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The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used
- themodelplumber 5y agoThank you for the writeup, it seems like they have done a great job with The Framework. Does it come in that beige-looking color shown on the yellow background? I think I might want a beige laptop, something with the fine lines of The Framework and the raw aesthetic appeal of Lappy 486.
- animal_spirits 5y agoAnd don't forget that classy startup noise.
- janandonly 5y agoI just bought my very first MacBook Air ever. But seeing a laptop like this, with everything being customisable (in contrast to my Apple laptop: nothing can be customised or replaced by me) I feel a tinge of regret...
- spijdar 5y agoWell, if you regret it more than a tinge, and you just bought it from Apple, you can return it within a 2 week window, I believe.
- giantrobot 5y agoThey can also easily sell it for 80% of the retail price if it's outside the return window.
- sz4kerto 5y agoFYI this is an US thing.
- MangoCoffee 5y agoi still have my first macbook. i was able to upgrade the HD and RAM. its sad that you can't do that anymore.
- Pr0ject217 5y agoCool, but why isn't the CPU bring-your-own?
- wheybags 5y agoBecause they are BGA chips designed to be soldered on, and most people do not have the capacity to do that at home.
- bserge 5y agoAnd why are they BGA chips these days? That's the real problem. Did mobile CPUs somehow advance past desktop ones while I wasn't looking?
- quocanh 5y agoOf course they have! Take a look at ARM. Or Apple's M1 chip. It's crazy what mobile CPUs can do nowadays.
- bserge 5y agoAnd look at a Ryzen with an integrated GPU. Wow, it has pins and fits in a socket, it's a miracle!
- cultofmetatron 5y agopower efficiency? saving weight?
- ad133 5y agoThis looks really cool, but the author... is... replacing their laptop every year? Like, I'm writing this on an 8 year old MBP that has survived as my round-the-house driver because it still does everything well. My daily driver is getting on a bit now (3yr) and my desktop only just got replaced after 5 years. Forget the cost, but the waste!
- lapetitejort 5y agoFurther down the article: > The environmental consequences of that system weren't lost on me, even given my very good track-record of re-homing my old computers with people who needed them.
- qolop 5y agoThe author does address that > The environmental consequences of that system weren't lost on me, even given my very good track-record of re-homing my old computers with people who needed them.
- czechdeveloper 5y agoThat's not really addressing it. It's just acknowledging it.
- dathinab 5y agoIf it causes other people not to by new laptops, it kinda is addressing it. (As long as we assume the people getting the old laptop would have bought a new laptop, which might or might not be the case.)
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- gattilorenz 5y agoAnd apparently it made sense for him to pay 150$/year to get his laptop fixed in 24h if needed, and buy two powerbooks at once... I guess what he really should have bought is a Toughbook instead of a ThinkPad?
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y agoI wish that I needed a laptop so that I could buy one. I sincerely hope this company succeeds so that they are around when I do need a laptop. > Yesterday, I put my 2019 Thinkpad on my pile of "laptops to refurbish and donate." I've bought a new Thinkpad almost every year since 2006. I think that's over. wat
- smoldesu 5y agoIf it's any consolation, I've bought a used Thinkpad every year since 2015.
- fouc 5y agohow do you get rid of the doubly used Thinkpads?
- smoldesu 5y agoOnly one of them has broken so far, and it was only an issue with the display. I repurposed it into a homelab/Podman host and it's been able to work just fine! As a quick aside, if you're ever one of the 15 people who will likely do this, buy a Thinkpad dock. They're cheap, and it basically triples your I/O!
- thinkingemote 5y agoJust to continue the question, what do you do with the other laptops? You should have at least 4 or 5 more which are unaccounted for. I imagine only one is used currently.
- smoldesu 5y agoI gave an old workstation to my mom and a spare T440p to my brother, now the x201 and T460s occupy my tinker station and bedroom respectively. Oh, and there's also a T420 that my other brother uses as a media server, but that's not really mine anymore :p
- AnEro 5y agoI am saving currently for it and I can't describe the vague worry I feel that this will become the next big thing. Where I'll be refreshing their page every morning for new drops to attempt to get them before they sell out
- reidjs 5y agoI don't personally want an exciting laptop. I want a laptop that works with all my other stuff (phone, tv, printer, various software) the moment I open it.
- kiba 5y agoGood news. If you have things that work with ubuntu. It should work with this laptop too. With the exception of being able to repair and replace parts, the Frame.work laptop is very boring.
- nsriv 5y agoHighlighted on the Linus Tech Tips video on the Framework laptop, there are thoughtful touches like drivers installing in unattended mode upon OS install, so the team clearly puts importance on that seamless functional experience too.
- MikusR 5y agoCan you provide an example, or that is just a dream you have?
- tbrock 5y agoHe lost a little bit of credibility saying the Macbooks have terrible build quality… compared to a thinkpad they are on par or better, compared to everything else they are head and shoulders above.
- mixmastamyk 5y agoPowerbooks he mentioned, didn’t he? Different era.
- nautilius 5y agoHe didn't say that. He talks about Powerbooks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook
- hobs 5y agoHe did not say that, he said PowerBooks had terrible build quality, which they definitely did.
- riffic 5y agoPart of "build quality" in my mind is the ability to repair your device. Apple has shown this to be something they do not care highly about: https://www.ifixit.com/laptop-repairability?sort=score https://www.ifixit.com/laptop-repairability?sort=score While, yes, they may be built well in your mind, in many other people's minds they aren't.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- qudat 5y agoI'm trying to hold out for an AMD cpu on the framework but I might not be able to wait much longer.
- specialist 5y agoDitto. My other deal breaker is the fit & finish of Mac's touchpad. The qwan of it. If frame.work + Ubuntu come within striking distance, I'd buy.
- tombert 5y agoIt feels like for years we were constantly told by these corporations "it's impossible to have slim, tiny laptops and make them customizable", and I guess at some level I believed that, and just accepted that laptops with upgradable components were a thing of the past. After seeing the framework, I'm more than a little annoyed that I fell for this. They proved you can have a slim, clean laptop that's somewhat modular, and more impressively, with something like 1% of Apple's budget to do it. Had I known about it, I probably wouldn't have paid an arm and a leg for a maxed-out Macbook Pro a year ago. MacOS is nice, probably my favorite consumer operating system currently available, but Apple's walled garden approach is beyond annoying.
- topspin 5y agoLinus (the "tech tips" one) said something that sticks in my mind: "The only reason other companies can't do this - and Framework proved it - is because they don't care."
- epistasis 5y agoWell, the other reason is that customers don't care either. I certainly don't. The last desktop build I made 5 years ago hasn't had a single component changed in that entire time.
- Grimm1 5y agoWell no, you and people like you don’t, but as evidenced by all the people buying this there is a segment of the market that clearly does.
- bserge 5y agoI've only had laptops for over a decade. And I had system board failures. Honestly, I'd rage if I had to throw it out together with the perfectly good CPU, GPU/VRAM and maybe half the RAM and pay for a used replacement board with all of those integrated. Or what, buy a rework station and risk damaging them or having them work improperly due to shit soldering skills? I guess I could learn to fix the board itself. But that's pretty hard, there are no schematics, no components for most laptops, failures are not evident and one component can lead to a cascade of failures across the board. A used board was $100. Now they're ~$500 because there's a CPU and GPU there. My next computer will be a desktop in a handcrafted case (I'm also trying to fit a Li-Ion battery/UPS between the PSU and components).
- TOMDM 5y agoThese laptops would be an instant buy from me if I could get a new AMD chip instead of the Intel CPU's.
- collinvandyck76 5y agoSame here but for fan noise. Since I've gotten the m1 macbook air, I don't think I can go back to a laptop that runs hot and needs a fan. In the event that I must get a non-m1 laptop, I can definitely see myself buying the framework laptop and putting ubuntu on it.
- webmobdev 5y agoI've never met someone before that cares about cpu fan noise. Genuinely. It never bothers me so I have never thought about it. Perhaps also because my workflow involves playing music when I work to make me more productive.
- soperj 5y agoThey likely used apple for a long time before this, and they had a ton of fan noise. So likely wasn't an issue previously.
- speedgoose 5y agoGetting a noise less and fast laptop is a good improvement. It's like going from a fossil car to an electric one. So much less noise and vibrations. The noise is acceptable but it's annoying to go back.
- soperj 5y agoAs someone who bikes, electric cars make a lot of noise still when they're not going under 10km/hr.
- dinkleberg 5y agoAs someone who records lots of videos it is quite frustrating. The less noise the better.
- spamizbad 5y agoI have a DIY version preordered, due in October - planning on transferring over my NVME SSD and 32GB of RAM from my busted, falling apart XPS15 into the new Framework.
- oldandboring 5y agoI own one. It's awesome.
- MMS21 5y agoHow are the speakers?
- oldandboring 5y agoNot sure. I don't use them.
- joombaga 5y agoThey're pretty garbage. Probably the worst part of the system.
- philote 5y agoThe author spent some time explaining the need to have a reliable laptop and spending $150 for 24-hour service and having two Powerbooks at once. But there was no mention of anything about reliability and repairs (well, replacement parts) for the Framework. I'm curious if he plans to keep a second Framework laptop in case parts are sold out, take too long to ship, etc.
- Aaronn 5y agoHe might have to. As far as I can tell they haven’t even started selling individual parts yet. They all just say “Coming soon” on the website. I’m not sure what they are waiting for.
- kelnos 5y agoMy guess is that they are using up all their manufacturing capacity to sell new full laptops (and DIY kits). Their current manufacturing setup seems to be that they periodically batch a bunch of what are essentially pre-orders and then get things manufactured after the fact. Once they're more established and have money in the bank (hopefully that happens), they can think about ramping up manufacturing and actually keeping inventory before it's been spoken for. Until then, at least the commodity parts (RAM, storage, WiFi card) can be replaced with off-the-shelf parts bought from NewEgg or wherever.
- pshirshov 5y agoAMD please? What about Coreboot? Nothing? Ehm...
- MMS21 5y ago>That tool – a small screwdriver – is also sufficient to upgrade the CPU CPU isn't up-gradable without switching out the entire mainboard, which I'm fine with, once I get an AMD version that is :)
- flatiron 5y agoive seen a lot of requests for an AMD version but i always see people complain about AMD's linux support. Do you plan on running windows? If you are planning on Linux is the support really as bad as people complain. I say that because intel's linux support seems to me as top notch. ive never really had driver issues that i can think of
- MMS21 5y agoThat's weird. I always see people claiming AMD is superior for Linux due to their opensource drivers (intel and nvidia are not). btw certain distro devs were provided with Framework laptops a while back https://frame.work/blog/linux-on-the-framework-laptop https://frame.work/blog/linux-on-the-framework-laptop
- foxfluff 5y agoIntel does write open source drivers for Linux. In my experience they are more reliable than AMD's.
