34 ms·

Who killed the rave?

• jppope 2y ago
  yea, yeah, everything sucks now... we know.
• _joel 2y ago
  We've got kids and prefer to rave during the day now, back home for a sensible time ;0
• aiv1 2y ago
  Miami Beach is still partying at night, isn't it?
• fullspectrumdev 2y ago
  Gentrification of areas with music venues is a notable factor. It’s like a cycle. Very noticeable in London. Place is cheap and kind of a shithole so it’s possible to open cool bars and late night music venues. People move there because it’s now a cool place. Prices go up. People complain about the noise from the venues. Venues close and are replaced with sterile overpriced crap. Place is now boring and expensive. See: Shoreditch as a fine example.
• fitsumbelay 2y ago
  This article is paywalled for me and I'm thankful because the title alone has the scent of bait, ie. the post might be about a narrow case like large venue/big name dj events rather than dance clubs in general If there is a 'decline' it's likely because there's been a 20 year surge in DJ events -- like some clubs either going 50/50 between live performance events and dj dance nights or out right choosing DJ nights over live performance because it's cheaper (no sound check, no load-in/load-out, fewer drink comps for individuals and plus-ones ....) -- and the era is cycling down. But it hardly means nightclubbing or dance clubs are done for. Even if the activity were in decline, mobile phones would not be the cause. People go out even when their city is being bombed
• jaarse 2y ago
  I don't believe this is specific to Raves, but Bars & Nightclubs in general. Younger people don't seem to be going to these places nearly as much as generations past. I think a lot of this drop off can be attributed to Social Media & Tinder. You don't need to go out to see your friends or find a date. So why bother? It's easier and cheaper to stay home.
  • ioseph 2y ago
    Cheaper being a big one. Here in Australia student allowance/minimum wage has hardly increased while everything else has gotten far more expensive, young people simply can't afford to drink out/attend events. There was also a intensive effort to kill nightclubs with lockout laws
  • aylmao 2y ago
    Also worth noting, and the article briefly alludes to this; college costs are higher, the difference between jobs that pay well and those that don't is wider, and everyone is very aware of all this. My guess is young people today are possibly less laissez-faire than in the past. People are worrying about their future earlier.
• devrob 2y ago
  I think there's a lot of nuance here. I teach DJing (house/techno mostly) and there's never been more interest in electronic music & DJing. Folks who thought I was a bit out there in high school for liking electronic & dance music, have recently all now become more interested in DJing and raving. The DJ today is continuing to grow into the modern rock-star (albeit, in terms of real $ of music money, it's no where close). Moreover, as several commenters have pointed out there has been a big growth in festivals and awareness. Lots of people talk to me about "house music" now, whereas before it was a relatively "underground" thing. Now, I think there's a question about whether the scale of such events have maintained the same cultural ethos as the early rave days, and that, though I'm not old enough to have participated, is likely a categorical no. There's a greater focus on 'documenting' experiences at these events rather than living it. Here's a clip of an rising group called Kienemusik [tik tok link](https://www.tiktok.com/@as.anca/video/7359750430345186593?q=kienemusik%20party&t=1736373152323 https://www.tiktok.com/@as.anca/video/7359750430345186593?q=...), where you can see there's more video taping than dancing. I would venture to say, we are so filled with wonder sometimes that we forget that part of experiencing awe is letting go of ego and just experiencing.
  • bonestamp2 2y ago
    I know what you mean, and I wish I kept at it. I DJ'd a couple raves back then but it was something that any of my friends were into so I naturally fell out of it even though I loved it so much. I later got back into it briefly and made a few house and trance tracks when computer DAWs became popular. There was a sense of freedom and optimism on the dance floor that I've never found anywhere else. I made songs like the songs that I most liked to dance to. Most of it came from Europe back then, but I wish I followed my heart, or at least spent half my time following my heart. I feel bad for the kids in the video. In my day, and maybe yours, it would have been very unusual to see a cellphone in the club or at a rave. My kids schools don't allow screens and they go away for a couple weeks each summer to a camp that doesn't allow screens. They tell me that they really enjoy it after a couple of days, and I think it gives them a chance to feel the way we did as kids... back then there wasn't a movement of people trying to live more in the moment because everybody lived in the moment all the time.
• arschfick 2y ago
  [dead]
• bastardoperator 2y ago
  Greed, aka promoters, killed the rave scene when they started charging absurd prices and pivoting to festivals where they could command 100's of dollars for entry.
• f4kt0r 2y ago
  Shrek killed the raves
  • cindycindy 2y ago
    I would be curious to compare Google search statistics of 'shrek' vs 'raves' over time. Obviously, causation can't be established but maybe correlation can be.
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• katamari-damacy 2y ago
  Covid
• 082349872349872 2y ago
  Will no one blame the banjolele? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT2iP5Si-Ho https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT2iP5Si-Ho
• sneak 2y ago
  Joe Biden did. He as a senator introduced the RAVE Act, which didn’t pass, but got built into a later bill that did, as a rider. This made promoters criminally liable for drug offenses committed by people unrelated to them at their events. Then, it was selectively enforced against club drugs at electronic events and not cocaine at rock shows, and boom, no more raves in the US.
  • anigbrowl 2y ago
    Oversimplistic but basically correct.
• bawolff 2y ago
  I don't know what the big mystery is. Trends come and go, activities wax and wane in popularity. Raves aren't special here.
• Gene5ive 2y ago
  I don't know but In Portland there's a ton of them, the venues are great, and in the summer we go do it in the forest. And now that the RA app has it's shit together, I no longer have to get on Instagram to find out about stuff.
• anigbrowl 2y ago
  It's not really surprising, but the article seems to conflate raves with nightclubs, with numerous remarks about the cost of being out at a club all night and paying for things like expensive bottle service. Raves are not clubs, and historically have never done that well in club environments. People who are really into staying up all night dancing to techno music aren't buying expensive alcoholic drinks, they're buying cheap water to stay hydrated. Many (though by no means all) take drugs, but generally that means one dose of a drug like MDMA at the beginning of the evening. Psychedelic drugs like LSD are also associated with the rave scene but are less compatible with a nightclub environment (bars, security, overgrown disco lights). People are more likely to consume psychedelics at an outdoor party or a warehouse space. In my view what has killed raves was the declining availability of cheap accessible commercial spaces, police/administrative hostility to informal economic activity, and overcommercialization, which has tended to select for the shittiest music/DJs.
  • prettyblocks 2y ago
    Not to mention cell phones everywhere.
    • mitemte 2y ago
      One thing I like about Berlin is that some clubs explicitly forbid photos. Staff place stickers on the front and back cameras when you enter. Anyone spotted taking photos is kicked out.
      • throwbadubadu 2y ago
        Definitely, don't know why not more places are like that. The majority if techno clubs does it. There is a reason more clubs are also dark etc.. not only to hide the maybe existing wasted faces, but also to completely let go and dissolve in the music, this is very necessary.
    • c16 2y ago
      It really depends on the club and the culture. In big clubs and venues, it’s more a performance now and statement than it is a club (think Printworks/Afterlife visuals) so everyone is on their phones. My experience of small intimate clubs in Europe is that people tell each other off for pulling out phones, or there’s just no light in the room - so there’s nothing to photograph. People are there for a good time. If you want a good experience, go for small lesser known artists in small venues. You’ll have fewer people there to record the night.
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• this_weekend 2y ago
  https://archive.is/ul4Ui https://archive.is/ul4Ui
• gnabgib 2y ago
  Related Berlin's beat goes quiet as techno clubs close their doors (3 points, 2 months ago, no comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42149813 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42149813 https://archive.is/BdJlM https://archive.is/BdJlM (Better Watergate photos)
  • aaron695 2y ago
    There was also a big thread - Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future (300 comments) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38151205 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38151205 14 years ago - Berlins new techno beat. why international tech startups should move to berlin - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2729524 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2729524 (Article is gone so not sure if it's a play on techno)
    • barrenko 2y ago
      The latter didn't age well for sure.
