33 ms·

They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

• dundercoder 6y ago
  This is not atypical for YouTube. I had a full on paid gsuite account and when they lost my channel there was “nothing we can do”. I had the video backed up, but lost all the links, views, and subscribers.
  • renewiltord 6y ago
    Thanks for sharing that. Did anything happen to the remainder of your Gsuite?
    • dundercoder 6y ago
      No, the rest was fine. My channel was all original music that I own the rights to. No clue why.
      • renewiltord 6y ago
        Thank you!
• buhhh 6y ago
  .
  • type0 6y ago
    No, the reason is probably just as stupid as it sounds, they don't want to investigate the claims so it's easier to close the channel and keep the music publishers happy.
    • patrickaljord 6y ago
      I agree but you would think the world leading company in AI would be smart enough to detect bans that deserve further investigation such as in this case: a channel with more than 770k subscribers, no content with nudity or violence whatsoever in 10 years, no controversies in the comments or downvotes, no automatic detection of copyright violation in 10 years etc. There aren't that many channels with these characteristics and google certainly has the money to investigate manually the very few channels that reach this threshold and they certainly have the AI to detect even more heuristics to avoid false positives like this one. They are just so arrogant and know that they will never get in trouble with the law that they just won't even spend a dime or a second thought on these issues no matter how life ruining they can be. Pretty sad.
• deadalus 6y ago
  Alternative Video Sites : https://lbry.tv/ https://lbry.tv/ https://www.dailymotion.com/ https://www.dailymotion.com/ https://www.bitchute.com/ https://www.bitchute.com/ https://dlive.tv/ https://dlive.tv/ https://bittube.tv/ https://bittube.tv/
  • wlll 6y ago
    What's the audience like on those? I assume pretty small compared to YouTube.
    • laksdjfkasljdf 6y ago
      And you can be part of the solution! Isn't this nice?
      • katbyte 6y ago
        being part of the solution doesn't pay the bills
        • deadalus 6y ago
          LBRY is viable for creators and the videos cannot be taken down permanently : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jyhy4Bcqgg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jyhy4Bcqgg
          • vaccinator 6y ago
            Doesn't https://lbry.tv/ https://lbry.tv/ host this video?
        • j4nt4b 6y ago
          Paying the bills by being part of the problem is a personal decision
        • ultrarunner 6y ago
          Neither does being de-platformed.
• Ashanmaril 6y ago
  Youtube is just so beyond broken at this point. I wish everyone could move somewhere else, but it's a catch 22. They're so cemented as the standard
  • perlpimp 6y ago
    YouTube is irc of video distribution.
    • floren 6y ago
      Good god, I'd hate to see what the Discord or Slack of video distribution would be, then.
  • NegatioN 6y ago
    It does indeed feel like they supplanted regular television in some sense, and is catering to "the establishment" more and more each year. Before the focus felt like it was more on exposing people to new up-and-comers, or random viral stuff. The viral stuff is still there, but so algorithmically driven, and catering to the lowest common denominator that it just feels off. I have no clue how to find new channels with interesting concepts anymore.
  • nfriedly 6y ago
    I've been starting to watch things on nebula. There's a lot less content than youtube, but what's there is top notch.
    • beauzero 6y ago
      As soon as they have the 4k Relaxation Channel (on youtube) content I am there. One monitor is always dedicated to it and I currently pay Google so that I don't get work inappropriate ads playing. It would save me money.
      • nfriedly 6y ago
        Nice. I think they have a way to make recommendations, I'll try and figure out how and send that one in for you.
• bdcravens 6y ago
  Probably time to seek another monetization strategy. The person behind Piano in 21 Days has been incredibly successful doing this: https://theonlinecourseguy.com/ https://theonlinecourseguy.com/
  • coliveira 6y ago
    A guy who sold "millions" in piano courses and now is trying to sell how to "make millions" on online courses... sounds a little bit suspicious.
    • bdcravens 6y ago
      I can definitely get that - his podcast is actually pretty legit and value filled. He could totally be lying about his numbers, but after listening to his story, it seems like it took him a few years to ramp up his piano course sales.
      • PIANO_IN_21DAYS 6y ago
        Thanks for listening to the podcast!
    • Igelau 6y ago
      I've never read "The Four Hour Work Week" but I always figured that if it was honest, all it would say is "1) write a book about how to only work four hours a week. 2) convince people to buy it. 3) On average, spend four hours a week on this."
      • samatman 6y ago
        The actual punchline of Four Hour Work Week is that Tim Ferris is a workaholic hustler who never stops grinding. Probably still worth reading? I got some good ideas and perspectives out of it, back in the day. Just uh, sip the Kool-Aid, don't chug it.
  • read_if_gay_ 6y ago
• pwinnski 6y ago
  Digital sharecroppers keep running into problems with YouTube, but the alternatives are barely better. That is, not as heavy-handed, but much worse in other ways.
• mieko 6y ago
  As someone who has been responsible for large cloud budgets, I wonder if Google is aware that their "support strategy" toward both content creators/contractors and customers across the entire brand has completely ruled out GCP for me. GCP might have great support. They may not have automated bots suspending accounts. They might actually follow the DMCA counterclaim process instead of some weird process on top of it. I'll never know: I restrict Google products to casual, throw-away contexts. I've imagined myself trying to explain to my boss or a client "They won't respond" or "They say they can't provide any information." Just typing that freaks me out. Anyway, if you want to be a huge corporation living under one brand umbrella, you've got to take the good with the bad. Google is for entertainment stuff and toys to me.
  • austinkhale 6y ago
    I was involved a bidding war between GCP and AWS where each was offering a healthy six figures in free credits to move our business to their cloud. GCP was offering nearly 3x as many but ultimately I didn’t want to move to a service where there was a chance offerings were going to get the axe with no warning. Their reputation has indeed hurt them — at least in one instance.
    • rednerrus 6y ago
      Same in my last role.
    • katzgrau 6y ago
      A fair percentage of companies exploring my SaaS company as potential clients are doing so because Google doesn't provide any support / insight for practically any issue they may have.
      • Aperocky 6y ago
        As someone working for one of its competitor, I'm glad that waking up at night and solving a customer's problem (and/or our problem) is helping in a tangible way.
      • 6y ago
• ravenstine 6y ago
  Imagine if you showed up to a self-storage facility one day and find a different lock on your unit. You go to the manager and ask what the hell is going on. > Oh, you? Yeah, your unit was full of stolen goods, so we seized it and changed the lock. > There was nothing stolen in there! What about a bunch of banged up furniture and old cans of paint made you think it was stolen? (the manager stares blankly) > Well?! (crickets) > Can I at least take back my stuff that you didn't mistake for being stolen? > We burned it all and sunk the ashes in the Mariana Trench. There is no recourse. As far as we're concerned, you don't exist. Have a nice day! > Gee, thanks... ᵃˢˢʰᵒˡᵉ --- If we ever come up with a digital bill of rights, one of the amendments should include being given a grace period to retrieve all of the data that you stored with a service in case they decide to terminate your account. It's absurd that you can store your data with a service one day, and in the next it's all gone because reasons.
  • amelius 6y ago
    Sounds similar to how Paypal users routinely had their assets frozen. There was even a website about it, I think it was paypalsucks.com.
    • Psychlist 6y ago
      you say 'frozen" but I think you mean "stolen". When someone offers to forward money to me in exchange for a small fee, we sign a contract, then they keep all the money that's at best fraud but in reality theft. Now all I need to do is hire a US legal firm to sue paypal and get my money. Even if it was $100,000 it still wouldn't be worth it. Paypal know this.
