40 ms·

The end of the manual transmission is near?

• B1FF_PSUVM 4y ago
  Well, another reason is that electric motors generally do not need gears like combustion engines do to stay at an optimal rotational speed.
  • beebeepka 4y ago
    Formula E cars have gears. I guess they are still needed. Would love to learn why. L
    • grzm 4y ago
      https://www.hewland.com/formula-e-transmission-evolution/ https://www.hewland.com/formula-e-transmission-evolution/ > You may ask why an electric race car needs a transmission in the first place? Using a gearbox helps you to extract the maximum efficiency possible from the electric motor. High Performance electric motor efficiency varies greatly depending on its architecture and design philosophy. Some motors are high revving – perhaps as high as 25,000rpm, while others only reach 9,000rpm. They will be delivering very different torque bands; using a transmission helps you keep the motor in the most efficient operating range possible. > There’s another fundamental reason why Formula E cars use a transmission: because the rules say so. The regulations stipulate that the motor must deliver drive to both wheels through a single mechanical transmission, so you need at least one gear set to accomplish this final drive. The electric motors used in Formula E have some of the highest power-to-weight ratio of any automotive motor in the world so that transmission has its work cut out for it.
    • hedora 4y ago
      This article has power vs torque curves for an ICE and electric motor: http://thecartech.com/subjects/auto_eng/Auto_Eng23.htm http://thecartech.com/subjects/auto_eng/Auto_Eng23.htm The EV curve is not exactly flat, so it's worth it for Formula E to bother with a transmission. For consumer cars the extra tiny efficiency boost doesn't matter. No idea what the text of the article says, but based on the figures, it goes into more detail than me.
  • Wistar 4y ago
    They make all their torque at 0 RPM.
• gtirloni 4y ago
  I drove manual for 22 years. Bought my first auto this year and I'm never going back. seriously. I thought I knew better than the car when to change gears since I've seen some pretty bad auto, but the latest versions are just great.
• WalterBright 4y ago
  I love the singing of tires at their limits, the surging roar of a built engine digging in, and the yowl of a well-executed heel-toe downshift.
  • sbaiddn 4y ago
    Aint it great when that heel toe the shifter slips in with no resistance and the de-clutching didnt affect the engine at all? Perfect engine speed match. Perfect syncro match. The apex of the curve behind you and full throttle ahead
    • WalterBright 4y ago
      Yup. It's magical being one with the machine on the perfect line in a curve, easing the wheel straight as you roll back on the gas.
      • cancerhacker 4y ago
        Damn, looks like I picked the wrong millennium to quit smoking. That thread was <chefs-kiss/>
• sufehmi 4y ago
  I bought my car new about $ 12,000 - then a few weeks ago got problem with its automatic transmission, and do you know how much it's gonna cost me? $ 7,600 I never heard such thing with cars with manual transmission.
  • albrewer 4y ago
    It happens, but they're easier to tear down and repair / rebuild. Main problem that occurs in a manual is the synchronization gear mechanisms going bad (so you have to do the 1940's double de-clutching to manually synchronize), actual wear on the gears being worse because you can actually grind them, and clutch replacements (they are a wear part - essentially a giant brake pad between the engine and transmission).
• ggm 4y ago
  It's faster, it's more fuel economic and it reduces engine wear
  • jjgreen 4y ago
    ... and most of all it's fun, dropping a gear before accelerating out of a roundabout gets you right in the pit of the stomach
    • noizejoy 4y ago
      You can also do that with a decent automatic transmission.
      • Swizec 4y ago
        Ah yes the good ol' "Tap the breaks before an overtake" trick. Just as god intended. /s
        • noizejoy 4y ago
          I thought we were slowing down due to the roundabout anyway? So that’s a different context than what you’re describing?
          • williamscales 4y ago
            We've slowed nearly to a stop for the roundabout, entered it when it was clear, and now need to put on some speed to get going again at the speed of the other traffic.
          • Swizec 4y ago
            Yes I said overtake, not roundabout. The related context is that automatics can’t predict what gear you’re going to need before you need it. This leads to a lag that doesn’t exist with manuals that automatics compensate for by having oversized and overpowered engines. This is most noticeable when overtaking or driving on twisty mountain roads. One way people work around it is by tapping the brakes as a signal to the transmission to shift down. Another way to notice this weird behavior with automatics is to see how much noise american cars make when trying to take off fast from a stop light. Lots of noise thanks to wide open throttle, not much acceleration because the (cheap) gearbox keeps shifting up and reducing torque.
• carride 4y ago
  https://archive.ph/vf4Yr https://archive.ph/vf4Yr
• electric_mayhem 4y ago
  Nothing protects your car from theft by millennials like a manual transmission.
  • formerkrogemp 4y ago
    And here lies electric_mayhem, buried with the last manual transmission, just as he always wanted. No grave robber will disturb his grave, nor know how to use his buried treasure.
    • selimthegrim 4y ago
      Four (or six) under the floor, if you will. I’ll get my coat.
    • electric_mayhem 4y ago
      That’s… I genuinely want that on my headstone someday.
  • FractalParadigm 4y ago
    I know it's a memel, but as a millennial with a 6MT, I know far more people in my age group who own manual cars, than older people (say over 45) who can drive one period. My brother an I are capable, as is my dad; one of my four aunts can, and none of my 7 grandparents can either. If I start looking at co-workers (fairly broad and distributed age range of 20-70) the same rings true, the only people daily-driving manuals are under 40, while easily 2/3 of that 20-45 age group can drive manual; conversely of those in the 46+ range, it seems closer to 1/3 are capable of driving, and almost all of them because they have a manual classic. People seem to forget the automatic transmission started mass production in 1939, and take-rates in the US well-exceeded 50% by the late '60s/early '70s.
  • zahllos 4y ago
    Maybe American millennials. When I did my test in the UK manuals were most cars. You can do your test in an automatic but if you do, you can only drive automatics legally. Which can cause some problems especially if you want to hire a car. Almost all the millennials my age can drive and and a good percentage probably own a manual. Automatics are gaining ground in the UK but they're still typically more expensive. I suspect 17 year olds are still learning to drive manuals in the UK right now. Sorry to ruin the joke ;)
• recursivedoubts 4y ago
  I reiterate my compromise proposal: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32397975 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32397975 I will give up my manual transmission, if you will bring back pull-knobs, twist knobs and other tactile switches for the main controls of my vehicle, with the appropriate tactile feedback at set points so I can set them without looking. After thinking on it, I am going to raise my demands, however: you also need to produce cars that are as visually appealing and reasonably sized as in the 50s and 60s. Fire all your designers, go back to whatever your models were in 1965, and begin anew. When in doubt, don't.
  • taneq 4y ago
    Are we rolling back all off the safety, efficiency and emissions regulations created since ‘65 too?
    • falcolas 4y ago
      Entirely unnecessary to meet the parents “demands”.
      • KennyBlanken 4y ago
        Mechanical controls are safety-related - it's harder and more expensive to engineer a crash-safe interior with knobs and such. That's why with modern crash testing you saw a very rapid depreciation of pull-out knobs and the like. It's also harder to manufacture and repair. Electronic controls? You run power and a data bus to the unit, and you're done. I don't think people understand how much engineering goes into a dash/interior in a passenger car, at least from a company that prioritizes crash safety. Everything is designed to give just the right amount when hit by a body flying around in crash. Even the lower part of the dash is designed to crush just the right amount if you "submarine" in a head-on crash - enough to stop you, but not enough to shatter your knees.
        • bityard 4y ago
          On the other hand, there will be fewer crashes due to the driver having to take his/her eyes of the road in order to squint at which identical button out of 25 turns the blower down one notch.
• lapcat 4y ago
  There's nothing worse than getting stuck in traffic going up a slick hill in a Midwest winter with a manual transmission. Your car goes backward!
  • progman32 4y ago
    In an old manual transmission, that's true. Modern cars have anti roll back systems. But also, use the hand brake.
    • moondev 4y ago
      I remember my 2007 bmw 335i had that, but my current car, 2008 audi a5 does not hold when clutch in on a hill. Do most manual transmission cars now do this?
      • hnov 4y ago
        Pretty much anything that’s equipped with stability control (requires hardware to actuate brakes)
    • bergenty 4y ago
      Modern cars have automatic transmission where we don’t have to deal with archaic problems.
      • sbaiddn 4y ago
        They are also incredibly frustrating to drive unless they have a massive engine with plenty of torque. Honestly, how have automatics gotten worse in the past ten years?
        • luxuryballs 4y ago
          Thank the EPA.
