44 ms·

iPhone factory workers say they haven’t been paid, cause millions in damages

458 points by dataflow 6y ago

weare138 6y ago
Apple says it is investigating the company to see if Wistron violated Apple's supplier guidelines but in the meantime here's our new $849 iPhone 12.
- MangoCoffee 6y ago
  Apple itself pay their contractors shit. Apple investigating? give me a break! i used to work at a Dell repair depot. Dell contracted out to make repair for their stuffs. Dell pay the contractor shit and that in turn make their contractor pay their employees shit. i work in the IT dept of repair depot so my salary isn't like the front line workers. believe me when i said company like Apple, Dell, HP...etc. use contractor like Wistron is because they can pay as little as possible and pocket in as much as they can. Apple doesn't care about the working people.
  - tsjq 6y ago
    MBAs see these all as cost centers. So, they will spend lower and lower money on these departments. To them, only sales/marketing are profit centers, and will keep funding those departments for ever
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- finger 6y ago
  > NEW DELHI/BENGALURU (Reuters) -Apple Inc has placed supplier Wistron Corp on probation, saying on Saturday it would not award the Taiwanese contract manufacturer new business until it addressed the way workers were treated at its southern India plant. https://www.reuters.com/article/apple-india-idUSKBN28T0DW https://www.reuters.com/article/apple-india-idUSKBN28T0DW
  - ilaksh 6y ago
    Does that include actually paying them what they owe?
    - tedk-42 6y ago
      Apple paying their contractor's employees? That's not how business works. I'm on the side of the workers. Their treatment is dogshit. The target should be placed squarely on the taiwanese company however, not Apple. Apple should have a higher standard, but they can only apologise for the actions of their contractor. If they did that it would make no sense business wise
      - weare138 6y ago
        But at what point does turning a bling eye become complicity? I could maybe understand if we were talking about a small US company that unknowingly contracted out to a sketchy overseas contractor but I have a hard time believing one of the most highly valued and profitable US tech companies like Apple doesn't have direct knowledge of it's own supply chain.
        tedk-42 6y ago
        They likely do but to what detail? Should they have a line-by-line item of each employee being paid into their bank account each week? Apple can only give guidelines and draw contractual terms. If a supplier is in breach then Apple can go ahead and break the contract and that supplier would lose out on a lot more than just the contract (as is the case here). But to hold Apple accountable for the actions of this company (and it may have only been the finance team being pushed by say, a CFO to show profitability for a quarter before a promotion or something) seems out-of-the-ordinary and unreasonable. They're an easy target but you have to put the bias aside with Apple.
- sirius87 6y ago
  "Apple says preliminary findings show a violation of supplier code of conduct. Wistron had payment delays for some workers" [1] "Wistron says the company is 'removing' vice president who oversees India business. Co also sets up a 24-hr grievance hotline." [2] Makes we wonder how many other such contractors exist and whether Apple blissfully ignores enforcement, oversight of its PR-friendly supplier CoC. [1] https://twitter.com/CNBCTV18Live/status/1340234632504205314 https://twitter.com/CNBCTV18Live/status/1340234632504205314 [2] https://twitter.com/CNBCTV18Live/status/1340217073763434496 https://twitter.com/CNBCTV18Live/status/1340217073763434496
ACAVJW4H 6y ago
Louis Rossmann has an excellent rant on the subject https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeEERdbfH0c&t=828s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeEERdbfH0c&t=828s The hypocrisy is unacceptable.
- mehrdadn 6y ago
  Yes! Also watch the follow-up after: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjM6Wp11a00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjM6Wp11a00
akudha 6y ago
8000 rupees per month, in Bangalore! At 160 hours, it comes to 5 rupees an hour. You can’t get even half a cup of tea for 5 bucks. This is the very definition of exploitation. These are people working for the richest company on the planet, by proxy :( This is just depressing Edit: it is 50 rupees per hour, not 5 (I need coffee). Leaving the error as is in the comment above. The larger point still stands though
- netsharc 6y ago
  I said sardonically to a friend that with a strong authoritarian state, the protests don't occur or don't make the news, so thank you police state for our cheap gadgets. And yeah, our consumerist mindset traps us too: if faced with 2 phones of similar capabilities, 1 costs 500, 1 costs 200, which would you pick? (Even the more expensive product doesn't mean better working conditions for the factory workers, just for the Silicon Valley bug coders) Talking about exploitation, imagine condition of the miners of the minerals needed for the phones..
  - Learning2-2 6y ago
    On cue China made a remark after the protest in India that these protests like these would not occur in Chinese factories...
    - redis_mlc 6y ago
      Yeah, it's hard to protest after being a double-lung transplant donor.
    - yorwba 6y ago
      That's not entirely true. The China Labor Bulletin catalogs a few hundred strikes a year, some of which turn violent, and I guess there are many that even they don't hear about: https://maps.clb.org.hk/?i18n_language=en_US&map=1&startDate=2020-06&endDate=2020-12&eventId=&keyword=&address=&industry=&parentIndustry=&industryName=%5Bobject%20HTMLInputElement%5D https://maps.clb.org.hk/?i18n_language=en_US&map=1&startDate... E.g. yesterday "Workers protest against wage arrears of an electronic factory after managers fled, in Yancheng, Jiangsu" https://maps.clb.org.hk/?i18n_language=en_US&map=1&startDate=2020-12&endDate=2020-12&eventId=2020122117142092977&industryName=%5Bobject%20HTMLInputElement%5D https://maps.clb.org.hk/?i18n_language=en_US&map=1&startDate... The Chinese government likes to pretend that they're in control of everything and Western media doesn't tend to question that. But authoritarian crackdowns are not a surefire tactic to prevent all protests, they can just reduce their frequency (maybe).
mehrdadn 6y ago
For comparison (note $6.80/month = $81.60/year): https://www.historyextra.com/period/slave-labour/ https://www.historyextra.com/period/slave-labour/ > Self-hire _slaves_ could command between $100 a year (for unskilled labour in the early 19th century) to as much as $500 (for skilled work in the Lower South in the late 1850s). Also, as a reminder from 2013, this is far from a first for Apple: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/05/woman-nearly-died-making-ipad https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/05/woman-...
- bserge 6y ago
  Does that account for inflation? Because I believe you could buy way more for $100 in the early 19th century...
  - mehrdadn 6y ago
    Believe it or not, it appears to have NOT been adjusted for inflation. (So, multiply it by 15x.) See the $249.60 per year figure here and the following paragraph. http://lestweforget.hamptonu.edu/page.cfm?uuid=9FEC4E79-B361-4EEE-E0FADE75507425B7 http://lestweforget.hamptonu.edu/page.cfm?uuid=9FEC4E79-B361...
    - srtjstjsj 6y ago
      adjusting for inflation is also adjusting for purchasing power, so the old numbers might be a better reference point for low Cost of Living in India
- incrudible 6y ago
  I find all these slavery comparisons in poor taste. Across history you will find slaves that were treated well, accumulated wealth, were educated and held in high regard - yet they still legally were the property of another person. The fundamental distinction with slavery is not a bad paycheck. In this case, the distinction wasn't a bad paycheck either. The compensation was fine on paper, it just wasn't actually paid out, which is plain fraud. If the response of these workers is to ransack the place, that just tells you how bad/corrupt the legal system must be.
EdwinLarkin 6y ago
Taiwan Wistron, Taiwan Foxconn. It does not matter whether it's a communist China or democratic Taiwan it's all the same just to squeeze some dollars at the expense of human lives. Is it so hard to pay reasonable wages even for low skilled labor in a 3rd world country? Sadly there's no real alternative other than not buying anything from anyone.
- MangoCoffee 6y ago
  its no secret those electronic contractors make very little. i read an article a couple years ago that say Foxconn make $3 per iphone. how much do you think that $3 get pass to the workers? while Apple pocketed in almost the entire profit. its not just Apple. Dell is the same as well. why do you think they keep contracted to Wistron and Foxconn?
  - EdwinLarkin 6y ago
    I understand the business model of these companies. Really. I dont blame Apple or Foxconn or whoever that tries to squeeze as much as they can. But we (as the western civilization) can make deals with most of these countries and set basic standards and minimum wage requirements that is both beneficial to them and to us. I dont want western workers try to compete with cheap labor from India or Vietnam but at the same time I dont want these people be exploited as much as they are now. They can make a decent wage based on the economy of their country and still be treated like humans.
- bserge 6y ago
  The same thing happens in 1st world countries, as well. If they can get away with it, they'll do it.
bzb6 6y ago
India wanted phones to be produced locally, so they got what they asked for
newbie578 6y ago
Something like this is simply unacceptable. Why is there no public outrage towards Apple? We are all so willing to publicly denounce Nike, Nestle and co., yet no one wants to raise a word against Apple?
- mschuster91 6y ago
  > Why is there no public outrage towards Apple? This may be because of the 250 million strong general strike and the farmer strike that has hit India in the last weeks (https://www.deccanherald.com/national/at-least-25-crore-workers-participated-in-general-strike-some-states-saw-complete-shutdown-trade-unions-920200.html https://www.deccanherald.com/national/at-least-25-crore-work...). There has been almost zero reporting in Western media about that one, the only thing that drew a tiny bit of attention were the Apple riots. Under normal circumstances I guess there would be many reports about what's going on, but media conglomerates don't want to give the population the idea that general strikes and riots work. We need decoupling of media ownership and society's rich/elites, fast.
  - gruez 6y ago
    AFAIK the 250 million figure is a very generous estimate given by the labor groups. 250 million works out to around half of india's workforce. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and we haven't seen that so far. Yes, it's possible that the elites are suppressing the news and the lack of them is only more proof of their involvement, but that goes into conspiracy territory.
- foxfoxfox 6y ago
