14 ms·

Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

166 points by randycupertino 1y ago

Refreeze5224 1y ago
If RFK Jr says it's true, that's how I know it isn't. They go to great lengths to point out they're "using gold-standard science", which also makes me certain they aren't. They can't be, because none of this is about autism or science, it's about pushing their political agenda.
- ekianjo 1y ago
  > that's how I know it isn't. Until you have a controlled study on pregnant women who use and don't use the drug, you won't really know for sure.
  - jeroenhd 1y ago
    Until we have a controlled study, we don't really know if using nouns causes autism either. We don't know what causes autism so everything is suspect. https://news.ki.se/no-link-between-paracetamol-use-during-pregnancy-and-autism-or-adhd-in-children https://news.ki.se/no-link-between-paracetamol-use-during-pr... concludes that there is no link between acetaminophen and autism based on existing research. https://ehjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12940-025-01208-0 https://ehjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12940-... concludes the opposite. I'm not qualified to determine which of these studies is more reliable, but the evidence is far from clear if multiple literature studies state the opposite conclusion. News articles seem to state that the conclusions are clear as day but the same websites were equally sure of the opposite last year. I'll wait or reliable sources of medical information, which the US government no longer is, to comment on these papers rather than assume whatever paper made the HN frontpage last is the final result of the scientific debate.
    - ekianjo 1y ago
      > We don't know what causes autism so everything is suspect. Obviously what goes into your body should be suspected first, whether it's food, pollutants, or medical interventions.
      - crote 1y ago
        Why? Should we first suspect carrots of making people grow red hair, suspect eggs of causing pregnancy, and suspect Left Twix of causing left-handedness? We don't know the cause of autism. We do know that autism has a heritable component, with significant rates of both siblings having it (which could be explained by environmental factors) and both parent and child having it (which cannot be explained by environmental factors). Surely it would make a lot more sense to suspect a genetic component first?
        ekianjo 1y ago
        You don't get a 100x increase in a lifetime by using a genetic explanation, sorry
  - kashunstva 1y ago
    > Until you have a controlled study on pregnant women I wouldn’t look for a prospective randomized controlled trial of this anytime soon. Hard to imagine an IRB approving such a study. Observational studies do suggest a small but statistically significant association between acetaminophen use in pregnancy and ASD, but the relative risk increase is small, because both the effect size and baseline risk are small.
    - ekianjo 1y ago
      Isn't the baseline risk for autism 1 in 30 presently?
- stuaxo 1y ago
  Why is he so against medicine?
  - flouridist 1y ago
    [dead]
  - CharlesW 1y ago
    Because that stance has been very beneficial for him financially and politically, ever since his pivot from legitimate and respected environmental lawyer to anti-vaxxer. He transitioned after receiving incredibly positive feedback for amplifying conspiratorial narratives while riding the coattails of the infamous "thimerosal causes autism" panic of the 2000s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadly_Immunity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadly_Immunity
  - sixothree 1y ago
    That's how he got where he is today.
  - SpicyLemonZest 1y ago
    He explained his views in detail in his confirmation hearing. He believes that pharmaceuticals in general are dangerous and overused, "the third-largest cause of death in our country after heart attacks and cancers" in his words, and wants healthcare to focus more on healthy food than on medicine.
    - krapp 1y ago
      > (...) and wants healthcare to focus more on healthy food than on medicine. This is the guy who caught a worm in his brain from eating roadkill?
  - esbranson 1y ago
    Same reason he's anti-fish.
- Spivak 1y ago
  Which is what? Lots of this admin's actions have made sense once you know the underlying agenda—thanks project 2025 for spelling a lot of it out—but this one has me baffled. Taking on the woke… tylenol industry?
  - avalys 1y ago
    It’s simple, RFKj is a well-intentioned idiot.
    - Spivak 1y ago
      Looking around for sources from before the world ended I can find quite a few reputable studies that show the correlation. The effect size is small ~0.4% in absolute risk but statistically detectable. Like okay, sure. Doctors already tell pregnant women to limit NSAIDs. So… we keep doing that. Mission accomplished?
      - kashunstva 1y ago
        The advice to avoid NSAIDs in pregnancy (and contraindication in the third trimester) doesn’t cover acetaminophen, though, because it’s not regarded as an NSAID (different mechanism of action and minimal anti-inflammatory effects.) From a recent meta analysis, a total of 6 studies meeting the inclusion criteria addressed the association between acetaminophen exposure in utero and ASD. The odds ratio for the aggregated data was 1.19 which puts the 0.2-0.4% relative risk increase depending on what baseline incidence you assume (along the lines of your estimate.) If you take the baseline incidence to be 1% then I calculate the NNH - number needed to harm, at 533, meaning you have to expose 533 pregnant women to acetaminophen to observe one additional case of ASD. Given that the current public health administration of this era in the U.S. operates by seat-of-the-pants guidance rather than statistical evidence, the statistics are irrelevant to them. My advice would be that health care providers caring for pregnant women have an informed discussion about the risk and call it a day.
- y-curious 1y ago
  While you're probably right in the outcome, you probably shouldn't argue based on the genetic fallacy[1] 1: https://www.scribbr.co.uk/fallacy/the-genetic-fallacy/#:~:text=The%20genetic%20fallacy%20is%20the,the%20truth%20of%20the%20claim. https://www.scribbr.co.uk/fallacy/the-genetic-fallacy/#:~:te...
  - SpicyLemonZest 1y ago
    There's a threshold where you just don't have a choice. He's made a number of obvious and verifiable health lies - most recently, he described how he can diagnose children with "mitochondrial challenges" by watching them walk around. I have a job, I don't have time to individually investigate all his health claims, the heuristic that he's a liar and everything he says is wrong will have to suffice.
    - aeternum 1y ago
      What's the primary factor contributing to metabolic syndrome in children? And are you really claiming you can't determine that factor by looking?
      - SpicyLemonZest 1y ago
        I don't understand the response. Kennedy didn't say "factor" or "metabolic syndrome", he said "I see these kids that are just overburdened with mitochondrial challenges". If all he meant was that many kids are visibly overweight, wouldn't he have just said that?
        aeternum 1y ago
        The charitable interpretation is that it is simply a more sensitive and accurate way to say that. It puts aside all the big is beautiful and similar takes and points to the fact that many American kids, especially those in certain parts of the country are now afflicted with metabolic syndrome (which is closely associated with mitochondrial disfunction). It is well-known that overloading mitochondria with sugar is quite bad for them and a key contributor to type 2 diabetes. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10036395/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10036395/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32428560/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32428560/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4408906/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4408906/
- add-sub-mul-div 1y ago
  > If RFK Jr says it's true, that's how I know it isn't. And one of the reasons you don't let morons take over your party is that if they ever are right, they won't be believed. If these are actual risks with Tylenol then oops, that take is being lumped in with the antivax hysteria.
  - esbranson 1y ago
    > don't let morons take over your party Oops for sure. Like if someone says school closures won't have an effect on infection rates, not only will you not be believed, you'll be "anti-science", whatever that means.
- kristianp 1y ago
  > it's about pushing their political agenda. I've seen this kind of thing mentioned before. As a non USA person, I don't know what the deal is with RFK and autism. Wasn't it vaccines last month?
  - reverius42 1y ago
    It's about pushing general distrust of the medical/pharmaceutical establishment, in favor of folk wisdom, home remedies, and anything "natural".
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
John23832 1y ago
This man says everything causes autism.
- more_corn 1y ago
  Woah, what if EVERYTHING causes autism?!
- barbazoo 1y ago
  everything This man says causes autism.
spchampion2 1y ago
Judging from the comments I've seen, nobody believes this because RFK has completely shot his credibility, and I don't blame them either. But it turns out there may actually be some emerging evidence to support this. This recent Harvard meta-analysis [1] from just last month looked at 46 different studies and suggested that there may actually be something happening here although it's not conclusive. Correlation but not yet causation. Nobody should be making policy on this yet, but it's the kind of thing that I would allocate some research dollars to if I hadn't just fired all of the competent researchers. 1 - https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/using-acetaminophen-during-pregnancy-may-increase-childrens-autism-and-adhd-risk/ https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/using-acetaminophen-during-pre...
- adamredwoods 1y ago
