31 ms·

Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

• avgDev 4y ago
  This is going to get spicy. I wonder what impact it will have on Google's monopoly.
  • echelon 4y ago
    Google is stepping out of the frying pan and into the fire. They foolishly derive 50+% of their income from search, where there is no longer a moat. The golden goose is cooked. Edit: It's quite possible that anyone will be able to enter this race right now and build LLM silos for their own domain. This cracks monolithic search wide open. GameFaqs becomes ChatGG, where you can ask, "How do I beat Ridley for the second time in Metroid Prime?" Etc. Websites will become less of a thing. All the people building websites will switch to building AI products. If traffic to Google leaves by X%, they've lost. Now there are lots of new destinations. The race is on, and apex tech companies are not the only ones that can win. Google, in fact, has to sacrifice its most important product to come out alive. That's dangerous.
    • vore 4y ago
      But Google is also adding ChatGPT-like functionality? This seems like a pretty premature declaration.
    • eclipxe 4y ago
      Getting users to switch from an ingrained habit is hard. I wouldn't write things off so fast.
    • pphysch 4y ago
      Too early to say. Microsoft has to execute well, as a first-mover, while Google has to fail to execute. This could easily blow up in Microsoft's face (infrastructure failure or safety/correctness issues), or Google could put out a peer product and win simply due to existing momentum in search.
      • HDThoreaun 4y ago
        > Google could put out a peer product and win simply due to existing momentum in search. This is the likely outcome, but I don't see how it's anything but an utter disaster for Google. The only way for chatbots to monetize at the rate google is currently monetizing search is by the responses themselves being ads. Would people use such a product or would they reject in favor of a product that has simple banner ads? I think the answer is clear. Even if Google retained 99.9% market share in search their revenue would nosedive and their expenses would surely skyrocket with the amount of compute required to run these models.
        • pphysch 4y ago
          If I were an advertiser, I would be keenly interested in how my client's products can be embedded into natural-sounding AI conversation. That is an extraordinary valuable innovation and Google can charge accordingly. Meanwhile, MS has a lot of catching up to do in the ad space.
          • HDThoreaun 4y ago
            I don't see how such a product gains any footing in the market when Bing is over there not putting ads in the chatbot itself and just showing some banners. I certainly would instantly switch away from google if they released that.
            • pphysch 4y ago
              1) If Google can't afford it, how does Microsoft? 2) The deployment of ads would be subtle and hard to detect. To use the example from the announcement, when someone asks "give me a 5 day itinerary for Mexico", you would prioritize suggesting locations or activities that are backed by ad spend. The end user has no way of knowing, they just asked an open-ended question.
              • HDThoreaun 4y ago
                1) If google goes from making .1 cents to .05 cents per search they've got big, big existentially sized problems. If microsoft does they're extremely happy to have users at all. 2) This might work for a while, but I refuse to believe people are that dumb. They'd find out eventually.
    • throwawayapples 4y ago
      You're right in one respect; it's the Innovator's Dilemma. It's how monopolies have historically been weakened and eventually destroyed. I don't think we've seen enough actual leadership (aside from simple rent-seeking) from Google, and I'm not even sure the erstwhile thought leaders haven't already left the building and been replaced by people who are more concerned with stock prices and DEI than with actual innovation. On the other hand, Google is still an incredibly formidable force, and it would be incredibly foolish for any prospective competitor (even in an adjacent field like AI) to ignore them. But, lest you be too freaked out: just remember Google Stadia.
• stszxl 4y ago
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• stszxl 4y ago
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• dougmwne 4y ago
  I think we all here at HN will inevitably underestimate the impact of putting GPT into Bing. We may have been playing with GPT for years, but it has just been gift-wrapped and delivered to hundreds of millions in their default Windows browser. I’m expecting it to blow grandma’s mind.
  • p1esk 4y ago
    I've heard there are already 100M of ChatGPT users. The hype has been strong.
    • qup 4y ago
      I heard yesterday that it had "grown to 200 million users in 2 months"
      • albatross13 4y ago
        I heard today that it had grown "beyond 300 million users in 2.5 months". Crazy!
  • belval 4y ago
    Indeed, I was looking at the list of features and frankly it makes you want to use Edge + Bing as it removes the friction from going to the ChatGPT website entirely. You can ask it to write your LinkedIn posts, define itineraries, translate, etc... all with a simple natural language interface.
    • generalizations 4y ago
      I'm going to have to set up a windows VM again - this could definitely pull a lot of technical folks back to Windows.
      • outcoldman 4y ago
        Edge is available on macOS, Linux, iOS and Android.
• deleted 4y ago
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• jimrandomh 4y ago
  This is undeniably cool and impressive, but, I think proceeding down this research path, at this pace, is quite irresponsible. The primary effect of OpenAI's work has been to set off an arms race, and the effect of that is that humanity no longer has the ability to make decisions about how fast and how far to go with AGI development. Obviously this isn't a system that's going to recursively self-improve and wipe out humanity. But if you extrapolate the current crazy-fast rate of advancement a bit into the future, it's clearly heading towards a point where this gets extremely dangerous. It's good that they're paying lip service to safety/aligment, what actually matters, from a safety perspective, is the relative rates of progress in how well we can understand and control these language models, and how capable we make them. There is good research happening in language-model understanding/control, but it's happening slowly, compared to the rate of capability advances, and that's a problem.
  • generalizations 4y ago
    It's a force multiplier. It can be used for good or bad. I'd rather that we democratize access to these tools - IMO it's better than an alternative where only megacorps have access and do what they like behind closed doors.
    • dwohnitmok 4y ago
      What jimrandomh is talking about is not just whether megacorps use AI for good or bad, but what happens if an AI starts doing damage outside the control of anybody. That could happen regardless of democratization if advancement occurs too quickly without thinking about AI safety.
      • TigeriusKirk 4y ago
        What are the dangers?
      • jimrandomh 4y ago
        Exactly. To flesh out the details a bit, an example of how this could go is: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/kpPnReyBC54KESiSn/optimality-is-the-tiger-and-agents-are-its-teeth https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/kpPnReyBC54KESiSn/optimality... .
• deleted 4y ago
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• dwaltrip 4y ago
  Is this live? When will it be available?
  • layer8 4y ago
    No, it’s not live yet. From The Verge live blog: “Microsoft will roll out this new Bing interface globally but slowly. Sounds like it will be a preview or beta initially.” UPDATE: "One final piece of news to share." New Bing is live today for desktop in a "limited preview." Everyone can try a limited number of queries and sign up for full access today. Millions of people in the coming weeks as well as mobile version.
    • clarkdale 4y ago
      The post title should be changed to "Microsoft will add ..."
  • consumer451 4y ago
    I just opened Edge, went to Bing.com, and there is a wait list option where it claims you can: > Access the new Bing even faster > Get ahead in the line when you complete the following > Step number one - Set Microsoft defaults on your PC > Step number two - Scan the QR code to install the Microsoft Bing App https://www.bing.com/new/fastaccess?form=MY0291&OCID=MY0291 https://www.bing.com/new/fastaccess?form=MY0291&OCID=MY0291
    • brookst 4y ago
      I think that’s a dark pattern. They are saying those things will make it faster to access Bing, because it’s your default search engine, not that it gets you priority access to the chat interface.
      • deleted 4y ago
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      • consumer451 4y ago
        Well, who knows if it's true, but they do also say "Get ahead in the line when you complete the following" That is a bit more direct.
• outcoldman 4y ago
  In a few years we might remember online web search similar to the internet catalog. Thinking, how were you able to navigate internet using that?
  • vineyardmike 4y ago
    I don't think so... The AI Models aren't reliable, and often you want a catalog. If you're searching for a restaurant/product/etc, you want links and aggregated info to pick from (even if you go with "GPT's Top Choice" product). I don't think there is enough search queries that are actually "questions" to kill search. How often are people actually searching "what is easier to learn, a guitar or piano"? I think a true "best case" for LLM based search is that it gets past the keyword searching and into semantic search. If I search Log4J's documentation on how to log errors, the best case search is to deep-link to the docs on that (even if I get the wording of functions wrong). Having Chat-du-jour tell me how to do it will be unreliable (or imprecise), and prevent me from diving deeper into the docs later. We've seen this recently in tons of HN front page postings the last week.