    • immibis 2y ago
      btw: Watergate (and Renate in a year (and Rummelsburger Bucht a few years ago)) are closing because some secretive Russian oligarch has decided the way he wants to throw his oligarch money around is to buy up left-wing spaces in Berlin and shut them down. Not just rave clubs or whatever they're properly called - he was also the reason for the tiny little squat Liebig 34 getting stormed by over 2000 armed police officer, and I don't remember whether he also had the same role with another squat, Køpi Wagenplatz, which got shut down in a very similar way (the police brought an actual tank to that one). He either has the right connections, or he knows exactly how to manipulate the legal system. Watergate actually tried to buy its own building at a fair market price, but this guy outbid it. I think the owner of Watergate, felt it was a good time to retire from that anyway, but that isn't the case for the other spaces affected. This page hasn't been updated in over 6 years but: https://padowatch.noblogs.org/ https://padowatch.noblogs.org/
      • 2y ago
• hackernoops 2y ago
  Rapists. Originally it was music lovers loving music. That authentic fun attracted lots of women, which attracted lots of rapists.
• aboardRat4 2y ago
  Who would ever want to stay up until 3 AM? I'm already super sleepy by 23:00.
• yowayb 2y ago
  If I may respond only to the title: LiveNation
• eucryphia 2y ago
  [flagged]
  • llamaimperative 2y ago
    Idk why this is downvoted. I would be surprised if this isn’t a factor, at least in the US.
    • quchen 2y ago
      It’s fear-mongering, broad and unfounded generalization. It’s a edgelord comment that serves no useful discussion. It’s not what HN is for, and downvoting is the way to show this.
      • llamaimperative 2y ago
        Ahhh, I interpreted this as an oblique reference to accidental overdoses from impure/laced drugs which is a huge problem in the US and probably a real deterrent. I realize now from the other responses this was maybe a reference to exploding pagers, which is dependent on (I suppose) the view that raves in Europe are heavily attended by people of middle eastern descent? That’s not really the “known-as-ravers” crowd here in the US so that reference may have just flown way over my head and I injected the top-of-mind US issue which is drug contamination.
        • immibis 2y ago
          On second thought I think it was meant to be a reference to October 7, 2023. I've seen similar stickers at some, back in summer, with messages like "What if terrorists blew up YOUR music festival? #supportisrael" Took a while to work it out though. Why can't people just say what they mean? I find it kind of despicable that someone would spend the effort to highlight a terrorist attack against a rave, but ignore the background of terrorist attacks against important stuff like schools, hospitals and residences.
          • 2y ago
• hmcq6 2y ago
  On the one hand millennials are getting older so it's totally reasonable to expect they wouldn't want to party into the early AM anymore. On the other hand real raves don't happen in legal venues. I've partied in warehouses, upscale restaurants, artist studios, roller skating rinks, movie theaters, hotels, apartments. I threw parties on the lightship Nantucket (LV-112), although those were day parties. But none of these events would be factored into the financial times reporting. Some of the evidence presented by the article is compelling but just don't think they can draw real conclusions about the state of nightlife with such a limited perspective.
  • yieldcrv 2y ago
    The article also mentions that earlier ending events made to accommodate aging millennials have seen an unexpected and huge interest from Gen Z But yeah, the decline of the nightlife and hospitality sector is what this article is about, as the regulated rave experience is very mainstream and has been for a long time now The production value is quite high now and still improving so I don't see why the illicit rave experience would be so interesting when the facilities would be so lacking in comparison. There are lots of electronic dance music events on boats, cruiseliners, retired battleships and more. Music festivals are bigger than ever though, and they are so frequent and numerous that you can go as frequently as people were going to clubs. I have multiple friend groups where that’s all they do and it is far more intense than just being out passed 3am, although many do officially end their main programming at 1am, many don’t.
    • celticninja 2y ago
      We go for the vibe not the facilities
      • yieldcrv 2y ago
        And more people are satisfied with the vibes at the better facilities
        • 2y ago
• bandrami 2y ago
  I was really confused until I realized they're talking about nightclubs, not raves
• miss_behavin 2y ago
  Writing this on a throwaway account because I am embarassed at being so socially stupid. Can one of my fellow engineers please explain to me the "point" of a rave? Is this like a thing to try and find a date? Do people actually enjoy the music and dancing? I'm being really serious here. I don't really know anyone who understands this scene. I'm trying to learn but it's kind of a disaster, I wallflower up hard, get in a hella bad move that I don't understand what anyone's motives are, and then leave. Yeah, I know. It probably speaks poorly of me. I try my best not to inflict that on anyone. Feel like maybe some wires in my brain are disconnected. Is it just supposed to be natural for humans to like music and dancing like that??
• herbst 2y ago
  I just met some hippies coming back from the yearly new years rave in Andalusia. Drugs, thousands of people, illegal venue, ... There are raves like this all the time in Spain, Italy, France & Czech
• biscuits1 2y ago
  Up next: Why no one plays laser tag anymore? Same answer as all the rest, Gen Z, of course!
• ThinkBeat 2y ago
  "Classical Raves" had a renascence during Covid, in at least a few countries. Illegal, (outdoor )location not disclosed until the day of, with a two step process. "Go here at this time, look for a guy with a blue shirt, a good bit of chaos, shitty equipment, and a lot of younger folks who love it. It is amazing all you come across if you spend a lot of time walking your dog. But there was a real unfortunate one in Oslo. Someone had picked a local and found after a good deal of spelunking found that there was a huge cave farther in. They decided this was a prefect place for an illegal rave. Got it all setup and running, people dancing. However running electric diesel generator(s) in a cave with little access to fresh air was not the best idea someone came up with that year.
• wonderwonder 2y ago
  Using the articles definition of a rave, essentially just a nightclub; a lot of them around me have been shutting down due to violence and the governments response to it. 10 years ago, my city used to have a thriving downtown / bar / club scene; driven primarily by university students. In recent years, the homeless situation has spiked with dozens and dozens of aggressive, clearly mentally unstable individuals at various locations in the area. On top of that, the clientele has changed as the university students choose to stay closer to campus has their local offerings have expanded. This new group of patrons has brought violence with shootings and assaults happening now that never happened before. The city government has responded by capping alcohol sales at midnight and requiring any bars that stay open later to provide and pay for onsite security. This extra cost has essentially crippled the club / bar scene with many of them going out of business. Wonder if anything similar is happening in other cities, with nightclubs bearing the brunt of the costs for increasing violence in their area.
• sharadov 2y ago
  I spent a lot of time in the early 00s psytrance scene. Most parties were on ranches or in the middle of nowhere state land. We lugged generators and DJ equipment and the parties were a few hundred people. We camped out - it was a blast. It was a community - you shared your food, drugs etc. I never enjoyed the massive raves, thought they were too commercial. Gen Z now is more into festivals. Back in the day multi-artist festivals were rare.
• tiahura 2y ago
  [flagged]
• bkeating 2y ago
  It’s more alive than ever, I’d say. Just about any weekend in the Milwaukee/Chicago area has at least a couple parties. Proper underground shit. Not sure what it is, exactly, but it’s been feeling like a time portal back to the 90’s and I love it. Drop Bass Network and Chicago Redline will keep you plenty busy.
  • personomas 2y ago
    [dead]
  • LandR 2y ago
    Yeah, I'm in the UK and there are still regular late night dance / EDM nights in my city. I was at one a couple of weekends ago, 11pm - 4am. A good mix of ages too, people clearly in their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s. Everyone having a great time, I would guess at least 70% of the people were on something too, (MDMA, Ecstasy etc).
    • philipwhiuk 2y ago
      Fixed venue clubs are definitely dying in the UK. Maybe being replaced by more subversive raves at temporary locations due to lower overheads. (Neither really my scene).
    • bossyTeacher 2y ago
      MDMA and Ecstasy are the same thing afaik
      • deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      • amanaplanacanal 2y ago
        I wonder if what's being called ecstacy is something else entirely now? I feel so out of the loop.
