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Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1
- 2Gkashmiri 5y agoI have had problems. I use this thing called keepa.com and it tells me when the prices of hard disks fall. So over the past year I had tried 4 times to buy and three times I didnt even get the order. So I was told "well because you didnt get it,we cant send a replacement so get a refund " the last time I bought a 5tb external disk and I got, I kid you not, a 500 GB internal hard drive that was patched with tape. When I complained, I was told to get a refund because, again, cannot send you a replacement. They really do not honor their prices if you get a good deal or a slip up.
- x0x0 5y agoMy shock here is that someone would order something that costs $7k from amazon! Buy that from BH, newegg, some specialty retailer, etc. Not American alibaba.
- redis_mlc 5y ago+1 BH. I've ordered entire palettes of camera gear, and every filter and end cap was accounted for.
- abhiminator 5y agoI'd argue the opposite -- why not order from Amazon? Lots of folks have come to trust Amazon's reliability and customer service over the years, so it does make sense for customers to order expensive things from Amazon or any other online store, especially with a pandemic going around. This incident in particular does seem to be an outlier, and we'll have to see how Amazon resolves it.
- x0x0 5y agoBecause Amazon has allowed their store to be filled with buyer-beware scams. Much of their electronics are knockoffs - good luck buying legit batteries, chargers, etc. You're shopping, with inventory commingling, from who knows who. Is the device actually new, or is it a refurb or return? Etc. For any substantially expensive device, they can also void the warranty by not being an authorized dealer. Or at least create a hassle for the person attempting to use that warranty.
- justahuman74 5y agoI trust amazon 1st party store shipping I do NOT trust the million other people selling things on amazon storefront hoping that you don't notice they're not actually amazon
- mszcz 5y agoDon't use Amazon all that much but from the comments here and in other articles that seem to pop up more often recently I figure now time has come for Amazon to finally milk that sweet sweet trust relationship. I've recently used newly opened Amazon.pl, first purchase and I had to wait +5 weeks for a small item. I'm not used to navigating the labyrinth of checking whether something is fulfilled by someone or whatever. I just had the displeasure of buying something from a dropshipper.
- chx 5y agoBecause Amazon co-mingles inventory from sellers by UPC. So if one crook ships in empty boxes and you buy from someone else you still can get shafted and the honest seller eats the costs.
- number6 5y agoThe one thing Amazon provides is trust and this is their main asset. All of their wares you can buy anywhere, buy on Amazon you have reviews and a third party (Amazon) who mediates. Now the big BUT. Amazon integrates every step and thus loses the mediation ability and they are losing the trust with fake reviews. Nowadays I research items on Amazon and search specialized shops to get them from and maybe get someone to chat with about the stuff I am going to buy. Because I can't trust the reviews on Amazon
- randycupertino 5y agoIt's not an outlier. I've ordered things from Amazon and gotten completely wrong things- like 1 latex glove in the box instead of the makeup I ordered. There are a lot of knockoff products on there, even benign things like birdfeeders are getting faked and sold: https://www.marketplace.org/2019/11/18/how-amazons-counterfeit-problem-reached-a-bird-feeder-manufacturer-in-rhode-island/ https://www.marketplace.org/2019/11/18/how-amazons-counterfe...
- petee 5y agoIrony is the bird feeder story originally came out before we knew amazon was using their market insight to steal and knockoff their own sellers products. Likely amazon was the one making the knockoffs.
- randycupertino 5y ago> before we knew amazon was using their market insight to steal and knockoff their own sellers products. Likely amazon was the one making the knockoffs. I have not heard that, but holy cow. Just so incredibly shady. For what it's worth, I bought that same birdfeeder directly from the manufacturer's own storefront on ebay (I've found ebay to be easier to find real sellers than Amazon and don't have to deal with figuring out who is doing the shipping etc) and it's awesome.
- petee 5y agoI stopped trusting amazon when they removed the ability to report product issues, like knockoffs or scams. Removing the links just affirmed they don't care whats in their marketplace, and they just backed that attitude up with their recent lawsuit claiming they're not responsible. I've even reported people who include the "$5 for a review", but they don't ever do anything about it. What trust have they earned except from a few people not complaining?
- totalZero 5y agoA specialty retailer is more likely to know exactly how to package the item to avoid damage. They are likely to have experience with delivery errors that are specific to that specialty product, and thus will be better able to rectify those errors. They may have better customer service, as is the case with B&H. Lastly, a dispute with a specialty retailer is unlikely to affect other services, like Prime Video or grocery delivery.
- dilyevsky 5y agoRecently i ordered something via newegg, after a week they canceled order bc seller didn’t ship, then next day it arrived in amazon box
- philliphaydon 5y agoI ordered via newegg, a NZXT case for my computer which was S$180, it seemed to be less than retail, and in Singapore it was $350 at the time. What was strange tho was other cases were listed for: S$2##.## Shipping... This 1 case was listed as free shipping. So I ordered it, was charged S$180, and 2 weeks later received a brand new, unopened, case, with glass panel all intact no issues.
- reikonomusha 5y agoI do not trust Amazon to ship anything safely and securely anymore. Almost everything I receive is damaged, late, or mis-delivered. Books are especially abused somewhere in Amazon’s fulfillment. (They’re always bent, creased, or dirty.) Items that are supposed to be 1-day shipping typically take >=3, and Amazon’s tracking mostly says “oops! it’ll come trust us”. (Not verbatim, obviously.) Amazon’s return process is becoming incrementally more obtuse as time goes on. While they’re still decently good, it’s getting harder to do easy, no-nonsense returns. Typically—if they don’t just tell me to dispose of the item myself—they demand I drive to Amazon lockers or Whole Foods or Kohl’s to drop stuff off at no charge, and pressure me into just getting Amazon credit. I would never buy a $7,000 item on Amazon under any circumstance.