• enervation 4y ago
  From the Verge's liveblogging (https://www.theverge.com/2023/2/7/23588249/microsoft-event-ai-live-blog-openai-chatgpt-bing-announcements-news https://www.theverge.com/2023/2/7/23588249/microsoft-event-a...) "This is an important part of the presentation, but I just want to note that Microsoft is having to carefully explain how its new search engine will be prevented from helping to plan school shootings. "Early red teaming showed that the model could help plan attacks" on things like schools. "We don't want to aid in illegal activity." So the model is used to act as a bad actor to test the model itself." If ChatGPT is still susceptible to simple prompt engineering attacks like DAN, I don't feel confident that their safety system is actually going to be robust enough to prevent malicious use.
  • rejectfinite 4y ago
    Whatever. The entire internet can be used for "malicious use" This is cool tech, and right now it just needs to get out.
    • bun_at_work 4y ago
      I agree, and the argument OP is making sounds similar to book banning - let's ban the Anarchist's Cookbook so people won't be terrorists isn't actually sound logic.
    • throwawayapples 4y ago
      Yeah. We should probably delete all those pages on Wikipedia. Like, all of them. And Google Maps, too. Streetview? Another nightmare waiting to happen.
  • delfinom 4y ago
    I feel the problem with red teaming is you need to actually get real red team players to play the game. Normal humans are just too naïve and sheltered in approaches hah.
  • joxel 4y ago
    This is dumb shit just like journalists going onto YouTube every few years and finding incendiary videos. There will always be a way that a person can use something for evil, that’s not the fault of the thing.
• zmk5 4y ago
  This is really interesting tech but I wonder how they are going to monetize this. Will it be traditional ads shown as results or would they be incorporated into the AI bots text? Like the "5-day trip to Mexico" prompt with the return being hotel stays and restaurants that fork up money to be included in the AI bots response.
  • MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
    Plain old ad auctions with placements above or beside the "organic" results would be the most honest. Using bids to somehow bias responses would be much worse Imo.
  • generalizations 4y ago
    They don't need to monetize it directly, if they can use it as a way to bring people back into the MS ecosystem. I'm a diehard linux guy without any microsoft computers at home, but I will absolutely set up a dedicated Windows 11 box if that's the only way to get unlimited access to this tech.
• bfeynman 4y ago
  Tried to test Bing after probably only usually it accidentally a few times over past 10 years, holy shit is it garbage. If you search "how to use a database" the results are literally all about how to use Microsoft Access, and people call out google for favoring its own results.
• layer8 4y ago
  A quote from The Verge live blog: "Early red teaming showed that the model could help plan attacks" on things like schools. "We don't want to aid in illegal activity." So the model is used to act as a bad actor to test the model itself. Based on that last sentence, I think I have a good idea now how AGI will take over humanity. ;) (Not implying that the current tech is anywhere close to AGI.)
  • habibur 4y ago
    > Early red teaming showed that the model could help plan attacks" on things like schools. "We don't want to aid in illegal activity. As if that wasn't possible with conventional search engines.
    • paxys 4y ago
      And this was a huge public concern when the internet/search engines initially got popular. "Omg you can Google the ingredients to build a bomb! This shouldn't be allowed!!"
• asplake 4y ago
  I'm glad I'm not paying Microsoft's electricity bill
• paulpan 4y ago
  Most interesting tidbits: 1 - Sam Altman onstage all but confirmed the underlying LLM model as GPT-4 as he kept saying "next gen" without providing a name 2 - Microsoft is all-in by making this front-and-center of Bing, as well as deep integration into Edge browser I'm most curious about how Microsoft is planning to pay for the infrastructure cost of serving the traffic.
  • revskill 4y ago
    Its goal is to kill Google + Chrome i think. Profit comes later ?
    • gigglesupstairs 4y ago
      Exactly. That seems like the plan. They have huge cash to burn and for once, they seem to have an edge on Google in what has traditionally been google’s core business. Profits will follow along if they can divert the huge percentage of search engine and browser user-base to Bing and Edge.
    • paulpan 4y ago
      Not if Microsoft kills itself in the process? At best it's a Pyrrhic victory as both companies sink enormous infra costs to outdo one another. Worst case could be like Nokia acquisition debacle a decade ago when Microsoft desperately tried to re-break into mobile and failed. There was a HN thread on this a while ago where consensus was serving cost ~$0.03-0.05 PER query, which is absolutely huge. Adds more credence to OpenAI's new subscription model of $20/month. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34390123 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34390123
      • revskill 4y ago
        It's hard for Google now i think. It has really bad reputation on many things, which are hard to re-earn. I myself no longer use Google search, and less Gmail (mostly for throwaway content). Google gonna have a hard time to earn reputation in their services. They lost the "trust" war.
• deleted 4y ago
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• rejectfinite 4y ago
  bing.com/new is supposed to work from their slides, but may not be live yet.
  • yodon 4y ago
    Is anyone having success with the https://bing.com/new https://bing.com/new link? I'm not seeing it, but I'm not sure if that's because I'm on a Mac (via both Chrome and the OSX version of Edge)
    • eclipxe 4y ago
      Yes, it works here.
      • yodon 4y ago
        Which OS?
    • captn3m0 4y ago
      Gives me a 404 and then a redirect to https://www.bing.com/?form=REDIRERR https://www.bing.com/?form=REDIRERR (Edit: On Firefox/Linux)
    • oauea 4y ago
      Not me. I've tried on Chrome/Firefox on Linux and Edge/Chrome/Firefox on Windows. Both logged in and out. From EU.
    • partiallypro 4y ago
      VPN into a server close to Redmond/Seattle and you'll get it immediately.
    • dwaltrip 4y ago
      It wasn't working earlier for me, but is now. I'm using Firefox on a Mac in Los Angeles.
  • candiddevmike 4y ago
• deadalus 4y ago
  [flagged]
  • nickthegreek 4y ago
    Don't hijack threads. search. This has already previously been discussed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34676043 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34676043
• mustacheemperor 4y ago
  The Edge integration announced today also looks very impressive. I chuckled at the thought that MS is probably about to make a daily Edge user out of me and a lot of other people, but of course Edge is Chrome under the hood now. So Google beat MS to browser market dominance, and now MS is using their browser as a platform to go after Google's core business. Neat. I think this tech is going to be transformative for everyone in a positive way. I've been doing a lot of bookkeeping and form-filling-out the past couple weeks and I keep thinking, wow, I wish I could just explain to ChatGPT what I need copied and pasted from one document to another or what needs to be filled out.
  • basch 4y ago
    >of course Edge is Chrome under the hood Embrace, Extend. That's the beauty of open source, right? If development and innovation slows, somebody can fork.
    • loudmax 4y ago
      > Embrace, Extend. Wonder what comes next from Microsoft after Embrace and Extend ...
      • huijzer 4y ago
        Antitrust?
      • acchow 4y ago
        Extinguish?
    • poutine 4y ago
      Left out the last E there...
      • spixy 4y ago
        that is right, with open source there is no last E
• gardenhedge 4y ago
  Microsoft's lazy ass approach to a search engine may finally pay off!
  • rejectfinite 4y ago
    Bing has actually gotten better in recent years. I like the results and UI, the integration with 365 makes it nice for work. I mainly use Duckduckgo and Startpage but sometimes Bing, especially in Edge.
    • gardenhedge 4y ago
      Their strategy was just to copy as much as they could from the leading product and direct all their traffic there.
• 2bitencryption 4y ago
  So much for "citing its work." The answer I got here: https://www.bing.com/search?q=What%20cars%20should%20I%20consider%20buying%20that%20are%20AWD,%20go%200-60%20in%20less%20than%206%20seconds,%20seat%206%20or%20more%20and%20have%20decent%20reviews?&iscopilotedu=1&form=MA13GA https://www.bing.com/search?q=What%20cars%20should%20I%20con... Says the Tesla Model Y can go from 0 to 60 in 4.8 seconds, and has a citation link to a page that... doesn't even mention Tesla once.
  • oauea 4y ago
    Am I missing something? That link just shows the usual search results. Did they not roll this out in the EU yet or something?
