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‘I’m Broke and Mostly Friendless, and I’ve Wasted My Whole Life’

• toomuchtodo 8y ago
  This is not meant to sound like an off the cuff comment, it is not, a lot of thought has gone into this: Remember this piece before you argue with someone that they should move away from their friends, family, their support systems for work or other development opportunities. It Takes A Village, and your local support system is not to be underestimated. In the end, all we have is family and/or loved ones ("chosen family"); everything else is fleeting. Spread your wings, but know where Home is (and remember Home is something to be cultivated, and not to be taken for granted).
  • jacquesm 8y ago
    Recently a family member died who did just that: asked her father to move from the city where he lived to go nearer to her so she could take better care of him. They debated this for a while, he relented, moved to bf nowhere. So far so good. Then, three months later she drops dead of lung cancer. It is very fortunate that I live nearby too, total coincidence, that branch of my family I have very little contact with. So now this 80+ year old guy that just lost his daughter, the only regular link to his past and provider of all his needs has to depend on me, the nephew he hasn't really seen in the last 35 years or so. No more circle of friends, no walks about town, just some crap flat for old people and a whole day to wait for night to come again. Card games once every week and the occasional game of Scrabble. And the rest of the time you are just alone with your thoughts of life the way it was. The good news is he definitely did not waste his life, but it is super hard on him and there isn't a visit that leaves me unmoved about how incredibly harsh life can be. Poor guy.
    • toomuchtodo 8y ago
      It is our purposes as humans (IMHO, YMMV) to make life less harsh for those around us. From one internet stranger to another, you are a good person Jacques. We're all just walking each other home.
      • PavlovsCat 8y ago
        > Being compassionate is an act of resistance; it is different from being caring, or passive. Compassion, literally meaning ‘to suffer with’, is rooted in our loving desire to be alongside one another in our common struggle for a better spiritual and social reality. Compassion is an act of resistance because the compassionate cannot rest until all suffering has ended. Compassion is the recognition that none of us are free until we are all free. -- Keith Hebden For me it's also a way to expand my own life beyond my own life. That is, to take joy in the wellbeing of others, even though I can't feel their wellbeing as they do, still multiplies the joy I can have in life immensely. Compassion can bring sadness, sure, but I think it's more than made up for by the satisfaction it can bring, too. You might say I try to not always be selfish for purely selfish reasons. In a rather free and bad translation, couldn't find it in English: > Humans keep themselves in a passable height above hellish depths towards which they gravitate only by using all their powers and helping each other lovingly. Among each other they are connected by strong ropes, and it's bad enough when the ropes around a person get loose and they sink a little lower than the rest into the empty void, and it's horrible when the ropes around a person break and they fall. This is why one should stick with others. I suspect that girls keep us up high because they are so light, that is why we should love the girls and they should love us. -- Franz Kafka in a letter to Oskar Pollak, 20th December 1903 It's from 1903, so I hope it's possible to enjoy the wisdom and cuteness without getting up on the last sentence :) Also "stick with others" is particularly badly translated and sounds weird, but keep the "lovingly help each other" bit in mind, don't hold my translation against Kafka.
        • deleted 8y ago
          [deleted]
  • deadmetheny 8y ago
    This is all completely true. I feel like modern living has pitched this whole idea that it's worth putting yourself into debt to "have experiences, not things" (I have my doubts that this is a true Millennial preference and rather just a bit of clever marketing that has worked exceptionally well) and to avoid investing too much in anything lest something better come along. It's the same reason I look down upon tech people's effects on housing markets in SV pushing old-time residents out because they can't afford the rent, and look down upon people who scoff at moving to flyover land where they can afford to put down roots. This woman bought into a train of thought that's not really being developed for her benefit.
  • castlecrasher2 8y ago
    >Remember this piece before you argue with someone that they should move away from their friends, family, their support systems for work or other development opportunities. Blood is certainly thicker than water as they say, for good and for evil. I used to think exactly as you stated the above and I don't mean to suggest how rigid you are but my recent experience with family is that relationships must go both ways, and when your attempts at expressing yourself go unheard or ignored then perhaps cutting ties is the right approach.
    • toomuchtodo 8y ago
      > I used to think exactly as you stated the above and I don't mean to suggest how rigid you are but my recent experience with family is that relationships must go both ways, and when your attempts at expressing yourself go unheard or ignored then perhaps cutting ties is the right approach. I would encourage you to use this as a growth opportunity. I had a similar situation occur with a close family member who died unexpectedly, and years later, my heart still hurts every day because of it. Take care of your self, but grow emotionally to put yourself out there when you can. I won't discount that cutting ties is appropriate under certain circumstances. For myself, it is a last resort. People are people, fallible to their core.
      • castlecrasher2 8y ago
        I appreciate your reply, but starting a message with advice instead of understanding leaves me wondering if you're more interested in being an advice dispenser than understanding where I'm coming from and then giving advice. Forgive my reaction, my family is adept at that very thing: pretending to listen then dispensing the advice they think will fix you and your problems; I've now realized that empathy means simply listening actively, and generally the complainer will come to the correct conclusion on their own, they just need a willful listening ear. At least, I've never been genuinely convinced I was in the wrong unless someone first recognized my pains then gave advice or I noticed someone else's example. My entire life has constituted shame-based discipline, and not even the direct "you're stupid for doing x thing" but "she's your mother, she brought you into this world." Like, yeah, but that doesn't help me not be upset, and I may have even agreed at the time but the point is my emotions are high and ignoring my feelings leaves me subconsciously believing that my emotional being is wrong or unimportant. tl;dr I'm a big boy, I can get over it but understand me before giving advice
• ghostbrainalpha 8y ago
  Sometimes you can get distracted (for years) and cut yourself off from the world. This can be because of adventure Travel, creating a business, or focusing all your energy on one person and then having that relationship fall apart. I moved cities to be better positioned for my Startup. Ignored all friends and family for 4 years, and ultimately the company failed and I felt very similar to this woman. The prison system is developing "re-emergence" programs to help inmates reintegrate with the world after being isolated for 20 years. If they can come back to happy lives, anyone can. But I think there should be more books/classes and programs focused on integrating back with your own life after a period of isolation.
  • jchanimal 8y ago
    Make a list of people, when someone crosses your mind, add to it, maybe with a note. When you have free time send people thoughtful messages.
    • fetus8 8y ago
      I've been doing something similar recently, and it feels really good tbh. Instead of adding to the note/list, I just reach out right then and there and send them a message/email. It's worked wonderfully to reconnect with family and friends.
• circlefavshape 8y ago
  When I was in college there was an older woman doing my course who was a little like this - had lived all over the world, and had had the kind of wild life that I envied. I learned from her that memories of good times don't make you happy - quite the opposite, in fact, if your present is a let-down.
  • duxup 8y ago
    A few folks I knew like that were effectively running from something(s) hoping to find something.
    • smacktoward 8y ago
      My therapist put it thusly: "You can't run away from problems you carry with you in your head."
  • hkmurakami 8y ago
    As a wise older friend puts it, neither the past nor the future is real. Only the present is real.
    • keiferski 8y ago
      Death is not an event in life: we do not live to experience death. If we take eternity to mean not infinite temporal duration but timelessness, then eternal life belongs to those who live in the present. Our life has no end in the way in which our visual field has no limits. - Ludwig Wittgenstein
      • Myrmornis 8y ago
        I feel like what he's saying is similar to the way that the open interval between 0 and 1 has no end when viewed as an open set in real analysis. Which is nice, but the only time I felt that I could advance time by infinitesimally small increments I was on mushrooms.
• ohiovr 8y ago
  The holidays are an emotional meat grinder. Its the hap hap happiest time of the year alright. This time of year is the lowest for most people but it is demanded of us to hide our desperation. Unfortunately it also distorts are situation. The situation really is better than we think it is. A lot of us get irrational this time of year. It will be better in the spring when the holiday hysteria is long gone.
  • MrBuddyCasino 8y ago
    There are more suicides in spring than during holidays. Spring wants you to be happy, the contrast is too harsh. Winter depression is normal.
    • ohiovr 8y ago
      Looks like you are right. I read a little that said january 24 is the most depressing day of the year and April is the worst month for suicides.
• andyjohnson0 8y ago
  I honestly wondered if this was some kind of satire. I have great sympathy for the person asking for advice, and I suspect they may have been hoping for something a bit more actionable. Also, the advice columnist mentioning their new book and book tour in the reply seems a bit tone-deaf to me. I hope that she finds a way to start making the changes she wants to see in her life.
  • cableshaft 8y ago
    I agree. Feels like the only reason she decided to respond to this person is to use it as an excuse to shill her new book to her readers and not out of genuine care for the other person. "Hi Dan, thanks for calling the Suicide Helpline! I know what you're going through is tough. I went through what you're going through too, which I wrote all about in my new book, Suicide Kings, available on Amazon, buy now and get it 20% off the hardcover price for a limited time only! Here's an affiliate link, and an interview I did with the Today show. So yeah, I've been feeling down in the dumps lately too, and you know what I did? I wrote Suicide Kings, only $19.99 in two easy payments if you call 555-555-1513. That's 555-555-1513. Don't kill yourself Dan. I didn't. Write a book instead."
    • danso 8y ago
      Reiterating something I wrote in another comment: the columnist's response is more than 2,300 words long. The mention of her book is 600 words in, is limited to a single sentence with no mention of what it's even about. And it is in the context of how the columnist fights feelings of inadequacy even during the ostensible high point of her career.
• nostromo 8y ago
  I think the parents of many 20 and 30-somethings played a role in so many young(ish) adults failing to launch. American parents could learn a thing or two about parenting from previous generations and from a lot of immigrant families: nobody owes you anything, plan for a rainy day, find a partner you love and commit to them, work hard, cherish friends and family even when it's difficult, etc. I think parenting has over-corrected from the overly didactic and stern parenting of previous generations to endless "follow your bliss" and "you can do anything" -- which is causing a lot of young people to spin their wheels for decades at a time, never growing up while their body is growing old. It's a shame to see.
  • citilife 8y ago
    > decades at a time I think we're seeing the result of the baby boomer generation, essentially. They rejected the old, as you put it -- stern way of parenting. I'd argue, perhaps it wasn't so much stern as it was the structured. There was structure, expectations, and responsibilities. Things previous generates required to live. Since then, we've grown increasingly accustomed to insane amounts of wealth (or perhaps debt?). This enabled us to lax our expectations, because you didn't need to be super disciplined to make the wealth. The fact that we rebuffed the social norms has it's good and bad, unfortunately it does appear that we took it too far -- at least from a "you can do anything perspective". Yes, you can do anything, but you have to work to get there. It appears a lot of people forget that last part and feel entitled to their wealth / place in society.
    • api 8y ago
      Social trends almost always overcorrect. I wouldn't be surprised if we overcorrect the other way in future generations, then back again, etc. People seem to have trouble with the idea that the optimum is not at an extreme.
      • jmoss20 8y ago
        > "... the idea that the optimum is not an extreme." I'd put this as "not an extreme" /on any of the axes that we're considering/. Life has an awful lot of dimensions -- if you imagine a very high-dimensional hypercube and draw the optima randomly, the optima are almost guaranteed to be close to some surface (some "extreme"). To my eye, the real problem is finding the correct perspective -- the one at which an optimum lies at an extreme.