- MMS21 5y agoI could only find open source drivers for intel graphics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_open-source_graphics_device_driver#Intel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_open-source_graphics_... https://01.org/linuxgraphics https://01.org/linuxgraphics
- Unklejoe 5y agoAll of Intel's Ethernet/WiFi adapters have open source drivers on Linux too.
- ashtonkem 5y agoI still remained baffled by the popularity of the laptop. Literally everyone I know works with them fixed in one location; their desk. Yes, some people do need mobility, but this appears to be a minority of consumers. We could’ve had all this repairability and modularity years ago if most consumers just admitted that really they wanted a desktop all along. It also fixed complaints about keyboards.
- rcthompson 5y agoEven when I'm home 90% of the time during COVID, I use my laptop in lots of places: my desk, my bed, my dining table, my kitchen counter, my couch. I can't drag my desktop setup all around my apartment like that.
- webmobdev 5y agoIt makes sense if you use the laptop as a desktop - plugging it to a bigger monitor with an external keyboard and mouse. Otherwise it's hard to have good ergonomic with a laptop and you can't work long hours on it without developing some body pain.
- ashtonkem 5y agoI don’t use my laptop in any of those places because my desktop setup isn’t there. Laptop keyboards are awful to type on, why put yourself through that? I’d rather get my work done at the desk and then enjoy my hammock or couch without the computer, preferably with a good book.
- moepstar 5y agoLooks gorgeous - i wonder how the trackpad is though, otherwise seems to be a solid contender to a Macbook...
- sonofhans 5y agoI wonder about the trackpad, too. Apple has always smoked everyone else at trackpads. After using theirs for so many years, every time I touch another it feels crusty and unresponsive.
- nsriv 5y agoWith Windows installs, they use Windows Precision drivers and feel at least as good as a Surface Book trackpad. YMMV with Linux however.
- OJFord 5y agoWith Linux, worth following (or funding!) this work (HN passim): https://bill.harding.blog/2021/06/06/linux-touchpad-like-macbook-update-touchpad-gestures-land-to-qt-gimp-and-x-server/ https://bill.harding.blog/2021/06/06/linux-touchpad-like-mac...
- joombaga 5y agoIt's pretty good. The click is definitely better than my 16-inch MBP (it's physical instead of motor-driven). Moving the cursor feels precise.
- IE6 5y agoAs a long time thinkpad user I love mine. Only problem I have now is my go-to OS Ubuntu does a really bad job of fractional scaling out of the box and none of the workarounds seem to really solve the problem. Sadly the crappy screens on my thinkpads more or less "hid" this problem from me for years.
- ThatMedicIsASpy 5y agoas a thinkpad user - there is no keyboard comparable to it. and that is one of the most important component (in a laptop) to me
- IE6 5y agoI agree. I really like the keyboard on the original Google Pixelbook, the Pixelbook Go, as well as the Framework. Nothing compares to the pre-chiclet Thinkpad keyboard though (IMHO).
- joombaga 5y agoI'm using 150% on Pop!_OS (an Ubuntu derivative) with Wayland and it looks great.
- IE6 5y agoI might try that. I've tried Ubuntu 20 and 21 and they still look blurry to me pretty much no matter what I do. maybe I can figure out what PopOS includes in their distro and I can set that up on Ubuntu.
- the_other 5y agoBut why the dongles? The go against all the principles of the rest of the design. They’re proprietary, consumable, and they waste space in the chasis. They limit what you can do with the USB-C they pass through too.
- technofiend 5y agoOnly a guess but they also act as a sacrificial device in place of the motherboard's USB-C connector. I've read here on HN that Macbook USB-C adapters regularly fail.
- LeonenTheDK 5y agoLouis Rossmann recently reviewed the Framework laptop and basically said the exact same thing, about them taking a lot of the stress off the soldered USB-C portion and transferring it to the chassis instead.
- azdle 5y agoThey're not totally proprietary, they've even released designs CC-BY that you can use to make your own: https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/ExpansionCards https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/ExpansionCards
- up6w6 5y agoThey are actually open-source[1] so you can print your own case in a 3d printer and put the circuit you want inside. About the USB-C limitation, I initially thought it was a limitation too but Im not sure after learning that you can use them as thunderbolt ports. Anyway, I think the notebook seems to be thin enough and the possibilities of dongle are exciting[2] - like magsafe chargers[3] (which seems to have some patent problems). [1] https://community.frame.work/c/expansion-cards/developer-program/90 https://community.frame.work/c/expansion-cards/developer-pro... [2] https://community.frame.work/t/what-new-expansion-card-types-do-you-want-to-see-released/193/7 https://community.frame.work/t/what-new-expansion-card-types... [3] https://community.frame.work/t/youtuber-elevated-systems-makes-a-magsafe-charger-and-rf-dongle/7415 https://community.frame.work/t/youtuber-elevated-systems-mak...
- rhn_mk1 5y agoIf a product manager is listening: you have my interest. I'll be excited when mouse buttons become available. It'll make my shortlist when it has Coreboot, and if Libreboot is on, I'll be obliged to give you my money.
- renke1 5y agoI am growing increasingly unhappy with Thinkpads in general, but as far as I know there is no real alternative for TrackPoint users. There are some that have a TrackPoint but they lack three physical mouse button that are in reach of ones thumbs.
- philliphaydon 5y agoWhy are you growing unhappy? (I have a X1 Extreme Gen 1, and Legion 7, and Legion 5 Pro, so I'm curious)
- renke1 5y agoA few things. The newer TrackPoint caps are not good. I actually had to order some 3D printed one from some Japanese guy. Also my Thinkpad T14 is throttling to the extent that I had to install tools [1] (?) that fix this problem. Battery seems to be bad as well. Intel by the way, I wanted to have Thunderbolt for an eGPU. [1]: https://github.com/erpalma/throttled https://github.com/erpalma/throttled
- philliphaydon 5y agoWork gave me a dell XPS last year. I had it for a Week and gave it back because when I turned it on. The fans spin full throttle. And the laptop still throttled itself. So I use my X1E for work. The nipple is as good but it’s flat for the thin profile. I upgraded all 3 laptops with more or better ram, wifi, and ssds. And currently ordering a Traditional Chinese keyboard for the L5P for the wifey. But I took AMD for the legions.
- renke1 5y agoI regret not opting for the Ryzen variant, but I really wanted to replace my old desktop computer for the occasional gaming session (although they are rare these days) and hence the need for Thunderbolt.
- matthewn 5y ago
- webmobdev 5y agoI am so happy to see the Framework laptop get the good publicity it deserves, and I hope it helps them grow much more. My fear is that when it becomes popular enough, one of the BigTech's may just make an offer too good to refuse, and just buy and bury the company.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- asddubs 5y ago>I've bought a new Thinkpad almost every year since 2006. Why? I bought a thinkpad and used it for 7 years. Who needs a new laptop every year? Especially these days Sorry I know it's besides the point of the article but it stood out to me
- Groxx 5y agoThis is covered in the article.
- tcskeptic 5y agoHe discusses his reasons in the article, it was a reward to himself for quitting smoking.
- asddubs 5y agothat's not really a reason why you would need/want that though. Like my gripe isn't that he's wasting money, it's that there is no point to doing so because there's no tangible improvement between one generation and the next. So I guess it is an answer to a "why" but not the "why" I mean, if that makes sense
- dreyfan 5y ago> The third, a giant, heavy Carbon X1 A 2019 Carbon X1 (14") weighs 2.4lbs and the laptop they're drooling over starts at 2.8lbs.
- RandyRanderson 5y agoVery exciting. Hoping they will make something similar with: . 15 or 16 inch chassis . 4k display (OLED, if possible) . largest battery they allow on an airplane . no keypad . 2x speakers facing up . AMD, if possible . arrow keys as Apple does it . charge a premium for this - ppl will pay it!!! Basically just copy what Apple does but with a little customization. I know this would be difficult but hoping someone from framework will read this. No one wants to buy a dell XPS but its the most popular windows laptop in its class for a reason.
- yupper32 5y agoIt sounds like a MacBook with extra steps. Why not just get a MacBook? What customization do you really need?
- destitude 5y agoBecause MacBooks can't be easily fixed by end-users or upgradeable.
- yupper32 5y agoHow often does that actually need to happen these days? It feels like a solution looking for a problem.
- christophilus 5y agoI switched to a Dell XPS + Linux when my Macbook crapped out after only a few months. The Apple store shipped it out and it took over a week before I got it back. If that laptop had been a Framework laptop, I could have just ordered the part, swapped it out, and moved along.
- fouc 5y agoIf everything works then it feels like a luxury, but if something breaks it feels like a necessity. Being able to upgrade components also lets you buy at a cheaper price initially and then grow it to suit your needs later. Also the laptop will be probably end up being usable for a decade or more. I recently upgraded my 2015 MBP's SSD from 256GB to 1TB (it's the last upgradeable macbook). It's great to get a significant speed boost on read/write times and more disk space. And it only cost me about $100-150 to make it happen. The 2015 MBP is still fast and snappy for my purposes, it's hard to justify getting a new laptop yet.
- sneak 5y ago> The speakers are loud enough. I will miss the Apple speakers when I am finally forced to switch away.
- AdmiralAsshat 5y agoThe Framework is definitely on my radar for next laptop. I kinda want to wait and see how it pans out in the long-term, though. I'll be eagerly awaiting for the Gen 2 version of the laptop, or the "Framework Laptop - 1 year later" reviews. For the moment, my Dell XPS 13 laptop from 2015 is still going strong, and I'd hate to ditch a brand/model that's been working reliably for me for six years for new-shiny thing from a company that might go under in a year.
- adminscoffee 5y agoon a fixed income because covid took out my business, how would buying this over what it looks like be any better? granted mac has already a ton of PR issues involving privacy, i guess this laptop would address that?
- JoeDaDude 5y agoInclude an option to include a software defined radio and I'm in.
- superkuh 5y agoBut why? Putting a SDR in a laptop seems counterproductive from an electrical and radio interference POV. The USB2/3 ports are the option to plug in a software defined radio. Unless you mean some pcie interface top end SDR, in which case you probably have the money to throw around to get this custom.
- bityard 5y agoThose little square modules are just USB-C ports, I believe, so jamming an RTL-SDR dongle inside a 3D-printed case shouldn't be a monumental task.
