40 ms·

You might literally be buying trash on Amazon

414 points by mudil 7y ago

ptah 7y ago
good. recycling is the way forward
- DJBunnies 7y ago
  Recycling and reuse are different concepts.
- danepowell 7y ago
  Unless you're talking about, say, botulism-contaminated food products that a grocery store discarded and a dumpster diver "recycled" on Amazon. Not saying that exact case has happened, but surely there's a more nuanced take on this than "recycling is good".
  - droithomme 7y ago
    Well the only dumpster food item they confirmed sold on amazon the WSJ personally dove for and placed on amazon themselves. Then they quote some basically anonymous people saying they list trash salvage on amazon sometimes or did in the past, without verifying so or giving any examples of what sorts of things they sold. Is anyone other than the WSJ listing contaminated food on amazon? No evidence is provided.
    - penagwin 7y ago
      Given that it's potentially profitable and works, who cares if it's done in a widespread way? That fact that it easily could is the problem IMO.
      - droithomme 7y ago
        > That fact that it easily could... It's also easy to add poison dust to toys one resells, or razor blades to candies. However, both these acts are illegal. What is also illegal is what the WSJ did. Selling food items of any kind in interstate commerce, including all internet sales, is strictly regulated by the FDA, and sellers must have a facility license. https://www.fda.gov/food/food-industry/how-start-food-business https://www.fda.gov/food/food-industry/how-start-food-busine... > If you are importing food products, conducting internet sales, and/or shipping food products outside of your state, you must register as a facility. WSJ is not registered with the FDA as a facility and therefore is in violation of federal law. They should be charged, prosecuted, and fined. Given the violation was willful, egregious, and put people at risk, criminal prosecutions with jail time should be considered as well. Selling food taken out of dumpsters in interstate commerce is not legally permitted. Amazon's solution here is simple. Anyone listing food needs to prove they are an FDA registered facility. This includes all amazon properties as well. Amazon is also engaging in illegal activity if they are not FDA registered and following all regulations. Which they clearly are not. Enforce existing laws. Including maximum fines and prison time as necessary.
    - danShumway 7y ago
      This is such a weird response to me. The WSJ personally proved that Amazon doesn't have additional seller checks around food suppliers to make sure they're reputably sourcing their products. But because we don't have evidence that people are (currently) taking advantage of that, our response should be different? If my website has an XSS vulnerability that exposes my database, and someone tells me about it, can I downplay the issue by saying, "you don't have evidence that anyone is currently exploiting it"? Would you feel comfortable continuing to use my software if that was my response? > Attempts to list a protein powder, a pea-powder dietary supplement and a face sheet mask—all from the dive—elicited a request from Amazon for proof of purchase. Amazon does have quality control metrics for some items, but doesn't use them for food -- meaning that in practice buying food on Amazon may not be much safer than buying food on Ebay. In that sense, think of the WSJ article as a public disclosure of a vulnerability in Amazon's quality control measures. A vulnerability that we observably know exists because the WSJ personally verified that it existed.
  - turtlebits 7y ago
    If it's past the sell by date, then return it. I've gotten old items from the grocery store, it happens. I'm happy to give Amazon more leniency since their customer service is excellent and they make it very easy to return items.
- olyjohn 7y ago
  Yep, I honestly don't care where it comes from. Unless it's food. Is it in good condition? Does it work? Is it appropriately listed as to it's current condition? Then does it really matter that someone pulled it out of the Office Depot dumpster?
- Reedx 7y ago
  Reduce, reuse, recycle. In that order.
- turtlebits 7y ago
  Agreed, if it's sealed in the original packaging and in new condition, I don't really care. Of course if it's food it shouldn't past the sell by date.
- homonculus1 7y ago
  Bad, what's wrong with you? Recycled and used goods should be labeled so the consumer can decide if the price is fair for a less-reliable offering.
  - ptah 7y ago
    who's to say it is less reliable?
mvanbaak 7y ago
Anyone has a non-paywalled version?
- aikah 7y ago
  http://archive.is/c788v http://archive.is/c788v
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  This article appears to be exempt from the WSJ's paywall. It worked for me anyway.
  - mc3 7y ago
    Welcome to the non-idempotent web.
apotatopot 7y ago
I got an MSI motherboard from Amazon that was listed as "new", but was obviously heavily used and no longer functioning. No anti-static packaging, it was wrapped in cheapo foam paper and had what looked like scratch marks all over it. That's probably the worst shape item I've received, but I've also heard and got counterfeit baby items, which could be extremely unsafe. I'm being extremely careful with Amazon moving forward.
- giancarlostoro 7y ago
  That's insane, the worst any motherboard I own gets is dust and maybe overheating, but scratch marks all over? That sounds like someone who buys / sells hardware really often and just shoves parts in / out like it's nothing.
  - amelius 7y ago
    Or retrieved from a dumpster.
    - londons_explore 7y ago
      Deliberately destroyed and returned to make a competitors product get bad review scores or banned from amazon entirely.
      - fragmede 7y ago
        This is the reason Amazon's job is way harder than it looks at scale. Any system used to try and prove that an account is legitimate or not has difficulty telling when an account has been hacked/bought. A smart attacker will bide their time and will do very few falsified reviews. Everyone is trying to game the system, and beat the other "players", and are willing to resort to nefarious means to quash their competitors because money is on the line.
- mc32 7y ago
  To offer a counter narrative (although I do have gripes with Amazon) I’ve bought things that were labeled “open box” condition “new”. Everything was as advertised. Was about 25% off for what amounted to having to download a PDF of the Manual/instructions.
klyrs 7y ago
Extreme optimism: well this takes the punch out of previous reporting that amazon returns are being sent to landfill...
- droithomme 7y ago
  Returns are auctioned off in grab bags of random items. There's dozens of youtube channels of people going through these boxes and talking about how much they'll relist each item for, keep some items, throw away a lot. One key is you need to be near the auction site to personally pick up your wins since otherwise the shipping is too high. One exception is some lots are for entire truckloads of items, which sometimes come with free shipping by truck, and free the problem of what to do with a truckload of random returns such as 80,000 lbs of cracked large panel TVs.
SkyPuncher 7y ago
I'm now actively looking and buying from other places unless I desperately need something in 2-days or less and know exactly what I need. * Searching has simply becoming wading through pages and pages of Chinese junk with incorrect, misleading, or straight-up lies in the description. * Similarly, the average quality of generic items is so poor, I'm trending back to brick-and-mortar stores. Walmart may have cheap stuff, but at least they put some effort into maintaining their brand. * Who knows what product a review was actually written for. Lots of basic products are being sold to pump up reviews then being switched to a much more expensive item. * I've also noticed I'll pay for many name brand items on Amazon that getting them directly from seller or another retailer. * At least 10% of my orders from Amazon now have something wrong with them. What good is 2 day shipping if I need to return and re-order an item - taking nearly a week total.
- thearn4 7y ago
  > Lots of basic products are being sold to pump up reviews then being switched to a much more expensive item. This is the most frustrating of them all, reviews mean absolutely nothing anymore when the item can be switched out at will while keeping any old reviews.
  - organsnyder 7y ago
    The frustrating thing is that it seems like a trivial problem to solve. Changing too many attributes of a product should either be disallowed, or automatically wipe old reviews.
    - hk__2 7y ago
      > The frustrating thing is that it seems like a trivial problem to solve. Changing too many attributes of a product should either be disallowed, or automatically wipe old reviews. If it hasn’t been solved yet, it’s probably not that trivial. How many is “too many”? What happens if I change one attribute every week or so until I’ve completely changed the product?
      - 7y ago
dangerboysteve 7y ago
I've had a few open boxes or obviously used items sold as new and unused from Amazon over the years. Amazon always takes them back no questions asked.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
  Prime account? I have Prime and haven't ever had a problem returning things or getting refunds, which I haven't had to do much of anyway. I'm wondering if there isn't a significant difference between the shopping experience of Prime and non-Prime users.
  - JohnFen 7y ago
    I've been a Prime member for over a decade (although I've recently cancelled my Prime membership), and I've made very few complaints over the years. But one of the many things that has soured me on Amazon is that the last three times I needed to do a return (in every case because the item was damaged), it's been a huge pain in the butt. And once, Amazon even claimed they never received the return at all, and recharged my account for the ($20) item. I know that others have a very different experience than I, and I don't know what the difference is -- but Prime vs non-Prime doesn't seem to be it.
    - jdfellow 7y ago
      Funny enough last time I needed to do an Amazon return it was the easiest thing ever: they take returns now at Whole Foods locations so all I had to do was go to the cashier at the grocer around the corner. The Whole Foods acquisition is still an odd choice in my opinion for Amazon, but this was a great move.
      - JohnFen 7y ago
        That's fine if you happen to be near a Whole Foods. That said, Amazon also uses UPS Stores in a similar way as Whole Foods for this, and that's what I've used.
droithomme 7y ago
This article mentions a bunch of different practices, some Ok, others not, but seems to disapprove of all of them. Listing food items you got from the trash? Definitely not ok, whether listed as new or not. Reselling unopened clearance items you bought at Target or WalMart? That seems perfectly fine, what's the problem? Reselling unopened liquidation items you bought in a random grab bag at auction from a liquidator who bought them as returns from amazon? That seems fine as well. Should they be listed as new, like new, or used? That's reasonable to discuss. Reselling thrift store bought items as used? Sure why not. Tons of thrift stores list items especially books on amazon. It's one of my main sources of out of print books. Can't think of a thing wrong with this.
- JohnFen 7y ago
