17 ms·

Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say

281 points by sahin 5y ago

fullstop 5y ago
My house was built in the 70s and I've tested surfaces over the years and have not found any lead paint yet. Another source of lead, unfortunately, is in children's toys.
- wallawe 5y ago
  > Another source of lead, unfortunately, is in children's toys. Yeah this was going to be my question, is where is the lead coming from? Water, toys, what else? Having a 4 week old, seeing this concerns me so I'd love to do what I can to avoid it.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - clircle 5y ago
    Soil, water, lead pipes.
  - gwbas1c 5y ago
    It's in the solder used to join pipes together. Even after "lead pipes" were banned in the US, it was still used to join copper pipe together. It's also in solder used in electronics, although I doubt that half of American children have a parent who regularly solders at home.
    - tdeck 5y ago
      Modern mass-market electronics have been made with lead-free solder for a long time because of RoHS regulations (I believe this is an EU thing but most manufacturers have retooled everything to be lead-free). I'd argue that electronics solder is a lot less of a concern anyway since it's usually only in hard-to-reach places. It's a major concern for disposal, however.
  - Foobar8568 5y ago
    Paints and "metallic" jewelries for kids, it often makes the news.
  - londons_explore 5y ago
    Avoid anything over 50 years old. Old stuff has lead, but also has a bunch of other things that are of dubious health effects. But new stuff contains more volatiles, more fluorinated plastics, and a far wider array of newish chemicals we don't yet have good data on (nanoparticles etc.) Overall, I'd say that unless you have a lifetime to test and research everything, it probably isn't worth making any lifestyle choices to avoid unhealthy materials, because in doing so there's a good chance you'll just switch to another. But you should ask your government to put more money into population wide health initiatives, like research into health effects of chemicals.
    - FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
      Or avoid anything that wasn't made the same way 400 years ago. ;-) Except pewter. Avoid that. But like -- wood, cast iron, earthenware, unleaded glass, natural fibers (cotton, linen, hemp), vegetable dyes: I don't see how you go wrong with those.
  - kords 5y ago
    I got a bathtub stopper and I saw on the box a Prop65 warning. Not sure if it's because of the lead.
  - JCBird1012 5y ago
    Smaller general aviation aircraft still use 100LL gasoline (the LL stands for low lead) - and even though there’s lead-free replacement candidates (still going through regulatory approval, at least in the US), it’s been known that areas around airports with frequent GA traffic have higher levels of lead in the air, and children living near said airports may have elevated levels of lead in their blood (https://paloaltoonline.com/news/2021/08/06/new-study-finds-local-airports-are-raising-blood-lead-levels-in-children https://paloaltoonline.com/news/2021/08/06/new-study-finds-l...)
    - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
      >and children living near said airports may have elevated levels of lead in their blood Or is that because the upper middle class types avoid airport noise like the plague leaving the housing stock around airports cheaper, older and more leaded? The correlation between low income and lead (all known bad chemicals highly used in the past really) exposure is well studied rather than speculative.
    - verst 5y ago
      What about the pilots? I always get this fuel on my hands during preflight when sumping the fuel tanks.
      - stonemetal12 5y ago
        Lead doesn't absorb through the skin. You have to breathe or eat it. As long as you thoroughly wash your hands after preflight, the only exposure should be the fumes and exhaust in the air.
        nate_meurer 5y ago
        No, tetraethyl lead, which is the form of lead found in fuel, is easily absorbed through the skin.
      - Symbiote 5y ago
        Maybe pilots should be required to lick a block of lead before each flight, so they have some incentive to stop using leaded fuel.
  - zeven7 5y ago
    Radiolab just had an interesting episode on how we used to use leaded gasoline and how it resulted in lead being everywhere. https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/heavy-metal https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/heavy...
  - zoomablemind 5y ago
    In the course of regular pediatric visits the doctor should at some point check the blood for lead early on. Not on every visit, of course, they have a schedule for the blood work. As for the concerns, if there're reasons, doctor recommened us to check the water first. There may also be free test kits from the city. Also, out of caution, we were running the water off for some time before filling pots and doing washes, esp. in the morning. Dust wise, there's no easy solution. The wet cleaning, mopping the floors regularly and maintaining reasonable humidity indoors would help keep dust down... but babies love to crawl. Perhaps being outdoors more may be an option, unless it's even more polluted. If breastfed, mama's health is equally cruicial!
  - nradov 5y ago
    Lead paint is still occasionally found on toys imported from China. But after a previous recall incident the major US toy brands now have better control over their supply chains so the risk should be low. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0269749118313988 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S02697...
  - nate_meurer 5y ago
    Watch out for dishes, especially older ones. The older Lenox dishes my family used for 40 years turned out to have heavily leaded glaze on the surface. By the time I was using them for my own kids, the glaze could turn a lead-check swab bright red, which means we were eating that lead. After I discovered this I replaced all of our dishes with plain white Corelle. Corelle currently uses lead-free glaze; the plain white is just me being an absolutist. Note that vintage Corelle and almost all other vintage cookware contains some amount of lead in the decorative glaze. Here's a good resource for lead content in the household items your kids are likely to encounter: https://tamararubin.com/ https://tamararubin.com/
- stuaxo 5y ago
  Even though lead was removed from petrol, there is a lot in soil and dust in cities, and that is still agitated out into the air. This article shows how there is lead in Londons air despite it being removed in the 90s from fuel: https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/224474/lead-from-leaded-petrol-persists-london/ https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/224474/lead-from-leaded-petr...
  - foobarian 5y ago
    Remember that avgas still uses leaded fuel (though that will hopefully improve soon).
    - floren 5y ago
      Leaded avgas is only used in small, propeller-driven aircraft like Cessnas. Jet fuel does not contain lead.
      - foobarian 5y ago
        Exactly. And to think it used to be in all passenger car gasoline!
  - fokinsean 5y ago
    Same thing with asbestos, there is a non-zero background level in the air because it was used in so many products for a long time.
- Finnucane 5y ago
  I stripped some woodwork in an 18th century house that had been painted over numerous times. I didn't bother to test, I just assumed that at least some of those layers were lead. The options for removal and disposal are limited and nasty.
refurb 5y ago
scientists saw observable levels of the toxic metal in about half As a former analytical chemist, we can detect most metals down to the parts per trillion or lower. So the more sensitive our instruments get the “more kids have lead”. With sufficiently sensitive testing you’d probably find lead in 100% of people.
- wyldfire 5y ago
  > most of the affected kids ... didn’t have enormous amounts of lead in their bloodstreams, and only two percent had a "high" level. But as the researchers note in their paper, there's no such thing as a safe amount of lead to have in your system. It's possible that more sensitive instruments will allow us to eventually conclude "this small amount X of lead is safe to have ...". But it makes sense to take this seriously. We know lead is bad and we know lots of environmental exposure to lead exists.
  - JoeAltmaier 5y ago
    It's noise. Worry about teaching kids to look both ways etc before obsessing about this one, is my advice.
    - zeven7 5y ago
      I taught my kids to look both ways. Now what do I do?
      - JoeAltmaier 5y ago
        etc
    - Symmetry 5y ago
