23 ms·
Visa Plans to Enable Bitcoin Payments at 70M Merchants
- MrDresden 6y agoWhat little (micro) BTC I have I would never use for normal day to day transactions. I really have a hard time imagining that any other volitile crypto currency in circulation will ever be used in such a way.
- lokendra100 6y agoThats gonna change the ground financial institutions play on.Exciting.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- imglorp 6y agoWhy? Nobody's going to spend the transaction fee, currently about $US16, to buy a coffee. For big items maybe?
- KorematsuFred 6y agoThese transactions may not be on the chain transactions. You basically buy Bitcoin from Visa, visa pays bitcoin to Merchants (which remains in Visa's wallet) and you and merchant will settle your accounts with Visa in future at which point you may have to pay a fee.
- lottin 6y agoPeople are paying good money for owning a serial number with no connection whatever to anything in the physical or in the virtual world. Don't be surprised if they also gladly pay a ridiculous fee to buy a coffee.
- dizzant 6y agoThis take on Bitcoin -- not backed by anything in the physical or virtual world -- is misinformed. You're correct that coin isn't specifically backed by anything in the sense that you can't trade it in for a an equivalent asset like gold. But neither is the US dollar. BTC's value is backed at least by the billions that have been spent on mining architecture by companies like MARA and RIOT, large mining pools, producers of mining ASICs, etc. Huge amounts of physical and virtual infrastructure have been created to achieve the current global hash rate, and the stakeholders in that infrastructure have vested interest in the value of Bitcoin remaining high. China is transitioning to digital currency, which lends legitimacy to the technology. There is also a growing collection of institutional owners, such as MicroStrategy, Square, and Tesla's notorious $1.5B buy in. The USD is backed by "the full faith and confidence of the US Government" since leaving the gold standard. Bitcoin is backed by collective faith and confidence in the security and utility of the underlying blockchain. As more opportunities arise to transact in Bitcoin, its value will tend to stabilize.
- imtringued 6y ago>Huge amounts of physical and virtual infrastructure have been created to achieve the current global hash rate, and the stakeholders in that infrastructure have vested interest in the value of Bitcoin remaining high. Miners are in it for the money. If the money dries up they just move onto something else. Your logic could be applied to the gold rush as well. A huge industry was created, it won't let gold fall in price as if there was a huge cartel capable of doing so. >But neither is the US dollar. I can exchange it for things I want to buy. That's plenty of backing for the average consumer. If one day it has become worthless because I cannot buy anything with it anymore then I will declare it worthless and so will everyone else. Meanwhile with Bitcoin this logic is the same and when it does finally become worthless, people will still insist that it isn't.
- Goronmon 6y agoThe USD is backed by "the full faith and confidence of the US Government" since leaving the gold standard. Bitcoin is backed by collective faith and confidence in the security and utility of the underlying blockchain. The utility of a country, it's people/resources/military/economy/etc, is pretty obvious. What is the utility of the blockchain outside of the value of Bitcoin itself?
- PragmaticPulp 6y agoIf we’re talking about 100 or 1000 crypto-rich people buying coffee with Bitcoin to prove a point, sure. But the tens of millions of people who buy coffee every morning have no desire to spend extra for the same product. They already have a credit card in their pocket that has no fees (or maybe negative fees if it’s cash back.). They’re going to use that card.
- ChainOfFools 6y agoand yet this is trending toward precisely the scenario the hyperbitcoinization screed gleefully discussed, where anyone who didn't buy in to the scheme early on would be left impoverished once bitcoin swallowed the entire global financial system.
- beforeolives 6y ago> Don't be surprised if they also gladly pay a ridiculous fee to buy a coffee. I would be very surprised if people started deliberately picking the much more expensive option for no benefit whatsoever.
- ceejayoz 6y agoSure they will. Saks Fifth Avenue sells a $1500 plastic tic-tac-toe board. Plenty of upscale market for absurdly expensive things that do the same thing the cheap version does. https://www.saksfifthavenue.com/product/edie-parker-tic-tac-toe-game-0400013811838.html https://www.saksfifthavenue.com/product/edie-parker-tic-tac-...