  > Reselling unopened clearance items you bought at Target or WalMart? I object to this because those items may have been purchased from retailers that I do not want my money to go to. But this, and the rest of the things you list, are actually OK with me, so long as the listing clearly states where the item was obtained from.
  - thenewnewguy 7y ago
    Your money isn't going to them, they already have the money regardless of whether the item is sold on Amazon or not. If you want to support specific retailers buy from them directly rather than via a marketplace that allows third parties to list on it.
    - JohnFen 7y ago
      Yes, but I prefer to stay out of that chain entirely. If someone wants to do business with an entity I object to, well, that's up to them. But I don't want to inject myself anywhere in that chain. > If you want to support specific retailers buy from them directly Which I do. The third party marketplace Amazon runs is a significant factor in why I've decided to reduce my use of Amazon to "last resort" status. Although I'm not talking about supporting specific retailers here, I'm talking about inverse -- intentionally not supporting specific retailers.
decebalus1 7y ago
I have mixed feelings when I see these articles popping up recently along with the general consensus on hackernews about the fact that Amazon shopping should be avoided. On one side I'm glad, considering Amazon has gotten too big and is in need of a readjustment. But on the other side, I feel that this is an echo chamber, considering the continuing growth of the company. I am privileged enough to actively reject everything that has anything to do with Amazon. I buy most things locally and sometimes I pay a premium for that. No regrets, I consider this the capitalist democracy of voting with your wallet in the free market. I have not bought anything from Amazon for the past 4 years, since the first time I heard about the warehouse working conditions. I correlated that with the toxic environment they are cultivating for white-collar workers and just decided that Amazon is a company I never want to deal with.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  >But on the other side, I feel that this is an echo chamber, considering the continuing growth of the company. It may take a while for Amazon to lose its good will, but eventually people will realize it's not worth shopping on a website full of unvetted cheap garbage, even if it saves a dollar. It costs a lot of time and effort to re-pack and return items. Even my parents are befuddled by Amazon's website now, where they have to carefully tip toe around a minefield of gibberish to make sure what they are buying is shipped and sold by Amazon.com. They say screw it, and just go to Target/Costco/Best Buy or any other decent website.
  - rootusrootus 7y ago
    I only speak for myself, obviously, but from my perspective if Amazon wants to stay successful they need to focus on reliability over price. I don't buy stuff on Amazon because I want to save a buck, I do it because I can just open up the app, pick what I want, and know that it will be here in a day or two. It's 100% about the convenience. I can tolerate spending a bit more, but I have an extremely low tolerance for counterfeit, low-quality, damaged goods, etc. If Amazon doesn't address this fairly soon, I'm probably going to look for other options, and once I switch, the odds of coming back are pretty low. It could be as simple as allowing me to opt out of seeing anything that is not "ships from and sold by Amazon" (and guaranteed no commingling).
paggle 7y ago
I just bought Christmas presents and I ordered only the books from Amazon. JetPens packages stationery for less damage, Uncommon Goods has a curated selection, and a wallet from Nordstrom has a better return policy.
- linuxlizard 7y ago
  I've spent waaaay too much money at JetPens. Good stuff.
- markkanof 7y ago
  Agreed with all the examples you list. The flip side though is I have been dealing with a clothing company (Zanerobe) who's return policy is store credit only. The main problem with that is their product line is really small, so basically my options are keep the pair of pants that I don't like OR just let them hold my money as store credit forever. Should I have read their return policy before buying, yes, probably, but I've gotten so used to places like Nordstrom AND Amazon giving refunds for returned products for any reason that it didn't even occur to me.
  - distances 7y ago
    Aren't refunds required for returns in US online sales?
    - markkanof 7y ago
      Unfortunately no. Had I realized this companies return policy, I never would have shopped with them.
    - paggle 7y ago
      The US tends to have very few federal laws of this type. Some states have them.
- dullroar 7y ago
  OK, if I go bankrupt now because of discovering JetPens, it is your fault!
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
paggle 7y ago
This article finally captured the truth about Amazon - that it’s just eBay, and should be used for the same purchases: things you can’t get anywhere else and things that are impossible to screw up.
- 4ntonius8lock 7y ago
  Actually with ebay I can more easily trust. Because they don't co-mingle, I know that someone with 100,000 positive reviews on ebay is unlikely to sell a counterfeit. With amazon I don't have that trust, since even if the seller is great, one single bad actor, who isn't the person I'm buying from, could infiltrate the system causing me to get a counterfeit.
  - lame-robot-hoax 7y ago
    Exactly, despite them working on commingling and counterfeits, I’m still super weary of ordering anything cosmetic on Amazon. Like, face serums or moisturizers. I’m weary of rubbing anything on my face that’s from Amazon.
mortenjorck 7y ago
> In his view, [former FBA manager James Thompson] said, “Ultimately consumers are the police of the platform.” While a current Amazon spokesperson disavows this view in the next paragraph, it’s clear from the rest of the piece (and other pieces, and countless anecdotes) that this perspective was foundational in the development of Amazon’s marketplace and cannot be eliminated by the words of a PR rep. It’s also clear that Amazon is making efforts to redress this with various policy changes and programs. But it certainly appears the problem is cultural, and that only a cultural shift will be able to turn the tide of trust that is slowly draining from Amazon’s supply chain.
- LoSboccacc 7y ago
  Amazon gets its cut anyway and if you order again after a return they get it double, there is very little incentive for them to change
reaperducer 7y ago
She declined to comment on the Journal’s store. The most telling line in the story. Also, there's this: “Sellers are responsible for meeting Amazon’s high bar for product quality,” an Amazon spokeswoman said. Apparently at Amazon, they mean "high" as in stoned. Certainly not "high" as in good.
- jotm 7y ago
  Sellers are responsible, so Amazon is not at fault.
  - uoaei 7y ago
    That's the narrative, yes, but all of this is predicated on the fact that Amazon does not regulate its sellers appropriately.
    - jotm 7y ago
      That was the joke heh Reading it now, it looks like a serious comment. I got defeated by my own sarcasm.
bcassedy 7y ago
I think it's interesting how the perception of Amazon is changing. Even my parents who are in their late 60s are avoiding Amazon because of counterfeiting and poor production quality.
StanDavis 7y ago
paywall
- mc3 7y ago
  https://outline.com/6L5uuw https://outline.com/6L5uuw
hsivonen 7y ago
What do folks in Europe use instead of Amazon.de for computer parts for a few years old computers and accessories that are not the most common ones?
- ClumsyPilot 7y ago
  alza.cz is a prague-based company that offers miles better shopping experience than amazon does. You can sort and filter by technical characteristics, like number of CPU cores, screen diagonal, weight, whatever you want. They deliver across most of EU.
dfkhasfdhdsfi 7y ago
Stay away from anything on Amazon that someone can arbitrage with a counterfeit. Personally I have been burned on supposedly real brand name refrigerator filters - the label looked like it was printed with an ink jet. On the other hand the Amazon basics brand is decent and I trust it more then the marketplace sellers, seems about the same as Walmart GV.
- distances 7y ago
  Frankly, Amazon has such a poor name now that I would be embarrassed to buy any Amazon Basics items. I definitely skip them, even for non-visible items such as batteries.
vector_spaces 7y ago
This is the top listing returned in Amazon's search results for the main textbook used in upper division and first year graduate level statistical inference courses in North America http://imgur.com/a/nYmkFie http://imgur.com/a/nYmkFie Notice the black mark on the bottom right corner? That's to conceal text saying that it's an international edition not to be sold outside of India -- editions that tend to be dirt cheap compared to North American editions but have poor print and binding jobs, usually no preface or solutions to problems in the appendix, and missing chapters. Notice that it's original price was listed as $999.99 and it's listed as 98% off? The listing price of the NA edition is actually about $100. This listing shows up before the legitimate listing in the search results. It has been this way for many months. I'm fine with international editions being sold on Amazon -- so long as they are clearly labeled as such. When this problem has become so pervasive and even impacts Amazon's original core business to this extent, I find myself looking to other retailers... Only to find it impacting many of them as well. I bought an international edition from a third party seller on hpb.com, and my partner is finding shady probably factory produced stuff littered with obviously fake reviews on Etsy now. I'm really curious what the evolution of this problem will look like for e-commerce marketplaces.
- Spivak 7y ago
  It seems odd to complain about that when that's exactly the book that student want. I actually have a cheap international edition of Statistical Inference on my shelf right now that I used in college and it was (and still is) perfectly good. The listing is scummy dgmw, but the product is legit. I don't know anyone outside of the clique of rich international students that actually bought the "legit" versions. I feel bad for anyone who had a professor that mandated a specific version and edition but that's really the only people who should be buying it. The maths in the cheap versions are just the same.
  - vector_spaces 7y ago
    In my case, I am self-studying, so I prefer there to be some solutions in the back of the book, a preface to explain the author's point of view and approach to the text, and a print and binding job that is durable enough to last years (rather than just long enough for a class). I can understand why someone would prefer an international edition -- I've certainly been there, but my expectation with Amazon.com is that the non-international edition would take preference in the search results -- and furthermore, that the international edition would be clearly marked as such
blago 7y ago
Their enforcement is so bad that they are banning legitimate sellers with little explanation or chance to appeal. The process is opaque, Kafkaesque, and irreversible. My listing was removed because of a single review that read: "...round, difference from the regular models. i think they are not original from same factory./..." "They" are pencils. Different models come in different shapes and colors. I am accuainted with the brand and factory owners, and persoanlly buy directly from them. I presented invoices and contact info of company officers but Amazon rejected my appeal because "We received your submission but do not have sufficient information to reactivate your listings. ". From that point on they stopped responding to my emails.