- kevingadd 5y agoIt's genuinely astonishing how bad Amazon is at shipping books now. It used to be their Thing, and now basically any book you buy from them arrives damaged. You can complain and get them to send a replacement and the replacement is damaged too. In my experience Amazon Japan still knows how to pack books correctly, but I haven't ordered from them since the start of COVID... they properly secure books to a bit of backing cardboard (with shrink-wrap and/or rubber bands, usually) and then mount the backing cardboard inside of the packing box so that the books don't slide around and get damaged. I'm sure it costs like an extra 50 cents per package to do this, but presumably their customers demand quality in other countries where Amazon doesn't have a de-facto monopoly.
- chx 5y agoLet me emphasize something here: Amazon Japan ships globally. Not just books -- bags too. And that's big because the Japanese bag selection is truly something else. Alas, many are very expensive. However, since I didn't travel for more than a year now (guess why) I have shuffled the travel budget over to the bag budget and bought a bag from Amazon Japan. Here's the most important part, watch just thirty seconds: https://youtu.be/g6uSpuN2uT8?t=346 https://youtu.be/g6uSpuN2uT8?t=346 ideal size for me, incredible flexibility. I combine it with https://youtu.be/oaRyVuLuWOw?t=160 https://youtu.be/oaRyVuLuWOw?t=160 because I like flexibility :) Previously I was buying electronics and I needed to use proxies which are added cost and hassle.
- iamgopal 5y agoAmazon is for USD items, not KUSD items.
- Firehawke 5y agoHaven't had any problems with Amazon shipping, but I'm thinking I might need to record every unboxing just to make sure I can prove what happened the first time it DOES hit me. Because it most certainly will, sooner or later.
- londons_explore 5y agoI have an always recording CCTV camera outside my door. I just unbox it in view of that camera, and then show the goods to the camera in detail. Then any claims of missing/wrong/damaged goods go through smoothly. Most security cameras don't have autofocus, so showing closeups of scratches doesn't work...
- sneak 5y agoThis isn't going to help with the cc dispute, or with Amazon. They're going to decide without any information from you.
- kristopolous 5y agoYou can also get a nice YouTube channel out of it as well
- anti-nazi 5y agonazis refusing to refund other nazis? i am all for it
- kevingadd 5y agoIt's good news for them that the box was empty instead of filled with sand - that way the weight in the USPS shipping data made it obvious they weren't shipped the camera. I wonder if this was a Fulfilled By Amazon purchase or whether Amazon directly bought this empty box from a wholesaler to stock in their warehouse?
- avalys 5y agoHow does Amazon protect itself against unscrupulous buyers ordering $7k cameras and then claiming they received an empty box?
- justahuman74 5y agoNext week: Opt-out for the cameras on amazon devices to inspect your package opening process and send it for internal review. Data sent over neighbors wifi via another amazon device
- zorpner 5y agoOne prong of an approach would be to maintain a reputation that didn't make this seem instantly plausible.
- sumedh 5y agoCheck the package weight when its shipped.
- herpderperator 5y agoYou can ship dirt that weighs the right amount. It's happened before. [0] [0] https://www.businessinsider.com/22-year-old-mud-filled-boxes-scam-amazon-370000-2019-8 https://www.businessinsider.com/22-year-old-mud-filled-boxes...
- cbmuser 5y agoWell, it was pretty clear in this case as even UPS confirmed the package was way too light to actually contain the TV.
- encryptluks2 5y agoI don't see anywhere that says the item was shipped and sold by Amazon.com. If it was, then I can see how Amazon.com bears responsibility, but if not then it seems more like an issue with a third-party seller.
- matsemann 5y agoMost users don't know it's a marketplace. And Amazon tries to hide that. If they want to own the shopping experience, they also have to own the returns, fraud, bad reputation etc.
- kmonsen 5y agoIf you buy on the Amazon.com website it’s on Amazon to deliver your order and provide a good shipping experience.
- herpderperator 5y agoThat's not true for every item. Items can be shipped and sold by a third party even if bought on Amazon.com. It's up to the buyer to check this when purchasing. The easiest way to tell is to check if the item is 'Prime' or not, but even then it's better to check who is selling and shipping. Edit: I am describing the process as it is now. I am not saying that it should be this way.
- gambiting 5y agoNo, if you buy an item on Amazon.com then it's on Amazon.com to make sure you have a good experience. As a customer I literally don't care who is fulfilling the purchase, I'm making the purchase on Amazon.com and my money is clearly going to Amazon.com according to my bank statements. If they decide to work with unscrupulous 3rd parties then that's on them, not on me.
- herpderperator 5y agoThere's obviously a misunderstanding with my statement. I am not talking about what should or shouldn't be happening, or what is morally right, or what the ideal experience is. I'm warning people that unfortunately Amazon does not operate the way many people think. Of course I do agree that Amazon should be the sole seller and that if you buy something from Amazon you should expect to receive it from Amazon. I am simply stating facts as to how the website operates today. Right now, it's possible to order an item on the Amazon.com website that does not come from Amazon.com at all. It can be "shipped and sold" by a complete third party. Most items are shipped by Amazon, but it's not difficult to find items that are just listed on Amazon but the entire sale/shipping process is done by the third party. The parent comment: > If you buy on the Amazon.com website it’s on Amazon to deliver your order and provide a good shipping experience. is simply false, because that's not how Amazon operates today. It is literally wrong because it does not apply to all items on Amazon. That statement is only true if something is fulfilled by Amazon, which includes items "Shipped and sold by Amazon.com" and "Sold by <some_third_party>, fulfilled by Amazon". Fulfilled by Amazon means it's located at one of its many warehouses and Amazon ships it in their Amazon boxes. If I misinterpreted the comment, then my mistake.