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- beforeolives 6y agoI don't think it's the same. Paying more for the same cup of coffee doesn't make Starbucks more upscale than it was before or than it is for anyone who just paid with their credit card / phone / cash.
- tylersmith 6y agoAlmost certainly Visa would be acting as a (centralized) transaction aggregater that uses the settlement-layer pattern. There's no value for Visa to provide anywhere else really, other than to use their transaction network to transact the bitcoin asset.
- arduinomancer 6y agoWhat happens then if I pay in bitcoin and the price drops before Visa posts the aggregate transaction to the chain? Who takes the hit?
- tylersmith 6y agoThey would be totally decoupled, but essentially they'd take risk of the underlying prices changes. Same as now with the USD, it's just not as pronounced.
- foepys 6y agoHigh Bitcoin transaction fees are exactly what's good for Visa. Visa most likely wants to get your Bitcoin first and settle in the merchant's currency. They then sell Bitcoin from different purchases in large on-chain transactions. Visa can essentially make the fee of a Bitcoin-to-merchant transaction $16 and still be on par with Bitcoin's own transaction fees. Only that you can buy stuff easily.
- imtringued 6y agoThey can also offer the usual credit card functionality. Spend dollars and settle with Bitcoin once per month.
- staplers 6y agoI don't initiate a wire transfer when I buy a coffee. I use my bank card.
- lucb1e 6y agoYou don't think that if the transaction settlement method cost a tenner to settle a six euro item, you could buy it with your special card that uses this settlement method for six euros? If you use bitcoin, someone somewhere is moving those funds even if you are just "using your card". You're telling the payment provider to initiate a transfer to the merchant. How did you imagine this would work otherwise?
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- RyanShook 6y agoBitcoin transaction costs are very high so I’m assuming all these payment processor transactions will be off-chain. Do you think that having so many off-chain transactions that are essentially converting USD reduces the perceived value of BTC or raises it?
- imtringued 6y agoIt would raise it because more people will use it, but it would also eliminate all the usual "crypto" marketing reasons to put money into Bitcoin.
- fearface 6y agoYes
- thebean11 6y agoWhy would it reduce the value? Off-chain transactions are something the core Bitcoin team are very much in favor of.
- postalrat 6y agoThat sounds like they are in favor of not using bitcoin.
- MrMan 6y agoIf your purchasing power is calculated in bitcoin but your purchasing in some other currency, there is no real problem there. Bitcoin network can get used one per day for settlement, and the rest of the time use visa digital coins! Which they call dollars or euros, some differently named legacy meatspace fiat. Then bitcoin is free to just swim around in libertarian platonic ideal of freedom from societies obligations and rules
- thebean11 6y agoThey are in favor of not using the L1 Bitcoin blockchain for small payments. L2 solutions, both decentralized ones like the lightning network and centralized ones like Visa are still "using Bitcoin" as a currency, even though they are not using the L1 blockchain.
- helen___keller 6y agoWhat does this look like in practice? A "bitcoin debit card" tied to an exchange as your bank account?
- philangist 6y agoThat's how the Coinbase VISA card works
- kevinak 6y agoWondering the same. I hope they use the Lightning Network. If it's just another debit card on top of some exchange that's pretty boring.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- baby 6y agoWhy is everybody betting on bitcoin for payments when there are faster and more stable alternatives in the crypto space? I’m thinking that this is more about a proof of concept to get into the space.
- loceng 6y agoBecause they want to be at the bottom of the pyramid scheme and now that it's gained enough mainstream media attention it doesn't even cost ridicule.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- markkanof 6y agoIf it is in fact a pyramid scheme, wouldn't they want to be on the top rather than the bottom?
- tylersmith 6y agoNobody wants to be the bottom of a pyramid scheme. That's the scheme.
- yumraj 6y ago1. FOMO 2. If everyone (read: the vocal but high profile minority) is talking about it, even though we don't understand it, there must be something to it. Everyone (read: the vocal but high profile minority) cannot be wrong. 3. There is no career downside of betting on this and it fails, since everyone else was betting on it. 4. There is a career downside to not betting on it and it is successful.