  It’s pointless. The only thing that can fix this problem is governments. They have the power to crack down on these manufacturing companies and actually put a stop to it. Tweeting about it won’t do a thing. Buying an alternative brand phone won’t do a thing either because they all come from the same places. This wasn’t an Apple factory, it was just a generic electronics factory that probably produces a large chunk of the stuff you have regardless of brand.
  - 6y ago
casi 6y ago
Links to The Times of India article: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bengaluru/violence-breaks-out-at-wistron-corps-iphone-manufacturing-plant-near-bengaluru/articleshow/79691511.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bengaluru/violence-... Good on them. Smash it up, make noise and don't let Apple ignore this. No doubt they respond with the usual "When we worked with factories promising us cheap labour and massive profit we didn't realise people and the planet would be exploited. No one could have known".
- PedroBatista 6y ago
  Well, Apple doesn’t include chargers on their new iPhones to protect the planet and their keynotes are feel-good orgy of virtuosity. Hard to believe they exploit people...
  - arethuza 6y ago
    Is that new, I got a new iPhone in July and it came with a charger?
    - foxfoxfox 6y ago
      It’s the 12 that doesn’t. The logic being that everyone already has a draw full of chargers and cables so it makes sense to remove the brick from the packaging which slims it down and reduces waste.
      - MaxikCZ 6y ago
        Dont forget the 12 is first iPhone supporting fast charging, which none of the previous iPhone chargers supports. So if you want to utilize its full potential, you need to spend bucks.
        gambiting 6y ago
        Wait, that's absolutely not true. IPhone 8[0] was the first one that supported fast charging, and it didn't come with a compatible charger in the box. You had to use an 18W USB-C charger and a USB-C to lighting cable, neither of which were in the box. But the phone supported it. So the same argument was true for years and yet people behave as if it's new. [0] https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT208137#:~:text=You%20can%20fast%20charge%20your,battery%20in%20around%2030%20minutes.&text=Fast%20charging%20works%20when%20you,96W%20USB-C%20Power%20Adapter https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT208137#:~:text=You%20can%2...
klunger 6y ago
Good for them. It's time for workers stand up for themselves again. I hope the authorities there do an audit to see where all those stolen wages have gone and recover them.
scns 6y ago
You can get a Fairphone 3+ coming with a degoogled Android here: https://esolutions.shop/shop/e-os-fairphone-3-plus/ https://esolutions.shop/shop/e-os-fairphone-3-plus/
- fakedang 6y ago
  That phone looks exceptionally ugly. I'd rather get a Pine Phone.
  - SyzygistSix 6y ago
    As someone who remembers what the time before cell phones was like, having a hand held pocket phone is still miraculous. A slightly less aesthetically pleasing phone is not a big deal when it reduces the true ugliness in the production chain. That said, I'm also trying to decide between a Fairphone or a Linux phone. There are options. Kind of sad these companies are struggling to stay in business rather than struggling to keep up with demand.
    - fakedang 6y ago
      Unfortunately that's not how most consumers think. As far as phone manufacturing goes, anything that involves electronics will inevitably cause pollution in its life cycle. Even if you're creating the most eco-friendly product, no one will want to use it unless it looks pleasing too. The Pine Phone is that, Virtu is that, but the Fairphone isn't. Even then, Pine Phone and Virtu (maybe not so much) have an uphill battle.
- cbozeman 6y ago
  I was under the impression Fairphones don't work in America?
- boudin 6y ago
  The phone itself is available on Fairphone directly: https://www.fairphone.com/en/ https://www.fairphone.com/en/ It's a really interesting to read some of their blog posts and see their journey. It does prove that trying to do things in a better way in electronics is possible and that companies that have much more money than them have absolutly no excuse not to follow the same path.
bobkrusty 6y ago
Apple should pays the workers Bad CEO We know theres corona But da company already rich even before der corona
- foxfoxfox 6y ago
  They aren’t apple employees we don’t even know if these workers were working on apple products. They are Wistron employees, a company that works on everything from TVs to IoT devices. We just know that the factory was contracted to produce the iPhone SE 2 for Indian customers and that Apple did pay fairly and some management level at wistron pocketed it instead of paying the workers.
  - tremon 6y ago
    They are still Apple employees, just not on the books. This isn't any different from tax evasion through different shell companies across the world: these workers spend 100% of their labour producing things that Apple subsequently sells at gross markup, so for all intents and purposes -- they are Apple employees, just not according to the law.
  - ficklepickle 6y ago
    These structures exist so corps can engage in slavery without harming their brand. They use contactors that they pay so little, they know the working conditions will be terrible. It's a win-win for Apple, more $ and they don't tarnish their brand. When there is media like this, they blame the contractor and keep doing the same things. This is absolutely how MBAs think. I had to misfortune of attending business school.
traveler01 6y ago
This coming from a company that charges 1000$+ for their devices is discusting...
- coldcode 6y ago
  Bullshit. Every single company in the US buys stuff from companies from foreign countries who promise to deliver things under contract. This is not an Apple owned company, or an Apple problem, or a U.S. problem, but a problem at a company in India (I believe owned by someone in Taiwan). Do you know who made the shirt you are wearing, the product you just bought from Amazon, who picked the grapes you have in your kitchen and who is reading your prescriptions, or how your company's security software supplier builds their software? No? Then you are no different than Apple, who at least tries to keep up with 1000's of suppliers and their treatment of employees. And sometimes those companies are determined to screw their employees over and cover it up. It happens in farmer's fields, giant suppliers or government agencies. Having fake outrage over someone else's occasional failure but ignoring your own. Are you eating food picked by some exploited farmhand? Wearing a cheap shirt made by a prisoner in some labor camp? Ordering some cheap crap on Amazon stolen from a real business? But sure blame Apple for missing the boat.
  - traveler01 6y ago
    Yes, I do realise that happens with lots of bussinesses and Apple isn't the only one doing it. But let's be honest, the richest company in the world should be the example to follow in a good way.
  - mehrdadn 6y ago
    > Do you know who made the shirt you are wearing? No? Then you are no different than Apple Apple has a $2T worth to tap for investigating this, and I don't, unfortunately.
  - JacobSuperslav 6y ago
    this is an example of ultimate centrism. nothing would ever change if people made arguments like these.
teatree 6y ago
The next time you buy an apple product, keep this in mind. Along with that shiny new phone comes curse of thousands of poor people. We are up in arms about climate change with govt, but when a TRILLION dollar private company screws people over - not a word. Wait in line to buy their products. Its hard not to think that most Americans still prefer and like slavery. Just that a few black people managed to escape the publicly acceptable version of it.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  Don’t worry, though. It’s just Apple. /s
  - foxfoxfox 6y ago
    All the other countless brands of product manufactured in that same factory are good to buy
- swebs 6y ago
  If you don't want to be a hypocrite, you should also keep this in mind when buying from any company that partners with Wistron. Though it seems difficult to find a full list of partners. >Within 16 months Wistron was making Dell handhelds and Microsoft's Xbox videogame consoles, according to industry reports. (Wistron doesn't identify its customers.) https://archive.is/qxS5s https://archive.is/qxS5s
  - csharptwdec19 6y ago
    Wistron is the result of Acer spinning off a bunch of their brands in the late 90s. I remember slinging AOpen (Another Acer spinoff) motherboards and shortly after Acer spun off Wistron, AOpen started offering laptops from Wistron. Dell shortly thereafter offered same/similar models. They weren't very good; while thankfully my laptop was not a victim of the capacitor plague, they had some really bad design around the power port; over time just normal insert cycles would cause the connector to get loose and short in various ways. At one point I would have to 'shim' the plug in with paper to make sure that the contacts were well connected. The problem surfaced after a year, and after a factory repair, I got another year before the problem came back. Thankfully the real fix was to use a better 'plug', one that had a threaded base (i.e. a threaded hole goes through the plastic, a 'cap' holds it in place).
ameen 6y ago
These companies that proselytize fairness and social justice are the ones that seek to keep modern slavery intact: https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-coca-cola-nike-lobbying-on-china-forced-labor-bill-in-congress/ https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-coca-cola-nike-lobbying-on-c... Imagine wanting to profit from forced labor. Disgusting
- antihero 6y ago
  There is no ethical consumption under capitalism.
eunos 6y ago
Almost everybody here focuses on Apple instead on the Wistron. Having said that I am more inclined that the fault lies on the local managements and myriad of subcontracting companies or even third-party payroll and HR systems.
- foxfoxfox 6y ago
  It’s kind of hard to know what is going on from an outsiders perspective. Maybe Apple could have or should have known about this before, maybe they did already know, maybe they did everything they realistically could and were deceived. One thing is certain, this problem isn’t specific to Apple. The whole electronics manufacturing industry is rotten and the only ones capable of fixing it are the governments of these counties. Wistron should be crushed for this wage theft and serve as a warning for other companies.
  - csharptwdec19 6y ago
    If it is anything like the Cable TV Industry, Apple absolutely knows and is in on the game. I've noticed a pattern where large companies use a -lot- of contractors, sometimes under many layers. When I worked in Telecom, we were usually the contractor for Comcast, but sometimes there was another contractor above us and we were the 'sub-contractor'. But then, below us, were often 1 or 2 more layers of subcontractors. 1/3 of the time we had decent contractors and scope of work and everything worked out. The other 2/3 of the time, it would be one or more of the following: - The contractor mis-bid the project in a way that would lead them to go bankrupt in a year or two - The contractor did a cut-rate job to maximize their profits. - The deadlines or work rate were unreasonable and led to mistakes. But, the important thing about all of this, is that the number of layers involved in the transaction lets everyone point the finger at each other and never point out that maybe it's the system itself that is broken.
