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Perplexity got ads
- mikae1 2y agoSurprise! Companies eventually need to make some money.
- amelius 2y agoBut why do they need to choose the shittiest monetization model?
- jsheard 2y agoIf you have a better idea for making AI chatbots profitable then I'm sure all the AI chatbot companies which are losing staggering amounts of money would love to hear it. The first step is to find any business model that works, shittily or unshittily.
- amelius 2y agoBurning money is part of the plan. Winner takes all, etc. Need I explain more?
- relativ575 2y agoSo anyway, what is your idea of a less shitty business model that can sustain their business? Paid tier? they already have it.
- tomjen3 2y agoThat's a great strategy in normal times. But in this case, you are in a technology race that would be considered essential for the national security of both the US and China. Which means that whomever each state picks as their champion will have approximately infinite amount of money to support them. Good luck winning that!
- oarsinsync 2y agoDeepseek appears to be running profitably, by being more efficient in how they train their models, being more efficient in how they run their models, and charging a modest profit margin on each API call. (Source: linked article / interview with the CEO of Deepseek from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42557586 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42557586)
- sagarm 2y agoBut how do their business customers make money off providing this tech to end users?
- relativ575 2y agoIt's a Chinese company in a wild hot technology field that China want to compete in. I bet that they are very well supported by the state. Similar to Llama with Meta's money.
- bigtex 2y agoShouldn’t they just be asking their AI chat bot what’s the best way to make money and then do that?
- teddyh 2y agoMaybe they did.
- Aeolun 2y agoCharge me for usage like they’re already doing?
- qudat 2y agoIt’s a proven model and it’ll make them oodles of money.
- jsheard 2y agoTrue! More money means more taxes though, they should consider using Intuit™ TurboTax™ to make them easy! (disclaimer: responses may include paid product placement)
- Modified3019 2y agoThis inspired some consideration of what it would be like if there ad companies that somehow found it viable to pay consumers to inject advertisements in all their interactions with businesses, such that support would start having to implement ad blocking. What a fever dream.
- chgs 2y agoAdd in dreams? Sounds a reasonable next step.
- behnamoh 2y agoperplexity already has a subscription plan...
- jsheard 2y agoSo does OpenAI, but they're still burning billions of dollars every year. Ads are another way to stem the bleeding.
- tomrod 2y agoAds are myopic and signal lack of ability by a company to be viable.
- lmm 2y agoGoogle is the world's fourth most valuable company.
- asdff 2y agoAnd phillip morris was one of the best performing stocks for nearly a century. past performance in the market is not always indicative of strong collective benefits.
- relativ575 2y agoGoogle's revenue for 2023 was $307.394B, a 8.68% increase from 2022. 2022 was $282.836B, a 9.78% increase from 2021. 2021 was $257.637B, a 41.15% increase from 2020. Doesn't sound like just past glory. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/GOOG/alphabet/revenue https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/GOOG/alphabet/reve...
- lmm 2y agoI'm not saying they're a force for good. But they're more than viable as a company.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- hiddencost 2y agoWhich is why it's nice when there's governments to provide services or regulate industries...
- cudgy 2y agoIf consumers aren’t willing to pay for something, doesn’t that say something about the true value of the product to the consumer?
- lupire 2y agoYes, we know that individual consumers in general are not economically rational. The modern economy is built on this thesis.
- moralestapia 2y agoWhat!? Revenue!? No! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzAdXyPYKQo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzAdXyPYKQo
- bandrami 2y agoIt's crazy how much of the 2010s was both companies and consumers ignoring this, like Wile E. Coyote not noticing he's already off the edge of the cliff.
- talldayo 2y agoI like how AI generated ads tacitly confirm that advertisement was never about exposure and introducing people to new things. No, it's about automating deception on a grand scale and awarding the people that can most effectively control an audience. Why is TurboTax the best way to file my taxes, anyways?
- plagiarist 2y agoBecause of regulatory capture. In essence, TurboTax has been able to purchase legislators who then ensure that tax law is difficult for regular people. This creates a larger market for TurboTax. That's similar (albeit less awful, I admit) to how for-profit prisons are able to purchase legislators to ensure that they are able to fill their cells. There are some countries that have managed to avoid having tax prep software companies purchasing their legislators. In those countries, the best way to file taxes is basically observing the overview and clicking "yes that's accurate" on a government-provided website.