- pier25 6y ago> If everyone (read: the vocal but high profile minority) is talking about it, even though we don't understand it, there must be something to it. Everyone (read: the vocal but high profile minority) cannot be wrong. That sounds like the JS community.
- pawelduda 6y agoAnother layer 2 for BTC
- tiffanyh 6y agoIs this anything more than Visa responding to Mastercard announcements last month? The HN discussion with 800+ comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26102030 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26102030
- ed25519FUUU 6y agoNothing like using a credit card and paying a $15 fee for a transaction that takes 2 hours and can’t be reversed.
- tylersmith 6y agoVisa would be providing 0 value if it exposed these drawbacks of Bitcoin's transaction network to users. Making cheap, fast transactions with fraud protections is exactly what a company like Visa has to offer.
- qeternity 6y agoSo Bitcoin, without the Bitcoin. Brilliant, why didn’t anyone think of this before.
- imtringued 6y agoThat's pretty much every second layer scaling solution.
- tylersmith 6y agobitcoin without Bitcoin, and it's been their plan for years now.
- latchkey 6y ago"Other than Bitcoin, the payment processor also plans to allow for the use of stablecoins."
- cblconfederate 6y agoCall it what you want. Visa is now a second layer and btc is the first haha
- tryonenow 6y agoI have very little long term faith in BTC at this point. It is effectively centralized, has limited capacity, outrageous fees when the network is busy, and then there are growing concerns over environmental impact...but I'm still holding on to my stash as the growing institutional momentum over the last year or so seems like it might have a significant positive influence on price, before BTC is eventually abandoned. It's a gamble but it wouldn't surprise me if we saw $100k at this point, might as well let it ride if you've locked in whatever you originally paid for it.
- imtringued 6y ago>It's a gamble but it wouldn't surprise me if we saw $100k at this point, might as well let it ride if you've locked in whatever you originally paid for it. I won't go into details but there is absolutely no way Bitcoin will go to $100k and stay there. Once it reaches that level the bubble will finally pop and we will get see lots of tears.
- k1rcher 6y ago100% agree with you on all points. As a valid replacement for currency, it is inherently flawed. As an investment? A very solid choice. Many seem to have difficulties differentiating between the the two distinct concepts, myself included.
- qeternity 6y ago> As an investment? A very solid choice. What’s the thesis?
- zucked 6y agoBecause it's still magic to retail investors, and as long as they don't see behind the curtain, they'll keep coming along in droves and inadvertently propping it up + pushing it higher.
- tryonenow 6y agoInstitutional and retail investors are just starting to pile on and there will be potentially massive gains to be had in the near to mid term before the bottom falls out. Long term? Probably not smart. Safe to get in now? Debatable, pretty high risk. But if you have a bunch of coins laying around and you're willing to gamble a bit longer...
- gervwyk 6y agoNot directly related, but has anyone looked at Kin [1] recently. Besides btc and eth, they are the only guys with SEC clearance. And given that they are running on the Solana chain, as far as I understand, makes micro transactions possible. Also from a dev point of view, their weekly reward engine payouts is quite attractive! I’m really interested to hear what others think of Kin? [1] - https://kin.org https://kin.org
- k1rcher 6y agoThis is super interesting, thanks for sharing. Cryptocurrencies and alt coins are a dime a dozen these days and it is incredibly difficult to filter through the noise.
- gervwyk 6y agoCouldn’t agree more. I’ve tracked these guys from the start. Really solid concept behind it and the founder make a really strong commitment from the start to say that if its a currency the only thing that matters is the number of daily transactions. Which is really true if you consider the value of a currency related to the value of the network. unfortunately they really hit a speedbump with the long ongoing SEC case, but now that it is finalized it all can really play into their advantage. Also the fact that they have done 3 chain migrations did not do any favors, but the techs say its for the best. Would be really interested to understand why changing from Stellar to Solana is so important?
- bhouston 6y agoBitcoin is an asset that tends to appreciate. Why would I use it as payment? Lastly, is it considered legal tender? What is the meaning of legal tender if one can use Bitcoin everywhere usd is accepted?
