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Apple is very tied to Chinese manufacturing in a way that is hard to replicate in US. They will agree to make some high margin simple to assemble thing in the

Apple is very tied to Chinese manufacturing in a way that is hard to replicate in US. They will agree to make some high margin simple to assemble thing in the US to appease government, but if it goes as well as last time, they will stop as soon as they can. In china they were often able to iterate on designs and have custom screws and other parts made and ramped up in very short times. Something about having the whole supply chain in one place and very motivated and it all fell apart when tried to move to US. So things that took weeks became hard on anytime line.. per Apple in China book.

pbreit 7mo ago
I think this could stick. The supply chain competence needs to get built in the USA.
- WillAdams 7mo ago
  Didn't work out well when Malco tried to keep Vice Grip production here in the States: https://toolguyd.com/malco-eagle-grip-locking-pliers-final-update/ https://toolguyd.com/malco-eagle-grip-locking-pliers-final-u...
  - pbreit 7mo ago
    I would say Malco is not Apple and I have no idea what a vice grip is.
vondur 7mo ago
I doubt the MacMini is a high margin product for Apple. I'd agree it's probably one of the more simpler items to build in their product line.
- yreg 7mo ago
  Yeah not high margin but rather low volume.
NetMageSCW 7mo ago
The press release says they’ve been making their own servers there successfully so it doesn’t seem like there is a reason they would stop Mini manufacturing quickly.
- modeless 7mo ago
  They did the exact same thing with Mac Pro in 2019. I notice they don't say they'll stop manufacturing the Mac Mini anywhere else. This is a political thing and will change with the political winds.
- nutjob2 7mo ago
  Two different things. They do not have margin to preserve on the servers. If I was interested in "performative local manufacturing" I'd also build my own servers, it has the least economic impact.
vsgherzi 7mo ago
Just as manufacturing in China took time manufacturing in the US will take time. The US has lost much of its skilled labor and mom and pop parts shop. If we have any hope of re-invigorating this some large company is going to have to bite the bullet. Chicken and egg problem imo. I'll leave whether this is worth it or not up to the economists.
- tencentshill 7mo ago
  It needs a careful long term approach from real leaders. Not a run-and-gun, corrupt, chaotic president throwing tariffs (taxes) up on a whim.
  - ljsprague 7mo ago
    [flagged]
    - OsrsNeedsf2P 7mo ago
      Was Kamala campaigning on bringing manufacturing to Texas?
      - dropofwill 7mo ago
        Probably referring to the CHIPs Act? Technically Biden. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHIPS_and_Science_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHIPS_and_Science_Act
        lastdong 7mo ago
        Technically Kamala. — As Vice President, Kamala Harris was a key proponent and promoter of the 2022 CHIPS and Science Act, which aims to boost U.S. semiconductor manufacturing.
        deleted 7mo ago
        [deleted]
apercu 7mo ago
Jebus. “It’s hard to manufacture in the US.” Yes. That’s what rebuilding capability looks like. China built dense supply chains over decades. Of course iteration was faster. Hard isn’t a reason not to do it. It’s what happens when you’ve optimized for margin and optics and performance instead of resilience.
- nutjob2 7mo ago
  No, it's local manufacturing theater. The US does a lot of manufacturing, second only to China, but not low margin stuff that isn't economic. Trying to "bring back" that sort of thing is idiotic and is entirely performative and induced by the current incompetent administration. China is a genuine threat but the right solution is to move it to other friendlier countries instead of losing money trying to do it in the US. Stupid is a reason not to do it.
  - deaddodo 7mo ago
    This is the part that blows my mind. People seem to think the US is incapable of and does no manufacturing. It is the second largest manufacturer[1], and has a capacity about 65% of what China does. Which is 350% of the next largest manufacturing country. What they stopped manufacturing was menial and low-end product; because it's not price-effective to have 100 Americans sit on an assembly line and solder SMT components for $7-18/hr. Instead, those potential workers pivoted into service jobs and office work. 1 - https://www.safeguardglobal.com/resources/blog/top-10-manufacturing-countries-in-the-world/ https://www.safeguardglobal.com/resources/blog/top-10-manufa...
    - apercu 7mo ago
      Fair, but there is tons of HIGH END manufacturing we could do that we just don't, even though there is every incentive to do so.
      - deaddodo 7mo ago
        The US does 65% of China's manufacturing capacity at 25% their population. They are doing fine.
tokyobreakfast 7mo ago
[flagged]
- embedding-shape 7mo ago
  > Unless of course you need aerospace or space-qualified screws Ok... Is that what they're using to build Mac Minis and is that what they need to iterate on typically?
  - tokyobreakfast 7mo ago
    [flagged]
    - tredre3 7mo ago
      And America isn't the only source of the world's aerospace or space-qualified screws, so what was the point of your comment? China is fully capable of producing high quality screws.
    - bigbuppo 7mo ago
      The best thing about manufacturing in China is that they will make exactly what you specify. The worst thing about manufacturing in China is that they will make exactly what you specify.
      - cobalt 7mo ago
        no, they will often shortcut when they can get away with it. Companies like Apple just don't let them get away with it
    - Bud 7mo ago
      [dead]
    - n8cpdx 7mo ago
      Are iPhones known for quality issues stemming from low quality parts?
onlyrealcuzzo 7mo ago
You could prototype assembly in China, then have everything ready to go, and do mass assembly elsewhere.
xuki 7mo ago
Mac mini is a relatively low volume product for Apple, the margin hit would not be consequential to their bottom line. I'll believe it when they start making iPhone in the US.
0xWTF 7mo ago
Came here with a similar comment, pasting here to avoid another top-level comment tree. ==== I bought a mac mini a year ago for $599. Personally, I'm pretty sure I would pay another $50 if it said "Made in the USA" on it. Maybe $80. Not sure I would pay $100. But I worry this will prove to be like when Daimler bought Chrysler and shipped the Crossfire fully assembled except the rims, which were bolted on in the US so they could say it was "made in the USA". They only sold 76,014 and now Daimler extracted itself from Chrysler, so maintaining them has become a bespoke hobby.
- dangus 7mo ago
