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Microsoft kills official way to activate Windows 11/10 without internet
- jccx70 10mo agoWindows server is the best Windows os (can be use as a client os) but it's still Windows shit.
- briHass 10mo agoNothing wrong with Windows Server Core, which has zero UI. Managed totally with Powershell, which once you get used to it, is an excellent shell/scripting language.
- vips7L 10mo agoPowershell is really good. For scripting you get the whole C# standard library and can write cmdlets in C# itself.
- wewewedxfgdf 10mo agoMicrosoft could have made Windows: able to run on any hardware free for basic usage, paid for commercial usage lightweight, simple, stripped of all cruft and extras consistent in it's UI and cleaned up from 40 years of inconsistencies But they didn't - so people are looking for alternatives.
- spankibalt 10mo agoAs much as I like many Windows versions, the corporate idiocy of the company behind the OS is indeed something else.
- alex1138 10mo agoThis is true with a lot of companies. If you made people actually use their own product (do they?!) maybe they'd think twice before doing boneheaded things Then again, I get the biological desire to put food on the table for one's family and therein lies the problem
- yoyohello13 10mo agoI remember I was at a Python conference some years ago and every Microsoft dev I saw had a MacBook. So no, I don’t think they use their own product internally.
- dmix 10mo agoThe only thing worse than work-from-office is mandatory work-on-windows.
- jiggawatts 10mo agoIf only there was something Microsoft’s developers could do about that…
- ethagnawl 10mo agoAs an aside, I used to know a number of MS heads who ran Windows on Mac Intel machines because they preferred the hardware (~2014 MBP) and/or because they ostensibly worked at Mac shops and were handed one upon entry.
- badc0ffee 10mo agoIf I still had to use Windows I'd want a laptop with home/end/ins/del/pgup/pgdn keys, and alt/win in the right place.
- eviks 10mo agoThe last issue is solvd in software, the first one has a good workaround in software
- matwood 10mo agoLong ago at this point when my job required windows, the best experience for me was running it in a VM on a MBP. Actually worked quite well since it was easy stop/start windows and segmented work off on its own.
- dismalaf 10mo agoWith the way the economy is going (some call it K-shaped) it's more profitable to squeeze as hard as you can and extract as much as possible out of whales versus trying to have mass market appeal. Azure, Office and Copilot will sustain them. Nvidia is doing something similar where they're just extracting as much as possible out of AI companies and not caring one bit about consumers.
- gruez 10mo ago>With the way the economy is going (some call it K-shaped) it's more profitable to squeeze as hard as you can and extract as much as possible out of whales versus trying to have mass market appeal How does whatever microsoft is doing to windows line up with that?
- ffsm8 10mo agoHmm, it does line up with that from my perspective too. It's just a different way to say "you're the product, not the customer" if you look at the statement from a neutral perspective - the whale being the actual customer, who changes all the time depending on what Microsoft MBAs think might have the highest potential value they can extract.
- gruez 10mo ago>the whale being the actual customer, who changes all the time depending on what Microsoft MBAs think might have the highest potential value they can extract. Who's the "whale" in this context? Windows users who subscribe to copilot? Enterprise? Advertisers?
- dismalaf 10mo agoEnterprise.
- dismalaf 10mo agoEnterprises are the whales. Microsoft sells user management, Office, Copilot, Outlook, etc... all bundled together for more per seat per year than a consumer will spend or generate in the whole lifecycle of their device. Nevermind Azure. So consumers are mostly ignored, except as a testbed to shove AI and ads.
- neilv 10mo agoNever ascribe to stupidity, that which has been proven to be malice.
- grugagag 10mo agoYeah, they delivered whatever they delivered on purpose. Sometimes I imagine MS is playingn Lemmings with their users to reach their corporate goals.
- Ferret7446 10mo agoI doubt the various shitty parts of Windows (not the forced AI/whatever) is due to malice, unless you mean employees maliciously trying to destroy the company.
- stuartd 10mo agoHanlon’s razor applies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor
- yndoendo 10mo agoI would say the malice is from management, investors, and product leads. Developers just do what they are told. Microsoft is choosing enshitification versus quality. CEO needs to pump that stock and having enterprise locked into without alternatives helps them. I grew up with Microsoft and now you have to pay me to use their products. I would never choose their OS for product hosting. Even their embedded / IoT is trying to force a Microsoft account and push against local user.
- aunty_helen 10mo agoOr are they trying to move users onto other platforms, more modern platforms that users are more comfortable paying for. Desktops existed before punching in your credit card numbers was a common thing, that history is hard to shrug. Xbox for gamers, mobile for everyone else and business editions of windows for the enterprise.
- 10mo ago
- cedws 10mo agoI get the impression that a lot of the old guard are long gone from the Windows team or have no influence. Raymond Chen is still around but not sure how much he actually works on Windows day to day.
- ecshafer 10mo agoMicrosoft was founded in 1975. 1981 was the first DOS release. 1985 was the first release of Windows. 40 years working on windows is a long time, I would be surprised if anyone for the original team is left at this point. Even someone joining out of college in 2000 is now 25 years in, is 57, and could feasibly be retiring....
- xmddmx 10mo agoYou mean 1990. Someone graduating college in 1990 would have been about 21. That was 35 years ago, so they would be about 56 in 2025. Math is hard.
