65 ms·

If a MacBook Pro runs hot or shows high kernel CPU, try charging it on the right

895 points by gkop 7y ago

nihonium 7y ago
I also noticed that on my Macbook 16", if I use my left ports for external monitors, fans are going louder sooner.
iamunr 7y ago
I've been plagued by this since I started WFH recently, been driving me nuts. My work from home setup has me on the left side, instead of right. Switched sides back, it's left me alone. It's -crazy- to think this is a real issue.
- redwall_hp 7y ago
  I always use the left, because it keeps cords away from the mouse zone, and I can let the cord run straighter to avoid stress (and prevent fraying). What the hell, Apple?
  - Piskvorrr 7y ago
    Well, turns out that "you're holding it wrong" is the Apple motto now.
  - Marsymars 7y ago
    It's a shame right-angle Thunderbolt cables aren't really a thing. I'm using a right-angle USB-C cable for my docked 12" MB which really cleans up the desk space.
Rebelgecko 7y ago
This is wild. IIRC, the TB3 ports in right side have lower bandwidth, so I've always plugged everything in on the left. I wonder if this is the reason my MBP would get sluggish while kernel_task uses a surprising amount of CPU? I always blamed the corporate spyware/antivirus. Maybe I was just charging it wrong
- diebeforei485 7y ago
  Anyone know if any 2018 and 2019 Macbook Pro models also have slower TB ports on the right side? I recall this being an issue with 2016 and 2017 models (edit: just the 13" models), not sure about more recent ones.
  - ashtonkem 7y ago
    I thought this was different between the 13” and 15” versions.
    - diebeforei485 7y ago
      You're right - the 15" models always had full speed on all TB3 ports. Do you know if recent 13" models still have slower ports on the right side, though?
      - ashtonkem 7y ago
        I do not, sorry.
      - akmarinov 7y ago
        Recent ones have full speed on all ports.
- ebg13 7y ago
  > I wonder if this is the reason my MBP would get sluggish while kernel_task uses a surprising amount of CPU? This happens to me as well while charging if the battery is below ~50%. Start recharging above 50 and it doesn't happen. At some point I took it to an Apple store for an unrelated issue and they told me that their diagnostics flagged a faulty sensor in the internal charging circuitry. I haven't sent it back yet for repair because of the turnaround time involved, but consider that it could be related.
- p_l 7y ago
  Yes - there is no cooling on the TB3 controllers, yet they put out a significant amount of heat, which causes a kernel_task internal thread to intentionally throttle CPU (which shows as high CPU usage). Been driving me mad till I hacked my dock to fit on the right side and connected power on the left, which resulted in better airflow and lower heat generation by the controllers....
RandallBrown 7y ago
Interesting. I've noticed the fans going crazy way more when I use my laptop from bed (charger on my left side) vs my desk, (charger on my right side). I figured it was the blanket restricting airflow (which I'm sure is still a big contributor). Interesting stuff.
save_ferris 7y ago
I was talking to a hardware engineer a while back who was heavily criticizing USB-C is because of all the ways vendors can abuse it. Turns out that the USBC port on the Nintendo Switch doesn’t comply with the USB-PD standard, which caused lots of issues for users who had third party charging docks.[0] There were accusations that Nintendo did this intentionally to restrict third-party accessories. After reading that, nothing I read about USBC surprises me. Sounds like another spec for vendors to abuse and ignore. 0: https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2018/03/could_switchs_non-compliant_usb-c_spec_be_to_blame_for_third-party_docks_bricking_consoles https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2018/03/could_switchs_non-...
- Dylan16807 7y ago
  The switch has issues, but the bricking was because one of those dumb docks was putting 9 volts on a pin that's supposed to be using 2 volt signals, if I read the spec right. And the switch tolerated 5 volts there, too. Putting more than 5 volts onto the non-power pins is such an obvious violation that I can't blame the spec for that fault.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- jinushaun 7y ago
  Don’t forget the mess with the cables! This has been discussed before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20443765 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20443765. USB-C is a complete mess. I can’t believe Apple dropped MagSafe for this. They could’ve made all the io ports type C but kept MagSafe for charging with an optional chargeable type C port on the right side.
pmiller2 7y ago
Couple of dumb-sounding questions after reading the link: * Left or right side relative to what? Is it my right when looking at the laptop screen? * Does this have any implications for reliability of Bluetooth transmitters? I use a mouse and keyboard that both plug into a USB-C hub, and sometimes have issues with mouse tracking, or keystrokes not being registered. My WFH setup has these things plugged in on the opposite side they normally would be, and I think I'm seeing this issue a little more frequently than I was in the office.
- mercer 7y ago
  * I think the right when you look at the screen. * I hope so! I use bluetooth mouse and keyboard, and have had similar issue on my MBP 2019 (the latest one). The issues only seem to crop up when I'm at my desk, with the power plugged in on the left side, and the USB-C hub (for external drives and monitor) on the right side. I now have a tiny bit of hope that swapping power and hub might fix these issues.
  - pmiller2 7y ago
    Switching the charging port to the other side has dramatically helped with the other issues I mentioned. That was a bit of a surprise.
- bouke 7y ago
  If you're using a Logitech Receiver (small USB type A RF dongle [0]) plugged into a USB-C hub, interference might be causing your problems[1]. I used to have a setup like that, but after switching to Apple's USB-C adapters (USB-C to USB type A and/or USB-C to HDMI+USB type A) solved problems. Those adapters feature a short cable between the plug / ports, I wonder that's because of the interference? [0]: https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/unifying-receiver-usb https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/unifying-receiver-usb [1]: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/docs/io/universal-serial-bus/usb3-frequency-interference-paper.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/docs/io/uni...
igammarays 7y ago
This is why a "universal" port was a bad idea. Just because a cable looks like it'll fit doesn't mean it will work. Charging ports have fundamentally different requirements from data ports and display ports. I miss MagSafe. Also, if the overheating issues are true then macOS should issue a warning when charging from an unsuitable port.
- cosmie 7y ago
  > Also, if the overheating issues are true then macOS should issue a warning when charging from an unsuitable port. It doesn't seem to be an issue with the port being unsuitable - the SE post mentions[1] that the right side similarly increases in temperature significantly when in use. It just doesn't trigger the same throttling behavior. Looking at an iFixit teardown[2], the ssd chips are located next to the left thunderbolt controller. I wonder if that may be why temperature spikes on the left side trigger more aggressive temperature management than spikes on the right. [1] Quote: Note that high temperature on the right side appears to be ignored by the OS. Plugging everything into the two right ports instead of the left raised the Right temperatures to over 100 degrees, without the fans coming on. [2] https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Pro+15-Inch+Touch+Bar+2019+Teardown/123653 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Pro+15-Inch+Touch+Ba...
- kalleboo 7y ago
  I had the same issue with a MagSafe 2012 MBPr (throttling when charging). It's just a lack of adequate heat dissipation in Apple's laptops, and with the USB-C ones you suddenly get around it by plugging in on the right side where there aren't enough temperature sensors for it to properly throttle.
- gruturo 7y ago
  The concept of a universal port was perfectly fine, it's just the implementation that is flawed. And before USB-C and Thunderbolt, "Just because a cable looks like it'll fit" DID mean it will work, at least for what an end-user would have been likely to face.
karmakaze 7y ago
MacBook Pro 15. I always charge on the left and USB-C 4k@60 video on the right. It runs the coolest and quietest. My work monitor only has 60W USB-C PD anyway (home does 100W).
kalleboo 7y ago
I thought I was insane and the only person this affected, I even recorded and uploaded a YouTube video demonstrating it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rox2IfViJLg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rox2IfViJLg
rurban 7y ago
For me charging left was better, but USB-C right was far better
SlashmanX 7y ago
I think this part of the comment should be highlighted more due to people simply thinking switching to the right side 'fixes' whatever the issue is: > Note that high temperature on the right side appears to be ignored by the OS. Plugging everything into the two right ports instead of the left raised the Right temperatures to over 100 degrees, without the fans coming on. No kernel_task either, but the machine becomes unusable from something throttling.
seanalltogether 7y ago
Are there any good macbook laptop stands that act as a heatsink as well? My current stand has rubber grips so while there's plenty of airflow under it the heat isn't being drawn away very well. I don't want to add a fan since that would add noise.
- michaelbuckbee 7y ago
  That's an interesting thought, but you'd have to have a really good seal between the two for it to work (think like processors and thermal paste).
- AdamN 7y ago
  I really like the mStand: https://www.raindesigninc.com/mstand.html https://www.raindesigninc.com/mstand.html It is solid metal with lots of airflow underneath.
  - tom_ 7y ago
    I also rate these stands - but it has rubber grips. You're not going to get any heat transfer from laptop to stand, so it's not going to act as a heatsink.
    - minimaxir 7y ago