  That is a retrospective meta study, which leads to lots of speculation, but little actual proof of causation. >> The researchers noted that while steps should be taken to limit acetaminophen use, the drug is important for treating maternal fever and pain, which can also harm children. also: >> Baccarelli noted in the “competing interests” section of the paper that he has served as an expert witness for a plaintiff in a case involving potential links between acetominophen use during pregnancy and neurodevelopmental disorders. Huh, but digging in a little more does show some stronger studies... hmmmm... https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6822099/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6822099/
- defrost 1y ago
  I read the study and TBH it's more or less expected that a correlation would exist between increased NDD diagnoses and prescriptions common to pregnant women in regions with increased NDD diagnoses. Being afforded better care during pregnancy should correlate with better attention (and diagnosis of conditions) to offspring. If one were cynical one might say this was a good call by Andrea Baccarelli, the Dean of the Faculty, to commission a meta study looking for correlations between common treatments and NDD diagnoses in the current climate of funding going toward whomever can put forward a thread to follow in pursuit of autism.
- CogitoCogito 1y ago
adamredwoods 1y ago
[flagged]
- dang 1y ago
  Ok, but please don't fulminate on HN. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. You may not owe people who you feel are disgusting quacks better, but you owe this community better if you're participating in it.
susiecambria 1y ago
Not specific to tylenol and autism, but I think important: RFK Jr. will be issuing findings using "gold-standard science" and hold up the findings as definitive (as proof, etc.) at the same time that he completely minimizes and bemoans current scientific processes. While we may be able to tell the difference between RFK's BS science and real science, what does this mean for everyone else? Especially because RFK Jr. does not trust science?
- foxglacier 1y ago
  Nobody should have been trusting science to begin with. Maybe it will help to show science-believers that they should be more cautious.
  - ahtihn 1y ago
    What's the alternative? What should one trust instead?
    - Der_Einzige 1y ago
      No one. This world is radically subjective and all appearances are deceiving. Even solipsism doesn’t work because you can’t trust yourself! We live in Cartesian radical subjectivity - and no cogito to save you from the evil demon.
    - foxglacier 1y ago
      Evaluate risks and benefits as best you can, informed by whatever science seems to show. Life's complicated and nobody can provide simple correct instructions on the right way to do everything, or even anything. Public health messages are an attempt to do that but they're unreliable and sometimes intentionally misleading or wrong because their purpose is to influence people's behavior, not to be correct.
mountainriver 1y ago
It’s insane that the RFK crowd continues to not consider that the increase is just due to better diagnoses. I wouldn’t entirely rule out there being environmental factors, but from the data I could gather it seems that acetaminophen usage has decreased in pregnancy over the last several decades in the US, while autism has increased. This all seems to go back to the boomer generation believing the world was simpler when they grew up and that it was somehow ruined. That may be true about some things but the reality of their generation is they had no idea what people were going through, and didn’t have the language to describe it
- johnbellone 1y ago
  Better diagnosis and that autism covers a wider range of symptoms.
jiggawatts 1y ago
If he’s right, we’ll know before the end of Trump’s term. How much are people willing to bet that the incidence of autism will remain unchanged and the administration will disavow everything. “Nobody knew autism was so complicated.” — future Trump, probably.
- Voultapher 1y ago
  I think you are severely underestimating the mental gymnastics these people routinely go through to never be wrong about anything. When you go to the doctor because you child is on the spectrum. "Fill out this form Mam", on it is the question "Did you take Tylenol during the pregnancy?" - You check "Yes" -> Your fault, should have known better. No help for you. - You check "No" -> Well then it can't be autism, that's "scientifically" proven. No help for you.
- D-Coder 1y ago
  > “Nobody knew autism was so complicated.” — future Trump, probably. "Autism rates have gone down 500% during my r/e/i/g/n/ administration!"
- jackvalentine 1y ago
  They’re going to mess with the data to make whatever story they tell ‘right’.
crote 1y ago
Just one slight problem: Tylenol was introduced in 1955. Autism was first scientifically documented in 1926. If Tylenol causes autism, how did those parents in the 1920s get their hands on it? Also, wouldn't there been a clear link between Tylenol sales and the occurrence of autism? Where is the data showing that the adoption of Tylenol in the 1960s resulted in a rise in autism, and that the "rise" of autism in the 1990s is linked to an increase in Tylenol use?
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- BJones12 1y ago
  > If Tylenol causes autism, how did those parents in the 1920s get their hands on it? The claim is that Tylenol is a factor that increases the risk of autism. It is not the cause of 100% of all cases. That said, the first synthesis of Paracetamol in the USA was Johns Hopkins in 1877, so maybe the answer is they went to Baltimore.
  - yencabulator 1y ago
    Now do Tylenol sales kicking up in the 60s.
burnt-resistor 1y ago
Someone needs to find a new brain worm for the heroin junkie who dabbled in environmental law that gets him doing the right thing™ like: - going after quacks who promote bleach, horse dewormers (maybe that's the problem), and raw milk - adopt the precautionary principle - approve EU sunscreen compounds without animal testing and banning reef/human unsafe ones - leave science to scientists - increase regulatory oversight over food manufacturing, additive, and supply chain regulation so there aren't canyons of non-enforcement or exclusions between FDA and USDA Or, maybe, this is really radical... find someone else competent to do the job.
sandworm101 1y ago
Coorelation does not mean causation. I remember an old study linking ultrasounds to lefthandedness. It was legit. Families with access to ultrasounds lived in countries/areas where lefthandedness was more culturally accepted, places where it was not drilled out of kids. The study was correct, but anyone touting it as causation was totally incorrect. Fyi, sharks are way more likely to attack people with australian accents. Never go swimming with an auzzi.
- theoreticalmal 1y ago
  I had an ultrasound and I’m left handed. I finally know why!
- adamors 1y ago
  You shoudln’t even be entertaining this lunacy with any response. Anything coming out of the RFK jr health department is batshit.
  - sandworm101 1y ago
    He was legitimately put into a position of power by the american political system. And this is an article by the BBC, probably the most respected news source on the planet. Crazy is now the norm, the leading voice. It must be confronted.
    - lupire 1y ago
      "legitimately" is a stretch, given all the information that has come fourth in the past year.
    - mannykannot 1y ago
      Your first point is correct, but it (like the second one) has no bearing on the issue of the medical soundness of the department's positions and policy.
      - sandworm101 1y ago
rendall 1y ago
Well, time to pick up Tylenol shares on the dip.
- giveita 1y ago
  Maybe? Looks like it hasn't performed well over 5 years. I'd still rather hold something that I wanna hold for a long time.
  - jrockway 1y ago
    Johnson & Johnson split off their consumer pharmaceuticals into a new company (Kenvue) in 2023, so there isn't 5 years of stock price data.
- ksherlock 1y ago
  I considered that when the news hit but didn't. Even if there's nothing to the report and it's forgotten in a week, that sound you heard Friday was tens of thousands of trail lawyers jizzing in their pants. $1.8 billion powerball ain't got nothing on the payday they're looking at.
sofixa 1y ago
Good time to buy. While the cult might take this to heart and stop using Tylenol alltogether, there will be lawsuits to protect the brand and the company, and considering the lack of proof, in the end they will suceed.
- lyu07282 1y ago
  They are molesting the money again, but the company can just pivot to drinkable bleech beverages marketed on joe rogan, in the end an evidence-free health care system might be way more profitable in the short term.
jgalt212 1y ago
The entire medical community is doing their impression of Shaggy, i.e. "it wasn't me!" But there are thousands of suffering parents and children and this lack of empathy really does nothing for no one. Another hand-wavy response I have heard is that given the new Autism Spectrum diagnosis, many more kids are now diagnosed with autism. That being said, none has even come up with a reasonably derived estimate saying that of the 5X increase in autism over the last 25 years, we can confidently say that nX of this is due to changing diagnosis standards. And if n is anything less than 5, the medical community has work to do in solving this problem and not passing the blame and accusing suffering parents of being crazy.
- stefan_ 1y ago
  So we do the tried and true solution of listening to the deranged quack?
  - jmclnx 1y ago
    I do not usually side with huge corporations, but in this case I hope Tylenol drags that quack into court and make him prove the report. We all know he cannot prove anything, even if Tylenol loses, ensure they cost RFK jr lots of $ in defending himself.
    - alchemist1e9 1y ago
      Does RFK Jr have a track recording of winning his cases or losing them?
      - forgotoldacc 1y ago
        Whether he wins or loses is irrelevant. This administration has a track record of ignoring judgements they don't like and facing zero consequences.
        alchemist1e9 1y ago
        His prior legal track record has no relevance to his current work?
nilamo 1y ago
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- vasco 1y ago
  Maybe I never take enough but it's also such a weak painkiller that I always prefer to just feel how it feels and sense if I'm getting better or worse. And that is without believing it's super bad for me, just doesn't make sense as a trade-off.
  - op00to 1y ago
    Some times advil works. Some times aspirin works. Some times Tylenol works. Some times none of them work. There’s all kinds of substances that are available freely that can kill you if you take too much. NSAIDS, Imodium, DXM, iron supplements.
