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No idea what this actually means, if it means easier trade, I'm all for anything that reduces our dependency on the yanks, as long as we don't need to be involv

• peebee67 19d ago
  This is a sinking ship trying to lash unwitting tenders to it to try to keep it afloat while it rams an iceberg. Canada does not need that kind of trouble.
  • Rover222 19d ago
    Seriously. Not to mention that Alberta is trending towards independence (still unlikely, I know).
• dmos62 19d ago
  > as long as we don't need to be involved in their regulatory or legal regimes EU has such a bad name in these circles. As a EU citizen, I cherish these same regimes.
  • Autious 19d ago
    Yeah, I'm curious about which ones are a problem. I could see there being some incompatibility, and the details are more interesting than sweeping statements. Some regulations would have to be normalized and agreed upon between the countries for trade open up. Can't have different quality standards and ways of evaluating and declaring them.
    • nonethewiser 19d ago
      PPWR is an obvious one. Its such a dysfunctional law that they actually told people to ignore it.
      • mitxela 19d ago
        Programmers keep thinking law is if/then, it's not, it's a set of instructions to judges, which may contain obvious errors or conflict with other instructions, which is why we allow humans to interpret them instead of computers.
        • nonethewiser 18d ago
          Do you grant that there are poorly written laws? Are you defending PPWR? Not in spirit but actual implementation? It will never get so-far as the judge because the EU has already admitted the law cant be followed and arent going to be taking people to court over it. Regardless of the intent, it's an abject failure.
    • fidotron 19d ago
      Welcome to Canada where the regulations are in fact provincial. Canadian provinces have a harder time trading with each other than countries in the EU, although thanks to the sales tax and package transit changes the EU is becoming competitive in this area.
      • bryanlarsen 19d ago
        Provincial trade barriers basically only exist in two areas: liquor and labor licensing.
    • graemep 19d ago
      One I have actually dealt with was VATMOSS. Especially when first introduced it had very low ceilings for registration and actually deterred small businesses from trading across borders. I also think GDPR is too strict for small businesses and non-profits and not strict enough to deal with big businesses that trade data.
      • jeltz 19d ago
        Having health with VATMOSS too my experience is that it was trivial to implement. Maybe your country fucked up the rollout? Here in Sweden I had zero issues.
        • graemep 19d ago
          Its not the country, its the implementation cost for small businesses. In particular the ceiling for registration was so low that even micro-businesses with minimal cross border sales had to comply. Its would have been trivial for a big business, but it was not for small businesses.
      • fc417fc802 19d ago
        > too strict for small businesses and non-profits Maybe just calibrated poorly. Small enough and IMO the only important rule is no sharing with others. That should always be strictly enforced. But why worry about how some small timer handles my personal data or if I can make various requests of him? The stakes are too small to matter.
    • neom 19d ago
      ...Those cookie banner things for a start!! heh. ;) Mostly just wouldn't really work because Ottawa would have to somehow represent the provinces to the EU and the provinces and Ottawa don't work together in a way that would be compatible, I don't think anyone in Canada would want to change how Ottawa works with them. We may also end up in the same position again as we have with the Americans, nobody but us likes our supply management system[1]. GDPR is also something I think Canadians would struggle to get behind, our PIPEDA framework is quite good and I think most folks approve of it (except Quebec, who have their own framework). Taking the Euro would be a problem, etc etc, I think I could probably build quite a big list. btw, I respect the EU regulation, and that Europeans quite like it, I was just saying I don't think it would be practical for us to re-work the whole country to accommodate them, that's all. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dairy_and_poultry_supply_management_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dairy_and_poultry_supply_manag...
    • Jackpillar 19d ago
      You're on a tech-focused Silicon Valley based news forum. Most people here think if you're not carte blanche allowing your Ai companies unfettered hyperscale economy-threatening death spiral infrastructure investments for a nebulous end goal that benefits a small minority with undertones of civilizational collapse and mass unemployment then you're a over-regulatory nanny-state that is crushing innovation.