      I have the same stand and it does absorb a good amount of heat when the Mac is running at full power (the angle helps there too), albeit not a true "heat sink". The rubber has negligible displacement.
  - DHPersonal 7y ago
    I use the 360 model, which adds a swivel option, and it's been a really useful and stable stand.
  - chadlavi 7y ago
    I also like this model. There's a little air gap between the computer and the stand, but being solid aluminum I figure it's going to move a lot more heat away than, say, a wooden desk surface or cloth-covered human legs.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
noir_lord 7y ago
I have the 16" Macbook Pro (work issued) and it does get very warm when you are charging and running a couple of monitors (1x1920x1080 and 1x4096x3084) even when not under a massive amount of load. It's fine because in that situation it's on a stand on my work desk and it's noticeably cooler when not runnig the externals when it's on my lap. Lovely hardware and it was a good move to switch to a Mac because the team I run had already standardised on macs when I joined the team but its one thing that makes me wish I'd stuck to an equivalent Thinkpad/Fedora if I'm honest.
- gnarbarian 7y ago
  Hard to beat a Thinkpad with Linux for dev work. a year ago I switched from a mbp to a Thinkpad with Ubuntu and I cringe every time I have to go back to the Mac in order to do something.
  - noir_lord 7y ago
    Indeed, my personal machine is a T470P (i7-7700HQ/2560x1440 and I upgarded the ram to 32GB) it's a little beast and Fedora Cinnamon is hands down my favourite host OS for development but practicially made me pick a Macbook for work since I'd be getting questions about stuff on a platform I'd never used, I like OSX generally but there are days where I still miss Linux (though iterm2 is phenomenally good, not aware of anything comparable on Linux which is a little ironic).
    - krob 7y ago
      there is a terminal emulator called terminator. It has a lot of nice features, including split screen keyboard broadcasting. very useful if you have many machines with the same configuration. https://terminator-gtk3.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ https://terminator-gtk3.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
    - mahesh_rm 7y ago
      Guake
    - arpa 7y ago
outside1234 7y ago
I have a similar (but different) thing - I find that external monitors only work reliably when plugged into the right side.
guessmyname 7y ago
Does anyone know if this also affects MacBook Pro 13” with only two Thunderbolt ports on the left (the ones without Touch ID)? Are these ports the same as the laptops with three ports? If yes, does this mean we (MBP13” users) have no solution?
- mzg 7y ago
  I've been having this issue with my work MBP, same model you describe. I don't think we have any easy solutions. Maybe a laptop stand can help?
- wilsonnb3 7y ago
  The MBP with only 2 TB3 ports run lower wattage processors (15w instead of 28) which may have an effect in this situation.
minikites 7y ago
It's incredible to me that Apple has maybe 10 major products and they somehow can't focus on any of them not named "iPhone". Between the keyboards, thermal issues in the previous Mac Pro, ignoring the iPad's software, and other issues I've probably forgotten, what exactly is their dysfunction?
- tracer4201 7y ago
  I feel like they did make investments in MacBooks, just not the kind I want. I care less about a thinner laptop. Keep the same thickness with a nicer screen and overall build quality. Apples focused abit too much on aesthetic over function, but with the recent 16” MacBook, they’re making course corrections. Personally I can’t figure out my development workflow on Windows. I tried the Linux subsystem stuff and IO was just too damn slow. 15 minutes to install a few package dependencies. For a while, I ended up running Ubuntu on another machine that I would SSH into for all my side projects just so I have my trusty zshell and all the nice package managers and other build tools.
  - thelazydogsback 7y ago
    > Personally I can’t figure out my development workflow on Windows Can you elaborate? How is your dev workflow os-dependent?
    - FpUser 7y ago
      Depends on what kind of things you're making. For example some of the products I have target Windows desktop, can't' build/test those on Linux etc.
    - tracer4201 7y ago
      It’s not OS dependent. It’s just that doing it on Mac let’s me focus on the problem I want to solve vs non value add stuff like just getting things configured. I’m relatively fast using zshell, vim, iTerm, tab space to quickly search and open a file or program, adding things to my .zsh rc file, quickly installing packages, etc. In Windows, everything is slower, and I generally feel disoriented. Something as simple as running docker wouldn’t work on windows. Apparently I need Windows 10 Pro edition... and I had the license too but upgrading would fail and rollback. It’s things like this that add up.
turtlebits 7y ago
Haven't noticed this on my 2018 15" i7. My monitor at work (2160p) and home (1440p ultrawide) are placed to the left of my laptop and always use both left TB3 ports for charging and display
- kalleboo 7y ago
  Also depends on ambient temperature. I never have trouble in winter, but summer is hell
dep_b 7y ago
I discovered I could charge two MacBooks on one charger by daisy chaining them, for some reason I didn't expect that to work. The second laptop didn't charge very fast if at all, but you can keep working while you left your charger at hame.
- frosted-flakes 7y ago
  Can you charge one MacBook with two chargers? Maybe that would spread the heat out a little more.
- ShamelessC 7y ago
  I've managed to "charge" mine with a Nintendo Switch adapter. Showed the charging symbol but still depleted battery over time. Just slowly.
  - frosted-flakes 7y ago
    The Nintendo Switch charger only puts out 39 watts, and I think the Macbook Pro charger puts out 96 watts, so it makes sense that it would charge slowly.
konradb 7y ago
I've only ever plugged my LG Ultrafine 5k into the right hand side of 2016 15 inch, but I find that if the room is warm (perhaps > 22 degrees C) I have 'kernel_task' apparently maxing out my CPU. Anecdotally until I discovered that aiming a fan at the underside seemed to make this problem go away. It doesn't seem to happen (that I remember...) when the big screen isn't plugged in.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
gchokov 7y ago
This is the best feature of the USB-C MBPpro. I don't mind getting hot on one of the sides because of it :)
- jonas21 7y ago
  Actually, that's a feature too. Feeling cold? Charge on the left. Feeling warm? Charge on the right.
  - Twisol 7y ago
    On the off chance you haven't seen this particular xkcd yet: https://xkcd.com/1172/ https://xkcd.com/1172/ It's a little scary just how often xkcd is relevant.
chadlavi 7y ago
holy crap
ateevchopra 7y ago
I've had this problem too for a while now with my MBP 2017. The left ports can't be used for charging at all. The moment I plug in the charger, the fans start running at full speed. I 'm having issues even on one of the right side port. I can't use it for anything. If I plug in my monitor, It shows me "USB Accessories Disabled" error. If I plug in my HDD, it just doesn't work. I've tried resetting the SMC and PRAM. Anyone had similar experience ?
mperham 7y ago
Also, 2016/17 MBPs have half bandwidth on the right-side ports, this was fixed in the 2018 refresh. tl;dr: charge on the right, monitors on the left.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- kalleboo 7y ago
  Applies to 13 inch only, 15 inch has always had full bandwidth on all ports
munk-a 7y ago
I really can't stand the trend to keep making things thinner - it's gotten to the point where it's hard to find a work laptop I can get through my company that comes with an ethernet port. If we can miniaturize stuff so well then can't we miniaturize it all to spread components further apart in a predominantly empty but tall case so airflow stops being an issue?
- diggan 7y ago
  I got a Lenovo X1 Carbon that is pretty thin and have a adapter for Ethernet, good enough for me and doesn't seem to have any performance issues. The form factor of the X1 makes me really love it. But when it comes to smartphones, I agree. They are getting thinner and larger, possibly to make it easier to drop and break or something, because I sure don't get it. It's hard to find a good, reliable smartphone that is around 4 inches today so I can hold it without worry with one hand.
  - PopeDotNinja 7y ago
    I have big gorilla hands and I can't really use my Pixel 3a one-handed. A smaller phone would be nice.
  - epanchin 7y ago
    I have the carbon too, but I also have a Dell which is a similar thickness but with a drop down sprung Ethernet port. Annoying Lenovo couldn’t fit the same.
    - fbnlsr 7y ago
      Maybe because Dell has a patent on that port?
      - xnyan 7y ago
        HP laptops use spring ethernet port too, even very cheap ones.
- 7y ago
julianlam 7y ago
> Note that high temperature on the right side appears to be ignored by the OS. Plugging everything into the two right ports instead of the left raised the Right temperatures to over 100 degrees, without the fans coming on. No kernel_task either, but the machine becomes unusable from something throttling. I feel like the top answer is missing the forest for the trees. If the temperature of the chassis rises past 100 degrees because a peripheral was plugged in, and degrades performance if all of the peripheral ports are in use... that's not a usable computer. Edit: Ah, 100F is 37C, so that's not so bad.
- jdsully 7y ago
  What part would thermal throttle at 37C? It can’t be fahrenheit.
- atonse 7y ago
  No it's got to be C. 100F is at most, luke warm.
  - rdiddly 7y ago
    100ºC is boiling though. You would probably smell solder rosin! Edit: Well TIL there is an awful lot of heat to get rid of.
    - trollied 7y ago
      Boiling for water. Don’t think your motherboard is made out of that :)
      - dr-detroit 7y ago
        if your computer is getting hotter than the surface of our earth's sun and you're not a gamer thats a major red flag
    - gruez 7y ago
      That's not too high, considering CPU start to throttle at approx 95C, and MOFSETs can go up to 115C
spiderfarmer 7y ago
I just bought an eGPU to solve the Macbook overheating problem. While that works, it made me mad that I had to spend 350 euro’s to fix a problem I did not have with my 2014 model, while having an extra unsightly box on my desk with a giant power brick.