- notahacker 6y ago
  The fault lies with decisions taken by Wistron [local] management, but the incentives to ensure similar decisions aren't taken in future depend on decisions taken by Apple.
jaimex2 6y ago
Apple is a disgusting company.
NullPrefix 6y ago
iPhones are the new blood diamonds. Digging in The Dirt [0] published by Harvard Law School states that daily wages for child miners in Sierra Leone range from US$0.15 to US$0.60 . 0: http://hrp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Digging_In_The_DirtLR.pdf http://hrp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Diggin...
NicoJuicy 6y ago
For comparison. 1 Iphone with full options would be >200 workers for a month.
joshxyz 6y ago
Man this is some not-so-good effect of globalization, how come those factory workers are okay with these?
- JacobSuperslav 6y ago
  because there's a limited supply of jobs
ilaksh 6y ago
One issue that always occurs to me in these situations is the intense research into automation and robotics. Obviously replacing these workers is not feasible now, but it seems like we should anticipate much more capable robots as the research progresses. That will increase the problems that labour has dramatically. Check out https://marshallbrain.com/robotic-nation https://marshallbrain.com/robotic-nation
roenxi 6y ago
Many of the comments, at the time of posting, aren't really grappling with what the article says. It is about a company called Wistron, not a company called Apple. I would challenge the idea that Apple is doing something wrong in this given what I now about most of the supply chains producing goods in the advanced economies - everyone down to the consumer buys from the cheapest supplier. Apple is not fundamentally responsible for the labour relations of other companies, and this is a practice that literally everyone I know has engaged in to some degree. "Sweatshop labour" producing clothes isn't very concealing as euphemisms go. It is far more worrying that Apple does business in China period than that Apple has dodgy subcontractor arrangements in India. India is a democracy, they'll sort this stuff out in time. There is also no need to express outrage on this one. Promising to pay one amount and then not paying it is an unpardonable sin in pretty much every value system anyone cares to name. Comparisons to slavery, however, are missing the point. This is fraud. Assuming an accurate article this is one of the few times that smashing someone else's stuff is justified.
- aarong11 6y ago
  Are comparisons to slavery missing the point? I understand that companies are always going to go for the lowest bidder, but if the lowest bidder was mistreating it's workers and they know about it then it's socially irresponsible. Companies like Apple have plausible deniability when it comes to things like this. That's one of the major reasons they outsource rather than building their own factory. Apple is built on vertical integration.
- mehrdadn 6y ago
  > Apple is not fundamentally responsible for the labour relations of other companies It's a funny world where everyday individual customers barely making a living are supposed to unite, educate themselves on the supply chains of everything they see on the market, and vote with their wallets to filter out unethically-produced products, but a single $2 trillion tech corporation ("person"?) who's a customer of another company with all the leverage in the world isn't responsible for caring if it's reaching the $2T market cap ethically.
- tomcam 6y ago
  Apple lectures me on all kinds of things, from climate change to political correctness. Just give me a fucking device and stay out of my politics. They have earned the outrage.
mabbo 6y ago
We moved manufacturing out of the west because wow, other countries could do it so cheaply. It never occurred to us to ask how they would achieve that. (Or perhaps some of us already knew). What good is ending slavery here if we're still receiving the benefits of effective slavery taking place there? Did we win some moral victory by not doing it within sight of our citizens? Companies that manufacture elsewhere but sell here should need to prove that the people who made their products did so ethically. Clearly, we can't take that for granted.
- throw_m239339 6y ago
  We just outsourced slavery and it makes us a bunch of hypocrites yes each time we use "human rights" to chastise countries in the south. Our politicians are fully aware of this exploitation dynamics and legal arbitrages they engineered. The stupidest thing is that despite getting our stuff from slaves by the very definition of that word, our stuff ain't cheap at all, especially Apple which are luxury goods, it's just Apple making crazy margins. Apple could produce all their stuff in the West they would still be filthy rich. But it's not as profitable. But hey, 'carbon neutral','diverse and inclusive' or something, it makes yuppies in California feel good about themselves...
- christophilus 6y ago
  My dad was in US manufacturing his entire career. He retired at a pretty high position and was largely responsible for keeping that manufacturing from going overseas. He said by far his biggest difficulty was that he had to pay a living wage, conform to rigorous environmental standards, and worry about pesky things like people losing hands or digits, where none of his competitors had any of those concerns. We’ve passed much needed internal regulation without requiring the same standards from importers. This is one of the reasons the blue collar middle class has vanished here, and it’s a real shame.
- bagacrap 6y ago
  Yet many folks would call you racist or xenophobic for speaking out against globalization.
- bondarchuk 6y ago
iamsb 6y ago
It is sad that Indian state is not able to monopolies violence. For too many violent protests, incidents are not good for the country.
- fakedang 6y ago
  This has got to be the most desensitized comment I've read on HN till now.
  - iamsb 6y ago
    Might want to educate yourself on what it means for a state to monopolies violence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence
    - fakedang 6y ago
      I know what a state monopoly on violence means. The fact that you care about "India's image" as a business attraction rather than the plight of those workers who were paid a measly 7$ a month was what I was talking about.
      - iamsb 6y ago
        1. India's image is what enhances its chances of gaining more business which improves livelihood of everyone. 2. Monopoly of violence requires working justice system where civil and criminal matters can be resolved. Ignorance is not a bliss.
anon20201221 6y ago
It's been my understanding that many Indians took a 30% paycut due to the covid related hit on the economy. It seems like paycuts without cutting jobs seems to work better in Indian corporate culture as opposed to USA where companies will just cut the jobs entirely. The first pay cut seems to reflect that and isn't surprising. The next pay cut is surprising - the economy in India has been on recovery and global demand for Apple devices is not an issue. I'd keep eyes on the local company executives, many of whom probably walked away with large Diwali bonuses thinking they are kings for bringing Apple manufacturing to the area. They're the ones to blame for not bringing on more HR resources. Why yes, Apple does have responsibility for vetting suppliers, this specific factory seems to have gone sour very recently and the workers didn't let them get away with it. Apple seems to have acted appropriately with a probation and the local/national governments of India are also responding in a positive manner I believe will create stronger policies supporting tech manufacturing that properly care for staff and corporate oversight needs. I believe there will be closer eyes on the BMW driving corporate staff who hopefully will not continue behaving like kings.
- mgkimsal 6y ago
  > paycuts without cutting jobs seems to work better in Indian corporate culture as opposed to USA Most of the folks I know who've had jobs affected by this had a mix. Some people were laid off, some had hours cut, some had pay cut - sometimes at the same company (different workers affected differently). I don't think there's an across the board "one approach fits all" that companies have taken in the US.
  - cosmiccatnap 6y ago
    I'm pretty sure a pay cut is in direct violation of contracts with the company. If the shoe were on the other foot and you owed the company I doubt it would go over so well. We need to ensure that these companies hold up their end of the deal even if they go under, nothing should be too big to fail
Jipazgqmnm 6y ago
Let's all pretend a round of surprise. How could this happend? A company with a track record of pure labour friendliness. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CINZhtB2aHU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CINZhtB2aHU
forgingahead 6y ago
This is a supplier of Apple, a two TRILLION dollar megacorp by marketcap, which had 11 billion in profit. I'm as capitalist as the next guy, but this is just shameful.
- jansan 6y ago
  Making this public and being outraged is important to make capitalism work.
jansan 6y ago
If I stood in front of an Apple store holding a sign that says "Note that workers in India's iPhone factories are paid less than 7$ PER MONTH!", would I be labeled a terrorist?
- Minor49er 6y ago
  Why a terrorist?
- 42_ 6y ago
  The answer depends on the country in which you plan to hold that sign ;)
arvindamirtaa 6y ago
Apple wants a piece of the pie from EVERYONE downstream. They'll go to great lengths to make sure they're always at the door, collecting. They can very well deal with and clean up the mess anyone makes upstream. "Apple and <some supplier that almost exclusively supplies to Apple> are not the same" line is pretty much trolling at this point.
- lorenzhs 6y ago
  Wistron isn't "some supplier that almost exclusively supplies to Apple". They also manufacture electronics for Microsoft, Dell, Lenovo, Motorola. Originally, they were Acer's production arm. Lots of things about how workers in the supply chain are treated is very wrong, but if you accuse others of trolling, you'd better get your facts straight.
  - hu3 6y ago
    Is Apple forced to use Wistron? No? Then sorry but this is on Apple. And I doubt anything will change.
itsthefnlacctdn 6y ago
A factory strictly used for making Iphones, I see no reason for Apple to get any blame here, they obviously cant keep track of this huge outsource company that makes too many other electronics. (do I get a check from Apple here or is it an outsource company that pays the shills as well?)
transfire 6y ago
Until the true Robot Revolution arrives there will be slavery, guised in wage labour or otherwise.
- throw_m239339 6y ago
  It's like that fantasy about Uber and self driving cars. Exploiting humans will always be cheaper than maintaining robots in places where human life has very little value.
npiit 6y ago