- vmception 6y agoits just liquidity there is tremendous value for me in being able to barter transaction with an asset that someone can immediately sell for what they want I've been illiquid sometimes due to some combination of card networks accepted and when I say "eh, what about Bitcoin" because I have some dust in a wallet on my phone, I'm completely serious while the merchant spirals into their ignorance and cognitive dissonance nervously laughing and regurgitating some headline they saw 7 years ago other people just take it like "yeah sure" its just like get over it are we exchanging equivalent value or are you mentally incapable for this century
- aeternum 6y agoThis lets you keep your funds in BTC until you the instant you want to use it. If you believe that Bitcoin is an asset that 'only goes up', wouldn't you want to keep even your spending money in BTC for as long as possible?
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 6y agoBecause you will die if you don't spend it on some food. There is more to life than to grow your wealth.
- imtringued 6y agoPeople buy food with their worthless dollars that they got from their worthless job and then spend the excess on worthful Bitcoin.
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 6y agoThat's temporary. Soon, everyone is paid in Bitcoin and all stores accept Bitcoins only, so you will have no choice but spend them.
- epx 6y agoIn a gold rush, sell shoves?
- wmf 6y agoIn the case of crypto that analogy doesn't really apply. Just hodling crypto exceeds the returns of building anything related to crypto.
- 1023bytes 6y agoI already have a Binance VISA card that works anywhere. So what's supposed to be new with this solution?
- drchopchop 6y agoNot much. From the article: "And secondly, working with Bitcoin wallets to allow the Bitcoin to be translated into a fiat currency and therefore immediately be able to be used at any of the 70 million places around the world where Visa is accepted."
- purple_ferret 6y agoMisleading Title. Visa says it will allow for Bitcoin to be converted to fiat, and the fiat can be spent using a Visa Card in the same way debit cards already work. This is already done with the Coinbase card, Gemini card, etc The statement is very vague in terms of who is covering the conversion.
- notyourwork 6y agoIt's such an anti-pattern for the world to adopt this approach. Sadly most people don't care nor should have to but the decentralization is effectively moot when payment processors like Visa get involved. Sadly, I'm less and less hopeful that crypto will be what the movement conveyed over last 10 years.
- hakfoo 6y agoFundamentally, we're stuck with conversion and middlemen until we have real products that are priced "natively" and stably in Bitcoin. People aren't willing to say "this load of bread costs .00004534 BTC" because tomorrow it could be significantly less or more. And conversely, that reinforces the volatility, as there's no anchoring of BTC to real-world purchasing power. So for the foreseeable future, we're looking at a conversion model and that requires someone to backstop. So how do we create products priced in BTC? We can't even get, for comparison, shops pricing their goods in grams of gold or silver, a more stable alternative.
- toomuchtodo 6y agoJust as with social media, convenience was more important than sovereignty via decentralization. Can’t change the wind, have to adjust your sails.
- BuyMyBitcoins 6y agoI don’t fault the average person for not wanting to be their own bank. I’ve been using bitcoin for years and I’m still terrified I’m going to mess up a transaction or lose access to my wallet.
- dencodev 6y agoNot sure if this was the first year for tax returns to have it, but I was asked to document every single time I spent bitcoin to purchase something. Because you have to pay capital gains on the value above when you bought it. I wonder if this is true here but either way it's a massive pain in the ass.
- DJBunnies 6y agoCryptotrader.tax automates it, fwiw.
- monkeydust 6y agoHaving dived into DeFi over last few weeks I am much more conscious and annoyed by the fees you have to pay to get from fiat to your final intention.
- tim333 6y agoKraken's maker feea are about 0.16%. They are quite liquid too.
- janspeer 6y agoAnd visa used usdc from the stellar network (XLM)
- hnrodey 6y agoOne of the reasons I'm bullish on Bitcoin over the next decade is precisely because of the anti-BTC sentiment on this board.
- LAMike 6y agoIt's so funny to watch the "smart kids" from HN miss out on the biggest opportunity in the past decade to create wealth through software. The cope is immense
- rawtxapp 6y agoTo me, it just says that we are still in the early days in the grand scheme of things.
