23 ms·

Daydream – Google VR

493 points by madmax108 10y ago

halite 10y ago
This somehow remind me of Playstation home (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Home https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Home) which was a neat concept but never quite gained the momentum.
gberger 10y ago
The Harry Potter exclusive is gonna be huge.
- Robby2023 10y ago
  Do you have more info about that?
  - Desustorm 10y ago
    It's a VR exclusive version of "Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them" where you are a wizard (and therefore have a wand, too) and explore the Harry Potter universe.
  - om42 10y ago
    They talked about it earlier during the live stream. Looked like a unique experience from "Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them" where you're a wizard.
    - ericjang 10y ago
      "you're a wizard" Say no more. Take my money.
- watty 10y ago
  I don't know, if it's similar to any of the GearVR demos I've tried it'll be a neat 10 minute or so of excitement, nothing more.
- ashark 10y ago
  Maybe this isn't true—and maybe it'll go over well even if it is—but the video they showed made it look like a cheap hidden object game.
NathanKP 10y ago
I think the approach of giving it a fabric look and feel will be huge for the non techy consumer market appeal. This device looks like something that I can put on and relax on the couch with. The other VR headsets I've seen are much more of a "strap this hard plastic gadget to your head" feel.
- teej 10y ago
  Where did you get this info from? The link posted only has a line drawing rendering of the device.
  - lallysingh 10y ago
    http://live.arstechnica.com/googles-104-pixel-event/ http://live.arstechnica.com/googles-104-pixel-event/ has a live-stream of the event.
    - teej 10y ago
      Thanks. For others interested, here's a picture: http://live.arstechnica.com/googles-104-pixel-event/images/IMG_0202.JPG http://live.arstechnica.com/googles-104-pixel-event/images/I...
  - kyrra 10y ago
    On the google store now too: https://store.google.com/product/daydream_view https://store.google.com/product/daydream_view
- haydenlee 10y ago
  Should be noted that the Oculus Rift is also made of fabric but agreed that it is a great idea, and unique in the mobile VR space.
  - NathanKP 10y ago
    The difference is Google Daydream is really making the fabric texture very, very obvious. It almost looks like a soft American Apparel tshirt or something like that: http://i.imgur.com/F2iR3nm.png http://i.imgur.com/F2iR3nm.png On the other hand in Oculus marketing the surface doesn't even look like fabric: http://i.imgur.com/UnRJndA.png http://i.imgur.com/UnRJndA.png
kyledrake 10y ago
A proprietary VR framework for a specific flavor of mobile phone with inadequate displays that will make people want to vomit if they try to use it for any serious amount of time. Wonderful. God forbid we come together on WebVR instead of turning the VR space into yet another "monopolies punching eachother" not-invented-here pit fight.
- watty 10y ago
  I've got a GearVR with Galaxy S6 and the display is adequate. Not one of the 6 or so people I've let try it have wanted to vomit. No one is stopping you from running with your own WebVR platform, my guess is that it's not an easy thing to make money off of (which is what Google does).
  - kyledrake 10y ago
    > I've got a GearVR with Galaxy S6 and the display is adequate. Not one of the 6 or so people I've let try it have wanted to vomit. Try using it for an hour or more. Keep a toilet handy. > No one is stopping you from running with your own WebVR platform, my guess is that it's not an easy thing to make money off of (which is what Google does). It's fun to pretend this is a passive thing that doesn't hurt the rest of the industry, but they've cannibalized talented people for this project that were previously working on WebVR. So I'm sorry if I'm not all that jazzed about torturing developers for the next 10 years with several shitty proprietary SDKs for doing VR development that won't work with eachother, when we could have a standard we can all come together and agree on and that runs on every device and platform with the same code. Have we seriously learned nothing from mobile phone competing SDKs and proprietary app stores nightmare?
    - fixermark 10y ago
      I think what we've learned from the past several years in game development is "Let Unity paper over the SDK differences, and if you need to rip apart the engine, hire a subcontracting game dev studio to port your stuff to other architectures."
    - 10y ago
metafunctor 10y ago
There is very little information on the page. Am I missing something, or is there more information somewhere else?
- umeshunni 10y ago
  The livestream of the Google hardware event had some more details (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4y0KOeXViI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4y0KOeXViI) The event is still going one (but discussing other products)
- kakali 10y ago
  Here's some more information from the company blog: https://www.blog.google/products/google-vr/daydream-bringing-high-quality-vr-everyone/ https://www.blog.google/products/google-vr/daydream-bringing...
davesque 10y ago
I like how Google is trying to bring VR into everyone's home. However, how accurate can the head movement tracking actually be without some kind of external tracker? I'm sure there must be some perceptible drift between the actual position of your head and the tracked position.
- dindresto 10y ago
  I've been suspicious as well about that at first, but after having tried Google Cardboard myself on a OnePlus 3, I was surprised by how accurate accelerometer powered head tracking worked. I'm sure there are specific cases that aren't covered by this level of accuracy, but overall, it works perfectly fine.
  - hashhar 10y ago
    It's not just accelerometer, the gyroscope is what makes it so stable. The gyroscope combined with the accelerometer and the compass is able to accurately find your relative motion in 3D space without any external references (just the initial point) using simple physics. But yes it also drifts but very slowly.
    - davesque 10y ago
      I wonder if there's any way to periodically compensate for the drift, such as with video information taken from the camera or something like that? Seems like it should be possible to do this.
- wwwtyro 10y ago
  Yeah, it's an important point. There's two primary aspects to head tracking - translational motion and rotational motion. Tracking rotation can be done pretty cheaply & with low latency these days, and I expect the Daydream viewer will probably handle it quite well. Translation is quite a bit more challenging, and I'm not expecting much in that department for this iteration. The issue can be addressed to some degree with a neck model that maps rotation to translation, but it can't handle real translation, such as leaning or walking around. This is on par with Oculus/Samsung's current mobile solution, the Gear VR headset.
rnernento 10y ago
Just what VR needs, another slightly different platform...
- lallysingh 10y ago
  Until something sticks in the market, it's good to have a variety of products. The differences for software devs are essentially some camera projection settings and tolerances to sensor error.
jimrandomh 10y ago
Does this offer any advancements over the Oculus/Samsung GearVR? Given that they're launching a full year after Oculus, I would hope for something more than a direct clone.
- pen2l 10y ago
  Yes, a lot of things. But most significantly, the auto calibration and focusing. (Currently, if you have a VR headset and want to use it with a phone, you have to go through a painstaking process of making sure the phone is in the dead center. Sometimes even when you have centered it, it can get a little bit off if you shake the phone really hard or whatever... and then you get headheaches if it's not properly aligned). This is a pretty big deal in my view. Other than that, the whole integrated environment and the new joystick-like interface thing is a pretty big deal too.
  - soylentcola 10y ago
    Plus isn't the GearVR limited to specific Samsung phones? The Daydream headset seems more like a nicer version of cardboard in that it's a "dumb" headset and the phone does all the work. Ordered a Pixel to upgrade my Nexus 5 but not buying the headset so I guess I'll find out when I plop it into my Cardboard headset to test it out.
    - phairoh 10y ago
      If you preordered a Pixel from Google's site you'll receive a promo code for the headset in a few weeks.
    - MikusR 10y ago
      Daydream is limited to specific Daydream certified phones.
  - lux 10y ago
    That's only compared to Cardboard though. Gear VR locks the phone in place, so there's no calibration step. Gear VR also has a focus wheel, which while not perfect, does let you hand it to a friend who can adjust it to their vision. Not as good as just putting glasses inside, but glasses come in lots of sizes, and I'm sceptical of claims to be glasses-friendly, which so far haven't proven to be the case (Vive, Rift, and Gear are far from it).
chadlavi 10y ago
so you have to buy their new phone to use this? cross this off my list then.
- fma 10y ago
  Haven't seen then say it...but if it's just a fancy version of the Google Cardboard...Google Cardboard supports many phones. Edit: Clicked the link (my knowledge was from other PR) and looks like it's only for pixel
  - chadlavi 10y ago
    Yeah. The only reason I say this is because their "supported phones" link just links to the Pixel. They're not outright saying it only works on that device, but that does sort of imply it. The headset must be device agnostic, I'd imagine, put whatever fits in there. But the Daydream software might be walled off.
    - jdietrich 10y ago
      Any manufacturer can produce a Daydream-ready phone; ZTE and Asus have already announced theirs. To ensure a good experience, Daydream-ready phones must meet a set of minimum standards. They need consistent performance, low motion-to-photon latency and Android N. Google don't want to harm the Daydream brand by opening it up to phones that won't provide a good VR experience. I wouldn't expect many people to upgrade their phones purely for Daydream, but it may be a factor when their contract is up for renewal. Daydream compatibility is attractive to phone manufacturers who are struggling to differentiate their handsets or offer a compelling reason to choose a high-end device.
- kyrra 10y ago