- mikenew 5y agoBeen extremely happy with mine the past couple months. The little modular port attachments seemed like a novelty at first, but now it feels absurd that you'd buy a laptop with a bunch of "hardcoded" ports that you can't ever change. The only real Linux related quirk I've run into so far is that you have to disable panel self refresh (it's on by default and causes stuttering). Other than that tiny thing I pretty much just installed my stuff and started using it. One little anecdote: I got a card in the mail from Framework saying that there was a problem with the cable for the touchpad, and it had instructions on how to fix it. Contrast that to my experience with Apple where they would delete forum threads for laptop problems and spend years denying issues until legal action forced them to acknowledge it. Anyway, I'm a fan. I'm really looking forward to when the marketplace opens up with some new parts. I really want my blank keyboard. I'm hoping 2021 will be the year I can own a laptop without a god damn windows logo emblazoned on the keys.
- ericpauley 5y agoMaybe I need some convincing here. How is the "modular port" concept any different than a universal port with dongles (i.e., how Macs have been since 2016). To me the fact that the port attachments are recessed is little more than a gimmick. Especially as all of my devices have transitioned to USB-C anyway, dongles/"modular ports" feel more like a stopgap measure than one requiring a permanent form factor change.
- s0rce 5y agoI think the proliferation of usb-c has finally solved the universal port issue, you can just buy a 3rd party dongle with HDMI/displayport, usb-c (with pass through charging), sd-card, usb, etc. and it works great. Meets my needs pretty well.
- fossuser 5y agoYeah - I think Apple's approach is the right tradeoff, though I admit I think it's cool from a nerd that likes gadgets perspective. If there's enough of a market for that that they can survive that's cool, but I think there's a reason it's not the default design (that isn't some cynical one about planned obsolescence).
- lom 5y ago> replace the CPU I believe you cannot replace/upgrade the CPU. At least that’s what I remember reading. You’ll have to buy a new one, but you can always use the old ram, wifi chip (if it’s still supported) and SSD.
- vaidhy 5y agoThis is all great, but I hope the oct batch ships now. Just waiting for it to show up is driving me crazy :)
- Waterluvian 5y agoI don’t really want an exciting laptop. And I don’t want dongles that plug INTO the laptop. I just want a more powerful 1st gen unibody aluminum MacBook. That was the sweet spot for me. Good ports. Removable battery. Removable memory. Removable disk.
- vandahm 5y agoThat was the best computer I ever owned. I used it every day for seven years, long after it was obsolete.
- julianlam 5y agoSurprised there's no AMD option. Would love to finally have a slim laptop that can actually play games at 1080p via Vega gfx
- wtf_is_up 5y agoIt's a cool design overall, but I'll never buy a laptop without a thinkpoint/nub/nipple/whatever pointing device on the keyboard.
- ben_ 5y agoThis site uses GNU Terry Pratchett and I appreciate that. http://www.gnuterrypratchett.com/ http://www.gnuterrypratchett.com/
- brightball 5y ago> I really miss my Thinkpad Trackpoint This is one of those comments I will never understand. Every single time I have tried to use one of those things the only thought that goes through my mind is, "This is the dumbest mouse interface I have ever seen. Why would anyone ever use this thing?" And then I see comments like this. I don't get it. The ergonomics of those little nubs are awful.
- OJFord 5y agoI've never had a laptop with one long enough to get used to it, but I assume it's because it's right there in the keyboard where your hands already are, rather than because it's any better at moving the pointer around than a trackpad/mouse.
- halotrope 5y agoIts all about leaving the hands on the home row. If you don‘t touch type you will not „get“ it.
- ip26 5y agoImagine being able to mouse literally while you type. That's the Trackpoint, and it makes up for everything else about it.
- rockostrich 5y agoMaybe it's an acquired taste? I have fond memories of using nubs on ThinkPads. I think Apple's done a great job at improving the trackpad experience on Macbooks but it still doesn't compare to not needing to leave the keyboard and also never needing to lift your finger to continue moving the mouse.
- dnr 5y agoThis is one of those religious arguments where no one will every change their mind, but I feel like a trackpad is the dumbest mouse interface and can't use anything but a trackpoint (or a mouse of course). Consider dragging and dropping: with a trackpoint you click with your thumb, then use your pointer finger to move the mouse cursor any distance you like, without moving your hand, then release. With a trackpad you press the pad and then move your finger some distance and then... oops, you hit the edge of the pad. Better abort and try again, starting the motion from the opposite pad. Except if I'm on a non-apple trackpad, and I have to click near the top of the pad, it's nearly impossible because the click hinge is near the top. Or maybe I do a finger swap to reset the drag position, and hope that the OS doesn't interpret my moment of two fingers touching as some kind of gesture. Anyway, it does take some time to get used to, so you won't get it in a few minutes or even a few hours. Try a week. Also make sure you're using a lenovo one (the dell/toshiba ones aren't as good), and very importantly, that you have a fresh cap. Worn out caps make it really frustrating.
- jjice 5y agoI'm just waiting for an excuse to purchase a Framework laptop. My thinkpad is hanging in there (2014 model, purchased used) and I have a desktop that is more than powerful enough for the type of development I do on my own time. As soon as I get the chance, I'll be ordering one of these. Hopefully there's an AMD version out by then!
- filleokus 5y agoThis isn’t a laptop for me, I want different trade offs. But I’m really excited to see it enter the space, and hopefully they will become a viable market contender. That might both satisfy the demand often expressed, by people like us, for more upgradability/repair ability and make other manufacturers steal some of their best ideas.
- bogwog 5y agoWhat kind of trade offs? The only thing I can think of is that you want extreme performance, like those "VR-ready" gaming laptops.
- causi 5y agoI'm really hoping they come out with an option for a touchpad with separate mouse buttons. I've always found clickpads unusable.
- frereubu 5y agoIt seems like there are a lot of people here who change their laptop almost every year or two. Is that common? I ask because I'm still using my mid-2014 MBP, and it's only really this year that it's started feeling underpowered with the fans running quite a bit. Apple laptops are expensive for sure, but compared to upgrading every year it seems like a good deal, not to mention the problem of electronic waste. (I'm not looking for an Apple / PC fight by the way, just haven't heard of people upgrading so regularly before).
- DoingIsLearning 5y agoChecking in with a 2012 Toshiba Satellite R830 still ticking. Only had to replace the battery pack about 4 years ago. Takes me 30 seconds to boot up and 4 seconds to shutdown running Debian since forever. Does what I want and gets out of the way. Never really felt anything missing performance wise.
- davidw 5y agoI have to use a Mac for work rather than Ubuntu, which I have dialed with everything just the way I want it, and it is so frustrating. It drives me batty on a daily basis.
- einpoklum 5y ago> it's no thick-as-a-brick throwback the size of a 2005 Thinkpad – it's approximately the same dimensions as a MacBook. So, it's a bad laptop in my book (pun not intended). You see, a laptop needs a good keyboard; and a good keyboard needs height for the keys to travel. So, a laptop needs to be kind of "think as a brick". Maybe not at 2005 levels, but definitely at 2010 levels and no thinner. However - a laptop which is reasonably easy to disassemble, and hence customize, is definitely something I support in principle. I'm not sure this can catch on if it's essentially a single-vendor thing.
- devmor 5y agoHave you tried one? I have one and it has the nicest laptop keyboard I've ever used.
- Johnny555 5y agoWhat are the long term prospects for this company? I'd like to have a repairable/upgradable laptop, but if they go out of business in a year, it's not much of an improvement over a Macbook... granted, it'd be some improvement since I could replace/upgrade commodity components like RAM or the hard drive but if the motherboard or display fails, I have to buy a new laptop.
- OJFord 5y agoNot great if we all think like that and 'wait to see'! It's still better though, a lot of it is standardised stuff - you don't need Framework to exist to be able still to replace your M2 SSD, WiFi, DDR4 RAM.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- kjaftaedi 5y agoSeems like what they have is in high demand and they only have an ANSI keyboard, which is only really used by the US and China (and people that don't mind limitations) Once they offer an ISO keyboard layout, you would expect demand to be even higher.
- nrp 5y agoIn progress!
- luckystarr 5y agoAny (non binding) ETA? :)
- kzrdude 5y agoI'm not sure the keyboard layout would stop me. I'd order a US layout one if I could (to a European country)
- leeoniya 5y ago> From now on, I can easily see myself upgrading the CPU or the screen on an annual basis how feasible is this, given that sockets and chipsets change every 2 years? also, the ultra low voltage / TDP parts are rarely available for purchase by end users.
- zerocrates 5y agoThe theoretical process of upgrading the CPU on the Framework is buying a new motherboard from them, so sockets (there aren't really socketed mobile CPUs anyway) and chipsets changing wouldn't be a problem. How often they'll actually have new options, how much they'll cost, and how long they'll stick to the compatible form factor from these initial units are definite question marks that will only become clear over time. For Framework themselves, assuming they survive long enough for it to be a problem, the balance between new customers and entirely new machines and upgrades (and what that looks like in terms of margins) will presumably be a potential challenge, also.
- devmor 5y agoI got one of the first waves, it's awesome. My only complaint so far is getting the fingerprint sensor to function properly in Linux - but that may be more of an issue with fprintd/libfprint than anything. I'm dual booting Win10 and Debian, and absolutely no issues under Windows so far either. The battery life is great, the screen is extremely crisp and bright, and the keyboard actually feels decent to type on.
- joombaga 5y agoThe fingerprint reader does work in Linux after compiling newer versions of fprintd and libfprint. I'm using it in GDM and for sudo.
- someguydave 5y agoI just want a laptop that has ECC ram
- infogulch 5y agoOh that would be great. Never going to get that from Intel though -- didn't you know that only big enterprises with lots of cash are interested in having ~~reliable hardware~~ECC?! /s
- thebruce87m 5y agoAm I missing the keyboard options? The $ instead of £ is an annoyance but I can’t handle the tiny enter key.
- yupper32 5y agoI used to like being able to control everything about my machine. I'd spend hours hacking away at making my Linux distro just the way I'd like it, and fixing things when they broke, figuring out drivers and oddities. This laptop seems to have the same culture. Now I just buy a MacBook and the concept of "things breaking" and "having to fix my computer" just isn't a thing anymore.
- christophilus 5y agoI bought a Dell and put Fedora on it, and it’s been as stable (maybe more) as my Macs. You don’t have to tinker with Linux too much these days to get a decent experience.
- throwawaysea 5y agoI would love to see Framework become successful and then also enter the phone space. We need a highly polished but open phone platform that isn't a walled garden under control of a tech giant.
- danhor 5y agoI don't understand the paragraph about the dock. Both laptops use usb-c, there shouldn't be a reason the 60$ dock doesn't work.