    • bpodgursky 4y ago
• bl0b 4y ago
  I hope that someday there will be an option for an electric car with a manual transmission. Regardless of how small the market would be and how little practical sense it would make
  • elboru 4y ago
    I don’t have any data to back this, but my guess is that a big portion of those who prefer stick will also prefer gas vs electric.
    • carom 4y ago
      I have a manual (2018), I'd buy an electric for the acceleration but they need to make it a $30k autocross car. Don't mind if it's a death trap, just fast and cheap.
      • Wistar 4y ago
        Perhaps add one of these Ford electric crate motors to… something cheap and light? https://www.cjponyparts.com/ford-performance-electric-crate-motor-eluminator-mustang-mach-e-gt-2021-2022/p/M9000MACHE https://www.cjponyparts.com/ford-performance-electric-crate-... Or, for a little more oomph, this "Tesla crate motor" by ReVolt: https://revoltsystems.com/ https://revoltsystems.com/
    • coenhyde 4y ago
      I like driving manual and I like my EV. But I don't want a manual in my EV. Just give me an EV without all the traction control smarts. Give me access to the raw power so I can control how and when it slips.
  • Wistar 4y ago
    It'd be fairly weird though since the electrics don't idle. Starting off would be easy: just put it in gear and then accelerate without ever having to slip the clutch or even know about the clutch "bite" point. Be a bit like using a traditional starter motor with a manual already in gear and the clutch engaged. The clutch would probably last a very long time.
• tjr225 4y ago
  Manual transmission fetishism is perplexing to me. I’ve owned two manual transmission cars… an old Hyundai Elantra and an even older Toyota pickup. I can’t think of a single reason I would not rather have the automatic version of either. I also presume manual transmissions will continue to be available to the enthusiasts and professionals/sportspeople who have an actual reason to desire them.
  • forgotmypw17 4y ago
    I think it is about feeling more involved in the process and more in control of what the car is doing.
    • tjr225 4y ago
      Even more perplexing given the irony that pretty much everyone here is automating some part of everyday life.
  • kyleee 4y ago
    neither of those cars sounds particularly fun to drive, so that's probably where your disconnect is. it's very fun to row through the gears of a moderately sporty car; that's where people's "fetishm" (more accurately "preference") comes from
    • lapcat 4y ago
      There's definitely a difference in transmissions. I learned stick on a generic crappy car, but I once drove a nicer, more expensive car with a manual, and it was quite pleasant. Shifting gears was so much smoother than what I was accustomed to.
    • hedora 4y ago
      Back when mustangs used gasoline and were sports cars, I compared a V6 (non-turbo) manual with a V8 automatic. The V6 was much more fun to drive and got better fuel economy. My tiny ultra-efficient EV blows them both out of the water on mountain roads though. There's one exception: the RWD EV's front end likes to skid while decelerating into turns. I prefer the Mustang's habit of breaking the rear end loose while accelerating out of turns.
• jgwil2 4y ago
  They're more fun to drive if you're driving for fun, but most people aren't and commuting in heavy traffic in a manual transmission car sucks. I am sure manuals will live on for a relatively small group of hobbyists, but there's not a lot of reason for the vast majority of drivers to use them.
  • randomdata 4y ago
    > They're more fun to drive if you're driving for fun I've always preferred a good CVT when it comes to fun. There's nothing like being snapped from 0-100 with no pause in the action. And the scream of a hydrostatic on a 30,000 pound combine is a treat. Manuals might be more fun than your average slush box, but in the grand scheme of things...
• nimbius 4y ago
  eh for cars maybe, but an automatic test for your commercial drivers license to operate a tractor trailer comes with some pretty severe restrictions. they're nice for day drivers like the beer trucks and FedEx mules but regional and over the road/interstate drivers can't upgrade to tankers or low boy trailers in most states unless they can jockey a stick. auto boxes on semi trucks also do some squirrley things on long hills and descents where control is pretty darn important.
  • falcolas 4y ago
    I picture this is, and will continue to, change with the passing of time. DCT and CVT will likely come for semi trucks as they came for motorcycles and cars.
    • deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  • mbostleman 4y ago
    I got my CDL in 1990 on a Silver Eagle tour bus. I was already comfortable with manual transmissions, but the double clutching blew my mind. It was a whole other level of understanding what all had to happen to transfer power.
• travisgriggs 4y ago
  I found that manual transmissions were good for creating a higher level of engagement in my teen drivers. They literally became more aware and focused on driving and less scary when I made them learn to drive a stick. Our last stick, a peppy Mazda 3 imported from Canada is the car they all beg to drive when they visit now from college.
• legitster 4y ago
  I wouldn't jump to this conclusion just yet! Porsche, Ferrari, etc all commanded huge premiums this year for their manual versions. Specifically among younger buyers and first time buyers! You even see this effect downmarket - Toyota promised to never make a manual version of their Supra, then just this last year they put together a cobbled transmission to save their car. Manuals are also an order of magnitude less complex and cheaper - so automakers will still have some incentive to include them on small budget cars to keep down their base MSRP (even if they don't offer a ton of them). It helps that in most other countries, manuals are still king. Finally, manual transmissions are overrepresented on the used market. Because manual cars are roughly half as complex as automatics, that translates to many fewer components going bad over time. Less likely to die = cars that stay circulating in the market longer. So if you buy used cars, the options for manuals increases dramatically.
  • idatum 4y ago
    My VW GTI with 6 gear manual is such a joy. And what I fail to convey to my GenZ kids is the simplicity of it. Once I started the engine on a hill by engaging clutch. Kids were puzzled, but not so impressed. Oh well.
    • iancmceachern 4y ago
      I love push/roll starting a manual car. One of my fondest memories is push starting my Dad's (lower end) Ferrari in the liquor store parking lot.
      • mrcartmeneses 4y ago
        Lovely example of downplaying one’s class ;P
    • bergenty 4y ago
      It’s like showing them an etch a sketch when they’re used to iPads.
    • kfajdsl 4y ago
• sprior 4y ago
  I've been saying for years I'll give up my manual transmission when the car doesn't have a transmission - EV.
• CapitalistCartr 4y ago
  I was fortunate enough to have a generous older sister with a well-worn Maverick. I don't ever regret driving a manual, but modern manufacturers are driving cars to be as boring as possible.
• rad_gruchalski 4y ago
  > it’s not something you master overnight. I’m not ashamed to mention that it took me a few sessions in a parking lot to get the fundamentals down This kind of line always confuses me. I mean, I remember my first driving lesson in the UK. Guy arrived in a BMW 116, manual. He said to me: what is there to explain, you get in and drive. So I got in and drove. Did my first hour, took 5 minutes to get comfortable with the clutch and shifting. Why do the people in the US make it such a big ordeal? Is it like a badge of honour?
  • wrigby 4y ago
    I guess it depends on the car you started in and how easy it is to stall. My Jeep Cherokee with an inline 6 would have been an incredibly easy car to learn on, but my RX-8 - with about the same amount of low-end torque as a sewing machine - was much less forgiving. If it had been my first manual car, it would have taken ages to feel comfortable. And to your question, the answer is actually yes. Because fewer folks in the US drive manual cars, the ones that do are often proud of having the skill.
    • zahllos 4y ago
      > I guess it depends on the car you started in and how easy it is to stall. I had similar experiences. I am British also, so, also learned in and mostly drive manuals. My instructor's car would stall if you looked at it funny. A secondhand car I drove after I passed my test would almost never stall at all. I don't remember the makes - I enjoy driving but I'm definitely not into cars that much, sorry. But there's definitely quite a bit of variation in how cars handle and even someone like me who doesn't care that much for the internal details realises they'll need to “figure out" a new manual car when they first drive it.
    • EvanAnderson 4y ago
      > I guess it depends on the car you started in and how easy it is to stall. 100% this. My 5-speed Jetta TDi was actually hard to stall w/ all its torque (even at idle). I learned on a 3-cyl. Geo Metro, though, and it was laughably easy to stall.
  • 4y ago
• emp 4y ago
  If I could afford a Porsche I would still get a manual option. Changing gears cleanly, heel-toe blipping the throttle when gearing down, getting the right gear at the right time - simple pleasures. It seems the more refined cars become the less character they have. Even the equivalent cars to my old dependable friend feel like lesser cars. Annoy CVTs, electric power steering, and finishes that feel cheap. And windows - I have nice big windows where I can see everywhere.
  • google234123 4y ago
    Dual clutch transmissions are pretty fun in a sports car.
  • bergenty 4y ago
    Feels like a bunch of extra work for a shittier experience. If I wanted an experience I would ride a horse.