  • jorvi 19d ago
    Yup. Oh no, my meat isn't pumped full of hormones and vacuums aren't allowed to be hearing-damagingly loud. The horror.. Also re: OP, yes if you want to sell stuff in the EU, you will need to adhere to the same rules as EU companies.
    • ocd 19d ago
      I have such fatigue from listening to the rhetoric and whining from US farmers when enough of their goods are dangerous for consumers and illegal in Canada and the EU. It's all bad faith from the US trying to run over any market they don't control so they can weaponize control over food supply of another nation later.
      • SyneRyder 19d ago
        I don't mind countries setting their own rules for the food they want to consume, and for sure the EU can be overly bureaucratic. On the other hand, the US is the only country I've been to where I have purchased milk in a completely sealed plastic container, and it was rancid when I opened it. Upstate New York is proud of their local and organic produce, but they are selling rancid milk in stores like that's a normal thing. That was a shock as a visiting Australian.
        • next_xibalba 19d ago
          > purchased milk in a completely sealed plastic container, and it was rancid when I opened it I've lived in the U.S. for 40 years in 8 different states and twice as many cities. Never once have I experienced this.
    • wateralien 19d ago
      Oh no, my Haribos aren't full of artificial colours.
    • swiftcoder 19d ago
      I remember a delightful trip to Canada, where I ordered a hamburger, and they'd only let me have it well-done. I asked why, and the waitress says "The beef comes from the US", with a grimace...
  • Grombobulous 19d ago
    How dare the EU try to preserve competitive open markets. We can’t have capitalism in the leveragist serfdom economy!
  • lawn 19d ago
    As a Swede I have a bunch of grievances with the EU but when I look at the US I can't help but feel how lucky I am to live on this side of the pond.
    • graemep 19d ago
      I am British, pro-Brexit, and still prefer France to the US as a neighbour. I would have always said that - its not just Trump.
    • mcv 19d ago
      Exactly. The EU has plenty of faults, but I don't see anything better. Improving on the EU is better than abandoning it.
    • WarmWash 19d ago
      Keep in mind, social media and western online dialogue is extremely US centric. If every country was a house, the US is where everyone meets to party. So every spec of dust spawns endless content for everyone to dig into. Nevermind that people who have the most time to spend on social media, dictate the narratives that are popular. The reality is that the US better if you have money (like white collar salary man level) and (much) worse if you are an odds-and-ends gig economy type worker (like an influencer). From the vantage point of a ~75% income bracket home, moving to Europe is almost purely downsides (conventionally, some people give up everything for their dream to live in a cold dank cave), whereas being in a <50% income bracket home, Europe seems like a utopia.
      • dmos62 18d ago
        You can't make that generalization. What you describe will be different city to city, not to mention country to country. Further, privacy and safety regulations (which are EU-wide) will not be available in US, independent of income. Though that's city or state dependent too, I guess. It's just too hard to make these offhand comparisons, unless we make them more concrete. I agree about social media distorting things. When I visited US, I was surprised that it's not GTA-like violence everywhere, haha. I feel silly sharing that. But, the biggest surprise was how friendly and warm strangers were. Memes didn't hint at that at all.
• ajuc 19d ago
  > as long as we don't need to be involved in their regulatory or legal regimes The only reason the trade is easy in EU (and with it non-EU partners) is these regulations. Countries that choose to stay outside but wanted access to our market (like Norway, Switzerland, etc.) - had to accept the regulations. So I highly doubt you'll get your wish.
• FabCH 19d ago
  Carney was asking for freedom of movement of goods, people and services, but without full monetary and legislative integration. So, easier to sell stuff, easier to buy stuff, free to just travel to/from Canada/EU and work there with no extra paperwork, free to buy and sell service from Canada to EU and vice versa. No Euro, no vote in EU, no ECJ, no payments into each others budget. Tighter integration than UK, not as tight as Norway/Switzerland/Iceland. Common defense was already agreed anyhow. I can tell you this enjoys broad support in the EU public. Although, no joke, a lot of peoples first reaction is: "They need to compete in Eurovision first. Otherwise they should wait for Australia to join first."