  • rdiddly 6y ago
    At least they chose the heaviest & most metalish place to dispose of the ashes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiKz7r86aT8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiKz7r86aT8
    • ravenstine 6y ago
      I miss that show!
• vondur 6y ago
  If we are lucky, someone from Google/Youtube with some connections can get this fixed after seeing this.
  • onion2k 6y ago
    That would be the best outcome for the guy who made the videos, but the best outcome for the rest of us would be that content creators become (more) wary of YouTube and move to other platforms, or at least mirror their content on them. That would give us more choice and give YouTube some proper competition that might push them to do better by their users.
  • _def 6y ago
    yeah maybe for this particular channel. This problem occurs again and again and is not new. YouTube and Google obviously don't scale in management & support
  • freedomben 6y ago
    I agree with you and it makes me even more mad that it's only the people lucky enough to get some spotlight that ever get helped. I would be the guy who nobody ever knew about that got crushed like a bug.
    • gorkish 6y ago
      I am not suggesting in any way that it doesn't happen, but I do take some solace in that I have never read a story where this kind of thing wasn't ultimately resolved, whether it made a beeline straight to the mothership via an insider on HN or simply endured the protracted process of the official support channels. I'd like to know more about how often undeserved "crushed bugs" are happening.
      • gilrain 6y ago
        You realize that if you've heard of the story, that means it went viral, which means it's one of the few lucky ones which get resolved by a human. You don't hear about any that don't get resolved, because the ones that don't get resolved are they ones that didn't go viral. That's the whole reason why it's so ugly and injust.
• bilalq 6y ago
  This is just the general trend with things running on Google owned services. I don't think I've ever had to deal with a more customer/user hostile company. I've had an Android app get payments blocked and had to deal with repeated back-and-forth resending of the same documents over and over before they unblocked it. I never did get an answer on why any of that was necessary or why it was impossible to ever speak to anyone about the details related to the issue. It's bad enough they just wholesale kill services that people love and rely on. The whole "the algorithm has decided to kill your account with no explanation" risk makes it feel like we're already dealing with a dystopian reality in some respects.
  • zamalek 6y ago
    I wouldn't touch GCP with a barge pole for these reasons.
    • _jal 6y ago
      Or their free email. If you use them, ask yourself, if they locked you out, what data would you lose? And how many accounts at other services are going to give you grief because you can't reply from that address now?
      • ekanes 6y ago
        If someone can't run their own mail system, what do you recommend? Are there better options?
        • wazanator 6y ago
          I've enjoyed using Proton Mail https://protonmail.com/pricing https://protonmail.com/pricing
          • jes 6y ago
            Same. I have been using it for a year now (I know, I'm a Late Adopter) and it's been completely smooth. No complaints.
• throwayws 6y ago
  https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/9374251?hl=en https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/9374251?hl=en > It’s important that creators always have detailed knowledge about who is claiming content in their videos, where it appears, and what they can do to resolve the claim. That’s why all new manual claims will require copyright owners to provide timestamps to indicate exactly where their copyrighted content appears in videos they claim, and we’ve updated our editing tools to make it easier to automatically release a claim. Is it a bug with Youtube or do they not follow this policy (consistently)?
  • dmitriid 6y ago
    They don't care, and they don't follow that policy. Even if that is "just a technical issue", no one cared enough to spend resources to fix their underlying system to reflect that policy.
    • kllrnohj 6y ago
      DMCA notices are not issued by YouTube. I think you're confusing this with Content-ID, which is youtube's auto-algorithm thingy. That's not what happened here, though, per the video.
      • avianlyric 6y ago
        OP is talking is quoting a support article about manual claims, and how google require these manual claims must include a timestamp and description. Something that is notably missing from the strikes shown in the video. GP is saying that their system shouldn’t let copyright claimants just ignore Google’s policy. Which is clearly what’s happened here. Which just further demonstrates Google’s contempt for its creators.
        • kllrnohj 6y ago
          Those are manual claims via YouTube's non-DMCA system. YouTube still has to respect DMCA claims and YouTube cannot impose requirements on DMCA notices. If it's a valid legal DMCA complaint, YouTube must comply. Google's policy is irrelevant here as it's not law. The point of confusion here is that there's multiple ways to issue a copyright strike on YouTube. If this is via YouTube's internal mechanisms, then yeah this is bullshit. But if it's not and is instead a DMCA notice, and the evidence suggests it is a DMCA notice, then YouTube has no authority over the matter.
• JKCalhoun 6y ago
  That's a drag. That with the ramping up on ads is making YouTube harder to watch. Too bad because I think we can all list some amazing channels. Slurping all 214 of his videos right now in case I want to improve my journeyman guitar skills in the future. Interesting, no ads when you watch them that way. Imagining a browser extension that you kick off when in YouTube: it pulls down the video and opens it in a new browser window sans ads....
  • coayer 6y ago
    Ublock origin blocks YouTube ads, so you don't need to imagine!
    • InitialLastName 6y ago
      I always forget YouTube has ads until someone else shows me a video on their device and I'm like "Why do we have deal with 2 minutes of insurance sales for a 30 second video of two dogs playing?"
    • JKCalhoun 6y ago
      That's cool. (Safari broke that extension though.)
      • forgotmysn 6y ago
        why are you using safari? genuine question
    • jandrese 6y ago
      I have tried not to use uBlock because I understand that this is ad supported content, but Youtube is just killing me with the ads now. I don't think I'll be able to hold out. Literally every 5 minutes they break in with two commercials. It's worse than broadcast TV.
      • t-writescode 6y ago
        YouTube Premium is $10/month and I know I use YouTube enough to justify the cost. For everything else, there's PiHole
• kjaftaedi 6y ago
  I'm not that familiar with copyright law. Is he legally allowed to make a guitar cover of any song he wants to and distribute it? It's also not clear if there were ads on the videos. Would that play a role?
  • haunter 6y ago
    I'm curious about this as well. How does that work with books too? Like can I read a book on Youtube and make money with that even if the book is copyrighted?
    • gorkish 6y ago
      (In the US) Reading a book aloud is considered a performance and the book's copyright protects it. You could read it aloud (and make money with it) only so long as your activity is covered by fair use doctrine. If you want a more YouTube-relatable analogy, the passages from the book would need to be treated like the original content in a reaction video.
    • type_enthusiast 6y ago
      No, because reading the book aloud for free on YouTube would obviate the need for people to purchase the book (or otherwise acquire a purchased copy of it). In this case, learning how to play a song on guitar doesn't obviate the need to hear the original artist's recording of it. It's an argument over the doctrine of fair use, which has four parts: 1. What's the purpose of the use? Is it for educational purposes, or commercial purposes? (These aren't mutually exclusive, which is a confounder) 2. What's claimed to be copyrighted/creative in the original work? Is the creativity in question merely the phrasing of facts, or are there aspects of the original author's own creativity (for music, this one is probably irrelevant; it's obviously a largely creative endeavor, though I guess there probably exist certain hypothetical pieces of music for which it's harder to say) 3. How much of the work has been used? This is tricky; he probably teaches how to play entire songs, but the guitar part of any given song is a small piece of the overall work (and he probably uses very little, if any, of the copyrighted recording) 4. What's the impact on the value of the original work? In this case it's clear that there is essentially no negative impact – if anything, if you're learning to play a song, you're more likely to purchase or otherwise consume the original recording. This is also usually the most important factor in deciding fair use (from what I understand; I am not a legal professional, I just remember this from a paper I wrote in college for some course or other). (edit: formatting)
• edgartaor 6y ago
  The thing is, this is not only a YouTube channel, it's a small business. Google is literally shutting down a small business without any proof. You could think that it's somewhat illegal to do, but apparently it's not.