    • FPGAhacker 4y ago
      That's like saying dancing is a shitty way to experience music.
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  • yawnxyz 4y ago
    Dual clutch in more expensive (fast) Porsche's are a lot more fun bc you have less to worry/freak out about going at speed (I'm not that good of a driver...). In cheap Porsches like the Boxster the manual is a ton more fun, since those cars don't really go very fast, so you feel more engaged. But Porsche manuals are kind of janky and notchy in those. Maybe I'm just reminiscing "good ole times" but the manual in my S2000 was and is still the best manual I've ever driven.
• rabuse 4y ago
  I ride a motorcycle most of the time, and I will always love manually pulling the clutch and clunking into the next gear; gives me more of a man and machine bond.
  • NoPicklez 4y ago
    Growing up I raced motocross where changing gears, rev matching etc became second nature. Even on two stroke bikes were you typically perform more gear changes than on a four stroke engine But I must admit, I struggled a little in a car. Car's required much finer movements than I was used to.
    • epalm 4y ago
      Don’t sell yourself short, aside from some select Italian brands, motorcycles usually have wet clutches (clutch basket bathed in oil) and are quite forgiving compare to the usually dry clutch in cars.
  • epalm 4y ago
    Even on 2 wheels the automatic transmission is coming. Honda’s been perfecting a DCT for over a decade, and by some accounts it’s pretty sharp.
• aaaaaaaaaaab 4y ago
  I’ll stay manual until I go electric. Every time I’ve tried automatic transmissions I had the feeling that the computer was struggling to figure out what I’m gonna do (upshift, downshift, accelerate slowly, accelerate agressively?) based on the limited input available. It always felt annoying compared to the direct control with a manual.
  • xnyan 4y ago
    Which automatic have you tried most recently? I suspect it’s somewhat older than you may think, because even moderate quality automatics don’t often have that kind of constant gear hunting anymore. The ZF Friedrichshafen 8HP was a game changer for autos that don’t feel terrible but also relatively affordable, and they are everywhere now.
    • aaaaaaaaaaab 4y ago
      Most recent was a 2021 BMW 330i. Before that a 2019 Renault Clio RS Line.
  • euroderf 4y ago
    How about an automatic that only shifts when you want it to, with control via a headband ?
  • phatfish 4y ago
    Ive always found automatics difficult to drive in the city, where they are suppose to make things easier. They just don't have the level of control i can get from a manual for quick acceleration to get out of side roads into traffic. Even in the "sport" mode i've found them sluggish, and it was a fairly new rental a few years ago. Maybe the high end models get the really responsive automatic gearboxes, but i suspect not everyone can afford that, compared to any old cheap manual that can do the same thing. Now, electric wont have that problem as i understand, so happy to drive without gears then.
• jlkuester7 4y ago
  IMHO, manual transmissions are like hand-crank windows. Automatic (windows and transmissions) are more performant (with less "manual" intervention). That being said, I tend to prefer the manual option for both of these, especially on vehicles I plan to own long-term. They just work. If they do break, they do not take a rocket scientist to fix (or require totally replacing a component.)
• 2143 4y ago
  In my country manual used to be the default until as recently as 5 years ago; now automakers as well as customers are shifting towards automatics in a big way. They're just super convenient in crowded cities. Whether I want a manual or an automatic depends on the nature of the car. If it's a small fun-to-drive car — like a Mini Cooper, BMW 3 series, porsches etc — I prefer manual. But if it's a large luxury sedan or large SUV, then I will opt for automatic.
• eric4smith 4y ago
  Manual transmissions are dead. I grew up learning to drive a manual transmission car. Awesome. I loved the feeling of driving and shifting gears up the hilly, mountainous, twisty horrible roads in Jamaica. Exhilarating! But cars got better. I got older, and now automatic transmissions are so much more efficient than manual transmissions * for ordinary people *. We're not talking about people who love driving here. We are talking about people who drive an ordinary car. People who just want to commute and relax. We are not talking about Porsche or Konignsegg's (sp) latest car with a manual transmission. These days I'm in a taxi in Thailand almost every day, and half of the drivers use a manual transmission and the other half use an automatic transmission. I think the reason is that cars with manual transmissions are older and cheaper. But at the same time, the driving experience in those taxis with the manual transmission is horrible. Herky-jerky, and most of the drivers don't even know how to use the manual correctly. The world changes. It is what it is.
  • mnw21cam 4y ago
    Huh? I haven't seen or heard of anyone I know driving an automatic transmission car since 2005 or so, and that was a bizarre oddity at the time.
  • masklinn 4y ago
    > I got older, and now automatic transmissions are so much more efficient than manual transmissions * for ordinary people *. It’s not just ordinary people. The opposite, if anything. F1 and rally cars haven’t been manual for decades. I don’t think any modern super is manual. Though with the ev-ification the point is moot as save for a few rare exceptions they’re single-gear.
    • vlan0 4y ago
      While true, the motivating factors for F1 and mass production vehicles are not the same. F1 is pure min/max. Which of course means manual is gone. But min/max on my GTI means I lose connection with the vehicle and my ability to drive matters less. For what? .4 faster 0-60 or 1/4? Eh
• iancmceachern 4y ago
  I bet they'll eventually make electric cars with manual gearboxes and gearing to simulate this experience in an EV. You can already do this on your own with things like thr Ford EV crate motor that you can just bolt in any old car.
  • z2 4y ago
    Along these lines, they already virtual gearboxes in China for license exams as fleets got electrified but the rules require passing with a manual transmission for a full license. Gear shifts and crucially, stalling all simulated with software. The electric motor, with its infinite torque, doesn't need real hardware gearboxes. https://jalopnik.com/this-chinese-electric-car-designed-for-driving-schools-1844071179 https://jalopnik.com/this-chinese-electric-car-designed-for-...
  • bergenty 4y ago
    Why though? Unless you’ve grown up with it there is no nostalgia. It’s just a sub par experience from every perspective.
    • iancmceachern 4y ago
      That's exactly it, lots of people grew up with it and enjoy the skill of it. I just came back from Monterrey Motorsports Week where lots of rich old guys race many decades old race cars around the track. Again, inferior in every way to a modern car yet its a thing, a big thing.
• hedora 4y ago
  Honestly, I don't understand why manufacturers are spending any money at all designing new ICE power trains. I can sort of see the argument for hybrids, but charging networks will make them obsolete very soon. On the other hand, I also expect politicians to pull in the 2035 mandatory phase outs of gas vehicles.
  • ansible 4y ago
    > I can sort of see the argument for hybrids, but charging networks will make them obsolete very soon. Eh, I don't know about that. The current-gen Prius can easily get over 600 miles on a tank of gas if you aren't a lead foot. And a refill takes 5 minutes. For longer trips, that still makes quite a difference.
    • hedora 4y ago
      I suppose some people can cope with sustained 10 hour drives broken up with five minute bio breaks, but I cannot. Also, unlike with gasoiline, you don't need to supervise an EV while it charges. Stopping for 30 minutes (bathroom breaks included in that time) every 5 hours doesn't seem too onerous to me.
      • ansible 4y ago
        How fast are you driving that a 30 minute charge (even at a level 3 charger) gets you sufficient range for 5 hours of driving? It should be closer to an hour of charging I'd think, if you are driving at highway speeds.
• blackfawn 4y ago
  I doubt I'll never buy an automatic transmission vehicle. If that means never buying a new car after some point, then so be it. I've had quite a few manual transmission cars over the years and have driven them through all the things people complain about like steep hills in icy winters, stop and go traffic for an hour or two commute, etc. and I'd still go for a MT every time. Not only is it cheaper and less complex, I thoroughly enjoy driving a manual over an automatic. Every AT I've ever driven (rentals, friend's vehicles, etc.) have just felt boring and in some limited cases, less in control.
  • bergenty 4y ago
    Manual is stupid. Automatics have been better than manual for a while and who the hell wants to spend all that time changing gears for no reason. Boring is the silliest rationalization there is.
    • RamRodification 4y ago
      You prefer thing?! Me mad!
      • bergenty 4y ago
        It not so much the prefer thing it’s the fact that it’s backed up by thin rationalizations.
    • legitster 4y ago
    • donkarma 4y ago
      you need to drink more gasoline, it makes all my angry opinions disappear
  • fortran77 4y ago
    You'll never own an electric car?
• quacked 4y ago
  I would pay $25,000 cash for a new manual transmission '00s-style mid-sized pickup with hand-crank windows and knobs for the temperature and radio. Last time I drove a car from after 2018 it started automatically keeping pace with the car in front of me on the highway, and you couldn't manually close the trunk but instead had to push a button and wait for it to close. I hate modern cars.
