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Chrome removes claim of On-device Al not sending data to Google Servers
- avdelazeri 5mo agoAnd right after https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48019219 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48019219 huh
- baq 5mo agoTaken completely by surprise, no one could have predicted this /s
- askonomm 5mo agoI mean to be expected of Google. Even their Google Pay sends data to their servers whenever you use it to make payments, effectively also making it so you can't even use it without service. Apple Pay does not, runs the whole thing on-device, and not only is private, but as a result also enables payments entirely offline.
- gchamonlive 5mo agoMaybe it sends the payload after coming back online, but for I can for instance leave with only my galaxy watch 6, which doesn't have esim, and I'm able to make payments as long as I connect it with my phone before leaving the house.
- waterloser 5mo agoIf your phone doesn't have connection does it still work on your galaxy watch? Or if you leave the phone behind?
- iamjackg 5mo agoI think the comment's saying that they leave the phone at home, and the watch works by itself as long as it was connected to the phone before leaving the house.
- Hamuko 5mo agoGoogle Pay works for a limited amount of uses in offline mode. https://9to5google.com/2023/12/20/google-wallet-without-internet/ https://9to5google.com/2023/12/20/google-wallet-without-inte...
- jazzypants 5mo agoI'm willing to bet that it's just for telemetry, but this kind of stuff just lends credence to the crazies claiming Google wants to create some kind of absurd botnet with people's devices.
- fsckboy 5mo ago>Apple Pay does not, runs the whole thing on-device so when I use the physical card that is also on Apple Pay, and Apple Pay tells me I just made a transaction as if I had used Apple Pay, that is all happening on my device? what online service is my phone using to track my account with Visa or my credit card issuer, and it's polling or push?
- Hamuko 5mo agoYou get a notification from Apple Pay when you pay with your physical card? Because I only get a notification from my bank's app whenever I use my physical card. Apple Pay notifications only pop up when using Apple Pay itself.
- cyberax 5mo ago> You get a notification from Apple Pay when you pay with your physical card? I do. Which is sometimes annoying if somebody else is looking at my screen.
- newsoftheday 5mo agoWow...that seriously may change my long standing anti-Mac disdain to pro-Mac advocacy, very interesting, even Gemini confirmed what you're saying.
- _k2vp 5mo ago> Apple Pay does not, runs the whole thing on-device, and not only is private, but as a result also enables payments entirely offline. Apple Pay still does send a lot of telemetry about your payments though. https://duti.dev/randoms/wip-location-services/ https://duti.dev/randoms/wip-location-services/
- jcgrillo 5mo agoThey're probably doing some degenerate form of [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasitic_computing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasitic_computing
- headwayoldest 5mo agoAs soon as "don't be evil" became a topic for debate it was over, if you're surprised you haven't been paying attention.
- ChrisArchitect 5mo agoGoogle weighs in on Chrome's weights.bin controversy https://www.androidauthority.com/google-chrome-weights-bin-file-statement-3664379/ https://www.androidauthority.com/google-chrome-weights-bin-f...
- xbar 5mo ago4GB is not "lightweight" nor are local models.
- ChrisArchitect 5mo agoAl or AI?
- ulfw 5mo agoIt's Google. It's AIs
- greenavocado 5mo agoTemporary escape hatch: https://github.com/ungoogled-software/ungoogled-chromium https://github.com/ungoogled-software/ungoogled-chromium
- SunshineTheCat 5mo agoI know that I'm in a bit of a bubble with this one, but I am surprised there is still anyone using Chrome instead of Brave. I get the dependency on Gmail other Google-specific tools, but the built-in ad blocking and Google-free aspects of it made me switch instantly and haven't look back after years.
- Markoff 5mo agowhy would you use brave with annoying crypto and no customization over superior Vivaldi?
- tcp_handshaker 5mo agoWhy did I had to come so much down this thread, before seeing a mention of my favorite browser?