- taylodl 5y agoI hope this starts a trend! For the past 25 years that I've been building machines I've never upgraded the processor or motherboard - but I've added memory, added more storage or replaced a power supply. This fills that need just fine! Ultimately it supports up to 64 GB of RAM and 8 TB of storage! This is a machine that could last for years! Imagine now if we start standardizing on a laptop chassis, laptop motherboards, laptop keyboards, and laptop displays! We could have a builder's market just like we do today for desktops! Honestly, this is one of the best new ideas I've seen in a long time! P.S. Imagine ten years from now - we may be doing the same thing with phones! Oh yeah, I really hope this idea takes off!
- a-dub 5y agothis was always the promise of the beige towers of the 90s: upgradability! repairability! in practice, it seemed that all components were moving fast enough that upgrades maybe extended the life of something by a year or two at best, but ultimately all standards were constantly moving (buses, ram, cpu sockets/chipsets, storage, cases and even psus). compatibility between parts was often a crapshoot, reliability suffered because they weren't burn in tested together and at the end of the day, any major upgrade involved having to replace 90% of the components anyhow. the fully integrated systems seemed to have longer operational lifetimes, to be honest. that said, maybe things are moving slower now, but it seems like a bit of a fetishization of a past that wasn't that great to begin with. the focus on reducing waste is good, but honestly what is more modular here than your average laptop with memory and storage doors?
- BoysenberryPi 5y agoI really really want this laptop but my work has become increasingly GPU dependent. Hopefully they release a model with a lightweight GPU.
- TremendousJudge 5y agoYes, this is exactly my view too. I need this in my life but it just doesn't fit my workload
- recov 5y agoSame here, also waiting for AMD
- aeyes 5y agoThe laptop being modular, can another company sell a keyboard for it or would that infringe a trademark / void the warranty?
- agumonkey 5y agoKudos to them. I envisionned that years ago but never got anywhere close.
- destitude 5y agoAnnoys the crap out of me that Apple tries to claim how "environmentally friendly" they are and yet the biggest problem is they make all their computers be disposable and extremely difficult to repair. They've gone out of their way to do this by soldering in memory and SSD, gluing batteries in, etc. Shame on them.
- destitude 5y agoI remember the days when you could actually EASILY replace your portables battery (after 3+ years), EASILY upgrade your ram and HD.. now if any of that fails or the system needs more memory then you have you have to replace the entire computer. I'm sure this is by design so you spend more money and buy new stuff instead of upgrading what you already have.
- jjoonathan 5y agoYeah, Apple was really good at replaceable batteries, keyboards, hard drives, RAM, and wireless cards... right up until they decided they didn't want to be. IIRC it was sometime around when they started calling PowerBooks MacBooks... 2006 or thereabouts.
- krrrh 5y agoPutting upgradeability aside, Macs typically have longer usable lifespans as evinced by their relatively high resale value. Anecdotally, it's common to find 5-7 year old MacBooks being used by their original owners (I'm typing on one right now), and Apple will offer around ⅓ of the original value on a 5 year old machine as a no hassle trade-in because their refurb partners are able to sell them (you can usually get more selling privately). It would be nice to see some objective stats on this though.
- NotPractical 5y agoThe design of the MacBook Pro changed in 2016, and it became less repairable and easier to break (see: issues with butterfly keyboards). It would be difficult to convince me to buy a used old 2016+ MacBook Pro.
- sandbx 5y agoWe bought a fairphone 1 and it was total trash and now I feel burned by this type of product. Maybe once it matures...
- lrvick 5y agoI am excited to see a company pursue user repairable hardware. As a security and privacy researcher I care more about being able to trust the computer when it is powered on and in use. That means user controllable firmware, and the Librem 14 has no equal in this regard. It is a real shame I have to choose. I hope these companies will shamelessly trade ideas or merge. A Framework laptop style hardware with a neutered ME and Heads firmware would not only take my money, but become my top recommendation for all of the companies I provide security advice for.
- noasaservice 5y ago> Can I use a different Operating System? > Base and Performance configurations ship with Windows 10 Home pre-installed and Professional ships with Windows 10 Pro pre-installed. You can also load your own operating system later, like a Linux distribution. So... Forced windows tax, even when Dell can manage for Linux. Yuck. Like, really yuck. And for the specs: > Base $999.00 > i5-1135G7 | 8GB Memory | 256GB Storage | WiFi 6 | Windows 10 Home 8 gigs of ram? Well, I guess that's 1 chrome or firefox window open, and an electron app. And .25TB ssd? That's great for a machine 8 years ago. I'll stick with Dell's Business line. They're rugged, parts are serialized and easy to order/obtain. Pass on the "Framework".
- rgrmrts 5y agoIf you get a DIY version you don’t pay the windows tax. You can also install your own cheaper ram and toss in 64gigs. Assembly took me about 5 minutes.
- idoubtit 5y agoThe article contains a link to the page where one can customize a Framework order https://frame.work/laptop-diy-edition https://frame.work/laptop-diy-edition The problem with this page is that I can't see which component is selected, even after I click on them. Zooming in, I see that selection means coloring the thin border in red. About 8% of male adults have at least a minor trouble with colors, usually green and red, so that UI is annoying/unusable for many people. I hope their computers are better thought out. tl;dr Framework's shopping site is broken in case of light color blindness.
- readflaggedcomm 5y agoIt's a 2px border, so I guess that only really works with lower-resolution screens, anyway. It probably should have been specified with a unit like `rem` instead, (the background should also stay different instead of only on transition).
- monkeydust 5y agoPretty happen with my X1 Carbon but once I am not this is definitely the next laptop I will get.
- bigpeopleareold 5y agoI like what they are doing, but I am sticking with my 2 primary thinkpads for now, which is fine as well and certainly eco :) They are still a perfect level of repairability (t430s and a t470p) even if I can't upgrade the CPUs on them. I am excited over seeing this project, but these things have stuck out for me: 1. I am concerned over long-term screen hinge strength. I can't see the build on it, but I will not cheap out on that after dealing with bad hinges (screwed into plastic, not a metal frame on a Dell) 2. I am concerned over the durability of the screen. I am not an expert at this, but I have no worry over the screen if I chuck it in a bag or my cats who sometimes stand on the top of the laptop when I put it on the floor. 3. I watched Louis Rossmann's takes on it - I was hoping he would go into the tactile feel of the keyboard. I can wait though for any commentary on that from a ThinkPad user. I can try to stop using the TrackPoint (would hate unlearning that) but a good laptop keyboard is essential. (I declare the best laptop keyboard I ever experienced is the one I have on my t430s. Lenovo has made the key travel lower and lower over the years. The t470p and others around that year I used is OK, but doesn't compare really.) If anything were to go wrong though, hey, I can at least repair it :D But, I continue to stare in wonder over this. I'd love to be proven otherwise on these points.
- cassepipe 5y agoThe case/hinges has always been the first thing to fall apart in all my passed laptops. This is the third and the plastic case is showing age. The other two are still running well but they can't be moved around at all no more. Basically I want something as tough as an Apple Macbook but without Apple crap on it (I need Linux). My next laptop will have the best case and hinges or there won't be another one. I can't stand seeing perfectly runnning old machines made unusable because cheap assembly.
- jbotz 5y agoI've been using a Thinkpad T470 for the past 2 years, and the hinges are really solid... they look like they'll last many more years. I had a couple of T400s before which basically disintegrated around the hinges, so I know whereof you speak, but at least this series of Thinkpads don't seem to suffer from that problem... looks like they learned their lesson.
- londgine 5y ago> Another caveat. I really miss my Thinkpad Trackpoint (the little nub in the middle of the keyboard) and the three hardware mouse buttons on the trackpad. I'm finding it really hard to reliably hit the right region on my trackpad to get the left-, center- and middle-buttons. Yes! This is one of the main reasons that I will stick with Thinkpads. there are times that I have a mouse plugged in, but still use the track point since I then don't have to move my hand. I hope that they will add a track point to their laptop.
- sydney6 5y agoI think the question here isn't "is this a good laptop?", but rather "is this business model sustainable for the company?". I truly hope so..
- n8ta 5y agoFirst exciting laptop I've seen in a very long time! Would love to see ethernet (if it's even possible with this thinness) and a regular SD port.
- simon_weber 5y agoAn ethernet card is in the works: https://twitter.com/frameworkputer/status/1395946295588622336 https://twitter.com/frameworkputer/status/139594629558862233.... It looks like full-sized SD was popular in that poll too.
- pmlnr 5y agoThere's also the MNT Reform in cooking: https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt/reform https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt/reform Regarding ports on the Framework: is there really no ethernet option? And no full side SD card, just micro?
- efficax 5y agofor ethernet you'll want to get a usb-c dongle right now, sadly. But the expansion cards look like they could support an ethernet NIC. It just has to be made. If framework is successful, I expect we'll see more expansion cards.
- downWidOutaFite 5y agoI was annoyed by how their website hides key laptop specs, like the screen and battery. Felt shady and made me wary.
- gigatexal 5y agoIf this is truly popular to change the industry then even big players like Apple will adapt. My bet is that it’s super popular in the niche that is the HN audience but not much more.
- mdoms 5y ago> We haven’t opened ordering in your region yet, but we’re looking forward to getting there! We can notify you when ordering opens: Ok. You know who has "opened ordering" in my region? Every other laptop vendor.
- ericls 5y agoI kinda want to buy their stock more than their laptop at this point. (Not in need of a new laptop)
- sroussey 5y agoIs there any word on battery life? I can not find actual dimensions either…
- comeonseriously 5y agoThese look really good. I'll be in the market for a new linux laptop in a couple months and I really want to give System 76 my money because I like what they're doing, but this looks really good.
- redconfetti 5y agoI was looking at System 76, but after reading some reviews it left me worried.
- comeonseriously 5y agoOh? How so? I've not seen anything that worried me. I'm curious what you found, if you don't mind.
- chias 5y agoI bought one the same day I heard about it via one of Andrew Gallant's Twitter threads [1]. With the exception of the screen (I promised myself my next laptop would be 15" instead of 13"), this is pretty much exactly what I've always wanted in a laptop, and I'm very excited for my October ship date. [1] https://twitter.com/burntsushi5/status/1433823144649842694 https://twitter.com/burntsushi5/status/1433823144649842694
- javajosh 5y agoYeah I saw Louis Rossman unbox one and immediately got on the waiting list. My 2013 MBPr is finally going to retire!
- stewbrew 5y agoSo you can configure your notebook as you would like to have it but you cannot select a non-US keyboard layout?
- BiteCode_dev 5y agoGive them time, they are just getting started.
- ixwt 5y agoYet, they haven't released them yet.