      So, I'd agree that there are lead levels too low to be worth worrying about. But I recall a clever study a while back where a researcher noticed that children found to be in the top decile of lead exposure got lead abatement for their homes or apartments by the city. The researchers compared them to the previous second decile (now first decile) and found a pretty significant effect size on life outcomes. This was done on poor people in city centers so the lead levels were high compared to, say, suburbanites but there are lead levels many kids in the US are exposed to that are actually a big deal.
mistrial9 5y ago
more than half of all humans, but yes, that includes kids; keywords "body burden chemicals" or more recently "forever chemicals"
roland35 5y ago
My wife and I are particularly concerned about lead, especially since there is no way to really cure lead poisoning. Any house built before the 1980s could have lead in it, with varying degrees of concern for children. Around the home here is what we found are sources of lead to worry about (or not): - Paint: lead was banned in paint in 1979, but lead was used less and less even before the cutoff date. Paint is especially a problem when it is chipping or wearing off, like on windows or doors. - Plumbing. Very old homes may have lead pipes which should be removed. Lead solder was used with copper pipes until ~1984, but this is somewhat less of a concern, depending on your water source (cities can change the water to leach less lead from pipes). - Plumbing fixtures: this is actually a pretty major source of lead in water, and luckily it is easy to change old faucets. You can run water for a minute to mitigate risk with old faucets. - Flooring: Lead can be in any ceramic tiles, but generally not too much. It is only a problem if you are removing tiles and are creating lots of dust. https://www.epa.gov/lead https://www.epa.gov/lead
- neaden 5y ago
  Don't forget the soil in your yard, even if the house was built yesterday the soil could still have lead contamination from leaded gasoline.
  - patja 5y ago
    And decades of paint chips from previous exterior paint prep that may not have been well-contained.
  - ljf 5y ago
    UK suburban soil can also be bad as people used to throw fireplace ashes in their gardens, which can concentrate contaminants. I ate from my home allotment for years until a neighbour told me he had recently tested his soil and found it heavy with lead and other rubbish.
    - agumonkey 5y ago
      did he find a way to de-pollute ?
silicon2401 5y ago
Topics like this bring modern attitudes about identity to a tricky spot. A common view is that you aren't defined by XYZ, you can choose your identity and who you are or what you do. In reality, things like lead poisoning have a very powerful and undeniable impact on who you are and what you can do, e.g. > Slow development of normal childhood behaviors, such as talking and use of words, and permanent intellectual disability are both commonly seen. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning#Effects_on_children https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning#Effects_on_chil... If lead is really a widespread problem, and especially if it continues worsening, then we'll eventually reach a point where we need to identify individuals who have been impacted by lead and ideally take pre-emptive measures to help them with the consequences of it. This makes me wonder how people with more woke attitudes approach other group-specific issues like sickle cell anemia in black people or myopia in Asian and Jewish people. In these cases, being XYZ does define you and the things you're at risk for.
- shadowgovt 5y ago
  I can't speak for the "woke" in general, but regarding medical conditions and their prevalence depending on racial origin: there's worlds of difference between defining what credit risk somebody is based on their skin color and informing people that skin color may be a correlative indicator that the resources should be invested to test their genetics for known maladies. The first is a crime in the United States, and the second is just good medicine.
  - silicon2401 5y ago
    This is actually a great example of what I mean. It's not hard to see the conflict. Let's say the group most affected by lead in the US is green people, and that most green people have some level of significant lead poisoning. That would mean that it's very likely that green people in the US have negative impacts to their cognitive development because of this lead poisoning. So to address the issue green people are having would also mean acknowledging that as a group, green people are more likely to have developmental issues, which would then create fuel for discrimination against green people. That's what I mean, I'm curious to see how that kind of situation gets handled.
dj_gitmo 5y ago
My kid took a routine test and was found to have 5.0 μg/dL, which is elevated but not alarming. The source is most likely paint chips or dust. I'm in an old building which has lead paint that was painted over. It's totally legal to just paint over the lead paint, but since the building is settling the paint on the door frames often chips off. My landlord has been good about offering to strip in repaint the frames, but I would rather not because I feel like all of the scraping would place even more lead chips and dust in the environment. I'd rather be diligent about cleaning and have them do that strip it after we move.
- bpodgursky 5y ago
  Sorry, but 5.0 μg/dL is actually pretty bad. This is the new threshold at which the CDC recommends intervention; it was dropped from 10 relatively recently.
- ubercore 5y ago
  If done right the stripping will absolutely be the right move. Cleaning will only get you so far. Your state should have licensed lead remediation contractors
  - Someone1234 5y ago
    Nobody wants to pay to do it right though. So they often just throw on a 3M mask, put up some air filters, and call it good enough. To do it the EPA-approved way can easily cost $10K with an unlimited ceiling. I'm of the maybe controversial opinion that there should be a program to help residential users with the costs, because the reality is that when the costs are too high (even if for good reason) many just do it wrong, and make the contamination worse.
    - xxpor 5y ago
      There's absolutely funding to do this in some areas. Cleveland's had a major remediation going on for years now because approximately everyone who lives in the city is too poor to pay for it. At the same time, most houses are much older than 1979, so nearly every house has some. https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2020/08/cleveland-city-council-approves-5m-to-help-landlords-tackle-lead-paint-problems-in-dwellings.html https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2020/08/cleveland-city-co...
temptemptemp111 5y ago
They inject heavy metals into children more than ever. It is called "vaccination" and it is barbaric.
1-6 5y ago
Toys are regularly a source of lead as well. Paints and materials usually end up in the mouths of young kids.
djoldman 5y ago
How about Chicago: > The biggest reason is that essentially Chicago and other cities around Illinois required the use of lead service lines all the way until 1986, long after it was recognized that lead was poisonous and other cities had stopped using it. A decade after other cities had stopped using it Chicago and other cities in Illinois were not only using it but requiring the use of lead long after everybody else. [0] https://news.wttw.com/2021/03/24/chicago-has-more-lead-service-pipes-any-other-us-city-illinois-most-any-state https://news.wttw.com/2021/03/24/chicago-has-more-lead-servi...
- pdovy 5y ago
  Not only that, but it's really difficult to get the service line replaced even if you're willing to pay for it. We went through the exercise a few years ago. It can be difficult to find a plumbing service willing to do this kind of work because not only do they need a special certification (makes sense) but the company has to put up something like a $5000 bond on their work with the city. On top of that replacing the portion of the line that goes from the shutoff to the main requires digging up the street, so it can only be done if your street is not currently on a "moratorium" because it was recently repaved. Finally, the city charges a significant amount in permitting fees before you even get to paying for the plumbing service, roadwork repair and landscaping. We finally gave up on that project and given the relatively low level leeching into our water just decided that we could live with using water filters specifically designed to remove lead for any water that our kids drink / cook with. If Chicago was really serious about tackling this they could start with waiving permitting fees and bond requirements and streamline the process for managing the part of the process that occurs on city property. That'd at least make replacing these more tractable during a remodel.