    - viraptor 1y ago
      Water. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication Meat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_toxicity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_toxicity
      - op00to 1y ago
        I don’t know about water, but Hydrohydroxic acid is a solvent for ANYTHING! That can’t be good.
- adamors 1y ago
  It’s the only painkiller allowed for pregnant women, so this leads me to believe this is some other form of conspiracy to control women (since the science does’t exist, it obviously doesn’t cause autism)
- loloquwowndueo 1y ago
  “May or may not cause autism”.
deleted 1y ago
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elric 1y ago
Was replying to a commented which was downvoted to death entirely unfairly, so I'll paste my reply as a new comment: Paracetamol/acetaminophen (the active ingredient in tylenol) is super toxic to the liver. Lots of people overdose on it, some by accident and some deliberately. As little as FOUR GRAMS can cause jaundice and fuck up your liver. If you have a fever, taking 1 gram every couple of hours might seem entirely reasonable, but it can kill you. Regardless of any autism links, it's good to be careful with this stuff.
- frodo8sam 1y ago
  Taking one gram every 5-6 hours for a maximum of 4 gram/day IS entirely reasonable. I don't know how you jumped from "it's dangerous to take in to high amounts, even 4 times the recommended dose is dangerous" to "the recommened dose is dangerous". When taken correctly it is very safe and had fewer side effects then NSAIDs like ibuprofen.
- hshdhdhj4444 1y ago
  I don’t understand these responses. A person in power makes unsubstantiated (and often disproven claims), and makes major decisions that affect all our lives based on those claims. And the response ignores the fact that the people in power are making decisions based on complete nonsense and pointing to something fairly trivial that everyone knows about anyways. I mean, I haven’t been to a doctor who hasn’t pointed out that there are limits to how much acetaminophen one can take. There’s a reason anything above a 650mg dose is prescription only. Theirs is a reason if you’re suffering from a severe fever doctors will give you both acetaminophen and ibuprofen and have you alternate them. If there is a tiny minority that is apparently unaware of the fact that Tylenol in high doses can have adverse effects or at the very least not even aware of the fact that most medications need to be taken as prescribed or within the suggested limits, that’s a minuscule part of the problem relative to people in power making decisions based on unproven claims.
- afavour 1y ago
  So in summary: taking 4x the recommended dose of a medication is dangerous? How many other medications would that apply to? Countless, I imagine. That’s why we have dosages on every bottle.
aynyc 1y ago
Don’t you wish we have a short sell reporting data so we can check if people in the know already shorted the stock?
- PartiallyTyped 1y ago
  Unusual whales does a lot of reporting of this nature. One could also take a look at pages like cheddar which track what they claim is unusual flow in options.
- yareally 1y ago
  If it's already in the news, it's already too late to short. News events tend to quickly reverse as well so I'd be looking for a long position at a support level
  - 1oooqooq 1y ago
    he's talking about the person who created the news...
_mlbt 1y ago
Why are doctors telling women that it's okay to take Tylenol during pregnancy in the first place? Everything they put in their bodies can have an effect on the baby so medication for pregnant mothers should be severely limited. Why haven't we learned from the Thalidomide scandal? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide_scandal Tylenol only helps for minor aches and pains that frankly, pregnant mothers should just deal with for the good of their unborn child. The risk is not worth it. RFK Jr. isn't right on everything, but he's not wrong on everything either and it's refreshing seeing someone head HHS that isn't in big pharma's pocket for a change.
- hshdhdhj4444 1y ago
  Yeah, it’s refreshing seeing someone not in Big Pharma’s pocket. Much better that he be in Big Wellness’s pocket which is an order of magnitude bigger, unregulated, and doesn’t need to provide evidence for their claims.
  - _mlbt 1y ago
    Is he in Big Wellness's pocket? I hadn't heard anything about that. Who's paying him off? He's a Kennedy with a net worth of about $15 million so he doesn't exactly need the money. He strikes me as an authentic true believer in his cause, but he could just be a really convincing con man, so I'd love to learn more about this. Please link to some credible sources showing that he's being paid off by someone.
    - exe34 1y ago
      > doesn't exactly need the money. has this ever stopped anybody?
    - Workaccount2 1y ago
      He literally just repeats whatever trends the crunchy moms on tiktok are latching onto. He's definitely not getting paid, but he's certainly carrying the banner and basking in the praise...
    - 1y ago
docstryder 1y ago
It is the safest painkiller currently available. Ibuprofen can cause gut bleeding and renal issues if overdosed on. We all know about opiates. Some facts - typical adult dose is 1g. Max suggested cap on the drug label is 3g per day (about 6 pills at usual 500mg dose). You need to take 10g (20 pills) to be at real risk of hepatotoxicity. So 10 times the typical dose is when you have overdose effects. (basically 20 pills per day vs 2 pills per day). Not your "wildly unsafe at slightly above usage levels" AT ALL (as someone posted on here) This is not harmless - this might cause someone to take more dangerous painkillers when acetaminophen (tylenol) might have safely helped them. The autism stuff is plainly false and disproved.
- s5300 1y ago
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- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  I'm sorry but as a non American I can only think about Rehab Officer Tylenol Jones from the Idiocracy movie since that's the first time I heard about Tylenol without knowing it's a drug, and in the movie everyone had well known American brands as their names due to overreach of corporate marketing into society, but that part of the satire went over my head as a European kid back then, thinking Tylenol was just a person's name and not a drug. I wonder if Americans know how much of their society and culture bled incompletely into other countries via movies. Like for example after communism fell the youth here got hooked on American rap and hip-hop so we were using slang from those songs like friends calling each other the N word without knowing the context behind it since that's how black rappers addressed each other and they were rock stars here.
  - triyambakam 1y ago
    There's a Rammstein song, „we all live in Amerika, Coca-Cola, wunderbar!”
  - KPGv2 1y ago
    >I wonder if Americans know how much of their society and culture bled incompletely into other countries via movies. the unbridled joy when a non american sees a red Solo cup irl for the first time "i thought it was just a thing in movies!!"
daveoc64 1y ago
I'm always surprised at the hostility to Acetaminophen on HN (or Paracetamol as we call it here in the UK). It's one of the most commonly used medicines in the UK - and certainly the most popular painkiller. YouGov even did a survey confirming that - https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/Results2012071820painkillers.pdf https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/docume... The safety aspects of it are not something that gets raised in the UK much - other than suicide attempts, which are going to happen no matter what medicine you use. Probably the biggest risk comes from people not realising that other medicines (e.g. for cold and flu) often include it, so they double up on a dose.
- zwnow 1y ago
  Its so popular people will take it for mild inconveniences, which is absolutely not what you should do.
  - daveoc64 1y ago
    Why not?
    - zwnow 1y ago
      Stresses the liver, also if its used frequently for mild inconveniences you should maybe go to the doctor, as frequent headaches or stuff like that can hint to more severe stuff.
      - epcoa 1y ago
        It does not stress the liver at recommended doses. Plenty of people get frequent headaches and other aches that have no other severe stuff going on, or really anything that needs to be treated more than symptomatically. Scheduled tylenol is an effective element of a pain regimen for many people.
        zwnow 1y ago
protonbob 1y ago
There really are risks. It's just not worth it during pregnancy. The pain killing effects of tylenol aren't worth the potential risks during pregnancy. https://www.mountsinai.org/about/newsroom/2025/mount-sinai-study-supports-evidence-that-prenatal-acetaminophen-use-may-be-linked-to-increased-risk-of-autism-and-adhd https://www.mountsinai.org/about/newsroom/2025/mount-sinai-s...
- syntaxing 1y ago
  What’s the alternative? Pregnant people are people too. They can’t take Ibuprofen, or opioids, or even Tylenol now.
  - protonbob 1y ago
    Yeah my wife is also pregnant and sometimes it is really tough on her but she doesn't use any medication other than baby aspirin for blood pressure. The alternative is exercise, anti-inflammatory foods, and also realizing that it isn't just your body anymore and you can't hurt somebody else's chances for a very small amount of pain relief.
    - panarky 1y ago
      This is like saying "The risk of a traffic accident on the way to the hospital is unacceptable so I'll make her walk 12 miles to the hospital." Walking 12 miles is not only uncomfortable, it is also higher risk to Mom and baby than driving. You have to balance all the risks and benefits.
      - protonbob 1y ago
        Right. And the benefits for tylenol are small.
        deeviant 1y ago
        And the risks are infinitesimally smaller.
_mlbt 1y ago
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- loloquwowndueo 1y ago
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- add-sub-mul-div 1y ago
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- saubeidl 1y ago
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- viraptor 1y ago
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- aceazzameen 1y ago
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buellerbueller 1y ago
