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New 13- and 15‑inch MacBook Air with M3 chip
- lcnmrn 3y agoMBA needs to go back to previous design with keyboard from MBP.
- bearjaws 3y agoI am most interested to see if the M4 chip will dramatically improve performance of local LLMs. I like M1 Pro so far with models up to 30-70b parameters, but the memory bandwidth is my current limit. With a large jump in unified memory and bandwidth we could see 120b parameter models running on a laptop. As a side note, why does Apple continue to reference the Intel MacBook Air... It's over 6 years old now, no shit this new CPU is 16x faster...
- hhh 3y agoTo influence the (probably) still large user base of Intel macbook owners to upgrade I would assume
- brucethemoose2 3y agoApple could dramatically improve performance if they just tasked one Metal engineer on llama.cpp. Like, just to finish up flash attention and quantum KV cache, and optimize the Metal kernels. I wouldn't be surprised if they could double performance. I know Apple is pushing MLX, and MLC-LLM is fast too, but in practice most Mac users (I think) are using llama.cpp based stacks.
- dghlsakjg 3y agoI'm a senior software dev that is still using the last of the intel macs (granted a maxed out 16" not an air). These kind of comparisons are still valid for me. There are plenty of others less technical than me that want these too. The youngest intel Airs only just aged out of applecare coverage last year, and for most casual users getting 4 years out of an Apple computer is totally expected.
- steve_adams_86 3y agoMy personal laptop is 7 years old so these comparisons are relevant to me, too. I’ve operated on my Air a bit to reduce thermal throttling and I don’t use it for anything crazy so it’s still useful, but one of these days I’ll upgrade. I’m sure there are plenty of people like us with these old beasts.
- kjkjadksj 3y agoWhat is the appeal of running this sort of stuff locally though? Its still slower and less memory than a cluster or just a strong server. Just ssh into some horsepower and keep your lap cold.
- retskrad 3y agoI can't tell the difference between my new M1 Max MacBook Pro and the new M3 Max Macbook Pro. Corporations have become pros at exploiting our human psychology. Their ads can make you believe that the smallest bump in improvements will make your older computer appear useless in comparison. That's why it's for the best if you avoid ads as much as possible.
- fh9302 3y agoThe difference is really obvious during code compilation or other tasks that can take advantage of all cores.
- geerlingguy 3y agoSpeaking only of the Air here: The newer laptop feels thicker, since it doesn't have the nice tapered front. In general use, outside of only one external display in clamshell mode, the M1 feels similar. If you push things, like for video editing or rendering, the M2 or M3 are markedly better. However, you quickly hit throttling if you push for more than a couple minutes at a time (like when you export in Handbrake, it will slow down and only run marginally faster than the M1, in my experience).
- bombcar 3y agoSomeone should sell a little app for Mac that glows red when an upgrade would have been useful (e.g, when you maxed out your max Mac). I suspect mine would be green almost all the time, even on this almost three year old M1 Max.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- bigfudge 3y agoThis is a cool idea, although presumably m3 would be faster even for single thread apps? Also, are there cases where memory bandwidth could leave cpu at less than 100% on m1 but still be faster on m3?
- 3y ago
- brewmarche 3y ago> Support for up to two external displays: MacBook Air with M3 now supports up to two external displays when the laptop lid is closed
- RamRodification 3y agoThe future is here!
- zuhsetaqi 3y agoMost interesting change: > Support for up to two external displays: MacBook Air with M3 now supports up to two external displays when the laptop lid is closed …
- input_sh 3y agoSo it's still limited to two monitors, but now one of them doesn't necessarily need to be the internal one?
- zuhsetaqi 3y agoSeems like it. Which is a huge win in my opinion. To bad the base MacBook Pro M3 14" doesn't have that feature
- benfa94 3y agowhich version of the MacBook Pro 14" do i need to buy to have this feature?
- dataworm 3y agoIt doesn't because the M3 has two dedicated DP outputs. O̶n̶e̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶r̶o̶u̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶T̶h̶u̶n̶d̶e̶r̶b̶o̶l̶t̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶o̶t̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶'̶t̶.̶ ̶O̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶M̶3̶ ̶M̶B̶P̶,̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶D̶P̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶H̶D̶M̶I̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶v̶e̶r̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶n̶e̶c̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶m̶e̶r̶ ̶o̶u̶t̶p̶u̶t̶,̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶d̶i̶s̶p̶l̶a̶y̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶l̶a̶t̶t̶e̶r̶.̶ ̶O̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶M̶B̶A̶,̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶d̶i̶s̶p̶l̶a̶y̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶n̶e̶c̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶r̶o̶u̶t̶a̶b̶l̶e̶ ̶o̶u̶t̶p̶u̶t̶.̶ The M2 also has a routable output, you can connect two USB-C displays to an M2 Mac mini if you don't use the HDMI port. It's unclear why Apple didn't enable that feature on the M2 MBA. Edit: I had a brainfart and forgot that both ports are routable. It's market segmentation or stupidity like with the M2 MBA.
- rvz 3y agoGreat news and another reason to upgrade to the M3 series if you're using an M1 and like to use local LLMs or anything AI. This time, it supports for up to two external displays with the lid closed. The Macbook Air with M1 is already discontinued. [0]. Can't wait for the Mac mini with M3 Max or Mac Studio with M3 Ultra. [0] https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-discontinues-m1-macbook-air/ https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-discontinues-m1-m...
- dangoodmanUT 3y agoit's so clear that they limit it to 24GB to prevent cannibalization of the macbook pro. I personally could go for a M3 base chip with 64GB or 128GB of memory.