- GenerocUsername 10mo agoCmon man, it's a comment not a research paper. Off by one isn't worth a follow up snark
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- sokoloff 10mo agoTheir main point was it is off by 10; then they introduced an additional confusing question of “is it off by 10, 11, or 12?”
- cwnyth 10mo agoOff by 10+1. Someone who graduated college in 2000 = 25 + 22 (4 years of college from 18) = 47, not 57, and not anywhere close to the retirement age. It might be pedantry, but the original comment should have said 1990, not 2000.
- 29athrowaway 10mo agoThat would require empathy.
- bigfatkitten 10mo agoIt could be a nice OS, if Microsoft didn’t go out of their way to make it awful. I run Active Directory at home, for various reasons. I’ve got Group Policy in a good enough shape now that I’m not terribly troubled by Microsoft’s enshittification but it took substantial effort to get there, and it requires some work to maintain.
- ribosometronome 10mo ago>free for basic usage, paid for commercial usage And lose all the OEM license money?
- relativeadv 10mo agowon't someone think of the shareholders?
- al_borland 10mo agoWindows is now less than 10% of their revenue, last I saw. I think Windows is more valuable to keep people in the Microsoft ecosystem, than as a source of direct revenue.
- wlesieutre 10mo agoDo they make more money from OEM licenses, or from bombarding Windows users with OneDrive and Copilot 365 advertisements?
- ProllyInfamous 10mo agoWhat if it's actually the AI-derived "user profile," sold to advertisers/govts, after their mandatory bot scans all your drive. Just hypothetically... of course they're not actually doing this? ---- Anywho, doesn't matter cause my Xeon went from Windows 10 to Linux, this year. Still rocking a Win7Pro Core2Duo (as my second favorite machine).
- guidedlight 10mo agoPerhaps Microsoft plans to bundle Windows into its "Microsoft 365" subscription for the consumer market.
- ajsnigrutin 10mo agoWhen did any manager get promoted for keeping software stable? Just look at google and their chat softwares... you either make something new, or someone else does and you're left behind... be it ads in their start menu, spyware "AI", or paid solitaire.
- userbinator 10mo agoWhen did any manager get promoted for keeping software stable? A few industries reward that. Telcos and other parts of critical infrastructure come to mind.
- testing22321 10mo agoI worked for a telco for four years. It was horrifically stupid and rewarded the dumbest possible outcomes. Is goal is increase revenue! Create project to roll out fibre to a new rural community. Sign up all 40 houses in that community at $100 a month. Project cost $10 mil. Bonuses and promotions for increased revenue!
- ocdtrekkie 10mo agoThat pays for itself in 20 years and most of those customers won't have better choices in the next 50. The core of that infrastructure will probably oitlive most people on the team. Sounds like a good long term stable business.
- imtringued 10mo ago20*12*40*100=960000 They're $9.04 million in the red.
- ocdtrekkie 10mo agoHah, I missed a zero. ;D
- oivey 10mo ago
- crm9125 10mo agoLuckily Linux exists.
- alex1138 10mo agoI'll add, with no disrespect intended to BSD, because they're serious OSes, but GPL is also a really good thing to have
- oska 10mo agoYes, the GPL (by design) is what kept Linux from being embraced, extended and then extinguished
- userbinator 10mo agoOnly the last part, as there have already been plenty of corporate interests infecting Linux.
- jccx70 10mo agolol, what's your point really? alternatives exists since very long time.
- dyauspitr 10mo agoIt’s not about giving you a clean experience, it’s about setting you up as a constant cash cow hooked into and paying for all their services. I hate adobes current business model and for that matter fusion360 as well. It’s all internet required bullshit but it’s making them tons of money and there are no viable alternatives.
- mips_avatar 10mo agoThe employees inside really wanted to build this. The company decided not to.
- blastersyndrome 10mo agoI'm not so sure about that. If Microsoft actually removed all the cruft, then they would need around 5% of the employees currently working on it. They'd all be unemployed.
- mips_avatar 10mo agoYou’d be surprised how many legitimately want to improve the product. This idea that we’re powerless to disobey our incentives is so reductive.
- slowmovintarget 10mo agoThat's an OS for the users. Windows is an OS for the people who use the users.
- userbinator 10mo agoMicrosoft's slogan in the 90s was "where do you want to go today?" Now, it should be "where do we want you to go today?"
- dxdm 10mo agoThanks for the 90s nostalgia. I just realized how much I miss these days and their optimism.
- danillonunes 10mo agoMake it sound more empowering: "Let Copilot decide where you want to go today!"
- zahlman 10mo ago> consistent in it's UI and cleaned up from 40 years of inconsistencies ... While also maintaining their famous backwards compatibility?
- cookiengineer 10mo agoHonestly Windows 7 was the best OS they ever built. It just went downwards from there, and they abandoned it essentially. I don't understand what's going on at Microsoft, but they leave huge stacks of money on the table. LTSC versions weren't "popular", they were the least worst option for a lot of industries. And now they kinda completely ignored all customer feedback.
- hshdhdhj4444 10mo agoXP SP2 was pretty good too. As was Windows NT & 2000 for their time.
- hggjkggijg 10mo agoWin2k is where it was at. It was also my last windows os ....