    • eclipxe 4y ago
      You need to sign up. bing.com/new
      • nickthegreek 4y ago
        Just redirects me to bing.com.
      • oauea 4y ago
        Dead link that redirects to bing.com
  • eclipxe 4y ago
    Yeah. I think folks have gotten too caught up in the hype...
  • nickthegreek 4y ago
    I think you are just using regular bing. This is not the AI-ified version.
    • 2bitencryption 4y ago
      No, it is indeed the AI-ified version. It cited a source for the "0 to 60" value for a Tesla Model Y, but if you actually follow the link to the source, it doesn't mention Tesla once.
• rvz 4y ago
  If you haven’t realised yet, Microsoft Bing with ChatGPT is the last stage of the EEE phase ‘Extinguish’ after embracing and extending OpenAI, that will drive and undercut other competing services like Jasper.ai to zero and the best AI tools for free or close to free. It will significantly affect smaller so-called AI companies like Jasper.ai than Google. But this announcement is unsurprising and as expected. [0] I will reiterate again. The only way to disrupt OpenAI especially ChatGPT, is for an open source version of ChatGPT which is smaller and can run offline. This happened with Stable Diffusion towards DALLE-2. A open source model that matches ChatGPT and even bests GPT-4 extinguishes the need to use OpenAI’s APIs and will change everything. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34684700 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34684700
  • heleninboodler 4y ago
    So your thinking is that they had an idea to extinguish $10 billion by giving it to a company and then destroying them?
    • rvz 4y ago
      You might want to read my comment again, since it appears you haven’t.
      • heleninboodler 4y ago
        Well, ok, what specifically is being "extended" in this scenario?
  • yodon 4y ago
    > EEE No. This has nothing to do with a statement made 20+ years ago. There is no "Embrace" involved. There is no "Extend" involved. There is no "Extinquish" involved. There is an obvious business and competitive step involved, and a major business relationship with OpenAI involved. It's time to grow up and stop acting as if using terminology and aspersions from the era of Fax machine is somehow hip and insightful. Every single person involved in the EEE era retired from Microsoft years ago. Most HN readers weren't even born in those days.
• yodon 4y ago
  Is the https://bing.com/new https://bing.com/new link working? I'm not sure if it's not live yet or if I'm not seeing it because I'm checking from a Mac (via both Chrome and the OSX version of Edge)
  • buildbot 4y ago
    It works for me. Edit - Well, it gives me the waitlist at least. Possibly because I am in the MS corp net - changes may not have propagated? IDK.
    • ilaksh 4y ago
      Are you sure? For me it just did a fast redirect to the normal bing after flashing an error.
      • rezonant 4y ago
        same, in LA
    • yodon 4y ago
      Which OS?
      • deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  • epups 4y ago
    Not currently working for me (Germany, Windows).
  • CWuestefeld 4y ago
    It gives me a 404.
  • tonyaiken 4y ago
    It works for me, already joined waitlist.
• anthropodie 4y ago
  Yesterday Google and now Microsoft both announcing their own chat bot integration and yet there is not a single link where I can try out either one of them. What is this new trend of announcing things as if it's available for general use and then hiding it behind invites or not making it available at all.
  • sanxiyn 4y ago
    It's nothing new. Remember Gmail invites?
  • deleted 4y ago
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  • perfectstorm 4y ago
    someone posted this above but you can join the waitlist here https://bing.com/new https://bing.com/new
    • anthropodie 4y ago
      404 and redirects to homepage. Off topic: Anyone knows how to get rid of wall of news on bing homepage? I tried disabling it but it still loads it and makes it visible if I scroll down.
      • perfectstorm 4y ago
        that's weird. I was able to join the waitlist. maybe it's rolling out slowly across the globe?
      • thrill 4y ago
        The down-arrow to the right of the spam hid it from view for me.
    • enervation 4y ago
• legrande 4y ago
  Tangential, but Google provides many answers to various questions in an intuitive way above the fold and without having to click on various articles / URLs. This is great, but also drives traffic away from websites, keeping everything on Google.com! Can't wait to see how Google implements its 'Bard'[0] system alongside search. [0] https://blog.google/technology/ai/bard-google-ai-search-updates/ https://blog.google/technology/ai/bard-google-ai-search-upda...
  • partiallypro 4y ago
    > Google provides many answers to various questions in an intuitive way above the fold and without having to click on various articles Bing does this as well, that isn't new to either platform. It's useful but also is wrong a lot. (ChatGPT and Bard [terrible name] will also get a lot wrong.)
    • legrande 4y ago
      I've never used Bing. Heavy user of DuckDuckGo though, which uses Bing as a source. DDG also has Q&A tech. Heavy user of its currency conversion feature, so it tells me what `100 dollars in Euro` is.
    • finikytou 4y ago
      yeah and chatgpt will be wrong a lot. or better will give a onesided view of the results.
• SirLJ 4y ago
  I wonder how this will affect duckduckgo and similar using bing results...
• WirelessGigabit 4y ago
  Am I the only person annoyed that the first 30 links on this page are to 'theverge.com'? I want to get to Bing itself. Or at least the waitlist. I don't want to have to parse through so much text and get distracted. In fact, the only place where 'bing.com/new' shows up is in the source code used for what I think is SEO. I cannot find an href anywhere pointing to bing.com/new So here it is: https://bing.com/new https://bing.com/new
  • jchw 4y ago
    I get redirected to regular bing when I visit, with an apparent error code in the URL. Is this not fully rolled out?
    • ilaksh 4y ago
      Me too.
    • WirelessGigabit 4y ago
      Not sure, works for me, but I visit with Edge. Maybe that's the issue?
      • michaelcampbell 4y ago
        I get the same redirect on a windows box from both Firefox and Edge.
    • dwaltrip 4y ago
      It seems not. I've been unable to access it.
      • dwaltrip 4y ago
        Update: bing.com/new now works for me, and I was able to sign up for the waitlist.
  • deleted 4y ago
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• gigel82 4y ago
  Better than I expected, especially the Edge integration... no word on monetization so I presume ads down our throat and signing over our data for eternity.
• NGRhodes 4y ago
  I have mixed feelings about this. I like the integration and the helpfulness, reminds me of the ships computer off the Enterprise in Star Trek in that it can be very useful for collecting information to help learn and make decisions. Things I don't like: This adds a layer between content creators and the user, its opaque, we don't know what filtering, censoring is happening, how accurate the information is that is being derived, how laws are being interpreted, how legal, untested gray areas are handled. Also how are the content creators going be compensated, I think this could lead to more and more content being put behind barriers to help protect income and IP.
  • JohnFen 4y ago
    This seems to be aiming to be an "answer engine". That's a very different thing than a search engine. My fear is that search engines will atrophy or go away, and I will have lost very important functionality.
  • dd36 4y ago
    So like search?
    • layer8 4y ago
      Search used to be quite neutral, except for page rank. “List all web pages in your index that contain the following words/phrases.”
  • cmelbye 4y ago
    I think it's a continuation of what's been happening for years on Google search result pages: - At the top of the page, everyone is familiar with the massive infoboxes that summarize the query and often push to other Google properties rather than the source. - The actual web results in the middle of the page are often trash due to high ad load, SEO blog spam, etc. And of course you are only seeing the output of a filtered/censored ranking system. - They're even taking over the bottom of the page too, at least on mobile. If I search for "San Francisco", after scrolling a bit I get into an infinite scroll of other suggested queries, like "hotels in San Francisco". Google made the decision to heavily bias and editorialize their search results a long time ago, but it's turned into a frankenstein because to some extent it still masquerades as what it used to be. The chat interface might be a good way to cut through that charade and get to the point more directly.
• allenu 4y ago
  I wonder what this and whatever Google has got planned will do to content generation on the web. If whatever you write will now easily get hoovered up into an AI but you don't get the benefit of actual clicks to your site, will you still be motivated to post? And will more content go behind a paywall to avoid getting freely used by AI? That said, I do hope it strikes a blow to a lot of awful SEO content out there.
  • dd36 4y ago
    Or maybe it will make clickbait and SEO less valuable so original content becomes valuable again?
  • thrill 4y ago
    Hopefully the low value stuff ("I'm going to tell you how to solve your problem but first we'll 'discuss' 10 irrelevant things and oh by the way the 'solution' is to buy our plugin for a low monthly subscription to remove the dancing monkey virus.") will begin to disappear.
