 model with touch bar and a Dell XPS 15" 2017 model. Both have their pluses and minuses. Both needed major repairs. Dell needed logic board and screen replaced. Mac needed logic board and keyboard. I mainly use the Mac. It's much quieter, has an amazingly vivid and bright retina display, extremely good battery life, best track pad in the industry and the best speakers on any laptop I've ever had. I like the keyboard, I even game on it. I don't get the whole dongle issue but I'm not a heavy user of peripherals. I have two USB-C port extender dongles should I ever need anything from ethernet to firewire 800. I've used them like twice in the last two years. The Dell is fine, but I'm just not a big Windows fan. The keyboard is kinda meh, the bluetooth is poor, the screen isn't as bright or vivid and has some light bleed and the build has that cheap plastic feel about it. If it was any more reliable than the Macbook, I think I would be persuaded by the argument about the hardware, but both have had problems, both required lengthy repairs, etc. I have extended warranty on Dell and Applecare for the Mac and I needed them for both. Laptops fail. My PC motherboard with ultra durable components also failed after two years. Heat and dust and micro-imperfections in silicon will do their thing. Sure, Apple made some questionable design choices. It's still a great machine.
  • colordrops 7y ago
    Dell XPS laptops are some of the best Linux laptops out there. No need for Windows. I've been using the same model as you with Linux for a while now and an very happy with it.
    • robert_foss 7y ago
      Agreed, the Linux support for the Dell XPS machines is excellent.
      • tngranados 7y ago
        For real? I have Dell XPS at work an had tons of problems installing linux on it. I ended up finding a respined Ubuntu ISO in github that has plenty of patches pre-applied that mostly works, but still have some issues now and then with random freezes and with a thunderbolt dock. Admittedly, I was not a desktop linux user and didn't have much experience tinkering with it, but a coworker of mine who has been using linux for many years and who I would consider a fairly advanced user (heavily configured distro using his own modified tiled desktop environment, etc) had the same issues and couldn't even figured out how to install Debian on it without having the fans spin up randomly and with everything working (I think the webcam didn't work).
• errantspark 7y ago
  I would be so wildly impressed if this was any better in continuous workloads than the next model down, or even a couple models down. There's no way in hell there's enough thermal headroom for that CPU to fire on all cylinders for more than 30 seconds or so.
• JanSuly 7y ago
  Apple tries to make me a fan of them
• coryfklein 7y ago
  Still only USB Type C ports though on a $2000 machine? It feels like such a rip off. For two years now my primary device has been a MBP with only USB Type C, and for two years now I haven't had a single device I can plug into it without a dongle. I'm so sick of these fucking dongles. Thank god it still has the 3.5mm port, because it must have taken an act of divinity to prevent that part of the Apple crazy from reaching the MBP yet.
• gondo 7y ago
  so this means no macbook pro upgrade during the next apple wwdc event (june the 3rd). i was secretly hoping for a redesign
• rubyn00bie 7y ago
  What sort of frustrates me most about this isn't that I hate the touchbar, or that I'll have to buy it, but that it's hard to find a system with competitive specs that costs as much or less. I want a system with an octo-core i9, 32GBs of RAM, a metal body, and a large multi-touch trackpad. As much as I hate to say it, if you want a high-end laptop, Apple still has the market. I found some Dells that are close spec wise but not all the way there, or systems which are as thick as a deck of magic cards... They're (apple) are gonna get my $4k whether I like it or not.
• jjellyy 7y ago
  I think everyone is overreacting to this. Yes Ive had to buy a can of compressed air but otherwise I like the new keyboard feel and key size. Considering all the tradeoffs im happy
• eugeniub 7y ago
  To the people still complaining about dongles: It's 2019. Maybe buy a couple of USB-C cables and move on?
• sridca 7y ago
  Thinkpad X1 Extreme 2nd generation too. 9th Generation Intel® Core i9-9880H with vPro (2.30GHz, up to 4.80GHz with Turbo Boost, 8 Cores, 16MB Cache)
• rbanffy 7y ago
  I find it rather disappointing they didn't announce 8-core iMacs and Mac Minis at the same time.
• ndrake 7y ago
  https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-mac-notebooks/ https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-m...
