28 ms·

Why We Are No Longer Developing for the iPad

406 points by mason240 12y ago

jnem 12y ago
That's too bad, but I do understand the sentiment. Ive been playing Spiderweb software games since I was a kid, and did in fact buy one of the Avernum games for my iPad, which I quite enjoyed (though the graphics were a bit to small, and hard to click on in some places). Still a great source of classic RPG gameplay.
ufmace 12y ago
I wonder if they're still developing for Android, the site and article seem to imply so.
untog 12y ago
I'm interested to know what changed in 8.3 that broke their game engine. It's supposed to be a minor update, after all.
- eridius 12y ago
  So am I. I'm also interested to know why the engine can't be fixed, rather than being forced to replace it with an all-new engine.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - Someone 12y ago
    It might be technically possible or even trivial to fix the engine, but impossible for other reasons. They are talking of licensing a new engine. If they licensed the current one, too, it might just be a matter of a vendor that went out of business or killed the product.
  - teacup50 12y ago
    Not the engine author, but from our app experience: Tracking Apple's breakage (in minor releases, even) and fixing our code -- code that was written to the defined API -- is a cost that is rising precipitously as Apple's quality and stability keeps going down. If you have revenue from other platforms, it can make sense to just say "f it" and drop the platform. The AppStore is a shitty retail pipeline; 30% is a crazy commission for digital software distribution, the single-retailer-monopoly + appstore design is driving prices to unsustainable levels, etc.
- svarrall 12y ago
  Could be tied to the forced 64bit support for iOS apps and updates from June 1st? https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=12172014b https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=12172014b
  - stcredzero 12y ago
    64 bit stuff in iOS 8.3 broke the way we were using 3rd party zip libraries in my iPad project. Before that, it had been completely stable since iOS6. Am now rewriting in Swift and using Storyboard, with xcassets taking the place of zip files.
  - walterbell 12y ago
    That will orphan apps who just want to deliver updates (e.g. app security, unrelated to OS) for older versions of iOS. Orphan apps will need a distribution channel that can reach older and still-useful devices.
- matwood 12y ago
  If the engine was hybrid/webview based, that has been a mess since iOS 8 came out.
- mjquinn 12y ago
  A quick Google search led me to this thread: http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=259228 http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=259228 There are a few reports there of games on Unreal Engine 3 having graphical glitches and performance issues under 8.3. It looks like Unreal Engine 3 is not getting updates anymore[0], so it's possible that UE3 users are stuck. (I don't know if Spiderweb use UE3). [0] https://www.unrealengine.com/previous-versions https://www.unrealengine.com/previous-versions
  - freehunter 12y ago
    I would be very, very surprised if they were using UE3, considering their games haven't seen much of a graphical update since... 1994? Really old school in literally every single way. Think Ultima Online, then take a step back from that. However, I wouldn't be surprised if they suffered from a similar regression.
- izacus 12y ago
  Honestly, Apple sometimes tends to break some fairly important stuff even in the bugfix x.x.1 releases, especially in iOS 7/8 versions which have been... slightly more buggy that we'd like.
- yellowapple 12y ago
  If you're looking for a company to be the poster child of semantic versioning, Apple ain't it :)
- vinceyuan 12y ago
  This one? https://twitter.com/sanjeetsuhag/status/586039564537475072 https://twitter.com/sanjeetsuhag/status/586039564537475072
- osi 12y ago
  More details: http://spiderwebforums.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/21507-avernum-2-hd-for-ipad-canceled/ http://spiderwebforums.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/21507-av... https://twitter.com/spiderwebsoft/status/588809965499850752 https://twitter.com/spiderwebsoft/status/588809965499850752 The tweet states "The deprecation of UIApplication and UIViewController."
freehunter 12y ago
I own a couple of Spiderweb Software games on Windows, and play them on my Windows 8.1 tablet. They almost play like they were made for a touch screen (and they run great on the ancient dual-core Atom and stupidly non-existent video card in my Thinkpad Tablet 2). Actually the only thing I need a keyboard for is if I have selected a magic spell and want to cancel casting it. Then I need to pair my Bluetooth keyboard just to hit the escape key. So, Jeff, let the world know that your games run un-altered on x86-based Windows tablets, even quite old ones. You don't even need to change any of your development processes to target the platform. It's already Windows.