- the-grump 3y agoAnd, of course, it starts at 8GB of RAM to nudge you up from $1100 to $1300/$1500. At which point you might as well spring for the Pro. I can't fault the business logic but as someone who'd only use a Mac for occasional iOS development, this nudging upward dissuades me from pursuing that idea altogether.
- bombcar 3y agoOne you get to "reasonable specs" you're into the Pro, and they know it. The Air with 16GB is not too bad, especially if you get the discounts that are everywhere.
- microtonal 3y agoI still want a MacBook Air with 32GB RAM or more. The Air is lighter and more compact than the Pro. (I currently use a MacBook Pro because of the memory limit on the Air.)
- ephemeral-life 3y agoIf you only use it for occasional ios dev, rather get a mac mini. As a bonus, when your done with it, put asahi linux on it and itd be a great home server.
- the-grump 3y agoI've considered that and might end up taking that route but the nice thing about a MacBook is I can take it with me on trips and learn iOS when I get bored. There's a big server rack at home with multiple servers, so the Linux server part isn't a draw in my case.
- dbbk 3y ago
- marban 3y ago"MacBook Air can also run optimized AI models, including large language models (LLMs) and diffusion models for image generation locally with great performance."
- addandsubtract 3y agoWorthless PR. Further down, another selling point is "MacBook Air supports cloud-based solutions, enabling users to run powerful productivity and creative apps that tap into the power of AI, such as Microsoft Copilot for Microsoft 365, Canva, and Adobe Firefly." Wow. Until they support CUDA or more ML/AI implementations on their chips, this is just marketing speak.
- eutropia 3y agoI run Mixtral 8x-7B on my M1 max mpb with llamafile, and Stable Diffusion - the backend for both is running via Metal implementations for Pytorch et al... But "supports cloud-based solutions" is a pretty lame way to sell it.
- yoavm 3y agoThat's actually funny. My ThinkPad with Arch Linux also supports Microsoft 365, Canva, and Adobe Firefly! Since when are we advertising a list of "supported websites"?
- karmakaze 3y agoLooking at this list comparing the M3 with M1 doesn't motivate me to want the M3. It seems most gains are GPU related. The M2 was underwhelming, and it seems the M3 isn't much better than the M2 so comparing against M1. > M3 takes MacBook Air performance even further: > Game titles like No Man’s Sky run up to 60 percent faster than the 13-inch MacBook Air with the M1 chip. > Enhancing an image with AI using Photomator’s Super Resolution feature is up to 40 percent faster than the 13-inch model with the M1 chip, and up to 15x faster for customers who haven’t upgraded to a Mac with Apple silicon. > Working in Excel spreadsheets is up to 35 percent faster than the 13-inch model with the M1 chip, and up to 3x faster for customers who haven’t upgraded to a Mac with Apple silicon. > Video editing in Final Cut Pro is up to 60 percent faster than the 13-inch model with the M1 chip, and up to 13x faster for customers who haven’t upgraded to a Mac with Apple silicon. > Compared to a PC laptop with an Intel Core i7 processor, MacBook Air delivers up to 2x faster performance, up to 50 percent faster web browsing, and up to 40 percent longer battery life. Combining the two datapoints 15x faster than Mac with non-Apple-silicon and 2x faster than PC with i7 makes it seem like Intel parts have improved a lot since Apple stopped using them.
- asplake 3y agoSpeaking of video, I’m on my second MacBook Air and have been very happy with them both except for one consistent concern, their unreliability with regard to external displays. It bothers me sufficiently for me to bring my Apple TV with me when delivering training, which is kinda ridiculous. I think my next one will be a Pro. That’s a pity really – I like the Air form factor and I don’t really need the extra power. I do think I need a real HDMI port though.
- CodeNest 3y ago[dead]
- Andrew_nenakhov 3y agoFor anyone having issues with only one external display at once, DisplayLink adapters work very well, allowing you to connect much more displays if you need them.
- microtonal 3y agoIt comes with a bunch of downsides though. It is lossy, requires a third-party driver (and you become dependent on them to provide timely updates for new macOS releases), protected content from iTunes and other players is not visible on the laptop display when DisplayLink adapters are connected, a bunch of HiDPI resolutions are missing on Apple Silicon Macs, etc. USB-C Alt-Mode and Thunderbolt always trump DisplayLink. So it's best to figure out first what displays you want to connect and then buy the Mac that supports that configuration. But if you already have a Mac that doesn't support the number of displays that you want to hook up, DisplayLink is a solution. Luckily, these new MacBook Air models support two external 5K@60Hz displays with the lid closed.
- reactordev 3y agoMine requires no driver, it's plug and play. I just get the Apple Security nag when I plug (anything) in.
- sys_64738 3y agoDisplayLink can get an LCD to re-engage from sleep which Apple's built in ports often can't. Try switching off your Dell LCD attached directly to an M2 Mini.
- microtonal 3y agoWorks fine for me across a bunch of LG and Dell displays hooked up with DisplayPort (DP-Alt over Type-C). I only had this issue with a StarTech Thunderbolt hub (used to work fine until it didn’t).
- Andrew_nenakhov 3y ago> It is lossy, I was cautious about this issue before buying the device, but the fears turned out to be unfounded. Sure it won't be good enough for competitive gaming or something like that, but watching youtube is pretty good, and text rendering is indistinguishable from regular display. The only issue is that refresh rate seems to be about 30fps but for many tasks it is acceptable. > USB-C Alt-Mode and Thunderbolt always trump DisplayLink. Yes, but does it allow you to connect 3 displays to your notebook? I actually wanted just 2 external displays, but the DisplayLink device had 2 ports, and I have many HDMI displays laying around, so I connected 3 because I can.