- cbmuser 5y ago> This was despite the fact that when boxed the Sony a1 weighs 3.22 lb (1.46 kg), and the Chiles’ package was listed by UPS as weighing only 2 lb (900 g). Not sure why Amazon was still arguing at this point. If UPS confirms the package was basically empty, then Amazon has no reason to believe the customer was lying.
- sneak 5y agoThey're just following the script.
- robk 5y agoThis is not trustworthy. They dont really confirm at all. I've had them be off with label weight by multiple pounds before.
- matsemann 5y agoProbably like in "The Rainmaker". Automatically deny every claim above $X. If there's a complaint on the denial, automatically approve or deny based on a new number $Y. Most people give up before you finally get a real human to actually check the case.
- suifbwish 5y agoIf I was a god I would never send anyone to hell to burn forever in fiery torment. For this situation I would be very very tempted to make an exception. Anyone who sets up an automated system designed specifically to hassle people for seeking recourse for being wronged, deserves every form of torture they get.
- dalbasal 5y agoHell would be full before you got very far. Intentionally or unintentionally, this is how most such systems work... even ostensibly noncommercial ones... at least to some extent. Business systems are a chain of events. Every event has x% chance of happening and leading to the next one. If the next event makes money, it's optimized up. If it costs money, it's optimised down. Efforts to pay unclaimed rebates are never as enthusiastic as efforts to claim unpaid receivables. Thus is life.
- vishnugupta 5y agoAs a rule I don't order from Amazon beyond a certain price point. I purchase from a physical retail store. First couple of years of Amazon in India was really good. Good collection, low prices and good customer experience. But as their orders and catalog has shot everything about them has become a shitshow, at least from what I've observed. Also they have significantly ramped up 3rd party sellers and given extremely high density of retail stores in India I might as well go visit those stores and cut out Amazon. If I run into problems I can "physically" visit a store and talk to someone; with Amazon I might as well have better chances of talking to God.
- ixacto 5y agoI literally had an Amazon delivery person (err..1099 contactor?) throw a package over the fence at my apartment complex last year and hit my window. They do not care, add to this the piles of amazon boxes the differently-housed are grabbing off of porches and it's a real mess.
- blzaugg 5y ago> differently-housed Can you explain what you mean?
- aero-glide2 5y agoI think he means person without a home.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- CRConrad 5y ago"Residentially challenged"?
- ixacto 5y agoIt was sarcasm. Just tired of addicts shooting up and hassling me as I walk down the street, as well as attempting to sexually assault my friends.
- dstaley 5y agoThis is certainly one of those instances where I'd raise hell, but I actually avoid trying to file lost item claims with Amazon for smaller ticket items. I know they have automated systems in place to prevent fraud, and I'm terrified that reporting for smaller ticket items will get my Amazon account banned. I've had a friend have this happen with his Doordash account; the sushi place he orders from a lot was pretty bad at sending everything he ordered, and after reporting this to Doordash every time, they eventually disabled his account. To this day, the restaurant is still on Doordash.
- adimitrov 5y agoThat's perverse. You shouldn't have to self-censor out of fear. The fact that Amazon (Doordash, Google, ...) can get away with just cancelling people's accounts willy nilly and they'd have no recourse is a gaping hole in regulations. BTW, it's off-topic, but this right here is the among best arguments we can make for strong privacy, and against mass surveillance. If people are willing to swallow monetary damage out of fear to upset an algorithm that may cut back their privileges, imagine what happens to political free speech when you have to fear govt surveillance and black vans.
- ALittleLight 5y agoIt's a cost of doing business, not really a fear. I can't recall this happening to me, but if Amazon did make an error or damage a minor thing or whatever I wouldn't object because I would object if it were a major thing and I want to maintain a good record to make it more likely I automatically win any major objections in future. The cost of this strategy is accepting any minor loss from Amazon and the benefit is an increased likelihood of good service for major items. The only error I can recall from Amazon is they once included an exacto knife I didn't order in a package to me.
- Ekaros 5y agoWhy companies should not have right to cancel their relationship with person for non-discriminatory reasons? And constant complaints and errors on aggregate sounds entirely reasonable reason. If same thing kept happening inside non-online business I think we would find it pretty okay...
- dawnerd 5y agoThis is what chargebacks are for and even if you get banned over it for this much money I’d say it’s worth it, heck for 7k I’d take it to court. Would be an easy judgement based on the label weights alone.
- marban 5y agoI've placed approx. 15k orders with Amazon Germany in 20 years and have probably had less than 100 issues, mostly with FBA sellers. I get an answer from CS within 10 minutes and 1-day shipments are on time ~98%. Refunds are issued as soon as I drop the package in the return box. Call me a fan. The best experience is still Amazon JP but returns are a little more complicated (Even within Japan) — Obviously b/c you more or less do not return stuff in JP [Hansei (反省].
- glandium 5y agoAmazon JP got a little worse ever since they started having their own delivery, which is not great compared to Yamato or Sagawa, which they were using before (and are still using sometimes, it's not clear under what conditions). But the difference is almost at the level of nitpicking. When you're used to top-notch service, and you suddenly get a subpar experience, that's kind of disappointing.
- marban 5y agoWhen did they make the switch? I've mostly had Yamato same-day in Tokyo or remote areas like Okinawa.
- aikinai 5y agoI think it was a year or two ago? It was a pretty big deal and in the news for a while. I get a combination now of Amazon's own service or one of the big third-parties. All of them are great I think. I might prefer Amazon's since they're willing to just leave the package in front of your door.