  The conversion rate is actually 0%. Nobody will pay more for a USA version. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43787647 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43787647
  - hn_acc1 7mo ago
    Well, um.. Forgive me for not being in the market for a showerhead in the last few years and / or not knowing about this one company that I didn't see at Home Depot/Lowes when I did buy a couple of them? I admit I'm probably an outlier, but in terms of durable goods, I'd pay 30-50% more for lots of things if they were "made in the USA" or "made in Canada" (any western country) and it meant something - like, better parts availability, repairability, documentation, support, etc. Not all of them, but something - AND, it was paying domestic imports / reducing imports. I'm not living paycheck to paycheck, but I'm not wealthy.
    - logotype 7mo ago
      You’re not alone. I’m a self-funded startup founder and I still buy Made in USA goods (clothes, appliances, tools, supplies, equipment, etc). For me the price isn’t the main factor, it’s simply that I want to support the countries I like. Been doing this for 10 years now. Based in London so I also buy Made in England things too. Never ever support authoritarian regimes!
      - 7mo ago
GeekyBear 7mo ago
> Apple is very tied to Chinese manufacturing Apple (and all the other multinationals) are tied to manufacturing in nations with cheap labor. China is far from the only nation with cheap labor. > India now accounts for approximately 25 percent of global iPhone production, up from single digits just a few years ago. https://manufacturing-today.com/news/apple-moves-quarter-of-iphone-production-to-india-as-exports-surge/ https://manufacturing-today.com/news/apple-moves-quarter-of-...
ruraljuror 7mo ago
Good point about the supply chain; and it seems like most responses mistakenly disagree with you. Thomas Friedman talks about this after his most recent visit to China. Where China excels is through rapid supply chain development by fierce regional competition among several (state-supported/sponsored/seeded?) competitors.
- dangus 7mo ago
  I get fatigue when everyone claims that all these Chinese businesses are state sponsored. Do we not recognize that western governments do this too? Do we not recognize that western banks and VC firms are quasi-state institutions? Do we not see western countries continually subsidize businesses by lowering corporate tax rates and giving out cheap loans? The US government was giving out $7500 per car to buy EVs and the US carmakers still got demolished by better Chinese products. It’s like the western zeitgeist can’t accept that China is simply out-competing them on pure merit. It’s not possible for China to have every business be state-subsidized and running a loss. At some point the truth is that China is getting wealthy by selling the most competitive goods. It doesn’t matter that the state “subsidizes” it because the money for the subsidy comes from selling the best and most competitive products.
  - ruraljuror 7mo ago
    Sorry to cause fatigue. The US government absolutely does not do what China does in this case. But the reason for my paranthesis and question mark was that I was not sure what call it.
  - hn_acc1 7mo ago
    China is not state-subsidized / running at a loss on materials so much (although they probably get cheaper rare earth minerals) - they're running at a loss on wages. There's no "loss" there - the state doesn't have to buy labor and sell it to the companies to put into the product at a loss - the companies simply pay less overall in terms of labor, because that's the prevailing rate. Even if you paid 5% more for materials for an iphone but could pay 50% less for labor than China, you could probably beat China. How does the state sponsoring come in? The state represses the people and the wages and prevents them from leaving for greener pastures in many cases, which benefits the corporations.
xmcp123 7mo ago
They won’t just have custom screws, they will sort them by incredibly small amounts of manufacturing error and make those correspond with devices that have similar amounts of manufacturing error, so it matches(like a slightly too large screw going with a slightly too large hole). On production lines. Obviously this is not plan A, but their ops team is insane.
- Terr_ 7mo ago
  > sort them by incredibly small amounts of manufacturing error and make those correspond with devices that have similar amounts of manufacturing error I spent a little while unsuccessfuly trying to recall the jargon or the anecdotal company-name here, but IIRC there was an early pioneer in this where a company making radios (?) tried to develop a software system that would categorize non-conforming parts so that the flaws in different pieces would cancel out. I don't think it worked for them, at the time it was far more efficient to just spend money on improving the quality and tolerances of the parts.
chvid 7mo ago
They are also very tied to Chinese demand with about 1/5 of their total business coming from China.
Aurornis 7mo ago
> In china they were often able to iterate on designs and have custom screws and other parts made and ramped up in very short times. This becomes less of a problem as the product matures. The Mac Mini is a good example of a design they likely stabilized a while ago.
- cobalt 7mo ago
  even if the form factor looks similar, the production will change overtime, esp the internals
a-dub 7mo ago
it's probably a good thing to have domestic advanced manufacturing if only to have real-world testbeds for development of advanced automation technology. it's cool and all that boston dynamics can do what they do, but i wonder if one reason why the chinese robotics industry is so advanced is because they've been able to test in production on real production lines, experiment with dark factories and learn a ton in the process. it's kind of funny when you think about it. both the west and east are facing down the same set of potential problems that come with real automation of industries that have served as true economic dynamos for decades.
- dlenski 7mo ago
  > it's probably a good thing to have domestic advanced manufacturing if only to have real-world testbeds for development of advanced automation technology. Yes, it's a good thing to have domestic advanced manufacturing, but this probably doesn't qualify. According to the article, it's a site where they already assemble servers for Apple's own use, and will now start assembling Mac Minis as well. Electronics assembly is, for the most part, a pretty low-value part of the supply chain. It's not nothing, but it pales in comparison to the scientific and technological sophistication and financial value of wafer fabs and IC test and packaging facilities. (I worked at Intel's flagship fabs in Oregon, and have worked as a consultant with other semi fabs around the world.)
dlenski 7mo ago