ugh, i am allergic to ibuprofen and aspirin (all NSAIDs to be precise). tylenol is my only OTC option.
- syntaxing 1y ago
  You’re not going to become autistic all of sudden after taking Tylenol. The claim is that it effects the fetus during pregnancy
  - wizzwizz4 1y ago
    And the claim is probably bogus. If it were true, we'd expect other evidence (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45147119 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45147119) that hasn't showed up. More likely, it's an artefact of autism diagnosis rates varying in different populations, and maybe something to do with autistic mothers' fucky pain tolerances. More likely to take painkillers + more likely to get your child assessed for autism = observed (tiny) correlation, even in the absence of any causation.
  - buellerbueller 1y ago
    I am not worried about autism, ya goof! there has repeatedly been shown to be no link, and i am already autistic. I am worried RFKJ will make tyelnol harder to get.
JCM9 1y ago
When something like this happens there’s a non-zero chance some slimy hedge fund is behind this pushing conspiracy theories on gullible folks to tank a stock.
lukeaar 1y ago
The amount of anti-science hysteria and sexism in this comment section is abhorrent. I expected better from HN.
roody15 1y ago
https://ehjournal.biomedcentral.com/counter/pdf/10.1186/s12940-025-01208-0.pdf https://ehjournal.biomedcentral.com/counter/pdf/10.1186/s129... Data does appear to show a possible link, definitely at the least warrants further research.
- deleted 1y ago
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tsoukase 1y ago
Ibuprofen is NSAID (non steroid anti inflammatory), oaracetamol is not. Related but different. As long as autism, there can be no causative link. Millions have autism, billions take paracetamol. Autism has, like its cousin schizophrenia, a strong genetic-familial basis. Hardly any environmental factor increases the risk so much to be worrisome.
FrankWilhoit 1y ago
Who sold short? How big a bribe will be given to reverse this?
giardini 1y ago
We've known for years that tylenol affected thought processes: https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2019/03/30/acetaminophens_surprising_psychoactive_effects.html https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2019/03/30/acetaminoph...
- thehappypm 1y ago
  I don’t know why you’re being downvoted—this is a fascinating read!
kosma 1y ago
There is research correlating autism and mothers taking certain medications (painkillers, antidepressants). Since autism is hereditary, there is a significant chance that these mothers are autistic too. Autistic people have a vastly high risk of depression, and often have unusual pain thresholds, requiring more painkillers. I would not be surprised of the correlation was real, but the direction of action was reversed; after all, it's plausible that autism causes the need for taking more medication.
- jeffbee 1y ago
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- duskwuff 1y ago
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  - perching_aix 1y ago
    And so what doesn't make sense to you about those two sentences?
  - gpderetta 1y ago
    Reread the parent comment.
  - wizzwizz4 1y ago
    Polydactyly is both hereditary and acquired during development.
  - adrr 1y ago
    Sure it can. Type 2 diabetes is both hereditary and lifestyle/behavioral influenced . Same with cancer, if you have cancer in your family your risk of getting cancer is higher. I would say most medical issues are both. Heart disease, gout, obesity, hypertension,strokes,asthma etc.
    - duskwuff 1y ago
bentt 1y ago
Well this should be provable within about 5 years if this Tylenol is truly the cause. Let's just have a few states in the US eliminate Tylenol usage during pregnancy, and watch the autism disappear. Any volunteers?
- nxobject 1y ago
  At this stage, the entirety of the US is a sample of less-than-willing volunteers…
unglaublich 1y ago
[flagged]
- apparent 1y ago
  When I'm his age, I'd be happy to be as fit as he is. I will concede he sounds like death, though.
bitwize 1y ago
I've been talking about this for a little while: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45006936 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45006936 I'll take RFK being the stopped clock on this over him causing yet more harm to the medical community and to Americans' health.
- macintux 1y ago
  The problem is that RFK, like Trump, has effectively created a situation where anything they say is immediately discredited by a huge portion of the population.
paulvnickerson 1y ago
Here's the relevant study from earlier this year: https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/using-acetaminophen-during-pregnancy-may-increase-childrens-autism-and-adhd-risk/ https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/using-acetaminophen-during-pre... It's a meta-analysis that considered a bunch of individual studies, their effect size, and their quality. It claims that Tylenol use has increased alongside a 20-fold increase in autism rates, suggesting causation, and recommends immediate efforts to reduce Tylenol use during pregnancy. One objection that I've seen is that the lead author, Dr. Baccarelli, has a conflict of interest because he was an expert witness in a lawsuit about acetaminophen and neurodevelopmental disorders. If you think about it though, someone knowledgeable enough to write this paper is exactly the kind of person you'd want to serve as an expert witness.
- crooked-v 1y ago
  I'm extremely suspicious of anything that looks at 'an increase in autism rates' without considering the same factors that have gone into there being 'more' left-handed people over the past 50 years or so. There are a lot of people in the past who 'weren't left handed' because they were punished as children if they showed left-handed behavior, and that's still a whole lot less stigmatized than autism.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- janice1999 1y ago
  > If you think about it though, someone knowledgeable enough to write this paper is exactly the kind of person you'd want to serve as an expert witness. Maybe, but the same was also true of the now disgraced Andrew Wakefield, although his conflict of interest was even greater since he didn't reveal his funding before publishing his original paper.
- philjohn 1y ago
  Has the study stratified for improved diagnosis? When I was a child in the 80's teachers weren't looking for the telltale signs, but you better believe there were autistic poeople, they just weren't diagnosed.
johnbellone 1y ago
There's a big difference between "using Tylenol may increase the risk of autism" and "Tylenol causes autism". If this study is accurate, it merely links the two together, and does not provide the reason. The problem with RFK is he's using it as a way to appease his own base to justify an anti-vaccination and anti-science agenda.
rconti 1y ago
Buy the dip?
dwattttt 1y ago
I can't wait for autism diagnosis to be linked to psychologists & paediatricians, and their subsequent banning.
ipv6ipv4 1y ago
Up until yesterday it was vaccines. Now it’s acetaminophen, and nobody is batting an eyelash at the about face.
- nxobject 1y ago
  The discussion about vaccines has been toxified in blue states - may as well throw out another reason to keep the crunchy skeptics on board.
s3graham 1y ago
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2817406 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2817406 seems like a good review.
deleted 1y ago
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deepsquirrelnet 1y ago
> That report will also suggest a medicine derived from folate – a water-soluble vitamin – can be used to treat symptoms of the developmental disorder in some people, according to the Journal. I think folate supplementation is generally already a fairly standard recommendation during pregnancy, since deficiency is linked to significant neural tube defects during pregnancy (eg CDC [1]). It's at least interesting that folate-derived medicines may also treat symptoms. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/folic-acid/about/index.html#:~:text=About%20Folic%20Acid%20*%20Folic%20acid%20is,serious%20birth%20defects%20called%20neural%20tube%20defects. https://www.cdc.gov/folic-acid/about/index.html#:~:text=Abou...
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esbranson 1y ago
Harvard study: the science is inconclusive and more research is needed.[1] News outlets: no credible scientific evidence. Uh oh spaghettios. The more the leftwing "resists" the more their "science" self-image will disconnect with reality. Like most things with this administration, I think that's the real goal. [1] 14 August 2025 in BMC Environmental Health. 27 of 46 studies reported a positive association between prenatal acetaminophen and neurodevelopmental disorders like autism and ADHD.
wkat4242 1y ago
I wonder if this hating on autism is part of the regime's focus on loyalty. Autistic people tend to make their own plans and are much more independent. I'd never be able to follow orders in an army for example. Whereas the current administration is all about loyalty over facts. They even make the meteorological employees do a loyalty test now so they'll follow the narrative and not the science.
- nxobject 1y ago
  As someone who’s done work with the whole spectrum of ASD: it’ll be fascinating to see if the diagnosis gets weaponized eventually. Right now, MAGA seems to still like “Hi-IQ nerd disrupters”; but the administration would be perfectly happy to sell off an ally for political gain.
mikewarot 1y ago
This is about to cause a huge spike in child deaths due to Reye's syndrome. Parents will choose Aspirin to treat their child's fevers, despite warnings, because that's what they took as a kid, and it worked then. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reye_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reye_syndrome
nxobject 1y ago
My wife is already disproportionately denied pain management compared to me - I’d be very, very concerned about how this result gets implemented. But at least they figured out autism by September, right?
sandshaker_au 1y ago
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sandshaker_au 1y ago
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hcfman 1y ago
Can't we find a way to cure lawyerism? That's a terrible debilitating sickness. I expect that Kennedyism is also hereditary. Another one.