  • pan69 6y ago
    The channel is the retail space and the landlord just kicked them out. I think this content producer should get a lawyer.
    • dalbasal 6y ago
      Landlords and tenants have contracts, and there are rules about what and how these are enforceable.
      • kllrnohj 6y ago
        So does copyright law, and it sounds like the creator received 5 DMCA notices. So yes getting a lawyer would still be the correct course of action.
        • kristofferR 6y ago
          He hasn't received any DMCA notices, Youtube don't do those - since DMCA gives creators fair use rights and have punishments for fradulent reports. Youtube has its own "extra jurisdictional" copyright system.
          • kllrnohj 6y ago
            > Youtube don't do those YouTube can't just "opt out" of the law. YouTube absolutely responds to DMCA notices, and per the video he issued counter-claims already - that's a core part of responding to DMCA. https://www.youtube.com/howyoutubeworks/policies/copyright/#enforcing-copyright https://www.youtube.com/howyoutubeworks/policies/copyright/#... And you don't have to go through youtube's webtools to submit one, either (which of course you don't - the law doesn't require that). You can mail, fax, or email the DMCA takedown notice: https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/6005908?hl=en&ref_topic=9282363 https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/6005908?hl=en&ref_...
• pizza234 6y ago
  Is there anybody here who can give an insider's view on this case? I'm aware of the problems of scaling support to a huge scale, and contexts where the communication of the termination causes is an issue in itself (e.g. to protect internal business logic). However, in cases like this, being hostile seems an intentional decision - specifically, by hiding the reasons. Is this truly intentional on Google's side?
  • 13415 6y ago
    The question seems odd to me. How could the letter he received, its tone, and everything else in this case be unintentional?
    • pizza234 6y ago
      I'm trying to play devil's advocate, in order to better understand the real-world dynamics of support at large scale. Every once in a while, some insider pops in discussions like this, and says "you don't know support at large scale etc.etc.". Therefore, with both sides of the story at hand, a productive assessment could be done. To clarify, I do think Google has a just "f*ck them all" approach to support; for example, there could be paid support plans for people who made a large investment. But I need to hear the devil :-)
• totaldude87 6y ago
  WOW, initially i thought this was some average joe's channel where bots can run rampage(even this is wrong).. 770,000 subscribers 120 million views 600 videos all gone in 4 days!!!!! keep rocking youtube!!! Google is now a monopoly with Search, Youtube and probably gmail be right?!
  • deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  • rvz 6y ago
    This really isn't a surprise and has been happening to lots of fringe creators and lesser known channels with as many subscribers for years. It was only a matter of time before it happened to other high profile creators.
    • totaldude87 6y ago
      Yeah, my point is that the problem is so real that even high profile creators are left to bite dust..
  • Shared404 6y ago
    > Google is now a monopoly with Search, Youtube and probably gmail be right?! Not quite. Search -- I use an assortment of non-google engines, but mostly https://duckduckgo.com https://duckduckgo.com Youtube -- Not quite a monopoly, but contains almost all of the mindshare. Gmail -- There's plenty of other email services. I use protonmail.
• shog_hn 6y ago
  We need to support alternative platforms and projects for reasons like this. NewPipe is one of my recently discovered favourites. It pretty much scrapes Youtube and strips the horrid ads. You don't get any of the recommendation rubbish either and is far better from a privacy and data tracking point of view. FOSS for Android devices. https://github.com/TeamNewPipe/NewPipe https://github.com/TeamNewPipe/NewPipe
• nemothekid 6y ago
  I've seen this on Twitter, Reddit and now HN, so I assume there will be enough buzz for Google to do something. I expect his channel to be undeleted, then a Twitter apology, then to repeat this all over again with another channel with sufficient clout in 5-6 months. It's a complete shitshow.
  • 2muchcoffeeman 6y ago
    Well, on the other hand, at least there’s a review process now.
  • monoideism 6y ago
    Meanwhile, all the smaller channels/businesses without that clout that get suddenly and automatically shut down die a quiet death.
  • blackearl 6y ago
    It's a shame that there's likely hundreds if not thousands of similar cases that didn't hit the internet quite like OP did. I think you must be crazy to have your income be only as a youtuber. It's like mountain climbing with no ropes, you can reach these tall peaks but any moment a foothold can break and you lose it all.
  • ehsankia 6y ago
    Here's the other way to look at it, videos like this are becoming fairly rare comparatively, maybe 2-3 a year. They definitely used to be more common before. Considering the millions or creators you have, and even with the fact that only a small number of them would make a video like this and blow up, it still is surprising that it's happening so infrequently. The thing is, for all we know, 99.99% of cases could be handled properly, and we wouldn't have a clue. We only get to see it when it goes wrong, and someone complains. But again, such complains at the very least have been decreasing, while Youtube itself is ever growing, so it looks like at least something is improving in here.
    • zmk_ 6y ago
      The only thing you can say is that the number of videos that get traction is decreasing. You don't know how many are shut down.
• lopmotr 6y ago
  It quickly stops being a mystery when he admits he uses other people's copyright material but "no more of the original subject matter than is necessary". That right after dishonestly asserting "every aspect of every video that I produce is generated by myself". If you aren't exploiting someone else's work, then don't use it! Even if it really is fair use, that just means he would win a lawsuit, not that every publisher is obliged to publish it. Professional content creators for TV, movies, advertising, etc. don't have these problems because they make sure they don't use anybody else's content without a license! Youtubers don't bother because they're little fish and can get away with it and justify everything to themselves as fair use even if it's not.
  • pault 6y ago
    Is teaching how to play the intro to Hey Jude on an acoustic guitar exploiting someone else's work? It's not like he's uploading the white album to YouTube.
    • lopmotr 6y ago
      If that lesson was broadcast on TV, the music would have been licensed, not "publish and pray". If he was really just teaching how to play the guitar, and not taking advantage of the fame of someone else's work that they paid to make popular, then he could have used a free unknown song or one he wrote himself.
• seanyesmunt 6y ago
  I work for LBRY inc, and am happy to answer any questions people have.
  • whatever1 6y ago
    Search for the word “Jews” in your site.
    • core-questions 6y ago
      I see you've rediscovered the publisher vs. platform dichotomy! Those of us who believe in free speech understand that people will say things we don't like, and further understand that the sacrifice of ignoring content we dislike is worth it for the greater principle. I know this is difficult when people are saying things you believe to be untrue, but thus far nobody has come up with an alternative that doesn't result in censorship or end up having an unrealistically high moderation cost.
      • hengheng 6y ago
        I've never heard this type of speech at a bar when I asked why somebody wasn't shown the door. I guess they didn't have a greater principle. One core value that a platform could have is common decency, which is not the same as censorship, but it is given up even easier than what your argument calls free speech.
        • minkzilla 6y ago
          That’s because one bouncer can see everyone in the bar. I have heard this type of speech in regards to nations, aka a much larger scale.
        • seph-reed 6y ago
          Terrible metaphor. How do you suggest making a platform which allows good content while disallowing bad? Also, how do you expect to be able to define these things? Remember: every person you pay to moderate has to be able to discern good from bad in as little time as possible. Even less time than that.
• perakojotgenije 6y ago
  YouTube's Copyright System Isn't Broken. The World's Is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jwo5qc78QU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jwo5qc78QU
  • avianlyric 6y ago
    I think if you watch OPs video you would agree that in this case YouTubes systems is also broken. It’s kind of ridiculous that YouTube accept claims against an entire video without _any_ evidence, or even a description of what copyrighted material is being infringed on. Instead it seems that YouTube will simply let someone claim that a video has copyrighted content without explanation (and in violation of the DMCA), and delete creators based on that.