- numpad0 5y agoThey didn't switch completely, but started using "Delivery Provider" as baseload bearer and use Japan Post/Yamato when makes sense.
- wayoutthere 5y agoThis is pretty much the same as the US; except our postmaster just obliterated our mail service to try to rig an election so Amazon is actually better than them now.
- cerved 5y agoI always record unboxing anything I buy online, it's a convenient way of proof of something is missing out damaged
- rkk3 5y agoAt the end of the day most big companies have found its a better strategy to trust/not dispute customers in these situations. If they wanted to I don't think that would hold up, it's not as though you are opening it in a controlled supervised environment.
- wyattpeak 5y ago> At the end of the day most big companies have found its a better strategy to trust/not dispute customers in these situations. The article we're responding to, not to mention the comments, is evidence that that is at minimum an unreliable assumption. Re your second point, the seemingly standard way of resolving these issues after the company refuses to comply is to make it a PR problem for the company. Videos are going to help for that.
- rkk3 5y ago> The article we're responding to... is evidence that that is at minimum an unreliable assumption. They were already refunded before the story was even published. Yes, Amazon didn't refund them 7K in their first customer support call, that ruffled their feathers but it is not at all surprising. At that $ obviously they need to be be escalated.
- wyattpeak 5y agoI think it's an extremely generous assumption towards Amazon that all they did was fail to refund "in the first customer support call". I don't know about you, but I've never filed a police report because someone made me call twice to resolve something.
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- villgax 5y agoSuch situations can be avoided if Amazon keeps updating us with weights & x-ray images of good from the very first step until delivery/package opening being done on camera
- KingOfCoders 5y agoHappened to me with a phone. Lego can check the completeness of packages by weighting grams, Amazon can't check the weight of a package with a phone ? Only could solve the problem with the help of the police. Then they would not cancel the attached carrier contract (which does not make sense without the subsidized phone) because they said Amazon's systems can create contracts but not cancel them. Again only the police helped. In the past I've got sent sometimes used electronics sold as new - recently I got 3 times used electronics as new in a row. Isnt that fraud?
- vixen99 5y agoSadly I have a me-too experience in ordering English books from Amazon UK for shipment to Romania. Packages don't arrive & surprisingly, Amazon seem to have no idea as to the carrier responsible. On two occasions, books arrived and Amazon had marked them down as 'lost' until I told them otherwise. Time to look for another UK bookseller but finding one who's learnt from the positive side of the Amazon phenomenon is difficult.
- Tabular-Iceberg 5y agoI consider Amazon a malicious website. Just take the books being deleted off of peoples’ Kindles.
- marcodiego 5y agoI remember when PS3 was launched, some vendors announced "PS3 BOX", put the price around 10% lower than the real price and sent only the box.
- aembleton 5y agoSame thing happened with the original Xbox. Xbox box were being sold on ebay.
- veselin 5y agoI feel there is something universal about the phase in which the company enters and it is interesting to learn what moves companies in different phases. Growing market, good press around, apologists for your brand, regulation and anti-monopoly scrutiny seems far away. Then the company is risk-taking, 7k$ that somebody occasionally may cheat is nothing in comparison to a possible blog post saying how awesome the company is. I think miraculously Apple is still here now, Google and Amazon were here 10 years ago, now AWS is here, Microsoft came here again recently, etc. Then times come that bad press is there regardless of what you do, regulators watch you carefully. Then the user support becomes some scripts to follow, revenue over the next months (or launch before the next promotion cycle) is all you care about. Here I think how Verizon were super greedy and tried to milk the Droid brand within the 1st year, essentially killing it. I think the problem is once you enter this phase, it self-reinforces to stay here. I have a theory why Google moved from one to the other and I have no view on the others, but at least here I think it was majority external factors not withing the company.
- a3n 5y agoI order electronics from Newegg (which is starting to feel Amazon-like with third parties). I generally use Amazon as a search engine to see what exists, look at reviews, then buy locally and physically if at all possible. Especially books, after they folded, spindled and mutilated too many books and their replacements.
- function_seven 5y agoThis is kinda funny. About 5 years ago or so, the prevailing comment was the opposite of yours. ("I go to Best Buy to compare widgets, then order the one I want on Amazon.") But I'm in the same boat. A lot more often I'll find myself looking at things on Amazon's site, then seeking out the manufacturer's own site, or another retailer, to make the actual purchase. I just don't trust Amazon anymore. So much rebranded Alibaba shit on there, or counterfeit hazards.
- IshKebab 5y agoMe too but reviews on Amazon are starting to get very untrustworthy. Not because of fake reviews, but because of products that unexpectedly come with a "Give us a review and we'll refund £5!" card in the box. The latest one I got specifically stated they didn't need a positive review (presumably to get around Amazon's rules?) but it's still a bribe even if it is via an implicit debt.
- metaphor 5y agoA bit tangential, but can anyone in the know of UPS inner workings explain why the applicable tracking number[1] would reflect a "Shipped" status 3 minutes before "Label Created"? https://www.ups.com/track?loc=en_US&tracknum=1Z9X26374278728448 https://www.ups.com/track?loc=en_US&tracknum=1Z9X26374278728...
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- odnes 5y agoThis this a clear cut case and amazon should process the refund, however, in general refunding is a hard problem for Amazon to solve due to the sheer volume fraud that occurs. For anyone unaware, go to telegram and do a public search for 'refunding'. There are hundreds of channels where you can pay someone to refund >£10,000 of stuff for you for a 10% fee. Afaik, the main method that 'refunders' use to defraud amazon is to (1) initiate a return (2) modify the return label so UPS accepts it into their system but (3) deliver it to the wrong address. So it looks to amazon as being successfully delivered to the return warehouse, but what actually got delivered was a brick, to some random house. I wouldn't be surprised if >1% of macbook and iPhone refunds are fraudulent in this way. Someone in a cybercrime lab they should write a paper about this whole ecosystem because it is a huge black market.