- mike_d 10mo agoMicrosoft managed to make every other release of Windows good. 95 good, NT 4 bad, 98 good, 98 SE bad, 2000 good, Me bad, XP good, Vista bad, 7 good... The plan with Windows 10 was to light their desktop market share on fire in the hopes they could see iPads in the distance and try to chase them. Windows 11 was codenamed "give your toxic ex a second chance."
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- gnopgnip 10mo agoThey basically did that though for basic usage. Not activating windows only stops you from changing the background and removes the watermark for activation.
- antonkochubey 10mo agoIt’s also illegal in most countries
- userbinator 10mo agoSo is exceeding the speed limit...
- GaryBluto 10mo agoHow did we get here from W2K? It's hard to think of a time when you could use software without internet connection or a phone line.
- esafak 10mo agoTwo decades of turning screws.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- chews 10mo agoFinding more modern ways to be lame and making it easier for folks to either pirate (use shady activation methods) or move to other platforms.
- robby_w_g 10mo agoI put up with so much Windows crap over the years, and Windows 11 was the final straw. It’s not even the gaming OS anymore as Linux feels snappier and more stable for running games.
- darthg0d 10mo agoThis was me after decades of running Windows. I'm now firmly on Debian (13).
- aspbee555 10mo agoI have been running Deb 13 on my primary workstation for a couple months, just as stable as Debian 12 I was running for years on my primary. I am able to do all of my programming work, virtual win/mac for compiling and able to play every Steam game I try with zero problems (BG3, CyberPunk, etc), all from a $500 mini-pc. Even bluetooth has had zero issue (which is usually a problem/pita)
- 756D61 10mo agoWhat mini-pc if may know?
- XorNot 10mo agoAnyone know if Helldivers 2 works on Linux now? Because I'd say if I can't stick with 10 much longer then I'm just going to format that partition.
- pyrolistical 10mo agoHow about requiring a ms account to activate? Have they closed the double install trick? 1. Install once with ms account and activate. 2. Reinstall offline with local account. 3. It will be activated when you go back online. I suspect the remote server remember your computer hardware generated guid
- mysterypie 10mo agoAs someone who hasn't used Windows in a long time, could you explain the benefit of doing a double install like that? I.e., if you stopped at step #1, it's activated, so what purpose does step 2 serve?
- pyrolistical 10mo agoTo have a local account
- MarsIronPI 10mo agoHm, when I set up the pre-installed Windows 11 on my mother's new laptop, I was able to set it up without any Microsoft account at all (she never had one and doesn't want one). I remember that it was possible by running some command at one point during the setup process. Is that also gone by now?
- bl4kers 10mo agoYes, it's gone: https://pureinfotech.com/microsoft-blocks-windows-11-microsoft-account-bypass/ https://pureinfotech.com/microsoft-blocks-windows-11-microso...
- thewhitetulip 10mo agoPeople should switch to Linux. I started using Fedora on Cosmic and it is great! Mint is very similar to Windows UI
- datatrashfire 10mo agoi recently upgraded a computer. windows 10 deactivated itself due to the hardware change. i tried everything i could to reactivate. microsoft support told me my only solution was to buy a new license. microsoft treats its customer with contempt.
- sekh60 10mo agoI'm curious did you have an OEM license or a retail license? OEM licenses die with the mobo.
- bigstrat2003 10mo agoOEM licenses are for the computer, not the motherboard. The online activation historically hasn't worked if you change motherboard, but the phone line folks would always activate it for you if you explained that it was the same computer with a different motherboard.
- sekh60 10mo agoTIL. I always heard that their licensing people tended to uphold the motherboard line.
- datatrashfire 10mo agoi bought a builder license from newegg in 2017. unfortunately i was not diligent about saving the product key. this was actually the third time i had been in this scenario after changing hardware. no idea why it wouldn’t work this time around.
- hypeatei 10mo agoAt that point, find a reseller site and buy a key for cheap or just don't activate Windows at all. I don't think you lose much "features" when leaving it unactivated. It's not worth your time to deal with Microsoft support over Windows activation keys in 2026.
- toast0 10mo ago
- TheRoque 10mo agoI wonder what's their endgame. I mean, if it keeps getting worse, at some point they will really bleed users. Even if for now the stats (e.g. steam hardware survey), show only a slight increase in Linux users (and a lot of them could be dual booting)
- VerifiedReports 10mo agoWindows is absolutely insufferable now. Offensive, defective, regressive, clumsy, slow garbage.
- TheRoque 10mo agoI 100% agree, I dual boot myself and get reminded on how horrible the user experience is as opposed to Fedora with KDE Plasma
- daveguy 10mo agoI boot to Linux, but have a Windows 11 VM. I haven't spun up the Windows VM more than once a month for many months (maybe a year?). And that's just to update windows.
- greenavocado 10mo agoSpin up Windows 98 in a VM to remind yourself how insanely lightweight it used to be while still resembling something of a modern system
- VerifiedReports 10mo agoI had to return to Windows for my job, and it's appalling how many basic functions are now MISSING. For example: Try selecting two or more PNGs in Explorer and opening them in Photoshop (or whatever). YOU CAN'T. "Open with" is simply missing from the context menu if you have multiple files selected. This functionality was taken for granted 30+ years ago!
