13 ms·

The natural diamond industry is getting rocked. Thank the lab-grown variety

297 points by geox 1y ago

jqpabc123 1y ago
It's all just a crystalline form of carbon. Regardless of how it was made, one is just as much "forever" as the other. The real major difference is in the labor practices being used. De Beers had a good run as a cartel but as they say, "the jig is up"
- close04 1y ago
  I’m not sure diamonds are popular because of what they are but what they represent. Every gem out there is “the crystalline form” of something. Diamonds are (were?) the expensive crystalline form. And plenty of people equate “expensive” with love, or care, or respect. Even if the same people would never be able to tell the difference between diamond and cubic zirconium, knowing it’s the cheap one makes it less valuable in other ways. This depends on the person, of course. If it’s not diamonds it will have to be something else that shows “I put my money where my mouth is”. A simple metal wedding band is the same wherever it’s made but a famous jeweler will charge an arm and a leg more than your local shop for the same amount of precious metal, same effort, and same result. And yet Tiffany’s isn’t going out of business for the same reason. It’s what it represents. I am curious to see if tastes or fashion shift towards other rarer or more expensive gems not yet manufactured cheaply en masse.
  - AnimalMuppet 1y ago
    I could see thinking about this differently. As people quit believing in God, they stop thinking in terms of "God brought us together/we were made for each other" (though they stop thinking that a generation or two later than they stop believing in God). If you think that we made this relationship, then maybe a lab-grown (human made) diamond fits? (Though it may take an advertising campaign before people see it that way.) Disclaimer: I'm not a sociologist. This is just my speculation about how the dynamic could change.
  - jqpabc123 1y ago
    I'd argue that a person obsessed with cost really isn't focused on what it represents. For those obsessed with materialism, real satisfaction is out of reach. There is always bigger, better and more expensive. Personally, I would tend to reconsider any long term relationship with such a person.
    - close04 1y ago
      For anyone appreciating expensive things, giving diamonds represent the willingness to fulfill that desire. It’s easy to conflate that with love, at least for a while, even when you aren’t a materialistic person. Jewelry is the pinnacle of “just monetary value”. Unlike almost any other possession, a car, a house, clothes, etc. jewelry serves no practical purpose, only shows the willingness or ability to spend for it. The more you spend, the more valuable the gesture, the more you cared to please the recipient. Materialistic people have the same feelings you have. Those just happened to be triggered by different values than yours.
      - Muromec 1y ago
        The other purpose of jewerly is looking nice. That's difficult to comprehend, but it's the actual important thing for people who's most expensive piece of everyday wear isn't their phone.
        close04 1y ago
        Nothing supports your "looking nice" argument like finishing it with the "most expensive piece of everyday wear". If you want something nice, you get something nice, not something expensive. That's difficult to comprehend for people who measure niceness in a visibly displayed price tag.
        Muromec 1y ago
        It's a shoker, but nice things that are done by people who love making them have a tendency to be expensive.
- Incipient 1y ago
  I'd disagree with that. The prospect of a natural diamond is that it's unique (I mean, not visibly I suppose) and millions of years old. I'd say it's like AI music or art - something made by a machine, for some reason, just doesn't have any "soul" to it. I'm not actually entirely convinced in my argument, but there is something there...
  - whatevaa 1y ago
    There is no "soul" in either pieces of rock.
    - yen223 1y ago
      Tired: rocks don't have souls Wired: we will put a soul in this rock for $10,000
      - cantor_S_drug 1y ago
        Spintronics: Could diamonds be a computer's best friend? For the first time, physicists have demonstrated that information can flow through a diamond wire. In the experiment, electrons did not flow through diamond as they do in traditional electronics; rather, they stayed in place and passed along a magnetic effect called "spin" to each other down the wire -- like a row of sports spectators doing "the wave." Spin could one day be used to transmit data in computer circuits -- and this new experiment revealed that diamond transmits spin better than most metals in which researchers have previously observed the effect. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/03/140323151718.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/03/140323151718.h...
  - jqpabc123 1y ago
    If you can't tell the difference by either looking or listening, I'd argue they both have a similar amount of "soul". And thus, any distinction between them exists mainly in your head.
    - lightedman 1y ago
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- shvdle 1y ago
  The entire point of a diamond is that it’s expensive. People buy them for status. Otherwise there are lots of gems that are much more prettier, but they are not as expensive. It’s like saying people will stop buying branded clothes because unbranded clothes have the same or even a higher quality for a fraction of the price. Kinda misses the point.
  - jqpabc123 1y ago
    It’s like saying people will stop buying branded clothes because unbranded clothes have the same or even a higher quality for a fraction of the price. People buy inferior, counterfeit merchandise all the time because they can't tell the difference. But there is nothing inferior or counterfeit about a manmade diamond. It is *exactly* the same material as a natural one.
    - shvdle 1y ago
      You miss the point. The only reason to buy a diamond is that it is expensive. It doesn’t matter if you could buy the same thing cheaper. It doesn’t matter that there are better gems that are cheaper. You buy the diamond to show that you can afford it. You buy someone a diamond to prove how much they are worth to you. Yes, you can buy a man-made diamond the same you can buy counterfeit branded clothes. That only shows that you’re tasteless and that you can’t afford the real thing.
      - jqpabc123 1y ago
        You miss the point. If it is strictly about the money, a larger man made diamond can easily cost just as much as a smaller natural one --- while instantly conveying to the untrained eye the appearance of being more expensive.
        michaelt 1y ago
        I suspect there is pressure in the opposite direction these days. If you see someone wearing a 6-carat diamond, you know it's either a $100,000 natural diamond, or a $4,000 lab-grown diamond. And you'll assume it's the latter, as far more people can afford the latter. On the other hand, a 1-carat diamond would be more like $2000 natural, $300 lab-grown, making it far more believable that it was natural.
- mathiaspoint 1y ago
  It was never about the rocks. Like nearly everything else in the economy it's really about attention.
  - jqpabc123 1y ago
    The attention from a man made diamond is indistinguishable from a natural one to most people.
    - cwmoore 1y ago
      I think this is true, manmade diamonds are valuable in a way that counterfeit currency is not. But "most people" may not be as important as people who know the story of, and the person wearing, the gem, and provenance is always a meaningful point of reference for expensive luxury items. My screenshots of NFTs are pixel accurate, but not exactly as valuable as the real thing.
      - mathiaspoint 1y ago
        Yeah it goes both ways too. As they say it's the thought that counts.
      - dplgk 1y ago
        It seems we've all come down to the reality that the screenshot of an nft is exactly as valuable as the nft.
- xhkkffbf 1y ago
  I've bought some lab created diamonds made with CVD. THey're great. If anything, they're too clear. I recommend to all newly engaged couples to buy them and save the money for more important things like raising children or buying a home. And if you look on eBay, you can get CVD diamonds for even less. (At a bit of a risk, of course.)
  - JKCalhoun 1y ago
    Any reputable places to get them that you know of?
    - xhkkffbf 1y ago
      No. But some of the eBay prices are so cheap that you can just risk it. And if it looks nice, that's all you can ask.
- ooterness 1y ago
  Like all other forms of carbon, diamonds will combust in the presence of oxygen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfa-cKDzYSg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfa-cKDzYSg
  - dehrmann 1y ago
    You can also use the resulting CO2 to do CO2 things. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0wvDwSnzcw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0wvDwSnzcw
jxntb73 1y ago
I'm still conflicted about this. I understand the cost and blood diamond debate and largely agree. But there is something about diamonds that makes them divine: carbon atoms crystallizing and bonding over millions to billions of years to form structures, rated on a scale of color, clarity, cut, and weight. It's like gold, primarily forged in cosmic events like supernova explosions. Naaaaah let's just make it in a lab it looks the same. People are being priced out of art and beauty and it's a shame economics and corruption make real diamonds dirty.
- chasil 1y ago
  Unfortunately, De Beers controls the natural diamond supply, and they leave much to be desired in corporate ethics. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Beers#Legal_issues https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Beers#Legal_issues
  - jxntb73 1y ago
    And the US holds 50-70% of the total world market capitalization, and yet here we are. Believe 15A and 19A as much as you can believe De Beers' 'Building Forever 2030 Goal's
- K0balt 1y ago
  It’s not just that, the economics of diamonds is completely fabricated. Idk about these days, but debeers used to buy up the vast majority of mined diamond, not to sell but to hoard or destroy them to maintain scarcity. I’m not even sure that all of these recent stories about lab created diamonds to come out aren’t actually a PR pitch to advertise “natural” diamonds, an effort to emphasise the difference in the public psyche. Anything public facing that positions diamonds as expensive, desirable, or valuable can usually be traced back to the cartel. It’s super common in movies and other media.