- crazygringo 7y ago
  Huh? If I'm buying pencils on Amazon, I expect to be buying the ones listed. If hexagonal pencils are listed/shown, I shouldn't be getting round ones. I don't know if banning was the right recourse, but from what you're saying it sounds like you were intentionally selling incorrect items. And I hate it when sellers do that. I'm buying an item based on its advertised description. I've had to return items several times because what was delivered was a different model or version from what was advertised. So I can't say I've got sympathy here. :(
  - marcosdumay 7y ago
    I would say it's not clear from the GP's comment whether the review says it's different from other pencils of the same brand or the pencils on the picture.
    - blago 7y ago
      Thank you. The model I was selling is supposed to be round. I should've been more clear.
  - blago 7y ago
    I was selling a model that is supposed to be and always has been round. I reached out and the client who wrote the review told me that he bought this brand, not necessary the model, when he was young and they were hexagonal.
acheron 7y ago
I've never had an issue with the supposed "co-mingling". If I'm careful when I choose what product I order, I have no problem. That said, choosing a good product is definitely becoming harder and harder. Amazon reviews are mostly useless, and some product searches are overwhelmed with the fly-by-night Chinese companies' listings, to the extent that you can't find any legitimate listings at all. So there's a couple different problems. If there's actively fraud going on, then yeah they need to fight that, but it's not usually true "fraud" when TOPGOODTOYPRODUCTS lists their toy with an SEO-approved title. It's just an obvious garbage listing that I don't want to see when looking for something.
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  Some counterfeits are good enough you wouldn't know if you have a problem or not. If one out of 1,000 instead of one out of 1,000,000 is defective, 99.9% of people will be "happy" with their counterfeit, and it may be outwardly indistinguishable.
- account42 7y ago
  eBay lets you filter for listings from the same country / continent / everything - Amazon definitely needs something like that.
jostmey 7y ago
I RECEIVED AN OPENED BOX OF BABY FORMULA FROM AMAZON. I've basically stopped using amazon for all but a few purchases I can't get elsewhere. They lost a lot of business from me
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't use uppercase for emphasis. If you want to emphasize a word or phrase, put asterisks around it and it will get italicized. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
hirako2000 7y ago
I can't be happier to see amazon struggle to keep their marketplace clean. It's the beginning of the downfall. They thought they could just be a logistic company while eating up all the margin, profiting from defenceless sellers. I guess they got totally outsmarted. Can't keep a marketplace at the same level of standard as a direct seller. Selling millions of products doesn't seem to scale well. Worked for books, but even there, opening the door to seller accounts flooded the lists with copies, a ruin for publishers who touched the devil rather than staying away from it. I like amazon for many things they do well, but the truth is that they were never profitable with their previous business model. Now they've been turning directions to make a profit, it's the snowball to their death.
- Accujack 7y ago
  This is what happens when regulators don't promote a fair marketplace. With no competition, companies like Amazon stop caring and start to optimize to get the last few pennies out of each sale... which results in a drop in quality of the overall service and eventually either a long, slow death or a corporate sale. Because Amazon has out priced or out delivered many local stores, we don't have those choices any more. There's a place for companies like this, but they have so many advantages due to size that they have to be watched to ensure they don't step on smaller players just because they can.
  - hirako2000 7y ago
    Could actually be a major factor yes. Surely contributing. I'm still unsure Amazon was ever profitable without the new practices, being a private company makes it even more difficult to figure that out.
    - lonelappde 7y ago
      Amazon is a public company.
    - acdha 7y ago
      Amazon has been profitable since the 90s, which is also when they went public (1997). This would be useful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Amazon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Amazon The key thing to remember is that they expanded aggressively. People who didn’t do their homework - like most pundits and media stock analyst/entertainers - would dismiss them as another unprofitable .com without recognizing that they were becoming profitable in each new market a few years after entry and could halt expansion if they had a cash squeeze. The other point was being comfortable with low margins: that disappointed people who wanted a rapidly climbing stock price but that wasn’t the company they were trying to build and they’ve left quite a few once-hot companies in the rubble.
ReptileMan 7y ago
Can anyone compare uk, de and us experience? A lot of the ailments people complain seem to be absent from the European stores and my experience with them is very positive.
- jasonwen 7y ago
  My experience too. Although I mostly order from Amazon Germany. The barrier for selling from Germany is also higher as you need additional tax registrations in Germany since this October.
roland35 7y ago
I am also finding myself use Amazon for less and less- I used to purchase a lot from "subscribe and save" but I find it to be a frustrating experience! For example, a pack of paper towels could change counts or sizes, and it's hard to know if I am actually getting a good price. I find that Target seems to be the most trustworthy, both Amazon and Walmart have a lot of junk mixed in with their genuine products online. I think that many brick and mortar stores are figuring out how to become more convenient for busy people with things like drive up pick up (Target, Giant Eagle groceries), same day delivery (Walmart), pick up lockers (Home Depot), it starts to even the playing field with Amazon.
daotoad 7y ago
I don't care if people sell clean, safe, reasonable things that are gleaned from a dumpster. That's waste reduction and a net good. What I hate are all the low quality and fraudulent items on Amazon (It's not quite as bad as Ali Express, yet--Ali Express also happens to sell everything ever conceived and people generally accept that a certain portion of things are counterfeit, Amazon pretends to enforce quality.) This is the opening that Sears should have been waiting for. They used to provide the service of selling a curated selection of pretty much anything you would need. Back in the day they had 3 of everything, you needed a widget, you could go to Sears by buy the "good", "better", or "best" version of that thing at a competitive price. Sears, if it were managed worth a damn, could do that. They still have stores all over the place to serve as distributed warehouses, show-rooms and customer service centers. Maybe Target will figure this out. I don't think Amazon will. The closest Amazon has come to addressing this is making their own house brand (a la Kenmore). Which is fine, I guess, if you don't have congress calling you a monopoly. If anything is going to bring Amazon down a peg, it is going to be the ingenuity of fraudulent sellers outstripping the ingenuity of their anti-fraud systems and policies.
- asdf21 7y ago
  This seems so easy to me to fix... just have a decently-sized QA department and add in reputation score variations for sellers... if a seller gets caught selling anything counterfeit, their reputation takes a huge hit for 6 months or so and they barely show up on search results. Trusted sellers would be folks who have managed to go several years without this happening.. I swear I could implement a whole solution for around ~$2M + $1M a year for ongoing QA staff / call center employees... basically nothing for a retailer the size of Amazon. It makes me think they've done the CBA on it and somehow determined they would rather have all retailers selling on Amazon for some reason, even the shady ones, despite some damage to their reputation. I don't understand why though.
  - briefcomment 7y ago
    Who has the last word on if something is fake?
Trias11 7y ago
+1 for Costco.
- repler 7y ago
  100% agree. Costco actively curates the products they sell. They even have "roadshows" where vendors literally compete with each other to get selected. Why this matters to me is that by doing so, they have earned my trust. I have confidence that if I buy something at Costco I don't need to research it to the ends of the earth. I know it will be of good to great quality, and competitive on price. It's almost literally the opposite of Amazon in this regard.
yourapostasy 7y ago
An interesting phenomena I'm starting to see involved in this is when the trash retailing experience on Amazon affects entire product ecosystems. As long as the trash dominates listings, better manufacturers and vendors seem to begin to find it difficult to keep the trash out of their own supply chains. A personal example is search in Amazon on "lightning splitter", for the Lightning adapters that split a single Lightning port into one for charging and one for audio. This entire category is awash in pretty much all the sketch activity we talk about here on HN. It's easy to find an example where questions were asked about completely different products, and the vendor subsequently swapped the product in the listing for the Lightning splitter. Also easy to find reviews in broken English posted within 1-2 days of each other. The litany goes on. That's not the interesting part. What I find interesting is Belkin, whose business model seems to tend to be source from about the same as these vendors in China, slap on a bunch of marketing with some so-so-but-not-spectacular QA and support, and marks up the result 5-800%, is themselves caught up in this. Their own offering in this category is complete trash just like all the other listings, based upon reviews and first-hand experience, with exactly the same failure mode (works for 1-6 months, then power and/or audio connection breaks down). Power banks seemed to go through the same sketchy phase, which I finally gave up upon and just started only buying Anker brand. Even though they weren't the absolute best, they were good enough, and I knew I wouldn't get utter trash out of the box. I have long suspected this entire state of affairs suits Amazon just fine. The more product categories that trash themselves like this, the more of an opening it gives Amazon to completely vertically integrate the entire supply chain for that category under their Basics label, and shove aside most/all of the trash vendors to the loud acclaim of consumers, who get so sick of the trash experience that they welcome the creeping Amazon monopolization with open arms and lusty cheers. I wouldn't at all be surprised if Amazon rolls out tiered-quality offerings beyond Basics as this effort takes hold. One possible way that might frustrate Amazon's efforts in this direction is more companies like Anker spot these opportunities (with a basic business model being "don't be completely toxic to your customers, build a reasonable product with reasonable support at a reasonable price point") and fill the empty niches, then exert absolutely tyrannical channel control. The manufacturer claims the only authorized Amazon (or even a whole set of online platforms) authorized channel sales to avoid commingling counterfeits, and comes down like a ton of bricks on anyone that tries to mom-and-pop resell online on staked-out e-commerce platforms. This is a live economics and marketing exercise in the power and utility of branding. Could be some interesting needs and solutions for supply chain verification coming out of this as well, with subtle, secret but cheaply-implemented, manufacturer-designed watermarks built into the products to catch authorized resellers trying to sneak in cheap counterfeits amongst their legit stock to illicitly boost their margins.