  • chucksmash 4y ago
    You're in luck, that's about what manual transmission '00s pick up trucks with hand-crank windows are going for these days.
    • quacked 4y ago
      I had to amend my comment to say "new", because you're completely right... the last Tacoma I test drove (automatic) had 290k on it, the transmission slipped during all gear changes, and they weren't taking a dime under $9k. I have no doubt they eventually found a buyer, too. Same thing is happening in power tools and large appliances. Things used to work, I guess.
      • chucksmash 4y ago
        I reread after I posted, saw the "new" and was wondering how I'd missed that. I was also looking at Rangers and Tacomas earlier this year. I've seen pre-2020 model year Tacomas listed for $45k. Surreal to think, " Hmm that 4 year old, used mid-size pickup is a little pricey, maybe it's better to get something more frugal like a BMW."
        • ghaff 4y ago
          Used car prices have been pretty insane recently. I bought a new vehicle to replace my ~13 year old Toyota 4Runner with some very obvious, and not wholly cosmetic, physical damage and got a $15K trade-in for it. I was shocked.
  • calvinmorrison 4y ago
• iamevn 4y ago
  I love driving manuals, learned on an 5 speed New Beetle and mostly drive a 2012 Mazda 6 now. My partner has a newer automatic Mazda 3 and it just feels wrong to have the car guess what I want lagging behind me rather than me just telling the car directly ahead of when I need it. The only argument that's swayed me away from being entirely on the side of manual cars is that if I'm out hiking with friends who I've driven to the trail and who can't drive my car and I get hurt in a way that prevents me from driving then we could end up stranded. The next car I buy will likely be electric so it ends up not mattering anyways.
  • lfowles 4y ago
    With a little instruction anyone can drive a manual poorly :)
  • sbaiddn 4y ago
    This happened to my sister. She dislocated her right shoulder and among her friends: - Two didnt know how to drive - One didnt know how to drive stick - the guy who ended up driving her to the hospital, didn't have a drivers license. I told her next time to get it rolling on second, leave it there, and drive then herself. But a good argument for autos is engine longevity. The autos really pamper it
• pier25 4y ago
  > As sad as it may be, manual vehicles make up a miniscule percentage of the current market share. Is the author talking about the world or the US? AFAIK the vast majority of vehicles sold in Europe are manual. Not sure about the rest of the world. I'm from Spain and I've never seen an AT car there. I'm sure they exist though, probably. I now live in Mexico where AT is very common and I've gotten used to it. I think the best AT is better than the best MT, but I think the average MT is way better than the average AT. I'd be totally happy driving MT.
  • radicaldreamer 4y ago
    Average MT cars also last a lot longer than AT cars… although with cars these days it’s almost as much about the software experience and interior than long term longevity so the market is really changing.
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  • antegamisou 4y ago
    > Is the author talking about the world or the US? World = USA for something like 90% of Internet posts/videos.
    • wil421 4y ago
      Funny, you’re reading an American news aggregate site about an American publication called Popular Mechanics. Why wouldn’t you expect Popular Mechanics to be talking about the American market?
      • antegamisou 4y ago
        Because the world does not revolve around the US. But certainly it's hard for anyone to realize that when they've been brainwashed for an entire century that they live in the greatest country in the galaxy.
        • 4y ago
• 29athrowaway 4y ago
  Read the story of how actor Anton Yelchin died.
  • insightcheck 4y ago
    Yelchin's case looks like a consequence of an unconventional user design for the gearstick, rather than a consequence of manual cars in general. From The Washington Post [0]: "The parents of Anton Yelchin, the “Star Trek” actor who died in 2016 when his SUV rolled down his driveway and trapped him against a security gate, have reached a settlement with the makers of Jeep Grand Cherokee. "[..] [In 2015], [the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration] began investigating the unconventional gearstick design on these cars, which was causing crashes because drivers were mistakenly shifting to neutral when they thought they were shifting to park. "With a regular gearstick, drivers choose a transmission option (park, reverse, neutral, drive, etc.) by moving the stick into the corresponding notch or detent. Drivers can feel the stick settle into position. "But a new, different, design was used in the cars affected by the recall, which include certain recent models of the Chrysler 300, Dodge Charger, and Jeep Grand Cherokee." [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2018/03/22/actor-anton-yelchin-was-crushed-to-death-by-his-suv-his-parents-just-settled-with-fiat-chrysler/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/w...
    • 29athrowaway 4y ago
      It was an automatic transmission not a manual transmission car. Manual = {1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, R}
      • insightcheck 4y ago
        Thanks, that makes much more sense. I was visualizing the problem vehicle as a stick shift with the neutral in any of position but the center (aka in an "in gear" position), which in hindsight wouldn't work.
• Grazester 4y ago
  Koenigseggs just made a car with a manual automatic! https://www.topgear.com/car-news/supercars/heres-how-koenigseggs-new-manualautomatic-cc850-gearbox-works https://www.topgear.com/car-news/supercars/heres-how-koenigs...
  • nunb 4y ago
    This company (and the founder) are just a bunch of mechanical geniuses. Other than in pure-electric, where they partnered with Rimac, they have driven so much innovation, especially with ICE: form-factors, alternatives to camshafts (free-valve), even drive-mechanisms, manufacturing techniques, wheels etc. They're extremely humble and low-key about their inventions too, though they come out of seemingly nowhere, I don't think, for example, that anybody expected this latest innovation, because the consensus has been "manual is dead" since the new sports cars like Porsche, Ford Mustang and various others are ditching it for pure performance reasons (0-60 times). The new manual looks amazing with its gated shifter, very Pagani Huayra-like. Their whole youtube channel (especially the invention videos, which are very humble for the sheer audacity of what they achieve) is interesting, but here's the link to the manual-automatic video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LfkTodFuxg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LfkTodFuxg
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• freetime2 4y ago
  Adding to the list of places where manual transmissions are still common - I still see them in a lot of Japanese kei trucks[1]. These are super minimalist trucks used for agricultural and other jobs that cost less than $7,500. Upgrading to a CVT transmission adds an extra $500 or so to the price - which seems worth it to me - but when you consider that a lot of the work these are used for is low-margin to begin with, I can understand why people want to keep costs down. I think manual transmissions are increasing in popularity though as a lot of farmers are aging, and lose confidence in their ability to operate a manual transmission. [1] https://www.daihatsu.co.jp/lineup/truck/ https://www.daihatsu.co.jp/lineup/truck/
  • panda88888 4y ago
    Those are also very popular in Taiwan. They are essentially the pickup trucks equivalent. The nickname for these cars is “Make A Fortune Car” (or make money car).
  • freetime2 4y ago
    Oops, should read "I think automatic transmissions are increasing in popularity"
• sacrosancty 4y ago
  > Higher gears require fewer revs on the highway, leading to improved gas mileage. He seems to be suffering from the common misunderstanding that higher revs = higher fuel consumption. Those extra gears aren't at the top end to reduce torque at high speed (what?), they're spread more uniformly to keep the engine operating in an efficient or powerful region.
  • rightbyte 4y ago
    > misunderstanding that higher revs = higher fuel consumption That is a good approximation. Each revolution has to do a somewhat fixed amount of work due to resistance. However too low revs will mess up milage too due to bad combustion.
    • euroderf 4y ago
      A question tho. A manual transmission makes engine braking possible. But I never quite understood whether engine braking actually does suck a lot more gas thru the carb. In other words, when your foot is off the gas but there is high airflow thru the carb, does it draw gas ?
      • lagadu 4y ago
        For cars with carburetors, yes it does use a little fuel because some air will get sucked into the engine. Fuel injected cars use none because they simply don't activate the injectors if you're not pressing the gas pedal.
      • rightbyte 4y ago
        Modern cars use injection systems and usually cut of injection when you request no torque (unless the motor need to keep idle rpm to not die). Note that engine braking is possible with automatic too.
    • sacrosancty 4y ago
      Resistance in the engine isn't a major source of power loss. RPM should be whatever is optimal for the power output. You don't reduce highway fuel consumption more and more by using a higher and higher gear because then the engine is running below its optimal rpm for efficiency.