- switch007 3y ago£1,699 for 13" Air with M3 (8/10/16), 24GB RAM, 512GB vs £2,299 (from Costco) for 14" MBP M3 Pro (11/14/16), 36GB RAM, 512GB I'm unsure if £600 extra is worth it for average dev use? The main points I know are: better screen, speakers, fans, 12GB extra ram. But not sure about valuing those at £600. Hm (I'm making this specific comparison because I've just ordered the MBP, but could return it, and get the MBA :D)
- switch007 3y ago(replying to myself) Half the reason I'm getting is a Mac is because they're so nice to look at, so I think I really want the better screen. And the extra RAM is always nice. And I know I'll appreciate the decent speakers. Plus it'll arrive way quicker. I think I'm happy with the MBP...
- tailspin2019 3y agoFWIW I think you made a good choice with the MBP
- theGnuMe 3y agoYou will never regret more memory but if you want value, put that 600 into nvidia or apple stock.
- kjkjadksj 3y agoYeah by the time you realize you are ram bound that nvda stock might be worth a new computer outright.
- vundercind 3y agoDefine "average dev use". My personal machine is a 16GB M1 Air. I never wish I had more horsepower. It's simply never an issue. My work machine is a 16GB M1 Pro. Ditto. Really, I'd probably be fine on an M1 Air for that, too. [EDIT] Yes I run local docker containers, though not with huge production datasets or for load testing or whatever—all that works fine. And, hell, they run faster than the shitty oversubscribed VMs our K8S cluster hands out anyway—I see way worse performance in prod. [EDIT EDIT] Oh and I used to compile a fairly big C++ program on my Air pretty regularly, and use it to test/develop a big 3D application. Worked fine. Took a damn beefy server to compile that project much faster than my Air did.
- ketzo 3y agoThe degree to which Apple has kinda just “won” laptops is nuts to me. $999 for an 13-inch M2 Air is just bonkers. You can easily pay $1500, even $2000 for Windows laptops that are hotter, heavier, AND slower.
- snizovtsev 3y ago$999 is for soldered 8GB/256GB crap. Add $400 for 16GB/512GB models.
- ofrzeta 3y agoIt's not crap, though. I am using the exact config with an M1 and it's really quite usable, even for development. Also I have hundreds of tabs open. You can even watch movies because the speakers are so good - opposed to any PC laptop I ever owned.
- sys_64738 3y agoIt might be usable but the cost difference of 8/256 and 16/512 is negligible. But Apple wants to price gouge you if you want the latter. Computing hardware was always about providing the maximum upfront to give headroom in the future.
- dbbk 3y agoI can guarantee you that most people buying the $999 laptop have 5 Chrome tabs open and don't store files on their computer. 8GB/256GB is fine.
- dboreham 3y agoThen they could use a $200 Chromebook.
- vundercind 3y agoWorse battery life, such weak hardware (you're bringing up $200 models) that they're laggy and shitty even with a few Chrome tabs, bad trackpads, terrible accessibility options compared to Macs (I was very surprised to discover this latter issue when configuring my elderly father's Chromebook, given the market for Chromebooks is basically kids and old people) $200 Chromebooks are the kind my various teacher friends complain about because they're so shit that they even drive elementary school kids crazy.
- buggythebug 3y agoLots of worthless criticism. If you want the latest and greatest buy it. If you are upgrading from an Intel macbook air than get the m3 - who wants to buy last years version
- keiferski 3y agoKind of disappointing that they seem to have discontinued the 11” model. I bought one 5 or 6 years ago and it’s still working fine. Compared to the 13” and 15” models, it feels so much more portable and lightweight.
- nicole_express 3y agoAgreed here. Though the bezels have been reduced quite a bit, a similarly bezel-reduced 11" would be amazingly compact and useful in my book.
- kjkjadksj 3y agoIf you want a really compact device all apple offers today is the ipad, and then you have to deal with ipad os. I feel like as long as the ipad exists they will not make a new 11 inch unfortunately.
- Keyframe 3y agoOutside of pricing, why would one buy Air vs Pro these days? I've had OG Air back in the day and tapered form factor was great. I recently was in an Apple store and looked at pro and airs.. they felt same, and also air seemed heavy (compared to ye olde tapered one). Now with Pro at 14" and Air pushing to 15".. why?
- earthwalker99 3y agoFor photo/video editors, the Pro screen alone is worth more than the entire laptop. To be clear, the Pro screen is equal to a professional HDR reference monitor, and the entire laptop costs less than a professional HDR reference monitor.
- silverlake 3y agoThe weight of the 13" Air vs 15" Air vs 14" Pro is 2.7 > 3.3 > 3.4 lbs. For developers who do development on remote machines, weight and form factor are more important. I would pay top dollar for a 12" Macbook with M processor because I do my focused editing on a big screen. Other people use their laptop for everything so a 15" screen is preferred. Also, different strokes for different folks.
- kjkjadksj 3y agoThe 14 inch is already so light imo its probably worth it to splurge just to get things like the non gimped screen
- dml2135 3y agoI have an M2 13" air for a personal computer and a 14" pro for work. The Air is noticeably lighter and much easier to throw in a bag without thinking about managing weight. The Pro is a fine weight for commuting, but for traveling longer distances, the weight definitely makes a difference. To the point where I'm seriously considering setting up a work partition on my personal machine so I don't need to lug the pro around on an upcoming trip.
- lifeinthevoid 3y agoPrices in Europe still very bloated compared with US.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- dmitrygr 3y agodo not forget that US prices are quoted without sales tax, whereas most americans will pay sales tax on it adding 6-10%
- lifeinthevoid 3y agoI know, the base model costs €1299 in Belgium, that’s $1400 with the current exchange rate, quite a bit more than $1099 + sales tax.
- baggy_trough 3y agoIsn’t that because of VAT?