If RFK Jr says it's true, that's how I know it isn't. They go to great lengths to point out they're "using gold-standard science", which also makes me certain they aren't. They can't be, because none of this is about autism or science, it's about pushing their political agenda.

ekianjo 1y ago
> that's how I know it isn't. Until you have a controlled study on pregnant women who use and don't use the drug, you won't really know for sure.
- jeroenhd 1y ago
  Until we have a controlled study, we don't really know if using nouns causes autism either. We don't know what causes autism so everything is suspect. https://news.ki.se/no-link-between-paracetamol-use-during-pregnancy-and-autism-or-adhd-in-children https://news.ki.se/no-link-between-paracetamol-use-during-pr... concludes that there is no link between acetaminophen and autism based on existing research. https://ehjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12940-025-01208-0 https://ehjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12940-... concludes the opposite. I'm not qualified to determine which of these studies is more reliable, but the evidence is far from clear if multiple literature studies state the opposite conclusion. News articles seem to state that the conclusions are clear as day but the same websites were equally sure of the opposite last year. I'll wait or reliable sources of medical information, which the US government no longer is, to comment on these papers rather than assume whatever paper made the HN frontpage last is the final result of the scientific debate.
  - ekianjo 1y ago
    > We don't know what causes autism so everything is suspect. Obviously what goes into your body should be suspected first, whether it's food, pollutants, or medical interventions.
    - crote 1y ago
      Why? Should we first suspect carrots of making people grow red hair, suspect eggs of causing pregnancy, and suspect Left Twix of causing left-handedness? We don't know the cause of autism. We do know that autism has a heritable component, with significant rates of both siblings having it (which could be explained by environmental factors) and both parent and child having it (which cannot be explained by environmental factors). Surely it would make a lot more sense to suspect a genetic component first?
      - ekianjo 1y ago
        You don't get a 100x increase in a lifetime by using a genetic explanation, sorry
- kashunstva 1y ago
  > Until you have a controlled study on pregnant women I wouldn’t look for a prospective randomized controlled trial of this anytime soon. Hard to imagine an IRB approving such a study. Observational studies do suggest a small but statistically significant association between acetaminophen use in pregnancy and ASD, but the relative risk increase is small, because both the effect size and baseline risk are small.
  - ekianjo 1y ago
    Isn't the baseline risk for autism 1 in 30 presently?
stuaxo 1y ago
Why is he so against medicine?
- flouridist 1y ago
  [dead]
- CharlesW 1y ago
  Because that stance has been very beneficial for him financially and politically, ever since his pivot from legitimate and respected environmental lawyer to anti-vaxxer. He transitioned after receiving incredibly positive feedback for amplifying conspiratorial narratives while riding the coattails of the infamous "thimerosal causes autism" panic of the 2000s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadly_Immunity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadly_Immunity
- sixothree 1y ago
  That's how he got where he is today.
- SpicyLemonZest 1y ago
  He explained his views in detail in his confirmation hearing. He believes that pharmaceuticals in general are dangerous and overused, "the third-largest cause of death in our country after heart attacks and cancers" in his words, and wants healthcare to focus more on healthy food than on medicine.
  - krapp 1y ago
    > (...) and wants healthcare to focus more on healthy food than on medicine. This is the guy who caught a worm in his brain from eating roadkill?
- esbranson 1y ago
  Same reason he's anti-fish.
Spivak 1y ago
Which is what? Lots of this admin's actions have made sense once you know the underlying agenda—thanks project 2025 for spelling a lot of it out—but this one has me baffled. Taking on the woke… tylenol industry?
- avalys 1y ago
  It’s simple, RFKj is a well-intentioned idiot.
  - Spivak 1y ago
    Looking around for sources from before the world ended I can find quite a few reputable studies that show the correlation. The effect size is small ~0.4% in absolute risk but statistically detectable. Like okay, sure. Doctors already tell pregnant women to limit NSAIDs. So… we keep doing that. Mission accomplished?
    - kashunstva 1y ago
      The advice to avoid NSAIDs in pregnancy (and contraindication in the third trimester) doesn’t cover acetaminophen, though, because it’s not regarded as an NSAID (different mechanism of action and minimal anti-inflammatory effects.) From a recent meta analysis, a total of 6 studies meeting the inclusion criteria addressed the association between acetaminophen exposure in utero and ASD. The odds ratio for the aggregated data was 1.19 which puts the 0.2-0.4% relative risk increase depending on what baseline incidence you assume (along the lines of your estimate.) If you take the baseline incidence to be 1% then I calculate the NNH - number needed to harm, at 533, meaning you have to expose 533 pregnant women to acetaminophen to observe one additional case of ASD. Given that the current public health administration of this era in the U.S. operates by seat-of-the-pants guidance rather than statistical evidence, the statistics are irrelevant to them. My advice would be that health care providers caring for pregnant women have an informed discussion about the risk and call it a day.
y-curious 1y ago
While you're probably right in the outcome, you probably shouldn't argue based on the genetic fallacy[1] 1: https://www.scribbr.co.uk/fallacy/the-genetic-fallacy/#:~:text=The%20genetic%20fallacy%20is%20the,the%20truth%20of%20the%20claim. https://www.scribbr.co.uk/fallacy/the-genetic-fallacy/#:~:te...
- SpicyLemonZest 1y ago
  There's a threshold where you just don't have a choice. He's made a number of obvious and verifiable health lies - most recently, he described how he can diagnose children with "mitochondrial challenges" by watching them walk around. I have a job, I don't have time to individually investigate all his health claims, the heuristic that he's a liar and everything he says is wrong will have to suffice.
  - aeternum 1y ago
    What's the primary factor contributing to metabolic syndrome in children? And are you really claiming you can't determine that factor by looking?
    - SpicyLemonZest 1y ago
      I don't understand the response. Kennedy didn't say "factor" or "metabolic syndrome", he said "I see these kids that are just overburdened with mitochondrial challenges". If all he meant was that many kids are visibly overweight, wouldn't he have just said that?
      - aeternum 1y ago
        The charitable interpretation is that it is simply a more sensitive and accurate way to say that. It puts aside all the big is beautiful and similar takes and points to the fact that many American kids, especially those in certain parts of the country are now afflicted with metabolic syndrome (which is closely associated with mitochondrial disfunction). It is well-known that overloading mitochondria with sugar is quite bad for them and a key contributor to type 2 diabetes. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10036395/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10036395/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32428560/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32428560/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4408906/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4408906/
add-sub-mul-div 1y ago
> If RFK Jr says it's true, that's how I know it isn't. And one of the reasons you don't let morons take over your party is that if they ever are right, they won't be believed. If these are actual risks with Tylenol then oops, that take is being lumped in with the antivax hysteria.
- esbranson 1y ago
  > don't let morons take over your party Oops for sure. Like if someone says school closures won't have an effect on infection rates, not only will you not be believed, you'll be "anti-science", whatever that means.
kristianp 1y ago
> it's about pushing their political agenda. I've seen this kind of thing mentioned before. As a non USA person, I don't know what the deal is with RFK and autism. Wasn't it vaccines last month?
- reverius42 1y ago
  It's about pushing general distrust of the medical/pharmaceutical establishment, in favor of folk wisdom, home remedies, and anything "natural".
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

John23832 1y ago

This man says everything causes autism.

more_corn 1y ago
Woah, what if EVERYTHING causes autism?!
barbazoo 1y ago
everything This man says causes autism.

spchampion2 1y ago

Judging from the comments I've seen, nobody believes this because RFK has completely shot his credibility, and I don't blame them either. But it turns out there may actually be some emerging evidence to support this. This recent Harvard meta-analysis [1] from just last month looked at 46 different studies and suggested that there may actually be something happening here although it's not conclusive. Correlation but not yet causation. Nobody should be making policy on this yet, but it's the kind of thing that I would allocate some research dollars to if I hadn't just fired all of the competent researchers. 1 - https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/using-acetaminophen-during-pregnancy-may-increase-childrens-autism-and-adhd-risk/ https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/using-acetaminophen-during-pre...