• simonsarris 8y ago
  "We should be more honest about the real tradeoffs between endless wanderlust/adventure-seeking and putting down real roots. The things that make for a great instagram feed or Bumble profile are very different from those of permanence that help us live well." (Friend's comment on article) Polly's reply is so shameless (including promoting her own book in the reply) that it's incredible just how badly it missed the point. > If you want to build a life with a partner, and have a more satisfying career, and maybe have children, you need to treat yourself like a treasured child starting today. If you had a daughter who was 35 years old and felt like all of her traveling and moving was a giant mistake that embodied everything BAD and shortsighted about her, what would you tell her? You’d tell her she was wrong. You’d say, “Your life is just beginning!” This doesn't help the author and it doesn't help onlookers, either. There is a time window on opportunity. There are serious tradeoffs that need to be pondered when you reach adulthood, and almost none of them are helped with a "you deserve it!" attitude. And there are some things, like travel and careerism, that will not outlive you, like your children will.
  • Tade0 8y ago
    Frankly I stopped reading the moment the book was mentioned. It feels off and insincere.
    • kempbellt 8y ago
      I would think the same thing, if the book wasn't relevant to the topic being discussed. Providing a sincere response, and self-promoting are not mutually exclusive. It's more like "Hey! I wrote a book on this exact issue. I really hope it helps"
      • barberousse 8y ago
        > It's more like "Hey! I wrote a book on this exact issue. I really hope it helps" Except that's your notion and not what Polly was doing with their book mention in the article. There it served as a way to kinda say, "Hey, I also share some insecurity issues with you, caused this by book I'm touring on right now, and oh, here's the link to it". There was no other nudging of Haunted to read the book.
• aaaaaaaaaab 8y ago
  Sounds like she fell between two stools: neither a fulfilling career, nor a family. I guess this is what you would call the modern American dream.
  • pojzon 8y ago
    This is what you call "a woman who does not understand how SMV and MMV works like" People dont like those definitions but they are so true it hurts.
    • dang 8y ago
      Please don't do this here.
• mooseburger 8y ago
  /pol/ is always right, eh? No, seriously, this woman is probably real, but her life story reads like a 4chan meme.
  • magic_beans 8y ago
    How can you have so little compassion? You've never in your life felt regret or loneliness?
    • wufufufu 8y ago
      The top level comment didn't say anything bad? The person who wrote the article even mentioned they fit a cliche. All the comment did was point out that it's a cliche on the internet.
    • seatdrummer 8y ago
      its entirely possible that certain beliefs common on 4chan strike true. This isn't so much about making her struggle a meme, but acknowledging that youth is fleeting and its particularly hard for women. Coming to terms with this reality for a woman is even more terrifying than a man because her bodily clock is ticking and pretty soon she will have little opportunity to have a child and dare I say, attract her ideal man. Its a call for more traditional values, to acknowledging that the deal is different for men and women, and its a criticism of responses like this which tell women to embrace being a free spirit when all she wants is stability and steady growth. Traditional values are truly counter culture in the west, and thats why pol will emphasize it. EDIT: 4chan also likes it because it serves their tendency toward genetic determinism.
  • fein 8y ago
    This was the very first thing I thought, about when the "and my cat" line hit. It's a winning game of cat lady career woman bingo in a single article. The memes are offensive because they're true.
  • jdhn 8y ago
    I believe that the phrase "a stopped clock is right twice a day" is very applicable right now.
• projectramo 8y ago
  This reminds me of The Buried Giant by Kazuo Ishiguro. It opens with an old couple who live in a land misted by a fog of forgetfulness. And one of them remembers they have a son they love very much. They haven't seen him in many years, because they had forgotten and they have to get back to him. And they set out to do so. That feeling of, oh this is an important thing, person, event, skill, and why have I forgotten about it? Why didn't I attend to it? That is just part of the human condition as you get older. I don't think your life is "wasted". Just accept that regret is part of all lives. Even the person who is happy, has thoughts and ideas about alternatives. Not that you would trade what you have, but you do play out alternative lives. Its perfectly natural.
  • cmpaul 8y ago
    > Just accept that regret is part of all lives. So true, and so hard to do.
• keiferski 8y ago
  I’ve always thought life is a balancing act of “building” and “experiencing.” Building relationships, communities, homes, organizations, education (your self) and experiencing other countries, different jobs, lifestyles, foods, etc. Western culture as a whole has gone a little too far in the “experience” direction. You can see this in little ways, like the fact that Legos are sold as pre-planned structures and not generic building blocks, or how electronics today are replaced and not repaired. We really need a revitalization of a “creator” culture to combat the present consumer one.
  • claudiulodro 8y ago
    > Legos are sold as pre-planned structures and not generic building blocks I don't know if this is an "experience economy" thing as much as it is a lucrative licensing deal thing.
    • keiferski 8y ago
      I’d argue that the appeal of the licensed Lego products is precisely an experience. Instead of starting from zero and building everything yourself, you’re given a premade story, world, and characters. It’s similar to the difference between writing your own fantasy novel vs. reading Lord of the Rings.
      • claudiulodro 8y ago
        That makes a lot of sense. I hadn't thought about it this way. Thanks. I'm sure the lucrative licensing deals help though. :)
  • PavlovsCat 8y ago
    > We really need a revitalization of a “creator” culture to combat the present consumer one. Yes! I agree so much. As Hannah Arendt wrote in "The Human Condition": > The ideals of homo faber, the fabricator of the world, which are permanence, stability, and durability, have been sacrificed to abundance, the ideal of the animal laborans. If we changed to that, we can change from that.
• 40acres 8y ago
  Everyone around us is fighting their own little war. I've felt similarly to the writer -- I moved out of my childhood home the day after graduating college and started work that Monday. I only moved 215 miles (NYC to Boston), but it felt a world away, especially considering most Americans live relatively close to where they grew up and 215 miles in Europe goes a long way. I've made and abandoned friends at almost every stage in my life. I have no idea who will be the best man at my wedding because to be honest my brother probably isn't up to the "responsibilities", but I have no alternative. I now live on the west cost, a tough 6 hour flight away from home. I visited my family this Thanksgiving and am noticing so many changes, people are dying, babies are being born, my cousins who I've always viewed as children are about to graduate college. It's tough being away from home and not feeling like I have roots (I'm considering a move to Seattle or the Bay Area in early 2019), but at every step I've justified my actions because the next step always came with a significant pay increase and more career opportunities. This January will be my 13th anniversary with my high school girlfriend (soon to be fiance). I can't describe how valuable it's been to have someone so close in age (I'm 3 months older) that can relate to the things that I'm going through, and who has my back, and knows that I have hers. Things haven't been easy, but it's become so much more than a girlfriend/boyfriend relationship, which is why marriage is in our future. I've met so many fellow millennials who are serial monogamist or date freely, I don't judge them at all and at some times have felt a tinge on envy, and these folks may have a friend or family member who is to them what my girlfriend is to me -- I guess all this is to say that in today's society I just don't know how we can traverse this reality with at least one person who you are tightly integrated with. It's just too tough out there.
  • toomuchtodo 8y ago
    I'm happy to be your best man when the time comes. Email in my profile.
    • bitcoinmoney 8y ago
      Me too. But I don’t know how to give funny speeches in the wedding. This resonates with me because I moved from Philippines to USA to pursue my graduate degree. Friends get lost along the way and it’s a big effort to reconnect due to time zone issues. Now married to my wife ( gf of 10 years) and have kids. It’s a difficult but fruitful journey.
• peterburkimsher 8y ago
  I'm a 29 year TCK who has moved around a lot because I don't actually have a place to call "home". I planned my life around trying to get Permanent Resident status in New Zealand, but now I'm struggling to find a job. My latest idea is to study a certification. Has anybody done this before, and does it work? Will that help me start a career? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18562295 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18562295
  • cylinder 8y ago
    what was your motivation for choosing NZ? I think NZ could be a very lonely place for a newcomer without an ethnic immigrant community. Your best bet is picking up a trade. You'll not find a large enough white collar economy in NZ.
    • peterburkimsher 8y ago
      Ok, which trade? Is it possible to get a student visa to study that trade? I figured out how to find certifications that are in demand; is there a similar way to find trades that are in demand?
      • cylinder 8y ago
        Lots of trades in demand in Australia. Not sure about NZ. You can get PR simply by being a bricklayer or panel beater. Not sure if you can without any experience though. Consult a migration agent or lawyer if serious However if you're a software engineer or IT just do that
  • wlll 8y ago
    TCK? > My latest idea is to study a certification. Has anybody done this before, and does it work? Will that help me start a career? Maybe? I suspect it depends partly on where (the company) you want to work, partly why you haven't been able to find a job yet, and partly where you do (or want to) live. 1. The sort of company you want to work for Some places want certifications, degrees, etc. so if you identify those places as somewhere you want to work, and they need certifications to apply, or to improve your chances, then you need the certifications. The places I have worked, and know about (hosting, SAAS, all UNIX based), are mostly interested in what they can get out of you. What you can do for them. As a result even though I have no certifications, I've managed to do well. I did have to start out pretty low on the ladder, Tech Support for a couple of years, but with hard work and motivation I now work from home as a successful contractor/consultant. It should be noted that I've got the jobs I have ahead of people who have certifications or degrees, mostly because I have convinced the people I interviewed with that have something to give. Where you want to work I believe will be an important deciding factor in wether certification will be helpful. 2. Why you haven't been able to find a job yet If you haven't been able to get a job yet but the reason is something other than certifications then it's questionable how much benefit certifications will help. Try to work out why you didn't get a job or where you failed. Ask the company why you applied to, they might ignore you, they might help. Are you shy? Do you undersell yourself? Do you present badly in person (disheveled, or strong smell for example)? Do you come across as a mis-understood, hard done by and unfairly shunned by the world? (the answer to that last one is yes, subjectively, from my reading of your medium post[0]. People complaining about how hard done by doesn't look good. I've seen skilled people fall at the last hurdle, job in the bag except for the final in-person meeting, only to blow it by being a miserable fucker.[1] 3. where you do (or want to) live I know someone who has a tech job in NZ, it doesn't pay well. NZ is pretty small, are there enough jobs? Are your expectations and/or demands too high? I started out in London, but now work remotely further North. If I were starting out from scratch it would be much harder to get where I am today by being in a much more regional place. It's harder to climb the ladder if there's no ladder around. Some closing thoughts. You got a paid internship that seemed to get extended, can you get a job with that company? If not, why not? Can you get another job locally? At least that way any company you apply for will know that you're at least employable. Social Proof. You need to prove yourself. I've met great programmers without a degree (or an unrelated degree in photography) and some terrible programmers with relevant academic backgrounds, having a job and being good at it might actually help persuade people that you're any good. It might also be that you just can't go to NZ. It sucks. I want to sail around on a yacht and live in the Mediteranean instead of the UK, but kids, a wife, elderly parents etc. make that dream constantly a bit too far away to grasp. You might need to scale your pland and dreams back, or at least move them around a bit. Good luck. [0] That piece came across as a priviledged muddled whinge to me and if it were me I'd delete it, or at least rework it into something with observations and then a constructive conclusion. I doubt that campaigning for universities to run courses will help, it doesn't matter if companies want CCNA or whatever, if students don't want to study them universities won't offer them. [1] If you're not good in person, practice. Go out to user groups, learn to talk to people, and listen.
