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Why Are Young People Pretending to Love Work?
- chrisseaton 8y ago> Why Are Young People Pretending to Love Work? But I do love my work. I'm not pretending. I do look forward to sitting down to work on Monday morning. It's creative, fun, fulfilling, and satisfying. I just feel sorry for the author that they're so relentlessly incredulous that anyone could find joy in doing something.
- stiller 8y agoI'm sure they believe some people love what they do, it's just unlikely that the majority of the people grinding away as office drones do.
- hoaw 8y agoI am not so sure. People tend to adapt to things they can't change. They put their hopes and dreams into it and end up loving the idea. I know people who "love" their apartment, but it is just an average apartment with a huge mortgage. The question as always is of course whether it is real love. Chances are a lot of people will be disappointed at one point.
- stiller 8y agoInteresting point. I love my wife and children in the sense that seeing them thrive makes me happy and I'm willing to sacrifice my own comfort (and probably even wellbeing) in order to increase theirs. Some people seem to have a similar relationship with their employer, which baffles me.
- wh0knows 8y agoI think you're getting the sentiment mixed up. People aren't sacrificing their own wellbeing in order to increase their company's, but rather, they find the work they do personally sayisfying and rewarding. For instance, I enjoy my job, I don't dread Mondays. I like my coworkers and the work atmosphere, I enjoy creating tangible value and I find the success of my work projects intrinsically satisfies me. But at the same time, I don't work weekends, I don't work outside my ~40 hours, and I don't sacrifice my wellbeing for my job. So I work hard because of the personal satisfaction, I don't do it to make already rich people even richer. I don't know how it is for others, but personally if I didn't get some level of internal satisfaction and motivation from how I spent the working time of the best years of my life I would be quite depressed.
- hoaw 8y agoPeople are definitely depressed, especially relative to how things should be. You don't see it much on hacker news, but you do on other forums. 20 year olds who are relatively well educated who see no future. I don't want to take anything away from you. If you are enjoying your job and your life, that is truly great. But I would encourage you to take care of your future. Make sure you have progression, or something else, to show for it. You wouldn't be the first one to change perspective when life, or work, changes.
- toomuchtodo 8y ago"85% of People Hate Their Jobs, Gallup Poll Says" https://news.gallup.com/opinion/chairman/212045/world-broken-workplace.aspx https://news.gallup.com/opinion/chairman/212045/world-broken...
- pbhjpbhj 8y agoI'm sure I heard a much higher figure recently but 2000 UK employees surveyed gives 40% looking to change job this year - https://www.thehrdirector.com/business-news/jobseekers/change-jobs256/ https://www.thehrdirector.com/business-news/jobseekers/chang.... That doesn't necessarily mean they don't love their work, most dissatisfaction is with bosses usually in these surveys, but it's certainly an indicator. Loving your work and not loving your job also leaves you more likely unhappy too, or at least malcontent.
- ken 8y agoWhat's your explanation for the mechanism behind this? Jobs are universally good and bad, and most unlucky people just have to do the bad ones? Do we really need as many "office drones" as we have? Alternative mechanisms: People pick (or are guided into) their career path when they're young and don't know any better, and by the time they figure out what they really want to do, they have obligations and can't make a big change. People don't know what other jobs are available to them in the world, and don't realize that they might enjoy something else far more than what they're doing. I wish there were a "Dirty Jobs" show for all kinds of careers, not just physically messy jobs. School (all levels) did a terrible job of informing me of what is involved in various careers.
- zepto 8y agoDo you think that’s true for more than a small minority of people? The author isn’t incredulous that anyone could find joy in doing something. Of course some people love their work. The author is contending that a lot of people don’t, but feel like they have to pretend that they do for cultural reasons.
- claudiawerner 8y agoThere's a good book[0] I continually recommend which traces why people really do love their jobs, and especially the transition between the concept of work in earlier capitalism to the concept we have today. In short, companies (directly or not) put a lot of effort into making sure that your desire aligns with theirs, past the desire to materially sustain ourselves which Marx theorised originally. A summary of the book: >Why do people work for other people? This seemingly naïve question is at the heart of Lordon’s argument. To complement Marx’s partial answers, especially in the face of the disconcerting spectacle of the engaged, enthusiastic employee, Lordon brings to bear a “Spinozist anthropology” that reveals the fundamental role of affects and passions in the employment relationship It is provocative and refreshing to even unsympathetic readers. [0] Frederick Lordon - *Willing Slaves of Capital: Spinoza and Marx on Desire" https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/228873/willing-slaves-of-capital-by-frederic-lordon/9781781681619 https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/228873/willing-slav...
- sitkack 8y agoI love the work your lab does, but you are seriously lucky no matter how hard you worked to get there. There are only so many positions like yours in the world. The vast majority of the people didn't and don't have the opportunities you had. This comes off like a humble brag. I don't think you feel sorry.
- praneshp 8y agoMeh, I am an utterly replaceable software writer at a SF company, and feel like the OP wrote down what I was feeling. It's fairly easy to find out where I work, and I think you'd agree that I'm not curing cancer or anything. I do wake up Monday mornings excited about work (and try to change teams/companies when that stops being true)
- chrisseaton 8y agoBefore I went into research I used to have a previous career that was hard, dirty, dangerous, and poorly paid, and I took as much joy in Monday mornings then as well.
- coleifer 8y agoYou're projecting! The author did not strike me as being incredulous. I think your own comment, your reading of the article, and your insistence (nobody is arguing with you) that you love your work -- this is the phenomenon being examined in the article. Edit: sorry to see this downvoted. Guess it's a little on the nose.
- chrisseaton 8y agoI think the author is the one projecting. They don’t like work, they don’t want to feel anyone else does either because that would mean they’re missing out on something, and they’re so convinced that they think everyone who does must be lying.
- coleifer 8y agoPerhaps we're both right, in a way?
- eertami 8y agoBut would you turn up to your work on Monday morning if it didn't pay you a salary? Even people that "love" work usually know that it isn't the thing they would most want to spend their time doing if they had the choice.
- chrisseaton 8y ago> But would you turn up to your work on Monday morning if it didn't pay you a salary? I literally did while doing my PhD! And I quit a previous paying job to do it even. I couldn’t literally do it for free now as I have commitments and dependents of course.