    • izacus 6y ago
      Americans have setup the DMCA law in a way that content must be taken off without evidence (with widespread support on HN no less), so this one really isn't on YouTube.
      • avianlyric 6y ago
        If you read the DMCA you would know that at a minimum a DMCA notice needs to describe the copyrighted work being infringed upon (i.e. explain what has been stolen). You can’t just go and claim that a video or other content infringes on a copyright somewhere. You must state which copyright is being infringed upon. > (ii) Identification of the copyrighted work claimed to have been infringed, or, if multiple copyrighted works at a single online site are covered by a single notification, a representative list of such works at that site. [1] [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/512 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/512
  • dalbasal 6y ago
    Possibly, but the Google copyright system is a large part of the world's copyright system... and more broken then the actual legal one.
  • 6y ago
• fnord77 6y ago
  soviet behavior
• mehrdadn 6y ago
  It seems to me they might be speaking past each other? 1. He's trying to figure out which video infringed on what work. 2. YouTube is refusing by saying they don't know which part of which video infringed on other work. Not sure who's miscommunicating or what the reason is, but based on what he says, it seems this is what's happening. Anyone know if this sounds accurate?
  • notRobot 6y ago
    > He's trying to figure out which video infringed on what work. He knows which videos strikes were issued on. He doesn't know what he did wrong. Like he says in the video, he isn't provided with any timestamps or details about what has entails those strikes and the channel deletion
    • mehrdadn 6y ago
      Yeah you're right. It's confusing to me because he seems to claim different things at different points in the video. At one point he says he doesn't know specifically which part of which video is claimed to infringe on what, whereas in so many other parts he says Google doesn't have any details whatsoever, or (like in 4:48) he suggests Google is lying when it seems like he's actually conflating Google's mentions of details of the infringing work with the infringed work.
    • s1artibartfast 6y ago
      >He doesn't know what he did wrong I think it is obvious, he was playing a copyrighted song, as he does in nearly all of his videos.
• bagels 6y ago
  Youtubers should unionize.
  • qayxc 6y ago
    Youtubers aren't employees, though - they're independent businesses (if they actually make money from it) that use YT as their platform. The possibility of getting shut down for arbitrary reasons is part of the entrepreneurial risk.
    • bagels 6y ago
      It's not easy, but I think if they did get a critical mass, they could make a difference esp. if they are willing to collectively harm revenue (stop publishing and remove existing videos)
    • bagels 6y ago
      Further, an alternative is to form trade groups.
• huffmsa 6y ago
  The real question (not my own): Why hasn't youtube built any tooling for creators? Not a single editing tool, let alone a whole suite. You're expected to show up with your already polished in Adobe mp4. They could own a huge chunk of that market, yet seemingly willingly choose not to.
  • izacus 6y ago
    YouTube does have editing tooling for creators, at least it did the last time I uploaded something.
    • huffmsa 6y ago
      On mobile?
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• vwat 6y ago
  What happened to hacker news?
  • fortran77 6y ago
    What do you mean?
  • monoideism 6y ago
    We've been seeing this kind of shitshow from the big tech companies for years on HN. It's really the only way for people whose livelihoods are at stake to get a modicum of support, so I certainly upvote them, and have been for years (mostly under my former alt).
• boopmaster 6y ago
  Google support .... That’s the joke.
• imchillyb 6y ago
  GCP is not a platform, it's a toy. Google's products and services should be avoided by any and all corporate entities. If your business relies upon products or services in order to run, then stay the hell away from Google's Cloud Platform. Toys are for babies. Big-boys need tools.
  • Axsuul 6y ago
    I think most GCP customers would vehemently disagree with you on this.
    • imchillyb 6y ago
      When Google arbitrarily locks their developer account, discontinues a service, or places features behind a paywall, those customers will vacillate.
• joshlemer 6y ago
  What are the best alternatives to YouTube, if any? And if there aren't any, why is there so little competition in this industry?
  • Hasnep 6y ago
    Streaming HD video is expensive, that's why similar services like Twitch are owned by Amazon or have some alternative way of providing the same service like Peertube.
  • pier25 6y ago
    > why is there so little competition in this industry? How would you monetize it?
    • joshlemer 6y ago
      Same way that Youtube does, with advertising!
      • pier25 6y ago
        (I'm going to assume you're serious) You'd need to operate at a loss for years and streaming video is not cheap.
• masswerk 6y ago
  This is pure Kafka: prosecuted for unknown crimes, indicted by an unknown accuser, and lost in the system. Proud times!
  • masswerk 6y ago
    As it happens, I just found, hidden in a crevice of my desk, a somewhat yellowed half-sized fragment of a page, which, telling from the letters, could well have originated from Kafkas very own typewriter. Apparently, it's a fragment of an unfinished dramolet, which I will here present in it's original German form, due to its potential historical value. (I just translated the personae and the stage directions.) Warden of the Alphabet: Der Herr, wir hätten da etwas gegen Sie vorliegen… Y (in despair): Um Himmels Willen! Was wird wird gegen mich vorgebracht? WotA: Es ist eine Eingabe gemacht worden, daß Sie wiederholt, in gröblichster Form gegen das Urheberrecht verstoßen haben. Y: Das kann nicht sein. Wer bringt so etwas gegen mich vor? Wie? Warum? WotA: Das kann ich Ihnen leider nicht sagen. Y: Das müssen Sie! Was habe ich verbrochen? WotA: Ich kann es Ihnen wirklich nicht sagen. Sehen Sie (shows a slightly crumpled piece of paper with a single line of machine writing): Das ist in der Eingabe nicht angegeben. Y: Also kann ich gehen? WotA: Keineswegs, der Herr! Sehen Sie, da, da ist auch der Stempel "Notorisch". Das wird üblicherweise strengstens bestraft. Y (dejected): Wann ist die Verhandlung? WotA: Also, Verhandlung haben wir hier noch keine gesehen. Der Tag der Bestrafung wird noch bekannt gegeben. Auf Pardon sollten Sie sich allerdings keine Hoffnung machen. Machen Sie es sich bis dahin bequem, der Herr. Da muß doch ein Einsehen sein…
• kauffj 6y ago
  More than 25,000 YouTubers now publish to the LBRY protocol, with more coming over every day, for reasons just like this. The total reach of these creators is more than 400,000,000 people. We're just rolling out our mainstream video product explicitly designed to compete with YouTube @ https://odysee.com https://odysee.com To learn more about the protocol itself, check out https://lbry.tech https://lbry.tech
  • ocdtrekkie 6y ago
    I was kinda interested until I hit the "100 LBC to get started", and realized it was a blockchain/cryptocurrency thing.
    • ColanR 6y ago
      I vaguely remember this kind of tech being discussed a few years ago. It seemed legit at the time, though I have no idea if this particular implementation is.
    • kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
      It's a necessary "evil" for small fish brokering payments to hedge against oppressive regimes that control the banking system.
    • kauffj 6y ago
      There is no other method to allow local control over publishing identity combined with a coherent view of a decentralized network.
  • wazanator 6y ago
    No offense but I'm not interested in dealing with crypto to post and watch short tutorial videos.
    • deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    • Psychlist 6y ago
• danboarder 6y ago
  Creators that spend years and thousands of hours building on a platform deserve better representation. I am guessing that because he is mounting a protest, his case will get extra consideration and probably won't get deleted. This seems like the norm now with all the social and cloud platforms - people facing issues have to take complaints public to get any response.
  • qayxc 6y ago
    I agree, but in this particular case things aren't as cut and dry as they might seem. The guy claims that his videos fall under Fair Use, but we're missing a lot of details here to be sure of that. Generally you're not allowed to just publish cover songs without getting the copyright owner's permission first. Here's what a copyright lawyer says: http://suebasko.blogspot.com/2011/06/cover-songs-on-youtube.html http://suebasko.blogspot.com/2011/06/cover-songs-on-youtube.... Note that the YT Music Policies have been removed, so what he calls "outdated information" is actually relevant again.