- hadlock 10mo ago
- bitwize 10mo ago(as a person whose "year of the Linux desktop" was literally 30 frickin' years ago) Oh no! Anyway...
- imajoredinecon 10mo agoMy version of that is to just use a (high-end) Chromebook. The OS never gets in the way, can’t remember the last time I had to change a system setting or manually upgrade anything
- BloodyIron 10mo agoKills ONE official way to activate Win11/10 without internet. There's still KMS and other methods... Article title is slightly misleading. Sure, it sucks about the phone activation thing, but frankly... STOP USING WINDOWS ALREADY.
- gethly 10mo ago[dead]
- badc0ffee 10mo agoThe what now?
- SilentM68 10mo agoI never thought it would happen, but now I use Linux about 95% of the time. These days, I rarely touch Windows. It feels like Microsoft’s higher-ups never found a clear direction for the OS, focusing more on saturating the market than on maintaining quality. :(
- expedition32 10mo agoThis is just so bizarre. Like 90% of the people wouldn't even know you COULD activate without an MS account and the remainder will just use Rufus to bypass restrictions. So what is MS actually "fixing"?
- fph 10mo agoDoes the Rufus bypass still work after these changes?
- cbcoutinho 10mo agoI've been running openSUSE tumbleweed myself for years, and recommend Linux to like-minded power users. OP is preaching to the choir. How do you all deal with (extended) family? This Christmas I spent time with my parents and the topic of Windows 11 came up again with all of its associated dark patterns. What do you all do to help them out of this madness? Is Ubuntu/Fedora/etc the best option for seniors? My dad's entire career was in Silicon Valley 1.0 where Excel/Outlook was his bread and butter and feels married to Windows, but ever since leaving the workforce those skills are more of a hindrance than an asset. Now that he's retired, he still uses Excel to plan vacations for example, but Windows is riddled with this BS and I am powerless to help him navigate this anti-consumer behavior. It's incredible that Microsoft is shooting their most loyal customers in the foot with this BS. Do you all help your parents remotely? What kind of issues do you run into being your parents IT support?
- MattGaiser 10mo agoThis is why Windows will get away with it. As much as Windows is deeply flawed, the user interface challenges with Linux are difficult to overcome. Until there is a version of Linux where you don’t have to open the console, Windows will keep its market.
- Telaneo 10mo ago> Until there is a version of Linux where you don’t have to open the console This is already the case from the Grandma use case, i.e. nothing more than a web browser and maybe Thunderbird and an office program. The terminal issue doesn't come up until you start getting into people who know just enough to be dangerous (myself included). The larger issue is that computers with Linux pre-installed are (within a rounding error) not a thing, and thus Grandma can't go out and buy one. Telling her to install it on her current computer makes about as much sense to her as asking her to flob the nerfwhizzle. And even if she could, would she place her bets on a (to her) completely new computer system? Not without help or solid recommendations from trusted sources.
- lewiscollard 10mo agoMy old man has been running Linux for nearly 20 years now. I PROMISE not only that he has never once opened a console, but would spontaneously combust if you suggested it. (I have used a command line on his computer a few times in those two-ish decades, when doing my very rare tech support, but that's just because that's the fastest way for me to get anything done.) Maybe Windows back in e.g. Windows 2000 days would have some sort of claim to user interface discoverability and predictability which no Linux distribution would have. That ship has sailed; Windows today is a shitshow.
- LeoPanthera 10mo agoWindows 11 is a thin client for the Microsoft cloud. It's not surprising that you have to activate it online, and that you can no longer use it without a Microsoft account. That's the whole point. People who complain that Windows isn't what they want are missing the point. Windows isn't for you. macOS, Linux, and more obscure choices still exist for general purpose computing. SteamOS or various Steam focused Linux distros exist for gaming. ChromeOS exists as a less offensive and more reliable thin OS. Trying to force Windows into being something it isn't is a waste of your time.
- stakhanov 10mo agoAlways reminds me of the quote "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." by T. J. Watson Sr. The quote is usually delivered as a punchline of sorts, but we're rapidly approaching a world where there truly will be only five computers. If you define a computer as a system capable of truly general purpose computing, and if you count the computers as systems each capable of operating truly independently of the others. The term "general purpose" needs the further qualification, that a great deal of power and political capital will be needed to have any say in what purpose one of these five computers will be put to, and it will then be forced on the other people who are forced to work with that computer.
- thevillagechief 10mo agoGood on them. Just hastening the inevitable shift to Linux. I don't even care what they do anymore.
- chii 10mo ago> Just hastening the inevitable shift to Linux i do feel the ecosystem isn't broad enough for linux to become consumer facing. E.g., if you buy a random chinese made writing tablet and tried using it on linux, it has less than even chance of working straight out the box. Similarly with bluetooth, wifi (for laptops), etc. The problem is that OEM are locked into windows, so you have the chicken/egg problem where OEM won't want to spend effort on linux compatibility without a large customer base, and customer base won't grow unless they know for sure it is always going to work for _any_ piece of hardware they might purchase. May be steam machine and valve could be the push it needs to establish a large customer base.
- xigoi 10mo agoI have a writing tablet from who knows where that my brother gave me and it works flawlessly on Linux.
- jccx70 10mo agoPeople who care about Windows, lol.