  "Requirements: A Daydream-ready smartphone, like Pixel" Pixel is the only one for sale I believe that is Daydream ready, but more are on their way from other manufacturers. ex: ZTE Axon 7 and Asus Zenfone 3 Deluxe[0]. [0] http://www.androidauthority.com/google-daydream-vr-ready-phones-705245/ http://www.androidauthority.com/google-daydream-vr-ready-pho...
erikpukinskis 10y ago
All I want for Christmas is mobile positional tracking. Leap Motion. John Carmack. Google Tango. ZED. Who will be The One? Who will get positional tracking into a phone or headset? Edit: In my fantasy world Carmack is teaching himself chip design and will put a low power positional tracking computer vision ASIC in the next GearVR. Why Oculus isn't putting the full force of their company behind that National Treasure of a man I have no idea.
- rawnlq 10y ago
  There's something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbkwew3bfWU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbkwew3bfWU
  - erikpukinskis 10y ago
    Yah! Add it to the list of dev kits. My question is who gets it integrated a phone or headset first so it can have widespread adoption?
johansch 10y ago
So, just to set expectations: All of the big SV companies need to have a VR play and this is Google's. Personally I believe in the long-term viability of VR, but in this case it just seems like an expendable just-in-case-it-takes-off thing. / Feeling slightly burned from them more or less abandoning the last Google hardware I bought; the Nexus Player tv set-top-box.
asenna 10y ago
Does anyone know if the headset is supported by the Nexus 6P? The 6P is a very capable device and I don't see a reason to upgrade mine. But I am thinking of trying out some Daydream VR development. I know that till now, 6P was the only device to develop for Daydream, but I'm wondering how well would it work with the actual headset released today. Maybe just run at some low fps but not too bad for trying it out? Or is the headset locked for only "Daydream certified" phones (I doubt they'll lock out the 6P though).
- sxp 10y ago
  From https://developers.google.com/vr/daydream/dev-kit-setup https://developers.google.com/vr/daydream/dev-kit-setup "Caution: The 6P's thermal performance is not representative of the consumer Daydream-ready devices that will be launching later this year. In particular, expect the 6P to thermally throttle CPU and GPU performance after a short period of use, depending on workload."
  - daveloyall 10y ago
    Sounds like a home-made heatsink could increase performance for that device. And based on the photos of Daydream, I'd say there's room to install one... I think getting good heat transfer connectivity might be tough (does that device get hot on the front or back?) and weight might be a problem.
    - asenna 10y ago
      Having played with some VR apps on it, gets hot on the back
eridius 10y ago
So if I'm understanding this correctly, this is basically a productized Google Cardboard?
- corysama 10y ago
  The difference between some random Android device running a Cardboard app vs a Samsung Gear VR running a Gear VR app is night-and-day. Daydream certified phones and apps should be about as good as Gear VR. We'll see if it's a little better/worse/same soon.
- shams93 10y ago
  No daydream has a whole set of new standards in terms of features and performance a phone has to meet to be labeled "daydream ready."
- tree_of_item 10y ago
  More like Google Cardboard was a toy Daydream. As in, Daydream was always the intention, but some hackers did a quick proof of concept in cardboard and it kinda took off.
  - 1_2__3 10y ago
    Daydream is still a toy. It's just a fabric toy instead of a cardboard one.
- dghughes 10y ago
  Face bra.
- joezydeco 10y ago
  I thought the Viewmaster VR was a nice productized Google Cardboard. https://www.amazon.com/View-Master-Virtual-Reality-Starter-Pack/dp/B011EG5HJ2 https://www.amazon.com/View-Master-Virtual-Reality-Starter-P...
  - thebouv 10y ago
    My daughter and I bought this and really liked it. Meant to try and build a simple VR demo with it, but we never got around to it. She drifted away from programming and more into art. Maybe she'll come back around again.
nickysielicki 10y ago
When they say, "take a look at the devices designed and built for virtual reality", and the only device is the new Pixel, I have to wonder if this means that the Pixel has a display with an unusually high refresh rate or resolution, or if Google just really wants to kill the ecosystem before it begins with needless exclusivity.
pmontra 10y ago
Strange that weight is missing from the spec. You want the lightest phone stuck to your head.
- rtkwe 10y ago
  Most of the weight will be whatever phone you slot into it most likely. And absolute weight isn't as important as it being properly supported. The difference between the Vive headset properly and poorly adjusted to your head is night and day.
macandcheese 10y ago
Is nobody concerned about basically staring into a cell phone 2 inches in front of their eyeballs?
- SonicSoul 10y ago
  it's even closer when you talk on it. But i agree we don't need any more reasons to hold it so close to your head.
  - MBCook 10y ago
    I think the GP meant more along the lines of "Focusing at 1.5" for a long period of time" not "holding electronics near my head for extended periods".
    - macandcheese 10y ago
      I actually meant maybe we shouldn't be holding a heat and RF-emitting screen two inches from our eyeballs. My phone gets hot when streaming a lot of music - I can only imagine how hot it gets while using all that processing power to run a VR program!
      - MBCook 10y ago
        Oh. I've hear of GearVR shutting down mid-use due to heat (at least on older phones when it was new).
- tbassetto 10y ago
  Only if it's a Galaxy Note 7.
- Sargos 10y ago
  Not really. Your eyes are focusing into the distance. It's not really "2 inches away" when you are looking at it.
  - 10y ago
Sir_Cmpwn 10y ago
I'm sick of phones as the basis for VR. I tried Cardboard, it has real problems. The battery life is bad when you're doing 3D things, the phone gets very hot on your face, and the GPU is underpowered for pretty much every purpose including rendering a realistic enough scene for VR immersion.
- krastanov 10y ago
  To counter: VR on the smartphone is great for visualizing preprocessed data. I love being able to view 3D research data on a comparatively cheap device and that I can share the visualization with everybody that has a phone, not only labs that have decided that it is worth it to buy a dedicated headset. Moreover, setup of the Cardboard is trivial compared to other headsets (no matter how easy it might be, you can not beat "just launch this youtube video").
  - thearn4 10y ago
    Out of curiosity what sort of data and data visualization strategies would VR be particularly well suited for over more traditional visualization methods?
    - krastanov 10y ago
      A good pitch would be: Medical diagnostics/pathology professionals are really exited about VR as (according to those I have spoken to) the 2D presentation of 3D data impedes making precise diagnosis (which VR solves).
    - imtringued 10y ago
      Displaying the result of a CT scan maybe?
      - thearn4 10y ago
        Medicine does seem like a good possibility, though I'm not very familiar with the problem space.
knodi123 10y ago
They should make a shorter list of just exactly how it's different from cardboard.
SonicSoul 10y ago
its interesting how wildly different these big companies are when it comes to product delivery. Apple will not say a word until they are ready to ship. Google will announce way in advance so their developers don't have much choice but to ship. "done but buggy > perfect". I suppose release dates get delayed often. Not sure which approach is better.
ucaetano 10y ago
I like the inspiration for it: not a hard game controller, but a sleeping mask. That's actually a good insight.
miles_matthias 10y ago
I'm excited about VR, but strapping your phone to your face doesn't seem like the best approach.
- rtkwe 10y ago
  It's not, but it's not meant to be. It's a place for more people to get to experience it because it's still way cheaper than buying the current best solution Vive + a gaming system capable of running it then get excited for the Vive or Oculus 2+ in a few years when the specs to run them are easier and maybe we can fit the positional tracking onto the headset instead of requiring lighthouses.
  - rbosinger 10y ago
    Totally. This is the early adopter "Sure I'll blow $100 on this toy along with my new phone" kind of stuff. People that get these kind of things now will show friends. They'll get excited. Those friends will buy into VR in droves when the kinks get worked out.
siavosh 10y ago
Have either Google or Oculus addressed any health risks due to cell/wifi as a result of holding a phone close to your face for extended periods?
- Filligree 10y ago
  The consensus is that there aren't any.
- asciimo 10y ago
  I think there would need to be evidence that holding a cell/wifi chose to your face causes health problems. This is what the American Cancer Society thinks, if you trust them: http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancercauses/othercarcinogens/athome/cellular-phones http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancercauses/othercarcinogens/a...
  - macandcheese 10y ago
    From that ACS page you linked to > "The study found increased (although still low) risks of these tumors in male rats exposed to RF radiation, although there was no increased risk among female rats." > "There was again a suggestion of a possible increased risk in the 10% of people who used their cell phones the most, but this was hard to interpret because some people reported implausibly high cell phone use, as well as other issues." > "Some studies have found a possible link. For example, several studies published by the same research group in Sweden have reported an increased risk of tumors on the side of the head where the cell phone was held, particularly with 10 or more years of use." > "A recent small study in people has shown that cell phones may also have some other effects on the brain, although it’s not clear if they’re harmful. The study found that when people had an active cell phone held up to their ear for 50 minutes, brain tissues on the same side of the head as the phone used more glucose than did tissues on the other side of the brain." How can people dismiss this as not worrying? How can people bring these concerns into discourse without being labeled a Luddite?
kmonad 10y ago