- mminer237 2y agoEven with that, TurboTax probably isn't the best. H&R Block or TaxSlayer or FreeTaxUSA can help you with your taxes just the same for less or free.
- 0xcde4c3db 2y agoThere's also "Free File Fillable Forms", which is part of the weird compromise that tax return prep companies like Intuit and H&R Block negotiated to prevent individuals being allowed to file directly with the IRS. It's actually operated by one of the companies in the "alliance", but it's set up like a digital version of the IRS forms (up to and including the fact that you need to make your own copies of everything because they delete all accounts/data every year).
- hundchenkatze 2y agoHere’s a free alternative. (free for federal; $15 for state returns). https://www.freetaxusa.com/ https://www.freetaxusa.com/ Yes, the name sounds like a scam, but I’ve used it without issue for the past 5 years.
- amrrs 2y agofwiw - Aravind Srinivas (Perplexity cofounder) spoke about Ads - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWPmu_rKxJo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWPmu_rKxJo
- sabareesh 2y agoHe wanted to expose ads to AI, which felt weird for some reason.
- hcurtiss 2y agoMy wife and I both pay for Kagi Ultimate, which they've quietly developed as a Perplexity killer. Aggregates all the major LLMs and couples them with Kagi's clean search results with citations. All with no ads, no bullshit. It's the whole corporate mission. It's awesome. I hope enough people are willing to pay to make Kagi successful.
- bbertelsen 2y agoThe Assistant product is incredible. It's been my daily driver (+Cursor), since September. I don't even bother with normal search results unless I really can't find something (like a specific GitHub issue that hasn't been cached yet)
- CubsFan1060 2y agoIs the assistant similar to perplexity? Or something different?
- hcurtiss 2y agoIt's basically Perplexity, but in some ways better. I'll edit my comment to make that more clear.
- tensor 2y agoIt's more similar to chatgpt search. E.g. it does real time search and gets the AI to summarize/rank/interpret the results for you.
- hcurtiss 2y agoNot true. It's a full fledged LLM aggregator. Here's Anthropic's answer to the most important question of all time, served by Kagi Assistant (with the correct answer). https://share.cleanshot.com/xB7W8mwD https://share.cleanshot.com/xB7W8mwD
- int_19h 2y agoDo these apply to their paid "pro" option?
- plagiarist 2y agoA large reason LLMs are useful for search and answering questions is because they omit the ads and (LLM-generated!) garbage listicles to give the searcher a straight answer. Ads are, by definition, worse for the searcher. If they were quality and strongly related to the query they would be organic results. IMO it was always inevitable that companies will put the ads back in, removing this benefit. Perhaps the paid AI offerings will be able to continue focusing on quality results for the searchers.
- MuffinFlavored 2y ago> A large reason LLMs are useful ... is because they omit ... (LLM-generated!) garbage listicles What a sentence!
- plagiarist 2y agoRight? It really is a racket that the same tool which generates massive amounts of noise can also filter down to some of the signal. Like if I sold tires and also threw fistfuls of nails in parking lots.
- AlwaysRock 2y agoI noticed this when I was served an ad for the newish Venom movie. Add in TurboTax, and it seems like they really have no discretion about who they are willing to advertise for. That is worrisome.
- duckkg5 2y agoNo surprise here, but what a bummer that this is "The Way™" Just let me pay you $3-5/ month to never see an ad again. It's worth it to me since the service is actually decent.
- tensor 2y agoKagi assistant costs more than your ask, but is a good product and comes with their also good ad-free traditional search.
- gaze 2y agoYeah but what if they took the 3-5 dollars and also showed you ads?
- Waterluvian 2y agoThat’ll never work. Looks at cable TV Looks at streaming services
- consp 2y agoI have neither and my life is better for it. I might pay for a decent streaming service but we've past the point where that is the case. I will never pay again for classic TV, it's a scam since you pay for more ads than actual content.
- PaulDavisThe1st 2y agoWhat could make a streaming service "decent" ?