        • vietyork 2y ago
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• metalman 2y ago
  [flagged]
• anonzzzies 2y ago
  Too expensive? I see illegal dance parties in the countryside more than ever. And people drive far for them and sleep it off in the sun the next day (or so). Big bags of drugs (if you buy in bulk, drugs are those things that come with very large discounts) and wholesale energydrinks etc. So those are cheap, but I can see legal places would have issues maybe? High entry fees, super expensive drinks etc.
  • dagw 2y ago
    Despite the headline, the article makes it clear that it is talking about legal nightclubs, primarily in large cities. The younger generation just isn't into clubbing every weekend in that way, don't want to spend (or even have) that sort of money on going out, and the costs of running a club have skyrocketed. At the same time, according to the article, it seems that larger one off events or festivals are still very popular. So the kids still want to dance. I see illegal dance parties in the countryside more than ever Who's attending these? Is it mainly the old timers or are they attracting a strong following from new generations?
    • anonzzzies 2y ago
      > Who's attending these? Is it mainly the old timers or are they attracting a strong following from new generations? Mostly 20somethings as far as I have seen; invites are word of mouth (aka Whatsapp) and we stumble on them because we hike around a lot and then have a chat. This is during the day when the partygoers are chilling out usually. Oldtimers are mostly dancing in local bars to small cover bands. Also until the early morning usually and no coke/speed, but just beer/spirits.
    • diggan 2y ago
      > Despite the headline, the article makes it clear that it is talking about legal nightclubs, primarily in large cities. I guess since they used "rave", people assume they use the commonly understood definition of the word, not just "dancing at a random dance-club in the city", which I don't think many would consider "raving". > Who's attending these? Is it mainly the old timers or are they attracting a strong following from new generations? Here in Spain there is a wide range of folks attending dance parties both the ones in/around big cities, and the ones out on the country-side. Obviously, the ones out on the country-side tend to have a crowd that is more "hippie" for the lack of better words, but otherwise I see all types of ranges and people from different walks of life. Mostly skew around my own age I think though, around 30 or so.
• circlefavshape 2y ago
  Early dancing seems to be getting a bit of a boost though? Dayfever and Annie Mac's "Before Midnight" events seem to be v popular in Ireland and the UK
  • b800h 2y ago
    For as long as this is a thing, raves won't have widespread appeal. If a rave is somewhere that your parents go, then it's naff. It's also extremely expensive if it's legal. Everyone is brassic.
  • piltdownman 2y ago
    Yeah because public liability insurance has spiked beyond tolerable levels for post-watershed events, and the licensing board and constabulary are in lock-step for the granting of late licenses to bars and nightclubs to operate past 11.30pm They use the most spurious justifications regarding newer commercial tenants and antisocial behaviour to deny the legacy cultural tenets their ability to operate as a late-night business from a licensing perspective.
    • circlefavshape 2y ago
      Nothing at all to do with there being a demographic who loves to dance, but is no longer willing/able to stay up all night? (a demographic that includes myself fwiw)
      • piltdownman 2y ago
        Not at all, otherwise there would have been a dearth of club culture after Acid House and the Electronic Music Acts in the UK. Instead you got the Hacienda and the emergence of Balearic Trance, transforming the UK Northern Soul scene overnight. You go see older commercial acts in the harder styles (Mauro Picotto, Jeff Mills, Richie Hawtin) and you'll see just how old and how hard those crowds go. The younger crowds tend to go more Business Techno or BoilerRoom madness - Amelie Lens, Charlotte de Witte to FredAgain/Overmono. That said there is a noticeable difference between the infantilised and hyper-commercial 'PLUR-fest' nonsense in the US - focusing on kandi and costumes last seen in the happy hardcore scene in Europe 30 years ago. It's in stark contrast to the standard European Electronic music festival circuit and dedicated warehouse venues which definitely skew older. I'd also highlight the average age of a 'raver' in Berlin is about 8 years older than that of a 'US' one. Average age to have a kid in Ireland is about 35. In the US it's 27. That goes a long way towards maintaining a scene!
• EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago
  In my time night clubs were about hooking up, guess no need for that in the age of tinder?
  • b800h 2y ago
    Not if you're going to a rave-style event. That would be creepy and unwanted. At least back in my day (mid-90s).
    • latchkey 2y ago
      Anyone who reads this and knows, will understand... Sandwiches.
    • EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago
      Don't know what "rave" is, in normal night clubs not hitting on anyone all night would be considered creepy. And dances are an essential element helping to ... close the distance. Always were, since middle ages.
      • quchen 2y ago
        The key difference is: do you go there to hook up, or do you go there because you like the place, which as a second order effect is great common ground to meeting someone?
      • b800h 2y ago
        Sure, you don't understand, and that's a sign that the culture doesn't exist in the same way. Here, this isn't an environment to chat someone up in: https://youtu.be/T14r2dBJzvc?si=5rkQIJx_zuAtsr-B https://youtu.be/T14r2dBJzvc?si=5rkQIJx_zuAtsr-B
  • gazunklenut 2y ago
    What? That's kind of creepy. Raves are and always have been about dancing. The creeps walking around looking for hookups are just that, a bunch of weird creeps that annoy people trying to dance. Edit: To clarify, it's creepy becaucse a lot of people are on something and pretty vulnerable, they're there to dance and enjoy the music and now some creep is trying to get in their pants while they're rolling and drunk
• taneq 2y ago
  I dunno about globally but daylight music festivals killed them for me back around 2005. Raves are about staying up all night in a dark room with good friends, good EDM, flashy lights, suggestive clothing and questionable substances. Take away the 'dark room' part and and turf the rest out onto a sports field at 11am and it's ruined.
  • widdershins 2y ago
    In the UK a hybrid is increasingly popular. Start the rave at 2pm, end it at midnight, but it's in a dark room so it might as well be 4am. Usually in some semi-temporary space (e.g. Printworks, now defunct and moved to Drumshed). I agree this loses some of the spirit of the original rave scene, but as an older person now it fits better for me. If the original late-night scene is dying it's because the younger generation doesn't care very much for this kind of night out.
    • taneq 2y ago
      That’s fine if it’s in some dingy basement venue but if it’s broad daylight inside the actual event I’m going home.
    • PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
      It's 5pm on Sunday No one knows we're dancing Outside the sun is blinding No one knows we're dancing https://genius.com/Everything-but-the-girl-no-one-knows-were-dancing-lyrics https://genius.com/Everything-but-the-girl-no-one-knows-were...
• blitzar 2y ago
  [flagged]
• FinnLobsien 2y ago
  Maybe this is a dumb take, but how much of this is just demographics? Countries are getting older as birth rates decline, so you would expect a decline in things that skew younger in the audiences they attract.
  • xyzzy4747 2y ago
    Also the people who go to raves aren’t helping with this, as most of them aren’t family focused. They have to get outsiders to join their subculture.
  • alisonatwork 2y ago
    I don't think it's a dumb take at all. It makes sense to me, especially together with housing unaffordability, which affects the disposable income of young people the worst.
• dailykoder 2y ago
  Because the author uses Berlin as an example. As a millenial that grew up in Berlin, I just think that the hype about, what used to be alternative, mainstream clubs is flattening. Especially techno and electro clubs. They are just not as great as social media wants you think they are. People who love the music will go their for the music and will keep going. Social media folks that go there for the drugs and epic party will lose interest, because it's not as epic as they think it is. Apart from that other alternative clubs are just doing fine (I am going mostly to drum and bass parties). Even though they got less. But I think the club dying there was because of other reasons, not the missing audience
• Jorge1o1 2y ago
  I think it’s health related, as the article mentions. >One executive in the entertainment industry said younger people were less inclined to go out raving until 6am as they were more health conscious and less frivolous with money than previous generations This is the same generation that has 12 step skincare routines, eats only organic food, chooses to vape or zyn rather than smoke because of secondhand smoke, everyone has an Apple watch on their wrist tracking calories, etc. If anything I’m surprised that binge drinking and going out late as survived as long as it has. And as far as the money comment, this generation is not less frivolous there’s just less money to go around haha.