  • n4r9 19d ago
    I loved seeing "Le Vent du Nord" at Cambridge Folk Festival 2023, they'd probably make a decent Eurovision entry.
  • post-it 19d ago
    Canada will be competing in Eurovision 2027 in May. :)
    • SyneRyder 19d ago
      Also, being a European Broadcasting Union (EBU) "Associate Member" is the name for the mechanism that allowed Australia, Canada and other countries to be admitted into Eurovision. If you've been around the ESC scene, you know there's a lot of embassy involvement (parties in embassies are a thing), the scene is catnip for those interested in politics, the politically active, and to some extent politicians. Eurovision is also one mechanism for discussions of economic development. Hosting the contest is usually an excuse for upgrades to public infrastructure. And there's Eurovision Asia starting in November. South Korea is an Associate Member of the EBU, for example. https://www.ebu.ch/news/2026/03/bangkok-to-host-first-ever-eurovision-song-contest-asia-in-2026 https://www.ebu.ch/news/2026/03/bangkok-to-host-first-ever-e...
      • fidotron 19d ago
        > If you've been around the ESC scene This is a euphemism on par with attending parties in parts of the SFO AI community.
• petcat 19d ago
  Hopefully Canada can just get the economic benefits and not end up having to be subject to the insane stuff like Chat Control
  • krzyk 19d ago
    There are way more benefits to being in EU than disadvantages.
    • Longhanks 19d ago
      Just a few days ago, Iceland disagreed.
      • krzyk 19d ago
        And that is the beauty of it, no one is forced. Benefits are more visible from the inside, and if you don't like it you can brexit. Unfortunately no one can be forced out also.
    • ifwinterco 19d ago
      This is only part of the question though, the other question is is it actually good for the EU to continue growing and becoming more heterogenous indefinitely, which to me isn't at all clear. You could make a good case that the EU is still trying to deal with issues from the 2004 expansion for example. Doesn't mean it was a bad idea, but it's not cost free
  • nickslaughter02 19d ago
    > Canada's Bill C-22 Would Force Encryption Backdoors > Signal, Windscribe, and NordVPN say they'll pull out of Canada before building surveillance infrastructure. The biggest threat to encrypted communications in a Western democracy since Australia's 2018 law. https://stateofsurveillance.org/news/canada-bill-c22-lawful-access-act-encryption-backdoor-signal-vpn-exit-2026/ https://stateofsurveillance.org/news/canada-bill-c22-lawful-...
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• lefra 19d ago
  If a company wants to sell in the EU, they should comply with EU rules. The market and the regulations are closely linked, you won't get one without the other.
• post-it 19d ago
  I hope it means we'll allow EU cars on our roads.
• graemep 19d ago
  "Nations have no permanent friends or enemies, only permanent interests."
• xattt 19d ago
  I am just hoping that I can finally get an EU-spec station wagon
• krzyk 19d ago
  It would be nice to have roam-like-at-home also.
• bborud 19d ago
  I think Canada might have an opportunity to help Europe at least reason a bit about regulations. For the most part I am thankful that the EU regulates things strictly. As long as I am the consumer of what is regulated and not the maker. Because while the regulation is well meaning, it is not always effective or efficient. And sometimes it achieves absolutely no positive results. And yet, I am generally for regulating a lot of things. For instance the cookie-popup-horseshit is failed regulation that came about mainly because regulators were squeamish about real solutions that would have required constant judgement calls. Instead of posing an existential risk to companies that run roughshod over our privacy, they created impotent regulation that is a dual failure: it protects exactly nobody and it wastes everyone's time multiple times over. Companies that do bad things should face existential risks. It is the only mechanism that works. Fines only work for small players. For large players it is surprisingly often a calculation where the numbers dictate you DO bad things because the downside risk is mostly quantifiable and financially acceptable. Yes, sanctioning companies guilty of egregious violations of privacy would have been noisy, but it would have been the right thing to do. And it would have been cheaper and more effective than what we have today.