This could be straight out of the show 'silicon valley'. Gorgeous polar lights as the background of a sleek landing page, a strange but appealing geometric structure hovering between dark outlines of trees --> scrolling down, a pair of diving goggles are revealed that you can use to stick your phone into. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited and it's probably going to be cool, it's just hilariously stereotypical.
- bduerst 10y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZB2s3-Q15s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZB2s3-Q15s
1_2__3 10y ago
So a slightly more production-ready version of cardboard, but requires a specific phone that not one customer has yet. When do we stop buying into the Google product hype? How many other chase-the-rabbit approaches to products is Google going to shove in front of our faces before we realize it's almost all smoke and mirrors? It seems completely laughable to me that this "product" will even exist past 2017, let alone be any kind of leader in anything (innovation, market share, creating a new market space, etc.). I know jaded cynicism is never attractive, but it's honestly baffling to me how these threads aren't peppered with what I would think to be well-justified skepticism when it comes to Google and their ambitious hardware products. They almost never succeed, period! You never even hear about them most of the time a few months after they get launched, and the only time when you do is when the PR machine is working fast and furious to prop it up (see: Glass). So sure, let's all pretend that wearing a pair of underwear on your face stuffed with a cell phone is going to advance VR. Yeah. That seems totally plausible.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- Kiro 10y ago
  > but it's honestly baffling to me how these threads aren't peppered with what I would think to be well-justified skepticism Are we visiting the same site? I see nothing but negativity in threads about Google.
  - brazzledazzle 10y ago
    I thought it was a rule on HN that every thread about Google must have at least one complaint about reader.
- suyash 10y ago
  Very well written criticism. I agree with most points you made specially the fact that if google wants VR to go main stream and really cares about users it should have put more emphasis in Cardboard which works for all phones including iPhone. Putting more emphasis on proprietary headset and phone shows only one reason behind this move - they want to make $$ selling Phones and VR headsets.
flippyhead 10y ago
I like the name anyhow.
ftrflyr 10y ago
Bring back the View-Master! I personally would never buy something that I have to strap around my head. Remember those things called helmets? Even today, it is a struggle to get both kids and adults to where them. I think these companies are completely missing the mark about VR. I would use a View Master over Oculus, Google, etc.
- radiorental 10y ago
  They did bring back the viewmaster(vr) https://www.amazon.com/View-Master-Virtual-Reality-Starter-Pack/dp/B011EG5HJ2 https://www.amazon.com/View-Master-Virtual-Reality-Starter-P... It's pretty darn good. No strap too.
  - ftrflyr 10y ago
    No way!
    - thebouv 10y ago
      Yep! Works pretty nice actually, even with an iPhone 6. The classic ViewMaster lever is there too, but it allows you to "click" the screen. It's fun.
- bdjewkes 10y ago
  I can assure you that both the View-Master and helmets are still around. If you don't want to strap something to your head, then great: don't (although I really do recommend wearing a helmet while biking). Cardboard does fill the low-end 'view-master-like' niche, but until the display technology gets a lot smaller, strapping something to your head is the most practical solution.
- jefffoster 10y ago
  There's a view master by Mattel already based on Cardboard. Love the retro look. See http://www.view-master.com/en-us http://www.view-master.com/en-us.
hoodoof 10y ago
The "phone on the face" approach to VR is a solid one, but it's going to be Apple that makes it work and owns it because they control the ecosystem. VR needs low end alternatives and "phone on the face" is it. From what I have read, Samsung's POTF device actually works quite well. Manufacturers such as Apple will see it as appealing because it gives incentive to buy new and more powerful phones. Google's POTF likely won't succeed (mind you it might have if they had more control over the fragmented Android ecosystem), but Apple's POTF, when it is announced, will be the winner in this category. Were you wondering why the new audio port on the iPhone 7? That's the VR POTF port.
- imtringued 10y ago
  For clarification POTF = phone on the face
fredliu 10y ago
Sigh, kinda disappointed given all the hype and secrecy around this, and makes me doubt the near future of VR (I have a Vive, and was a believer until this point). For VR to really take off, we do need a "good enough" experience for the mass while letting the Vives driving the leading edge. Cardboard was clearly not good enough (otherwise it would have taken off by itself already), Daydream (with Pixel phone) just seems like a polished version of cardboard, but still not good enough: actually, is it in anyway better than cardboard towards the direction of Vive? Slightly higher resolution? A little bit more comfortable, maybe easier to setup, and that's it? How about 6 degree of freedom, more precise controller tracking? at least 1K per eye resolution? Just wish Daydream won't kill VR by over-marketing it and fails to deliver. If that happens, it may take another decade for VR to come back.
- msabalau 10y ago
  To drive adoption, you need an app that people want to use over over, not just marvel at, or play for a couple of hours. It seems personal big screen video content has the chance to be that breakthrough app, and daydream seems a lot cozier than cardboard for long term interaction. Good for plane trips, commuter rail, ect. Besides, it seems likely that Playstation VR will have the marketing spend which will drive awareness of consumer VR in the coming months.
- drzaiusapelord 10y ago
  >For VR to really take off, we do need a "good enough" experience for the mass Says who? VR has the Vive, the Oculus, and soon the PSVR. Later it will have an Xbox headset. So you have the PC and consoles all supporting games. Exactly what else do you need? As a vive owner I don't understand why people think there's this natural market demand to have these in every pocket and every home. They are specialist devices. Most people aren't drawn to VR, even if it was made super simple and super cheap. This is like saying the Fallout series is a failure because its not on mobile. We need to stop this mobile-centric thinking. Mobile has its own use cases. Its not a universal thing.
  - fredliu 10y ago
    > Most people aren't drawn to VR. That's an interesting observation, especially from a Vive owner. From my limited experiences, everyone I showed Vive to was blown away by it (demo ranges from teenagers to non-techie adults), and definitely wanted to use it more, the only problems for them to have one of their own immediately are 1) price point, 2) setup complexity. On the contrary, Cardboard users responses were lukewarm in general. Regarding VR for the mass, I see it as a new content consumption platform, the fact that it's mostly for games right now doesn't mean it'll stay in that way. Isn't introducing/promoting VR for the mass exactly what Daydream is intended for? Otherwise I'm not sure why Google is interested in pushing a platform just for a niche market.
missing_cipher 10y ago
Offtopic, but man that hero image is huge. 1.3MB https://tinypng.com/site/output/8skfp6sngbse0pou.jpg/home-hero.jpg https://tinypng.com/site/output/8skfp6sngbse0pou.jpg/home-he... << -41% 551 KB total
bmacauley 10y ago
Would it be possible to use Google Pixel as a personal high resolution monitor? 2560 x 1440 is the equivalent of a 27 inch monitor...if you wore it as a headset, how big would the monitor equivalent be? 50"? If I could attach this to my Mac and use the headset instead of hunching over a 15" laptop, I'd be very happy!
- ilogik 10y ago
  Like this? http://store.steampowered.com/app/382110/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/382110/
  - bmacauley 10y ago
    No...forget the VR How about it's just a 2560 x 1440 screen in a headset? Would be great for coding without the neck pain
    - estel 10y ago
      You'd have eye strain from focusing on such a nearby object. In the headset itself each eye would only see half the screen.
    - loader 10y ago
      You loose half the resolution since each eye needs to be looking at the same thing. Second since you're looking at it in stereo you need to have the desktop a decent enough distance away from you to be able to focus on it or you'd go cross eyed. I think this is what causes the effective resolution to drop to that much lower level.
    - dragonwriter 10y ago
      Starting with a 2560x1440 mobile device, you'd need to get a very different head mount -- with a larger distance from the eyes to the screen for the same device -- to make that a useful 2560x1440 screen for coding or other non-stereo "flat" work vs. a pair of 1280x1440 screens for stereo 3D work. The latter is what you get from a phone-in-a-box VR displays with a 2560x1440 phone display. Now, there might be a use for stereo 3D displays in programming, but I don't think anyone's developed and proven the tools that demonstrate this use.
Animats 10y ago
Is there position tracking? Or is this just for watching 3D movies?
- FLGMwt 10y ago
  There's rotational tracking (look up, down, left, right), but not position tracking (moving head from side to side, walking). The Remote apparently has positional and rotational tracking though, which is new to mobile VR. The application space is roughly the same as that of Cardboard and Oculus/Samsung GearVR. Which I'd say is roughly split between videos, 3D game-like experiences, and games.
- haydenlee 10y ago
  No positional tracking, only rotational. That being said you can still play 3D games too.
ececconi 10y ago
I'm on an airplane twice a week. It would be awesome to have this and watch movies on it. A personal isolation device.
- rbosinger 10y ago
  This is one of the only practical uses for everyday non-techie people I've been able to come up with for these phone-based VR systems (like GearVR). It could also apply to college kids living in small dorms and such. I can't see my mom buying anything like this and strapping it to her head while sitting contently in a huge suburban house. Then again, I never thought I'd see her using an iPad, iPhone and messing with a SmartTV at the same time...
  - 72deluxe 10y ago