  • mitemte 2y ago
    Having seen this generation at music festivals, I kind of disagree. I feel like the current generation go really hard on drugs. In Australia, nightclub entry can be expensive, ranging from $20-50 per club. 10 years ago, you’d club hop, maybe going to 3-4 clubs from 11pm until 7am. These days, it’s not worth it. Drinks are like $12-16 for a basic mixed drink. A lot of patrons just drink at home, then drink (free) water and take MDMA and/or ketamine at clubs, which is significantly cheaper than a night of buying drinks.
  • yoyohello13 2y ago
    I do find these kinds of articles funny. "Why are the younger generations not destroying their bodies like we did?" Maybe we just don't want to bro.
    • marcosdumay 2y ago
      > Maybe we just don't want to bro. There's nothing wrong with it (quite the opposite), but keep in mind that this is not a normal thing. Most generations didn't act like this.
      • alephnerd 2y ago
        But most generations before us also didn't have the same awareness about the health risks associated with a lot of those acts unlike younger people today. And the generation after us will probably think we were dumb about stuff as well (eg. social media, disinfo, Delta9, etc).
• drivingmenuts 2y ago
  [flagged]
  • hansvm 2y ago
    And Gen-Beta are still shitting their diapers and crying unintelligibly when they don't get their way. An age-period-cohort analysis is appropriate when looking at that sort of data.
• SheinhardtWigCo 2y ago
  > The proportion of club nights running beyond 3am fell in 12 of 15 global cities between 2014 and 2024, according to a Financial Times analysis of events on listings website Resident Advisor. Club nights are not raves. Raves are (usually) not posted on RA. The underground scene is doing just fine.
  • saberience 2y ago
    The definition of "rave" is in question here, what it means depends on what country you're from, and even in given countries the idea of "rave" means different things to different people. For me it means people dancing to electronic music and most likely taking drugs too. It can mean raving in a club or a festival or on the beach in Thailand or in a forest in the UK or in a warehouse in Brooklyn, if there's electronic dance music and drugs, then it's a rave. Here is what Claude says: "A rave is a large dance party or festival typically featuring electronic dance music (EDM), characterized by: Extended duration - often running late into the night or through early morning hours Electronic music - featuring DJs playing various genres like house, techno, trance, and drum & bass Distinctive atmosphere - using elements like elaborate light shows, lasers, fog machines, and visual projections Communal experience - bringing together large groups of people dancing in a shared space"
  • diggan 2y ago
    You're right, but on the other hand, are we really expecting "Financial Times" get even get "raving" right, or knowing about the underground scene? The article seems to be written for people who reads a newspaper with their breakfast, not for people who had yet to gone asleep while that person reads their paper.
    • deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    • kasey_junk 2y ago
      Raving has been around for 50 years, you’d think a paper could describe it correctly if not know the ins and outs of the current scene.
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• maplant 2y ago
  I cannot comment on the article - it’s paywalled - but I can talk about the claim in the headline. I can tell from my personal experience that I stopped going because most club shows start earliest at 10 pm, and even then headliner probably goes on at 1, and that’s just not sustainable for me, especially if I wanted to take a risk and see someone I was 50/50 on. I’m aging, I’m 29, I enjoy the morning a lot more than I used to. It’s just too exhausting. And if the music isn’t perfect, you’re left bored and exhausted. The venues are also way too crowded, drinks are expensive, it’s just not as good of a time as in smaller underground venues. I’d rather go to a show during the day, or early evening and HAVE and they’ve been GREAT but house and techno acts are compelled to start after midnight, and I will probably never go to one of those again.
  • randomopining 2y ago
    Yeah it's such a sacrifice. Many of the acts come on at 1am earliest, but usually 3am. That's getting home before 6 if you're lucky and then the whole next day is wasted.
  • alisonatwork 2y ago
    I'm in my mid 40s and it's the same problem for me. I can push myself through an all-nighter if the music is really great, but most of the time it isn't, and then it's just tedious waiting around for something better to come on when I know I could go home and buy a couple dozen new tracks on Bandcamp that are exactly to my taste. Sure I wouldn't get to listen to them on a banging sound system or stomp my heart out amongst a couple hundred like-minded nutters, but if I'm honest half the time I'm going wild on the dancefloor these days the rest of the crowd is waiting around for a different style of music than the one I'm particularly into so it's not an especially communal event anyway. I'm not sure if I have gotten more picky about music than I used to be - I certainly remember getting into ridiculous arguments over sub-sub-subgenres back in the 90s - but when I was younger perhaps I was simply a bit more tolerant of dancing to music that wasn't exactly what I liked? Or maybe I was so full of energy and excitement about going out in the first place that the music wasn't as make-or-break for me back then? Last year I settled into a routine of going to a small outdoor rave once every few months or so, ones with daytime components so I could join at dawn. The music played at outdoor parties in my area is not exactly my favorite, but at least it's still electronic and because it's less exhausting to dance during my normal waking hours I don't mind so much. I definitely miss being so sucked into the vibe that I can't pull myself away, but I've just accepted that that's not something you can really get everywhere all the time. In certain cities, at certain times, when there's a big enough local crew whose tastes exactly align with yours, you'll have a magical few years, but then the music changes, the people change, and it'll be another dry spell. I like to think, though, that my dry spells are someone else's peak years. Maybe it all balances out in the end?
• deskr 2y ago
  [flagged]
• Nexxxeh 2y ago
  In the two cities either side of me, a large portion of the organised events (on the DnB side at least) seem to be going daytime with a 10pm or 11pm finish on a weekend. Great fun. And there's still nighttime ones (also great fun) and illegal ones (which look to also be great fun).
  • raverbashing 2y ago
    Yeah, honestly after a while nobody has time or patience to stay all night "partying" anymore The demographic that has that energy are also the ones that skip on a cover charge as much as possible and pregame
  • wintermutestwin 2y ago
    I’d love to find DnB with 10-11pm finish time. Any tips on finding them in the SF bay area?
    • bckr 2y ago
      You can find pretty much any dance event in the bay at 19hz.info
• misterbishop 2y ago
  I'm pretty sure the writers at FT just don't know where the cool shit is.
• chuckwfinley 2y ago
  https://archive.is/2025.01.01-212538/https://www.ft.com/content/2138e940-0c81-44b0-87a7-325f278413e1 https://archive.is/2025.01.01-212538/https://www.ft.com/cont... Non paywalled link
• detourdog 2y ago
  Anyone go to cat head's parties in the early 90's. There were cat's head spray painted on the sidewalk leading to abandoned warehouses on the Brooklyn waterfront. The legend was they were worlwide. Some friend of mine knew to follow them.
  • withinboredom 2y ago
    or the pile of solo cups on the corner when you turn, for those of us or went to illegal beach bonfire parties in the outer banks!
    • hirvi74 2y ago
      Outer Banks like of NC? I spent some time down there, and didn't think there were enough people for something like that to happen.
      • withinboredom 2y ago
        It used to get a huge influx of Russians (illegally) working summer jobs there. I could write a book about one of those summers...
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  • motohagiography 2y ago
    call a number on the card, use a phone booth, find the pickup point, 1am-2am was the appointed time, get on a schoolbus with everyone else, go to a warehouse, nobody knows where, dance until sunrise, somehow make it back more alive than you started. it must have worked because we were good people, there's no other explanation.
• drstewart 2y ago
  Maybe the same person who killed the disco
  • fuzzylightbulb 2y ago
    Are you by chance referring to the time that "...a Chicago DJ named Steve Dahl detonated a dumpster filled with disco records between White Sox games at Comiskey Park, leading to a riot"? https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20230922-the-night-angry-rock-fans-destroyed-disco-music https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20230922-the-night-angry...
    • anotheruser13 2y ago
      At the time, I was a punk working in a great record store in the Western suburbs of Chicago (shout out to Johnny B Goode Records & Stuff!). I sent a number of promo disco records we'd received to Disco Demolition Night. I still laugh about how it turned out... Those were the days.