- guru4consulting 5y agoImagine doing this at a large scale for the whole industry.. TVs, mobile phones, dishwashers, microwaves.. helps consumers and our planet environment too
- dewiz 5y agoIs it Windows 11 compatible (serious question) ? Edit: yes - https://community.frame.work/t/windows-11/2451 https://community.frame.work/t/windows-11/2451
- tastyfreeze 5y agoThat is without a doubt the best laptop customizing process I have ever gone through. Finally a manufacturer that is offering a more "desktop" build experience in a laptop form factor. Framework will be my first choice when I need a new laptop.
- SeanLuke 5y agoWait, wait, wait. The Framework is supposed to be entirely customizable. Except I have to buy Windows 10 Home, which has an OEM cost of, what, about $100? And I have to have the little Windows icon on my keyboard. This alone gets me thinking about other options.
- throwawaycuriou 5y agoYou want the DIY edition.
- SeanLuke 5y agoMy bad! I thought I had selected it.
- daemonk 5y agoI think this is cool. But at some point in my career/life in the tech space, I stopped caring as much about my tools as long as it works to a reasonable degree. I am fine with whatever Dell/Apple/Asus/etc laptop that's out there. Will my productivity increase if I switch to Framework? Maybe? I am not sure how to convince people like me. Obviously, I am not the target audience for this. I wonder what is their addressable market?
- Fordec 5y agoI'm not in the market for a laptop right now, but the next time around two years from now, if there's an AMD variant with dedicated GPU that I can have two HDMI ports for my external screens they will have a sale from me.
- davidy123 5y agoI think Framework is great, I'll consider one when they offer a good trackpoint, but Doctorow's description of Thinkpads is…. weird. Like, a heavy X1 Carbon? Replaceable drives that don't go to 2TB? Other generalizations that just don't make sense. I've been using Thinkpads for a couple decades now, in some ways the quality has wavered (partially due to contemporary concessions like compromises to be thinner) but they are still in general the best mainstream systems to run Linux with end user and field support. I've installed Ubuntu on every system, especially in the last years it has "just worked," and Lenovo even increasing offers Ubuntu pre-installed on some models.
- clepto 5y agoI just got one of these last weekend(I ordered it in early August) and so far it’s really great. The modular I/O and general mission of the company was what initially sold me on it, but now actually being hands on with it, I definitely feel secure in my decision to get one. I can’t overstate how good these modular ports are. I also really like that you can bring your own hardware in a lot of cases. For example I had an extra M.2 SSD laying around, so I ordered mine without one and installed it. You can also do this with the RAM, and even the wifi card. The only thing I’ve disliked about it so far is the arrow keys on the keyboard. Having full size keys for left and right but split keys for up and down feels weird, I would have preferred all full size arrow keys and a small right shift(because let’s be honest, when was the last time you used the right shift key?). For anyone curious about Linux on it, I’m running Arch and had basically 0 problems specific to the device. It’s my understanding there were some incompatibilities with certain kernel versions before so maybe some of these problems exist in distros like Debian with an older kernel, but I have had no issues. All in all, it’s just an exciting project and nice to see innovation in the space that isn’t just rounded corners or a sleeker edge or something where they take modularity or performance away for the sake of aesthetics.
- bavell 5y agoThanks for the report on Arch compatibility!
- clepto 5y agoMight be worth noting, I forgot about this when making my original comment, I wasn't able to get my USB drive for it to boot without disabling secure boot, but secure boot isn't something I care about so it wasn't a problem for me. I've heard it works but I can't comment on the specifics of it.
- the_benno 5y agoFor what it's worth, here are also [1] the Framework community forum thread about Arch and [2] the Arch wiki page about Framework in case you're interested. I'm still waiting for mine to arrive (in the next batch) but I plan to install Manjaro when it does, and am cautiously optimistic that it'll be mostly painless. [1] https://community.frame.work/t/arch-linux-on-the-framework-laptop/3843 https://community.frame.work/t/arch-linux-on-the-framework-l... [2] https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Framework_Laptop https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Framework_Laptop
- mickotron 5y agoOnce it is available for pre order in Australia, I am buying one.
- spaceisballer 5y agoI’m not in the market for a laptop in that price range, but if I was I would seriously consider it. I’ve had a Thinkpad X220 for some time now and done plenty of upgrades but changing out the lcd worries me too much to give it a shot and the second gen intel is starting to be a bit long in the tooth. However for basic computing I prefer my Pinebook Pro, it’s light and the screen is great.
- bambax 5y ago> I've bought a new Thinkpad almost every year since 2006 But why?? If the current one isn't broken, why would you need to buy a new laptop and go through the hassle of setting it up? My laptop is from 2013 and is still fine. Parts of my desktop computer are from 2007 -- the case is from 1993, and nothing is more recent than 2015, and everything is running super smooth. Getting an entire new machine every single year sounds hysterical. But maybe I don't know what I don't know.
- porb121 5y agoSometimes people describe their problems with some technology and it makes me realize that we live completely different lives. I can't imagine buying the same device year after year, whether that's a phone, laptop, or whatever.
- bink 5y agoNot only that but when they were using Macbooks they were apparently _buying two_ and keeping them in sync? I get some people can't be without a laptop for long periods of time but that seems absurd to me. Keep a backup disk. They even say they have a pile of old laptops that are presumably still usable.
- CitrusFruits 5y agoIf you read later on the author gives their rationale: "I started buying a new laptop every year as a reward to myself for quitting smoking. ... The environmental consequences of that system weren't lost on me, even given my very good track-record of re-homing my old computers with people who needed them."
- yobert 5y agoIf you read a little lower in the article he mentions it being a reward mechanism for stopping smoking. So each year he doesn't smoke, he rewards himself with a new laptop. Good strategy!
- bambax 5y ago
- heleninboodler 5y agoRandom feedback to framework on the configurator: it would be much nicer if all the options were just visible on one screen. Getting to the expansion slots page and not being able to remember how much base storage is in the configuration I chose means I have to go back two pages (and the page-loads are quite slow; hopefully that means you're doing great business?). Also, I'm sure limiting SKUs is a business decision, but it would be really nice to decouple CPU and RAM so I could choose an i5 with 32gb, for example.
- ThinkBeat 5y agoI would love to get one. The main thing that stops me is that this is only a clever idea as long as Framework is viable as a business. All the components here are proprietary to Framework (?) If they should go out of business, which often happens with these efforts, then you have no way to source parts and you are stuck. There really is not much customization they offer, at least not now. the expansion bays seem to be the major components now. Selectable when you buy the machine: CPU (non replaceable?) , WIFI, Storage, memory, power adapter yes/no, operating system yes / no Not configurable: (yet?) Screen, Camera, Fingerprint reader, battery. Hardware switch for camera, NA. A slight look back at laptops: Old style laptops / enterprise laptops: ---------------------------------------- Battery can be swapped by sliding a open a plastic lock. Swap batteries in seconds. Different sized batteries were available, some taking up more space giving your laptop a "bump". RAM was beneath a small hatch easily accessible from the bottom of the unit by removing two screws and direct access. Often the hard drive was accessible easily as well Two bays with no tool swappable, cd, extra storage/2nd hard drive, and some more exotic things. Then we had PCMCIA Card a long time ago. Most of my laptops had two bays. No tool swappable. Wide selection. Farmework ------------- Switching out the battery is far too complicated: https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Battery+Replacement+Guide/85?lang=en https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Battery+Replacement+Guide/85... >Be extremely careful when sliding the Battery connector out, >as it is very easy to accidently bend the pins. >Make sure to slide straight down, and avoid letting the >connector twist or bend. You should not have to perform surgery on the box switch the battery. It should not involve screws at all. With the placement of the battery in Framework,, it is hard to see how they can upgrade it based on size limits. Hopefully, they will offer an extension battery of some sort . Where is the space for the dvd/cdrom? (Some still use it. I love it for livecd, where the entire OS and file system is Read only. Every time you boot its clean. 4 user selectable expansions cards are unique and cool as long as they are available, and someone makes a wider assortment of them It is really cool that you can got at the guts and replace things and it is great that this is available. I would just want to do a lot of it a lot easier. Presumably, it become a h
- rsync 5y ago"Then we had PCMCIA Card a long time ago. Most of my laptops had two bays. No tool swappable. Wide selection." Even now, in 2021, PCMCIA/PCCARD remains my all-time favorite form-factor for add-ons, etc.
- vmarsy 5y ago> The little modular port attachments seemed like a novelty at first, but now it feels absurd that you'd buy a laptop with a bunch of "hardcoded" ports that you can't ever change That's funny I remember laptops from the 2000s with those swappable cards with different ports. One I distinctly remember because it was clever way to keep the card ~3mm thin were the Ethernet cards, where the Ethernet port was hidden inside and you'd press it to make it pop, similar to handleless kitchen cabinets. I found a picture of those on Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_Card https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_Card The framework expansion port seems to be a 2021 version of this, although I don't know how standardized these new ones are. EDIT: From the framework's configuration page: > > Will you be adding additional Expansion Card types? > Yes! We'll be adding new Expansion Cards over time, and we're also opening up the design to enable third parties and community members to create their own versions. We'll be making these available in the Framework Marketplace That's awesome, then in theory Ethernet expansion card could exist (and use similar design to the PC cards above, where the Ethernet port can be retractable)
- fnord77 5y agothose PCMCIA cards were very expensive.
- yepthatsreality 5y agoJust received mine this week and while I prefer a 15”, this first generation is a fantastic purchase. Love the 3:2 screen and Linux support! This has convinced me I need to invest time into KDE as well to help bring forward the fingerprint sensor into the UI.
- yepthatsreality 5y agoJust to touch back on this, the fingerprint reader works in the UI via PAM and CLI. It’s just not super UI-only user friendly. Here is the proposal for the fingerprint UI manager: https://invent.kde.org/plasma/plasma-desktop/-/merge_requests/149 https://invent.kde.org/plasma/plasma-desktop/-/merge_request... I believe but haven’t confirmed (and won’t) that Gnome may be ahead of the game here.
- yumraj 5y agoHas 13" become the default choice these days? I would love everything the same, but with a 15"-16" screen - if anyone from Framework is reading.
- kzrdude 5y agothese are 4:3 screens so certainly odd in current laptops
- ericls 5y agoThe screen size issue can be mitigated by using a better window manager
- yumraj 5y agoNot sure how, as it's not just a resolution issue, it's a screen size issue. I use laptop screen as my only screen and don't use an external monitor. So, for me, the size of the screen does matter and 13" is little small for my eyes. I'm sure if one uses external monitor most of the time, then 13" is more than sufficient.
- tathisit 5y agoNo
- mrfusion 5y agoDo they make a desktop too? Can it handle gaming like minecraft?