    I agree with you. The difference with the iPad and a smart TV is that they are comparable to "normal" activities (like reading a book, and watching TV). The interaction with the items hasn't changed, just the way it is presented and the control of it (eg the TV remote has more buttons now). With this, it is an entirely different scenario. You can no longer hear things (telephone, door bell, someone shouting for help). The iPad and smart TV do not stop interaction with other humans. This does. It's about as attractive as being in a room full of people at a party and a moody teenager (not saying all are BTW) sitting resting their face on their fist with earphones in, staring at their phone. It's just not social. I do not see this becoming mainstream, despite the excitement from the tech community (and those who enjoy isolating themselves, or perhaps us developers who are perfectly happy to sit in a room with others in silence, typing). We devs are normally seen as odd - admin staff at work say "the developers don't ever talk!!"; this will only exacerbate the problem. So, although some of us may enjoy sitting in a room with a device strapped to their face to the chagrin of those around us, I can't see it being socially acceptable.
- tuxracer 10y ago
  Got stuck in the middle seat for a 14 hour flight to Asia. Put the GearVR on and was transported into a full empty row to myself https://www.instagram.com/p/BDkY2oqzLZV/ https://www.instagram.com/p/BDkY2oqzLZV/. It was truly incredible. The 2D in VR experiences (movies, games displayed on a giant flat screen) are way under appreciated.
wehadfun 10y ago
For most people the best use for these googles is being able to a watch 60 inch TV when other wise you couldn't. Headphones have a similar use of letting you play a stereo when other wise you couldn't.
- kbaker 10y ago
  60 inch?! You could be (virtually) in the stands at the game!
  - wehadfun 10y ago
    Unless the person sitting next to you is hot, why would you care about virtually being in the stands?
  - MollyR 10y ago
    this could be a killer app in america.
6stringmerc 10y ago
I do like the notion of comfort the fabric provides. Seems portable. I used to commute by bus, approx 45 minutes each way. I don't think I would've used this on that trip. Extending that, I don't think I'd be particularly interested in using this at home, as infrequently as I genuinely plop down for an immersive HDTV (or 3D) experience (ex. football games & films are my draw, not very often). I just giggle a bit to myself thinking what I'd look like wearing one and bobbing my head around in public or at home. Heh.
- ryandamm 10y ago
  Yeah, we all saw how Glass went over. Perhaps this is made out of cloth so aggressive bystanders don't cut their fists on it when they punch you in the face?
pitchups 10y ago
Really disappointed that it does not support the current line of Google phones - in particular the Nexus 6P. At least it is not listed as officially supported on the website - which only lists the Pixel: https://vr.google.com/daydream/phones/ https://vr.google.com/daydream/phones/
- izacus 10y ago
  Daydream SDK currently only works on Nexus 6P, but comes with this warning: > Caution: The 6P's thermal performance is not representative of the consumer Daydream-ready devices that will be launching later this year. In particular, expect the 6P to thermally throttle CPU and GPU performance after a short period of use, depending on workload. It seems that it's a hardware issue.
  - pitchups 10y ago
    That is precisely the problem - the 6P was touted as the best top-of-the-line Android phone when it was launched - just a year ago. And now, it is "not representative of the consumer Daydream-ready devices that will be launching later this year". So while Pixel is ready for daydream VR today, it very well might not work at all with the next big thing that Google announces in a year or six months..
    - icelancer 10y ago
      Yeah, I'm pretty peeved. I have a Nexus 6P and seeing that Daydream doesn't support it (unless I root it and turn off the thermal throttling perhaps?) is absurd.
    - jptman 10y ago
      What's the alternative? Not announce new features that won't perform well on current hardware? If details emerge that they could have made the 6P perform well but chose not to, that's something to be disappointed about, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
      - 10y ago
pasbesoin 10y ago
Prediction: Someone's going to put two cameras into a phone and do pupil tracking. Or, can programmatic analysis get by with one? P.S. For bonus points, add pupil dilation measurement for emotional analysis. And bloodflow including respiration (perhaps in conjunction with periodic micro-movement). Maybe three cameras? More?
fbreduc 10y ago
its called going outside, people developing this stuff should try it sometime
altonzheng 10y ago
I wonder if there's specific hardware needed to make a phone Daydream enabled or if it's just to draw people to the Pixel/future Android phones.
Eliezer 10y ago
Will there ever be a VR option for those of us who still wear glasses?
- Kapura 10y ago
  The guy introducing the product specifically called out that the daydream headset fits over glasses
spullara 10y ago
Mobile VR makes little sense to me except potentially on airplanes. AR on the other hand...
fjabre 10y ago
VR is the future but still distant IMHO when the headsets are this big. As it turns out it's not that comfortable wearing a screen on your face. This looks more like lipstick on a pig than the future of VR.
locusm 10y ago
That carpeted look reminds me of my carpeted Holden VR Commodore dashboard. Is there an Aussie on the team?
noonespecial 10y ago
Off topic, but e-gads Google, 3mb and 13 seconds to load? Glad I didn't do that on my phone.
jtl999 10y ago
I hope the Pixel phone screens don't have PWM flicker, because of being AMOLED. I wish flicker free VR existed.
fudged71 10y ago
I hate to say it but... this would really be great with a set of wireless earbuds.
markingram 10y ago
Boring... They are just trying to sell their pixel phone... Seriously, haven't seen one great hardware product from Google.
- 72deluxe 10y ago
  I was disappointed they didn't announce a merging of Chrome OS and Android, and a full-blown "proper" laptop running a local OS to compete with Windows/OSX. This may sound far-fetched, but given how many apps they have for their platform(s), it would be a good move. I am not keen to buy a Chrome OS laptop (why do I need permanent internet connectivity? microcomputers negated the need for a mainframe...), but one that runs its own local OS that can operate independently of a remote system (like many Android apps that save locally, then sync periodically) would be good.
iplaw 10y ago
The press release says that they play nice with lots of devices ... but then list only one device. The Google Pixel. Which isn't even available. Where's the iPhone app and compatibility?
asimuvPR 10y ago
The important thing to consider is that VR is a new medium. Google's new VR offering ties in with the most recent communication tool we've had: the smartphone. Using the Pixel to onboard users into VR is a very smart move. It makes the technology accessible in a non-threatening way. Will it succeed? I don't know. It will, however, bring VR closer to being mainstream. We don't know how VR and smartphones being combined will play out in the long run. Not combining to find out would be foolish.
kartickv 10y ago
What are the hardware requirements? I've seen only vague talk about low-persistence displays, high performance CPUs and GPUs and sensors. How low should the persistence be? What FPS? Is there any specific level of performance required from CPUs and GPUs, like a specific number on a benchmark or a particular Qualcomm processor?
lorenzorhoades 10y ago
The only thing I could honestly see myself using this for is reading. I don't see much use for VR outside gaming. The movie going experience is already pleasant enough that i don't really see myself transferring from that model. Home watching movies is always a semi-social experience for me as well, but I feel as though putting on this mask, and having to coordinate with your partner when to start the movie, kind of takes away the whole point of watching a movie. From a business perspective VR is way to obvious of a field for any one company to get a strong hold on one corner of the market. It will take some serious technology or innovation to break through and i've sat here for the last 20 minutes trying to think what that would look like and I can't come up with a single idea besides maybe having a patented solution to the motion sickness problem. Even then, it's highly unlikely that one company will win out in this market like apple did with the iphone. That being said, i'm glad google is creating competition in this space, even though i believe it will end in a net loss. Making the platform depedent on a new phone might be good for the phone, but i think they are ensuring that the plateform itself loses. Maybe if they made the field of vision adjustable, so that every phone could be used with it, this VR would have a much larger market. Also, they could still push their new phone by saying " You think the VR experience is great with your iPhone? try this new phone that is specifically built for the VR, oh, and by the way, it's much better than the iPhone in all these areas, why not give it a shot?"
jpkeisala 10y ago
I just wonder if VR is ever going to be for the big masses. Right now it feels like 3D Television. Everyone is pushing it and I admit it's nice like 3D television is nice.
_pmf_ 10y ago
As much as VR pundits may hate it, if VR will succeed (as in: used by a broad audience), it will be in this way rather than as dedicated device. That is, if Google actually supports these APIs and does not throw early dev adopters under the bus (I fear this will happen, though). Like it or not, but Apple will have to make a move.
psandersen 10y ago
I really wish the mobile VR platform could also be run as a low latency wireless display for a decent PC. Seems like it could get many more PC gamers to try VR (already own phone, pc, just spend $80 on headset), and cement Daydream in as the baseline platform. There are were rumours of sufficiently low latency and cost effective wireless display tech 6 months ago so it should be feasible. Such a partnership could be in both Google and Valves interest, really good counter to Occulus/Facebook too.
estefan 10y ago
They should stop beating about the bush and just work directly with the industry that drives this sort of adoption: pronogrpahers