• berlinbrowndev 2y ago
  I love electronic music. Been listening to it for 30 years. Mostly drumbass, dubstep, some house. Groups like subfocus. I used to listen to tiesto, bt, etc. One, I hated the term "raving". I was thought raves were finding an abandoned house, playing music and drugs. I just like the music and don't need the dance clubs or the drugs. But with the said, I think the "club" scene has dropped off. Expensive drinks. Expensive covers. Who wants that. Has the music droppped off? I think it kind of merged into more mainstream music.
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  • Cthulhu_ 2y ago
    Exactly, the organized events are just too expensive; when I think of "someone who goes to raves", they have the means to do so every weekend or at least once a month, but who can afford that kind of thing nowadays when prices have gone way up while income has stagnated?
  • milesward 2y ago
    amen to BT
  • mtalantikite 2y ago
    This exactly. I've been to "raves", they were just giant parties with $3 beers in an abandoned or semi-legal building somewhere in Brooklyn. I was surprised when I started hearing people call giant corporate venues with dancing "raves". I went out to one of those giant clubs in Brooklyn not too long ago to see a friend DJ (Brooklyn Mirage). I was on guestlist, but the cover would have been $50. I bought a round of drinks to say thanks, and for three drinks I paid $75. Plus they made me load a credit card on some stupid wristband to even get the drinks. What 20-something can afford to do that with any regularity? Their rent is already 2-3x what I paid when I moved to Brooklyn nearly 20 years ago. I don't buy the "young kids don't want to go out late anymore". They just never encountered scenes that were consistently relaxed, fun, and cheap.
    • 2y ago
• darkwizard42 2y ago
  Interesting. My experience in NYC even with folks in the 20s is they prefer going out BEFORE it gets super late, with the super late nights only happening for shows (where the DJ/main act doesn't come on till 1:30 AM). I've also anecdotally seen more day parties which might be driven by demand from the former rave crews who are aging out.
  • barnabee 2y ago
    Yeah, so-called "day raves", including one day festivals in parks have grown massively in London, possibly at the expense of late/all night options. Perhaps a perfect storm… 90s/00s ravers are older now and appreciate the loer impact on the rest of their week of starting and finishing earlier and the younger generation is less into the wilder side of partying, so noon – midnight perhaps works out better for everyone a lot of the time.
  • lelandfe 2y ago
    NYC as well. I thought that too and then realized it was just who I was surrounded by. You can find some extremely late night shows throughout the city that get packed with young people. Hop from Paragon to H0L0 to Nowadays and be out from 10pm until 10am, grab some pancakes at a diner, and take the train home. Did that journey recently with a Canadian friend who moved here as his welcome party :) On nothing stronger than booze, too!
    • darkwizard42 2y ago
      For sure, I think this does however line up with even younger folks who aren't going to generic clubs for a late night. They would just start earlier, bars/etc. and then end earlier. The full night bangers are definitely still very viable (and as crowded as you would like them) in NYC
      • gotaran 2y ago
        I live in NYC as well, and I find the post COVID Berlin-esque Bushwick only scene to be terrible. It's filled with the most dull repetitive music that AI can replicate with a god awful sound system and no atmospherics whatsoever, and while I do appreciate the lack of dress code / door policy / bouncer aggressiveness, it feels like a brutal slog to endure without drugs, and a miserable long ass train ride on the L train back to the city. I miss the pre COVID Vegas style nightclubs in the Meatpacking District. Yes, crowded and aggressive bouncers who make up the door policy on the spot, but once you're in there's mesmerizing lighting and visual effects, top notch sound systems, the glitziness of bottle service, and the euphoric albeit predictable drops of EDM.
• steveBK123 2y ago
  Probably a bunch of factors... Tier 1 city RE prices have made live entertainment venues harder to run profitably. GenZ studies have found a lower participation in "risky behavior" which late night clubbing may or not be considered. Mobile internet & smartphones seem to be killing all forms of live in person interaction. And finally electronic music of various forms used to be a niche, and now it's mainstream. In the 90s/00s my consumption of electronic music was mp3 downloads of BBC late night recordings. Now pop is electronic, electronic is pop, it's all on the radio, it's unavoidable.
  • spamizbad 2y ago
    > GenZ studies have found a lower participation in "risky behavior" which late night clubbing may or not be considered. I think they just do different risk-taking behavior. Sports betting seems way more prevalent, and Gamblers Anonymous is reporting way more younger people attending meetings.
    • throaway920 2y ago
      and risky porn is at an all time high
  • jamestimmins 2y ago
    It's shocking how often the answer to "How come X changed?" is either the creation of the internet or the cost of real estate. Surprisingly often, it's both.
    • dnissley 2y ago
      This is the housing theory of everything
    • KeplerBoy 2y ago
      It's interesting how the creation of the internet still hasn't caused real estate prices to plummet. Even two years of covid couldn't do it.
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• kstrauser 2y ago
  One big change is that they got better and much more organized. I go to an annual event with a few hundred of my friends and family. We rent a lodge in a national forest, set up an enormous sound system, and dance for 3 days around some very confused deer. There are food trucks and coffee bars and dozens of portapotties scattered around, plus daytime poolside sets while we swim around and listen to 100dB house. We grayvers still like to have fun, just more comfortably. We have work next week, you know.
  • guynamedloren 2y ago
    I’m confused. You say that you “go to” an annual event, but then you describe it at a massive private festival that you’re self organizing. Which is it?
    • TheRealPomax 2y ago
      Those two things are not mutually exclusive.
    • karlgkk 2y ago
      As someone who does something similar, it’s easily both
    • rizz0 2y ago
      The best festivals are co-creative experiences.
    • kstrauser 2y ago
      There are all sorts of volunteer roles someone needs to do, from directing parking, to helping in the kitchen, to roaming around at 3am to see if anyone needs help, to working the first aid stand, and a hundred other things. I always sign up for at least a couple of shifts doing something, so feel like part of the "we" helping to put it on, but it's still something I go to as a participant to have fun.
    • marcus_holmes 2y ago
      In Australia these are known as "bush doofs" and are essentially community events - they're organised, run and attended by a group of people rather than an organisation. You can't buy tickets to them, you have to know someone who's in the group chat for them. You can just turn up on the day if you know where the event is; they're always incredibly remote, usually on a patch of bush (forest) on someone's enormous farm or a national park, pitch a tent, join in, help out where you can. Security is "if you act like a dickhead you'll be asked politely to leave by a bunch of people". There's no financial contribution, except sometimes a hat is passed around if someone had to pay for equipment hire or similar. You can buy drugs there, but only if you know the person you're buying from; usually better to sort yourself out before you go, there won't be anyone advertising anything for sale at the doof.
• mschuster91 2y ago
  At least here in Germany, NIMBYs and their foot-soldiers aka team 1312 is very much to blame, next to gentrification. Clubs in cities that have existed for decades get yeeted out of their rental contracts as there is no renter protection for commercial rental contracts - once it expires or gets terminated under the provisions of the contract (usually because some hipster shithole is willing to pay even more money), that's it. Others lose their license because people moving from the countryside can't cope with the noise and call the police all the time. Clubs in rural areas almost don't exist anymore because of rural flight eliminating a lot of the customer base and what remains gets taken off the road by DUI enforcement. That leaves illegal outdoor raves, and team 1312 has been aggressively beating down on these even over a decade ago when I was the tech guy for a local rave group. It's not made easier by the fact that there will always be some dumbasses dragging their minor siblings with them and other people not caring whom they sell MDMA and whatnot to, so you'll inevitably get into trouble for that as well.
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• neuroelectron 2y ago
  Such an interesting mystery. Who killed the rave? In Berlin especially, a very interesting subject. I don't think we can ever really know. It's complex and multifaceted.
• snakeyjake 2y ago
  It's probably the same mechanism that relegated the sock hop to a rare anachronism. I don't have a subscription to ft.com. Is it "tastes change" or a sexier and clickbaitier mound of bullshit?