> They will agree to make some high margin simple to assemble thing in the US to appease government They'll also hold a ribbon-cutting ceremony with maximum fanfare, at which they'll be sure to fawn over Donald Trump, let him ramble at length, and maybe give him some sort of shiny award. Let's call it The Steve Jobs American Technology Greatness Prize. It'll be a blindingly flashy PVD-gold-plated 12" silicon wafer with a Mount Rushmore-style portrait of Jobs and Trump etched into it.
Romario77 7mo ago
if you look at Mac Mini design, it didn't change much in many years (2011-2024 is practically the same) https://preview.redd.it/always-loved-the-design-of-the-mac-minis-which-one-do-you-v0-0uqdbloumsce1.jpeg https://preview.redd.it/always-loved-the-design-of-the-mac-m... so maybe that's the reason they chose it. They just designed a new iteration in 2024, so maybe they don't expect much change for a while.
- ccgreg 7mo ago
  The guts on the inside changed several times during that timespan.
ryandrake 7mo ago
> Something about having the whole supply chain in one place I can't find the source but I thought I read somewhere that the major manufacturing cities in China are all geographically laid out like giant assembly lines. The companies that process the raw materials are located mostly inland, then the companies that form those raw materials into metal and plastic stock are next door, and then the companies that take that stock and make components are next door to them, and the companies that input those components and output subassemblies are next door to them, and so on all the way down to the harbor where the companies that produce finished products output directly onto the loading docks where the ships await. The US can't even zone a residential neighborhood without lawyers and special interests jamming things up for decades through endless impact studies and litigation. How is it going to compete with a country that can lay out entire cities, organizing the value chain geographically towards the ocean?
- SaltyBackendGuy 7mo ago
  This reminds me of a great freakonomics podcast that talked about China being run by engineers and America being run by lawyers. https://freakonomics.com/podcast/china-is-run-by-engineers-america-is-run-by-lawyers/ https://freakonomics.com/podcast/china-is-run-by-engineers-a...
  - Avicebron 7mo ago
    Authoritarian central planning isn't an inherent trait of engineers and nor should we aspire for it to be.
    - mlsu 7mo ago
      Have you met an engineer? I'd say "being an engineer" is probably the single most predictive trait for authoritarianism in my experience.
      - lkbm 7mo ago
        Possibly, but it's just as much a predictive trait of being libertarian, which for all its faults, is extremely anti-authoritarian.
827a 7mo ago
And, to be clear about one thing (which I believe is also raised in the book): Much of this is the direct result of Apple investing literally a quarter trillion dollars and exporting critical western IP toward developing Chinese advanced manufacturing capability (among other American technology companies). The story of startups only being able to manufacture in China is a cute tale that is true for startups. For Apple, investing in the strategic capabilities of America's geopolitical rivals was an active decision Tim Cook and other Apple leaders made.
- kccqzy 7mo ago
  A company like Apple has very little incentive to care about geopolitics, other than by current or future government laws and regulations (a government mandate, tariffs, etc). In the absence of government intervention, Apple has determined that investing a quarter trillion dollars is the cheap choice; getting the same result in the United States would probably need much much more than a quarter trillion dollars worth of investment. If the United States thought that such investments by Apple would have undesirable geopolitical implications, Congress should have acted a long time ago.
  - 827a 7mo ago
    Your learned helplessness is defeatist and boring. We need not be Moloch's subjects; Apple's business priorities are not the result of some natural and unstoppable force, and their leadership is not exempt from responsibility because of your belief that it is. Someone, sometime, in a surprisingly boring room, wearing a surprisingly boring suit, made decisions like those which opened a factory in China instead of Texas.
    - kccqzy 7mo ago
      I do not have learned helplessness. Nor have I claimed Apple’s business practices are the result of a natural force. Nothing is natural here. I said that Congress could have acted. Is Congress part of the nature now? In contrast you have provided no arguments for why Apple’s leadership bears responsibility rather than Congress.
bmurphy1976 7mo ago
The term for China's manufacturing advantage is agglomeration. The US is never going to be successful with these manufacturing initiatives until the US government gets its act together and starts rebuilding all the infrastructure that has been destroyed over the last 50 years. That requires more than just tariffs. It requires actual investment. Investment in infrastructure, people education, power, everything. It's actually why silicon valley is so successful because it is an agglomeration of the tech industry. We need the same for manufacturing if we ever expect to do it again.
- deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]
- shiroiuma 7mo ago
  >Investment in infrastructure, people education, power, everything. This isn't going to happen. The US government these days does not care about investment in things like infrastructure or education.
chrsw 7mo ago
Well put. I tried to explain this to someone years ago after they asked a question like "why don't they just build a factory here?". I was like "you need more than _a_ factory, you need a whole ecosystem of manufacturing". I guess I didn't make my argument clear enough based on their response. I think the USA has been very clear based on our actions over the past 4 or so decades: we don't want this kind of labor in this country. I don't see any material changes despite the recent puff pieces and political grandstanding.
- msabalau 7mo ago
  It is really unclear why you think that either the political interest or strategic logic of not wanting to rely on manufacturing in China, and having some on the value being created here goes away, or is some idle whim. Sure, if it took decades of slow patient effort to create the current situation, it might take decades to unwind it. And, sure, the US political system is exceptionally bad at industrial policy. But, at the end of the day, the political and military logic is, and will be for the forseeable future, get your supply chains out of China. Just because it is slow and difficult doesn't there is any reason to believe the pressure will relax. (Putting aside the possibility of an AGI/robotics revolution)
  - chrsw 7mo ago