That's how you make 40% profit margin boys on 250 billion dollars a year, boys. Overpriced products, underpraid foreign workrs, and most important of all, brainwashing users on a global scale by selling technically inferior products as luxury. That's why Apple is the holy grail of investors and entrepreneurs. Let's get back to talk more about the fake benchmarks of M1.
brainless 6y ago
I know this wage sounds alien to many. I wholeheartedly disagree with Apple's wages but for context, Rs 50 - 80 is the price of a full, though street food, meal in many Indian cities. India simply has cheap food and low costs. I know this personally as I live a fairly low-expense life. But I can not imagine a big co paying these ridiculously low wages. This is exactly why rich get and stay richer. Apple has the means to push partners to keep paying low. Apple knows what it is doing.
- goda90 6y ago
  So $7/month is about ten meals a month then. Sounds like it's not a living wage to me.
- JacobSuperslav 6y ago
  try paying rent, buying medicine for your kids, books, etc. good luck
- manquer 6y ago
  The factory is located near Bangalore. I would challenge you to survive on even double that salary in Bangalore. Also it is not just low pay. Even that has not been paid on time
tinus_hn 6y ago
Before blaming Apple the important question is what is Apple paying? Are they paying $7 and ripping off the employees? Or are they paying $100 and Wistron is ripping off Apple?
- NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
  Apple is certainly not paying by the hour. I would expect this to be a volume-based contract.
- gimmeThaBeet 6y ago
  That's the question I would have too. I assume apple pays for devices, not necessarily time. Which means that we see the results, what motivated it, but we don't know what apple paid for. People can be mad at apple for not having enough scrutiny into their supply chain. From similar articles, it seems foxconn doesn't pay very well, but it seems to match the promised levels here. Now I don't know what cost of living is between those parts of China and India, so that's a big caveat. But it sort of torpedoes the outrage to me if the failure mode isn't actually known. You can lament the salaries, but the fact is we don't know what apple was paying for or what wistron's operations were. We just know there were riots.
mehrdadn 6y ago
Off-topic question: Has this story gotten permanently capped to rank #10 on the front page somehow? If so, why? As of this writing, it has far more points than any higher story on the front page (this is at 168 points, whereas the next-highest one is at 121 points [1]), and some of those were posted hours earlier than this one. (e.g. [2] is at 45 points and posted 5 hours ago, whereas this story is at 168 points posted 3 hours ago.) I'm asking because I'm pretty darn upset by this news and I care that people actually see it. So this apparent (artificial?) deranking is very much bothering me. What is the basis for it? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25492406 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25492406 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25485541 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25485541
- jagged-chisel 6y ago
  The formula involves time, votes, and the 'busy-ness' of the comments. And, IIRC, the time component is tuned to prevent a story from being on the front page (and continuing to displace other stories) for a very long time. It certainly has no concept of moral outrage. If admins think a story is worthy (and I suppose if enough folks contacted them expressing this viewpoint), they can certainly make adjustments to keep it around a bit longer.
  - mehrdadn 6y ago
    The time and votes don't explain this, and "more comments = bad" doesn't either. Because [1] has 27 points with 8 comments from 3 hours ago, whereas [2] has 28 points with 7 comments from 1 hour ago, and yet [1] is ranked #8 and [2] is ranked #13. I don't see how any of those explain this. AFAIK this story never went above ~#10 either, so it's not like it's been hanging around forever. It really looks like something/someone has been either artificially boosting other stories or artificially penalizing this one to prevent it from going near the top. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25494109 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25494109 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25493495 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25493495
    - jagged-chisel 6y ago
absolutelyrad 6y ago
Apple is a labor exploitation company.
throwaway4good 6y ago
According to this Wistron has been producing for Apple in India for 4 years. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-india-wistron-idUSKBN28O0C7 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-india-wistron-idUSK... "Wistron has been making iPhones in India for nearly four years and its operation has been seen as a success story for Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s government that is looking to boost manufacturing."
02020202 6y ago
ivory tower much?
Simulacra 6y ago
It's interesting that the workers in India are able to do this at all. Had they been in China, I imagine the repercussions would be far more lethal.
campl3r 6y ago
How is this an Apple problem?
cronix 6y ago
What do you expect from a company that actually lobbies for slave labor? Hey, anything to keep that stock price up is a small price to pay, eh? > Apple wants to water down key provisions of the bill, which would hold U.S. companies accountable for using Uighur forced labor, according to two congressional staffers https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/11/20/apple-uighur/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/11/20/apple-u...
- mercutio2 6y ago
  As has been widely reported, this unsourced suggestion that Apple wanted to water down the bill was denied emphatically by everyone involved.
FriedrichN 6y ago
Apple isn't the only one doing this, but Apple is the company who makes 'think different' posters with Nelson Mandela, the Dalai Lama, Ghandi, etc. on them. That, to me, makes it extra disgusting. It tries to sell itself as some company that is somehow different and not 'evil' and 'corporate' like all the others.
amelius 6y ago
The "i" in "iPhone" is for ill-treatment.
psim1 6y ago
The title is unfortunately incorrect, changed by the submitter for larger impact. According to the article, some people were hired for $100/mo., and some people received $7/mo. - not the same people. edit: title has been subsequently changed. Thanks mods!
ComodoHacker 6y ago
With Apple's margins they could easily afford to do all payroll themselves in the US, if their partners are not trustworthy enough. They could also hire undercover agents to monitor the situation. Heck, they could even help organize and sponsor a union!
mensetmanusman 6y ago
The massive profit margin of the iPhone makes situations like this sad. What is also sad is the misery that these people experience even assuming Apple didn’t exist in the world. No one argues that capitalism hasn’t been amazingly effective at bringing people out of abject poverty. The next jump in quality of life is less clear...
swebs 6y ago
For anyone who wants to put their money where their mouth is, you can buy a Librem 5 USA edition, which is fully made in the USA and costs $2000. (For comparison, the third-world labor edition costs $800) https://puri.sm/products/librem-5-usa/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-5-usa/
- Torwald 6y ago
  > For anyone who wants to put their money where their mouth is Hahaha, no, this is just an opportunity to bash Apple, no need to actually do something about it. Anyway. This looks very interesting, thanks for linking. Can you tell me on the spot (if you have to look it up, I'll do it myself…), if there is an easy way to run Org-mode and sync my Org-mode files from a Mac?
- 0xffff2 6y ago
  It's certainly better than nothing, but the number of caveats in their language shows just how hard it is to accomplish. "All the electronics will be made in our USA facility" they say, but I wonder how many components are made in the US? It sounds like it's mostly PCB soldering and assembly that are done in the US. "Fully made in the USA" is an almost fractal claim that can't be literally true unless all raw materials were mined in the US, but even without demanding that level of depth I think calling this "fully made" in the US is a stretch.
merricksb 6y ago
Earlier discussions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25402999 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25402999 (90 points/117 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25408188 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25408188 (27 points/20 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25411526 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25411526 (125 points/15 comments)
Existenceblinks 6y ago
> but India is an extremely competitive This is awful alternative to saying "extremely cheap labour"
fionic 6y ago
I can’t see what this has to do with Apple yet, other than Apple has hired them to contract out some of their work. Is Apple in charge of what all these Winstron employees get paid or do they interface with leaders of Wonstron who then turn around and write paychecks?
- bredren 6y ago
  Apple has a strict set of supplier responsibility standards [1], but is even more strict in controlling PR and the Apple brand. So even if the conditions that led to this destruction were not within existing guidelines, I would imagine reporting or accounting audit requirements will become more strict as a result of this. [1] https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/ https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/
yalogin 6y ago
As much as I sympathize with the workers, this situation is unavoidable for a company the size of apple. People here also assume that just because Apple is a giant they must be trying to exploit. Just because it hurts our sensibilities doesn't make it apple's problem. This could very well be the country's issues with labor and how they deal with it. We should at least be glad that they are rioting and causing a ruckus. If this were China they would be suppressed a long time ago.
- iso1210 6y ago
  Has Apple withdrawn business from this company?
powerapple 6y ago
If the factory is not paying workers, it would be illegal in many countries, I hope it is the same in India, shouldn't the government and court deal with it?
naruvimama 6y ago
Wow, the comments are eye opening. China has "exported" communism to the rest of the world and has become capitalistic itself.
6510 6y ago
Other reports mention 60 m in damages and that the 6.80 USD per month for some was a 95% [gradual] decrease in salary. Imagine living on 1 USD per day. Now imagine living on much much less? I read some excuses from people how Apple didn't know but they are not the only manufacturer (or brand) in the world using cheap labor. Plenty don't monitor work conditions but others (usually more fancy brands) keep a close eye on things. Last time people got rid of slavery by not buying the products. You chose who you are.
togs 6y ago
We don't live in a fair world. Those who have power rule over those who do not. Nobody wants a fair world, anyway. We love the thrill over overcoming the odds.