    • danboarder 6y ago
      Thanks for that, but the referenced article is nearly 10 years old, the legal landscape has changed several times since, specifically in regard to Youtube automated content ID practices - in my experience if I upload a song over a video, ad revenue will usually just get diverted to the song author/label, rather than it getting taken down. It is in this context that his channel and videos have been up and 'fine' on Youtube for years with no problem, then suddenly... (I wonder if this has to do with Google moving music from Google Play Music to "Youtube Music" which is a new separate app and interface from the normal Youtube, see https://music.youtube.com/ https://music.youtube.com/ )
      • qayxc 6y ago
        > Thanks for that, but the referenced article is nearly 10 years old, the legal landscape has changed several times since Sync license requirements haven't changed and YT has nothing to with that. You're mixing up several things here and that might be where a lot of the confusion comes from. The songs you've uploaded might have been covered (pardon the pun) by YT's Music Policies, which consists of a list of songs that YT has license agreements for. In such cases, ad revenue handling, etc. is done automatically and you don't require a license. In other cases, however, it's solely under the discretion of the copyright owner to just grant you the license for free (i.e. they don't care), or demanding the content to be taken down, because a sync license would be thousands of dollars if not more. This is independent from any content ID practices, which usually only apply to master recordings (e.g. original songs or bootlegs). Copyright law is a complex (and IMHO messed up) topic, but we just don't have enough information here.
• EE84M3i 6y ago
  As an aside, I found it very refreshing to see a youtube video like this that wasn't full of jump cuts.
• ilyas121 6y ago
  Music channels are the hardest to survive copyright strikes even if you do nothing wrong and he's done well for years. Gareth, you're the reason I can play guitar so well and I'm so sad that some of the highest quality free lessons are dealing with this.
• zander312 6y ago
  Youtube is a garbage platform. Wish there was a more open alternative.
• PeterCorless 6y ago
  1. Get a lawyer 2. Contact the EFF.org
• jasoneckert 6y ago
  If you find these issues disturbing, help elicit change: https://twitter.com/eckmeister/status/1308916101300977664?s=20 https://twitter.com/eckmeister/status/1308916101300977664?s=...
• teh_klev 6y ago
  YouTube built their fame on the backs of small indy content providers, whilst eventually monetising them and taking the Lion's share of the ad revenue after their acquisition by Google. These days the real money comes from the corporate nipple, the 5-10 million+ subscriber base - CocaCola, Kanye, Madonna etc with millions, or hundreds of millions of views punting shit. They want us to watch that bland corporate bollocks, rather than sub 1M creators with actual useful content who's only crime is to try to control the attractiveness of their channels by reducing the number of ads or their timing. Especially ads that interrupt things like the flow of an educational video when the presenter says "and at this point we.....[AD ROLL]"...attention is then lost. Often I see glib comments such as "never rely on another platform for your income", but YT encouraged content providers hoping to grow them, and thus grow revenue for YT themselves. No other platform implicitly "promised" this sort of income. Now a good number of sub 1M YT'ers have ducked out of the new oppressive ad-roll thing, though not completely shutting down ads, but controlling ads on their own terms to make their videos at least less user hostile due to the injection of ads every 5 mins (this "feature"[0] seems to be the new thing, and back dating this rule to your older content, whether you asked, or not). Many of these folks are pretty YT savvy also know that if they don't run some amount of ads then they're leeching off of YT, and that's a fair enough thing, there's a bit of give and take, I don't expect something for nothing. A good number of sub 1M YT'ers have now diversified and set up Patreon accounts (YMMV) so at least there's some protection should YT decide you don't fit their profile any more and have to move elsewhere. Now about moving to Vimeo etc + running a patreon, in the video below, Louis Rossmann says he's even tapped out the "affordable" paid service with Vimeo, and the next step up on Vimeo for him is some kind of "Enterprise (ask for pricing)", so we all know what that means. Apropos the YT'er who's clearly having a distressing time, if YT can't and won't provide evidence of what they've apparently violated copyright-wise, then that sounds like an organisation that no longer cares about the creators that helped build their platform. And I also wonder why the complainants aren't taking out law suits against Google/YT to recover some or all of that revenue that Google pocketed due to "infringing" material....by we all know why, Google could sustain the defence of more lawsuits than there are atoms in the universe due to their size. The world has become very lopsided. And I really don't know what the answer is when these large corporate behemoths dominate our lives. Well I do but that's another discussion. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnekbCdp_AE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnekbCdp_AE
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• yters 6y ago
  But will you pay for a service where this won't happen?
• pdkl95 6y ago
  > I run a YouTube channel that is over 10 years old, has over 770,000 subscribers, almost 600 public videos, 120,000,000 views When writing software involved in managing a live, public, massively multi-user system, the traditional unix-style commands that are immediate, often silent, and capable of damaging effects become a really easy way to shoot yourself in the foot. Worse, some commands might let you accidentally shoot everyone's foot on a typo. The traditional example is accidentally typing something like "rm -f * .bak" (note the extra space after the star). For a good discussion of this type of problem, I highly recommend Bryan Cantrill's talk[1] about the time an operator accidentally rebooted an entire datacenter with a single miss-typed command. The general solution to this is building sanity checks into the software. The user just asked to reformat 500 hosts, but almost all previous uses olf the 'reformat' command affected less than 10 hosts. Maybe we should ask for verification from an actual human if they really intended to run this unusually destructive command. Why doesn't YouTube have this kind of sanity check in their automated takedown/strike/channel-deletion tools? Google wrote automation that can decide to delete a channel with a long history and many successful videos. Why doesn't that automation have basic sanity checks that ask for operator input when asked to do an unusually destructive action like deleting a 10 year old channel with a huge history? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30jNsCVLpAE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30jNsCVLpAE
  • Tokkemon 6y ago
    Because writing good software is haaaarddd. /s
  • tmpz22 6y ago
    Because building it won’t get you a promotion at google.
    • eru 6y ago
      That's what we called 'promotion oriented programming'.
  • tgtweak 6y ago
    Where is Bryan anyway he's been unusually quiet and I know he lurks on HN. bcantrill where art thou
• google234123 6y ago
  The channel got 5 DMCA strikes, that is why btw. Title is somewhat disingenuous.
• dghughes 6y ago
  This is like Rick Beato's channel he is constantly fighting false claims. Even some that are from actual record labels when Rick literally plays a few notes of a famous song, a cover not the actual band. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z7a-vh5OzU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z7a-vh5OzU
• simias 6y ago
  It sucks that Google doesn't offer better support, but are they really to blame here? Isn't the root of the issue IP and copyright laws and this very nebulous notion of "fair use" that seems extremely easy for IP owners to dispute and win? I see people in this comment section posting alternatives to Youtube but I really wonder if, should they become equally as successful, they could end up behaving any different. When you get thousands of videos uploaded at any given moment and probably a huge amount of DMCA takedown requests what choice do you reasonably have? If there's one thing Google doesn't want is to be sued by the copyright owners, so they always take the defensive stance of taking the content down until proven innocent, which seems cynically reasonable to me. That guy makes song covers. He claims it's non-profit, he claims it's fair use. The IP owner disagrees, issues a takedown. At this point Google either takes the content down, or starts a lengthy and risky legal battle on behalf of third party content that they do not control. I can't really blame them for not bothering. BTW, IANAL and all that but I'm not entirely convinced that his "non-profit fair-use" defense would even hold up in court. Surely he monetizes his videos on top of asking for donations and putting ads on his website. Given his number of subscribers he probably makes a significant amount of money from these videos. To be clear, I think ethically what he does is perfectly fine, but as we all know IP laws have very little to do with ethics. Focusing on big bad google is a bit simplistic here IMO.