    I understand the logic of getting out of China, and the reasoning is sound. However, cost is the bigger issue. Are you willing to pay more for your computers and electronics? Is your neighbor? Is your company? Are your investors? The pressure to reverse this disaster will always be there but material change isn't realistic. We have neither the capacity nor a strong enough inclination to built out an industrial base anywhere near what China can do. I understand China is supplying the whole world and we'd only need to supply ourselves to achieve security, but that also makes the cost problem even worse. Chips will come from Taiwan and everything else will come from China for the foreseeable future unless like you said there's a major disruption from somewhere. Without that, I only see one pathway everyone can stomach: continue growing the economy, which includes leveraging China's industrial and labor base, and hope any political differences with China can be mitigated diplomatically.
typ 7mo ago
American business leaders have (had?) an obsession with gross margin and tech "advancedness." They thought they would be the winner as long as they occupied the high-tech sectors in the supply chain. So they discarded the high-volume, low-margin, low-growth, low-tech businesses like assembly lines and outsourced them. But the reality is that the proximity of the assembly lines creates a cost advantage that attracts more upstream suppliers to surround it. Even Intel was seeking to build more fabs in China before being stopped by the US government.
yalogin 7mo ago
They did and stopped previously? Interesting, can you please give more details?
vablings 7mo ago
The Mac Pro is already made in the USA and has been for a long long time, at this same facility the apple server is also made.
- asimovDev 7mo ago
  to be fair it's not clear if Mac Pro will continue to exist, it's been in a limbo for a while. When I saw this post on the front page my first thought was "oh, this is how they solve the 'We need to have a product assembled in the US but we only have Mac Pro that we do not want anymore'"
bbshfishe 7mo ago
Chinese manufacturing? It’s not made in China. It’s assembled.
burningChrome 7mo ago
>> Something about having the whole supply chain in one place and very motivated. This is the legacy of Tim Cook before Jobs passed. He was the guy who put immense pressure on Chinese factories to deliver on the insane quotas and timeframes he forced on them. He essentially blackmailed companies in order for them to his bidding - threatening to go to competitors if they didn't deliver exactly what he wanted. The stuff Apple got away with in China could never be repeated here. I mean, you think you can regularly push so many workers to commit suicide, you have to put nets around the buildings in order to dissuade them from jumping off buildings? Yeah, not happening here. Which is why Apple does business there. Its why Tim Cook was able to abuse Chinese labor laws to get them to deliver the impossible, time and again, regardless of the human cost.
- ribosometronome 7mo ago
  Not happening here? Foxconn's per capita rate during the peak of their suicide cluster was like 1.4-1.8 per 100k, America as a whole averages closer to 12-15 per 100k.
  - embedding-shape 7mo ago
    So America the country is more likely to lead people to suicide than Foxconn the company? I'm not sure that's making the point you wanted it to make.
leokennis 7mo ago
> They will agree to make some high margin simple to assemble thing in the US to appease government I chuckled out loud at the huge-ass-safety-hazard-in-any-manufacturing-environment US flag thumb tacked to the factory wall. It's all wafer thin gold leaf to appease the toddler in command. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/images/2026/02/apple-accelerates-us-manufacturing-with-mac-mini-production/article/Apple-US-manufacturing-investment-Houston-Advanced-Manufacturing-Center-01_big.jpg.large_2x.jpg https://www.apple.com/newsroom/images/2026/02/apple-accelera...
Neil44 7mo ago
A bit like the automotive CKD kits, to comply with trade rules in the most efficient way possible.
tedd4u 7mo ago
'Q:What does China's competitive edge look like in practice?' 'A: One example from The Times article: When Jobs decided just a month before the iPhone hit markets to replace a scratch-prone plastic screen with a glass one, a Foxconn factory in China woke up about 8,000 workers when the glass screens arrived at midnight, and the workers were assembling 10,000 iPhones a day within 96 hours. 'Another example: Apple had originally estimated that it would take nine months to hire the 8,700 qualified industrial engineers needed to oversee production of the iPhone; in China, it took 15 days. Anecdotes like that leave you "feeling almost impressed by the no-holds-barred capabilities of these manufacturing plants," says Edward Moyer at CNET News, "impressed and queasy at the same time."' From: https://theweek.com/articles/478705/why-apple-builds-iphones-everything-else-china https://theweek.com/articles/478705/why-apple-builds-iphones...
- midnighthollowc 7mo ago
  That's pretty amazing, honestly. Here I can't even get a tradesperson to give me a quote, much less show up on a dime. I guess I need another eight billion dollars, give or take a penny
  - kakacik 7mo ago
    Project this a decade or two into future and I honestly don't have a solution for the west but a gradual decline into mediocrity. We have less corruption and communicate directly also about problems, so at least that will work for us for some time too. But maybe China and similar places will elevate their overall prosperity enough that people will refuse to be treated like this en masse, so there is some hope.
    - audunw 7mo ago
      These anecdotes come from the very peak of Chinas demographic dividend. In a decade or two their demographic dividend will be in a steep decline. China also needs to change something drastic to avoid brain drain. The migration of competent people is still one-way. There no path to become a Chinese citizen. China has come a long way, but Europe is still ahead on building liveable communities and wok/life balance, while the US is still attractive to those seeking freedom and prosperity. China has avoided issues due to a huge population and that demographic dividend. But eventually it’ll become an issue
brightball 7mo ago
Yep. Stories like that are the strongest case to protect US on shore manufacturing. All of the knowledge, skill talent and associated supply chains naturally colocate.
midnitewarrior 7mo ago
The manufacturing facility they are committing to is 8-12x the size of the average American home at 20,000 sq. feet. This is a token operation meant to project the idea that manufacturing is coming back to the United States. This is appeasement by Tim Apple.
lenerdenator 7mo ago
At a certain point, if you want the people of your own country to have any sort of loyalty or deference for you, then you'll need to have loyalty or deference for them. "But it's cheaper in our main geopolitical rival" doesn't quite wear like it used to.
black_13 7mo ago
[dead]