- vivzkestrel 10mo agowe should all come together and collectively kill the idea of using a windows based operating system unless they get their stuff together and give us an AI free, bloat free, single page with 10000 settings configurable for privacy and security and a promise of updating only once a month with full opt out
- efitz 10mo agoI used to work at Microsoft in the Windows team (XP/2003/Longhorn/Vista/7). The product today doesn’t feel like the product I worked on; I feel no connection to it, and every time I think that there’s nothing they could do to make me dislike it any more, Microsoft has another “hey, hold my beer and watch this” moment. The problem with the old Microsoft this that it was run by engineers who didn’t understand user experience. The problem now is that it’s run by MBAs who dont care about users, just licenses.
- inatreecrown2 10mo agoI wonder if Microsoft will ever turn ship with Windows, or will it all be a decline until it is no longer needed.
- stock_toaster 10mo agoAt this point it is really only just a vehicle to drive more traffic to office365 (or whatever weird name microsoft is calling it this week).
- jofla_net 10mo agolets ask SEARS
- t1234s 10mo agodoes this affect massgrave.dev?
- vips7L 10mo agoUpgrading to Windows 11 tomorrow for my new gaming pc. Really looking forward to it. Mostly so I can use the new Phone Link functionality to get my iMessages on my desktop.
- jwnin 10mo agois that fully functional, or still limited to 1:1 conversations?
- vips7L 10mo agoNot sure l, I honestly haven’t looked at it since its initial release. Either way, 1-1s are all I really care about.
- dartharva 10mo agoDo yourself a favor and stick to Windows 10. ISOs are still available on Microsoft's website and you can use local accounts and activate ESU using any of the scripts available on GitHub. Even better, use the LTSC releases.
- vips7L 10mo agoI’ve been using 11 on my laptop for years. I honestly think it’s fine. I spend 99% of my time in a game or IntelliJ.
- TheJoeMan 10mo agoThis is not good to hear, at my work we have the production technicians activate the occasional Windows 7 PC via the phone. We do it this way as these are specialized embedded PC’s that won’t connect to the internet. Flippant comments to “just use Linux” are not understanding the realities of keeping 20yr old software in the medical, offshore drilling, etc industries.
- inetknght 10mo ago> Flippant comments to “just use Linux” are not understanding the realities of keeping 20yr old software in the medical, offshore drilling, etc industries. I make such comments. Tell me: what exactly is problematic about medical, offshore drilling, etc industries which makes it difficult or impossible to switch? ... wanna hire me to work on that? I am convinced that, whatever the cost is, it will be cheaper than using software on a very-outdated very-proprietary operating system for another couple of decades.
- tsujamin 10mo agoTo name a few (presumably): drivers, proprietary protocols, vendor warranties/support, licensing/relicensing, paying you to do the work, waiting for the work to be done/tested, paying for workforce re-training, justifying this to management etc. All these reasons suck, but they’re all reality in one industry or another sadly.
- tadfisher 10mo agoIt was the same reality 20 years ago when they ditched DOS for Windows XP. At least now it's far easier to run most things in a VM.
- inetknght 10mo ago> drivers Linux kernel is open source and really easy to read, and also fairly easy to write drivers for. > proprietary protocols I've written many network softwares, and proprietary protocols aren't difficult to me. > vendor warranties/support Fuck vendor lock-in. Move to Linux. > licensing/relicensing Fuck vendors. > paying you to do the work ...is cheaper than paying vendors. > waiting for the work to be done/tested Here, let me demonstrate that it works... with many many many automated tests. > * paying for workforce re-training* Not really important if it's well-done. > justifying this to management A lot of business management can't see past their own nose until it comes to money. Do some maths and show them the cost savings in a presentation. They'll listen.
- yellowapple 10mo agoAFAICT this doesn't affect activating via a KMS server (incl. KMS emulators like vlmcsd), correct?
- 999900000999 10mo agoThis is the reason Windows is essentially free. I believe once( this is an urban legend) a manufacturer in a middle income country considered going with Linux to save money and Microsoft flew out a sales rep next day to put a stop to it. Microsoft likes it when you get a "deal" and buy a pro key for 10$. Whatever, you'll subscribe to half a dozen Microwave services ideally paying them 30$ to 40$ a month forever. The last thing they want is you to try Linux. However, I had the joy of watching multiple Linux desktop environments crash when I switched to my Bluetooth headphones. Cinnamon and Budgie both crashed. No one knows why. I had to switch to Mate and then spend another 20 minutes trying to get it look ok. No typical user wants to deal with this. They'd assume Linux doesn't work and move on.
- ehnto 10mo agoIt's not like Windows hasn't had a slew of bullshit like this over the years. Especially around audio and peripherals. It still changes my default headphones every time I log in, doesn't recognise my standard audio interface, it's a crapshoot if my USB devices are all recognised every boot.
- canadiantim 10mo agoYeah, but now we have AI to handhold people in troubleshooting Linux issues, so huzzah, the golden age is upon us.
- rasz 10mo ago>I believe once( this is an urban legend) a manufacturer in a middle income country considered going with Linux to save money and Microsoft flew out a sales rep next day to put a stop to it. non urban legend: Munich migrated whole city (15K computers) to Linux saving millions. Microsoft moved their German HQ to Munich to win back the contract, and year later city announced removing linux and going back to windows.