- Detrytus 3y agoVAT us a big part of it, another is currency exchange rate. Apple tends to use "1$ = 1EUR" for price conversion (to eliminate financial risk for themselves from fluctuating exchange rates), and then adds VAT on top of it.
- ramesh31 3y agoStill locking 16GB behind the top tier option. Seems like the only way they keep MBP sales from cratering.
- kjkjadksj 3y agoMBA in the last few releases has just been a gimped macbook pro vs a totally different paradigm of product as it was when steve jobs pulled the first one out of a manilla envelope. The weight difference isn’t even that significant anymore its like a half pound or so. Eat a big burrito for lunch and you’re carrying more than that around all day.
- blah-yeah 3y agoI love my m2 mbp 14" Frankly, Apple is an amazing organization and I am extremely thankful that they've empowered product designers to bring us these amazing creations. Apple is one reason that I love existing in this era. Sure, there are others. But having Apple... enables me to bring a laptop + a backup battery (anker 737) practically anywhere and work all day without needing a direct electricity connection. Laptop + Phone + external battery packs = work all day The light weight, stay-cool-ness ... makes it so easy to work from. I love you Apple. So glad to not have to use Windows. Sure, Linux desktops distros are decent (despite bugs), but Apple "just works".
- kylehotchkiss 3y agoI agree; actually being able to work outside again was something I lost with my old 16in intel pro, it couldn’t keep itself awake more than 2 hours
- kjkjadksj 3y agoMy old pro did not have a screen bright enough for sitting on a patio with it either.
- jdashg 3y agoI'm glad it works for you but I definitely use my windows z13 thinkpad all day on battery.
- joshmlewis 3y agoIt's fascinating they used Excel in the product photos instead of Numbers. I wonder who actually uses Numbers these days? Or any of the Apple "productivity" apps for that matter.
- DanielleMolloy 3y agoThey are much better integrated with the system, their UI is great and they are plain and simple. It's not just Keynote that is good. I used Pages for a lot of private stuff like letters, and Numbers suffices for a lot of simple tables too. I avoid the MS Office suite wherever I can. Recently went through some lengths to deactive Microsofts intrusive updating background service (nearly as bad in slowing down my system as Adobes).
- e28eta 3y agoAlso free vs paid. I would be interested to find out how many individuals and families pay for Microsoft’s software, when apple and google provide free alternatives. (Maybe constrained to families that use mac / iphone, Microsoft might be more popular for Windows families?) ie: For most people, if you’re not getting free access through work or school, is it actually worth paying for?
- seuraughty 3y agoI recommend installing office through the App Store to avoid that background service.
- askonomm 3y agoI do. They are there and work just fine for my regular bleb use cases. I also edit Word files in Pages and export to Word just fine. Same with Numbers.
- tehnub 3y agoThey work fine for basic tasks. The other day I wanted to make a basic spreadsheet. I said why not and picked Numbers. Works fine for what I needed.
- 3y ago
- hartator 3y agoI wish they will bring back a smaller form factor. 12" MacBook despiste its CPU flaws was the perfect size.
- blehn 3y agoI really wanted to love the 13" Air but two things made me switch to the Pro after trying it for a few weeks. One is that the internal speakers suck in comparison to the Pro. I 'm not looking for audiophile quality from laptop speakers, but the Pro speakers are good enough for casually watching youtube videos, TV shows, podcasts, etc, whereas the Air speakers are harsh and tinny. The second is that the default resolution isn't .5x the native resolution, as it is for most Apple desktop/laptop displays. It's some weird in-between resolution that creates aliasing on text and such. If you bump it down to a true .5x, it's 1280x~800, which is borderline unusable for desktop browsing these days.
- princevegeta89 3y agoThe speakers on Pro are definitely audiophile range. To me the screen quality alone was enough to drive me away from Air.
- toomuchtodo 3y agoWhat's the Pro sweet spot currently for RAM/disk/screen? Edit: nvm, looks like the Air supports two external displays but the Pro only supports one.
- justusthane 3y ago- MacBook Pro with M3 chip = one external display - MacBook Pro with M3 Pro chip = two external displays - MacBook Pro with M3 Max chip = four external displays Given that I would personally go for the M3 Pro with 18GB memory, but it depends on your needs of course.
- toomuchtodo 3y agoThis is helpful, thank you!
- toomuchtodo 3y agohttps://9to5mac.com/2024/03/04/14-inch-m3-macbook-pro-multi-display-support/ https://9to5mac.com/2024/03/04/14-inch-m3-macbook-pro-multi-...
- iddan 3y agoSince October, I've replaced my M-series 14" Macbook Pro for a M-series Macbook Air and I'm pretty glad with it. I can do almost anything I could have done with my Pro (Figma, coding, Docker) with so much less weight on my shoulders (commuting to work, working in cafes, etc).
- kirso 3y agoDo you ever push it to the limits? Think without sustained workloads - PRO seems like a waste of money.
- skadamat 3y agoI'm still very bummed with Apple's strategy in using # of supported external displays as a feature to gate laptops. I had to return a decently spec-ced M3 Macbook PRO 14" because it only supported 1 display (base M3) and pay more for M3 pro even though I don't need the extra horsepower. And now the base M3 Air's support 2 displays? This is wild
- znpy 3y agothat's (quite literally) the price you pay in order to stay in the apple ecosystem. More-than-one-display is pretty much the standard on regular (non-apple) computers: you can drive as much as your system can sustain.
- ajross 3y agoIt's on-chip silicon, not a marketing feature. This kind of product design is just really hard. Mask sets get well into the billions of dollars, you can't just assemble a list of features as if they're all free. You need to decide upfront, often years in advance, what feature you think people will want to buy for the market you think you'll find yourself in. There are no easy answers. But just in general, Intel has always prioritized lots of I/O flexibility on its chips. If you look at the datasheets there have always been dozens and dozens of units on every SKU that are never plumbed out to ports on the device. Three or four display outputs, six or eight USB controllers, stuff like that. Apple is the opposite: they won't include something if they aren't absolutely sure they need it. So after the shift from x86 to Apple silicon, laptop users are feeling a squeeze on I/O that used to seem "free".