  - jxntb73 1y ago
    I'm not excusing nor rationalizing prices and the economics, obviously they hoard and manupulate the rates. Can't argue with how dark that crap must be. All I'm saying is real diamonds are 'better' and everyone knows it. Humans are emotional and that's a good thing. The manipulation of it is the bad thing. Trying to deny yourself of your emotions like a monk and yet still wishing for the iconic symbolic significance having 3month salary storybook ring, what are we doing here. Pay more for the real thing because life is real.
Jedd 1y ago
This story - Diamonds are Bullshit - comes up regularly, and I bookmarked it back in 2013 because it's so good. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5403988 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5403988 There is nothing to miss about the impending death of the 'diamond industry'. (Oh, the link is broken on the HN 2013 story -- try this one: https://priceonomics.com/diamonds-are-bullshit/ https://priceonomics.com/diamonds-are-bullshit/ )
- scoofy 1y ago
  When I saw the headline I immediately thought: "couldn't have happened to nicer guys /s" Why is it that everyone seems to have a soft spot for industries that have some kind of monopoly, suddenly losing that monopoly.
sorenjan 1y ago
Apparently there's a big issue in Antwerp now that they're not allowed to import diamonds from Russia. Maybe they should stop fighting the synthetic diamonds and embrace them instead, as something guaranteed free of human suffering and war profiteering. But the whole industry hinges on manufactured demand, so they'd rather see the trade move to other countries I guess. https://eutoday.net/antwerps-diamond-industry-facing-an-existential-crisis/ https://eutoday.net/antwerps-diamond-industry-facing-an-exis...
cut3 1y ago
Ive been seeing this same type of article for decades now. I bought a 2 karrat flawless lab grown diamond in 2005 for around $2k, and according to this article that size sells for $3,500. Prices have increased it seems. I assumed they would drop as more were made.
- jxntb73 1y ago
  A price appreciation of about 75% over roughly 20 years.
- Jedd 1y ago
  The _new_ price has doubtless gone up, as inflationary valuation benefits to the manufacturer / vendors. The resale value of your item has gone down.
- aetherson 1y ago
  You shouldn't have gotten a 2 carat diamond that cheap at that time. Either you got a really great deal for some idiosyncratic reason or your recollection is off. Here's an example article from the era: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/business/2004/02/14/you-cant-tell-the-difference/bf641670-d37f-4e7d-a5e6-92fd1908d1a7/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/business/2004/02/14/y...
  - Aurornis 1y ago
    I second this. There was no way to get a real, flawless, 2 carat lab grown diamond at the time for $2K. I hope the parent commenter wasn’t duped by someone selling fake diamonds.
- hackingonempty 1y ago
  According to the inflation calculator at bls.gov, $2000 in June 2005 has the same buying power as $3,317 in June 2025. So in real terms the price is about the same.
- fallinghawks 1y ago
  Inflation is probably why the number is higher now. A year ago I picked up a 1ct hearts and arrows (D/E. VVS1/2, IGI certificate) from AliExpress for $360. I can see the hearts and arrows and it tests as diamond. A few months later an article came out about how lab diamonds stack up against mined, and the author had also bought one with similar characteristics from AliExpress for even less. I just checked the same store and they're (not H&A but same other stats) running around $125 plus a $14 tariff.
ginko 1y ago
Diamonds need to become even cheaper. I want phone screens and glasses made out of single sheets of diamond. I want heatsinks and kitchen knives made out of the stuff.
- js8 1y ago
  Isn't diamond too brittle for all these applications?
  - holowoodman 1y ago
    No. Less brittle than normal glass, but not as good as certain ceramics.
    - cubefox 1y ago
      Glass is very brittle, ceramics are also quite brittle. So the "no" isn't obvious.
conductr 1y ago
My wife is in the retail side of this market and I’ve had a lot of second hand familiarity with the transition to lab grown. What I find most interesting is the weight put on the ethical side. I think it’s overstated. When the issue became big, the Blood Diamond movie, sales of lab grown did not markedly increase. It took another decade or so to become more prevalent. What changed over that time is the price, IIRC the price was comparable to natural at the time the movie came out. Ethics were not compelling enough for most people at that price. When prices got about 50% of natural, it became much more compelling. Now that it’s around 10%, it’s practically so compelling that buying natural isn’t even a real consideration for many people. Anyways, I think people use the Blood Diamond talking point as a socially acceptable reason- it’s what they tell their parents and grandparents who might judge them- but in reality it’s almost completely a financial decision. If the tables were turned and natural diamonds became 1/10th the cost of lab grown, the market would completely flip back practically overnight.
- aprilthird2021 1y ago
  I actually predict in a few years it will become more fashionable to wear other jewels over diamonds given the rate the prices are crashing at. When diamonds are competitive with all the other gemstones, people start looking at those the same way too
  - holowoodman 1y ago
    But as soon as that happens, other gemstones will come in cheaper artificial varieties as well.
    - SpicyLemonZest 1y ago
      The biggest diamond alternative today, moissanite, is always artificial - ironically because its natural form is so rare that it's not obtainable.
      - tsimionescu 1y ago
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
Henchman21 1y ago
Obligatory: “Have you ever tried to sell a diamond” https://cdn.theatlantic.com/media/archives/1982/02/249-2/132591340.pdf https://cdn.theatlantic.com/media/archives/1982/02/249-2/132...
dang 1y ago
Diamond threads are forever! Natural Diamonds Had a Rough Year - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42592424 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42592424 - Jan 2025 (6 comments) See how a lab-grown diamond is made - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42257245 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42257245 - Nov 2024 (49 comments) Synthetic diamonds are now purer, more beautiful, and cheaper than mined - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41488353 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41488353 - Sept 2024 (490 comments) Diamond industry 'in trouble' as lab-grown gemstones tank prices further - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40585594 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40585594 - June 2024 (39 comments) UK mining giant to offload De Beers diamond business - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40359867 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40359867 - May 2024 (7 comments) Forget billions of years: Researchers have grown diamonds in just 150 minutes - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40172784 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40172784 - April 2024 (61 comments) Lab Grown Diamonds Are Too Perfect for Their Own Good - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39298644 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39298644 - Feb 2024 (1 comment) Diamonds Suck - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38247300 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38247300 - Nov 2023 (163 comments) The diamond world takes radical steps to stop a pricing plunge - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38245762 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38245762 - Nov 2023 (588 comments) Diamonds are losing their allure - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37508058 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37508058 - Sept 2023 (128 comments) Have You Ever Tried to Sell a Diamond? (1982) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37396372 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37396372 - Sept 2023 (11 comments) What's the case for naturally mined diamonds anymore? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37275308 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37275308 - Aug 2023 (49 comments) Man-made diamonds are falling in price and appealing to more people - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35748205 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35748205 - April 2023 (9 comments) Diamonds Suck (2006) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26698511 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26698511 - April 2021 (53 comments) Diamonds aren’t special and neither is love - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25978139 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25978139 - Jan 2021 (90 comments) Artificial diamonds creation process generating lonsdaleite - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25158428 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25158428 - Nov 2020 (61 comments) Diamonds Are Bullshit - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25059605 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25059605 - Nov 2020 (27 comments) Billions of dollars of unsold diamonds are piling up around the world - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23502201 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23502201 - June 2020 (104 comments) Shaking Up the Diamond Industry - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22209364 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22209364 - Feb 2020 (120 comments) Diamonds Keep Getting Cheaper - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21522898 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21522898 - Nov 2019 (389 comments) Have You Ever Tried to Sell a Diamond? (1982) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20818618 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20818618 - Aug 2019 (237 comments) The Elite Club That Rules the Diamond World Is Starting to Crack - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20555503 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20555503 - July 2019 (200 comments) Would You Pay $32,709 for a Lab-Grown Diamond? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19287565 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19287565 - March 2019 (34 comments) Diamonds Suck (2006) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17186457 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17186457 - May 2018 (215 comments) Diamonds Are Bullshit - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17184539 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17184539 - May 2018 (45 comments) De Beers admits defeat over man-made diamonds - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17183603 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17183603 - May 2018 (439 comments) Lab-grown diamonds threaten viability of the real gems - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16551147 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16551147 - March 2018 (301 comments) Lab-Grown Diamonds Come into Their Own - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13085273 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13085273 - Dec 2016 (103 comments) Diamonds Suck (2006) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12944464 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12944464 - Nov 2016 (576 comments) A Lab-Grown Diamond Is Forever - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11903409 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11903409 - June 2016 (106 comments) What the diamond industry is really selling - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11099809 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11099809 - Feb 2016 (83 comments) Diamonds Suck (2006) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10834567 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10834567 - Jan 2016 (2 comments) Diamonds are Bullshit (2013) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9251952 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9251952 - March 2015 (75 comments) A Diamond Market No Longer Controlled By De Beers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7793386 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7793386 - May 2014 (111 comments) When Diamonds Are Dirt Cheap, Will They Still Dazzle? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7615712 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7615712 - April 2014 (70 comments) Diamonds Suck - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6868968 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6868968 - Dec 2013 (3 comments) Diamonds Are Bullshit - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6331565 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6331565 - Sept 2013 (8 comments) Diamonds Are Bullshit - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5403988 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5403988 - March 2013 (734 comments) Ask HN: How have HN readers bought diamond engagement rings? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4971735 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4971735 - Dec 2012 (25 comments) Have You Ever Tried to Sell a Diamond? (1982) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4535611 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4535611 - Sept 2012 (225 comments) Have you ever tried to sell a diamond? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1405698 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1405698 - June 2010 (85 comments) Have you ever tried to sell a diamond? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1110283 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1110283 - Feb 2010 (76 comments) The Facts About Diamonds (and why I don’t like De Beers) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1109318 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1109318 - Feb 2010 (41 comments) De Beers profits fall 92% - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=722115 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=722115 - July 2009 (25 comments) Diamonds on Demand - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=330749 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=330749 - Oct 2008 (16 comments)
zahlman 1y ago
> But some experts stress there is still a difference. > Graham Pearson, professor with the University of Alberta's department of earth and atmospheric sciences, says that the natural formation of diamonds deep underground results in a "complexity" you can't get with the lab-grown variety. Okay; but why should I aesthetically prefer this?
- kstrauser 1y ago
  Yep. In the context of what should be a very simple crystal structure, "complexity" is another word for "defect".
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - OJFord 1y ago
    Exactly, at the same price yes the natural stone will have more 'complexity' and be lower-graded than the lab one as a result.
  - chihuahua 1y ago
    For decades, the marketing message was that less defects = better = more expensive. Apparently, when lab-grown diamonds came along, that had to be inverted: now, lab-grown = less defects = "less character" The whole thing is such an obvious marketing exercise with very little to back it up (as evidenced by the extremely low resale value of diamonds)
- cubefox 1y ago
  Better question: Why should you aesthetically prefer a diamond to cheap glass?
  - masfuerte 1y ago
    Because they don't look the same. Not even a little bit. Glass doesn't sparkle.
deadbabe 1y ago
If you pulled a diamond from the diamond rains on Neptune and brought it to Earth, you’re telling me it should be worth the same as a shitty lab grown?
- pkoird 1y ago
  If the chemical composition is the same, yes.
owenversteeg 1y ago
My company buys a lot of diamonds - for industrial use, not jewelry related :) The falling price of synthetic diamonds has been a huge boon. Several processes I do right now would be impractical without the use of "low-cost" diamonds - air quotes because they are still not exactly cheap. So it is obviously in my interest for consumers to switch to lab-grown diamonds and thus drive volume up and prices down. At the same time, I do understand the sentiment around wanting a mined diamond. The whole idea behind a diamond engagement ring is a marketing exercise backed up by a cartel, so if you're gonna participate in the ritual you might as well do it right. There are silly backstories buried in every part of human society today, from "some king did it and everyone copied him" to "this piece of land got special status a thousand years ago which accidentally let it become its own country" to "my grandmother was too poor to do XYZ the right way so we still do it her way." That's just part and parcel of being human.
- ourmandave 1y ago
  Calling them "lab-grown" is part of the propaganda against them. Like they're alive or there's some weird chemicals involved. It's not silly stories when evil corporations with deep pockets are outright lying, like ads with doctors smoking.
  - owenversteeg 1y ago
    Again, I'm all for lab grown diamonds for both consumer and industrial use. I think "lab-grown" is a pretty neutral term, and it is also scientifically accurate in the case of CVD and other diamonds where the process really is "growing" the diamonds. There are certainly other terms for them that sound more derogatory such as "synthetic" or "artificial" diamond.
    - slavik81 1y ago
      On the radio, they advertise them as artisan-crafted diamonds.
      - 1y ago
milchek 1y ago
As it should, diamonds were made artificially scarce and controlled by monopoly: “The major investors in the diamond mines realized that they had no alternative but to merge their interests into a single entity that would be powerful enough to control production and perpetuate the illusion of scarcity of diamonds. The instrument they created, in 1888, was called De Beers Consolidated Mines, Ltd., incorporated in South Africa…” From the classic 80s article “Have you ever tried to sell a diamond” - https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-you-ever-tried-to-sell-a-diamond/304575/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-yo...
BobAliceInATree 1y ago
Synthetic diamonds are so cheap now that even de Beers closed their online store. https://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonydemarco/2025/05/09/de-beers-to-close-lightbox-its-lab-grown-diamond-jewelry-brand/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonydemarco/2025/05/09/de-be...
ridgeguy 1y ago
Two points just FYI in thinking about the sudden shift to synthetic diamonds from natural stones: • Scale: I'm aware of one company that operates over 700 CVD systems that each make 25 stones/run - there are at least 3 others of similar volume; • Cost: the variable cost of making a 1ct finished brilliant (D-E,F-VVSI) is <$30US. Obviously, that cost is for ex-US production. See, for example, the recent demise of de Beers' Lightbox growth center in Oregon. Naturals simply can't compete. They are forming a completely separate market involving a much smaller, extremely wealthy clientele. The business case for synthetics is deteriorating as production costs bottom out and margins decline in an ongoing race to the bottom.
wonderwonder 1y ago
I have a visceral hatred for the diamond industry, and its based on nothing except my shock at how expensive a shiny rock is and the effectiveness of the advertising campaign around them. I remember going to buy my wife an engagement ring and just being incredulous at the price. I completely understand supply and demand but a lot of the supply limitation is artificial. Its one of the few things I am emotional about, I simply loath the diamond industry and the entire sham that you have to spend x number of months salary on a rock to prove to the world that you love someone. They built such an incredible narrative where people would judge each other based on the size of a rock or that it had to be of X clarity or you had to spend so much to prove whatever. To this day I change the channel when I hear a commercial for a diamond store on the radio and its been 20+ years. I am so excited about lab grown diamonds.
