52 ms·

Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

• bni 3y ago
  My sole interest for motherboards in a stationary computer are for Windows gaming. Flight sticks, wheels, button boxes basically everything that is wired use USB-A
• faluzure 3y ago
  I have two usb-c ports on my desktop. I’ve never used them. Almost everything that has a usb-c connection can easily be connected with a c to a connector. My laptop, on the other end, everything I use is usb-c, and everything that’s not is usb-c though a multi-port adapter.
• aslilac 3y ago
  calling USB A “legacy” and a “relic” is so misplaced. we all still own USB A devices. I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug. it’s possible, but not easy. the thing is, we could just have both! this isn’t some winner/loser scenario. the real question should be why these computers with enough bandwidth for 11+ connectors don’t at least split the difference with 6/5 of each. gives device manufacturers enough confidence that customers will be able to plug in the thing they bought, and gives consumers the ability to plug in anything and everything they need. then in 5 years when things have advanced we can start talking about entirely consolidating on USB C.
  • fnordpiglet 3y ago
    Almost every device I’ve bought in 2023 is usb-c now, even low end stuff, and keyboards and mice. By 2025 I’d expect it’ll be rare and unusual to see a micro port on any new device. USB A is definitely legacy.
    • layer8 3y ago
      PCs still come with half a dozen or more USB-A ports and only a single USB-C port (if you're lucky). Dongles, flash drives, webcams and the like are still prominently USB-A. Logitech's lineup is still mostly USB-A. I'm not sure that there will even be a full transition to USB-C, but if so, it will take quite a while.
      • dylan604 3y ago
        I just bought a new device that came with a USB-A to USB-B cable!!!! the horror!! Makes sense, as it pretty much functions like a printer, only subtractive instead of additive process. Then it has Bluetooth instead of WiFi for wireless!?!?
      • microtonal 3y ago
        I bought a new machine last week (Intel NUC 13 Extreme). It has three Type-C ports of which two are Thundebolt. We are slowly getting somewhere. Meanwhile my phones, displays, keyboards, all use Type-C connectors. Though some came with a USB-C to A converter. We are slowly getting there.
        • cesarb 3y ago
          Counterpoint: I also bought a new machine, a couple of weeks ago (Optiplex 7010 Micro). It has six USB A ports, four of them USB 3 and two of them USB 2 only, with the option to add a single USB-C port (or instead an extra DP or HDMI or even VGA or serial port); if you add that option, that USB-C port (which has DP alt mode) can be used to power the computer (instead of using the barrel plug), which is nice. Very high end devices might have more than a single USB-C port (which is probably your case, given the "extreme" in the name), and these ports might even be Thunderbolt or USB4, but that's still rare. In my opinion, we are still in the USB-C equivalent of the "only two USB 2 ports, if you want more get a PCI add-on card" phase we had in the serial/parallel/PS2 to USB migration back in the day.
      • fnordpiglet 3y ago
        PC motherboards are often like a study in the history of PC motherboards with vestigial functionality that hasn’t been in widespread use in decades. That’s a fairly poor indicator, and I think it largely happens to buffer the feature sheet, take advantage of cheap pricing on components over time, and copy and paste functionality in their design software. It’s over. The only place for a USB-A is on an aftermarket USB hub. That’s ok. It was nice while it lasted, but it’s time to move on.
    • pynappo 3y ago
      i think the GP was talking about wired peripherals that plug into usb-a ports on the computer side, not wireless mice/keyboards which use usb-c to charge my current wireless mouse/wired keyboard have usb-c on the peripheral end but I still use usb-a to connect them to the computer
      • Gigachad 3y ago
        These days it's common for the wire to not be fixed in. So it's just a usb-c port on the keyboard and you can use whatever cable you want.
      • davegirdy2 3y ago
        I'm still confused with the term GP. Shouldn't it be OP?
        • zargon 3y ago
          The OP would be the geenspun.com post or cute_boi, depending on context. The grandparent, in this case, is aslilac.
        • abdullahkhalids 3y ago
          GP means grandparent. It refers to the comment exactly two up. Ex. From my comment, GP is the comment by pynappo, starting with "i think the GP was talking... " Similarly, you can have GGP for great-grand parent, etc. OP refers either to the starter of the post or the top level comment.
        • numpad0 3y ago
          It's always GP in this subreddit.
    • aslilac 3y ago
      going off of you saying “micro port” I think you’re talking about USB B.
      • cassianoleal 3y ago
        More likely they mean micro-USB. USB-B is anything but micro.
        • chungy 3y ago
          Micro-USB is a variant of the USB-B connector. The whole point of A and B was that A ports were used on the "host" system, and B were used on the peripheral. If you remember USB On-the-Go, that was an attempt to reverse the trend and allow a USB-B device (including micro ports) to act as a host. USB-C erased that distinction in favor of a full duplex network connection between two hosts.
          • lxgr 3y ago
            USB-OTG ports are technically mini-AB and micro-AB ports that can fit both A and B plugs. And USB-C is neither full-duplex (at least not for USB 2) nor host-to-host; there is a protocol negotiation and some devices can never act as hosts, although some can indeed assume both host and device roles. Even in a “host-to-host connection”, only one side will act as the host.
          • davegirdy2 3y ago
            "some devices can never act as hosts, although some can indeed assume both host and device roles"
          • Dylan16807 3y ago
            > Micro-USB is a variant of the USB-B connector. In the same sense that A and B are variants of each other, sure. Even though it's called micro-B, the design is closer to A, and micro supports both ends with basically the same plug. I would never refer to it as just "B". "B" means the square plug.
        • 3y ago
  • makeitdouble 3y ago
    > I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug.. I can confirm, it's a journey. It's the same kind of journey than finding a hair trimmer that charges on USB C. I see it more as makers being complacent and not giving a fuck though. There's no technical reasons for those to be USB A, and the USB C ones work great. So yes USB A will be there for a while, and more often than not it's a symbolic middle finger to the buyer, a signal that a product should probably be avoided.
    • clnq 3y ago
      > USB A will be there for a while, and more often than not it's a symbolic middle finger to the buyer, a signal that a product should probably be avoided. You have exceptionally strong opinions about USB A and C.
      • makeitdouble 3y ago
        Micro USB is the real bane of it, but the time I spent to find USB-C versions of so many devices, including mices, made the issue a lot more personal I think. I kinda hate that we're stuck in dongle town for so long now. And going wireless brings in the charging issues. Computer makers are also to blame, but I think that ship has sailed.
    • dec0dedab0de 3y ago
      So yes USB A will be there for a while, and more often than not it's a symbolic middle finger to the buyer, a signal that a product should probably be avoided. maybe it’s the opposite, it’s a warm hug reassuring you that they’re not going to change things just because some of the cool kids are.
    • cesarb 3y ago
      > There's no technical reasons for those to be USB A, and the USB C ones work great. There's a good technical reason for keyboards and mice to still be USB A: adapters from USB A socket to USB C plug are allowed by the standard, but adapters from USB C socket to USB A plug are forbidden (because they would, together with a common USB C cable, allow creating the forbidden USB A to USB A cable). This means that USB A keyboards and mice can be used in both USB A ports and (with a simple passive adapter) USB C ports, while USB C keyboards and mice could be used only on USB C ports. Therefore, until having enough free USB C ports in computers is common enough, using USB A ports (with an optional adapter to USB C on the box) on the keyboard or mouse makes sense. This is similar to how, during the transition from serial and PS/2 mice to USB mice, it was common for them to come with a adapter which allowed them to be used either on a USB port or (with the adapter) on a PS/2 port.