493 points by madmax108 10y ago

This somehow remind me of Playstation home (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Home https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Home) which was a neat concept but never quite gained the momentum.

gberger 10y ago

The Harry Potter exclusive is gonna be huge.

Robby2023 10y ago
Do you have more info about that?
- Desustorm 10y ago
  It's a VR exclusive version of "Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them" where you are a wizard (and therefore have a wand, too) and explore the Harry Potter universe.
- om42 10y ago
  They talked about it earlier during the live stream. Looked like a unique experience from "Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them" where you're a wizard.
  - ericjang 10y ago
    "you're a wizard" Say no more. Take my money.
watty 10y ago
I don't know, if it's similar to any of the GearVR demos I've tried it'll be a neat 10 minute or so of excitement, nothing more.
ashark 10y ago
Maybe this isn't true—and maybe it'll go over well even if it is—but the video they showed made it look like a cheap hidden object game.

NathanKP 10y ago

I think the approach of giving it a fabric look and feel will be huge for the non techy consumer market appeal. This device looks like something that I can put on and relax on the couch with. The other VR headsets I've seen are much more of a "strap this hard plastic gadget to your head" feel.

teej 10y ago
Where did you get this info from? The link posted only has a line drawing rendering of the device.
- lallysingh 10y ago
  http://live.arstechnica.com/googles-104-pixel-event/ http://live.arstechnica.com/googles-104-pixel-event/ has a live-stream of the event.
  - teej 10y ago
    Thanks. For others interested, here's a picture: http://live.arstechnica.com/googles-104-pixel-event/images/IMG_0202.JPG http://live.arstechnica.com/googles-104-pixel-event/images/I...
- kyrra 10y ago
  On the google store now too: https://store.google.com/product/daydream_view https://store.google.com/product/daydream_view
haydenlee 10y ago
Should be noted that the Oculus Rift is also made of fabric but agreed that it is a great idea, and unique in the mobile VR space.
- NathanKP 10y ago
  The difference is Google Daydream is really making the fabric texture very, very obvious. It almost looks like a soft American Apparel tshirt or something like that: http://i.imgur.com/F2iR3nm.png http://i.imgur.com/F2iR3nm.png On the other hand in Oculus marketing the surface doesn't even look like fabric: http://i.imgur.com/UnRJndA.png http://i.imgur.com/UnRJndA.png

kyledrake 10y ago

A proprietary VR framework for a specific flavor of mobile phone with inadequate displays that will make people want to vomit if they try to use it for any serious amount of time. Wonderful. God forbid we come together on WebVR instead of turning the VR space into yet another "monopolies punching eachother" not-invented-here pit fight.

watty 10y ago
I've got a GearVR with Galaxy S6 and the display is adequate. Not one of the 6 or so people I've let try it have wanted to vomit. No one is stopping you from running with your own WebVR platform, my guess is that it's not an easy thing to make money off of (which is what Google does).
- kyledrake 10y ago
  > I've got a GearVR with Galaxy S6 and the display is adequate. Not one of the 6 or so people I've let try it have wanted to vomit. Try using it for an hour or more. Keep a toilet handy. > No one is stopping you from running with your own WebVR platform, my guess is that it's not an easy thing to make money off of (which is what Google does). It's fun to pretend this is a passive thing that doesn't hurt the rest of the industry, but they've cannibalized talented people for this project that were previously working on WebVR. So I'm sorry if I'm not all that jazzed about torturing developers for the next 10 years with several shitty proprietary SDKs for doing VR development that won't work with eachother, when we could have a standard we can all come together and agree on and that runs on every device and platform with the same code. Have we seriously learned nothing from mobile phone competing SDKs and proprietary app stores nightmare?
  - fixermark 10y ago
    I think what we've learned from the past several years in game development is "Let Unity paper over the SDK differences, and if you need to rip apart the engine, hire a subcontracting game dev studio to port your stuff to other architectures."
  - 10y ago

metafunctor 10y ago

There is very little information on the page. Am I missing something, or is there more information somewhere else?

umeshunni 10y ago
The livestream of the Google hardware event had some more details (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4y0KOeXViI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4y0KOeXViI) The event is still going one (but discussing other products)
kakali 10y ago
Here's some more information from the company blog: https://www.blog.google/products/google-vr/daydream-bringing-high-quality-vr-everyone/ https://www.blog.google/products/google-vr/daydream-bringing...

davesque 10y ago

I like how Google is trying to bring VR into everyone's home. However, how accurate can the head movement tracking actually be without some kind of external tracker? I'm sure there must be some perceptible drift between the actual position of your head and the tracked position.

dindresto 10y ago
I've been suspicious as well about that at first, but after having tried Google Cardboard myself on a OnePlus 3, I was surprised by how accurate accelerometer powered head tracking worked. I'm sure there are specific cases that aren't covered by this level of accuracy, but overall, it works perfectly fine.
- hashhar 10y ago
  It's not just accelerometer, the gyroscope is what makes it so stable. The gyroscope combined with the accelerometer and the compass is able to accurately find your relative motion in 3D space without any external references (just the initial point) using simple physics. But yes it also drifts but very slowly.
  - davesque 10y ago
    I wonder if there's any way to periodically compensate for the drift, such as with video information taken from the camera or something like that? Seems like it should be possible to do this.
wwwtyro 10y ago
Yeah, it's an important point. There's two primary aspects to head tracking - translational motion and rotational motion. Tracking rotation can be done pretty cheaply & with low latency these days, and I expect the Daydream viewer will probably handle it quite well. Translation is quite a bit more challenging, and I'm not expecting much in that department for this iteration. The issue can be addressed to some degree with a neck model that maps rotation to translation, but it can't handle real translation, such as leaning or walking around. This is on par with Oculus/Samsung's current mobile solution, the Gear VR headset.

rnernento 10y ago

Just what VR needs, another slightly different platform...

lallysingh 10y ago
Until something sticks in the market, it's good to have a variety of products. The differences for software devs are essentially some camera projection settings and tolerances to sensor error.

jimrandomh 10y ago

Does this offer any advancements over the Oculus/Samsung GearVR? Given that they're launching a full year after Oculus, I would hope for something more than a direct clone.

pen2l 10y ago
Yes, a lot of things. But most significantly, the auto calibration and focusing. (Currently, if you have a VR headset and want to use it with a phone, you have to go through a painstaking process of making sure the phone is in the dead center. Sometimes even when you have centered it, it can get a little bit off if you shake the phone really hard or whatever... and then you get headheaches if it's not properly aligned). This is a pretty big deal in my view. Other than that, the whole integrated environment and the new joystick-like interface thing is a pretty big deal too.
- soylentcola 10y ago
  Plus isn't the GearVR limited to specific Samsung phones? The Daydream headset seems more like a nicer version of cardboard in that it's a "dumb" headset and the phone does all the work. Ordered a Pixel to upgrade my Nexus 5 but not buying the headset so I guess I'll find out when I plop it into my Cardboard headset to test it out.
  - phairoh 10y ago
    If you preordered a Pixel from Google's site you'll receive a promo code for the headset in a few weeks.
  - MikusR 10y ago
    Daydream is limited to specific Daydream certified phones.
- lux 10y ago
  That's only compared to Cardboard though. Gear VR locks the phone in place, so there's no calibration step. Gear VR also has a focus wheel, which while not perfect, does let you hand it to a friend who can adjust it to their vision. Not as good as just putting glasses inside, but glasses come in lots of sizes, and I'm sceptical of claims to be glasses-friendly, which so far haven't proven to be the case (Vive, Rift, and Gear are far from it).

chadlavi 10y ago

so you have to buy their new phone to use this? cross this off my list then.

fma 10y ago
Haven't seen then say it...but if it's just a fancy version of the Google Cardboard...Google Cardboard supports many phones. Edit: Clicked the link (my knowledge was from other PR) and looks like it's only for pixel
- chadlavi 10y ago
  Yeah. The only reason I say this is because their "supported phones" link just links to the Pixel. They're not outright saying it only works on that device, but that does sort of imply it. The headset must be device agnostic, I'd imagine, put whatever fits in there. But the Daydream software might be walled off.
  - jdietrich 10y ago
    Any manufacturer can produce a Daydream-ready phone; ZTE and Asus have already announced theirs. To ensure a good experience, Daydream-ready phones must meet a set of minimum standards. They need consistent performance, low motion-to-photon latency and Android N. Google don't want to harm the Daydream brand by opening it up to phones that won't provide a good VR experience. I wouldn't expect many people to upgrade their phones purely for Daydream, but it may be a factor when their contract is up for renewal. Daydream compatibility is attractive to phone manufacturers who are struggling to differentiate their handsets or offer a compelling reason to choose a high-end device.
kyrra 10y ago
"Requirements: A Daydream-ready smartphone, like Pixel" Pixel is the only one for sale I believe that is Daydream ready, but more are on their way from other manufacturers. ex: ZTE Axon 7 and Asus Zenfone 3 Deluxe[0]. [0] http://www.androidauthority.com/google-daydream-vr-ready-phones-705245/ http://www.androidauthority.com/google-daydream-vr-ready-pho...