458 points by dataflow 6y ago

Apple says it is investigating the company to see if Wistron violated Apple's supplier guidelines but in the meantime here's our new $849 iPhone 12.

MangoCoffee 6y ago
Apple itself pay their contractors shit. Apple investigating? give me a break! i used to work at a Dell repair depot. Dell contracted out to make repair for their stuffs. Dell pay the contractor shit and that in turn make their contractor pay their employees shit. i work in the IT dept of repair depot so my salary isn't like the front line workers. believe me when i said company like Apple, Dell, HP...etc. use contractor like Wistron is because they can pay as little as possible and pocket in as much as they can. Apple doesn't care about the working people.
- tsjq 6y ago
  MBAs see these all as cost centers. So, they will spend lower and lower money on these departments. To them, only sales/marketing are profit centers, and will keep funding those departments for ever
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
finger 6y ago
> NEW DELHI/BENGALURU (Reuters) -Apple Inc has placed supplier Wistron Corp on probation, saying on Saturday it would not award the Taiwanese contract manufacturer new business until it addressed the way workers were treated at its southern India plant. https://www.reuters.com/article/apple-india-idUSKBN28T0DW https://www.reuters.com/article/apple-india-idUSKBN28T0DW
- ilaksh 6y ago
  Does that include actually paying them what they owe?
  - tedk-42 6y ago
    Apple paying their contractor's employees? That's not how business works. I'm on the side of the workers. Their treatment is dogshit. The target should be placed squarely on the taiwanese company however, not Apple. Apple should have a higher standard, but they can only apologise for the actions of their contractor. If they did that it would make no sense business wise
    - weare138 6y ago
      But at what point does turning a bling eye become complicity? I could maybe understand if we were talking about a small US company that unknowingly contracted out to a sketchy overseas contractor but I have a hard time believing one of the most highly valued and profitable US tech companies like Apple doesn't have direct knowledge of it's own supply chain.
      - tedk-42 6y ago
        They likely do but to what detail? Should they have a line-by-line item of each employee being paid into their bank account each week? Apple can only give guidelines and draw contractual terms. If a supplier is in breach then Apple can go ahead and break the contract and that supplier would lose out on a lot more than just the contract (as is the case here). But to hold Apple accountable for the actions of this company (and it may have only been the finance team being pushed by say, a CFO to show profitability for a quarter before a promotion or something) seems out-of-the-ordinary and unreasonable. They're an easy target but you have to put the bias aside with Apple.
sirius87 6y ago
"Apple says preliminary findings show a violation of supplier code of conduct. Wistron had payment delays for some workers" [1] "Wistron says the company is 'removing' vice president who oversees India business. Co also sets up a 24-hr grievance hotline." [2] Makes we wonder how many other such contractors exist and whether Apple blissfully ignores enforcement, oversight of its PR-friendly supplier CoC. [1] https://twitter.com/CNBCTV18Live/status/1340234632504205314 https://twitter.com/CNBCTV18Live/status/1340234632504205314 [2] https://twitter.com/CNBCTV18Live/status/1340217073763434496 https://twitter.com/CNBCTV18Live/status/1340217073763434496

ACAVJW4H 6y ago

Louis Rossmann has an excellent rant on the subject https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeEERdbfH0c&t=828s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeEERdbfH0c&t=828s The hypocrisy is unacceptable.

mehrdadn 6y ago
Yes! Also watch the follow-up after: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjM6Wp11a00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjM6Wp11a00

akudha 6y ago

8000 rupees per month, in Bangalore! At 160 hours, it comes to 5 rupees an hour. You can’t get even half a cup of tea for 5 bucks. This is the very definition of exploitation. These are people working for the richest company on the planet, by proxy :( This is just depressing Edit: it is 50 rupees per hour, not 5 (I need coffee). Leaving the error as is in the comment above. The larger point still stands though

netsharc 6y ago
I said sardonically to a friend that with a strong authoritarian state, the protests don't occur or don't make the news, so thank you police state for our cheap gadgets. And yeah, our consumerist mindset traps us too: if faced with 2 phones of similar capabilities, 1 costs 500, 1 costs 200, which would you pick? (Even the more expensive product doesn't mean better working conditions for the factory workers, just for the Silicon Valley bug coders) Talking about exploitation, imagine condition of the miners of the minerals needed for the phones..
- Learning2-2 6y ago
  On cue China made a remark after the protest in India that these protests like these would not occur in Chinese factories...
  - redis_mlc 6y ago
    Yeah, it's hard to protest after being a double-lung transplant donor.
  - yorwba 6y ago
    That's not entirely true. The China Labor Bulletin catalogs a few hundred strikes a year, some of which turn violent, and I guess there are many that even they don't hear about: https://maps.clb.org.hk/?i18n_language=en_US&map=1&startDate=2020-06&endDate=2020-12&eventId=&keyword=&address=&industry=&parentIndustry=&industryName=%5Bobject%20HTMLInputElement%5D https://maps.clb.org.hk/?i18n_language=en_US&map=1&startDate... E.g. yesterday "Workers protest against wage arrears of an electronic factory after managers fled, in Yancheng, Jiangsu" https://maps.clb.org.hk/?i18n_language=en_US&map=1&startDate=2020-12&endDate=2020-12&eventId=2020122117142092977&industryName=%5Bobject%20HTMLInputElement%5D https://maps.clb.org.hk/?i18n_language=en_US&map=1&startDate... The Chinese government likes to pretend that they're in control of everything and Western media doesn't tend to question that. But authoritarian crackdowns are not a surefire tactic to prevent all protests, they can just reduce their frequency (maybe).

mehrdadn 6y ago

For comparison (note $6.80/month = $81.60/year): https://www.historyextra.com/period/slave-labour/ https://www.historyextra.com/period/slave-labour/ > Self-hire _slaves_ could command between $100 a year (for unskilled labour in the early 19th century) to as much as $500 (for skilled work in the Lower South in the late 1850s). Also, as a reminder from 2013, this is far from a first for Apple: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/05/woman-nearly-died-making-ipad https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/05/woman-...

bserge 6y ago
Does that account for inflation? Because I believe you could buy way more for $100 in the early 19th century...
- mehrdadn 6y ago
  Believe it or not, it appears to have NOT been adjusted for inflation. (So, multiply it by 15x.) See the $249.60 per year figure here and the following paragraph. http://lestweforget.hamptonu.edu/page.cfm?uuid=9FEC4E79-B361-4EEE-E0FADE75507425B7 http://lestweforget.hamptonu.edu/page.cfm?uuid=9FEC4E79-B361...
  - srtjstjsj 6y ago
    adjusting for inflation is also adjusting for purchasing power, so the old numbers might be a better reference point for low Cost of Living in India
incrudible 6y ago
I find all these slavery comparisons in poor taste. Across history you will find slaves that were treated well, accumulated wealth, were educated and held in high regard - yet they still legally were the property of another person. The fundamental distinction with slavery is not a bad paycheck. In this case, the distinction wasn't a bad paycheck either. The compensation was fine on paper, it just wasn't actually paid out, which is plain fraud. If the response of these workers is to ransack the place, that just tells you how bad/corrupt the legal system must be.

EdwinLarkin 6y ago

Taiwan Wistron, Taiwan Foxconn. It does not matter whether it's a communist China or democratic Taiwan it's all the same just to squeeze some dollars at the expense of human lives. Is it so hard to pay reasonable wages even for low skilled labor in a 3rd world country? Sadly there's no real alternative other than not buying anything from anyone.

MangoCoffee 6y ago
its no secret those electronic contractors make very little. i read an article a couple years ago that say Foxconn make $3 per iphone. how much do you think that $3 get pass to the workers? while Apple pocketed in almost the entire profit. its not just Apple. Dell is the same as well. why do you think they keep contracted to Wistron and Foxconn?
- EdwinLarkin 6y ago
  I understand the business model of these companies. Really. I dont blame Apple or Foxconn or whoever that tries to squeeze as much as they can. But we (as the western civilization) can make deals with most of these countries and set basic standards and minimum wage requirements that is both beneficial to them and to us. I dont want western workers try to compete with cheap labor from India or Vietnam but at the same time I dont want these people be exploited as much as they are now. They can make a decent wage based on the economy of their country and still be treated like humans.
bserge 6y ago
The same thing happens in 1st world countries, as well. If they can get away with it, they'll do it.

bzb6 6y ago

India wanted phones to be produced locally, so they got what they asked for

newbie578 6y ago

Something like this is simply unacceptable. Why is there no public outrage towards Apple? We are all so willing to publicly denounce Nike, Nestle and co., yet no one wants to raise a word against Apple?

mschuster91 6y ago
> Why is there no public outrage towards Apple? This may be because of the 250 million strong general strike and the farmer strike that has hit India in the last weeks (https://www.deccanherald.com/national/at-least-25-crore-workers-participated-in-general-strike-some-states-saw-complete-shutdown-trade-unions-920200.html https://www.deccanherald.com/national/at-least-25-crore-work...). There has been almost zero reporting in Western media about that one, the only thing that drew a tiny bit of attention were the Apple riots. Under normal circumstances I guess there would be many reports about what's going on, but media conglomerates don't want to give the population the idea that general strikes and riots work. We need decoupling of media ownership and society's rich/elites, fast.
- gruez 6y ago
  AFAIK the 250 million figure is a very generous estimate given by the labor groups. 250 million works out to around half of india's workforce. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and we haven't seen that so far. Yes, it's possible that the elites are suppressing the news and the lack of them is only more proof of their involvement, but that goes into conspiracy territory.
foxfoxfox 6y ago
It’s pointless. The only thing that can fix this problem is governments. They have the power to crack down on these manufacturing companies and actually put a stop to it. Tweeting about it won’t do a thing. Buying an alternative brand phone won’t do a thing either because they all come from the same places. This wasn’t an Apple factory, it was just a generic electronics factory that probably produces a large chunk of the stuff you have regardless of brand.
- 6y ago

casi 6y ago

Links to The Times of India article: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bengaluru/violence-breaks-out-at-wistron-corps-iphone-manufacturing-plant-near-bengaluru/articleshow/79691511.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bengaluru/violence-... Good on them. Smash it up, make noise and don't let Apple ignore this. No doubt they respond with the usual "When we worked with factories promising us cheap labour and massive profit we didn't realise people and the planet would be exploited. No one could have known".