- beAbU 10mo agoSome mornings when I wake my laptop from sleep, my USB webcam doesn't work. No matter how many times I plug and unplug, no dice. Sometimes the wifi just refuses to connect to my network. Only a full reboot fixes things. Sometimes, while I do things on a browser, I get a BSOD, no warning. Some mornings, usually when I left important work open and half finished the night before, my computer decides to do an update and all my open windows, tabs, reference documents etc are gone, as if someone came and cleared my workbench mid project and now I need to set up all my shit again from scratch. My personal laptop is a 10 year old POS thinkpad T-something with Linux Mint. Biggest issue is I forget to properly shut it down, and to plug it in every now and then, and the shot battery runs down. Admittedly, the bluetooth is sometimes a little iffy, but I've spent 0 effort trying to resolve it. I just open the lid, and my computer is ready for me. Boots up in an instant and always in the state I left it in (unless I let the battery run down). My new, modern, high spec, high ram, high-res laptop is easily an order of magnitude more frustrating to use than my linux shitbox laptop. I quit my job, and bought the laptop from the company. It's getting a wipe this weekend and some flavour of linux, and the wife is getting it as a belated christmas gift. She's due an upgrade, and I decided she's ready to move to linux now.
- fbias 10mo agoThe negativity in this thread is amusing. I can’t take HN seriously anymore, you guys crack me up with your flimsy outrage and dramatic monologues. I’ll be upgrading to Win 11 and activating it with an internet connection. And I won’t think twice about it.
- allenrb 10mo agoDid you miss the quotation marks around “upgrading”?
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- einsteinx2 10mo agoGood for you?
- AnonymousPlanet 10mo agoLooks like everyone gets the OS they deserve.
- ehnto 10mo agoAdd it to the list. I won't install another Windows machine, after more than two decades of Windows at home. I guess mildly privacy concious gamer was not one of target their demographics.
- evil_morty 10mo agoThe only way this epidemic of Microsoft would end if a Linux company has a monetary incentive to serve customers. My mother doesn't need to worry about typing `chmod` into her android mobile terminal.
- SunlitCat 10mo agoWell, one company is doing already that. It's Valve and their ongoing work on proton, steam deck (which runs on linux) and much more in that space.
- lukaslalinsky 10mo agoDoes your mother know how to install a device driver on Windows? None of the non-technical people I know can't fix anything on their computers. I've been doing experiments over the last 10 or so years, I've been borrowing my Linux laptops to people, and to my surprise, they had absolutely no problem using it. Especially children, you just start using GNOME as if it's nothing. They are already used to different phones, different kinds of computers, it really makes no difference to them. Your mother is probably checking gmail, watching youtube, and maybe writing google docs, not much else.
- doublerabbit 10mo ago> Your mother is probably checking gmail, watching youtube, and maybe writing google docs, not much else. Condescending. My mother shouldn't need to mess with udev rules to play music to her Bluetooth Speaker because she uses a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard. She also doesn't want to hang about waiting for systemd to shutdown X out of Y retries when she turns off the desktop because the bluetooth speaker had gone awol. She also uses a wacom tablet which requires more configuration. Windows provides Plug & Play, and then works. Linux provides Plug & Play with lumps requiring configuration outside of a USB stick. Can we stop pretending that linux is perfect and in a state for non-techies to swap over? It's potential but still not suitable for the average user. Watching streaming services natively isn't possible without some sort of a hack. I do it for a job, I don't want to be further support for her outside of. She's an 70-year old illustrator so Photoshop is a must. Her friends who are in their 50's are the same. Linux even after retraining wouldn't gel with them. Krita, GIMP, are not alternatives for her. Heck, she even maintains her own website. My father is a historian. He has archives of history stuff bottled away on applications that are not *nix. Yes Wine is suitable for that but that again another set of obstacles.
- throw03172019 10mo agoIf windows is anything like navigating Azure and other developer platforms of Microsoft, I don’t want it. How is that a multi trillion dollar company?
- jmward01 10mo agoI have a windows laptop (and a mac) for work. The windows laptop gets turned on, connected to my limited guest network, only when work yells at me that it hasn't had its security patches recently and in the extremely rare times I need it to do a full build (I'm trying to get our build process away from windows specific. I got the parts I work on away at least). I used MS DOS v2.0. I knew every setting inside and out and had all the tricks down through windows XP. I grudgingly used it up until 5 years ago when I couldn't take MS destroying the OS and user experience any more. Since I switched I have never looked back. Not once have I thought 'Gee, I wish I had a windows box'. Even for gaming. Especially for 'productivity' apps like word and the like. MS used to be THE OS for developers. You built apps for windows because the best tools to build apps were there and the best experience developing was there. Now I have no idea who they are building an OS for other than corporations. It is painful. It is bloated. It is invasive. It isn't intuitive. It can't be trusted. Every time I see windows I cringe and am thankful there are actual alternatives. Good luck MS. You are only being used by people that have to or don't understand they have another option. Lock-in is their only advantage.
- bilekas 10mo ago> For the fastest and most convenient way to activate your product, please visit our online product activation portal at aka.ms/aoh God these companies are insufferable.