erikpukinskis 10y ago

All I want for Christmas is mobile positional tracking. Leap Motion. John Carmack. Google Tango. ZED. Who will be The One? Who will get positional tracking into a phone or headset? Edit: In my fantasy world Carmack is teaching himself chip design and will put a low power positional tracking computer vision ASIC in the next GearVR. Why Oculus isn't putting the full force of their company behind that National Treasure of a man I have no idea.

rawnlq 10y ago
There's something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbkwew3bfWU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbkwew3bfWU
- erikpukinskis 10y ago
  Yah! Add it to the list of dev kits. My question is who gets it integrated a phone or headset first so it can have widespread adoption?

johansch 10y ago

So, just to set expectations: All of the big SV companies need to have a VR play and this is Google's. Personally I believe in the long-term viability of VR, but in this case it just seems like an expendable just-in-case-it-takes-off thing. / Feeling slightly burned from them more or less abandoning the last Google hardware I bought; the Nexus Player tv set-top-box.

asenna 10y ago

Does anyone know if the headset is supported by the Nexus 6P? The 6P is a very capable device and I don't see a reason to upgrade mine. But I am thinking of trying out some Daydream VR development. I know that till now, 6P was the only device to develop for Daydream, but I'm wondering how well would it work with the actual headset released today. Maybe just run at some low fps but not too bad for trying it out? Or is the headset locked for only "Daydream certified" phones (I doubt they'll lock out the 6P though).

sxp 10y ago
From https://developers.google.com/vr/daydream/dev-kit-setup https://developers.google.com/vr/daydream/dev-kit-setup "Caution: The 6P's thermal performance is not representative of the consumer Daydream-ready devices that will be launching later this year. In particular, expect the 6P to thermally throttle CPU and GPU performance after a short period of use, depending on workload."
- daveloyall 10y ago
  Sounds like a home-made heatsink could increase performance for that device. And based on the photos of Daydream, I'd say there's room to install one... I think getting good heat transfer connectivity might be tough (does that device get hot on the front or back?) and weight might be a problem.
  - asenna 10y ago
    Having played with some VR apps on it, gets hot on the back

eridius 10y ago

So if I'm understanding this correctly, this is basically a productized Google Cardboard?

corysama 10y ago
The difference between some random Android device running a Cardboard app vs a Samsung Gear VR running a Gear VR app is night-and-day. Daydream certified phones and apps should be about as good as Gear VR. We'll see if it's a little better/worse/same soon.
shams93 10y ago
No daydream has a whole set of new standards in terms of features and performance a phone has to meet to be labeled "daydream ready."
tree_of_item 10y ago
More like Google Cardboard was a toy Daydream. As in, Daydream was always the intention, but some hackers did a quick proof of concept in cardboard and it kinda took off.
- 1_2__3 10y ago
  Daydream is still a toy. It's just a fabric toy instead of a cardboard one.
dghughes 10y ago
Face bra.
joezydeco 10y ago
I thought the Viewmaster VR was a nice productized Google Cardboard. https://www.amazon.com/View-Master-Virtual-Reality-Starter-Pack/dp/B011EG5HJ2 https://www.amazon.com/View-Master-Virtual-Reality-Starter-P...
- thebouv 10y ago
  My daughter and I bought this and really liked it. Meant to try and build a simple VR demo with it, but we never got around to it. She drifted away from programming and more into art. Maybe she'll come back around again.

nickysielicki 10y ago

When they say, "take a look at the devices designed and built for virtual reality", and the only device is the new Pixel, I have to wonder if this means that the Pixel has a display with an unusually high refresh rate or resolution, or if Google just really wants to kill the ecosystem before it begins with needless exclusivity.

pmontra 10y ago

Strange that weight is missing from the spec. You want the lightest phone stuck to your head.

rtkwe 10y ago
Most of the weight will be whatever phone you slot into it most likely. And absolute weight isn't as important as it being properly supported. The difference between the Vive headset properly and poorly adjusted to your head is night and day.

macandcheese 10y ago

Is nobody concerned about basically staring into a cell phone 2 inches in front of their eyeballs?

SonicSoul 10y ago
it's even closer when you talk on it. But i agree we don't need any more reasons to hold it so close to your head.
- MBCook 10y ago
  I think the GP meant more along the lines of "Focusing at 1.5" for a long period of time" not "holding electronics near my head for extended periods".
  - macandcheese 10y ago
    I actually meant maybe we shouldn't be holding a heat and RF-emitting screen two inches from our eyeballs. My phone gets hot when streaming a lot of music - I can only imagine how hot it gets while using all that processing power to run a VR program!
    - MBCook 10y ago
      Oh. I've hear of GearVR shutting down mid-use due to heat (at least on older phones when it was new).
tbassetto 10y ago
Only if it's a Galaxy Note 7.
Sargos 10y ago
Not really. Your eyes are focusing into the distance. It's not really "2 inches away" when you are looking at it.
- 10y ago

Sir_Cmpwn 10y ago

I'm sick of phones as the basis for VR. I tried Cardboard, it has real problems. The battery life is bad when you're doing 3D things, the phone gets very hot on your face, and the GPU is underpowered for pretty much every purpose including rendering a realistic enough scene for VR immersion.

krastanov 10y ago
To counter: VR on the smartphone is great for visualizing preprocessed data. I love being able to view 3D research data on a comparatively cheap device and that I can share the visualization with everybody that has a phone, not only labs that have decided that it is worth it to buy a dedicated headset. Moreover, setup of the Cardboard is trivial compared to other headsets (no matter how easy it might be, you can not beat "just launch this youtube video").
- thearn4 10y ago
  Out of curiosity what sort of data and data visualization strategies would VR be particularly well suited for over more traditional visualization methods?
  - krastanov 10y ago
    A good pitch would be: Medical diagnostics/pathology professionals are really exited about VR as (according to those I have spoken to) the 2D presentation of 3D data impedes making precise diagnosis (which VR solves).
  - imtringued 10y ago
    Displaying the result of a CT scan maybe?
    - thearn4 10y ago
      Medicine does seem like a good possibility, though I'm not very familiar with the problem space.

knodi123 10y ago

They should make a shorter list of just exactly how it's different from cardboard.

SonicSoul 10y ago

its interesting how wildly different these big companies are when it comes to product delivery. Apple will not say a word until they are ready to ship. Google will announce way in advance so their developers don't have much choice but to ship. "done but buggy > perfect". I suppose release dates get delayed often. Not sure which approach is better.

ucaetano 10y ago

I like the inspiration for it: not a hard game controller, but a sleeping mask. That's actually a good insight.

miles_matthias 10y ago

I'm excited about VR, but strapping your phone to your face doesn't seem like the best approach.

rtkwe 10y ago
It's not, but it's not meant to be. It's a place for more people to get to experience it because it's still way cheaper than buying the current best solution Vive + a gaming system capable of running it then get excited for the Vive or Oculus 2+ in a few years when the specs to run them are easier and maybe we can fit the positional tracking onto the headset instead of requiring lighthouses.
- rbosinger 10y ago
  Totally. This is the early adopter "Sure I'll blow $100 on this toy along with my new phone" kind of stuff. People that get these kind of things now will show friends. They'll get excited. Those friends will buy into VR in droves when the kinks get worked out.

siavosh 10y ago

Have either Google or Oculus addressed any health risks due to cell/wifi as a result of holding a phone close to your face for extended periods?