adamredwoods 1y ago
That is a retrospective meta study, which leads to lots of speculation, but little actual proof of causation. >> The researchers noted that while steps should be taken to limit acetaminophen use, the drug is important for treating maternal fever and pain, which can also harm children. also: >> Baccarelli noted in the “competing interests” section of the paper that he has served as an expert witness for a plaintiff in a case involving potential links between acetominophen use during pregnancy and neurodevelopmental disorders. Huh, but digging in a little more does show some stronger studies... hmmmm... https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6822099/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6822099/
defrost 1y ago
I read the study and TBH it's more or less expected that a correlation would exist between increased NDD diagnoses and prescriptions common to pregnant women in regions with increased NDD diagnoses. Being afforded better care during pregnancy should correlate with better attention (and diagnosis of conditions) to offspring. If one were cynical one might say this was a good call by Andrea Baccarelli, the Dean of the Faculty, to commission a meta study looking for correlations between common treatments and NDD diagnoses in the current climate of funding going toward whomever can put forward a thread to follow in pursuit of autism.
CogitoCogito 1y ago

adamredwoods 1y ago

[flagged]

dang 1y ago
Ok, but please don't fulminate on HN. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. You may not owe people who you feel are disgusting quacks better, but you owe this community better if you're participating in it.

susiecambria 1y ago

Not specific to tylenol and autism, but I think important: RFK Jr. will be issuing findings using "gold-standard science" and hold up the findings as definitive (as proof, etc.) at the same time that he completely minimizes and bemoans current scientific processes. While we may be able to tell the difference between RFK's BS science and real science, what does this mean for everyone else? Especially because RFK Jr. does not trust science?

foxglacier 1y ago
Nobody should have been trusting science to begin with. Maybe it will help to show science-believers that they should be more cautious.
- ahtihn 1y ago
  What's the alternative? What should one trust instead?
  - Der_Einzige 1y ago
    No one. This world is radically subjective and all appearances are deceiving. Even solipsism doesn’t work because you can’t trust yourself! We live in Cartesian radical subjectivity - and no cogito to save you from the evil demon.
  - foxglacier 1y ago
    Evaluate risks and benefits as best you can, informed by whatever science seems to show. Life's complicated and nobody can provide simple correct instructions on the right way to do everything, or even anything. Public health messages are an attempt to do that but they're unreliable and sometimes intentionally misleading or wrong because their purpose is to influence people's behavior, not to be correct.

mountainriver 1y ago

It’s insane that the RFK crowd continues to not consider that the increase is just due to better diagnoses. I wouldn’t entirely rule out there being environmental factors, but from the data I could gather it seems that acetaminophen usage has decreased in pregnancy over the last several decades in the US, while autism has increased. This all seems to go back to the boomer generation believing the world was simpler when they grew up and that it was somehow ruined. That may be true about some things but the reality of their generation is they had no idea what people were going through, and didn’t have the language to describe it

johnbellone 1y ago
Better diagnosis and that autism covers a wider range of symptoms.

jiggawatts 1y ago

If he’s right, we’ll know before the end of Trump’s term. How much are people willing to bet that the incidence of autism will remain unchanged and the administration will disavow everything. “Nobody knew autism was so complicated.” — future Trump, probably.

Voultapher 1y ago
I think you are severely underestimating the mental gymnastics these people routinely go through to never be wrong about anything. When you go to the doctor because you child is on the spectrum. "Fill out this form Mam", on it is the question "Did you take Tylenol during the pregnancy?" - You check "Yes" -> Your fault, should have known better. No help for you. - You check "No" -> Well then it can't be autism, that's "scientifically" proven. No help for you.
D-Coder 1y ago
> “Nobody knew autism was so complicated.” — future Trump, probably. "Autism rates have gone down 500% during my r/e/i/g/n/ administration!"
jackvalentine 1y ago
They’re going to mess with the data to make whatever story they tell ‘right’.

crote 1y ago

Just one slight problem: Tylenol was introduced in 1955. Autism was first scientifically documented in 1926. If Tylenol causes autism, how did those parents in the 1920s get their hands on it? Also, wouldn't there been a clear link between Tylenol sales and the occurrence of autism? Where is the data showing that the adoption of Tylenol in the 1960s resulted in a rise in autism, and that the "rise" of autism in the 1990s is linked to an increase in Tylenol use?

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
BJones12 1y ago
> If Tylenol causes autism, how did those parents in the 1920s get their hands on it? The claim is that Tylenol is a factor that increases the risk of autism. It is not the cause of 100% of all cases. That said, the first synthesis of Paracetamol in the USA was Johns Hopkins in 1877, so maybe the answer is they went to Baltimore.
- yencabulator 1y ago
  Now do Tylenol sales kicking up in the 60s.

burnt-resistor 1y ago

Someone needs to find a new brain worm for the heroin junkie who dabbled in environmental law that gets him doing the right thing™ like: - going after quacks who promote bleach, horse dewormers (maybe that's the problem), and raw milk - adopt the precautionary principle - approve EU sunscreen compounds without animal testing and banning reef/human unsafe ones - leave science to scientists - increase regulatory oversight over food manufacturing, additive, and supply chain regulation so there aren't canyons of non-enforcement or exclusions between FDA and USDA Or, maybe, this is really radical... find someone else competent to do the job.

sandworm101 1y ago

Coorelation does not mean causation. I remember an old study linking ultrasounds to lefthandedness. It was legit. Families with access to ultrasounds lived in countries/areas where lefthandedness was more culturally accepted, places where it was not drilled out of kids. The study was correct, but anyone touting it as causation was totally incorrect. Fyi, sharks are way more likely to attack people with australian accents. Never go swimming with an auzzi.

theoreticalmal 1y ago
I had an ultrasound and I’m left handed. I finally know why!
adamors 1y ago
You shoudln’t even be entertaining this lunacy with any response. Anything coming out of the RFK jr health department is batshit.
- sandworm101 1y ago
  He was legitimately put into a position of power by the american political system. And this is an article by the BBC, probably the most respected news source on the planet. Crazy is now the norm, the leading voice. It must be confronted.
  - lupire 1y ago
    "legitimately" is a stretch, given all the information that has come fourth in the past year.
  - mannykannot 1y ago
    Your first point is correct, but it (like the second one) has no bearing on the issue of the medical soundness of the department's positions and policy.
    - sandworm101 1y ago

rendall 1y ago

Well, time to pick up Tylenol shares on the dip.

giveita 1y ago
Maybe? Looks like it hasn't performed well over 5 years. I'd still rather hold something that I wanna hold for a long time.
- jrockway 1y ago
  Johnson & Johnson split off their consumer pharmaceuticals into a new company (Kenvue) in 2023, so there isn't 5 years of stock price data.
ksherlock 1y ago
I considered that when the news hit but didn't. Even if there's nothing to the report and it's forgotten in a week, that sound you heard Friday was tens of thousands of trail lawyers jizzing in their pants. $1.8 billion powerball ain't got nothing on the payday they're looking at.

sofixa 1y ago

Good time to buy. While the cult might take this to heart and stop using Tylenol alltogether, there will be lawsuits to protect the brand and the company, and considering the lack of proof, in the end they will suceed.

lyu07282 1y ago
They are molesting the money again, but the company can just pivot to drinkable bleech beverages marketed on joe rogan, in the end an evidence-free health care system might be way more profitable in the short term.

jgalt212 1y ago

The entire medical community is doing their impression of Shaggy, i.e. "it wasn't me!" But there are thousands of suffering parents and children and this lack of empathy really does nothing for no one. Another hand-wavy response I have heard is that given the new Autism Spectrum diagnosis, many more kids are now diagnosed with autism. That being said, none has even come up with a reasonably derived estimate saying that of the 5X increase in autism over the last 25 years, we can confidently say that nX of this is due to changing diagnosis standards. And if n is anything less than 5, the medical community has work to do in solving this problem and not passing the blame and accusing suffering parents of being crazy.

stefan_ 1y ago
So we do the tried and true solution of listening to the deranged quack?
- jmclnx 1y ago
  I do not usually side with huge corporations, but in this case I hope Tylenol drags that quack into court and make him prove the report. We all know he cannot prove anything, even if Tylenol loses, ensure they cost RFK jr lots of $ in defending himself.
  - alchemist1e9 1y ago
    Does RFK Jr have a track recording of winning his cases or losing them?
    - forgotoldacc 1y ago
      Whether he wins or loses is irrelevant. This administration has a track record of ignoring judgements they don't like and facing zero consequences.
      - alchemist1e9 1y ago
        His prior legal track record has no relevance to his current work?