- confiq 5y ago> So it looks to amazon as being successfully delivered to the return warehouse, but what actually got delivered was a brick, to some random house but how amazon does not check the quality of the return? I mean, even if UPS confirms that the package arrived to right address, wouldn't someone from amazon warehouse check if the package is valid?
- odnes 5y agoWell there is nothing for them to check. From what I've read, they wait two weeks then mark the package as 'lost in transit'. I think for the last-mile of delivery, couriers rely on the actual address written on the package, not the address that the barcode scans to. I might be wrong though.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- amatecha 5y agoFor returns you have to print a barcode and put it in the box. You don't get your refund until they physically scan the code in the box. Maybe it's not standard everywhere, but this process has been around for some years now. If the package never gets to the return center, no refund would be processed…
- garmaine 5y ago> Given the risks associated with buying online, some customers are resorting to filming the process of unboxing expensive gear in order to create proof in the event that an order has not been correctly fulfilled. I don't know why this never occurred to me, but I will be doing precisely this in the future.
- 02020202 5y agothe only way to asses anything is when things are not working well. then you'll see if it was all just a house of cards.
- cunidev 5y ago> Given the risks associated with buying online, some customers are resorting to filming the process of unboxing expensive gear in order to create proof in the event that an order has not been correctly fulfilled. That is exactly what I do for every >300€ purchase I make online. Otherwise, refund without "video evidence" becomes impossible for the majority of platforms.
- jtbayly 5y agoI don't understand why video "evidence" which is easily faked, makes an ounce of difference. Open a package, empty it, tape it up, and then film yourself opening an empty package.
- Kiro 5y agoWhenever there's an article about an obvious outlier case (still outrageous in its own of course) you can assume that the top comment will be general complaints about said company's decline, often not representative of people's experience as a whole.
- petee 5y agoThe only outlier here is the cost. General complaints can be assumed to be reprensentive of these people's experiences, or they wouldn't be here complaining, no?
- Kiro 5y agoObviously not by judging by the replies. People are not upvoting that comment because they can relate, but because they love to hate on big companies.
- amatecha 5y ago"some customers are resorting to filming the process of unboxing expensive gear in order to create proof in the event that an order has not been correctly fulfilled" Yeah, for years I've been taking photos and/or video during the process of unboxing expensive items received via mail. Heard too many horror stories over the years. FWIW I would never purchase a $7000 camera on Amazon.
- neiman 5y agoI used to live for many years in a "bad" area of Berlin, where my packages were constantly disappearing, not arriving, taken by neighbors (who put an X as a signature), or left by the delivery people outside our building door. After a few such accidents, each of it super tiring on its own to get things reshipped or reimbursed (and often I failed), I decided all this modernity is not for me. Nowadays I rather buy whatever I can physically in a store, even if it's a bit more expensive. But again, that's an experience from a "special" part of Berlin, not the standard one I guess.
- detaro 5y agoAmazon DE at least consistently allows to ship stuff to a package locker (which are now really common in Berlin). Much prefer that for things that are not extremely bulky/heavy.
- konha 5y agoMaybe give “Packstationen” a try? Most retailers in Germany reliably ship to these parcel boxes that can only be opened with a code that is sent to you via mail/text.
- dalai 5y agoIn Germany you can also have them ship to a Packstation or directly to the post office - at least most of the time. This has worked well so far. The only problem I had was that sometimes they drop them off at a neighbor even when I am at home. At least nowadays the name of the neighbor is printed on the notice they leave in the mailbox (and is also included in the email notification) so X instead of signature doesn't work - at least for DHL and my area.
- toper-centage 5y agoIn Berlin, if you live in the ground floor of a residential building, you're stuck being the building's personal packstation. No mail man will bother ring all the bells of the building.
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- mdoms 5y agoStop giving Amazon money.
- hermitsings 5y agoWTF "refused"? You're a fucking company. Return that shit.
- hardlianotion 5y agoRather amusingly, the article says that the couple that suffered this indignity are from Alabama. The video news report says they live in Colorado.
- hermitsings 5y ago"The most customer-centric company on Earth"
- kylehotchkiss 5y agoI wouldn’t order a camera from a store that doesn’t specialize in photography (B&H or moment.com). You can ship things to any FedEx office store and pick it up with your ID. The package is insured by FedEx in that case until you show them ID and receive your package. I’ve done this frequently for jewelry and just picking up mail when visiting USA (I’m an expat at the moment)
- joelbondurant 5y agoTypical Bezos.
- ageitgey 5y agoLike most people, I've ordered a lot of packages (hundreds?) on Amazon and almost never had a problem. In the rare case of a problem, Amazon would instantly refund me. But almost all those orders are under $1000. Everything changes when you have a problem with an expensive order. Amazon has a price threshold where the support system is different and the normal CS people are powerless. During lockdown, I ordered a Sony camera and lens that was in the $5k+ range. The package went "missing" with the shipper with obvious fake tracking data, like multiple "customer not home" delivery attempts timestamped at 12am in the morning. The packages never showed up. Amazon kept saying it was the shipper's fault and the shipper said it was Amazon's responsibility. Lots of tweets, etc, got me nowhere. In the end Amazon finally refunded me, but it was a nightmare. They wouldn't even talk to me until I waited a number of days after the package was late and even then all they would say is that it had to be escalated to management who would review the issue eventually. Even when they finally agreed the package was lost, I had to wait for another management review to actually get the refund issued. They had my money tied up for weeks with no recourse for a package they never even delivered. I can only imagine how bad it would be if the shipper claimed it was delivered. My recommendation is to skip Amazon for anything expensive or at high risk of shipper theft/fraud. Your customer experience will not be the same as when they lose a $10 package. They will treat you like a criminal no matter what your past history with Amazon is.
