17 ms·

Airbnb is in midlife crisis mode

• thomasjudge 1y ago
  https://archive.is/yYdut https://archive.is/yYdut
• spicyusername 1y ago
  reinvention of Airbnb I cannot for the life of me figure out why these companies don't just stick to their core. AirBnB provides an amazing service, the ability to painlessly book hotels that feel like houses. I guarantee you they are not going to be the next Apple or Microsoft, they're instead just going to dilute the value of their core business chasing things that aren't going to work, instead of focusing on their core service, and then in so many years time they will become irrelevant rather than inevitable.
  • elteto 1y ago
    Because the writing is sort of on the wall for airbnb's current business model. Local regulations are finally catching up to them, limiting new listings or applying the same taxes and fees applied to regular hotels. And airbnb's are not cheaper anymore, and many times not any more convenient than a hotel, due crappy hosts and their excessive fees and regulations. Airbnb is still a great option if the location is under served by normal hotels, or if you are traveling with families so you want to have a kitchen/amenities. But otherwise I almost exclusively book hotels now.
    • enos_feedler 1y ago
      For travel it’s just an option and always will be. Thats okay because the travel use case only hits most people once or twice a year. The future of Airbnb was and always will be using that option as entry point into your life at home. The app update and launch into these lifestyle categories are the starting point of this. They chose to stick experiences and services as a root choice in the mobile app, not something that is attached to a booking or stay you already have. While I expect the major use case to be using these new services during a stay, the app design shows they are paving a future where you take some of what you loved about your airbnb stay back home with you.
      • bigstrat2003 1y ago
        > The future of Airbnb was and always will be using that option as entry point into your life at home. The future of Airbnb was and always will be a place to book stays in someone's home. These other things they are doing are a bad joke that will at best waste money for no gain, and at worst will cause their actual business to suffer. Trying to be all things to all people is idiocy, stick to what you're good at.
        • enos_feedler 1y ago
          a bad joke is a little harsh. It's worth trying to do a few new things. Having stayed in many airbnbs, I have wondered why they don't start adding a menu of things I can do once I am there. It feels like a space they could deploy some offerings and have the attention of their customer. There are bad jokes that cost a lot more money. Look at Apple Vision Pro. I think this is relatively cheap vs. their cash flow.
    • fellowniusmonk 1y ago
      I will always love AirBnB for driving down prices by breaking the hotel cartels in major cities. Over 10 years ago I rented a folding couch right off of Pearl ST. Boulder, CO. I stayed in the living room of someones 1 bedroom apartment for $300 a night instead of 1k+ a night for the equivalent at what amounted to a travel lodge motel. The prices there were out of control, no inventory, just awful. There are "plausible deniability" cartels everywhere, it's and it's always nice to see their grip on a region drop.
      • infecto 1y ago
        You paid $300 to stay on a fold out couch in a strangers living room. $1000 sounds like market price for a hotel room then.
        • nine_k 1y ago
          This is fair. But the market of barebones $300/night sleeping spots was underserved by hotels, and likely even hostels.
          • singleshot_ 1y ago
            Couldn't you stay in a nice $300/night hotel and just close your eyes when you walked by the pool?
      • lumost 1y ago
        Was there an event? I stayed at the historic Boulderado hotel for 350/night 13 years ago when Airbnb was getting started.
      • donnachangstein 1y ago
        You could have saved yourself $300 and slept on a bench in the central bus station for approximately the same level of accommodation.
        • handoflixue 1y ago
    • onlyrealcuzzo 1y ago
      AirBNB forced hotels to MASSIVELY upgrade. There used to be very few hotels with kitchenettes, any space really beside just a bed. There's way more suite and kitchenette options. Lots of people travel for longer than just a night or two, or to travel beyond just business, where you might want to be able to actually enjoy being in your private space. Hotels weren't really designed for this. They wanted you to never be in your room, and instead upselling you at the bar. Now, you can pretty easily find relatively affordable hotels that have many different types of rooms layouts for all different purposes. Now, that defeats a lot of the point in having an AirBNB. As you said, AirBNB is really only good if you're traveling somewhere with lousy hotel options, you're going to be staying somewhere for a long time, or traveling in a huge group, or you want to host a rager party or something...
      • nailer 1y ago
        I just wish hotels did a load of laundry for me. I’d pay 30 bucks but not 250.
        • somethoughts 1y ago
          Interestingly in Asia there are services that drive by hotels and pick up laundry bags and bring them back the next day washed and folded. Perhaps someone here on HN will read this here, make an app out of it, get funding and set up such a thing in the US.
      • 9283409232 1y ago
        Maybe I'm just not in the right cities but people say 2 things: Airbnbs are just as expensive as hotels and hotels have upgraded and I never see these two things as true. Airbnbs are typically cheaper than hotels and hotels, at least where I travel are still just a bed and a bath. Extended stay hotels have kitchenettes but extended stay hotels have always had kitchenettes and they were always the most expensive options because they are typically purchased by businessmen who have high budgets.
        • alabastervlog 1y ago
    • musicale 1y ago
      > Local regulations are finally catching up to them Dodging regulation and taxes was Airbnb's biggest competitive advantage. Regulatory entrepreneurship only works long-term if you can continue to dodge, or change, the law (either statutes or case law.) We will see what happens with all of the AI companies who claim fair use.
    • firesteelrain 1y ago
      You can get the same experience with VRBO. People list in both usually. AirBNB hasn’t cornered the market. Plus, VRBO or sites like VacationRentals pre dated AirBNB
      • enos_feedler 1y ago
        They actually don't list on both usually. Go lookup the data before you start making statements like that. In fact just go punch this into Google: "how much of airbnb inventory is unique?"
        • firesteelrain 1y ago
          I’m basing it on personal experience looking into renting a vacation rental and I have family who list on both. I am not going to google that because I know what is true
          • piva00 1y ago
            That's quite a broad assumption based on anecdotal evidence, you know what's true based on your few experiences renting and from a few listings your immediate family has, how can you even believe it's true based on this flimsy data? Quick edit: just searched on both VRBO and Airbnb for rentals in my city for the same date range, VRBO shows me 191 options, Airbnb shows 330 options.
            • firesteelrain 1y ago
              That's very anecdotal to your city. VRBO could be renting more than Airbnb. I am not going to go to extreme's to overly analyze this. I made my point.
              • piva00 1y ago
                My point already shows that your whole assumption is flawed, which was entirely my point... You don't need to argue but it'd be in good faith to at least acknowledge that your point has no basis at all, it's just your feeling, not a point. By the way, I live in a capital city in Europe so the discrepancies between listings would probably translate to many other places...
    • bcoates 1y ago
      I don't get airbnbs because they're cheaper, I get them because I want to rent something other than a hotel room. If best western had in-laws or 1br quadplexes I'd be happy to stay there, but most hotels I've stayed at are bad rooms in bad locations that almost always include at least one negative surprise every trip, and as you move up to more expensive ones they somehow get fancier but worse.
  • nadermx 1y ago
    I think paypal is probably an example of why this is probably imposible for a publicly traded company. Paypals revenues have been growing for ever. They basically do just one thing. But since the market in that one thing has a limit. The market can only price in a certain amount so the stock never grows. So they look for growth else where
  • popularonion 1y ago
    TLDR > It is also revitalizing an unsuccessful experiment the company began in 2016: offering bespoke local activities, or what it calls “experiences.” The next stage, launch date unspecified, involves making your profile on Airbnb so robust that it’s “almost like a passport,” as Chesky puts it > After that comes a deep immersion into AI: Inspired by his relationship with Altman, Chesky hopes to build the ultimate agent, a super-concierge who starts off handling customer service and eventually knows you well enough to plan your travel and maybe the rest of your life. That kind of makes sense to me - Airbnb must have learned to deal with trust/safety/reputation issues better than basically any other consumer app based company (except maybe Uber/Lyft) Looking at incumbents: Tour booking - TripAdvisor and Viator, not enough network effect Home services - Angie's List and Thumbtack, not enough network effect Events and concerts - Ticketmaster, enough said Classified ads - Facebook Marketplace, enough said Gym and fitness - Classpass, which I think is pretty good actually, but definitely going to be acquired or copied by Big Tech Volunteer event hosting - Meetup, anyone under 40 even remember that?
    • datadrivenangel 1y ago
      Luma is on it's way to being the new meetup
    • subpixel 1y ago
      “ Airbnb must have learned to deal with trust/safety/reputation issues better than basically any other consumer app based company” Not at all. Basically all reviews on Airbnb are positive bc of the threat of retaliation. Your reviews are like your social credit score, not worth threatening to post a negative but honest review.
      • dayjah 1y ago
        The Airbnb review process is so weird I can only assume it’s actually broken. Give someone three stars; which is “okay” (airbnbs own language) and you’re forced into specifying why a review (or part of a review) got three stars. The canned reasons are pretty negative (“felt unsafe”, etc). The “write in your own reason” option is limited to 50 characters. So you’re incentivized to select 4 or 5 stars which allows you to click through the review without any other entry requirements. I only give truthful reviews and I’ve only had three cases (out of ~70 stays) where the host was an asshat in response.