- zionic 6y agoIt’s like slash dot hating the iPod all over again. “Expensive, less TPS than my SQL server. Meh”
- kajumix 6y agoThe anti-BTC sentiment on HN puzzles me. There is no intelligent critique. The doubts that are endlessly repeated here have been addressed in detail, and are available online. Scaling and transaction throughput, energy consumption, state attacks, protocol weakness and lack of backing have all been responded to, to a sufficiently satisfactory degree.
- ipsum2 6y ago> to a sufficiently satisfactory degree That's an opinion, not a fact.
- janspeer 6y agoAnd visa will use usdc on the stellar (XLM) network. Wonderful news for XLM
- iijj 6y agoMaybe I don't understand it correctly, but after having recently done my taxes, it seems to me you'd generate a capital gain or loss that has to be captured on IRS Form 8949 every time such a thing triggered bitcoin to be converted to USD, goods or services. Or is it some nudge-nudge-wink-wink situation where everyone, including the IRS, ignores such a thing unless the sums involved are large.
- luxuryballs 6y ago;)
- rawtxapp 6y agoBecause of the open nature of the blockchain, the IRS knows all your exact movements, so there's no nudge-nudge-wink-wink especially if you have tied your real identity to a Bitcoin address using a centralized exchange. Presumably, tools like cointracker (maybe even Visa themselves), etc, will take care of reporting these taxes for you, still a pita, but doable.
- pmastela 6y ago> open nature of the blockchain Only some are open. Take a look at Monero. There's a bounty out to make transactions on it traceable [1]. 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25752042 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25752042
- qeternity 6y agoOr maybe nobody really wants to spend Bitcoin because its only use-case is wild speculation and this is just a marketing stunt on Visa’s behalf.
- imtringued 6y agoPeople will spend Bitcoin, grudgingly (remember the pizza? what a fool, never spend your Bitcoin!), thanks to Visa people will actually be able to spend it. Thanks to Visa Bitcoin will not be decentralized anymore either.
- dnprock 6y agoThe problem with using Bitcoin for payments is volatility. Bitcoin's price is volatile. Bitcoin supporters say volatility will go down "at some point". The logic is pretty silly. Bitcoin is money for the people. But when the super rich people adopt it, volatility will go down. They have more money. The Bitcoin money "tank" will be bigger. Its volatile flow will go down. Bitcoin is digital gold, God's money. When it comes to volatility, it's up to humans to "fix" it. The fix means we all have to "buy" into it, that is, blindly believe the problem will be fixed somehow. Stop selling, keep holding. Maybe, forever. :) It's probably not going to be fixed. Volatility is likely an inherent property due to its limited supply. https://bitflate.org/post/2020/05/10/bitcoin-volatility.html https://bitflate.org/post/2020/05/10/bitcoin-volatility.html
- tehjoker 6y agoHow the heck would bitcoin volatility go down when there's no fixed reason to use it? USD has value despite fiat status because it's required to pay US taxes and oil markets are priced in USD (by force and trade agreement). Bitcoin is totally unteathered from reality (and deflationary which is another story entirely). This means Bitcoin's value is based on completely ephemeral feelings, and the size of its network -- both things that can disappear overnight. The most solid thing you can say about it is that you can use it to get around government sanctions, which is not exactly high praise.
- capableweb 6y ago> both things that can disappear overnight I understand what you mean and it's true in theory, but could never happen in reality. Even if a lot of the world stops believing in Bitcoin and the price tanks, there will always be at least two people interested in trading it with each other. If those two people run one node each, they can make it happen. Bitcoin can no longer disappear overnight. It was true in the beginning, but the network and mind-share is too big now. > which is not exactly high praise The market seems to value a independent and censorship proof currency differently than you, as those are two of the main features of Bitcoin and Bitcoin is seemingly receiving a lot of high praise, at least at the moment and past 7 years.
- Priem19 6y agoThe most sophisticated pyramid scheme ever, hidden in plain sight; so obvious that everyone second guesses themselves. “They all seem to be going along, I guess I must be wrong.” Money corrupts; bitcoin corrupts absolutely: https://www.cynicusrex.com/file/cryptocultscience.html https://www.cynicusrex.com/file/cryptocultscience.html.