nilamo 1y ago

[flagged]

vasco 1y ago
Maybe I never take enough but it's also such a weak painkiller that I always prefer to just feel how it feels and sense if I'm getting better or worse. And that is without believing it's super bad for me, just doesn't make sense as a trade-off.
- op00to 1y ago
  Some times advil works. Some times aspirin works. Some times Tylenol works. Some times none of them work. There’s all kinds of substances that are available freely that can kill you if you take too much. NSAIDS, Imodium, DXM, iron supplements.
  - viraptor 1y ago
    Water. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication Meat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_toxicity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_toxicity
    - op00to 1y ago
      I don’t know about water, but Hydrohydroxic acid is a solvent for ANYTHING! That can’t be good.
adamors 1y ago
It’s the only painkiller allowed for pregnant women, so this leads me to believe this is some other form of conspiracy to control women (since the science does’t exist, it obviously doesn’t cause autism)
loloquwowndueo 1y ago
“May or may not cause autism”.

deleted 1y ago

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elric 1y ago

Was replying to a commented which was downvoted to death entirely unfairly, so I'll paste my reply as a new comment: Paracetamol/acetaminophen (the active ingredient in tylenol) is super toxic to the liver. Lots of people overdose on it, some by accident and some deliberately. As little as FOUR GRAMS can cause jaundice and fuck up your liver. If you have a fever, taking 1 gram every couple of hours might seem entirely reasonable, but it can kill you. Regardless of any autism links, it's good to be careful with this stuff.

frodo8sam 1y ago
Taking one gram every 5-6 hours for a maximum of 4 gram/day IS entirely reasonable. I don't know how you jumped from "it's dangerous to take in to high amounts, even 4 times the recommended dose is dangerous" to "the recommened dose is dangerous". When taken correctly it is very safe and had fewer side effects then NSAIDs like ibuprofen.
hshdhdhj4444 1y ago
I don’t understand these responses. A person in power makes unsubstantiated (and often disproven claims), and makes major decisions that affect all our lives based on those claims. And the response ignores the fact that the people in power are making decisions based on complete nonsense and pointing to something fairly trivial that everyone knows about anyways. I mean, I haven’t been to a doctor who hasn’t pointed out that there are limits to how much acetaminophen one can take. There’s a reason anything above a 650mg dose is prescription only. Theirs is a reason if you’re suffering from a severe fever doctors will give you both acetaminophen and ibuprofen and have you alternate them. If there is a tiny minority that is apparently unaware of the fact that Tylenol in high doses can have adverse effects or at the very least not even aware of the fact that most medications need to be taken as prescribed or within the suggested limits, that’s a minuscule part of the problem relative to people in power making decisions based on unproven claims.
afavour 1y ago
So in summary: taking 4x the recommended dose of a medication is dangerous? How many other medications would that apply to? Countless, I imagine. That’s why we have dosages on every bottle.

aynyc 1y ago

Don’t you wish we have a short sell reporting data so we can check if people in the know already shorted the stock?

PartiallyTyped 1y ago
Unusual whales does a lot of reporting of this nature. One could also take a look at pages like cheddar which track what they claim is unusual flow in options.
yareally 1y ago
If it's already in the news, it's already too late to short. News events tend to quickly reverse as well so I'd be looking for a long position at a support level
- 1oooqooq 1y ago
  he's talking about the person who created the news...

_mlbt 1y ago

Why are doctors telling women that it's okay to take Tylenol during pregnancy in the first place? Everything they put in their bodies can have an effect on the baby so medication for pregnant mothers should be severely limited. Why haven't we learned from the Thalidomide scandal? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide_scandal Tylenol only helps for minor aches and pains that frankly, pregnant mothers should just deal with for the good of their unborn child. The risk is not worth it. RFK Jr. isn't right on everything, but he's not wrong on everything either and it's refreshing seeing someone head HHS that isn't in big pharma's pocket for a change.

hshdhdhj4444 1y ago
Yeah, it’s refreshing seeing someone not in Big Pharma’s pocket. Much better that he be in Big Wellness’s pocket which is an order of magnitude bigger, unregulated, and doesn’t need to provide evidence for their claims.
- _mlbt 1y ago
  Is he in Big Wellness's pocket? I hadn't heard anything about that. Who's paying him off? He's a Kennedy with a net worth of about $15 million so he doesn't exactly need the money. He strikes me as an authentic true believer in his cause, but he could just be a really convincing con man, so I'd love to learn more about this. Please link to some credible sources showing that he's being paid off by someone.
  - exe34 1y ago
    > doesn't exactly need the money. has this ever stopped anybody?
  - Workaccount2 1y ago
    He literally just repeats whatever trends the crunchy moms on tiktok are latching onto. He's definitely not getting paid, but he's certainly carrying the banner and basking in the praise...
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docstryder 1y ago

It is the safest painkiller currently available. Ibuprofen can cause gut bleeding and renal issues if overdosed on. We all know about opiates. Some facts - typical adult dose is 1g. Max suggested cap on the drug label is 3g per day (about 6 pills at usual 500mg dose). You need to take 10g (20 pills) to be at real risk of hepatotoxicity. So 10 times the typical dose is when you have overdose effects. (basically 20 pills per day vs 2 pills per day). Not your "wildly unsafe at slightly above usage levels" AT ALL (as someone posted on here) This is not harmless - this might cause someone to take more dangerous painkillers when acetaminophen (tylenol) might have safely helped them. The autism stuff is plainly false and disproved.

s5300 1y ago
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FirmwareBurner 1y ago
I'm sorry but as a non American I can only think about Rehab Officer Tylenol Jones from the Idiocracy movie since that's the first time I heard about Tylenol without knowing it's a drug, and in the movie everyone had well known American brands as their names due to overreach of corporate marketing into society, but that part of the satire went over my head as a European kid back then, thinking Tylenol was just a person's name and not a drug. I wonder if Americans know how much of their society and culture bled incompletely into other countries via movies. Like for example after communism fell the youth here got hooked on American rap and hip-hop so we were using slang from those songs like friends calling each other the N word without knowing the context behind it since that's how black rappers addressed each other and they were rock stars here.
- triyambakam 1y ago
  There's a Rammstein song, „we all live in Amerika, Coca-Cola, wunderbar!”
- KPGv2 1y ago
  >I wonder if Americans know how much of their society and culture bled incompletely into other countries via movies. the unbridled joy when a non american sees a red Solo cup irl for the first time "i thought it was just a thing in movies!!"

daveoc64 1y ago

I'm always surprised at the hostility to Acetaminophen on HN (or Paracetamol as we call it here in the UK). It's one of the most commonly used medicines in the UK - and certainly the most popular painkiller. YouGov even did a survey confirming that - https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/Results2012071820painkillers.pdf https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/docume... The safety aspects of it are not something that gets raised in the UK much - other than suicide attempts, which are going to happen no matter what medicine you use. Probably the biggest risk comes from people not realising that other medicines (e.g. for cold and flu) often include it, so they double up on a dose.

zwnow 1y ago
Its so popular people will take it for mild inconveniences, which is absolutely not what you should do.
- daveoc64 1y ago
  Why not?
  - zwnow 1y ago
    Stresses the liver, also if its used frequently for mild inconveniences you should maybe go to the doctor, as frequent headaches or stuff like that can hint to more severe stuff.
    - epcoa 1y ago
      It does not stress the liver at recommended doses. Plenty of people get frequent headaches and other aches that have no other severe stuff going on, or really anything that needs to be treated more than symptomatically. Scheduled tylenol is an effective element of a pain regimen for many people.
      - zwnow 1y ago

protonbob 1y ago

There really are risks. It's just not worth it during pregnancy. The pain killing effects of tylenol aren't worth the potential risks during pregnancy. https://www.mountsinai.org/about/newsroom/2025/mount-sinai-study-supports-evidence-that-prenatal-acetaminophen-use-may-be-linked-to-increased-risk-of-autism-and-adhd https://www.mountsinai.org/about/newsroom/2025/mount-sinai-s...

syntaxing 1y ago
What’s the alternative? Pregnant people are people too. They can’t take Ibuprofen, or opioids, or even Tylenol now.
- protonbob 1y ago
  Yeah my wife is also pregnant and sometimes it is really tough on her but she doesn't use any medication other than baby aspirin for blood pressure. The alternative is exercise, anti-inflammatory foods, and also realizing that it isn't just your body anymore and you can't hurt somebody else's chances for a very small amount of pain relief.
  - panarky 1y ago
    This is like saying "The risk of a traffic accident on the way to the hospital is unacceptable so I'll make her walk 12 miles to the hospital." Walking 12 miles is not only uncomfortable, it is also higher risk to Mom and baby than driving. You have to balance all the risks and benefits.
    - protonbob 1y ago
      Right. And the benefits for tylenol are small.
      - deeviant 1y ago
        And the risks are infinitesimally smaller.