- bjornjajayaja 5y agoBest thing to do is buy straight from manufacturer if possible require insurance on the shipment—that way the post has to deliver it or they are paying you!
- craftoman 5y agoAmazon (EU) is garbage. I ordered a high-end laptop from the Amazon Warehouses and they cancelled my order after 2 months. I kept calling them in the meanwhile many times and they were bs me with "everything ok" "your order will be shipped" "won't worry" until they cancelled my order without a reason.
- williw 5y agoI bought two bath faucets. Amazon shipped the wrong color, I returned them but Amazon refused to refund me. They just kept them, wouldn't refund or return. Talked to several people including managers. Still owe me $700. Amazon works great when it does, when it doesn't the whole system collapses.
- aembleton 5y agoWas that $700 just for two bath taps?
- lower100 5y agoI have the best online shopping experiences with merchants that are primarily B2B but also allow private customers on the side. Bonus points if they have a proven billing system that still runs on AS/400 and produces nice invoices in Courier font sent by physical mail. I either buy at these merchants or offline.
- jeeva357 5y agoAmazon has different face masks for different countries even though Same Executives handle multiple countries. As far my interrogation with one of Amazon's customer care executives most the calls with language setting to English all over the world to amazon has been handled mostly in India due to cheap labor workforce.There customer care exectives has some base limit for refunds apart from which requires approval from Manager and authorised representatives after Investigations. However there are many allegations that the amazon is not treating with same level of gentleness to all other developing countries like India. Vox media Podcast How amazon became giant and dominates the Indstry https://www.vox.com/land-of-the-giants-podcast https://www.vox.com/land-of-the-giants-podcast
- beezischillin 5y agoI don’t live in a country where Amazon operates but I do live in the EU. I’ve had good experiences with them regarding refunds and getting items the courier firm messed up with. I once ordered some stuff to the UK to a friend who shipped it to me with alongside some stuff from other places. My wait time for the whole package was a month due to this and when it arrived I noticed that one of the items I ordered was missing. I contacted them and they offered me a refund. I wasn’t expecting that! Another time DPD messed up my package and never delivered it, they just shipped it again and it I finally got it. The only nuisance was the wait time. That being said my trust for Amazon is at an all time low due to their marketplace listings. The discoverability has gone awfully bad, I generally end up searching for stuff elsewhere, researching stuff on Google and if I find something I need that’s only available through Amazon, then I have to and dig deep to see if it’s okay. They simply allow through all sorts of dubious items, knockoffs and scams that clearly just ship from China. Whenever I can, I just order straight from smaller, specialty shops that deliver abroad, instead. It’s not an Amazon-unique situation, however. A local giant online e-tailer started a marketplace and they pretty much instantly started having very similar issues. I still dislike having to spend lots of extra time just to not to accidentally buy something else instead of what I wanted. Frustrating, to say the least!
- itsbits 5y agoI was under impression that their return policy has some intelligence added. I mean how many items customer have returned/refunded, what are sellers saying about returned item kind of ML. After reading all the stories in comments, feel this is what Amazon should be prioritising. Already some local online stores are competing them across the globe.
- aari711 5y agohello
- texaswhizzle 5y agoThe biggest problem I have with Amazon is USPS theft. I have had dozens of packages delivered in my mailbox despite the fact that my mailbox is 3” tall. Amazon doesn’t care, USPS doesn’t care. But Amazon always make me wait at least a week to verify that this obvious theft is real. Photo evidence of my mailbox does not move the needle.
- huitzitziltzin 5y agoNo one else read this headline as “Sony AI”, rather than “Sony A1”?? I was excited to learn about this product but it’s just some camera ??
- anonu 5y agoDid they buy it used from Amazon? Id say 9 out of 10 used item, fulfilled by Amazon, has something wrong with it: broken, missing critical parts... And in one case a 24 inch monitor when I ordered a 27. I think it's just normal operating procedure unfortunately: checking and confirming every returned item is expensive. Simply turning around and delivering to the next chump is probably more profitable, even with the high error rate.
- Waterluvian 5y agoI don't know how we ever got to the point of accepting that shipping is some equal third party in the transaction. Shipping is a subcontractor to the company that sold the product. It is 100% the responsibility of the company to make right. Imagine if you bought a TV at a store and they said, "want us to bring it out to your car?" And they did. And it got destroyed in the parking lot. And the company said, "you'll have to take it up with the parking lot parcel company. They don't technically work for us."
- bootlooped 5y agoEspecially when the retailer is the one choosing the shipper. On some sites you can at least choose UPS vs FedEx, then it would be a slightly different story.
- CRConrad 5y agoNot really. Doesn't matter if the TV breaks in the store's front or back parking lot, it's still the store's parking lot.
- Waterluvian 5y agoI think what they're saying is that it's especially ridiculous given you don't even get a say in courier. And yet _you_ are made responsible for clawing back money from the courier if they screw up. I agree that underlines how especially ridiculous it is.
- thread_id 5y agoThere is a common theme in most of these stories: UPS. It would be interesting to know the annual dollar value of "loss" (read as theft) that occurs at the hands of Brown Truck Pirates.
- WrtCdEvrydy 5y agoYeah, I had one of these, but at a much lower threshold. I bought one of those blind spot mirrors for like $10. I received an envelope (think the old white and blue envelopes) that had nothing. Since the package was "delivered", the only option was to "return the items" but since I didn't have anything to return, there was nothing Amazon could do for me. It was almost funny.