- mrfusion 5y agoThis is a small competitor right now but this is the definition of disruptive innovation and it should scare the cuss out of Apple. This is what people want.
- oblio 5y agoThe general population absolutely does not care.
- mvexel 5y agoHas the Lenovo warranty really gotten worse? The author doesn't specify but speaks of the "incredible" warranty on the Thinkpads in the past tense. I purchased an X220 in 2011 with the 3 year next business day warranty plan and it was awesome the couple of times I had to use it. I recently purchased an X13 to replace it with the same warranty plan, assuming it would still be as good. Not true? (By the way, Kubuntu installed and ran almost without issues on this 2021 X13 out of the box. Only minor issue was with sleep / suspend but that ended up being a BIOS setting. Apparently there is a "Windows" and a "Linux" sleep state.)
- yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago> Apparently there is a "Windows" and a "Linux" sleep state IIRC, Linux uses an actual S3 suspend, where NT has moved to a low-power mode that never actually halts the processor - "always on sleep" or something?
- aagha 5y agoHave had multiple Thinkpads. Have a T450s and just got a Flex5 for one of my kids. I've used the warranty and it's fantastic.
- NotPractical 5y agoThe baseline, preassembled model starts at $1000. Windows 10 Home, quad-core i5, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB storage, a nice 2256x1504 display, thin and light (1.3kg, 11.7" x 9" x 0.6"). Compare that to your other thin and light options at this pricepoint. XPS 13, $1020 * i5 * 8 GB RAM * 256 GB storage * 1920 x 1200 display * 1.2 kg, 11.6" x 7.8" x 0.6" MacBook Pro: $1300 * M1 * 8 GB RAM * 256 GB storage * 2560 x 1600 display * 1.4kg, 12" x 8.7" x 0.6" It's almost a no-brainer, even without considering the repairability, unless you like macOS. Unfortunately, not many people see repairability as a feature yet due to the toxic status quo, but this could change. I think that after brand recognition is established, this laptop could legitimately be competitive in the laptop market, and not just appeal to hardcore techies.
- thinkingemote 5y agoEarly adopters, hardcore techies may love repairability but they will buy whatever comes out next. What counts is the majority of buyers after these techies. It's similar the early buyers of a Tesla who could say "ahh it will be so eco I don't have to buy another car for 10 years" and, 3 years later they buy themselves the new model as they would have normally do with a combustion engine car. Consumers first. The key point is that repairability is important and is a marketing ploy but isn't a real fundamental issue for wealthy techies. They will just get another laptop in a year or so. It's the non techies that are important, not us! It's the majority and long tail, not the early adopters that this laptop should be for!
- mjhagen 5y agoIt's techies that advice their non-techie friends and family though.
- TeMPOraL 5y ago> It's the majority and long tail, not the early adopters that this laptop should be for! Why? This is the way we end up having only mass-market, lowest-common-denominator products. Not fighting to get quality tooling for our niche is one of the important reasons we don't get any.
- 5y ago
- godot 5y agoThis got me curious, I feel like if any laptop could allowed for a customized keyboard layout, it would be this one. I'm really yearning for a modern laptop with a keyboard layout that doesn't seem to exist anymore in modern keyboards, something like this [1], where there is a set of 6 nav keys at the upper right corner and a set of full size arrow keys at the lower right corner. If the Framework laptop has an option for a customized keyboard with that layout, I'll literally instantly buy it without even considering other specs. 1: https://koboguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/1pDN_eHnop3QdkRbjkxRSFQ.jpg https://koboguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/1pDN_eHnop3...
- kryptn 5y agoThis was my first thought as well, I'd love to see an ortholinear keyboard, and ideally one I could config with QMK. Not sure how likely or easy either would be though.
- xarope 5y agoI always felt the last good keyboard on a laptop was the one on the thinkpad x220. I wish someone manufacturer would pick that up.
- fnord77 5y ago400 nit screen is pretty dim these days
- canadian_tired 5y agoThis is a great leap ahead, and makes me happy. But I would also like to do a shoutout to a local-to-me company that has been around for decades and have always had a decent amount of modularity. https://eurocom.com/ec/main()ec https://eurocom.com/ec/main()ec. They have always went the way of more power over smaller size.
- KingMachiavelli 5y agoGiven that the expansion ports are just USB C ports, the real innovation (one of them) is making an integrated dongles. The only issue I see is that the adapters are a big too large but also a bit too small; the adapters are large enough that there are only 4 but also small enough that making a 2x USB A adapter would be quite challenging. I think the idea could be expanded upon. Dongles that extend beyond the chassis such that they protrude a bit but make a flush contact with the laptop chassis. This would let you basically turn a typical USB dock into a permanent extension. Perhaps instead of having an two expansion ports on each side, each side of the computer including the front & back would have one larger port. I don't think having two USB C ports does anything to increase overall bandwidth available since it's probably all shared anyway. Also once Thunderbolt 4 and USB 4 are available it should make creating standardized expansion adapters a lot easier since you won't have to worry about an adapter needing Thunderbolt on an AMD system.
- minsc__and__boo 5y ago>the adapters are large enough that there are only 4 but also small enough that making a 2x USB A adapter would be quite challenging. This was my thought as well, but they're planning on doing more interfaces than what they're listing now, so it may be they went for universibility with the size. Also USB-A is going to slowly die off anyways, so I doubt it's good to build the dongle standard to two USB-As.
- amiantos 5y agoThis is kind of a weird piece that really doesn't mean anything at all. I understand being in the "honeymoon phase" with a new piece of technology, but I don't feel like Cory is aware that he's doing that here. But there's some signs: He loved Thinkpads originally, but over the course of several years the company and the quality of the product went down the tubes. Now he's got a brand new laptop that he's only had for one month and is declaring it the best thing ever since sliced bread. But it's not really a fair comparison, a brand new niche product that hasn't been battled tested in any way versus a long-term established brand that he used for years. What will the Framework be like in many years? He offers extremely optimistic ideas, but obviously nothing concrete, because he just got the laptop. I dunno, it just felt weird to me to be like "I loved this product I used for years, but it sucks now" and then say "I love this new product I've barely used!" without a hint of self-awareness that all the optimism and initial love for a product in the world won't keep it from turning into a pile of junk. How long until a "I went back to Thinkpads" article? A year, two, three?
- leephillips 5y agoI did think it odd that he was talking about the durability of a product that he'd barely unwrapped. But his other points seem cogent, and are orthogonal to how long he's used any of the products.
- ncallaway 5y agoI don’t think he really talks about the durability, as much as the repairability. For example, he notes that he hasn’t road tested it yet: > However! Most of my use of this computer was from my sofa, while I was recovering from hip-replacement surgery. I haven't road-tested it at all. > But I'll note here that if it turned out that a component failed due to my usual rough handling, I could replace it with a standard part in a matter of minutes, myself, in whatever hotel room I happened to be perching in, using a single screwdriver. That reads to me as a pretty specific disclaimer and that he hasn’t stressed the durability, but more that he has a plan if it isn’t as durable. (Though it’s a long article, and maybe he said something about durability that I missed)
- 1970-01-01 5y agoA good video about it is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rkTgPt3M4k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rkTgPt3M4k
- calebm 5y agoThis sounds like the ultimate hacker laptop.
- ecpottinger 5y agoSorry, I was disappointed. No PIO port, no high speed serial port (and before you suggest USB<>Serial that means another external interface). Also maybe it is for the future but somehow I missed seeing any Ethernet ports either. Also, is there a base dongle that we can add our own hardware/software too? Just having a dongle with a onboard programmable Arduino which can be programmed by the user would help a lot.
- tofuahdude 5y agoAfter hearing all the positive reviews, I finally went and spec'd one out. The bang for the buck is pretty amazing! Hmm. Framework vs M1 16" (if they ever get released).
- timmit 5y agoLooks like a really good laptop hardware. It would be great if the windows is not pre-installed, and let Linux lovers have the opportunity to opt-out and get dollars back (the windows os license fee)
- twelfthnight 5y agoThat is a possible configuration [1]. You can choose None for operating system and save 139$. [1] https://frame.work/products/laptop-diy-edition/configuration/edit https://frame.work/products/laptop-diy-edition/configuration...
- MMS21 5y agoCheck out the DIY Edition; it allows you to do exactly this but you have to install the storage, WiFi adapter and RAM yourself.
- LAC-Tech 5y agoI'm always surprised how quickly "hacker" news is to promote apple hardware and tear down anything linux related. Any thread about linux or a linux machine turns into this. People promoting macs. The hacker culture really has changed a lot in the past 10 years.
- henearkr 5y agoI'd really love a version of the Framework with buffed up graphic cards, such as a RTX or equiv. That would place them above System76 in my ranking, and it is the only criterion stopping my hand to purchase one right now...
- m1117 5y agoFrom the mission: "products that give you back the power to customize" and shipped w/Windows pre-installed.
- Swenrekcah 5y agoYou can choose no Windows, or pay a bunch of extra money and get Windows.
- tikhonj 5y agoYou can order the "DIY Edition" without an OS pre-installed, as well as a lot of other customization. https://frame.work/products/laptop-diy-edition/configuration/edit https://frame.work/products/laptop-diy-edition/configuration...
- joering2 5y agoVery exciting. Their site allowed me to configure mine with 54 HDMI ports. Will this come in some sort of octopus cable one USB-C split to 54 HDMIs? Can't wait to find out!
- ZeroGravitas 5y agoOoh. They've definately got a sale if an ortholinear keyboard variant with thumbkeys is an option. I wonder if they'll do ARM variants?
- saltmeister 5y agoyea Linus already said it
- mtreis86 5y agoHow does the keyboard compare to older Lenovos, specifically the x220?
- mastazi 5y agoI would like to purchase an i5 with 16GB RAM and 1TB storage, am I missing something? https://frame.work/products/laptop/configuration/edit https://frame.work/products/laptop/configuration/edit
- cush 5y agoIt seems like there's so much potential here for a third-party module market. I wonder how much flexibility these modules provide. Like, could I create a hifi sound card/DAC? I'll definitely be a buyer when they support AMD!
- major--neither 5y agohow's the keyboard?
- jiggliemon 5y agoThis guy must be James Bond. I’ve had my 2013 MacBook Pro since it came out and I never needed service on it. My 2016 MacBook Pro, no service. 2020 MacBook Pro, no service. I like that this company is making completely replaceable parts though. The idea of being able to upgrade ram again sounds like a real benefit… it’s embarrassing that sentence even has to be muttered.
- pedalpete 5y agoI'm pretty excited about this, but I do wish they had made a design that wasn't an Apple clone. I don't want people to look at my computer and mistake it as a clone/copy. I feel it's a missed opportunity for them to say "look, there's a better way".