  • ALittleLight 6y ago
    Yeah, I think it's pretty obvious Google is completely to blame here. Rather than say "Your channel will be deleted for unexplained copyright infringement" they could say "Videos X, Y, and Z contain copyrighted material at timestamps X', Y', and Z'. This material has been claimed, you may dispute it, because this is your first infringement we will allow you to correct the issue, etc." As the video points out, in order to make a copyright claim the claimant must specifically state the content that is infringing. Thus, Google knows what material is (allegedly) infringing and has the information to provide to the user. Also as stated in the video Google is not required by law to delete the YouTube channel. They've taken that upon themselves. To review, Google is being unnecessarily vague about what material is involved and unnecessarily harsh about punishing someone for an unexplained infringement. The copyright system is, no doubt, messed up - but clearly Google is completely at fault for their lazy and Kafkaesque actions here.
• pnw_hazor 6y ago
  I wonder when creators will start suing people who make vexatious claims against their content.
• qppo 6y ago
  There's a universe where Google - wanting to use their monopoly on video hosting and search for the forces of good and support the small content creators that drive their business - tells copyright trolls to pound sand and ignores claims made in bad faith.
• hashtagmarkup 6y ago
  At least 5 other times I've seen these stories reach the HN first page have all been resolved within 24 hours. Then everyone complains that even though they fixed this specific case, imagine all the other people whose channels aren't fixed! Even when the system works, everyone will still complain.
• ostravak 6y ago
  You need not use somebody other's work at all to get into trouble. Composing your own song, producing it and publishing it via YT is enough. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4AeoAWGJBw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4AeoAWGJBw (2018, now resolved)
• tgtweak 6y ago
  Youtube has had a scam video ad up for 3 days now advertising fallguys for mobile where it's just a page that forces you to install other apps. It was blatant and I reported it but YouTube can't be bothered to dispatch a human to look at it. I've seen more promoted Livestream scams in the last 6 months promising crypto giveaways than ever. They're equally blatant and impersonating tesla, spaceX and even Steve Wozniak. If Google can't be bothered to properly pay humans to moderate this they shouldn't be entitled to the billions in profit that comes from it. Edit: there you have it, 345k views and it's still up: https://youtu.be/hEI0McfLF9Y https://youtu.be/hEI0McfLF9Y
  • throw_m239339 6y ago
    Youtube isn't going to listen to you, Devolver on the other end might and Youtube might listen to THEM. That's the same thing with copyright scams and counterfeits on Kickstarter and co, Kickstarter doesn't give a flying "fork" about user reports until Disney or Sony send their lawyers. I also remember that blatant Youtube live bitcoin scam just after the Playstation 5 reveal which Youtube let run despite perhaps thousands of user reports. Youtube could not NOT know this scam was happening.
• S_A_P 6y ago
  The migration off of Youtube is slowly gaining momentum. It will only take music industry shills and trolls taking down a couple more of these sites for a mass migration. What’s the alternative content site? Vimeo? Twitch? Instagram/Tiktok? Something else?
  • blisterpeanuts 6y ago
    A lot of youtube-banned content creators such as Soph and Infowars have moved over to Bitchute.
• arihant 6y ago
  So I ventured into indie music production during lockdown and here's the thing -- covers are a notoriously vague area when it comes to copyright and licensing. It is easy and cheap ($10-15) to get a cover license. You are required to give out royalties. Most covers published on YouTube just end up losing monetization. But, and here is where it gets weird, what defines cover is extremely limiting. For covers, the song must follow the exact general tone and pattern of the original. Anything else is considered derivative work and an infringement, even if the license was bought. So if a guitarist adds a simple vocal explaining how he played it -- it is not a cover. It's infringement. Also, under DMCA, covers are not fair use. I also expect lesser music companies letting YouTube videos slide as we now have YT Music and these covers directly compete with the original. So they might just not be comfortable with getting your money, they also don't want a cover beating the original in playlists and charts.
• dperfect 6y ago
  I'm not a lawyer, and I definitely think the whole copyright system needs reform, but I believe there could be legitimate issues with the legality of publicly posting guitar covers as this person is doing on their channel. I'm not very familiar with the channel, but from the little I've seen, I believe the educational nature (and thereby fair use defense) could be debatable. Even if some of his videos are clearly educational, it seems that some videos are just covers of popular songs. And even if he's not using published sheet music to play the songs, he may still be required to have mechanical licenses, and possibly also sync licenses. Most published music has three licenses that could be relevant here: the mechanical license (covering the combination of notes, rhythms, and/or lyrics that make the song distinct and "recognizable"), the sync license (using the song along with images/video), and a master license (covering a specific recording of the song). From my limited experience (and confirmed here [1]), it appears that many of these videos probably require at least a mechanical license to be performed publicly on the channel. That being said, I absolutely agree with the sentiment that YouTube's handling of these issues is extremely problematic. They really need to start treating content creators with more respect and assume innocence until proven otherwise. There also needs to be more transparency into the process (and claims) so creators aren't left in the dark, along with improved ways to respond to erroneous claims. [1] https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/posting-cover-songs-on-youtube-what-you-need-to-know https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/posting-cover-songs-on-yo...
  • gfody 6y ago
    according to Tom Scott's very informative summary of all things youtube and copyright [1] there are seemingly reasonable alternatives to suddenly shutting down a whole channel - it seems like we're not getting the whole story as to why those were rejected or aren't being considered in this case? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jwo5qc78QU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jwo5qc78QU
    • londons_explore 6y ago
      Remember YouTube and its staff will never make decisions on the validity of copyright claims. They put their safe harbor position at risk if they do so. Instead they consider every copyright claim as valid unless legal proceedings tell them otherwise.
• jennyyang 6y ago
  The fact that Google/Youtube has zero support infrastructure should be evidence that they are a monopoly and engaging in monopolistic activity. If Google/Youtube were NOT a monopoly, they would have invested significant amount of money in customer support. However, there is zero. The only reason they get away with this is because they have a monopoly. They are saving hundreds of millions in support costs by not delivering any support. Unlike more overt monopolistic actions like raising prices, etc, what they do instead of increase their profits by taking away functionality that their customers should be receiving. The fact you can get all your work taken away because of fraud, and have no recourse is unacceptable. Yet there really is no viable alternative. I hope content creators band together and form a class action lawsuit against Google and break up their monopoly. It's disgusting.
  • bestnameever 6y ago
    > The fact that Google/Youtube has zero support infrastructure should be evidence that they are a monopoly and engaging in monopolistic activity. I'm not sure one has anything to do with the other.
    • rev0lutions 6y ago
      100% it does. it means they have no incentive to justify their actions to the market
      • kortilla 6y ago
        No, you can have a business model with no customer support without a monopoly. The potential lost sales are just part of the equation.
        • rev0lutions 6y ago
          i see what you're saying. yelp is a testament to your point. maybe it can be priced in even if its not a monopoly
    • xmprt 6y ago
• techsin101 6y ago
  copy right system is broken, so is the patent system.
• vincnetas 6y ago
  If you are not paying to google, you are not the customer. So no wonder there is no "customer" support for you, because you are not the customer.
• AHappyCamper 6y ago
  It's very upsetting to hear this. I've been planning a YouTube channel that discusses layman's philosophy - specifically How to be a A Happy Camper ;) and it's depressing to know that in 2020, the basic support system won't be there.
  • LockAndLol 6y ago
    If your exclusive goal is to make money, you might consider peertube, lbry, bitchute or an alternative site. You don't have to use YouTube.