• epups 4y ago
  This is a potentially momentous occasion here. Microsoft is betting hard that they can mount a challenge to Google, and I think ChatGPT can credibly attempt that. The answer from Google so far is weak. The thought that Bing may actually overtake Google would be hilarious a few months ago, and now it looks... possible?
  • unshavedyak 4y ago
    Yea i've never thought of using Bing. In fact i generally hate my Windows experience and vastly prefer Linux. Yet when this goes live i'll be there, trying it out, seeing how ChatGPT can integrate into my searches, answer questions, etc. After all most Searches i execute are either direct questions or questions by proxy. I want to understand a specific function signature. I want to see the inputs, etc. This has been the area i've been most interested in for ChatGPT. With that said it'll be interesting to see how it manages to merge the idea of searching with knowledge transfer. My searches are often proxies for questions, yes.. but almost always tailored for the Search Input. Ie i don't search with a question, i search with keywords tailored towards the search engine returning results that i suspect will lead me to an answer. Changing my Search Input might be a difficult task if it's necessary.
    • MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
      The best experience I've had so far is sort of asking for what I should be searching for. For example, starting a project in a new and unfamiliar domain. I tried searching for what I wanted and kept getting drowned in similar but unrelated responses. I explained what my problem was to ChatGPT and asked what the industry names and terms were. Using the response, my searches were instantly relevant.
      • revskill 4y ago
        It's even more helpful to configure webpack config.
        • thrwawy74 4y ago
• dharma1 4y ago
  Wonder what the compute cost for this ends up being. My guess is they will have to somehow rate limit it - I’m sure the rollout speed will also depend how much people end up using it. Maybe they will figure out some ad revenue - but I don’t think they can charge users for this. Would love to know how much compute $ they’re willing to throw at this to attempt to topple Google. Probably whatever it takes (within reason), MS missed out on mobile and search - can’t afford that to happen again. Over time the inference for these queries will get cheaper (FP8 and later 4bit precision, sparse/pruned weights etc)
  • kjkjadksj 4y ago
    Maybe searches just arent that unique and they will cache all but the long tail of answers
    • altdataseller 4y ago
      15% of searches are unique according to https://www.seroundtable.com/amp/15-of-search-queries-google-new-30025.html https://www.seroundtable.com/amp/15-of-search-queries-google...
      • onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
        What's the decay? How many searches are only searched 2 and 3 times? I'd question if it's worth it to store the results an AI output for 3 years so that you don't need to regenerate it when someone searches it in the future. For 1 - you're probably going to have a meaningfully better model every year...
        • brookst 4y ago
          Yes, there’s a graph of cache duration to hit ratio. With no data or particular domain expertise, I’d bet a 24 hour cache would hit at least 30% of the time, and a 7 day cache 60% of the time. The problem is that a lot of the misses will be for recent events. How do you know whether “how many 737 maxes have crashed” should be served with a cache that is 3 months old?
• jimrandomh 4y ago
  This is undeniably cool and impressive, but, I think proceeding down this research path, at this pace, is quite irresponsible. The primary effect of OpenAI's work has been to set off an arms race, and the effect of that is that humanity no longer has the ability to make decisions about how fast and how far to go with AGI development. Obviously this isn't a system that's going to recursively self-improve and wipe out humanity. But if you extrapolate the current crazy-fast rate of advancement a bit into the future, it's clearly heading towards a point where this gets extremely dangerous. It's good that they're paying lip service to safety/aligment, what actually matters, from a safety perspective, is the relative rates of progress in how well we can understand and control these language models, and how capable we make them. There is good research happening in language-model understanding/control, but it's happening slowly, compared to the rate of capability advances, and that's a problem.
  • titaniumtown 4y ago
    > humanity no longer has the ability to make decisions about how fast and how far to go with AGI development. This is far from being AGI.
  • capableweb 4y ago
    > Obviously this isn't a system that's going to recursively self-improve and wipe out humanity. I don't think it has to be able to do that, humanity seems to be capable of achieving this very thing by itself, with or without AI.
  • brookst 4y ago
    > This is undeniably cool and impressive, but, I think proceeding down this research path, at this pace, is quite irresponsible. Yes, but isn't that pretty much true for everything. We as a species, and as individuals, aren't really built for the long game. From work to home to hobbies, it's generally not well received when someone says "this looks really useful, but let's slow down in case there are unintended consequences." We see this with security as an afterthought, privacy as an afterthought, performance as an afterthoughts, sustainability as an afterthought. I'm a little bit encouraged by the fact that the lag time from innovation to responsibility seems to be closing, at least.
• trekkie1024 4y ago
  From the livestream: Last Q: Any plans to incorporate ads? Yusuf: Ads will be there from the start. I wonder how that's implemented.
  • flir 4y ago
    > Write me a poem about flowers Roses red, violets blue, Nature's beauty shines in view. Flowers so bright, with fragrance sweet, They add a touch of joy so neat. For gifts to loved ones, far or near, Choose Interflora, they'll bring cheer. Bouquets to brighten every day, Delivered with love, come what may.
    • cube00 4y ago
      I thought you were joking but ChatGPT actually does this if you ask: So when you want to say it all, With a gesture big or small, Choose Interflora, the name you know, For the finest flowers, where ever you go. With their quick and easy delivery, Your message of love will always be heard with clarity. So next time you want to say "I care," Choose Interflora, for a gift beyond compare.
      • flir 4y ago
        Yeah, I just tacked "...that includes an ad for interflora" on the end of my prompt. There's a serious point there, though - once the AI is (re)writing the content, dynamic product placement's gonna be trivial. Feels icky.
• low_tech_punk 4y ago
  Interesting they chose Bing over Cortana.
  • rejectfinite 4y ago
    Cortana only runs on Windows. With this, it will be in every browser eventually. They are semi-retireing Cortana https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/changes-to-cortana-in-2020-and-2021-2d04871e-f576-7080-58b4-7c37131c3baf https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/changes-to-cortana...
    • kjkjadksj 4y ago
      Fitting they retire windows cortana after they ruined her in the halo universe
• endisneigh 4y ago
  it's interesting to compare all of the hype around LLM on here with my anecdotal experience with my tech friends who doesn't really seem to care, and my non-tech friends who couldn't care less. sort of reminds me of the hype around 3D movies immediately after the first Avatar movie.
  • redox99 4y ago
    Considering ChatGPT reached 100M users in 2 months, it's clear a lot of people care.
    • JohnFen 4y ago
      That doesn't necessarily mean people care. It means it's a cool new toy right now. Most of those people may (or may not) forget all about it when the initial rush passes.
    • omnicognate 4y ago
      I'm one of those users and for me at least it's pure curiosity. I don't see any use cases for it yet that interest me and I certainly don't want it involved in my web searches.
    • suddenexample 4y ago
      ChatGPT user here. Was cool to try out, but I have no real use cases for it. Maybe next time I have trouble brainstorming what to cook - but it seems rather niche.
• MeriB 4y ago
  Bing Vs Bard? I ll pick Bing just for the lolz
  • braymundo 4y ago
    Bard’a Bing, Bard’a Boom
    • deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
• sublinear 4y ago
  Damn. I was really hoping for the return of Clippy. RIP ClipGPT
  • layer8 4y ago
    I’m sure “theming” of chatbots will be a thing at some point.
    • deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  • annexrichmond 4y ago
    Missed opportunity
• riskneutral 4y ago
  I just tried to use this feature on Bing. The first link prominently at the top with a text blurb was something called "answer-all.com" ... It indeed had a good answer to my question, but when I clicked the link it looked like a scam site that asks me to "upgrade Adobe Flash" ... I'm really confused by the whole experience.
• breck 4y ago
  When will it launch??
  • titaniumtown 4y ago
    soon tm
  • layer8 4y ago
    From The Verge’s coverage: New Bing is live today for desktop in a "limited preview." Everyone can try a limited number of queries and sign up for full access today. Millions of people in the coming weeks as well as mobile version. Currently restricted to the US I believe.
• Klonoar 4y ago
  How does Bing, at whatever point, overcome the odd issue of: "google it" is a verb in pretty much every culture I've traveled through. Bing isn't even in the conversation. Changing the tech doesn't mean much on this one, but I'm curious what others think here.