- dave78 5mo agoTo each their own, but I've been using Brave for a long time (5+ years I think?). It was one or 2 clicks to turn off the crypto stuff when I first installed it. It was straightforward and no dark patterns were employed. It has never come back, unlike what Google and Firefox tend to do with their annoying features. It even syncs my preferences to any new browser I add so I only had to do it on one computer once and never worry about it again. The web's dependency on Chromium engines is deeply concerning, I agree. I used Firefox for a long time. But at this point, IMO Brave is the most pragmatic choice if you want a browser that's not Google but "just works" with the modern web.
- Markoff 5mo agoVivaldi just works without annoying crypto and most importantly provides lot of customization, brave feels like barebone browser next to it, hard to understand why someone stays on such basic browser not allowing any customization (tried both and was shocked how bad is Brave many promote here).
- ifh-hn 5mo ago
- ScoobleDoodle 5mo agoFor someone with more knowledge than me: How does this affect other Chromium based browsers? I did some web searches and see Brave has its own AI thing “Leo” that is intended to preserve privacy. But I don’t think that is on device. Please correct me if I’m wrong. I use Firefox myself but have family and friends who use various Chromium based browsers. Thank you.
- pier25 5mo agoAlso, does this affect Chrome for iOS, Android, and iPadOS?
- sheept 5mo agoThe docs say "not yet."[0] My guess is that for Android they probably plan to enable it for high end phones, and for iOS they'll probably just stick to non-API AI features. [0]: https://developer.chrome.com/docs/ai/prompt-api#hardware-requirements https://developer.chrome.com/docs/ai/prompt-api#hardware-req...
- josefcub 5mo agoBrave's "Leo" AI is configurable enough to specify local endpoints for processing, instead of going wherever they want it to go. I've set it up to use my own systems, and it works just fine like that. If you have a beefy enough device, then yes this can be done on-device.
- sheept 5mo agoMy guess is that this falls under a Google service and the models themselves wouldn't be added to open source Chromium. Even if it were, Chromium forks would likely exclude it like they did for FLoC because of its unpopularity.
- scriptsmith 5mo agoChromium mostly does not support this, because it doesn't have the binary blob required to run the inference. However, it does still download the model weights and expose the LanguageModel API, because that part is hooked up. https://adsm.dev/posts/prompt-api/#which-browsers-support-the-api https://adsm.dev/posts/prompt-api/#which-browsers-support-th... Packagers might eventually disable that but I tested this behaviour in chromium 148 a few hours ago, and it would download the weights but has trouble running them.
- shevy-java 5mo agoWhat we learn: we can not trust Google.
- Zambyte 5mo agoEverything made by Google is a liability.
- TranquilMarmot 5mo agoYou're just now learning this? There are whole books about it (check out "The Age of Surveillance Capitalism" by Shoshana Zuboff)
- saintfire 5mo agoDoesn't look like that has been or will ever be (generally) learned.
- Fairburn 5mo agoUse anything BUT Chrome or Edge.
- stronglikedan 5mo agoI've tried them all but nothing so far beats the UX of Chrome.
- shlewis 5mo agoGenuinely curious what makes you say that. Haven't used Chrome for a really long time and not once I've missed it.
- arian_ 5mo ago"on-device" is doing a lot of heavy lifting when the device is a thin client to Google's servers wearing a trench coat.
- wafflemaker 5mo agoSince the thread evolved into browser comparisons, I'd like to endorse a better uBlock ('s fork) - AdNausem. It doesn't block ads. It clicks them first, and then blocks them. I don't want websites to loose revenue because of my adnlocker. I want them to make extra money because of it! I'm not affiliated, but would like the project to get more followers. This can stop ads once and for all.
- BrenBarn 5mo agoHow will it stop ads if it rewards them with money?
- stronglikedan 5mo agoIt rewards Google with the advertiser's money, and the advertisers don't like paying for extremely low conversion rates.
- tcp_handshaker 5mo agoYou question is the answer to your query
- dsr_ 5mo agoBecause it could eventually be detected as click-fraud, and ad networks hate paying out for click-fraud.
- wafflemaker 5mo agoIt makes them burn money with no effect. Doesn't work every time, but still sends a message.