  • upon_drumhead 3y ago
    http://codekeyboards.com http://codekeyboards.com are currently USB C as are https://www.wasdkeyboards.com https://www.wasdkeyboards.com
    • rgoulter 3y ago
      More generally, I'd think many/most mechanical keyboards are USB C. But I'd think that the budget, off-the-shelf keyboards would be USB A.
    • deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    • rootusrootus 3y ago
      That is fairly meaningless, though. My six year old CODE keyboard could be USB-C today if I wanted, it uses a detachable USB cable. They wouldn't even need to make any changes to the keyboard other than including a different cable.
    • crote 3y ago
      Note that these are keyboards and not mouses, and they have USB-C sockets rather than permanently attached cables with USB-C plugs. They are also very premium products. When it comes to the entire ecosystem, a $5 bargain-bin noname OEM keyboard with permanently-attached cable is more representative - and those definitely don't come with USB-C yet. That would probably add a few cents to their BOM, so it simply isn't worth it yet.
      • hughesjj 3y ago
        To be fair I'd much rather us converge to 'sockets on both ends' now that the plug is the same anyway Throwing away a perfectly good device because the cable is kaputz exacerbates our e-waste problem
      • upon_drumhead 3y ago
        I was replying to this specifically > I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug. it’s possible, but not easy. where they do specially call out keyboards
  • korginator 3y ago
    USB-C is simply more convenient to use, and you get it right 100% of the time, instead of your orientation being wrong 50% of the time with USB-A.
    • jacquesm 3y ago
      If you get it wrong 50% of the time let me substantially reduce that for you: logo goes 'up' for whatever the normal orientation of your device is. That should clear up 99% of the cases.
      • gweinberg 3y ago
        More like 55%. The usb ports on the bac of my machine are sideways, and the one on the top is backwards-ass wrong from what I would expect.
        • jacquesm 3y ago
          Eww that's weird, ok in your case you are out of luck. That's pretty strange though, I have a ton of USB-A devices here and they are all in line with the way I outlined. So that's a bit of a surprise but it may well be an exception. As for the ones that are sideways: the 'bottom' of the case is the bottom of the motherboard, so if you think of it that way it might still work for all but the top side ones.
        • koolba 3y ago
          We live in a right handed universe so even sideways has a correct answer.
        • 9991 3y ago
          The motherboard has an "up" direction if you lay it out flat.
      • Zancarius 3y ago
        I had a Cooler Master case where the IO stack at the top of the case had the opposite orientation (logo down). Threw me off forever. I'm at a point in my life where I've just given up and figure that I'm only going to get it right 1/3rd of the time anyway: Nope, turn; nope, turn; yup.
  • abhinavk 3y ago
    Weirdly, the port on a cheap mechanical keyboard I have is USB-C but the cable they packaged is USB-C -> USB-A instead. They likely didn't package C->C because of the chicken and egg problem. Not everyone has enough Type-C ports.
    • tazard 3y ago
      Same. Keyboard and mouse
    • Retr0id 3y ago
      Type-C hubs are annoyingly expensive, because they all assume you want all the USB 3.x speed and/or power delivery bells and whistles - but for connecting simple peripherals none of that is necessary. I built my own based on a USB 2.0 hub IC, but I never got around to publishing the design files. I should get on that! Even building a single prototype unit cost me about the same as a single off-the-shelf type-C hub, but of course, building subsequent units would be substantially cheaper.
      • jorvi 3y ago
        > Type-C hubs are annoyingly expensive, because they all assume you want all the USB 3.x speed and/or power delivery bells and whistles - but for connecting simple peripherals none of that is necessary. Meanwhile the most frequent complaint I read about USB-C is trickster/confusing cables or hubs because they don’t support everything
        • antifa 3y ago
          I have more trouble using Amazon's useless filters or finding products that even try to be more specific than just "USB-C".
        • Retr0id 3y ago
          My theory is that's why it's so hard to buy a "featureless" hub - consumers will demand refunds if feature X is not present.
      • 3y ago
  • gweinberg 3y ago
    Maybe it's a chicken and egg thing, but why do we still have usb-a keyboards and mice and thumb drives? wouldn't it make more sense for them all to be usb-c?
    • cesarb 3y ago
      Having them be USB C would mean they could only be used on USB C ports (adapters from USB C socket to USB A plug are forbidden by the USB standard, because they would allow creating the forbidden USB A to USB A cable), while having them be USB A allows them to be used on both USB A ports and (with a simple passive adapter) USB C ports.
      • lxgr 3y ago
        That’s a very good point. It doesn’t stop some manufacturers from still shipping the “forbidden” adapter type for just that use case, though. I prefer USB-A for FIDO authenticators for that reason (and because the plug is more robust for USB-A and basically indestructible; C plugs can and do get bent on a keychain).
        • TylerE 3y ago
          I have yet to see a bent usb c (not saying it couldn’t happen, but… It’s have seen multiple crushed USB A connectors.
          • TheKitchenSinc 3y ago
            As some anecdata, I work in facilities with hundreds of non-tech folks using USB-C Yubikeys and we see multiple bent connectors daily. Granted, our userbase isn’t known for treating electronics kindly…
          • lxgr 3y ago
            Ah, I should have been more precise: The (technically out of spec) "half-A" plug used by e.g. Yubikeys and some low-profile USB drives seems near indestructible to me. Regular A plugs can definitely be crushed.
  • dangus 3y ago
    On the other hand, the introduction of USB-C will reach its 10 year anniversary in just a couple of years. If this were 2008 you would definitely call a parallel port, a 56k modem, or a floppy drive a relic even though you probably used one in 1998.
    • anonymouskimmer 3y ago
      My 1996 $2000 Packard Bell was effectively unusable by 2003 or so. My 2003 or so upgraded machine couldn't play Youtube videos by 2012. My early 2013 $600 Lenovo laptop is still going fine today (though it helps that I don't game anymore).
    • dehrmann 3y ago
      That's not a fair comparison considering how compatible USB-C is with USB 3.0 A/B.
      • dangus 3y ago
        Compatibility wasn’t what motivated people to switch away from the parallel port, 56k modem, nor the floppy disk. Consider this exercise: The Nintendo Switch is the third best-selling console of all time. Walk me through how you would design it if the only port was USB-A.
        • anonymouskimmer 3y ago
          Back in 1998 there were 4 or 5 main port types. And today there are still 4 or 5 main port types (with bluetooth as well). Compatibility was indeed the reason to switch to USB in the first place, as the universal serial bus made plug-and-play real. No reason not to have two USB port types, except device thinness. The only issue the parallel port, 56k modem, and floppy disk share in common is throughput. This isn't a problem with USB-A compared to USB-C (until USB 4.0 becomes mainstream).
          • dangus 3y ago
            You can buy middle American mass market automobiles that have USB-C and do not have USB-A. That’s your bellwether. Most of the USB user base doesn’t care about that nerdy stuff.
  • hhh 3y ago
    I understand your point, but keyboards and mice aren’t the correct target I feel. I haven’t had a non USB-C peripheral in at least 4 years.
  • smohare 3y ago
    Almost all of the dozen keyboards I’ve bought on the last few years are USB-C.