• jrmg 19d ago
  A lot of replies confidently explaining ‘what this actually means’ in some detail despite the article saying things like: > [Canada would be] EU's first "associate member" > … > [Von der Leyen] did not give specific details on how any Canadian membership would work, but listed manufacturing, technology, AI, defence, energy, critical minerals and economic security as key areas for cooperation. > … > But "associate membership" of the EU does not currently exist and the process, if agreed, could take years. >
• lukasbm 19d ago
  You're in for a rough awakening if you think the EU is your friend
• cmrdporcupine 19d ago
  CETA (free trade) already exists with the EU. What is happening here is mostly symbolism and diplomacy. And maybe it will lead to the last hold out EU member states fully ratifying CETA (French farmers famously difficult). Many people (including Carney himself) are presenting this as a fundamental and recent pivot. But the opening moves of this happened a long time ago. CETA was negotiated by Chrystia Freeland and the now-often-maligned Trudeau gov't. (also Trudeau also had a honeymoon phase for the first two to three years of his term...)
  • momocowcow 19d ago
    It was initially an effort from the conservatives, not the liberals.
    • cmrdporcupine 19d ago
      Canada has Coke and Pepsi flavours of gov't. The differences between the two parties comes down to stupid culture wars stuff and perhaps emphasis on which sectors should dominate the economy, but they don't fundamentally differ. Carney just eviscerated all environmental laws and climate change initiatives -- which were already pathetically weak -- and cons back in my home province of Alberta are still apoplectic about how persecuted they are. It's all team sport theatre. Dangerously close to US style dysfunction. Translation: I don't care if it was Harper or Trudeau who "initiated" CETA.
• method_capital 19d ago
  I'm afraid you're mistaking our lunatic leader with "us". Understandable, but this step will be wholly unnecessary as soon as December when his power will be checked (largely). I lean right, more libertarian small government type, so you're not hearing this from a blowhard on the American left. His foreign policy, the way he's treated friends has been wanton and immensely damaging, and a whole lot of us want this corrected.
  • mitxela 19d ago
    The majority of US voters like the guy. He represents the country, like it or not. Most of his voters still agree with all the stuff he's doing, and the opposition seems intent on sabotaging themselves as much as possible so he will likely win again this year.
    • strictnein 19d ago
      The majority of US voters do not like the guy. 58.1% disapproval, 38.6% approval.
      • mitxela 19d ago
        The votes consistently tell a different story.
        • Wowfunhappy 19d ago
          Trump won the popular vote once, not consistently, against an understudy candidate who was pushed on stage at the last minute. Also, opinions have shifted since that time as people have noticed how unhinged Trump is.
          • deleted 19d ago
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        • strictnein 19d ago
          Voting for someone and liking someone aren't synonyms. You claimed one thing, now you're saying something else. In 2024, if the Dems just had a normal primary they would have won. But they consistently lied to people about what they were seeing with their own eyes (Biden's obvious lack of mental acuity), which people find really insulting, and then forced in a weak candidate. To clarify, since this is the Internet and people make lots of assumptions: I voted against Trump three times, plus I voted against him in my state's open GOP primary, which he lost.
• usrbinbash 19d ago
  Kinda like what Norway has, I'd imagine. Eased travel and trade, but not full membership voting rights, etc. So basically, an extensive trade and economics agreement, with options to intensify relationships later on. Good thing for both sides!
• teekert 19d ago
  Just want to chip in: I love you "yanks", not so much your politics and your imperialistic tendencies, but nearly all Americans I met were nothing but kind (coast to coast, left or right).
  • Rover222 19d ago
    This is a nice vibe. Appreciate you.
  • ttul 19d ago
    Every "yank" I know is also pretty great. The problem is a political system that has entrenched an advantage for a party that would otherwise be consistently in the minority, reducing the ability of the center to moderate policy. Canadians are right to be skeptical that the next presidency will be significantly better than the current one. A serious amount of goodwill has been burned and I think the average view up north is that it's time to build a very solid backup plan.
    • IAmBroom 19d ago
      It doesn't even fix things if the next POTUS is the exact opposite. The world has been shown what we are capable of doing. Any four-year stretch could be governed by a joke hired to "own the libs". Caligula's horse can't be elected solely because horses don't live past 35.