- Sebb767 5y agoI find it kind of strange that they don't have a dual-usb c card. There seems to be more than enough space and putting two usb c ports on a single card would allow to carry a wider variety of cards without loosing out on standard ports. Is this possibly because of charging? It seems like such an easy and obvious thing to do.
- preinheimer 5y agoI wonder if there's bandwidth constraints under the hood.
- MayorMonty 5y agoFrom what I read, it was because they couldn't fit the charging circuitry for both into the dongle. Better to not deal with the confusion of one not charging
- kzrdude 5y agoUnfortunate. What about a dual USB-A one though?
- markenqualitaet 5y agoThe specs are open. Whatever is possible will happen. There are also people working on microcontroller cards and such niche things.
- kelnos 5y agoMaybe the chipset only supports allows up to four USB-C ports? Seems like USB-C hubs are few and far between (I finally snagged one last summer after looking for over a year), so maybe hub chipsets are hard to come by and difficult to design around?
- nightowl_games 5y agoI can't help but feel as though the people who agree with Apple's (and many copy cats) insistence on USB-C only and refusal to put a single USB A or HDMI port in the computer are simply out of touch. The only people I know who like it always cite the same thing: "docking stations". But if you had a laptop with 1 USB-C you could still use your docking station, but the _vast_ majority of users wouldn't have the struggle to find/buy/maintain/pack up/not lose their USB-C to HDMI and USB-A dongle. Every non-hardcore laptop user I know _hates_ not having a HDMI port and having to use a tiny dongle to plug in their mouse. And the desk docking stations they have all suck. They end up using 4k monitors at 30hz because their docking station can't handle it. And _they don't notice_ because their accustomed to computers sucking. When I see a fat laptop with ports. I am happy. The framework wins for me because of repairability. But I know countless people will love the customizability of the ports.
- kelnos 5y agoI guess I just don't use my laptop the way you do. I have 3 USB-C ports (and a micro SD slot), and that's it. Right now I have a power cable plugged into one, and my USB-C Yubikey plugged into another. I'll very occasionally use a USB network interface, but it's USB-C. I've replaced any micro-USB to USB-A cables that I still need with micro-to-C cables (I even have a mini-to-C cable for a serial converter breakout board). I don't consider this replacement much of a waste, as I've mostly just replaced them when the cables wear out or break. I do have a USB-A wired mouse, but I only use that when I'm first-person gaming (not often, maybe 3-4 times a month). But for that I just have the A-to-C adapter permanently attached to the mouse, so it's not like I need to go find an adapter when I want to plug the mouse in. Only other thing is HDMI, but I keep one of those white Apple dongles I got with a work laptop in the drawer under my TV (I probably pull it out once every 6 months or so). I don't use an external monitor for the most part, but for that I have another dongle permanently attached to the cable plugged into the monitor, so, again, that's not an inconvenience. When I'm traveling, it's really nice that I only have to bring a single charger that charges both my laptop and phone. I'll usually also bring a Chromecast with me so I don't have to deal with cables at all if I want to watch something on a hotel/Airbnb TV. But that's pretty much all I need. I don't think I'm "out of touch", though I certainly allow for the truth that other people have different needs than I do.
- alerighi 5y agoWhat is the point of a modular IO if I cannot get an ethernet port? Or today only the old school people like me prefer to use a wired LAN connection whenever possible and hate using Wi-Fi that is unreliable and slower? I don't understand that choice, but to make the laptop thin, no, a Thinkpad T14 is thin (maybe not as a Macbook, but who cares about a couple of millimeters) and integrates a full size ethernet connector. What is the point of modular IO if the IO that you are giving me is just USB, HDMI and a micro (not even full size) SD card reader? I would expect to have a whole range of possible ports, for example I use a lot RS232 ports, I would have liked to find a module to add a serial port to my laptop.
- josephcsible 5y agoThere's no reason there couldn't be an Ethernet or RS232 port. It's just that there hasn't been one made yet. And don't forget that third parties are able to make them too.
- linuxhansl 5y agoI love the idea of the Framework and for my next laptop I will definitely check it out. One topic, though, that I just cannot let stand without comment is the notion that Thinkpads are bad now. I have a Thinkpad X1 Extreme (gen2) and - apart from the stupid name - it is hands down the best Linux Laptop I ever had. There simply is no "...secretive Nvidia graphics cards, strange BIOS rubbish...". At least with Fedora it just works (including rendering offload to the NVidia card if you want that.)
- Account123481-x 5y agoit runs windows how exciting can it be?
- foobarbecue 5y agoOk so who is making the keyboard for it with trackpoint and three buttons? Take my money please...
- chrismartin 5y agoNo axe to grind here, but this article contains a lot of misinformed, over-generalizing FUD about modern Thinkpads. It sounds like Cory's experience was with the X series: these Thinkpads are the thinnest, lightest, and most difficult to service. For a small thickness and weight penalty, the T series are much easier to repair, upgrade, and maintain. My T450s (bought new in 2015) and T480 (bought new last year) both have an easy keyboard swap and Intel graphics (not a proprietary Nvidia GPU). Cory implies that Thinkpads still need a proprietary dock, but any USB-C-enabled Thinkpad (i.e. any Thinkpad made in the past few years) can use any cheap USB-C dock out there. Nearly every component on the T series is as easy to upgrade or replace as the Framework claims to be. I've swapped my RAM, storage, display panel, and battery. The T480 and older external battery are even more serviceable than the Framework's: just pull 2 tabs and it slides out.
- crowbahr 5y agoKeep in mind that's only true for the T series. P series ThinkPads (like the P52 albatross round my neck) are a pain in the ass, unserviceable and finnicky to even install Linux on because of the Nvidia GPU you mentioned. Don't touch a Thinkpad unless it's a T series. But a T series ThinkPads will also not be any sleek form factor that most people would want either.
- rafaelturk 5y agoNow we just need a decent OS to run on this baby...
- howinteresting 5y agoI would presume that Pop OS works great on it, being based on Ubuntu and all.
- kraig911 5y agoIf it had a 16 inch version I'd buy one now. I just want a linux with premiere linux support. Granted the system 76 one is pretty good too. I don't give a crap about the ports. I USB-C all the things. I moved on.
- unnouinceput 5y agoIt has Intel only, I wish they'd add AMD as well. I was an Intel fan but with their IME and Spectre/Meltdown flurry of problems I've ditched them. Now my household is all Ryzen.
- TanjB 5y agoMemory fail. No ECC, uses DDR4 instead of LPDDR4x (which has a 1-bit ECC and superior bandwidth) which the Tiger Lake CPUs would support.
- someguydave 5y agoagree i want real ecc ram
- tomtung 5y agoI really hope they also do gaming laptops with Nvidia GPUs. I'd buy one in a heartbeat.
- didip 5y agoToo bad they don’t offer larger size. My wrists hurt big time typing on small laptops.
- owly 5y agoAnyone running Fedora 34 on Framework who would be willing to share their experience?
- dorfsmay 5y agoIf only you could change the pointing mechanism for a trackpoint... I definitely would have been one of their first customer.
- ssss11 5y agoWhich linuxes work well with it? Anyone from framework here to provide an ETA on int’l availability timeframe? (Specifically Australia!)
- teruakohatu 5y agoI would love one here in New Zealand but unless they partner with someone locally, it seems risky to buy a laptop that requires spare parts to be shipped over from the USA if there is a problem. Especially with how bad global shipping is. They have a sign up form where you can be notified when it is available in your country. Right now only USA AND Canada.
- victor9000 5y agoUbuntu 21.04 works out of the box, and the main issues with older distros are mostly due to missing drivers. See details below. https://frame.work/blog/linux-on-the-framework-laptop https://frame.work/blog/linux-on-the-framework-laptop
- lisper 5y agoI was this close to ordering one but then I noticed that you can’t get one without windows preinstalled. :-(
- clajiness 5y agoYes, you can. Check out the "Framework Laptop DIY Edition". You can select to have it built without an OS.
- zerocrates 5y agoThough it's worth noting that when you do this you also don't have the SSD, RAM, or WiFi modules installed either. Though on the plus side you can choose not to buy those components from Framework and just supply your own, if you want. I bought the DIY edition for a combination of wanting to bring my own components and not pay for Windows, and generally liking a little bit of tinkering. Installing the stupid little WiFi module antenna connectors was the only annoying part.
- lisper 5y agoAh. I stand corrected. Thank you!
- victor9000 5y agoHere's an overview on the state of Linux support, and the community forums are also a great source if you want details on a specific distro. But basically Ubuntu 21.04 works out of the box, and I'm currently on 20.04 LTS, which required some minor work arounds. https://frame.work/blog/linux-on-the-framework-laptop https://frame.work/blog/linux-on-the-framework-laptop
- lisper 5y agoOh I knew there was good Linux support. I just thought that you couldn’t get it without windows preinstalled. But it turns out I was wrong about that.
- 5y ago
- huachimingo 5y agoIvan Illich smiles happily in his tomb. A "convivential PC" :)
- sharmin123 5y agoShopping Geek? Avoid Online Hack And Online Scammers: https://www.hackerslist.co/shopping-geek-avoid-online-hack-and-online-scammers/ https://www.hackerslist.co/shopping-geek-avoid-online-hack-a...
- xs83 5y agoThis should have been a thing a long time ago, I would take the plunge but a 13" laptop is not something I would enjoy working on, if they ever release an option for a ~16" frame and monitor I'd jump right in!
- wezm 5y ago> I can easily see myself upgrading the CPU or the screen on an annual basis, or packing in more RAM. This is the bit I'm most sceptical about. Time will tell if these sorts of upgrades are actually made available.
- jp0d 5y agoIt'd be interesting to see a model with ARM64 CPU as well! :)
- amilios 5y agoI wonder if this is a good hackintosh machine..
- ur-whale 5y agoNo Ryzen option. No 16 inch screen option. No numpad option. Pass.
- someperson 5y agoYour comment reminds me of that infamous iPod review from 2001: > No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame.