  - jahnu 5y ago
    That's incredible. What sort of levels do you have to put up with? Is there any kind of monitor you can install to detect a spike?
    - OldHand2018 5y ago
eigenrick 5y ago
..and about 100% of their parents have lead in their blood. That's progress, right?
cobookman 5y ago
It's shameful the EPA still hasn't banned leaded aviation fuel.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  Aviation fuel is a far smaller source of lead in humans than just about anything else since it's mostly thinly distributed thousands of feet away from them (contrast with paint, handling of lead objects, plumbing, etc). I don't find anything disagreeable about the EPA refraining from spending my taxes on low impact things to appease people who just want to see a feel good message be sent.
- verst 5y ago
  And most pilot will have touched this fuel quite a bit - for example when checking a single engine propeller plane during preflight we sump the fuel tanks. There is always some fuel that sprays onto my hands then. I wonder how much lead this exposes me to. (I'm working on a private pilot license in a Cessna 172)
  - s0rce 5y ago
    If you are particularly concerned (could be justified) you could get a small aircraft with a diesel engine, don't seem super common but might be increasing.
    - ryandrake 5y ago
      Or wear gloves during your preflight.
    - ericd 5y ago
      And that'd have the benefit of accelerating the industry's transition a little, by boosting demand.
  - myself248 5y ago
    Ask your doctor, get it checked! I just got my test results back, since I'm having some odd symptoms and my doctor's kinda throwing ideas at the wall. He asked, jokingly, if there was a chance anyone was trying to poison me with arsenic. I said no, but I do a lot of soldering (like a LOT), and I make a point not to chew on my solder or wear the iron behind my ear like a pencil, but who knows whether the dust is getting absorbed or whatever. What the heck, let's check for it. My level came back at "less than 1" µg/dl, which I guess is as far down as that particular measurement can go. So that's cool, seems my precautions are adequate.
pitspotter2 5y ago
Roofers weld lead and breathe in some of the fumes here in UK. I thought perhaps they ought to carry portable fans to improve ventilation on calm days.
zz865 5y ago
Anyone know what is normal in other countries? I grew up grinding and sanding our old lead-painted house. I think its probably common.
- kzrdude 5y ago
  This site seems to give "normal values" for swedish kids https://www.internetmedicin.se/behandlingsoversikter/arbets-och-miljomedicin/blyforgiftning/ https://www.internetmedicin.se/behandlingsoversikter/arbets-... > Genomsnittshalten hos svenska barn är cirka 0,05 µmol/L. Halten har sjunkit sedan Sverige förbjöd blyad bensin. For kids average is 0.05 moles/L which should be 10 μg/L. (Note it's given per liter, not dL).
bobthechef 5y ago
Now imagine what children in China have in their blood.
CountDrewku 5y ago
There's a study tying drop in crime rates correlate with end of leaded gasoline usage.
- spiderice 5y ago
  The reason for the correlation being what?
  - myself248 5y ago
    Lead causes mood disorders.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - CountDrewku 5y ago
    https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/prevention/health-effects.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/prevention/health-effects.htm Take your pick. If exposed during childhood it results in essentially mental retardation and impulse issues. The thought is this led to more issues with crime. This article discusses the study- https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2017/06/01/new-evide https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2017/06/01/new-evide...
karaterobot 5y ago
This article is pretty bad, for all the usual clickbaity reasons. It's worth at least scanning the study they're citing, which is (even as a layman) pretty easy to read.[1] [1] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2784260 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/...
prepend 5y ago
The important question is how many kids have 5 micrograms of lead per decaliter of blood [0]. This is the reference blood lead level and much more useful for tracking progress (or decline). I’m surprised that the article sticks with the “no lead is good” rather than the public health level. [0] https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/prevention/blood-lead-levels.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/prevention/blood-lead-levels.h...
- distortedsignal 5y ago
  You're close here, but you're not quite right. The link that you posted mentions 5 migrograms per deciliter of blood, while your post mentions 5 micrograms per decaliter of blood. This is a 100 fold misstatement. A deciliter of blood is 1/10 of a liter, while a decaliter is 10 liters. For reference, I believe that the average adult male has roughly 10L of blood, so 5 micrograms per decaliter would be 5 micrograms in the body of an adult, whereas 5 micrograms per deciliter would be probably something like 5 micrograms in a baby. I don't necessarily trust this site (https://www.healthline.com/health/how-much-blood-in-human-body https://www.healthline.com/health/how-much-blood-in-human-bo...), but it says that babies have ~75 mL (0.075L, or 0.75dL) while the average adult has 4500 - 5700 mL of blood (4.5-5.7L, or 45-57dL, or 0.45-0.57DL). I'm also surprised that the article sticks with their "no lead is good" posture.
hallarempt 5y ago
Only half?
DantesKite 5y ago
Is there no biological mechanism in the body to help promote the removal of lead?
- croes 5y ago
  No
- Igelau 5y ago
  Heavy metals can appear in sweat. Whether this phenomenon is enough to have any therapeutic potential, I can't say.
graeme 5y ago
How big a concern is lead in adults, and is there anything that can be done about long run exposure to lower levels? I live in Montreal, and found out the city pipes in my area had lead. So I've been drinking it about ten years; have bottled water now. My understanding is that chelation is good for acute exposure but wasn't sure it's recommended for lower levels. Now do I know if this is actually something to be concerned about, at low levels in an adult. I had the city worker do a measure without flushing: 16 ug/L (I drink bottled water now so there's no ongoing exposure. I also can't be sure my old places had it, so it could have just been for two years that I was exposed, but likely was for ten)
- xyst 5y ago
  Bottled water often comes from the same sources as your tap, so the "no ongoing exposure" is not always guaranteed. Additionally, bottled water companies (at least in the states) is not regulated by the same laws as municipal/city water companies.
  - graeme 5y ago
    That varies by area. This is Eska water, from an esker in the north of quebec. It doesn't have lead pipes. The lead in Montreal's water comes from old city pipes.
nate_meurer 5y ago
A lady named Tamara Rubin has spent years testing household products and other commonly handled objects for lead. She uses an XRF tester, which is the gold standard for high accuracy lead testing. She has thousands of items listed, from dishes to door hardware to childrens toys, and a lot of these will put a family at high risk of lead poisoning. There's some woo-y stuff on her website, but her XRF data is a gold mine: https://tamararubin.com/ https://tamararubin.com/ I personally have used both XRF and swabs on various objects around by home, and I found some really scary shit. The scariest were the older Lenox dishes we used for years; the decorative glaze on the eating surface tested high in lead via XRF, and the swab lit up bright red which means that lead was also coming off in our food. I threw away all our dishes and bought new Corelle. Other problems I found include old electrical cords and things made out of brass, including all plumbing fittings made before about 2012. These will also turn a swab red, especially if there's any corrosion, which means the lead is mobile.
- giantg2 5y ago
  I think it can depend on other factors too. For example, lead crystal drinkwater is considered safe as long as you aren't leaving the liquid in there for long periods of time. It's possible that's similar to the dishes. Stuff like leaded fuel exhaust or paint flakes are more likely to be ingested/absorbed.
  - nate_meurer 5y ago