- PakG1 8y agoThis is the real test. If money was taken care of, I'd probably be doing something else with my time. In my case, I've found the most fulfillment volunteering in very remote areas. My job is good, but I'm under no illusion that I love it or that it loves me.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- thoman23 8y agoIf money was already taken care of, I would absolutely be building software (and playing music). I just wouldn't be doing it at my current job (the software part...my music would be frowned upon at work).
- TomVDB 8y agoMy hobby is essentially the same as my work, except I have way more resources (equipment) at work.
- bearmcbearsly 8y agoAt Google and other recent tech giants, you'll find thousands of people who could live comfortably without working a day for the rest of their lives. They're clearly not doing it for the salary.
- diminoten 8y agoIt's important for the author of this article and those who think like him that you're lying to yourself, because that way they're not the ones with the problem.
- parthdesai 8y agoI'll go on even to say this. A lot of people who actually love their work aren't posting a post/story on instagram every Monday #hustle. It's almost the same as a lot of people who actually go to gym regularly won't post on instagram about their work outs compared to people who go once in a blue moon or only go for 2 weeks and then stop who will post "hustle never stops/keep grinding everyday"
- pcstl 8y agoIt seems to be a trend in media to try to convince people that fulfillment must be found in life - but not in work. Anywhere but work. Work is supposed to be mindless drudgery which you only do because you’re forced to, and if you think otherwise you’ve been taken in by the evil capitalists.
- pbhjpbhj 8y agoWe must consume different media; I'd honestly have placed it the other way, that media in general preaches that fulfilment should be found in work and that those who haven't found it there, and aren't rich and successful in a job they love, are themselves the problem. That said you can enjoy your work but still be being used as a peon for a greedy capitalist; they're pretty orthogonal.
- zanny 8y agoOften times, the most exploited workers are the ones who love their job. Because of that, they don't ask for raises, seek workers rights, or diversify their lifestyle. They sleep in their car in the parking lot making the boss millions of dollars a year on entry level salary because "they love the job". The boss then gets to laugh all the way to the bank. Its not that liking your job is bad, its treating employment in the traditional sense - salaried or hourly - as if being charitable with your time or ability to your employer because you like doing it so much is a virtue. It isn't, its just giving those with power more power out of laziness. Because its lazy to just give yourself away like that. It takes courage and strength and effort to fight for fair compensation and a balanced lifestyle that doesn't revolve around making someone else filthy rich.
- FooBarWidget 8y ago> The boss then gets to laugh all the way to the bank. I don’t know whether it is true that such bosses expertly manipulate passionate workers into slavery. Based on experience, I have an alternative theory: those kinds of bosses have an “ambitious” personality (for the lack of a better word). They are never happy no matter how much they achieve, and so they demand more and more from others. It may very well be that in the end they end up with a lot of wealth, but in their minds they failed because they’re comparing themselves with even more successful people. So it’s more a case of “crying all the way to the bank even thiugh the account is filled”.
- mikelyons 8y agoHow do you fight for this? What leverage do you have? There's another kid that can do the job just as well, directly behind you. I am possibly wrong, but I would really like an answer about how to fight for more compensation, it seems that we are expendable ...
- zanny 8y agoIf you are expendable expect to be exploited. Its why so many programmers go out of their way to become needed - if you are the only one who properly understands critical code in your business, you have leverage. If they can replace you with a week of onboarding you are going to be treated like dirt most places. Sometimes that means not going out of your way to explain how you implemented a feature. If your company is going to treat you like an expendable money sink treat them like a hostile actor too.
- barrkel 8y ago> But I do love my work. I'm not pretending The article is about people who are glorifying the striving, not the work. It's about the hustle, not the doing. It's specifically humourless, not fun.
- pje 8y agoReally missing the point of the article here my dude
- zepto 8y agoIsn’t the answer obvious?: Work has become much more precarious again and looking like you aren’t into it is a competitive disadvantage that few can risk.
- maccio92 8y agoOr maybe some people actually do love the work they do... Are people really this disenfranchised that they can't possibly imagine that some people really are doing work they enjoy? I love my career and the work I do is fulfilling and gives me a sense of accomplishment
- openloop 8y agoBecause our parents are models for god. They failed and we are stuck in a rerun because we love them.
- kome 8y agoBecause, unless you are in some market niche, surviving got really complicated. > It is obsessed with striving, relentlessly positive, devoid of humor, and — once you notice it — impossible to escape. That's the world we build for ourselves. Let me quote a passage from Max Weber, in his book "The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism": "The Puritan wanted to work in a calling; we are forced to do so. For when asceticism was carried out of monastic cells into everyday life, and began to dominate worldly morality, it did its part in building the tremendous cosmos of the modern economic order. This order is now bound to the technical and economic conditions of machine production which to-day determine the lives of all the individuals who are born into this mechanism, not only those directly concerned with economic acquisition, with irresistible force." If others are stepping the game up, we have to step the game up too if we want to survive. Is this good or right?
- whatshisface 8y agoThey call it the Puritan work ethic, but I'm pretty sure the Puritans had kids. It's more like the "Japanese population collapse work ethic."
- mathieuh 8y agoI actually do really like work (wouldn’t say ‘love’), am 23 and have a consulting side-hustle which pays somewhere like 220% more per hour than my salaries job. I’m not doing this consulting work because I love software so much my day job isn’t giving me enough satisfaction, I’m doing it to earn well-needed money. I got into heroin addiction a couple of years ago and built up a decent debt (in total probably about 50% of my annual income). Put simply, I need somewhere to live and something to eat. I’ve interviewed at other companies which offer me about 40% more than where I’m working now, but my company has stuck by me so I’m going to stick by them. Basically, I wonder how many people are working like this due to circumstances beyond their control. Workers fought for centuries to get the 40-hour work week, something seems wrong when we’re stating to go the other way. (I have been clean of heroin and all drugs except nicotine, alcohol and cannabis since around mid-August, I don’t keep track of the date anymore because last time I got clean I got completely fixated on it)
- coleifer 8y agoIf you're going to stick by your company, why are you interviewing? PS, good luck staying clean. Hit me up if you want to talk, I've been through similar stuff.
- mathieuh 8y agoJust preliminary phone interviews I get from recruiters on LinkedIn, I don't take them seriously. It's just always good to keep up with the industry. Thanks for the offer of talking, I feel pretty secure in myself right now (no desire to use due to the adverse effects it has on literally every factor of my life except feeling really good for a few hours. I don't miss having to ask colleagues to get me a coffee because I couldn't walk the 10 minutes there and back to Starbucks, or having people staring into your eyes to see if you're high, or more obviously, the bruises and trackmarks, Weed, alcohol and I'm trying to quit nicotine, then I'm hitting the gym. Already signed up.