ClumsyPilot 7y ago
I applaud this as a recycling effort
neonate 7y ago
http://archive.md/UbD7r http://archive.md/UbD7r
uoaei 7y ago
Our Christmas bonus this year at our small startup was a large Amazon gift card. I'm intensely conflicted on applying it to my account. But that amount of money is not insignificant and I feel almost obligated to use it despite my ethical qualms with Amazon. How might my fellow HN denizens navigate this situation? I already asked HR and they don't want to exchange it for cash because "we already bought it" and "we don't want the bonus to be taxable income".
- SuperFerret 7y ago
  Sell it to somebody for slightly less than its worth.
- SuperFerret 7y ago
  Or a better idea, use it at Amazon but only from sellers that you think are ethical.
- nanodeath 7y ago
  Pretty sure there are places online where you can sell/exchange gift cards.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- jacobush 7y ago
  It’s a one time thing, just do it
- dwater 7y ago
  Gift cards are taxable income, but if you point this out to HR it probably won't make them happier with you. https://www.shrm.org/ResourcesAndTools/hr-topics/compensation/Pages/Holiday-Gifts-Taxable.aspx https://www.shrm.org/ResourcesAndTools/hr-topics/compensatio...
  - uoaei 7y ago
    How the hell do I navigate this re: filing taxes? I'm an independent contractor. Obviously the best answer is "talk to a CPA" but I'm curious if anyone has insight into how to wade through this.
bdcravens 7y ago
I ordered coffee that I commonly get at the grocery store. I just got a cardboard box filled with loose k-cups, with no expiration information. Not sure if the paywalled article mentions this, but you can’t return food products. I did leave a 1-star review and ended up drinking them (coffee is less of an expiration issue) but I still wasn’t happy about it.
turtlebits 7y ago
There's so much Amazon bashing it seems to be a bandwagon. I wish there was more focus on other stores getting what Amazon has done right. The shopping (and return) experience at Amazon is so far superior than any other online or brick and mortar store. Things that suck: Payments - What is the point of contactless payments when still I have to put in my PIN, cashback prompt and finally accept the amount? Online order/store pickup. Why do I have to wait in line and have my ID checked? Returns are the absolute worst - every experience I've had is at least a 10+ minute wait.
- danShumway 7y ago
  > Returns are the absolute worst - every experience I've had is at least a 10+ minute wait. > The shopping (and return) experience at Amazon is so far superior I don't get it. An Amazon return process will also take me 5-10 minutes to complete online, and then it requires me to have a printer and packaging on-hand to ship the item back to Amazon. Then to get a replacement I need to wait multiple days for both the return to process, and the replacement to ship. I live in a suburban area, so for a physical store I drive 15-20 minutes, wait 10 minutes for the return to process, and then get in my car with the replacement and drive back home. I can get the entire thing done in less than an hour. I don't need to print anything, I don't need to box anything up. I can go from noticing a part is defective to having a replacement in my hand in an hour. You seem to be optimizing for different metrics than me, or you live way farther from most physical stores than I do. It's annoying to type in a pin, I guess, but I'm happy to take that ~15 second loss if it means I can save 2 days of waiting for a package to arrive.
  - turtlebits 7y ago
    Maybe you don't have Amazon dropoff locations, but essentially I walk in the door, walk to a staff member handling returns, and they scan a QR code on my phone and I hand over the item. Never encountered a line and am always out within a minute. It doesn't need to be packed in a taped box with a label on it.
    - danShumway 7y ago
m3kw9 7y ago
So you decide to get a jar, put crap in it , mislabel it and sell it, and it worked. Makes you a fraud. What’s new?
adamc 7y ago
I think the way I'm coming to see Amazon is like a street vendor. If it's something I would be willing to buy from a random guy on a street, then sure, I can buy it from Amazon. If I need more assurances... it's a poor source.
- turtlebits 7y ago
  The only difference is that if there's something wrong with it, you can easily return it. And their returns process is worlds better than any brick and mortar.
- par 7y ago
  At least with a street vendor I can see what I am getting before I pay for it. Amazon is arguably worse than a reputable street vendor.
notjtrig 7y ago
I sell my trash on eBay as most of it is in pretty bad shape when I get it. Any ideas where to get better quality trash than Bed Bath and Beyond, Staples, Harbor Freight ewaste pickups and transfer stations?
einpoklum 7y ago
> You are buying trash on Amazon There, fixed that for you. Or maybe it should be: > You might be buying from trash - Amazon To be less facetious, though, Amazon is one of the corporations which scares me the most. It seems to be sucking up so much of the economy, and only getting more voracious over time.
lucb1e 7y ago
Wait but, if the product is indistinguishable from new (else it wouldn't be news that you're buying "trash" from Amazon if everyone already knew that), what's the problem? You get the same warranty, the product gets a second life, it's good for the environment, it can be cheaper because it didn't have to be manufactured again (good for you)... The downside is obviously that the "new" status was a lie, but if it's truly indistinguishable, I really don't find it all that objectionable.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- rootusrootus 7y ago
  > You get the same warranty What warranty? Are you referring to the "A-to-z Guarantee" that Amazon provides on merchandise from third-party sellers? I'd hesitate to think of that as a warranty.
  - lucb1e 7y ago
    I mean the general warranty law (European or the country's implementation), so 2 years on new electronics for example (European law) or "however long a product may reasonably be expected to work" (Dutch implementation of that law, which makes manufacturers go 'wtf' and they tell everyone 2 years and most people don't know that they have any rights after 2 years, e.g. a TV definitely shouldn't break after 2 years).
    - rootusrootus 7y ago
      That is interesting, I wonder how enforcement of that works on a product that does not have a clear chain of custody back to the manufacturer.
      - lucb1e 7y ago
        I haven't been exact enough. I mention manufacturer because I guess that vendors just copy the manufacturer's warranty statement for the European market, but in reality it's the vendor that has to provide the warranty. I don't think consumer rights laws care whether the vendor has a reliable manufacturer to back them on this. If you buy from cheap-electronics.example.nl and they order crap from China, it's still up to Cheap Electronics B.V. (or whatever they're registered as) to provide warranty. If there is no clear chain of custody, the vendor should have thought that through before deciding to buy from them. The vendor is legally not allowed to redirect you to the manufacturer: the vendor has to handle warranty, not send the customer to the manufacturer. (I know a thing or two about our warranty system because a company tried to screw me out of a few hundred euros that I only got back after half a year of weekly nagging, and not before I had sent a letter outlining exactly what the law is and which steps and fees would be leading up to a court case which they would definitely lose. As a student, I didn't have the money to pay a lawyer for that stuff, and the law allows for self-representation in small claims so that's what I prepared for. I should also give credit to the ACM/Consuwijzer that have excellent documentation understandable for anyone.)
4ec0755f5522 7y ago
Amazon is eating itself alive. The general population may not have figured it out yet but high-users (Prime members) definitely see the problems and most importantly DO. NOT. TRUST. AMAZON. ANYMORE. The brand is halfway down the toilet in terms of online retail and I do not think they can turn it around in time. Their whole strategy is based on speed and they've found garbage third party sellers a speed advantage. They are not competing on quality at all. They are not offering a quality experience, they are not selling quality, it is not in their product plan. So if you are shopping for quality experience or quality product you do not shop on Amazon. It is only a matter of time I think before this awareness hits critical mass.
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't use uppercase for emphasis. If you want to emphasize a word or phrase, put asterisks around it and it will get italicized. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
- beatgammit 7y ago
  The only thing keeping me on Prime is my wife, because she really likes that 2-day delivery and a few shows on Prime Video. Since Amazon recently started putting ads on their videos, and because it's harder and harder to sift through the crap. Unless Amazon does something big, I'll try making the case again to my wife to leave them. She's been ordering more and more from other retailers, so it shouldn't be a hard case to make.
OJFord 7y ago
Well, yeah. Sort by price, low to high, and observe two things: 1. For all it's technical acumen, Amazon apparently can't figure out how to order things by price 2. Amazon sells a lot of tack, junk, trash, and tat.
sproketboy 7y ago
So what?
aussieguy1234 7y ago
https://outline.com/LFSy2r https://outline.com/LFSy2r. Step 1: Use bit.ly to shorten WSJ url. Step 2: Outline shortened url.
netwanderer3 7y ago
Amazon must be careful. They may be slowly losing it without even knowing. When a customer considers buying something online, what are the main criteria driving their decision-making process? The most important criteria are the ones that will not change very often no matter what happens, and should always remain true even in 10 or 20 years time from now. These are: "a wide selection of goods, great prices, authentic merchandises, convenience (fast shipping time to anywhere)". Amazon do not always have the best online prices anymore these days. Based on many online reports, they are increasingly letting in inauthentic merchandises by 3rd party sellers. Their shipping time is still outstanding though, plus a very wide selection of goods which are what keep them going mainly these days. Amazon should be very cautious, if another platform could beat them to the two main key criteria in the near future then they may lose some of their market share. In the quest of chasing for growth, sometimes companies could overlook these basic principles.
wildduck 7y ago
one man's trash is another man's treasure. It is just supply and demand.