  • guywithahat 1y ago
    Because when companies stick to their core values, you end up with Yelp
  • toomuchtodo 1y ago
    Compression of their enterprise value and share price, governed by TAM. The transition from growth company to boring incumbent.
  • deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  • layoric 1y ago
    [flagged]
  • keyle 1y ago
    I cannot for the life of me figure out why these companies don't just stick to their core. Because those CEO are unhappy. They want more in their life, they want everything; so that maybe then, they'll be fulfilled. The path to success is made by many failures; and when you get to success, you can't take the success, you can't be 'done', you need more success. It's a long form of chasing the next dopamine rush. He probably hasn't felt more alive than the week he threw everything in the blender. It's a mix of issues that starts with childhood and leads to a life of addiction for more. On the cover of a magazine, it's an inspiring story, but deep down it's a sad human trait. All power to him though, it sure makes for interesting stories.
    • bsimpson 1y ago
      > “I’m 43 and at a crossroads, where I can either be almost done or just getting started,” he tells me. “There's a scenario where I'm basically done. Airbnb is very profitable. We've kind of, mostly, nailed vacation rentals. But we can do more.”
      • dragandj 1y ago
        The irony is that they haven't even nailed vacation rentals. It's probably different in US, but in the rest of the world, wherever I've traveled in the rest of the world I got better deals by using a combination of Google Maps, Booking, Agoda, etc... AirBNB from 10 years ago "nailed" it in a better way than AirBnB of 2025, but that's the customer's perspective. From the business perspective, they probably "nailed it" in a sense of squeezing as much juice out of the unwitting guest...
  • vips7L 1y ago
    Their core business isn’t profitable long term.
  • technofiend 1y ago
    "Duty to the shareholders": if you aren't the CEO growing revenue quarter over quarter, then your mostly stock compensation is worthless and the board is interviewing replacements.
  • coolcase 1y ago
    Growf
  • spinarrets 1y ago
    > I cannot for the life of me figure out why these companies don't just stick to their core. Greed. Founders and employees who cannot understand the value of a sustainable business that does one thing well and keeps people employed. We shouldn't seek to grow indefinitely, we should seek to reach comfortable levels of success and then focus our efforts on rewarding the people who are clients and employees maximally.
  • deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  • bigstrat2003 1y ago
    Yeah, I spent the whole time reading this article wondering "has this man lost his mind?". Airbnb works great for what it is. But nobody wants it to be an "everything" platform, and all that the CEO is accomplishing is wasting money chasing ventures that have no real chance of success. And that's if those ventures don't cause their actual business to suffer because resources are being spent elsewhere.
• theGnuMe 1y ago
  Here is how it should work. When people go on vacation they want an Apple like experience where it all just works. That is what AirBnB needs to sell. The only other person who probably understands this is Richard Branson (and Disney)... call it AirBnB Concierge (or even AirBnB vacations) to blend in the AmEx style angle. It's easy peasy Chesky, make it happen.
  • afavour 1y ago
    That's exactly where Airbnb's business model collapses. They don't own or run the properties. They'll never be able to offer "it all just works" at any meaningful scale.
    • theGnuMe 1y ago
      I think they can. It is pretty easy to start simply and experiment: AirBnB San Francisco. AirBnb Paris. AirBnB London. I'll give you an example. My wife is going to France with friends and we can pay money for a good experience but they are going 5-star and we can only afford 3-4 star which is where an AirBnB is also competitive. This sub-luxe market is wide open. If AirBnB isn't interested this is a YC startup for anyone who is.
      • afavour 1y ago
        You've not really addressed the core problem: they don't own the stuff. They are facilitating a transaction between you and the owner of the listing. It's very difficult to ensure any level of experience, especially without adding a ton of cost.
        • albedoa 1y ago
          > they don't own the stuff. They are facilitating a transaction between you and the owner of the listing. Hey, that sounds like AmEx Concierge.
  • subpixel 1y ago
    People want a hotel like experience where it all just works. Airbnb had novelty, inventory, and savings as its special sauce. Nowadays we all know what a sub-par, overpriced Airbnb is like and it’s worse than a hotel because it’s usually far more inconvenient. So we’re back to a hotel like experienced as the desire: convenience, available, and competitively priced.
• CuriousRose 1y ago
  It amazes me that companies like AirBnB get huge valuations and user bases when the fundamental feature of searching for listings is phenomenally atrocious. - Paginated results that reset and call an API for new results when the map is moved (even to a subset of the initial call such as in a zoom). - Inability to change pagination size. - Inability to hide listings you aren't interested in. - Map only displaying listings on the current page, which change dramatically per page. - Page changes (the thing you do more of than comparing options), take way too long. Maybe it's a real-estate website related issue as the two main property sites in Australia (Domain and RealEstate) as also garbage. I have a feeling it's also designed this way to prevent scraping. Can someone at AirBnB please sort these basic QoL things out.
  • nine_k 1y ago
    Did you notice that the search at Amazon is not that precise? It's not because they could not make it more precise. Equally, did you notice how milk and bread are in the opposite end of the grocery store? It's not because they could not put them next to the entrance. I suspect that a similar factor can be in play here. As of slowness, I suspect they don't have a DC an Australia, so your packets need to travel across Pacific and back. I also suspect that their web site already brings enough customers, and a serious rework to make it more usable won't bring in many more customers, and any more money. Investing in that is likely a poor business decision. I bet their resources mostly go to protection from fraud, legal battles, and other non-engineering concerns.
    • CuriousRose 1y ago
      I understand your point, nobody is claiming that separating the bread and milk is a particularly good experience either and while it probably makes more money in a physical store where you want to buy multiple options at once, this doesn't apply to AirBnB with a single item checkout. The search at Amazon almost always gets me what I want on the first page, which is the desired behaviour almost everywhere to reduce friction to checkout. Why would I want to increase user frustration and bounce rate on a single product checkout? I imagine significantly reducing database calls and blob downloads due to short-sighted pagination behaviour would result in significant cost saving, reduce bounce rate and increase conversions.
• dbg31415 1y ago
  Airbnb started strong, but it has become a minefield for travelers. Scam listings have exploded -- Airbnb admitted in 2023 that it removed nearly 60,000 fake ones, but that's only a fraction of what slips through. Investigations like one by VICE uncovered organized scams exploiting the platform for years, yet Airbnb has been slow to implement meaningful preventative measures. Meanwhile, pricing has grown increasingly deceptive: hosts tack on hefty cleaning and service fees, often doubling the advertised nightly rate. Although Airbnb recently added an option to show total prices up front, it's not the default, and hidden costs remain a major complaint. Even more troubling are the widespread privacy violations. Thousands of guests have reported hidden cameras in their rentals -- some even found in bedrooms and bathrooms. Airbnb didn't ban indoor cameras until March 2024, after more than a decade of complaints and several high-profile criminal cases. Combined with fake photos, misleading descriptions, and little accountability for bad hosts, it's clear the trust that once defined the platform has eroded. Airbnb didn't just lose its shine -- it actively neglected the safety and transparency that made it appealing in the first place. https://www.vice.com/en/article/nationwide-fake-host-scam-on-airbnb/ https://www.vice.com/en/article/nationwide-fake-host-scam-on...
  • 7thaccount 1y ago
    Yep. A few bad experiences and never again. The idea is pretty nice, but it always adds a layer of stress with the unreasonable cleaning demands and all. Hotels are more consistent and I know what I'm going to get as long as I stick with one of the main brands. I don't have to clean the entire house either.
    • digianarchist 1y ago
      These common negative experiences have spawned memes mocking the company. https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BB1nkMlt.img https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BB1n...
      • 7thaccount 1y ago
        Pretty much my exact experience before. I have another fun one. One time the host kicked us out on the second day of a week-long stay to sell the house. She then put us up in a nicer house, but not in the area we wanted to be in. Our schedule was also completely screwed as we had to move our stuff over and the other family wasn't even out of the newer house yet. Everyone was confused and upset. Then there is a cleaning crew that typically doesn't speak English, so it's hard to communicate what is going on. You also don't want to leave your stuff there at the time as although they're just doing their jobs, they're also strangers and you don't know if they'll steal any of your stuff. So we had to end up waiting for awhile and burning up valuable vacation time. Never again.
• jenkins6g 1y ago
  I have an airbnb experience and just hired 2 people. Airbnb decided to pause my experience for no reason. Tried hitting up their support but they didn't provide a reason for the pause and a date when it would be resumed. This is why you never rely on one customer channel
• 9283409232 1y ago
  Airbnb has been trying to push their "experiences" and they are mostly bad. The ones that were recommended to me were either far out of my target city or very nondescript. I hope more cities start to regulate Airbnb out of existence. I was comparing hotels and Airbnbs for a recent trip and found 25 houses that were Airbnbs owned by the same person. Completely absurd.