- BigChiefSmokem 8y agoYou are 23 and you are talking about loyalty to some consultancy company? I can tell you right now you have a bad perspective from inexperience. You are worth probably (definitely) more than any company can value you at so get over the idea of "loyalty" in this industry young buck. Be eager to do great work not a ton of work.
- golemotron 8y agoSignaling.
- golemotron 8y agoWhy is this downvoted?
- Retra 8y agoReasons.
- nononotnot 8y agoleading the witness. Some are some are not. clickbait nyt
- Spooky23 8y agoSociety has systematically devalued things like family, marriage and community. It’s like a variant of Orwell’s vision. The proles are probably the happiest ones.
- dsaavy 8y agoWhile I enjoy my work, you’ve got to have breaks even from things you love. It seems doubtful that even if someone is in love with something, they try to spend all day, every day thinking about it or doing it. Heck, I love my SO and my dogs but I need breaks from them as well lol. Some people love work, some people don’t. That being said, the excessive propaganda that work, work, work doesn’t typically benefit the person working as much as those they report to, like the article points out. That seems to be the main issue rather than an entrepreneur trying to materialize their dream.
- pizzazzaro 8y agoBut listen - someone has to babysit the datacenter, just like taking out the trash, or fixing people's plumbing. When even low level retail job listings demand A Burning Passion!!!!!11oneoneeleven for the terrible job? They're trying to find the people who would do this work anyway, without getting paid for it. Why? So they can pay us all less. When we work partially for the privilege of what we do, money matters less... and we can get away with expecting less. Anyone else? Is too busy fitting this mold to even be able to ask for a raise.
- firloop 8y agoI'm happiest when I'm working hard on meaningful problems that I care about. I also understand that everyone doesn't feel that way. I think that's okay too. I don't understand why this needs to turn into a debate or perpetual flame war.
- assblaster 8y agoI wrote about this previously, but here it goes again: I think the 7 day "work" week is the most life-relaxing way to work. I try to work 7 days a week. Some days I work 3 hours, some rare days I work 36 hours. When I'm not working, I'm enjoying that time and not stressing out regarding income taking time off, because I know I have given it my 100% and not held anything back. It is satisfying. I feel relaxed at work. I feel well rested. I think the 5 day work week is soul-crushing: there's just enough time off from work that you dread coming back, and there's enough time at work that you feel overworked. 40 hours over 7 days is a little over 5 hours per day, and sprinkling in a couple 12 hour days spreads the remaining work to 5 three-hour days.
- sonnyblarney 8y agoYou're going to grind yourself to death. The huge advantage of the 7th day is that you know you cannot work, nobody else is working, that it's pointless and you can relax. It's 'the time for not working'. When you work 'every day' - the nagging of 'maybe I can do something' always exists. If you put in your time on the 5 days, then you can have this 'I know I gave it 100%' feeling. Also, knowing that you can 'finish stuff on the weekend' I find makes one even a little bit more likely to procrastinate! I've lived extensively in both worlds (i.e. 5, 6 , 7 days) and I think 7 will catch up to you. It caught up to me.
- assblaster 8y agoWhen I go home at 11am, I know that I won't be working until the next morning. I can do whatever I want during my free time, I can go shopping, spend time with family, watch Netflix, work on house projects, exercise, etc. If instead I have to work until 5pm every single week day, I will feel stressed/exhausted when I come home, and when the weekend comes around, I need to fit in all the things I couldn't fit in during the week. In other words: I would have to hustle on my personal time because I know that Monday will come very soon and unless I get it done now, I won't be able to get it done until the following weekend. I worked 5 day weeks before and I was miserable and exhausted. I work 7 days now and I'm invigorated. And I make a ton more money as well. I do wish I had more time to travel, but I can take care of that once I've built up enough savings to retire at age 50.
- d357r0y3r 8y agoThere are multiple things happening here. I don't think a majority or even a double-digit percentage of young people have what this author is calling "hustler" mentality, but we'll ignore that, and focus on the people who do have it. Thoughts on "hustle" culture in no particular order... - Some people are legitimately trying to build a business and be first to market. There are arguments for and against burning the midnight oil, but it could be a rational thing to do. - Some people are filling a void in their lives left by the evaporation of community, family, and church. The "hustler" types typically live away from their family, don't have kids, and certainly are not going to church. Immersing yourself in a lifestyle with other people struggling, in the same way, is a decent way of feeling like you're a part of something. - This is probably just a thing in places like NYC and SF where you're surrounded by hyper-successful people at all times. That's why they call it a rat race. FWIW, I've never been able to work anything like a 12-14 hour day unless it was something I truly wanted to do. There was no pretending.
- SquishyPanda23 8y agoYou raise an interesting point about filling a void. I have talked to more than a few hustlers who had fairly deep rooted issues around failure and rejection and not amounting to enough. This is present in all populations, but I personally have noticed that it's strikingly common among people trying to create startups compared to other groups of people I talk to.
- d1zzy 8y agoThe same is true for many great athletes, they are "running from something". It makes a lot of sense that at the very top of any human activity only those that have had the talent, a bit of luck and _very importantly_ sacrificed everything else over it will make it. And that's much more "easier" to do when there's something in their lives driving them strongly towards that goal. I wouldn't even say that's a bad thing. The achievements of those people push humanity forward and even if you focus on the person, if they wouldn't have done that what makes you think they would have otherwise been happy and productive members of society?