  • brookst 4y ago
    I expect it will be like saying "xeroxing". People pretty much know what you mean, but it's an archaic workflow, so you don't hear it a lot. I think the paradigm shift here is that you're asking questions / getting answers / researching. You are no longer "searching for the right web page", which is what googling means.
  • phs 4y ago
    It'll 23 skidoo when the time comes.
  • generalizations 4y ago
    I don't use the name brand tissue paper, but I always call it a kleenex. It'll likely be that 'googling stuff' means "looking things up online" long after Google loses dominance.
  • lb4r 4y ago
    People will use the phrase "Bing It" as a joke, but due to their increased use of Bing, they will say it so often that it soon won't be a joke.
    • michaelcampbell 4y ago
      In a similar zeitgeist, there was a video from some guy claiming to be an (ex?) microsoft employee telling a story about how Ballmer would force everyone to say "bing it!" in the same way Mean Girls tried to make "fetch" happen, with similar results. I also recall, possibly incorrectly, that the whole thing was made up. It was a funny video, and seemed in character of Ballmer after the infamous "Developers!" display.
• davidkunz 4y ago
  I dislike the 1000 character limit. In ChatGPT, it's quite useful to insert larger chunks, e.g. for "improve this text" or "given that code, how can I implement ..." questions.
• resource0x 4y ago
  Before long, we will have 10 ai-powered search engines. Here is an idea: create a website (or browser plugin) to organize the debate between search engines. That is, for every response from bing, send a question to bard ("I heard that ... Is it true?"), and then feed a response back to bing, etc., occasionally asking ddg to chime in. Suggested domain name: flamewar.ai
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  • mdaniel 4y ago
    Now only $70/yr :-D https://www.namecheap.com/domains/registration/results/?domain=flamewar.ai https://www.namecheap.com/domains/registration/results/?doma...
• skilled 4y ago
  Well, they better start figuring out how to let writers opt out of this horseshit because I am not about to live my life and write content knowing that some AI model will hoover it up and fuck me out of my livelihood.
  • coldpie 4y ago
    > they better start figuring out how to let writers opt out of this horseshit I don't say this happily, but I think you can go ahead and make plans assuming that isn't going to happen.
    • skilled 4y ago
      It will though. Nothing in this world is free, least of all greed and ignorance.
      • joxel 4y ago
        Hopefully you have other skills because the wagon wheel makers can whine all they want but the automobile is coming
        • coldpie 4y ago
          While I disagree with your analogy -- auto makers didn't build their business by stealing the work of wheelwrights -- I agree with the conclusion that the auto is coming.
  • brookst 4y ago
    Did you hoover up anything from books you've read?
    • skilled 4y ago
      And your point is what exactly?
• nailer 4y ago
  Direct link to source article: https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2023/02/07/reinventing-search-with-a-new-ai-powered-microsoft-bing-and-edge-your-copilot-for-the-web/ https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2023/02/07/reinventing-sear...
• seydor 4y ago
  There s no video of the event?
  • benrapscallion 4y ago
    https://youtu.be/rOeRWRJ16yY https://youtu.be/rOeRWRJ16yY
• Waterluvian 4y ago
  This feels like a great opportunity to give it a better name than Bing and quietly retire it.
  • bottlepalm 4y ago
    +1, the name is tainted.
  • basch 4y ago
    Edge Surfer. Bring back the sense of expedition and wonder that came from Explorer, Safari, Navigator, and the old language of the www: cyber, surf, crawl/web. Although I think in the long run, the product category being under the Copilot bucket will work well. Instead of Cortana or Clippy, maybe an old Biplane.
    • omnicognate 4y ago
      Ah yes, the new googling: edging.
      • Waterluvian 4y ago
        Reminds me of this: https://youtu.be/Hx-CRiSlqTk https://youtu.be/Hx-CRiSlqTk
  • 1000100_1000101 4y ago
    Yes, the AI needs a good name. How about Chandler?
  • adrianmonk 4y ago
    Just add an "e" and change its name to Being.
  • Kurtz79 4y ago
    My thoughts exactly. As useful at it might become, "Bing it" will always sound ridicolous.
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• low_tech_punk 4y ago
  Did anyone try the "Fast Access" sign up? I did all the tasks on the list and the page remained the same. I think it's a scam to get more user sign-ups for Bing. At the minimum, the page should indicate your updated status on whether or not you are on the "faster" track. https://www.bing.com/new/fastaccess?form=MY0291&OCID=MY0291 https://www.bing.com/new/fastaccess?form=MY0291&OCID=MY0291
  • eclipxe 4y ago
    Of course its a scam to get more defaults set. MS is the same MS from before.
• braingenious 4y ago
  I’m really curious as to how on Earth did Google fumble the ball on this stuff? It’s hilarious that their search offering has been so bad for so long that the new Big Idea in Search is “What if you searched something and the returned result wasn’t garbage?”
  • TaylorAlexander 4y ago
    I don't see it as fumbling the ball. The technology is brand new and Google just yesterday announced they are currently testing bringing this to chat too. Just like Apple does not release folding phones and rear screens first, the major player does not need to be the first mover. OpenAI has grabbed all the publicity but this entire time Google research has been publishing their own work in the field and they have shown it off at the annual google developer conference. Now the day after Google announced that they are beginning large scale testing of this feature in search for an imminent wide release, Microsoft has released their version. There is no need for Google to be the absolute first. What is most important is that they keep the Google brand looking great and they release the feature when it is ready.
    • zone411 4y ago
      They pretty much admitted that they did fumble the ball: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/21/technology/ai-chatgpt-google-search.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/21/technology/ai-chatgpt-goo.... But I agree that Google's research is #1 and they will come back strong.
    • speedgoose 4y ago
      Meanwhile ChatGPT had 100 million users and 13 million daily users in January. They accumulated a lot of data and while I’m sure the Google engineers are very competent and fast, their large scale testing may not produce as much useful data. I think Google will manage in the long term, but for the current race it looks difficult.
      • TaylorAlexander 4y ago
        This all assumes it’s even a good idea. Google is always extremely careful with their brand. We harp on them for canceling projects but to most people google is a search engine. And yes the quality of results has steadily declined for a long time, but deploying a large language model in google search has the potential to cause serious negative outcomes unlike slowly degrading search results. I really don’t see it as a race, which presumes that moving first is an advantage. OpenAI is building their brand and wants to be known as an AI company, so it makes sense to release early versions of their system. Google is a well established company that can easily deploy this technology when they think it’s ready and eclipse OpenAI in users overnight. But even then it’s not about having the most users, it’s about building a new platform for the next 10+ years of search. Google is already the default. They can take their time and still do just fine.
• ttn 4y ago
  Radical changes are ahead in terms of monetization on the internet.
• californiadreem 4y ago
  During the early stages of the Great Depression, the average age of workers went down as economic costs mounted in keeping the older, less efficient, more compensated workers employed. This simultaneously led to increased mechanization by factory owners and the creation of social security by the federal government. I can't help but noticing the potential for the same pattern here. It feels like we've reached Bronze Orientation Day for Silicon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O6jbZ_fdrY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O6jbZ_fdrY
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
• d0tn3t 4y ago
  Innovators dilemma at play. - Google look at LLM through the lens of advertising. - Microsoft look at LLM through the lens of browser and search competition. The launch strategy might indicate that Cortana has an even worse market share than Bing, even though it is better form factor for ChatGPT integration. Curious what others think.
  • Magi604 4y ago
    Having ChatGPT be able to take verbal inputs and give verbal replies in Cortana's voice would be pretty neat. Then you just find a way to make it a standalone thing not reliant on the internet, like in some sort of module or hard drive. Then you put that module into a full body suit that has 2-way speakers in the helmet. Congratulations, you are the Master Chief. Welcome to Halo.
  • pphysch 4y ago
    The risk-reward proposition of LLM advertising is clear, you eat up Wikipedia/SO/Quota/News/Blogspam traffic (sizeable % of overall?) and get to inject your own ads into it. Risk-reward of MS spending a lot to beat Google Search is more dubious.
    • d0tn3t 4y ago
      M$FT after all ;)
  • vitorgrs 4y ago
    Cortana is dead, though. So makes no sense to implement in a product that doesn't exist anymore.