Filligree 10y ago
The consensus is that there aren't any.
asciimo 10y ago
I think there would need to be evidence that holding a cell/wifi chose to your face causes health problems. This is what the American Cancer Society thinks, if you trust them: http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancercauses/othercarcinogens/athome/cellular-phones http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancercauses/othercarcinogens/a...
- macandcheese 10y ago
  From that ACS page you linked to > "The study found increased (although still low) risks of these tumors in male rats exposed to RF radiation, although there was no increased risk among female rats." > "There was again a suggestion of a possible increased risk in the 10% of people who used their cell phones the most, but this was hard to interpret because some people reported implausibly high cell phone use, as well as other issues." > "Some studies have found a possible link. For example, several studies published by the same research group in Sweden have reported an increased risk of tumors on the side of the head where the cell phone was held, particularly with 10 or more years of use." > "A recent small study in people has shown that cell phones may also have some other effects on the brain, although it’s not clear if they’re harmful. The study found that when people had an active cell phone held up to their ear for 50 minutes, brain tissues on the same side of the head as the phone used more glucose than did tissues on the other side of the brain." How can people dismiss this as not worrying? How can people bring these concerns into discourse without being labeled a Luddite?

kmonad 10y ago

This could be straight out of the show 'silicon valley'. Gorgeous polar lights as the background of a sleek landing page, a strange but appealing geometric structure hovering between dark outlines of trees --> scrolling down, a pair of diving goggles are revealed that you can use to stick your phone into. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited and it's probably going to be cool, it's just hilariously stereotypical.

bduerst 10y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZB2s3-Q15s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZB2s3-Q15s

1_2__3 10y ago

So a slightly more production-ready version of cardboard, but requires a specific phone that not one customer has yet. When do we stop buying into the Google product hype? How many other chase-the-rabbit approaches to products is Google going to shove in front of our faces before we realize it's almost all smoke and mirrors? It seems completely laughable to me that this "product" will even exist past 2017, let alone be any kind of leader in anything (innovation, market share, creating a new market space, etc.). I know jaded cynicism is never attractive, but it's honestly baffling to me how these threads aren't peppered with what I would think to be well-justified skepticism when it comes to Google and their ambitious hardware products. They almost never succeed, period! You never even hear about them most of the time a few months after they get launched, and the only time when you do is when the PR machine is working fast and furious to prop it up (see: Glass). So sure, let's all pretend that wearing a pair of underwear on your face stuffed with a cell phone is going to advance VR. Yeah. That seems totally plausible.

deleted 10y ago
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Kiro 10y ago
> but it's honestly baffling to me how these threads aren't peppered with what I would think to be well-justified skepticism Are we visiting the same site? I see nothing but negativity in threads about Google.
- brazzledazzle 10y ago
  I thought it was a rule on HN that every thread about Google must have at least one complaint about reader.
suyash 10y ago
Very well written criticism. I agree with most points you made specially the fact that if google wants VR to go main stream and really cares about users it should have put more emphasis in Cardboard which works for all phones including iPhone. Putting more emphasis on proprietary headset and phone shows only one reason behind this move - they want to make $$ selling Phones and VR headsets.

flippyhead 10y ago

I like the name anyhow.

ftrflyr 10y ago

Bring back the View-Master! I personally would never buy something that I have to strap around my head. Remember those things called helmets? Even today, it is a struggle to get both kids and adults to where them. I think these companies are completely missing the mark about VR. I would use a View Master over Oculus, Google, etc.

radiorental 10y ago
They did bring back the viewmaster(vr) https://www.amazon.com/View-Master-Virtual-Reality-Starter-Pack/dp/B011EG5HJ2 https://www.amazon.com/View-Master-Virtual-Reality-Starter-P... It's pretty darn good. No strap too.
- ftrflyr 10y ago
  No way!
  - thebouv 10y ago
    Yep! Works pretty nice actually, even with an iPhone 6. The classic ViewMaster lever is there too, but it allows you to "click" the screen. It's fun.
bdjewkes 10y ago
I can assure you that both the View-Master and helmets are still around. If you don't want to strap something to your head, then great: don't (although I really do recommend wearing a helmet while biking). Cardboard does fill the low-end 'view-master-like' niche, but until the display technology gets a lot smaller, strapping something to your head is the most practical solution.
jefffoster 10y ago
There's a view master by Mattel already based on Cardboard. Love the retro look. See http://www.view-master.com/en-us http://www.view-master.com/en-us.

hoodoof 10y ago

The "phone on the face" approach to VR is a solid one, but it's going to be Apple that makes it work and owns it because they control the ecosystem. VR needs low end alternatives and "phone on the face" is it. From what I have read, Samsung's POTF device actually works quite well. Manufacturers such as Apple will see it as appealing because it gives incentive to buy new and more powerful phones. Google's POTF likely won't succeed (mind you it might have if they had more control over the fragmented Android ecosystem), but Apple's POTF, when it is announced, will be the winner in this category. Were you wondering why the new audio port on the iPhone 7? That's the VR POTF port.

imtringued 10y ago
For clarification POTF = phone on the face

fredliu 10y ago

Sigh, kinda disappointed given all the hype and secrecy around this, and makes me doubt the near future of VR (I have a Vive, and was a believer until this point). For VR to really take off, we do need a "good enough" experience for the mass while letting the Vives driving the leading edge. Cardboard was clearly not good enough (otherwise it would have taken off by itself already), Daydream (with Pixel phone) just seems like a polished version of cardboard, but still not good enough: actually, is it in anyway better than cardboard towards the direction of Vive? Slightly higher resolution? A little bit more comfortable, maybe easier to setup, and that's it? How about 6 degree of freedom, more precise controller tracking? at least 1K per eye resolution? Just wish Daydream won't kill VR by over-marketing it and fails to deliver. If that happens, it may take another decade for VR to come back.

msabalau 10y ago
To drive adoption, you need an app that people want to use over over, not just marvel at, or play for a couple of hours. It seems personal big screen video content has the chance to be that breakthrough app, and daydream seems a lot cozier than cardboard for long term interaction. Good for plane trips, commuter rail, ect. Besides, it seems likely that Playstation VR will have the marketing spend which will drive awareness of consumer VR in the coming months.
drzaiusapelord 10y ago
>For VR to really take off, we do need a "good enough" experience for the mass Says who? VR has the Vive, the Oculus, and soon the PSVR. Later it will have an Xbox headset. So you have the PC and consoles all supporting games. Exactly what else do you need? As a vive owner I don't understand why people think there's this natural market demand to have these in every pocket and every home. They are specialist devices. Most people aren't drawn to VR, even if it was made super simple and super cheap. This is like saying the Fallout series is a failure because its not on mobile. We need to stop this mobile-centric thinking. Mobile has its own use cases. Its not a universal thing.
- fredliu 10y ago
  > Most people aren't drawn to VR. That's an interesting observation, especially from a Vive owner. From my limited experiences, everyone I showed Vive to was blown away by it (demo ranges from teenagers to non-techie adults), and definitely wanted to use it more, the only problems for them to have one of their own immediately are 1) price point, 2) setup complexity. On the contrary, Cardboard users responses were lukewarm in general. Regarding VR for the mass, I see it as a new content consumption platform, the fact that it's mostly for games right now doesn't mean it'll stay in that way. Isn't introducing/promoting VR for the mass exactly what Daydream is intended for? Otherwise I'm not sure why Google is interested in pushing a platform just for a niche market.

missing_cipher 10y ago

Offtopic, but man that hero image is huge. 1.3MB https://tinypng.com/site/output/8skfp6sngbse0pou.jpg/home-hero.jpg https://tinypng.com/site/output/8skfp6sngbse0pou.jpg/home-he... << -41% 551 KB total

bmacauley 10y ago

Would it be possible to use Google Pixel as a personal high resolution monitor? 2560 x 1440 is the equivalent of a 27 inch monitor...if you wore it as a headset, how big would the monitor equivalent be? 50"? If I could attach this to my Mac and use the headset instead of hunching over a 15" laptop, I'd be very happy!

ilogik 10y ago
Like this? http://store.steampowered.com/app/382110/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/382110/
- bmacauley 10y ago
  No...forget the VR How about it's just a 2560 x 1440 screen in a headset? Would be great for coding without the neck pain
  - estel 10y ago
    You'd have eye strain from focusing on such a nearby object. In the headset itself each eye would only see half the screen.
  - loader 10y ago
    You loose half the resolution since each eye needs to be looking at the same thing. Second since you're looking at it in stereo you need to have the desktop a decent enough distance away from you to be able to focus on it or you'd go cross eyed. I think this is what causes the effective resolution to drop to that much lower level.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    Starting with a 2560x1440 mobile device, you'd need to get a very different head mount -- with a larger distance from the eyes to the screen for the same device -- to make that a useful 2560x1440 screen for coding or other non-stereo "flat" work vs. a pair of 1280x1440 screens for stereo 3D work. The latter is what you get from a phone-in-a-box VR displays with a 2560x1440 phone display. Now, there might be a use for stereo 3D displays in programming, but I don't think anyone's developed and proven the tools that demonstrate this use.

Animats 10y ago

Is there position tracking? Or is this just for watching 3D movies?