- Liftyee 1y ago
  Personally felt this too, though I think I hate dishonest marketers and adversarial business-customer relations more broadly. For some reason my ideal vision of capitalism is where a company simply makes a product that solves customers' problem and makes them happy, receiving a fair amount of money in return for their efforts. No corporate propaganda campaigns or anti-consumer shenanigans needed, just a solid [thing] for people who need [thing]. Interested to hear potential problems with this approach in the replies.
  - wonderwonder 1y ago
    I think that what you have described for the most part is just basic capitalism which I agree with as generally competitors drive prices down. The diamond industry has some how been allowed to conspire to artificially limit supply and raise prices to a level even the oil industry has not been able to achieve.
    - Liftyee 1y ago
      Curious as I'm not too familiar - if what I've described is basic capitalism, then what is today's system like in the US? Need to look into the differences so I can be precise when debating these things. New metaphors: "What trim level of capitalism have we got?" "`class ImperfectCapitalism implements Capitalism`" "RNG capitalism modifiers"
xbmcuser 1y ago
Like most good things happening in the world now days this is also because of China they were not under the same de beers marketing magic rest of the world was once the Chinese abandoned mined diamonds prices have catered. Btw Blood diamonds was also a successful marketing ploy of De beers to keep out the competition. It was weird to me how western countries only cared about the exploitation of diamonds.
throwpoaster 1y ago
Extraction of natural diamonds can fund development of some of the poorest communities in the world. [0] As the jewelry industry repositions around the uniqueness of natural diamonds I would expect to see more promotion of this kind of socially responsible production. [0]: https://peacediamond.com/ https://peacediamond.com/
- eddiewithzato 1y ago
  So can many other dangerous and environmentally exploited industries. Doesn’t mean it’s a good thing
akomtu 1y ago
Diamonds are simply NFTs of the real life: worthless coupons that only prove that you've wasted a few tens of thousand dollars. They prove your social status. The battle for purity or the origin is a distraction. For the same reason, diamonds as a gift make sense only if they are expensive.
- Liftyee 1y ago
  Agree, though it should be noted that diamonds are far from the only things like this - other questionably useful social status symbols include "luxury" fashion (low quality made in low wage countries...), or even just having the latest iPhone
Animats 1y ago
The diamond industry got into this mess by insisting that the best diamonds were "flawless". This put them into competition with the semiconductor materials industry, which routinely manufactures crystals with lattice defect levels well below anything seen in natural diamonds. The best synthetic diamonds now have below 1 part per billion atoms in the wrong place.[1] Those are for radiation detectors, quantum electronics, and such. Nobody needs a jewel that flawless. De Beers tried to squelch the first US startup to turn out gemstones in production by intimidating the founder. The founder was a retired US Army brigadier general (2 silver stars earned in combat) and wasn't intimidated. That was back in 2011, and since then it's been all downhill for natural diamonds. De Beers later tried building synthetic diamond detectors. There are simple detectors for detecting cubic zirconia and such, but separating synthetic and natural diamonds is tough. The current approach is to hit the diamond with a burst of UV, turn off the UV and then capture an image. The spectrum of the afterglow indicates impurities in the diamond. The latest De Beers testing machine [2] is looking for nitrogen atoms embedded in the diamond, which is seen more in natural diamonds than synthetics. The synthetics are better than the naturals. Presumably synthetic manufacturers could add some nitrogen if they wanted to bother. This is the latest De Beers machine in their losing battle against synthetics. They've had DiamondScan, DiamondView, DiamondSure, SynthDetect, and now DiamondProof. Even the most elaborate devices have a false alarm rate of about 5%.[3] [1] https://e6-prd-cdn-01.azureedge.net/mediacontainer/medialibraries/element6/documents/datasheet/elsc_series_datasheet_en.pdf?ext=.pdf https://e6-prd-cdn-01.azureedge.net/mediacontainer/medialibr... [2] https://verification.debeersgroup.com/instrument/diamondproof/ https://verification.debeersgroup.com/instrument/diamondproo... [3] https://www.naturaldiamonds.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/ASSURE-2.0-Fact-Sheet-DiamondProof.pdf https://www.naturaldiamonds.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/A...
- jppope 1y ago
  who was the retired US Army brigadier general?
  - nkurz 1y ago
    I don't know anything about the industry, but I thought it would be a good test for the state of AI. I put Animats' comment and your question into DeepSeek R1 and it said (I think correctly) that the company was Gemesis and the retiree was Carter Clarke Jr: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemesis.
fnord77 1y ago
When can we have diamond windows ?
- ethan_smith 1y ago
  Diamond windows already exist for specialized applications like infrared optics and high-pressure research, but widespread consumer use remains limited by manufacturing costs and brittleness despite lab-grown diamonds reducing prices.
  - KolmogorovComp 1y ago
    Thanks GPT
ReptileMan 1y ago
I love synthetic diamonds. The whole investment in chasing big diamonds thing let to the situation where diamond grit abrasive right now is extremely cheap for the quality and quantity of abrasion you get. Up to the point where full size homemade casted diamond whetstones are a thing. For under 100$
sgt101 1y ago
Interestingly it's been possible to make rubies for years, 150 years ago rubies were far more prized than diamonds, but then fell out of fashion, mostly because diamonds were in good supply and there was a big marketing campaign for them. Consequently lab grown rubies are pretty cheap - maybe $50 carat, but here's the thing.. natural rubies are still expensive because they are rare and contain impurities that give them a glow/fire that is prized. But here's the fun thing. You can destroy the value of a natural ruby by cooking it. If you heat it in the right way the impurities will anneal out and you will be left with a near flawless stone that appears to be artificial! Bye bye value :)
liampulles 1y ago
The ethics of participating economically in blood diamonds is one thing - the other side of it is millions of couples who have been socially pressured for generations into putting good money into a massively depreciating asset. I hope that declines.
- jajko 1y ago
  Not sure where you live, but that social pressure was/is very soft in Europe. Absolutely nothing happens if there is no diamond, its just people self-pressing themselves in some variant of childhood-like mentality and competitiveness. In my family line, nobody ever bought anything like that. For any man, for past few decades (at least 3-4) a woman insisting at all costs on big shiny natural diamond is a massive red flag for undesirable personality traits. Given stable divorce rates and general misery on all sides before and after that red flags are and should be considered very intensively. Once physical attraction wanes, only personalities remain.
  - cindyllm 1y ago
    [dead]
  - wink 1y ago
    I am constantly wondering if we're just the outliers here in my German city (I don't think I know anyone who has ever mentioned a diamond ring in my presence, no matter which generation) or if it's just an American thing. Also I couldn't tell you if we're talking 1,000 USD or 20,000 USD :P
liul77360 1y ago
[dead]
alberth 1y ago
Is this really De Beers’ own doing? Think about it like a supermarket—at scale, it’s not practical for grocery stores to source fruits and vegetables from the wild (like natural diamonds). Wasn’t it inevitable that “farm-grown” produce (lab-grown diamonds) would become the long-term solution?
__turbobrew__ 1y ago
My wife wanted diamond earrings. I could get flawless lab-grown diamonds for 1/10 the cost of natural diamonds. Furthermore lab-grown diamonds are not discernible from natural diamonds, so there really is no reason to get a natural diamond unless you care about providence.
1659447091 1y ago
If any one is really set on having a natural diamond, I highly recommend taking a trip to Crater of Diamonds State Park[0], in the middle of nowhere -- I mean, Murfreesboro, Arkansas. Pay an entrance fee and bring or rent your own equipment and keep any diamonds you find. It's a 37 acre field that was once a volcanic crater. I never found any personally, but it was surprisingly fun and worth the detour if driving through the state. I also don't care much for diamonds, but if I ever find one it'd be pretty special. More than 600 diamonds are found each year according to wiki [0] https://www.arkansasstateparks.com/parks/crater-diamonds-state-park https://www.arkansasstateparks.com/parks/crater-diamonds-sta...
MITboy12 1y ago
"Trace amounts of thorium and uranium enter natural diamonds during crystallisation process also emit gamma radiation, which can lead to various diseases and chronic health conditions such as thyroid disorders, blood diseases, cancer, and neurological problems."
MITboy12 1y ago
When you buy a natural diamond, you're also buying a risk of cancer and various diseases, because all natural diamonds contain trace amounts of thorium and uranium. This is due to the fact that diamond crystallization occurs deep within the Earth's mantle, where these radioactive elements are naturally present
- defrost 1y ago
  Trace amounts of thorium and uranium are literally everywhere on the land surface of the planet. This is moot sans the "source that you quoted" and some stats and studies. For interest, Australia: https://www.ga.gov.au/bigobj/GA13928.pdf https://www.ga.gov.au/bigobj/GA13928.pdf India, Mali, Fiji, Africa, Americas, etc have similar trace amounts across their surfaces that are detectable from an aircraft 80m above ground level traveling at 70 m/second. "Radiation: it's everywhere"