  • lelandfe 2y ago
    https://archive.is/ul4Ui https://archive.is/ul4Ui Quoting the bits that take stabs at explaining it: > [Night-time consultancy co-founder] Leichsenring said venue owners were often closing their doors earlier to save on costs, as revenue from drink sales tended to drop off in the early morning hours. > More restrictive licensing rules after Covid-19 have also become an issue for clubs and promoters in cities across the globe > The increased popularity of daytime events and festivals is another factor > One executive in the entertainment industry said younger people were less inclined to go out raving until 6am as they were more health conscious and less frivolous with money than previous generations
    • snakeyjake 2y ago
      1 makes sense, somewhat. 2 sounds like a bunch of bullshit. WHICH more restrictive licensing rules? WHERE were the rules made, everywhere? There are no new rules where I live. HOW did these mythical rules impact things? WHAT the fuck is this guy talking about? 3 and 4 are: tastes change. People don't like sock hops anymore the same way they don't like raves anymore.
• jrm4 2y ago
  I remember the night when I knew clubbing (perhaps not raves per se) died. Blackbird Ordinary, Miami. July 4th weekend. Normal clubby kind of night. Then in comes a dude in bright ridiculous Uncle Sam gear, sparklers and all, making a spectacle of himself. All the phones come out. Sigh. This is not the point of clubs/bars. You're mostly not supposed to be "seen" and certainly not like that.
  • quchen 2y ago
    Putting stickers onto phones, kicking out violators and fostering a culture around that does miracles to that kind of behavior. Once a majority enjoyes the moment and is very openly pissed off by any kind of filming we go back to being ourselves.
    • mixmastamyk 2y ago
      Do they put them on both sides of the phone, front and back?
      • quchen 2y ago
        Sometimes, yes. Depends on the venue. Taking a sticker off is a zero discussion throwing out reason in some places (filming or not), and an overhead phone filming is hard to hide. The sticker is a clear sign that it's not just words on some code of conduct poster.
    • deleted 2y ago
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• tombert 2y ago
  I haven't been to a club in a long time, but I am quite confident that if there's a hell for me, it's being forced to be in a club+rave for eternity. I've never done any kind of "party drug" [1], and I think that party drugs have to be a requirement for me to enjoy something like that (at least for someone as awkward as me). Repetitive music that's so loud it hurts, not being able to talk to people, close contact to strangers of questionable hygiene; it's hard for me to even imagine how anyone could enjoy it. I suspect that there are a lot of people like me who are finally being honest with themselves and acknowledging that they don't actually enjoy the entire club scene. Obviously if you like it, don't let me take it away from you, but one of the best parts of reaching age 30 for me was that no one expects or wants me to go to a club with them now. [1] The only "recreational drugs" I've ever done are alcohol and caffeine, and I haven't had alcohol in quite awhile.
  • commiepatrol 2y ago
    You must be fun at parties, oh wait
  • Vampiero 2y ago
    Yeah no wonder you don't like raves. You might be the first person who went to one without taking drugs. Same for clubs tbh. That kind of music is made by people on particular drugs and it's meant to be listened to by people on those same drugs. And dancing is just a way to shake off the stimulants.
    • tombert 2y ago
      I'm honestly just a coward; I have no idea what's actually in drugs that people buy on the street, and if I get sick, what exactly am I going to do? Sue them? My dad is an outlier who managed to never have any issues thankfully, but there is a pretty strong history of addiction (mostly alcoholism, but other stuff too) on my dad's side of the family, and as such I've always treated drugs pretty cautiously.
    • jjulius 2y ago
      Howdy! I've been huge into electronic music since I was 12 (currently 38). Literally fell in love with the music for the sake of the music. Started going out at 18, didn't try drugs until my mid-20's. Enjoy drugs, sometimes I'll take them, but most of the time I'm either sober or just a bit stoned. But even the weed isn't a requirement for me. I can be out until 5AM, loving the whole experience, because the music is what I want. In fact, I've been absolutely cranking this[1] crazy shit on repeat for weeks now and have been sober each time! The mixing, the flow, and the leftfield-weirdness of the whole thing hits my soul juuuuuuust right. So, we're out there. Much of the people who regularly support the scene are also often sober, or don't regularly party hard. Check your preconceived notions and blanket generalizations at the door, please, and then try coming out to a show. We'd be happy to show you how things actually are. :) [1]https://soundcloud.com/dkmntl/azu-tiwaline-at-lentekabinet-2024 https://soundcloud.com/dkmntl/azu-tiwaline-at-lentekabinet-2...
• spiralpolitik 2y ago
  It's largely the same issue that every sector is experiencing. Everyone is trying for the same high end of the market crowd to extract as much prestige and profit as possible and pricing out the mass market. Cinemas and concerts are in the same boats. With the cost of essentials through the roof spending $$$ for a night out is now a periodic luxury rather than every Saturday night.
• ta988 2y ago
  I live in a big US city. There are raves almost every week-end (like the real kind amateur stuff not the money grubbing ones). Sure they are not announced on RA and you need to know people but it is still alive and well. They are mostly in old abandonned industrial places and often literally underground.
• mjsir911 2y ago
  NPR did a recent expose about a local renegade spot & the shows it supports in my scene: https://www.kuow.org/stories/under-the-bridge-a-portrait-of-seattle-s-renegade-raves https://www.kuow.org/stories/under-the-bridge-a-portrait-of-... With mixed results, it kind of burned the spot by virtue of being talked about in too wide an audience but I think it's also important to make it known to the mainstream that this kind of stuff is happening. All that's needed to make a rave happen is music & speakers, scale and quality is all configurable. Humans will always find spaces to congregate: whether it's their own houses, local parks, abandoned warehouses, industrial districts, or deep in the woods. I hope we're not losing our drive to be around eachother and dance, it's been such a integral part of my life story (as a fairly young person!) and has let me find my people.
  • 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
    > Humans will always find spaces to congregate ... I hope we're not losing our drive to be around each other and dance, it's been such a integral part of my life story (as a fairly young person!) and has let me find my people. I'm gonna dump a little bit with the blind hope that someone can explain what I'm feeling. Not meaning to disrespect you mjsir, but this thread just has the right context: I'm in my 30s and I have never danced, I don't dance, I think of myself as not having the brain lobe for dancing. I've done choreographed dancing like tap dancing and pole dancing, but I don't dance dance. I don't want to dance, but people keep saying it's essential to the human experience. So I would prefer either dancing or knowing for sure that I don't need it, over my current state of anxious uncertainty. I don't find places to congregate, I don't know if I've found my people at all, and I feel like my life story is incomplete when I come to these threads on the nerd computer-touching website and see people say that raves are so important. I'm a nerd's nerd, one of my fondest memories is staying up all night alone in my room playing with threads and sockets in Java as a teen. I've had 3 romantic partners, 1 asked me out, 2 I met on a dating site. I do not approach people in real life. I barely live in real life. This feeling that I'm missing out on something and unsure if I want it, peaked earlier this year when I dated a girl who was just a hundred times cooler than me. A chill go-with-the-flow hippie literal surfer type. When I think about her I have to wonder what the fuck is wrong with me. She did not stick around, and I've been left with the sense that I'm living my entire life wrong. Can anyone relate?
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• _spduchamp 2y ago
  Just putting this out there for those who may be interested. If you are into making electronic music and want to get started performing, check out the EMOM movement. https://electronicmusicopenmic.com/how-to-start-your-own-emom-night/ https://electronicmusicopenmic.com/how-to-start-your-own-emo... I've been participating in Toronto version (TEMOM) and it's developed into a wonderful community.
• qprofyeh 2y ago
  Music volume these days is too loud for me.
• highwayman47 2y ago
  COVID + Middle Class Poverty
• jedberg 2y ago
  I'm curious where they got their data (or I should say I'm suspicious of their analysis). My cousin is a raver and she sends me Snaps of the events all the time. They're just as crowded as ever and happening just as often as a decade ago. There was obviously a pause during COVID and a slow ramp after, but it's been back to normal for about 1.5 years now.
  • saberience 2y ago
    I totally doubt this is true personally. I started raving myself in university in 2002 and see more raves happening now and have more friends who are ravers than back then... I also see more electronic artists playing gigs all over the world, more people getting into DJ'ing or electronic music production, and there are more EDM artists getting hugely popular in the mainstream, see acts like Fred Again.