  • sh-run 3y ago
    My mouse and keyboard are both usb-c and I wasn't specifically looking for usb-c when I ordered either of them. Logitech MX Master 3 and Keychron Q1. They are both relatively high end devices, but I don't think it's hard to find usb-c devices. That said I do own lots of usb-a devices and will continue to own them for the foreseeable future. I would not purchase a laptop that was usb-c only today.
    • vladvasiliu 3y ago
      Is your MX Master the "mac" version? The reason I ask is because my 3s came with a USB-A dongle (which I prefer instead of Bluetooth). I've never used its charging cable, so I don't remember whether it was c-c or c-a. It also didn't have a C-A adapter provided, so if you want to use the dongle and only have usb-c ports available, you have to supply your own.
      • sh-run 3y ago
        That's a good point, thanks for keeping me honest! Mine is not the Mac version. USB-C to charge it, but dongle is A now that you mention it. It stays plugged into the back of my monitor.
    • throw555chip 3y ago
      This keyboard is brand new, Type A. I don't recall any I was shopping for to be Type C.
  • cwbriscoe 3y ago
    Both my wireless keyboard and mouse are USB-C. I use the C connection for charging them.
    • vladvasiliu 3y ago
      My wireless mouse has a usb-c port for charging only (doesn't have a wired mode). But its dongle is usb-a only and no adapter was provided. It's a rather recent and "high-end" model, too: an mx master 3s.
  • drdaeman 3y ago
    > I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug. it’s possible, but not easy. My Moonlander Mk1 does, it has C-to-C cable with an optional C-to-A adapter on one end. My mouse is type C, but it comes with C-to-A cable. But, obviously, this is chicken-and-egg kind of a problem. No one will build a cheap mass market keyboard with a C-to-C cable for a market (desktop computer users) where type C connectors are nearly non-existent. Extra components (adapters or extra cables) won't be worth it. If the majority of desktops will shift to have majority of their ports of type C, you won't find a type A keyboard anymore. Just like you will have some difficulty finding a PS/2 keyboard today (sure they exist, but aren't exactly widespread anymore).
  • glennpratt 3y ago
    The dirt cheap mechanical keyboard I just bought is USB-C. Which was great, because I didn't need an adapter.
  • arcticbull 3y ago
    USB A was released in 1996, it's older than I suspect the majority of HN readers at this point. An A to C cable is entirely passive, so not exactly a big deal to get a cheap adapter. Not sure I'd rely on keyboards as the standard bearer for 'not a relic' many of them still support PS/2 via passive adapter. That was announced in 1987 and is older than me.
    • picture 3y ago
      Comparing technology to human lifetimes doesn't seem very relevant. Even not accounting for broad categories like "fire" or "language", we're still using individual technology from "long ago" like knives, forks, pen and paper, etc. It's fine to make improvements that keep backwards compatibility (more ergonomic scissor should be able to cut the same paper), but changing connector just because it's old is unwise. The issue of type C is that it's trying to accommodate the entire spectrum of applications from very high bandwidth to very low cost. The range of possibilities has much increased since when Universal Serial Bus was devised, thus many recent solutions feel like they're bad at everything and good at nothing. Perhaps we should allow the specialization of type A as a cheap, reliable, slow, high power, connector, and save type C for only when high throughput is needed?
      • arcticbull 3y ago
        > ... but changing connector just because it's old is unwise Well not because it's old, I'm a huge fan of my 1/8" headphone jack. Type C is intentionally significantly more functional (not to mention the ergonomics of reversibility) but also fully backwards-compatible requiring only passive routing to get you a Type A adapter. > The issue of type C is that it's trying to accommodate the entire spectrum of applications from very high bandwidth to very low cost. That's up to the host. You can support just USB 2.0 with the same signals routed as a vanilla type A connector. There's even super cheap USB-C receptacles that only have the relevant USB 2.0 pins routed out. Like this one [1]. There's really no reason I can think of not to use one. [1] https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/gct/USB4125-GF-A/13547388 https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/gct/USB4125-GF-A/1...
  • MR4D 3y ago
    > I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug. it’s possible, but not easy. So let’s see . . . I have the following in my house, most are at least 2 years old and all are USB-C : MacBook Air MX3 mouse Keychron keyboard iPhone 15 iPad Air Xbox controllers (several) LG 4K monitor Racer Headphones Rode VideoMic Go II Pebble V2 speakers GoPro 11 Chromebook laptop
  • Kuraj 3y ago
    Yet on the opposite side we are still buying USB A peripherals _because_ we do not have USB C ports everywhere.
  • lloeki 3y ago
    > calling USB A “legacy” and a “relic” is so misplaced. we all still own USB A devices. All my client devices have detachable cables. All my host devices are USB-C and have been for a while, except for a) Xbox, b) RPis, c) Car. a) I rarely plug anything into it except a dedicated charging cable or the odd Xbox-specialized devices. b) for which client devices (if any) are never unplugged c) A cable is plugged in and never leaves the port For general-use client devices I either swapped cables for USB-C to uUSB-A or USB-B or had USB-C OOTB for recent devices, increasingly so on both ends. I also recently moved from an iPhone 7 to an iPhone 13 Mini. If it wasn't for Apple refusing to do an iPhone 15 Mini I'd be USB-C all around. > I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB-C plug. Accepted: I've had both for over a year: Keychron K2, Keychron M1. Logitech has a lot of devices with USB-C client side. The irony is that one of them came with a USB-A (host side) to USB-C (client side) cable. The other one was C-C with a "upgrade your computer connector" C-A adapter†. > Then in 5 years Huh. I've been going all in on USB-C since 2018, my strategy being to pick the new standard through and through and backport/polyfill USB-C on the USB-A host side† as needed, NOT the other way around. It's absolutely ridiculous that any off-the-self device today has anything else than a USB-C port client-side (which is where most of the mess actually is with all the mini x micro x hispeed x A x B x HDMI x DP connectors). I'm not throwing away any pre-C device or cable, I upgrade existing cables to be USB-C††. If a cable fails I get a C-whatever replacement. As far as I'm concerned USB-A/B is a relic. Folks cling onto it like they clung to VGA (then, and now HDMI), floppy or optical drives. † Upgrade the host port by leaving this permanently in the host device port: https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Adapter-Female-Converter-Charger/dp/B079K773M7 https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Adapter-Female-Converter-Charg... †† Upgrade the cable by leaving this on the cable: https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Adapter-Thunderbolt-Compatible-MacBook/dp/B0872VN39L https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Adapter-Thunderbolt-Compatible...
  • Max-q 3y ago
    > I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug. Not the author, but all my Logitech keyboards have USB-C.
  • blueflow 3y ago
    > calling USB A “legacy” and a “relic” is so misplaced Calling established technologies "legacy" and "relic" despite them being widely adopted and used should be recognized as the manipulative intellectual dishonesty that it is.
• jauntywundrkind 3y ago
  I'm ready for it. My desktop has a half dozen usb-c adapters stuffed into various ports and hubs. Usb-c cables are the most versatile. You can get all kinds of pigtails and adapters to turn them into anything else. Other connectors don't have that property of universality, because they don't have enough cables.
  • B1FF_PSUVM 3y ago
    USB-C is the bees knees if it works right. Which does not seem to always happen. Plus, "active cable" is close enough to an oxymoron to make me afraid we overreached. (I do like that a small pocket kit with an USB C cable and a couple of adapters seems to cover most needs.)