- 8y ago
- quaunaut 8y agoGod damn, do I hate cynicism. The entire tone of this article, written by someone whose beat is literally "Startups and venture capital for the New York Times" according to their Twitter bio, is so absolutely beyond patronizing and Knows-Better-Than-You that they can't possibly fathom the idea of people both enjoying work, and having a purpose that is a long way off. So you're working for someone else's startup right now. They're getting rich off your work. Is the idea that you might be working to prepare yourself for a next job, a startup of your own, somewhere where you have a larger piece of the pie, completely unreasonable? Not all of us came from families that can afford to put us up for the time it takes to get the funds to start. Others of us already have families and want something better. Furthermore, yes, this generation really does seem to give a fuck about making the world a better place. It often materializes in ways that personally enrich ourselves, but such is capitalism: There's literally no way to be widely effective at helping people that doesn't also enrich yourself along the way. Hence why all the largest charities have significant government sponsorship alongside, and Religion is more commonly seen today as the ignorant hideaway for homophobia, sexism, and the status quo. But many of us also think that we have an idea, that might just work, that is hard to execute on. So why not work toward it? I'll never fault someone for hating their job. My first gig was being the locker room towel boy for a bunch of fat, sweaty rich people in the densest population of poverty in America at the time(Fresno, CA). The job I got before I became a professional coder was delivering car parts in Claremore, OK, for a guy who store rumor said did some stuff to kids. At that job, I worked 80-90 hour weeks and only billed 50 because I both didn't know what I was doing, and was afraid of being yelled at by my boss. But for those of us who have something better than that, who enjoy bettering themselves at their craft, while making stabs and tries at something better- why be a cynic about our day job is still a job? Yeah, it's the rat race. But I'm not doing it for a big house, or a car, or fame or fortune. I'm doing it because I hope I can say I left this place better than I found it.
- ravenstine 8y agostagnant wages + media glorification of big tech = millennials fighting for studio apartments
- sonnyblarney 8y agoThey're not faking it, they believe they have impact and are finally able to have the identity and distinction of 'real responsibility'. They are 'grown ups now' able to live their lives and do real things. That said - this for those in decent jobs and most of the generation actually doesn't believe that 'hard work' is a defining quality. I looked up the reference but sadly could not find it but from 'greatest generation' to 'baby boomers' to 'gen X' - they all put 'hard work' as a top 5 characteristic of their gen. Gen Y/Z are the first to not include this. It may be a matter of semantics or wording, or even their perception of others in their generation as opposed to an objective reality.
- viburnum 8y agoIf you're lucky, and many tech workers are, at the beginning of your career work can be insanely fun because, unlike school, you're finally spending most of your time doing the one thing you're good at it, you're gaining skills rapidly, and you're getting paid to do it. The thrill wears off after a few years.
- d357r0y3r 8y agoEh, I'm like...7 years in or so. It's still pretty fun. It feels good to develop expertise and to have valuable insights that people are interested in. If I were still doing the same job as when I started, I think I'd be very bored.
- gchamonlive 8y agoThe title is a little misleading. It leads us to believe that young people pretend to love work regardless of working conditions > I saw the greatest minds of my generation log 18-hour days — and then boast about #hustle on Instagram. This summarizes the idea better. It is unnatural to love an activity that simply drains you of all your time and energy. I "work" all the time. I'm always doing some course, doing actual work, learning, practicing different skills, but mostly I do it in my free time. The author questions then the surprising nature of the relationship young people have with extremely time consuming jobs, and I believe that is a valid criticism. We need to protect the youth from believing it is OK to reduce the daily routine to sleep and work. Health, mental and social problems all rise from such situations and cost a lot of money from society, from having to waste time and money on therapy specifically to counter those issues that rose from work abuse, to ultimately crippling depression and suicide
- Bucephalus355 8y agolol yesterday I saw an ad from JP Morgan on Twitter...”why young people don’t just want a paycheck”. The ad led you to page that talked about how a charity in Seattle got basically 2 weeks of free work from an entry level dev at a JP Morgan event...and now the dev works at the bank. The subtext of all this of course, wink wink, was how to pay your employees less by giving them something, anything, other than the one thing they actually need, money.
- crack-the-code 8y agoHere are some of my reasons why I love working (and working hard): 1. I actually enjoy programming and working with others. 2. Sense of purpose. Working with others towards a common goal. 3. Reward. The harder I work, the more I increase my chances of greater financial output. 4. Recognition. When my boss or peers acknowledge my accomplishments, it makes me feel proud. 5. Growth. A lot of my personal development has come from wisdom gained through work.
- KaoruAoiShiho 8y agoWork is not some uniquely arduous activity. I blog for fun, as a writer I'm sure she would find that to be "work". Even playing video games could be work nowadays. Sex and going to restaurants could also be work to some people. If the "work" is cool and rewarding it could be good. The writer probably grew up in an era where work is divorced from achievement and the results are all sucked up by some far away corporation. Then it sucks, but the problem with that is not work, but that somebody is stealing the credit for your work.
- coleifer 8y agoI think some people are confusing the point. It's not about whether or not you enjoy your work. It's about the glamorization of working more than others. I think a critical mass of people have bought into the belief that overwork is equivalent with success. That dedication to work is heroic. So there's signalling going on, a desire to cultivate the image of being a winner (in this narrow sense). There's also naivety... people who buy into this and aren't just signalling but truly think working in this way is somehow reflective of the superiority they desire to possess. So there's a cyclical effect, one group feeding back into the other.
- gerbilly 8y ago> I think a critical mass of people have bought into the belief that overwork is equivalent with success. Basically it's another one of those misunderstanding implication fallacies. They are saying: hard work <=>success (equivalence) When really: success => hard work (hard work is necessary for success)[1] hard work =/> success (hard work is not sufficient for success) [1] Mostly.
- vertline3 8y agoI doubt they are the "greatest minds of his generation" that probably goes to someone like Terry Tao
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- rayiner 8y ago> When did performative workaholism become a lifestyle? During the Protestant Reformation? Another sign of young peoples' rightward drift: https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/generation-zs-rightward-drift https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/generation-....
- curuinor 8y agocompare to the data: http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2019/01/17/generation-z-looks-a-lot-like-millennials-on-key-social-and-political-issues/ http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2019/01/17/generation-z-looks...
- rayiner 8y agoThat survey looks at current views, not views across generations at the same age. Older people are more conservative on average, but there is evidence that millennials and Gen Z are more conservative than their parents and grandparents were at the same age: https://capitalresearch.org/article/the-conservative-millennial-no-longer-a-myth/ https://capitalresearch.org/article/the-conservative-millenn...
- pseudalopex 8y agoYou have a good point, but that article is not convincing. Most of the claims don't consider other generations at the same age either. The statistic about abortion comes from a push poll conducted by an anti-abortion organization. The claim about Obamacare is cherry-picked from an Atlantic article about how cherry-picking polling results can make young people look very conservative or very liberal!