- ur-whale 5y agoI didn't say "lame" which would have been a general comment about the product. I said "pass" which simply means it doesn't work for me, for the 3 reasons I listed: - sub-par CPU - screen too small - keyboard missing key features
- aljgz 5y agoThere is an important value, implied by the repairability, that gets little attention here. When I went to Malaysia, My 7 years old Asus N550 was malfunctioning and I needed to get a new laptop. In my previous company I got a zenbook 13" and loved it, but the ones in Malaysia were only sold with 8GB ram. I've been using 16 for 7 years and there was no way to go back. I wanted 10th gen intel (For the improved integrated GPU) and my only options which sold 16GB were Dell xps (500$ more expensive) and Lenovo (1000$ more expensive), but the latter would arrive in 3 months. I got a Dell xps as my only option, and I hate it. One reason is that the specific cpu I got did not get the improved GPU (Intel's shady marketing and lack of transparency is to blame). Another reason is that the fingerprint reader has no drivers for Fedora, while Dell advertises the laptop as Linux ready. Now I need more ram for my new activities and I want to bump it to 32 but I cannot do that. Manufacturers tell us that they need to solder ram to MB to be able to give high performance for a thin and light form factor. Framework shows that this is not true. Also, see how Framework tries to be transparent and informative? It clearly tells you that the tiny performance improvement by i7-1185G7 over i7-1165G7 is not worth the 400$ difference for most people. I will get rid of this Dell Xps and get a Framework as soon as it's available in my area.
- dijit 5y agofor the little it's worth it's unlikely that you could have even upgraded to 32g. Most of the mobile intel chips have been limited to 16GiB max for quite a bit, only the very recent ones go to 32GiB
- aljgz 5y agoYou're right and this kinda reinforces my point: With Framework, I clearly know that it supports up to 64, even if right now I only need 16.
- kirbyfan64sos 5y ago> Another reason is that the fingerprint reader has no drivers for Fedora, while Dell advertises the laptop as Linux ready. Which XPS is it? I believe most of their fingerprint readers should be supported in recent libfprint versions.
- foxes 5y agoThe OP talks about how they are going to now only switch the cpu/ram/whatever every year. I feel a cpu is quite an expensive/resource intensive thing to make compared to a cheap plastic case. So while maybe not as bad as an entire device, it still seems pretty wasteful.
- kelnos 5y ago> I'm finding it really hard to reliably hit the right region on my trackpad to get the left-, center- and middle-buttons. I've drawn little hints on in sharpie, and I'm working with Canonical, who make Ubuntu, on remapping the button areas. Does the trackpad not support pressing anywhere with 1, 2, and 3 fingers for left, right, and middle click, respectively? I'm hoping that it's supported, but the author just doesn't want to use that kind of setup.
- atemerev 5y ago“We currently only take orders from US and Canada”. This makes me extremely sad.
- eecc 5y agoI understand the Thunderbolt hub is fundamental to the Framework concept, but I’m really let down by the lack of an AMD option. I’ve waited months for Lenovo to sort their supply-chain issues and I’m still quarreling with poor drivers but the Ryzen in this T14s I have is just embarrassingly capable.
- aagha 5y agoI've been waiting to get a T14 w/ 32GB or RAM AND a Ryzen 7 5000 series.
- rkagerer 5y agoFramework offers a 2TB SDD, while Lenovo has been stuck at 1TB drives for years and years What's stopping you from putting a bigger drive into a Lenovo?
- galkk 5y ago> giant, heavy Carbon X1 Carbon is about size and weight of Macbook air
- mclightning 5y agoah it is one of those projects that everyone gets excited about, but it dies out due to impractialities and economical factors
- beezischillin 5y agoIf and when they’ll come out with a 15 inch or above sized version that’s shipping in Europe and my MacBook Pro 2017 gets long in the tooth, I will be looking at a Framework instead. The replaceable port idea doesn’t factor into my use case - I’d rather have the 4 thunderbolts or a generous assortment of video output and usb ports plus a card reader, honestly. Everything else is really cool and exciting though! Thanks to Apple’s privacy bungles I’ve already turned iCloud enabled features and their convenient integration into a nice to have from a necessity and cancelled my subscription so I can switch any time to an alternative vendor and lose very little apart from the clipboard sync, wifi phone calls and airdrop. So I’m genuinely excited to switch to Linux when I need to.
- gorgoiler 5y agoGreat to see a newsletter signup. Email subscriptions are absolutely my favourite way of controllably staying in touch with the internet. Unfortunately the signup form is broken!
- rmason 5y agoJason Calacanis has an interview tonight with the founder of the Frame Work laptop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfVZhCTx6Tc&t=34s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfVZhCTx6Tc&t=34s (starts 13 minutes in) I checked out the site and found one problem with it. I had no way of knowing both the screen resolution and whether the hard drive it ships is SSD or not. It is a very intriguing idea though.
- dpatterbee 5y agoThe answer to both your queries are on this page. https://frame.work/laptop https://frame.work/laptop NVMe SSDs and 2256x1504
- rmason 5y agoThank you, looked all over and failed to find it.
- Al-Khwarizmi 5y agoNo trackpoint, so... hard pass. Glad that it works for other people though.
- qwerty456127 5y agoThis really is cool. I wish there would be an option for more than 4 ports but this is just a minor issue. If there was an option to get HDMI 2.1 rather than 2.0 it would also eliminate need for a separate DisplayPort.
- ernie24 5y agoHello from the Europe (PL). What are the odds of getting one of those if you live outside US/CA?
- phreeza 5y agoCan't wait for availability in Switzerland, really want to get one.
- skohan 5y agoSuper interesting product! Does anyone know if they have AMD processors on the roadmap? AFAIK they're beating the pants of Intel at the moment in terms of performance/W.
- numlock86 5y agoOnce they offer different keyboard layouts ("de" specifically) they'll get my order. I have not heard anything negative about them yet. Reading through HN comments makes me confident with my choice.
- bullen 5y agoI still use my X61s from 2008. Laptops are not an productive/ergonomic choice and if you have to replace it this often I would opt for a Raspberry 4 or Jetson Nano.
- mybrid 5y agoI've been using Linux Mint on Lenovo since 2011. I've never had a problem installing. The biggest ongoing issue is the Nvidia driver will crap out on some upgrades. Sometimes I can't display on external monitor, sometimes the sound won't go out the HDMI. Hint on all day laptop use: 1. External keyboard. I always use one even when travelling. There are many models like the JellyComb that will allow one to use the same keyboard with multiple laptops, just hit a button. 2. External mouse. If your hands aren't on the laptop then everything stays fresh on the laptop. Spill coffee on your cheap external keyboard or mouse? no problem just replace them. 3. I buy the 5 year onsite warranty for the $500 and it is great here in Maine. The come to the Starbucks and replace the keyboard or screen. 4. I use LVM snapshots and rsync my important files to a second disk and external disk daily/weekly. So I just wanted to pushback on the notion that Lenovo today is not viable with Linux Mint. I've never had a problem with the installer. I keep up with the upgrades and with major upgrades I install from Live ISO on USB each time and restore my important files from backup.
- aphrax 5y agoAs nice as it looks I’m not sure I could manage without a trackpoint.
- simonebrunozzi 5y agoWhy don't they ship the Framework with Ubuntu pre-installed, and let people save the Windows tax altogether?
- mfer 5y agoThere isn’t a large market for that. If you want to sell a repairable laptop to the masses you need the features they desire. Windows is one of those things, unfortunately.
- f1refly 5y agoYou can buy one without windows installed, but you'll have to install ubuntu yourself. I reckon it's not worth to pre-install one of the various GNU/Linux distributions since the average users of such a device will do a clean reinstall anyways. At least it's 200 bucks cheaper without windows, so theres that.
- beebeepka 5y agoModularity isn't enough to force me back into handing over money to the literal evil that is intel No AMD means no sale for this guy. Wasting money on Intel gear in 2021. I mean, why even bother
- Sunspark 5y agoTo the Framework laptop owners in the thread, I have a question about the power button light. In the image I saw, it seemed rather large (square) as it outlines the fingerprint reader and likely perceptually brighter as a result due to the greater area covered. Do you find it distracting to have it always on in the upper right of your keyboard?
- LightG 5y agoWebsite says "We're hiring" I bet you are! This look bad@ss.
- twilio20 5y agosmall business marketing strategies https://blubirdmarketing.com/ https://blubirdmarketing.com/
- emrah 5y agoLooks great! Two things that could make this laptop even more attractive are option for bigger screen (15" and/or 16") and support for AMD cpus
- aagha 5y agoIf they had an AMD Ryzen option I'd have bought one already.
- CogitoCogito 5y ago“ Mine was delivered at the end of Aug. I got it set up by the first of September and have been using it ever since. Yesterday, I put my 2019 Thinkpad on my pile of "laptops to refurbish and donate." I've bought a new Thinkpad almost every year since 2006. I think that's over.” I can’t really fathom why anyone would buy laptops at this rate. It seems so incredibly wasteful. The author is free to ship me his 2019 laptop. I will no problem putting it to good use.
- darzu 5y agoYour last two sentences contradict your first two. He says several times that he carefully donates his laptops.
- CogitoCogito 5y agoHonestly I have no idea what contradiction you're referring to. Regardless, his donating the laptops doesn't mean he needs to buy new ones. Why is he going through them so fast in the first place? If he really wants to give laptops away, why not just buy new laptops and give them to people? Or why not just take the money he would put to new laptops and donate the cash to people? Given his actions up until now, I would be willing to bet that he would just dump the Framework laptop and buy a new one (or another) whenever the first (replaceable) component fails. He seems like a paragon of waste of resources. I don't understand why he considers the Framework as necessary for him.
- bencollier49 5y agoThe sooner these guys open up shipping to the UK, the better. I would buy one of these right now.
- glenvdb 5y agoAnyone had experience using it as a gaming laptop? Maybe with an external GPU?
- keerthiko 5y agoI'm just surprised the Framework doesn't provide a customizable graphics card slot. Or offer a dock that can support an external desktop PCI GPU. It's a laptop for enthusiasts offering flexibility and repairability and future-proofing, and I think that overlaps with people who want to swap out GPUs and not rely solely on the CPU-integrated one. Perhaps they are waiting for USB-C pass-through GPU enclosures to become a thing.
- sagarm 5y agoA discrete GPU comes with thermal and power requirements that change the form factor for the entire laptop. It doesn't make sense to have the same chassis for the with and without GPU use cases.
- keerthiko 5y agoThat is why I suggested a compatible dock with eGPU capabilities. That they haven't considered any way to support it all (even if it's only in the future) is a bit baffling. Perhaps they will come out with an eGPU enclosure that can just be plugged into an existing swappable expansion bay, and won't need any special design changes? One can hope.
- alfor 5y agoEvery connector and moving part is a cost and failure point. There is a reason why everything is moving in the other direction. It’s going to be more expensive more bulky more flaky than the same components in a more integrated system.
- pxc 5y agoThere's so much I love about this laptop, but why is the keyboard layout so Mac-ish even though the aspect ratio is 3:2? This thing could have a much more traditional keyboard layout with that extra vertical apace.
- lostgame 5y agoIf I can hackintosh it; I’ll buy one this month.