• bborud 7y ago
  It says something about Apple when my first reaction is "yeah...I'm going to hang back and see if this laptop too is going to have lots of problems". Apple's war on repair shops doesn't make me want to spend a lot of money on an Apple laptop. It's just a bad investment.
• randomsofr 7y ago
  I got the 2017 model and i regret it, i spent almost 3k for the fully equipped 13" and already had to replace the display ($500 at local authorized shop) and have the keyboard problem. I wish i had stayed with my 2015 :(
• geophile 7y ago
  Useless. Same crappy, defective 5/6 of a keyboard, and defective display. I jumped ship. Love my System 76 Darter.
• Helloworldboy 7y ago
  Contrary to what most people are saying in this thread, I have the latest MacBook Pro revision (2017 model?) and I absolutely love using it. I really like the keyboard and haven't had any problems with it malfunctioning.
• totololo 7y ago
  Does it mean the rumored 16" MBP is dead? https://9to5mac.com/2019/02/19/macbook-pro-16-inch-concept-renders/ https://9to5mac.com/2019/02/19/macbook-pro-16-inch-concept-r...
• totaldude87 7y ago
  Pro mid 2012 user here ,oved to SSD couple of years earlier and added 4gigs of ram this year and happy customer ever. Unfortunately I use external hard disk as boot , and in recent releases of MacOS I think apple started pushing towards fusion drive due to which had to buy a new ssd and move again ( any other alternatives?)
• TheKarateKid 7y ago
  Keyboard issues aside, these laptops are a thermal disaster. Mine heats up and gets loud fans if 20% or more CPU is used for more than a minute or two. My non-Retina MBP would need to be at 100% for 10-15+ minutes for the fans to kick in at half the volume.
• windexh8er 7y ago
  Beyond all the comments about the poor fixability of the MBP (screens), the absolutely horrid keyboard and the laughable amount of RAM in a $3200 laptop, who actually wants these things? They are unusable for a professional who actually types on them all day and now with the ever increasing Intel performance tax why spend the extra money on a processor that will likely have 30-50% less performance than claimed the day you buy it. Apple has become the brand of excess and ignorance.
• cfitz 7y ago
  Do not buy a new one until some other fool (like me) purchases one sight-unseen and shares whether the machine runs without issues. I did this with a top-spec'd 2016 MBP that eventually got replaced with a 2017 due to the frequency of problems. Recently spent too many hours getting my 2017 repaired (& back up to its previous state) for the same issues. Very disappointing given the price point.
• SomeHacker44 7y ago
  Still no 32GB RAM option on 13”. Still no option to remove Touch Bar. Still almost the same keyboard. Pass.
• bartimus 7y ago
  I'm fairly sure my 2012 core-i7 MacBook Pro with SSD and 16GB ram still has comparable performance for most applications. Single core speed has pretty much stagnated over the years.
• actuator 7y ago
  So, I need a personal laptop and I think I will go for the 2013-2015 rMBP. I want to go for X1 Carbon but haven't had nice experience with Ubuntu on it. I looked at the 4 core i7 configurations and they have Geekbench score of 13k-14k. So, doesn't seem that bad compared to the new processors and should hold up on CPU front for three more years I guess. I had a question to people who use 15" MBPs. Since I am not able to get 13" ones with 16 GB RAM. Are the 15" noticeably bulky and less mobile than 13" ones?
  • ianwalter 7y ago
    I don’t think they are and prefer 15” now. I even can fit my 2017 15” in my old Incase bag that was made for the last generation of 13” MacBook Pros.
    • actuator 7y ago
      Ah. Thanks for the info. Newer 15" ones are thinner and smaller so that is possible. I will take my bag and try fitting the old 15" one. :)
  • ballzoffury 7y ago
    Oh no, I was looking to get an x1 carbon because of the supposedly great Linux support. What kind of problems where you experiencing? And was it the 14", or the extreme?
    • actuator 7y ago
      This was the 2017 14" X1 Carbon(not the extreme one). Mostly battery issues, it was holding up very less on sleep and in use. I was using Ubuntu and Ubuntu actually certifies the hardware. The keyboard was just plain awesome though. I don't think you would find a better keyboard in the slim form factor. Since this was an office one, I returned it and continued on my 2014 rMBP. It might have been fixed now btw. I will also try the newer X1s I can before finalizing on one.