    This is why the swabs are an important tool in addition to the XRF. If the swab turns red, then by definition it's wiping mobile lead from the surface of the object you're testing. Using electrical cords as an example, years ago I went through my house and swabbed all of the cords. If I found a cord that turned a swab red, I either threw the thing away if it was cheap, like an old coffee grinder, or I replaced the cord if I didn't want to replace the whole machine, like the cords on all of our Oreck vacuum cleaners. A lot of newer cords have lead in the insulation as indicated by XRF, but won't turn a swab pink. These I don't worry about too much, but I still tell the kids to wash their hand after handling them. EDIT: The LeadCheck swabs are pretty expensive, and using a whole swab for just one or two objects is ridiculously wasteful, but I have a trick that makes them cheap. I cut the cotton head off of a Q-tip cosmetic swab so that it's just a rolled paper rod. I activate the LeadCheck swab and squeeze out a drop of the liquid onto the upright surface of the swab. I dab the end of the decapitated Q-tip in the liquid, and I use that to swab the surface of whatever I'm testing. If something turns the paper red, I clip the end of the shaft off with nail clippers to get a fresh end, and continue to the next object. I can get dozens of tests out of a single swab this way. I make a list of things to test in one afternoon, and I can get the whole pile done for the cost of a single swab, instead of spending hundreds of dollars it would take to use a new LeadCheck swab for each object. Plus, the hard paper Q-tip shaft works better for aggressively rubbing on surfaces.
croes 5y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead%E2%80%93crime_hypothesis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead%E2%80%93crime_hypothesi...
amelius 5y ago
As a kid I did a lot of lead-based soldering. Could this be an issue?
giantg2 5y ago
It would be nice if they had some more data in here. Instead of statements like, “For lead there’s no too low. We want zero.”. Like what is the sensitivity of the test? If we get more sensitive tests, does that mean out target changes? Where are the limits that we see issues?
Lammy 5y ago
I wonder what percentage have detectable levels of PFTE/PET/etc? At least we know the long-term effects of lead: https://particleandfibretoxicology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12989-020-00358-y https://particleandfibretoxicology.biomedcentral.com/article... "Although these combined studies highlight the possibility of uptake and translocation of micro- and nanoplastics into the human body following oral and inhalation exposure, there is an overall scarcity of studies that conscientiously and systematically investigated the extent of particle translocation to different organs in relation to particle dose and particle size. Moreover, the potential health risks resulting from micro- and nanoplastics exposure, uptake and translocation is poorly investigated and is an important matter of ongoing debate."
40acres 5y ago
I was diagnosed w/ ADHD in 2019. When doing research and seeing what the causes could be -- I noticed that lead paint was among possible contributors. I decided to google what lead paint looked like, and realized the apartment I was raised in was covered in it.
ridiculous_fish 5y ago
If you are interested in lead exposure as a global problem, I recommend the "There's Lead in your Turmeric" episode of The Weeds podcast. Some of the largest sources of lead are adulterated turmeric, improperly fired pottery, and others that I never would have expected.
TheRealNGenius 5y ago
Wait till you learn that hobby aircraft still use leaded fuel
mdavis6890 5y ago
The problem with looking at things this way is that there is no discussion of amounts and dose-dependent effects. The article just says "For lead there's no 'too low'". and "we want zero." Fine enough, but as we are very good at measuring ever-smaller quantities of things we will find all manner of out-of-place chemicals that we have been tolerating just fine. I'm sure I have measurable amounts of arsenic, lead, aluminum, chlorine, radioactivity, etc in my body right now, in levels that do not have a meaningful impact on my health. The real question we should ask is whether there is substantial evidence of a negative health impact from the levels of lead that are measured. We should want to know exactly what levels were measured in these kids and be able to plot it out. We should have some idea of the health impacts of various doses. With that we could come to more meaningful conclusions.
- sparker72678 5y ago
  Exactly. There's no scale of risk/impact in these conversations, it's always binary.
cultofmetatron 5y ago
well I mean.. where else are red states going to get their voters?
maxerickson 5y ago
My dad was a civil engineer on the clean water side of public health. In the late 1970s, when my parents moved into the house I grew up in, he replaced the supply line to the street and most of the plumbing. We never talked to him about it, but lead seems like a good guess (a side benefit, the water pressure from a slightly larger meter and clean pipes is a wonderful thing).
hilbert42 5y ago
If you go to here to the Internet Archive https://archive.org/details/boysbookofindust00noyc https://archive.org/details/boysbookofindust00noyc and view or download the book titled The boy's book of industrial information by Elisha Noyce published in 1858 — note I said 1858 - 163 years ago — and then turn to (book page 58, not the PDF #) then on the topic of WHITE LEAD you'll read this amazing statement: "White lead is a very poisonous substance, and produces the disease called painters' colic, when taken into the system in minute quantities and for a long time, so that all who have much to do with this dangerous substance, as house-painters and artists, should be extremely careful that their hands are well washed frequently, and especially before going to meals. Cisterns of lead, used for containing water, very soon become coated inside with a thin flim (sic) of sulphate of lead, this prevents the water from acting further on the lead, and the water from such cisterns is never found to be poisonous; but, if distilled water were used, it would act rapidly on the lead, corroding it, and causing a deposit in the water of white lead, which would render such water dangerous in the extreme." Remember this book was written for the information of boys; it wasn't in a new learned research paper from the Royal Society, etc. which means that 163 years ago it was very common knowledge that lead was very toxic. So how the fuck did we get to the point where we let the likes of Thomas Midgley Jr. and Big Industry introduce tetraethyllead - leaded gasoline ca 1923 and then pollute the world for another 70 or so years? Why weren't there more stringent regulations on white lead in paints, especially during its removal (somewhat like the asbestos regulations of today)? I acknowledge that avoiding lead in paint until about the mid 20th Century would have been difficult but at least some attempt to reduce its spread much earlier than when it was removed from paint should have been undertaken. This is the same old story with industry doing its thing and to hell with the consequences. Lead was known to be dangerous in Roman times, so was mercury and asbestos and some 2000 years later we're still cursed with the mismanagement of these dangerous substance. Moreover, it doesn't stop there, we knew cigarettes and tobacco were dangerous long before the 1950s and see the fight we had over that. ...And there are many more such examples without even having to look for them. It's a never-ending battle with Big Industry, Monsanto, Bayer, etc, etc. I'm beginning to think it'll never end whilst we have the current political mindset. BTW, there's some truth to the 'cisterns of lead' being less poisonous although that wouldn't be tolerated these days. Not that long ago I've stayed in houses with lead water pipes. As far as I know they've not been changed, so until recently it was a common practice to use lead for water distribution. However, note carefully Noyce's caveat about the type of water that should be stored within them.
newbamboo 5y ago
Even if our products were manufactured here, rather than China, we might still have this problem. We can’t regulate without increasing costs.
Cryptonic 5y ago
"...linked to poverty — especially old housing in underserved communities." It's always the same story. #blacklivesmatter should also become an environmental and rapid climate change movement. Most oft those paying the price, for what mostly rich white men do to our planet, are people of color.
zz865 5y ago
NYC has a website that lists sources https://www1.nyc.gov/content/leadfree/pages/lead-sources https://www1.nyc.gov/content/leadfree/pages/lead-sources Toys, spices, supplements, cosmetics as well as the usual pottery, water, paint etc