pbreit 7mo ago

I think this could stick. The supply chain competence needs to get built in the USA.

WillAdams 7mo ago
Didn't work out well when Malco tried to keep Vice Grip production here in the States: https://toolguyd.com/malco-eagle-grip-locking-pliers-final-update/ https://toolguyd.com/malco-eagle-grip-locking-pliers-final-u...
- pbreit 7mo ago
  I would say Malco is not Apple and I have no idea what a vice grip is.

vondur 7mo ago

I doubt the MacMini is a high margin product for Apple. I'd agree it's probably one of the more simpler items to build in their product line.

yreg 7mo ago
Yeah not high margin but rather low volume.

NetMageSCW 7mo ago

The press release says they’ve been making their own servers there successfully so it doesn’t seem like there is a reason they would stop Mini manufacturing quickly.

modeless 7mo ago
They did the exact same thing with Mac Pro in 2019. I notice they don't say they'll stop manufacturing the Mac Mini anywhere else. This is a political thing and will change with the political winds.
nutjob2 7mo ago
Two different things. They do not have margin to preserve on the servers. If I was interested in "performative local manufacturing" I'd also build my own servers, it has the least economic impact.

vsgherzi 7mo ago

Just as manufacturing in China took time manufacturing in the US will take time. The US has lost much of its skilled labor and mom and pop parts shop. If we have any hope of re-invigorating this some large company is going to have to bite the bullet. Chicken and egg problem imo. I'll leave whether this is worth it or not up to the economists.

tencentshill 7mo ago
It needs a careful long term approach from real leaders. Not a run-and-gun, corrupt, chaotic president throwing tariffs (taxes) up on a whim.
- ljsprague 7mo ago
  [flagged]
  - OsrsNeedsf2P 7mo ago
    Was Kamala campaigning on bringing manufacturing to Texas?
    - dropofwill 7mo ago
      Probably referring to the CHIPs Act? Technically Biden. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHIPS_and_Science_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHIPS_and_Science_Act
      - lastdong 7mo ago
        Technically Kamala. — As Vice President, Kamala Harris was a key proponent and promoter of the 2022 CHIPS and Science Act, which aims to boost U.S. semiconductor manufacturing.
        deleted 7mo ago
        [deleted]

apercu 7mo ago

Jebus. “It’s hard to manufacture in the US.” Yes. That’s what rebuilding capability looks like. China built dense supply chains over decades. Of course iteration was faster. Hard isn’t a reason not to do it. It’s what happens when you’ve optimized for margin and optics and performance instead of resilience.

nutjob2 7mo ago
No, it's local manufacturing theater. The US does a lot of manufacturing, second only to China, but not low margin stuff that isn't economic. Trying to "bring back" that sort of thing is idiotic and is entirely performative and induced by the current incompetent administration. China is a genuine threat but the right solution is to move it to other friendlier countries instead of losing money trying to do it in the US. Stupid is a reason not to do it.
- deaddodo 7mo ago
  This is the part that blows my mind. People seem to think the US is incapable of and does no manufacturing. It is the second largest manufacturer[1], and has a capacity about 65% of what China does. Which is 350% of the next largest manufacturing country. What they stopped manufacturing was menial and low-end product; because it's not price-effective to have 100 Americans sit on an assembly line and solder SMT components for $7-18/hr. Instead, those potential workers pivoted into service jobs and office work. 1 - https://www.safeguardglobal.com/resources/blog/top-10-manufacturing-countries-in-the-world/ https://www.safeguardglobal.com/resources/blog/top-10-manufa...
  - apercu 7mo ago
    Fair, but there is tons of HIGH END manufacturing we could do that we just don't, even though there is every incentive to do so.
    - deaddodo 7mo ago
      The US does 65% of China's manufacturing capacity at 25% their population. They are doing fine.

tokyobreakfast 7mo ago

[flagged]

embedding-shape 7mo ago
> Unless of course you need aerospace or space-qualified screws Ok... Is that what they're using to build Mac Minis and is that what they need to iterate on typically?
- tokyobreakfast 7mo ago
  [flagged]
  - tredre3 7mo ago
    And America isn't the only source of the world's aerospace or space-qualified screws, so what was the point of your comment? China is fully capable of producing high quality screws.
  - bigbuppo 7mo ago
    The best thing about manufacturing in China is that they will make exactly what you specify. The worst thing about manufacturing in China is that they will make exactly what you specify.
    - cobalt 7mo ago
      no, they will often shortcut when they can get away with it. Companies like Apple just don't let them get away with it
  - Bud 7mo ago
    [dead]
  - n8cpdx 7mo ago
    Are iPhones known for quality issues stemming from low quality parts?

onlyrealcuzzo 7mo ago

You could prototype assembly in China, then have everything ready to go, and do mass assembly elsewhere.

xuki 7mo ago

Mac mini is a relatively low volume product for Apple, the margin hit would not be consequential to their bottom line. I'll believe it when they start making iPhone in the US.