• dzonga 7y ago
  I recently bought a thinkpad t490 and installed Manjaro. Best experience I ever had on a laptop. Followed by my late 2012 Macbook pro that served me faithfully for the past 6 years. At work, as front-end dev, I use a 15" 2018 Macbook pro.one of the worst laptops I ever used. Kernel panics weekly. Almost as shitty as one of the Dell ultrabook I used in 2012 before I switched to a Macbook
• lone_haxx0r 7y ago
  But do they have an escape key?
• cageface 7y ago
  After the keyboard on my 2017 MBP started to fail, I “upgraded” to a 2018 model because I couldn’t afford to be without a machine for a week or longer. Now the keyboard on this supposedly improved model is also starting to go. For many years I was a very happy Apple customer and even converted several family members to MacBooks. But now that Apple has shown just how little regard they have for their pro customers by trying to sell us this broken keyboard for the fourth time I’m getting off the bus for good. My next laptop will not be a Mac. Thank god I stopped doing iOS development.
  • 72deluxe 7y ago
    What made you stop doing iOS development? I would consider a Mac Mini for that and remote into it from a decent machine.
    • cageface 7y ago
      Mainly just because I don't enjoy it and don't enjoy building the kind of things people want to build on mobile for the most part. Also because I think the market for native apps is shrinking and that the web has more growth potential.
• randomsearch 7y ago
  My MacBook Air keyboard is a PITA with repeating and spurious keys. The software is buggier ever week. Apps crash, OS X freezes. And I have similar problems with my other Apple devices. Problem is, it’s still far superior for anyone who needs to do technical and general office work. Tried Linux, doesn’t cut it for the latter. And the industrial design etc is still much better. So Apple is on this downward trend in quality, and it worries me because there’s no alternative. Are we just going to see productivity drop across the board as Apple gradually regresses back to the mean? We need more Apple-like companies designing great products.
• yakshaving_jgt 7y ago
  What’s that Apple? You still haven’t fixed the keyboard? Well then I won’t be buying one.
• thrower123 7y ago
  At that price point, I couldn't see the point of buying a Mac Pro, versus buying a real desktop and a disposable Asus or Acer or Chromebook for the rare times I need to lug something around. I think the only thing that might tempt me is if they brought back the 17" form factor, but I don't think they have made those for almost a decade. Those things were monsters, and everyone I know who had one rode it until it wouldn't go anymore.
• eeeeeeeeeeeee 7y ago
  Same great keyboard! /s Utterly ridiculous they haven’t redone this keyboard yet.
• spillbeach 7y ago
  I am starting to think this online complaining is an organised attack on apple rather than anything genuine. Some gullible people still actually believe what they read on the internet in terms of “organic” user comments and companies know it. I don’t know what the failure rate of the keyboards is, only apple could know this, so it is impossible for me to say anything about that. Either way, they keep trying to improve its reliability. As for how it feels, it is faster to type on then the older ones. The new MacBooks also look better. People complain about all of these things like the touchbar as if they type all day on their laptop. If you do, you have serious problems with your neck and posture. It is a laptop, designed for 2 hours per day at most. Meanwhile, people make all these hilarious claims about “how great windows is now with wsl” and how their dell is supposedly great and so on. Ahh, these are compete bullshit. Windows sucks even more now with all the advertising, wsl will always be a shitty emulation layer, and dell make computers that aren’t even comparable to apple in quality. I see people all the time say “they were going to get a MacBook but all the comments put them off”. I would suggest those people wake up and stop putting faith in anything you read on the internet. If you know people having problem with their MacBook, then that is a real data point. Internet comments and videos are not.
• c141charlie 7y ago
  I’ll sacrifice myself at the alter of Steve Jobs. I have a 2018 MacBook Pro with a 6-core CPU and 32GB of RAM and I absolutely love it (with exception to the Touch Bar which sucks if you’re a VIM user). Once you get used to the butterfly keyboard you can fly. The light weight makes traveling with a 15 inch laptop a pleasant experience. The screen, speakers, and touch pad are fantastic. I haven’t had a single issue with the keyboard, and I am constant munching on food, getting crumbs in between the keyboard, etc. Dongle life isn’t as bad as it sounds. Put one in your backpack and use it when needed. I also bought the LG 5K monitor and that has been the perfect compliment to this laptop. OK back to drinking more kool aid.