  • IAmBroom 19d ago
    Am Yank; feel the same about our politics and imperialism.
• bko 19d ago
  I was surprised to learn that Canada doesn't even have free trade across their own provenances. A big benefit of the United States is that it's essentially a very large free trade zone across 50 states. If Canada wanted to facilitate trade, I would imagine they would figure it out internally. So my guess is that this is just giving up some political autonomy for some unknown reason, maybe to stick it to the US?
  • bryanlarsen 19d ago
    The biggest trade barriers between Canadian provinces are labor licensing laws. The biggest trade barriers between American states are labor licensing laws. The second biggest trade barriers between Canada provinces are liquor regulations. The second biggest trade barriers between American states are likely car emission laws. Fairly comparable, IMO.
    • boringg 19d ago
      Not comparable at all. The US is one market unless you have a compelling reason to protect your state market. Canada is 10 separate markets with provincial agreements between them - all protecting themselves. Easiest example is Quebec. I.e. Opt in vs Opt out but more complicated.
      • bryanlarsen 19d ago
        The US is the opt-in system where the States regulate everything not specifically allocated to the federation and Canada is the opt-out system where the federal government regulates everything not specifically allocated to the provinces. Of course it's more complicated -- the US's inter-state commerce clause has been broadly interpreted by the courts.
    • chunky1994 19d ago
      The problem is the differences are asymmetric. Canadian labour mobility is a lot more impactful when the pool of skilled labour is just overall smaller. Doctors can move pretty much freely between 44 American states. Doctors can't do that in Canada, and here we need more specific kinds of doctors in rural populations and there is absolutely no reason to not have a harmonized licensing regime. We also have non-uniform regulation on stuff like the manufacture of construction goods (for example door sizing) which can cause a big drag in trade. This might be harder to fix but it exists and is not comparable to the US market.
• huijzer 19d ago
  > The Americans are no longer our friends We say as Europeans while interacting daily with USA engineers and other people here on HN - a site ran by Silicon Valley investors - while we usually talk about USA-made software. I personally do not hold every American accountable for the actions of their government.
  • NeutralCrane 19d ago
    I think this is speaking from the perspective of nations/governments rather than individual citizens. For what it’s worth, as an American, I agree with them. The USA is proving to be unreliable, if not outright malicious, to our long term allies.
  • david-gpu 19d ago
    On day-to-day interactions with my coworkers, I had no problem working with Americans. At the same time, a lot of them voted in favor of foreign policies that I very strongly disagree with. Both can be true at the same time, and the former doesn't make me forget the latter. Especially when their president continues to voice threats against the sovereignty of my country.
  • ericmay 19d ago
    Thanks - you are right and have the much more mature perspective. Many want to further drive a wedge between the US and Europe, presumably they live in Moscow and Beijing and Tehran.
• rsynnott 19d ago
  Easier trade, past a certain point, basically requires regulatory alignment.
• tedggh 19d ago
  The current regime is due 2028. For most of their history Canada and USA had cordial relations. This looks like a reactionary measure rather than a long term strategic one. Europe is in decline and facing political irrelevance, not the type of partner you want to have particularly if your border neighbor is one of the two current global super powers. It’s yet to see if the UE’s economic reforms will pay off, even of they do, is still decades away, with no cheap energy and having to invest in their own defense. You don’t want to hang out with the losers. Put your emotions aside, be patient with the current US government and get ready for post 2028.
  • newsclues 19d ago
    Canadians who expect America to suddenly be friendly towards Canada in 2028 are ignorant of history and reality.
    • tedggh 19d ago
      Yeah speaking of history. Let’s pretend that the US and Canada have never been in conflict before. We literally went to war, had multiple territorial disputes, plans of invasions, tariffs and trade wars, not to mention all the disagreements in foreign policy including Vietnam, Cuba and Iraq. None of this has prevented the two countries to have one of the most peaceful and cooperative relationships between two sovereign nations in modern history.