_mlbt 1y ago

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buellerbueller 1y ago

ugh, i am allergic to ibuprofen and aspirin (all NSAIDs to be precise). tylenol is my only OTC option.

syntaxing 1y ago
You’re not going to become autistic all of sudden after taking Tylenol. The claim is that it effects the fetus during pregnancy
- wizzwizz4 1y ago
  And the claim is probably bogus. If it were true, we'd expect other evidence (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45147119 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45147119) that hasn't showed up. More likely, it's an artefact of autism diagnosis rates varying in different populations, and maybe something to do with autistic mothers' fucky pain tolerances. More likely to take painkillers + more likely to get your child assessed for autism = observed (tiny) correlation, even in the absence of any causation.
- buellerbueller 1y ago
  I am not worried about autism, ya goof! there has repeatedly been shown to be no link, and i am already autistic. I am worried RFKJ will make tyelnol harder to get.

JCM9 1y ago

When something like this happens there’s a non-zero chance some slimy hedge fund is behind this pushing conspiracy theories on gullible folks to tank a stock.

lukeaar 1y ago

The amount of anti-science hysteria and sexism in this comment section is abhorrent. I expected better from HN.

roody15 1y ago

https://ehjournal.biomedcentral.com/counter/pdf/10.1186/s12940-025-01208-0.pdf https://ehjournal.biomedcentral.com/counter/pdf/10.1186/s129... Data does appear to show a possible link, definitely at the least warrants further research.

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tsoukase 1y ago

Ibuprofen is NSAID (non steroid anti inflammatory), oaracetamol is not. Related but different. As long as autism, there can be no causative link. Millions have autism, billions take paracetamol. Autism has, like its cousin schizophrenia, a strong genetic-familial basis. Hardly any environmental factor increases the risk so much to be worrisome.

FrankWilhoit 1y ago

Who sold short? How big a bribe will be given to reverse this?

giardini 1y ago

We've known for years that tylenol affected thought processes: https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2019/03/30/acetaminophens_surprising_psychoactive_effects.html https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2019/03/30/acetaminoph...

thehappypm 1y ago
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted—this is a fascinating read!

kosma 1y ago

There is research correlating autism and mothers taking certain medications (painkillers, antidepressants). Since autism is hereditary, there is a significant chance that these mothers are autistic too. Autistic people have a vastly high risk of depression, and often have unusual pain thresholds, requiring more painkillers. I would not be surprised of the correlation was real, but the direction of action was reversed; after all, it's plausible that autism causes the need for taking more medication.

jeffbee 1y ago
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duskwuff 1y ago
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- perching_aix 1y ago
  And so what doesn't make sense to you about those two sentences?
- gpderetta 1y ago
  Reread the parent comment.
- wizzwizz4 1y ago
  Polydactyly is both hereditary and acquired during development.
- adrr 1y ago
  Sure it can. Type 2 diabetes is both hereditary and lifestyle/behavioral influenced . Same with cancer, if you have cancer in your family your risk of getting cancer is higher. I would say most medical issues are both. Heart disease, gout, obesity, hypertension,strokes,asthma etc.
  - duskwuff 1y ago

bentt 1y ago

Well this should be provable within about 5 years if this Tylenol is truly the cause. Let's just have a few states in the US eliminate Tylenol usage during pregnancy, and watch the autism disappear. Any volunteers?

nxobject 1y ago
At this stage, the entirety of the US is a sample of less-than-willing volunteers…

unglaublich 1y ago

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apparent 1y ago
When I'm his age, I'd be happy to be as fit as he is. I will concede he sounds like death, though.

bitwize 1y ago

I've been talking about this for a little while: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45006936 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45006936 I'll take RFK being the stopped clock on this over him causing yet more harm to the medical community and to Americans' health.

macintux 1y ago
The problem is that RFK, like Trump, has effectively created a situation where anything they say is immediately discredited by a huge portion of the population.

paulvnickerson 1y ago

Here's the relevant study from earlier this year: https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/using-acetaminophen-during-pregnancy-may-increase-childrens-autism-and-adhd-risk/ https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/using-acetaminophen-during-pre... It's a meta-analysis that considered a bunch of individual studies, their effect size, and their quality. It claims that Tylenol use has increased alongside a 20-fold increase in autism rates, suggesting causation, and recommends immediate efforts to reduce Tylenol use during pregnancy. One objection that I've seen is that the lead author, Dr. Baccarelli, has a conflict of interest because he was an expert witness in a lawsuit about acetaminophen and neurodevelopmental disorders. If you think about it though, someone knowledgeable enough to write this paper is exactly the kind of person you'd want to serve as an expert witness.

crooked-v 1y ago
I'm extremely suspicious of anything that looks at 'an increase in autism rates' without considering the same factors that have gone into there being 'more' left-handed people over the past 50 years or so. There are a lot of people in the past who 'weren't left handed' because they were punished as children if they showed left-handed behavior, and that's still a whole lot less stigmatized than autism.
- deleted 1y ago
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janice1999 1y ago
> If you think about it though, someone knowledgeable enough to write this paper is exactly the kind of person you'd want to serve as an expert witness. Maybe, but the same was also true of the now disgraced Andrew Wakefield, although his conflict of interest was even greater since he didn't reveal his funding before publishing his original paper.
philjohn 1y ago
Has the study stratified for improved diagnosis? When I was a child in the 80's teachers weren't looking for the telltale signs, but you better believe there were autistic poeople, they just weren't diagnosed.

johnbellone 1y ago

There's a big difference between "using Tylenol may increase the risk of autism" and "Tylenol causes autism". If this study is accurate, it merely links the two together, and does not provide the reason. The problem with RFK is he's using it as a way to appease his own base to justify an anti-vaccination and anti-science agenda.

rconti 1y ago

Buy the dip?

dwattttt 1y ago

I can't wait for autism diagnosis to be linked to psychologists & paediatricians, and their subsequent banning.

ipv6ipv4 1y ago

Up until yesterday it was vaccines. Now it’s acetaminophen, and nobody is batting an eyelash at the about face.

nxobject 1y ago
The discussion about vaccines has been toxified in blue states - may as well throw out another reason to keep the crunchy skeptics on board.

s3graham 1y ago

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2817406 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2817406 seems like a good review.

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deepsquirrelnet 1y ago

> That report will also suggest a medicine derived from folate – a water-soluble vitamin – can be used to treat symptoms of the developmental disorder in some people, according to the Journal. I think folate supplementation is generally already a fairly standard recommendation during pregnancy, since deficiency is linked to significant neural tube defects during pregnancy (eg CDC [1]). It's at least interesting that folate-derived medicines may also treat symptoms. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/folic-acid/about/index.html#:~:text=About%20Folic%20Acid%20*%20Folic%20acid%20is,serious%20birth%20defects%20called%20neural%20tube%20defects. https://www.cdc.gov/folic-acid/about/index.html#:~:text=Abou...

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esbranson 1y ago

Harvard study: the science is inconclusive and more research is needed.[1] News outlets: no credible scientific evidence. Uh oh spaghettios. The more the leftwing "resists" the more their "science" self-image will disconnect with reality. Like most things with this administration, I think that's the real goal. [1] 14 August 2025 in BMC Environmental Health. 27 of 46 studies reported a positive association between prenatal acetaminophen and neurodevelopmental disorders like autism and ADHD.

wkat4242 1y ago

I wonder if this hating on autism is part of the regime's focus on loyalty. Autistic people tend to make their own plans and are much more independent. I'd never be able to follow orders in an army for example. Whereas the current administration is all about loyalty over facts. They even make the meteorological employees do a loyalty test now so they'll follow the narrative and not the science.

nxobject 1y ago
As someone who’s done work with the whole spectrum of ASD: it’ll be fascinating to see if the diagnosis gets weaponized eventually. Right now, MAGA seems to still like “Hi-IQ nerd disrupters”; but the administration would be perfectly happy to sell off an ally for political gain.

mikewarot 1y ago

This is about to cause a huge spike in child deaths due to Reye's syndrome. Parents will choose Aspirin to treat their child's fevers, despite warnings, because that's what they took as a kid, and it worked then. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reye_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reye_syndrome

nxobject 1y ago

My wife is already disproportionately denied pain management compared to me - I’d be very, very concerned about how this result gets implemented. But at least they figured out autism by September, right?

sandshaker_au 1y ago

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hcfman 1y ago

Can't we find a way to cure lawyerism? That's a terrible debilitating sickness. I expect that Kennedyism is also hereditary. Another one.