    • eternityforest 3y ago
      The one thing I don't quite like about active cables is that they didn't use Dallas One-Wire or i2c or uart. Otherwise, it seems to work fine. Hobby level stuff would be a lot simpler if any old microcontroller could talk to a PPS supply, interrogate cables, etc.
      • crote 3y ago
        I2C or uart would require an additional wire, so that'd be cost-prohibitive. But I do agree that something like One-Wire would be better from a hobbyist perspective. Although probably easy to implement in silicon, USB PD is an absolute nightmare to DIY. Pretty much your only option is to get a dedicated PHY like the FUSB302B to do the actual electronic part of PD comms for you.
        • eternityforest 3y ago
          Seems like it must not be that easy to implement, or it would already by in all the chips the way CANBus seems to be integrated in tons of stuff. One-wire stuff is so cheap, and and they have EEPROMS meant for exactly this kind of electronic marking(I believe it's what power adapters did before USB), and it can be done with pure software on an MCU costing pennies.
• chungy 3y ago
  I don't even have any devices that use USB-C. Not a single one. The only USB-C cables I have are for charging phones.
  • bdavbdav 3y ago
    Unless everything is fairly old, that must take some doing. Everything on my desk is USB C. Both keyboards, Logitech mouse, phone, dev kits / boards, both work and personal laptops (PD charging, personal only uses USB C). I’m getting used to the every cable is a double ended USB C life.
  • hotnfresh 3y ago
    The computer accessories shelves at e.g. Target are still dominated by A. Two years after this article.
    • Gigachad 3y ago
      Because wired computer accessories are almost exclusively used by desktop users which all have USB A. Go look at phone charging cables which you might want to plug in to your laptop and see that C-C is more common than C-A now.
      • hotnfresh 3y ago
        TFA is about desktop computers.
  • barrkel 3y ago
    Phone, tablet, laptop, tyre pump, MiFi 5G hotspot, VPN router, portable monitor... most of my devices are USB C, except for my car (2019 - recent rentals are USB C), desktop PC, keyboard and mouse. I think it's great for travel, combined with an Anker 737 or similar battery and Anker 736 100W charger.
  • eternityforest 3y ago
    I specifically avoid buying anything without USB-C. Not only do I like having everything on the same connector, MicroUSB is often the least reliable part of a device aside from battery calendar aging.
• scarface_74 3y ago
  One criticism of Apple back in the Ive days was the lack of practicality. I like the fact that Apple relented on the MacBook Pros and they have an HDMI port. I don’t want to have to use dongles unnecessarily. > Apple fanboys/fangirls/fanothers: even the Mac Pro includes two legacy USB-A ports (admittedly it also has four Thunderbolt ports). Why is this relic of old tech cluttering the clean design of an Apple product in 2021? This is naive. The chip hardware support to have 2 extra USB A ports is nothing compared to having two extra USB C/Thunderbolt ports and USB C/Thunderbolt is overkill for many situations.
  • hotnfresh 3y ago
    I regularly wish my work MacBook Pro had a single A port. I understand my personal Air not having one—it’s lacking all ports but C—but it’s the one thing preventing my MBP from being as always-useful-entirely-on-its-own as the 2014 Pro I used to have.
    • boopmaster 3y ago
      I carry a usb a to c cable in my “go bag” to work. It’s a 3” cable with some flex to it. Weighs nothing. They are in the range of $10 Put in an expense report if IT doesn’t have one for you?
      • hotnfresh 3y ago
        Sure, but it still makes the pro slightly worse than it could be. One of the things that quickly convinced me I’d been computing wrong, the first time I was issued a MBP, was that I could just pick it up and walk off and be able to work for hours. No need to grab the power brick or an extra battery (did I remember to charge it?) in case I was away more than two hours, no need to take a mouse, since the trackpad was actually a viable input device beyond a few painful minutes. Enough ports I’d almost certainly not need anything else (I wasn’t doing network tech stuff anymore, so absent Ethernet didn’t hurt me) The windows machines at work have A ports (and C). They have a single notable leg up in the MBPs, now, as far as pick-up-and-go capability. Of course they still lag in other areas, but it’s gone from pure win to “most of it’s better… except that one thing”.
• p1mrx 3y ago
  USB-C was designed for highly-integrated mobile devices. Motherboard vendors don't want to deal with power delivery and DisplayPort, and users will be confused when that stuff doesn't work. When a USB-C port is out in space, rather than flat on a desk, C-to-A adapters create a lever arm that increases the risk of damage. Though this can be solved by using adapters with ~100mm of wire in the middle.
  • quickthrower2 3y ago
    I always found that my C to A erred on the side of letting the cable fall out. So no damage but fairly irritating.
  • kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
    Power Delivery was an addendum to USB 2. It is specified for USB-A ports.
    • barrkel 3y ago
      You aren't going to get 20W of fast phone charging power out of USB 2; you get 2.5W tops. USB 3 gets you to about 5W. Meanwhile USB C goes up to 240W. You're probably never going to get that directly out of a motherboard.
      • themerone 3y ago
        The majority of USB C ports will never support 240W power delivery.
      • gruez 3y ago
        >you get 2.5W tops False. USB-BC allows up to 1.5A, or 15W and doesn't require usb-c https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#USB_battery_charging https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#USB_battery_charg...
    • xobs 3y ago
      I haven't ever seen a controller that does the BPSK modulation required for A ports. I suspect the standard was defined, but everyone just decided to do signalling over the CC pins on USB-C and ignore the USB-A standard. If you know of any controllers that implement the spec, I'm very interested in knowing part numbers! If for no other reason than as a historical curiosity.
• nfriedly 3y ago
  > mechanical hard drive and a feeble 8 GB of RAM (is that even enough to run Windows by itself?) Windows 10 runs acceptably on a Core 2 Duo with 4 GB of RAM - this was my son's gaming PC until a couple of months ago. (It did have an SSD, though - a mechanical hard drive would certainly have reduced the snappiness.)
  • imoverclocked 3y ago
    It’s pretty crazy that an operating system needs that much at all. I mean, we all get used to these big numbers but 4GB is actually a lot of bits. A single GB can store more books than a human can read in their lifetime. Somehow, we have accepted that the most fundamental piece of software on a computer should require many lifetimes worth of books of RAM. We have come a long way from thinking we would never need more than 640k!
    • dharmab 3y ago
      By point of comparison, my fairly minimal Linux partition uses ~200MB of RAM after booting, and I suspect a good chunk of that is cache.
    • at_a_remove 3y ago
      I used to kill off services I didn't need on my Windows NT 4.0 Workstation ... I could get it down to thirteen megabytes of RAM used.
    • dagmx 3y ago
      But you’re conflating data at rest vs data in memory. A pdf for example can be very small but then take up considerably more memory to display an embedded image once it’s done decompressing for render. Similarly text is more expensive just by virtue of higher resolution displays. What we ask of our machines has expanded greatly, and the immediacy with which people want things to load is more exacting too, so a lot of content is kept warm in memory. I’m not saying 4GB is a healthy amount and I agree there’s likely room for optimization, but let’s not also act like there aren’t huge advances in what computers do to necessitate that either
• barrkel 3y ago
  The big upgrade in USB-C for mobile devices is power delivery; a secondary benefit is video output for laptops, enabling docking using a single cable instead of an old-fashioned dock. PCs aren't in the power delivery game and don't really need an extra video output. Meanwhile, USB 3 over a USB A socket is still able to transfer 500 MB/sec of data - I just did this earlier today, copying from an old M2 SSD in an enclosure to my new upgraded installed SSD. That's pretty quick. USB C could double it, but how often do you need 1 GB/sec? Not many flash drives can deliver that outside of SSDs in enclosures.