• analog31 4y ago
  I probably own my last manual car, a Scion XA. When I was a teenager, driving stick was fun. It conferred a feeling of skill and exclusiveness, and also a way to drive like a teenager despite an underpowered engine on my way to my cello lesson. Today, I've paid my dues. I've pushed the lever back and forth, and stepped on the pedal, probably millions of times. It makes me feel like I'm in one of those psychology experiments, where they see how many times a rat will push a button in order to earn a pellet of food. But also, driving has stopped being fun, due to congestion. Today it's just a chore. Of course it's a matter of personal preference, I get that. Today, I like everything automatic. Get in, step on the pedal, go. Step on the other pedal, stop. Even better than automatic tranny, is adaptive cruise control. That's like night and day when on the highway.
  • lobotryas 4y ago
    Call me a teenager because, years later, I still enjoy the things you mention about driving stick. The difference is that I own two cars: a boring and comfy automatic for DD and a manual Porsche for the weekends.
  • _huayra_ 4y ago
    All of the "smart driving" stuff like adaptive cruise control is why I finally bought my first non-MT car. I guess the manual was more fun (although I had it living in a condo complex with a ludicrously steep driveway -> goodbye clutch :( ), but the amount of ease adaptive cruise control gives me for those long highway drives is well worth it.
• greenthrow 4y ago
  This article misses mentioning that by far most EVs have no gear changing at all. The Porsche Taycan has 2 gears as did the original Tesla Roadster. Pretty much every other EV has one. So it's not only that manuals have been losing ground to automatics, but automatics have their days numbered as well. Also grouping dual clutch transmissions like the PDK with regular old torque converter automatics is extremely silly.
  • _4pnn 4y ago
    But, ... imitation is the new game- the new '24 electric Dodge Charger will supposedly purposely come with gears ... and air baffles. Baffles, to generate 'engine' sounds because speakers are too fake, and gears to make it seem like arriving to the next intersection is a series of arm wrestling steeple chases despite having a steadily controlled torque curve. To be fair, plenty of internal combustion cars prior to this rising electric era have embraced sound issues and overcompensated. Like the Mustang engine sound passthrough to entertainment system speakers, and the GT-86 / FRS / BRZ engine sound tube passing through the firewall.
  • roelschroeven 4y ago
    The article feels like it's about a decade out of date. These days the issue has largely shifted from manual vs automatic to ICE vs hybrid vs full electric, with the obvious consequences for transmission type.
• pengaru 4y ago
  Well so is the end of the ICE said transmission bolts up to, good riddance through that lens. Now where's my EV MX-5 without any self-driving and touchscreen/smartphone-on-wheels garbage?
  • BFLpL0QNek 4y ago
    There’s a bunch of EV kits appearing for classic vehicles. It’s looking like if you want an electric vehicle without non of the other nonsense that comes with new vehicles the conversion kits will be the way to go.
    • pengaru 4y ago
      > It’s looking like if you want an electric vehicle without non of the other nonsense that comes with new vehicles the conversion kits will be the way to go. I'm unconvinced. Surely Mazda will be electrifying their fleet and the MX-5 isn't going to vanish and it's never going to become some non-drivers' roadster. Lotus has to eventually followup the Elise with something electric, that too likely won't be some autonomous trash with deprecated steering wheel+pedals. Then there's the budget Chinese EVs the world markets seem poised (desperate?) to become flooded with. Don't you think there'll be myriad basic, mostly-manual EVs in there? I half expect some cheap Chinese RWD EV econoboxes to become favorites for hot-rodding gearheads to upgrade the motors and batteries in. Hot-rodding should be entering a new emissions-free era, sounds great.
• pfdietz 4y ago
  The end of multispeed transmissions (manual or automatic) is coming, with the ongoing displacement of internal combustion engine vehicles by electric.
• netfortius 4y ago
  US centric article, of course, when it comes to the scale implied ("end of" and "near"). Haven't seen any significant (intent to) move in that direction, in Europe, for example.
  • atty 4y ago
    I don’t see how it’s any different for EU long term, even if they haven’t caught up to the US/other markets yet. Automatic ICE vehicles are more fuel efficient, since they can have significantly more gears. And electric cars (usually) only have 1 gear, completely getting rid of the need for any gear shifting at all. The combination of electrification and the continual march to higher efficiency and more performant powertrains naturally leads to a reduction in manuals, looking 10-15 years out.
    • netfortius 4y ago
      ["end of" + "near"] != "long term". Long term I'd see Europeans moving away from cars, as much as possible. €4k incentive in France to get rid of your car and get electrical bikes, and a public transportation of the kind that the US can't even dream (inside cities trams and buses + high speed trains + inter-cities and inter-countries buses - all at least in Europe and neighborhood (where car could be a term of comparison)), are much more impactful than the stick shift obsolescence.
  • dagw 4y ago
    Haven't seen any significant (intent to) move in that direction, in Europe, for example. Here in Sweden, the number of people getting automatic only drivers licenses is higher than ever and climbing fast.
• throwaway892238 4y ago
  When ICE vehicles are banned, I'll just do an EV conversion. Keep the whole standard drivetrain with manual, pop out the engine, pop on an EV motor and battery pack. I don't plan to ever own an automatic car, or gearless.
• irrational 4y ago
  My current cars are 24, 22, and 20 years old. After reading through all the comments on here, I think I’ll keep driving them till I die. No touchscreens, lots of manual knobs, no way for them to be remote accessed, etc.
  • euroderf 4y ago
    Bliss.
• levismaina 4y ago
  In the end when most vehicles are electric, I wonder if manufacturers will continue making niche "mechanical" cars for motoring enthusiasts, not unlike how mechanical watches survive to this day even with digital and more accurate ways to keep time.
  • akira2501 4y ago
    Of course they will. These threads are all so car-centric. Motorcycles are still a popular option, for the very reason you ponder. And most of them are still manual.
  • schuke 4y ago
    I often think about it too. The car seems to be much more complex than a mechanical watch. The watch can perform very well without regular maintenance but car cannot. And the latter can be very dirty, with all the oil, gasoline, dirt, smell, etc. Cars run on much much more harsh conditions with lots of exposed parts , one of whose failure can lead to the car being useless. Whereas for the watch basically everything is in an enclosure. It can go for decades without the need of opening.
  • Wistar 4y ago
    Looks to me as though mechanical watches are doing better than surviving; they seem to be flourishing. Especially some of the more ridiculously expensive ones that have elaborations and complications such as tourbillions, etc. Although the cryptocurrecny shakeout seems to have dulled the high-end watch market somewhat.
• cancerhacker 4y ago
  I'm using my high point's account for this: in 2016, 2 years after my Stage IV Colon Cancer dx and continuing treatment I (Silicon Valley fat engineer) bought a 2005 BMW 325 manual Convertible much to the dismay of my wife. Let me tell you - there is NOTHING like driving Highway 9 up to Skyline through Saratoga after chemotherapy. The manual transmission maybe mattered less than the convertible aspect (fresh air is what kept my nausea away) but the physical connection to the mechanism made me feel alive. The car basically fell apart within a few years - but I don't regret the $8k it cost me.
• NonNefarious 4y ago
  Great. That means nobody is going to steal my car, and I won't have to let valets drive it.
• billfruit 4y ago
  Also to be noted is the popularity of the AMT systems or the Automated Manual Transmission, where a manual gear box is mated with a computer which shifts gears for you. As of now Auto-enthusiasts look down upon these systems, but they have improved a lot in recent years, and seems mechanically much more reliable systems than CVTs and DCTs which have a lot more moving parts. Also with improvement in software they could become better over time. They seem cheaper also.
• vbezhenar 4y ago
  Manual transmission is cheap, easy to repair and allows towing. With everything equal, I, personally, would prefer it to automatic one.
• Klonoar 4y ago
  Manual transmissions unfortunately seem like, as they die off, are being relegated to shitbox cars or (mostly high end) sports cars. That said, if you can find them, there are still some modern-ish BMWs that aren't M-series that come in manual. I picked up a 2016 340i and modded in CarPlay, and it feels like the best of the old world and modern world - rides the line perfectly for me. Will be sad when I finally have to let it go.
• apsurd 4y ago
  late to the party but: all good, motorcycles are still very much manual
  • nunb 4y ago
    Just wait until we get viable electric mo'bikes! I don't remember exactly, but I think Michael Cyzsz was working on transmissions before he passed away.
• anshumankmr 4y ago
  You can have automatic transmission when you pry it from my cold dead hands /s Automatic transmission isn't gonna be the de facto way to drive everywhere in the world.
• balls187 4y ago
  I’d love it if an EV came out with a faux-manual vehicle, like a driving arcade game.
• croes 4y ago
  So Fast & Furious 12 will be pretty short without the manual shifting scenes.