- rkalla 5y agoThis is scary as people working at the shipping companies figure out that stealing packages is actually a DMZ of inter-mediation and for the most part they can get away with it. I'm sure this refund kicked off a serious investigation inside of Amazon/FedEx/UPS as this has been getting pretty bad - so for us to notice theft with SOMEWHAT regularity, I imagine it has to be an insanely pervasive problem. The Google Fi forums seem to mention the phone-then issue regularly... "I ordered Pixel 6 and never received it", etc. etc.
- fnord77 5y agoI had two expensive cameras stolen in transit - Amazon replaced both.
- gsich 5y agoAnything over 1K I just film the package opening ("unboxing" style). All with timestamp and stuff, just to be safe. No problems so far, but one can never know.
- pmoriarty 5y agoFor large purchases you really need to use an escrow service.
- harryvederci 5y agoOutrageous company does something outrageous. The people respond in outrage.
- pjmanroe 5y agoI just bought a new gaming chair last night, $172. So it's not that expensive. But I've never had a problem with Amazon. I did buy a 4TB external drive from Wish.com, and when I got it, it was only 2TB. They refunded me the money and I got to keep the drive. But it's never worked right.
- ThePowerOfFuet 5y ago>I did buy a 4TB external drive from Wish.com I, too, like living dangerously, but only to a certain extent.
- thekyle 5y agoDid you verify that the drives holds 2 TB of data? From Wish.com I wouldn't be surprised to order a 4 TB drive and get a fake 2 TB drive that actually only holds 500 GB.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- annoyingnoob 5y agoI stopped buying anything over $200 from Amazon for this reason. Just not worth it. Amazon wants to sell cheap Chinese junk and nothing more.
- morpheos137 5y agoI don't know if it happened in this case but very high value items like this should be sent via "registered mail."
- williesleg 5y agoAmazon diversity has done the needful. Expect them to go the same way as the rest of the companies invaded by foreign agressors.
- long11l 5y agoSpam Twitter within reason I had a 2 week contract. They cut it should. I went on a bender and low and before the CEO wants it take ln care of. I made a compromise and cut off a week but added a 500 "don't be a dick fee Hi @nfty-labs
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- subhro 5y agoI actively try to get things outside Amazon as well but most of the time end up buying from Amazon anyway. And people have rightfully said quite a few times, stuff is listed cheaper than on Amazon. However for most independent stores, manufacturers I notice that either they charge for shipping, or has a 50$ minimum to get free shipping. I have tried to bounce off cash back portals to cover for some of the shipping, but most of the time it is not enough. In addition, I have a Amazon card from Chase that offers 5% of cashback on amount spent at Amazon. Most of the time factoring in shipping and cashback seals the deal for Amazon and covers for the price difference.
- FpUser 5y agoI once had my $180 Amazon order not delivered while it was marked as delivered by Amazon. After filing complaint I got "sorry" directly from the actual seller (they're in the US and I am in Canada) and they shipped me replacement.
- draw_down 5y agoI can’t relate to people that have never had a problem with Amazon. Years back I had a string of 3 or 4 purchases that I would hear nothing about, until they would just refund me one day without ever sending the item. I also bought an air conditioner right before a heat wave and they just never shipped it. (I live in a west coast city, not a place that’s hard to ship to.) I was done after that. Amazon just isn’t worth dealing with. You can buy it from someone else.
- TheRealPomax 5y agoThis sounds like what should happen, irrespective of the seller? You can claim you got an empty box, but everyone's on the internet here, and pictures of an empty box with indignation as guide text gets you fake internet points on every social media site. That alone isn't enough for any seller to take your claim as true until you take the necessary steps that come with "I've been defrauded", like filing that credit card dispute and police report. Which they did, after which Amazon accepted the dispute, so... where's the news angle here? "Store honours a $7k claim without questioning it" would almost be more newsworthy.
- celeritascelery 5y agoBut the shipper (UPS) had a record of the package weighing only 2 pounds. That is hard evidence that the device was not present when shipped.
- LeCow 5y agoAnd that's why they won their fraud dispute... There will always be a generic and broad policy first. Then it will - and did - get resolved on further investigation.
- TheRealPomax 5y agoYes, and without a case file that evidence counts for exactly nothing. When it's this much money, you get to go to the police, report fraud, and back it up with the UPS shipping information. Now you now have case number and legally recognized evidence that you can take to the seller, so that they can be reasonably sure you're not just trying to get free money. Because again, it's the internet, just doctoring a UPS web page and printing your own shipping label is trivial for anyone who stands to me $7000 if they get away with it.
- hoppyhoppy2 5y ago>The Chiles filed a credit card dispute and made a crime report, and after The Denver Channel made its own inquiries and the Chiles tried emailing Amazon owner Jeff Bezos directly, Amazon relented and said that the $7,000 will be refunded once the credit card dispute had been resolved. It sounds like Amazon refused to refund their money until the media got involved. Also, even if that were not the case, a big part of what Amazon sells is convenience and (supposedly) great customer service. If you pay $7,000 only to receive an empty box, and you provide Amazon with evidence from UPS that the box's weight was less than the weight of the actual product, that should be all it takes to get your money back. Jumping through hoops with your credit card company and filing a police report should be the last resort for dealing with shitty companies that won't listen to anything but threats. There is no reason that the buyer should have to do that when dealing with a reputable company, especially when they have evidence from the shipper that the box did not contain the product they ordered.