PedroBatista 6y ago
Well, Apple doesn’t include chargers on their new iPhones to protect the planet and their keynotes are feel-good orgy of virtuosity. Hard to believe they exploit people...
- arethuza 6y ago
  Is that new, I got a new iPhone in July and it came with a charger?
  - foxfoxfox 6y ago
    It’s the 12 that doesn’t. The logic being that everyone already has a draw full of chargers and cables so it makes sense to remove the brick from the packaging which slims it down and reduces waste.
    - MaxikCZ 6y ago
      Dont forget the 12 is first iPhone supporting fast charging, which none of the previous iPhone chargers supports. So if you want to utilize its full potential, you need to spend bucks.
      - gambiting 6y ago
        Wait, that's absolutely not true. IPhone 8[0] was the first one that supported fast charging, and it didn't come with a compatible charger in the box. You had to use an 18W USB-C charger and a USB-C to lighting cable, neither of which were in the box. But the phone supported it. So the same argument was true for years and yet people behave as if it's new. [0] https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT208137#:~:text=You%20can%20fast%20charge%20your,battery%20in%20around%2030%20minutes.&text=Fast%20charging%20works%20when%20you,96W%20USB-C%20Power%20Adapter https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT208137#:~:text=You%20can%2...

klunger 6y ago

Good for them. It's time for workers stand up for themselves again. I hope the authorities there do an audit to see where all those stolen wages have gone and recover them.

scns 6y ago

You can get a Fairphone 3+ coming with a degoogled Android here: https://esolutions.shop/shop/e-os-fairphone-3-plus/ https://esolutions.shop/shop/e-os-fairphone-3-plus/

fakedang 6y ago
That phone looks exceptionally ugly. I'd rather get a Pine Phone.
- SyzygistSix 6y ago
  As someone who remembers what the time before cell phones was like, having a hand held pocket phone is still miraculous. A slightly less aesthetically pleasing phone is not a big deal when it reduces the true ugliness in the production chain. That said, I'm also trying to decide between a Fairphone or a Linux phone. There are options. Kind of sad these companies are struggling to stay in business rather than struggling to keep up with demand.
  - fakedang 6y ago
    Unfortunately that's not how most consumers think. As far as phone manufacturing goes, anything that involves electronics will inevitably cause pollution in its life cycle. Even if you're creating the most eco-friendly product, no one will want to use it unless it looks pleasing too. The Pine Phone is that, Virtu is that, but the Fairphone isn't. Even then, Pine Phone and Virtu (maybe not so much) have an uphill battle.
cbozeman 6y ago
I was under the impression Fairphones don't work in America?
boudin 6y ago
The phone itself is available on Fairphone directly: https://www.fairphone.com/en/ https://www.fairphone.com/en/ It's a really interesting to read some of their blog posts and see their journey. It does prove that trying to do things in a better way in electronics is possible and that companies that have much more money than them have absolutly no excuse not to follow the same path.

bobkrusty 6y ago

Apple should pays the workers Bad CEO We know theres corona But da company already rich even before der corona

foxfoxfox 6y ago
They aren’t apple employees we don’t even know if these workers were working on apple products. They are Wistron employees, a company that works on everything from TVs to IoT devices. We just know that the factory was contracted to produce the iPhone SE 2 for Indian customers and that Apple did pay fairly and some management level at wistron pocketed it instead of paying the workers.
- tremon 6y ago
  They are still Apple employees, just not on the books. This isn't any different from tax evasion through different shell companies across the world: these workers spend 100% of their labour producing things that Apple subsequently sells at gross markup, so for all intents and purposes -- they are Apple employees, just not according to the law.
- ficklepickle 6y ago
  These structures exist so corps can engage in slavery without harming their brand. They use contactors that they pay so little, they know the working conditions will be terrible. It's a win-win for Apple, more $ and they don't tarnish their brand. When there is media like this, they blame the contractor and keep doing the same things. This is absolutely how MBAs think. I had to misfortune of attending business school.

traveler01 6y ago

This coming from a company that charges 1000$+ for their devices is discusting...

coldcode 6y ago
Bullshit. Every single company in the US buys stuff from companies from foreign countries who promise to deliver things under contract. This is not an Apple owned company, or an Apple problem, or a U.S. problem, but a problem at a company in India (I believe owned by someone in Taiwan). Do you know who made the shirt you are wearing, the product you just bought from Amazon, who picked the grapes you have in your kitchen and who is reading your prescriptions, or how your company's security software supplier builds their software? No? Then you are no different than Apple, who at least tries to keep up with 1000's of suppliers and their treatment of employees. And sometimes those companies are determined to screw their employees over and cover it up. It happens in farmer's fields, giant suppliers or government agencies. Having fake outrage over someone else's occasional failure but ignoring your own. Are you eating food picked by some exploited farmhand? Wearing a cheap shirt made by a prisoner in some labor camp? Ordering some cheap crap on Amazon stolen from a real business? But sure blame Apple for missing the boat.
- traveler01 6y ago
  Yes, I do realise that happens with lots of bussinesses and Apple isn't the only one doing it. But let's be honest, the richest company in the world should be the example to follow in a good way.
- mehrdadn 6y ago
  > Do you know who made the shirt you are wearing? No? Then you are no different than Apple Apple has a $2T worth to tap for investigating this, and I don't, unfortunately.
- JacobSuperslav 6y ago
  this is an example of ultimate centrism. nothing would ever change if people made arguments like these.

teatree 6y ago

The next time you buy an apple product, keep this in mind. Along with that shiny new phone comes curse of thousands of poor people. We are up in arms about climate change with govt, but when a TRILLION dollar private company screws people over - not a word. Wait in line to buy their products. Its hard not to think that most Americans still prefer and like slavery. Just that a few black people managed to escape the publicly acceptable version of it.

ceejayoz 6y ago
Don’t worry, though. It’s just Apple. /s
- foxfoxfox 6y ago
  All the other countless brands of product manufactured in that same factory are good to buy
swebs 6y ago
If you don't want to be a hypocrite, you should also keep this in mind when buying from any company that partners with Wistron. Though it seems difficult to find a full list of partners. >Within 16 months Wistron was making Dell handhelds and Microsoft's Xbox videogame consoles, according to industry reports. (Wistron doesn't identify its customers.) https://archive.is/qxS5s https://archive.is/qxS5s
- csharptwdec19 6y ago
  Wistron is the result of Acer spinning off a bunch of their brands in the late 90s. I remember slinging AOpen (Another Acer spinoff) motherboards and shortly after Acer spun off Wistron, AOpen started offering laptops from Wistron. Dell shortly thereafter offered same/similar models. They weren't very good; while thankfully my laptop was not a victim of the capacitor plague, they had some really bad design around the power port; over time just normal insert cycles would cause the connector to get loose and short in various ways. At one point I would have to 'shim' the plug in with paper to make sure that the contacts were well connected. The problem surfaced after a year, and after a factory repair, I got another year before the problem came back. Thankfully the real fix was to use a better 'plug', one that had a threaded base (i.e. a threaded hole goes through the plastic, a 'cap' holds it in place).

ameen 6y ago

These companies that proselytize fairness and social justice are the ones that seek to keep modern slavery intact: https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-coca-cola-nike-lobbying-on-china-forced-labor-bill-in-congress/ https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-coca-cola-nike-lobbying-on-c... Imagine wanting to profit from forced labor. Disgusting

antihero 6y ago
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism.

eunos 6y ago

Almost everybody here focuses on Apple instead on the Wistron. Having said that I am more inclined that the fault lies on the local managements and myriad of subcontracting companies or even third-party payroll and HR systems.

foxfoxfox 6y ago
It’s kind of hard to know what is going on from an outsiders perspective. Maybe Apple could have or should have known about this before, maybe they did already know, maybe they did everything they realistically could and were deceived. One thing is certain, this problem isn’t specific to Apple. The whole electronics manufacturing industry is rotten and the only ones capable of fixing it are the governments of these counties. Wistron should be crushed for this wage theft and serve as a warning for other companies.
- csharptwdec19 6y ago
  If it is anything like the Cable TV Industry, Apple absolutely knows and is in on the game. I've noticed a pattern where large companies use a -lot- of contractors, sometimes under many layers. When I worked in Telecom, we were usually the contractor for Comcast, but sometimes there was another contractor above us and we were the 'sub-contractor'. But then, below us, were often 1 or 2 more layers of subcontractors. 1/3 of the time we had decent contractors and scope of work and everything worked out. The other 2/3 of the time, it would be one or more of the following: - The contractor mis-bid the project in a way that would lead them to go bankrupt in a year or two - The contractor did a cut-rate job to maximize their profits. - The deadlines or work rate were unreasonable and led to mistakes. But, the important thing about all of this, is that the number of layers involved in the transaction lets everyone point the finger at each other and never point out that maybe it's the system itself that is broken.
notahacker 6y ago
The fault lies with decisions taken by Wistron [local] management, but the incentives to ensure similar decisions aren't taken in future depend on decisions taken by Apple.

jaimex2 6y ago

Apple is a disgusting company.