  • LorenPechtel 3y ago
    USB C is easier to use. Machines should have more C ports even if they have to share controller lanes--rarely would anyone be in a situation to saturate the system but being able to have multiple devices plugged in at once is useful. I'd be perfectly happy with an internal USB C hub--but I have never seen such a thing. (I *do* have an internal USB 3 hub. Same issue--the convenience of multiple ports, I don't need the bandwidth of them having their own controller lanes.)
    • Diffusion3166 3y ago
      >USB C is easier to use. Not in my experience. The last few times I went to try to use one of my USB-C peripherals it was a pain. For example I wanted to use my portable external monitor with my laptop. Both are "USB-C" however the issue is that USB-C describes the physical connector and not much else. I already new my laptop supported DisplayPort Alt Mode and I knew that was what the display was expecting (rather than being USB display adapter). However, I then ended up digging through the box of USB-C cables testing them until the third cable I tried lit the screen up. This was the general experience with my Thunderbolt M.2 interface as well. I don't have much that takes uses PD but as I understand that's yet another dimension of permutations. Without intimate knowledge of both devices /and/ the cable it's hard to say what any combination of "USB-C" parts will do. Even OEMs fail to get this right. I friend recently told me of buying Dell laptops which offered a dock as an option. Unfortunately, the dock expected Thunderbolt & DP MST while the laptop only supported USB3. My personal opinion is that the relative lack of USB-C in a highly competitive, consumer market like DIY Motherboards is likely because even after 10 years the consumer demand is just not there. When judged the more lofty aspirations of USB-C that are being expressed here (replacing most if not all USB-A, HDMI, DP, Thunderbolt, and lower wattage power cables), I consider USB-C to be a failure.
• nfriedly 3y ago
  The vast majority of keyboards and mice are USB-A, so you want at least two USB-A ports for those. Even Apple recognizes this, which is why the desktop Mac's still have a couple of USB-A ports. (And most of the rest are Bluetooth, not USB-C!) USB-C has its merits, but I think they are bigger on mobile devices where you only have a limited number of ports and they have to serve multiple roles. On a desktop, it's certainly nice to have a couple of USB-C ports, especially if they're USB4, but you also have dedicated ports for video, audio, etc, so the versatility isn't quite as valuable.
• danbolt 3y ago
  I can’t speak for other people, but I feel like my life is a revolving cocktail of USB Type-A, Type-B, Micro, and Type-C. I can’t just cut and re-crimp my old 2001 Sony Memory Stick USB adapter (which still has drivers available for Linux) to support USB-C. One thing that stuck out to me about the article is that the author didn’t talk much about their use cases with USB.
  • kalleboo 3y ago
    > I can’t just cut and re-crimp my old 2001 Sony Memory Stick USB adapter (which still has drivers available for Linux) to support USB-C Yeah but you can put a $2 USB A-C adapter plug on the end of it and just leave it there
  • jacquesm 3y ago
    I still have a bunch of devices on USB-mini, that's the hardest one to source stuff for.
• korginator 3y ago
  USB-A should be relegated to the rubbish-heap of poorly designed interfaces for the simple reason that it has no physical indication (e.g., RS-232C) or clear visual indicator for orientation, and you get it wrong 50% of the time. It's way beyond time the USB-A interface is eliminated. USB-C can't get here fast enough. My MacBook pro only has USB-C ports, they work well for data, video out, as well as power (charging) and I am glad to be rid of the USB-A ports.
  • anakaine 3y ago
    This said, USB-C needs to have its standards updated, and standardised. Eg all cables must support a minimum of USB 3.1 with power and data, with appropriate shielding. Stop yielding so many concessions. I'm already in a spot where I have a number of USB-C to C cable varieties that all look basically the same, but have very different characteristics. One cable basically refuses to charge anything. Another has no data capabilities. Another can carry decent power, but data is seemingly slower than USB 2.0. It's an absolute shitshow that manufacturers can ship something with USB-C ends and carrying USB-C markings that meets an arbitrary free for all standard.
    • eternityforest 3y ago
      For average consumers it's great. I think my phone is the only thing I own that could use 3.1(I assume, I've never looked because I do most everything wireless). Almost everything (Including my 200Wh solar generator!) Will charge from 5v at 5W on a regular USB, and almost nothing really needs more than that, slow charging is quite often fine for phones and tablets. Phones tell you if they slow charge, so it's just a matter of keeping the good cable plugged in the good adapter. For the way most people use USB-C, as a power cable that can do data with a little extra work when needed, it's already great.
    • crote 3y ago
      A big part of this is that a lot of manufacturers are just completely ignoring the standards. The standards specify a rather limited set of cables, and it specifies clear ways to label them which make it extremely obvious to consumers what the cable is capable of. But manufacturers just... can't be bothered to actually follow the standard. The main reason why there isn't one cable is that it has mutually-incompatible goals. A high-speed data cable needs expensive, thick, shielded data wires - and is limited to about 80 cm in length due to signal integrity issues. All completely fine for connecting a laptop to a docking station. On the other hand, a smartphone charging cable needs to be cheap, long, and flexible - but it doesn't need to carry high-speed data. The aforementioned docking station cable would technically work, but it'd be $30 rather than $3 and provide a far worse user experience.
• anonymouskimmer 3y ago
  > Wouldn’t it make more sense for all of the USB ports on a new PC to be USB-C and then use adapters for legacy components? It's annoying enough swapping wireless mouse adapter and keyboard plugs between my personal computer and my work computers multiple times per hour without also plugging and unplugging adapters. Bluetooth would be even worse. But that raises the question that maybe we aren't getting a lot of USB-C ports because wireless is expected to leapfrog it to some extent?
  • eternityforest 3y ago
    That's why Logitech has multi device Bluetooth mice! Not sure about keyboards but they probably have it.
    • anonymouskimmer 3y ago
      Thanks. It looks like they have it for the keyboards, too.
• gautamcgoel 3y ago
  I might be the minority here but I prefer USB-A. The connector feels more robust and I don't worry about damaging it. My keyboard, mouse, webcam, flash drives, etc. all use USB-A. A disadvantage of USB-C is that lint can get in the port and prevent a proper connection (this happens on my phone all the time). I believe that USB-A will be with us for a long time; the wisest thing at this point is to make sure that the latest USB protocols are supported over both physical ports. This was you can use USB-C on devices where small size is a priority (such as smartphones) and USB-A on devices where backwards compatibility/physical ruggedness are priorities.
  • crote 3y ago
    I have mixed feelings about it. Technologically I definitely prefer USB-C, and the "reversible cable" and "plug fits either way" parts are really neat. However, they do indeed feel quite a lot more fragile. USB-A is an absolute tank, and I regularly just haphazardly plug it in without paying much attention to it, knowing that I'm not going to damage it. With USB-C I'm always a bit careful about not putting too much strain on the connector - especially as most connectors are rather long and act like a lever! I can totally see myself breaking off USB-C ports because I forget to unplug the cable to my docking station. With USB-A, I pretty much expect to break the cable first.