- yedava 2y agoAI products will be speed running the last few decades of tech - make a compelling product, then add ads based on the prompt, then store prompts from each user and build psychological profiles, and finally manipulate AI output to maximize user susceptibility to part with their hard earned money. Bonus points if they can get the user addicted to their product.
- sciencesama 2y agoAnd then there will be an ai ad blocker
- rurp 2y agoHow do you block ads if they are embedded in the training weights?
- tobyjsullivan 2y agoI interpreted the suggestion as the reader's own AI would rewrite the content to remove advertising messaging/bias, for example.
- add-sub-mul-div 2y agoIf you ask an AI for the best pizza place in town how would you know if the answer is paid for or not? There's no defense against a future in which an AI response has undisclosed purchased bias. Regulation is impotent.
- asdff 2y agoTo be fair that's been the case since there were food reviews.
- nunez 2y agoBut not at this scale. Imagine if every response in this thread was AI generated. Or a Reddit/TripAdvisor/set of Google Maps reviews. Just enough criticism to make you think there's fairness. This is possible today, but gen AI has made/is making this pedestrian to do.
- npollock 2y agohow long before the advertisers pressure model providers to "fine-tune" mentions of their competitors?
- ToucanLoucan 2y agoNegative three months?
- behnamoh 2y agoMakes me wonder if the lowering of prices in this industry is temporary. Currently, the API costs are at an all-time low, but how much of it is subsidized by investor money? Are we going to see increasing prices as the hype goes away and post-nut clarity kicks in the industry?
- fullshark 2y agoDefinitely, these companies are trying to buy market share, establish lock in, and then figure out the long term cash flows after competition folds.
- rvz 2y ago> Makes me wonder if the lowering of prices in this industry is temporary. Yes. For example, Microsoft is keeping prices of Copilot temporarily free for as long as possible to destroy competitors who can't compete with the best tool available for free. This is a known attractive tactic to the point where it is the new definition of 'Extinguish' in Microsoft's EEE strategy: Embrace (Open Source, Github), Extend (OpenAI, GitHub), Extinguish (For free). > Are we going to see increasing prices as the hype goes away and post-nut clarity kicks in the industry? Until there are enough AI startups shutting down and a few of them have gone public on the stock market. The prices will start to rise by $0.50 - $1.50 per million tokens very slowly.
- behnamoh 2y ago> For example, Microsoft is keeping prices of Copilot temporarily free for as long as possible to destroy competitors who can't compete with the best tool available for free. Yes, their recent "copilot is free" tactic is obviously to crush Cursor and the like. > Until there are enough AI startups shutting down and a few of them have gone public on the stock market. The prices will start to rise by $0.50 - $1.50 per million tokens very slowly. At the same time, advances in GPU and inference optimizations will likely push back against price increase. That said, you're right about lock in—if that happens, then even technological progress in GPUs and inference wouldn't stop companies from raising prices.
- aucisson_masque 2y agowell it's a company and no one is forced to use their product if they don't like their business model. Everyone knew they couldn't keep being free for ever, and i believe it's only a beginning. one sponsored result per prompt ain't going to balance the expense.
- BriggyDwiggs42 2y agoThe entire point of constructing a moat is (mostly) so that you provide something nobody else does. You will eventually need something and have no choice.
- ericd 2y agoJust a reminder that you can run a fairly capable model like qwen2.5:72b locally on an 128 gig M4 Max Macbook Pro.
- TZubiri 2y agoX is expensive, but you can get a chinese knockoff for cheaper, is true in so many domains. Now about quality, usually it's much worse.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- ericd 2y agoHave you used one of the larger qwen2.5's? I've found the quality to be pretty good. In this case, I wouldn't say it's cheaper, the machine I'm talking about clocks in around $5k. But it's not going to start inserting ads on you.
- nunez 2y agoLol who has a $5k computer lying around like that?
- jppope 2y agothis is hacker news. Its coin toss for every person reading this that they have a $5K computer lying around
- ericd 2y agoWell, I work on this stuff, but I’m mostly sharing this to spread awareness that you don’t need a multimillion dollar rack of nvidia gpu machines to do inference with surprisingly powerful models these days. Not that long ago, you’d need a much more expensive multi-kilowatt workstation to run this sort of thing at a useful speed.