- galuggus 7y ago
  Which macbook do you have?
  - spiderfarmer 7y ago
    16 inch i7 Runs freaking hot when driving a 4k monitor through thunderbolt. The secondary GPU seems to be the problem. I didn’t have this issue with my 15 inch retina Macbook pro through mini Displaport. Crazy.
- diggan 7y ago
  Heh, you effectively no longer have a laptop either (I mean, you do, if you want it to overheat I guess), so you spent money + changed it to a desktop computer, without really getting any of the benefits of a desktop computer.
  - laumars 7y ago
    While your comment is genuinely amusing it should be stated that the eGPU wouldn't be needed when out and about since you'd only be running the one screen. So in some ways having an eGPU is the best of both worlds: something equivalent to a desktop PC when "docked" at his desk but still a usable portable device when out and about.
    - spiderfarmer 7y ago
      Yes, but I absolutely do not need the 3D capabilities of that card. I just want a cool laptop with a large screen for remote work and a 4k or 5k monitor at home.
ycombi3 7y ago
MBP quality has been consistently less and less quality as the years go on. It would take me a page just to write out the critical issues my brand new MBP is facing. Apple has not done much QC with the updates to the point of an update temporarily wasting the computer.
OzzyB 7y ago
Just been going thru "Mac Kernel Task Hell" myself recently until I got a box of a cold gel packs [0] to act as my new "Macbook Pro Cooling Stand". Seriously, I know my Mac is a little old (2015 pre-Touchbar) but that doesn't mean I need to suffer like this w/ kernel_task eating 1,324% of my available CPU just because it's getting a little hot. Other routes taken: - Get a Fan App to keep the fans running at max 24/7, meh - Take the risk of bricking my one and only dev machine by disabling the kernel_task process altogether, no thanks No, just one nice ice pack with a cute tea towel on top, makes for a nice stand that keeps the aluminum unibody thingy nice and cool, sigh [0] https://www.uline.com/BL_2158/Cold-Packs https://www.uline.com/BL_2158/Cold-Packs
- danieldk 7y ago
  Take the risk of bricking my one and only dev machine by disabling the kernel_task process altogether, no thanks It has PID 0 and is part of the kernel. AFAIK you can't disable it (unless you build your own kernel).
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    You can't disable it at all; it is the kernel.
    - danieldk 7y ago
      ‘It’ refers to this specific functionality. If you recompile the XNU kernel you could disable the part that ‘reserves’ the CPU to cool the system. I am not sure whether is is still possible to replace the kernel, but IIRC some Hackintosh people replace it by custom builds (assuming that Apple released the relevant version already). Of course you probably do not want to do that, this is done for a reason.
  - OzzyB 7y ago
    Understood, what I was refering to is this [0] which seems to disable the kernel_task profiler, not the kernel itself. Again, I haven't done this, too scared ;D [0] https://blog.viktorpetersson.com/2016/01/03/how-to-fix-kerneltask-cpu-usage-on-el-capitan.html https://blog.viktorpetersson.com/2016/01/03/how-to-fix-kerne...
macinjosh 7y ago
yOu’Re CHArgIng IT wRoNG
talentedcoin 7y ago
Whenever I read this stuff now I just feel a little sad. For years OS X (macOS?) has been my go-to, but lately I find myself wondering why I’m paying such a premium for what amounts to some nice-but-problematic hardware and an OS with a bolted-on package manager. To develop iPhone apps I guess? I see some good points in this thread (e.g. iMessage). Maybe I’m just getting old. I’d rather just have a ThinkPad or an EliteBook running Ubuntu or, sigh, Windows. (I’m not a Windows fan but at least it doesn’t feel like it’s regressing like the Mac experience has been.)
- Helloworldboy 7y ago
  I feel like hardware problems on Macs are overblown, especially compared to the alternatives. I also don’t understand the idea that MacOS has been regressing, it seems like a weird hivemind take around here lately.
  - _jal 7y ago
    Agreed on the hardware. Part of it is perception - people expect crappy windows laptops to be crappy and break down. Apple is "supposed" to be perfect, and any problems are instantly literal front-page news. MacOS has had a bad run, though. It is substantially buggier than it used to be - I see far more weird silent failures than I have in a long time (pre-Snow Leopard), bad performance in some cases, etc. And then there is all the Catalina security-related breakage. Maybe that will work out for the bulk of users, but it broke the platform for me. That's the reason I don't see myself paying for another.
  - talentedcoin 7y ago
    I used to feel that way until it bit me my own self. I had to trash an iMac with a bad graphics card that was past warranty. That was a lot of cash down the drain. Then add the silliness (thankfully behind us) with the butterfly keyboards on the MacBooks. I can’t speak for the rest of us, but between the glitchy (for me) experience with Catalina and some of the unwelcome (to me) changes around SIP, I definitely feel less and less happy every time I sit down to do work on my Mac.
  - 7y ago
jonawesomegreen 7y ago
I still have the problem that my 16" MacBook runs really hot with a external display plugged in. There is a pretty good thread on the issue on the mac rumors forum [1]. It seems to particularly be a problem at 2560 x 1440 @ 60hz. [1] https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/16-is-hot-noisy-with-an-external-monitor.2211747/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/16-is-hot-noisy-with-an...
mgkimsal 7y ago
left vs right USB-C ports... I got a MBP 2019 at the end of May 2019 - it was just released a few days before. My USB-C ports on the left of the computer do not power an external monitor, only ports on the right. This doesn't seem to be called out in any specs, but and another MBP 2019, purchased in October... doesn't exhibit that. I feel like I got some weird 'in between' model. I can't find it now, but I'd thought I'd seen something in the 'system report' showing that some powers had more power than others...
- Aqueous 7y ago
  sounds like it might be a defect. i have a 2018 mbp with a monitor plugged into both left and right right now
  - mgkimsal 7y ago
    I could swear at the time I remember reading that one set of ports had higher power than the other, and... IIRC, that's true for the 13" models (or was for some years?) but wasn't supposed to be for the 15" models.
PaulHoule 7y ago
Dude, get a Dell.
- DonHopkins 7y ago
  Dude, you're busted! https://edition.cnn.com/2003/LAW/02/10/deli.dude.arrest/ https://edition.cnn.com/2003/LAW/02/10/deli.dude.arrest/
atonse 7y ago
This post on HN yesterday fixed my problems of the last 5-7 days. I use a TB 2 Hub hooked up to a 2018 MBP to 2 4k monitors, a USB mic, etc. And I've noticed the hub got really unstable whenever the CPU fans would go wild. Looks like it was the controller overheating due to the shitty thermals that Jony Ive's Apple seems to keep pushing out. (Still the Apple of today). Now that I've switched my ports in a different config, so far I've had no crashes in the last 2 days. I swear, I wish I didn't love macOS so much (or wasn't so heavily invested in it), or I'd happily ditch it for a really powerful thermally cooled desktop and use that as my machine. WSL makes this more palatable, but the unparalleled retina support on macOS, my 15 years of using it, and just habits built up, keeps me from leaving. (I felt the same way when I first moved from windows to macOS, but it was in my early 20s and I had lots of time to play with the OS)
- StavrosK 7y ago
  What's the state of hackintoshes currently? Maybe that would be a good compromise?
  - atonse 7y ago
    They keep getting better, but you always have the fear of one software update bricking your device because some engineer at Apple woke up on the wrong side of the bed one day and put in something in the bootloader that only works on Apple hardware. It would work if I kept this laptop as my backup (can't stop working for a day or two while I fix all that stuff).
    - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
      I said this repeatedly in a Hackintosh thread on HN last week: I have never had a point release break Hackintosh. Especially these days with bootloader kext injection, it’s really quite rare. Whole version upgrades are another story, but you shouldn’t just install those on a whim anyway. Also, if you’re on Hackintosh, Apple isn’t touching your bootloader!
  - throwaway888abc 7y ago
lnanek2 7y ago
I bet if you take a look at the motherboard for the year and model this happens on the CPU is closer to the left side than the right. That would explain the kernel task being configured to force idleness when left side is hot, but not the right side.
hguant 7y ago
Anecdotally, and I haven't done any serious testing of this, my work colleagues and I have noticed that on our 2017, 15 inch MacbookPros, wired Ethernet (either from a dongle, or a hub) is only reliable on the right hand side. One co-worker has realized he has to plug in his hub after boot, but before he logs in in order for the device to be recognized, if the hub is wired into his wall drop. There are obvious work-arounds to all these issues, but it's frustrating to have these sorts of problems on such an expensive machine.
- cmsparks 7y ago
  I have a similar issue with setting up my eGPU with Bootcamp. Apparently the macOS bootloader messes with the setup of a ton of devices so what I have to do is plug in USB C devices before boot, then plug in my thunderbolt devices in the bottom left port at a specific point during boot, then plug in USB-A devices after login. Anything else crashes the machine. Admittedly my use-case is niche, but I wouldn’t be surprised about similar things happening with other devices.
fatamorgana 7y ago
Its fine bro, just buy the 7000$ mac pro.
- dang 7y ago
  Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to Hacker News?
zitterbewegung 7y ago
I plugged my Dongle and my charger on the right. I also have turbo boost disabled but now I think I Have improved my thermals by ~6-10 degrees C. I did unplug my backup SSD though.
dariosalvi78 7y ago
Wanna talk about the keyboard? The one I'm using is the fourth I will have to get rid of because of the keyboard becoming useless. I once had an Asus eeePC, probably the cheapest laptop ever made, and it had a better life span.