• pyaamb 1y ago
  As bad as they are I'd still want to have them around to keep hotel prices in check
  • zouhair 1y ago
    No, I don't care about hotels or hotel prices. People need places to live. You can deal with Hotel prices a bit high. There are millions of people in rich countries right now having hard time paying rent or finding any.
    • darkwizard42 1y ago
      This is wholesale resolved by building more housing (which Airbnbs or short term rentals do not make a meaningful dent in anyway).
      • Retric 1y ago
        There’s many places with a lot of Airbnb’s per resident, just look outside of major cities where people still want to visit. Things have mostly settled down, but suddenly taking a lot of housing off the market meant real supply shocks even if there was plenty of land available for development.
    • satvikpendem 1y ago
      Zoning laws are a way bigger restriction on housing than anything else, Airbnb is a symptom and arguably a scapegoat compared to the dampening of the demand of building new housing supply.
      • deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      • forgotoldacc 1y ago
        Maybe in America. Outside the US, that's really not the problem. It's people buying up loads of houses and apartments in town centers and pushing everyone else out. Then landlords realize they can jack up rent because they can make more money in one weekend with some foreign tourists through Airbnb than they would from a local living there. You can build new houses. But if locals are pushed miles away from town, the town dies. A new town is formed. And if that new town gets the slightest bit of popularity on social media, Airbnb swoops in to suck the blood out of it. It's absolutely killing communities with incomes below the US average.
• bsimpson 1y ago
  With lodging, they have the risk of people finding a listing off-platform and paying cash, but because lodging is such a key aspect of a trip, people are often willing to pay the premium to have everything vetted/supported by Airbnb. With personal services, they're risking having that problem at a lot bigger scale: are you willing to pay your barber or masseuse 18% extra to cover Airbnb's commission? I suspect a lot of people would use Airbnb to find a reputable provider, and then make contact off-platform.
  • darkwizard42 1y ago
    People said the same thing about Wag. Ultimately if the platform acts as good lead gen and offers other protections and benefits it will work out!
    • pests 1y ago
      Didn't Homejoy fall victim to this? People would just contract directly with any cleaners cutting them out completely.
      • nothercastle 1y ago
        Yeah we do the same with Airbnb if the place is legit we book direct next time. The site offers no protection for the renter so they can suck it.
        • bsimpson 1y ago
          FWIW, I had a place in Vietnam that was gross. I complained to Airbnb: they cancelled the rest of my stay, and put me in a hotel.
          • nothercastle 1y ago
            Risk is lower for a second stay for both landlords and tenant so it makes sense to bypass abb
• JohnMakin 1y ago
  I am not a chronic traveler but never understood the appeal of airbnb. Most low-mid to midrange chain hotels offer reasonably clean rooms for equivalent (or sometimes cheaper) price than airbnb after fees and I don’t need to play housekeeper either, or worry about weird owners, which seems to me like the whole nice thing about renting a short term place to sleep.
  • dayjah 1y ago
    I have a 17 month old and she needs a dedicated space to nap; this is price prohibitive in hotels (suites, etc). So while I typically hate Airbnb, it’s the only solution for us right now.
    • firesteelrain 1y ago
      Might try Embassy Suites. Front room can be closed off
    • sndean 1y ago
      Same here, plus if you’re traveling with extended family (like siblings’ families) the total price can become insane in a hotel. And feeding all of those people is cheaper if you have a normal sized kitchen. I just wish more Airbnbs had really dark rooms with blackout curtains. Hotels normally have that covered
  • s1artibartfast 1y ago
    I love ABNB, but I dont see it anywhere near the same market as a hotel. I wouldnt use it on a work trip, but travel with my wife and friends. Perks of ABNB- Private jacuzzi, functional kitchen for large group meals. Stay with friends and their kids under the same roof. I can't gut a fish or leave gear on the porch at a hotel. Beyond that, I value beauty and character, and find hotels devoid of both.
  • satvikpendem 1y ago
    It has a kitchen, which comes in very handy when you want to save money and cook.
• iambateman 1y ago
  I love ABNB and I hope they can find a long-term business that works. Their original promise was so interesting and exciting…but reality has kind of caught up. They’re kind of like Uber, in that way. But where Uber has become faceless and quiet, Airbnb wants to be a leader, and I respect that. Certainly there’s lots of cool things that _could_ happen with experiences, and I hope they do.
  • tonyarkles 1y ago
    Yeah, Uber has pretty much got it dialled in. I remember the early days when “taking an Uber” was a weird mysterious thing. Now it is, for me, the most normal thing in the world. I’ve had one mediocre experience: I had a 60 mile one-way trip from an airport and multiple drivers accepted and then cancelled. I went and talk to one of the taxis at the taxi stand and they were asking double what Uber was… so I waited another 15 minutes or so and found a driver. Otherwise it’s been a completely satisfying experience. Airbnb has definitely gone the opposite way. My first Airbnb experience involved getting woken up by the daughter of the family that lived downstairs asking me if I wanted breakfast for 5€. I was getting whole apartments for 30€/night. Now it’s just as expensive as regular hotels, half of them expect you to wash all of the linen before you leave, and it’s totally unpredictable what you’re going to get. I just book with Hilton instead. There’s free bottled water and snacks waiting for me when I get there, it’s a pretty consistent experience, and free good breakfast at most of them.
  • scarface_74 1y ago
    Uber is a lot better than AirBnb. I use an app and the person picks me up and drops me off. If the driver cancels I automatically get another one scheduled, they don’t check my ratings or care if I have never used an Uber before, don’t have to worry about the Uber not picking me up because of the color of my skin. The AirBnb may be illegal, there is no consistency with how you get in and you can’t even find out the address until after you reserve. Hidden fees, weird policies, you never know what you are going to get or have any recourse if they cancel on you
    • callc 1y ago
      I’m curious, what has made Uber feel safe for you in terms of racism? And also did you have a problem with AirBnB based on skin color?
• futurecat 1y ago
  Reading this article felt like reading an ad.
  • bsimpson 1y ago
    Which was extra weird since it's behind a paywall.
  • whynotminot 1y ago
    Really? Because it’s kind of mocking them the whole time
    • ethbr1 1y ago
      The irony is the CEO probably can't tell it's mocking him. What's the first sign of a midlife crisis? That someone thinks a new car will turn them into a not-asshole. > He wanted to bust the company he’d cofounded out of its pigeonhole of short-term home rentals. Amazon, he was fond of pointing out, was first an online bookstore before it became the everything store. > “I was basically going from room to room just pouring out this stream-of-consciousness manifesto, like Jack Kerouac writing On the Road,” he says > Chesky hopes to build the ultimate agent, a super-concierge who starts off handling customer service and eventually knows you well enough to plan your travel and maybe the rest of your life. > “Brian’s been badly underrated as a tech CEO,” Altman says of his friend. “He's not usually mentioned in the same breath as Larry Page or Bill Gates, but I think he is on a path to build as big of a company.” > “Steve Jobs, to me, is like Michelangelo or da Vinci,” he says. Despite never meeting Jobs, “I feel like I know him deeply, professionally, in a way that few people ever did, in a way that you only possibly could by starting a tech company as a creative person and going on a rocket ship,” > “[AirBnB experiences] was like our Newton,” says Chesky, referring to Apple’s handheld device that predated the iPhone. Yeah... somehow I don't think that guy understands subtlety or nuance. What a douche.
  • digianarchist 1y ago
    There's a critical element there. I'm very skeptical they can pull off being a luxury Groupon.
  • 1y ago
• mmmBacon 1y ago
  Basic problem with Airbnb is that you’re dealing with small proprietors and the quality and value can be pretty inconsistent. Airbnb has relied on reviews to enforce this but what I’ve found is that “hosts” usually wait to file a review of me as a guest until I file my review. So there’s a disincentive to leave a mixed review. Additionally there’s a creep factor in the number of cameras on the property. Hotels have lots of cameras but you don’t get the same sense that you’re being policed. I realize some of this is necessary but it can still be off-putting; usually everyone in the rental comments on the cameras. Airbnb could normalize the value by enforcing standards and capping certain unreasonable charges in particular cleaning fees. A uniform cancellation policy would also help. Additionally there are no rewards for booking Airbnb and no perks at all for repeat customers. I’ve moved from Airbnb to Marriot and I get 4pm late check out, upgrades to suites, free breakfast, priority booking etc… and I don’t have to take the garbage out, bundle up sheets, do the dishes, etc…
  • nailer 1y ago
    > I’ve found is that “hosts” usually wait to file a review of me as a guest until I file my review. Oh, I thought they did a double unlock. I.e. waiting for both reviews to be finished before publishing either.