297 points by geox 1y ago

It's all just a crystalline form of carbon. Regardless of how it was made, one is just as much "forever" as the other. The real major difference is in the labor practices being used. De Beers had a good run as a cartel but as they say, "the jig is up"

close04 1y ago
I’m not sure diamonds are popular because of what they are but what they represent. Every gem out there is “the crystalline form” of something. Diamonds are (were?) the expensive crystalline form. And plenty of people equate “expensive” with love, or care, or respect. Even if the same people would never be able to tell the difference between diamond and cubic zirconium, knowing it’s the cheap one makes it less valuable in other ways. This depends on the person, of course. If it’s not diamonds it will have to be something else that shows “I put my money where my mouth is”. A simple metal wedding band is the same wherever it’s made but a famous jeweler will charge an arm and a leg more than your local shop for the same amount of precious metal, same effort, and same result. And yet Tiffany’s isn’t going out of business for the same reason. It’s what it represents. I am curious to see if tastes or fashion shift towards other rarer or more expensive gems not yet manufactured cheaply en masse.
- AnimalMuppet 1y ago
  I could see thinking about this differently. As people quit believing in God, they stop thinking in terms of "God brought us together/we were made for each other" (though they stop thinking that a generation or two later than they stop believing in God). If you think that we made this relationship, then maybe a lab-grown (human made) diamond fits? (Though it may take an advertising campaign before people see it that way.) Disclaimer: I'm not a sociologist. This is just my speculation about how the dynamic could change.
- jqpabc123 1y ago
  I'd argue that a person obsessed with cost really isn't focused on what it represents. For those obsessed with materialism, real satisfaction is out of reach. There is always bigger, better and more expensive. Personally, I would tend to reconsider any long term relationship with such a person.
  - close04 1y ago
    For anyone appreciating expensive things, giving diamonds represent the willingness to fulfill that desire. It’s easy to conflate that with love, at least for a while, even when you aren’t a materialistic person. Jewelry is the pinnacle of “just monetary value”. Unlike almost any other possession, a car, a house, clothes, etc. jewelry serves no practical purpose, only shows the willingness or ability to spend for it. The more you spend, the more valuable the gesture, the more you cared to please the recipient. Materialistic people have the same feelings you have. Those just happened to be triggered by different values than yours.
    - Muromec 1y ago
      The other purpose of jewerly is looking nice. That's difficult to comprehend, but it's the actual important thing for people who's most expensive piece of everyday wear isn't their phone.
      - close04 1y ago
        Nothing supports your "looking nice" argument like finishing it with the "most expensive piece of everyday wear". If you want something nice, you get something nice, not something expensive. That's difficult to comprehend for people who measure niceness in a visibly displayed price tag.
        Muromec 1y ago
        It's a shoker, but nice things that are done by people who love making them have a tendency to be expensive.
Incipient 1y ago
I'd disagree with that. The prospect of a natural diamond is that it's unique (I mean, not visibly I suppose) and millions of years old. I'd say it's like AI music or art - something made by a machine, for some reason, just doesn't have any "soul" to it. I'm not actually entirely convinced in my argument, but there is something there...
- whatevaa 1y ago
  There is no "soul" in either pieces of rock.
  - yen223 1y ago
    Tired: rocks don't have souls Wired: we will put a soul in this rock for $10,000
    - cantor_S_drug 1y ago
      Spintronics: Could diamonds be a computer's best friend? For the first time, physicists have demonstrated that information can flow through a diamond wire. In the experiment, electrons did not flow through diamond as they do in traditional electronics; rather, they stayed in place and passed along a magnetic effect called "spin" to each other down the wire -- like a row of sports spectators doing "the wave." Spin could one day be used to transmit data in computer circuits -- and this new experiment revealed that diamond transmits spin better than most metals in which researchers have previously observed the effect. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/03/140323151718.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/03/140323151718.h...
- jqpabc123 1y ago
  If you can't tell the difference by either looking or listening, I'd argue they both have a similar amount of "soul". And thus, any distinction between them exists mainly in your head.
  - lightedman 1y ago
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
shvdle 1y ago
The entire point of a diamond is that it’s expensive. People buy them for status. Otherwise there are lots of gems that are much more prettier, but they are not as expensive. It’s like saying people will stop buying branded clothes because unbranded clothes have the same or even a higher quality for a fraction of the price. Kinda misses the point.
- jqpabc123 1y ago
  It’s like saying people will stop buying branded clothes because unbranded clothes have the same or even a higher quality for a fraction of the price. People buy inferior, counterfeit merchandise all the time because they can't tell the difference. But there is nothing inferior or counterfeit about a manmade diamond. It is *exactly* the same material as a natural one.
  - shvdle 1y ago
    You miss the point. The only reason to buy a diamond is that it is expensive. It doesn’t matter if you could buy the same thing cheaper. It doesn’t matter that there are better gems that are cheaper. You buy the diamond to show that you can afford it. You buy someone a diamond to prove how much they are worth to you. Yes, you can buy a man-made diamond the same you can buy counterfeit branded clothes. That only shows that you’re tasteless and that you can’t afford the real thing.
    - jqpabc123 1y ago
      You miss the point. If it is strictly about the money, a larger man made diamond can easily cost just as much as a smaller natural one --- while instantly conveying to the untrained eye the appearance of being more expensive.
      - michaelt 1y ago
        I suspect there is pressure in the opposite direction these days. If you see someone wearing a 6-carat diamond, you know it's either a $100,000 natural diamond, or a $4,000 lab-grown diamond. And you'll assume it's the latter, as far more people can afford the latter. On the other hand, a 1-carat diamond would be more like $2000 natural, $300 lab-grown, making it far more believable that it was natural.
mathiaspoint 1y ago
It was never about the rocks. Like nearly everything else in the economy it's really about attention.
- jqpabc123 1y ago
  The attention from a man made diamond is indistinguishable from a natural one to most people.
  - cwmoore 1y ago
    I think this is true, manmade diamonds are valuable in a way that counterfeit currency is not. But "most people" may not be as important as people who know the story of, and the person wearing, the gem, and provenance is always a meaningful point of reference for expensive luxury items. My screenshots of NFTs are pixel accurate, but not exactly as valuable as the real thing.
    - mathiaspoint 1y ago
      Yeah it goes both ways too. As they say it's the thought that counts.
    - dplgk 1y ago
      It seems we've all come down to the reality that the screenshot of an nft is exactly as valuable as the nft.
xhkkffbf 1y ago
I've bought some lab created diamonds made with CVD. THey're great. If anything, they're too clear. I recommend to all newly engaged couples to buy them and save the money for more important things like raising children or buying a home. And if you look on eBay, you can get CVD diamonds for even less. (At a bit of a risk, of course.)
- JKCalhoun 1y ago
  Any reputable places to get them that you know of?
  - xhkkffbf 1y ago
    No. But some of the eBay prices are so cheap that you can just risk it. And if it looks nice, that's all you can ask.
ooterness 1y ago
Like all other forms of carbon, diamonds will combust in the presence of oxygen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfa-cKDzYSg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfa-cKDzYSg
- dehrmann 1y ago
  You can also use the resulting CO2 to do CO2 things. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0wvDwSnzcw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0wvDwSnzcw

jxntb73 1y ago

I'm still conflicted about this. I understand the cost and blood diamond debate and largely agree. But there is something about diamonds that makes them divine: carbon atoms crystallizing and bonding over millions to billions of years to form structures, rated on a scale of color, clarity, cut, and weight. It's like gold, primarily forged in cosmic events like supernova explosions. Naaaaah let's just make it in a lab it looks the same. People are being priced out of art and beauty and it's a shame economics and corruption make real diamonds dirty.

chasil 1y ago
Unfortunately, De Beers controls the natural diamond supply, and they leave much to be desired in corporate ethics. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Beers#Legal_issues https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Beers#Legal_issues
- jxntb73 1y ago
  And the US holds 50-70% of the total world market capitalization, and yet here we are. Believe 15A and 19A as much as you can believe De Beers' 'Building Forever 2030 Goal's
K0balt 1y ago
It’s not just that, the economics of diamonds is completely fabricated. Idk about these days, but debeers used to buy up the vast majority of mined diamond, not to sell but to hoard or destroy them to maintain scarcity. I’m not even sure that all of these recent stories about lab created diamonds to come out aren’t actually a PR pitch to advertise “natural” diamonds, an effort to emphasise the difference in the public psyche. Anything public facing that positions diamonds as expensive, desirable, or valuable can usually be traced back to the cartel. It’s super common in movies and other media.
- jxntb73 1y ago
  I'm not excusing nor rationalizing prices and the economics, obviously they hoard and manupulate the rates. Can't argue with how dark that crap must be. All I'm saying is real diamonds are 'better' and everyone knows it. Humans are emotional and that's a good thing. The manipulation of it is the bad thing. Trying to deny yourself of your emotions like a monk and yet still wishing for the iconic symbolic significance having 3month salary storybook ring, what are we doing here. Pay more for the real thing because life is real.