petetnt 7y ago
One ridiculous thing I ran into was that USB-C hubs can block Wi-Fi that is on the 2,4ghz band. Solution? Wrapping it into foil somewhat works but I had to buy a new Wi-Fi access point. Sometimes rotating the USB-C adapters works too.
- gardaani 7y ago
  I have a similar issue when I use my external SSD with my MacBook Air. If it is connected to the left side, the WiFi gets blocked. If I connect it to the right side, WiFi works fine. I tried foil, but it didn't help except when it was connected to ground.
- petee 7y ago
  A name-brand hub, or Alibaba junk?
  - petetnt 7y ago
    Any USB-C hub, I'm using an official Apple one. It's a well documented issue.
diebeforei485 7y ago
Do we know why this happens?
sologoub 7y ago
When stuff like this comes up, I keep wondering how Jobs would have reacted to this...
- seppin 7y ago
  I think he would have yelled at an engineer to fix it while he took ayahuasca in Big Sur.
- artursapek 7y ago
  Would have cursed out a bunch of people and fired them, probably
j45 7y ago
This is a real problem on the 15" 2018 MacBook Pro. Quick summary of my experience: It turned out TB3 chip is on the left side by the power plug and was warming up too much by having both power and accessories flowing thru it for the internal fans to be able to cool off, and the OS was spinning up phantom kernel_task cycles to attempt to slow and cool down the computer. In my case case I was waiting for an 87W TB3 docking station to come along, and was in the meantime running 2 external monitors off the left side using Apple's dongles. This looks like the post that saved my sanity. Apple has a pretty serious design flaw in its MacBooks.
mattigames 7y ago
I wish running hot was the my only problem with my macbook pro[0], and certainly using the right side didn't help. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/g5lvbc/15_flaws_of_the_macbook_pro_and_macos/ https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/g5lvbc/15_fla...
dang 7y ago
This was discussed yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22949580 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22949580. Since this discussion is still charging, maybe we'll merge those comments hither. More interestingly: it was posted, but barely discussed, in 2018: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17843277 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17843277.
peterkelly 7y ago
The side doesn't make any difference to me. I have an LG Ultrafine 5k connected via thunderbolt. In order to use my machine for anything even mildly intensive while the monitor is plugged in, I've resorted to a 5-fan laptop cooling stand and a medium-sized personal cooling fan sitting next to it. I do live in a warm climate, but this is ridiculous. The only thing I can think of other than it being shitty thermal design is that the cable is dodgy, easily losing signal if moved the wrong way. Is this something that could affect it? I'm planning to order a new cable but I've seen so many reports of thunderbolt ports getting to hot and triggering the dreaded kernel_task I'm not optimistic.
woodpanel 7y ago
I have a 13“ 2017 MBP. What is annoying: - runs extremely hot, easily - fans are often on full force albeit nothing special is happening - before buying the ridiculously expensive AirPods Pro, re-connecting them (normal AirPods) after a disconnect often required a system reboot (to the point I’ve made the reboot part of my pre-meeting schedule) - connecting external devices usually requires adapters. With them too, when the adapter stopped working usually it helped connecting it on the right side (Reboots weren’t helping) - for some reason the adapter would work on the left side again after some time - as soon as I connect the external screen (not even a retina one) the fans go louder - time machine is a PITA. Every time it runs fans are blaring up, machine gets hot - even system is getting significantly slower. Even if it just backs up a diff of 150MB. And it runs multiple times a day, with no option of configuration other than no auto-backup at all. - Window’s decade old window management via shortcuts still doesn’t exist in macOs (you have to install a third party tool for that)
- ValentineC 7y ago
  > before buying the ridiculously expensive AirPods Pro, re-connecting them (normal AirPods) after a disconnect often required a system reboot (to the point I’ve made the reboot part of my pre-meeting schedule) Did you try resetting your Bluetooth stack? https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/reset-mac-bluetooth-module/ https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/reset-mac-bluetooth-module/
- mft_ 7y ago
  > before buying the ridiculously expensive AirPods Pro, re-connecting them (normal AirPods) after a disconnect often required a system reboot (to the point I’ve made the reboot part of my pre-meeting schedule) To add a contrasting datapoint, my (gen 2) AirPods have been virtually flawless for a year or so with my 15" 2017 MBP.
  - woodpanel 7y ago
    Well maybe it's due to mine being gen 1 AirPods ️?
caconym_ 7y ago
My work machine, which is a 15" MPB, has such poor thermal performance that I'd never consider buying one with my own money. My personal machine is an Air, which only gets hot when I'm actually doing something taxing. I can live with that. Generally I am a big fan of Apple products, but I don't know how they have the gall to ship these things with such hideously disruptive heat issues. Hopefully the new 16" model is the start of a swing back toward sanity.
mcot2 7y ago
Wow like 10 minutes before I saw this post I was running into the same issue.
stevefan1999 7y ago
why didn't Crapple fix this?
baybal2 7y ago
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22265549 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22265549 > Apple says "we are listening now, and here is a new cooling design," then it comes out to be even less adequate that the old one. I can't think of anybody else capable of trolling up their customers like that. Apple's thermal engineering is simply bad, and doing it bad is a company policy. There are no other believable explanation to me. Apple been promising to fix their thermal design for years on end, with each year's model being supposed to have better thermals than the previous one, but in reality all their designs were consistently crappy. The only explanation to that for me is that they took thermals as a subtle marketing feature, just like makers of laptops with crappy batteries always find ways to draw battery life from thin air.
- geniium 7y ago
  Hasn't the latest MacBook Pro 16 inches evolved in the cooling design? I thought it was much better.
  - zitterbewegung 7y ago
    In the 15 inch they undervalued the processor and got better thermals. In the 16 Inch they have different fan curves and larger thermal intakes and fans. I manually disable Intel Turbo boost now though. And for some reason when I start up my laptop it can reach around 90 degrees C if I have a bunch of things open (I guess it turbos when it is restoring previous apps open) but that makes sense though.
    - onepointsixC 7y ago
      How did you disable Turbo? I regularly hit 90 when I start running unit tests or compile xcode. I've gotten into a habit of preemptively setting the fans to max before doing anything like that now.
      - fwip 7y ago
        I use https://www.rugarciap.com/turbo-boost-switcher-for-os-x/ https://www.rugarciap.com/turbo-boost-switcher-for-os-x/ to disable Turbo Boost - it requires some weird permissions, but seems to work alright.
jokoon 7y ago
I still wonder if there are durable brands for laptops, since I'm not sure the new thinkpads are so good. I guess dell makes good "pro" laptops, Toshiba maybe? It doesn't seem there really are brands that can be considered as reliable anymore. Of course Asia has such a big market share on computer parts, it's not surprising that no laptop can work well after 5 years.
- Engineering-MD 7y ago
  I have found dell particular unreliable with bad design decisions (coil engine, overheating and fan nose) plus multiple hardware failures.
bootstraping 7y ago
For me, it's the reverse. Kernel usage spikes when I use the top right port for charging. It's fine if I use the left ones.
abakker 7y ago
Relevant recent experience: I have had a 2019 MBP with vega graphics card for a while. I noticed that recently it was running VERY hot all the time. I popped the bottom off (you need that damned pentalobe screwdriver), and found tons of dust jamming the fans entirely. Upon removing all the dust and cleaning out the fan ports the machine runs great again. If you're having cooling problems start with this fix.
olso 7y ago
Macs Fan Control, I basically never encounter hot temp, with these sane preferences https://imgur.com/a/d2IckFs https://imgur.com/a/d2IckFs
vic20forever 7y ago
You're charging it wrong.
apfsx 7y ago
Wow am I glad to know this now... I've had this issue on my 2018 macbook pro for a year...
btbuildem 7y ago
I've had issues with my 2017 MBP running really hot, but never connected that with kernel_task running at 150% CPU until now. I found a tool called Mac Fan Control, which lets you change the thresholds at which the fans kick in. I've been using it for a good while now. Laptop runs louder, but cooler. Today my machine slogged to a crawl, became basically unusable to the point of restart -- I don't remember which port the power was plugged into, but this definitely shed some light on the issue. Fan Control wasn't running, incidentally.
bogidon 7y ago
Someone should sell a cooling shell for MacBooks that replaces the aluminum underbelly.
hboon 7y ago
It's probably obvious but it's obvious to me only on hindsight: Do not block the ventilation vents of your MacBook Pros. Eg. this might happen if you use it on the bed (hopefully not for too long).
Cthulhu_ 7y ago
+1 Anecdata: I have a hub (USB, network, charging, HDMI) all going into a single USB-C port, really convenient. Watched the CPU usage of kernel_task for a minute while it was plugged into the left (which I have done by default), it hovered around 20-25%. Switched to the right side port, CPU usage for kernel_task dropped to around 4-6%. Switching back, letting it chooch for a while, still hovers around 5% but with more jumps to 6 or 9%. May be down to that side having cooled down a bit. I'll keep an eye on it, that's pretty interesting.