- pcwalton 8y agoCapital Research Center is a right-wing think tank that, unsurprisingly, has a biased take on the paper. From the original article: https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/07/health/millennials-conservative-generations/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/07/health/millennials-conservati... > "At that particular time [in the paper], however, young people were especially unlikely to identify as Republicans or conservatives because of the short-term effects of the Vietnam War and the Watergate scandal. If we exclude the 1970s from the analysis, it looks by my reading of the tables and figures as if the political attitudes of the young have remained fairly stable over time, and in some respects they have liberalized somewhat," Hopkins said about the new paper. The idea that millennials are opposed to the ACA is a particularly misleading take. I suspect if you dig into why millennials claim to oppose the ACA, it'll largely be because the ACA is perceived as not liberal enough relative to universal health care systems.
- bjornlouser 8y ago“Welcome to hustle culture. It is obsessed with striving, relentlessly positive, devoid of humor...” I remember a time when humor helped build trust and friendship at work. I remember laughing at work...
- decebalus1 8y agoThis is one of the things which really rubs me the wrong way. I've rejected a couple of offers over the years simply because the interviewers came off as weird robots with poles up their asses (that unfortunately includes Google, where the people I met couldn't take a joke but had no problem laughing about others). You CAN crack a joke without being unprofessional, especially if it's about the profession. I don't understand why people choose not to do that. Humor is one hell of a stress coping mechanism and inside jokes are a side effect of having a cohesive team.
- agensaequivocum 8y agoI'm 25 and while I enjoy software engineering I would much rather just spend time with my wife and child. I work only for the well-being of my family. My first priorities are God and family, and it is here that I know my purpose in life.
- 3riverdev 8y agoWell said. It's the means to an end, not the end itself.
- etrautmann 8y agoI appreciate how clearly you know your priorities. They're slightly different for me and having a larger set of uncertain priorities can be fatiguing.
- burlesona 8y agoI suspect you’ll get some scorn from this audience, but I appreciate you sharing this. In the end we all need to find meaning in life, and I’m glad to hear when anyone has found that.
- crimsonalucard 8y agoI'm older than you and still trying to find the purpose you have. For now I fill my emptiness/time with a "love" of software engineering.
- potta_coffee 8y agoThis is true wisdom. It's a worn out saying, but no-one on their deathbed looks back and says, "I wish I'd worked more." Much better to be surrounded by the children you lovingly raised.
- agensaequivocum 8y agoVery true.
- nathan_f77 8y ago> no-one on their deathbed looks back and says, "I wish I'd worked more." This is a bit off-topic, but I've read a few stories that contradict this on the /r/financialindependence subreddit [1]. I can't find the link now, but there was a person who asked their Dad if they had any regrets. Their Dad said that they wished they hadn't retired so early, and that they had spend more time working. They enjoyed their job and they missed feeling useful and having a sense of purpose. I think it's common for people to quit their jobs too early and lose their sense of purpose, and it's even linked to a 20% higher mortality rate when you're 60+ [2]. Of course family is more important and you should spend as much time as possible with your children. But I was just surprised to learn that some people really do say "I wish I'd worked more" on their deathbed (or in their old age.) [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence [2] https://www.marketwatch.com/story/retiring-early-could-kill-you-2017-12-22 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/retiring-early-could-kill-...
- sgspace 8y agoI have recently been applying for a new software engineering job. Any job that has included in the listing for job responsibilities: "A passion for what you do", I have not applied to. The amount of jobs I have skipped due to this "job responsibility" is ridiculous. I am good at what I do. I will come to work, work a full day maybe even longer, then go home and unwind or do something non software related. I am not trying to burn out. Why is it not enough to just be good at your job and work an honest day every day? Why do I have to love every moment of it as well? I am not going to fake it because that lead to burnout at my last job. Who has a passion for writing crummy software for someone else anyways? By skipping those jobs, I think I have found the right one where I am surrounded by down to earth like minded people who are still good at what they do. I start in a couple weeks and I am actually looking forward to working now.
- kpwagner 8y agoHonesty and self-awareness. I'll take those over naive emphatic workaholism.
- BigChiefSmokem 8y agoHave you watched the documentaries on the Fyre Festival?Everyone in the company can be honest but if the top isn't then it doesn't matter. You can't really know that up front.
- mobilemidget 8y ago... I probably should have read this when I turned 20...
- kpwagner 8y agoFret not. I was a naive emphatic workaholic my first two years out of college--working as an investment banking analyst. It's taken me ten years to figure out that I wasn't honest with myself (or others) about what I wanted, and I've paid a price.
- SpicyLemonZest 8y ago
- JDiculous 8y agoAs uninteresting as most modern day employment work is, what bothers me most is the lack of concern for the meaning of one's work. I'm all in favor of people "hustling" and working hard if it's for something that benefits humanity and/or something they genuinely want to work on. But most people aren't taking us to the moon or curing cancer, they're selling crap people don't need. The dystopian motivational quotes in the article are like the business version of "keeping up with the Joneses" Not that there's anything wrong with selling shakeweights. But I wish that instead of this #hustle culture, our culture was more geared towards making the world a better place. Of course for this to ever take place, at a minimum we'd probably need to end the precariousness of our economic system and free people from the servitude of boring 9-5 jobs (eg. UBI). But until workers see through the billionaire employer-brewn Kool-Aid and stop giving in to this propaganda, the young will continue to get exploited and waste their lives pursuing crap that will make a few rich, but ultimately doesn't add any value to society. But the fact that this article was even written by such a prominent publication gives me hope that the mainstream is beginning to see through the facade, or at least finally stop perpetuating the gospel they've been forced to preach.
- claudiawerner 8y agoThe notion of meaning in work was covered originally by Marx drawing on ideas from Hegel. Even Marx's fiercest detractors found his theory of alienation brilliant, along with the theory of commodity fetishism. It's a shame to me that many people end up rediscovering these ideas independently rather than seeing just how deep the insight of past thinkers has been and applicable to the modern day too.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- claudiawerner 8y agoYou are totally right, my phrasing was too strong, but Marx's theory is to date the most popular in sociology, though J accept there are others that predate him (though whatever strengths Mill had they were not philosophic). A lot of my comments concern Marx or Communism broadly because they are important ideas, and my chosen mode of analysis is to take advantage of totality in the critical sense. True, Marcuse said that not everyone's problem with his girlfriend is due to capitalism, but the analysis remains there to use advantageously. Secondly, the hat I wear as a programming hobbyist is generally secondary to the social sciences dabbler hat. So some thread interest me more than others. Now good faith insight and having an agenda are not of course mutually exclusice. Yes, I admit my ideology but I think its analyses in whole or part can probably be interesting to an audience far removed from it on HN. I only aim to help and spread what I know and am interested in; Marx was one of the most important thinkers of the modern age, along with Nietzsche and Freud, even the most ardent capitalist would say so. Maybe I will vary the topics I post about more, since looking at my history I can see your analysis might make sense. But as a side note, there are probably vim/Emacs/SQL/nosql/Linux/bsd fans here who engage very much in a similar way.. but still aim to help and educate. Having a preferred topic is fine.