    • milkshakes 1y ago
      that is exactly what they do
      • apwell23 1y ago
        so if i don't review my host, my host's review of me gets stuck in a limbo? i don't think so. I've seen reviews from hosts that i haven't reviewed.
        • milkshakes 1y ago
          there's a two week window in which reviews are accepted, after which the reviews are released. https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/13 https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/13
• dreamcompiler 1y ago
  Airbnb made the same mistake Google did: They screwed up their core service. I used to be a steady ABB customer but now hotels are almost always cheaper, offer better service, and are more predictable. Not to mention that hotel websites are typically easier to navigate and contain a lot less React-sludge that makes every click take forever to respond.
  • cobertos 1y ago
    I had this experience too. Booked on AirBnb with someone who was about the same price as the hotels. Turns out the hosts were just employees of some letting company. They wanted photo ID, a deposit, and sign a second contract in a _separate website_, which I declined. Contacting AirBnb support they said this was fully allowed and I should have read the description harder. I did get a full refund but was told it was only because it was "my first time" and I've never had other issues. I'm glad I turned around and booked with a hotel. It was very personable, good value, and better than what I would've gotten for the same price on AirBnb for that city.
    • vishalontheline 1y ago
      What city was this booking for?
      • stavros 1y ago
        Not the OP, but happened to me in London.
      • cobertos 1y ago
        This was in Manchester, UK
      • atlasunshrugged 1y ago
        Not OP but something similar to me has happened in Berlin, but in my understanding this is more due to local regulation which effectively makes "true" Airbnb's illegal and the places that remain on the platform are basically apartment letting businesses
• digianarchist 1y ago
  I lived next to an AirBnB in Toronto, guests partying until 4am on a Wednesday. Owner of the unit did nothing and as did AirBnB. Luckily it was only a few nights a year - there's no mechanism to eject a guest like this. They create new accounts if they are banned from the platform.
  • spinarrets 1y ago
    The mechanism is calling the cops, and letting the cops know it's an Airbnb. Then contacting Airbnb letting them know you've filed a police report. Airbnb doesn't give a shit about you (and frankly, neither do the cops), but the cops and Airbnb don't want to tussle with one another.
    • digianarchist 1y ago
      TPD don't respond to noise complaints.
      • hansvm 1y ago
        "suspicion" of underage drinking or whatever then
        • digianarchist 1y ago
          I don't think I should have to lie to the police in order to have peace on a workday but interesting strategy nonetheless.
      • sejje 1y ago
        Then why should airbnb?
      • bigstrat2003 1y ago
        It sounds like that is the true issue here (which the unit being an Airbnb is exacerbating to be sure). If it was a normal home, and it happened to have owners who were assholes and didn't care about the neighborhood disturbance, you would be in just as bad of a situation (probably worse tbh). The fact that it is being turned over for lots of short term rentals makes it more likely that you'll get asshole tenants there at some point, but ultimately to fix this the people of Toronto would have to pass noise ordinances and make the police enforce them.
• monster_truck 1y ago
  Have had some insanely bad experiences with AirBNB and swore them off forever. People listing mcmansions they cant sell in a state of disrepair, lies about amenities and internet. Had to relocate several people repeatedly in the middle of the pandemic lockdown and it took months for the refunds to process. Had another host try to pressure me into a cash deal and then claim damages to extract fees when I turned it down. After supplying their text messages and proof that the place was fine I had to wait 18 months for a refund and was locked out of renting a safer place. I can't imagine trusting them for anything else. I now exclusively use craigslist and other sites that allow you to directly deal with property owners and have been really impressed.
  • tdeck 1y ago
    > I now exclusively use craigslist and other sites that allow you to directly deal with property owners You rent vacation rentals on Craigslist? That's the first I have heard of this even being a thing.
    • deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
  • bogdan 1y ago
    I’ve had my share of bad Airbnb hosts too, not as bad as yours, but still enough to ruin a holiday and make me hesitant to use them again. The bit that I should have expected but didn't was how strongly they side with the hosts in case of disputes. In hindsight, of course they do; the hosts are their money makers, while I'm booking them only a few times a year. I stopped using Airbnb and closed my account. Hotels are fine, and never had any major issues.
  • hn_throwaway_99 1y ago
    > I now exclusively use craigslist and other sites that allow you to directly deal with property owners and have been really impressed. So apparently you have found the ~10% or so of craigslist short term rental listings that aren't outright scams?
• speedbird 1y ago
  Half the airbnbs I try to book these days turn out to be resellers of un booked hotel rooms. Try to book, get a message from “host” just checking availability… silence for three days then sorry, not free … it’s a deeply flawed experience and Airbnb need to get a lot better at policing their platform
• tzury 1y ago
  [flagged]
  • gsf_emergency 1y ago
    Can't blame people for having an existential dread about stacking all those W's for exactly no more cultural impact than a perfectly designed recycling bin. I'm looking forward to the book (or movie) at least, I dunno about the rest
• twelve40 1y ago
  maybe they should admit they are not special anymore and expand into other large markets like hotels? I don't even care anymore, I just use Google Maps or Booking, whether it's a "property" on Booking or a hotel, each one has it's pros and cons, I choose whatever feels right at the moment from what seems to be an exhaustive list of both. Properties can be more fun and better for larger groups, hotels are cleaned and don't have annoying "house rules" like washing the dishes etc, or chasing the owner if the lock doesn't work. I don't know how many travelers still stick exclusively to properties anymore.
• bcoates 1y ago
  A nugget in this that seemed significant: Quote “I don’t know if I want to call it a social network, because of the stigma associated with it,” says Ari Balogh, Airbnb’s CTO. So they employ a fuzzier term. “We think of it as a connection platform,” he says. “You’re going to see us build a lot more stuff on top of it, although we’re not an advertising system, thank goodness.” (My own observation is that any for-profit company that can host advertising will, but whatever.) End quote Launching a communications tool in 2025 that isn't one of the two overly trod spaces (the advertising-hyperengagement loop of instagram, etc. or the people-you-already-know of whatsapp) is a genuine moonshot in a way that "what if airbnb but for manicures" isn't, and it's something that an incumbent like Airbnb could do that would be impractical for anyone else.
  • aibrother 1y ago
    "Airbnb for X" startup ideas, now done by Airbnb lol
    • Spooky23 1y ago
      Perhaps they can use AI to create bespoke services?
      • bcoates 1y ago
        Maybe I can rent other people's compute and prompt engineering, a sort of uber-for-openai-for-airbnb-for-x operation
        • aibrother 1y ago
          wow YC S25 right there. i'll build the tools that power your operation, a cursor-for-yc-for-uber-for-openai-for-airbnb-for-x
        • MyPasswordSucks 1y ago
          Utilizing unused processor cycles seems interesting! Those cycles are just sitting there in people's homes, waiting to be harnessed. So maybe you should call it something-At-Home. I dunno, now that I typed it it seems a bit awkward. How about "something@home"...?
• xyst 1y ago
  Explains why ABB recruiters have been filling my inbox with invites to interview. Note they have a fucking ridiculous interview process of at least _6 rounds_. Absolutely bonkers. I was tempted to go for it but fortunately have many other companies in my pipeline with much saner interview processes. Good luck to whoever gets those positions. Seems they pay quite well, but the question is whether ABB push to expand will pay off and become self sustaining.
  • hansvm 1y ago
    It looks like senior roles top out at $220k and staff at $250k, with another $10k or so in indirect financial benefits (401k matching, ESPP, etc). The pay is certainly enough to be well-off, but it's on par with what any random startup offers, so for the sort of person likely to qualify for an ABB position I'm not sure cash would be the motivating factor for choosing them over the other options.
    • msarvar 1y ago
      where are you getting that info? ABB total comp per levels.fyi 449K for senior and 626 for staff. Their compensation is pretty competitive. I don't know any startup that offers that much that is also liquid comp.
      • hansvm 1y ago
        I was going off the posted salary ranges on their website and ignoring stuff everyone has like decent healthcare and vacation. Do they have a bonus program or stock beyond the ESPP to make up the difference?
        • msarvar 1y ago
          yeah, they have bonus program and RSUs that amounts to $200-400k a year. Same pay structure as all big tech companies.
• BrenBarn 1y ago
  In addition to stuff people are saying about AirBnB reviews in other comments, as far as I can tell there is no way to leave a review or otherwise provide public feedback in cases where the host cancels the booking before you get there. This seems to grossly incentivize scamming. I reserved an AirBnB months ahead of time to see the eclipse in Dallas last year, and the host canceled it the day before I was to arrive, with no communication (even when I tried to message them). I got a refund, but that's pretty cold comfort. Without any disincentive to do this, it's pretty easy for hosts to screw people over.
  • financypants 1y ago
    I believe there is a penalty for the host
  • RHSeeger 1y ago
    Its worth noting that hotels do this kind of thing, too; just rarer, for bigger events. Its specifically been known to happen for things like Taylor Swift concerts, etc.