• sigmonsays 4y ago
  What is something like "ChatGPT Search" going to do to the web as a whole? Are we further consolidating resources into a few language models and now there will only be a few places for answers? The skeptic in me is worried. It seems like information will be distilled down and lots of opinions and details will be lost in the process.
• sys32768 4y ago
  Coming soon: I'm sorry, Dave. I can't answer that while your ad-blocker is enabled.
  • slowmovintarget 4y ago
    Also: Jurassic Park quoting intensifies.
  • cube00 4y ago
    I also can't answer that question while your default search engine is not Bing and your default browser is not Edge.
    • Miraste 4y ago
      Imagine the wonderful future in which, instead of boilerplate popups, Bing uses natural language and your own data to try to convince you to use it :/
• JohnFen 4y ago
  I really hope this doesn't change how DDG operates.
• ycombinatornews 4y ago
  Clippy is back!
• stackedinserter 4y ago
  Shower thought: with SO, Wikipedia, Quora etc eaten by LLM's, who (or what) will be generating content to train (teach?) LLM's with new, more relevant data?
  • 9dev 4y ago
    But why, other LLM‘s of course! It’s a beautiful cycle.
    • nmeagent 4y ago
      An ouroboros of BS!
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• Lapsa 4y ago
  bing! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GM4Lt5k24s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GM4Lt5k24s
• ericpp 4y ago
  I was hoping they would do more than just put ChatGPT into Bing. For instance, the question about travel should generate a result of suggested places that includes photos and links to more information. The result should be easily skimmable to let the user narrow in on things that are interesting and skip over things that are not. Instead, it just generates a text essay in a chat bubble that you have to read through each time.
• andrewstuart 4y ago
  Microsoft should have come up with a new brand for this product - it would have made it feel more exciting instead of being burdened with the failed bing brand.
• wanderr 4y ago
  I hope I'm wrong but I feel like this is going to be great for a couple of years max, and then as people learn how to do SEO for GPT it will lead to even more nonsensical garbage on the web and totally insane results. There's too much financial incentive to abuse anything that can drive traffic.
• siva7 4y ago
  Now Bing is finally a real competitor to Google Search. Makes me wonder if we are slowly seeing Google losing its edge.
  • nradov 4y ago
    Bing has been a real competitor to Google Search for several years in terms of results quality and features. Google retained their dominant market share largely due to inertia, and ties to unrelated products.
• deleted 4y ago
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• deleted 4y ago
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• the42thdoctor 4y ago
  For paying the people that create the content on which this thing if built on top of they could implement the YouTube premium model. Whenever ChatGPT uses something you wrote to answer a query they give you some cents based on how much content was stolen from you. This would also encourage people to write more...
• sigmar 4y ago
  I'm remembering a HN comment from yesterday that suggested Microsoft use this as an opportunity to rebrand bing... Kind of hilarious they thought calling it "new bing" was the way to go.
  • omnicognate 4y ago
    It's Microsoft. They haven't come up with a name for anything that wasn't daft or insane since the 90s.
• actuator 4y ago
  How do people feel about sites from where this data is coming losing out on revenue? When Google started showing answers, I remember complaints regarding Google benefiting from the site's data while depriving the site of a visitor. ChatGPT takes it to the next level. Social media companies had run into issues for showing og tag content from news sites, where news sites complained of loss of revenue. In some jurisdictions they were fundamentally forced to ink deals with news sites for something core to the web, which is hyperlinking stuff. Here, we are going one step ahead by summarising. While we are appreciating this now, this will become a fundamental issue in future if search engines keep becoming the content platform themselves.
  • JohnFen 4y ago
    I use search to find websites. In my selfish point of view, I'm worried that it will become harder to find them with this sort of thing. Google search has already made it really hard, and that's without supercharging "AI".
    • actuator 4y ago
      Yeah, that's what I was thinking. It is a mix of a direct answer or a site for me, but I don't want a future where small guys get killed in intent based actions as well.
• donio 4y ago
  For those of us who prefer traditional keyword based searches are there any search engines left that actually respect your query instead of trying to guess what you mean? I don't want to have a conversation with my search engine, I want it to return links based strictly on the keywords I provide.
  • juice_bus 4y ago
    I've been using (and paying for) Kagi[0] since June of last year, I quite enjoy it. [0] https://kagi.com/ https://kagi.com/
    • whoomp12342 4y ago
      dope. What are the free limits?
      • PhilippGille 4y ago
        50 searches per 30 days: https://kagi.com/pricing https://kagi.com/pricing
  • neonnomad 4y ago
    https://search.brave.com/ https://search.brave.com/
• dang 4y ago
  Are people here actually trying this out or is it vaporware as of yet? I ask because this seems ambiguous: The new Bing is live today “for desktop limited preview,” but it appears users are only able to “ask” one of a number of preset queries and receive the same results each time. There is also a waitlist to sign up for full access in the future. If it's just an announcement of an announcement*, we should downweight this thread and wait for one that has meat on its bones. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=%22announcement%20of%20an%20announcement%22 https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...
  • elektor 4y ago
    I was able to get on by downloading the Canary version of Edge, which then prompted me to try the "new Bing".
    • basch 4y ago
      It doesn't appear real. It looks like the new interface but dumps the query into old bing. You only have access to the couple prerendered conversations.
      • neuronic 4y ago
        Is it possible that they divert 95% of traffic to old Bing and only slowly open the floodgates to the new backend? Does anyone get actual answers aside from the "Try it" examples? If not then this is already a bad move in terms of PR and makes Microsoft seem inconsistent and weird.
  • mepian 4y ago
    Yeah, it's telling me to join the waitlist when I'm trying to enter something in the chat instead of clicking on their examples.
  • veb 4y ago
    Get this, if you use Edge, with bing as search by default and join the waitlist, then another button appears "get access faster" or something, which then takes you to a page to make sure you've defaulted everything to Microsoft, and you've scanned a QR code to download a Bing mobile app. I can't be bothered _all_ of that. Mainly the addition of a new mobile app.
• vinyl7 4y ago
  I look forward to the day where tech development isn't lead by marketing keywords
• EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 4y ago
  Big question, will it require an account? As evil as Google has become, you can still search things anonymously (kinda). Having access to someone's searches is like looking directly into their brain.
  • SCLeo 4y ago
    OT, I actually wrote a short erotic novel completely in the format of their search history.
    • noman-land 4y ago
      Please post this, I would love to read it.
• joaoqalves 4y ago
  This day will be remembered as the "Bing Bang". Game changer
• LrnByTeach 4y ago
  Why Google named ChatGPT competitor as “Apprentice Bard”? Here's my take. "Apprentice is Barred from this AI race" is the phrase. "You (OpenAI) Apprentice are Barred from this AI race, because, well you are just an apprentice" To counter Sun Microsystems' dominance in the Java market, IBM named its IDE as "Eclipse."( blocking Sun). PS: To be clear, that is not my personal opinion of OpenAI, I believe OpenAI brought so much innovation to this LLM space. Just sharing what came into my head, why Google picked that name.
  • joxel 4y ago
    I figured it had to do with Bard like the D&D class, ministrels that have a way with words etc.
    • LrnByTeach 4y ago
      Thanks for that correction. my bad ,I would have googled and checked it. yes, it seems this is named related to Bard like the D&D class
  • adrianmonk 4y ago
    I don't know, but I assumed Apprentice Bard was the name for the internal testing version, and that the name for the released version will just be Bard. In other words, "apprentice" is just a cutesy variation on "beta", "testing", "pre-release", etc.
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
• finikytou 4y ago
  I always wondered if search engines like bing and google were widely used by really young people nowadays or if their entry to the internet was tiktok and maybe reddit or youtube? I suspect the old school portal/engines are less and less relevant to younger generations and somehow the medium of a general search will disappear as the world close down on globalization. some countries will def forbid chatgpt and obviously search just like it is today will be biased. the AI moderators will be in power to build a world that reflects its worst. just like they did on google or tiktok
• turingbook 4y ago
  "Applying AI to core search algorithm. We’ve also applied the AI model to our core Bing search ranking engine, which led to the largest jump in relevance in two decades. With this AI model, even basic search queries are more accurate and more relevant." The large foundational model will change lots of things!