• rswail 4y ago
  By 2030, I expect the number of EV produced to exceed the number of ICE vehicles. EV doesn't need a gearbox, which makes the discussion about manual vs automatic transmission moot. In terms of vehicle external design, modern vehicles are designed for pedestrian and passenger safety, and that emphasis pushes towards a consensus design of the jelly bean look. EVs with their "frunk" will further evolve that design as it means that there isn't a honking great lump of steel in the front of the car. As for the driver UI/UX, touch screens for controls that the driver needs to operate while driving are a definite negative. I expect that there will be studies by the various standards bodies regarding this that will require movement back to haptic feedback requirements in the design rules.
  • sgillen 4y ago
    >> modern vehicles are designed for pedestrian and passenger safety Passenger sure, but pedestrian? I’m not so sure. Maybe this is an American thing only but cars continue to get larger and larger, which is great for passenger safety, but decidedly less great for pedestrians.
• fredsted 4y ago
  I'm on my way to pick up a manual car today (BMW M2) I've just had about a year with a similar automatic car, but I miss the feel of the car when I'm shifting through gears. The next car for me is probably going to something similar - or an EV.
  • hnov 4y ago
    The M2 is an interesting one because the manual in that car isn’t that good (typical BMW rubbery shifter, high clutch pedal with detent, clutch delay valve) while the Getrag 7 speed DCT feels like something out of a Lamborghini, but people were still buying a LOT of manual M2s.
    • fredsted 4y ago
      I've read a lot about people complaining about the rubberyness and smooth shifting being difficult, but it's perfectly fine.
• bambax 4y ago
  > As sad as it may be, manual vehicles make up a minuscule percentage of the current market share. In the US. In France the share of automatic gearbox for new cars passed 50% for new cars only in 2021, and there are still an immense majority of manual vehicles in circulation; you have to use a manual gearbox to pass your driving license. This will change with electric cars that for the most part don't need gears at all, of course.
• hooby 4y ago
  I've driven manual cars all my life. Shifting is completely normal to me, almost like muscle memory. I know my car well enough that can match motor revs to the new gear pretty close, without having to look at the dials. The whole process is automatic - I no longer even notice doing it. I just shift when needed, without actually having to consciously think about anything... That being said, I don't really feel nostalgic or emotionally attached to that experience. I'm not used to automatics, but I know that in an automatic car that gives you good feedback, you can still develop that same "intuition", allowing you to for example kick-down in a lower gear for overtaking. For me personally, loosing manual transmissions is no cause for concern. I am concerned about people becoming worse drivers, and roads becoming more dangerous, but I think that other trends contribute more to that than automatic transmissions do. Like modern SUVs providing super little feedback. You can't feel the road, you can't feel the motor, you can't feel your speed, or the cornering forces, or how much grip you have. The whole driving is experience feels floaty and detached - like playing a video game.
  • ur-whale 4y ago
    > That being said, I don't really feel nostalgic or emotionally attached to that experience. There's a ton of things you can do with a manual when pushing a car to its limits that simply aren't possible with an automatic, especially when on slippery terrain (mud, snow). Damn shame.
    • elcomet 4y ago
      So maybe that's good as it makes the car safer, forcing people to go slower? And usually, you can still control the car manually even on automatic transmission.
      • ur-whale 4y ago
        You're not getting the point: there are situations where you will find yourself on difficult terrain and your automatic gearbox will get in the way of getting back to safety.
• dgently7 4y ago
  I’ve dailied a mt in LA traffic since 2009. I’m one of those connected to the car people. I don’t even like cruise control bc I can’t feel what is happening. That said, I will never buy another ice engine if I can help it. That’s coming for all of us ”enthusiasts”. For better or worse “boring” electric motors with all the smoothness and infinite torque across all rpm’s are the future… Mt and even ice will be only for the affluent as a recreation item. (See who currently can own a horse and what they use them for as an example) So what are the enthusiast masses to do? My pitch is that electric sports cars of the future should have digital simulations of the mt experience. We just need to modulate the electric motors to simulate the torque curve of an ice engine. Either put a real clutch and mt gear box in and pump the output into that. Or fake the whole thing with a haptic clutch pedal. Sim racing has just about all the tech figured out for how to make it believable enough. And we already pipe fake engine sound around ice cars to make em sound better. The best part is that you could simulate different types of engines and new and fun combinations of manual and auto stuff. And when you want efficiency just plonk it in the middle gear and let the electric motors be electric mode. You get all the options. Full manual, sequential shifter, paddles dual clutch, and full auto electric. Maybe that would be better in electric retrofits but if Mazda made an electric Miata with that option the haters would hate until they tried it and saw how fun it would be. Really that’s the only reason anyone has to get a mt anymore. They are just fun as hell to drive so all we need to do is figure out how to make the electric cars we will all have to drive fun.
  • artogahr 4y ago
    That's never going to happen en masse because petrolheads are always going to complain "But it's not the real thing and you're a stupid person for enjoying it!!!"
    • dgently7 4y ago
      Yeah but people said the same thing about 4 cylinder turbo cars vs beefy v6s, but they made em anyway, they are super fun and people who want to drive a fun car but don’t have tons of cash bought tons of them. This isn’t the solution for the purists with cash to spend 10-20$/gallon of gas it’s the thing for the rest of us who love to drive but cant justify an ice. I mean I think you are right in that it’ll never happen. It would be a lot of engineering for a super small segment of the market, but I can dream…
• dmichulke 4y ago
  I remember an automatic version of my second car would have cost 12k instead of 10. Why is this 20% increase in price not being discussed here? I suppose this was partly because the cheapest automatic version had more HP than then cheapest manual version, and partly because automatic is just more expensive. But the point stands...
• simonebrunozzi 4y ago
  The end of manual transmission will simply be the proliferation of Electric Vehicles. Simple as that.
• nottorp 4y ago
  The transmission will simply be gone due to electric motors won't it? And even with gas engines, I'm in Europe and I've never owned an automatic. I've driven a few and kinda hated them... with the exception of Toyota's CVT. I would drive that. Too bad hybrids have 18/24 months delivery time around here. Not a good time to change your car.
  • chrisseaton 4y ago
    Electric vehicles like Teslas still have transmissions. They just have only one gearing.
    • nottorp 4y ago
      Well, i don't need to care about it then.
• vegancap 4y ago
  I hope not, I genuinely enjoy driving, I love the feel of shifting gears in my Type R. Plus, in a lot of cars, Type R's are a good example, they have a really high red line, you can squeeze a lot of revs out of the engine. But the gear indicator tells me to shift up at around 3000rpm. Which is more fuel efficient, for sure, but where's the fun in that? I want the option to drive like a lunatic from time to time and get the most out of the engine. I've never driven an automatic, so maybe that's still possible somehow. But I love the interaction with the engine you get from a manual.
• pedrow 4y ago
  Have we properly considered the effect on Hollywood? No car chase is complete without the timely down-shift, the roar of the engine and (usually) the massive fireball when the villain drives into a wall. With EVs/automatic transmission they're going to have to think of something else!
  • royjacobs 4y ago
    Thankfully heroes and villains in action movies always drive immaculately restored 70s muscle cars, so for the time being they'll be able to keep using a gear stick.
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
• domh 4y ago
  I always found it strange how people in the UK prefer driving manual transmissions, there's always talk of liking the "feeling" and "control" when driving, this is coming from people who are not enthusiasts and don't even like driving sometimes. 90% of driving tests in the UK are done in manual transmission cars[1]. Taking your driving test in an automatic means that you are not allowed to drive a manual[2]. After living in the US for a few years, I'd never go back to a manual car. I view driving as a chore more than a pleasure and I can't wait for them to be fully self driving. It definitely seems to be more luxury cars over here that are automatic, and the cars for the everyman seem to still be manual. [1]: https://www.wearemarmalade.co.uk/driver-hub/news/is-learning-in-an-automatic-the-new-normal https://www.wearemarmalade.co.uk/driver-hub/news/is-learning... [2]: https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories#category-b-auto https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories#category-b-aut...
  • ngcazz 4y ago
    Folks are less lazy this side of the pond ;)
    • jerrre 4y ago
      why not walk, with that argument
    • kaashif 4y ago
      Although you're joking, I just want to say that avoiding needless work isn't laziness, it's efficiency. Maybe those are two sides of the same coin, but I could equally say people in the UK are being needlessly inefficient. Not just for themselves, but for others - automatics have had better fuel efficiency (less pollution) for years now. We could even go further and say that needlessly polluting to improve the "feel" of driving is immoral.
