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> The Dems failed on this count massively What was their failure here? The failure to explain to the economically illiterate that while inflation is now about
by UncleOxidant 2y ago
> The Dems failed on this count massively
What was their failure here? The failure to explain to the economically illiterate that while inflation is now about where it was prior to covid that prices won't be going down (unless there's some sort of major recession leading to deflation)?
- liveoneggs 2y agoThey failed to articulate that they understood the frustration with high prices + low wages in a way that made people feel motivated enough to vote for them.
- EricDeb 2y agoExactly its all messaging and if the messaging is not getting through you need to go where voters are discussing these things (podcasts, youtube shows, tikTok, etc). And they needed to start doing it 2 years ago not 4 months ago.
- kagakuninja 2y agoThat was a key element of the Harris platform, but nobody gives a shit. Trump boasts about fixing everything overnight with no specifics, and gets a free pass.
- vundercind 2y agoThe media definitely didn’t learn that competing for horse-race viewers at the cost of all else gives Trump a large advantage. They all talked about that lesson in 2016, but didn’t really learn it. Clearly, given how they behaved.
- liveoneggs 2y agoHer failure to articulate her platform is her fault. The words chosen by the Harris campaign, and the platforms on which they were spoken, left 15M - 20M people at home, and flipped a bunch more from D to R.
- schmidtleonard 2y agoThey failed to hammer home that Trump printed the goddamn money. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2NS https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2NS
- UncleOxidant 2y agoI'm not sure this would've helped. It require more than a 10 second attention span. Explaining inflation is a 120IQ problem whereas most campaigns are aiming at sub 100IQ communication.
- schmidtleonard 2y agoI'm sure that the idea was raised in Democratic campaign strategy meetings and likely rejected for exactly that reason, but I don't think the reasoning is correct. "Trump printed the money" isn't hard to understand. Hard to believe, perhaps, and I'm sure he would deny it, but it puts him on the defense and beats the hell out of a thundering silence that implicitly accepts his premise that Dems were responsible for inflation.
- onlyrealcuzzo 2y agoThey couldn't blame Trump for printing the money because nearly all of them voted for the stimulus. Blaming Trump for printing money when you voted on it, too, is a bad strategy.
- burningChrome 2y agoThis is precisely why you lost in 2016 and why you lost in 2024. Thinking you're always smarter than the electorate is never a way to win elections. fixing inflation is pretty easy. Telling people how you're going to do that is pretty easy. Not doing it because you think people are too stupid to understand it is why you lost. Harris never had a plan to fix anything and it was obvious to voters. Its funny you think this way when Trump swept all the battleground states - states Biden won in 2020. Were you saying the same thing about THOSE areas too then? I somehow doubt it.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> What was their failure here? One, that last round of stimulus. Two, not agreeing to cutting spending when prices continued going up. Three, not massively greenlighting permitting around new energy and fossil fuels to bring energy prices into a deflationary stance. (Note: this is Monday-morning QB’ing from me.)
- schmidtleonard 2y agoAll tiny next to the money trump printed.
- JumpCrisscross 2y agoSure. But that’s the last guy. The question is what Democrats could have done in power. With the benefit of hindsight, it would have been massively over correcting on prices and the border.
- tunesmith 2y agoThat stimulus thing seemed like a double bind. Lower stimulus would have meant less inflation but worse unemployment, right? The whole pattern feels like a repeat of the country using Democrats to clean up messes (in this case, the mess was more Covid's than Republicans'), at which point they kick out the Democrats again. I don't think another massive tax cut (or extension of the last one) is a good idea.
- UncleOxidant 2y ago> Lower stimulus would have meant less inflation but worse unemployment, right? Yes, this is likely what would have happened. And in that case the Dems would still lose because people would be upset about the high unemployment.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> Lower stimulus would have meant less inflation but worse unemployment, right? Yes, but you can target where that unemployment goes. Democrats were probably too fair in distributing the pain. (As well as the fruits. Both the IRA and CHIPS Acts massively invested in counties that would have always voted Republican. That boosted turnout in an adversarial way.)