0xWTF 7mo ago

Came here with a similar comment, pasting here to avoid another top-level comment tree. ==== I bought a mac mini a year ago for $599. Personally, I'm pretty sure I would pay another $50 if it said "Made in the USA" on it. Maybe $80. Not sure I would pay $100. But I worry this will prove to be like when Daimler bought Chrysler and shipped the Crossfire fully assembled except the rims, which were bolted on in the US so they could say it was "made in the USA". They only sold 76,014 and now Daimler extracted itself from Chrysler, so maintaining them has become a bespoke hobby.

dangus 7mo ago
The conversion rate is actually 0%. Nobody will pay more for a USA version. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43787647 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43787647
- hn_acc1 7mo ago
  Well, um.. Forgive me for not being in the market for a showerhead in the last few years and / or not knowing about this one company that I didn't see at Home Depot/Lowes when I did buy a couple of them? I admit I'm probably an outlier, but in terms of durable goods, I'd pay 30-50% more for lots of things if they were "made in the USA" or "made in Canada" (any western country) and it meant something - like, better parts availability, repairability, documentation, support, etc. Not all of them, but something - AND, it was paying domestic imports / reducing imports. I'm not living paycheck to paycheck, but I'm not wealthy.
  - logotype 7mo ago
    You’re not alone. I’m a self-funded startup founder and I still buy Made in USA goods (clothes, appliances, tools, supplies, equipment, etc). For me the price isn’t the main factor, it’s simply that I want to support the countries I like. Been doing this for 10 years now. Based in London so I also buy Made in England things too. Never ever support authoritarian regimes!
    - 7mo ago

GeekyBear 7mo ago

> Apple is very tied to Chinese manufacturing Apple (and all the other multinationals) are tied to manufacturing in nations with cheap labor. China is far from the only nation with cheap labor. > India now accounts for approximately 25 percent of global iPhone production, up from single digits just a few years ago. https://manufacturing-today.com/news/apple-moves-quarter-of-iphone-production-to-india-as-exports-surge/ https://manufacturing-today.com/news/apple-moves-quarter-of-...

ruraljuror 7mo ago

Good point about the supply chain; and it seems like most responses mistakenly disagree with you. Thomas Friedman talks about this after his most recent visit to China. Where China excels is through rapid supply chain development by fierce regional competition among several (state-supported/sponsored/seeded?) competitors.

dangus 7mo ago
I get fatigue when everyone claims that all these Chinese businesses are state sponsored. Do we not recognize that western governments do this too? Do we not recognize that western banks and VC firms are quasi-state institutions? Do we not see western countries continually subsidize businesses by lowering corporate tax rates and giving out cheap loans? The US government was giving out $7500 per car to buy EVs and the US carmakers still got demolished by better Chinese products. It’s like the western zeitgeist can’t accept that China is simply out-competing them on pure merit. It’s not possible for China to have every business be state-subsidized and running a loss. At some point the truth is that China is getting wealthy by selling the most competitive goods. It doesn’t matter that the state “subsidizes” it because the money for the subsidy comes from selling the best and most competitive products.
- ruraljuror 7mo ago
  Sorry to cause fatigue. The US government absolutely does not do what China does in this case. But the reason for my paranthesis and question mark was that I was not sure what call it.
- hn_acc1 7mo ago
  China is not state-subsidized / running at a loss on materials so much (although they probably get cheaper rare earth minerals) - they're running at a loss on wages. There's no "loss" there - the state doesn't have to buy labor and sell it to the companies to put into the product at a loss - the companies simply pay less overall in terms of labor, because that's the prevailing rate. Even if you paid 5% more for materials for an iphone but could pay 50% less for labor than China, you could probably beat China. How does the state sponsoring come in? The state represses the people and the wages and prevents them from leaving for greener pastures in many cases, which benefits the corporations.

xmcp123 7mo ago

They won’t just have custom screws, they will sort them by incredibly small amounts of manufacturing error and make those correspond with devices that have similar amounts of manufacturing error, so it matches(like a slightly too large screw going with a slightly too large hole). On production lines. Obviously this is not plan A, but their ops team is insane.

Terr_ 7mo ago
> sort them by incredibly small amounts of manufacturing error and make those correspond with devices that have similar amounts of manufacturing error I spent a little while unsuccessfuly trying to recall the jargon or the anecdotal company-name here, but IIRC there was an early pioneer in this where a company making radios (?) tried to develop a software system that would categorize non-conforming parts so that the flaws in different pieces would cancel out. I don't think it worked for them, at the time it was far more efficient to just spend money on improving the quality and tolerances of the parts.

chvid 7mo ago

They are also very tied to Chinese demand with about 1/5 of their total business coming from China.

Aurornis 7mo ago

> In china they were often able to iterate on designs and have custom screws and other parts made and ramped up in very short times. This becomes less of a problem as the product matures. The Mac Mini is a good example of a design they likely stabilized a while ago.

cobalt 7mo ago
even if the form factor looks similar, the production will change overtime, esp the internals

a-dub 7mo ago

it's probably a good thing to have domestic advanced manufacturing if only to have real-world testbeds for development of advanced automation technology. it's cool and all that boston dynamics can do what they do, but i wonder if one reason why the chinese robotics industry is so advanced is because they've been able to test in production on real production lines, experiment with dark factories and learn a ton in the process. it's kind of funny when you think about it. both the west and east are facing down the same set of potential problems that come with real automation of industries that have served as true economic dynamos for decades.

dlenski 7mo ago
> it's probably a good thing to have domestic advanced manufacturing if only to have real-world testbeds for development of advanced automation technology. Yes, it's a good thing to have domestic advanced manufacturing, but this probably doesn't qualify. According to the article, it's a site where they already assemble servers for Apple's own use, and will now start assembling Mac Minis as well. Electronics assembly is, for the most part, a pretty low-value part of the supply chain. It's not nothing, but it pales in comparison to the scientific and technological sophistication and financial value of wafer fabs and IC test and packaging facilities. (I worked at Intel's flagship fabs in Oregon, and have worked as a consultant with other semi fabs around the world.)

dlenski 7mo ago

> They will agree to make some high margin simple to assemble thing in the US to appease government They'll also hold a ribbon-cutting ceremony with maximum fanfare, at which they'll be sure to fawn over Donald Trump, let him ramble at length, and maybe give him some sort of shiny award. Let's call it The Steve Jobs American Technology Greatness Prize. It'll be a blindingly flashy PVD-gold-plated 12" silicon wafer with a Mount Rushmore-style portrait of Jobs and Trump etched into it.