    • megablast 1y ago
      That is not true. You can rate them on booking.com or on google or tripadvisor.
  • csomar 1y ago
    They added a penalty a while ago. So it is very unlikely for hosts to do that now.
    • digianarchist 1y ago
      I went to Dublin in March and had two places cancel before we got the third. I find it hard to believe those places paid any penalty and if they did it’s not enough.
  • askl 1y ago
    Had this happen a few times with booking.com too. With the difference that booking offered a alternative accommodation and if that one was more expensive, the host who cancelled my booking has to pay for the difference. I mostly stopped using Airbnb. The same listings often appear in other sites too and those usually have less bad UX for search and booking.
• Animats 1y ago
  The "Experiences" thing sounds like Groupon. What killed Groupon was that Groupon wanted too big a cut, and the service providers dropped out. This trick only works if you reach oligopoly levels, so providers have to sign up or go broke. AirBnB is there in short-stay housing. Doordash/Uber are there in food delivery. Doordash/Lyft are there in gig rides, but might not survive Waymo. Amazon is there in e-commerce, but it took decades. Can AirBnB find a second niche they can start to take over?
  • presentation 1y ago
    Also there are already other products like that, like Viator and Klook. I wish companies like Airbnb didn't feel the need to conquer everything all the time. It already is useful as it is.
    • sazor 1y ago
      The appeal and selling point of Airbnb experiences was local guides and small groups compared to Viator with more traditional group tours. In my experience it was quite good in Europe at the beginning. But now prices are just too high to justify, like 200+ euros for few hours walking tour.
  • hakfoo 1y ago
    I had always heard what killed Groupon was the bad economics. The "loss leader" concept is Business 101, and Groupon was presented to customers as a gallery of loss leaders they can shop. Actually delivering a good loss leader is hard. Design the offer wrong, and people don't attach properly-- they either don't load up their cart with additional, higher-margin items, or they don't return for future full-price services. I suspect Groupon didn't help-- if they provided consulting, it was probably to steer the merchants to give the store away to make Groupon look compelling regardless of bankrupting the merchant. Over time, a lot of industries pulled away, either because they personally ran the numbers or simply saw their peers trying it and losing their shirt. The offers eventually retreated to what could survive in the cost structure: stuff like classes (near-zero marginal cost per attendee) rather than food or personal services with significant cost of goods or labour.
• jrowen 1y ago
  Just seeing the number of different ways people have typed the name in this thread reminds me that "Airbnb" has got to be the ugliest, most confusing, and least riffable name of any startup to achieve unicorn status. I would guess it has cost them something.
• bsimpson 1y ago
  I'm surprised they're not launching with more coverage. I just spot-checked what was available in NYC - it's a handful of unappealing tours. Some categories, like massage, are totally empty. Are they abandoning NYC as a market since rentals are restricted there, or did they just not put enough effort into recruiting before launch?
• Zoethink 1y ago
  [dead]
• blinded 1y ago
  Dude if you want to find a nice spot in the woods on the river, secluded, in the middle of no where Airbnb, hipcamp, or camping are your only options.
  • luisgvv 1y ago
    Agree, Airbnb blows in crowded areas but it's nice in small towns
• levocardia 1y ago
  Maybe I'm in the minority but I've generally had very good -- or at least, "good as I expected" -- experiences at AirBnbs, even recently. Sometimes I've stayed with rich friends who book nice places, and the experience is, as expected, very nice. Many other times I have stayed at bottom-of-the-barrel places, which were, as expected, bottom of the barrel flophouses. But tolerably so, and true to the advertisement (funny how they all have that exact same fake black leather futon though). People say hotels are as cheap, but they never have the same amenities, and the location in town is often worse. An AirBnb with a kitchen is essentially $20-30 cheaper per day than a hotel without one. Add to that laundry, more privacy, and other perks and it's not really a fair comparison. It does seem like there are more hotel resellers and leasing companies using it as a stopgap between tenants, which I understand, but hate. I get why they want to be an "everything app" (rich people have more money to spend on "experiences"), but other commenters are spot-on regarding the dangers of taking their eye off the ball. Seems like a better use of company attention would be to really boost and reward the genuine hosts that put their heart into it, and at least put in a modest amount of friction to slow down the corporate resellers with barebones apartments in half-remodeled buildings.
  • lacker 1y ago
    Yeah, I've had pretty great experiences with Airbnbs. I'm usually traveling with kids, hotel rooms are small, it's really nice to have a kitchen with kids, and a lot of airbnbs have amenities that the kids like.
    • jajko 1y ago
      Hotels try to milk parents with kids and either force you to take basically another booking, or have few 2-bedroom (or 1 bedroom and living room = parental bedroom) ones, often for almost double the price. Most were designed in another era, and it shows - booked rooms are basically just caves for sleeping. We only use such if there are no other options in given area or if we want food prepared (this quickly becomes another chore with small kids). I've never seen a well rated airbnb place with many reviews being bad. They may not be stellar in some aspect, ie small maintenance may be lacking but otherwise having a full kitchen with wash machine is pretty amazing for any type of trip, and one has a wide variety of locations and prices. Also it allows you to experience the place a bit more, compared to hyper sterile and uniform hotel experiences. Lets not forget airbnbs would never become a thing if they werent cheaper than hotels (or at least provided much better experience at similar price).
• legitster 1y ago
  Airbnb host here. A couple months ago we found a bug where Airbnb allowed two different guests to book the same night. Absolute madness ensued. The worst part is we had their support on the line for hours. And he told that they didn't even have a way to escalate technical issues. His job was to stall on the phone and be yelled at until hosts gave up. Unfortunately it's just the latest example of awful experiences with the company. As a host you are liable for everything. The only way to get them to hold up their end of the bargain is small claims court. They collect their fees for doing nearly nothing for either party. You will not find a way to contact any individual at Airbnb. It's an impressively seamless anti-human design. They have built a wall and kicked down the ladder.
• notpushkin 1y ago
  Goodbye Airbnb. You will be missed.
• SV_BubbleTime 1y ago
  Reminds me of a phrase that I heard when Uber was going hard on self-driving vehicles for some reason. Not even Uber wants to be the Uber of Whatever anymore For an actual thought… I absolutely love that the era of free money is on pause!
• jen729w 1y ago
  > Chesky figured that Airbnb’s experience in attractively displaying homes, vetting hosts, and responding to crises could make it more trustworthy than competitors and therefore the go-to option for virtually anything. Online reviews are totally broken. I recently spent a week at an Airbnb in the Gold Coast, Australia. The property was rated 5* but was tired and worn. The photos must have been 5 years old before a soul set foot in the place. I rated it 3*. Shortly after, I got a phone call from the owner. He had my number because I'd had to call him because one of the two toilets in a five-bedroom 14-guest 'villa' was blocked. As in, overflowing with fecal matter blocked. He essentially tried to bribe me to raise my review. I refused. The house is currently listed as 4.9* with those same photos. A preposterous exaggeration of its quality.
  • makeavish 1y ago
    I too had similar experience. I booked a 4.9 rated property with 30 reviews. But experience was really poor and I rated 1 stars post checkout. The propery owner reachout to me asking for explanation but I wasn’t in any mood to discuss. Hours later they filed fake complaint to Airbnb that I rated poorly as I wanted late checkout and asked money to remove review. Airbnb removed my review post that. I had a flight to catch so I couldn’t checkout late anyway. I shared even flight details with Airbnb but they didn’t reinstate review and added a strike to my account. I expect host did this previously as well to improve their rating.
    • esaym 1y ago
      [flagged]
    • OccamsMirror 1y ago
      Had a similar experience where a Sydney AirBnB listed their property as air-conditioned. Had a misting fan. That doesn't quite cut it as "air conditioning" in 45C weather. Had the same outcome as you. Ended up doing a chargeback on my card and got banned from the platform. Wouldn't go back anyway.
    • bambax 1y ago
      Yes, I had a similar experience. Reviews on Airbnb can't be trusted because most hosts are experts at having bad reviews removed. But if reviews can't be trusted then the whole thing is worthless.
• Quarrelsome 1y ago
  Sorry, but what in gods name is this passage: > Despite never meeting Jobs, “I feel like I know him deeply, professionally, in a way that few people ever did As opposed to all the people that did actually met him, or worked for him? This is such a painfully gushing puff piece and this sentence is peak cringe that just makes the man sound mentally ill.
  • forgotoldacc 1y ago
    I see this sentiment a lot these days. People who were around a person all day, everyday, for several years can say "this was the worst person I've ever known and they were completely incompetent"/"this person was an absolute saint and I was blessed to spend time alongside them", and some person who never met them will be like "your experiences are wrong and I know them better." It's always weird and I have no clue why people get that mindset.
  • benjaminwootton 1y ago
    Reminds me of his “diary of a CEO” interview where he spends half of it reading out his own inspirational emails to the team.