- thechao 12y ago
  I enjoyed the heck out of developing drivers for that thing—it was a constant uphill battle to even get correctness, nonetheless, the pretty decent performance we got. In the end, my tablet's battery died, and it now sits in a drawer, forgotten.
  - freehunter 12y ago
    Drivers for the Tablet 2? Yeah the drivers are awful. Half the drivers I'm using are downloaded from Dell because the Lenovo drivers are useless. Getting to the point where I could have Bluetooth and Wifi connected at the same time was a nightmare. I still use mine, but only when I don't want to start up my PC or something where touch feels more natural, like Hearthstone or Avernum: Escape from the Pit.
SSLy 12y ago
Hugged to death?
hockeybias 12y ago
Can;t blame you a bit...
takasc2 12y ago
I follow Ipad gaming quite closely because it is perfect for my commutes. I would consider myself as close to a hardcore ipad gamer as it is possible to get - I read specialist sites like pockettactics and spend well over a hundred dollars a year on ipad games. I had never heard of this company or its games before. The ipad is a marketing platform in the best and worst way I can mean that. Looking at this company they seem aggressively anti-marketing. Their entire presentation style and format is opposed to the kind of experience the ipad offers. They are the anti-flipboard. The fact that someone as interested in ipad gaming as me was not even aware their games existed until now suggests it is probably not the best platform for them at all.
- Fr0styMatt8 12y ago
  Spiderweb games are very highly regarded RPGs that came from the PC. I definitely know TouchArcade has covered their games a few times over the years.
  - takasc2 12y ago
    I looked up the company on pocket tactics, the site I menioned after I posted this. Infact they have had numerous mentions there as well, but no real detailed coverage, no real follow up. I don't think iPad games journalists are failing to cover companies like this - I think these kinds of companies are so anti-marketing in the presentation and design of their games that they fail to stand out or get noticed even by people like me who might have been looking for this kind of experience. A contrasting company would be someone like inkle's 80 days - that's was an odd iPad game that was hard to sell just on screenshots, but it was marketed brilliantly and had a vision throughout the product that was reflected in taht and the buzz around it was and is huge because of that
    - jblow 12y ago
      You are saying "anti-marketing" but what this really means is that they are putting less investment into production values than you prefer. The whole point is that it is doubtful that they will stay solvent if they put more money into production values on that platform. Nice graphics are very expensive. (They are more expensive than any other aspect of game development, in fact). If it seems unlikely that enough people will buy their game given that type of investment, then it may be a good choice to stay away from that. On top of which, maybe they just don't want to spend all their time doing graphics. Maybe they want to work on the story / world / etc.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
eridius 12y ago
> Competition on the App Store has risen to a frenzied level. This is a curious argument to make. The platform is too popular? Would it have made any sense at all if anyone made the same claim about, say, Windows game development? I suspect what this really means is "there are more games than ever, and the iOS App Store is becoming increasingly difficult to rely on as a discovery mechanism, thus requiring advertising to users with other mediums", but that's kind of always been true, and it's certainly been true of all desktop platforms. Which makes me wonder why iOS can't simply be treated the same way non-mobile platforms are and rely on more traditional marketing channels? The only other way to interpret this that I can think of is "it's becoming increasingly difficult to justify a >$5 price for a game", but I haven't seen any sign of that being true. iOS has had a "race to the bottom" mentality for prices since the app store first opened. There's always been a ton of free or $0.99 games, and a relatively low number of pricer-but-higher-quality games. I don't think this has changed in years, with perhaps the only real difference being that game developers are becoming increasingly sophisticated about how they apply F2P techniques. And as a bit of anecdata, the most impressive game I've seen on iOS in a while is a brand new one called Implosion that costs $9.99 and, at the time of this comment, has a solid 5-star rating with 311 reviews.
- rodgerd 12y ago
  > Would it have made any sense at all if anyone made the same claim about, say, Windows game development? In Windows game development you've have a long history of many ways to distribute your wares, with different pros and cons. Not so much for Androids or iOS. Note that similar complaints have been levelled at Steam, which is the closest thing to the iOS model.
