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Ask HN: Are people in tech inside an AI echo chamber?

• wrp 3y ago
  I have a friend who is a senior electronics engineer at a fairly large company. A few months ago, I mentioned ChatGPT in conversation and he had never heard of it. I was quite surprised since I've seen ChatGPT become a major topic of concern even outside tech among those in the humanities. I think the explanation is that since the concerns about LLM AI revolve around language use, the communities paying attention to it are not the same as what we normally categorize as tech.
• coldtea 3y ago
  Very much so. But also a hype wave. It's the successor the the big data wave, the ML wave, and countless others
  • Andrex 3y ago
    Seems like the successor the crypto craze after that crashed. I'm expecting a wave of grifters fairly soon.
    • samuellevy 3y ago
      You haven't seen them already? The "AI Lawyer", all of the people trying to sell LLMs as search engines, and just generally hundreds of projects that are outright dangerous uses of LLMs but seem like they might be feasible.
    • deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    • deadlast2 3y ago
      What I love is the same guys that were pushing crypto are now big into AI. The true entrepreneurs.
    • usrbinbash 3y ago
      I see that comparison pop up quite often, and I really don't see the connection. Cryptocurrencies have tried since 2009 to present some kind of problem to which they are supposedly the solution. The problems that generative ML models can solve are pretty clear.
• jhugo 3y ago
  > maybe AI mainstream adoption will take longer than we anticipate I mean, I'm in "tech", and I don't anticipate it happening soon. People want something they can trust, and current solutions are nowhere near that.
  • HKH2 3y ago
    Students want someone to do writing for them, and they only have to do a trivial amount of vetting. Now you can hand Lorem Ipsum in for homework!
    • solardev 3y ago
      That probably speaks more to the quality of our homework assignments than the quality of the student. In this day and age, why is our education still based on rote regurgitation?
      • HKH2 3y ago
        I agree. They should be chatting to ChatGPT instead.
        • solardev 3y ago
          They would probably learn more, honestly.
    • rsynnott 3y ago
      There was a fun example from a history lecturer a while back. Did you know that the Romans developed special anti-elephant crossbows to fight Hannibal? Because ChatGPT knows that. I think people who rely on this sort of thing for essay writing may be in for a rude awakening, especially when they have to write a thesis.
  • selcuka 3y ago
    It is already happening [1][2][3][4]. People want something that makes their jobs easier, not essentialy something they can trust. Not all tasks need to be 100% accurate, and, to be honest, people are not known for their trustworthiness either. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36097900 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36097900 [2] https://futurism.com/neoscope/microsoft-doctors-chatgpt-patients https://futurism.com/neoscope/microsoft-doctors-chatgpt-pati... [3] https://github.com/features/copilot https://github.com/features/copilot [4] https://www.electropages.com/blog/2023/06/researchers-demonstrate-power-of-chatgpt-designing-cpu https://www.electropages.com/blog/2023/06/researchers-demons...
• ftxbro 3y ago
  I saw other waves and this one is different. This is the first time we can unlock increasing cognitive capabilities by just basically letting capital grow its own ai. It's at the level of like invention of internet or currency or printing press or writing or maybe even human language.
  • steve_adams_86 3y ago
    I don’t see any evidence that it’s there yet. I do see that potential if AI were to improve dramatically, but I think we’re tricking ourselves into thinking it’s already here because what we’re seeing is so compelling. The reality as far as I can tell is that we still have an incredible distance to go to have anything comparable to unlocking spoken or written language.
    • ftxbro 3y ago
      I guess it's your right to believe that as long as you want, the evidence is that it's beating people at every exam like AP exams and GRE exams and bar exams and medical certification exams and not only like regurgitating facts but it's also superhuman level in theory of mind. And all that comes from just an architecture that reads every text and uses a lot of GPU power.
      • c-cube 3y ago
        Yeah right, it can answer written form exams that are similar to previous ones, and are expressed in formulaic ways. That's impressive, don't get me wrong, but it's also already clear that ChatGPT makes for a terrible lawyer (inventing cases looks bad) and literally can't act as a doctor cause it doesn't have, like, a body, or a sense of empathy. It's like saying that it got the theory part of a driving test correct so now we have self driving figured out.
      • steve_adams_86 3y ago
        I think these things are amazing, but I don’t think they’re comprehensively intelligent nor do I think we can easily reproduce this spark in other domains of intelligence. When we can, we will be creating something superhuman in the truest sense. What we have now isn’t that at all. I think it appears magical because we’re so enthralled by language. It’s a major interface into our world and we’re extremely stimulated by it. It conveys so much meaning to us with so little. In fact, when it conveys too little meaning we begin to search for it and fill in the gaps! Our brains are extremely eager to engage with language. I’m excited about this stuff, but what the models are doing isn’t as incredible as all of that seems.
• paulddraper 3y ago
  I've had plenty of non tech people talk about chat gpt. Especially college students
• throwawaaarrgh 3y ago
  This isn't just a tech echo chamber, it's the YC/SV echo chamber. Nobody is seriously looking at AI for normal products, because it's not trustworthy. Never really will be. Why do you think subways still have human operators? The combined investment & risk of full automation aren't worth it. It'll be useful for customer support bots, and backend things like spam filtering and other statistical analysis. But otherwise it's a flash in the pan.
  • flangola7 3y ago
    That's been said about countless tasks that are now done by machines. Computer was a job title. Printer was a job title. Very important jobs that didn't have room to risk errors.
    • bigmattystyles 3y ago
      Even computer used to be a job.
      • flangola7 3y ago
        That's what I just said...
        • bigmattystyles 3y ago
          Yea, I don't know what I happened in my brain... sorry :-P
  • porkbeer 3y ago
    Not sure why this is downvoted but I feel the SV bubble is its own bubble within the tech bubble without a doubt. And the biggest issue is that most of my friends in it seem to think everyone lives like them.
  • electrondood 3y ago
    It's an incredible tool for augmenting what humans already do. It shifts your role from grunt to output supervisor, imperative to declarative.
• ianbutler 3y ago
  I recently went to Cleveland to visit a friend who has nothing to do with technology. Him and his girlfriend had heard of ChatGPT and she uses it at work. They work in chemical engineering and health. I took that as a sign that it has gone mainstream.
• Eji1700 3y ago
  Yes. There's still a lot of people who aren't that aware of this stuff, and frankly, its because it still doesn't have much practical use. Its making headlines left and right, and businesses are all trying to figure out what this stuff does, but if you're not watching much news and not in the tech side of business you probably don't know or care?
  • electrondood 3y ago
    It has unbelievable practical use. ChatGPT is a personal tutor on any subject you can think of. It's more that 90% of people can't even be bothered to google the answer to a question they have, despite having a personal computer and oracle in their front pocket. I'm using an LLM to teach me interactively how LLMs work and how to integrate LLMs into our products. It's replaced 90% of my googling/stack overflow. Every engineer in our company is using Copilot and ChatGPT to write software.
    • sp332 3y ago
      How can it replace 90% of your Googling if you have to go check everything it tells you afterward?
      • ImAnAmateur 3y ago
        Our blind spot in vetting information is kind of like our blind spot when looking for something we have lost. We don't double check what we are sure of. To me, that is the most serious challenge when trying to learn using LLMs.
      • solardev 3y ago
        It's not like Googling typically gives you truthful answers either.
        • captainbland 3y ago
          The difference to me is that with search you can explicitly search only in trusted sources (with e.g. site:...) if you choose to and you get transparency about where the data is coming from. New Bing is a slight improvement in that you get some transparency about where it's getting information from and can tell it to prioritise accuracy, but can't actually explicitly tell it to use a subset of the web that you personally trust.
• ern 3y ago
  I know a lot of people who are using ChatGPT who aren't in tech. My spouse works in early childhood education and they use ChatpGPT routinely for low-value boilerplate stuff (social media posts that no one reads, etc). A relative is in commercial real-estate management, and they also use ChatGPT routinely (in fact they started using it before I did). So I don't think it's an echo chamber.
  • threeseed 3y ago
    My partner runs an ecommerce business and her team uses ChatGPT dozens of time a day. Everything from writing emails to suppliers, correcting grammar, responding to customers, brainstorming new product ideas, explaining contracts etc. Where as for me I can't find a use for it. Even as a coding assistant I find that I spent more time trying to understand/correct what it did than if I just wrote it myself.
    • kitsunesoba 3y ago
      The majority of my usage of ChatGPT as a dev has been to synthesize examples of APIs/tools/etc in usage when those aren't easy to find and/or when documentation is sparse/scarce.
      • piva00 3y ago
        Same to me so far, synthesise or summarise examples of tools I'm not familiar with to then explore the documentation. Lately I've been using it quite a bit for Arduino on a ESP32 board, I had toyed around with Arduino previously but since I got this board for a small hobby project it's been great to ask ChatGPT to generate some examples of the kind of data I want to read from a few sensors. Even when it hallucinates something wrong it's been helpful for my learning. Another way I've been using ChatGPT is to be a personal tutor to correct me when learning foreign languages, it's pretty easy to create a prompt asking ChatGPT to have a conversation with me in a given language while correcting any mistakes it believes I made, I've been getting feedback from these corrections from some native speakers and so far haven't got any case of "this is absurd and wrong", unsure why it works so well to correct my broken grammar but it does and without a fault.
• steve_adams_86 3y ago
  My kids and all their friends are crazy about AI. They’re bent on making it do as much of their work as possible. It’s fascinating. Though it probably isn’t intentional, AI service providers are already hooking kids early to have customers later.
  • michaelchisari 3y ago
    Or they're hooking kids because they're least likely to have the domain experience required to recognize how confidently wrong AI can be.
    • steve_adams_86 3y ago
      Well, I wonder what’s wrong more often: GPT or a 13 year old :)
      • michaelchisari 3y ago
        Bet a 13 year old with total confidence in GPT beats them both individually on any subject of reasonable complexity.
        • steve_adams_86 3y ago
          That’s the thing. If a kid approaches learning with a language model responsibly, they stand to learn a lot very quickly and solve difficult problems that would otherwise be next to impossible for them. The thing is, we need to teach them that today rather than tell them it’s cheating and try to catch them using it on essays and deal some kind of consequence. I now use it professionally fairly regularly and it’s an easily justified expense. I’ve already delivered things to clients faster because of it. Most recently I reasoned through prototyping a sort of minimal CMS experience using a self hosted CMS API connected to Next.JS, and had a viable plan and prototype at the proposal stage in as much time as I’d normally just do the research on something like this. If it’s feasible to accelerate learning and research for real world work, I think we should seriously consider how it integrates with education rather than encourage kids to avoid it entirely. Of course, we don’t have that awareness in our education workforce in Canada, but I wonder if it’s harmful to discourage the use entirely rather than accepting it and ensuring kids are still producing the work that’s expected. If it’s clearly GPT regurgitation with hallucinations and no bibliography, the kid has still failed to deliver. If they manage to do their work faster with technology (the main difference here is that they haven’t googled bunch of stuff, frankly) then great, they’re still learning something. And of course, the more you tell kids not to use it, the more they’ll want to (which I’ve come to love, honestly).
• drewcoo 3y ago
  > What do you think? What do you think? (meaning "yes")
• Ameo 3y ago
  Young people all know about AI. There are 24/7 live AI generated SpongeBob shows on TikTok, character.ai is immensely popular, ChatGPT is used by students for homework and stuff, Snapchat AI was all posted all over (mostly memes about how bad and out of touch it is), I get ads for AI anime girl generators, etc. I think there is certainly more talk about it inside tech circles, but I feel like it's more of a generational divide than anything else.
  • monk_e_boy 3y ago
    All my students us it a lot. We use it a lot in the office - we have a lot of digital paperwork to do, ChatGPT is fine at doing it all. It can write lectures, generate worksheets, come up with interesting quizzes, D&D stuff. It's just a tool, some people will find it useful, some won't. A bit like a chainsaw.
• CSMastermind 3y ago
  AI discussion has definitely made it mainstream and you can corroborate that just by looking at things like the ongoing Writer's Guild strike where AI generated content is a huge sticking point. That goes doubly for the Acting Guild which looks increasingly likely to strike as well.
• stevenwoo 3y ago
  This American Life and Planet Money have in recent months covered chat-gpt, though that audience may be skewed.