- drawkward 2y agoYes! That is exactly their failure! As explained by the venerable poets, "The Doobie Brothers": >But what a fool believes, he sees >No wise man has the power to reason away >What seems to be >Is always better than nothing >Than nothing at all By failing to meet the economically illiterate at their level, the DNC campaign looked completely oblivious to those they were trying to help.
- crazygringo 2y agoYup, there's nothing they could have done. That's the tragedy of it. You can't just educate people in a campaign that the President doesn't cause inflation, when it's the result of a global pandemic. They just don't listen and don't care. The different campaign messages get tested among focus groups. The ones that try to teach economics or explain inflation perform terribly. This isn't a failure of Democrats at all. This is just pure economic ignorance among voters.
- drawkward 2y agoTo paraphrase Rumsfeld: "You go to elections with the populace you have." If the Dems don't/won't/can't account for it by changing their messaging, devising better or more readily understood platforms, then it is on them. You have to meet people where they are, not where you think they should be.
- crazygringo 2y agoBut the Dems did. They did everything you're asking for. Their messaging was totally different from 2020, everything was clear and understandable. That's what's so sad. The Democratic campaign was A+ in execution. The Republican campaign was a disaster in execution, but they won anyway. The message of this election isn't that Democrats did something wrong. It's that they did everything right, and a majority of voters simply still don't care. They don't think the insurrection mattered, and they think Trump will fix inflation because he's a strong businessman. And they don't listen to anyone who says otherwise. I don't see anything the Dems could have done about that. You can't force people to listen, you can't force people to understand economics. That's not something campaigns can do.
- si1entstill 2y agoIts hard to say what happened internally, but Biden could have stepped down in time for them to have a proper primary.
- _DeadFred_ 2y agoThe democrats told people who are suffering 'the economy is great, this is what great looks like to us'. How is that a winning message with people suffering?
- einrealist 2y agoIndeed, and now we can sit back and watch when those his voters realize, that Trump will not "fix" inflation either. In fact, if he executes on what he advertised during his campaign, it will get much worse.
- bni 2y agoThen they can just blame it on "the deep state", how convenient
- einrealist 2y agoNot if "Project 2025" is implemented. Then the Republicans created a real Deep State. Who will Republican voters blame then?
- crooked-v 2y agoThey'll still blame "the Deep State" and just mean anyone they don't like.
- _DeadFred_ 2y agoNot pro Trump here. The Dems failed to understand that telling people who are really struggling (my community is really struggling, it's sad to see people in the grocery store barely able to afford food, this is the reality, heck I'm struggling) that the economy is doing great isn't a winning message. They should have ran on 'we are working really hard on fixing things and this is what we have accomplished'. But a campaign telling people suffering that 'the economy is doing great' resonates 0% and just tells those struggling that the campaign doesn't see them/care that they are suffering.
- jaapbadlands 2y agoI never once heard Harris say 'the economy is doing great'.
- FooBarBizBazz 2y agoI heard Biden and partisans say it a lot, and I cringed every time. In his first State of the Union, I clearly remember him bragging about record high house prices. I cringed at that too. What did Harris herself say? Not much; she barely had any time. There was one voice within the Democratic Party whose communication about this was good: Bernie Sanders.
- PaulDavisThe1st 2y agoHarris did not (or may not have) but Democratic punditry and commentariats were full of "the economy is objectively great, why is it subjectively sucking?" articles, for months.
- LargeWu 2y agoBecause they look at metrics like GDP and the stock market and unemployment, and fail to realize that it's not evenly distributed. Increasing GDP and stock market indicate somebody is making a lot of money, but the average voter isn't seeing any of that in their own lives.
- 2y ago
- ComplexSystems 2y agoThe failure is in this very common exchange Average voter: I can't afford groceries at the store. Inflation sucks. Response: Actually, here is the correct definition of "inflation." As you can see from the correct definition, inflation rates are now good! Hopefully this helps you understand why things will never get better. What the average voter hears: I can't afford groceries. Your solution to this problem is to reframe the current situation as "good." I still can't afford groceries.