895 points by gkop 7y ago

I also noticed that on my Macbook 16", if I use my left ports for external monitors, fans are going louder sooner.

I've been plagued by this since I started WFH recently, been driving me nuts. My work from home setup has me on the left side, instead of right. Switched sides back, it's left me alone. It's -crazy- to think this is a real issue.

redwall_hp 7y ago
I always use the left, because it keeps cords away from the mouse zone, and I can let the cord run straighter to avoid stress (and prevent fraying). What the hell, Apple?
- Piskvorrr 7y ago
  Well, turns out that "you're holding it wrong" is the Apple motto now.
- Marsymars 7y ago
  It's a shame right-angle Thunderbolt cables aren't really a thing. I'm using a right-angle USB-C cable for my docked 12" MB which really cleans up the desk space.

Rebelgecko 7y ago

This is wild. IIRC, the TB3 ports in right side have lower bandwidth, so I've always plugged everything in on the left. I wonder if this is the reason my MBP would get sluggish while kernel_task uses a surprising amount of CPU? I always blamed the corporate spyware/antivirus. Maybe I was just charging it wrong

diebeforei485 7y ago
Anyone know if any 2018 and 2019 Macbook Pro models also have slower TB ports on the right side? I recall this being an issue with 2016 and 2017 models (edit: just the 13" models), not sure about more recent ones.
- ashtonkem 7y ago
  I thought this was different between the 13” and 15” versions.
  - diebeforei485 7y ago
    You're right - the 15" models always had full speed on all TB3 ports. Do you know if recent 13" models still have slower ports on the right side, though?
    - ashtonkem 7y ago
      I do not, sorry.
    - akmarinov 7y ago
      Recent ones have full speed on all ports.
ebg13 7y ago
> I wonder if this is the reason my MBP would get sluggish while kernel_task uses a surprising amount of CPU? This happens to me as well while charging if the battery is below ~50%. Start recharging above 50 and it doesn't happen. At some point I took it to an Apple store for an unrelated issue and they told me that their diagnostics flagged a faulty sensor in the internal charging circuitry. I haven't sent it back yet for repair because of the turnaround time involved, but consider that it could be related.
p_l 7y ago
Yes - there is no cooling on the TB3 controllers, yet they put out a significant amount of heat, which causes a kernel_task internal thread to intentionally throttle CPU (which shows as high CPU usage). Been driving me mad till I hacked my dock to fit on the right side and connected power on the left, which resulted in better airflow and lower heat generation by the controllers....

RandallBrown 7y ago

Interesting. I've noticed the fans going crazy way more when I use my laptop from bed (charger on my left side) vs my desk, (charger on my right side). I figured it was the blanket restricting airflow (which I'm sure is still a big contributor). Interesting stuff.

save_ferris 7y ago

I was talking to a hardware engineer a while back who was heavily criticizing USB-C is because of all the ways vendors can abuse it. Turns out that the USBC port on the Nintendo Switch doesn’t comply with the USB-PD standard, which caused lots of issues for users who had third party charging docks.[0] There were accusations that Nintendo did this intentionally to restrict third-party accessories. After reading that, nothing I read about USBC surprises me. Sounds like another spec for vendors to abuse and ignore. 0: https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2018/03/could_switchs_non-compliant_usb-c_spec_be_to_blame_for_third-party_docks_bricking_consoles https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2018/03/could_switchs_non-...

Dylan16807 7y ago
The switch has issues, but the bricking was because one of those dumb docks was putting 9 volts on a pin that's supposed to be using 2 volt signals, if I read the spec right. And the switch tolerated 5 volts there, too. Putting more than 5 volts onto the non-power pins is such an obvious violation that I can't blame the spec for that fault.
deleted 7y ago
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jinushaun 7y ago
Don’t forget the mess with the cables! This has been discussed before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20443765 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20443765. USB-C is a complete mess. I can’t believe Apple dropped MagSafe for this. They could’ve made all the io ports type C but kept MagSafe for charging with an optional chargeable type C port on the right side.

pmiller2 7y ago

Couple of dumb-sounding questions after reading the link: * Left or right side relative to what? Is it my right when looking at the laptop screen? * Does this have any implications for reliability of Bluetooth transmitters? I use a mouse and keyboard that both plug into a USB-C hub, and sometimes have issues with mouse tracking, or keystrokes not being registered. My WFH setup has these things plugged in on the opposite side they normally would be, and I think I'm seeing this issue a little more frequently than I was in the office.

mercer 7y ago
* I think the right when you look at the screen. * I hope so! I use bluetooth mouse and keyboard, and have had similar issue on my MBP 2019 (the latest one). The issues only seem to crop up when I'm at my desk, with the power plugged in on the left side, and the USB-C hub (for external drives and monitor) on the right side. I now have a tiny bit of hope that swapping power and hub might fix these issues.
- pmiller2 7y ago
  Switching the charging port to the other side has dramatically helped with the other issues I mentioned. That was a bit of a surprise.
bouke 7y ago
If you're using a Logitech Receiver (small USB type A RF dongle [0]) plugged into a USB-C hub, interference might be causing your problems[1]. I used to have a setup like that, but after switching to Apple's USB-C adapters (USB-C to USB type A and/or USB-C to HDMI+USB type A) solved problems. Those adapters feature a short cable between the plug / ports, I wonder that's because of the interference? [0]: https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/unifying-receiver-usb https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/unifying-receiver-usb [1]: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/docs/io/universal-serial-bus/usb3-frequency-interference-paper.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/docs/io/uni...

igammarays 7y ago

This is why a "universal" port was a bad idea. Just because a cable looks like it'll fit doesn't mean it will work. Charging ports have fundamentally different requirements from data ports and display ports. I miss MagSafe. Also, if the overheating issues are true then macOS should issue a warning when charging from an unsuitable port.

cosmie 7y ago
> Also, if the overheating issues are true then macOS should issue a warning when charging from an unsuitable port. It doesn't seem to be an issue with the port being unsuitable - the SE post mentions[1] that the right side similarly increases in temperature significantly when in use. It just doesn't trigger the same throttling behavior. Looking at an iFixit teardown[2], the ssd chips are located next to the left thunderbolt controller. I wonder if that may be why temperature spikes on the left side trigger more aggressive temperature management than spikes on the right. [1] Quote: Note that high temperature on the right side appears to be ignored by the OS. Plugging everything into the two right ports instead of the left raised the Right temperatures to over 100 degrees, without the fans coming on. [2] https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Pro+15-Inch+Touch+Bar+2019+Teardown/123653 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Pro+15-Inch+Touch+Ba...
kalleboo 7y ago
I had the same issue with a MagSafe 2012 MBPr (throttling when charging). It's just a lack of adequate heat dissipation in Apple's laptops, and with the USB-C ones you suddenly get around it by plugging in on the right side where there aren't enough temperature sensors for it to properly throttle.
gruturo 7y ago
The concept of a universal port was perfectly fine, it's just the implementation that is flawed. And before USB-C and Thunderbolt, "Just because a cable looks like it'll fit" DID mean it will work, at least for what an end-user would have been likely to face.

karmakaze 7y ago

MacBook Pro 15. I always charge on the left and USB-C 4k@60 video on the right. It runs the coolest and quietest. My work monitor only has 60W USB-C PD anyway (home does 100W).

kalleboo 7y ago

I thought I was insane and the only person this affected, I even recorded and uploaded a YouTube video demonstrating it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rox2IfViJLg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rox2IfViJLg

rurban 7y ago

For me charging left was better, but USB-C right was far better

SlashmanX 7y ago

I think this part of the comment should be highlighted more due to people simply thinking switching to the right side 'fixes' whatever the issue is: > Note that high temperature on the right side appears to be ignored by the OS. Plugging everything into the two right ports instead of the left raised the Right temperatures to over 100 degrees, without the fans coming on. No kernel_task either, but the machine becomes unusable from something throttling.

seanalltogether 7y ago

Are there any good macbook laptop stands that act as a heatsink as well? My current stand has rubber grips so while there's plenty of airflow under it the heat isn't being drawn away very well. I don't want to add a fan since that would add noise.

michaelbuckbee 7y ago
That's an interesting thought, but you'd have to have a really good seal between the two for it to work (think like processors and thermal paste).
AdamN 7y ago
I really like the mStand: https://www.raindesigninc.com/mstand.html https://www.raindesigninc.com/mstand.html It is solid metal with lots of airflow underneath.
- tom_ 7y ago
  I also rate these stands - but it has rubber grips. You're not going to get any heat transfer from laptop to stand, so it's not going to act as a heatsink.
  - minimaxir 7y ago
    I have the same stand and it does absorb a good amount of heat when the Mac is running at full power (the angle helps there too), albeit not a true "heat sink". The rubber has negligible displacement.
- DHPersonal 7y ago
  I use the 360 model, which adds a swivel option, and it's been a really useful and stable stand.
- chadlavi 7y ago
  I also like this model. There's a little air gap between the computer and the stand, but being solid aluminum I figure it's going to move a lot more heat away than, say, a wooden desk surface or cloth-covered human legs.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

noir_lord 7y ago

I have the 16" Macbook Pro (work issued) and it does get very warm when you are charging and running a couple of monitors (1x1920x1080 and 1x4096x3084) even when not under a massive amount of load. It's fine because in that situation it's on a stand on my work desk and it's noticeably cooler when not runnig the externals when it's on my lap. Lovely hardware and it was a good move to switch to a Mac because the team I run had already standardised on macs when I joined the team but its one thing that makes me wish I'd stuck to an equivalent Thinkpad/Fedora if I'm honest.