414 points by mudil 7y ago

ptah 7y ago

good. recycling is the way forward

DJBunnies 7y ago
Recycling and reuse are different concepts.
danepowell 7y ago
Unless you're talking about, say, botulism-contaminated food products that a grocery store discarded and a dumpster diver "recycled" on Amazon. Not saying that exact case has happened, but surely there's a more nuanced take on this than "recycling is good".
- droithomme 7y ago
  Well the only dumpster food item they confirmed sold on amazon the WSJ personally dove for and placed on amazon themselves. Then they quote some basically anonymous people saying they list trash salvage on amazon sometimes or did in the past, without verifying so or giving any examples of what sorts of things they sold. Is anyone other than the WSJ listing contaminated food on amazon? No evidence is provided.
  - penagwin 7y ago
    Given that it's potentially profitable and works, who cares if it's done in a widespread way? That fact that it easily could is the problem IMO.
    - droithomme 7y ago
      > That fact that it easily could... It's also easy to add poison dust to toys one resells, or razor blades to candies. However, both these acts are illegal. What is also illegal is what the WSJ did. Selling food items of any kind in interstate commerce, including all internet sales, is strictly regulated by the FDA, and sellers must have a facility license. https://www.fda.gov/food/food-industry/how-start-food-business https://www.fda.gov/food/food-industry/how-start-food-busine... > If you are importing food products, conducting internet sales, and/or shipping food products outside of your state, you must register as a facility. WSJ is not registered with the FDA as a facility and therefore is in violation of federal law. They should be charged, prosecuted, and fined. Given the violation was willful, egregious, and put people at risk, criminal prosecutions with jail time should be considered as well. Selling food taken out of dumpsters in interstate commerce is not legally permitted. Amazon's solution here is simple. Anyone listing food needs to prove they are an FDA registered facility. This includes all amazon properties as well. Amazon is also engaging in illegal activity if they are not FDA registered and following all regulations. Which they clearly are not. Enforce existing laws. Including maximum fines and prison time as necessary.
  - danShumway 7y ago
    This is such a weird response to me. The WSJ personally proved that Amazon doesn't have additional seller checks around food suppliers to make sure they're reputably sourcing their products. But because we don't have evidence that people are (currently) taking advantage of that, our response should be different? If my website has an XSS vulnerability that exposes my database, and someone tells me about it, can I downplay the issue by saying, "you don't have evidence that anyone is currently exploiting it"? Would you feel comfortable continuing to use my software if that was my response? > Attempts to list a protein powder, a pea-powder dietary supplement and a face sheet mask—all from the dive—elicited a request from Amazon for proof of purchase. Amazon does have quality control metrics for some items, but doesn't use them for food -- meaning that in practice buying food on Amazon may not be much safer than buying food on Ebay. In that sense, think of the WSJ article as a public disclosure of a vulnerability in Amazon's quality control measures. A vulnerability that we observably know exists because the WSJ personally verified that it existed.
- turtlebits 7y ago
  If it's past the sell by date, then return it. I've gotten old items from the grocery store, it happens. I'm happy to give Amazon more leniency since their customer service is excellent and they make it very easy to return items.
olyjohn 7y ago
Yep, I honestly don't care where it comes from. Unless it's food. Is it in good condition? Does it work? Is it appropriately listed as to it's current condition? Then does it really matter that someone pulled it out of the Office Depot dumpster?
Reedx 7y ago
Reduce, reuse, recycle. In that order.
turtlebits 7y ago
Agreed, if it's sealed in the original packaging and in new condition, I don't really care. Of course if it's food it shouldn't past the sell by date.
homonculus1 7y ago
Bad, what's wrong with you? Recycled and used goods should be labeled so the consumer can decide if the price is fair for a less-reliable offering.
- ptah 7y ago
  who's to say it is less reliable?

mvanbaak 7y ago

Anyone has a non-paywalled version?

aikah 7y ago
http://archive.is/c788v http://archive.is/c788v
Wowfunhappy 7y ago
This article appears to be exempt from the WSJ's paywall. It worked for me anyway.
- mc3 7y ago
  Welcome to the non-idempotent web.

apotatopot 7y ago

I got an MSI motherboard from Amazon that was listed as "new", but was obviously heavily used and no longer functioning. No anti-static packaging, it was wrapped in cheapo foam paper and had what looked like scratch marks all over it. That's probably the worst shape item I've received, but I've also heard and got counterfeit baby items, which could be extremely unsafe. I'm being extremely careful with Amazon moving forward.

giancarlostoro 7y ago
That's insane, the worst any motherboard I own gets is dust and maybe overheating, but scratch marks all over? That sounds like someone who buys / sells hardware really often and just shoves parts in / out like it's nothing.
- amelius 7y ago
  Or retrieved from a dumpster.
  - londons_explore 7y ago
    Deliberately destroyed and returned to make a competitors product get bad review scores or banned from amazon entirely.
    - fragmede 7y ago
      This is the reason Amazon's job is way harder than it looks at scale. Any system used to try and prove that an account is legitimate or not has difficulty telling when an account has been hacked/bought. A smart attacker will bide their time and will do very few falsified reviews. Everyone is trying to game the system, and beat the other "players", and are willing to resort to nefarious means to quash their competitors because money is on the line.
mc32 7y ago
To offer a counter narrative (although I do have gripes with Amazon) I’ve bought things that were labeled “open box” condition “new”. Everything was as advertised. Was about 25% off for what amounted to having to download a PDF of the Manual/instructions.

klyrs 7y ago

Extreme optimism: well this takes the punch out of previous reporting that amazon returns are being sent to landfill...

droithomme 7y ago
Returns are auctioned off in grab bags of random items. There's dozens of youtube channels of people going through these boxes and talking about how much they'll relist each item for, keep some items, throw away a lot. One key is you need to be near the auction site to personally pick up your wins since otherwise the shipping is too high. One exception is some lots are for entire truckloads of items, which sometimes come with free shipping by truck, and free the problem of what to do with a truckload of random returns such as 80,000 lbs of cracked large panel TVs.

SkyPuncher 7y ago

I'm now actively looking and buying from other places unless I desperately need something in 2-days or less and know exactly what I need. * Searching has simply becoming wading through pages and pages of Chinese junk with incorrect, misleading, or straight-up lies in the description. * Similarly, the average quality of generic items is so poor, I'm trending back to brick-and-mortar stores. Walmart may have cheap stuff, but at least they put some effort into maintaining their brand. * Who knows what product a review was actually written for. Lots of basic products are being sold to pump up reviews then being switched to a much more expensive item. * I've also noticed I'll pay for many name brand items on Amazon that getting them directly from seller or another retailer. * At least 10% of my orders from Amazon now have something wrong with them. What good is 2 day shipping if I need to return and re-order an item - taking nearly a week total.

thearn4 7y ago
> Lots of basic products are being sold to pump up reviews then being switched to a much more expensive item. This is the most frustrating of them all, reviews mean absolutely nothing anymore when the item can be switched out at will while keeping any old reviews.
- organsnyder 7y ago
  The frustrating thing is that it seems like a trivial problem to solve. Changing too many attributes of a product should either be disallowed, or automatically wipe old reviews.
  - hk__2 7y ago
    > The frustrating thing is that it seems like a trivial problem to solve. Changing too many attributes of a product should either be disallowed, or automatically wipe old reviews. If it hasn’t been solved yet, it’s probably not that trivial. How many is “too many”? What happens if I change one attribute every week or so until I’ve completely changed the product?
    - 7y ago

dangerboysteve 7y ago

I've had a few open boxes or obviously used items sold as new and unused from Amazon over the years. Amazon always takes them back no questions asked.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
Prime account? I have Prime and haven't ever had a problem returning things or getting refunds, which I haven't had to do much of anyway. I'm wondering if there isn't a significant difference between the shopping experience of Prime and non-Prime users.
- JohnFen 7y ago
  I've been a Prime member for over a decade (although I've recently cancelled my Prime membership), and I've made very few complaints over the years. But one of the many things that has soured me on Amazon is that the last three times I needed to do a return (in every case because the item was damaged), it's been a huge pain in the butt. And once, Amazon even claimed they never received the return at all, and recharged my account for the ($20) item. I know that others have a very different experience than I, and I don't know what the difference is -- but Prime vs non-Prime doesn't seem to be it.
  - jdfellow 7y ago
    Funny enough last time I needed to do an Amazon return it was the easiest thing ever: they take returns now at Whole Foods locations so all I had to do was go to the cashier at the grocer around the corner. The Whole Foods acquisition is still an odd choice in my opinion for Amazon, but this was a great move.
    - JohnFen 7y ago
      That's fine if you happen to be near a Whole Foods. That said, Amazon also uses UPS Stores in a similar way as Whole Foods for this, and that's what I've used.

droithomme 7y ago

This article mentions a bunch of different practices, some Ok, others not, but seems to disapprove of all of them. Listing food items you got from the trash? Definitely not ok, whether listed as new or not. Reselling unopened clearance items you bought at Target or WalMart? That seems perfectly fine, what's the problem? Reselling unopened liquidation items you bought in a random grab bag at auction from a liquidator who bought them as returns from amazon? That seems fine as well. Should they be listed as new, like new, or used? That's reasonable to discuss. Reselling thrift store bought items as used? Sure why not. Tons of thrift stores list items especially books on amazon. It's one of my main sources of out of print books. Can't think of a thing wrong with this.