    • lxgr 3y ago
      > With USB-A, I pretty much expect to break the cable first. It might seem that way, but the port supposedly breaks more easily than the cable in USB-A, since the A port contains springs (which will eventually get worn out and can be bent). Anecdotally, I've seen tons of broken A ports with exactly that failure in airplanes, buses, and other places with public USB charging ports that people don't treat particularly nicely. The leverage of C plugs does seem scary, but I have yet to encounter a broken port – fingers crossed!
      • sh-run 3y ago
        Less than an hour ago I set my backpack down on top of a usb-c cable plugged into the back seat usb-c port in my car. The cable broke at the plug, but the port is fine. I'm a little upset with myself because it was my only 5A rated usb-c cable.
• crote 3y ago
  Two reasons: 1. USB-C is more technically complicated, especially when you want to create a host, and especially when you want to do anything faster than USB 2 speeds. Fully-integrated chips for USB-C are still quite rare, so you have to hook up a handful of different not-exactly-cheap chips to add a USB-C port. On the other hand, USB-A is pretty trivial and can be added at basically zero cost. 2. There's still a wide USB-A ecosystem out there. Having to use adapters suuuucks, so people want to have at least some USB-A ports in their system. Moreover, a lot of more-trivial peripherals feature USB-C ports rather than pigtails, so you can easily connect them to USB-A ports with A-to-C cables. The balance will slowly shift towards USB-C, but it's not exactly surprising that USB-A is still quite common.
• dehrmann 3y ago
  The main benefits vs USB 3.0 A jacks is it can also carry video and power. This makes a lot of sense for laptops, but much less for desktops. Thunderbolt is its own thing, and these wouldn't be thunderbolt ports. That leaves speed, but there aren't many applications for more than 10 Gbps. You're either going to use PCIe or Thunderbolt.
• 3np 3y ago
  USB-C aside, I find that *TX motherboard manufacturers have been too unimaginative when it comes to I/O and haven't evolved for the past ~10y to serve growing demand in new and evolving segments. My pet-peeve: If you want more than a single NIC in an AMD-based small form factor, your options are extremely limited. Even if you're open for importing and paying >$300 for just the board or going a couple of generations back. Meanwhile, you have a plethora of options in the exploding segment of NUC-like mini-PCs. There's almost nothing on the market in-between firmware-roulette Chinese mini-PCs and effectively ATX-sized breakout-rigs. Asrock RACK (with scarce availability) is the only exception I can think of over the past 5y. I don't get it.
  • dboreham 3y ago
    You need a PCI card NIC anyway for when Realtek introduces another high throughput triggered bug in their driver and the motherboard NIC becomes useless.
    • toast0 3y ago
      If you're getting a motherboard with multiple NICs, it's probably not limited to lowest cost NICs, so Intel is on the table. (Although, I'm still not sure if they got their 2.5g NICs to work?) Dual NIC boards with AMD sockets does seem like a niche unfulfilled, though. There's some options on the Intel side though, something like ASRock Z690M-ITX/ax might work if you compromise on CPUs.
      • Jhsto 3y ago
        The server space is quite nice with the ASRock Rack models: last month, I bought ROMED8-2T and got double 10G NIC and EPYC compatibility in ATX form factor. I also paid $100 extra for Intel NICs plus an USBC port. The motherboard cost 920 dollars though.
  • vluft 3y ago
    something that might be useful to you for that; you can get m.2 slot network adapters which you could use on (some) ITX boards. there's at least 1 & 10gbe ones available.
• TheRealPomax 3y ago
  A lot of devices don't need what USB-C offers: USB-A is a concurrent, not legacy, standard. You want USB-C for high-power, high-transfer-speed connections. An incredible number of peripherals don't need either of those things, connecting them with USB-C just makes no sense.
  • caturopath 3y ago
    "No sense" seems like a strong claim. USB-C is a better plug (reversible, durable). I don't know how much more expensive USB-C might be, but considering the number of cheapo devices that come with an unwanted cable with at least one (often 2) USB-C ends, I assume it's not all that high. The main use I encounter where USB-A is actually better are dongles that don't stick out.
    • TheRealPomax 3y ago
      Can't say the USB-C is all that much of a better plug. Reversible: certainly convenient, but the tiny little stubby easily breakable plug? Strong minus. I've snapped a million micro-USB connectors (may it die as many deaths in favour of either real USB-A or USB=C), more USB-C connectors than I wish I had, but I can't remember ever snapping a USB-A connector.
      • caturopath 3y ago
        Eep, I've had much better luck than you! My bigger concern for tugs would be whether the plug or the socket broke first, I think, though I don't know what fares better by that metric
  • stephenr 3y ago
    Usb4 does not define "type-a" connectors, thus type-a by definition is not "concurrent" with type-c in the usb spec. It is deprecated/legacy (ie still in use but not supported by newer versions of the spec)
    • TheRealPomax 3y ago
• nubinetwork 3y ago
  Find me a device that needs the bandwidth of USB type C. The only thing that springs to mind are 4k HDMI capture cards...
  • lbourdages 3y ago
    USB type C is a connector. It says nothing about the protocol it supports. It could be anything from USB 2.0 up to USB 4/Thunderbolt 4.
  • stephenr 3y ago
    M2 SSDs can already saturate even a Thunderbolt port; then there's the alt-mode uses like DisplayPort, or the tunneling in usb4 that essentially gives thunderbolt3 functionality, such as running PCIe devices.
  • dagmx 3y ago
    Tons of things. High resolution displays at high frame rates High speed storage External GPUs High speed networking
• gattis 3y ago
  any device that doesnt need a 20gbps or higher link is better off connected to your motherboard via a usb-a to usb-c cable. the "a" connector has not been deprecated. in some ways it is the superior connector, higher mating cycles, less fragile, less likely to get ripped loose, much more torque required to bend, and so on. the "c" connector is more useful on the opposite end where you will be plugging in and out more frequently.
  • lxgr 3y ago
    > higher mating cycles It’s the other way around. USB-C sockets are much more robust than their A counterparts, since the spring is in the plug for C, as opposed to in the socket for A.
    • gattis 3y ago
      perhaps. but thats why you have the C at the other end because it doesnt make sense to be frequently plugging things in and out of the motherboard and and wearing down those connectors. but i doubt you will get more cycles out of C in real life. that might be what the spec says but given the pitch of the pins on the C connector compared to the A, you have a world of greater tolerance to work with
      • lxgr 3y ago
        If you don't frequently plug things into your mainboard, does it even matter? > but i doubt you will get more cycles out of C in real life You're free to doubt the designers of the USB specification and/or the manufacturer's compliance with the specification, but just logically, the part about having the springs in the plug, not the port, makes sense to me. I've seen many broken USB-A ports in airplanes and other public charging ports with the spring connectors bent beyond recognition.
        • gattis 3y ago
          manufacturer's compliance with the specification has always been a total joke heh. i see what you're saying about the springs, but i shouldn't have brought mating cycles into the discussion. the side plugged into the motherboard should just be secure above all else. i can easily ruin any usb-c connector with just my thumb and index finger. the thickness of the A shell and its square profile prevent it from bending under torque pretty darn well.
• tom_ 3y ago
  I feel dumber after reading anything by Greenspun. Look at me, actually saying this out loud, wasting all your time with the sort of pointless comment that 5 minutes ago I'd have laughed at the very idea of posting. That's the power of the man's content. What a guy!
  • balls187 3y ago
    I dunno. I always enjoyed the pictures of his white dog.