• Teknoman117 7y ago
  But ... did they fix the keyboard?
• arihant 7y ago
  Honestly, with the new Pro laptops having so much issues, my next Mac setup will be an iMac with an Air. After using the 2018 model, I have a different level of respect for my 2015. So much double typing on 2018, who designed that keyboard? It is not even a Pro laptop for authors anymore, who arguably need the least computing power.
• usr1987 7y ago
  nothing about the keyboard?
• gigatexal 7y ago
  I know the keyboard is garbage but I always get AppleCare and treat my machines very well but if I got a 2019 model with the butterfly keyboard I’d be even more paranoid about dust and foreign particulates getting under the keys. I’m still most productive on OSX but that is changing as the Linux ecosystem gets better and better. If they would just go back to the old pricing model and bring back a sane robust keyboard people would be so much happier.
• valleyjo 7y ago
  lots of talk about the keyboards and the displays. But did they fix the thermal issues?
• mastrsushi 7y ago
  8 cores and no working keyboard
• IloveHN84 7y ago
  What about the mitigation against MDS? Without hyperthreading, the advantages are less perceivable. And how expensive is it? No thanks, up to today, a Dell/Lenovo+Linux goes way way better than MBP and the heavy OSX.
• macboiii 7y ago
  "MacBook Pro now delivers two times faster performance than a quad-core MacBook Pro and 40 percent more performance than a 6-core MacBook Pro, making it the fastest Mac notebook ever.1" Most useless quote ever.
• macboiii 7y ago
  "MacBook Pro now delivers two times faster performance than a quad-core MacBook Pro and 40 percent more performance than a 6-core MacBook Pro, making it the fastest Mac notebook ever.1" most useless math ever
• lylo 7y ago
  The latest Apple magic keyboard has butterfly-like keys and is an absolute joy to type on. No issues after a couple of years of daily use. Why can’t this mechanism find its way into a MBP?
  • saagarjha 7y ago
    > The latest Apple magic keyboard has butterfly-like keys I don't think it does.
• introductions 7y ago
  Nearly 400 replies to a single parent comment. HN is saturated beyond practical use, by both bike shedding and forum sliding, simultaneously. And oh yeah, bot brigades and mechanical turks. Donglegate threatens to cleave a trillion dollar company from a crucial money gland that ejaculates valuable flotsam when palpated. USB-C and headphone jacks. That's what stabbed the company in the aorta. Try to remove the knife and it bleeds out. Tim Cook's homosexuality has been proven as incapable of effective leadership. Try and doubt this. We wouldn't be here if we had a person in charge who gave a fuck about pulling pussy. Never trust a man that masturbates with another man's anus. Ring sphincters are for shitting. Moustaches shouldn't strain cum.
• satysin 7y ago
  I have a max spec 2018 15" MacBook Pro and I love it but this update is just dumb. The 2018 model can't fully use the current hexa-core CPU so slapping another two cores in isn't going to help things. It is going to be basically useless outside of ~5 seconds turbo boost. While I haven't had a keyboard issue it is a constant source of anxiety which sucks. I was really hoping Apple would go with a redesign this year (as unlikely as it was) and I had planned on selling this 2018 model and upgrade but with the same keyboard and a pointless CPU update in same body I will pass. Hopefully next year we see a redesign with a decent keyboard. Also got my fingers crossed for a 120Hz ProMotion display.
• herostratus101 7y ago
  If only they could introduce a working keyboard!
• mikl 7y ago
  And quadruples down on their shitty keyboard design. I guess they never heard of the sunk cost fallacy or the old adage about polishing turds.
• deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
• skilled 7y ago
  Why does it show Fortnite gameplay on the screen? What the fuck?
• consultSKI 7y ago
  When my MBP Mid 2010 died, I bought a Samsung Chrome 3 with 4gig of RAM. It runs linux and 80% of the Android apps. And the battery lasts all day. I may never buy another computer.
• mlang23 7y ago
  As long as they dont do away with the Touch Bar, I am not going to get one. People use machines with real keyboards for a reason. Ruining that experience by forcing a touch component onto a keyboard user is just absurd!