Jedd 1y ago

This story - Diamonds are Bullshit - comes up regularly, and I bookmarked it back in 2013 because it's so good. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5403988 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5403988 There is nothing to miss about the impending death of the 'diamond industry'. (Oh, the link is broken on the HN 2013 story -- try this one: https://priceonomics.com/diamonds-are-bullshit/ https://priceonomics.com/diamonds-are-bullshit/ )

scoofy 1y ago
When I saw the headline I immediately thought: "couldn't have happened to nicer guys /s" Why is it that everyone seems to have a soft spot for industries that have some kind of monopoly, suddenly losing that monopoly.

sorenjan 1y ago

Apparently there's a big issue in Antwerp now that they're not allowed to import diamonds from Russia. Maybe they should stop fighting the synthetic diamonds and embrace them instead, as something guaranteed free of human suffering and war profiteering. But the whole industry hinges on manufactured demand, so they'd rather see the trade move to other countries I guess. https://eutoday.net/antwerps-diamond-industry-facing-an-existential-crisis/ https://eutoday.net/antwerps-diamond-industry-facing-an-exis...

cut3 1y ago

Ive been seeing this same type of article for decades now. I bought a 2 karrat flawless lab grown diamond in 2005 for around $2k, and according to this article that size sells for $3,500. Prices have increased it seems. I assumed they would drop as more were made.

jxntb73 1y ago
A price appreciation of about 75% over roughly 20 years.
Jedd 1y ago
The _new_ price has doubtless gone up, as inflationary valuation benefits to the manufacturer / vendors. The resale value of your item has gone down.
aetherson 1y ago
You shouldn't have gotten a 2 carat diamond that cheap at that time. Either you got a really great deal for some idiosyncratic reason or your recollection is off. Here's an example article from the era: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/business/2004/02/14/you-cant-tell-the-difference/bf641670-d37f-4e7d-a5e6-92fd1908d1a7/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/business/2004/02/14/y...
- Aurornis 1y ago
  I second this. There was no way to get a real, flawless, 2 carat lab grown diamond at the time for $2K. I hope the parent commenter wasn’t duped by someone selling fake diamonds.
hackingonempty 1y ago
According to the inflation calculator at bls.gov, $2000 in June 2005 has the same buying power as $3,317 in June 2025. So in real terms the price is about the same.
fallinghawks 1y ago
Inflation is probably why the number is higher now. A year ago I picked up a 1ct hearts and arrows (D/E. VVS1/2, IGI certificate) from AliExpress for $360. I can see the hearts and arrows and it tests as diamond. A few months later an article came out about how lab diamonds stack up against mined, and the author had also bought one with similar characteristics from AliExpress for even less. I just checked the same store and they're (not H&A but same other stats) running around $125 plus a $14 tariff.

ginko 1y ago

Diamonds need to become even cheaper. I want phone screens and glasses made out of single sheets of diamond. I want heatsinks and kitchen knives made out of the stuff.

js8 1y ago
Isn't diamond too brittle for all these applications?
- holowoodman 1y ago
  No. Less brittle than normal glass, but not as good as certain ceramics.
  - cubefox 1y ago
    Glass is very brittle, ceramics are also quite brittle. So the "no" isn't obvious.

conductr 1y ago

My wife is in the retail side of this market and I’ve had a lot of second hand familiarity with the transition to lab grown. What I find most interesting is the weight put on the ethical side. I think it’s overstated. When the issue became big, the Blood Diamond movie, sales of lab grown did not markedly increase. It took another decade or so to become more prevalent. What changed over that time is the price, IIRC the price was comparable to natural at the time the movie came out. Ethics were not compelling enough for most people at that price. When prices got about 50% of natural, it became much more compelling. Now that it’s around 10%, it’s practically so compelling that buying natural isn’t even a real consideration for many people. Anyways, I think people use the Blood Diamond talking point as a socially acceptable reason- it’s what they tell their parents and grandparents who might judge them- but in reality it’s almost completely a financial decision. If the tables were turned and natural diamonds became 1/10th the cost of lab grown, the market would completely flip back practically overnight.

aprilthird2021 1y ago
I actually predict in a few years it will become more fashionable to wear other jewels over diamonds given the rate the prices are crashing at. When diamonds are competitive with all the other gemstones, people start looking at those the same way too
- holowoodman 1y ago
  But as soon as that happens, other gemstones will come in cheaper artificial varieties as well.
  - SpicyLemonZest 1y ago
    The biggest diamond alternative today, moissanite, is always artificial - ironically because its natural form is so rare that it's not obtainable.
    - tsimionescu 1y ago

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

Henchman21 1y ago

Obligatory: “Have you ever tried to sell a diamond” https://cdn.theatlantic.com/media/archives/1982/02/249-2/132591340.pdf https://cdn.theatlantic.com/media/archives/1982/02/249-2/132...