- maplant 10mo agowhat a coincidence, I'm switching fully over to linux tomorrow
- zuminator 10mo agoMicrosoft is making Windows into the Nigerian Prince of operating systems. Classically, Nigerian Prince scams are so obvious that they weed out all the people smart enough to avoid being swindled, leaving the easy pickings to be plucked without much effort. Windows is the same. By Microsoft removing all bypass measures that make it tolerable, their remaining user base will just end up being people who don't care about security and privacy, people who won't complain about being inundated with ads, AI, and bingware, people who have no idea that a modern operating system should be fast, customizable, and open. That 90% customer base is easy to fleece with 10% effort, so why bother with the 10% base that will require 90% effort?
- faust201 10mo agoMy guess is that they are focused only on to cashcow -> enterprise, office, (and all Copilot BS). Sadly very few of IT people I know of move to Linux or macOS for this specific reason. Just like XP users tolerated the tons of systray, toolbar crap - most are tolerating AI shit. To be fair to even knowledgeable people, most are happy to live their live on Smartphone (+ maybe tablet). Most get a corporate laptop from work. Or gamers that are already used to Windows. So inertia.
- moltopoco 10mo agoMany gamers are married to Windows exclusive games like Fortnite etc., but gamers are also more rebellious than corporate IT staff and many have actually built their computers from parts, so they are not scared of flashing a USB drive. I'm optimistic that this group is the next one to break away from Windows.
- tavavex 10mo agoGaming is the biggest thing that keeps me on Windows, followed by the fact that I use an Nvidia GPU, followed by a very localized case of inertia where I have so much data, settings and programs concentrated in my OS install that migrating it all over is going to be a monumental pain in the ass. But luckily, Linux gaming has gotten way better and I don't play the kind of games that categorically refuses to run there (anything with highly involved anti-cheat systems), so once my version of Windows becomes unsupported, I'll bite the bullet and make the Linux install into my primary one. I think people like me are the real first line that's most likely to switch - techy people who play games (which had so far kept them on Windows) and that suffer firsthand at Microsoft's attempts to get them directly in addition to already being treated horribly by default. This group is less afraid of changing things up and has more incentives to switch. But if we talk of gamers in general, it may take a while until a meaningful number of them switch over, even though they are far more motivated than the average PC user. Even though they're the prime candidates, it's going to be a very, very steep uphill battle.
- firefoxd 10mo agoThe problem isn't just that new installs will require this, but if you are on Windows 11, there are a hundred accidental ways to create a Microsoft account. Sometimes it's disguised as an update, or a sneaky notification. Sometimes it's onedrive, or you are trying to login via Edge. It reminds me of how Google was trying to trick us all into getting a Google+ account. MS: "One way or another, you are creating an account so help me God."
- beAbU 10mo agoI don't mind an MS account to be honest. My problem is that Windows fucks up my user name when I log in to my account when setting up a new machine. I drives me up the wall. My name is Daniel. My name on my MS account is Daniel. When I log in to a new Windows machine, the fucking thing decides my user name, and therefore my user folder, is "Danie". This is NOT my name, it's a different name that is not mine and it makes my computer grating to use every time. For some retarded reason, windows does not allow online account users to have a username longer than 5 chars, so it goes and truncates whatever the first name it gets back from the mothership when logging in. A local account does not have this issue.
- calmbonsai 10mo agoFWIW, as a former NTSE, I abandoned Windows in the late '90s when, within a 2 year period they: - Embedded IE making multi-version browser testing an absolute PITA - Rolled out WGA and screwed up bulk-licensing and multi-tier/versioned licensing for cluster operations and emerging mobile hardware - Allowed arbitrary code to be embedded in the registry
- ChrisArchitect 10mo agoRelated raging about this nerd/tech-niche problem 3 months ago: Microsoft is plugging more holes that let you use Windows 11 without MS account https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45497384 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45497384
- bob1029 10mo agoWindows activation has been a game of CTF for me since the early 2000s. I've got more than enough resources to pay for a Win11 license many times over. But I refuse to. Part is something approximating "I've already paid the windows tax 30+ times" but it's more than this. The UX regression from the XP era is shocking when you put things side by side. I happily paid $500 for a perpetual VS2026 license just a few days ago, but I'll continue to use things like massgrave for windows no matter how big my cash pile grows. I know it's the same company, but it's really not about the money. It's about sending some kind of a message regarding software quality. If you could give me an experience identical to VS on Linux I would move in an instant. But it simply doesn't exist. It's frankly not even close after all these years. VSCode is like the IDE "we have at home". Linux is a great target for many things now (e.g., steam deck), but using it as my daily driver development platform is still a non-starter. I know it's possible to make anything work on Linux, but that's not a very compelling argument for me anymore. It's got to work well. The experience can't suck ass. Even the steam deck was a herky jerky OOBE with WiFi/networking woes and 5-6 reboots to get it going. That's with Gabe Newell ~in charge using billions of dollars to make it go smoothly. I don't have access to those kinds of resources so I figure why even try. I've already thrown ~5k hours into the Linux hole over my lifetime. I don't think it's an investment that has paid off very well for me. Linus himself has acknowledged that the win32 ABI is the most stable and well designed he's ever seen. Why wouldn't I follow his advice?
- einsteinx2 10mo agoAs someone who has never really liked Visual Studio compared to alternatives (especially the JetBrains suite), I’m genuinely curious what experience you’re getting that you can’t get elsewhere?