Romario77 7mo ago

if you look at Mac Mini design, it didn't change much in many years (2011-2024 is practically the same) https://preview.redd.it/always-loved-the-design-of-the-mac-minis-which-one-do-you-v0-0uqdbloumsce1.jpeg https://preview.redd.it/always-loved-the-design-of-the-mac-m... so maybe that's the reason they chose it. They just designed a new iteration in 2024, so maybe they don't expect much change for a while.

ccgreg 7mo ago
The guts on the inside changed several times during that timespan.

ryandrake 7mo ago

> Something about having the whole supply chain in one place I can't find the source but I thought I read somewhere that the major manufacturing cities in China are all geographically laid out like giant assembly lines. The companies that process the raw materials are located mostly inland, then the companies that form those raw materials into metal and plastic stock are next door, and then the companies that take that stock and make components are next door to them, and the companies that input those components and output subassemblies are next door to them, and so on all the way down to the harbor where the companies that produce finished products output directly onto the loading docks where the ships await. The US can't even zone a residential neighborhood without lawyers and special interests jamming things up for decades through endless impact studies and litigation. How is it going to compete with a country that can lay out entire cities, organizing the value chain geographically towards the ocean?

SaltyBackendGuy 7mo ago
This reminds me of a great freakonomics podcast that talked about China being run by engineers and America being run by lawyers. https://freakonomics.com/podcast/china-is-run-by-engineers-america-is-run-by-lawyers/ https://freakonomics.com/podcast/china-is-run-by-engineers-a...
- Avicebron 7mo ago
  Authoritarian central planning isn't an inherent trait of engineers and nor should we aspire for it to be.
  - mlsu 7mo ago
    Have you met an engineer? I'd say "being an engineer" is probably the single most predictive trait for authoritarianism in my experience.
    - lkbm 7mo ago
      Possibly, but it's just as much a predictive trait of being libertarian, which for all its faults, is extremely anti-authoritarian.

827a 7mo ago

And, to be clear about one thing (which I believe is also raised in the book): Much of this is the direct result of Apple investing literally a quarter trillion dollars and exporting critical western IP toward developing Chinese advanced manufacturing capability (among other American technology companies). The story of startups only being able to manufacture in China is a cute tale that is true for startups. For Apple, investing in the strategic capabilities of America's geopolitical rivals was an active decision Tim Cook and other Apple leaders made.

kccqzy 7mo ago
A company like Apple has very little incentive to care about geopolitics, other than by current or future government laws and regulations (a government mandate, tariffs, etc). In the absence of government intervention, Apple has determined that investing a quarter trillion dollars is the cheap choice; getting the same result in the United States would probably need much much more than a quarter trillion dollars worth of investment. If the United States thought that such investments by Apple would have undesirable geopolitical implications, Congress should have acted a long time ago.
- 827a 7mo ago
  Your learned helplessness is defeatist and boring. We need not be Moloch's subjects; Apple's business priorities are not the result of some natural and unstoppable force, and their leadership is not exempt from responsibility because of your belief that it is. Someone, sometime, in a surprisingly boring room, wearing a surprisingly boring suit, made decisions like those which opened a factory in China instead of Texas.
  - kccqzy 7mo ago
    I do not have learned helplessness. Nor have I claimed Apple’s business practices are the result of a natural force. Nothing is natural here. I said that Congress could have acted. Is Congress part of the nature now? In contrast you have provided no arguments for why Apple’s leadership bears responsibility rather than Congress.

bmurphy1976 7mo ago

The term for China's manufacturing advantage is agglomeration. The US is never going to be successful with these manufacturing initiatives until the US government gets its act together and starts rebuilding all the infrastructure that has been destroyed over the last 50 years. That requires more than just tariffs. It requires actual investment. Investment in infrastructure, people education, power, everything. It's actually why silicon valley is so successful because it is an agglomeration of the tech industry. We need the same for manufacturing if we ever expect to do it again.

deleted 7mo ago
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shiroiuma 7mo ago
>Investment in infrastructure, people education, power, everything. This isn't going to happen. The US government these days does not care about investment in things like infrastructure or education.

chrsw 7mo ago

Well put. I tried to explain this to someone years ago after they asked a question like "why don't they just build a factory here?". I was like "you need more than _a_ factory, you need a whole ecosystem of manufacturing". I guess I didn't make my argument clear enough based on their response. I think the USA has been very clear based on our actions over the past 4 or so decades: we don't want this kind of labor in this country. I don't see any material changes despite the recent puff pieces and political grandstanding.

msabalau 7mo ago
It is really unclear why you think that either the political interest or strategic logic of not wanting to rely on manufacturing in China, and having some on the value being created here goes away, or is some idle whim. Sure, if it took decades of slow patient effort to create the current situation, it might take decades to unwind it. And, sure, the US political system is exceptionally bad at industrial policy. But, at the end of the day, the political and military logic is, and will be for the forseeable future, get your supply chains out of China. Just because it is slow and difficult doesn't there is any reason to believe the pressure will relax. (Putting aside the possibility of an AGI/robotics revolution)
- chrsw 7mo ago
  I understand the logic of getting out of China, and the reasoning is sound. However, cost is the bigger issue. Are you willing to pay more for your computers and electronics? Is your neighbor? Is your company? Are your investors? The pressure to reverse this disaster will always be there but material change isn't realistic. We have neither the capacity nor a strong enough inclination to built out an industrial base anywhere near what China can do. I understand China is supplying the whole world and we'd only need to supply ourselves to achieve security, but that also makes the cost problem even worse. Chips will come from Taiwan and everything else will come from China for the foreseeable future unless like you said there's a major disruption from somewhere. Without that, I only see one pathway everyone can stomach: continue growing the economy, which includes leveraging China's industrial and labor base, and hope any political differences with China can be mitigated diplomatically.