- drooopy 3y agoSo, the cheapest configuration with 16 GB of RAM (and still with a measly 256GB of SSD) begins at €1479 (previously incorrectly stated as €1700) in the EU with VAT and that's with the older M2 chip. As for the external display thing, you basically have to "sacrifice" the laptop's screen and built in keyboard and trackpad in order to use a 2nd display. Jesus wept. CORRECTION: The price for 16/256 is at €1479.
- Trollmann 3y agoWhere in the EU? In Germany they ask for 1429€ for the configuration you specified.
- kjkjadksj 3y agoYou can get open box macs from some retailers a few months after the sku releases for huge savings sometimes almost 20%. I got a mbp for like over $400 off iirc from best buy with three cycles on the battery. At that price it didn’t even make sense to go with apple refurbished.
- swyx 3y agomy biggest regret of 2023 is buying the MBA with M2 chip. it is so underpowered compared to the MBP - no right hand ports, lower memory, no support for 2 monitors - that it was not worth the few hundred dollars saved and lighter weight which was something i thought I valued. so just a word of advice to fellow devs - go for the MBP. if you're on here you need it.
- darknavi 3y agoI have a 14in MBP M2 and it only has two USB C ports on the left-hand side. Apple's fractured line up is confusing at best.
- kjkjadksj 3y agoThey still sell a macbook pro lite with a single fan unfortunately. You need to throw in for the higher core count chip to get the actual macbook pro.
- kjkjadksj 3y agoThe battery life is crazy on the m3s, supposedly better than m2 due to more e cores. I use mine all day and can get away with charging it overnight.
- flippy_flops 3y agoIs M3 the same single core speed on all platforms (e.g. air vs pro vs mini, etc)? In other words, would m3 mbpro single core benchmarks be basically the same as this new air?
- AndroTux 3y agoYes, basically. If you’re running long-term heavy load, the lack of fans in the Air will of course throttle it. But for short bursts they will perform the same.
- kjkjadksj 3y agoThe thermal situation is sort of interesting. The lowest spec macbook pro has 1 fan. The middle spec and the max have the same 2 fan setup though. This would imply the coolest running one is probably the 11 core. You could probably pin those p cores all day.
- hit8run 3y agoOnly caveat is the 60hz display imho.
- luka-birsa 3y agoIs anyone else annoyed that Apple are extra shifty with performance comparisons these days, comparing to M1 and not to M2 MB Airs? I opted for a M2 Air in October seeing small differences in M2 pro vs M3 pro, so I guess I was right - the difference must be so small that Apple can't stomach the difference. I'd rant about how they try to market new models with more and more stupid marketing when they don't have anything to show, but I guess this only means I don't need to upgrade for a while since they are all out of proper innovation... Imagine being a fanboy for Apple this days. Nothing to look for. They are so blatant in extracting value and not bringing anything new to the table, probably best compared to Nokia in it's heyday.
- rayiner 3y agoThe 24GB memory limit is pathetic in 2024.
- plandis 3y agoWhat are you doing on a MBA that utilizes all 24GB? I’m legit curious because I feel like applications that need a ton of ram probably also want better perf than the MBA can provide anyways or come in a better form factor than a laptop.
- tptacek 3y agoI have a 64G '21 M1M and it feels pretty silly. I wouldn't trade the memory back for money, but I would trade half of it for weight or for battery life.
- kstrauser 3y agoI have 64GB in my Studio. I've never noticed the difference between it and my 24GB MBA. I'm not saying there's not a difference. Just saying, even with running a bunch of stuff in Docker plus BBEdit plus a gazillion browser and terminal tabs, I've personally never noticed the MBA being slower than the Studio.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- 999900000999 3y agoI'm still very happy with my M1 Air. But I also rarely do much on it aside from web browse and write small Flutter and Golang apps. I'm disappointed with the low ram and storage specs, but you also get a laptop that'll last until the unreplaceable battery dies.
- sciencesama 3y agoDoes this have 120hz promotion yet ??
- datadrivenangel 3y agoHow is Apple able to use the MagSafe connector in the EU?
- abhorrence 3y agoPresumably because the computers can also charge via their USB-C ports.
- cialowicz 3y agoI’ll venture a guess and assume it’s because they can also charge via USB C, or maybe the EU law only applies to phones and tablets.
- bertil 3y agoI think the rule only applies to device of a specific size (but that size might be laptop). Either way, Apple offers USB C as an option. You can have proprietary features (like MagSafe for all other Apple devices), but you must offer USB C to sell in the EU.
- deergomoo 3y agoThey also charge via any of the USB-C ports.
- jdc0589 3y ago> all in its strikingly thin and light how about we make them thicker, so there's enough room to keep the screen from eventually touching the keys when closed and permanently marring it after a few years. I guess, its only been happening since 2007, probably not enough time to come up with a solution. /rant
- lavela 3y agoI'm always a bit irritated when editors still use inch measurements exclusively, when it's only used in 3 countries officially still. Not talking about screen sizes obviously, but I really don't have an intuition for what 'less than half an inch' thickness is and I'm sure there are a _lot_ of people who use English as their interface language outside of the US.
- FirmwareBurner 3y agoIt's the US Apple website, what do you expect? Of course the measurements will be in football fields and eagles/freedom units. Go to other local websites and the specs will be in the local units (most likely metric), but even in Europe, display sizes or car wheels are almost always denominated in inches.