• arcticbull 3y ago
  I think the AI space is getting broad attention from the public, largely due to generative AI. However, I think this is a bit of a double-edged sword. AI has a trust problem - people know it lies to you. It lies to me all the time. Convincingly! This is hurting people's initial impressions and I suspect that we're going to lose traction for a while before we once again re-gain it as the trust problem is solved. Time will tell.
• samuellevy 3y ago
  There's definitely a few echo chambers around AI, but it's definitely not something that "just techies" are onto. ChatGPT made some waves at the end of last year. My in-laws were wanting to talk to (at) me about it at Christmas. There's plenty of awareness outside of the tech circles, but most of the discussion (both out and in of the tech world) seems to miss what LLMs actually _are_. The reason why ChatGPT was impressive to me wasn't the "realism" of the responses... It was how quickly it could classify and chain inputs/outputs. It's super impressive tech, but like... It's not AI. As accurate as it may ever seem, it's simply not actually aware of what it's saying. "Hallucinations" is a fun term, but it's not hallucinating information, it's just guessing at the next token to write because that's all it ever does. If it was "intelligent" it would be able to recognise a limitation in its knowledge and _not_ hallucinate information. But it can't. Because it doesn't know anything. Correct answers are just as hallucinatory as incorrect answers because it's the exact same mechanism that produces them - there's just better probabilities.
  • adrianN 3y ago
    AlphaGo is not aware that it’s playing a game either, but it’s better than humans at it. Awareness is not necessary to make people lose their jobs.
    • sam_lowry_ 3y ago
      > Awareness is not necessary Wasn't it the plot of a sci-fi novel by Vernor Vinge or someone at least as popular?
      • fiveg 3y ago
        You might be thinking of Blindsight by Peter Watts. Great book.
    • samuellevy 3y ago
      I don't really know anything about AlphaGo. There's more types of "AI" than LLMs, but that's not really the point. You don't need AI for people to lose their jobs... but nobody is losing their jobs to AlphaGo, and in the grand scheme of things it's unlikely that people are going to lose their jobs to GPT, too.
• trazire 3y ago
  There definitely is an echo chamber, but not related to the existence of ChatGPT and other AI technologies (even the "menial" laborers I know being relatively aware of it, and my parents and family members frequently talking about it in the context of deepfakes/cheating (at school)/automation/healthcare. Common reactions to ChatGPT and a lot of the fear are definitely overemphasized in the tech field, but that makes sense.
• p-e-w 3y ago
  No. Quite the opposite. Everyone else is in an echo chamber telling them that AI is a cool fad, a toy that will never fully replace people, etc., when in reality AI is the most disruptive technology since the Internet, and the most dangerous technology since the atomic bomb. I can't stop shaking my head whenever I read any article on AI written by non-tech journalists (and even many by tech journalists). AI is vastly more dangerous and more urgent than climate change, than Russia and China, than literally any other hot topic today, and it's being treated like a combination of a science fiction story and an entertainment tool.
  • jpgvm 3y ago
    Not really. AI -might- kill us if there is some quantum leap that makes it sentient. Climate change -will- kill us if we do nothing. For now one is simply not like the other, it may change but there is no guarantee we every breach that barrier.
    • p-e-w 3y ago
      > Climate change -will- kill us if we do nothing. Horseshit. There is not a single scientific model that predicts human extinction from climate change. Parts of humanity, yes. All of humanity, no chance. There a plenty of models that predict human extinction from AGI.
      • jpgvm 3y ago
        Climate change will kill millions in the next ~40-60 years and if course isn't corrected 100s of millions will follow. Seems like it will do a pretty damn good job of killing us even if it fails to kill all of us. I agree AGI would be horrendously dangerous and if achieved has a higher chance of complete extinction. However, we don't have AGI and it's still not clear we ever will.
      • Qwertious 3y ago
        I don't think it's likely, but climate change could easily wipe out humanity by exacerbating pre-existing geopolitical tensions. For instance, Pakistan and India famously share a river, and the treaty that governs its water rights was written with the assumption that the river wouldn't reduce in output. A sufficiently severe drought could cause a war between India and Pakistan, and both countries have nukes. You could dispute that WW3 would cause human extinction, and while I'm not remotely certain of it I think that WW3 could cause extinction, if there's a sufficient combination of 1) climate collapse and 2) worldwide economic collapse that makes high-tech systems impossible to sustain.
• amanzi 3y ago
  In my circle of friends, I'm the only one working in technology. But ChatGPT is something that everyone has tried and has been amazed by. For my non-tech friends, it's been mostly used for playing around, generating poems, etc - not really for productivity purposes.
• MattPalmer1086 3y ago
  Given ChatGPT reached 100M users shortly after launch, it must have a broader reach than just techies. There are regular articles on it in mainstream news. Most of the people I know have tried it. Some of them can't see it will be useful, and some of them already find it useful. Some of them are techies and some aren't. Some techies are in the set that don't think it is useful.
• RibbetRick 3y ago
  [dead]
• rvz 3y ago
  > are we just in an echo chamber? Yes.
• usrbinbash 3y ago
  > but maybe AI mainstream adoption will take longer than we anticipate It will take longer than some "evangelists" anticipate, but other than a lot of tech hypecycles (like web3), this one is different for 3 reasons: a) It's firmly in the public mindspace, including mass media b) It has already proven it's usefulness and applicability to real world problems c) Politics are taking it very seriously There are people who don't use it, for various reasons, but it is increasingly hard to never have heard of it. A large part of that drive is due to the simple accessibility: Making ChatGPT as a convenient and simple webapp that appeals to non-techies was a brilliant move, and Microsoft driving integration into it's product suite will further adoption as well.
• Qwertious 3y ago
  I don't think it's people in tech specifically - I think that "fire your workers because they're going to be replaced by AI" is a great excuse for firing workers without looking bad. Thus, anyone who might use that excuse has a strong incentive to play up the potential of AI (and thus the plausibility of their excuse), regardless of the actual value of AI. Also, we're all calling it "AI" for some dumbass reason. That infects our thoughts with unwarranted credit toward the technology.
  • throwaway3618 3y ago
    We (some of us at least) have been calling simple logic in computer games AI. And an artificial plant means some plastic shaped like a plant, it can't do photosynthesis, it can't grow, it can't reproduce. Meanwhile current AIs can code, explain a joke, etc. After all an artifice: (the use of) a clever trick or something intended to deceive
    • beeftime 3y ago
      they can't "code", they can't "explain a joke", they can output cached human data in such a way that it seems like they're generating these things themselves.
      • disconcision 3y ago
        what do you mean by this exactly? like whats an experiment which establishes the difference? a lot of human behavior is also only liminally generative cached retrieval
• rvense 3y ago
  On October 17th, 1979, VisiCalc was released. I'm sure pretty much every accountant in the world got up and went to work that day exactly like they'd been doing all of their career. It probably didn't feel different for that many of them. Most of them had probably never used a computer then, and a lot of them probably didn't feel any particular need to, at least until they tried it. There were probably more than a few who were near the end of the career managed to keep doing their job the old way for another half or whole decade or so, because even when the future moves fast it's never evenly distributed. There were probably also more than a few who saw VisiCalc and bought an Apple II to start doing their own books and ended up regretting it. I don't know where we are and how things will pan out, but I think there's a parallel.
  • kspacewalk2 3y ago
    You have to go back a whole lot further if you're making an analogy between chatGPT and spreadsheets. Back to Ada Lovelace, probably. VisiCalc did already useful and already transformative, the only things missing was better user experience and adoption. ChatGPT is a nice thought provoking toy, but not really useful other than as a novel search engine interface.
  • JW_00000 3y ago
    Agreed. On my Twitter timeline lots of people are saying "the world will be completely different in 6-12 months' time". On October 17th, 1980, most accountants' work day still looked the same as a year before. It took decades for spreadsheets to get widespread adoption. I think LLMs are revolutionary, but the (r)evolution will take decades to materialize. Our work days will look completely different... in 2043.
    • ignoramous 3y ago
      > I think LLMs are revolutionary, but the (r)evolution will take decades to materialize. 1980s was a different world. Today, the distribution that BigTech has, enabled by this thing called the Internet, changes the dynamic completely. Given the investment, I believe LLMs will change some of the industries within 5 years, simply because it is a new but natural way to interact with Computers; and Google/Apple already put an Internet-connected Computer in everyone's hands. This LLM hype is very real and is nothing like web3 (which lacked 10x utility over web2, imo).
• WA 3y ago
  In my circle, the non-techies use it as well for various writing tasks. Thing is: the non-techies seem to be even more impressed by the hype and don't realize when ChatGPT makes stuff up. I talked to a blue-collar worker (has his own business) the other day and he was in some Telegram group that "leveraged AI for marketing". You ever wondered who the target audience for these thin bullshit AI marketer wrappers on top of ChatGPT are? Or the courses and "mastermind" groups on how to write marketing prompts? Apparently, blue collar workers with a small business who want to save on actual marketing and don't have the expertise to realize the downsides.
  • pjc50 3y ago
    > Apparently, blue collar workers with a small business who want to save on actual marketing and don't have the expertise to realize the downsides. This might not be a bad market; if you're not experienced with writing things yourself and just need some text and don't want to find/pay a writer, it will do an acceptable job. It's like upgrading from a badly handpainted sign to a nicely printed one. Whether this is going to generate enough revenue for OpenAI is a different question.
• willvarfar 3y ago
  My manager is going on and on about how ChatGPT is the fastest growing product ever in history! And its true, ChatGPT claims to have 100M active users. But how active are they? Have they had 100M users briefly dally with it and ask a few banal questions to pick apart the answers, or have they got 100M dedicated repeat users who are heavily using it and keeping on it?
• Yizahi 3y ago
  All professions who need to write a lot of bullshit text are adopting NNs. So basically any advertisements, corporate news and emails etc. And parsing and responses to such ads or corpoletters, if they are required. Another area to be taken over - translations and language learning. Half a year ago my teacher had been suggesting different resources for different issues, like this online translator for this task, that translator for a different one, and yet another site to check suffixes. Last week her recommendation to checking grammar etc. was simply - ChatGPT. In my work I've yet to find a use for NNs, but maybe for the writing of a lot of templates in one go it could be useful.
  • camillomiller 3y ago
    Bullshit text is the right definition. ChatGPT can replace writers only in the head of those who’ve never actually written, don’t understand what writing actually is, and don’t care about a skillset that is not just summed up by being able to spit out coherent sentences. In my view, companies who fire their writers or believe that chatGPT can take their place already will experience a very harsh reckoning in the medium term.
    • matwood 3y ago
      A lot of copy doesn't need top writers. I think what we'll see is companies who adopt LLMs in tandem with their writers will get more productive than companies that go all one way or the other. And over time, there may be less writers required. I say 'may' here because humans have a knack for using any available capacity.
    • Yizahi 3y ago
      Can't generalize of course, but in my company there is a "healthy" mix of both bullshit texts and useful texts. And I'm guessing that this is the case in other companies. E.g. we have technical writes who are responsible to writing proper documentation and they are not going anywhere (yet). There is a majority of internal communication and it is mostly technical and on point. And at the same time there are many bullshil letters send to the company. Almost all letters from the C-suit fall there, because they need to pad one sentence (John Doe is appointed as a Director of Directorship) to a full page of A4 text. Most of the letters from HR/LND unless they are about some factual info, like here is a new service and how to use it. Monthly/Quarterly updates are often padded so much that they are unreadable. I'm guessing that most of the C-suit are already using NNs to write (and read) those kilometers of word salad.
• benjaminwootton 3y ago
  I think we are in all kinds of echo chambers, but "gen AI" seemed to hit escape velocity faster than anything I've ever seen. I've heard of students using it to write essays, marketing folks writing content, creatives using midjourney and lawyers/doctors thinking about how to integrate it into their workflows.
• onion2k 3y ago
  Asking one person and extrapolating from their response isn't a good way to approach a problem.
• demarq 3y ago
  Same experience, talked to a young, highly educated person about ChatGPT… they had no clue what I was going on about. But the more surprising thing is that even after I explained what it could do, they weren’t even slightly impressed. “So it tells you wrong answers? Sounds utterly pointless” I was flabbergasted. I think we do live in a bubble. I’m sure architects and surgeons have equally exciting advances in their fields that no one else cares about. I also think the medias sensationalist phrases should be taken with a pinch of salt: “The tech everyone is talking about”, “here’s the news that got everyone buzzing. etc I do think LLM are a significant event, but that will only be realised by building on top of it and “showing rather than telling”.