gnarbarian 7y ago
Hard to beat a Thinkpad with Linux for dev work. a year ago I switched from a mbp to a Thinkpad with Ubuntu and I cringe every time I have to go back to the Mac in order to do something.
- noir_lord 7y ago
  Indeed, my personal machine is a T470P (i7-7700HQ/2560x1440 and I upgarded the ram to 32GB) it's a little beast and Fedora Cinnamon is hands down my favourite host OS for development but practicially made me pick a Macbook for work since I'd be getting questions about stuff on a platform I'd never used, I like OSX generally but there are days where I still miss Linux (though iterm2 is phenomenally good, not aware of anything comparable on Linux which is a little ironic).
  - krob 7y ago
    there is a terminal emulator called terminator. It has a lot of nice features, including split screen keyboard broadcasting. very useful if you have many machines with the same configuration. https://terminator-gtk3.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ https://terminator-gtk3.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
  - mahesh_rm 7y ago
    Guake
  - arpa 7y ago

outside1234 7y ago

I have a similar (but different) thing - I find that external monitors only work reliably when plugged into the right side.

guessmyname 7y ago

Does anyone know if this also affects MacBook Pro 13” with only two Thunderbolt ports on the left (the ones without Touch ID)? Are these ports the same as the laptops with three ports? If yes, does this mean we (MBP13” users) have no solution?

mzg 7y ago
I've been having this issue with my work MBP, same model you describe. I don't think we have any easy solutions. Maybe a laptop stand can help?
wilsonnb3 7y ago
The MBP with only 2 TB3 ports run lower wattage processors (15w instead of 28) which may have an effect in this situation.

minikites 7y ago

It's incredible to me that Apple has maybe 10 major products and they somehow can't focus on any of them not named "iPhone". Between the keyboards, thermal issues in the previous Mac Pro, ignoring the iPad's software, and other issues I've probably forgotten, what exactly is their dysfunction?

tracer4201 7y ago
I feel like they did make investments in MacBooks, just not the kind I want. I care less about a thinner laptop. Keep the same thickness with a nicer screen and overall build quality. Apples focused abit too much on aesthetic over function, but with the recent 16” MacBook, they’re making course corrections. Personally I can’t figure out my development workflow on Windows. I tried the Linux subsystem stuff and IO was just too damn slow. 15 minutes to install a few package dependencies. For a while, I ended up running Ubuntu on another machine that I would SSH into for all my side projects just so I have my trusty zshell and all the nice package managers and other build tools.
- thelazydogsback 7y ago
  > Personally I can’t figure out my development workflow on Windows Can you elaborate? How is your dev workflow os-dependent?
  - FpUser 7y ago
    Depends on what kind of things you're making. For example some of the products I have target Windows desktop, can't' build/test those on Linux etc.
  - tracer4201 7y ago
    It’s not OS dependent. It’s just that doing it on Mac let’s me focus on the problem I want to solve vs non value add stuff like just getting things configured. I’m relatively fast using zshell, vim, iTerm, tab space to quickly search and open a file or program, adding things to my .zsh rc file, quickly installing packages, etc. In Windows, everything is slower, and I generally feel disoriented. Something as simple as running docker wouldn’t work on windows. Apparently I need Windows 10 Pro edition... and I had the license too but upgrading would fail and rollback. It’s things like this that add up.

turtlebits 7y ago

Haven't noticed this on my 2018 15" i7. My monitor at work (2160p) and home (1440p ultrawide) are placed to the left of my laptop and always use both left TB3 ports for charging and display

kalleboo 7y ago
Also depends on ambient temperature. I never have trouble in winter, but summer is hell

dep_b 7y ago

I discovered I could charge two MacBooks on one charger by daisy chaining them, for some reason I didn't expect that to work. The second laptop didn't charge very fast if at all, but you can keep working while you left your charger at hame.

frosted-flakes 7y ago
Can you charge one MacBook with two chargers? Maybe that would spread the heat out a little more.
ShamelessC 7y ago
I've managed to "charge" mine with a Nintendo Switch adapter. Showed the charging symbol but still depleted battery over time. Just slowly.
- frosted-flakes 7y ago
  The Nintendo Switch charger only puts out 39 watts, and I think the Macbook Pro charger puts out 96 watts, so it makes sense that it would charge slowly.

konradb 7y ago

I've only ever plugged my LG Ultrafine 5k into the right hand side of 2016 15 inch, but I find that if the room is warm (perhaps > 22 degrees C) I have 'kernel_task' apparently maxing out my CPU. Anecdotally until I discovered that aiming a fan at the underside seemed to make this problem go away. It doesn't seem to happen (that I remember...) when the big screen isn't plugged in.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

gchokov 7y ago

This is the best feature of the USB-C MBPpro. I don't mind getting hot on one of the sides because of it :)

jonas21 7y ago
Actually, that's a feature too. Feeling cold? Charge on the left. Feeling warm? Charge on the right.
- Twisol 7y ago
  On the off chance you haven't seen this particular xkcd yet: https://xkcd.com/1172/ https://xkcd.com/1172/ It's a little scary just how often xkcd is relevant.

chadlavi 7y ago

holy crap

ateevchopra 7y ago

I've had this problem too for a while now with my MBP 2017. The left ports can't be used for charging at all. The moment I plug in the charger, the fans start running at full speed. I 'm having issues even on one of the right side port. I can't use it for anything. If I plug in my monitor, It shows me "USB Accessories Disabled" error. If I plug in my HDD, it just doesn't work. I've tried resetting the SMC and PRAM. Anyone had similar experience ?

mperham 7y ago

Also, 2016/17 MBPs have half bandwidth on the right-side ports, this was fixed in the 2018 refresh. tl;dr: charge on the right, monitors on the left.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
kalleboo 7y ago
Applies to 13 inch only, 15 inch has always had full bandwidth on all ports

munk-a 7y ago

I really can't stand the trend to keep making things thinner - it's gotten to the point where it's hard to find a work laptop I can get through my company that comes with an ethernet port. If we can miniaturize stuff so well then can't we miniaturize it all to spread components further apart in a predominantly empty but tall case so airflow stops being an issue?

diggan 7y ago
I got a Lenovo X1 Carbon that is pretty thin and have a adapter for Ethernet, good enough for me and doesn't seem to have any performance issues. The form factor of the X1 makes me really love it. But when it comes to smartphones, I agree. They are getting thinner and larger, possibly to make it easier to drop and break or something, because I sure don't get it. It's hard to find a good, reliable smartphone that is around 4 inches today so I can hold it without worry with one hand.
- PopeDotNinja 7y ago
  I have big gorilla hands and I can't really use my Pixel 3a one-handed. A smaller phone would be nice.
- epanchin 7y ago
  I have the carbon too, but I also have a Dell which is a similar thickness but with a drop down sprung Ethernet port. Annoying Lenovo couldn’t fit the same.
  - fbnlsr 7y ago
    Maybe because Dell has a patent on that port?
    - xnyan 7y ago
      HP laptops use spring ethernet port too, even very cheap ones.
7y ago

julianlam 7y ago

> Note that high temperature on the right side appears to be ignored by the OS. Plugging everything into the two right ports instead of the left raised the Right temperatures to over 100 degrees, without the fans coming on. No kernel_task either, but the machine becomes unusable from something throttling. I feel like the top answer is missing the forest for the trees. If the temperature of the chassis rises past 100 degrees because a peripheral was plugged in, and degrades performance if all of the peripheral ports are in use... that's not a usable computer. Edit: Ah, 100F is 37C, so that's not so bad.

jdsully 7y ago
What part would thermal throttle at 37C? It can’t be fahrenheit.
atonse 7y ago
No it's got to be C. 100F is at most, luke warm.
- rdiddly 7y ago
  100ºC is boiling though. You would probably smell solder rosin! Edit: Well TIL there is an awful lot of heat to get rid of.
  - trollied 7y ago
    Boiling for water. Don’t think your motherboard is made out of that :)
    - dr-detroit 7y ago
      if your computer is getting hotter than the surface of our earth's sun and you're not a gamer thats a major red flag
  - gruez 7y ago
    That's not too high, considering CPU start to throttle at approx 95C, and MOFSETs can go up to 115C

spiderfarmer 7y ago

I just bought an eGPU to solve the Macbook overheating problem. While that works, it made me mad that I had to spend 350 euro’s to fix a problem I did not have with my 2014 model, while having an extra unsightly box on my desk with a giant power brick.

galuggus 7y ago
Which macbook do you have?
- spiderfarmer 7y ago
  16 inch i7 Runs freaking hot when driving a 4k monitor through thunderbolt. The secondary GPU seems to be the problem. I didn’t have this issue with my 15 inch retina Macbook pro through mini Displaport. Crazy.
diggan 7y ago
Heh, you effectively no longer have a laptop either (I mean, you do, if you want it to overheat I guess), so you spent money + changed it to a desktop computer, without really getting any of the benefits of a desktop computer.
- laumars 7y ago
  While your comment is genuinely amusing it should be stated that the eGPU wouldn't be needed when out and about since you'd only be running the one screen. So in some ways having an eGPU is the best of both worlds: something equivalent to a desktop PC when "docked" at his desk but still a usable portable device when out and about.
  - spiderfarmer 7y ago
    Yes, but I absolutely do not need the 3D capabilities of that card. I just want a cool laptop with a large screen for remote work and a 4k or 5k monitor at home.

ycombi3 7y ago

MBP quality has been consistently less and less quality as the years go on. It would take me a page just to write out the critical issues my brand new MBP is facing. Apple has not done much QC with the updates to the point of an update temporarily wasting the computer.