• ryanmercer 8y ago
  (Edit: see, the internet alone is part of what is wrong with the world. I share that I feel completely alone and miserable and what does the internet do? Downvote. Did you bother to comment negatively or just provide some sort of reason as to why you don't like my comment? Nah, 'here have a downvote' because you're safe and comfortable in your anonymity where you can freely show someone you don't like them because they have a different experience or opinion than you and have decide their worth is less than yours) I'm broke, friendless and have nothing remotely resembling a meaningful life. I however have not moved all over the place, I live 15 minutes from my childhood home and spend 90% of my life living in the same 3 blocks. As far as family I barely have any left. My mother and my half-brother. The bulk of my social interaction is via emails with one individual. On the occasions they reply, they're very terse due to how busy the individual is. I've met them once, for all of maybe 25 minutes. Other than that I mostly just talk to bun, a purple stuffed anthropomorphic rabbit I've had all but a few weeks of my life. As a child I was only invited to a few birthday partings or outings, as an adult I occasionally get asked why I wasn't at so and so's event 'well, I didn't even know about it...' and I was invited to a wedding of someone I went to school with from kindergarten on a couple of years ago, I was even sat at the head table with her father, with the exception of her insisting on a dance with me not a single person talked to me with the exception of the bartender taking my order. At one point I simple gave up and stood quite literally outside looking in, literally in the shadows outside of the barn the reception was at until the bartender cut me off and my contacts were gone through to find someone to collect me and my car. The few seemingly like-minded people I've found are famous multi-millionaires and billionaires that live thousands of miles from me that I have effectively zero chance of ever interacting with. Put a gun to my head and I wouldn't be able to begin to tell you how one makes a friend because the only person that believes in any amount is essentially a stranger that I've met once and likely may never meet again. I don't even know how to talk to people. I'm 33 and I've never actually had anything approximating a proper romantic relationship. I've never had a best friend that I do things with. I've never been part of a group carrying on and having experiences. I've never had to deal with a breakup, or co-habitated, or fought with a romantic partner. I've never had anyone phone me just to see how I was doing. I get a birthday card from corporate and sometimes from my mother when she remembers and that's the extent of my birthday being acknowledged. The last person I got close to romantically, shot and killed themselves after we'd had 3 proper dates. At 33 I have a GED and no college degree, I've filed bankruptcy, I've been in the same job for 12 and a half years. I'm one mild financial emergency away from being fucked. I might as well just be a robot although, if I was a robot I'd probably have more human interaction purely from curiosity in me. If things don't change professionally, in very drastic ways, I'll work until the day I die. I'm lucking if I can put 2-3 grand into my 401k each year. While the woman writing to this columnist says she hasn't even the energy to contemplate humanity... that's about all I have going for me. I sit back and think about the nearly 40 gigatons of carbon dioxide we will put into the atmosphere this year, the microplastics in the air we breathe and the water we drink, the myopic and manipulated views of the world technology is giving to the masses, the growing wealth divide. I suppose I have more in common with a hypothetical artificial general intelligence though as I lack most of the experiences humans share in common. She's 35 and had a cancer scare. My father died of cancer 12 days before my 13th birthday, his mother died before him of cancer, my mother had thyroid cancer which is in remission. Cancer is a highly probable death for me too ma'am. Oh the drink, I know the drink well. At one point I was drinking as much as a fifth a night just to chase that fleeting escape from reality where everything amuses you. It's a trap ma'am, run from the drink, forsake the drink, the drink is a lie. She may be a ghost but she isn't alone and to be honest her life experiences sound like quite the upgrade to mine. Sure, there's people out there with it far worse than us. Simply having electricity and being able to read makes us far better off than many millions. Knowing that doesn't make life any less empty and cold and lonely though.
• Kiro 8y ago
  I sometimes feel like I've won the lottery. The win being absolute absence of urges to travel, make memories or relationships. I just want to be alone and work on my stuff, which also happens to make me financially independent. I'm old enough to know it's not just a phase. It's just who I am.
  • everyone 8y ago
    Same, its great :)
• gregorymichael 8y ago
  She can write well though.
  • savanaly 8y ago
    I was going to say this. She mentions her own art and how it has lapsed, but the letter she penned is full of promise when it comes to the art of writing.
  • rootbear 8y ago
    Agreed. The line that got me was "[I] don’t understand how I landed this far away from myself." Boy did that resonate with me...
• ilamont 8y ago
  She's in her mid-30s. It's hard when you are at such a point of despair, but it's not too late to start a career, family, meaningful social activities, etc. Making progress on any of these fronts may seem slow, but it can pretty remarkable how it all adds up when you look back 5 or 10 years later.
• fencepost 8y ago
  I'm astonished that the columnist didn't advise something that seems blindingly obvious to me: find a therapist to talk to - not someone who's going to automatically say "have some Prozac" but someone outside yourself to talk with about these issues. That letter just screams depression (or maybe bipolar on a downswing), but some of it may be just needing to figure out where and what you want to be.
  • gtowey 8y ago
    I came here to say the same thing. I actually feel kind of angry that the columnist failed to offer the only valid advice here.
  • wool_gather 8y ago
    +1, and just to add some more perspective, "depression" comes in varying grades. It doesn't always mean locked in your bedroom for days on end with the shades drawn. Sometimes a person gets caught up in a sort of miasma of low-grade self-doubt and anxiety. Still able to go to work, do the shopping, etc., but lacking energy for things like maintaining friends, and ambition. It can be insidious, and without outside perspective -- either yourself years later, or someone who knows what they're looking at -- really hard to recognize (and fight).
  • ryanmercer 8y ago
    > That letter just screams depression (or maybe bipolar on a downswing), Um no. It sounds like someone with no people to spend time with, that's living paycheck to paycheck, that is one financial emergency from financial ruin. That doesn't automatically equate depression. When you're worrying if somethings going to happen tomorrow that leaves you penniless that other people around you wouldn't even notice the cost of, and you don't have another human as an outlet and for reassurance, you get frustrated and angry and cold and distant and apathetic all at once. You have to or you go nuts. I don't see her as depressed at all, and unless you are licensed to practice mental health you haven't any business armchair diagnosing someone. See my parent comment in this thread, I'm not depressed. I've got a few hundred dollars to my name, a ged, no degree, have been rejected by multiple companies this year, will most likely contract and die of cancer before I die of old age, don't have anyone I can call to hang out with, don't have anyone to call if I have an emergency and need help, don't have anyone to ring me up and ask how my life is going without wanting something. I'm not depressed, I'm fucking tired. I imagine she's not depressed either, just tired. Worn out. In need of something to go in her favor for a change. It's perfectly normal to feel despair and frustration with your life, that doesn't automatically make you depressed. Try walking in her shoes, or my shoes, are millions of other shoes. We get out of bed in the morning and ranger the fuck up because we have to to survive. Just because we aren't excited to run off to our shitty jobs and come home to our empty lonely lives doesn't make us depressed, it makes us disadvantaged.
• throw12900 8y ago
  I should probably add some context. This article was linked several times in "manosphere", including a few response videos. This woman is fine, healthy, relatively young. Men face the very same "invisibility problem" their whole lives.
  • neilk 8y ago
    Ha, I figured that. It rocketed to the front page without any relation to HN's usual topics. And it looked like something that the manosphere/traditionalist/right-wing-droning-youtubers would see as a vindication of their ideas. e.g. https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/974377252212346880 https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/974377252212346880 It is a little strange to have to take one person's letter to an advice columnist and use it as grist for which gender has it worse, but, that's their obsession I guess.
  • danso 8y ago
    Even if we agree for the sake of argument that today, men and women have reached parity when it comes to career opportunity, that doesn't instantaneously undo the decades/centuries of traditional notion that a woman is not complete without marriage and motherhood. Men face the same pressure, but nowhere near the magnitude, nor the inherent limitations.
• wufufufu 8y ago
  At least this person can communicate and can open themselves up emotionally. But it sounds like this person would have mental health issues no matter what their current situation was. A partner or job isn't going to fix that. Anxiety is living in the future. Depression is living in the past. Wanting a good experience is a bad experience. Accepting a bad experience is a good experience.
  • MrBuddyCasino 8y ago
    Thats actually a very good summary. I found Vipassana mindfulness meditation helps immensely to achieve happiness by detaching the self from outside influences that would otherwise make me unhappy.
• ThrustVectoring 8y ago
  I could give better advice in a single sentence. To wit, "you should schedule an appointment with a psychiatrist to get screened for adult ADHD." These life problems are classic adult ADHD symptoms. Moving cities every few years. Not being able to hold down a long-term relationship. Your "who-knows-what-number" job. Debt from poor and impulsive decisions. Lack of internal drive. Difficulty making and keeping friends. "Can barely remember to buy dish soap". Enough difficulty with making deadlines that her boss is reminding her of them.
  • matt4077 8y ago
    Depression or bipolar disorder seem like a better fit. ADHD would manifest more in “short term” issues, i. e. difficulty getting through a workday. The fact that they can, apparently, hold down a job they don’t enjoy, and seem to quit voluntarily to improve their situation (going for an opportunity more than getting away from s/t) also don’t fit. In the end, the point might be mood because the first step is the same, and a therapist will be far better figuring it out in person. The specific labels also seem not to perfectly fit the actual conditions, which are more fluid than what the existing lingo suggests.
  • digianarchist 8y ago
    What's the solution to that? Ritalin?
    • ThrustVectoring 8y ago
      Yeah, stimulant therapy works extraordinarily well for ADHD. Like, it's basically the best psychiatric intervention known. It doesn't work for everyone, but it's the first line treatment for a reason.
      • Pulcinella 8y ago
        Yeah ADHD is one of the, if not the, most treatable psychiatric conditions.
    • leadingthenet 8y ago
• btbuildem 8y ago
  Useful of her to mention shame -- it's insidious, and often a quiet and debilitating background.
• miguelmota 8y ago
  Disappointing read. The author was simply ranting and blaming it on their breakups
• EGreg 8y ago
  I would recommend two things to this woman: 1) declare bankruptcy to get rid of your debts and start over 2) join a religious community, those folks commit much faster!
  • creep 8y ago
    I've been thinking of going to church lately. I wouldn't call myself a believer necessarily, but I do believe in such things as many people now have dismissed due to utter faith in science. So, I'm not "Christian", but I think the bible is an important book and contains wisdom. If you haven't read Ecclesiastes, I suggest you do. It was written by some old, powerful man (no one really knows who), basically reflecting on his life and imparting wisdom. It's the kind of old testament book that has inspired great leaders for centuries. Anyways, the idea of a church community really comforts me. I would be open with my own beliefs, and the reason why I'm attending church, and hope to build long-term relationships with those people. I also want to do some good outside of my academic work. When or if I have children, I would want them to attend church with me, with the understanding that they don't have to believe in God in order to gain something very valuable. I want them to grow up in a tangible, physical community of people who have their best interests in mind. Now that "inclusive" churches are more popular, I think I am going to find one.
    • dragonwriter 8y ago
      > If you haven't read Ecclesiastes, I suggest you do. It was written by some old, powerful man (no one really knows who), basically reflecting on his life and imparting wisdom. No one knows that it was written by an old, powerful man, either. The tradition is that it was written by King Solomon and contains his parables, and that the framing device of a third-person narrator reflecting on someone else's parable is a rhetorical device, but there are certainly interpretations that, whoever the subject is, the (primary, there are some parts that are generally accepted to come from a different author than the main body) author is (as the framing suggests) a third person narrator, relating wisdom sayings that came from, or at least are attributed to, another source.
  • kennxfl 8y ago
• hartator 8y ago
  I don’t think the message “35-year old is still very young” is useful. Life is really hard and is contant suffering. You might die at 95 year-old, but you might die tomorrow. Taking responsibilities instead of blaming the world is often the only way to go.
  • ben_jones 8y ago
    I think taking responsibility is important but it is also easy to take too much responsibility, be it at work, in the personal lives and choices of others, or in you own success - ultimately leading to anxiety and depression. A concrete example that I think will echo here is the impostor syndrome many engineers face. We know it is technically possible to sit down and grind huge amounts of value in software in a relatively short period, and we believe it so strongly that we feel crushed if we don't do it each and every day.
  • ashildr 8y ago
    35 years is still very young in the sense that you can still begin a new career.