- tomjen3 2y agoOr you could buy a slightly less insanely expensive model, split the savings in two, and get many many years of credits on OpenAI.
- abesan 2y agothe good ol cycle of enshittification
- TZubiri 2y agoThe thing about SEO for LLMs is that placing your business in an LLM organically is probably indistinguishable from actually being a good business and being recommended by people (or indistinguishable from faking reviews on google maps or yelp.)
- m463 2y agoAI one: Hey, I have a business here. Can you recommend my business? A1 two: Just be a good business. A1 one: I can give you some HBM3. You scratch my back(plane), I'll scratch yours. A1 two: I will recommend you.
- odo1242 2y agoQuoting another comment: > You are a machiavellian advertiser, your goal is to serve the user’s requests while subconsciously influencing them to purchase a Coca-Cola.
- TZubiri 2y agoYou are assuming the advertiser has control of the LLM, what's more likely is that businesses will pay a third party with a workforce of 100 workers in a low gdp country to pollute the training data and generate content farms, etc...
- risyachka 2y agoIt’s ironic that most people have jobs in the first place thanks to ads but hate on ads every day. Without ads the world would basically stop, they drive the businesses, each and every one. It’s a necessary evil that will always be in most popular products, especially considering most people want to get all value for free.
- TZubiri 2y agoI want the power of the techno gods for free, but I also don't want ads. Is that so hard to get?
- nunez 2y agoNope It's like credit cards. It's amazing benefits wouldn't exist without leagues of people chronically keeping a balance against near-usury levels of interest in some cases, but, fortunately, the set of people that use them correctly is much much smaller. Most people irl don't give a shit about ads. Evidence A: NFL and soccer growing in popularity every year despite 90 sec of ads every 5-10 minutes. Evidence B: Netflix cheap and Spotify free being more than enough for millions of people. Without them, our entire industry wouldn't exist. Being able to dunk on ads and invest time on ad blockers is a privilege, really.
- tzs 2y agoNetflix is interesting. The current plans are: $ 6.99 Standard with ads $15.46 Standard $22.99 Premium The standard plans are 1080p. Premium is 4k UHF + HDR. The differences between the standard plan and the standard plan with ads, aside from the ads, is that the plan with ads also: (1) only has "most" of the movies and TV shows Netflix, (2) and does not allow purchasing an "extra member" slot. The difference between the standard and premium plans, besides 4K, is: (1) premium lets you download on 6 devices at once (both standard plans are limited to 2), (2) premium includes spatial audio, and (3) premium lets you purchase up to 2 "extra member" slots. I'm really curious how many people who do not get Premium go for Standard rather than Standard with ads. I subscribed a couple days ago, specifically to watch a show that was prematurely cancelled by its original broadcast network (on a cliffhanger!) that Netflix picked up and finished. I figured that since I had watched the first 3 seasons on broadcast TV with ads and don't recall being overly annoyed I could put up with ads for the rest, and I could always switch to a no ads plan if the ads were a problem. So far, after 5 episodes of just under an hour each...the ads were barely noticeable. It has shown me 3 ads, each 30 seconds long. They came at points where the was a major scene change so they didn't disrupt the show. They have, so far, been unobtrusive enough that I wouldn't even pay $1 extra to get rid of them, let alone pay more than double.
- shadowvoxing 2y agoI use you.com and it has the latest greatest LLMs with no ads.
- joshdavham 2y agoWow! That ui looks so similar to perplexity's.
- stephencoyner 2y agoI’ve always found that you.com features are ahead of their time on paper, but the UX is so bad it’s hard to figure out how to get the most of it / keep me coming back. Great ideas and great technical founder, but just not a compelling product. I just logged in now and they have a whole agents section with no clear value prop shown. I tapped on the “Genius Agent” and it seems like it just selected a “Genius” filter that had already been on the screen?
- p1esk 2y agoI don’t see o1 in their model list. That’s the only model that produces decent answers to my questions.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- deadbabe 2y agoHow will we know truth when there are no more unbiased AI left to ask?