- lavela 3y agoIf it is the US website I'm just asking where the international english website is I guess. Choosing UK or South Africa doesn't make the inch go away. This is totally fine for companies targeting US domestic markets I guess but I suspect Apple sees itself as an international company and they should have the budget for proper internationalization. Maybe they just don't care for people to know how thin the Air is, but the number of search results for 'thin' on the page let's me think otherwise.
- karaterobot 3y agoTo be fair to the editors, the inch measurement is just coming from Apple, that's how they refer to it. If the editors converted the model name into centimeters they'd be using a different name than Apple, and probably losing some search traffic as well. But I feel your pain: it's not even a great description, because the screen isn't 13 inches, it's 13.6 or something like that.
- lavela 3y agoI can deal with the screen sizes, as they are used everywhere ( it's similar to e.g. 3.5mm jack I guess) and you know what's meant by that, but stating the thickness in inches got me.
- deldelaney 3y ago[dead]
- regus 3y agoHere is a question for all you Mac experts: I purchased an M1 Mac Mini and I regret it, I should have gotten a laptop because I often find myself wanting to use my computer outside of my office. I am not doing anything crazy with this thing, just photo editing and light coding. Is there any reason why I should choose a Pro over an Air at this point?
- xutopia 3y agoHonestly if you don't see the point with your use case go for the cheaper option.
- damuellen 3y agoAm I the only one who is bothered by the cut-out for the webcam and the rounded corners of the screen? Fortunately, laptops are just toys for me, and I save a lot of money by not buying one from Apple anymore.
- kypro 3y agoI love the rounded corners honestly. The screen feels more natural with it. The camera notch however bothers me daily. The most annoying bit about it is that the notch is so large that the mouse cursor can get lost in the dead zone behind it. It's awful design... It would had been forgivable if it was just a small circular camera cutout, but I'm guessing they didn't do that purely because they wanted to be different. Plus to go with a circular camera cutout on their Macbooks would suggest that it's not a great design choice on the iPhone either. It's the only thing I genuinely hate about my M3 Macbook. Almost everything else is great.
- nodesocket 3y agoI currently have a 16" M1 Max and thinking about picking up a 15" M3 Air. My understanding is the M3 is faster in single core performance but the M1 Max is faster in multi-core because of obviously more cores. Am I really going to see a performance difference switching from M1 Max to M3 or should I splurge and go for M3 Pro or M3 Max?
- jshier 3y agoDepends on what you do. Best bet is to find benchmarks from the various M3 reviews and see if any are similar to your workflow. For Geekbench 6, the M1 Max is about 2400/12700 while the M3 is about 3100/12000, so for CPU constrained tasks they be almost the same, with the Air perhaps throttling a bit if you run at full power for longer periods of time. But an M3 Max gets you a multicore score of 19600, which could be a nice improvement if you do a lot of parallel work.
- seam_carver 3y agoM3 MBP will also get 2 display support when the lid is closed in a macOS update. https://9to5mac.com/2024/03/04/14-inch-m3-macbook-pro-multi-display-support/ https://9to5mac.com/2024/03/04/14-inch-m3-macbook-pro-multi-...
- zuhsetaqi 3y agoSource?
- dataworm 3y agohttps://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/m3-macbook-pro-multi-display-support/ https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/m3-macbook-pro-multi-di...
- seam_carver 3y agoAdded
- dataworm 3y agoThe M2 MacBooks should also get that because the hardware supports it. The M2 Mac mini allows to connect 2 displays over USB-C if you don't use the HDMI port.
- kayodelycaon 3y agoThe M1 mini could connect 2 displays as well. I'm pretty sure one of the two display controllers in the laptops is hardwired to the internal screen.
- dataworm 3y agoIt could but only if you connected one of them to the HDMI port. The M2 allows to connect both over USB-C. One of the M1 display controllers is hardwired to a DP output which goes to the screen on laptops and iMacs and to a DP->HDMI converter on the Mac mini. The controller isn't hardwired anymore since the M2, only the output is.
- numbers 3y agoI was recently buying a Dell laptop for my sister and it boggles my mind how most other companies (maybe Framework is an except) still have dozens or even 100s of SKUs for consumer laptops. I didn't enjoy the process of looking through dozens of various lines that Dell has and then other companies like Lenovo and HP earlier in the process, just to find a "mid-range usable computer with a decent screen". If you didn't know anything about laptops and wanted to buy your first one, it would be a nightmare to figure out what all those seemingly random numbers mean on most non-Apple laptops. Apple continues to simplify the laptop naming scheme, we're at a point where it's simply: Air OR Pro Small screen OR big screen All other details can be configured in the buying flow but there's not much to think about if you just want a simple laptop.
- skadamat 3y agoDefinitely agree with the simplicity of purchasing an Apple computer compared to other laptop manufacturers. Headphone brands and monitor makers also suffer from this same fate :/
- rchaud 3y agoNot that simple when there are multiple generations of each on sale, with wildly different prices should you change the storage or RAM toggle. The MacBook Air used to have a multiple USB-A ports plus video, now it 2 ports that have to handle everything. So now the dongle/no dongle question has to become considered as well.
- skadamat 3y agoAgreed that even Apple products have gotten confusing. But still 1-2 orders of magnitude less I feel than other laptops?
- jpalomaki 3y agoI think the lineup and config options on Apple laptops and tablets are carefully planned to make you spend more than you intially thought. You start with the idea of cheap model, then start going the ladders up.
- sircastor 3y agoI remain a little disappointed they didn't hold onto the wedge form-factor. The MacBook Air in the most recently form-factor is very thin, very light, but not to me what the definitive aspect of the MBA is, and why it's not a MacBook Pro. Being mildly thinner and supporting only one monitor feels like an intentional design handicap because... well we have to.