      • newsclues 18d ago
        Why would the next US administration expend political capital to roll back the damage done, instead of accepting it as the status quo and negotiating from there? I'm not saying there is no way that America and Canada can't repair the trade and diplomatic relations, just that Canadians shouldn't expect generosity and friendship.
  • epistasis 19d ago
    Why would a new "regime" affect this? Trust has been broken. The US has lost its shine and hard-earned reputation. Most of the trust was that a person like Trump would never have been elected in the first place. Can't unelect Trump. The damage has been done, and is ongoing.
• Someone 19d ago
  > No idea what this actually means Nobody knows; it’s all up for negotiation. FWIW, a (¿the?) previous time this term was floated, it involved (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential_re-accession_of_the_United_Kingdom_to_the_European_Union#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential_re-accession_of_the_...): “Also in September 2023, France and Germany proposed a restructuring of the membership of the EU to allow the UK to rejoin as an associate member, rather than a full member. Associate membership would include membership of the European single market but not the EU customs union, in exchange for participation in the European Court of Justice and making contributions to the EU budget.”
• throwawayq3423 19d ago
  I get that the trend is being accelerated with Donald Trump being an aggressive asshole for no reason, but Canadians pretending like they're anything but American is very weird.
• Bengalilol 19d ago
  > The Americans are no longer our friends, Salut, mes amis Européens. :) Salut ! I wouldn't say the Americans are no longer our friends, but trust is definitely gone.
• jmyeet 19d ago
  There are multiple levels of European integration [1]. Fun fact: Canada already borders the EU. There's an island called Saint Pierre and Miquelon, which is only ~12 miles from Newfoundland. These islands became a massive smuggling hub for alcohol during Prohibition. Here are some guiding principles of EU integration: 1. To have a say in EU rules generally requires being a full member. To some extent you can negotiate your entry into whatever level you desire but this has to be mutual agreement and can be difficult to change later without essentially threatening to leave; 2. Conditions generally need to be reciprocal. If you want freedom of movement in the EU then you have freedom of movement from other European states. This was a real sticking point in the Brexit negotiations and the EU doesn't play with reciprocal freedoms; and 3. Any sort of free trade with the EU will mean adopting EU regulations to be within the EU customs union. I don't see this flying with Canada because despite current trade hostilities with the US, the US is and will remain the primary trading partner of Canada. Adopting EU regulations might make US trade more difficult; Also, the US might have legitimate cause to object. If Canada and US have free trade and Canada and the EU has free trade then that's opting the US into EU regulation essentially. In some ways this is similar to the strained situation invented for Northern Ireland. Obviously, Canada won't be joining Schengen or the Euro. Canada already has visa-free travel to the EU. Canada still has a housing crisis and increased migration from the EU is likely a political non-starter even though those things aren't really related and literally nobody is going to tackle the true cause of the housing crisis (just like in every developed country). As an aside, the true cause is hoarding combined with tax advantages and a political goal of raising house prices. In short, I don't know that this means anything because I don't think anything can substantively change with the Canada-EU relationship. [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1qbq43v/european_integration_2026_a_comprehensive_venn/ https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1qbq43v/european_in...
• deleted 19d ago
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• nicechianti 19d ago
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• Aldipower 19d ago
  That means Angel Merkel for president, my friend! :-D Harharhar. Just kidding.
• Rover222 19d ago
  Do Canadians think "Yanks" is some sort of insult? I guess it's the white version of saying Gringo. Canada's economy is propped up by Alberta's energy production, which you my loose because they're so disgusted with the liberal politics. Anyway, good luck with revitalizing the economy by trading with a bloc of countries in economic decline.
  • tranceylc 19d ago
    Canadians are not using that as a real insult, no. “Child fucker” is an insult that is often used, however the USA does not consider that an insult.
  • jmye 19d ago
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• gxt 19d ago
  This message has been brought to you by the Minister of The Truth of the Government of Canada. /// Ce message a été émis par le Ministre de La Vérité du Gouvernement du Canada. Thank you for directing your hate at the specified target. /// Merci d'aiguiller votre haine à la cible sus mentionnée.