- asinoastuto 6y agoinb4 you get called a "no-coiner" which always makes me think people who are "coiners" are immature children.
- elietoubi 6y ago1) Title is somewhat misleading ... They are trying to help wallet to convert to fiat to pay in fiat. 2) I think Visa is terrified of the competitive nature of crypto (not only bitcoin but any stablecoin). By essence, a trustless network for digital payment is a direct competitor to Visa. Full disclosure. I am the CEO of carbon payment, a global payment solution leveraging stablecoins for global payments.
- tw600040 6y agoIf BTC does catch up, the current inequality of the world will look like an anthill in comparison to the inequality that BTC will create. I can't imagine the world letting that happen..
- kneel 6y agoPeople who can recognize value and invest in it might actually get a decent return on their due diligence. The horror.
- matheusmoreira 6y agoHow is that the coin's fault? Nothing stops anyone from downloading an app, buying some and selling for profit whenever convenient.
- rawtxapp 6y agoYou'd be surprised as to how many early holders sold at local maximums. And at the very least, that inequality can't be permanently maintained by printing more of it to give to the wealthy.
- ChainOfFools 6y agohilariously, the people who got their coins stuck in the Mt. Gox hack back in 2014 are likely to end up with some of the biggest gains of anyone in crypto.
- seibelj 6y ago“Don’t buy into this stupid thing, or you’re an idiot! This is going to zero!” 5 years later... “It’s not fair that not enough people bought in. Now we have to ban it because the wrong people bought in!”
- Geee 6y agoThe truth is complete opposite. Fiat currencies have created insane amount of wealth inequality, because they benefit those who have the power to borrow cash and own assets. With bitcoin, people can maintain their purchasing power and wealth. Bitcoin isn't pegged to CPI which means that it increases in value when economic productivity increases. CPI pegged currencies move purchasing power from labor to capital.
- 67868018 6y agoThe number of people commenting who completely misunderstand Bitcoin and crypto is astounding. Bitcoin will never be used directly for payments, it's a value store. Immutable deflationary digital gold. I wrote it off for years too because it was too slow and the fees were too expensive. That was the dream they had, but they couldn't realize it at the base layer. I was still walking around last year believing that's the scam they were still peddling, but once you take time to investigate you'll see it will become a major part of the world economy. COVID helped push this over as bailouts and printing money in the US and the ECB is going to drive a massive movement of money out of the markets and fiat. Normally you'd see momentum go to bonds when the stocks burst but the bonds situation is unsalvagable. Also expect a ton of movement to crypto when wealth taxes get implemented to fix economies. They'll use it to hide assets, guaranteed. Form an LLC, siphon the money out that way and into crypto.
- audunw 6y agoWhy do people still claim Bitcoin is a store of value? It has none of the properties of a good store of value IMO. - Boom/bust cycles means you’re at high risk of not being able to withdraw without losing most of your value - There’s no regulation of reserves in other more tangible values behind the currency - Bitcoin has no value to others not holding Bitcoin. Gold and art still has value to others not holding it. That is, I’d be willing to buy gold or art at a certain price for their practical or esthetical use, not just as an investment scheme. This puts a more solid barrier for how low the price of these assets can go. - The future regulation of cryptocurrencies is highly uncertain. Just look at India. I have no doubt that other countries will follow. Most likely there will be regulations requiring reserves behind cryptocurrencies. There’s not much reason to think that governments will be cool with printing money with zero reserves in the long term just because they’re printed by algorithms. It’s not allowed for banks, why should cryptocurrencies be treated differently? Bitcoin is a high-risk high-reward investment scheme. A pretty good one so far. Nothing wrong with that. It’s absolutely not a store of value.
- dlubarov 6y ago> I’d be willing to buy gold or art at a certain price for their practical or esthetical use For esthetical use, wouldn't an inexpensive fake gold work just as well, as long as its appearance was substantially the same? Not many people are interested in buying fake gold, of course, but I think that's a matter of wealth/status rather than aesthetics. I think the demand for white gold and rose gold also suggests that interest in gold jewelry is largely about wealth/status. Even "gold gold" jewelry is usually mixed with lighter metals in order to intentionally change its appearance. (Of course it's also to strengthen the material, but that could be done while maintaining the approximate color if people truly liked the color.)