typ 7mo ago

American business leaders have (had?) an obsession with gross margin and tech "advancedness." They thought they would be the winner as long as they occupied the high-tech sectors in the supply chain. So they discarded the high-volume, low-margin, low-growth, low-tech businesses like assembly lines and outsourced them. But the reality is that the proximity of the assembly lines creates a cost advantage that attracts more upstream suppliers to surround it. Even Intel was seeking to build more fabs in China before being stopped by the US government.

yalogin 7mo ago

They did and stopped previously? Interesting, can you please give more details?

vablings 7mo ago

The Mac Pro is already made in the USA and has been for a long long time, at this same facility the apple server is also made.

asimovDev 7mo ago
to be fair it's not clear if Mac Pro will continue to exist, it's been in a limbo for a while. When I saw this post on the front page my first thought was "oh, this is how they solve the 'We need to have a product assembled in the US but we only have Mac Pro that we do not want anymore'"

bbshfishe 7mo ago

Chinese manufacturing? It’s not made in China. It’s assembled.

burningChrome 7mo ago

>> Something about having the whole supply chain in one place and very motivated. This is the legacy of Tim Cook before Jobs passed. He was the guy who put immense pressure on Chinese factories to deliver on the insane quotas and timeframes he forced on them. He essentially blackmailed companies in order for them to his bidding - threatening to go to competitors if they didn't deliver exactly what he wanted. The stuff Apple got away with in China could never be repeated here. I mean, you think you can regularly push so many workers to commit suicide, you have to put nets around the buildings in order to dissuade them from jumping off buildings? Yeah, not happening here. Which is why Apple does business there. Its why Tim Cook was able to abuse Chinese labor laws to get them to deliver the impossible, time and again, regardless of the human cost.

ribosometronome 7mo ago
Not happening here? Foxconn's per capita rate during the peak of their suicide cluster was like 1.4-1.8 per 100k, America as a whole averages closer to 12-15 per 100k.
- embedding-shape 7mo ago
  So America the country is more likely to lead people to suicide than Foxconn the company? I'm not sure that's making the point you wanted it to make.

leokennis 7mo ago

> They will agree to make some high margin simple to assemble thing in the US to appease government I chuckled out loud at the huge-ass-safety-hazard-in-any-manufacturing-environment US flag thumb tacked to the factory wall. It's all wafer thin gold leaf to appease the toddler in command. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/images/2026/02/apple-accelerates-us-manufacturing-with-mac-mini-production/article/Apple-US-manufacturing-investment-Houston-Advanced-Manufacturing-Center-01_big.jpg.large_2x.jpg https://www.apple.com/newsroom/images/2026/02/apple-accelera...

Neil44 7mo ago

A bit like the automotive CKD kits, to comply with trade rules in the most efficient way possible.

tedd4u 7mo ago

'Q:What does China's competitive edge look like in practice?' 'A: One example from The Times article: When Jobs decided just a month before the iPhone hit markets to replace a scratch-prone plastic screen with a glass one, a Foxconn factory in China woke up about 8,000 workers when the glass screens arrived at midnight, and the workers were assembling 10,000 iPhones a day within 96 hours. 'Another example: Apple had originally estimated that it would take nine months to hire the 8,700 qualified industrial engineers needed to oversee production of the iPhone; in China, it took 15 days. Anecdotes like that leave you "feeling almost impressed by the no-holds-barred capabilities of these manufacturing plants," says Edward Moyer at CNET News, "impressed and queasy at the same time."' From: https://theweek.com/articles/478705/why-apple-builds-iphones-everything-else-china https://theweek.com/articles/478705/why-apple-builds-iphones...

midnighthollowc 7mo ago
That's pretty amazing, honestly. Here I can't even get a tradesperson to give me a quote, much less show up on a dime. I guess I need another eight billion dollars, give or take a penny
- kakacik 7mo ago
  Project this a decade or two into future and I honestly don't have a solution for the west but a gradual decline into mediocrity. We have less corruption and communicate directly also about problems, so at least that will work for us for some time too. But maybe China and similar places will elevate their overall prosperity enough that people will refuse to be treated like this en masse, so there is some hope.
  - audunw 7mo ago
    These anecdotes come from the very peak of Chinas demographic dividend. In a decade or two their demographic dividend will be in a steep decline. China also needs to change something drastic to avoid brain drain. The migration of competent people is still one-way. There no path to become a Chinese citizen. China has come a long way, but Europe is still ahead on building liveable communities and wok/life balance, while the US is still attractive to those seeking freedom and prosperity. China has avoided issues due to a huge population and that demographic dividend. But eventually it’ll become an issue

brightball 7mo ago

Yep. Stories like that are the strongest case to protect US on shore manufacturing. All of the knowledge, skill talent and associated supply chains naturally colocate.

midnitewarrior 7mo ago

The manufacturing facility they are committing to is 8-12x the size of the average American home at 20,000 sq. feet. This is a token operation meant to project the idea that manufacturing is coming back to the United States. This is appeasement by Tim Apple.

lenerdenator 7mo ago

At a certain point, if you want the people of your own country to have any sort of loyalty or deference for you, then you'll need to have loyalty or deference for them. "But it's cheaper in our main geopolitical rival" doesn't quite wear like it used to.

black_13 7mo ago

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