      • domh 4y ago
        Yup this is what I always say. Using modern conveniences doesn't equal laziness. There's a bunch of stuff that cars do for you automatically that you wouldn't call laziness for not doing it yourself: traction control, abs, power steering, using a choke to start the car etc. I lump changing gear into this bucket.
• fedeb95 4y ago
  I'll start putting 1€ for every article that assumes US=world. I bet I'll be rich soon.
• DoingIsLearning 4y ago
  My first car was a very old and rusty Fiat Uno. The car wasn't particularly safe but it was made remarkably more dangerous with my teenager stupidity and lack of restraint. My point is that manual transmissions actually made a lot of sense in cars without ABS and drum brakes. Learning to brake with a gearbox was a life saving skill with those cars. Nowadays none of this applies with ABS and ESP/ESC and indeed MT is likely to become a relic, specially with the rollout of EVs.
• _ph_ 4y ago
  To me, this headline comes at least 10 years to late. For two reasons. First of all, even with ICE cars, manual transmissions become more and more rare. Even traditional sports car companies in most models usually rather offer a double-clutch transmission. But obviously, the end of all gear-shifting is near, as most electric cars only have a fixed transmission ratio, so never shift gears. We really need to switch all new car production to electric, it should be quite apparent why, especially as large parts of the world went through extreme heats again this year.
  • djxfade 4y ago
    In Europe, automatic transmission only really got mainstream in the past decade or so. Yes we have had cars that are fully automatic, but that would be more of the high end cards. Most small consumer cars usually was (and still is) manual
    • magicalhippo 4y ago
      Yeah here in Norway new cars sold with automatic went from 32% in 2010 to 96% today[1]. Though I suspect the high ratio of electric cars sold these days, 65% last year[2], has probably been a major contributor. [1]: https://www.nrk.no/osloogviken/flere-tar-forerkort-for-bil-med-automatgir-enn-med-manuell-_-nicolaj-angret-og-ma-kjore-opp-pa-nytt-1.16076020 https://www.nrk.no/osloogviken/flere-tar-forerkort-for-bil-m... [2]: https://www.elbil24.no/nyheter/na-er-hver-sjette-bil-i-norge-en-elbil/75693789 https://www.elbil24.no/nyheter/na-er-hver-sjette-bil-i-norge...
    • _ph_ 4y ago
      I know, I am from Germany :) We have still a lot of manual cars, even amongst the newly sold ones. But beyond that we keep doing what we did your decades, manual transmissions are popular in the cheaper car segment. On the other side, all the big, expensive manufacturers more and more move towards automatic transmissions. A BMW-driving colleague keeps complaining how the manual transmissions tend to get worse with each model generation. But even if Germany kind of misses out on the automatic transmission age a bit - the discussion is moot due to the switch to electric.
  • 4y ago
• yodelshady 4y ago
  I genuinely think this is part of the reason for cycling-as-hobby, aka Middle Aged Men In Lycra. I want a hobby vehicle to present some sort of challenge. Now maybe you shouldn't ever be "challenging" yourself on a public road, but doing so in an old sports car at 45 mph, is clearly not the same level of risk to others as pushing equivalently in the modern version. It's just less acceptable, even before environmental concerns. So that leaves you with "push the throttle for maybe five seconds, then back off before you plough into a shared-use bridge at 120 mph" (something I've unfortunately seen, recently). Neat trick, but really a skill as such, is it? Meanwhile, I hit 40 mph yesterday, on a twisty road, using gravity and oatmeal. That's my accomplishment. Then there's the noise. An old sports car made noise because the designer wanted, was singularly focused on, making a powerful engine. A new car makes noise because, after the team of engineers make a powerful engine, then design an efficient suppressor system to comply with laws, the marketers come along and find regions of the engine map the laws do not cover, and order the engineers to make it very loud in those regions specifically. The former is charming, the latter is just cheap. More so when you're embarrassed by an EV - scratch that, a practical EV, with storage space and stuff - during acceleration. And for all that, the sports car is still usually pretty rubbish on a track compared to a purpose-built vehicle. Pro tip: real mechanical engineers worry about heat dissipation. A lot. Really a lot. Your road car almost certainly doesn't have enough for sustained track work. They manage a few laps, then important components - the brake discs, brake pads, brake fluid, dampers, maybe even some of the sensors and power steering - start fading. Again, in comparison a few thousand on bike stuff gets you something entirely race-worthy. Yes I know it's still just a bicycle - it is - but you do notice the sense of purpose, that things are there because they make the vehicle better at its one job. If OEMs want ICE sports cars, arguably any sports cars, to have a future, then the Top Trumps needs to stop. Rediscover that sense of purpose. Either the point is "fun at socially acceptable speeds", in which case manuals are just better because they're more fun, or it's "prove I have lots of money", in which case stick an electric motor in and coat the interior in gold, because the current crop of go-fasts don't have long for this earth, legislation will see to that.
• tibbydudeza 4y ago
  Yes it is archaic - very crap in traffic but I never had any mechanical issues with a manual gearbox needing replacement in any of my cars except for normal wear and tear of the clutch plate. Any quote involving a DSG or automatic gearbox from the VW/Audi/BMW is like buying a good second hand car. No thanks - like my farm implement.
  • was_a_dev 4y ago
    Our clutch plate needed replacing earlier this year. We paid <£400 for the replacement. 50% of that was the cost of labour. 20% of that was the cost of replacement gearbox oil
• tibbydudeza 4y ago
  Also nothing beats a snap change to third gear when you need to perform a overtaking maneuver on that slow trailer truck and there is oncoming traffic in a distance. My experience of autoboxes is the slow glacial pace of stirring an engine.
  • valine 4y ago
    The 1 speed automatic transmission and instant torque of an EV is gonna beat manually dropping to 3rd every time.
    • tibbydudeza 4y ago
      EV is a long way off for me - costs of EV does not compare well to ICE cars.
      • timbit42 4y ago
        It will within 10 years.
• incomingpain 4y ago
  In a couple decade gasoline cars wont really be a thing. Everyone will drive EVs. If it's smart to burn gasoline to generate power, they powers that be will build large plants to far more efficiently burn the gasoline. Tesla didn't get a transmission mainly because they put enough power and low end torque would blow up any transmission that hit weight and size specs they needed to do. However, a manual trans can be in an EV. It just doesnt make sense, there's virtually no situations where you want to be out of gear. Flipside, this is a huge adoption hurdle for me. I need my manual trans. I love the idea of a manual trans ev wrangler: https://www.motortrend.com/news/jeeps-magneto-concept-wrangler-ev-photos-details/ https://www.motortrend.com/news/jeeps-magneto-concept-wrangl... But my understanding is that it's not happening.
• maxehmookau 4y ago
  I think it might be. My youngest sister is currently learning to drive and the default option in the UK is to learn to drive a manual car. But what's the point? Petrol engines will eventually be illegal to buy and then at some point illegal to own. It's much faster and cheaper to learn to drive automatic cars, so why not?
• mohas 4y ago
  Not as long as government owned car manufacturers have access to exclusive national wide markets and can sell simple automatic transmission systems for 10 to 15% of the car price while selling the car 500 to 1000% higher than their competitive price (situation in my current country)
• femto 4y ago
  To me a manual is all about engine braking. You just have to use the brake pedal less. I haven't driven an electric vehicle before, but I imagine they could deliver a similar experience if the regeneration was suitably programmed? Can an EV driver comment on whether they offer a similar engine braking experience to a manual?
  • eterevsky 4y ago
    Aren't all hybrids and EVs doing regenerative breaking when you are pressing on the breaking pedal? To answer your question, Tesla by default starts breaking a little bit when you take your foot off the accelerator pedal, as if you were driving in a slightly lower gear. This behavior is configurable in settings.
  • sgt101 4y ago
    I hardly ever use the break on my Tesla. You just take your foot off and it goes to the speed you want.
  • ecopoesis 4y ago
    Most EVs have one pedal mode: lift your foot off the accelerator and the car rapidly decelerates to a stop using regenerative breaking. My BMW has a neat adaptive driving mode: because the motors don’t use permanent magnets, lifting off would normally result in coasting. When adaptive driving is on, the car uses its radar to figure out how much regeneration (and if necessary friction) braking to apply so you stop just short of the car in front of you, all without applying the brake. The same system is also used to dampen acceleration when there are cars in front of you. It sounds like madness, and is very strange the first few times you use it, but ends up making driving more pleasant.
  • neallindsay 4y ago
    As you guessed, EVs primarily use regeneration to brake. Most newer EV models give you a "blended" brake pedal where it will use regen exclusively if you brake softly but it will also apply the traditional wheel brakes if you brake hard. Once you get used to the idea of regen it's weird to think that traditional combustion cars just throw away all that energy as heat in the brakes and/or engine.