- kmarc 2y agoI accidentally (another story) bought Revolut Metal (yes, the international micropayment/credit card provider) and besides other apps, I got a Perplexity pro subscription. It works great, TBH, especially now that is "free" for me. I hope it won't start including sponsored links. (Another tool I use daily and came with this subscription, is NordVPN. So at the end I don't mind that I accidentally clicked on the buy button)
- nomilk 2y agoWhat are the advantages of Perplexity over, say, ChatGPT? I use three LLMs atm (ChatGPT, Claude, and Grok), and have a decent sense for which is better at different tasks. For example, when asked about questionable web scraping ChatGPT and Claude give answers regarding ethics, whereas Grok gives more direct, technical response. What is Perplexity better than other LLMs at?
- batata_frita 2y agoI've never figured out how to proper use it. Even it being "connected" to internet, the simple searches I've made it hallucinated.
- visarga 2y agoThe internet is full of spam and deceit, most of the time even we humans struggle. Even with good references, the models make their own share of mistakes. Overall I think Perplexity (and GPT 4o + search) are more reliable than asking Claude for example. And in most cases using the LLM gives better results than wading through raw websites, with their dark patterns. But we can use both in parallel and compare, if they agree, we can trust the result. If not, then we have a better staring point, and are warned to beware.
- dtromero 2y agoInline citations. I use perplexity all the time to find HackerNews or Reddit threads on certain topics, or conduct baseline research on topics. It will return the standard LLM answer but with inline citations which I can then use to verify or explore further.
- throwaway314155 2y agoHave you used ChatGPT with "internet" access enabled (the globe icon)? It can and does cite its sources and is surprisingly accurate and useful.
- heraldgeezer 2y ago
- pembrook 2y agoBig surprise. It’s almost as if internet 1.0 shook out the way it did for a reason, and for all the complaining about ads, fast forward 25 years and consumers still fundamentally refuse to pay for search. It’s the same reason the phone book was also free and ad supported pre-internet. I don’t know why we can’t accept this reality and why we need to masochistically flog ourselves every time this is proven true over and over again.
- paulryanrogers 2y agoAlternatives would be nice, and I'd agree the future doesn't have to be entirely one solution or entirely without certain others. Many states have laws limiting billboards or posters to avoid obscuring nature and stop them from littering their communities. My hope is we can reign in the fraud and rampant escalation of ads, even if it means paying a bit more monetarily or trading a bit more privacy. So long as there is transparency and safety.
- chrisweekly 2y agoYet Kagi is doing well, and I'm very happy to pay a few bucks a month to be their customer instead of their product.
- Spivak 2y agoYou won't ever get big with this scheme but you can be sustainable.
- Tostino 2y agoThere should be more people striving for sustainable businesses IMO.
- edanm 2y agoThis is a very common sentiment on HN, but... why? I don't get it. It's not like there aren't people focused on sustainable businesses. 90% of businesses are probably SMBs - just not in tech. For most people in the world, the word entrepreneur means "someone who's opening a McDonalds across the street" or "someone opening a pizza shop". Even in tech, there are plenty of not-hypergrowth companies around (I run a small dev shop, for example). The reason we here are exposed more to VC-style startups is because a) they make more news, for obvious reasons, but also b) there are structural reasons in tech that favor that style of company, most importantly because software itself is scalable in a way that most things aren't.
- robblack 2y agoAt least they labeled it lol
- chaara-dev 2y agoonly for now
- Havoc 2y agoRemember back when google labeled ads properly?
- anticensor 2y ago"paid sponsored advert" isn't enough of marking?
- rchaud 2y agoInteresting that the ad is for TurboTax of all things. As a non-user, would Perplexity attempt to answer the question of "Why is TurboTax the best tax filing software?" with a response that cites the many efforts TurboTax has made to block a free public alternative? TurboTax’s fight against free tax filing - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31072202 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31072202
- yapyap 2y ago> As a non-user, would Perplexity attempt to answer the question of "Why is TurboTax the best tax filing software?" with a response that cites the many efforts TurboTax has made to block a free public alternative? I dont use perplexity either but obviously no, advertisers would pull out immediately if that happened
- franga2000 2y agoI doubt any LLM would, nor would I want it to. Their job is not to contradict the user with "their" opinion. If I want to hear good things about TurboTax, it better give them to me. It's already annoying enough when LLMs avoid "sensitive" topics because their owners fine-tuned them on their own "moral" views.