- nyxxie 8y agoAll of the measures in this article to increase morale about work aren’t exploitative unless they’re being used to exploit workers. I don’t think the author made a really good case for this; instead they argued on the snuck premise that employers naturally want to squeeze their slaves dry and used that to conclude these measures are evil attempts to propagate “burnout culture” (look! A shiny new Term for us to use). In reality, this is easily explained as an attempt to merely increase positive feelings about work. I like the work I do, but a negative working environment is infectious and is usually a big productivity sapper for me. The tech industry has plenty of managers attempting to juice their slaves for as many hours at the keyboard as they can get, but I think carved cucumbers encouraging people in their work is mutually exclusive to that issue.
- solarkraft 8y agoMy company has some pretty good benefits. It's full of great people. I spend lots of time there. It's mostly enjoyable.
- randomacct3847 8y agoI cringe at the interview question of “why do you want to work here?” and the dance you play in saying anything and everything accept for “the paycheck.”
- ryanianian 8y agoIt shows if the candidate has seriously considered what the company does, how it operates, and what would mean for them to join the company. It also helps the interviewer take stock of what the candidate is looking for. If the candidate does well they can circle back to those interests and sell the candidate on the company a bit.
- mnm1 8y agoIt also shows the company and person asking this are completely out of touch with reality, basically arrogant idiots who think their candidate has time to research and make up a lie to answer their questions just like he has time to do the same for the other five hundred or a thousand job postings he replied to. It shows arrogance and way too much self-importance, both huge red flags for any employer. But at least they can target the best liars in their applicant pool.
- decebalus1 8y agoI always have a bunch of recruiter spam in the backlog whenever I want to switch jobs. And when I get that question I push back with something like 'You contacted me, I'm exploring opportunities in a couple of places so.. why should I want to work at your company?'
- triangleman 8y agoI recently helped interview 4 internal candidates for 2 openings on my team. One question I asked all of them is "how do you feel this job will contribute to your personal development/career?" It makes a huge difference if you can answer this question, because it's totally possible to get candidates who don't actually want the job but are just applying as a matter of course. Then they may struggle in the job or leave. You want someone motivated to do the job, you really do, or you will be doing them and yourself a disservice.
- burlesona 8y agoIs it just me or is this article exceptionally “New York City?” The work culture here in SF, in my experience anyway, is not at all like the article describes.
- akhilcacharya 8y agoI agree, but despite never being a New Yorker and still reading NYTimes every day I always forget that it is a New York City paper first. And because of it, I really shouldn't be surprised that part of their outlook is going to be focused on the elite circles available in NYC.
- Waterluvian 8y agoI dunno. I absolutely love what I do. 95% of my days don't feel like work. I work from home so I see my kids a ton more than I used to. I go to the park with my oldest after lunch. I have flexible hours. I do interesting stuff that challenges me. And I get a ton of freedom to design and implement solutions that I think are best (and learn from my mistakes). Finally, I've never once been pressured to work more than ~40 hours a week. My one issue is that I can't picture any other job ever being this compatible with how I want to live my life. I worry it'll never be this good elsewhere. Happiness handcuffs, if you will.
- dgreensp 8y agoIs your employer hiring?
- Eldandan 8y agoOof! This is where I am with teaching post-secondary at a non-research institution in California. 6 weeks of Winter and 6 weeks of summer off, with added pay to teach those intercessions? Scheduling classes so I get every Friday off? Yes please! I still dream of getting into more technical work where I get to solve interesting problems, but figuring out how to best teach a class and reduce equity gaps is a meaningful, interesting problem. If I ever find a different line of work I at a tech company, I worry about having the freedom and flexibility in my current job to raise my family in the same way.
- nie 8y agoI used to be the young people who love the work and made the work dominate my work life balance. My reason was quite simple: I felt this is the first time I have my ability validated, furthermore I was constantly surpassing my own expectations, I don't want it to stop. So in other words I don't belong to the group that are pretending to love work. For a long time I automatically think others must felt the same way. On the other hand I think it's not efficient nor effective to pretend that you love your work: you are evaluated based on your performance/competence anyway, although in work environment we like to call it your "enthusiasm", the pretending only works in certain working environment with a certain culture, theoretically.
- TheOtherHobbes 8y agoNot a new problem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stakhanovite_movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stakhanovite_movement
- thinkingemote 8y agoThis is mainly a US cultural phenomenon through the Protestant Work Ethic. Europe had more Catholicism but the immigrants to America were puritans. Anyhow the idea is that by working hard you are good. It's not something new it's in the very fabric of American society and culture. Work is good, lots of work is better.
- drugme 8y agoBecause they've internalized - quite unconsciously, it would seem - the dominating ideology of their time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism
- potatofarmer45 8y agoMy very first job was in finance on Wall St at a bulge bracket investment bank (read: big name fancy boohah bank). I did it not because I like finance and I thought working 100 hours a week on excel was fun, I did because I had no idea what I wanted in life and a job the most prestigious / best paying job at the time available to a graduating student was in finance. Most the people I started with (trading), didn't last more than 2 years. I burned out and quit the day I got my bonus after 1 year. But you see a pattern in all the people who stay. They don't love the work, they love the money and the prestige of the work. After a while, it becomes your identity and even though most bankers hate their jobs, they pretend to like it because there is nothing they can do elsewhere that offers them the same perks. I worked with a guy who complained to me every single night when we worked together almost 10 years ago. He said he was going to quit once he reached XYZ arbitrary milestone and go work at an NGO. Last time I checked, he is still there. Now he has a wife, kids, and a lifestyle that requires a lot of money so he can't leave. He also says now that he "loves" his job, but like in the article, he is fooling himself. It comes out after a few drams of scotch.
- GarrisonPrime 8y ago>But you see a pattern in all the people who stay. They don't love the work, they love the money and the prestige of the work. After a while, it becomes your identity... Sounds like what I saw in the medical field.
- alexandercrohde 8y agoMaybe I missed it, but where is the evidence that a majority of young people are pretending (or even claiming) to love work?