- robhlt 5mo agoThese "clicks" are likely identified as fraudulent and dropped by the ad network. So you still pay the cost of downloading and running all the advertising JS and you still get tracked by the ad networks, all for nothing.
- 5mo ago
- footy 5mo agoI too am surprised anyone uses Chrome, but I will admit to feeling similarly surprised by how many people use Brave. The company seems so sketchy to me, and I wonder why people who presumably care about web standards are so willing to use Chromium-based anything too.
- CrzyLngPwd 5mo agoIt seems to me that adding AI to desktop apps and sending the data back to the mothership for processing is an amazing way to collect data from people who, for the most part, would be completely unaware it's even happening. Heck, most of them think the Internet is Chrome.
- rishabhaiover 5mo agoIt would be a reasonable deduction for someone who doesn't have the time or interest to understand the internals.
- ProllyInfamous 5mo agoThe even more frustrating thing here is that after auto-updates everything new [including AI "features"] is turned ON by default. I do like how Firefox now has a "prevent future AI integrations" checkbox[0], but I just don't believe it anymore (i.e. that it won't magically `uncheck` itself and then enable features I've not requested/authorized). Which is why I just used an LLM to help me create a local network admin rule to disable the update engine entirely (this SHOULD. NOT. BE. NECESSARY). [•] <https://www.perplexity.ai/search/b0d3bf5d-7ac7-4d4c-b6c6-32b39abc36be https://www.perplexity.ai/search/b0d3bf5d-7ac7-4d4c-b6c6-32b...> [0] with a sick darkpattern (for most users to laregly ignore)
- lpcvoid 5mo ago[dead]
- GeekyBear 5mo ago> adding AI to desktop apps and sending the data back to the mothership for processing is an amazing way to collect data from people Wasn't that the entire point of Windows Recall as well?
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- bigyabai 5mo ago
- akomtu 5mo agoIt's on-device AI spyware, really. It collects intelligence about the user, summarizes it and sends it to Google, all paid by the user's electricity bill. Deviously clever.
- squidsoup 5mo agoHas anyone found a browser with comparably good dev tools to Chrome?
- things 5mo agoYou could try Helium (https://helium.computer/ https://helium.computer/), it's a de-googled chrome and has the same devtools.
- squidsoup 5mo agonice, thank you
- nicce 5mo agoWhat makes then so good? I always try them and then go back to Firefox.
- fragmede 5mo agoReplay.io has a browser that does time travel debugging, which is really really neat.
- Animats 5mo agoWhen Google did that, did they default the "sending data" feature to off? Do I even need to ask?
- ubermonkey 5mo agoI still don't understand why so many people have accepting using an ad company's browser. The motivation vectors exist here to ensure that, over time, Chrome behaves in ways the end user DOES NOT WANT.
- RegW 5mo agoBecause they don't know (that they are an ad company (and they don't know what the implication is)).
- cferry 5mo agoMy belief is that the AI business is all about data collection. The value isn't so much in the quality of the models (that's what enterprise customers and developers pay to get), but in the amount of data that comes "for free" to whoever hosts the models. And then it's worth whoever buys it thinks it is, like insurers or advertisers.
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 5mo ago"My belief is the AI business is all about data collection." The "business" of so-called "tech" companies is all about data collection https://www.economist.com/leaders/2017/05/06/the-worlds-most-valuable-resource-is-no-longer-oil-but-data https://www.economist.com/leaders/2017/05/06/the-worlds-most...
- wil421 5mo agoIt’s because they’re all in bed with the Government who wants the same thing. Think of them as an extension of the NSA/CIA and the byproduct of the data collection is being able to sell Ads to make money.
- protocolture 5mo agoIf thats the case why dont they just pay me for it directly.
- samplifier 5mo agoBecause the concepts of freedom and security are not universal.
- Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe 5mo agoMy guess: people would ask way more for that kind of information. That's why it's a totally immoral business: making people give away something they would never agree to give for free, if they were truly aware of it.
- ndiddy 5mo agoYeah I was wondering how long it would take for a browser company to do something like this. It lets them scrape data without having to deal with anti-scraping provisions on websites, since now their training data collection gets spread across the entire Chrome userbase and they're able to offload the work of bypassing the Cloudflare captchas or whatever to their end users.