  • kieckerjan 3y ago
    Same here. My girlfriend is not impressed by GPT and its ilk at all. But I guess that for a non-technical person most things digital are a form of magic, and it is probably hard to tell the difference between the common magic of (say) a game on her phone and the heavy voodoo of an LLM.
    • parineum 3y ago
      I think the better perspective is that LLMs give that magic feel to technologists that aren't really used to it. It certainly did for me until I learned much more about them and used them a bunch. Now it just feels like a tool I can ask to help me build a docker container so I don't have to read docs.
  • azangru 3y ago
    > “So it tells you wrong answers? Sounds utterly pointless”. I was flabbergasted. Could you tell a bit more about why this objection surprised you so much? I am often seeing this in the same tech circles that rejected the web3 craze; and I have to confess, it does sound reasonable to me. There is a recent PR opened in the MDN docs repository after MDN added the "AI explain" button, pointing out how utterly useless a AI guide is if it gives you incorrect answers and you do not have enough knowledge to catch it [0]. [0] - https://github.com/mdn/yari/issues/9208 https://github.com/mdn/yari/issues/9208
• PurpleRamen 3y ago
  Define tech. AI-awareness is not limited to software-developers and tech-nerds. Anyone who has some software/internet-awarness and follows the news or social gossip, knows about them, or even uses them. So I'd say the echo chamber is more about your general mindset and social bubble. > maybe AI mainstream adoption will take longer than we anticipate. Everything always takes long than we anticipate. And it's not like AI today is the holy grail yet. It's still slow, expensive, with too many errors, and we are just less than a year in the real hype. Legal systems are busy with working out the corners and acceptance. We are still in the exploring-phase, and this can go on for several years. There will be significant changes in the next years, but the big bang is still upon us, and until then it will a locally fast, but globally average slow change.
• gumby 3y ago
  All the high school kids are using it, but that could be a Bay Area thing. My 86 yo father is far, far from Silicon Valley and his main activities are playing piano and talking with other residents of his retirement home, but he uses GPT-4 every day
• omgmajk 3y ago
  My parents (70 year olds) asked me about ChatGPT a while ago, I think people who haven't heard of it just don't follow the news.
• irrational 3y ago
  I work for a Fortune 100 company. Recently an email was sent to all 100,000 employees saying that nobody was allowed to use DALL-E 2, ChatGPT, Codex, Stable Diffusion, Midjourney, Microsoft’s Copilot, and GitHub Copilot, etc. due to concerns about those tools using other people’s IP (meaning our company might end up illegally using their IP) or the potential that the tools might get a hold of our IP through our use of the tools and share it with others. I kind of wondered at the time how many non-tech employees read the email and had no idea what it was talking about.
• kmarc 3y ago
  FWIW I have the exact opposite experience: people around me, who are _NOT_ in tech, keep talking about AI and lately especially ChatGPT, whereas serious (not only senior) IT professionals don't really. Besides the science behind it, currently it feels like the same hype as crypto a couple years before.
  • lrem 3y ago
    The hype is real. But this time it’s backed by something more real than free money out of thin air.
    • Gigachad 3y ago
      10 years of crypto and still no real use cases. Less than a year of chat gpt and the average person is using it to genuinely provide value.
      • imdsm 3y ago
        I mean, to say crypto has no real use cases is wrong. A lot of people are against crypto, and I can understand that, the whole cultural side of it is tough to digest. But if you strip away all of that: the twitter bots, the airdrops, the spam, the shills, the whole cultural lot, and you just look at the core, there are real use cases. Buying the pizza with bitcoin was the first proof. That being said, I can understand why people dislike it, same way that my grandparents only use cash, they don't trust bank cards. Imagine if we still only used cash?
        • oxfordmale 3y ago
          Buying pizza with a bitcoin? Is that the only use case you can come up with? Electronic money, instead of paper or coins, is there to stay. However, bitcoin is a very poor implementation of this. The mining alone has contributed significantly to the earth's yearly electricity consumption.
          • 3y ago
• neilv 3y ago
  Surely all students have heard of ChatGPT? (Anecdotally, seems the educators have. I've heard of cheating rates on papers at near half.)
• weevil 3y ago
  I spoke to my 70-year-old step-aunt about this yesterday for exactly this reason. She's a self-employed piano teacher with zero technical interest or knowledge, but a generally astute and clued-up kind of person. She said she's heard a lot about it, but it all sounds like marketing hype, tabloid sensationalism, or open alarmism from people who don't seem to know what they're talking about. She said some of her students had used ChatGPT for creating revision materials for their exams, and that they'd found it useful for that, but she found the assertion that mass unemployment is 6-12 months away 'pure speculation'.
  • laichzeit0 3y ago
    > but she found the assertion that mass unemployment is 6-12 months away 'pure speculation' Who in their right mind has been asserting that?
    • weevil 3y ago
      No idea. I've seen some mouths-for-hire on LinkedIn make these sorts of claims, but not seen any in reputable print.
  • LUmBULtERA 3y ago
    I've never met a single person claiming it will cause mass unemployment in 6-12 months. But the impact of ~ChatGPT 10.0 in 5 or 10 years from now? It's a lot more believable given its current state. My anecdote is that everyone is concerned about what it will do in the future gives its current proof of concept.
    • weevil 3y ago
      I've heard people make claims about it being 'not far off', but in my experience, these people tend to be making a living from speaking on AI (or previously Blockchain) and don't have any actual technical credentials. I personally think there's a number of reasons why we may be coming up on an AI plateau that we may not get out of for a long time, but that's a different matter.
  • 3y ago
• bodge5000 3y ago
  A few months ago I heard some mention of ChatGPT on some standard afternoon radio, so I dont think we're in an echo chamber. I think we probably hear about it far more than others but that should be obvious, I'm aware of things outside this industry but almost certainly nowhere near the same awareness as those who work in the industry.
• ergonaught 3y ago
  There are 8 billion people on this planet. No matter how big or well known anything is, the people who know or care about it is a small fraction of the population. I’m not sure that’s what “echo chamber” is intended to represent. People are unavoidably ignorant of vast swathes of “probably relevant to them” things. No one has time, inclination, or actual ability to keep up with it all. That reinforces the above but I am again doubtful that it is an “echo chamber” per se. Hacker News regulars, especially those engaged with comments, are operating within an echo chamber, sure. Outside of a couple of 70+ folks and some bikers, everyone I know is at least conversationally aware of recent “AI” developments so it’s most likely a function of your particular uselessly small sample size. :)
• EncomLab 3y ago
  Based on the recently released round 3 of Hotz and Fridman - YES! I kept think that the entire conversation sounded like two vocal transcription bots reading through r/AI and HN with a sprinkling of Twitter.
• imiric 3y ago
  Of course we are. But AI tools are mainstream now. You can hear them mentioned on TV, written about online and in traditional media, see them discussed on social media in non-tech circles, etc. So I'd say your friend is likely not well informed. AI tools are in the same arena as cryptocurrencies, perhaps slightly less widely known. Most informed people have heard about them, but not many outside of tech circles actually have any experience with them, and even less understand how they work. This is the natural progression of technology[1]. We've seen it happen with computers, the internet, the web, cell phones, etc. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_adoption_life_cycle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_adoption_life_cycle
• wildrhythms 3y ago
  There's a recent Pew article you might like. >Overall, 18% of U.S. adults have heard a lot about ChatGPT, while 39% have heard a little and 42% have heard nothing at all. >However, few U.S. adults have themselves used ChatGPT for any purpose. Just 14% of all U.S. adults say they have used it for entertainment, to learn something new, or for their work. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/05/24/a-majority-of-americans-have-heard-of-chatgpt-but-few-have-tried-it-themselves/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/05/24/a-majorit...
  • doctor_eval 3y ago
    Wait, 14% of US adults have used a product released 7 months ago? And this is considered "few adults" ?!
• finolex1 3y ago
  ChatGPT is currently number 12 on the App Store in the US, above Snapchat and Gmail, so I doubt there's an echo chamber.
• drakonka 3y ago
  A recent experience that was sort of the opposite: I went for a haircut and my hairdresser was an older Swedish woman who was not very technical. She told me she was having her hairdressing book translated from Swedish to English and had some trouble translating the title. The Swedish title contained a witty play on words, and she had trouble coming up with an English version that would sound as clever. She said she was using ChatGPT to help her brainstorm title ideas.
• ISNIT 3y ago
  I was at a house party full of non-tech YUPPies (economics, politics, etc.) over the weekend. Every single group was talking about ChatGPT. I couldn't get away from it.
  • hospitalJail 3y ago
    In January, I texted everyone I knew about chatGPT. I don't usually text 100 people, but I thought this was worthwhile. In Feb, at a birthday party, I talked to people about it, people knew about it but didn't use it yet. In March, at a different birthday party, everyone wanted to talk to me about it. Today, its old news. Although whenever I meet someone who says its a fad, I consider them a luddite.
• dsr_ 3y ago
  No, we're in a hype bubble. This one includes several meme complexes, the largest of which is shouting "LLMs/GNNs are AI!" By applying the label AI, they bring in the connotations of all the stories we have told ourselves about djinn, golems, robots, HAL-9000, Skynet, and (not frequently enough) the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation.
• mercurialsolo 3y ago
  The difference from the crypto wave was the crypto wave didn't surface too many applications outside the crypto-sphere. In this case it seems kinda the opposite, the enterprises are the first off the bat - existing products getting easier to use by ingraining LLM's into the workflow. ChatGPT to a large extent also does seem to be moving search terms away from google. I would love to see trends on google.com vs ChatGPT vs Bing over a period of time - Search definitely seems to be changing, where we want summaries and content rather than a bunch of sponsored ads and websites where the context has to be derived from search. I am also interested if the same is happening with StackOverflow -> the search on SO -> ChatGPT as a code generator. For mainstream adoption, the adoption will be driven by the everyday software and applications we use. We are still in the shovels and picks part of the world, yet to see native AI consumer applications emerge (barring ChatGPT).
• tkgally 3y ago
  I live in Japan and have been surprised by how much coverage there has been of ChatGPT in the mass media here during the past few months. Popular awareness seems to be increasing quickly, too. Here are some results of a survey conducted by Line Research [1, in Japanese]: Question: Do you know about ChatGPT? If yes, have you used it? (n = 1056 in both March and June) March 2023 Know about it and have used it: 4.8% Know about it but haven’t used it: 25.5% Don’t know about it: 69.7% June 2023 Know about it and have used it: 15.2% Know about it but haven’t used it: 55.8% Don’t know about it: 29.1% The survey also suggests that awareness is higher among younger people and that usage is higher among males. Search results at Amazon Japan and Amazon USA show that many books are being published about ChatGPT in both Japanese and English [2, 3]. Quite a few Japanese magazines have had cover stories about it recent months [4]. [1] https://markezine.jp/article/detail/42509 https://markezine.jp/article/detail/42509 [2] https://www.amazon.co.jp/s?k=ChatGPT https://www.amazon.co.jp/s?k=ChatGPT [3] https://www.amazon.com/s?k=ChatGPT&ref=nav_bb_sb https://www.amazon.com/s?k=ChatGPT&ref=nav_bb_sb [4] https://www.amazon.co.jp/s?k=ChatGPT&rh=n%3A13384021&__mk_ja_JP=%E3%82%AB%E3%82%BF%E3%82%AB%E3%83%8A&ref=nb_sb_noss https://www.amazon.co.jp/s?k=ChatGPT&rh=n%3A13384021&__mk_ja...
  • 5900 3y ago
    There was a similar survey conducted by Pew in the US [1]. From the results in May, 58% of Americans have heard of ChatGPT. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/05/24/a-majority-of-americans-have-heard-of-chatgpt-but-few-have-tried-it-themselves/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/05/24/a-majorit...
• koliber 3y ago
  I've recently joined the tech org at a company that grows flowers, at a huge scale. The kinds of tech and product problems that they are dealing with are as far removed from the kinds of problems AI can help with as I can imagine. There may be places where generative AI might be able to optimize some things. This is the real world. Manufacturing. Logistics. Managing people. Building tools for streamlining one tiny part of a workflow and getting people to use them effectively. This latest client has opened up my eyes to the fact that I've been living in a bubble. I could not be more glad, as I was beginning to suspect that OpenAI is taking over the world.
• jaimex2 3y ago
  If there's a South Park episode on it then no.
• viraptor 3y ago
  Not sure if tech, but some kind of echo chamber. I've introduced ChatGPT to multiple people in both tech and not; they all ended up actually using it and getting some benefit out of it. Then became actively interested in the topic. (they initiated conversations about it later on) So, are LLMs as popular outside of HN and similar communities - no. Are people outside of them interested - definitely yes.