FLGMwt 10y ago
There's rotational tracking (look up, down, left, right), but not position tracking (moving head from side to side, walking). The Remote apparently has positional and rotational tracking though, which is new to mobile VR. The application space is roughly the same as that of Cardboard and Oculus/Samsung GearVR. Which I'd say is roughly split between videos, 3D game-like experiences, and games.
haydenlee 10y ago
No positional tracking, only rotational. That being said you can still play 3D games too.

ececconi 10y ago

I'm on an airplane twice a week. It would be awesome to have this and watch movies on it. A personal isolation device.

rbosinger 10y ago
This is one of the only practical uses for everyday non-techie people I've been able to come up with for these phone-based VR systems (like GearVR). It could also apply to college kids living in small dorms and such. I can't see my mom buying anything like this and strapping it to her head while sitting contently in a huge suburban house. Then again, I never thought I'd see her using an iPad, iPhone and messing with a SmartTV at the same time...
- 72deluxe 10y ago
  I agree with you. The difference with the iPad and a smart TV is that they are comparable to "normal" activities (like reading a book, and watching TV). The interaction with the items hasn't changed, just the way it is presented and the control of it (eg the TV remote has more buttons now). With this, it is an entirely different scenario. You can no longer hear things (telephone, door bell, someone shouting for help). The iPad and smart TV do not stop interaction with other humans. This does. It's about as attractive as being in a room full of people at a party and a moody teenager (not saying all are BTW) sitting resting their face on their fist with earphones in, staring at their phone. It's just not social. I do not see this becoming mainstream, despite the excitement from the tech community (and those who enjoy isolating themselves, or perhaps us developers who are perfectly happy to sit in a room with others in silence, typing). We devs are normally seen as odd - admin staff at work say "the developers don't ever talk!!"; this will only exacerbate the problem. So, although some of us may enjoy sitting in a room with a device strapped to their face to the chagrin of those around us, I can't see it being socially acceptable.
tuxracer 10y ago
Got stuck in the middle seat for a 14 hour flight to Asia. Put the GearVR on and was transported into a full empty row to myself https://www.instagram.com/p/BDkY2oqzLZV/ https://www.instagram.com/p/BDkY2oqzLZV/. It was truly incredible. The 2D in VR experiences (movies, games displayed on a giant flat screen) are way under appreciated.

wehadfun 10y ago

For most people the best use for these googles is being able to a watch 60 inch TV when other wise you couldn't. Headphones have a similar use of letting you play a stereo when other wise you couldn't.

kbaker 10y ago
60 inch?! You could be (virtually) in the stands at the game!
- wehadfun 10y ago
  Unless the person sitting next to you is hot, why would you care about virtually being in the stands?
- MollyR 10y ago
  this could be a killer app in america.

6stringmerc 10y ago

I do like the notion of comfort the fabric provides. Seems portable. I used to commute by bus, approx 45 minutes each way. I don't think I would've used this on that trip. Extending that, I don't think I'd be particularly interested in using this at home, as infrequently as I genuinely plop down for an immersive HDTV (or 3D) experience (ex. football games & films are my draw, not very often). I just giggle a bit to myself thinking what I'd look like wearing one and bobbing my head around in public or at home. Heh.

ryandamm 10y ago
Yeah, we all saw how Glass went over. Perhaps this is made out of cloth so aggressive bystanders don't cut their fists on it when they punch you in the face?

pitchups 10y ago

Really disappointed that it does not support the current line of Google phones - in particular the Nexus 6P. At least it is not listed as officially supported on the website - which only lists the Pixel: https://vr.google.com/daydream/phones/ https://vr.google.com/daydream/phones/

izacus 10y ago
Daydream SDK currently only works on Nexus 6P, but comes with this warning: > Caution: The 6P's thermal performance is not representative of the consumer Daydream-ready devices that will be launching later this year. In particular, expect the 6P to thermally throttle CPU and GPU performance after a short period of use, depending on workload. It seems that it's a hardware issue.
- pitchups 10y ago
  That is precisely the problem - the 6P was touted as the best top-of-the-line Android phone when it was launched - just a year ago. And now, it is "not representative of the consumer Daydream-ready devices that will be launching later this year". So while Pixel is ready for daydream VR today, it very well might not work at all with the next big thing that Google announces in a year or six months..
  - icelancer 10y ago
    Yeah, I'm pretty peeved. I have a Nexus 6P and seeing that Daydream doesn't support it (unless I root it and turn off the thermal throttling perhaps?) is absurd.
  - jptman 10y ago
    What's the alternative? Not announce new features that won't perform well on current hardware? If details emerge that they could have made the 6P perform well but chose not to, that's something to be disappointed about, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
    - 10y ago

pasbesoin 10y ago

Prediction: Someone's going to put two cameras into a phone and do pupil tracking. Or, can programmatic analysis get by with one? P.S. For bonus points, add pupil dilation measurement for emotional analysis. And bloodflow including respiration (perhaps in conjunction with periodic micro-movement). Maybe three cameras? More?

fbreduc 10y ago

its called going outside, people developing this stuff should try it sometime

altonzheng 10y ago

I wonder if there's specific hardware needed to make a phone Daydream enabled or if it's just to draw people to the Pixel/future Android phones.

Eliezer 10y ago

Will there ever be a VR option for those of us who still wear glasses?

Kapura 10y ago
The guy introducing the product specifically called out that the daydream headset fits over glasses

spullara 10y ago

Mobile VR makes little sense to me except potentially on airplanes. AR on the other hand...

fjabre 10y ago

VR is the future but still distant IMHO when the headsets are this big. As it turns out it's not that comfortable wearing a screen on your face. This looks more like lipstick on a pig than the future of VR.

locusm 10y ago

That carpeted look reminds me of my carpeted Holden VR Commodore dashboard. Is there an Aussie on the team?

noonespecial 10y ago

Off topic, but e-gads Google, 3mb and 13 seconds to load? Glad I didn't do that on my phone.

jtl999 10y ago

I hope the Pixel phone screens don't have PWM flicker, because of being AMOLED. I wish flicker free VR existed.

fudged71 10y ago

I hate to say it but... this would really be great with a set of wireless earbuds.

markingram 10y ago

Boring... They are just trying to sell their pixel phone... Seriously, haven't seen one great hardware product from Google.

72deluxe 10y ago
I was disappointed they didn't announce a merging of Chrome OS and Android, and a full-blown "proper" laptop running a local OS to compete with Windows/OSX. This may sound far-fetched, but given how many apps they have for their platform(s), it would be a good move. I am not keen to buy a Chrome OS laptop (why do I need permanent internet connectivity? microcomputers negated the need for a mainframe...), but one that runs its own local OS that can operate independently of a remote system (like many Android apps that save locally, then sync periodically) would be good.

iplaw 10y ago

The press release says that they play nice with lots of devices ... but then list only one device. The Google Pixel. Which isn't even available. Where's the iPhone app and compatibility?

asimuvPR 10y ago

The important thing to consider is that VR is a new medium. Google's new VR offering ties in with the most recent communication tool we've had: the smartphone. Using the Pixel to onboard users into VR is a very smart move. It makes the technology accessible in a non-threatening way. Will it succeed? I don't know. It will, however, bring VR closer to being mainstream. We don't know how VR and smartphones being combined will play out in the long run. Not combining to find out would be foolish.

kartickv 10y ago

What are the hardware requirements? I've seen only vague talk about low-persistence displays, high performance CPUs and GPUs and sensors. How low should the persistence be? What FPS? Is there any specific level of performance required from CPUs and GPUs, like a specific number on a benchmark or a particular Qualcomm processor?

lorenzorhoades 10y ago

The only thing I could honestly see myself using this for is reading. I don't see much use for VR outside gaming. The movie going experience is already pleasant enough that i don't really see myself transferring from that model. Home watching movies is always a semi-social experience for me as well, but I feel as though putting on this mask, and having to coordinate with your partner when to start the movie, kind of takes away the whole point of watching a movie. From a business perspective VR is way to obvious of a field for any one company to get a strong hold on one corner of the market. It will take some serious technology or innovation to break through and i've sat here for the last 20 minutes trying to think what that would look like and I can't come up with a single idea besides maybe having a patented solution to the motion sickness problem. Even then, it's highly unlikely that one company will win out in this market like apple did with the iphone. That being said, i'm glad google is creating competition in this space, even though i believe it will end in a net loss. Making the platform depedent on a new phone might be good for the phone, but i think they are ensuring that the plateform itself loses. Maybe if they made the field of vision adjustable, so that every phone could be used with it, this VR would have a much larger market. Also, they could still push their new phone by saying " You think the VR experience is great with your iPhone? try this new phone that is specifically built for the VR, oh, and by the way, it's much better than the iPhone in all these areas, why not give it a shot?"

jpkeisala 10y ago

I just wonder if VR is ever going to be for the big masses. Right now it feels like 3D Television. Everyone is pushing it and I admit it's nice like 3D television is nice.

_pmf_ 10y ago

As much as VR pundits may hate it, if VR will succeed (as in: used by a broad audience), it will be in this way rather than as dedicated device. That is, if Google actually supports these APIs and does not throw early dev adopters under the bus (I fear this will happen, though). Like it or not, but Apple will have to make a move.

psandersen 10y ago

I really wish the mobile VR platform could also be run as a low latency wireless display for a decent PC. Seems like it could get many more PC gamers to try VR (already own phone, pc, just spend $80 on headset), and cement Daydream in as the baseline platform. There are were rumours of sufficiently low latency and cost effective wireless display tech 6 months ago so it should be feasible. Such a partnership could be in both Google and Valves interest, really good counter to Occulus/Facebook too.

estefan 10y ago

They should stop beating about the bush and just work directly with the industry that drives this sort of adoption: pronogrpahers