dang 1y ago

Diamond threads are forever! Natural Diamonds Had a Rough Year - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42592424 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42592424 - Jan 2025 (6 comments) See how a lab-grown diamond is made - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42257245 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42257245 - Nov 2024 (49 comments) Synthetic diamonds are now purer, more beautiful, and cheaper than mined - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41488353 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41488353 - Sept 2024 (490 comments) Diamond industry 'in trouble' as lab-grown gemstones tank prices further - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40585594 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40585594 - June 2024 (39 comments) UK mining giant to offload De Beers diamond business - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40359867 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40359867 - May 2024 (7 comments) Forget billions of years: Researchers have grown diamonds in just 150 minutes - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40172784 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40172784 - April 2024 (61 comments) Lab Grown Diamonds Are Too Perfect for Their Own Good - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39298644 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39298644 - Feb 2024 (1 comment) Diamonds Suck - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38247300 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38247300 - Nov 2023 (163 comments) The diamond world takes radical steps to stop a pricing plunge - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38245762 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38245762 - Nov 2023 (588 comments) Diamonds are losing their allure - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37508058 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37508058 - Sept 2023 (128 comments) Have You Ever Tried to Sell a Diamond? (1982) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37396372 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37396372 - Sept 2023 (11 comments) What's the case for naturally mined diamonds anymore? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37275308 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37275308 - Aug 2023 (49 comments) Man-made diamonds are falling in price and appealing to more people - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35748205 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35748205 - April 2023 (9 comments) Diamonds Suck (2006) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26698511 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26698511 - April 2021 (53 comments) Diamonds aren’t special and neither is love - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25978139 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25978139 - Jan 2021 (90 comments) Artificial diamonds creation process generating lonsdaleite - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25158428 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25158428 - Nov 2020 (61 comments) Diamonds Are Bullshit - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25059605 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25059605 - Nov 2020 (27 comments) Billions of dollars of unsold diamonds are piling up around the world - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23502201 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23502201 - June 2020 (104 comments) Shaking Up the Diamond Industry - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22209364 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22209364 - Feb 2020 (120 comments) Diamonds Keep Getting Cheaper - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21522898 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21522898 - Nov 2019 (389 comments) Have You Ever Tried to Sell a Diamond? (1982) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20818618 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20818618 - Aug 2019 (237 comments) The Elite Club That Rules the Diamond World Is Starting to Crack - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20555503 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20555503 - July 2019 (200 comments) Would You Pay $32,709 for a Lab-Grown Diamond? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19287565 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19287565 - March 2019 (34 comments) Diamonds Suck (2006) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17186457 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17186457 - May 2018 (215 comments) Diamonds Are Bullshit - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17184539 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17184539 - May 2018 (45 comments) De Beers admits defeat over man-made diamonds - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17183603 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17183603 - May 2018 (439 comments) Lab-grown diamonds threaten viability of the real gems - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16551147 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16551147 - March 2018 (301 comments) Lab-Grown Diamonds Come into Their Own - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13085273 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13085273 - Dec 2016 (103 comments) Diamonds Suck (2006) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12944464 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12944464 - Nov 2016 (576 comments) A Lab-Grown Diamond Is Forever - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11903409 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11903409 - June 2016 (106 comments) What the diamond industry is really selling - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11099809 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11099809 - Feb 2016 (83 comments) Diamonds Suck (2006) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10834567 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10834567 - Jan 2016 (2 comments) Diamonds are Bullshit (2013) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9251952 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9251952 - March 2015 (75 comments) A Diamond Market No Longer Controlled By De Beers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7793386 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7793386 - May 2014 (111 comments) When Diamonds Are Dirt Cheap, Will They Still Dazzle? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7615712 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7615712 - April 2014 (70 comments) Diamonds Suck - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6868968 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6868968 - Dec 2013 (3 comments) Diamonds Are Bullshit - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6331565 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6331565 - Sept 2013 (8 comments) Diamonds Are Bullshit - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5403988 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5403988 - March 2013 (734 comments) Ask HN: How have HN readers bought diamond engagement rings? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4971735 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4971735 - Dec 2012 (25 comments) Have You Ever Tried to Sell a Diamond? (1982) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4535611 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4535611 - Sept 2012 (225 comments) Have you ever tried to sell a diamond? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1405698 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1405698 - June 2010 (85 comments) Have you ever tried to sell a diamond? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1110283 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1110283 - Feb 2010 (76 comments) The Facts About Diamonds (and why I don’t like De Beers) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1109318 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1109318 - Feb 2010 (41 comments) De Beers profits fall 92% - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=722115 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=722115 - July 2009 (25 comments) Diamonds on Demand - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=330749 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=330749 - Oct 2008 (16 comments)

zahlman 1y ago

> But some experts stress there is still a difference. > Graham Pearson, professor with the University of Alberta's department of earth and atmospheric sciences, says that the natural formation of diamonds deep underground results in a "complexity" you can't get with the lab-grown variety. Okay; but why should I aesthetically prefer this?

kstrauser 1y ago
Yep. In the context of what should be a very simple crystal structure, "complexity" is another word for "defect".
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- OJFord 1y ago
  Exactly, at the same price yes the natural stone will have more 'complexity' and be lower-graded than the lab one as a result.
- chihuahua 1y ago
  For decades, the marketing message was that less defects = better = more expensive. Apparently, when lab-grown diamonds came along, that had to be inverted: now, lab-grown = less defects = "less character" The whole thing is such an obvious marketing exercise with very little to back it up (as evidenced by the extremely low resale value of diamonds)
cubefox 1y ago
Better question: Why should you aesthetically prefer a diamond to cheap glass?
- masfuerte 1y ago
  Because they don't look the same. Not even a little bit. Glass doesn't sparkle.

deadbabe 1y ago

If you pulled a diamond from the diamond rains on Neptune and brought it to Earth, you’re telling me it should be worth the same as a shitty lab grown?

pkoird 1y ago
If the chemical composition is the same, yes.

owenversteeg 1y ago

My company buys a lot of diamonds - for industrial use, not jewelry related :) The falling price of synthetic diamonds has been a huge boon. Several processes I do right now would be impractical without the use of "low-cost" diamonds - air quotes because they are still not exactly cheap. So it is obviously in my interest for consumers to switch to lab-grown diamonds and thus drive volume up and prices down. At the same time, I do understand the sentiment around wanting a mined diamond. The whole idea behind a diamond engagement ring is a marketing exercise backed up by a cartel, so if you're gonna participate in the ritual you might as well do it right. There are silly backstories buried in every part of human society today, from "some king did it and everyone copied him" to "this piece of land got special status a thousand years ago which accidentally let it become its own country" to "my grandmother was too poor to do XYZ the right way so we still do it her way." That's just part and parcel of being human.

ourmandave 1y ago
Calling them "lab-grown" is part of the propaganda against them. Like they're alive or there's some weird chemicals involved. It's not silly stories when evil corporations with deep pockets are outright lying, like ads with doctors smoking.
- owenversteeg 1y ago
  Again, I'm all for lab grown diamonds for both consumer and industrial use. I think "lab-grown" is a pretty neutral term, and it is also scientifically accurate in the case of CVD and other diamonds where the process really is "growing" the diamonds. There are certainly other terms for them that sound more derogatory such as "synthetic" or "artificial" diamond.
  - slavik81 1y ago
    On the radio, they advertise them as artisan-crafted diamonds.
    - 1y ago

milchek 1y ago

As it should, diamonds were made artificially scarce and controlled by monopoly: “The major investors in the diamond mines realized that they had no alternative but to merge their interests into a single entity that would be powerful enough to control production and perpetuate the illusion of scarcity of diamonds. The instrument they created, in 1888, was called De Beers Consolidated Mines, Ltd., incorporated in South Africa…” From the classic 80s article “Have you ever tried to sell a diamond” - https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-you-ever-tried-to-sell-a-diamond/304575/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-yo...

BobAliceInATree 1y ago

Synthetic diamonds are so cheap now that even de Beers closed their online store. https://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonydemarco/2025/05/09/de-beers-to-close-lightbox-its-lab-grown-diamond-jewelry-brand/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonydemarco/2025/05/09/de-be...

ridgeguy 1y ago

Two points just FYI in thinking about the sudden shift to synthetic diamonds from natural stones: • Scale: I'm aware of one company that operates over 700 CVD systems that each make 25 stones/run - there are at least 3 others of similar volume; • Cost: the variable cost of making a 1ct finished brilliant (D-E,F-VVSI) is <$30US. Obviously, that cost is for ex-US production. See, for example, the recent demise of de Beers' Lightbox growth center in Oregon. Naturals simply can't compete. They are forming a completely separate market involving a much smaller, extremely wealthy clientele. The business case for synthetics is deteriorating as production costs bottom out and margins decline in an ongoing race to the bottom.

wonderwonder 1y ago

I have a visceral hatred for the diamond industry, and its based on nothing except my shock at how expensive a shiny rock is and the effectiveness of the advertising campaign around them. I remember going to buy my wife an engagement ring and just being incredulous at the price. I completely understand supply and demand but a lot of the supply limitation is artificial. Its one of the few things I am emotional about, I simply loath the diamond industry and the entire sham that you have to spend x number of months salary on a rock to prove to the world that you love someone. They built such an incredible narrative where people would judge each other based on the size of a rock or that it had to be of X clarity or you had to spend so much to prove whatever. To this day I change the channel when I hear a commercial for a diamond store on the radio and its been 20+ years. I am so excited about lab grown diamonds.