- whoknew1122 2y agoBut what is the response that works? Average: I can't afford groceries at the store. Inflation sucks. Response: Well, inflation plays a part, but grocery stores are still recording record profits despite inflation. Average: Are you suggesting grocery stores shouldn't make as much money as they can? Free market hater! Communist!
- spankalee 2y agoI think there are two things: 1. Try the Trump/populist playbook on the topic: identify the problem, empathize, be mad, let them vent, but don't really focus on a solution. 2. Advocate austerity as a solution to inflation. Might be less economically ideal, but more politically viable. edit to add: iow, Harris and other Dems could have thrown Biden under the bus a bit to try to avoid some of the blame. It's cold, and Biden directed an actually decent response to the supply-shock-driven inflation, but it'd be a kind of shrewdness like getting Biden to drop out that might have helped.
- UncleOxidant 2y ago> Try the Trump/populist playbook on the topic: identify the problem, And ideally put the blame on people who don't have any/much political or economic power within the country, like immigrants. Us vs them. "If we just get rid of 'them' everything will be fine"
- pie_flavor 2y agoThere isn't, really. Inflation is irredeemable and you just have to be overwhelmingly better in other aspects, which she wasn't. The solution is to not have allowed it to happen in the first place.
- rib3ye 2y ago> What was their failure here? The failure to explain to the economically illiterate that while inflation is now about where it was prior to covid that prices won't be going down (unless there's some sort of major recession leading to deflation)? When is over-communication on the problem the team needs to solve ever a bad thing?
- eweise 2y agoThe failure was keeping the economy locked down too long and sending checks to everyone in the world. My father in law that lives in Germany for the past 50 years, got a check from the US.
- ironman1478 2y agoI think that's the wrong way of thinking about it. The prices of goods are high, people hate it and want it fixed. What plans do the Dems have for actually addressing the high prices? They can say this instead: "I know things are expensive now, here is how I will do X, Y, Z to fix it". It could be saying they'll raise the minimum wage to reduce the effects of the inflation, provide some sort of tax break, straight up give people money, or something (I know that the ideas I proposed aren't necessarily good. Inducing demand is bad, etc, etc). What doesn't win is telling people why we got to where we are and what does win is telling people what you're gonna do about it. Trump does that, even if it's all lies or based on bad information and that gets people excited. Are the tariffs gonna be bad? Most likely, but hey it's doing something and to most people, that is enough for them since there is a lot of nothing happening.
- kagakuninja 2y agoYou could go to the Harris website and read their plans, they discuss all your points. https://kamalaharris.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Policy_Book_Economic-Opportunity.pdf https://kamalaharris.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Policy_B... Now compare that to Trump's non-existent plan. No one cares, that is what is so depressing.
- vundercind 2y agoThat what your actual proposals are does not matter appears to be true, but is pretty wild. I guess it’s an open question whether a Dem could run with a total lack of substance and pure vibes (while they and, incredibly, the media accuse their opponent of having no policies? Or is that too much to hope for? Do we think in the reverse situation Fox News would be talking about how the R candidate was being too vague, even as they were being less vague than the D candidate, as the “liberal” media did endlessly in this race?) without weakening the get-out-the-vote for their base so much that they perform even worse. Might work, might not. We only know it works for the current right.
- quonn 2y agoWouldn't that just be lying to people? Most of the measures you suggested, especially straight up give people money will just increase inflation further.
- techfeathers 2y agoI think the only solution was also the craziest/most risky and the party would have never gone for it. Hold an open primary with a candidate that talks in no uncertain terms about the failures of the Biden presidency, and the new path forward, criticizing the Biden admin for not doing enough on inflation. I think essentially Trump won in 2016 and 2024 because he was willing to take such a risk against political norms, and this was a change election. No explaining the causes of inflation, or what Biden did right and incremental steps were going to change that. People wanted a visionary leader, and while I disagree with Trump, I think Trump and Musk provided that new vision for America. I hate this by the way, I'm an incrementalist policy wonk who in general hates visionary leadership. But Trump talked about stopping at nothing to remake the American economy to radically improve the lives of all Americans. Harris talked about $25,000 to buy a house.