NullPrefix 6y ago

iPhones are the new blood diamonds. Digging in The Dirt [0] published by Harvard Law School states that daily wages for child miners in Sierra Leone range from US$0.15 to US$0.60 . 0: http://hrp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Digging_In_The_DirtLR.pdf http://hrp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Diggin...

NicoJuicy 6y ago

For comparison. 1 Iphone with full options would be >200 workers for a month.

joshxyz 6y ago

Man this is some not-so-good effect of globalization, how come those factory workers are okay with these?

JacobSuperslav 6y ago
because there's a limited supply of jobs

ilaksh 6y ago

One issue that always occurs to me in these situations is the intense research into automation and robotics. Obviously replacing these workers is not feasible now, but it seems like we should anticipate much more capable robots as the research progresses. That will increase the problems that labour has dramatically. Check out https://marshallbrain.com/robotic-nation https://marshallbrain.com/robotic-nation

roenxi 6y ago

Many of the comments, at the time of posting, aren't really grappling with what the article says. It is about a company called Wistron, not a company called Apple. I would challenge the idea that Apple is doing something wrong in this given what I now about most of the supply chains producing goods in the advanced economies - everyone down to the consumer buys from the cheapest supplier. Apple is not fundamentally responsible for the labour relations of other companies, and this is a practice that literally everyone I know has engaged in to some degree. "Sweatshop labour" producing clothes isn't very concealing as euphemisms go. It is far more worrying that Apple does business in China period than that Apple has dodgy subcontractor arrangements in India. India is a democracy, they'll sort this stuff out in time. There is also no need to express outrage on this one. Promising to pay one amount and then not paying it is an unpardonable sin in pretty much every value system anyone cares to name. Comparisons to slavery, however, are missing the point. This is fraud. Assuming an accurate article this is one of the few times that smashing someone else's stuff is justified.

aarong11 6y ago
Are comparisons to slavery missing the point? I understand that companies are always going to go for the lowest bidder, but if the lowest bidder was mistreating it's workers and they know about it then it's socially irresponsible. Companies like Apple have plausible deniability when it comes to things like this. That's one of the major reasons they outsource rather than building their own factory. Apple is built on vertical integration.
mehrdadn 6y ago
> Apple is not fundamentally responsible for the labour relations of other companies It's a funny world where everyday individual customers barely making a living are supposed to unite, educate themselves on the supply chains of everything they see on the market, and vote with their wallets to filter out unethically-produced products, but a single $2 trillion tech corporation ("person"?) who's a customer of another company with all the leverage in the world isn't responsible for caring if it's reaching the $2T market cap ethically.
tomcam 6y ago
Apple lectures me on all kinds of things, from climate change to political correctness. Just give me a fucking device and stay out of my politics. They have earned the outrage.

mabbo 6y ago

We moved manufacturing out of the west because wow, other countries could do it so cheaply. It never occurred to us to ask how they would achieve that. (Or perhaps some of us already knew). What good is ending slavery here if we're still receiving the benefits of effective slavery taking place there? Did we win some moral victory by not doing it within sight of our citizens? Companies that manufacture elsewhere but sell here should need to prove that the people who made their products did so ethically. Clearly, we can't take that for granted.

throw_m239339 6y ago
We just outsourced slavery and it makes us a bunch of hypocrites yes each time we use "human rights" to chastise countries in the south. Our politicians are fully aware of this exploitation dynamics and legal arbitrages they engineered. The stupidest thing is that despite getting our stuff from slaves by the very definition of that word, our stuff ain't cheap at all, especially Apple which are luxury goods, it's just Apple making crazy margins. Apple could produce all their stuff in the West they would still be filthy rich. But it's not as profitable. But hey, 'carbon neutral','diverse and inclusive' or something, it makes yuppies in California feel good about themselves...
christophilus 6y ago
My dad was in US manufacturing his entire career. He retired at a pretty high position and was largely responsible for keeping that manufacturing from going overseas. He said by far his biggest difficulty was that he had to pay a living wage, conform to rigorous environmental standards, and worry about pesky things like people losing hands or digits, where none of his competitors had any of those concerns. We’ve passed much needed internal regulation without requiring the same standards from importers. This is one of the reasons the blue collar middle class has vanished here, and it’s a real shame.
bagacrap 6y ago
Yet many folks would call you racist or xenophobic for speaking out against globalization.
bondarchuk 6y ago

iamsb 6y ago

It is sad that Indian state is not able to monopolies violence. For too many violent protests, incidents are not good for the country.

fakedang 6y ago
This has got to be the most desensitized comment I've read on HN till now.
- iamsb 6y ago
  Might want to educate yourself on what it means for a state to monopolies violence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence
  - fakedang 6y ago
    I know what a state monopoly on violence means. The fact that you care about "India's image" as a business attraction rather than the plight of those workers who were paid a measly 7$ a month was what I was talking about.
    - iamsb 6y ago
      1. India's image is what enhances its chances of gaining more business which improves livelihood of everyone. 2. Monopoly of violence requires working justice system where civil and criminal matters can be resolved. Ignorance is not a bliss.

anon20201221 6y ago

It's been my understanding that many Indians took a 30% paycut due to the covid related hit on the economy. It seems like paycuts without cutting jobs seems to work better in Indian corporate culture as opposed to USA where companies will just cut the jobs entirely. The first pay cut seems to reflect that and isn't surprising. The next pay cut is surprising - the economy in India has been on recovery and global demand for Apple devices is not an issue. I'd keep eyes on the local company executives, many of whom probably walked away with large Diwali bonuses thinking they are kings for bringing Apple manufacturing to the area. They're the ones to blame for not bringing on more HR resources. Why yes, Apple does have responsibility for vetting suppliers, this specific factory seems to have gone sour very recently and the workers didn't let them get away with it. Apple seems to have acted appropriately with a probation and the local/national governments of India are also responding in a positive manner I believe will create stronger policies supporting tech manufacturing that properly care for staff and corporate oversight needs. I believe there will be closer eyes on the BMW driving corporate staff who hopefully will not continue behaving like kings.

mgkimsal 6y ago
> paycuts without cutting jobs seems to work better in Indian corporate culture as opposed to USA Most of the folks I know who've had jobs affected by this had a mix. Some people were laid off, some had hours cut, some had pay cut - sometimes at the same company (different workers affected differently). I don't think there's an across the board "one approach fits all" that companies have taken in the US.
- cosmiccatnap 6y ago
  I'm pretty sure a pay cut is in direct violation of contracts with the company. If the shoe were on the other foot and you owed the company I doubt it would go over so well. We need to ensure that these companies hold up their end of the deal even if they go under, nothing should be too big to fail

Jipazgqmnm 6y ago

Let's all pretend a round of surprise. How could this happend? A company with a track record of pure labour friendliness. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CINZhtB2aHU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CINZhtB2aHU

forgingahead 6y ago

This is a supplier of Apple, a two TRILLION dollar megacorp by marketcap, which had 11 billion in profit. I'm as capitalist as the next guy, but this is just shameful.

jansan 6y ago
Making this public and being outraged is important to make capitalism work.

jansan 6y ago

If I stood in front of an Apple store holding a sign that says "Note that workers in India's iPhone factories are paid less than 7$ PER MONTH!", would I be labeled a terrorist?