JohnFen 7y ago
> Reselling unopened clearance items you bought at Target or WalMart? I object to this because those items may have been purchased from retailers that I do not want my money to go to. But this, and the rest of the things you list, are actually OK with me, so long as the listing clearly states where the item was obtained from.
- thenewnewguy 7y ago
  Your money isn't going to them, they already have the money regardless of whether the item is sold on Amazon or not. If you want to support specific retailers buy from them directly rather than via a marketplace that allows third parties to list on it.
  - JohnFen 7y ago
    Yes, but I prefer to stay out of that chain entirely. If someone wants to do business with an entity I object to, well, that's up to them. But I don't want to inject myself anywhere in that chain. > If you want to support specific retailers buy from them directly Which I do. The third party marketplace Amazon runs is a significant factor in why I've decided to reduce my use of Amazon to "last resort" status. Although I'm not talking about supporting specific retailers here, I'm talking about inverse -- intentionally not supporting specific retailers.

decebalus1 7y ago

I have mixed feelings when I see these articles popping up recently along with the general consensus on hackernews about the fact that Amazon shopping should be avoided. On one side I'm glad, considering Amazon has gotten too big and is in need of a readjustment. But on the other side, I feel that this is an echo chamber, considering the continuing growth of the company. I am privileged enough to actively reject everything that has anything to do with Amazon. I buy most things locally and sometimes I pay a premium for that. No regrets, I consider this the capitalist democracy of voting with your wallet in the free market. I have not bought anything from Amazon for the past 4 years, since the first time I heard about the warehouse working conditions. I correlated that with the toxic environment they are cultivating for white-collar workers and just decided that Amazon is a company I never want to deal with.

lotsofpulp 7y ago
>But on the other side, I feel that this is an echo chamber, considering the continuing growth of the company. It may take a while for Amazon to lose its good will, but eventually people will realize it's not worth shopping on a website full of unvetted cheap garbage, even if it saves a dollar. It costs a lot of time and effort to re-pack and return items. Even my parents are befuddled by Amazon's website now, where they have to carefully tip toe around a minefield of gibberish to make sure what they are buying is shipped and sold by Amazon.com. They say screw it, and just go to Target/Costco/Best Buy or any other decent website.
- rootusrootus 7y ago
  I only speak for myself, obviously, but from my perspective if Amazon wants to stay successful they need to focus on reliability over price. I don't buy stuff on Amazon because I want to save a buck, I do it because I can just open up the app, pick what I want, and know that it will be here in a day or two. It's 100% about the convenience. I can tolerate spending a bit more, but I have an extremely low tolerance for counterfeit, low-quality, damaged goods, etc. If Amazon doesn't address this fairly soon, I'm probably going to look for other options, and once I switch, the odds of coming back are pretty low. It could be as simple as allowing me to opt out of seeing anything that is not "ships from and sold by Amazon" (and guaranteed no commingling).

paggle 7y ago

I just bought Christmas presents and I ordered only the books from Amazon. JetPens packages stationery for less damage, Uncommon Goods has a curated selection, and a wallet from Nordstrom has a better return policy.

linuxlizard 7y ago
I've spent waaaay too much money at JetPens. Good stuff.
markkanof 7y ago
Agreed with all the examples you list. The flip side though is I have been dealing with a clothing company (Zanerobe) who's return policy is store credit only. The main problem with that is their product line is really small, so basically my options are keep the pair of pants that I don't like OR just let them hold my money as store credit forever. Should I have read their return policy before buying, yes, probably, but I've gotten so used to places like Nordstrom AND Amazon giving refunds for returned products for any reason that it didn't even occur to me.
- distances 7y ago
  Aren't refunds required for returns in US online sales?
  - markkanof 7y ago
    Unfortunately no. Had I realized this companies return policy, I never would have shopped with them.
  - paggle 7y ago
    The US tends to have very few federal laws of this type. Some states have them.
dullroar 7y ago
OK, if I go bankrupt now because of discovering JetPens, it is your fault!

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

paggle 7y ago

This article finally captured the truth about Amazon - that it’s just eBay, and should be used for the same purchases: things you can’t get anywhere else and things that are impossible to screw up.

4ntonius8lock 7y ago
Actually with ebay I can more easily trust. Because they don't co-mingle, I know that someone with 100,000 positive reviews on ebay is unlikely to sell a counterfeit. With amazon I don't have that trust, since even if the seller is great, one single bad actor, who isn't the person I'm buying from, could infiltrate the system causing me to get a counterfeit.
- lame-robot-hoax 7y ago
  Exactly, despite them working on commingling and counterfeits, I’m still super weary of ordering anything cosmetic on Amazon. Like, face serums or moisturizers. I’m weary of rubbing anything on my face that’s from Amazon.

mortenjorck 7y ago

> In his view, [former FBA manager James Thompson] said, “Ultimately consumers are the police of the platform.” While a current Amazon spokesperson disavows this view in the next paragraph, it’s clear from the rest of the piece (and other pieces, and countless anecdotes) that this perspective was foundational in the development of Amazon’s marketplace and cannot be eliminated by the words of a PR rep. It’s also clear that Amazon is making efforts to redress this with various policy changes and programs. But it certainly appears the problem is cultural, and that only a cultural shift will be able to turn the tide of trust that is slowly draining from Amazon’s supply chain.

LoSboccacc 7y ago
Amazon gets its cut anyway and if you order again after a return they get it double, there is very little incentive for them to change

reaperducer 7y ago

She declined to comment on the Journal’s store. The most telling line in the story. Also, there's this: “Sellers are responsible for meeting Amazon’s high bar for product quality,” an Amazon spokeswoman said. Apparently at Amazon, they mean "high" as in stoned. Certainly not "high" as in good.

jotm 7y ago
Sellers are responsible, so Amazon is not at fault.
- uoaei 7y ago
  That's the narrative, yes, but all of this is predicated on the fact that Amazon does not regulate its sellers appropriately.
  - jotm 7y ago
    That was the joke heh Reading it now, it looks like a serious comment. I got defeated by my own sarcasm.

bcassedy 7y ago

I think it's interesting how the perception of Amazon is changing. Even my parents who are in their late 60s are avoiding Amazon because of counterfeiting and poor production quality.

StanDavis 7y ago

paywall

mc3 7y ago
https://outline.com/6L5uuw https://outline.com/6L5uuw

hsivonen 7y ago

What do folks in Europe use instead of Amazon.de for computer parts for a few years old computers and accessories that are not the most common ones?

ClumsyPilot 7y ago
alza.cz is a prague-based company that offers miles better shopping experience than amazon does. You can sort and filter by technical characteristics, like number of CPU cores, screen diagonal, weight, whatever you want. They deliver across most of EU.

dfkhasfdhdsfi 7y ago

Stay away from anything on Amazon that someone can arbitrage with a counterfeit. Personally I have been burned on supposedly real brand name refrigerator filters - the label looked like it was printed with an ink jet. On the other hand the Amazon basics brand is decent and I trust it more then the marketplace sellers, seems about the same as Walmart GV.

distances 7y ago
Frankly, Amazon has such a poor name now that I would be embarrassed to buy any Amazon Basics items. I definitely skip them, even for non-visible items such as batteries.

vector_spaces 7y ago

This is the top listing returned in Amazon's search results for the main textbook used in upper division and first year graduate level statistical inference courses in North America http://imgur.com/a/nYmkFie http://imgur.com/a/nYmkFie Notice the black mark on the bottom right corner? That's to conceal text saying that it's an international edition not to be sold outside of India -- editions that tend to be dirt cheap compared to North American editions but have poor print and binding jobs, usually no preface or solutions to problems in the appendix, and missing chapters. Notice that it's original price was listed as $999.99 and it's listed as 98% off? The listing price of the NA edition is actually about $100. This listing shows up before the legitimate listing in the search results. It has been this way for many months. I'm fine with international editions being sold on Amazon -- so long as they are clearly labeled as such. When this problem has become so pervasive and even impacts Amazon's original core business to this extent, I find myself looking to other retailers... Only to find it impacting many of them as well. I bought an international edition from a third party seller on hpb.com, and my partner is finding shady probably factory produced stuff littered with obviously fake reviews on Etsy now. I'm really curious what the evolution of this problem will look like for e-commerce marketplaces.