• whoomp12342 4y ago
  You know, the other day windows 11 would not allow me to install git-scm, because it didnt come from the microsoft store. I am sure this will go well.
  • codepoet80 4y ago
    You mean like macOS since like...Yosemite?
    • pyth0 4y ago
      This is nonsense. You can install software on the mac from outside the App Store.
• Nemi 4y ago
  Ok, here is a thought. In the frame of reference of “commoditizing your complement” (see Joel on software), you could argue that Google has been doing that for years to microsoft, by releasing Chrome, ChromeOS, and Android. This commoditized Microsoft’s business model, to some extent. Now, MS responded commendably well by changing there business model, but that does not change the fact of what Google did. Would it not be amazing and poetic if Microsoft, in one fell swoop, commoditized search (which is 99% of Google’s business model)?
• userbinator 4y ago
  Until an AI can answer questions like "what 44-pad QFN has marking DM164495-12" I'm not interested. In fact I don't want conversational, I want grep. It's disturbing how much computing power is being spent on AI search when it could be used for something more like actual grep.
  • romeros 4y ago
    I used it for actual grep and it worked like magic. I copy pasted an entire reddit thread and asked it to extract out all the usernames from that thread and it was able to. Just like that!
• hintymad 4y ago
  I still remember numerous reports of more than 10 years ago how Bing could not catch up to Google, or how MS moved slowly, or how Balmer threw a chair towards a distinguished engineer, lashing out about massive loss of talent in MS. I wouldn't dream that some day MS could be a step ahead of Google, at least per their blog posts.
• neuronic 4y ago
  Rooting hard for Microsoft here because I want to see disruption in this space. I am so very tired of the crappy Google results when I search for anything that isn't a Wikipedia article. And even then I have to scroll past 6 ads first.
• michelb 4y ago
  I bet Microsoft is also going to make a killing from Teams Premium. Some nice features in there.
• redox99 4y ago
  I tried (regular) bing after this announcement, and I'm kind of surprised at some of it's flaws. 1. Visited and unvisited links look the same???? (Instead of blue vs purple). Literally a deal breaker in my case 2. No dark mode in 2023???
  • cube00 4y ago
    They need it running first so they can ask it for the code to implement dark mode.
• solarkraft 4y ago
  Google had prototypes of this (Google Assistant) for a long, long time. But they bafflingly never made it to the desktop.
• alexklarjr 4y ago
  I , as everyone, exited that instead of thinking about query and then evaluating information written by someone, can just let our corporate overlords bot provide me definitive answer.
• tester756 4y ago
  http://www.paulgraham.com/microsoft.html http://www.paulgraham.com/microsoft.html :D Shows that strategy & execution beat everything
• patientplatypus 4y ago
  [dead]
• endisneigh 4y ago
  I wonder if the ads given by this will be unblockable.
  • scarmig 4y ago
    Just train a model to break the returned text into a set of claims, evaluate each claim for likelihood of being an ad, and then excise those claims that are likely ads.
  • cube00 4y ago
    Just wait until ads are in-lined with the responses and sponsors products are prioritized if you're not specific about what you want.
    • endisneigh 4y ago
      That already seems to be happening: https://www.bing.com/search?q=I%20am%20planning%20a%20trip%20for%20our%20anniversary%20in%20September.%20What%20are%20some%20places%20we%20can%20go%20that%20are%20within%20a%203%20hour%20flight%20from%20London%20Heathrow?&iscopilotedu=1&form=MA13G7 https://www.bing.com/search?q=I%20am%20planning%20a%20trip%2... HN is not a hivemind, but it seems interesting that people are excited about this. Not only will you get unblockable ads, but you content creators also get nothing, lol. Exciting if you invest in big tech, I guess.
• croes 4y ago
  Wasn't Google accused of stealing traffic from web sites by show the results in Google instead of only linking to the pages. This is worse. So I think MS will get sued, a lot.
• MR4D 4y ago
  FTA: > Unlike ChatGPT, the new Bing can also retrieve news about recent events. In The Verge’s demos, the search engine was even able to answer questions about its own launch, citing stories published by news sites in the last hour. Game changer right there.
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• cowmix 4y ago
  Google is the new Xerox. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlBjNmXvqIM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlBjNmXvqIM
• sam345 4y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34700191 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34700191
• dudeinjapan 4y ago
  They really need to drop the name "Bing". I asked ChatGPT and the best name it came up with IMO is "Odyssey"
  • 1970-01-01 4y ago
    "Internet Expedition"
    • dudeinjapan 4y ago
      "Dora" (the Internet Explorer)
• impalallama 4y ago
  I am incredibly impressed with the demos being able to have excellent citations to more primary sources which effectively solves the biggest problem with using ChatGPT. If this works as well as they plan Bing will become the primary search engine for many.
• hankman86 4y ago
  Everyone keeps talking about Google being caught off guard, declaring a “code red” scenario and reeling the founders back in to avert an existential threat etc. I don’t personally care about Google so much. They haven’t innovated on their core product in a long time. What most of the journalistic coverage of the Bing+ChatGPT integration seems to be missing is that this is also the end of organic search traffic. Information-centric websites are the first to miss out on a lot of clicks. And as ChatGPT evolves into an assistant that performs actual jobs for you, websites that perform actual services (e.g., online shopping) may be next in line to suffer a decline in traffic.
  • alentred 4y ago
    > And as ChatGPT evolves into an assistant that performs actual jobs for you, websites that perform actual services (e.g., online shopping) may be next in line to suffer a decline in traffic. Or an alternative: websites that perform actual services will be redesigned to facilitate the integration with (their use by) ChatGPT and continue providing the value to the end user (for example, in case of online shopping, users still buy from the shop, even if ChatGPT is their primary interface). Maybe we are on the verge of developing a new standard for the ChatGPT "programming" interface.
    • chrisfrantz 4y ago
      This is what I think will happen but not sure what that will look like. I think it gets much easier if it can detect a site is on Shopify and use the unified Shopify api for purchases. Interesting new world.
• yayr 4y ago
  Google has had a huge history of poor product execution. So long it was not strongly apparent in ads and also not so much in search but many other areas. Now they again show this poor product execution and lack of customer focus in AI. The reason that they struggle is not that they don't have smart brains in their org, but that they are not able to translate that power into customer value and imagine and iterate effectively towards user space. Let's see if they can get the curve...
• stuaxo 4y ago
  So; Ask Jeeves finally comes to pass.
• timeon 4y ago
  There is this quote from Czech movie called Pelíšky: "I mean, it must have been an awful lot of work. At the same time, such nonsense, huh?"
• graeme 4y ago
  Edit: upon closer reading the workout one is impressive. I hadn’t noticed how specific the question was ——- So Bing has some sample searches. Do these seem compelling to people here? They generally took a while to output in chat. Meanwhile the answer was often staring right at me from the preview text of the search results. I tried the one for cars. Top result has multiple suitable cars and it had pictures. And I know the top results are generally unlikely to be nonsense otherwise the sites would have poor engagement and they don’t rank. ChatGPT has….something. But it isn’t obvious to me search is what it has. The existing product is already very good and fast.
• MagicMoonlight 4y ago
  Will it be like ChatGPT where you ask it a question and it says "Sorry I can't do that because I am ChatGPT, a language model." or "Sorry but drumpf bad, drumpf bad" Because I don't really want a biased search engine that's going to get snarky with me if I look up something work-related that contains no-no phrases or mentions violence.
• anigbrowl 4y ago
  I already have an OpenAI account, API keys etc, now I have to ask permission to get on a waitlist for Bing, just to find out what's different? Meh.
• godshatter 4y ago
  I guess I'm old-fashioned. I'd prefer a search engine interface with all the bells and whistles for doing complex queries instead of relying on the search engine to guess what it is I really want to see. I would trust a technical interface with lots of options and boolean logic not to give me whatever the company behind it wants me to see instead of what's really out there.
  • NoPicklez 4y ago
    Didn't think I'd see the day where using a search engine would be considered old-fashioned. You will still likely have this option, but you are a minority. The search engines response will over ever be as good as the descriptions/keywords you put into the search query. You'll find this should accelerate getting you the answer you're looking for.