• amelius 3y ago
  No matter what devices I use, USB seems to give me a bit error every few terabytes or so, over cheap cables >1ft. This makes me wonder: how do I find good (certified) cables, and why isn't there forward error correction in the USB protocol such that cheap cables simply work?
  • lxgr 3y ago
    USB does use error detection (CRC), but if you transfer enough data over anything, you'll eventually see undetected errors.
    • amelius 3y ago
      If this is true, then the MTBF design parameter is unacceptably low.
      • lxgr 3y ago
        USB does have a specified maximum bit error rate, and presumably the CRC length is tuned accordingly. What it probably does not have is a detectable error counter that marks a link as broken (e.g. in case of a bad/damaged cable, plug or controller) before the chance of an undetected error becomes unacceptably large, although it seems like a host would be able to implement that as an optional feature?
      • dwaite 3y ago
        It is rated maximum 1 bit error per 10^12 bits, which makes the chance of enough errors within a single packet to break the CRC (or to cause more than 3 retries) astronomically small.
    • treyd 3y ago
      Presumably if it's a mass storage device with block-addressible storage then the host's fs driver should be able to (if it has its own file checksums) transparently identify the corruption and re-read the block, right? Or at least bubble up to the user and fail the operation instead of allowing silent data corruption.
• at_a_remove 3y ago
  PS/2 connectors lived on motherboards for a very very long time after mice and keyboards went to USB.
  • userbinator 3y ago
    PS/2 ports are still there on high-end and "gamer" mobos. This is also related to the fact that a lot of high-end keyboards/mouses are also PS/2. They don't cost more than USB, are simpler in many ways, and if the mobo has dedicated ports for them, I think it make sense to plug the keyboard and mouse there to free up USB ports for other peripherals that are almost exclusively USB.
    • hurryer 3y ago
      You can actually damage the port if you unplug a PS/2 connector while power is on. Happened to me.
    • dagmx 3y ago
      There’s also the matter of PS/2 interruption vs USB. I don’t believe it truly matters much anymore but there were distinct advantages of PS/2 The link below has several outlined though I can’t speak to their veracity or relevance anymore https://superuser.com/questions/341215/is-there-a-distinct-advantage-that-a-ps2-port-has-over-a-serial-usb-port https://superuser.com/questions/341215/is-there-a-distinct-a...
  • iopq 3y ago
    The initial roll out of USB mice was on 125Hz polling interval. The PS/2 mice were faster at first because they sent the signal immediately with no delay. You can easily see the difference - with 125Hz it's impossible to draw a good circle with a mouse since it will always draw short straight lines
• leduyquang753 3y ago
  USB-B is also alive and well in areas like audio production.
  • dagmx 3y ago
    That’s device side however rather than computer side. But yeah, usually USB-B is paired with USB-A on the other end. That said, a lot of new gear is USB-C only
• zxexz 3y ago
  I just want at least 1 of both. For at least the next 10 years. I will still have USB-A peripherals I use daily to weekly until then. I would've paid $100+ extra for a USB-A port on this macbook.
  • davegirdy2 3y ago
    The aux cord removal is still felt by many
    • mjevans 3y ago
      I refuse to buy a mobile phone without one. Just not happening.
      • dbtc 3y ago
        What phone would you buy right now if needed one?
        • wilsonnb3 3y ago
          Asus and Sony are still holdouts in the premium price range, Motorola and OnePlus in the budget range, and also a number of Chinese manufacturers I think
          • IYasha 3y ago
            Sony, AFAIK, still gurantees boot unlocking, so, they're cool. But the price...
        • ijustlovemath 3y ago
          I have an xcover 6 pro that I adore! Pros: - incredibly durable; in the first week I had it, it slipped out of my pocket and was run over by a car, screen side down. No lasting damage aside from a few marks on tne glass - headphone jack - expandable storage - removable battery - dock-rechargable (which makes up for its lack of wireless charging) - pretty clean android skin, cleaner even than my Pixel (which had a nonremovable google search box) - has 3 programmable buttons, each with two options, so you can have hardware that launches your most used/time-sensitive apps. I have one mapped to Shazam, for example. Cons: - pretty big - cant remove some samsung apps - not a great camera or flashlight Overall i would definitely buy another!
• snickerbockers 3y ago
  Calm down bro, it's just another cable, it's not like your motherboard needs to switch between host and client.
• treyd 3y ago
  It's very easy to bodge together a USB-A connector in a pinch in a way that USB-C just isn't. USB-A is simple and there's literally tens of billions of devices that would be made just a little bit closer to being e-waste if USB-A ports became substantially less common than they already are on mainstream devices. Adapters exist and should exist, but we shouldn't have to rely on them.
  • wetpaws 3y ago
    [dead]
  • arcticbull 3y ago
    It's also very easy to bodge together a USB-C connector in a pinch that only supports USB 2.0 USB-C is an extraordinarily flexible connector and is super backwards-compatible. If you wanted to provide the exact same support as a USB A port, it's not any more complex. Just finer pitch to solder, but not any finer than anything else on the motherboard. An A to C cable is also entirely passive. I think it's ok to rely on them. The future is now, time to move on. It's been 27 years.
    • ginko 3y ago
      >It's also very easy to bodge together a USB-C connector in a pinch that only supports USB 2.0 If I found out (some of) the USB-C ports on my mb were limited to USB 2.0 speed and power I’d be quite pissed.
      • ziml77 3y ago
        I would hope nothing on your mobo is bodged from the factory.
    • mort96 3y ago
      Have you seen how big the contact pads are on type A, and how small they are on type C? I don't think anyone is "bodging together" a type C connector or soldering anything on its contact pads.
  • 3y ago
• userbinator 3y ago
  My experience has shown that USB C connectors are far more fragile than A, and every time I plug one in, for some reason the fit just feels vague and unsatisfying. An A plug, when you get it the right way, slides in solidly. As others have mentioned, C seems to have been designed to be the smallest possible, which makes sense for mobile devices, but not for a desktop and its peripherals.
  • al_borland 3y ago
    I recently moved my display over to running on USB-C, so I could have one cable to charge my laptop and feed the display. Plugging it in was a very unsatisfying experience. The port seemed misaligned, so I had to be a fair amount of effort into it, and once I got it, it felt like nothing. I was worried when I rotated the monitor back into position, or adjusted the hight, that it would fall out. I haven’t thought about that in years with other ports. It works, and I like that it’s one cable, but the feel is awful.
  • iknowstuff 3y ago
    Seems fine on MacBooks
  • JohnFen 3y ago
    This is my experience as well. I have had substantially more problems with USB C connectors failing than with any of the prior USB types.
  • gloosx 3y ago
    In a macbook pro build it certainly feels like this. I have an old 2015 mbp with A connectors serving for almost ten years now. When I plug something in it is tight and solid and feels right. On my latest mbp with C connectors, they are loose already after a year of service, I need to wiggle and shake the connector inside the port to get a nice contact and make peripherals work, of course, that breaks it even more over time.
  • karlshea 3y ago
    I think that’s dependent on the port, there are some I’ve plugged into with a very satisfying click and it felt very secure. But you’re right the cheap ones are pretty vague.
• physicsguy 3y ago
  Most people buying a desktop unplug their old desktop and plug the new one in in its place, swapping over all the peripherals.