- bob1029 10mo agoSame as the win32 ABI - stability over time. I've been able to build up two decades worth of muscle memory because the product has been very consistent over my career. Rider has "only" been on the market for 8 years. I've actually tried this and many of the alternatives. It's not that they're invalid tool choices. They just don't stick for me. Relearning things like hotkeys for step [in/out/over] is a nonstarter. I don't really have patience to customize a complex tool like VS or Rider. I've made a point of getting comfortable with the default settings so that no employer or client can ruffle my feathers with locked down machines, etc. You can put me on a completely vanilla windows+VS dev box in an air gapped environment and I would be as happy as a clam.
- Kon5ole 10mo agoI think Windows has improved as a basic OS tremendously in the past decade, with things like WSL, winget, terminal, storage spaces, fancyzones and such. The components of perhaps the best general purpose OS available right now are there, but they are buried behind a crappy car-salesman tabloid-press upsell circus that is frankly unbearable to some users. What I don't get is why MS refuses to let you pay to avoid the circus - It's like a streaming service that only has the ad-financed tier! I get that the people who care are a minority, but charging that minority a high purchase price for a just-the-os version of windows seems like easy money and would let them dodge all the badwill by presenting a choice. Right now the official option is simply "suffer the circus or leave". It should at least be amended with "or pay".
- einsteinx2 10mo agoMy feeling is they would never do that because it would implicitly admit that stuff is bad and people don’t want it so much they’re willing to pay a lot to remove it.
- VortexLain 10mo agoSo, how airgapped systems are supposed to get activated from now on?
- immibis 10mo agoYou pay a lot of money for a special contract, or you plug it into the internet. Whether from incompetence or malice, Microsoft would strongly prefer you did the latter.
- shevy-java 10mo agoMicrosoft really wants to alienate users.
- scotty79 10mo agoI wonder how PC gaming is going to look in few years with Nvidia slashing GPU supply, RAM manufacturing going down the ai drain and Windows becomming even less attractive than it used to be. Maybe next AAA stuff will start to target ARM and natively ARM OSes?
- dent9 10mo agoJust get a Mac and stop worrying about this stuff
- 65 10mo agoSeriously. Hacker News is so adamant on Linux it's almost comical. I mean, I get it... this is a site for developers. But I'm a developer and MacOS is great for writing software, the hardware is better than everything else on the market by far, and I don't have to mess around with my computer just to get certain drivers or whatever to work. I spent $1000 on a Macbook Air, it instantly works with zero headache, has way more app support than Linux, is super fast, and so on. If I want to play games, I bought the cheapest gaming laptop from Best Buy for like $500 a few years ago and only use that computer to play games.
- scotty79 10mo agoIt's a bit wild that I can't use Windows 10 on my new hardware because manufacturers didn't bother to make the drivers. With how much peiple hate Win11 it seems like a rushed move. One was laptop sound driver, the other was wifi motherboard driver.
- einsteinx2 10mo agoI thought windows 10 and 11 used the same drivers though. Did they change something in the driver stack?
- scotty79 10mo agoThat was my assumption as well. However it was proven false in these two cases.
- einsteinx2 10mo agoThat’s actually wild that they managed to break driver compatibility in an OS that’s basically a point release upgrade with a coat of paint!
- nly 10mo agoI still can't get over that when I go to the "Accounts" screen of Windows 11 control panel there's no option to add a new local account.
- anthk 10mo agoPhones with propietary spyware and bloatware and with the root user locked. Desktop OSes with enforced updates overriding your settings and choices, up to the point to reinstall back the same adware.
- FloorEgg 10mo agoI've been a windows user my whole life, only interacting with Linux servers remotely via shell. I've become quite familiar with command line Linux, but never used a graphical operating system. My next PC will be Linux.
- wiether 10mo agoHaving gone through the same route, just a tip: try different desktop environments. Have I discovered KDE sooner, it wouldn't have taken me so long to make the switch. I just hated all the other DE and 5 minutes with KDE, I was deeply in love.
- 4k93n2 10mo agodistrosea is good place to start if youre not sure what you want yet. it runs full distros online and you only need a browser to connect to them. its a quick way to get a feel for which desktop would suit you best https://distrosea.com https://distrosea.com
- doublerabbit 10mo agohttp://distrowatch.org/ http://distrowatch.org/ As well has great resources in to Linux distributions.
- 1970-01-01 10mo agoKills one way. They engineered activation as a hydra. There's several other options remaining.
- lauraorchid 10mo agoI love how people keep saying it’ll be the year of linux desktop with this news. While Windows, keeps thriving in the desktop market. Because one, most computer users want simplicity. Two, pc manufacturers bundle Windows because of reason one. Three, they want a familiar interface. Four, windows license is also bundled in pre-built PC and laptops. Five, even if someone were to build a PC themselves, because microsoft know people pirate windows so much, they actually allow people to use windows without activating! What feature they lose without license? Personalization. That’s it! And six, ordinary people never watch/read tech related channels/websites to begin with knowing what linux even is! Despite i’m a linux user (in the past, now on servers) myself, i won’t say “it’s the year of linux desktop.” Because people refuse to learn new things. Oh my god. *sigh.