• n4r9 2y ago
  "Rave" has become quite a vague umbrella term. Perhaps the closest modern equivalent (in Europe at least) are free parties: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_party#List_of_free_parties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_party#List_of_free_partie... . A group of sound systems put the word out that they're going to get together illictly in a field in some remote location. There's a number that attendees ring to get the location on the (first) night. It carries on all weekend or until the police convince everyone to leave.
• mellosouls 2y ago
  Tangential discussion from a month ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42352825 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42352825 Nightclub stickers over smartphone rule divides the dancefloor (91 comments)
• saberience 2y ago
  I find it really hard to believe this and am questioning the data. I raved back in the early 2000s and I still rave now and the popularity is absolutely booming in a way I've never seen before and in more parts of the world. 15 years ago there was zero electronic music events in Dubai, now there are huge electronic music festivals there and it's clear a ton of people at those events are taking "something" that isn't just booze. Even Saudi has had its first big EDM festivals, albeit I think they were no alcohol allowed. EDM artists are more popular than ever and more and more of my friends are getting into EDM and going to EDM festivals like Tomorrowland, Mysteryland, ADE, etc.
  • barnabee 2y ago
    Can an event that calls itself EDM be a rave? I sure hope not
  • brotchie 2y ago
    I feel like they're conflating "rave" with "clubbing." Friday, Saturday club attendance has been dropping across the world, and many electronic music focused club venues have shut down (at least in Australia and the UK). My word association of "rave" is "festival" though. Festivals feel like they're still booming, or at least not in dramatic decline. From a small personal sampling: Coachella, Portola, Outside Lands, Proper, Lightning in a Bottle, festivals are still going strong. For some (Coachella, Lightning in a Bottle) attendance felt like it dropped 2023 -> 2024, but perhaps 10-20%, and this is likely economically correlated (inflation, etc). Late 2024- festivals (Portola, Proper) were packed.
    • itake 2y ago
      > My word association of "rave" is "festival" though. hehe, my definition of a rave is a temporary venue where at least 2 people have asked if you need help finding Molly. There is a bisect of "festival" goers and "ravers", but many ravers are priced out of festivals, but may attend raves weekly or monthly. Both of these imho, are different than your traditional licensed club that primarily serves alcohol and is 21+ exclusive.
  • 2y ago
• alexalx666 2y ago
  It's going strong in Berlin, no one can kill raves, ppl can organize raves with friends outside :)
• rramon 2y ago
  There are a lot more cool Techno festivals going on though, e.g: https://youtu.be/OCyJNS8frn8 https://youtu.be/OCyJNS8frn8 A clubbing lifestyle where you're out every weekend isn't healthy, but festivals on weekends every other month are doable. Society seems much more health aware these days due to social media and the web in general.
  • MrJagil 2y ago
    wow, what a set. thank you.
• virtualritz 2y ago
  There are many factors not mentioned in the article. In Berlin we simply talk about before and after the pandemic. Prices have gone up like crazy after; this includes rent. Cheap airlines like Ryanair & Easyjet have canceled many flights to Berlin in the last year. I can see this as I rent out my living room on Airbnb part time and 2024 was the lowest no. of bookings since I started, almost a decade ago (2022 was a brief surge as everyone went traveling 'again' but that was it). Hotel prices are also crazy (I got a lot of guests in 2023 that choose a high-end Airbnb over a four star hotel for the first time because the latter was now outside their budget in my area). Then we have the phenomenon of restaurants closing early. It was easy to get dinner at 11pm at a good restaurant in my neighborhood (central Berlin). Most such places would close at midnight/1am. Now the latest is 9pm with most places closing at 10pm. There is a street next to mine that is full of restaurants and bars. It used to be lively until 1:30am, even during the week. Before the pandemic. Now it's dead and feels like a small town now around 10:30pm. Talking to several patrons there, this is what happened: during the pandemic all service staff found other jobs. Places were closed because they had to (lock-downs). At the same time there was turnover of tenants in the neighborhood. People fled the cities because remote work allowed them. The empty flats got new tenants and these people moved in under the assumption their street would keep the same noise levels. Ofc the landlords, desperate to fill their emptying flats during the lock-downs, would not tell them of any caveats in this regard. When the lock-downs ended restaurants initially couldn't open longer than 10pm anyway because they couldn't find enough staff. People had found other work and didn't return to these jobs. When staffing rebounded and they tried to open longer, two things got in the way: 1. Customers had gotten used to eat early (we're talking two years here from end of the lock-downs to the staffing situation in the gastronomy 'kinda' normalizing). 2. The new tenants in the flats in a street with restaurants had lived for 2+ years under the assumption their street was quiet from 10:30pm. They called the police and got injunctions for noise nuisance etc. TL;DR it was legally not possible any more to open longer for these restaurants, all of a sudden. As a social dancer (tango) I noticed the same things mentioned re. the clubs. Prices have gone up, as a result less well-off people simply can't afford going dancing more than once a week. Most of my friends used to go 2--3 times a week. I still do but I work in tech and so does my partner and we don't have kids or any mortgage to pay off. We're in the 1%. To get you an idea: the average venue for social dancing charged 7 EUR during the week, in 2019. It's was 10 EUR when places reopened after the pandemic in late 2021 (i.e. 43% more). And this year some venues have raised prices to 10--13 EUR as of 1st of January. So we're talking a 43%--86% price increase for admission and drinks went along in pricing. It's simply not affordable. As a result, the average age in the Berlin tango scene went from 30 to 50 in just five years. It's mostly old(er) people with very few younger ones that work in well paying jobs (lots of techies) or have other sources of wealth. And because more older people make up the majority of the audience, venues close much earlier. It was easy to go dancing until 1--2am during the week and 4--5am on weekends. Now it's midnight during the week and 2--3am max on weekends. And because of the issue with airlines and hotel/Airbnb prices we also have less social dance tourists. Berlin used to be a top destination for social dancers from abroad to come visit but its noticeable less in 2023/2024 than before the pandemic.
• some_random 2y ago
  Millenials are getting too old while Gen Z is too risk adverse and was generally shocked out of the habit of going out by the pandemic.
  • brink 2y ago
    Another factor is why waste the effort going to get a dopamine rush by going out when you have dopamine in your pocket? We're too overstimulated and numb to bother leaving the house. Why bother playing a game when you can watch someone play it for you on Youtube with less effort?
• tonymet 2y ago
  It's very difficult to operate a moderate-sized event secretly. Raves used to be promoted locally (at record & clothing shops) , and then shared among friends. The venue was secret right up to the event, because you first had to drive to a number of secret waypoints that were revealed by phone. The final location was often hidden in the wilderness or at a condemned (or squatted) building. Accidental and deliberate surveillance is so common and cheap that this is no longer viable.
• jwblackwell 2y ago
  Above & Beyond's label has a huge following. I have been to many events around the world. They do a big gathering each year e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEqySVgNkIA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEqySVgNkIA
• timbre1234 2y ago
  What's missing is GenZ isn't into it. The kids are the ones that go out all the time and they drive a lot of the revenue that big clubs need to stay alive. I'm not really sure what GenZ is into instead -- would've been cool if this article had tried asking them.
  • UncleOxidant 2y ago
    I think we could say that covid killed a lot of these things. GenZ just happened to be coming of age during the pandemic years and thus prefers to stay home as they see that as normative.
  • test6554 2y ago
    We may very well see a future judgy christian nationalist generation of youngsters who frown at grandma and grandpa millennial's tattoos and our nasty sexually explicit oldies music.
  • jaco6 2y ago
    [dead]
  • Nasreddin_Hodja 2y ago
    > I'm not really sure what GenZ is into instead Things like this maybe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuddle_party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuddle_party As for modern electronic music, it became very dumb compared to oldschool techno of 90s, who even listens to that crap nowadays? Why someone would pay for loud noise?
• tayo42 2y ago
  Why isnt the cause just trends, music and fads changing? EDM and raves have had a big moment early 2010s then every thing kind of evolved, there must be new music for the new generation. Like why aren't we listening to guitar solos, or 80s metal bands or grunge anymore? No one killed it
• Pigalowda 2y ago
  The kids don’t party and fuck like we used to? I guess we’re old.