Spivak 7y ago
It seems odd to complain about that when that's exactly the book that student want. I actually have a cheap international edition of Statistical Inference on my shelf right now that I used in college and it was (and still is) perfectly good. The listing is scummy dgmw, but the product is legit. I don't know anyone outside of the clique of rich international students that actually bought the "legit" versions. I feel bad for anyone who had a professor that mandated a specific version and edition but that's really the only people who should be buying it. The maths in the cheap versions are just the same.
- vector_spaces 7y ago
  In my case, I am self-studying, so I prefer there to be some solutions in the back of the book, a preface to explain the author's point of view and approach to the text, and a print and binding job that is durable enough to last years (rather than just long enough for a class). I can understand why someone would prefer an international edition -- I've certainly been there, but my expectation with Amazon.com is that the non-international edition would take preference in the search results -- and furthermore, that the international edition would be clearly marked as such

blago 7y ago

Their enforcement is so bad that they are banning legitimate sellers with little explanation or chance to appeal. The process is opaque, Kafkaesque, and irreversible. My listing was removed because of a single review that read: "...round, difference from the regular models. i think they are not original from same factory./..." "They" are pencils. Different models come in different shapes and colors. I am accuainted with the brand and factory owners, and persoanlly buy directly from them. I presented invoices and contact info of company officers but Amazon rejected my appeal because "We received your submission but do not have sufficient information to reactivate your listings. ". From that point on they stopped responding to my emails.

crazygringo 7y ago
Huh? If I'm buying pencils on Amazon, I expect to be buying the ones listed. If hexagonal pencils are listed/shown, I shouldn't be getting round ones. I don't know if banning was the right recourse, but from what you're saying it sounds like you were intentionally selling incorrect items. And I hate it when sellers do that. I'm buying an item based on its advertised description. I've had to return items several times because what was delivered was a different model or version from what was advertised. So I can't say I've got sympathy here. :(
- marcosdumay 7y ago
  I would say it's not clear from the GP's comment whether the review says it's different from other pencils of the same brand or the pencils on the picture.
  - blago 7y ago
    Thank you. The model I was selling is supposed to be round. I should've been more clear.
- blago 7y ago
  I was selling a model that is supposed to be and always has been round. I reached out and the client who wrote the review told me that he bought this brand, not necessary the model, when he was young and they were hexagonal.

acheron 7y ago

I've never had an issue with the supposed "co-mingling". If I'm careful when I choose what product I order, I have no problem. That said, choosing a good product is definitely becoming harder and harder. Amazon reviews are mostly useless, and some product searches are overwhelmed with the fly-by-night Chinese companies' listings, to the extent that you can't find any legitimate listings at all. So there's a couple different problems. If there's actively fraud going on, then yeah they need to fight that, but it's not usually true "fraud" when TOPGOODTOYPRODUCTS lists their toy with an SEO-approved title. It's just an obvious garbage listing that I don't want to see when looking for something.

ceejayoz 7y ago
Some counterfeits are good enough you wouldn't know if you have a problem or not. If one out of 1,000 instead of one out of 1,000,000 is defective, 99.9% of people will be "happy" with their counterfeit, and it may be outwardly indistinguishable.
account42 7y ago
eBay lets you filter for listings from the same country / continent / everything - Amazon definitely needs something like that.

jostmey 7y ago

I RECEIVED AN OPENED BOX OF BABY FORMULA FROM AMAZON. I've basically stopped using amazon for all but a few purchases I can't get elsewhere. They lost a lot of business from me

dang 7y ago
Please don't use uppercase for emphasis. If you want to emphasize a word or phrase, put asterisks around it and it will get italicized. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

hirako2000 7y ago

I can't be happier to see amazon struggle to keep their marketplace clean. It's the beginning of the downfall. They thought they could just be a logistic company while eating up all the margin, profiting from defenceless sellers. I guess they got totally outsmarted. Can't keep a marketplace at the same level of standard as a direct seller. Selling millions of products doesn't seem to scale well. Worked for books, but even there, opening the door to seller accounts flooded the lists with copies, a ruin for publishers who touched the devil rather than staying away from it. I like amazon for many things they do well, but the truth is that they were never profitable with their previous business model. Now they've been turning directions to make a profit, it's the snowball to their death.

Accujack 7y ago
This is what happens when regulators don't promote a fair marketplace. With no competition, companies like Amazon stop caring and start to optimize to get the last few pennies out of each sale... which results in a drop in quality of the overall service and eventually either a long, slow death or a corporate sale. Because Amazon has out priced or out delivered many local stores, we don't have those choices any more. There's a place for companies like this, but they have so many advantages due to size that they have to be watched to ensure they don't step on smaller players just because they can.
- hirako2000 7y ago
  Could actually be a major factor yes. Surely contributing. I'm still unsure Amazon was ever profitable without the new practices, being a private company makes it even more difficult to figure that out.
  - lonelappde 7y ago
    Amazon is a public company.
  - acdha 7y ago
    Amazon has been profitable since the 90s, which is also when they went public (1997). This would be useful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Amazon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Amazon The key thing to remember is that they expanded aggressively. People who didn’t do their homework - like most pundits and media stock analyst/entertainers - would dismiss them as another unprofitable .com without recognizing that they were becoming profitable in each new market a few years after entry and could halt expansion if they had a cash squeeze. The other point was being comfortable with low margins: that disappointed people who wanted a rapidly climbing stock price but that wasn’t the company they were trying to build and they’ve left quite a few once-hot companies in the rubble.

ReptileMan 7y ago

Can anyone compare uk, de and us experience? A lot of the ailments people complain seem to be absent from the European stores and my experience with them is very positive.

jasonwen 7y ago
My experience too. Although I mostly order from Amazon Germany. The barrier for selling from Germany is also higher as you need additional tax registrations in Germany since this October.

roland35 7y ago

I am also finding myself use Amazon for less and less- I used to purchase a lot from "subscribe and save" but I find it to be a frustrating experience! For example, a pack of paper towels could change counts or sizes, and it's hard to know if I am actually getting a good price. I find that Target seems to be the most trustworthy, both Amazon and Walmart have a lot of junk mixed in with their genuine products online. I think that many brick and mortar stores are figuring out how to become more convenient for busy people with things like drive up pick up (Target, Giant Eagle groceries), same day delivery (Walmart), pick up lockers (Home Depot), it starts to even the playing field with Amazon.

daotoad 7y ago

I don't care if people sell clean, safe, reasonable things that are gleaned from a dumpster. That's waste reduction and a net good. What I hate are all the low quality and fraudulent items on Amazon (It's not quite as bad as Ali Express, yet--Ali Express also happens to sell everything ever conceived and people generally accept that a certain portion of things are counterfeit, Amazon pretends to enforce quality.) This is the opening that Sears should have been waiting for. They used to provide the service of selling a curated selection of pretty much anything you would need. Back in the day they had 3 of everything, you needed a widget, you could go to Sears by buy the "good", "better", or "best" version of that thing at a competitive price. Sears, if it were managed worth a damn, could do that. They still have stores all over the place to serve as distributed warehouses, show-rooms and customer service centers. Maybe Target will figure this out. I don't think Amazon will. The closest Amazon has come to addressing this is making their own house brand (a la Kenmore). Which is fine, I guess, if you don't have congress calling you a monopoly. If anything is going to bring Amazon down a peg, it is going to be the ingenuity of fraudulent sellers outstripping the ingenuity of their anti-fraud systems and policies.

asdf21 7y ago
This seems so easy to me to fix... just have a decently-sized QA department and add in reputation score variations for sellers... if a seller gets caught selling anything counterfeit, their reputation takes a huge hit for 6 months or so and they barely show up on search results. Trusted sellers would be folks who have managed to go several years without this happening.. I swear I could implement a whole solution for around ~$2M + $1M a year for ongoing QA staff / call center employees... basically nothing for a retailer the size of Amazon. It makes me think they've done the CBA on it and somehow determined they would rather have all retailers selling on Amazon for some reason, even the shady ones, despite some damage to their reputation. I don't understand why though.
- briefcomment 7y ago
  Who has the last word on if something is fake?

Trias11 7y ago

+1 for Costco.

repler 7y ago
100% agree. Costco actively curates the products they sell. They even have "roadshows" where vendors literally compete with each other to get selected. Why this matters to me is that by doing so, they have earned my trust. I have confidence that if I buy something at Costco I don't need to research it to the ends of the earth. I know it will be of good to great quality, and competitive on price. It's almost literally the opposite of Amazon in this regard.

yourapostasy 7y ago

An interesting phenomena I'm starting to see involved in this is when the trash retailing experience on Amazon affects entire product ecosystems. As long as the trash dominates listings, better manufacturers and vendors seem to begin to find it difficult to keep the trash out of their own supply chains. A personal example is search in Amazon on "lightning splitter", for the Lightning adapters that split a single Lightning port into one for charging and one for audio. This entire category is awash in pretty much all the sketch activity we talk about here on HN. It's easy to find an example where questions were asked about completely different products, and the vendor subsequently swapped the product in the listing for the Lightning splitter. Also easy to find reviews in broken English posted within 1-2 days of each other. The litany goes on. That's not the interesting part. What I find interesting is Belkin, whose business model seems to tend to be source from about the same as these vendors in China, slap on a bunch of marketing with some so-so-but-not-spectacular QA and support, and marks up the result 5-800%, is themselves caught up in this. Their own offering in this category is complete trash just like all the other listings, based upon reviews and first-hand experience, with exactly the same failure mode (works for 1-6 months, then power and/or audio connection breaks down). Power banks seemed to go through the same sketchy phase, which I finally gave up upon and just started only buying Anker brand. Even though they weren't the absolute best, they were good enough, and I knew I wouldn't get utter trash out of the box. I have long suspected this entire state of affairs suits Amazon just fine. The more product categories that trash themselves like this, the more of an opening it gives Amazon to completely vertically integrate the entire supply chain for that category under their Basics label, and shove aside most/all of the trash vendors to the loud acclaim of consumers, who get so sick of the trash experience that they welcome the creeping Amazon monopolization with open arms and lusty cheers. I wouldn't at all be surprised if Amazon rolls out tiered-quality offerings beyond Basics as this effort takes hold. One possible way that might frustrate Amazon's efforts in this direction is more companies like Anker spot these opportunities (with a basic business model being "don't be completely toxic to your customers, build a reasonable product with reasonable support at a reasonable price point") and fill the empty niches, then exert absolutely tyrannical channel control. The manufacturer claims the only authorized Amazon (or even a whole set of online platforms) authorized channel sales to avoid commingling counterfeits, and comes down like a ton of bricks on anyone that tries to mom-and-pop resell online on staked-out e-commerce platforms. This is a live economics and marketing exercise in the power and utility of branding. Could be some interesting needs and solutions for supply chain verification coming out of this as well, with subtle, secret but cheaply-implemented, manufacturer-designed watermarks built into the products to catch authorized resellers trying to sneak in cheap counterfeits amongst their legit stock to illicitly boost their margins.