- intuitionist 8y agoThe editor who wrote the headline seems to have confused a corporate branding strategy with what the actual workers are saying. Seems kind of hard to reconcile the high support for socialism among American youth with the idea that they’re hustle cultists.
- hkon 8y agoIn my experience, the ones who shout the loudest about passion and motivational quotes have the least knowledge to get the work done. Sure they put in long hours, only to have their spaghetti code fail at the first attempt of running it. Sick and tired of it frankly, so I prefer to avoid those boys.
- riyadparvez 8y agoBeing an outsider, the thing that stand out most about North American culture is that it is extremely self-promotional. Granted, self-pormotion exists more or less is all cultures. But what makes it different here is self promotion is actively encouraged as a virtue. I think 'I love my work', along with many other behaviors, can be attribute to this self-promotional culture.
- iheartpotatoes 8y agoI question the author's conclusion of a truly subjective experience. It feels like fancy gatekeeping. The cross-references to social life are in interesting way to tease out meaning, but ultimately the dude is calling people "posers" with a richer vocabulary. I'm 53 and I still don't know if I have really "liked" my work/career in tech that started in the late 80's. I got off on my 80-hour weeks when I was in my 20's, but there was a direct result from my efforts (first silicon!). It's always been a challenge, and at some points broke me down (e.g., awful task, asshat manager), but I've always thought: "Welp, I gotta do something, might as well be something that pays well." I suspect the rest has been after-the-fact self-conditioning. But I'm almost done, and I look forward to retiring and doing more tech projects I never finished, so I guess I really did enjoy the career?
- infiniteseeker 8y agoIs HN owned or paid by the Nytimes? Seems a huge number of links to there over the last few months. At least couple or more every day
- redleggedfrog 8y agoThis is so perfect. Those poor kids got duped into thinking that somehow grinding their young life away will eventually get you somewhere. Hardly anyone gets into the NBA, or gets to be top drug dealer, or has their startup get bought for millions. But, well, someone needs to be the hopeful drones I guess.
- buboard 8y agowhat the hell are people doing working 130 hours? I kind of get it if your work involves sitting in an office thinking of how to unify gravity and quantum physics, but if a tech worker takes so much time to work he either doesn't know how to use the tools or is not good at it. > Participation in organized religion is falling, especially among American millennials. In San Francisco, where I live, I’ve noticed that the concept of productivity has taken on an almost spiritual dimension. This is probably closer to the truth. How many people make friends outside of work anymore? Esp. when people live in a big multicultural city with everyone moving every few years, work is the one place that actually feels like home.
- esoterica 8y ago> Today’s messages glorify personal profit, even if bosses and investors — not workers — are the ones capturing most of the gains. Wage growth has been essentially stagnant for years. Everyone loves quoting this statistic out of context. Median wages have been stagnant but compensation for the top 10% (and the top 1% especially) have increased substantially. All those poor exploited FAANG engineers fall at least into the top 10% by income (120k/year), and very large fraction of them into the top 1% too (~300k/year). It's amusing how techies love to complain about being victims of capitalist oppression when in reality they are, by a very, very large margin, massive beneficiaries of rising inequality, not its victims.
- akhilcacharya 8y agoI agree. IMO, we're seeing a pretty intense class stratification to go along with it, even between FAANG's.
- tathougies 8y agoBecause they don't have families, social ties with friends have been loosening for decades, and there really isn't anything else to live for. I can count many colleagues from the past few years for whom work is their main social group.
- draw_down 8y agoShovel shit and get paid, that’s all. Love is not part of the equation.
- renholder 8y agoRelevant John Lennon lyric[0]: "A working-class hero is something to be..." [0] - https://youtu.be/D77dbv-xNfE https://youtu.be/D77dbv-xNfE
- Eli_P 8y agoCheck out lyrics of this[0] glam rock song from 1986. Reflects this whole thread over and above. [0] https://youtu.be/nM_yNG2htsg?t=61 https://youtu.be/nM_yNG2htsg?t=61
- joduplessis 8y agoI think I'm getting tired of people villainizing a love for your work & industry. Within reason of course - but I think we're seeing a knee-jerk reaction to the hustle philosophy that has historically permeated the industry. Moderation never sits in the corner of the right or the left - you can still enjoy your field without working until 10pm every night. "It has exported its brand of performative workaholism to 27 countries..." Why polarise the issue even further with journalism that is so bias. And perhaps dig up some "pre-success DHH mantras" before extolling his anti-hustle rhetoric.
- LawnboyMax 8y ago> Perhaps we’ve all gotten a little hungry for meaning. Participation in organized religion is falling, especially among American millennials. In San Francisco, where I live, I’ve noticed that the concept of productivity has taken on an almost spiritual dimension. Techies here have internalized the idea — rooted in the Protestant work ethic — that work is not something you do to get what you want; the work itself is all. This feels true...
- sixo 8y agoBecause the idea of your job and your life being separate is ridiculous, an artifact of a first-generation middle-class that burgeoned in the second half of the 20th century and was largely just happy to have money and security. We - the young people now - want a lot more, and to some extent we're willing to close the gap between what-we-want-to-do and what-we-do-for-work from both sides so we're not living in a perpetual disharmony like our sad parents did.
- CM30 8y agoI've been wondering the exact same thing. Especially in regards to working hours and what not. Seriously, when did work go from '9-5' (or something similar) to 'let's do as much overtime as possible'? Too many young people seem to be treating work like a community/social club thing rather than a work for hire one, and forgetting that work is really a means to make money rather than the entire meaning of their existence. Maybe this also explains why hobbies seem to be on the way out in general. To a world where your passion 'has' to be your main job, the idea of doing anything for fun must be a dying trend.
- chrisseaton 8y ago> Maybe this also explains why hobbies seem to be on the way out in general. I don't understand where you're seeing this - I think people are becoming much more serious about hobbies these days. People don't just go jogging - they do ultramarathons. They don't just enjoy baking, they set up baking tutorial YouTube videos. They don't just watch movies, they write their own fan fiction and get it published. They don't just play with toys, they build Arduino robots. This is the age of the amateur professional in hobby areas.
- creddit 8y agoWhy is the NYT shaming people for loving their work?