- drawkward 2y agoWelcome to the social media era of elections! Vibes > Policy
- marcosdumay 2y ago> criticizing the Biden admin for not doing enough on inflation But the Biden admin clearly did enough to fight inflation. He may even have done too much. The framing of the US discussion around inflation is itself a lie.
- techfeathers 2y agoThis is kinda the point I'm trying to make, that in the current environment most people want a leader who isn't afraid of lying to make a point. That is in my perspective what vision mostly is. When things are in crisis, like 2020, people were probably more comforted by boring competence. For instance, in terms of visionary leadership, I think Musk fans mostly don't care that he lies about when a product will be delivered. They want to believe so to speak.
- marcosdumay 2y ago
- rqtwteye 2y ago“ economically illiterate ” You got your explanation here. Arrogance and dismissiveness of voters.
- purplethinking 2y agoThe left is way more economically illiterate than the right. Price ceilings, unrealized capital gains taxes, more "socialism" in general is not good economic policy.
- rqtwteye 2y agoI would argue both US parties have given up on serious economics.
- dyauspitr 2y agoHonestly what Trump would do in this situation is distract with a bunch of other nonsense and make that the talking point instead. Dems haven’t stooped to this level yet to their detriment. The whole thing is pretty sad.
- trinsic2 2y agoIMHO national politics is insane, both parties use propaganda to hide from the real issues and are only interested in maintaining a keeping political power and money at the behest of corrupt corporations. I don't think an election in a 2 party dominated system is going to fix this, history has been repeating itself since the 60ies. People need to change there thinking about supporting a system that doesn't work before we make any headway in correcting these problems.
- vundercind 2y agoFixing it would require constitutional amendments, because it’s an outcome of our system of elections and structure of government.
- trinsic2 2y agoYep. Good luck with that (Not directed at you).
- drawkward 2y agoThis right here. I just got a fundraising text message from the Dems today. Like: are you F'ing kidding me? You guys and gals just flushed the executive and legislative branches down the shitter, and you want MORE money? Shows me what the DNC really cares about: itself.
- cm2187 2y agoThere are people who are economically literate, and who recognise that the massive money printing under trump to deal with the covid shut down of the economy contributed to inflation, as did the war in ukraine and supply chain disruptions, but that also, everything the dems did after that made the problem worse. By the time Biden took power, vaccines were getting rolled out, lockdowns were not warranted anymore, and the massive spending that Biden pushed was unnecessarily inflationary, as Manchin said at the time. And the fed kept printing money way after it should have stopped, most likely to support Biden's spending plan.
- epolanski 2y agoInflation happened globally not just in the US. Also salaries in US kept with the inflation while globally they didn't. The US economy is doing great, but inflation doesn't make it feel like it. I myself feel it. I'm not from US, I'm European and make around $110k per year. Yet I skip on 5€/kg tomatoes even though I made 28k just 3 years ago and they costed half of it.
- TrackerFF 2y agoThe sad fact is that if you have to explain something to voters, you've lost. Voters don't want explanations, they want solutions. You be correct and say something factually as "The economy is fine, all indicators are moving the right direction - we're back to pre-COVID levels" but still lose massively on that. And as it turns out, whether or not your solutions is rooted in reality - apparently doesn't mater for the average voter. Harris went with the "We're not gonna make any changes", when people are moaning about the economy. That was her fatal error. Trump and MAGA continued to hammer on about how terrible the economy is, and how they're going to make China pay, while lowering taxes. Again: voters don't want explanations, they want solutions.
- timssopomo 2y agoNo, it's the failure to do anything about it. Americans got robbed of something between 20-40% of the purchasing power of their dollar depending on what they're buying. People aren't stupid, they know they're getting hoodwinked when someone focuses on the fact that the rate of robbery is slowing down rather then the fact that they didn't stop the robbery in the first place.
- stcroixx 2y agoThey failed to put the majority of voters in better position financially than they were under Trump.