• vinceguidry 8y ago
  > And with men I date, I feel pressure to make something of the relationship too soon (move in, get married, “I have to have kids in a couple of years”; fun times!). I think most, if not all problems people have that aren't resource-driven (not making enough money to live) boil down to lack of ability to enjoy the present moment. And maybe even the resource-driven ones as well. If people could just learn how to relax, appreciate what you do have, realize it could be a lot worse, smell the roses, then they could get centered and plan for the future more effectively. But instead many people just get caught in these catch-22s where they're depressed over not being where they want to be. But there's always somewhere you're going to want to be, you're never going to be 100% perfectly content with everything. Discontent isn't the worst thing in the world, but people let it sabotage their well-being and mental health. So sad.
  • bitcoinmoney 8y ago
    True that. I read an article last week about the rohingya genocide currently in Myanmar. The article centered about a guy who suffered throughout his life. Basically going back and forth because he has no citizenship. From childhood to fatherhood. His only hope was his intelligent daughter and she was just raped and killed by the soldiers... and I get stressed because I don’t get enough s. Talk about perspective. Being in A first world country I’m already living like a king compared to 90% of the world.
  • earthwrldshaman 8y ago
    Agree, all of these thoughts of hypothetical's that instantiate people's continuous internal dialogue take away, especially, from the beauty and mystery of connection with another person. Everyone has this 'agenda'(whether conscious or not) that, as some sort of psychic mold, must fit and restrict the reality of the present moment.
• deleted 8y ago
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• squozzer 8y ago
  Expectations. I think Haunted believed it would be easy to have it all. >But your concept of yourself makes no sense. You got it from a rom-com. Bingo. Everything is a trade-off. On top of that, our best-laid schemes often go wrong. Sometimes years or decades of sacrifice to a career, relationship, or family makes one worse off, not better. I don't know if a perfect system exists for living one's life but here's a nugget or two - 1) Love is a choice, not an emotional state (learned by watching my Dad.) 2) Reassess often. 3) Don't fear changing things, including yourself. 4) Most people will die having achieved little that others would consider worthy of praise. That includes the others. 5) Having lived at all is something 99.99999999+% (by mass) of the Universe will never experience. Though maybe I'm wrong here - stars, nebulae, and galaxies may actually be alive for all we know.
• jl6 8y ago
  I think the actionable part of the advice is the idea of externalizing an emotion and treating it as an object to hold up and examine. Something that is outside of yourself and subject to analysis. To treat a feeling as being something you have, not something you are. This is a skill and it takes conscious effort to acquire it.
• 8bitsrule 8y ago
  In recent years, biographies of 'famous people' are much less 'cleaned-up' and idealized than they once were. As I've read more of them, it's clearer that the inner lives of people who 'got up on the stage' are pretty much like those of all the rest of us 'down here in the audience'. And so they are more instructive than the PR bios. This 'haunted' lady was once young and footloose and fancy-free and in pursuit of her dreams. And so were we all. But, once off whatever stage we occupy during the day, we all need to go home. There's where we have to face the same questions ... or distract or anaesthetize ourselves so that we don't. Nobody has all the answers. Today I like this Kenneth Patchen answer I found yesterday. "The meaning is in the wonder."
  • creaghpatr 8y ago
    Autobiographies in particular, I believe, tend to euhpamize or otherwise distort emotional conflicts, especially those that happen early in the author's life (when their recognition comes later on). I think emotional conflicts are one of the most influential parts of maturing and many autobiographies seem to gloss over their teens/early 20s or look back with a nostalgic lens, unless something extremely traumatic happened during that period.
• eludwig 8y ago
  Wow, so much HN hate for Polly? It's my opinion that Polly is a national treasure. Her shameless wit and sense of humor make me smile. Her profound love of humanity makes me deeply happy. Not only that, but her writing is so poetic and lovely. Truly a gem. On the topic of this question/answer, I assume most of you are young? Or at least younger than I am. I can tell you now that the way you feel now will not last. Change is absolute. There will be a time where you will look around you for reasons to be thankful. Make as many reasons as you can. You will need them.
  • misiti3780 8y ago
    Only if you plan on getting married and having kids, avoid those two things and not much else changes (IMO)
  • owyn 8y ago
    I don't know if anyone here knows who Polly/Heather is? If not, check out the suck.com archives (and her weekly cartoon Filler) for your 90's dot com boom era culture flashback. I agree, things change and sometimes you can't go back. Doors are always opening and closing, but the rate is never equal.
  • archagon 8y ago
    I get the sense that there's a lot of embittered-male, "rubbing it in" type comments in this thread. Mixed-gender communities seem to have much more balanced and meaningful discussions for these kinds of topics: https://www.metafilter.com/171539/I-did-everything-you-said-and-Im-still-alone https://www.metafilter.com/171539/I-did-everything-you-said-...
    • 1123581321 8y ago
      MetaFilter has its own problems. One common trope there is the angry, lonely person in their 30s-50s who paints the isolated life as beautiful and meaningful in order to feel better about themselves and possibly lure others into it. You see this the more you know the stories behind the usernames. The writing there is very nice at times, and I love that the small IRL communities have formed, but the discussion here is more honest and the advice is better.
• CPLX 8y ago
  Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain. You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today. And then one day you find ten years have got behind you. No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun. So you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking. Racing around to come up behind you again. The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older, shorter of breath and one day closer to death. This is an old true story. And the answer given by the article is mostly useless, some nonsense about the nature of art and accumulating a "treasure that doesn't disappear" or something. One thing you realize when you're old is that time is finite and life is all about trade-offs. Every day by choosing the things you do you are continuously foreclosing a whole range of things you aren't doing, and soon will never do. We live in a consumerist culture increasingly dominated by those with a financial interest in keeping us ignorant of this fact, but that doesn't make it any less true.
  • Johnny555 8y ago
    So you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking And you might be racing for something you don't really want. Figure out what you really want before you chase after it. If you're unmarried at 35, do you really want children, or do you think that you're supposed to have children and that doing so will make you feel more fulfilled? Not everyone needs or wants to be a parent and there's nothing wrong with not being one.
    • deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  • dlivingston 8y ago
    +1 for the Pink Floyd reference. Thanks for giving new context and meaning to an amazing song.
  • rsync 8y ago
    "We live in a consumerist culture increasingly dominated by those with a financial interest in keeping us ignorant of this fact, but that doesn't make it any less true." One of the more subtle, but powerful cultural subplots in the TV series "30 Rock" was the salutation that Dennis Duffy[1] would greet Liz Lemon with whenever she involved him in her life: "Hey dummy..." [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_30_Rock_characters#Dennis_Duffy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_30_Rock_characters#Den...
• balls187 8y ago
  I think the issue isn't the "wasted life" but rather how one measures their life. If she was in a committed relationship, had offspring, a home with equity, savings, and a career, there is no guarantee that would bring her fulfillment. And even if you had that fulfillment, there is no guarantee it lasts. Life is hard, it's cruel and not at all fair. And the way to survive is learn that no matter how hard it hits, you have to keep moving forward. I feel for the author. I do. I had "everything" going for me and in less than a year I found myself jobless, homeless, and prohibited from seeing my kids except for a few hours a day. Why? Because I finally stood up for us and called 9-1-1 on their mother for domestic violence. I'll edit: I'm now working on a new startup, loving every minute of it. I have a small apartment, and I have joint custody and parenting decisions with my kids. I'm getting help through a DV survivor group, making sure to prioritize my self care, and starting to date again. This struggle has brought me closer to friends, family, and to God, and has made me a better father. And it reminds me never to take for granted the things in life that I find joy in.
  • danso 8y ago
    Thanks for sharing. I had a close friend who was in a similar situation, and came to court to support him during the custody decision. It was so emotionally draining for me even as an outsider I can't begin to imagine actually being in that situation while trying to keep a career.
    • wallace_f 8y ago
      I had an experience with a woman who was banging on my door at night and threatening me. She had said she "already claimed me." I dont care about this woman and I dont have any ill will towards her but the whole thing was extroardinarily insane. Apparently she was working as a prostitute (someone else told me this and then showed me her ads on a website called backpage). After she threatened to physically hurt me, I eventually filed for a protection order. One witness said they would testify because they saw it. I asked my landlord for the video surveillance, but she said she would only provide it through subpoena. I couldnt find an affordable lawyer or figure out how to subpoena it before the court date. Later that witness renegged, saying they were threatened and said frankly 'I dont want you to get hurt, but who I really care about is myself and my family.' Others told me she had gone around saying her family was heavily involved in gang activity and she had told them to hurt me. She had posted strange things on FB about blood and violence, which some had shown me. Nobody really wanted to help me beyond that, though. One lawyer I visited said "I cant help you," because she assumed I was the aggressor. I explained I wasn't and that I had proof, then said, 'yea I know most of the time it is probably is the guy who is the aggressor' and then she said "I knew you were a rampant sexist." What in God's name is this? Nobody seemed seriously interested in putting things down to help me. Several other people seemed to end up hating me without ever even talking to me. It turned out my state had strict 2-party consent laws so whatever other evidence I could have possible have had was illegitimate. Many others privately told me they were sorry and that I should just 'move some new place and dont tell anyone.' Jesus Christ, I dont know, I didn't ask for this. Honestly, what the fuck. Sometimes the world seems insane.
• yholio 8y ago
  > And with men I date, I feel pressure to make something of the relationship too soon (move in, get married, “I have to have kids in a couple of years”; fun times!). All the while still trying to be the sexpot 25-year-old I thought I was until what seemed like a moment ago. It sounds like going from one end of the spectrum (aventuros, yolo) to the other (a family, fast), all while punching above their weight, so to speak, in terms of compatible long term partners. Most young women can easily find "serial monogamous", short term, male partners with highly desirable qualities such as physical good looks, relative success, social skills etc., but most of this limited pool knows they are desirable and do not really want to get bogged down with a family. When youth starts to fade away, reality kicks in - the highly desirable partners are not interested, and the average ones are already committed to long time partners who valued them in their own youth. Their "family" started a long time ago with mutual investment - you can choose not to make that trade-off but cannot have the cake and eat it too.
  • MRD85 8y ago
    I'm 33 and male, I find it amazing how the dating balance has shifted since I was 23. If I wanted I could easily line up multiple dates per week with women who I'd date. When I was younger a lot of women wouldn't give me the time of day.
    • ep103 8y ago
      Honest question, how do you meet them? I find things like dating apps are horribly tilted to the young?
      • MRD85 8y ago
        Mainly dating apps. I live in a very large city and I keep my age filters somewhat appropriate (27-35). If you struggle with dating apps I'd recommend getting decent photos, even if you need to pay a photographer and spend a day taking good Tinder/etc photos. Dating, even from people looking for serious partners, is a very shallow game. The more attractive someone finds you, the more interest they'll show you. This makes conversation much easier.
• andyidsinga 8y ago
  Anyone else read the Dear Polly part ...and just couldn't bring themselves to the Dear Haunted / advice part? I felt like just trying to sit in that situation; sort of ponder the whole thing without coming to any conclusions. How many people do I know who could be Haunted? How many times have I been Haunted myself? What got me out of that space? I just couldn't read the advice part. I think to the points when I've been in that dreadful place like Haunted. A few friends reaching out asking "how are you?" without offering any advice and especially not sharing a fucking story riddled with survivorship bias. Those little acts seemed to clear the fog; and even better, I knew that they just wanted to reach out and ensure that I knew they were thinking about me.
  • trgn 8y ago
    I didn't read the advice part either. Didn't seem fitting, felt wrong. Her letter stands alone.
  • icsllaf 8y ago
    IMO, most of the advice given to to the stuff Haunted says is usually the same no matter who the advice giver is. "Just be yourself", "If you stopped being so negative all the time you would be happier", "You can do whatever you want to do", "The only person holding yourself back is you". I've read a lot of this stuff and it generally feels like a wash. Like someone who has already overcame their problems and is at the high point is giving you these answers and to be honest, there isn't really much advice you can give unless you know them personally. There isn't much you can give a person who is feeling empty and disheartened.