    • Quarrelsome 1y ago
      omg I have to find this, do you know which one it is? I'm sure the office writers are kicking themselves they didn't think of this.
• deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
• ookblah 1y ago
  its about consistency to me. if you have a lot of time to kill on potential issues then sure. stopped using abnb when i traveled once and the AC was broken/leaking b/c the host thought i wouldn't mind it, then asked if i would be fine waiting 1-2 days while a repair guy came to fix it. thankfully the host was apologetic and worked with me and airbnb to get the refund, but i still had to book a hotel elsewhere. with some chain hotel at least i know what to relatively expect in terms of service and amenities and have someone to complain to to make it right.
• ChrisArchitect 1y ago
  Official post: https://news.airbnb.com/airbnb-2025-summer-release/ https://news.airbnb.com/airbnb-2025-summer-release/
• standardUser 1y ago
  I used to be a big defender of AirBnB due to the many amazing experiences I've had with them over the years. But since then I've had several experiences that matched the negative feedback I had been hearing from other people, especially with US-based rentals, and now I'm a skeptic at best. The CEO knows exactly what the problem is because he spells it out in the article... > Chesky explains that historically, people used Airbnb only once or twice a year, so its design had to be exceptionally simple. It's true! I've probably averaged no more than 1-2 AirBnB stays per year for a lot of years. But the average host is probably handling 50+ guests per year. That means the host is the AirBnB customer, not me. I'm about as important to them as their cleaning service. The hosts and the execs are all just trying to make some money, and my dumb ass is in their way asking for extra towels and late checkout. Hotels are essentially just as hostile, except they are good at it. And since the cost savings have essentially disappeared I'm inclined to go with the pros and only look at AirBnB when the location or context give me some reason to choose the complicated option.
  • shlant 1y ago
    > especially with US-based rentals, and now I'm a skeptic at best. I have been using AirBNB for years (top 5% guest at one point) with virtually no issues (that weren't quickly resolved by support) and I imagine my experiences are this way because I am almost never in the US. I would love to see a poll on how people rate AirBnB broken down by where they usually stay.
    • standardUser 1y ago
      I agree, it's the US-based rentals that seem to all have become soulless, bare-minimum hovels as opposed to the lived-in homes of yesteryear.
  • ghaff 1y ago
    I've used AirBnB exactly once because the alternative resort-type places were insanely expensive and it was great. (Just one room and a screened porch which were great. No kitchen but didn't want one.) One other time I was canceled well in advance for no obvious reason but wasn't a big deal. Per another comment, if I'm in a city, I mostly look for a functional/predictable hotel. Sometimes stay in conventional B&Bs as well, which may list on AirBnB as well.
• awaythrow999 1y ago
  Uninstalled my AirBNB because of 2 resolution issues with hosts that were not in my favor despite me providing all documentation and (damning) evidence. The reason I should have uninstalled it much longer is because it's toxic for rent prices. I now pay more for hotels and sleep well. I got rid of Uber for the same reason.
• seydor 1y ago
  They should have launched services for hosts instead. Airbnbers interface with cleaning / repairpeople, not masseuses. They could even expand to construction and interior design as so many people are building and converting airbnbs. They could take advantage of their synergies there. They are bringing more "amateur professionals" along with the hosts by adding all those services. this is a big, unruly crowd of half-assed servicepeople
  • benjaminwootton 1y ago
    That’s a good idea. I’m just setting up an AirBNB and need all of the above.
• jeffhwang 1y ago
  The article repeatedly cites “2 billion users” of Airbnb. That isn’t true, right? From casual Googling, I’ve seen is 5 million hosts and 1.5b stays—which is nowhere near 2b users (alltime, MAU, or otherwise).
• internet_points 1y ago
  Enshittification of Airbnb started long ago. The time seems ripe for more focused alternatives.
• Xenoamorphous 1y ago
  As someone living in a condo in a pretty touristic place: fuck Airbnb; or maybe fuck the local government that allows Airbnb to advertise properties that don't have (because they can't have) a license to operate.
  • jajko 1y ago
    There are places which allow officially licensed airbnb, vrbo etc apartments. They don't need to follow same code as hotels, its a special category. Ie in France this is true, and France is consistently the most visited country by tourists globally. In many top places hotels would not be able to accommodate all visitors coming, meaning only the richest would get them.
    • Xenoamorphous 1y ago
      They’re supposedly regulated where I live, too, but the property has to meet certain criteria like having an independent entrance in the building, which most apartments can’t meet so they operate illegaly, and Airbnb happily allows them to be in their platform. So now I have to put up with the apartment next door being an illegal Airbnb, with all the inconveniences that come with that.
• courseofaction 1y ago
  Recently scammed out of $800 in fake maintenance claims by a first time host. Support was beyond useless.
• wodenokoto 1y ago
  To me this transition seems much more obvious for something like Uber: Manage rides -> manage deliveries -> manage booking with places that are already in network -> expand bookings from restaurants to other services -> expand bookings to hotels -> vacation homes. But honestly going the other way around isn’t that crazy.
  • hooch 1y ago
    Uber also had the good sense to not bake a narrow service category into its brand.
• neya 1y ago
  I never book AirBnB's because they refuse to address the core issues of privacy within the homes - such as owners installing hidden cameras. So many private videos are shared from AirBnB's and yet they do nothing about it - simply because they're just the glorified middlemen here and don't have actual staff who physically vet their locations. This is why hotels rule are preferred. IF I book a room in Hilton, I know full well knowing I will receive a guaranteed comfort level. An AirBnB's host's mood determins if I will enter their property or will be stranded in the middle of the road (been there, done that). And I would much rather talk to someone at a reception than type out an email hoping I get a reply.
  • mvdwoord 1y ago
    I am also deterred by the never ending shady descriptions and filtering. Too many times, selecting something with two bedrooms, and when you look and read closely, it shows a couch in the living room which is the "second bedroom". This and quality issues, and sometimes even blatant cancellations from the owners. My GF loves it though and has a bigger preference of staying somewhere more homely as opposed to a hotel. Truth be told she has found a couple of great places...
    • FirmwareBurner 1y ago
      Also the high cleaning fees and service fees when its obvious the apartments barely see any cleaning.
  • aurareturn 1y ago
    Potential hidden cameras is the #1 reason I prefer hotels over Airbnb. I've seen Airbnb slowly get banned in many places I've visited over the last 5-6 years. Hong Kong. Banned and heavily restricted. Singapore. Same. Saigon. Same. All of China. Same. Taipei. Same. I sold all my Airbnb stocks. I couldn't be wrong and maybe they'll find a way but it seems like the world wants less and less Airbnb and not more.
    • bwfan123 1y ago
      why are they banned ? is it violation of local regulations or is it pressure from the hotel lobby - specifically singapore which has capitalist aspirations.
• margorczynski 1y ago
  What needs consideration are the people that live near the places that are rented out for Airbnb or Booking. It destroys the social fabric by injecting a rotation of strangers into the community, sometimes those strangers are also very problematic by e.g. throwing loud parties. On top of that it drives up the prices pushing out normal people out of the better parts of the city.
  • ProllyInfamous 1y ago
    For about seven years, I lived between two of Chattanooga's top tourist attractions / revenue generators. Although our city has banned new STRs, pre-existing properties are grandfathered (which conveys with deed). >It destroys the social fabric by injecting a rotation of strangers into the community. Absolutely this. Literally half on my former neighborhood was AirBNBs, mostly small-time couples (1 or 2 properties) but also mega-owners (dozens). During my few years on the side of Lookout Mountain (a relatively nice part of the city), we had several small-time police altercations (typically younger folks with drugs/alcohol), but one huge event stands out in particular: a D-list soundcloud rapper concluded a raging party by attempting to intentionally burn the structure down [paid on a stolen credit card]. The only reason his group was caught: they posted TikTok footage of "they new crib," which included them trashing the place — it only didn't become a structure fire because we heard the smoke alarms early! I'm not sure what concessions AirBNB gave the homeowner, but very quickly the house was sold (and is again for sale). My brother lives nearby, and literally none [¡ZERO!] of his neighboring houses house neighbors. You get to the point that you just ignore everybody in the neighborhood (this constant stream of changing faces) and mumble bitterly to yourself when mega-AirBNB-owner purchases his tenth home/hotel. Isn't this why cities initially created zoning?! ---- Fortunately for me, I moved to a less-desirable part of town which houses zero AirBNBs (and lots of wonderful working-class neighbors).
    • margorczynski 1y ago
      Yep, exactly what I meant. This is essentially privatizing profits, socializing costs. And it should be ended using the government. If you want to play hotel owner then build one without exploiting people that want to live normal lives with their families.