- forgotusername6 5mo agoSurely there's a googler on here who actually knows whether they are doing this. Anyone actually know or is this post all about Chrome bashing and speculation?
- suprjami 5mo agoCertainly. You think they're going to comment? That itself would be another headline article.
- kevcampb 5mo agoThis seems somewhat specious - it's also quite possible that they just altered the wording to make it less verbose. Does anyone have access to the link "Learn more about on-device AI"? If Chrome starts sending data from the browser back to Google, that's going to be a huge compliance issue. If you work for a company that processes customer data in the browser, you're going to need to ban Chrome.
- xbar 5mo agoGood idea.
- LtWorf 5mo agoChrome has been doing that since the beginning.
- decimalenough 5mo agoChrome has been recording metadata (URLs, timestamps, etc) about your activity since forever, and you can turn this off if you like, see https://myactivity.google.com/myactivity https://myactivity.google.com/myactivity. They don't record data (POSTs etc).
- twelvedogs 5mo agoit already sends data back to google, the ai stuff, everything that goes in the address bar goes straight to google unless you specifically configure chrome to block it the on-device ai just offloads some work onto your device i doubt anyone will be banning chrome, for some reason "it's for ai" is a valid excuse for any amount of sillyness
- cbeach 5mo agoAs soon as data starts being exfiltrated to Google (or any Big Tech firm), be sure that governments will demand their copy of the stream too. The non-disclosure clauses in mass surveillance legislation will ensure the process is opaque to users. You’ll only find out about it when your door is smashed down and all your devices are seized, because Chrome’s crappy 4GB AI model misinterpreted an innocent photo of your kid in a paddling pool.
- aucisson_masque 5mo agoJust today Google launched it's health app on Android and promised to not use people's data to sell them ads. I called that bullshit, guess this article is just proving my point.
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- oldfuture 5mo agoas if they didn’t have enough data already, good choice to lose any remaining trust from the public over this
- foota 5mo agoI wonder if this is in response to the chrome incognito lawsuit.
- varispeed 5mo agoSurely this would be illegal? Personal data without consent? Or is it a case of too big too fail. Seems like running governments' infrastructure pays off. No regulator will dare to impose a fine that could collapse the company. But this is very much needed. £100bn fine and confiscation of assets in the given country could be a start.
- orthecreedence 5mo ago> Surely this would be illegal? Personal data without consent? I'm not trying to be mean here, but have you been frozen in ice for the last 20 years? This is effectively the tech industry's raison d'etre.
- Danox 5mo agoGoogle and Meta always phone home….
- makeramen 5mo agoGemini is also the only major provider where you can't opt out of using your data for training without disabling chat history.
- martin-t 5mo agoWhy are they so hungry for data? If it's so intelligent, why does it need to learn by imitation so much? It feels almost like "AI" can't be built without trillions of hours of human work, yet the ownership of the models and the resulting revenue goes only to those in positions of power to exploit that labor instead of the people doing actual work.
- popcorncowboy 5mo agoThis "just keep leaning into the outrage machine" is a terrifyingly effective strategy. I realize lobbying groups have had the "we only need to slip past once" strategy forever, but it feels to me like there's a new level of bare-faced autocratic, anti-social-contract power grab going on in a way that wasn't around 20 years ago. You see it in our political class. Egregious thing? Nah, try this? Oh you're whining now? Here's some more. Look over here. What about this? Moar gnashing! And now this. Oh you don't like it? Clearly you hate children and freedom and family because this is all and only about protecting the children and saving everyone from rapists, Russians and whatever else the zeitgeist is afraid of.
- DeathArrow 5mo agoGoogle is a disease. We should stop spreading it.
- userbinator 5mo agoNot surprising at all. Google went full evil long ago and unless people realise quickly what direction they're going, it will get much worse. "I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."
- nolok 5mo agoI mean, you're not paying for it, you've always been the product. They didn't alter the deal, you just stopped being as naive.
- darepublic 5mo agoWould ad blockers stop this traffic from being sent