281 points by sahin 5y ago

My house was built in the 70s and I've tested surfaces over the years and have not found any lead paint yet. Another source of lead, unfortunately, is in children's toys.

wallawe 5y ago
> Another source of lead, unfortunately, is in children's toys. Yeah this was going to be my question, is where is the lead coming from? Water, toys, what else? Having a 4 week old, seeing this concerns me so I'd love to do what I can to avoid it.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- clircle 5y ago
  Soil, water, lead pipes.
- gwbas1c 5y ago
  It's in the solder used to join pipes together. Even after "lead pipes" were banned in the US, it was still used to join copper pipe together. It's also in solder used in electronics, although I doubt that half of American children have a parent who regularly solders at home.
  - tdeck 5y ago
    Modern mass-market electronics have been made with lead-free solder for a long time because of RoHS regulations (I believe this is an EU thing but most manufacturers have retooled everything to be lead-free). I'd argue that electronics solder is a lot less of a concern anyway since it's usually only in hard-to-reach places. It's a major concern for disposal, however.
- Foobar8568 5y ago
  Paints and "metallic" jewelries for kids, it often makes the news.
- londons_explore 5y ago
  Avoid anything over 50 years old. Old stuff has lead, but also has a bunch of other things that are of dubious health effects. But new stuff contains more volatiles, more fluorinated plastics, and a far wider array of newish chemicals we don't yet have good data on (nanoparticles etc.) Overall, I'd say that unless you have a lifetime to test and research everything, it probably isn't worth making any lifestyle choices to avoid unhealthy materials, because in doing so there's a good chance you'll just switch to another. But you should ask your government to put more money into population wide health initiatives, like research into health effects of chemicals.
  - FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
    Or avoid anything that wasn't made the same way 400 years ago. ;-) Except pewter. Avoid that. But like -- wood, cast iron, earthenware, unleaded glass, natural fibers (cotton, linen, hemp), vegetable dyes: I don't see how you go wrong with those.
- kords 5y ago
  I got a bathtub stopper and I saw on the box a Prop65 warning. Not sure if it's because of the lead.
- JCBird1012 5y ago
  Smaller general aviation aircraft still use 100LL gasoline (the LL stands for low lead) - and even though there’s lead-free replacement candidates (still going through regulatory approval, at least in the US), it’s been known that areas around airports with frequent GA traffic have higher levels of lead in the air, and children living near said airports may have elevated levels of lead in their blood (https://paloaltoonline.com/news/2021/08/06/new-study-finds-local-airports-are-raising-blood-lead-levels-in-children https://paloaltoonline.com/news/2021/08/06/new-study-finds-l...)
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    >and children living near said airports may have elevated levels of lead in their blood Or is that because the upper middle class types avoid airport noise like the plague leaving the housing stock around airports cheaper, older and more leaded? The correlation between low income and lead (all known bad chemicals highly used in the past really) exposure is well studied rather than speculative.
  - verst 5y ago
    What about the pilots? I always get this fuel on my hands during preflight when sumping the fuel tanks.
    - stonemetal12 5y ago
      Lead doesn't absorb through the skin. You have to breathe or eat it. As long as you thoroughly wash your hands after preflight, the only exposure should be the fumes and exhaust in the air.
      - nate_meurer 5y ago
        No, tetraethyl lead, which is the form of lead found in fuel, is easily absorbed through the skin.
    - Symbiote 5y ago
      Maybe pilots should be required to lick a block of lead before each flight, so they have some incentive to stop using leaded fuel.
- zeven7 5y ago
  Radiolab just had an interesting episode on how we used to use leaded gasoline and how it resulted in lead being everywhere. https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/heavy-metal https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/heavy...
- zoomablemind 5y ago
  In the course of regular pediatric visits the doctor should at some point check the blood for lead early on. Not on every visit, of course, they have a schedule for the blood work. As for the concerns, if there're reasons, doctor recommened us to check the water first. There may also be free test kits from the city. Also, out of caution, we were running the water off for some time before filling pots and doing washes, esp. in the morning. Dust wise, there's no easy solution. The wet cleaning, mopping the floors regularly and maintaining reasonable humidity indoors would help keep dust down... but babies love to crawl. Perhaps being outdoors more may be an option, unless it's even more polluted. If breastfed, mama's health is equally cruicial!
- nradov 5y ago
  Lead paint is still occasionally found on toys imported from China. But after a previous recall incident the major US toy brands now have better control over their supply chains so the risk should be low. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0269749118313988 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S02697...
- nate_meurer 5y ago
  Watch out for dishes, especially older ones. The older Lenox dishes my family used for 40 years turned out to have heavily leaded glaze on the surface. By the time I was using them for my own kids, the glaze could turn a lead-check swab bright red, which means we were eating that lead. After I discovered this I replaced all of our dishes with plain white Corelle. Corelle currently uses lead-free glaze; the plain white is just me being an absolutist. Note that vintage Corelle and almost all other vintage cookware contains some amount of lead in the decorative glaze. Here's a good resource for lead content in the household items your kids are likely to encounter: https://tamararubin.com/ https://tamararubin.com/
stuaxo 5y ago
Even though lead was removed from petrol, there is a lot in soil and dust in cities, and that is still agitated out into the air. This article shows how there is lead in Londons air despite it being removed in the 90s from fuel: https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/224474/lead-from-leaded-petrol-persists-london/ https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/224474/lead-from-leaded-petr...
- foobarian 5y ago
  Remember that avgas still uses leaded fuel (though that will hopefully improve soon).
  - floren 5y ago
    Leaded avgas is only used in small, propeller-driven aircraft like Cessnas. Jet fuel does not contain lead.
    - foobarian 5y ago
      Exactly. And to think it used to be in all passenger car gasoline!
- fokinsean 5y ago
  Same thing with asbestos, there is a non-zero background level in the air because it was used in so many products for a long time.
Finnucane 5y ago
I stripped some woodwork in an 18th century house that had been painted over numerous times. I didn't bother to test, I just assumed that at least some of those layers were lead. The options for removal and disposal are limited and nasty.

refurb 5y ago

scientists saw observable levels of the toxic metal in about half As a former analytical chemist, we can detect most metals down to the parts per trillion or lower. So the more sensitive our instruments get the “more kids have lead”. With sufficiently sensitive testing you’d probably find lead in 100% of people.

wyldfire 5y ago
> most of the affected kids ... didn’t have enormous amounts of lead in their bloodstreams, and only two percent had a "high" level. But as the researchers note in their paper, there's no such thing as a safe amount of lead to have in your system. It's possible that more sensitive instruments will allow us to eventually conclude "this small amount X of lead is safe to have ...". But it makes sense to take this seriously. We know lead is bad and we know lots of environmental exposure to lead exists.
- JoeAltmaier 5y ago
  It's noise. Worry about teaching kids to look both ways etc before obsessing about this one, is my advice.
  - zeven7 5y ago
    I taught my kids to look both ways. Now what do I do?
    - JoeAltmaier 5y ago
      etc
  - Symmetry 5y ago
    So, I'd agree that there are lead levels too low to be worth worrying about. But I recall a clever study a while back where a researcher noticed that children found to be in the top decile of lead exposure got lead abatement for their homes or apartments by the city. The researchers compared them to the previous second decile (now first decile) and found a pretty significant effect size on life outcomes. This was done on poor people in city centers so the lead levels were high compared to, say, suburbanites but there are lead levels many kids in the US are exposed to that are actually a big deal.