• AwkwardPanda 6y ago
  Youtube is broken in weird ways man!
• l0b0 6y ago
  Ok, rant time. I used Google Drive to back up photos for several years, but after moving to somewhere with a different currency I naturally wanted to avoid those extortionate fines banks charge for multiplying two numbers together. I tried to use their web site. No option to change currency. Then I tried contacting support. What a shitshow that was: - They claimed it was trivial, but the web site just wouldn't cooperate. "You can't change your country because one or more Google services you're using does not allow you to change your country." Google Support were never able to tell me which service that was. - They suggested and I tried the usual restart, reboot, reinstall, clean cookies, try different browsers, login from an incognito window, etc. etc. - Then they asked me to delete all registered payment options and finally to cancel my Drive subscription, after which point of course I lost access to my files and I was no longer able to pay to reinstate access. After several months of support assuring me that they had "our specialist team working on this" not a single thing happened. Thankfully I had a big enough hard drive to store all the photos, so I just found another service (which has been rock solid ever since) and made a mental note to move off of Google ASAP.
• envolt 6y ago
  This also blew on reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/iyddro/youtube_terminates_10_year_old_guitar_teaching/ https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/iyddro/youtube_term...
• charliebrownau 6y ago
  No one will get proper customer support or ablity to have freedom of speech on mainstream platforms such as - Censorship, Fakebook, Twatter etc You can either keep up with the constant changing standards with zero real human support so you can get corporate hush money or use crowd funding/donation model and use free speech alt tech platforms such as - Bitchute + Dlive + entropy + Gab + minds 1. Either use censorship with lots of views with corporate ad money vs 2. or freedom of speech, donation/crowd funding with lower viewship Choose Freedom of speech or corpration hush money
• charliebrownau 6y ago
  Charliebrownau Recommended Alt tech List - 24/Sept/2020 ====================================================== * Fakebook >> Minds + Mumblit * Twatter >> Gab * Youtube >> Bitchute + UGETube (utahgunexchange.com ) * Streaming >> JoshwhoTV + Entropy * Google E-Mail >> Tutanota + Protonmail * Google & DDG Search >> swisscows/SearX/Qwant * Google Maps >> OpenStreetMap * Podcast hosting >> Spreaker * Medium >> Publish0x * Skype/video chat >> Jitsi Meet * Whatsapp/fb/etc >> Session /Matrix / Delta.chat /Self hosted XMPP * Discord >> Mumble or SIP or Matrix * Reddit >> Poal.co + Voat * Wiki >> infogalactic * Free image site >> pic8.co or imgtc or tineye * meetup.com >> @GetTogether * Instagram >> pixiv.net * Streaming chat/superchat >> Entropy * Xsplit >> OBS * Pateron >> Subscribestar + superfanz.co * Spreadshirt + teespring >> redbubble / zazzle censor * MS Win 8/8.1/10 >> Linux OS (PC) * MS Office >> Libreoffice * MacOSX >> Elementary OS (PC) * Android >> Lineage OS * Playstore/fdroid >> Aptoide/Apkpure * Alt Mobile Phone >> Pinephone * Alt Laptop >> Pinebook or Raspi * VPN (home PC) >> Mullvad VPN * DNS (home PC) >> DNS.Watch * Domain >> Epik & Unstoppable Domains * Hosting >> Vultr VPS * Maillist/mailchimp >> Mailcow Mailing list * view Youtube anon+Privacy - https://instances.invidio.us/ https://instances.invidio.us/ * View twatter anon+privacy - https://nitter.net/ https://nitter.net/ #free-speech #alt-tech #censorship #opensource #2030
• edpichler 6y ago
  Imagine how much of this happens with content creators without we being aware of it. Google is too powerful, they really need competition. They will never fix this without real competition.
• aagha 6y ago
  If you want, you could re-tweet at the CEO of YouTube: https://twitter.com/aagha/status/1309014213667549185 https://twitter.com/aagha/status/1309014213667549185
• mlang23 6y ago
  I have been spending the last year listening to audiobooks illegally posted to youtube. It is obvious (to me) that youtube is deliberately not removing this sort of content in a timely matter because it actually serves them well. Users like it, and audible is apparently not really persuing YouTube for what they allow to happen. I even get audible ads while listening to audiobooks stolen from audible and uploaded to some (probably hacked) youtube account. How weird is that? And then, there are numberous stories of people with legit content that are being removed or demonetized. Have a non-WHO opinion on covid? Bang, you're gone. Have a pirated audiobook online with 100k views, nah, no problem! I wonder how long it will take until youtube is held liable for copyright infringments. They are obviously playing a two-sided game.
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• birracerveza 6y ago
  Here is my pet theory. Most of YouTube's content moderation work is performed by an AI that was given the power to delete videos and channels, without informing anyone, including the human part of YT support, of its artificial nature, instead passing it off as some kind of "content oversight council" or something along those lines, and having someone occasionally write communications on its behalf. It would explain the absolutely massive discrepancy between the public and the content moderators: there are often highly morally questionable videos and channels that are still up to this day, while relatively minor offenders are often struck down with no option of recourse for seemingly no reason.
• dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
  This story has two aspects: ethical and legal. As for the former, it's debatable, depending on which side you are on. As for the legal aspect, it's very simple: https://flypaper.soundfly.com/hustle/how-to-legally-cover-a-song/#:~:text=There%20are%20rules%20about%20cover,system%20is%20called%20compulsory%20licensing.&text=Anyone%20can%20cover%20anyone%20else's,(that's%20the%20licensing%20part https://flypaper.soundfly.com/hustle/how-to-legally-cover-a-...). So they can do these covers perfectly legally, as long as they pay the fees, that's all.
• burai 6y ago
  I do have my personal email in a Google Apps, but have a @gmail account for other stuff. I decided to try to set up a family account for my kid. After testing it I decided at this point it's still not needed so I deleted the account. Next day I received a notification Google was terminating my account with the message "It looks like it was being used in a way that violated Google's policies." Had to appeal the decision and they restored it, no explanation given. Google customer support is awful. I decided to move my professional email from Google Apps. I don't feel comfortable using a company that can decide to lock your out from your personal stuff without warning and a proper explanation.
• kebman 6y ago
  If every creator were personally responsible for their contents, this wouldn't be a problem. As it stands, YouTube is in the gray area of perhaps being a platform (akin to USPS) but too often taking on the appearance of a publisher (akin to Penguin Random House). Thus complaints are directed at YouTube, and not the creator. And since YouTube cannot possibly look into what every creator is doing, they're incentivized to simply delete the accused, despite of the long-standing democratic priciple of the presumption of innocence. (Which is backed by the phrase “Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat.”)
• idkwhoiam 6y ago
  Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Content creators should diversify & upload their videos to vimeo or other platforms in addition to youtube. As a result these alternative platforms would grow & may become significant enough to compete with youtube.
• cannabis_sam 6y ago
  Youtube has to choose between accepting the onerous terms of the three major record labels (sony, universal and warner) who control a majority of human musical output from the last 100 years, or get sued to high heaven for distributing music without a license... Why should three private companies have a government protected, international, monopoly on our collective human music culture? Obviously, they shouldn’t...