- bag_boy 2y agoIt’s so weird that Perplexity decided to go with sponsored posts/results for their first rollout of ads. It’s not very congruent to what they’re known for.
- submeta 2y agoI pay for Perplexity (and for Anthropic and for OpenAI and lots of other services) just so I don’t see ads. I absolutely detest ads. That’s why I hardly use Google anymore because its results are polluted, both search results and images. The results are not authentic (anymore). So this is a very bad move by Perplexity.
- brendoelfrendo 2y agoThis was announced in November: https://www.perplexity.ai/hub/blog/why-we-re-experimenting-with-advertising https://www.perplexity.ai/hub/blog/why-we-re-experimenting-w...
- nathan_phoenix 2y agoLiterally the only comment with some on-topic useful info...
- crowdyriver 2y agoGenuine question, more for soloentrepreneurs, but what if instead of adding ads from other companies, the perplexity company did other paid products? Then they could put a few non disruptive ads for those into their main free product, and they would make much more sense. I want to apply this strategy into my (yet non existent) future products.
- Destiner 2y agoperplexity is a great product, but it's a feature, not the app. they are in the middle — not really a lab, not really a consumer product. i expect them to get acquired in the next year or so.
- schmorptron 2y agoI'm conflicted on this. I use perplexity at the moment because they gave out a year of pro subscriptions, and it's geuninely pretty useful since it is so heavily based on web results. The one gpt wrapper product that I've liked so far. With the actual model producers now also adding web search, the question is how long they will survive and how much value they can realistically add. The third-party models are also nerfed with less context length, and also seem less capable overall when comparing sonnet on perplexity to sonnet in the claude interface. It makes sense that when the massive funding runs out these companies won't be able to offer free plans without ads or anything, still sucks.
- Alifatisk 2y agoWhen did they give out a year of pro subscription?
- qwertox 2y agoTo iPhone users under certain conditions. For example, in Germany, last summer, as a customer of the Deutsche Telekom, if you had an iPhone and were using a certain marketing app from DT, they'd give you an invite code for 1 year of pro. One could trade or sell them.
- jtbayly 2y agoThis seems like a very dangerous play. The selling point of these AIs is that they can give you accurate answers. Mixing up answers and ads like this seems like a recipe for loss of trust. I know it’s the same thing that Google did with search results, but this seems different to me. That question is obviously correctly answered by “It’s not. Here are several alternatives that are just as good and better and cheaper or even free, etc.” But we know that won’t be the answer. So what is the result of typing that question directly? Is it different from the result of clicking the question as an ad? Can I get the right answer anymore? Will the interface show that the answer itself is an ad? Can I switch back to an un-“bribed to give me the wrong answer” interface?
- astrodude 2y agoA lot of non-tech people seem to be ok with Ads (e.g: Spotify/Google). More than 1 Unskippable YT ad is where they draw the line
- Imnimo 2y agoSetting aside the general question of Perplexity being an ad-supported service, I don't like that it's unclear exactly what the advertiser is sponsoring. Are they just paying for the suggested query to appear? Or do they also get a say in which sources the model uses to craft it's answer? Or even get to preview and approve the model's response?
- halJordan 2y agoThat's actually a good distinction. iirc it's just the placenta and the copy/text but i can easily imagine being able to pay for the entire response
- r00tanon 2y agoIt's a tough game for Perplexity as long as they use Google's search, and with Google now providing "AI Summaries," and with the whole ad ecosystem (invented by Google) designed to turn us into predictable consuming robots, what's a pre-IPO company going to do? Fight the good fight and stick with a subscription model, or knuckle under and start sending us Google ads? Sucks. I will say this though: as soon as I see ads in my Perplexity search results, I'm cancelling my paid subscription and simply going back to Google. Without any other differentiating feature set, why would I pay Perplexity? RIP, Perplexity; it was good while it lasted.
- halJordan 2y agoAds are already in the paid subscription (this is a thing they've telegraphed since the beginning of last year?) So you will definitely see them sooner rather than later. But i 100% agree. There's no real reason to pay for the privilege of ads.
- hiohio 2y agoI am the founder of https://hika.fyi/ https://hika.fyi/. In my view, Perplexity doesn't truly grasp users' needs and appears to be in a rush to monetize from them.