mistrial9 5y ago

more than half of all humans, but yes, that includes kids; keywords "body burden chemicals" or more recently "forever chemicals"

roland35 5y ago

My wife and I are particularly concerned about lead, especially since there is no way to really cure lead poisoning. Any house built before the 1980s could have lead in it, with varying degrees of concern for children. Around the home here is what we found are sources of lead to worry about (or not): - Paint: lead was banned in paint in 1979, but lead was used less and less even before the cutoff date. Paint is especially a problem when it is chipping or wearing off, like on windows or doors. - Plumbing. Very old homes may have lead pipes which should be removed. Lead solder was used with copper pipes until ~1984, but this is somewhat less of a concern, depending on your water source (cities can change the water to leach less lead from pipes). - Plumbing fixtures: this is actually a pretty major source of lead in water, and luckily it is easy to change old faucets. You can run water for a minute to mitigate risk with old faucets. - Flooring: Lead can be in any ceramic tiles, but generally not too much. It is only a problem if you are removing tiles and are creating lots of dust. https://www.epa.gov/lead https://www.epa.gov/lead

neaden 5y ago
Don't forget the soil in your yard, even if the house was built yesterday the soil could still have lead contamination from leaded gasoline.
- patja 5y ago
  And decades of paint chips from previous exterior paint prep that may not have been well-contained.
- ljf 5y ago
  UK suburban soil can also be bad as people used to throw fireplace ashes in their gardens, which can concentrate contaminants. I ate from my home allotment for years until a neighbour told me he had recently tested his soil and found it heavy with lead and other rubbish.
  - agumonkey 5y ago
    did he find a way to de-pollute ?

silicon2401 5y ago

Topics like this bring modern attitudes about identity to a tricky spot. A common view is that you aren't defined by XYZ, you can choose your identity and who you are or what you do. In reality, things like lead poisoning have a very powerful and undeniable impact on who you are and what you can do, e.g. > Slow development of normal childhood behaviors, such as talking and use of words, and permanent intellectual disability are both commonly seen. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning#Effects_on_children https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning#Effects_on_chil... If lead is really a widespread problem, and especially if it continues worsening, then we'll eventually reach a point where we need to identify individuals who have been impacted by lead and ideally take pre-emptive measures to help them with the consequences of it. This makes me wonder how people with more woke attitudes approach other group-specific issues like sickle cell anemia in black people or myopia in Asian and Jewish people. In these cases, being XYZ does define you and the things you're at risk for.

shadowgovt 5y ago
I can't speak for the "woke" in general, but regarding medical conditions and their prevalence depending on racial origin: there's worlds of difference between defining what credit risk somebody is based on their skin color and informing people that skin color may be a correlative indicator that the resources should be invested to test their genetics for known maladies. The first is a crime in the United States, and the second is just good medicine.
- silicon2401 5y ago
  This is actually a great example of what I mean. It's not hard to see the conflict. Let's say the group most affected by lead in the US is green people, and that most green people have some level of significant lead poisoning. That would mean that it's very likely that green people in the US have negative impacts to their cognitive development because of this lead poisoning. So to address the issue green people are having would also mean acknowledging that as a group, green people are more likely to have developmental issues, which would then create fuel for discrimination against green people. That's what I mean, I'm curious to see how that kind of situation gets handled.

dj_gitmo 5y ago

My kid took a routine test and was found to have 5.0 μg/dL, which is elevated but not alarming. The source is most likely paint chips or dust. I'm in an old building which has lead paint that was painted over. It's totally legal to just paint over the lead paint, but since the building is settling the paint on the door frames often chips off. My landlord has been good about offering to strip in repaint the frames, but I would rather not because I feel like all of the scraping would place even more lead chips and dust in the environment. I'd rather be diligent about cleaning and have them do that strip it after we move.

bpodgursky 5y ago
Sorry, but 5.0 μg/dL is actually pretty bad. This is the new threshold at which the CDC recommends intervention; it was dropped from 10 relatively recently.
ubercore 5y ago
If done right the stripping will absolutely be the right move. Cleaning will only get you so far. Your state should have licensed lead remediation contractors
- Someone1234 5y ago
  Nobody wants to pay to do it right though. So they often just throw on a 3M mask, put up some air filters, and call it good enough. To do it the EPA-approved way can easily cost $10K with an unlimited ceiling. I'm of the maybe controversial opinion that there should be a program to help residential users with the costs, because the reality is that when the costs are too high (even if for good reason) many just do it wrong, and make the contamination worse.
  - xxpor 5y ago
    There's absolutely funding to do this in some areas. Cleveland's had a major remediation going on for years now because approximately everyone who lives in the city is too poor to pay for it. At the same time, most houses are much older than 1979, so nearly every house has some. https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2020/08/cleveland-city-council-approves-5m-to-help-landlords-tackle-lead-paint-problems-in-dwellings.html https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2020/08/cleveland-city-co...

temptemptemp111 5y ago

They inject heavy metals into children more than ever. It is called "vaccination" and it is barbaric.

1-6 5y ago

Toys are regularly a source of lead as well. Paints and materials usually end up in the mouths of young kids.

djoldman 5y ago

How about Chicago: > The biggest reason is that essentially Chicago and other cities around Illinois required the use of lead service lines all the way until 1986, long after it was recognized that lead was poisonous and other cities had stopped using it. A decade after other cities had stopped using it Chicago and other cities in Illinois were not only using it but requiring the use of lead long after everybody else. [0] https://news.wttw.com/2021/03/24/chicago-has-more-lead-service-pipes-any-other-us-city-illinois-most-any-state https://news.wttw.com/2021/03/24/chicago-has-more-lead-servi...

pdovy 5y ago
Not only that, but it's really difficult to get the service line replaced even if you're willing to pay for it. We went through the exercise a few years ago. It can be difficult to find a plumbing service willing to do this kind of work because not only do they need a special certification (makes sense) but the company has to put up something like a $5000 bond on their work with the city. On top of that replacing the portion of the line that goes from the shutoff to the main requires digging up the street, so it can only be done if your street is not currently on a "moratorium" because it was recently repaved. Finally, the city charges a significant amount in permitting fees before you even get to paying for the plumbing service, roadwork repair and landscaping. We finally gave up on that project and given the relatively low level leeching into our water just decided that we could live with using water filters specifically designed to remove lead for any water that our kids drink / cook with. If Chicago was really serious about tackling this they could start with waiving permitting fees and bond requirements and streamline the process for managing the part of the process that occurs on city property. That'd at least make replacing these more tractable during a remodel.
- jahnu 5y ago
  That's incredible. What sort of levels do you have to put up with? Is there any kind of monitor you can install to detect a spike?
  - OldHand2018 5y ago

eigenrick 5y ago

..and about 100% of their parents have lead in their blood. That's progress, right?