• JoachimS 7y ago
  900+ comments and basically all about the HW issues (keyboard, display connector) and uselessness of the touchbar. Doesn't look good for Apple. (I had to replace my 2015 MBP13 with the a late 2018 model. I am too mightily disappointed and would not buy a new Apple laptop).
• mvip 7y ago
  Still on "MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Late 2013)," which is probably my 5th Macbook Pro (or equivalent) Been waiting for ages for Apple to fix their shit with the keyboard and make 32GB RAM an option for the 13". Hell will probably freeze over before any of that happens. Most likely, I'll have to get a desktop Mac and a Linux laptop.
• auggierose 7y ago
  Got the 6-core one a few months ago, what a great machine. I love the 4 usb-c ports that can turn into anything I want. I like the Touch Bar, the only question is why I cannot get this for my iMac Pro as well. The keyboard is very nice to type on. It is a super fast machine. Love the screen. And with AppleCare plus, I am not afraid of components failing. Stop the whining, bitches.
• wlll 7y ago
  I'll buy a new Macbook Pro the day Apple return Magsafe, a keyboard that I can distinguish between individual keys with my fingers, doesn't break, and isn't loud, and a no-touchbar option. Until then my 2014 MBP will have to suffice, and if that breaks I'll use Linux.
• jk563 7y ago
  Am I reading this update correctly? Is it now impossible to get a new Apple Laptop < 15" with 16GB of RAM? Looks like a Matebook X Pro next time for me, or an XPS. Thankfully my '14 MBP runs beautifully still.
• petoskystone 7y ago
  Who even needs a laptop that powerful
• petoskystone 7y ago
  Who even needs a laptop that powerful?
  • dagw 7y ago
    For whatever reason a lot of companies are going laptop only. The company I work, for example basically banned workstations in the latest round of upgrades. So a lot of people who need what would be a moderately powerful desktop computer end up having to buy ridiculously powerful laptops like this one.
• mark_l_watson 7y ago
  I had the most maxed-out 15” MacBook Pro at the job I just retired from (now at 68 I am just writing and working on my side business developing a knowledge graph- deep learning product). While it was a nice laptop, the System76 laptop with a 1070 GPU I bought for myself blows away the MBPros for what I need (good model training performance and really fast recompile’s of my Haskell code base when I can’t ‘stack —fast’). I have a fairly new MacBook that I still love for its portability and it is great for light weight stuff, but it is not my main driver.
• ethagknight 7y ago
  Apple should really consider including AppleCare+ in these top end machines, particularly given the quality issues of the current model. Apple should provide some indication of confidence in their own workmanship. Or their confidence in their Foxconn quality control commitments. Don’t push that uncertainty off on the customer. I love my 2016 MacBook Pro (touchbar is not great but kinda neat, I’ve replaced my usb-b->a to usb b->c cables so only need a dongle to travel, I can fly on the keyboard IFF my fingernails are trimmed very tight (lol), screen is great, sound is great, it’s fast as hell). However, as you can see in my comment history, I’ve had substantial issues with keyboard and screen outside of warranty. Apple, fortunately and rightfully, has completely taken care of it; but I had several days of consternation while I had to wait and see what Apple decided to do. Makes me really think twice spending a lot on a new one.
• ralphc 7y ago
  I'm on a Mid 2012 MacBook Pro, i7, 16GB of RAM, it does the job for most of my development. My problem is, not development work, but my dependence on the MacOS ecosystem over the past 13 years. Music & iPhone in iTunes, Photos app etc. I can do Java, Python, Node on a PC with Linux but I still need some kind of Mac. What do all the Mac apostates do about that?
• backpackway 7y ago
  Switched last year to Lenovo and while the ecosystem around Windows has for sure its issues, it's still night and day. I've been decades on Macs and I lost the interest for computers then. Since I am back to Windows/mainly WSL somehow this interest came back. Back then, I was smiling at those PC builders with their RGB 'crap' but now I'd love to build my own battlestation with RGB everywhere. The PC ecosystem is more authentic, honest and more about tech.
• dfrey 7y ago
  16 -> 32 GB of ram is a $400 option... ouch