• spaceman_2020 1y ago
  I seriously don't understand why anyone would use Airbnbs when serviced apartments exist Only time it makes sense is if you're traveling with a large group of people
• borroka 1y ago
  I am baffled that every time the Airbnb issues come up, there is a plethora of "just book hotels" comments. The use cases are, or can be, wildly different. I am not a particular fan of Airbnb--nobody is a fan of real estate agents, they are intermediaries that provide a service, facilitate discovery, etc.--but I am currently staying in an apartment I booked on Airbnb, and I am spending $2k a month for it. Decent space, a kitchen I can use, space for my clothes, a washing machine, a big fridge. If I had to book a hotel room, I would spend at least $8k a month for it. “Book a hotel room” sounds like when a former university instructor told a student to "just install Linux" when they had some authorization issues on their Windows computer. The use cases are different.
  • int_19h 1y ago
    That... sounds like a regular rental to me?
• deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
• pembrook 1y ago
  Airbnb is a giant example of what happens when you go too far into thinking you can solve real world issues with software UI. Or run a hospitality business without doing any real hospitality. Yes, a marketplace is a dream business from a profitability perspective, but it’s too easy to forget the marketplace is not the actual product that people come to the marketplace for. It doesn’t matter if you have 5000 overpaid developers building the slickest software, the end product is not the Airbnb software, it’s the actual hospitality experience.
  • BLenkomo 1y ago
    I don't think anyone at AirBnB wanted to solve a real world issue. They wanted to disrupt a market, same as uber, and did this by circumventing laws and breaking everything. There is a reason why we have zoning laws: To protect housing for people. AirBnB broke this. Took my city munich / germany years in curt to get the data from AirBnB. While Covid, plenty of reports came up how suddenly good flats in good locations became available again for renting to humans. My mother uses flats for her retirement (she is not employed by a company and therefore doesn't get benefits) and she always tries to keep the rent low. Just that someone tried to AirBnB HER flat for more money than the rent. Uber, just in case you are not aware of, takes the cake from taxi companies. Taxis who are there even if uber is not available. The only problem with taxis i have: They fight accepting credit cards still today. "Oh credit card? Mh were do you want to go?" yeah fu...
    • rightbyte 1y ago
      > Took my city munich / germany years in curt to get the data from AirBnB. This is so strange. Why can't the beurocrats just read the listings as everyone else? Is it too cumbersome to prove an apartment is sublet?
      • BLenkomo 1y ago
        Yes its a lot of effort to scrape some website which might change its UI. Also an UI is not a scraping API. Also yes you also need proof. Just putting it online is not a problem. Even doing temporarily because you are really away for a period is fine.
• cosbgn 1y ago
  Airbnb is, in my opinion, one of the companies with the biggest negative societal impact. Airbnb complementary destroyed some great places and rural cities around the world, because of them: - Food/Restaurant prices go up - Food/Restaurant quality goes down - Real estate price goes up - Dirtiness goes up - Bugs and other animals thrive - Quality of shops goes down, everything is disposable - Quality of building/materials goes down, why install a wooden window if it's for an airbnb? You could argue that it's not because of Airbnb but because of tourism, but I don't think so, Hotels are heavily regulated, they have strict cleaning rules, max occupancy and are built to host a certain amount of people, mass tourism wouldn't be possible without Airbnb.
  • whazor 1y ago
    Airbnb is great for smaller places though. I was looking at some smaller Italian cities and there are mostly traditional b&b's, plus a couple of hotels. So the Airbnb's blend in well, and I think it is too small to really destroy the city itself.
    • BLenkomo 1y ago
      We had already plenty of websites supporting real B&Bs because real B&Bs are registered and can use normal hotel searching websites and portals.
  • isaacremuant 1y ago
    > mass tourism wouldn't be possible without Airbnb. Have you not travelled before Airbnb is a thing in a place? There were always similar alternatives? The blame game with Airbnb is the most ridiculous thing ever. Completely unfounded to try to blame so many things such as the housing crisis. Oh, that is just Airbnb. Just ignore that you still have problems due to taxes, government policies in places where there's virtually no Airbnb offera. Hotels being regulated generally means nothing in places where there's a lot of tourism because you still get extremely poor services and experiences at times and Airbnb and other similar BnB services (this is not new, come on, is everyone <30 years old?) have provided much needed competition improving quality, which has otherwise been going downward steadily (cleaning, breakfast, bathrooms, etc). You seem to dislike supply so youd problably want to ban low cost airlines so that less of the "rubble/mass tourists" would travel, right?
• casenmgreen 1y ago
  I'm a digital nomad. One luggage, no permanent home, been fifteen years. I used to use AirBnB all the time. They gradually become more and more, well, "large company". I used to still look at AirBnB (until very recently, when one of the founders joined DOGE), but I saw that their fee continually rose over time, and became like 10% or 15%, and there's in many places (Paris, Amsterdam, New York, London...) no meaningful listings (which is due to State bans). I was in Paris last couple of months. There was nothing viable on AirBnB, unless you wanted to pay several thousand a month. There was a set of listings which I concluded was a scam, the same very dodgy letting agency, who had lots of apartments, all with no ratings, but very bad reviews on-line elsewhere. I think they were continually deleting and remaking their lets on AirBnB, to get rid of negative reviews. AirBnB itself (and here we see "large company") became unreliable as a service, in that I never knew, when I came to us it, if log-in would still work. I recall the first time log-in failed for no obvious reason, and the and the only option was "email support and we'll contact you in a few days" - and I was looking to move in about two weeks time, and had of course no reason to have confidence in the boilerplate estimate of "few days". After that, I put up my own HTTPS proxy, which I now use whenever I use AirBnB, to avoid AirBnB when I log in suspending my account, which I then have to have support fix, which of course means the account cannot be used until support get back to me, and assuming they actually do unblock the account, and given how variable support is, this is not a given. I also recall one episode about ten years ago where I had to phone support. It was a three hour long screaming nightmare of hell and madness, which was eventually resolved by dint of the new process AirBnB had imposed on users (something about ID and account photos, IIRC) actually not working properly, so in the end it turned out Support (some poor Indian woman working from home) and I were able to circumvent the problem. I've also been reading people write about AirBnB blocking their valid negative reviews on spurious grounds. That undermines all reviews on all properties; you're looking at reviews wondering if there were valid bad reviews you're not seeing because AirBnB has been blocking them. To summarize, fees are now rather high, when it comes to Support my response is Jesus please God anything but Support, I had to backdoor my own HTTPS traffic to use the service, I'm now uncertain about the veracity of reviews, and no viable apartments in quite a lot of locations. So, for me, AirBnB was great, but now it's really not. Then, recently, one of the founders (his role now is only on the board) came out as pro-MAGA and joined DOGE, and that was the end of AirBnB for me. The one and critical thing AirBnB got right was building into their platform the expectation owners would offer discounts for stays over a week, or over a month. I don't see this on other platforms, and it makes pricing on other platforms crazy. If I come and stay for three months, I expect a discount for giving full occupancy over that time. If you don't offer that, you're off the menu.
• SwtCyber 1y ago
  Turning Airbnb into an "everything app" feels... conflicted. The platform's core strength was always about trusting strangers in a very specific context
• alias_neo 1y ago
  I've never really liked AirBnB, and my experience this year has confirmed my feelings. On two separate occasions this year I've had issues with them. First, my wife had booked a lodge in the lakes with lots of outdoor space for us to go with the kids and hopefully see the stars, and give them room to roam outdoors; for months our children had been looking forward to it, and a mere 4 days before, the host contacted us saying they'd have to cancel because the power was out; clearly bullshit, no apology, they'd obviously gotten a better price elsewhere because it just happened the weather was looking better than expected that weekend; and I don't see how it would take 4 days to get the power back on; it wasn't remote. On a separate occasion, 2 friends and I had booked an AirBnB in Wales to attend a wedding together in the area, the host cancelled days later because they'd accidentally double booked; we booked another, they cancelled, no excuse; half a dozen cancellations later, we currently have a booking, and we'll find out in a couple of weeks how that goes. I don't have the time or the patience for this kind of game-playing bullshit from hosts, and I certainly don't like disappointing my children; I would choose a hotel at a higher cost but they're not always able to provide the experience you're aiming for; it's not always just a room to stay in. We've used AirBnB in other parts of the world without issues, but we'd usually book those for a few days into a trip, and start with a hotel, so you're not arriving somewhere and immediately have problems when something goes wrong. One country in particular; my wife and I travelled with two friends who were travelling to arrange their wedding in said (European) country, booked two double rooms, we arrive and we knock at the address we're given, since we've been given no further details; the "host" says to come with him; first tries to put us all up in a box room in some lady's house, with two bunk beds with an adjacent toilet that was flooded and pouring in to the room; when we decline, he takes us to another place where an old man was looking to rent a room, he seemed like a nice man, but my wife was uncomfortable because his living area had a window into the shared shower room, no thanks; the old man was quite upset that we'd declined, he probably needed the money and we felt a little guilty about that; after a couple more examples of this wandering around the town with this guy, it had become apparent, he was taking bookings for rooms that didn't exist and trying to put people up in random peoples homes; I suspect he also wasn't paying them near what he was taking for these bookings. It was a disgrace, and when we became irritated after so much time wondering around with our cases in the heat we suggested we'll book rooms at the Hilton we had passed while wandering and deal with AirBnB after our break, he managed to find us something suitable; both "almost" to the standard we had booked, and both places he had the keys to in his pocket. We reported it to AirBnB, but they of course did nothing.