cobookman 5y ago

It's shameful the EPA still hasn't banned leaded aviation fuel.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
Aviation fuel is a far smaller source of lead in humans than just about anything else since it's mostly thinly distributed thousands of feet away from them (contrast with paint, handling of lead objects, plumbing, etc). I don't find anything disagreeable about the EPA refraining from spending my taxes on low impact things to appease people who just want to see a feel good message be sent.
verst 5y ago
And most pilot will have touched this fuel quite a bit - for example when checking a single engine propeller plane during preflight we sump the fuel tanks. There is always some fuel that sprays onto my hands then. I wonder how much lead this exposes me to. (I'm working on a private pilot license in a Cessna 172)
- s0rce 5y ago
  If you are particularly concerned (could be justified) you could get a small aircraft with a diesel engine, don't seem super common but might be increasing.
  - ryandrake 5y ago
    Or wear gloves during your preflight.
  - ericd 5y ago
    And that'd have the benefit of accelerating the industry's transition a little, by boosting demand.
- myself248 5y ago
  Ask your doctor, get it checked! I just got my test results back, since I'm having some odd symptoms and my doctor's kinda throwing ideas at the wall. He asked, jokingly, if there was a chance anyone was trying to poison me with arsenic. I said no, but I do a lot of soldering (like a LOT), and I make a point not to chew on my solder or wear the iron behind my ear like a pencil, but who knows whether the dust is getting absorbed or whatever. What the heck, let's check for it. My level came back at "less than 1" µg/dl, which I guess is as far down as that particular measurement can go. So that's cool, seems my precautions are adequate.

pitspotter2 5y ago

Roofers weld lead and breathe in some of the fumes here in UK. I thought perhaps they ought to carry portable fans to improve ventilation on calm days.

zz865 5y ago

Anyone know what is normal in other countries? I grew up grinding and sanding our old lead-painted house. I think its probably common.

kzrdude 5y ago
This site seems to give "normal values" for swedish kids https://www.internetmedicin.se/behandlingsoversikter/arbets-och-miljomedicin/blyforgiftning/ https://www.internetmedicin.se/behandlingsoversikter/arbets-... > Genomsnittshalten hos svenska barn är cirka 0,05 µmol/L. Halten har sjunkit sedan Sverige förbjöd blyad bensin. For kids average is 0.05 moles/L which should be 10 μg/L. (Note it's given per liter, not dL).

bobthechef 5y ago

Now imagine what children in China have in their blood.

CountDrewku 5y ago

There's a study tying drop in crime rates correlate with end of leaded gasoline usage.

spiderice 5y ago
The reason for the correlation being what?
- myself248 5y ago
  Lead causes mood disorders.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- CountDrewku 5y ago
  https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/prevention/health-effects.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/prevention/health-effects.htm Take your pick. If exposed during childhood it results in essentially mental retardation and impulse issues. The thought is this led to more issues with crime. This article discusses the study- https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2017/06/01/new-evide https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2017/06/01/new-evide...

karaterobot 5y ago

This article is pretty bad, for all the usual clickbaity reasons. It's worth at least scanning the study they're citing, which is (even as a layman) pretty easy to read.[1] [1] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2784260 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/...

prepend 5y ago

The important question is how many kids have 5 micrograms of lead per decaliter of blood [0]. This is the reference blood lead level and much more useful for tracking progress (or decline). I’m surprised that the article sticks with the “no lead is good” rather than the public health level. [0] https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/prevention/blood-lead-levels.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/prevention/blood-lead-levels.h...

distortedsignal 5y ago
You're close here, but you're not quite right. The link that you posted mentions 5 migrograms per deciliter of blood, while your post mentions 5 micrograms per decaliter of blood. This is a 100 fold misstatement. A deciliter of blood is 1/10 of a liter, while a decaliter is 10 liters. For reference, I believe that the average adult male has roughly 10L of blood, so 5 micrograms per decaliter would be 5 micrograms in the body of an adult, whereas 5 micrograms per deciliter would be probably something like 5 micrograms in a baby. I don't necessarily trust this site (https://www.healthline.com/health/how-much-blood-in-human-body https://www.healthline.com/health/how-much-blood-in-human-bo...), but it says that babies have ~75 mL (0.075L, or 0.75dL) while the average adult has 4500 - 5700 mL of blood (4.5-5.7L, or 45-57dL, or 0.45-0.57DL). I'm also surprised that the article sticks with their "no lead is good" posture.

hallarempt 5y ago

Only half?

DantesKite 5y ago

Is there no biological mechanism in the body to help promote the removal of lead?

croes 5y ago
No
Igelau 5y ago
Heavy metals can appear in sweat. Whether this phenomenon is enough to have any therapeutic potential, I can't say.

graeme 5y ago

How big a concern is lead in adults, and is there anything that can be done about long run exposure to lower levels? I live in Montreal, and found out the city pipes in my area had lead. So I've been drinking it about ten years; have bottled water now. My understanding is that chelation is good for acute exposure but wasn't sure it's recommended for lower levels. Now do I know if this is actually something to be concerned about, at low levels in an adult. I had the city worker do a measure without flushing: 16 ug/L (I drink bottled water now so there's no ongoing exposure. I also can't be sure my old places had it, so it could have just been for two years that I was exposed, but likely was for ten)

xyst 5y ago
Bottled water often comes from the same sources as your tap, so the "no ongoing exposure" is not always guaranteed. Additionally, bottled water companies (at least in the states) is not regulated by the same laws as municipal/city water companies.
- graeme 5y ago
  That varies by area. This is Eska water, from an esker in the north of quebec. It doesn't have lead pipes. The lead in Montreal's water comes from old city pipes.

nate_meurer 5y ago

A lady named Tamara Rubin has spent years testing household products and other commonly handled objects for lead. She uses an XRF tester, which is the gold standard for high accuracy lead testing. She has thousands of items listed, from dishes to door hardware to childrens toys, and a lot of these will put a family at high risk of lead poisoning. There's some woo-y stuff on her website, but her XRF data is a gold mine: https://tamararubin.com/ https://tamararubin.com/ I personally have used both XRF and swabs on various objects around by home, and I found some really scary shit. The scariest were the older Lenox dishes we used for years; the decorative glaze on the eating surface tested high in lead via XRF, and the swab lit up bright red which means that lead was also coming off in our food. I threw away all our dishes and bought new Corelle. Other problems I found include old electrical cords and things made out of brass, including all plumbing fittings made before about 2012. These will also turn a swab red, especially if there's any corrosion, which means the lead is mobile.