• kkfx 4y ago
  The end is near just because of EVs, most users do not care about real efficiency of manual vs automatic or kind of automatic gears, they just choose because of habits with a cloying trend to see only the good parts of their favorite choice.
• GnarfGnarf 4y ago
  I love stick-shift. I have never owned anything else in 52 years. I once drove my brand-new Mazda B3000 4WD to another city, on Christmas Eve. The dealer had helpfully washed my new truck before I drove it away. Some water had seeped and my starter was frozen solid. Fortunately a couple of hearty passers-by pushed it so I could kick-start it. If it had been an automatic, I would have spent Christmas hundreds of kilometers from home & family.
• MarkusWandel 4y ago
  I finally had to switch to a slushbox for family reasons. Driving is less fun, but it gets the job done. One thing that's neat though, that a stickshift can never do, is automatic engine braking. Driving along on cruise control, if a long downhill is encountered, the car will shift down to engine brake. That's cool.
  • zhdc1 4y ago
    > Driving along on cruise control, if a long downhill is encountered, the car will shift down to engine brake. That's cool. You can also downshift in a manual...
    • MarkusWandel 4y ago
      Of course! But the cruise control on a stick shift can't do that, and it's a cool feature.
• ubermonkey 4y ago
  This is a really US-focused take, right? Manuals are MUCH MUCH more common in other countries. I was just in the UK, and (because I'm curious) I peaked in cars in every lot we parked in. Manuals were the dominant mode there, in my unscientific sampling.
  • amarant 4y ago
    Same here in Sweden. Automatics are almost a curiosity, some silly crutch used in strange countries where people don't know how to drive or something. But in a sense manual transmission is still dying. EV's don't have a transmission in the same sense, and from a user's perspective they're similar to automatic transmission. Well, "dying" might be a bit premature, but declining anyways!
• heikkilevanto 4y ago
  Manual transmission will die, but not because of automatic transmissions. In a few short decades we will all be driving electric vehicles.
• lupire 4y ago
  As gas cars are headed to deprecation in California with others likely to follow, EV designers are creating manual transmission designs. Currently only a couple of $100K+ models (Porsche and Audi) have it. Toyota and Jeep are working on more. https://www.motorbiscuit.com/electric-vehicles-manual-transmissions/ https://www.motorbiscuit.com/electric-vehicles-manual-transm...
  • AuthorizedCust 4y ago
    That’s silly, retrofitting a technology for a different platform into a platform that doesn’t need it!
    • koheripbal 4y ago
      They're really just mislabeling it for nostalgia and marketing. It's actually just a control to increase torque more aggressively on command for increased acceleration beyond what is normally needed for casual driving.
• wscott 4y ago
  [flagged]
• muzika 4y ago
  I used to love manual transmissions - almost all cars I owed had one, but only until I first experienced driving a Tesla. Now that I had been driving EVs I like the user experience and feel of control of the car more.
• gbronner 4y ago
  From personal experience, the new automatics are better than manuals. I found going from a 5 speed to a 6 speed annoying -- it added a lot more shifts. After 26 years of driving a manual, my car got totaled and I pretty much had to get one with an automatic. The new car has hill descent mode, which is pretty similar to what a manual does, and it has some more sophisticated limited slip traction control modes, which eliminates the only other real advantage of a manual. The only remaining advantage of a manual now is cost, which matters far more in developing countries than in the USA.
  • everdrive 4y ago
    It's sad, but I agreed. Manuals may be more fun, but they are no longer the more practical option.
  • OkayPhysicist 4y ago
    I think I'd take an automatic if it gave me significantly more on-the-fly control over the behavior of the gearbox. Sure, day-to-day, I want to be driving at maximum fuel economy on city streets and relatively slow highways, but other times I'm taking my car out for a spin in the mountains where I want to maximize my power output by spinning up to 7500 revs, engine break to take hairpin turns at speed, and other irresponsible fun. All the automatics I've driven in seem to at best have a "best fuel economy" mode, a "sport" mode that doesn't even get close to pushing the engine to red-line, and an up-down shifter that lags too much for a downhill-into-a-tight outside-turn-into-an-uphill type scenario.
• walnutclosefarm 4y ago
  2 years ago, I bought a slightly used Tacoma. I looked for months to find a light pickup truck with a manual transmission. In theory, there were a couple of models from two manufacturers available with a manual, but in reality, I couldn't find one on a lot. In the used market, it was maybe one in fifty. I held out until I found one, because I knew that this would be my last chance to drive a manual, and more than likely the last ICE vehicle I would ever purchase. Just a nostalgia thing, for me. I learned to drive in a 53 Jimmy 3/4 ton pickup with a straight 6 ICE and 4 on the floor transmission, and have never been able to really like automatics, particularly for my farm truck. Electric trucks were not really available or even close to work tested when I needed the new vehicle, so it had to be ICE, and since it was going to my last such vehicle, I just wanted the manual. And I like it. I'll miss it when it gets replaced by an electric truck, even though the latter will be over all a much better vehicle.
  • taylodl 4y ago
    Get a motorcycle. They're still almost exclusively manual. Heck, it's not hard to find one with low miles and in good condition that still has a carburetor as motorcycles didn't switch to to electronic fuel injection en masse until 2010. Manual transmission, manual choke, manual fuel valve, no traction control, no ABS, no computers (if you get one made before 2010) - what more can you ask for? The ones made prior to 2010 also tend to have analog gauges. It's the ultimate analog riding machine! Get one of these old machines and have fun. In 10 years or so you won't be able to find fully-manual, non-computerized, motorcycles either.
    • walnutclosefarm 4y ago
      > what more can you ask for? Four wheels, a cargo bed, and, when it's -20F outside, a cab and heater ;-) Other than that, yeah, a cycle is great.
  • yencabulator 4y ago
    Pickups are very American -> I would expect stick shift to go away there first before hot hatchbacks etc.
• kidsil 4y ago
  Meanwhile, outside the US in some European countries it's almost impossible to buy an automatic car.
  • the_mitsuhiko 4y ago
    Not for much longer as manufacturers are thinning out their lineup. Even if they want to offer manual transmissions they won’t be able to do it economically any more.
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• kurupt213 4y ago
  I’m still sad about the end of air cooled carbureted engines.
• tinus_hn 4y ago
  The end of the internal combustion engine is near and with that the end of either manual or automatic gear shifting.
• waffletower 4y ago
  The popular mechanics article should be back-dated at least 20 years. California just made ICE vehicles illegal this week. They will be completely phased out in 2035. While there are many dual motor electric vehicles, I believe this discussion is entirely unaware of the rapidly changing reality facing motor vehicles.
• perryizgr8 4y ago
  I learned driving on manual, and drove manual cars for many years. Changing gears, operating the clutch is second nature to me. I don't have to think about it, whether I'm driving on the highway, or in city traffic or on a steep hill. Recently started driving a CVT, been about a couple months. I absolutely love the experience. It's so much more relaxed. The movement of the car is always smooth, I can hardly hear any changes in engine speed. I can accelerate from 20 km/h to 80 km/h and the RPM stays constant around 1100. Hill driving is amazing, the car knows to shift down when going uphill. It knows to apply engine braking when going downhill. City driving is effortless. Put it in drive, and it's literally just a matter of using the brake and accelerator. It even disengages the transmission completely when you come to a complete stop and stay there for a few seconds. I have shift pedals on the steering, but I never felt the need to use them!
• bikenaga 4y ago
  '95 Toyota Tercel 5-speed, around 101,000 miles (I got it in 1998 with around 52,000). Only city driving (though traffic here is not that heavy), and I get around 28 - 30 mpg. The car handles very well; very responsive steering, and the engine actually feels a little overpowered for a car of its size. I put more money into the car than it's worth, but in terms of how it feels to drive it's the best car I've ever owned. I'll be very sad when it's no longer fixable - I think rust in some area will probably get it.
• PeterStuer 4y ago
  I recently had to go back to a manual shift Mercedes car after 2 decades of driving very fine automatic BMW gearboxes. While the transmision is very nice for a manual compared to those from the old days, the overwhelming feeling was ... why? This process has been automated and optimized to the point where the computer can gear switch better than the best drivers on a daily commute. Why do some people still insist on manuals? Anecdotally, nearly 100% of the 'Í do not like automatic tramsmission' people that I know are woman, all of an age between 45 and 55. Somehow they still take pride in riding stick, while the rest of the world has moved on from being Mantafahrers.