Liftyee 1y ago
Personally felt this too, though I think I hate dishonest marketers and adversarial business-customer relations more broadly. For some reason my ideal vision of capitalism is where a company simply makes a product that solves customers' problem and makes them happy, receiving a fair amount of money in return for their efforts. No corporate propaganda campaigns or anti-consumer shenanigans needed, just a solid [thing] for people who need [thing]. Interested to hear potential problems with this approach in the replies.
- wonderwonder 1y ago
  I think that what you have described for the most part is just basic capitalism which I agree with as generally competitors drive prices down. The diamond industry has some how been allowed to conspire to artificially limit supply and raise prices to a level even the oil industry has not been able to achieve.
  - Liftyee 1y ago
    Curious as I'm not too familiar - if what I've described is basic capitalism, then what is today's system like in the US? Need to look into the differences so I can be precise when debating these things. New metaphors: "What trim level of capitalism have we got?" "`class ImperfectCapitalism implements Capitalism`" "RNG capitalism modifiers"

xbmcuser 1y ago

Like most good things happening in the world now days this is also because of China they were not under the same de beers marketing magic rest of the world was once the Chinese abandoned mined diamonds prices have catered. Btw Blood diamonds was also a successful marketing ploy of De beers to keep out the competition. It was weird to me how western countries only cared about the exploitation of diamonds.

throwpoaster 1y ago

Extraction of natural diamonds can fund development of some of the poorest communities in the world. [0] As the jewelry industry repositions around the uniqueness of natural diamonds I would expect to see more promotion of this kind of socially responsible production. [0]: https://peacediamond.com/ https://peacediamond.com/

eddiewithzato 1y ago
So can many other dangerous and environmentally exploited industries. Doesn’t mean it’s a good thing

akomtu 1y ago

Diamonds are simply NFTs of the real life: worthless coupons that only prove that you've wasted a few tens of thousand dollars. They prove your social status. The battle for purity or the origin is a distraction. For the same reason, diamonds as a gift make sense only if they are expensive.

Liftyee 1y ago
Agree, though it should be noted that diamonds are far from the only things like this - other questionably useful social status symbols include "luxury" fashion (low quality made in low wage countries...), or even just having the latest iPhone

Animats 1y ago

The diamond industry got into this mess by insisting that the best diamonds were "flawless". This put them into competition with the semiconductor materials industry, which routinely manufactures crystals with lattice defect levels well below anything seen in natural diamonds. The best synthetic diamonds now have below 1 part per billion atoms in the wrong place.[1] Those are for radiation detectors, quantum electronics, and such. Nobody needs a jewel that flawless. De Beers tried to squelch the first US startup to turn out gemstones in production by intimidating the founder. The founder was a retired US Army brigadier general (2 silver stars earned in combat) and wasn't intimidated. That was back in 2011, and since then it's been all downhill for natural diamonds. De Beers later tried building synthetic diamond detectors. There are simple detectors for detecting cubic zirconia and such, but separating synthetic and natural diamonds is tough. The current approach is to hit the diamond with a burst of UV, turn off the UV and then capture an image. The spectrum of the afterglow indicates impurities in the diamond. The latest De Beers testing machine [2] is looking for nitrogen atoms embedded in the diamond, which is seen more in natural diamonds than synthetics. The synthetics are better than the naturals. Presumably synthetic manufacturers could add some nitrogen if they wanted to bother. This is the latest De Beers machine in their losing battle against synthetics. They've had DiamondScan, DiamondView, DiamondSure, SynthDetect, and now DiamondProof. Even the most elaborate devices have a false alarm rate of about 5%.[3] [1] https://e6-prd-cdn-01.azureedge.net/mediacontainer/medialibraries/element6/documents/datasheet/elsc_series_datasheet_en.pdf?ext=.pdf https://e6-prd-cdn-01.azureedge.net/mediacontainer/medialibr... [2] https://verification.debeersgroup.com/instrument/diamondproof/ https://verification.debeersgroup.com/instrument/diamondproo... [3] https://www.naturaldiamonds.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/ASSURE-2.0-Fact-Sheet-DiamondProof.pdf https://www.naturaldiamonds.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/A...

jppope 1y ago
who was the retired US Army brigadier general?
- nkurz 1y ago
  I don't know anything about the industry, but I thought it would be a good test for the state of AI. I put Animats' comment and your question into DeepSeek R1 and it said (I think correctly) that the company was Gemesis and the retiree was Carter Clarke Jr: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemesis.

fnord77 1y ago

When can we have diamond windows ?

ethan_smith 1y ago
Diamond windows already exist for specialized applications like infrared optics and high-pressure research, but widespread consumer use remains limited by manufacturing costs and brittleness despite lab-grown diamonds reducing prices.
- KolmogorovComp 1y ago
  Thanks GPT

ReptileMan 1y ago

I love synthetic diamonds. The whole investment in chasing big diamonds thing let to the situation where diamond grit abrasive right now is extremely cheap for the quality and quantity of abrasion you get. Up to the point where full size homemade casted diamond whetstones are a thing. For under 100$

sgt101 1y ago

Interestingly it's been possible to make rubies for years, 150 years ago rubies were far more prized than diamonds, but then fell out of fashion, mostly because diamonds were in good supply and there was a big marketing campaign for them. Consequently lab grown rubies are pretty cheap - maybe $50 carat, but here's the thing.. natural rubies are still expensive because they are rare and contain impurities that give them a glow/fire that is prized. But here's the fun thing. You can destroy the value of a natural ruby by cooking it. If you heat it in the right way the impurities will anneal out and you will be left with a near flawless stone that appears to be artificial! Bye bye value :)

liampulles 1y ago

The ethics of participating economically in blood diamonds is one thing - the other side of it is millions of couples who have been socially pressured for generations into putting good money into a massively depreciating asset. I hope that declines.

jajko 1y ago
Not sure where you live, but that social pressure was/is very soft in Europe. Absolutely nothing happens if there is no diamond, its just people self-pressing themselves in some variant of childhood-like mentality and competitiveness. In my family line, nobody ever bought anything like that. For any man, for past few decades (at least 3-4) a woman insisting at all costs on big shiny natural diamond is a massive red flag for undesirable personality traits. Given stable divorce rates and general misery on all sides before and after that red flags are and should be considered very intensively. Once physical attraction wanes, only personalities remain.
- cindyllm 1y ago
  [dead]
- wink 1y ago
  I am constantly wondering if we're just the outliers here in my German city (I don't think I know anyone who has ever mentioned a diamond ring in my presence, no matter which generation) or if it's just an American thing. Also I couldn't tell you if we're talking 1,000 USD or 20,000 USD :P

liul77360 1y ago

[dead]

alberth 1y ago

Is this really De Beers’ own doing? Think about it like a supermarket—at scale, it’s not practical for grocery stores to source fruits and vegetables from the wild (like natural diamonds). Wasn’t it inevitable that “farm-grown” produce (lab-grown diamonds) would become the long-term solution?

__turbobrew__ 1y ago

My wife wanted diamond earrings. I could get flawless lab-grown diamonds for 1/10 the cost of natural diamonds. Furthermore lab-grown diamonds are not discernible from natural diamonds, so there really is no reason to get a natural diamond unless you care about providence.

1659447091 1y ago

If any one is really set on having a natural diamond, I highly recommend taking a trip to Crater of Diamonds State Park[0], in the middle of nowhere -- I mean, Murfreesboro, Arkansas. Pay an entrance fee and bring or rent your own equipment and keep any diamonds you find. It's a 37 acre field that was once a volcanic crater. I never found any personally, but it was surprisingly fun and worth the detour if driving through the state. I also don't care much for diamonds, but if I ever find one it'd be pretty special. More than 600 diamonds are found each year according to wiki [0] https://www.arkansasstateparks.com/parks/crater-diamonds-state-park https://www.arkansasstateparks.com/parks/crater-diamonds-sta...

MITboy12 1y ago

"Trace amounts of thorium and uranium enter natural diamonds during crystallisation process also emit gamma radiation, which can lead to various diseases and chronic health conditions such as thyroid disorders, blood diseases, cancer, and neurological problems."

MITboy12 1y ago

When you buy a natural diamond, you're also buying a risk of cancer and various diseases, because all natural diamonds contain trace amounts of thorium and uranium. This is due to the fact that diamond crystallization occurs deep within the Earth's mantle, where these radioactive elements are naturally present

defrost 1y ago
Trace amounts of thorium and uranium are literally everywhere on the land surface of the planet. This is moot sans the "source that you quoted" and some stats and studies. For interest, Australia: https://www.ga.gov.au/bigobj/GA13928.pdf https://www.ga.gov.au/bigobj/GA13928.pdf India, Mali, Fiji, Africa, Americas, etc have similar trace amounts across their surfaces that are detectable from an aircraft 80m above ground level traveling at 70 m/second. "Radiation: it's everywhere"