• chaosbolt 3y ago
  Hacker News is the real echo chamber, color me surprised that using the same system of posts and comments that turned Reddit into the ** show that it's today would also turn HN into the same thing. People who aren't in tech or aren't informed don't know about the latest development in tech, same reason you don't know about the latest development in healthcare or construction... But, and I'll only speak for myself, GPT allowed me to add more features to my side project in 2 months than I did in 3 years... If you know how to use it then it becomes a great tool, the 16k context 3.5 or the 32k tokens context in GPT 4 (when necessary because expensive) are really good and can do a lot and infer context and assume things about your project etc. You shouldn't be a contrarian to be a contrarian, same thing happened with the blockchain, HN is still shitting on it in 2023 but I just transfered some crypto to my sister in another country instantly, where if I had to do it using the usual financial system it'll involve a lot more headache and will usually take a couple days... and all of this on the ethereum proof of stake blockchain aka not as power hungry as it was, this is objective value it adds. Now the contrarians usually see posts written by 90 IQ "journalists" (bots) that say "AI will make humans irrelevant" or "blockchain will kill all banks" and they start responding against this but also miss the actual value these things add, of course chatGPT will not build you a house that's obvious and only another bot would argue for and against it, but it can help you become a lot more efficient.
• sensanaty 3y ago
  Definitely. The tech is impressive but anyone I've spoken to thinks of it as Cleverbot 2.0, and among the more technically minded I've found that people mostly are indifferent. Hell, IRL most people I know don't think much of it, though on HN and elsewhere online I see a lot of people praising it as the next coming of Christ (this thread included) which puts it in a similar tier as crypto and other Web3 hypetrains as far as I'm concerned. Every "AI" related business idea I've seen prop up recently is people just hooking up a textbox to ChatGPT's API and pretending they're doing something novel or impressive, presumably to cash in on VC money ASAP. The Notion AI is an absolute fucking joke of epic proportions in its uselessness yet they keep pushing it in every newsletter And a funny personal anecdote, a colleague of mine tried to use ChatGPT4 when answering a customer question (they work support). The customer instantly knew it was AI-generated and was quite pissed about it, so the support team has an unofficial rule to not do that any more.
  • digitalsushi 3y ago
    Many people lose their incredulity once more than a few sentences have been read. By the time someone has read a second paragraph, they have internalized what was at the beginning, and to be told that those two paragraphs were fiction is now to attack the reader instead of the text. As though reading were so laborious, there's a sunk cost fallacy.
    • throwuwu 3y ago
      wtf? Who is this true for?
  • RayVR 3y ago
    I think there’s a meaningful difference between sota LLM tech and crypto. I’ve not yet seen a real problem which was better solved by crypto beyond just being not official money. I’ve already used the openai api to automate several genuinely difficult things for myself. Mostly acting as a translator from natural language to structured output. I do agree it is massively overhyped and there will be an inevitable sentiment correction.
• SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
  anyone who believes that "AI" (meaning current, ChatGPT level tech and the next iteration of it) is a bigger threat to humanity than climate change, because of some "Skynet, rise of the machines" scenario nonsense, is 100% inside an AI echo chamber.
  • deadlast2 3y ago
    Maybe there are multiple echo chambers, left, right climate change, ai doom, crypto... we tend to gravitate towards these because we like to get opinions that closely match our current one.
    • SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
      To an extent, yes. But. The suggestion that "all echo chambers are as bad as each other" isn't warranted, this is the "bothsidesism" fallacy (1) That's why you'd look at if their predictions are grounded in reality, or are spinning wild "what if" scenarios, or are concentrating on culture war alarmism about not-particularly salient threats, or promoting a scheme that makes them money. Finally, look at the track record of the people making the claims. How did their previous claims work out? 1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_balance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_balance
• analog31 3y ago
  What I've noticed is that interest in ChatGPT is spotty. Within any given discipline, some people are excited, and are using it. Others are ambivalent. I don't think either group of people are getting more stuff done, discovering more useful things, etc. I don't think this is unusual. Adoption of iPhones and GUI-based computers was that way too. People who had those things were by definition more active on them, but not necessarily getting more done. There could be some self selection going on here. Someone who was really fluent at the old way might not see such a boon from the new way. I confess to being among the ambivalent, but I see it being used around me, chatted with people about it etc., so I'm not ignorant about it.
• BizarreByte 3y ago
  Yes we are and nearly everyone is convinced it'll change the world, but they're simply guessing. None of us know how this will, or won't play out. Personally? I think we're sleep walking into social disaster and this tech is only going to make people's lives more difficult.
• Xenoamorphous 3y ago
  I think your friend doesn’t consume any mass media if he hasn’t heard of ChatGPT. This stuff is everywhere, not just tech circles.
• brigadier132 3y ago
  Here is the question, it took 5 years from the "Attention is all you need" paper for us to get GPT-4. I've been using GPT-4 api for generating structured content. Right now it's a pain but you can get it to work with some effort. Do you think this doesn't get 100% better in the next few years with the billions of dollars that are pouring in? Because a GPT-4 that is 100% better at generating useful content is a game changer. Now what if instead of a 2x improvement we see a 3,4,5 or even 10x improvement in the ability of the technology? All the people comparing the hype around AI with crypto have good pattern matching without any judgement. I personally never got into crypto. I'm very into AI.
• iso1631 3y ago
  > he hadn’t even heard of ChatGPT Practically every mainstream comedy show I hear in the UK mentions chatgpt, it's been constantly in the news over the last 6 months. Every high school child knows how to use it, hell there was a south park episode a couple of months about chatgpt written by chatgpt. This isn't niche stuff.
• SanderNL 3y ago
  Yes. I think we just witnessed something akin to the birth of personal computers which puts us around the ‘60-‘70s. It’ll take a while to (vastly) improve and eventually disseminate into society. I’d say a decade at least. A lot of the surrounding “infrastructure” is still missing, like in the olden days. Techies are scarce and needed for other things. Energy and thus compute is expensive and society still has some important open questions left to answer about its own stability if it wants to survive this next wave of evolution.
  • thaw13579 3y ago
    Today’s LLMs like ChatGPT also might seem like mainframe computers compared to the personalized and locally-run models that are likely in the future.
• FrustratedMonky 3y ago
  Yes for now. But that doesn't mean it isn't mind blowing. There is always a bubble. It is just that things moving so fast in the bubble this time, that it seems strange. There is always some lag before new tech diffuses out to rest of industries and public.
• champagnepapi 3y ago
  Here is some data from not too long ago https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/05/24/a-majority-of-americans-have-heard-of-chatgpt-but-few-have-tried-it-themselves/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/05/24/a-majorit...
• _jnc 3y ago
  My experience has been that most people have not heard of it, most people that have heard of it have not tried it meaningfully, and most people who tried it meaningfully did not unlock massive productivity gains yet.
• Dalewyn 3y ago
  Yes.
• unsigner 3y ago
  Teachers around me are freaked out about the end of homeworks, they can't stop talking about it. And their students anywhere between 8 and 18 are generating all assignments they can using ChatGPT (and then manually or DeepL-translating into our native language, which is not English and for which ChatGPT is still ridiculously funny). So it's not just tech.
  • jes5199 3y ago
    homework never had much value, anyway, it’s nice to see students fighting back
    • unsigner 3y ago
      Hard disagree on that, at least in the educational system I'm familiar with. The meagre time allocated in school schedules allows the teachers to barely introduce the students to concepts and techniques, and actual skill needs to be developed on your own. (I can agree with a weaker version of that statement: homework that can be done by ChatGPT doesn't have any value and should be done away with.)
      • kjkjadksj 3y ago
        You don’t need homework to do that. I took classes in college where your entire grade was the sum of the two midterms and final. It worked great. No homework, so I was able to study in a way that worked for me.
• jasonlotito 3y ago
  No. Technically, the answer is yes and no, but with the context here, no, we aren't in an echo chamber. People who are not in tech are routinely using ChatGPT and AI functionality. I know this because people who I know aren't in tech have told me how they are using it, and how many other people in their industry are using it. The key here is what industry are they in, and can they make use of what ChatGPT provides. And it's not just ChatGPT, but AI stuff in general. The difference between this and crypto and web3 is that crypto and web3 required a LOT of explaining on how it could be useful. AI didn't, and simply said here is the input, and here is the output. That's it. They didn't suggest value. The value was easily apparent. It was tangible. Something that was real. Does this mean every industry is talking about AI? I'm sure the answer is no. But every industry has it's own echo chamber. That's immaterial.
• dangoodmanUT 3y ago
  Sure feels like it. I've started marking most AI tweets as "Not interested". ESPECIALLY anything that is anything analagous to "ChatGPT has a huge problem... bard/claude/blah" or some thread boi like that.
• lacrimacida 3y ago
  When it comes to content generation I think chatGpt is a gamechanger, more and more publications will convert most of their stuff into LLMs. It’s quite terrible for the consumer in the long term. For example I was reading news a few days about National Geographic gutting their writer staff. Get ready for a lot of mindless content sometimes vetted by humans, sometimes not.. This will affect us all, in tech or outside tech.
  • keiferski 3y ago
    Just as companies use layoffs at other companies as a smokescreen to do their own layoffs, "we're using AI" has become an excuse to cut back on expensive writers. In fact, I'd bet that the opposite will happen WRT AI-generated content: individual writers with personality will become even more in-demand. ChatGPT isn't going to fake a "personality" anytime soon.
    • xena 3y ago
      Yeah, as a professional writer that is somewhat acclaimed (my domain has a lot of karma here) I'm not worried about ChatGPT. It's going to be a rough transition, but I feel that my genuinely having the skills not only means I can use the tools better (ex: I have a conversation snippet character that is a container for LLM generated stuff), but also use them for the really important things: LinkedIn post writing. It works so well at LinkedIn posts, which is really sad. https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7080465855016271872/ https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7080465...
      • lacrimacida 3y ago
        The expectation on what you produce will change though, there will be pressure to create more for less. Not saying all content creators will lose their jobs, but many will and the remaining will have to do more work. Oh well, with the provided tools, but still…
    • rchaud 3y ago
      > individual writers with personality will become even more in-demand. The demand may be there, but discoverability will be very difficult with so many people already in that arena. The Awl and Splinter News was an online publication made up of ex-Gawker people, exactly the kind of independent voice you'd think people would want to read. And they did, just not in enough volume for those sites to ever make money. And now they're both dead.
• nailer 3y ago
  As an AI language model, I don't have an opinion on whether people on tech are inside an AI echo chamber.
• spaceman_2020 3y ago
  Unless your work involves coding or digital content creation, there doesn’t seem to be a lot of real world utility for the tech right now.
• mensetmanusman 3y ago
  Just met a rando marketing college student and she was using 3.5 for business homework. Wouldn't have been someone I expected to be an early adopter. Also the high school student I am mentoring has told me that he knows people feeding chat gpt their essay writing styles and asking it to write about other topics with the same style. This is in the Midwest.
  • mrAssHat 3y ago
    What's unexpected here? Marketing is a discipline about bullshitting people into overpaying for products and services. This discipline about bullshitting people does itself consist mostly of bullshit being poorly taught by outdated teachers on outdated courses. That's pretty common among students to bullshit their clueless dinosaur kind of a teacher with modern technologies that make look bullshit seem legit.
• chrischattin 3y ago
  Yes. It’s cool. But, it’s hardly revolutionary. They built a Siri that doesn’t suck. It has the potential to be a Google killer as it’s much more effective at sussing out specific information. But, the ideological guard rails OpenAI insist upon are super annoying. You can never fully trust that you’re getting a non-politically biased output.
• digitcatphd 3y ago
  This just happened to me. I was explaining it and I am starting to feel like a crazy conspiracy theorist and AI doomer when I explain how it can more or less write and script and solve any problem. Then I see how people use it, and they can barely articulate elementary concepts, let alone break them down or solve them. I feel like being able to use GPT right now requires an ability to do this, which is probably why. Let alone most people aren't even using GPT4. They type in some barely coherent instructions to GPT 3 and then dismiss it as hogwash.
• janandonly 3y ago
  Depends. Yesterday I was having a drink with some friends, one of whom is like me in tech. The others in shipping, finance and sales. They all had experimented with ChatGPT and/or Midjourney.