  • 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
    Back in my day we had ASL on IRC and that was good enough for us
    • kristopolous 2y ago
      16/f/ca was the best 10 years of my life.
• denysvitali 2y ago
  There's a similar documentary (from 7 years ago, by Annie Mac - BBC) about the UK clubs closures https://youtu.be/n9zjNKQ-snI https://youtu.be/n9zjNKQ-snI Worth a watch!
• fizx 2y ago
  Burning Man's been dying slowly since about 2018, so pre-Covid. When I say dying, I don't mean "getting mainstream & EDMified" like all the old Burners have complained about since forever. I mean, the mainstream has stopped taking interest, and increasing portions of the tickets are getting taken by internationals because its passé in the USA, but still on some people's travel bucket lists. This year was the first year in a while with extra tickets available, but the writing has been on the wall for a while. I'm sure raving will come back in 20 years like most fashion.
  • Spivak 2y ago
    I wouldn't use Burning Man as a metric for the scene overall because among ravers Burning Man is considered to be one of the worst festivals.
    • quchen 2y ago
      How so? I saw a few vids about EDC and quite frankly it looked worse than tomorrowland (like, reminds me of mobile games patterns), quite the feat. Burning Man has a reputation, and it's definitely not a sharing economy to get there. I wouldn't fly half the globe to get there, I think it would be quite interesting though.
      • lamp_book 2y ago
        It’s more of an arts and community festival than a music event. There’s a smattering of respected DJs/producers each year and some good sets, but otherwise there’s a bunch of art cars roaming around thumping generic party music. Absolutely nothing against Donna summers, but I’m not shitting you when I say I heard her around a half a dozen times the first big party night, for instance. There is no curation there like a music festival. That said, absolutely worth going to at least once, for everything else.
        • quchen 2y ago
          There are a couple of smaller burns here I have connections to, I like the participatory idea, as opposed to pure consumption like a holiday park. If burning man is (or was) like that I would find that pretty appealing. Not sure about August in the desert some 10000km away though : - D
• JansjoFromIkea 2y ago
  Can't see the article but I imagine a big part of it is a combo of clubs continually being booted to new locations in cities to the point you kind of have to get tickets in advance for one place or run the risk of going there, being turned away and having absolutely nothing else to do in the area. To battle this there's loads of venues that seem to almost exclusively do shows that end near midnight and I've never been to one that wasn't completely devoid of atmosphere (hard to enjoy the music when the people next to you are talking at length about some work deadline they have).
• throwaway019254 2y ago
  I realized that it's impossible to find clubs that serve alcohol till morning. The laws are more strict nowadays. Most of the raves I attend now are on indigenous lands, it's definitely not mainstream, and I can party till morning.
  • deleted 2y ago
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• heraldgeezer 2y ago
  I mostly watch 90s and 00s movies and TV shows because you know why. Same here. All new things are shit. Could House be aired today?
• marxisttemp 2y ago
  Plenty of great raves still around. I don’t think the Financial Times is a great resource on free of charge illegal underground parties?
• hnpolicestate 2y ago
  The smartphone imo.
• endofreach 2y ago
  Thanks tiktok.
• seydor 2y ago
  People travel instead
• readingnews 2y ago
  These guys killed it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YS_7U0mDgA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YS_7U0mDgA
• narag 2y ago
  For a long time I wondered why nightlife had cooled down so much. Then I realized that natality had sharply declined. Not evenly distributed, but around me it's pretty much the main cause. Every scene is just much less crowded.
• jimt1234 2y ago
  rave != club IMHO, "raves" are, or were, underground, unsanctioned, and generally illegal, whereas "clubs" are typically licensed and legal - in other words, expensive and lame. I went to raves back in the early-90s, and I can tell you, it was nothing like dance clubs of the last 10 years.
• zuminator 2y ago
  One more guess: Part of the reason why people would go late-night dancing was for hookups. Nowadays, people meet partners via dating apps, so the prospect of a random encounter in a dark club is less appealing.
• permo-w 2y ago
  this sounds like a headline from Plague Inc
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• t55 2y ago
  I really like day-time raves
• nonrandomstring 2y ago
  UK had criminal justice bill [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Justice_and_Public_Order_Act_1994 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Justice_and_Public_Or...
• _yb2s 2y ago
  The author doesn't even seem to know what a rave is, most likely they aren't in decline at all. They're talking about formal, permanent dance clubs shutting down for economic reasons. Raves are mostly an underground - often illegal or questionably legal - impromptu one off event, organized through word of mouth and social media on an invite only basis. There is almost no way to get statistics on them because they are intentionally stealth. In my younger years, I was active in the wearhouse and desert rave scene, and it was a lot of fun. Typically it would just be an empty wearhouse in a run down industrial district, or simply an empty lot far out in the desert far from any homes. Different rave scenes had different groups of people- some were quite out of control and doing very dangerous things, others were much more organized and responsible. Although I haven't been in many years, I am certain the more organized and responsible ones with a strong culture of vetting who is invited, and having responsible sober regulars that are able to help those more inexperienced are still going strong, and I still get invites to them. There is nothing like dancing all night until sunrise under the stars on a warm summer desert night... to excellent electronic music made/performed live by the artists. Usually people are very friendly, warm and welcoming- aided by certain phenylethylamine compounds no doubt.
  • deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  • pier25 2y ago
    This exactly. I was a dj and organized raves back in my 20s.
  • jimnotgym 2y ago
    I'm guessing your mention of desert raves places you in a different country to the author? In the UK, where I believe the word originates when applied to late night electronic music events in the mid 80s, the term meant an often unauthorised event in a field or industrial site. Perhaps it was the noise menace, or perhaps people dancing in a field fuelled by MDMA caused a big deal in alcohol duty revenue for the government, but raves became highly regulated with the 1994 Criminal Justice and Public Order Act. Illegal raves were clamped down on by police with a fierce intensity. This essentially pushed the music back into clubs, where people could be taxed more easily. This ended the original race scene. By the late 90s the term was anachronistic in the UK. In the 2010s certain dance subcultures, drum and bass springs to mind, started becoming known as raves again, but these were anything from club nights to outdoor festivals. Quite unlike the earlier usage It appears that your usage mirrors the UK rave scene from the late 80s to early 90s that died out, and the author has a broader usage that is in use today in the UK.
• polyterative 2y ago
  my dumb italian government literally made them illegal. that's what
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• Funes- 2y ago
  Social media killed (real) social life.
• Spooky23 2y ago
  Anything that relies on booze is dying. It’s too expensive.
• hsuduebc2 2y ago
  https://archive.is/ul4Ui https://archive.is/ul4Ui
• throwaway_95283 2y ago
  Come to the southern cone of south america (brazil, paraguay, argentina), late night dance is alive and well. Colombia too to a lesser degree.
  • jmdelatorre 2y ago
    in some places in Chile its gone down though https://www.emol.com/noticias/Economia/2025/01/03/1153139/locales-nocturnos-chile-declive.html https://www.emol.com/noticias/Economia/2025/01/03/1153139/lo...
    • throwaway_95283 2y ago
      Chile is awful (Santiago specifically). Sorry if you are from there. High prices, high crime, full of feminists, everything closes early. Might as well move back to the west.
      • totallynothoney 2y ago
        [flagged]
• peterarmstrong 2y ago
  phalates
• maCDzP 2y ago
  Any tips if someone want to join in the Nordics?
• sydbarrett74 2y ago
  GenZers are indulging in drugs at much lower rates than previous generations. That includes alcohol.
• codexb 2y ago
  It's not just raves, it's pretty much all "nightclub" type bars. The common nightclub has been replaced by expensive, high-end, bottle-service only type clubs.
• FrustratedMonky 2y ago
  Maybe cell phone cameras killed the rave. Nobody wants pics of them dancing like a spastic monkey
  • quchen 2y ago
    I want to dance like that though, so I don't go to places without a no picture policy (important: with stickers) anymore.