• tverrbjelke 6y ago
  JUUST on the way to re-learn some guitar skills. So this is my desperate effort to get some of his tutorials to me... (from his youtube channel playlists)… Sad. I also downloaded the related free tabs from his website https://www.goliathguitartutorials.com/index.html https://www.goliathguitartutorials.com/index.html $ pip install youtube-dl $ cat downloadlist.txt https://youtu.be/w9uYlCO23Sg https://youtu.be/w9uYlCO23Sg https://youtu.be/7sgzu9dgUOI https://youtu.be/7sgzu9dgUOI https://youtu.be/6wTvMH-ZO_c https://youtu.be/6wTvMH-ZO_c https://youtu.be/XJ_005RKzTI https://youtu.be/XJ_005RKzTI https://youtu.be/kZAxhlZtafA https://youtu.be/kZAxhlZtafA https://youtu.be/Q1zCsu0swh8 https://youtu.be/Q1zCsu0swh8 https://youtu.be/0unXcEeL_U0 https://youtu.be/0unXcEeL_U0 https://youtu.be/I8UKTLS-Aj8 https://youtu.be/I8UKTLS-Aj8 https://youtu.be/r3bTX5hlplQ https://youtu.be/r3bTX5hlplQ https://youtu.be/q49yJNOldfk https://youtu.be/q49yJNOldfk https://youtu.be/tLNDdRC6q30 https://youtu.be/tLNDdRC6q30 https://youtu.be/060ClJ8BQqA https://youtu.be/060ClJ8BQqA https://youtu.be/xBrHmVd7AXU https://youtu.be/xBrHmVd7AXU https://youtu.be/Kt4N5MCIWN8 https://youtu.be/Kt4N5MCIWN8 https://youtu.be/x8fymovqutI https://youtu.be/x8fymovqutI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ph4p1xb60Y&list=PLwCOjNCln2kZCe17YR8up4vvAELhfL9lP https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ph4p1xb60Y&list=PLwCOjNCln2... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCnDvkGy92Y&list=PLwCOjNCln2kZCe17YR8up4vvAELhfL9lP&index=2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCnDvkGy92Y&list=PLwCOjNCln2... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfXhXqV-ono&list=PLwCOjNCln2kZCe17YR8up4vvAELhfL9lP&index=3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfXhXqV-ono&list=PLwCOjNCln2... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nfoXrZWax4&list=PLwCOjNCln2kZCe17YR8up4vvAELhfL9lP&index=4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nfoXrZWax4&list=PLwCOjNCln2... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCDjNhC5Zn0&list=PLwCOjNCln2kYpxftN6-FAr_y24q5Z1iJK&index=1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCDjNhC5Zn0&list=PLwCOjNCln2... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMN5_0pQAQU&list=PLwCOjNCln2kYpxftN6-FAr_y24q5Z1iJK&index=2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMN5_0pQAQU&list=PLwCOjNCln2... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9O8_zytw8g&list=PLwCOjNCln2kYpxftN6-FAr_y24q5Z1iJK&index=3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9O8_zytw8g&list=PLwCOjNCln2... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8fymovqutI&list=PLwCOjNCln2kYpxftN6-FAr_y24q5Z1iJK&index=4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8fymovqutI&list=PLwCOjNCln2... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPT2lRHDxk0&list=PLwCOjNCln2kYpxftN6-FAr_y24q5Z1iJK&index=5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPT2lRHDxk0&list=PLwCOjNCln2... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BqFej5U53s&list=PLwCOjNCln2kYpxftN6-FAr_y24q5Z1iJK&index=6 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BqFej5U53s&list=PLwCOjNCln2... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfKq1SONL-k&list=PLwCOjNCln2kYpxftN6-FAr_y24q5Z1iJK&index=7 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfKq1SONL-k&list=PLwCOjNCln2... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oyhgp7vzBDM&list=PLwCOjNCln2kYpxftN6-FAr_y24q5Z1iJK&index=8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oyhgp7vzBDM&list=PLwCOjNCln2... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4IUrOGI0UQ&list=PLwCOjNCln2kYpxftN6-FAr_y24q5Z1iJK&index=9 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4IUrOGI0UQ&list=PLwCOjNCln2... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePY4XsjvrFE&list=PLwCOjNCln2kYpxftN6-FAr_y24q5Z1iJK&index=10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePY4XsjvrFE&list=PLwCOjNCln2... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUjUs3g_jMM&list=PLwCOjNCln2kYpxftN6-FAr_y24q5Z1iJK&index=11 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUjUs3g_jMM&list=PLwCOjNCln2... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ0rjC4vtwo&list=PLwCOjNCln2kYpxftN6-FAr_y24q5Z1iJK&index=12 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ0rjC4vtwo&list=PLwCOjNCln2... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An7CfmW4-kM&list=PLwCOjNCln2kYpxftN6-FAr_y24q5Z1iJK&index=13 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An7CfmW4-kM&list=PLwCOjNCln2... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0tEAXUU9Kw&list=PLwCOjNCln2kYpxftN6-FAr_y24q5Z1iJK&index=14 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0tEAXUU9Kw&list=PLwCOjNCln2... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xORtcxm7OWc&list=PLwCOjNCln2kYPkLfdRJkSpGnVbvzAolMU&index=2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xORtcxm7OWc&list=PLwCOjNCln2... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhcAxi6Yxmw&list=PLwCOjNCln2kYPkLfdRJkSpGnVbvzAolMU&index=1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhcAxi6Yxmw&list=PLwCOjNCln2... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfSlrT_us8Y&list=PLwCOjNCln2kbsE5OFfb8YLXEhOdnBA3iM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfSlrT_us8Y&list=PLwCOjNCln2... $ for f in $(cat downloadlist.txt); do echo $f; done
• Rudism 6y ago
  When creators opt for the easy-mode discoverability and pre-built audiences on YouTube, they're also opting for the severe limitations on their freedom to produce the content they want to that Google has every right to dictate. The solution here isn't to appeal to Google to change their ways, it's for more creators to pick competing platforms or go the self-hosted/decentralized route. I think it's still an option for higher effort content, using YouTube as more of a teaser platform to drive viewers to their actual website. It will definitely result in significantly slower growth and less eyeballs, but with the ability to still make money off platforms like Patreon (which most YouTubers say is their primary source of income these days anyway), the trade off of being in complete control of your own content seems like it should be worth it. Thinking about it, I suppose it's possible that more creators actually are doing this and I just haven't seen them because they're harder to find.
  • simias 6y ago
    That's my stance as well. I'm usually all for bashing Google and other GAFAs, but here the service they offer is pretty incredible and I can't imagine any serious competition managing to offer the same features with the same conditions. They're hosting petabytes upon petabytes of videos, transcoded to work anywhere, forever, for free. And you can even get a share of the ad revenue. I can't imagine how I would even begin to develop a competing website, I'd be drowned in hosting fees before I even make a dent in Youtube's user share.
• B1aZer 6y ago
  Decentralized video platforms FTW!
• runamok 6y ago
  I don't see any posters pointing to how broken DMCA is too. This could be fixed tomorrow if the law had significant penalties for copy fraud in cases of fair use. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyfraud https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyfraud Give the reporters 5 strikes too... If you cry wolf 5 times on things that are proven fair use or spurious or without proof you are banned for X days from submitting claims (at a minimum).
• coryfklein 6y ago
  Since Gareth didn't say he has licenses for the covers he creates and posts, then it seems clear he is breaking the law. Reporting a specific cover song video as a DMCA violation probably includes enough specificity to be a legal reporting without having to add, "the song from the whole video is under copyright". > Thousands of times a month, someone posts a cover song on YouTube. And whether the video is a live band performance or a toddler singing from her high chair, most of those cover songs are posted without permission from the song’s copyright holder—meaning they’re infringing someone’s copyright. > To avoid problems, you can obtain licenses that allow you to post the music and an accompanying video. [1] [1] https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/posting-cover-songs-on-youtube-what-you-need-to-know https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/posting-cover-songs-on-yo...
• mavsman 6y ago
  I think platforms like PluralSight could swoop in here and take away some market share from YouTube if they wanted to.