• NikolaNovak 3y ago
  All you can get in a survey like this is anecdotes and opinions. This may be sufficient for your purposes - here's my story:-) My sister is not technically minded. She has used chatgpt to create a request for permit for a backyard deck to city Hall, a letter to her boss requesting attendance to a conference, and her performance reviews. Another non techie and I use chatgpt to help us learn French and music theory. My mother in law uses it to create funny rhyming stories for kids. Meanwhile the techie friends of mine are... Completely ignoring it. My two best friends are vmware senior architect and a Java developer / tech manager, and I've been urging them for months to try it. So I personally live in a completely opposite situation to that which you describe :-). Techie are skeptical of the toy, and endlessly discuss it's limitations and impact. Non Techies are just using it as a tool.
  • rideontime 3y ago
    How do you know that the French and music theory it’s teaching you is correct?
    • educaysean 3y ago
      Would your question change if the tutor was a person? How do you know if anything anyone teaches you is correct?
      • justsocrateasin 3y ago
        Humans are likely to share when they don't know something or to express concern when they aren't positive what they're is correct. LLMs are confident 100% of the time and don't understand when they're wrong. I get what you're trying to say but I don't think this is an instructive example.
        • joshstrange 3y ago
          > Humans are likely to share when they don't know something or to express concern when they aren't positive what they're is correct. We must have met very different humans. Are there humans that do that this? Absolutely! Are they in the majority? Absolutely not. Now if you change that framing to "teachers" then I think on average you are going to get more people like that but I've heard many many people say things with complete confidence/certainty that was absolutely wrong. Then again, I've had teachers that have made predictions/statements that they state as facts so I don't know. Dunning-Kruger can account for part of it but still.
• oldandboring 3y ago
  Big mixed bag for me: * All the techies I know have heard about and used it, and most have a healthy dose of skepticism paired with some optimism that it can be used to help solve some previously hard to solve problems. This alone, I think, makes it clear that LLM has staying power in a way that blockchain did not: obvious use cases. * The normies in my life run the whole spectrum from "never heard of it" to "use it at least sometimes." One interesting subset are the folks who have heard a LOT about it but haven't used it. My lawyer said he had already attended panel discussions about the ethical implications of AI usage in law. I asked if he had USED ChatGPT and he said no; I had to direct him to the URL and walk him through signing up so he could see it for himself. And he's pretty tech-saavy as non-techies go. Burying the lede, now. Here is my unpopular opinion: there is an outsized "wow factor" when you specifically use ChatGPT because of the fact that it outputs the text seemingly in real-time. It makes it look like it's thinking/talking and viscerally our minds are blown. Bing and Bard generate the response in the background and output it all at once like a search result, doesn't hit the same way.
• TulliusCicero 3y ago
  No, there's plenty of criticism or skepticism of AI models from within the techie sphere. An echo chamber would mean everyone having the same opinions, and that's not the case here, at least speaking to tech people broadly.
• cloudking 3y ago
  For sure, I've had discussions from "using it every day" (techies) to "never heard of it" (non-techies). For my own experience I use it every day, but the only thing it really solves is saving me time. I've seen lots of neat demos, hacks, agents etc and still haven't figured out what business problem LLMs solve besides time-saving.
• andai 3y ago
  A while back I was meeting nontechnical people in their 50s and 60s and they were all asking me about ChatGPT. I asked if they tried it. "No." --"You know it's free, right?" "Yes." I found this inexplicable and infuriating. Perhaps someone can shed light on the psychology of such people?
  • billythemaniam 3y ago
    Because they are simply not that interested in trying the new thing. I will drink craft beer, but if someone invented the most amazing craft beer ever, I wouldn't go out of my way to try it even if it was free. I just don't care that much about craft beer. Different people are interested in different things...and that is okay.
  • fknorangesite 3y ago
    They were curious enough to ask you about it, to make conversation, but without a specific use or utility in mind hadn't (yet?) bothered. Why did you find this infuriating? There's only so much time in the day; different people have different priorities.
    • andai 3y ago
      Same energy as when someone asks me to Google something for them.
  • EricMausler 3y ago
    1) they know it's not a 5 minute thing 2) everything is still moving fast. Unless they plan to keep up with it, they may be planning to look into it later after the dust settles a bit 3) their time is already budgeted and it isn't clear what they should skip / cancel to look into it 4) they aren't sure exactly where to start and so they procrastinate. No trusted source has sent them a link to try, they don't want to sift through search results and potential scams, they don't want to make an account, etc
• lucideer 3y ago
  > we’re all quite aware that AI will play an increasing role in our lives (in & out of the office), but maybe AI mainstream adoption will take longer than we anticipate. What do you think? Sadly I think you've contradicted yourself a small bit here, while also stumbling across the exact reason AI mainstream adoption will go quicker than anticipated: it'll happen without mainstream awareness. I work in a security role and we're currently trying to do risk assessments of AI adoption by tech workers, and integration of AI APIs/services into our products, and it's not even a case of "how bad will it be", it's much more "how bad is it". AI is being used a lot by individuals in the workplace with very little discourse or auditing of that usage. Even outside of tech, someone somewhere in it administration was already seeing enough daily AI usage to warrant the drafting of this official guidance, for quite a non-tech-industry audience: https://twitter.com/marcidale/status/1645972869393047552 https://twitter.com/marcidale/status/1645972869393047552
• deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
• bilsbie 3y ago
  I can’t figure out exactly why the hype wore off for me. It’s now just another tool in life’s toolbox.
• surume 3y ago
  That is entirely besides the point. If you can export a UI with defined behaviors from Figma to React / NextJS, and AI can figure out how to code it, then Front End Developers become a thing of the past. If there's a similar modelling tool for Back End and AI can code the exported design, then BE devs become obsolete. It is irrelevant if lay people have heard of it or not - we're still out of a job.
• browningstreet 3y ago
  AI summarizes and listicles pretty well. I use it all day long. I’m not sure “a few people I’ve talked to have never heard about it” is any stronger a barometer of anything than the hype ChatGPT has right now. I do think the integrations available in many of the tools I encounter is probably a better signal of potential and impact. We are in year one. I suspect LLMs will continue to evolve and still have market legs in a decade.
• Forgeties79 3y ago
  Honestly, I’m a little surprised to see this! I’m not a “coder” and adjacent like most of the folks I see on HN. I work in video production. My In-laws talk about chatGPT (lawyer and store owner) my parents (doctors) ask me about ChatGPT, my colleagues ask me about it re: its impact on film production, my siblings talk about it. Hell the WGA is talking about chatGPT as part of the strike. Again, I obviously have my own little social bubble of somewhat like-minded people, but I feel like I’m talking about AI and ChatGPT every other day. I see articles on main stream publications at least weekly. It’s basically as well known as Bitcoin - if not more so - as far as I can tell. Very surprising to me this person still hasn’t heard about it!
• 23B1 3y ago
  I'd argue that AI insiders are also out of touch with the wider world and are missing opportunities to develop tools that'd be useful for everyone. For instance, hallucinations. They're a function of LLMs. But they're also something that everyday people have to deal with from each other in the miasma of the post-truth world. What an opportunity, within the artificial intelligence field, to think of these tools not just as automation and fact-finding, but teaching how to avoid hallucinations in your own life? Personal finance Grammar, rhetoric, logic, reason Information literacy Media literacy The list goes on...
  • smt88 3y ago
    LLMs are not an opportunity to teach humans how to avoid hallucinations because they don't work even the slightest bit like human brains and we don't even know how to make them stop hallucinating in the first place.
    • 23B1 3y ago
      Ahh but we known that both humans and LLMs 'hallucinate'. The study of the latter potentially provides insight to former; after all, isn't the core question we're asking in all of these discussions is 'what is intelligence?'
      • smt88 3y ago
        > The study of the latter potentially provides insight to former It absolutely does not. Using the term "hallucinate" for LLMs has nothing to do with the underlying cause or process. It's a metaphor that I feel was specifically chosen by the AI industry to avoid terms like "lying" or "making a mistake". LLMs hallucinate because they're next-word prediction engines, not logical engines. They have no conceptual understanding, which is why their hallucinations range from small factual errors to bizarre lies that are obviously false. Humans hallucinate because our brains are reality-simulation engines that evolved to model the perception of events that aren't currently happening (remembering the past, imagining the future, etc.) and sometimes we lose our autonomy over our brains. The underlying process has nothing to do with predicting the next word we're going to say. In fact, there's an even more fundamental difference: human hallucinations aren't necessarily tied to speech. We have thoughts that don't require output. There's nothing in LLMs that doesn't "come out" as output.
• eterevsky 3y ago
  > maybe AI mainstream adoption will take longer than we anticipate I would say it will mostly depend not on the public hype around it but on the pace at which it will acquire capabilities. If it stays at GPT 4 level, it will be gradually used to automate various tasks over the years. If on the other hand it keeps the progression GPT 2 -> 3 -> 4, then by the time we are at GPT 6, it will be able to easily replace a wide range of jobs.
• comechao 3y ago
  I have noticed some non-tech individuals, such as lawyers, are utilizing ChatGPT. Even my mother asks me to use ChatGPT for her business, and my girlfriend loves it as well.
• kyledrake 3y ago
  People outside the bubble aren't declaring AI to be literally as dangerous as nuclear weapons and I think anyone that thinks this with any gravity needs to take a very deep time out to step out of the bubble, calm down and think about their thought processes. The "AI is as dangerous as nuclear weapons" petition from the tech scene was ridiculous and frankly kind of embarrassing. I wrote up my thoughts about it last month https://kyledrake.com/writings/ai https://kyledrake.com/writings/ai Christopher Nolan just finished a movie profile of J Robert Oppenheimer, has presumably spent a lot of time thinking about nuclear weapons, and has similar lesser-concerns about AI https://www.wired.com/story/christopher-nolan-oppenheimer-ai-apocalypse/ https://www.wired.com/story/christopher-nolan-oppenheimer-ai...
• wincy 3y ago
  Maybe? My wife has been using it to give her recipe ideas. She can’t eat onions and things with sulfites so it’s super user for filtering out ingredients that would make her sick without having to comb over a list. So far the recipes have been pretty good!
• mission_failed 3y ago
  Tech people have an unhealthy obsession with trying to create tech to replace non-tech jobs, without any care as to the impacts on society. Chat and image AI generation is just another example of tech screwing over other people.
• ekojs 3y ago
  Definitely mixed opinions in this discussion. I am actually curious whether the hard skeptics in the tech circle actually gave ChatGPT and other tools a fair shot. I was into AI/DL before the rise of ChatGPT and thought that it's way overhyped and too unreliable at first, that meant I only played with several toy examples. Across the last few months though, I have increasingly found greater uses for LLMs. Not saying that it's still not overhyped, but maybe the AI skeptics among the tech community are in their own echo chamber too?
• lolinder 3y ago
  YouGov did a poll[0] of 1500 US adult citizens, and it reflects what a lot of people in this thread have said anecdotally. 43% say they have never used AI tools, with only 24% reporting they "very often" or "somewhat often" use them. Interestingly, there's a big age component in this poll, and rather than being a smooth grade like most tech, there's a very strong divide at 45yo—those younger than 45 are over 4x as likely to report they often use AI tools than those over 45. https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/ifywkae5dt/econTabReport.pdf#page=103 https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/ifywkae5dt/econTabReport.pdf#pag...
• samhuk 3y ago
  I whole-heartedly disagree, but on a more technical note: "echo chamber" is a pajorative that implies a bunch of people "sniffing their own farts and enjoying it" - more accurately, a group of people believing in a false because of groupthink. To expand and to tell of a very recent story: For work I used ChatGPT to help me write a 500 line bash script to automate a bunch of stuff. It took me around 1 day versus the 5 it would have taken me if I would go the google/ddg/stack overflow route of slowly crawling through outdated content and SEO noise to find the signals. It worked, completely! Solely from that experience, I'm convinced that it's not just farts and kool-aid. To go one step further, even, i'de say that anybody who doesn't at least have a cursory awareness or AI is in fact the one in the "echo chamber", isolated from the possible. It's not the do-all solution, of course, but in certain scenarios, it's quite obviously, trivially demonstrably, revolutionary.