  - eridius 12y ago
    Is there really that much of a difference between "Click [here](link-to-app-store) to buy this game!" and "Click [here](link-to-self-hosted-page) to buy this game!"? The only real difference I can think of is when software was primarily distributed via physical media, but that hasn't been the primary distribution mechanism for a while (and I would expect that nearly all software these days doesn't even have an option for physical media).
mahouse 12y ago
> Competition on the App Store has risen to a frenzied level. As a result, sales for our games has dropped massively and the cost of advertising them has shot through the roof. So... Actually make good games? I don't know what the games of this studio are, but if you can't shine anymore in an app store just because there are more competitors, maybe your products weren't that good to begin with?
- fuckedapanda 12y ago
  the games spiderweb makes are really great, Vogel himself is kind of an indie success story as well honestly I don't think his games fit well with the kind of players and people who buy iPads these days
- izacus 12y ago
  Unfortunately the definition of a "good" game and a game that earns money on App stores is slightly disconnected at this time. Skinner boxes that rely on practically scummy ways of selling expensive IAPs for basic amount of gameplay are the ones that dominate the earnings.
  - freehunter 12y ago
    Which sucks because some of the games are quite good, or could be without the IAP stuff. I do enjoy Peggle and would be willing to pay a few bucks for it. Instead the only option I have is to get it for free and only play a few rounds per day until it's begging me for money. And not a one-time purchase, literally 99c per day. No thanks. And an Age of Empires style game would be awesome on mobile! But not a "it takes five hours to build this building unless you pay lots of money" style game. It would be nice to have a platform that outlawed that kind of stuff, so real games for real prices could go back to being competitive. It's to the point where I won't even download a game that they won't let me pay for upfront (and even then, I find some $1.99 games that have stupid IAP requirements, and that pisses me off even more).
- lotharbot 12y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiderweb_Software http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiderweb_Software Seems they've gotten pretty good reviews from critics and fans alike. (I personally enjoyed Avadon, which came with one of the Humble Android Bundles.)
dyarosla 12y ago
I admire the developer, but the whole post feels like a cop-out blaming Apple. Too much competition? Let's give up. Engine broke from some change, don't want to try fixing it? Let's give up. Ads cost too much? Not, 'let's stop advertising on iOS', instead, Let's give up. I can understand as much as the next iOS developer that changes that require large workarounds due to software/hardware updates that aren't backwards compatible are a pain. But as a developer, you suck it up, modify your content, and continue (Edit: Of course, if it makes financial sense, positive ROI, etc, to keep selling on the Appstore). Why do developers feel entitled to hardware devices that will always work with legacy code? Apple makes changes that try to push their technology forward to the latest and greatest, all the while removing legacy cruft at the expense of sometimes trading off backwards compatibility. It makes sense that they expect their developers to keep up with the latest trends and produce content that's formatted to the current specs, not simply relying on old tech specs.
- smacktoward 12y ago
  > Why do developers feel entitled to hardware devices that will always work with legacy code? "Entitled" isn't really the word I would use there. It's not like developers throughout history have forced poor platform vendors to provide backwards compatibility at gunpoint. It's that most platform developers have provided backwards compatibility because doing so helps them attract developers. This has been true literally for fifty years -- see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_System/360 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_System/360 for the first platform vendor to figure it out. Backwards compatibility is part of the work you do to convince people to use your platform over the alternatives. Omitting it can make developing your platform easier, but that ease comes at the cost of forcing you to work harder to convince people to get on board. Apple's within their rights to decide they don't need to work hard to attract developers anymore, of course, but developers are every bit as much within their rights to decide to take their products elsewhere. Whether it's smart business for Apple to decide they don't need to work hard to attract developers is another matter, of course. History suggests that is an attitude that eventually comes back to bite you. (Ask anyone at Microsoft, they can tell you alllllll about it.)