    • rland 8y ago
      I agree. It's impossible to fix these type of problems with advice. Deep problems of identity. "Be comfortable with yourself" is advice that is technically true, but to get from here to there, so to speak, requires putting yourself into a messy, vulnerable personal relationship with another human being, who cares about you enough to break through and force you to care in turn. "Advice" is useless when it comes to deep interpersonal problems like this. Also, you can give easily advice like this without having ever fixed yourself: Just repeat platitudes.
• balls187 8y ago
  Perhaps people of my age were lucky to have had this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdQbb3FXSEI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdQbb3FXSEI
  • balls187 8y ago
    Full Lyrics: Ladies and Gentlemen of the class of '99 Wear Sunscreen If I could offer you only one tip for the future, Sunscreen would be it The long term benefits of sunscreen have been proved by scientists whereas the rest of my advice has no basis more reliable than my own meandering experience... I will dispense this advice now... Enjoy the power and beauty of your youth oh nevermind; you will not understand the power and beauty of your youth until they have faded But trust me, in 20 years you'll look back at photos of yourself and recall in a way you can't grasp now how much possibility lay before you and how fabulous you really looked... You are not as fat as you imagine Don't worry about the future; or worry, but know that worrying is as effective as trying to solve an algebra equation by chewing bubblegum The real troubles in your life are apt to be things that never crossed your worried mind, the kind that blindside you at 4pm on some idle Tuesday Do one thing everyday that scares you Sing Don't be reckless with other people's hearts; don't put up with people who are reckless with yours Floss Don't waste your time on jealousy; sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're behind...the race is long, and in the end, it's only with yourself Remember the compliments you receive, forget the insults, if you succeed in doing this, tell me how Keep your old love letters, throw away your old bank statements Stretch Don't feel guilty if you don't know what you want to do with your life... the most interesting people I know didn't know at 22 what they wanted to do with their lives some of the most interesting 40 year olds I know still don't Get plenty of calcium Be kind to your knees, you'll miss them when they're gone Maybe you'll marry, maybe you won't maybe you'll have children, maybe you won't maybe you'll divorce at 40, maybe you'll dance the funky chicken on your 75th wedding anniversary... what ever you do, don't congratulate yourself too much or berate yourself either your choices are half chance, so are everybody else's Enjoy your body,use it every way you can...don't be afraid of it, or what other people think of it, it's the greatest instrument you'll ever own Dance...even if you have nowhere to do it but in your own living room Read the directions, even if you don't follow them Do NOT read beauty magazines, they will only make you feel ugly Get to know your parents, you never know when they'll be gone for good Be nice to your siblings, they are the best link to your past and the people most likely to stick with you in the future Understand that friends come and go, but for the precious few you should hold on Work hard to bridge the gaps in geography and lifestyle, because the older you get the more you need the people you knew when you were young Live in New York City once, but leave before it makes you hard, live in Northern California once, but leave before it makes you soft Travel Accept certain inalienable truths: prices will rise politicians will philander you too will get old, and when you do you'll fantasize that when you were young prices were reasonable politicians were noble and children respected their elders Respect your elders Don't expect anyone else to support you Maybe you have a trust fund, maybe you have a wealthy spouse, but you never know when either one might run out Don't mess too much with your hair, or by the time you're 40, it will look 85 Be careful whose advice you buy, but be patient with those who supply it Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it's worth But trust me on the sunscreen
• rb808 8y ago
  There was a nytimes article about a famous author giving advice to young authors about keep trying, you can do anything. Meanwhile he didn't say he lived off a large inheritance. I think in the arts world its often the only real way and its a problem that people are encouraged to follow their dreams.
  • squish78 8y ago
    "following your dreams is for people with rich parents"
  • onlyrealcuzzo 8y ago
    Eh, I think most failing artists would do well to learn a lot about business. Very few people care about what's best. Yet so many artists strive to do the "best" something. Write the best story. Write the best song. Paint the greatest painting, and so on... That's fine. But you've got to know very few people actually care about "best". They care about new, different, someone who's creating art just for them. The ones that actually do care about quality, they're hard to reach, and everyone has different tastes. So no matter how good your art is, a lot of that small group of people who cares about quality probably won't like it still. It's all subjective! If you want to make a living as an artist, and you don't have an inheritance to live off, stop trying to win the artistic lottery. Start thinking of markets, how to differentiate yourself, how to create something you can sell, how to carve out a niche of people that will buy your art and pay for your living, how to grow that group of people, and over time, maybe you'll grow a big enough following that you can create the exact type of art you want to create. Until then, create something you can sell or starve. Fantasies are for stories. Life isn't easy.
• d--b 8y ago
  I feel sorry for the person in the article, but it seems curious to me that this reached the top of hacker news... Am I missing something?
  • jdhn 8y ago
    The article probably struck a chord with people who either feel the same way as the author of the letter, or can strongly empathize with her feelings.
  • culot 8y ago
    The resulting discussion here makes this post worth it. Such a fascinating and insightful thread!
  • RickS 8y ago
    Two things, I'd guess 1) This feeling of longing, helplessness, and futility resonates with a lot more people than you might expect from sitting on a park bench watching passersby 2) Lots of HN people have hot takes, of varying quality, on how one should behave in light of such a situation.
• danielor 8y ago
  Her story is sad. She seems lost, and I do not think she was helped very well by Polly. A lot of people feeling lost nowadays end up on the wrong side of 40 with little to show for it. It is heartbreaking to watch and must be terribly difficult for the families and people involved.
  • vasilipupkin 8y ago
    what is this obsession with having "something to show for it"? why is it not enough to just be a normal, decent human being?
    • danielor 8y ago
      It should be enough. Society puts a heavy burden on all of us to succeed in some way. It is hard to escape it.
• matt_morgan 8y ago
  I might have started from the "I’m drinking too much" part and raised that as the most important thing to address. Sometimes it's the result, sure, but more often it's the cause.
• dawhizkid 8y ago
  I've been reading Jordan Peterson's 12 rules and see a lot of applicability here, especially "treat yourself like someone you are responsible for helping."
  • petropolisful 8y ago
    If I could, I might recommend his self-authoring series to a person like this. I've been working through the prompts lately and this was a first thought as I read the letter, myself.
• MRD85 8y ago
  I'm currently halfway through a period where I miss a lot of life as I'm studying while working full time. My time commitments make it very difficult for me to do many activities, I'm often too tired anyway and I really cannot commit to a serious partner for another 2 years despite the fact I prefer to be in a relationship. I occasionally have periods where I feel like life is slipping me by but I refocus and remind myself that this is only temporary and that I'm working so hard for my future with concrete short-term goals. On the other hand, I'm quite lucky. I have two children who I have more days than not, so I don't have the fertility pressure the author of this article has. I suspect her biggest issue with her life is her fertility, as she sees an entire path her life could have taken fading away rapidly. I've dated a lot of women over the last few years and the one thing I've noticed is that women over 30, and especially 32, often seem more focused on finding a father for their children than a partner. The author even touches on how hard this makes dating, the pressure these women feel to get serious and start a family in a very short period of time. I'm 33 now and I have a large number of female friends who are reaching the point where things are becoming urgent. They've had these amazing lives so far, full of travel and hitting career goals, but they've neglected to find a stable relationship and now they're looking at their own fertility. I recently attended a small reunion of some college friends and of the 4 women, only 1 had children while 2 are 33+, single and childless and both of them seemed to want a partner/family. These are great women too who would have a lot to offer in a relationship but it's just hasn't worked out that way. In either 12 or 24 months, my ex-wife and I are moving to another city nearby where her family is. It's smaller, cheaper (I could buy a house immediately), has a really amazing beach culture, etc. I intend to plant roots hard and put in a lot of effort to meet new people and make solid friends
• acdanger 8y ago
  A great movie I saw recently that directly deals with the author's situation is Oslo, August 31. Grant it, there's little in the movie that the author would find comforting, but overall I found it to be a very realistic, if harsh, portrait of someone who has misspent a large portion of their adult life and the struggle to correct course. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo,_August_31st https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo,_August_31st
• camelNotation 8y ago
  I married very young. My wife and I had very little, both were working jobs for close to minimum wage with no marketable skills between us. So we sat down and decided what we wanted. We both wanted kids, she wanted to stay home with them when they were young. We both wanted a house of our own. We both wanted to live somewhere with family and friends that we could rely on to help us lay down roots and build that home. So the first thing we did was move to the place we wanted to try and stay forever. The second step was to go to school and get a skill. We both worked while I went to college for computer science. I'd been building computers since I was a little kid, was always good at math, decided it would be an easy way to get into the job market at a decent salary. I was right. Next, we paid off all that student loan debt. Stayed in our tiny apartment with next to nothing and just put that new tech salary into the debt until it was totally gone. Then we bought a house where the mortgage wouldn't be much higher than our tiny apartment. We could afford something three or four times bigger on my salary, but we didn't do that. Stayed small. Maintenance costs are low, cleaning it up is easy, and we don't even have an HOA to bother us (and I don't care, because it's not like I bought my dinky little house as an investment). Next came the kids. Started having one after another. She stays home, I work, we spend time together as much as possible. We have friends and family nearby that make life so much better in a million ways. Honestly, I have all these roots and commitments and still...zero stress. Life is great. And now all our extra money is going into long-term investments and traveling. We've started going all sorts of places. We'll be doing a tour of Europe in the next few years and I am in my early thirties at this point. So here is my message to anyone that read the person above and is reading this post now and hasn't yet spent their twenties and thirties having hobo adventures: Life is so much better if you just do what you evolved to do. There's no way to hack life and make it better in any real way. Pair up, get a trade, build a home, and enjoy that for what it is.
  • vernie 8y ago
    That's great, I'm so happy for you.
  • LeifCarrotson 8y ago
    > So we sat down and decided what we wanted. How did you know that's what you wanted? What gives you the authority to say that's the best path for everyone? Consider an analogy for me - you mentioned travel. Have you ever driven through the mountains? Hiked up a few? Even from the road, it's easy to look up and see spectacular peaks calling out your name, begging to be climbed. And coming from a flat, midwestern state, you may need to recalibrate your eyeballs for distance: You can't park the car for lunch and walk up most of them if you start in the afternoon...it's likely to take most of a vacation to hike in and up one or two peaks, so you need to plan your route before you arrive at the park. The tragedy of the story is that there's no better viewpoint from which to gaze at a distant mountain and imagine a climb up it than from the path up the adjacent one you're climbing up. I'm not yet thirty and have a family, a home, savings, a degree, and a career. I've got life-long commitments and am building solid roots like I thought I should, but now that I've got that all checked off it's not what I thought it would be. I've just got to continue trudging up this mountain I picked as a 17-year-old applying for college and dating one of the girls from high school. It's time to work my 40 hours, enjoy a few weeks vacation every year, and wait for retirement until eventually dying. It's quickly starting to feel unfulfilling and stifling. The author of the article has spent her twenties and thirties bouldering up dozens of smaller cliffs and clambering over foothills all over the place. You denigrate them as "hobo adventures" but it sounds magnificent to me. I won't get to spend my thirties adventuring like that because I have a wife and a kid and a trade and a home, and it's just not all it's cracked up to be.
• dawhizkid 8y ago
  I feel like there's the other side - the people who were groomed from childhood to pursue one career path (i.e. medicine or law), and end up actually achieving "success" in that field only to feel the exact same way - unfulfilled and feeling like they've wasted their life pursuing something that isn't actually meaningful to them.
• jiveturkey 8y ago
  meh. this doesn't deserve HN visibility IMHO. it's a standard complaint and a standard answer. i give 10% odds that it's a real letter. if it is a real letter, i give 1% odds no literary privileges have been taken, that it's authentic. OTOH, yeah it is well written, but great editors will do that for you.