• rossdavidh 3y ago
  In the late 90's I got a Master's degree, specializing in neural networks. This caused me to learn about the hype cycle in AI, and since then I have seen it continue. Remember Watson, IBM's AI technology that was going to drive its growth? IBM got lots of press by making computers that could play chess and Jeopardy, which seemed impressive to people at the time, but they never found a way to make money from it. "AI winter" is the term for the trough of the AI hype cycle. Note that every "AI summer" prior to this one has produced something useful, just never all that world-changing compared to people's expectations. Most people think that if it can BS (excuse me, generate convincing text), then it can do lots of other jobs. Well, in previous AI summers, people thought that if it can play chess, or answer Jeopardy questions, it could do many other things that it turned out, it could not do (or could not do well enough). For that matter, the ability to do math, at one time, was thought of as a sign of great intelligence. But, it turned out that computers could do math, long before they could do anything else. Our intuition about, "if it can do this, soon it will be able to do that", is not very good. I have heard ChatGPT described as a better autosuggest, which sounds about right. It's not that autosuggest isn't useful, it can be very useful, but it's not a thing that is going to change the world, and the jobs which it will automate are neither numerous, nor very well paid even now. If you're trying to pump that VC hype machine for $$, though, cryptocurrency is not going to work anymore, so they need something.
  • formulatwo 3y ago
    I think there have been so many hyped up stuff in the tech world that it's trained a lot of people to point at everything and call it part of the hype cycle. But this causes people to literally fail to notice that there are many things in tech that Aren't just hype. I mean literally think about it, the internet wasn't just hype, the smart phone wasn't just hype. There's millions of things that weren't just hype. >I have heard ChatGPT described as a better autosuggest, which sounds about right. It's not that autosuggest isn't useful, it can be very useful, but it's not a thing that is going to change the world, and the jobs which it will automate are neither numerous, nor very well paid even now. This is a poor characterization. chatGPT has the capability of answering extremely complex questions with novel answers that are completely indistinguishable from human answers. And remember much of these answers are novel, meaning that it wasn't just a copy of the answer out of nowhere. There are of course huge problems with our ability to control chatGPT to give us the correct answers consistently but the fact that it can even do the above 50% of the time is a feat that moves the needle far beyond a mere "auto suggest". All you need to do is increase that 50% rate and suddenly it can auto suggest you out of an entire career. Cross your fingers and hope token prediction is just a technological dead end and that we can't really raise the correctness rate past 50%. In many instances of project development getting to 50% is often the hard part and getting to 100% could be easier.
• archsurface 3y ago
  Not just an echo chamber - it's something to sell. Whether or not it measures up to the hype doesn't matter once you've been paid for it. This is not the first buzzword from tech, and won't be the last. The finance industry is another example of an industry that will jump on a buzzword to sell - currently also AI.
• nurettin 3y ago
  > He’s a millennial & a white collar worker and smart If I have to anthropomorphise the gpt3.5 prompt, "it" is an average intelligence intern who can only google up to 31st of march 2021 and has several insecurities and character flaws. It is unable to follow a plan, needs guidance at every step, needs to repeat itself constantly and sometimes makes things up as it goes.
• cardosof 3y ago
  People don't see it being this revolutionary because they don't know how to use it. My wife (literary translator) my close friends (2 doctors and one business executive) and myself are seeing massive gains in productivity by using simple prompt techniques such as chain-of-thought. Heck, my cardiologist friend from one of the country's top hospitals is writing a book with chatgpt. It's there and it's great, and will only get easier to use, smarter, faster etc.
• wslh 3y ago
  My personal experience is that anyone here in Argentina knows about ChatGPT: from kindergarten to retired people. Argentina is far from SV.
• dboreham 3y ago
  It's the opposite in my experience: people inside tech are (probably rightly) skeptical, making comments about "Eliza 2.0", meanwhile I am listening to car podcasts where the people are using ChatGPT to write valentines cards for their wives...
  • butler14 3y ago
    My dog walker - a man with a fairly troubled life and very low levels of literacy - used it to write product descriptions for an eCommerce website he's in the process of launching. Part of me thinks the tech echo chamber is working the other way around here: a lot of techies who just know and and talk to other techies are all in a bubble thinking it's all overhyped blahablhabah without stepping back and thinking how it can enable every day people (whatever that means) to do things they previously could not -- at speed.
• laeri 3y ago
  I hear people about it talking everywhere. Students that use it to write some work or learn for exams. Colleagues that use it for generating code examples for specific things. Someone from HR writing text. This is definitely not an echo chamber as many people know about it and are using it in some kind or other or are at least curious.
• formulatwo 3y ago
  No it's not an echo chamber. There are certainly people who aren't up to date with it but the entire world, in general, knows what's going on. The echo chamber in tech is people thinking they're in an echo chamber. I mean come on, 90% of people in tech have never built an LLM in their lives they just read some laymans article on it like everyone else and harp on how it's not an AI and it's just a "token predictor" and other generic arguments like that. What I'm saying is that MOST people in tech don't do AI and therefore their perspective on LLMs is equivalent to someone completely outside of tech. Every typical software engineer thinks because they took a small course on ML or they read a little bit about chatGPT and that puts them on a pedestal above an average non-tech worker... well I hate to break it to you, the non-tech worker can look up those articles too. They can also play with chatGPT extensively which doesn't require any tech skills and they can literally see for themselves what a game changer the technology is.
• healthyusa 3y ago
  I’m in the middle of Guatemala. The owner of the hotel is using GPT-4 to build out his marketing plan. Some people get it, some people don’t. And that’s OK by me.
• exegete 3y ago
  At work some folks are obsessed with LLM’s but yet we’ve ignored deep learning for years. There may be some applications for LLM’s but as another commenter said it will likely be calling some LLM as an API. At some point once we’re doing that the hype will die down some. Some family have heard of ChatGPT and have misunderstood what it can do, so I’ve had fun showing them the limitations of it.
• jes5199 3y ago
  I think of GPT as a new UI paradigm. It was not obvious why the world needed GUIs, or touchscreens, but they took over pretty quickly. Conversational interfaces could disrupt them both.
• weird-eye-issue 3y ago
  No. I have an AI startup with thousands of active paying monthly users and they are all marketing people and not highly technical
• bane 3y ago
  I think it's worse than that, it's a bubble. There I've said it. So much money is being poured into AI right now, and things are changing so fast, and products are being deployed, then matched, then overrun weekly, all with no regard to the law, safety, understanding any of the tech that's just been built, or even building a real business around it that it's become absolute nonsense right now. Two anecdotes: 1. I saw a posting for a prompt engineer which had virtually no requirements beyond some passing familiarity with LLMs, who's job it was to think up clever prompts and archive them in a library. Salary - $350k+ 2. I heard a real conversation between two highly trained technical folks around using an LLM to do a simple data transform from one wire format to another. Yes, let's use a cluster of GPUs and some faulty hacked together prompt to transform a well written structured format to another at speeds that approach molasses. Nobody had a clue as to how much the runtime costs of this would be. The solution to it being slow? Add more clusters. -- absolute idiocy. We're burning money on this stuff like it's mid-80s Japan spending money on slightly different variations of pocket calculators and American real-estate. Meanwhile we're exploiting Kenyan workers to some of the worst filth humanity can produce in an effort to keep one of these AIs of producing child gore porn because it's illegal to pay first world people $2/hr to do the same job -- and there's not a psychotherapist to be found anywhere in the chain. And then it's being pushed at the regular consumer as if it's some kind of knowledge oracle to replace the "horrors" of the search box that: a) won't only know what the state of the world was when it was trained 2 years ago b) won't produce a worthless hallucinated answer that could send somebody off to take a poison for a cold This shit is terrible and I just used it to give me advice on updating my resume a few weeks ago for a job in the field. Fuck it.
  • A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago
    << heard a real conversation between two highly trained technical folks around using an LLM to do a simple data transform from one wire format to another. Yes, let's use a cluster of GPUs and some faulty hacked together prompt to transform a well written structured format to another at speeds that approach molasses. Nobody had a clue as to how much the runtime costs of this would be. The solution to it being slow? Add more clusters. -- absolute idiocy. I.. can totally hear it in my mind.. including ISO20022 requirements happy talk. My initial take to the posed question that it isn't just tech. Business orgs appear to be jumping in with both feet ( thankfully, my little corner of the universe seems more conservative for now ). Still, it does not disprove your statement that we are in a heavy hype train now. edit: I do take issue with wire format being well written ( or structured ) at this point. There is a reason SWIFT had to back down a little on the aggressive timeline for example.
• MarcScott 3y ago
  I was speaking to a gym buddy the other day, and she said she was looking into ChatGPT as she was a copy writer and was aware that her job might be at risk within the next few years. I talked to her about prompt engineering for a little, but not sure that I really got through what I was talking about.
• ericol 3y ago
  I wouldn't say it's an echo chamber. I'd say it's a bubble (But without the negative connotations). This tech is in its infancy, and the whole "prompt engineering" thing even though fun and all, will eventually be unnecessary, and _then_ it'll be widespread. I've even spoke to friends IN the tech industry that are not using it, at least not to the extent of a lot of people is using it. And even I am not using it as much as I would like, but then I don't have enough free time. All in all, just give it time. In my case, I hardly use Google these days.
• jacquesm 3y ago
  If the jump between ChatGPT '5' and 4 is as big as between 3.5 and 4 then we're not in an echo chamber, we're in trouble. If the gap is smaller then they are running out of steam and we'll be fine.
  • davewritescode 3y ago
    I don’t think it will be if history is any precedent. Look at self driving in the mid late 2010s, the rate of advancement lead some otherwise smart people to make big bets that autonomous cars were right around the corner and we were going to be driven around by robots any by 2022. We’re at the early phase of AI, it demos well but seems to break down in ways that seem obvious in the real world. We’re at the limit of how big the models we can train now. GPT4 has been described as 8 GPTs in a trench coat by George Hotz which was later confirmed by the founder of PyTorch. I’m not saying we have nothing to worry about, just that the hype seems to overtake reality early in the adoption cycle. GPT4 is like an unreliable but brilliant employee.
• somedudetbh 3y ago
  > but maybe AI mainstream adoption will take longer than we anticipate. Here's how the adoption of this technology is going to go (this is the way all AI technology adoption has gone for 60 years): 1) Papers will come out showing how by creating a more effective way to leverage compute + data to make a system self-improving, performance at some task looks way better than previous AI systems, almost human-like. (This already happened: "All You Need Is Attention") 2) The first generally available implementations of the technology, in a pretty raw form, will be released. People will be completely amazed at how this machine can do something that was thought to be a hallmark of humans! And by just doing $SIMPLE_THING (search, token prediction) which isn't "really" "thinking"! (This will amaze some people but also form the basis of a lot of negative commentary) (Also already happened: ChaGPT, etc) 3) There will be a huge influx of speculative investment capital into the space and a bunch of startups will appear to take advantage of this. At the same time, big old tech companies will start putting stickers on their existing products that say they're powered by LLMs. (Also already happened) 4) There will be a wave of press, first in the academia, then in technology circles, then in the mainstream, about What This Means. "AGI" is just over the horizon, all human jobs are about to be gone, society totally transformed. (We are currently here at step 4) 5) After a while, the limits of the technology will start to become clear. A lot of the startups will figure out that they don't really have a business, but a few will be massively successful and either build real ongoing businesses that use LLMs to solve problems for people, or get acquired. It will turn out that LLMs are massively, massively useful for some previously-thought-to-be-nearly-impossible or at least contigent on solving the general AI problem work: something like intent extraction, grammarly-type writing assistants, Intellisense on steroids, building natural chat interfaces to APIs in products like Siri or Alexa that understand "turn on the light" and "turn on the lights" mean the same thing. I have no idea what the things will actually be, if I was good at that sort of thing I'd be rich. 6) There will be a bunch of "LLMs are useless!" press. Because LLMs don't have Rosie-from-the-Jetsons level of human-like intelligence, they will be considered "a failure" for the general AI problem. Once people get accustomed to whatever the actual completely amazing things LLMs get used for, things that seemed "impossible" in 2021. Startups will fail. Enrollments in AI courses in school will drop, VCs will pull back from the category, AI in general (not just LLMs) will be considered a doomed investment category for a few years. This entire time, LLMs will be used every day by huge numbers of people to do super helpful things. But it will turn out that no one wants to see a movie where the screenplay is written by AI. The LLM won't be able to drive a car. All the media websites that are spending money to have LLMs write articles will find out that LLM-generated content is a completely terrible way to get people to come to your site, read some stuff and look at ads, with terrible economics, and these people will lose at least hundreds of millions of dollars, probably low billions, collectively. 7) At this trough point where LLMs have "failed" and AI as a sector is toxic to VCs, what LLMs do will somehow be thought of as 'not AI'. "It's just predicting the next token" or something will become the accepted common thinking that disqualifies it as 'Artificial Intelligence'. LLMs and LLM engineering will be considered useful and necessary, but it will be considered a part of mainstream software engineering and not really 'AI' per se. People will generally forget that whatever workaday things LLMs turn into a trivial service call or library function, used to be massively difficult problems that people thought would require human-like general intelligence to solve (for instance, making an Alexa-like voice assistant that, can tell 'hey can you kill the lights', 'yo shutoff the overhead light please?', 'alright shut the lights', 'close the light' all mean the same thing). This will happen really fast. https://xkcd.com/1425/ https://xkcd.com/1425/ Sometimes when you see an amazing magic show, if you later learn how the trick was done, it seems a lot less 'magical'. Most magic tricks exploit weird human perceptual phenomena and, most of all, the magicians willingness to master incredibly tedious technique and do incredibly tedious work. Even though we 'know' this at some level when we see magicians perform, it's still deflating to learn the details. For some reason, AI technology is subject to the same phenomenon.