giantg2 5y ago
I think it can depend on other factors too. For example, lead crystal drinkwater is considered safe as long as you aren't leaving the liquid in there for long periods of time. It's possible that's similar to the dishes. Stuff like leaded fuel exhaust or paint flakes are more likely to be ingested/absorbed.
- nate_meurer 5y ago
  This is why the swabs are an important tool in addition to the XRF. If the swab turns red, then by definition it's wiping mobile lead from the surface of the object you're testing. Using electrical cords as an example, years ago I went through my house and swabbed all of the cords. If I found a cord that turned a swab red, I either threw the thing away if it was cheap, like an old coffee grinder, or I replaced the cord if I didn't want to replace the whole machine, like the cords on all of our Oreck vacuum cleaners. A lot of newer cords have lead in the insulation as indicated by XRF, but won't turn a swab pink. These I don't worry about too much, but I still tell the kids to wash their hand after handling them. EDIT: The LeadCheck swabs are pretty expensive, and using a whole swab for just one or two objects is ridiculously wasteful, but I have a trick that makes them cheap. I cut the cotton head off of a Q-tip cosmetic swab so that it's just a rolled paper rod. I activate the LeadCheck swab and squeeze out a drop of the liquid onto the upright surface of the swab. I dab the end of the decapitated Q-tip in the liquid, and I use that to swab the surface of whatever I'm testing. If something turns the paper red, I clip the end of the shaft off with nail clippers to get a fresh end, and continue to the next object. I can get dozens of tests out of a single swab this way. I make a list of things to test in one afternoon, and I can get the whole pile done for the cost of a single swab, instead of spending hundreds of dollars it would take to use a new LeadCheck swab for each object. Plus, the hard paper Q-tip shaft works better for aggressively rubbing on surfaces.

croes 5y ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead%E2%80%93crime_hypothesis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead%E2%80%93crime_hypothesi...

amelius 5y ago

As a kid I did a lot of lead-based soldering. Could this be an issue?

giantg2 5y ago

It would be nice if they had some more data in here. Instead of statements like, “For lead there’s no too low. We want zero.”. Like what is the sensitivity of the test? If we get more sensitive tests, does that mean out target changes? Where are the limits that we see issues?

Lammy 5y ago

I wonder what percentage have detectable levels of PFTE/PET/etc? At least we know the long-term effects of lead: https://particleandfibretoxicology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12989-020-00358-y https://particleandfibretoxicology.biomedcentral.com/article... "Although these combined studies highlight the possibility of uptake and translocation of micro- and nanoplastics into the human body following oral and inhalation exposure, there is an overall scarcity of studies that conscientiously and systematically investigated the extent of particle translocation to different organs in relation to particle dose and particle size. Moreover, the potential health risks resulting from micro- and nanoplastics exposure, uptake and translocation is poorly investigated and is an important matter of ongoing debate."

40acres 5y ago

I was diagnosed w/ ADHD in 2019. When doing research and seeing what the causes could be -- I noticed that lead paint was among possible contributors. I decided to google what lead paint looked like, and realized the apartment I was raised in was covered in it.

ridiculous_fish 5y ago

If you are interested in lead exposure as a global problem, I recommend the "There's Lead in your Turmeric" episode of The Weeds podcast. Some of the largest sources of lead are adulterated turmeric, improperly fired pottery, and others that I never would have expected.

TheRealNGenius 5y ago

Wait till you learn that hobby aircraft still use leaded fuel

mdavis6890 5y ago

The problem with looking at things this way is that there is no discussion of amounts and dose-dependent effects. The article just says "For lead there's no 'too low'". and "we want zero." Fine enough, but as we are very good at measuring ever-smaller quantities of things we will find all manner of out-of-place chemicals that we have been tolerating just fine. I'm sure I have measurable amounts of arsenic, lead, aluminum, chlorine, radioactivity, etc in my body right now, in levels that do not have a meaningful impact on my health. The real question we should ask is whether there is substantial evidence of a negative health impact from the levels of lead that are measured. We should want to know exactly what levels were measured in these kids and be able to plot it out. We should have some idea of the health impacts of various doses. With that we could come to more meaningful conclusions.

sparker72678 5y ago
Exactly. There's no scale of risk/impact in these conversations, it's always binary.

cultofmetatron 5y ago

well I mean.. where else are red states going to get their voters?

maxerickson 5y ago

My dad was a civil engineer on the clean water side of public health. In the late 1970s, when my parents moved into the house I grew up in, he replaced the supply line to the street and most of the plumbing. We never talked to him about it, but lead seems like a good guess (a side benefit, the water pressure from a slightly larger meter and clean pipes is a wonderful thing).

hilbert42 5y ago

If you go to here to the Internet Archive https://archive.org/details/boysbookofindust00noyc https://archive.org/details/boysbookofindust00noyc and view or download the book titled The boy's book of industrial information by Elisha Noyce published in 1858 — note I said 1858 - 163 years ago — and then turn to (book page 58, not the PDF #) then on the topic of WHITE LEAD you'll read this amazing statement: "White lead is a very poisonous substance, and produces the disease called painters' colic, when taken into the system in minute quantities and for a long time, so that all who have much to do with this dangerous substance, as house-painters and artists, should be extremely careful that their hands are well washed frequently, and especially before going to meals. Cisterns of lead, used for containing water, very soon become coated inside with a thin flim (sic) of sulphate of lead, this prevents the water from acting further on the lead, and the water from such cisterns is never found to be poisonous; but, if distilled water were used, it would act rapidly on the lead, corroding it, and causing a deposit in the water of white lead, which would render such water dangerous in the extreme." Remember this book was written for the information of boys; it wasn't in a new learned research paper from the Royal Society, etc. which means that 163 years ago it was very common knowledge that lead was very toxic. So how the fuck did we get to the point where we let the likes of Thomas Midgley Jr. and Big Industry introduce tetraethyllead - leaded gasoline ca 1923 and then pollute the world for another 70 or so years? Why weren't there more stringent regulations on white lead in paints, especially during its removal (somewhat like the asbestos regulations of today)? I acknowledge that avoiding lead in paint until about the mid 20th Century would have been difficult but at least some attempt to reduce its spread much earlier than when it was removed from paint should have been undertaken. This is the same old story with industry doing its thing and to hell with the consequences. Lead was known to be dangerous in Roman times, so was mercury and asbestos and some 2000 years later we're still cursed with the mismanagement of these dangerous substance. Moreover, it doesn't stop there, we knew cigarettes and tobacco were dangerous long before the 1950s and see the fight we had over that. ...And there are many more such examples without even having to look for them. It's a never-ending battle with Big Industry, Monsanto, Bayer, etc, etc. I'm beginning to think it'll never end whilst we have the current political mindset. BTW, there's some truth to the 'cisterns of lead' being less poisonous although that wouldn't be tolerated these days. Not that long ago I've stayed in houses with lead water pipes. As far as I know they've not been changed, so until recently it was a common practice to use lead for water distribution. However, note carefully Noyce's caveat about the type of water that should be stored within them.

newbamboo 5y ago

Even if our products were manufactured here, rather than China, we might still have this problem. We can’t regulate without increasing costs.

Cryptonic 5y ago

"...linked to poverty — especially old housing in underserved communities." It's always the same story. #blacklivesmatter should also become an environmental and rapid climate change movement. Most oft those paying the price, for what mostly rich white men do to our planet, are people of color.

zz865 5y ago

NYC has a website that lists sources https://www1.nyc.gov/content/leadfree/pages/lead-sources https://www1.nyc.gov/content/leadfree/pages/lead-sources Toys, spices, supplements, cosmetics as well as the usual pottery, water, paint etc