- ck2 5y agoDecade ago I overnight-primed a $200 power supply because it cut out and needed 1000+ watts for mining back then. Box had someone's old power supply inside with all the cables cut off. And it was "sold and shipped by amazon" Was furious and then really worried amazon would not believe me but they overnighted another one to my surprise. I mean that's got to be a felony on an expensive item and Amazon has to know who returned the item to them previously? I still don't understand with all their automation and integration why they do not photograph the item as it is being packed so you know what it looks inside the shipping box and then the outside of the shipping box itself? Just out a camera over the packaging station right over the box.
- throayobviousl 5y agoI hardly trust Amazon to ship me authentic toothpaste. Who the hell buys a $7k item? I try not to buy anything from amazon since FBA is mixed in with knock offs and other garbage items. They have no quality control at all and don't care about knock offs.
- Vake93 5y agoHappened to me as well. I got a Asus ROG Strix G15 laptop on 13 May(this month) and upon clearance from Sri Lankan customs (where I live) the UPS agents discovered that the contents was missing. UPS notified me this and report this to Amazon. They(UPS) held the package with them and didn’t deliver it to me as it was empty. Even in the commercial invoice the gross weight of the laptop package was just 1.81KG! The laptop itself weighs about 2.3KG! When I connected Amazon support they basically said that the package was delivered and they did an investigation the the weights are correct as well. The UPS has filed a claim with Amazon and Amazon is not responding to UPS even and insists I obtain a police report. I didn’t even receive the package. Shouldn’t UPS and Amazon sort this out? We are under lock down due to COVID and I can’t go to a police station to make the complaint. Now I don’t have the laptop or a refund… This costed me about 1700 usd with shipping. It’s not a cost I can afford to just write off.
- nikanj 5y agoChargeback time! Hope you don’t have any Audible/Kindle/etc accounts, you’ll probably lose access to content you’ve bought, errm, licensed-with-no-binding-arbitration-clauses
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- mancerayder 5y agoI went to NewEgg (in the U.S.) for electronics item orders but some of the complaints about electronics, like expensive Nvidia cards going missing or whatnot, I've seen complaints for with NewEgg. Third party shippers, quality control issues are rife in reviews. In fact I ordered almost 3K of computer equipment from NewEgg that got stolen on my stoop as USPS threw it on a sidewalk in a giant city here, which was promptly stolen by a miscreant. NewEgg made me go to the police a couple of times but they did issue a replacement. So it's a mixed bag - they should have forced signature required. NewEgg > Amazon for computer equipment but the jury seems out. Any other alternatives for expensive PC parts?
- 34679 5y agoMicrocenter
- diogenescynic 5y agoMy biggest gripe with Amazon is the low level substitution they do or allow sellers to get away with. Sometimes you buy something that shows 15 ounces but receive something that is 12.5 ounces or something is swapped out for a cheaper version (California olive oil for some global mix olive oil). Then you have to waste your time for requesting a refund or discount or whatever. Amazon is great for certain things, but I've found their service is way different from major metros like the Bay Area to other smaller metros (like Sacramento).
- luke2m 5y agoAt first
- therein 5y agoThis happened to me as well. I was sent a A7sII box with a ziploc bag with the exact amount of cat litter to make the box as heavy as it should be. I had sent Amazon photos back when this happened. They refunded me no problem. But I think they wouldn't do it today.
- yumraj 5y agoThis is why I never buy certain kind of stuff at Amazon, or at least check others first. Camera and so on, check B&H first. Other electronics, check Best Buy first. TV, check Costco, they have 7 year warranty and great prices. Food items, check Walmart first and maybe Target. Home improvement stuff, check Home Depot. N95 masks, never buy on Amazon, you never know what you’ll get, check office stores and Home Depot first. And so on…
- dingosity 5y agoBack in 2018, I ordered a JeVois A33 camera for (I think) around $99 (maybe it was $69). And they sent me an empty box. After arguing with JeVois & Amazon, I finally did a credit reversal. I don't use Amazon for anything over $50 now.
- strenholme 5y agoI actually have never had a bad experience with Amazon. Then again, I pay about $300 a year to have my items shipped to a rent-a-mailbox store, mainly so I can have a public mailing address for things like domain registrations and my online resume. Also: I usually buy the really expensive stuff from B&H, mainly because they have lower prices than Amazon (they have an in-store credit card which pays the tax for you), and have never had a problem with them. Who I have had issues with is eBay; I have at least twice received counterfeit lower-quality goods from them, such as the time I got an obvious pirated and burned Blu-Ray when ordering a movie.
- ArtDev 5y agoAs Amazon's prices have risen, the minimum order for free shipping on other companies has lowered. For human rights reasons, I am avoiding Amazon unless the price is clearly much better. The funny thing is, it usually isn't (except for books).
- ______- 5y agoI never buy anything over $150 on Amazon, because the pricier the thing(s) you want, the more it hurts when it doesn't arrive at all. Not that I would be happy losing $150, but it's better losing that than $1500 (or more!). I also drip feed items to my doorstep instead of doing one huge order with many items in it, that way I compartmentalize the order so that if a small order doesn't arrive, I can live with it. This should be common sense, but some people are so impatient that they have to have everything in one big order rather than span the items out over time. Also if I want some expensive gadget like a laptop / iPad or whatever, I go to my local brick and mortar store for that. Buying high-spec luxury goods on Amazon is a bad idea.
- dang 5y agoUrl changed from https://fstoppers.com/news/amazon-refused-refund-7000-after-shipping-empty-box-instead-sony-a1-564979 https://fstoppers.com/news/amazon-refused-refund-7000-after-..., which points to this.
- cgtyoder 5y agoSeems like a good thing to do for high-value items is video record any unboxing. That will certainly go a long way in helping to prove the correct contents were in the box when first opened. I will be doing that from now on.
- hammock 5y agoCredit card chargeback...