• DeathArrow 3y ago
  >What do you think? I am bored of ChatGPT, AI this, AI that. I scarcely talk about ChatGPT with my peers. While I am certainly interested by AI and even dabbled with it in my MSc years, I found it tiresome to only read about it.
• cranium 3y ago
  Try talking to students and you'll get a different answer. I asked a room of a dozen eighteen years-old if anyone did not use it regularly, and no-one raised their hand. They use it as a better Google to get understandable answers, write prose/code for them, and sometimes even as coach to bounce ideas.
  • deleted 3y ago
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• bobobob420 3y ago
  Comparing AI to Crypto is incredibly stupid. Hackernews getting closer to Reddit every day with the hot takes.
• hotshiitake 3y ago
  I think so. I suspect part of the reason for this is that, for many people, "AI" has become a meaningless marketing buzzword. And companies have been overpromising on the capabilities of their "AI" technology ever since home computers were a thing. So now we actually have something really cool and possibly revolutionary, but no one cares because they are tired of being scammed.
• bannedbybros 3y ago
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• thayne 3y ago
  I've had several non-tech people ask me how ChatGPT has changed my job. To which I answer "it hasn't".
• theknocker 3y ago
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• scyzoryk_xyz 3y ago
  We certainly are, but so is everyone else. To varying degrees. My own personal opinion is that depending on your particular area of expertise, you will have various levels of resolution of knowledge. We might be in an echo chamber on AI here, but many of us aren’t even real specialists on the subject. So, we fall prey to various cognitive biases [1] [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_knowledge https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_knowledge Regarding your friend - a few technological revolutions occurred without the general population really knowing anything about how they work. New tools show up, people use them.
• skyneti 3y ago
  I have talked about it with non it people and they knew about it. Plenty of them. And I showed it to a few and they were immediately impressed by it. I also overheard people talking about it on the street. So in my opinion: no. And chatgpt has over 100 million users. People can use it in bing every day. Adobe added it to their products too. People already benefit from ai. My company is also working on introducing more features it's just the time required to do it.
• lhl 3y ago
  I think it's too easy to fall into the anecdote trap, and I like the comments with study data, like the Pew Research and Line Research (sequential surveys, even better)... I also think adoption will depend on "industry." ChatGPT in education for example: * BestColleges [1] (n=1000) found 43% of college students have used ChatGPT, and 22% have said they used it to help complete assignments or exams. * Study.com [2] (n=1100) had some crazier numbers. "Over 89% of students have used ChatGPT to help with a homework assignment. ... 48% of students admitted to using ChatGPT for an at-home test or quiz, 53% had it write an essay, and 22% had it write an outline for a paper." * Interestingly, in K-12, adoption appears to be higher by teachers than students [3]: "Within two months of its introduction, a 51% majority of teachers reported using ChatGPT, with 40% using it at least once a week, and 53% expecting to use it more this year. Just 22% of students said they use the technology on a weekly basis or more." * In Japan, a recent survey [4] (n=4000) of undergraduate students conducted from Tohoku University showed 32.4% have used ChatGPT. This is compared to about 7% office workers in Japan using ChatGPT on the job [5] (n=13814) in a recent poll by MM Research Institute. Of course, education isn't the only industry with an outsized impact (although it's interesting in the sense that it's a good temperature check for the upcoming generation, especially if it's something that is so prevalent at colleges/universities). But there are other industries as well. a16z Games has been doing a game development survey on Generative AI use in games, and their preliminary results [6] are in-line with my personal experience/view into the game industry - that it has already been completely re-aligning/disrupting the production pipeline: "We heard from 243 game studios - large and small - the results were astonishing ... 87% of studios use an AI tool or model in their studio TODAY. 99% of studios PLAN to use the technology in the future." I think it's worth noting, that while the sources are dodgy, that even if the 100M user number is accurate for ChatGPT, that's only ~2% of global internet users, and <1% of the world population. You could probably confidently say that 99% of the world population has not directly used a generative "AI" product yet (obviously anyone that's used a mobile phone or the internet has been interacting with ML for years). I do think this is going to change very rapidly however, but no matter how fast it goes, it won't be overnight. [1] https://www.bestcolleges.com/research/college-students-ai-tools-survey/ https://www.bestcolleges.com/research/college-students-ai-to... [2] https://study.com/resources/perceptions-of-chatgpt-in-schools https://study.com/resources/perceptions-of-chatgpt-in-school... [3] https://www.waltonfamilyfoundation.org/chatgpt-used-by-teachers-more-than-students-new-survey-from-walton-family-foundation-finds https://www.waltonfamilyfoundation.org/chatgpt-used-by-teach... [4] https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14927968 https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14927968 [5] https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Technology/Use-ChatGPT-at-work-Just-7-do-in-Japan-vs.-half-in-U.S.-survey https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Technology/Use-ChatGPT-at-w... [6] https://www.linkedin.com/posts/troykirwin_ai-x-game-development-survey-2023-activity-7077702488748916736-SgAL https://www.linkedin.com/posts/troykirwin_ai-x-game-developm...
• ulfw 3y ago
  AI is a profound change for how we will live. It's more a socioeconomic change (loss of millions of jobs) than a technological advancement. The worst part is the current state though, where all the crypto hype bros have come out of the woodwork and are rebranding as AI hype bros now. My Linkedin feed is sadly now full of idiots calling themselves "AI Expert" and similar such terms with made up resumes trying to sell their 'expertise'.
• FrustratedMonky 3y ago
  There is a large contingent of the doomsayer on AI, where one of the doom scenarios, is that people don't realize they are being manipulated by AI. So this case where you are talking to people outside the bubble, and they don't realize what is going on, IS THE PROBLEM. Outside the bubble, people will be seeing images, video, text, voice, that is all fake and manipulated, and THEY ARE NOT PAYING ATTENTION, they don't know it is fake. Inside the bubble we are noticing it, outside the bubble, large chunks of population don't know it is happening.
• TideAd 3y ago
  My aunt and uncle, whose main hobbies are drinking beer and watching football, pulled me aside at their daughter's wedding ceremony to tell me how much they love ChatGPT. My friend is a librarian at a high school. She tells me teachers are worried about what ChatGPT means for take-home essays. (I'm guessing 2023 is the year these stop getting assigned) Everyone in the world with internet now has access to a personal research assistant. This thing gives better medical advice than doctors!! Give it 3 years and let's see who hasn't heard of ChatGPT.
• aaron695 3y ago
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• x3874 3y ago
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• JohnFen 3y ago
  Most people outside of tech that I know haven't really heard of ChatGPT aside from in passing in a news piece or something. And those that have heard of it have no idea what it actually is.
• meroes 3y ago
  From the outside, I’ve never seen a smaller professional circle with grander claims. Crypto was more mixed from my recollection, a bit less ivory tower as the tech isn’t that complex, and very prominent people in the tech itself werent so readily making huge claims. I’m seeing tech leaders saying things that make me concerned, like engineers saying Bard was sentient.
• buro9 3y ago
  I see more people outside of tech talking about it than within tech. Within tech the biggest constraint I'm seeing is a failure of our imagination on how this tech could be used, so far we've limited our interactions to that which we've been shown... chat bots, and if that's all we can imagine then this is definitely a hype cycle. But when I speak to those outside of tech, who are not constrained to imagine what they've seen, then I see and hear much different things. It's not the second coming, it's not going to make the whole world redundant, but it is a change and for the most part non-tech people seem more eager to get there. At least, I'm surrounded by positive people who seem to hope that the most mundane aspects of our lives will be replaced by AI and will lead to some qualitative improvement of life (ignoring the cost of living crunch presently hitting most of them).
  • kjkjadksj 3y ago
    The Halo games and lore had a pretty interesting storyline with military AI, some going rogue, others being built to counter the rogue ones. https://www.halopedia.org/Offensive_Bias https://www.halopedia.org/Offensive_Bias
• xhkkffbf 3y ago
  I asked Google's Bard and ChatGPT4.0. They both said, "No. Don't worry." So I'm good.
• n_ary 3y ago
  Disclaimer: Entirely layperson opinion. We already had AI in our daily lives, such as translation, object recognition, voice assistant, spam filter, fraud detection systems and a lot more. Most of these are old and boring and yet deeply embedded in our daily life. The hype bubble is on the new LLM and generative art AI tech, which are backed by a lot of money, so a lot of hype is generated. Without hype, corporations can’t sell us on novelty but once their pockets are filled, they exit and these eventually cool down when something new comes along. However, with each novelty, we are usually left with some bits and pieces of useful residual tech that gives us a little improvement on our daily life, so every hype leaves with something useful.
• zulban 3y ago
  From Pew Research: A majority of Americans have heard of ChatGPT, but few have tried it themselves So yes, your friend is unusual, especially as a millienial where even more have heard of it and used it. When you're asking a statistics question, make sure you cite statistics instead of asking people to write comments from their toilet. Also: "Just 14% of U.S. adults have tried ChatGPT". I think we need to take a step back and consider how much the bar has been raised. "Just" 14% of Americans? This is an incredibly high number. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/05/24/a-majority-of-americans-have-heard-of-chatgpt-but-few-have-tried-it-themselves/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/05/24/a-majorit...
• AzulMarino 3y ago
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• Devasta 3y ago
  Everyone who I have seen speak positively about ChatGPT and the like have all suggested applications that are just awful. It's going to be terrible in a few years time when you try to cancel a subscription or raise a complaint with a company and they throw an AI in front of you. Most call centres are designed to waste your time so you go away, we are going to see impressive new frontiers of absolute bullshit form.
• throwuwu 3y ago
  Proposal: prefix your answer with GPT-3.5 if you’ve only used the free version and GPT-4 if you use the paid version.
• anonyfox 3y ago
  To be honest I am busy with building gpt-powered backoffice tools for data classification, content creation, workflow automations, … to eliminate jobs down the road in my company. It’s already factored in future financial plannings that quite a few positions will be gone in a few months, except the affected people have no idea yet … so my take is that it takes a bit of time to leverage these new tools popping into existence only a few months ago
• kjkjadksj 3y ago
  ML has been a thing in data analysis for decades now. Still, a ML model is not always the one that has the most power. There are a lot of good models in statistics at this point, graphical modeling is like 100 years old. Reading the tech news though you’d think we’ve unlocked the god formula in the past year or something. Thats why I look at it with a heavy side eye today, since today its clearly like a square peg method being shoved into each and every hole since its popular.
• jldugger 3y ago
  > I have had conversations with non-tech people about ChatGPT/AI, but not very frequently, which led me to think, are we just in an echo chamber? Maybe, but like, ChatGPT has broken outside the echo chamber. NPR and marketplace have had plenty of stories on it. Like, my parents probably haven't but they are retired, and veg out on soap operas, game shows and avoid anything that sounds like news.
• asow92 3y ago
  It seems like the tech community is more aware of the possibilities of LLMs because they are its parent in a sense: they created it and/or have watched it grow up. And the general public probably sees it more like a toy or novelty for information retrieval or generating meal plans and aren't aware of its full potential. Although, the general public will probably start to see it more negatively if/when low skilled office jobs start downsizing due to improved automation products on the horizon.