• hankchinaski 1y ago
  Airbnb is generally fine but I would never probably use it again if I could. They have very high fees and zero support when something goes wrong. I now pretty much prefer hotels, the price is the sane but the service is not comparable. At least for shorter stays
• meekaaku 1y ago
  I have used airbnb before across many countries, but now its more of uncertainties. Cleanliness, having urself to take trash etc etc. High cleaning fees, collecting key from a lockbox etc. Especially when traveling with kids. booking.com also offers apartments too, and has far better pay upon arrival and pay nothing right now features.
• stdbrouw 1y ago
  Unlike others, I have only had good experiences with Airbnb, both as a host and as a guest. The platform has improved a lot in the past couple of years -- many small quality-of-life improvements for non-professional hosts to make things easier to manage, such as automatic pricing, automatic blocking of days to avoid back-to-back bookings (if you need it), instant booking but only for guests that match your criteria, templated instruction messages to guests, etc. etc. Customer support has been decent too, though I have also heard the horror stories. It's too bad they feel the need to turn it into an everything app, I can only imagine how great the platform could be if they just decided to be the very best short rental platform. For one, they could ditch Jony Ive's reworking of the review process in favor of something that actually solves the issue with rating inflation and differences in how people rate.
  • rightbyte 1y ago
    > instant booking but only for guests that match your criteria What criteria? What do the hosts know about the guests?
    • stdbrouw 1y ago
      You can select on minimum guest rating, and anyone with special requests (eg an extra guest, an infant) also cannot instant book. Not age or race if that’s what you were thinking :-)
      • rightbyte 1y ago
        Ok ye well evaluating special request seems fair to do before approving the requests. Do you see the names and home towns etc?
• mfld 1y ago
  I find that the Airbnb fees are too high for what you get, which often boils down to the contact information of the renter. For some regions in Europe, I actually prefer again local vacation rental agencies, which have similar fees but much more service. Of course, their websites are often not great, but describing your requirements via phone or email gives great options.
• throwaway65457 1y ago
  [dead]
• ricardobeat 1y ago
  > but whenever they needed to find a portrait photographer, a personal trainer, or someone to cook their meals Oh, the disconnect. Your average person rarely hires services like this, maybe a handful of times over a lifetime.
  • rightbyte 1y ago
    Good people are hard to find these days.
    • ghaff 1y ago
      While probably an eternal truth, many/most people in the US can't afford to pay a lot of people for personal services.
      • rightbyte 1y ago
        Ye sorry should have added an "/s".
        • MyPasswordSucks 1y ago
          Don't tell us, tell the PA you hired to do your HN comments for today! :)
  • sureIy 1y ago
    You'd be surprised by how many rich people there are. Airbnb doesn't need to sell millions of these services to make millions off them. If an "experience" costs $150, that's just as good as a night in their rooms, if not more profitable.
• incomingpain 1y ago
  Airbnb is brilliant in concept. It's finding value where there used to be essentially waste. BUT then came the growing pains caused by investors and speculators. Both of which clashed with governments who were manipulating their housing markets. This isnt a place you want your business competing; the governments will come take you out. Toronto for example, airbnbs can only be your principal residence. You have to register and license. there's a 4% airbnb tax. This wipes out the investors and speculators. toronto's housing pricing is down 5% across the board. There's now people selling and losing ~$400,000. We're at record highs for number of units unsold. # of Sales are down 20% There has to be a correction, but how that doesnt pop the housing bubbles, i dunno. doesnt help that toronto's unemployment is at 10% which is worse than the financial crisis. Toronto's also losing their film industry shortly. Auto industry is suspended if not moving.
• bionhoward 1y ago
  Gotta say I was super impressed by their stylish launch and I love the design of this and hope it works out!
• bilsbie 1y ago
  I wish cancellation policies were more reasonable or they offered some kind of inexpensive cancellation insurance. It’s hard to always know where you’ll be months in advance. Also do they let your search by final price now or do they still hide a bunch of fees? Why even allow fees? Make the owners set a price that includes what they need for cleaning, etc.
• tharmas 1y ago
  Please only book with owner OCCUPIED AirBnBs otherwise your contributing to local housing problems.
• dkobia 1y ago
  High service and cleaning fees while being a significant source of Airbnb's revenue, helping to drive topline growth are also the biggest source of frustration for many users. Throw in privacy issues and the fact that hotels are stepping up their game and the midlife crisis sounds about right.
• some_random 1y ago
  There are two ways of looking at Airbnb, as a hotel substitute or as a resort substitute. It has a very hard time competing with hotels, as others have stated there are advantages but overall an airbnb is going to be worse and/or more expensive. BUT the resort substitute is where it is a lot more competitive, and this whole experience thing seems like a good way to lean into that element.
  • mattzito 1y ago
    Are we talking about the same Airbnb? When I think of resorts, I think of staff, bars, restaurants, activities, often all inclusive, and often catered to my desired demographic (adults only, family friendly, etc.) When I think of Airbnb, I think of an apartment with a pool in the Caribbean, where I have to hunt around to figure out the best places to eat, or cook myself.
    • int_19h 1y ago
      Some people genuinely prefer it that way. Or they cannot afford a "true" all-inclusive resort experience but still want to go on vacation in a nice location. In some countries at least the latter is a well-established tradition that long predates Airbnb. Like, you'd literally just drive or take a train to some coastal town and then look around for signs that say "vacancy".
• SirMaster 1y ago
  I love Airbnb and have had nothing but excellent experiences. At least where I have stayed at them the quality and amenities seem to be far better than a hotel for the money.
• olelele 1y ago
  This article reads like pure marketing drivel to me; comparing Airbnb founder to Steve Jobs and side selling Altmans new projects… This app based disruption shit that was fed by zero interest rate policies can go somewhere very far away as far as I’m concerned. Like Mars.
• sershe 1y ago
  I think Airbnb is net better than hotels, including places with agents that are basically condo hotels. Much more variety.. hotels are OTOH more predictable and reliable. If I don't need variety (a kitchen? A place very close to some obscure spot? Fancy? Cheap?) i'd pick a hotel. Or if I need weird checkin times and the airbnbs have in person check in. Contrary to other comments I wish they'd actually focus on both the agent and the random host scenarios... But personally my favorite things are weird places that are a bedroom in a house. The mild form is when they have a dog you get to pet/play with. The less mild is staying with people who are weird in a non dangerous way. My only bad experience was also with dogs, a place where when you step out to the bathroom at night two formerly friendly large dogs shadow you, growling cause, a rando walking around at night! Really helps the bowel movement. And the weirdest experience I had was 2 girls roommates who advertised their open floor plan living room as a "separate bedroom" (it was not instant book and I'm very obviously a dude). With a cat that slept at my feet, and a dog that woke me up in the morning (they did offer to lock up both). Then when I was talking to one of them in the kitchen she told me without any context that they were not lesbians. I am in a relationship and it was pretty awkward so I didn't develop the subject further, but I am still wondering.
• 1x00 1y ago
  Why is Wired so pessimistic
• nektro 1y ago
  Airbnb is such a net-negative on society. it'd be great if they came out the other side dissolving.
• shah_akshat 1y ago
  They charge a lot in cleaning & maintenance fees. Sometimes the place doesn't match the description/photos. Had some good & bad experiences
• dangus 1y ago
  This is giving me Groupon vibes. Airbnb went from offering something of a unique product to having no real identity anymore. Just like with Groupon where the idea was so novel for the time but quickly faded away as irrelevant, a diluted shell of its former self. When you really think about it, Airbnb offers you nothing that a normal travel booking site by the giant incumbents like Expedia group offer, and unlike Airbnb, Expedia group sites can compare rentals by owner alongside real hotels, too. So basically when you go to Airbnb you're going to a partial travel site and it's also a travel site without any extra travel functionality like rental cars, hotels, and other vacation packages. I wonder if Airbnb's pivot toward local experiences is a much bigger mistake than using their momentum to make a real attempt at competing more directly with Expedia/Priceline. Why didn't Airbnb start working with hotels and other traditional travel industry players?
• majestik 1y ago
  TLDR: AirBnb is spending “hundreds of millions” to become the new Craigslist.
• arisAlexis 1y ago
  Hotels are the tourist experience. Loud. If Airbnb goes down I will be an unhappy nomad.
• prinny_ 1y ago
  “I was basically going from room to room just pouring out this stream-of-consciousness manifesto, like Jack Kerouac writing On the Road,” he says, referring to the frenetically produced single roll of teletype paper that catalyzed the beat movement. A disappointing and soulless comparison.