• guidoism 3y ago
  I own several devices that won’t work with a C-to-C cable. Somehow something gets confused. You need to use a C-to-A cable and if you have a computer that only has C ports like me, then you need to use an A-to-C dongle. What a mess.
  • cesarb 3y ago
    > I own several devices that won’t work with a C-to-C cable. Somehow something gets confused. You need to use a C-to-A cable These devices are probably missing the resistors between each of the two CC pins and the ground, which are necessary to tell the computer on the other end of the C-to-C cable "I'm a device and need you to put 5V on the power pins". The C-to-A cable, on the other hand, always has that 5V power (because the A end of the connection always supplies power; that's the reason why A-to-A cables are forbidden, they would short together the power supply of both ends), which means the device gets powered even if it's missing the CC resistors. That is, it's a manufacturing defect, and the device was probably tested only with C-to-A cables; once C-to-C cables become more common (at least where I live, it took a long time before I managed to even find one, while C-to-A cables were plentiful and many devices came with one), this will become less of a problem.
• shmerl 3y ago
  It's moving there, but slowly. Recent Asrock motherboards have 2 USB 4 ports already.
• teekert 3y ago
  It would be nice to see USB-C replace hdmi etc. But USB-A has been adopted as a sort of low power dcdc power delivery method. It’s in cars and wall sockets. Things that have very very long life times. USB-A will probably stick around for a long time.
• jmspring 3y ago
  Te author is… delusional at best. USB has multiple standards that use the “a” type port. And many peripherals exist that are primarily “a” and not “c”. Apple is on the usb-c track because the eu is forcing them to conform to such.
• lifeisstillgood 3y ago
  Because every designer has a choice - build onboard A connectors and supply seperate A-C adaptors or build C-onboard and supply seperate C-A adapters. The incentives are to make the motherboard at a price point and A connectors are going to be 1cent or less cheaper. This is probably true for the cable adaptors too. But if I had to put money on one thing it's power - you can run a small laptop off USB-C which is where the whole thing shoukd be moving to - USB-C for everything power and data, but making every connector hook up to the 5.5V on the motherboard is awkward and marking just one is confusing. It's not a great argument but my take is USB-C is only great when every connection is USB-C and if it's not great then why bother
• fragmede 3y ago
  usb-c is obtuse about hubs. you're not supposed to be able to daisy chain them, which is total crap, but also means that it's very limited in how you can just throw some extra ports around.
• JaDogg 3y ago
  Some devices feature USB-C ports that do not conform to the specifications. They're essentially just a DC barrel port disguised in USB-C clothing. and various other combinations exist as well with partial features.
• biblbroxxx 3y ago
  To be honest, I haven't seen broken type-c cable yet. But I saw damaged USB A cables due to wrong insertion side. Someone just inserted a cable with a huge force to a port.
• grammers 3y ago
  Everyone wants their own, I guess.
• otikik 3y ago
  I found calling USB-A ports “legacy” a bit funny. “Less modern” perhaps.
• VBprogrammer 3y ago
  I have one of those USB-C to HDMI + USB + SD-Card etc adapters on my laptop. It definitely looks like it's not doing the connector on the computer any good. At some point I'll 3d print a holder to take the strain off the connector.
• nottorp 3y ago
  I think the main reason is cost. A proper usb-c port should be able to be used for storage, display and powering devices with high power requirements. Even 15W is kinda high power unless you're buying a top end space heater from Intel. Now multiply this circuitry by 6-10 ports...
  • Laforet 3y ago
    There is no need to make every port fully featured. Even MacBooks doesn't have that for the kind of price they demand
    • tremon 3y ago
      Having different ports that are mechanically compatible but not feature-wise is a UX failure. The blue/black color labeling made that somewhat acceptable for USB-A, but now that motherboards have started to use blue/red color labeling for ports that are feature compatible (just connected differently internally), even that color labeling is becoming a UX failure.
    • nottorp 3y ago
      I think at least the Mx do have only fully featured ports? If they support just one display but you can plug it in any port is one thing. On a motherboard you're more likely to see 'these 5 ports are data only, 2 of them can charge beyond 5W, and that 6th port can be used for a display'.
• GuB-42 3y ago
  All of the devices I have plugged in or use regularly on my desktop now are USB-A: Only USB-A, no plug on the other side: keyboard, USB stick, Oculus Rift (CV1) B/mini/micro on the other side: scanner, digitizer tablet, sound card USB-C but shipped with USB-A to C cable: mouse USB-C, shipped with both USB-A and C cable: HDMI capture card Many of my devices that use USB for charging are still micro-USB So yeah, many of these devices are quite old, but from a practical standpoint, I actually need zero USB-C sockets on my motherboard, and many USB-A. I guess it will change in the future, and it is good I have a USB-C (unused) port on my motherboard, but for now USB-A is simply more useful.
  • IYasha 3y ago
    USB-A is only unsuitable for small handheld devices, but is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO less confusing than all others!
  • m463 3y ago
    I hate the trend to remove USB-A from laptops. Put as many or as few USB-C ports as you want, but there should be at least two USB-A ports.
  • arghwhat 3y ago
    At this point, the only type A cables I use are bundled cables that have type C at the other end because I don't have enough type C ports for all C-C cables. In other words, I actually need zero USB type A ports - I'm just without choice. There's still the oddball micro-B (or mini-B, which is an awful connector) device out there, but that does not require a type A port.
• IYasha 3y ago
  I'm 100% sure I can repair USB-A 2.0 host and cable connectors with common soldering iron. I'm almost sure I can repair USB-A 3.0 connectors. I'm 90% sure I won't be able to fix even 2.0 USB-C without help of special tools and a microscope, not to mention hand tremor. (
• sylware 3y ago
  My 2c: because peripheral devices have a HUGE life cycle, and tons are still using legacy/big USB legacy connectors. And MB manufacturers do not want to provide a few legacy/big USB legacy connector <- USB-C connector converters with their MBs, probably because of costs.
• pier25 3y ago
  I built another PC recently and it got me thinking how archaic and clunky the whole thing is. The biggest improvement in the building experience of the past 20+ years is probably getting rid of SATA and IDE cables with NVME SSDs.
• moondev 3y ago
  Framework mainboards are all usb-c
• throw555chip 3y ago
  The whole idea that Type C should replace Type A is odd to me. Actually the number of times I've had to buy new cables and connectors for USB is irritating.
• deafpolygon 3y ago
  USB-C ain't all that great. Though I say this, I hope that we all move forward to USB-C soon. First of all, most of us who use PCs will use them for a very long time. A PC put together will often last someone a full decade. The specification was barely published and finalized less than 10 years ago (August 2014)! USB 3.1 (still using the USB-A port) was introduced around the same time! USB-C had not hit widespread adoption until roughly 6 years ago - and the vast majority of computers that are in use today are from 5 years ago. Secondly, USB-C cables are still relatively expensive. Many cables don't adhere to the standard; many can only deliver data and not power, while other still can do power delivery but not data. Thirdly, USB-C ports may be the shiny new kind of port, but I find them to be incredibly brittle on motherboards and laptops. USB-A ports tend to be built like a tank, while USB-C ones tend to break if you push it in too far. Even though they're supposed to be more resilient, but somehow they aren't. Finally, there's still a bunch of stuff that uses USB-A.. no one wants to use a bunch of dongles with their PC.
• t0bia_s 3y ago
  USB-C cables are less flexble than USB-A cables. Which makes connected devices harder to manipulate with and connectors are more stressed. It just feels more fragile.