• gardenhedge 4y ago
  Exciting stuff in the search space but my guess is Microsoft messes it up. They have pretty bad products all round and when they do have a good product they often mess up the next version. Google's AI tech will be as good or better. I also think the AI tech will quickly become a commodity.
• zmmmmm 4y ago
  Even if all this does is convinces people to try Bing for the novelty of using the ChatGPT features, it may cause a significant inroad to Google's dominance from whatever percentage then discover they are just fine with Bing as their search engine. Will be fascinating to see what happens.
• dagaci 4y ago
  Never under estimate Microsoft's ability to screw a "first mover advantage up" they have done this many times before. They really need to keep this thing focused and not try and use it to try and switch everyone to edge, push bing news, and install weird browser extensions....
• codeulike 4y ago
  Here's a good video of it: https://twitter.com/karenxcheng/status/1623055316350029825 https://twitter.com/karenxcheng/status/1623055316350029825 They ask "Will the IKEA Klippan loveseat fit into my 2019 Honda Odyssey if I fold down the seats?" You can see the Bing says it searching for the seat dimensions, then that its searching for the cargo dimentions of the Odyssey, then it integrates what it found out into a reply. So they've trained this thing to work out which bits it needs to go fetch from the internet.
• NoPicklez 4y ago
  Anyone notice that in some of the examples of the new Bing, it shows the AI result on the right handside and actually cites the websites it got the information from throughout its response. That's good!
• NoPicklez 4y ago
  Using the examples, it's quite good. It is actually referencing the websites where its getting its information from throughout the result. Which is great!
• InCityDreams 4y ago
  As a European, i can't wait for the EU to start the $fining process.
• primer42 4y ago
  What does this mean for DDG search? Don't they mostly use bing?
• bl4ckm0r3 4y ago
  I wonder if and, in case, how these new ai-powered search engines are going to change SEO status quo. At the moment, i think, this is only used to better understand user input, but could it be trained to extract content from text in a better way than we do today?
• Auracle 4y ago
  I wonder when they’ll integrate this into Cortana. I’d absolutely replace our Amazon Echo devices with that, if they offer it. The answers would be far better than the usual “I found this on the web…”
• m3kw9 4y ago
  Looks like a big misstep by Sundar
• mancerayder 4y ago
  I really hope AI puts Google Search out of business.
• fleddr 4y ago
  I'm sure that if this works well, users will love it. It's the second-order effects I worry about. A pretty existential one is that is bleeds the web dry. The AI is trained by a zillion websites but will never actually send you to it. It may not even know its direct sources. I think that's a pretty massive concern for anyone publishing on the web. Another one is that the AI is pretty confidentially taking the role of the bringer of truth, rather than just a proxy to an end result. Not only may that truth be incorrect, it may also be subjective/politically tuned, plus a central owner is fully in charge of whatever is the truth. Anyway, I'm sure "it'll be fine".
  • verdverm 4y ago
    When I ask ChatGPT for links or "where can I learn more about this?", it has provided good references. Doesn't mean they are necessarily the exact references, it's likely the responses draw on many at once There are examples already of people building on ChatGPT to provide references. It will be fine, we will manage through
• ipaddr 4y ago
  Will it be as censored as Chatgpt. I asked something like who are the tallest celebrity in a country and it responded that personal attributes are off limits
• habith 4y ago
  Uh, couldn’t link directly to Microsoft? https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2023/02/07/reinventing-search-with-a-new-ai-powered-microsoft-bing-and-edge-your-copilot-for-the-web/ https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2023/02/07/reinventing-sear...
  • notfed 4y ago
    "Today, we’re launching an all new, AI-powered Bing search engine and Edge browser, available in preview now at Bing.com" I'm so confused. Is Microsoft straight-up BSing?
• AndrewKemendo 4y ago
  For what it's worth, and I get zero financial or other benefit from this, but Neeva search has a really great GPT summary and query system by default AND it's a paid search tool that you can make default everywhere (iOS FF & Win FF for me). It's data policy + great search + no ads + AI Summary is just killer and has completely transformed my web experience.
• CatWChainsaw 4y ago
  SEO crap ruined search, but you can still search. Asking a chatbot is going to be promoted until you won't have any way to source the answers, and we'll rely on a big corporation's version of reality on the basis of Trust Me Bro. Great timeline, excellent job.
  • thweoriu23o423 4y ago
    [flagged]
    • mikrotikker 4y ago
      Its disturbing how quickly people fell into line. Its something I worry about the AI space when people talk about controlling it for disinfo and fake news. Just who determines what is disinformation? We saw Jacinda Ardern tell NZ that the govt was the single source of truth and not to trust anything else. That was quite disturbing, especially when they moved to cover up the (few) deaths from the vaccine. Also in NZ there is a organisation called The Disinformation Project, who received govt grants via "NZ on Air", who ironically spread disinformation themselves when they're not busy attacking people exercising their right to protest.
  • chii 4y ago
    But people were able to find stuff before the advent of search engines on the internet. Why can't that still work? And if you believe search engines are useful, you would continue to use them (may be from google, if bing decides to remove themselves). Just because bing might change into a question-answer style engine, doesn't mean you must use them. And if it turns out to be _better_, well, that's progress.
    • CatWChainsaw 4y ago
      I don't consider myself a drooling idiot, but I started using the Internet maybe a couple years after Google started existing, so I don't remember how to find stuff pre-search engine. I rather doubt the generations that came after would have the knowledge or the inclination. The generations that came after experienced computers that had become far more "user friendly", walled gardens, and a salvo of psychological manipulations designed to benefit corporations. I don't really see how it's "better" to centralize key pathways to knowledge within black boxes held by some of the most powerful tech companies on the planet that stand to greatly benefit from people doing things the way they'd prefer, without consideration or alternative. Of course if this does flop, maybe SwissCows will be the next darling. Who knows.
• plastic3169 4y ago
  When ever there is new technology people try to force old use cases into it as it somehow looks the same. When film came around conventions of theatre plays were used before the language of film was discovered. I have a feeling that we might be fitting chatAIs to search because the ui sort of looks the same, but maybe it’s a thing of it’s own.
• SunghoYahng 4y ago
  But it costs a ton of money, and how is MS going to deal with that? Someone please explain to me. If tons of people keep using ChatGPT, will MS have any money left over?
• bigbacaloa 4y ago
  Even worse AI powered searches? I can't wait to search for something technical.
• de6u99er 4y ago
  I think Microsoft is entering a potential market just by chance based on vague, if at all, product ideas. So far GPT has been trained with data generated by humans. Curious how the quality of it's output will change once it gets fed with AI generated data.
• 0x49d1 4y ago
  These are great news for the competition! Can't really test Microsoft's implementation yet, but you.com already has ChatGPT-2 integrated in their search for some time and it's really OK, I find myself to use it more and more instead of old search: you just get the answer + aggregation of sources + other results if you need more deep checks.
• valeg 4y ago
  They should buy Ask Jeeves brand for the lulz.
• wonderfuly 4y ago
  Use https://chatgpt4google.com https://chatgpt4google.com to get that today
• college_physics 4y ago
  Fans of privacy-first browsers and search engines should take notice. The eventual mode (or modes) chatgpt and similar language algorithms get integrated will not settle for a while but it is likely that it will do in some shape or form. Thinking about and building apps and services and ethical business models that use this new toolkit to good effect seems more opportune than normal.
• skc 4y ago
  I'm actually surprised at how many people on HN see this as a big deal. I can only assume it's because there is a lot of confidence in Satya Nadella to execute well. I can't imagine this same announcement being met with anything other than "meh" under Ballmer for example.
• Bharath1234 4y ago
  Since the Transformer decoder cannot be parallelized during inference, how can it be cost effective at scale?!
• sublinear 4y ago
  so... fake and gay?
• vicentwu 4y ago
  I can't wait to see the model's ability of saying "They don't know", which I think is an important feature if it serves as a search engine, because it can reduce the amount of generated ramblings which it's actually really good at.
• replwoacause 4y ago
  I just watched the highlights from the Microsoft reveal, and it was incredibly dull. Their presentation was so uninspiring that I had to close it and move on. It's strange how they managed to take something exciting and make it so uninteresting. Oh, and I tried it out and wasn't impressed either.