- therealmarv 3y agoThis Laptop has two USB-C/Thunderbolt ports. So how do I connect two external monitors + e.g. a USB Hub to this laptop WITHOUT buying an expensive Thunderbolt Dock??? Are there adapters available? Is it only this one with HDMI from Apple? https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MUF82AM/A/usb-c-digital-av-multiport-adapter https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MUF82AM/A/usb-c-digital-a... are there others with USB-A with Displayport or USB-C Display connection?
- freetime2 3y agoA lot of USB-C monitors offer built-in usb hub support. So you would plug the monitors into the laptop, and the peripherals into the monitors.
- therealmarv 3y agomy two 32" USB-C (displayport over USB-C) monitors do not have that
- tiffanyh 3y agoPrice Ladder Apple has some of the most amazing Price Laddering I've ever seen. Folks complain about only 1 external monitor support, etc. This is all part of Apple's price laddering strategy. MKBHD does a good job describing it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeDPwpIFs-I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeDPwpIFs-I Here it's visualized (for iPad) https://photos5.appleinsider.com/gallery/50966-100692-nov-2022-ipad-price-range-overall-xl.jpg https://photos5.appleinsider.com/gallery/50966-100692-nov-20...
- xyst 3y agoI can appreciate the aesthetics of the “air” line but have been burned in the past due to poor heat dissipation. Hope apple has improved over the number of years, especially with “apple silicon”
- pbnjeh 3y agoWill these, like previous models, have varying SSD performance depending upon how many chips are populated resulting in varying parallelization of SSD operations? If so, knowing those configurations would be useful. I have a friend I recently told to wait for the M3 models (and for reviews of same and for the initial bugs, etc. shakeout to subside). I'm also wondering about the reported/speculated internal bus width and bandwidth differences between the M2 and M3. Supposedly, the M3 is/would be a bit narrower, hopefully making up the resulting impact upon performance through other improvements.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- markstos 3y agoI just had a MacBook Air M1 die suddenly, perhaps because the case has no heat venting. All data was lost because the storage is not removable. Replaced it with a Framework which will more repairable and has removable storage. Basics matter.
- jrockway 3y ago> All data was lost because the storage is not removable. I have removable disks in my workstation but that has never saved me from data loss. The most common cause of data loss is an errant "rm -rf" or "git checkout" or whatever. The second most common cause is the storage media failing (bad sectors, flash wear, etc.). On portable devices, I imagine one of the most common causes of data loss is losing the device itself. The only way to prevent these classes of data loss is with backups. "One is none."
- fkkffdddd 3y agoI’d still do a backup, yes, even if storage is removable.
- markstos 3y agoNo need to choose. Framework drives are removable and backupable. Apple choose to make a nonrepairable, non-upgradable product.
- stilldavid 3y ago... but it is back-uppable.
- danlugo92 3y ago> Apple choose to make a nonrepairable, non-upgradable product. They can get away with it because other manufacturers are lazy.
- captainbland 3y agoI am wondering at this point if Apple is going to make it a full decade without upgrading the base memory capacity.
- frogpelt 3y agoHilariously, if you compare the new model to BOTH the 2017 Intel model and the 2020 Intel model the performance comparison is the same.
- jcadam 3y agoFinding a laptop that runs Linux natively and acceptably is always a challenge. My Dell XPS 9315 touts linux support, but only with an older version of Ubuntu using custom drivers (as I discovered after purchasing it). So I've got manjaro running that took quite a bit of coaxing - though the built-in webcam has never, and probably will never work with any linux other than Ubuntu 20.04, and the APM has always been extremely wonky (also, much BIOS and config tweaking to get it to work acceptably). In any case, if these ARM-based macbook pros can run linux native with minimal fuss, I'd buy one -- but AFAIK, they're not there yet.
- coolspot 3y agoNext time look into Lenovo. I have a Legion 5 Pro with Ryzen and RTX 3070. Everything just works running Linux.
- tasuki 3y agoI have a ~2018 Dell XPS that runs Ubuntu and Debian fine. I still prefer the ~2017 ThinkPad X1 Carbon, despite the much slower CPU, half the memory, worse screen, and the coating peeling off. Not sure why I prefer it, perhaps some combination of it being lighter, quieter, and the screen opening 180°
- ActorNightly 3y ago>Finding a laptop that runs Linux natively and acceptably is always a challenge. Its pretty easy to do a compatibility check on forums before purchasing. My IdeaPad Gaming works flawlessly with Manjaro, even supports the charging settings and performance modes.
- jcadam 3y agoYea, yea, I know. The one time I just assume it'll be fine, because Dell sold a developer edition of the 9315 with ubuntu pre-installed. Then I receive it and find the linux support is a total kludge with custom drivers and disabling most of the power management features in the BIOS.
- jhatemyjob 3y ago
- lynguist 3y agoIt’s good but they should’ve upped the memory from 24G to 32G. In my opinion a new Macbook Air only makes sense when you can get more memory. And I still think it’s the best laptop.
- CharlesW 3y agoEven the Pro M3 tops out at 24GB of RAM. On the bright side, you can get a Pro M3 MAX with 36GB of RAM for not much more than a loaded Air.
- lynguist 3y agoBut it’s chunky! I love the Air for its lack of chunk and lack of fans! For me it’s a precision machine that’s pure joy to use; I just want more RAM.
- CharlesW 3y agoI get it! My MacBook Air M1 is honestly perfect. I'm considering a Studio upgrade only because I find myself working on ridiculously large (24K x 30K) 16 bits-per-channel image files lately.
- gok 3y agoM3 Pro gets to 36GB, the M3 Max can do 128GB
- CharlesW 3y agoOh, interesting! TIL the MP3 Pro is limited to 36GB unless you upgrade to the 30-core GPU.