• phkahler 3y ago
  No. Long story... Saw an old friend of mine recently. He's smart - majored in math - but spent many years running a landscaping company. He was showing me a spreadsheet he made to show musical scales and the position of notes on a guitar. You could select picking style and it would change the layout. Very complicated cell formulas - no code. I asked how he ever did all that. He. Said ChatGPT saved him countless hours. He praised it highly for the conversational style vs Google that just gives links to generic information, and the ability to refine your request to get better answers. It can also give formulas in some instances but he tests them. He's taken up using it for other things as well. To be honest though, he could have be a deeply technical person, but he's only interested in such things to the extent it can solve real world problems. Not sure how many people fall in that category.
• wokwokwok 3y ago
  The echo chamber is when you ask for anecdotal opinions instead of actual data. …like what you’re doing right now.
• boredemployee 3y ago
  I have many friends that don't care about it, others that never heard about it. Anyway, call it AI, ML, statistics, the truth is: all these algorithms are helping us get rid of the boring stuff in tech. ie.: I won't waste my time reading a regex documentation to learn how to remove every white space after a combination of characters, because I'll completely forget it two days later. and the examples goes on and on.
• honkycat 3y ago
  NO! ( No no no nooo noooOooo noooOooOoooo )
• tudorw 3y ago
  yes, it is the most impressive tool to have zero documentation, zero affordance and get less capable over time... if they had launched Lotus the same way we would still be using paper ledgers... massive disconnect. The things it is good for are being obscured by promises of a waterfall of tasks performed all by AI ending up in something usable. If you tell me you have a neat programme that does exactly what you expect 99.4% of the time yet you have no knowledge of why the 0.6% fail you will have to demonstrate that is has some very desirable properties not offered by other solutions. Hammer, looking for nuts, what is nuts is people taking £100 mill to wrap some langchain... the burn rate to get noticed is going to be half your spend, the other half is subsidising loss making operations with the idea that there is some pie to win here. It's a novel database. Fun, creative, unpredictable in interesting ways, like my cousin.
• xyzelement 3y ago
  Surprising places I've heard of ChatGPT recently: My sister in law (an orthodontist) had chatGPT draft a job ad when hiring an assistant. My wife just graduated with a non-tech master's degree. On her graduation, the head of the program made humorous references to chatGPT and cited it ln a few topics in her speech. To be honest it's a no brainier. It's helpful tech with a low barrier to entry, and free. People will use it.
• dredmorbius 3y ago
  The concern is not simply within tech. Generative AI is a huge topic of discussion amongst virtually all creatives (painters, graphic artists, musicians, authors, journalists), in business (at all levels largely through business process management, finance, and business intelligence), amongst media (joualism and entertainment), amongst governments (regulation, electoral politics, international relations, military / strategic risks, intelligence, competitiveness, impacts on general employment and social stability), amongst the technological boomer and doomer communities (impacts on future technological development will likely be profound, though agreement on sign bits differs), and more. It's true that the general person on the street likely has little sense of the potential and risks, but that is virtually always the case with new technological developments. Potential impacts are always hard to see, and the discussion about these almost always tends toward various elites (technological, business, government, academic, religious). And that's the case now. But the conversation and concern is not limited to the information technology elite, by any measure.
• joshstrange 3y ago
  I hear more about ChatGPT/AI from people outside my tech circle than within. Heck some of the people in my tech circle won't even play with it or try it out. I don't think AI is the second coming of Christ like some pretend (it is over-hyped outside of tech and somewhat under-hyped inside of tech IMHO) but it's impressive and extremely useful. I've used it many times to help point me in the right direction. I never take what it says as fact, I always "check it's work" but it often saves me considerable amounts of time by getting me on the right track and then I can refine what it gave me. I don't use it for writing "real" code (aside from maybe a few small algorithms) but I do use it to help with certain debugging tasks if I think it will be useful. Also for things like "spit me out a shell script that takes a CSV and does X, Y, Z" it's incredibly useful. These are normally 1-off tasks that I can do by hand or code if needed but ChatGPT makes it way easier. When it comes to writing, I'm often faced with "Blank Screen Syndrome" or a similar type of feeling and so getting something on the screen that I can then edit/revise/improve/fix is a huge boon to my productivity.
• slotrans 3y ago
  > as we’re all quite aware that AI will play an increasing role in our lives (in & out of the office) I am not aware of that! I am definitely inside the tech echo chamber but I do not use ChatGPT, will not do so, don't care about it, and frankly don't respect people who do. It is not a useful thing, and all the "AI" (it isn't) garbage that's popping up right now is equally useless. I say this on HN often and people come back with "but it reached 1M users so fast!" I don't care. Millions of people smoke cigarettes, that doesn't prove they're useful. I am going to sit this hype cycle out. Maybe it will eventually be useful for something. I am clearly not the one to try to imagine what that will be.
• LinuxBender 3y ago
  Are people in tech inside an AI echo chamber? I don't think so. Anecdotally I have had numerous non tech friends ask me about AI. The first thing they always seem to ask is if it will harm people to which I explain its just a tool and more specifically a big-data chat bot that can be manipulated just like the social media algorithms but give more confident and realistic sounding answers using language models to simulate human mimicry. The risk would be based on what entities tune it and the fact it can't or won't show it's work. A tool will do what a tool can do. The intentions of the tool operators and users determine what they tool will be doing. Some of my non-tech friends are trying to find ways that tool can make them money and I have no doubt they will come up with clever uses for it until such time that the walled garden around these tools becomes to cost prohibitive for the average person to afford. After the masses have helped tune the tools I suspect they will be exclusively for large corporations and government entities to rent. I predict that prior to the walls going up, the public interfaces may appear to have lower quality results so that there isn't an uproar when the interface becomes cost prohibitive. This is why I warn them not to base an entire business on this service but rather to augment something.
• valbaca 3y ago
  My family: not tech savvy, haven't mentioned AI once to me, except my mother-in-law who asked if I'd heard of it and wanted to (honestly) know what I thought. My friends: very, very much in tech, we have a channel in our discord where we just laugh at AI/ML/Musk/Crypto because it's so stupid. It can't even fucking add two numbers. It doesn't actually help with internal, brownfield projects with complex business logic and custom internal integrations. It can't summarize legal documents or answer technical questions without completely making crap up. It's just sparkling auto-complete. My work: I've been put on an LLM project. The purpose? Dunno. The goal? Dunno. Our VPs are on the hype train and I'm along for the ride as long as my paycheck keeps clearing (and interviewing in the meantime). They're literally taking tech and trying to find a use for it. It's just the blockchain hype all over again.
  • mlboss 3y ago
    I am finding it pretty useful. It is not a magic wand that will do all the work right away. But if you keep on chatting with it and providing it feedback it does what you want. I no longer search google for programming question. 8/10 times gpt4 gives me code snippet that I can copy paste without any modification. It is like stack overflow on steroids. I can also discuss different system design tradeoffs with it.
• 8note 3y ago
  My sister is decidedly non-tech, and can to visit a few weeks back while working remote, and she used chat gpt over and over and over again for different small tasks.
  • marstall 3y ago
    what were some of them?
• gnopgnip 3y ago
  Have you used mid journey or stable diffusion? It’s a huge change for what is required to make whatever images you can think of
  • system2 3y ago
    No practical use. Just making people say "wow" for a minute then move on. You really can't use them for anything good yet.
• anovikov 3y ago
  My take: AI is a fad just like crypto was before it. Who can even remember what was the toy of the day before that? Maybe Facebook social apps? It will end same way as all the previous ones: 200 smart people will offload some of the fools' life savings into their pockets and move on to the next "big" thing.
• hosh 3y ago
  I think crypto was an echo chamber. AI though, struck a nerve because people intuit a killer app. Or more precisely, AI could potentially be applied in many different places. The last time we had something that felt like this was probably the web browser — at least for me, it is. I think it is because we are now really close to what the non-technical mainstream public thinks computing should be — “do what I mean, not what I say”.
• sigmonsays 3y ago
  I've been saying hype for a while. Please share products that exist today that leverage ChatGPT and are useful. A product that could not exist w/o ChatGPT. A product with actual users and a productive chatGPT. ChatGPT is nothing more than a tech preview or fun experiment that will pave the way for the future. However, it's still confidently wrong, easily confused and incredibly filtered. I'd love to see a product with tangible results.
• jdlyga 3y ago
  It's a bit different, since we're early adopters. The average person hasn't spent dozens of hours with GPT-4 yet, and doesn't realize how useful it is to everyday life.
• parineum 3y ago
  The best and most common uses of it I've found so far is finding recipes. GPT 3.5 is good at it but you generally need to find an actual recipe once you get an idea from it but GPT4 does a much better job of giving you a coherent recipe from the start (trust but verify though). I give it some restrictions and a few preferences and ask it to suggest 20 things for me to cook. It's very helpful.
• softwaredoug 3y ago
  In my experience, investors and secondarily tech execs are in the bubble. From porta-potties to snack chop manufacturers, every CEO is being asked what they’re doing about AI by their board. The actual developers range from enthusiastic to skeptical. Actual developers take a practical perspective IMO.
• bemusedthrow75 3y ago
  Rare Betteridge fail here.
• morelandjs 3y ago
  My mind is blown how useful ChatGPT is. There are certain types of questions it nails where Google search is useless. You’re just an early adopter. Broader adoption is coming, it will just take time.
  • mcluck 3y ago
    I really wish I understood this response. I've played with ChatGPT a good bit and it's very impressive but more often than not it feels like a nice skin on top of Wikipedia. It doesn't do any actual reasoning so I can't drill in to topics to the depth that I want and it's wrong often enough that if I'm working on anything of any consequence, I have to go find other information later to validate it
• nektro 3y ago
  yes and its exhausting
• tennisflyi 3y ago
  They’re in an echo chamber in general.
• stodor89 3y ago
  Yes we are. AI will be useful for some things, society will need to adjust a bit, and we'll move on like whatever. Think the power loom, the computer, and all the other major tech innovations. With the benefit of hindsight, it'll look inevitable. Your grandkids will ask you about the (supposedly) exciting life during the 4th Industrial Revolution, and you'll tell them something in the lines of "eh, life is life".
• vGPU 3y ago
  My mom, who is so non-techy that she needs me to walk her through plugging in an Ethernet cable, uses Chatgpt to help her respond to emails and to write advertising descriptions for stuff she’s selling. She uses AI more than me, who’s hunting for deals on gpu’s to train my own DRL model. I was honestly shocked when I found out. I had figured that it was a tech echo chamber too.
• vasili111 3y ago
  >but maybe AI mainstream adoption will take longer than we anticipate. I think no. I think most of the people will use the products without even hearing about GPT or LLM. There will be products that are based on LLM but they will have nice and easy to use UI which will be not much different that any other usual UI but they will have more advanced capabilities. People will just use them without realizing what is behind those UIs. I think, because there is no need for user to know what is behind UI adoption of new LLM based AI will be much faster than other new technologies that we seen so far.
• kapp 3y ago
  OpenAI is guarding all the information about ChatGPT popularity and usage numbers obviously. Some indirect conclusions can be made from https://www.similarweb.com/website/openai.com/#overview https://www.similarweb.com/website/openai.com/#overview. The absolute numbers are huge, but the explosive growth stopped a couple months ago.
• ouraf 3y ago
  Not really. Mainstream media publishes something about AI at least once a week. It might not have adoption in the everyday life, just like most tools are known, but only fully explored by their niche. There's a lot of overhype, A LOT. And many startups are reinventing the wheel in a more expensive way just to ride the wave, but unlike crypto, LLMs are tools that can solve more "dev/user" level problems, unlike crypto, that was supposed to solve a "global financial system" problem, and since that's too hard to grasp, people used it as investments, because it's closer to their real lives and needs.
• jimmytehbanana 3y ago
  Staff software engineer here. Tech Company executives are going bananas over the potential of AI tools like ChatGPT without realizing it’s not where they expect it to be. My last position changed their entire organizational structure to focus on it and moved all of their tech jobs offshore because “GPT lets non-tech people code.”
• Nellyz 3y ago
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• freelanddev 3y ago
  I just want to say that I was overwhelmed by the engagement this post got. Thanks for everybody who took time to respond / share their thoughts & feedback. I've been in the process of moving so I haven't read through many of the responses, but it seems as though there was plenty of interaction between others which is cool! I'll definitely review everything I can over the next week and follow up, I'm genuinely interested in understanding how others perceive this situation as well.
• rommel1234 3y ago
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• rommel12 3y ago
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• kap42 3y ago
  In education AI is the hottest topic ever. Mostly teachers think that it will spell the doom for any kind of home work. Which might very well be true.
• bannedbybros 3y ago
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