- xiphias2 6y agoThere are so many people commenting here about Bitcoin holders who don't even have Bitcoin. As a person living primary on Bitcoin, I would love what VISA is doing, the volatility is not a problem for me, lightning wallets would be perfect, but I don't want to do taxation for thousands of small payments with different Bitcoin prices (especially as I'm not from US, where there is specialized software for it), so I lend USD against my Bitcoin tax-free and use that money to buy stuff. My behaviour would change if Bitcoin could be used for buying things directly tax-free (just like with any other currency).
- moralsupply 6y agoDoes that mean more energy will be used to mine Bitcoin and more carbon will be emitted in the atmosphere, killing turtles in the oceans and burning the remains of the Amazon forest?
- Black101 6y agolol...
- cronix 6y agoNow that crypto is being more socially accepted, of course Visa and others will want to collect all the data on the products people are purchasing with it, just like they do with our fiat currency.
- samstave 6y agoA big regret; I was offered $2,000 of btc at $9/share... I didnt know what BTC was so I turned it down... I was offered unlimited shares of APPL at $9 / share I bought some but sold as soon as it hit $100. I thought "let me borrow $10,000 from the family to borrow $20,000" to buy APPL once the Ipod came out... but I didnt want to bother them... ~regrets My grandmother was offered 10% of this company - and she threw the letter away and said "nobody is ever going to drink that much coffee....." The letter was starbucks...
- thysultan 6y agoAre they setting up a lighting network?
- vicvvv 6y agoIsn’t the whole idea of decentralized digital currency systems to eliminate intermediaries, maximize privacy and reduce transaction costs? The visa network stands to lose the most, get seriously disrupted, more they are scrambling to stay relevant and frame this as a value added service.
- imtringued 6y agoLose the most? If people are moving onto Visa's Bitcoin network for some inexplicable reason then Visa is clearly winning because customers aren't fleeing into a competing startup.
- vicvvv 6y agoThe threat to visa is the crypto block chains disinter-mediates their incredibly profitable duopolies.
- throwawaysea 6y agoYea it not clear to me if Visa’s involvement is a good thing. I would want cryptocurrencies to break the Visa-MasterCard duopoly, to grant privacy from prying eyes (both companies and governments), and increase financial efficiencies by eliminating middlemen profiteers. This feels like a takeover of something with that potential that is meant to prevent that very outcome. Can someone with more expertise tell me why I’m wrong?
- yigitcakar 6y agoThis might be a scheme to increase taxation on bitcoin revenue. Besides being a revenue source based on volatility and scarcity, bitcoin's real value is being a tax free wealth exchange between people and generations. Bitcoin has been following internet's, especially start-up scene's trajectory. Like internet, Bitcoin started as a technological adventure and garnered the attention of first movers. Those first movers gained a lot of wealth through bitcoin and general population got interested. The surge in interest created a bubble. We are riding that bubble. Bank of America's research shows that we passed the monopolization stage. Report mentions "About 95% of Bitcoin is controlled by just 2.4% of the accounts, and distribution is heavily skewed towards the largest accounts." There might be a burst, and bitcoin might not survive that. I believe, the NFT and DeFi are projects to keep the bubble going, or create some value after the burst so like internet companies, the bitcoin sector can recover. In its current situation, I don't believe the bitcoin can recover from a burst, but I would love to hear differing opinions especially from people who understand finance.
- strogonoff 6y agoHow do they plan to determine exchange rates? How will they protect themselves and/or customers against volatility?
- varispeed 6y agoThis de facto duopoly for electronic payments is very concerning, but there seems to be no incentive to break it up. Why do you think that is? Ideally people should be able to create their own banks and issue their own cards provided they talk the same open source protocol. We have all technology available that could enable this, but there needs to be a political will to make this happen. This could me nationalisation of the infrastructure of both payment processors or forcing them to open it up for 3rd parties - for example a private small bank should have no worse fees than a big whale bank. As long as these corporations can gatekeep our money (and time), we are not free.