- commandersaki 3y agoYep. I work on a C++ project that requires up to 32GB of memory to compile. If I could do that on the air, that'd be amazing. I don't think I'd ever want to get the Pro though, it's too bulky for my liking.
- mrcwinn 3y agoA great laptop but also a bit of a heartbreaker for me. The quality of the 16" MacBook Pro (Liquid Retina XDR?) is way ahead of the MacBook Air... which is a shame, because my dream form factor is the 15" MacBook Air. The 16" is so bulky and heavy. (On the other hand, most of the time I hook my 16 up to Apple's Studio Display, which is definitely not ProMotion or anything exceptional!)
- owenversteeg 3y agoFun fact, the M3 Air is exactly the weight of one m3 air at room temperature; at 15C, one m3 of air at 1ATM is 1.23kg, which is the exact same weight as the M3 Air.
- owenversteeg 3y agoAnd for contrast, the M2 Air (1.24kg) was a tiny fraction of the weight of air on one m2 (10332kg) at 1atm. In other words, the relative weight of the latest MacBook Air has increased by a factor of ten thousand! I know Jony Ive was keeping the products lightweight, but I didn’t realize it would get this bad without him…
- jedberg 3y agoOk this is really a fun fact! That had to be intentional right? I wonder if they added something to it just to make this true. If it wasn't intentional they should incorporate it into their marketing -- "exactly the same weight as air!"
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- nonoesp 3y agoI've been streaming and recording locally with OBS in 2K (1440p) with an M3 Max MacBook Pro and it works like a charm—with a Sony ZV-E10 being capture by Elgato HD60X. I can even develop and run Apple MLX code while I'm streaming. (I lose a few frames when generating images with Stable Diffusion or load big LLMs like Gemma 7B.) My MacBook Pro M1 wasn't there for streaming and recording at the same time. But even an M1 Max could do the job as well.
- koalaman 3y agoThe hardware is so great but mac os is so far from my liking. It's such a shame that the OS options are so limited on these machines. (I'm aware of asahi)
- luxuryballs 3y agoStill no internal fan though?
- ACV001 3y agoThey are good but still blurry on most external monitors.
- devilsAdv0cate 3y ago[dead]
- greenavocado 3y agoI strongly recommend using KDE for your laptop and desktop
- dekhn 3y agoMy kids both needed computers and when the MacBook Air M1 came out I bought a couple for $1200 each (I normally spend $2000 on a new laptop). I wanted decent performance, compatibility, and battery life, and ideally something that would survive a typical teenager's treatment. I'm not a mac person- I would be happier with a Windows or Linux PC or laptop. It looks like they have had the laptops for 3.5 years now, and I've never heard a single complaint about performance or compatibility. One reports the battery life has dropped tremendously. But frankly, these things are basically reliable appliances. I was expecting both to be completely broken by now and have been very pleased.
- resters 3y agoThese will push the price of < $500 windows laptops closer to $100 and the price of $1000 windows laptops to $300. No comparison.
- karim79 3y agoI own a fully maxed-out MacBook Air M2. I suppose, there's no point in upgrading, from the point of view of a developer? I'm not quite sure why the comparisons on the marketing page are against the M1 Air. For a desktop (which does the Docker things) I use a maxed out Mac Mini M2 Pro. Still, it's painful to see an upgraded Air which I do not own, but also a little bit warming that they don't seem to pushing a comparison with the M2 equivalent. Crazy times.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- swat535 3y agoGoing on a tangent here but it's interesting seeing the love for Apple in this thread right vs the (well deserved) hate in the thread about Apple being fined for 1B in EU [0] Apple has a serious anti consumer practices and we should not be supporting this company. The EU fine is just a start and hopefully there is a serious crack down to force them to open their hardware and software. Cheers to EU and its wonderful policies, let's hope the rest of the world follows through! In any case, encouraging their behavior by constantly purchasing their services and computers should be discouraged. Their hardware maybe good but we should cease to support this company until their attitude changes. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39589483 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39589483
- gtvwill 3y agoMore unrepairable e-waste in the making. Gross.
- markive 3y ago2 screens, but with the lid shut!? So you need a separate mouse and keyboard to use 2 screens. That's weird..
- devinprater 3y agoYou know, I really wish I could add a few things to the macBook. A number pad for example, since VoiceOver can use them for quick and simple navigation and item selection. I mean, I also wish VoiceOver was even half as good as NVDA, a free and open source Windows screen reader, but that's for another day. Also, make the modifier keys symmetrical. Add a control key to the right side of the keyboard! Yeah, the keyboard is a big deal for blind people like me. I do know a few blind people that use Macs sometimes, but I don't know if they just hook up an external keyboard as much as possible like I do, or just use the built in one without a nampad and such.
- commandersaki 3y agoI totally understand where you're coming from. I was legally blind for 15 years. Apple has been there for me with their screen zoom since Powerbook G4 12" on OSX 10.3. I've since had surgery on my eyes, and I still find myself relying heavily on the screen zoom. It's probably my all time favourite feature of OSX/MacOS. Thankfully I haven't had a need for VoiceOver or NVDA, so I wouldn't know how to compare those. But I think it's great that Apple actually puts in internal effort on accessibility unlike Microsoft/Linux.
- paines 3y ago>Working in Excel spreadsheets is up to 35 percent faster than the 13-inch model with the M1 chip, and up to 3x faster for customers who haven’t upgraded to a Mac with Apple silicon. Is this really a benchmark someone would diffrenatiate buying options?
- moi2388 3y agoM1 Max 64Gb here. It’s like 2-3 year olds now? It’s still miles ahead of any other laptop I’ve tried since. Everything just loads instantly. Like literally instantly, and I can easily work a whole workday on it with some battery to spare.