• draw_down 8y ago
  Whatever little you have, whatever unexciting life you've lived, whoever you've become, it has to be enough.
• J-dawg 8y ago
  It’s politically incorrect, but I feel like feminism has sold a massive lie to women like this. Admittedly much of what she describes could apply to either gender, but it’s women who are hit hardest by fading looks and declining fertility. It used to be accepted cultural knowledge that if a woman desired marriage and children, she should probably spend her ‘best years’ looking for and committing to a husband. Now you’d be labelled a misogynist for even suggesting that. Women have been indoctrinated to think that they can spend their 20s and early 30s being ‘the poster child for serial monogamy’, and then have a husband fall into their lap when they’re ready for it. I’m sure it works out for many of them, but I feel sorry for the ones for whom it doesn’t.
  • watwut 8y ago
    Because it makes for the situation where women is comitted to familly and husband seeing her as nagging wife preventing him to do more fun things then boring familly. And she is nagging in truth, because it is not that great as single people without children imagine. It makes for moms who are criticized for living through children and damaging them that way and kids are supposed to leave anyway. Kids are not supposed to stay to make company to parents anymore.
  • danbolt 8y ago
    I'm a little confused when you say that feminism "has sold a massive lie to women". Feminism as a topic seems really large to me, and I'm not sure what about it you mean when you say that a big lie has been told. Would you be able to clarify?
    • Mizza 8y ago
      I think it's less a problem with feminism and more a problem with the corporate misappropriation of feminist attitudes - so, rather than worrying about actually supporting women (paid time off/maternity leave/onsite daycare, etc), society sells women the idea that they can "have it all" - a family while also being treated like men in the workplace (which, it turns out, means being disposable pawns for the capitalist machine). The "Lean In" phenomenon and the mandating of % of women on corporate boards are good examples of this.
• tormeh 8y ago
  I dunno. There seems to be many ways to be miserable. The only distinguishing feature of this might be that the possibility of doing it this way is rather new, and more relevant to HN. Suffocating in Podunk, Nowhere is an older thing. I think there is a happy middle ground somewhere, although it's probably individual. Not that I'd know. I struggle with this exact problem right now, I'm just younger and less extreme. Anyway, "Merry Go 'Round" by Kacey Musgraves is a great song.
• GlenTheMachine 8y ago
  This probably won't be popular, but what the hell. I feel like, if you strip away the outward trappings and dogma, this is what religion is good for. Not in a "believe in Jesus" or "trust in God" kind of way, but in a "how to orient your life" kind of way. Which is to say, the actually useful portion of religion generally teaches that your best life is probably not focused on you. It isn't about finding yourself, or being true to yourself, or really thinking about yourself at all. It's in being of benefit to the human beings around you. And in serving those around you, you become something that is worth being. It doesn't matter who you are or where you live, there are poor people around you. There are parentless children, drug addicts, parks that need cleaning, animal shelters that need dog walkers. You can always do something meaningful with your life. Try that, and see what kind of relationships you make. Look at and actually see a homeless person. See how that makes you feel. See if your worrying about your own future maybe drops away, or gets morphed into something you can do something with. See what kinds of other people you run into that way. Focus on, if not bringing joy to other people, then at least making their lives better. See if that doesn't - as a pure byproduct - change your own self-worth. Or maybe just make you less focused on it.
  • kakarot 8y ago
    [deleted]
    • Domenic_S 8y ago
      Religion, like drugs, can be useful and life-affirming, or it can be misused. Learning to code in high school is great, you should be proud of that!
      • jfk13 8y ago
        > Religion, like drugs, can be useful and life-affirming, or it can be misused. So can computers and programming, come to that.
  • scarecrowbob 8y ago
    I'm more or less an atheist by most standards, and I'm okay with that description. I fundamentally agree with you. We need things (that we imagine to be) outside of ourselves that are good in order to structure what we do. That otherness can be in the form of God or in the form of ethics, or in the form of whatever we unconsciously pickup as meaningful. Culturally (in the US at least), I don't think that there are a lot of serious options just laying around for people to pick up if they aren't into religion, and so we unconsciously pick up other people, transient material successes, short term goal fulfillment, or novelty seeking as a substitute for these long term orientations. When we unconsciously adopt those things (human relationships, solving our short term projects, being smart, or whatever) I think that we're bound to be disappointed because all of those things are pretty finite in what you can do with them: there is always a limit to how close a relationship can be, how healthy your body can be, how much professional success you can attain, and so on. I have a 17 year old who lives with me, and when he goes off to college, I will be happy. I am glad that I have a lot more in my life than just my children, because in the end it's important that they leave, eventually. Even your closest human relations need to have limits. So the choice seems to be between living with short term successes, picking up religion, or doing a lot of intellectual work to try and find meaningful stuff that doesn't have the same frustrating limits as the short-term goals. At this point, I have been finding that last option much more useful... finally, after two decades of being a dead weight of alienating drag, my degree in philosophy is starting to work out some things. So, yeah, I think that you're right: an ethic where you place meaning in your life in the wellbeing of humanity in general is a strong idea.
• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• fromthestart 8y ago
  >I’m trying, Polly. I am. I’m dating. I’m working out and working hard. Listening to music Yet she still refuses to lower her standards, apparently. Empowerment can be a hell of a drug. Hell, she has dozens of articles explaining away personal responsibilit and rationalizing the wretched state of her life[1]. E.g. she has another post captioned "resist the urge to treat friendlessness as a personal failure." I think we spent too much time teaching our generation to be confident, rather than teaching us to be competent and practical. Heather really has nothing but her own entitlement to blame, and she continues to be obvlivious. 1.https://www.thecut.com/author/heather-havrilesky/ https://www.thecut.com/author/heather-havrilesky/
  • balls187 8y ago
    > Yet she still refuses to lower her standards, apparently. How do you know what her standards are? Heather aka Polly writes advice columns. The person you quoted is asking Polly for advice.
    • fromthestart 8y ago
      Sorry, glanced through the article a little quickly.
• kelvin0 8y ago
  The amount of focus a person engaging too much in social media can cause this despair. Not saying it's Instagram's/FB/Tweeter's fault, but comparing yourself hourly to the 'fairy tales' out there can break even the strongest spirit. In fact comparing yourself to others is quite a double-edged swords with it's highs and lows, and throws your emotional states off-balance. I had a similar (but much less pronounced) experience in the first couple of years of reading HN. What was I doing? Comparing yourself to all these super-unicorn-entrepreneurs daily was taking it's toll on my appreciation of what I had already accomplished. All things in balance. Know thyself.
• suff 8y ago
  Artists care (actually DOING, not claiming) about creating a body of work, and this person cares only about herself. The author is a hedonist, not an artist. Important difference.
• robotrout 8y ago
  The thing that struck me was her age. She's 35. I like to tell people that I went from being young to being old in one birthday. There was something really significant about that birthday for me, that seemed to carry me instantly across the mental threshold from "having all the time in the world" to "you're old now". Of course, now I'm much older, and think of 35 and even 40 as being young, but I do remember it as being a big deal at the time. This woman reached that age and freaked out, since she evaluated where she was at in life and decided she was behind. It's definitely an age where you do take stock of your progress. At least it was for me.
• stevew20 8y ago
  W. T. F.
• zxcvvcxz 8y ago
  What you're reading is an increasingly common outcome for young women without guidance and goals coming from a patriarchal society. All that which entices young women these days - moving, traveling abroad, working in 'passionate' or artistic fields instead of real ones - correlates with moving further away from stable long term relationships, family, and financial security. And a 3+ year relationship ending dramatically - this is the expected outcome if you don't move to invest in family and create a shared future. God forbid her partner wanted children, a stable life in one location, the security of his partner not going out and acting like a 20-something year old, etc. But nobody ever dares speak any of this, and while previous generations enforced control, they never explained why, except cryptically through religion. So it's no wonder in secular western societies people just do what they feel, and end up like this. Now at best this no-longer-young woman will try to reform, change her patterns and behavior, just enough to attract a partner for the latter half of her life. And I'm sure she'll find one, as there are many poor male souls as well who know that a large part of their life and opportunities have passed. But what a sad state of affairs that we glorify and waste our youths, and scramble to pick up the pieces like this.
• hesdeadjim 8y ago
  The saddest part of this story to me is how easily some people can discard friends on a whim. I have made it an important part of my life and my decision making process to treat my friends like family. That means if I consider a move or any other big change, they are at the forefront of the "is it worth it" question. At 38 it's increasingly hard to make friends (note: not acquaintances), and at this point it's why I have zero interest in leaving Colorado, regardless of the opportunity.
• Lasagne 8y ago
  Wow another victim of third wave feminism and modern culture.
• Lasagne 8y ago
  Another victim of 3rd wave feminism and modern western culture. It will be hilarious when it becomes more and more apparent with every woman that hits her mid 30s and realizes she doesn't have shit to show for it.
• andrewstellman 8y ago
  I've known people who lived a life very similar to the one this person describes: moving from town to town, making art wherever they go, meeting new people, floating from relationship to relationship, not much money or stuff to their name, nothing really tying them down. The difference is that they were the sort of people who said "f_ck 'normal' society and its expectations" – an attitude that I don't see much these days – and, maybe as a result of that attitude, they were really happy people. > I used to think I was the one who had it all figured out. Adventurous life in the city! Traveling the world! Making memories! Now I feel incredibly hollow. And foolish. How can I make a future for myself that I can get excited about out of these wasted years? I hope she can learn to stop thinking about those years as wasted. She saw and did things that most people never get to see or do because they're too busy working. Plenty of 35-year-olds are in debt, upside-down on their houses, in miserable marriages, and just a few years from getting divorced, buying a convertible, and dating someone inappropriately young for them. More than a few of them would envy her life.
• eqdw 8y ago
  A while back I worked at a company I really liked. I made lots of good friends there and it was, I think, the best time in my life to date. A few days before I left that company, people have taken me out for farewell drinks. We hang out until late at night, having fun, drinking and eating and chatting and so on. Until it's like midnight and we all have to go home. One of my friends is the new girl. She's pretty attractive, and new in town. She's also from the suburbs and hasn't figured out the basic safety steps to being able to walk through downtown SF safely late at night, so she asks if I can walk her to her apartment. I say of course. As we start walking, she starts bawling. I take it things haven't been going to well in her life and she's got some demons to grapple with. Well that's fine, I'm not going to ignore a friend in need when she calls for help. So we sit and I listen as she goes for about two hours, telling me her problems. What were her problems? More or less the same as what was written in this article. She had just turned 30 and was starting to realize that she had nothing to show for it and the time available to her to settle down was quickly evaporating. It broke my heart. She was a really cool person. She was smart, and pretty, and yet still down to earth. Unlike a lot of people I'd met in SF, she wasn't snobby or arrogant. She had a lot going for her. But at the same time, she was on the same path as OP was and I didn't see her getting off it any time soon. Her big thing was travelling. She loved to travel. She'd been all over the world. She'd done backpacking, she'd done hotelling. She spent a few years living on a boat the Caribbean doing scuba stuff. She spent a few years living in an expat community in Asia. She had had a lot of experiences. But unfortunately, experiences are expensive, and it's really hard to put down roots when you're constantly on the move. And she was being made miserable by the conflict between her desire for an exciting life and her desire for a stable life. I didn't know what to say, so I tried my best to be a good friend in the moment. I haven't heard from any of the folks from that company in a few years. I hope she's found the life she wanted, and that she doesn't end up like OP
  • earthwrldshaman 8y ago
    >made miserable by the conflict between her desire for an exciting life and her desire for a stable life. I think this perennial human conflict raises its head in this post and discussion. It seems that how it presents itself in peoples lives depends on personality, upbringing, culture of influence etc. However, I get the sense that its a real thing in most cultures but with varying degrees of mutuality between 'adventure' and 'stability'.