OzzyB 7y ago

Just been going thru "Mac Kernel Task Hell" myself recently until I got a box of a cold gel packs [0] to act as my new "Macbook Pro Cooling Stand". Seriously, I know my Mac is a little old (2015 pre-Touchbar) but that doesn't mean I need to suffer like this w/ kernel_task eating 1,324% of my available CPU just because it's getting a little hot. Other routes taken: - Get a Fan App to keep the fans running at max 24/7, meh - Take the risk of bricking my one and only dev machine by disabling the kernel_task process altogether, no thanks No, just one nice ice pack with a cute tea towel on top, makes for a nice stand that keeps the aluminum unibody thingy nice and cool, sigh [0] https://www.uline.com/BL_2158/Cold-Packs https://www.uline.com/BL_2158/Cold-Packs

danieldk 7y ago
Take the risk of bricking my one and only dev machine by disabling the kernel_task process altogether, no thanks It has PID 0 and is part of the kernel. AFAIK you can't disable it (unless you build your own kernel).
- saagarjha 7y ago
  You can't disable it at all; it is the kernel.
  - danieldk 7y ago
    ‘It’ refers to this specific functionality. If you recompile the XNU kernel you could disable the part that ‘reserves’ the CPU to cool the system. I am not sure whether is is still possible to replace the kernel, but IIRC some Hackintosh people replace it by custom builds (assuming that Apple released the relevant version already). Of course you probably do not want to do that, this is done for a reason.
- OzzyB 7y ago
  Understood, what I was refering to is this [0] which seems to disable the kernel_task profiler, not the kernel itself. Again, I haven't done this, too scared ;D [0] https://blog.viktorpetersson.com/2016/01/03/how-to-fix-kerneltask-cpu-usage-on-el-capitan.html https://blog.viktorpetersson.com/2016/01/03/how-to-fix-kerne...

macinjosh 7y ago

yOu’Re CHArgIng IT wRoNG

talentedcoin 7y ago

Whenever I read this stuff now I just feel a little sad. For years OS X (macOS?) has been my go-to, but lately I find myself wondering why I’m paying such a premium for what amounts to some nice-but-problematic hardware and an OS with a bolted-on package manager. To develop iPhone apps I guess? I see some good points in this thread (e.g. iMessage). Maybe I’m just getting old. I’d rather just have a ThinkPad or an EliteBook running Ubuntu or, sigh, Windows. (I’m not a Windows fan but at least it doesn’t feel like it’s regressing like the Mac experience has been.)

Helloworldboy 7y ago
I feel like hardware problems on Macs are overblown, especially compared to the alternatives. I also don’t understand the idea that MacOS has been regressing, it seems like a weird hivemind take around here lately.
- _jal 7y ago
  Agreed on the hardware. Part of it is perception - people expect crappy windows laptops to be crappy and break down. Apple is "supposed" to be perfect, and any problems are instantly literal front-page news. MacOS has had a bad run, though. It is substantially buggier than it used to be - I see far more weird silent failures than I have in a long time (pre-Snow Leopard), bad performance in some cases, etc. And then there is all the Catalina security-related breakage. Maybe that will work out for the bulk of users, but it broke the platform for me. That's the reason I don't see myself paying for another.
- talentedcoin 7y ago
  I used to feel that way until it bit me my own self. I had to trash an iMac with a bad graphics card that was past warranty. That was a lot of cash down the drain. Then add the silliness (thankfully behind us) with the butterfly keyboards on the MacBooks. I can’t speak for the rest of us, but between the glitchy (for me) experience with Catalina and some of the unwelcome (to me) changes around SIP, I definitely feel less and less happy every time I sit down to do work on my Mac.
- 7y ago

jonawesomegreen 7y ago

I still have the problem that my 16" MacBook runs really hot with a external display plugged in. There is a pretty good thread on the issue on the mac rumors forum [1]. It seems to particularly be a problem at 2560 x 1440 @ 60hz. [1] https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/16-is-hot-noisy-with-an-external-monitor.2211747/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/16-is-hot-noisy-with-an...

mgkimsal 7y ago

left vs right USB-C ports... I got a MBP 2019 at the end of May 2019 - it was just released a few days before. My USB-C ports on the left of the computer do not power an external monitor, only ports on the right. This doesn't seem to be called out in any specs, but and another MBP 2019, purchased in October... doesn't exhibit that. I feel like I got some weird 'in between' model. I can't find it now, but I'd thought I'd seen something in the 'system report' showing that some powers had more power than others...

Aqueous 7y ago
sounds like it might be a defect. i have a 2018 mbp with a monitor plugged into both left and right right now
- mgkimsal 7y ago
  I could swear at the time I remember reading that one set of ports had higher power than the other, and... IIRC, that's true for the 13" models (or was for some years?) but wasn't supposed to be for the 15" models.

PaulHoule 7y ago

Dude, get a Dell.

DonHopkins 7y ago
Dude, you're busted! https://edition.cnn.com/2003/LAW/02/10/deli.dude.arrest/ https://edition.cnn.com/2003/LAW/02/10/deli.dude.arrest/

atonse 7y ago

This post on HN yesterday fixed my problems of the last 5-7 days. I use a TB 2 Hub hooked up to a 2018 MBP to 2 4k monitors, a USB mic, etc. And I've noticed the hub got really unstable whenever the CPU fans would go wild. Looks like it was the controller overheating due to the shitty thermals that Jony Ive's Apple seems to keep pushing out. (Still the Apple of today). Now that I've switched my ports in a different config, so far I've had no crashes in the last 2 days. I swear, I wish I didn't love macOS so much (or wasn't so heavily invested in it), or I'd happily ditch it for a really powerful thermally cooled desktop and use that as my machine. WSL makes this more palatable, but the unparalleled retina support on macOS, my 15 years of using it, and just habits built up, keeps me from leaving. (I felt the same way when I first moved from windows to macOS, but it was in my early 20s and I had lots of time to play with the OS)

StavrosK 7y ago
What's the state of hackintoshes currently? Maybe that would be a good compromise?
- atonse 7y ago
  They keep getting better, but you always have the fear of one software update bricking your device because some engineer at Apple woke up on the wrong side of the bed one day and put in something in the bootloader that only works on Apple hardware. It would work if I kept this laptop as my backup (can't stop working for a day or two while I fix all that stuff).
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    I said this repeatedly in a Hackintosh thread on HN last week: I have never had a point release break Hackintosh. Especially these days with bootloader kext injection, it’s really quite rare. Whole version upgrades are another story, but you shouldn’t just install those on a whim anyway. Also, if you’re on Hackintosh, Apple isn’t touching your bootloader!
- throwaway888abc 7y ago

lnanek2 7y ago

I bet if you take a look at the motherboard for the year and model this happens on the CPU is closer to the left side than the right. That would explain the kernel task being configured to force idleness when left side is hot, but not the right side.

hguant 7y ago

Anecdotally, and I haven't done any serious testing of this, my work colleagues and I have noticed that on our 2017, 15 inch MacbookPros, wired Ethernet (either from a dongle, or a hub) is only reliable on the right hand side. One co-worker has realized he has to plug in his hub after boot, but before he logs in in order for the device to be recognized, if the hub is wired into his wall drop. There are obvious work-arounds to all these issues, but it's frustrating to have these sorts of problems on such an expensive machine.

cmsparks 7y ago
I have a similar issue with setting up my eGPU with Bootcamp. Apparently the macOS bootloader messes with the setup of a ton of devices so what I have to do is plug in USB C devices before boot, then plug in my thunderbolt devices in the bottom left port at a specific point during boot, then plug in USB-A devices after login. Anything else crashes the machine. Admittedly my use-case is niche, but I wouldn’t be surprised about similar things happening with other devices.

fatamorgana 7y ago

Its fine bro, just buy the 7000$ mac pro.

dang 7y ago
Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to Hacker News?

zitterbewegung 7y ago

I plugged my Dongle and my charger on the right. I also have turbo boost disabled but now I think I Have improved my thermals by ~6-10 degrees C. I did unplug my backup SSD though.