Minor49er 6y ago
Why a terrorist?
42_ 6y ago
The answer depends on the country in which you plan to hold that sign ;)

arvindamirtaa 6y ago

Apple wants a piece of the pie from EVERYONE downstream. They'll go to great lengths to make sure they're always at the door, collecting. They can very well deal with and clean up the mess anyone makes upstream. "Apple and <some supplier that almost exclusively supplies to Apple> are not the same" line is pretty much trolling at this point.

lorenzhs 6y ago
Wistron isn't "some supplier that almost exclusively supplies to Apple". They also manufacture electronics for Microsoft, Dell, Lenovo, Motorola. Originally, they were Acer's production arm. Lots of things about how workers in the supply chain are treated is very wrong, but if you accuse others of trolling, you'd better get your facts straight.
- hu3 6y ago
  Is Apple forced to use Wistron? No? Then sorry but this is on Apple. And I doubt anything will change.

itsthefnlacctdn 6y ago

A factory strictly used for making Iphones, I see no reason for Apple to get any blame here, they obviously cant keep track of this huge outsource company that makes too many other electronics. (do I get a check from Apple here or is it an outsource company that pays the shills as well?)

transfire 6y ago

Until the true Robot Revolution arrives there will be slavery, guised in wage labour or otherwise.

throw_m239339 6y ago
It's like that fantasy about Uber and self driving cars. Exploiting humans will always be cheaper than maintaining robots in places where human life has very little value.

npiit 6y ago

That's how you make 40% profit margin boys on 250 billion dollars a year, boys. Overpriced products, underpraid foreign workrs, and most important of all, brainwashing users on a global scale by selling technically inferior products as luxury. That's why Apple is the holy grail of investors and entrepreneurs. Let's get back to talk more about the fake benchmarks of M1.

brainless 6y ago

I know this wage sounds alien to many. I wholeheartedly disagree with Apple's wages but for context, Rs 50 - 80 is the price of a full, though street food, meal in many Indian cities. India simply has cheap food and low costs. I know this personally as I live a fairly low-expense life. But I can not imagine a big co paying these ridiculously low wages. This is exactly why rich get and stay richer. Apple has the means to push partners to keep paying low. Apple knows what it is doing.

goda90 6y ago
So $7/month is about ten meals a month then. Sounds like it's not a living wage to me.
JacobSuperslav 6y ago
try paying rent, buying medicine for your kids, books, etc. good luck
manquer 6y ago
The factory is located near Bangalore. I would challenge you to survive on even double that salary in Bangalore. Also it is not just low pay. Even that has not been paid on time

tinus_hn 6y ago

Before blaming Apple the important question is what is Apple paying? Are they paying $7 and ripping off the employees? Or are they paying $100 and Wistron is ripping off Apple?

NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
Apple is certainly not paying by the hour. I would expect this to be a volume-based contract.
gimmeThaBeet 6y ago
That's the question I would have too. I assume apple pays for devices, not necessarily time. Which means that we see the results, what motivated it, but we don't know what apple paid for. People can be mad at apple for not having enough scrutiny into their supply chain. From similar articles, it seems foxconn doesn't pay very well, but it seems to match the promised levels here. Now I don't know what cost of living is between those parts of China and India, so that's a big caveat. But it sort of torpedoes the outrage to me if the failure mode isn't actually known. You can lament the salaries, but the fact is we don't know what apple was paying for or what wistron's operations were. We just know there were riots.

mehrdadn 6y ago

Off-topic question: Has this story gotten permanently capped to rank #10 on the front page somehow? If so, why? As of this writing, it has far more points than any higher story on the front page (this is at 168 points, whereas the next-highest one is at 121 points [1]), and some of those were posted hours earlier than this one. (e.g. [2] is at 45 points and posted 5 hours ago, whereas this story is at 168 points posted 3 hours ago.) I'm asking because I'm pretty darn upset by this news and I care that people actually see it. So this apparent (artificial?) deranking is very much bothering me. What is the basis for it? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25492406 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25492406 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25485541 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25485541

jagged-chisel 6y ago
The formula involves time, votes, and the 'busy-ness' of the comments. And, IIRC, the time component is tuned to prevent a story from being on the front page (and continuing to displace other stories) for a very long time. It certainly has no concept of moral outrage. If admins think a story is worthy (and I suppose if enough folks contacted them expressing this viewpoint), they can certainly make adjustments to keep it around a bit longer.
- mehrdadn 6y ago
  The time and votes don't explain this, and "more comments = bad" doesn't either. Because [1] has 27 points with 8 comments from 3 hours ago, whereas [2] has 28 points with 7 comments from 1 hour ago, and yet [1] is ranked #8 and [2] is ranked #13. I don't see how any of those explain this. AFAIK this story never went above ~#10 either, so it's not like it's been hanging around forever. It really looks like something/someone has been either artificially boosting other stories or artificially penalizing this one to prevent it from going near the top. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25494109 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25494109 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25493495 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25493495
  - jagged-chisel 6y ago

absolutelyrad 6y ago

Apple is a labor exploitation company.

throwaway4good 6y ago

According to this Wistron has been producing for Apple in India for 4 years. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-india-wistron-idUSKBN28O0C7 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-india-wistron-idUSK... "Wistron has been making iPhones in India for nearly four years and its operation has been seen as a success story for Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s government that is looking to boost manufacturing."

02020202 6y ago

ivory tower much?

Simulacra 6y ago

It's interesting that the workers in India are able to do this at all. Had they been in China, I imagine the repercussions would be far more lethal.

campl3r 6y ago

How is this an Apple problem?

cronix 6y ago

What do you expect from a company that actually lobbies for slave labor? Hey, anything to keep that stock price up is a small price to pay, eh? > Apple wants to water down key provisions of the bill, which would hold U.S. companies accountable for using Uighur forced labor, according to two congressional staffers https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/11/20/apple-uighur/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/11/20/apple-u...

mercutio2 6y ago
As has been widely reported, this unsourced suggestion that Apple wanted to water down the bill was denied emphatically by everyone involved.

FriedrichN 6y ago

Apple isn't the only one doing this, but Apple is the company who makes 'think different' posters with Nelson Mandela, the Dalai Lama, Ghandi, etc. on them. That, to me, makes it extra disgusting. It tries to sell itself as some company that is somehow different and not 'evil' and 'corporate' like all the others.

amelius 6y ago

The "i" in "iPhone" is for ill-treatment.

psim1 6y ago

The title is unfortunately incorrect, changed by the submitter for larger impact. According to the article, some people were hired for $100/mo., and some people received $7/mo. - not the same people. edit: title has been subsequently changed. Thanks mods!

ComodoHacker 6y ago

With Apple's margins they could easily afford to do all payroll themselves in the US, if their partners are not trustworthy enough. They could also hire undercover agents to monitor the situation. Heck, they could even help organize and sponsor a union!

mensetmanusman 6y ago

The massive profit margin of the iPhone makes situations like this sad. What is also sad is the misery that these people experience even assuming Apple didn’t exist in the world. No one argues that capitalism hasn’t been amazingly effective at bringing people out of abject poverty. The next jump in quality of life is less clear...

swebs 6y ago

For anyone who wants to put their money where their mouth is, you can buy a Librem 5 USA edition, which is fully made in the USA and costs $2000. (For comparison, the third-world labor edition costs $800) https://puri.sm/products/librem-5-usa/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-5-usa/

Torwald 6y ago
> For anyone who wants to put their money where their mouth is Hahaha, no, this is just an opportunity to bash Apple, no need to actually do something about it. Anyway. This looks very interesting, thanks for linking. Can you tell me on the spot (if you have to look it up, I'll do it myself…), if there is an easy way to run Org-mode and sync my Org-mode files from a Mac?
0xffff2 6y ago
It's certainly better than nothing, but the number of caveats in their language shows just how hard it is to accomplish. "All the electronics will be made in our USA facility" they say, but I wonder how many components are made in the US? It sounds like it's mostly PCB soldering and assembly that are done in the US. "Fully made in the USA" is an almost fractal claim that can't be literally true unless all raw materials were mined in the US, but even without demanding that level of depth I think calling this "fully made" in the US is a stretch.

merricksb 6y ago

Earlier discussions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25402999 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25402999 (90 points/117 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25408188 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25408188 (27 points/20 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25411526 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25411526 (125 points/15 comments)

Existenceblinks 6y ago

> but India is an extremely competitive This is awful alternative to saying "extremely cheap labour"

fionic 6y ago

I can’t see what this has to do with Apple yet, other than Apple has hired them to contract out some of their work. Is Apple in charge of what all these Winstron employees get paid or do they interface with leaders of Wonstron who then turn around and write paychecks?

bredren 6y ago
Apple has a strict set of supplier responsibility standards [1], but is even more strict in controlling PR and the Apple brand. So even if the conditions that led to this destruction were not within existing guidelines, I would imagine reporting or accounting audit requirements will become more strict as a result of this. [1] https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/ https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/

yalogin 6y ago

As much as I sympathize with the workers, this situation is unavoidable for a company the size of apple. People here also assume that just because Apple is a giant they must be trying to exploit. Just because it hurts our sensibilities doesn't make it apple's problem. This could very well be the country's issues with labor and how they deal with it. We should at least be glad that they are rioting and causing a ruckus. If this were China they would be suppressed a long time ago.

iso1210 6y ago
Has Apple withdrawn business from this company?

powerapple 6y ago

If the factory is not paying workers, it would be illegal in many countries, I hope it is the same in India, shouldn't the government and court deal with it?

naruvimama 6y ago

Wow, the comments are eye opening. China has "exported" communism to the rest of the world and has become capitalistic itself.

6510 6y ago

Other reports mention 60 m in damages and that the 6.80 USD per month for some was a 95% [gradual] decrease in salary. Imagine living on 1 USD per day. Now imagine living on much much less? I read some excuses from people how Apple didn't know but they are not the only manufacturer (or brand) in the world using cheap labor. Plenty don't monitor work conditions but others (usually more fancy brands) keep a close eye on things. Last time people got rid of slavery by not buying the products. You chose who you are.

togs 6y ago

We don't live in a fair world. Those who have power rule over those who do not. Nobody wants a fair world, anyway. We love the thrill over overcoming the odds.