- manmal 8y agoI think a part of the problem is caused by ubiquitious caffeine consumption. On caffeine, I'm driven, and want to code more, and start new projects, and meet people, and never stop thinking, and hustle towards the future. I also never stop to question whether my goals are worthwhile, or at least good for me. I just "love the chase" on caffeine. Off caffeine, I'm considerate, more withdrawn, and enjoy life as it is, being in the moment. Life is more "real". I take breaks, talk to family on the phone, cook myself a meal, smell the flowers. Our generation runs on coffee. 64% of people over 18 in the US drink at least a cup every day [1], with rising tendency. "Programmers are machines which turn coffee into code", and other similar memes aplenty. I believe that a side effect of taking in caffeine is to be driven and motivated during the day, and of weak willpower at night, leading to excessive social media usage. It makes the hustle itself a means to an end. 1: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-coffee-conference-survey/americans-are-drinking-a-daily-cup-of-coffee-at-the-highest-level-in-six-years-survey-idUSKCN1GT0KU https://www.reuters.com/article/us-coffee-conference-survey/...
- joe_the_user 8y agoI'm not so sure about caffeine in particular. But it seems like you have an ethos among some portion of 20-somethings of being so driven you can do work, go to school, and party freely. You have it all, except for sleep and that hits people hard after a while. But it seems like a mindset that caffeine, harder drugs, or just the attitude of one's peers may reinforce. I personally drink lots of coffee and get lots of sleep so I don't caffeine by itself does it. But the broad approach is here, very destructive and not restricted to coders at all (you can find it a lot in service workers for example).
- akhilcacharya 8y agoConsider me unconvinced. I don't know anybody like the people described in the article and nearly everyone I know is a big coffee consumer.
- leowoo91 8y agoBiggest mystery haven't been solved yet: why coffee makers are still complicated?
- chkaloon 8y agoThis writer sounds like a slacker.
- throwawaycanada 8y agoFear.
- golemiprague 8y agoI have found women "love" their work more than man because they do all kind of fluffy jobs that are not really necessary while the man are doing all the hard stuff just to earn a wage and in some more subconscious way to keep our world going. "Loving" your job is part of the feminisation of the workplace and academy, it used to be that people did what is necessary and important and it was fine, but women were taught that they deserve everything without putting any effort or pain into it so now it is about what you like and posturing.
- sevensor 8y agoIs it coincidental that two of the defining features of the Victorian era -- overwork and prudery -- are making a return at the same time? It's a strangely conservative turn for young urban people to take.
- defterGoose 8y agocitation needed
- vivekd 8y agoSome people are just conscientious, they love work and feel they have to be engaged in some work - whether it be meaningful work or pointless drudgery - for their life to be worthwhile. My mom is like that. I think the article is overly focused on these sorts of people. There are tons of people out there who are more relaxed and want to take it easy - in fact I would say that's the majority. Sure some companies and employers are highly conscientious and they seek out conscientious employees. It's sad because conscientious people are more readily taken advantage of by employers. But at the end of the day it's just a personality and I don't know how well we can apply the label to all millennials. My experience has been that early boomers are the most conscientious people, probably more so than any generation that came after them. I would argue that with millenials some of that hustle culture we're seeing is not necessarily a work nature, but more desperation. Here we have a generation coming of age into hard economic times. Many have high hopes but believe that their lives will be worse financially than that of their parents. It's natural that some of them would adopt a hustle mentality as a way to struggle against that.
- 011110111 8y ago“Because in the end, you won’t remember the time you spent working in the office or mowing your lawn. Climb that goddamn mountain.” — Jack Kerouac
- RickJWagner 8y agoIt's a big cycle. WW2 vets were the hard workers of the 50s, followed by the Flower-Power hippies of the 60s, followed by the Yuppies of the 80s, followed by the Slackers of the 90s.....
- eli_gottlieb 8y agoHonestly, at this point, I'm expecting that anyone participating in "hustle culture" is either self-consciously referencing Sorry to Bother You or just letting me know they are, in the immortal words of Douglas Adams, a bunch of mindless jerks who will be first against the wall when the revolution comes.
- muzani 8y agoThere's a book, Flow. It was written in 1990, meaning that the research doesn't even involve millennials, but rather the Boomers. It's not even research for productivity; the goal was to find when we are happiest. In it, it describes that most workers actually enjoy work. About 47% for blue collar up to 64% for white collar. Whereas during their leisure times, it's 20% for blue collar, down to 15% for white collar. However, the catch is that when at work, they describe that they would rather be doing something. There's a paradox that motivation is lowest when at work, even though they feel happy, strong, creative, satisfied. And that they look forward to periods like watching TV where they feel more weak, dull, and dissatisfied. The book doesn't have a solid theory as to why this is so. Maybe we have a cultural stereotype that we're supposed to hate work. Maybe we feel forced to do it against our will. Modern society seems to actually restrict flow. We're constantly interrupted by social media and messaging. We have open offices where everyone can interrupt one another. There's less situations where we can just sit down and lose ourselves in work. A blue collar worker can tune the world out while they cut grass and assemble cars, while the engineer has to deal with a barrage of emails and stand up meetings. So, it's quite possible that work now is less enjoyable than 30 years ago.
- 0db532a0 8y agoI decided to leave my last job with a month’s notice due to a few reasons, one of which was constant noise and interruption. I was in the process of finishing a project with no further input needed, and I wanted to leave behind something I was proud of. Given that I had no reputation to protect there, without asking anyone, I moved into a disused room, no windows, completely isolated from the rest of the office and spent my whole days cracking out code alone. I was never happier, and I’ve never got so much work done in an office in my life.
- mesozoic 8y agoFunny while they work themselves to death I'm just sitting here barely working by putting a little forethought, planning, and efficiency in the mix. Seems like the amount I work drops by 25% and my pay goes up by 25% a year.
- hnuser355 8y agoHaha, I agree. I always had arguments with my dad where he’d say you have to have a passion, etc. and I’d be like “Dude, I don’t care about that extra stuff. I just want money” Of course now I’ll play along since pretending to be passionate about office politics or JavaScript is part of making money. I work a lot more than the minimum but the part outside my work week is all very long term fundamental stuff I hope will help my career over the decades
- spaceflunky 8y agoI can't believe no one has said it, but I have a theory that says working hard and making yourself inaccessibly busy is a new status symbol. In a world where it's difficult to buy even the most modest of homes and unreasonable to buy a sports car if you have no home in which to put it, making yourself seem like you can't possibly get away from your desk because too many people need you is the nouveau status symbol.
- sudovancity 8y agoI enjoy software engineering for about 8 hours a day