dariosalvi78 7y ago

Wanna talk about the keyboard? The one I'm using is the fourth I will have to get rid of because of the keyboard becoming useless. I once had an Asus eeePC, probably the cheapest laptop ever made, and it had a better life span.

petetnt 7y ago

One ridiculous thing I ran into was that USB-C hubs can block Wi-Fi that is on the 2,4ghz band. Solution? Wrapping it into foil somewhat works but I had to buy a new Wi-Fi access point. Sometimes rotating the USB-C adapters works too.

gardaani 7y ago
I have a similar issue when I use my external SSD with my MacBook Air. If it is connected to the left side, the WiFi gets blocked. If I connect it to the right side, WiFi works fine. I tried foil, but it didn't help except when it was connected to ground.
petee 7y ago
A name-brand hub, or Alibaba junk?
- petetnt 7y ago
  Any USB-C hub, I'm using an official Apple one. It's a well documented issue.

diebeforei485 7y ago

Do we know why this happens?

sologoub 7y ago

When stuff like this comes up, I keep wondering how Jobs would have reacted to this...

seppin 7y ago
I think he would have yelled at an engineer to fix it while he took ayahuasca in Big Sur.
artursapek 7y ago
Would have cursed out a bunch of people and fired them, probably

j45 7y ago

This is a real problem on the 15" 2018 MacBook Pro. Quick summary of my experience: It turned out TB3 chip is on the left side by the power plug and was warming up too much by having both power and accessories flowing thru it for the internal fans to be able to cool off, and the OS was spinning up phantom kernel_task cycles to attempt to slow and cool down the computer. In my case case I was waiting for an 87W TB3 docking station to come along, and was in the meantime running 2 external monitors off the left side using Apple's dongles. This looks like the post that saved my sanity. Apple has a pretty serious design flaw in its MacBooks.

mattigames 7y ago

I wish running hot was the my only problem with my macbook pro[0], and certainly using the right side didn't help. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/g5lvbc/15_flaws_of_the_macbook_pro_and_macos/ https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/g5lvbc/15_fla...

dang 7y ago

This was discussed yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22949580 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22949580. Since this discussion is still charging, maybe we'll merge those comments hither. More interestingly: it was posted, but barely discussed, in 2018: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17843277 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17843277.

peterkelly 7y ago

The side doesn't make any difference to me. I have an LG Ultrafine 5k connected via thunderbolt. In order to use my machine for anything even mildly intensive while the monitor is plugged in, I've resorted to a 5-fan laptop cooling stand and a medium-sized personal cooling fan sitting next to it. I do live in a warm climate, but this is ridiculous. The only thing I can think of other than it being shitty thermal design is that the cable is dodgy, easily losing signal if moved the wrong way. Is this something that could affect it? I'm planning to order a new cable but I've seen so many reports of thunderbolt ports getting to hot and triggering the dreaded kernel_task I'm not optimistic.

woodpanel 7y ago

I have a 13“ 2017 MBP. What is annoying: - runs extremely hot, easily - fans are often on full force albeit nothing special is happening - before buying the ridiculously expensive AirPods Pro, re-connecting them (normal AirPods) after a disconnect often required a system reboot (to the point I’ve made the reboot part of my pre-meeting schedule) - connecting external devices usually requires adapters. With them too, when the adapter stopped working usually it helped connecting it on the right side (Reboots weren’t helping) - for some reason the adapter would work on the left side again after some time - as soon as I connect the external screen (not even a retina one) the fans go louder - time machine is a PITA. Every time it runs fans are blaring up, machine gets hot - even system is getting significantly slower. Even if it just backs up a diff of 150MB. And it runs multiple times a day, with no option of configuration other than no auto-backup at all. - Window’s decade old window management via shortcuts still doesn’t exist in macOs (you have to install a third party tool for that)

ValentineC 7y ago
> before buying the ridiculously expensive AirPods Pro, re-connecting them (normal AirPods) after a disconnect often required a system reboot (to the point I’ve made the reboot part of my pre-meeting schedule) Did you try resetting your Bluetooth stack? https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/reset-mac-bluetooth-module/ https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/reset-mac-bluetooth-module/
mft_ 7y ago
> before buying the ridiculously expensive AirPods Pro, re-connecting them (normal AirPods) after a disconnect often required a system reboot (to the point I’ve made the reboot part of my pre-meeting schedule) To add a contrasting datapoint, my (gen 2) AirPods have been virtually flawless for a year or so with my 15" 2017 MBP.
- woodpanel 7y ago
  Well maybe it's due to mine being gen 1 AirPods ️?

caconym_ 7y ago

My work machine, which is a 15" MPB, has such poor thermal performance that I'd never consider buying one with my own money. My personal machine is an Air, which only gets hot when I'm actually doing something taxing. I can live with that. Generally I am a big fan of Apple products, but I don't know how they have the gall to ship these things with such hideously disruptive heat issues. Hopefully the new 16" model is the start of a swing back toward sanity.

mcot2 7y ago

Wow like 10 minutes before I saw this post I was running into the same issue.

stevefan1999 7y ago

why didn't Crapple fix this?

baybal2 7y ago

> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22265549 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22265549 > Apple says "we are listening now, and here is a new cooling design," then it comes out to be even less adequate that the old one. I can't think of anybody else capable of trolling up their customers like that. Apple's thermal engineering is simply bad, and doing it bad is a company policy. There are no other believable explanation to me. Apple been promising to fix their thermal design for years on end, with each year's model being supposed to have better thermals than the previous one, but in reality all their designs were consistently crappy. The only explanation to that for me is that they took thermals as a subtle marketing feature, just like makers of laptops with crappy batteries always find ways to draw battery life from thin air.

geniium 7y ago
Hasn't the latest MacBook Pro 16 inches evolved in the cooling design? I thought it was much better.
- zitterbewegung 7y ago
  In the 15 inch they undervalued the processor and got better thermals. In the 16 Inch they have different fan curves and larger thermal intakes and fans. I manually disable Intel Turbo boost now though. And for some reason when I start up my laptop it can reach around 90 degrees C if I have a bunch of things open (I guess it turbos when it is restoring previous apps open) but that makes sense though.
  - onepointsixC 7y ago
    How did you disable Turbo? I regularly hit 90 when I start running unit tests or compile xcode. I've gotten into a habit of preemptively setting the fans to max before doing anything like that now.
    - fwip 7y ago
      I use https://www.rugarciap.com/turbo-boost-switcher-for-os-x/ https://www.rugarciap.com/turbo-boost-switcher-for-os-x/ to disable Turbo Boost - it requires some weird permissions, but seems to work alright.

jokoon 7y ago

I still wonder if there are durable brands for laptops, since I'm not sure the new thinkpads are so good. I guess dell makes good "pro" laptops, Toshiba maybe? It doesn't seem there really are brands that can be considered as reliable anymore. Of course Asia has such a big market share on computer parts, it's not surprising that no laptop can work well after 5 years.

Engineering-MD 7y ago
I have found dell particular unreliable with bad design decisions (coil engine, overheating and fan nose) plus multiple hardware failures.

bootstraping 7y ago

For me, it's the reverse. Kernel usage spikes when I use the top right port for charging. It's fine if I use the left ones.

abakker 7y ago

Relevant recent experience: I have had a 2019 MBP with vega graphics card for a while. I noticed that recently it was running VERY hot all the time. I popped the bottom off (you need that damned pentalobe screwdriver), and found tons of dust jamming the fans entirely. Upon removing all the dust and cleaning out the fan ports the machine runs great again. If you're having cooling problems start with this fix.

olso 7y ago

Macs Fan Control, I basically never encounter hot temp, with these sane preferences https://imgur.com/a/d2IckFs https://imgur.com/a/d2IckFs

vic20forever 7y ago

You're charging it wrong.

apfsx 7y ago

Wow am I glad to know this now... I've had this issue on my 2018 macbook pro for a year...

btbuildem 7y ago

I've had issues with my 2017 MBP running really hot, but never connected that with kernel_task running at 150% CPU until now. I found a tool called Mac Fan Control, which lets you change the thresholds at which the fans kick in. I've been using it for a good while now. Laptop runs louder, but cooler. Today my machine slogged to a crawl, became basically unusable to the point of restart -- I don't remember which port the power was plugged into, but this definitely shed some light on the issue. Fan Control wasn't running, incidentally.

bogidon 7y ago

Someone should sell a cooling shell for MacBooks that replaces the aluminum underbelly.

hboon 7y ago

It's probably obvious but it's obvious to me only on hindsight: Do not block the ventilation vents of your MacBook Pros. Eg. this might happen if you use it on the bed (hopefully not for too long).

Cthulhu_ 7y ago

+1 Anecdata: I have a hub (USB, network, charging, HDMI) all going into a single USB-C port, really convenient. Watched the CPU usage of kernel_task for a minute while it was plugged into the left (which I have done by default), it hovered around 20-25%. Switched to the right side port, CPU usage for kernel_task dropped to around 4-6%. Switching back, letting it chooch for a while, still hovers around 5% but with more jumps to 6 or 9%. May be down to that side having cooled down a bit. I'll keep an eye on it, that's pretty interesting.