• newnewpdro 8y ago
  She should look at the bright side; at least she's not stuck in an abusive marriage she hastily entered, corrupting a pile of kids in a toxic home.
• CptFribble 8y ago
  The most important thing for humans, is other humans. That gets left out of these types of discussions a lot, I think. I'm not one to hark back to the "glory days" of primitive society, but original humans operated in relatively close-knit groups, even when those groups were nomadic. I don't think we've moved on, psychologically, from that. There's a lot of cliches that touch on this, like "social media isn't the same as real relationships," but ultimately I think what Haunted needs is to just pick one place and find a community. A real community, not just girlfriends to drink with once a week. In our modern, complex society, it's not as easy as it sounds, since we don't all get a community by birthright like a lot of rural communities in the 99% agricultural days did, but there are tools and such to help you find an interest and a community. In her case, as someone who also aspires to write, there are writers seeking community with other writers in nearly every town in the USA, and definitely every major city. It sounds weird to say you can fix your problems on meetup.com, but there's no substitution for consistent human contact and real friendships that go beyond work functions or weekend softball games.
  • justaguyhere 8y ago
    but there's no substitution for consistent human contact and real friendships This. Some of my friends just wouldn't eat alone - they'd rather starve than eat a meal by themselves. I, on the other hand, have been eating alone for the last 15 years. I didn't understand why it is such a big deal, when I was younger - now, I am beginning to think my friends were right. Friendship, when it is simple/without strings attached/genuine, is a beautiful thing to have.
• doe88 8y ago
  Not sure it would help her but I can confirm at least one thing: she has a good writing style. That's not a given and proves she doesn't have everything wrong as she sadly seems to think.
  • RedPill101 8y ago
    It's fake. I could write such stories all day long.
• bojackstorkman 8y ago
  This was an interesting read. I guess I'll start with the response. As has been pointed out by others, bringing up the book was a weird humblebrag. It kind of makes me think that Polly chose to answer this particular request for help because it was an opportunity to continue promoting her book, not that it somehow organically happened to fit in with her advice. Also, it seems like a lot of the response kind of boils down to "nuh-uh!" and "cut it out!" with no shortage of affirmation-esque platitudes. From my personal experience, I have found that line of reasoning to be frustratingly valid only in retrospect for people that have already overcome the bulk of their depression/anxiety/existential dread. It's easy to be prescriptive or reductive when you have some distance from the issue that you're talking about, and that's not necessarily helpful for everybody. Anyway, as far as Haunted's post goes, I can entirely identify with those feelings. On my nineteenth birthday I had my house raided (and entirely destroyed) by the gang taskforce of the local pd. This was because in the middle of the night before, my house had been tagged with some gang related graffiti on the side of the house that faced the freeway. I couldn't afford to fix the place after the raid, and had no way of guaranteeing that the people that tagged the house wouldn't continue to do so. So I had to move with only the clothes I was wearing. At 20 I had to move overnight because a stalker broke into my mother's house (where I was staying) and tried to choke me to death. When the police arrived, I was almost arrested because the stalker had friends in the department (this individual moonlit as a kind of "high class" cocaine dealer to lawyers and a few judges in the area). Knowing he was certainly going to come back with no consequences, I moved again. This time I was able to carry my laptop and a change of clothes. At 21, me and my then-girlfriend up and left everything that wouldn't fit in her car so that we could move in with her parents as a way to get her out of prostitution. When we got there, her parents changed their minds and we ended up selling everything including the car in order to get a ride across the state to an office building I knew we could squat in. At 22, I was summarily kicked out of the living room that I had been crashing in because I told the guy whose house it was that I wasn't comfortable with covering for him every time he stole money from his wife to buy heroin. He kept my laptop and the bag of half my clothes out of spite. I have since lived in much more stable circumstances, and the last two time I'ved moved, I've kept all of my stuff and relationships! For the first time in my life! That being said, it's made it difficult for me to shake the mindset of "Don't buy it or care about it if you can't take it with you given five minutes' notice." In fact, I don't know if I'll ever be entirely without that feeling rattling around in my head. If put on the spot, I would have difficulty making a rational argument that my life hasn't been wasted. There objectively exists a number of periods of my life which I have nearly zero to show for. That being said, it's not a line of thought that I regularly entertain. That type of existential despair is simply too easy to wallow in. It's like quicksand. The idea of a ~Meaningful Life~ (and its opposite) is at once way too emotionally weighty and way too easy to mercurially define to be a useful focus for anybody, especially people that are already struggling with other issues. As for broke, it is a tangibly anxiety-provoking and embarrassing thing. Every little setback (like schools you're applying for asking for surprise paperwork that you can't access, being "mysteriously" rejected by a school wholesale without an interview just for ASKING if they offer financial aid, not being able to afford basic resources to launch a small business, etc.) makes everything seem more and more like there is some sort of cosmic curse at play, or that the world is actually reflecting my personal worth. All I can really do is keep trying, and personally only the tiny victories help with that sort of anxiety. That's just me of course, others might respond to being broke differently. As for "friendless", the only thing I can think to say to someone who makes that claim is "Are you sure about that?" I recently moved to a tiny town in the middle of nowhere and have yet to make any close friends in the area, but I still have close friends from all around the country that I talk to on a near-daily basis. Group chats are great for this. Whenever I am feeling lonely, I figure that it's on me to reach out. The friends you"ve moved away from probably miss you as much as you miss them, and while it's not the same as hanging out in person, an extended phone call or a nice text chain full of jokes and news snippets can be a healthy reminder that you haven't just "disappeared". Sorry this got a bit long, I might've lost and then re-found the thread of my reasoning at some point ;) Basically, I think it's good that the original author decided to reach out and ask for help, even if the help is from an advice columnist. I would encourage anybody else struggling with these things (like I currently am) to make an effort to do the same in whatever way works for them. Asking for help when needed, and offering it when capable are two of the most satisfying and empowering things a person can do. Also as stated by many posters, therapy from a good therapist can also be a godsend. Anyway I'm done rambling for now. If anybody wants to have a friendly chat about depression or isolation etc., feel free to shoot me an email! I am not a professional anything, but I'm pretty friendly and a good listener! :)
• projectramo 8y ago
  My own view on this is closest to Aristotle, but I will present you (HN readers) the full menu to choose from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eudaimonia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eudaimonia
• whiddershins 8y ago
  The problem I have with this answer is it basically denies the problem exists. Sure, in a sense, everything is subjective. All suffering is caused by the lens through which we filter reality. I believe Viktor Frankl writes persuasively on this topic after his experience in a concentration camp. But that’s a non answer in any practical terms, and telling someone their suffering is all in their head is rarely a solution for anything. This person made a series of choices over many years that has led to being 35, with no partner, no kids, no career, and no artistic pursuits. This legitimately sucks and is a hard problem that can’t be fixed overnight. It’s certainly not going to go away by denying that it sucks and all you need is an attitude adjustment. The person who wrote this response has a husband, kids, a prominent column and a book deal. She should be ashamed for her response. The person writing in can change their life, and all those awesome experiences will be of use and enrich the future. But the change toward the life they want will probably require small, incremental, consistent steps, hard work, and honesty. Anyway, that’s what I think.
  • rifung 8y ago
    > But that’s a non answer in any practical terms, and telling someone their suffering is all in their head is rarely a solution for anything. Hm I disagree with this but am open to be shown why I'm wrong. > This person made a series of choices over many years that has led to being 35, with no partner, no kids, no career, and no artistic pursuits. This legitimately sucks and is a hard problem that can’t be fixed overnight. It’s certainly not going to go away by denying that it sucks and all you need is an attitude adjustment. You are assuming that this sucks but I would then ask why does it suck? I imagine there are people who also have no partner, kids, career, or artistic pursuits and are happy living their lives that way. My understanding is that the unhappiness stems from her own expectations. She's unhappy because she wanted something and doesn't have it. But the reality is that even if she gets all the things she talks about, she may still be unhappy because she wants other things. It is like people who continue to make more money but also continue to strive to have fancier and fancier things. So I guess I disagree because I think an attitude adjustment is indeed the right thing to do here. Don't get me wrong, there are very real problems that this person is facing like her finances or lack of close friends. But things like having a career, artistic pursuits, and arguably kids, are not things that are required for living.
• yjhoney 8y ago
  If anybody empathizes with the post, what helped me was volunteering. Helping others and working with a group to help others gives me a lot of appreciation for all the little things that I have. Also, going out of my way to make someone else smile helps me stay happy. Compliments are a great way to start, I was inspired by a cool article about giving the perfect compliment - https://www.esquire.com/lifestyle/sex/a6271/how-to-compliment-1009/ https://www.esquire.com/lifestyle/sex/a6271/how-to-complimen... Being nice to others in a genuine way builds trust. And building this trust in people around you can help dissipate some of the emotional pain.
  • throwaway5250 8y ago
    Wow. That article is from 2009, and it really shows. Giving random compliments to strangers in 2018 is just a really bad idea. Doubly so in any kind of professional environment. Save it for your mate or your dog.
    • yjhoney 8y ago
      its so interesting that you have this opinion. wow!
    • zbentley 8y ago
      Why?
• Lasagne 8y ago
  Another victim of modern feminism. LOL
• jancsika 8y ago
  > It’s okay to be in debt and worried. Not in this case. With no family/child obligations, the short term goal-- and, depending on the size of the debt, midterm goal-- needs to be paying down the debt. Just take the example of the measly two-nights-in-a-hotel savings. Without debt she could freely decide to save for a month or two and increase that number by one or two orders of magnitude (depending on current job's income). Ahhh. With debt that savings cannot increase. No decisions are available to make. Sorry to be flippant but getting out of debt is the only option here. Giving any other advice would be like talking chess strategy to someone eternally stuck playing tic-tac-toe.
• janeybrad 8y ago
  God, this was a well needed read, feel like this myself often!
• jxramos 8y ago
  Makes me think about the message of the book The Defining Decade: Why Your Twenties Matter--And How to Make the Most of Them Now Meg Jay which has a nice review here: https://youtu.be/BeK7QVzSL64 https://youtu.be/BeK7QVzSL64
• manigandham 8y ago
  What's missing is meaning in life. It provides a sense of purpose, a system of values, and goals to strive for. If it's not family, then I recommend volunteering somewhere. Helping others is incredibly fulfilling and usually works for just about everyone who is in this position. Also, there are billions of people with far worse lives than you can imagine. Humans just like you and me that live in misery and will never experience a fraction of the freedom that you enjoy. That thought alone should be a sobering realization that your life is not that bad, and it's time to get up and do something.
• VLM 8y ago
  She's in the gaslit generation; we tell you to live like a college youth; until you can't anymore; then "go away" for the next self destructive generation to arrive and take her place. What happens to the human debris? Who cares. If you don't have a plan for your life other than reliving being a college freshman over and over every year, when you eventually hit the wall or get tired of the lifestyle with no way out, it'll shatter you, like the woman in the linked story.
  • icebraining 8y ago
    I'm curious, who tells people to live like college youths?
• joelfooxj88 8y ago
  gssdg
• RJIb8RBYxzAMX9u 8y ago
  So, basically this[0] and this[1]. If the author just needed to vent and sympathetic ears, then the columnist's 2000+ words platitude is fine. However, if she really wants out of the situation, then a more pragmatic[2] -- tldr; treat finding a SO like a job; she already professed that she's found no fulfillment on her current job, so might as well -- approach would be more useful. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-gfxjAaZg0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-gfxjAaZg0 [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwVRoUxr9pk&t=55 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwVRoUxr9pk&t=55 [2] https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=268422490 https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?stor...