ClumsyPilot 7y ago

I applaud this as a recycling effort

neonate 7y ago

http://archive.md/UbD7r http://archive.md/UbD7r

uoaei 7y ago

Our Christmas bonus this year at our small startup was a large Amazon gift card. I'm intensely conflicted on applying it to my account. But that amount of money is not insignificant and I feel almost obligated to use it despite my ethical qualms with Amazon. How might my fellow HN denizens navigate this situation? I already asked HR and they don't want to exchange it for cash because "we already bought it" and "we don't want the bonus to be taxable income".

SuperFerret 7y ago
Sell it to somebody for slightly less than its worth.
SuperFerret 7y ago
Or a better idea, use it at Amazon but only from sellers that you think are ethical.
nanodeath 7y ago
Pretty sure there are places online where you can sell/exchange gift cards.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
jacobush 7y ago
It’s a one time thing, just do it
dwater 7y ago
Gift cards are taxable income, but if you point this out to HR it probably won't make them happier with you. https://www.shrm.org/ResourcesAndTools/hr-topics/compensation/Pages/Holiday-Gifts-Taxable.aspx https://www.shrm.org/ResourcesAndTools/hr-topics/compensatio...
- uoaei 7y ago
  How the hell do I navigate this re: filing taxes? I'm an independent contractor. Obviously the best answer is "talk to a CPA" but I'm curious if anyone has insight into how to wade through this.

bdcravens 7y ago

I ordered coffee that I commonly get at the grocery store. I just got a cardboard box filled with loose k-cups, with no expiration information. Not sure if the paywalled article mentions this, but you can’t return food products. I did leave a 1-star review and ended up drinking them (coffee is less of an expiration issue) but I still wasn’t happy about it.

turtlebits 7y ago

There's so much Amazon bashing it seems to be a bandwagon. I wish there was more focus on other stores getting what Amazon has done right. The shopping (and return) experience at Amazon is so far superior than any other online or brick and mortar store. Things that suck: Payments - What is the point of contactless payments when still I have to put in my PIN, cashback prompt and finally accept the amount? Online order/store pickup. Why do I have to wait in line and have my ID checked? Returns are the absolute worst - every experience I've had is at least a 10+ minute wait.

danShumway 7y ago
> Returns are the absolute worst - every experience I've had is at least a 10+ minute wait. > The shopping (and return) experience at Amazon is so far superior I don't get it. An Amazon return process will also take me 5-10 minutes to complete online, and then it requires me to have a printer and packaging on-hand to ship the item back to Amazon. Then to get a replacement I need to wait multiple days for both the return to process, and the replacement to ship. I live in a suburban area, so for a physical store I drive 15-20 minutes, wait 10 minutes for the return to process, and then get in my car with the replacement and drive back home. I can get the entire thing done in less than an hour. I don't need to print anything, I don't need to box anything up. I can go from noticing a part is defective to having a replacement in my hand in an hour. You seem to be optimizing for different metrics than me, or you live way farther from most physical stores than I do. It's annoying to type in a pin, I guess, but I'm happy to take that ~15 second loss if it means I can save 2 days of waiting for a package to arrive.
- turtlebits 7y ago
  Maybe you don't have Amazon dropoff locations, but essentially I walk in the door, walk to a staff member handling returns, and they scan a QR code on my phone and I hand over the item. Never encountered a line and am always out within a minute. It doesn't need to be packed in a taped box with a label on it.
  - danShumway 7y ago

m3kw9 7y ago

So you decide to get a jar, put crap in it , mislabel it and sell it, and it worked. Makes you a fraud. What’s new?

adamc 7y ago

I think the way I'm coming to see Amazon is like a street vendor. If it's something I would be willing to buy from a random guy on a street, then sure, I can buy it from Amazon. If I need more assurances... it's a poor source.

turtlebits 7y ago
The only difference is that if there's something wrong with it, you can easily return it. And their returns process is worlds better than any brick and mortar.
par 7y ago
At least with a street vendor I can see what I am getting before I pay for it. Amazon is arguably worse than a reputable street vendor.

notjtrig 7y ago

I sell my trash on eBay as most of it is in pretty bad shape when I get it. Any ideas where to get better quality trash than Bed Bath and Beyond, Staples, Harbor Freight ewaste pickups and transfer stations?

einpoklum 7y ago

> You are buying trash on Amazon There, fixed that for you. Or maybe it should be: > You might be buying from trash - Amazon To be less facetious, though, Amazon is one of the corporations which scares me the most. It seems to be sucking up so much of the economy, and only getting more voracious over time.

lucb1e 7y ago

Wait but, if the product is indistinguishable from new (else it wouldn't be news that you're buying "trash" from Amazon if everyone already knew that), what's the problem? You get the same warranty, the product gets a second life, it's good for the environment, it can be cheaper because it didn't have to be manufactured again (good for you)... The downside is obviously that the "new" status was a lie, but if it's truly indistinguishable, I really don't find it all that objectionable.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
rootusrootus 7y ago
> You get the same warranty What warranty? Are you referring to the "A-to-z Guarantee" that Amazon provides on merchandise from third-party sellers? I'd hesitate to think of that as a warranty.
- lucb1e 7y ago
  I mean the general warranty law (European or the country's implementation), so 2 years on new electronics for example (European law) or "however long a product may reasonably be expected to work" (Dutch implementation of that law, which makes manufacturers go 'wtf' and they tell everyone 2 years and most people don't know that they have any rights after 2 years, e.g. a TV definitely shouldn't break after 2 years).
  - rootusrootus 7y ago
    That is interesting, I wonder how enforcement of that works on a product that does not have a clear chain of custody back to the manufacturer.
    - lucb1e 7y ago
      I haven't been exact enough. I mention manufacturer because I guess that vendors just copy the manufacturer's warranty statement for the European market, but in reality it's the vendor that has to provide the warranty. I don't think consumer rights laws care whether the vendor has a reliable manufacturer to back them on this. If you buy from cheap-electronics.example.nl and they order crap from China, it's still up to Cheap Electronics B.V. (or whatever they're registered as) to provide warranty. If there is no clear chain of custody, the vendor should have thought that through before deciding to buy from them. The vendor is legally not allowed to redirect you to the manufacturer: the vendor has to handle warranty, not send the customer to the manufacturer. (I know a thing or two about our warranty system because a company tried to screw me out of a few hundred euros that I only got back after half a year of weekly nagging, and not before I had sent a letter outlining exactly what the law is and which steps and fees would be leading up to a court case which they would definitely lose. As a student, I didn't have the money to pay a lawyer for that stuff, and the law allows for self-representation in small claims so that's what I prepared for. I should also give credit to the ACM/Consuwijzer that have excellent documentation understandable for anyone.)

4ec0755f5522 7y ago

Amazon is eating itself alive. The general population may not have figured it out yet but high-users (Prime members) definitely see the problems and most importantly DO. NOT. TRUST. AMAZON. ANYMORE. The brand is halfway down the toilet in terms of online retail and I do not think they can turn it around in time. Their whole strategy is based on speed and they've found garbage third party sellers a speed advantage. They are not competing on quality at all. They are not offering a quality experience, they are not selling quality, it is not in their product plan. So if you are shopping for quality experience or quality product you do not shop on Amazon. It is only a matter of time I think before this awareness hits critical mass.

dang 7y ago
Please don't use uppercase for emphasis. If you want to emphasize a word or phrase, put asterisks around it and it will get italicized. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
beatgammit 7y ago
The only thing keeping me on Prime is my wife, because she really likes that 2-day delivery and a few shows on Prime Video. Since Amazon recently started putting ads on their videos, and because it's harder and harder to sift through the crap. Unless Amazon does something big, I'll try making the case again to my wife to leave them. She's been ordering more and more from other retailers, so it shouldn't be a hard case to make.

OJFord 7y ago

Well, yeah. Sort by price, low to high, and observe two things: 1. For all it's technical acumen, Amazon apparently can't figure out how to order things by price 2. Amazon sells a lot of tack, junk, trash, and tat.

sproketboy 7y ago

So what?

aussieguy1234 7y ago

https://outline.com/LFSy2r https://outline.com/LFSy2r. Step 1: Use bit.ly to shorten WSJ url. Step 2: Outline shortened url.

netwanderer3 7y ago

Amazon must be careful. They may be slowly losing it without even knowing. When a customer considers buying something online, what are the main criteria driving their decision-making process? The most important criteria are the ones that will not change very often no matter what happens, and should always remain true even in 10 or 20 years time from now. These are: "a wide selection of goods, great prices, authentic merchandises, convenience (fast shipping time to anywhere)". Amazon do not always have the best online prices anymore these days. Based on many online reports, they are increasingly letting in inauthentic merchandises by 3rd party sellers. Their shipping time is still outstanding though, plus a very wide selection of goods which are what keep them going mainly these days. Amazon should be very cautious, if another platform could beat them to the two main key criteria in the near future then they may lose some of their market share. In the quest of chasing for growth, sometimes companies could overlook these basic principles.

wildduck 7y ago

one man's trash is another man's treasure. It is just supply and demand.