  - 12y ago
amelius 12y ago
> Competition on the App Store has risen to a frenzied level. As a result, sales for our games has dropped massively and the cost of advertising them has shot through the roof. Indeed. It seems nowadays, with Apple and Google, that the company with the deepest pockets for advertisement takes it all. Money is screwing up the evolutionary game that capitalism is trying to be.
aresant 12y ago
It is fascinating how much the "micro-transaction" model on the iOS platform continues to bury everything else. Spiderweb throwing in the towel I would guess has a lot more to do with their #1 point "Competition on the App Store has risen to a frenzied level." than the others. The top two grossing games - Clash of Clans and Game of War - receive metacritic scores of 74 and 67 respectively. Whereas the most recent SpiderWeb release I can find - Avernum 2: Crystal Souls - sits at 81 The organic discovery issue is only a small component of the problem when you look at the sheer amount of money that the micro guys can afford to dump into the mobile-advertising economy. And as anybody who's spent 5 mins on app-store "optimization" knows - the better your paid, the better your organic - by a right mile. I hate ending comments like this without a solution but the best context we have is watching Zynga get eroded / replaced on FB at some point. But their death blow was the rise of FB's platform selling ads to the mobile OS guys mentioned above who essentially just out-zynga'd Zynga. When you create an app economy that provides outsized rewards to the vultures, of course they'll control the board, wonder where this winds up. (1) http://www.metacritic.com/game/ios/clash-of-clans http://www.metacritic.com/game/ios/clash-of-clans, http://www.metacritic.com/game/ios/game-of-war---fire-age http://www.metacritic.com/game/ios/game-of-war---fire-age, http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/avernum-2-crystal-souls http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/avernum-2-crystal-souls
- pivo 12y ago
  > And as anybody who's spent 5 mins on app-store "optimization" knows - the better your paid, the better your organic - by a right mile. Sorry, I guess my English is bad. I do not understand this sentence. Could you explain?
  - Mtinie 12y ago
    > the better your paid, the better your organic - by a right mile I interpreted it as meaning the higher your app is ranked in the 'paid' category (preferrably in the top 20 or higher), the better your organic acquisition rate is going to be (logically because you'll get all the "free" advertising for being featured on the front page of the "Top Paid". It's a self-reinforcing cycle...more customers, higher ranking, more customers...if you can swing it.
justinpaulson 12y ago
> My brain no longer has the time and energy to deal with Apple forcing me to relearn how to program every few years. Is this just kind of how developing software works on every platform?
- chx 12y ago
  Did someone invent a whole new language for their platform and solely for that platform like Swift?
  - ta0967 12y ago
    .NET
    - zamalek 12y ago
      False.[1] [1]: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc749640.aspx https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc749640.aspx
  - comex 12y ago
    Nobody is forcing you to use Swift.
- quietplatypus 12y ago
  Well, compared to Windows, which up until Windows 7 let you run a bunch of very old games (and even then you could still get some of them to work in compatibility mode), I'd say no. And that's a software platform that has to run on a bunch of different hardware. Also, your Xbox 360 games will all still work on your Xbox 360, as long as you have the hardware around. AFAIK all the Xbox 360 software updates never broke any Xbox 360 game.
  - djur 12y ago
    To back this up, Spiderweb's original Exile series still works perfectly well on modern Windows machines. I dug up my disk for Blades of Exile a while back and spent some time playing it on my Linux machine without anything other than some very minor graphical glitches. The Mac versions haven't been playable without an emulator for a very long time. And in this case, we're talking about the most recent iteration of SW's engine (they seem to remake Exile with a more modern engine and refreshed graphics every so often; the current Avernum 2 is the second remake of Exile II). Software platform vendors should really make an effort to maintain backwards compatibility for at least a few years -- especially when the platform is so centrally controlled.
douche 12y ago
There was a story on here a month or two ago interviewing the founder of the company. This is basically a one-man shop, and from the few games I have played in their offerings, they look like a little more work to put together than Flappy Bird. If it's too much of a hassle for the return he's getting on it, then it makes perfect sense to refocus efforts.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
MarkG509 12y ago
Back in the time-frame of the Leopard to Snow Leopard transition, I visited an Apple Store (for the last time), where upon I informed a 'genius' that on Windows, I had code that I needed to (or was required to) run everyday that was older than him, and that Apple's complete disregard for backward compatibility lost me (and everyone I know) as a customer for ever.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
  Good job for getting upset a retail clerk making not much more than minimum wage for CEO-level decisions?
  - GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
    And were you seriously running binaries from 1987 (+/-) because you might as well stuff that thing in a dosbox.
- sleepybrett 12y ago
  Progress is hard.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- s73v3r 12y ago
  And not a single thing of value was lost.