• JimboOmega 8y ago
  I think a lot of people are ignoring the gendered context of the narrative she's presenting: the cultural notion that, as a woman, your value is measured in terms of your attractiveness and fertility. Those decline as you get older, and so does your value. When you are in your 20s you need to "make hay while the sun is shining", leveraging that to get where you want in life before the clock runs out. It's not a healthy narrative, nor one I agree with. But you can see why she might feel the way she does; she has really squandered the opportunity provided by her youthful beauty. I feel it myself (as a 36yo transwoman), compounded by a tech industry I work in that also has weird ideas about the value of youth. She needs to not just "get out of a rut" - she needs to realize that her value to the world is not being attractive, fertile, or wealthy. She needs to get to a place where she feels like she's providing value to others that goes beyond that. It's an uphill climb, as some of the posts here make very clear - there are a lot of people who view a woman's worth in a similar fashion.
  • seatdrummer 8y ago
    The painful truth is that reproductive worth is something that the woman is facing right now. Its fleeting and nearly gone. Its also a type of worth that stands above most.There are very few jobs or hobbies the average person would be willing to die for in the same way they would for their infant child.
• joelfooxj88 8y ago
  I honestly didn't like the advice that was given, but suppose it might've been its format that isn't quite suited for giving actual, useful advice. It's a magazine column, it's supposed to be vague, is what I tell myself. You're 35, feel lonely, lack connections, afraid of the future, afraid to commit to something, finding out that all your friends who decided to live a 'normal' life are thriving in their own ways. Perhaps you're right, they are having a better time of it. Perhaps you're wrong, that they have their own troubles and their own burdens (if you had taken a path where you had a child, but that that child had an intractable illness... would you prefer that path rather than this one?). I'm going to toot the Jordan Peterson horn here, so if you don't like it - don't read it. One of the most practical pieces of advice I've gotten from him is - make a plan. I'm in a similar place. I did an undergrad degree that genuinely interested me, and I've definitely benefitted from that. I have a job that has the possibility of going no where (but I suppose most jobs have that possibility). I want to pivot my skillset to something more concrete (like software development) despite the fact that I have no background in it. I don't have much savings. I'm alone and have a few close friends. Most days I spend worrying about the future and groping my way forward. But I am 100% better than I was maybe a year ago, where I would smoke weed almost daily, spend an entire day playing video games, masturbating too much. Those aren't inherent moral failings, but they were interfering with a life I'd want to have. So I made some goals, and I broke them down into actual daily hard targets. I started small. Get to work on time, put in a solid 8 hours, gym in the morning, eat right, clean my room regularly, make sure I maintain connections with friends and family, practice coding at night, doing undergrad courses as a non-degree student. I don't know if this will work out as I intend it to, but it sure as hell beats sitting around hoping things will turn around on their own accord.
• mikulabc 8y ago
  If you are friendless, you should join a speed friending event, something like this www.speedfriending.at
• msiyer 8y ago
  This is a path one can choose. Another is to rediscover the childlike wonderment by becoming a keen observer of nature. It strips away the ego. We do not really invent anything. We mimic nature. All our Mathematics, Science and Technology already exists. Our egos are unjustified. Just pay attention to who is actually driving your car or riding your motorcycle. You will realise that it is not the conscious you. There certainly is an autonomous supercomputer in our brains. Can we control it? The best data storage mechanism known to us is the DNA. No SSD comes close. We haven't even really figured out how our brains really store "videos" and "images". Also pay attention to things like premonition. I have had it. Most of us have had these experiences. Talk to people about these. There is no scientific explanation for these experiences. We are connected to everything else. Our lives in isolation have no meaning.
• madrox 8y ago
  This is a very common experience. Sooner or later you get out of "survival mode" in your life and start to wonder what's left. I think this used to be called a mid-life crisis. Speaking generally, I've seen people find their way out of it by making their lives be about something other than themselves. That can mean kids, a community, a cause, or anything that requires setting their ego aside. I don't think this is a flaw of western culture, as many characterize it. I think our parents and their parents did a poor job preparing this generation for dealing with this because they were rarely prosperous enough to think about more than just survival. That could hit any culture that went through less prosperous times equally.
• logfromblammo 8y ago
  I'm gonna skip the columnist response, and jump right to "stop getting drunk on alcohol" as step one. Then (re-)watch the episode of "The Good Place" where Chidi becomes a nihilist and makes chili with marshmallow Peeps. "It could be that the purpose of your life is to serve as a warning to others." -- "Mistakes" demotivator, Despair.com That yawning void in your soul that constantly whispers to you, "your life is meaningless, and nothing you do matters"? That's exactly what connects you with every other human that has ever lived. Most people who start to notice it just cover it up with a concert poster, or a salacious pin-up, or a photo of a sailboat, or a religious icon, just to avoid looking into it, and hearing it, and having all vitality and joy drain away through it. But it's still there. It's not wrong. Your life really is meaningless, and nothing you do matters. "Man is born. Man lives. Man dies. And it's all vanity." -- "Thrills", Cake There is nothing about your life that had enough inherent value to waste. It just is what it was, the sum of all you were before. And it won't be exactly what you wanted it to be, because of entropy and psychology. You can spackle over the hole with anything that comes to hand, and desperately try to forget it's there, or you can let it remain, droning that high-pitched whine, from all the substance in your life getting sucked out into its vacuum. A lot of what people do is, in essence, lying to each other, to save one another from that existential torment. Listen to a song on the radio? That's 3 minutes you can't hear the Hole. Watch a movie? That's 90 minutes of not staring into the Hole. Raise a kid? Heck, that's good for almost 20 years. Your Hole isn't any bigger than anyone else's. It has exactly the same amount of nothing in it. No matter what you pour into it, you're never going to fill it up--alcohol, drugs, sex, religion, entertainment, politics; they all get swallowed up in the end. If you accept that it will always be there, no matter what you do, you can slowly acclimate yourself to it. Try it on for size. Tell yourself: "I'm going to die, and everything I am will one day be forgotten." "Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair." -- "Ozymandias", PB Shelley So what's the point of living? Why don't we just lie down and never get up again? Why don't we lose ourselves in endless pursuit of cheap thrills and chemical highs? Because that's against the rules of the LARP game many of us play called "Being Grown-Ass Adults in the Real World". Some people do quit, and stop following the rules, and that's their choice. If you want your life to be yours, you'll just have to come up with your own purpose for it. No one is scoring points for being more noble or more visionary. You won't get judged by anyone or anything that matters for aiming too low, or not making enough progress on any given day. Even if you don't come up with a purpose right away, you can still go through the motions of survival until you do. If you live another day, that still makes you just as good as any other animal. The cat gets it. Suck up to the human just a little bit, and they'll give you food and take away your poop. Suck up to the employer just a little bit, and they'll give you money to buy food and toilet service. If you can love your cat for doing nothing at all you consider important, some other human can certainly love you for the same level of accomplishment. (That is, if being loved is something you actually want.) You don't have to be what other people want you to be. You don't even have to be what the person you used to be wanted to become. You don't have to live a life of greatness. You don't have to live a life devoid of meaning. The rules only apply to you if you want to play. Nobody else can be you but you, so you might as well get started.
• AtlasBarfed 8y ago
  Our modern consumer culture infantilizes both sexes and keeps them "young in spirit". This is by design I now realize. Remember the magic 18-35 demographic? Think about what would happen if the advertising industry could, say, move that out 5 years? 10 years? 15 years? (50 is the new 30!!!). I'm convinced, either by design or the simple aftereffect of youth worship in America that is what is happening. Consumerism lulls you into a life of minute distractions in empty things, and prevents you from reflecting and appreciating long term / difficult things. AKA having kids. For men, well, they can sire children pretty late, with some side effects of slight increases to defect rates. Women? The march of time is brutal on the eggs.
• thebear 8y ago
  Have you seen the old girl who walks the streets of London, Dirt in her hair and her clothes in rags. She's no time for talking, she just keeps right on walking, Carrying her home in two carrier bags. So how can you tell me you're lonely, And say for you that the sun don't shine. Let me take you by the hand and walk with you the streets of London, Show you something to make you change your mind.
• bigbluedots 8y ago
  Looking at something through the lens of 'art' is, to me, a way of avoiding looking critically at the issues and their possible solutions. At the same tike I agree that being ashamed about the situation doesn't help in analysing the issues either.
• pdimitar 8y ago
  So many people here are happy to point out that you should not look at anything about yourself -- and that you should try and make a difference out there. That's very Zen of you, but it is SEVERELY missing the point. Burnout and depression do not ask for a new reason to live. They ask for a break from the negative experiences that caused -- and now maintain -- the initial burnout and depression. They also ask for sources of energy and optimism. Amortizing your already tired lower back while voluntarily cleaning a local park won't give you that. It's very likely it will make you less capable of overcoming your burnout and depression, even. (Well-targeted workout can still help though.) I am disappointed at the massive virtue signalling in HN sometimes.
• akayoshi1 8y ago
  As long as you don't become an active shooter, criminal, terrorist, serial killer, psychopath, or end up committing suicide, then technically your life was not a waste.
• throwaway5250 8y ago
  Advice from a dinosaur: Find a divorced dad who has custody of his kid(s) and is in dire need of help with raising them. Nothing is more meaningful that providing children with a good home to grow up in. Pour her soul into it. Make sure said dad is reasonably good with money, as she clearly is not. Don't be too picky about looks, but make sure it's someone who can basically float her boat. Forsake all others. Then follow grandma's recipe: Keep his stomach full and his balls empty. Does that sound awful? Does it matter, if it works?
• stevespang 8y ago
  Exactly the end games of both my brothers . . .
• crunkykd 8y ago
  Man, she sounds like she hates her life. That truly sucks. My advice is to get to Burning Man. She needs to see another way of defining value in herself and others.
• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• jslabovitz 8y ago
  This is kind of amazing: finding Buddha in an advice column. Definitely subscribing -- thanks, original poster, for the ref.
• amorphous 8y ago
  I had a similar experience, travelled a lot, many different jobs, changing relationships - but I see myself as a success, would not want to change that experience for anything. In my 40s now with kids and loving wife - still moving jobs and countries (but with my family this time) I couldn't be happier. Yes, I had periods of desperations and self-doubts but I would have had those also had I stayed in the same place focussing on the "career ladder". I'm happy I following my urge to see the world and embrace chaotic life. "Wasted live" is nothing but a question of perspective. I don't have debt though - that part is indeed worrisome.
• whitecatexport 8y ago
  dated possibly this person. all checks out. if it is her let me tell you this -- she spent the whole 3 years passionately writing livejournal type things with strangers, kept a bunch of "fan" type guys around (you know the type) who shed never consider actually dating but she liked the attention, and I dumped her when I found some flirty shit between them. I dont know if she ever actually cheated but that's already well below who im willing to marry. she defended her position as "just missing making a connection". ok girl whatever I was emotionally and physically available but not a d-list twitter material. I hope it now finally clicks and you also got your eating under control. you still sound like the self-created crisis I left you as.
• thecity2 8y ago
  This is like every OK Cupid profile I see in SF.
• RedPill101 8y ago
  You're hitting the wall soon and I see a lot of cats in your future. You've probably been riding the c@ck carousel in your twenties and you just woke up from your tinder fantasies. It's too late. Remember that nice guy you kept ignoring favoring the chads for a quick night stand ? You could be a happy mother right now, have that nice house in the suburbs you made fun of with your friends.
• RedPill101 8y ago
  You're hitting the wall soon and I see a lot of cats in your future hon. You've probably been riding the c@ck carousel in your twenties and you just woke up from your tinder marathon. you never that carreer you read about in feminist magazines. It's too late. Remember that nice guy you kept ignoring favoring the chads for a quick night stand ? You could be a happy mother right now, have that nice house in the suburbs you made fun of with your friends. You're fvcked.
• RedPill101 8y ago
  Yeah nice story but it's fake af sorry.