- themoonbus 12y ago
  The image of you entering a likely-crowded Apple store and berating a random retail store employee because OS X doesn't support decades old software is pretty hilarious.
angelbroz 12y ago
WebGL
angelbroz 12y ago
WebGL
gmisra 12y ago
Honest question: how/why is it legal for Apple to ban any other "app store" from existing? I understand the motivation to require the presence of an intermediary to combat malicious software, but it seems blatantly anti-competitive to forbid competition within the domain of providing this intermediation service. Similarly, why haven't any major app companies challenged Apple on the 30% app store charge, and how it is inconsistently enforced? For example, rdio charges a premium if you purchase a subscription through the app store, but MLB radio does not. I don't know much about these things, but as a user I think it's fair to conclude that Apple has not done a very good job of app store stewardship, and I personally would welcome potential new overlords.
- Finster 12y ago
  They don't have to ban other app stores. All they have to do is require that apps that run on your device be signed by Apple's certificates... which requires the App Store ecosystem. If you jailbreak device to be able to run unsigned code, of course this restriction goes away and you can use whatever app store you want... like Cydia, for instance.
- netheril96 12y ago
  It is illegal only when Apple owns the majority of the market share, that is, a monopoly. When iPhone users constituted more than 90% of all smart phone users, such practice would be illegal. Right now, Apple can argue that a tight controlled App Store is vital to their success, and any consumer who disagrees can simply switch to their competitor, Android.
meritt 12y ago
Curious why a developer of low-tech-requirements games like these wouldn't use something like Unity and eliminate most of the multi-platform hurdles.
- rocky1138 12y ago
  He has been refining his games and engines using the same software since the 90s.
- robterrell 12y ago
  From the screenshots it appears that Unity would be a great choice. Cocods2dx would probably be a good choice too. But the post specifically mentions the costs of licensing & learning a new engine as one of the reasons. Some people just don't want to learn new stuff.
- Narishma 12y ago
  I think Unity would be overkill for the types of games he makes.
mark_l_watson 12y ago
I think that becoming the most profitable company in the world has negatively impacted Apple, at least how I view them. I wrote the chess program given away free with the early Apple IIs, made some good money on a Mac app in 1984, and until recently favored Mac laptops: a fan boy. That is changing. I bought an incredibly cheap and underpowered Windows 8.1 laptop in January (HP Stream 11) for $199 and like it quite a lot. I plan on getting either a Surface 3 or Surface 3 Pro soon, and will put my old MB Air on the shelf next to my Linux laptop to be used just as needed. Microsoft seems to be heading in a good direction, Apple less so. Things like living in a web browser and a platform neutral IDE (I use IntelliJ for Clojure, Java, Python, PHP, and Ruby) make OS platform less impactful on using a computer. I am looking at Surface 3 Pros and Surface 3s, price and feature wise, vs. Apple products and I find Apple losing ground. The comparison is especially bad for Apple re: cloud services: Office 365 is such a good deal for $100/year compared to iCloud, with way more and better services. As software engineers, money for hardware, software, and cloud services might not mean much, but I think it is good to look at what the general public will be using.
- javajosh 12y ago
  I've not heard of people running IntelliJ on a Surface. I'd be curious to know how well that works.
  - schandur 12y ago
    I have some complaints on the Surface Pro 2, but mostly related to the TypeCover keyboard. Haven't played with SP3.
    - scott_karana 12y ago
      Sorry, I've gotta say: you know that things like "SP3" in Microsoft-land typically mean "Service Pack", right? It's so easy to get confused in acronym-city already, shouldn't we avoid creating more? :(
  - mark_l_watson 12y ago
    With the keyboard, it is just a Windows machine - it should be fine, but thanks: I will do some research.
drawkbox 12y ago
The app stores need what Steam has added a touch of lately, other lists curated by anyone that highlight good games. The Appstore top lists are full of bad games and ones I am tired of seeing. You can't hide them and they still show even if you bought them. Places like Touch Arcade and other curations also highlight lots of great games. There needs to be the ability to make curated lists like a mall within the app stores just like Steam or the actual internet. The markets and stores should always be open to developer submissions, they should always have top lists of different types and categories, but they also need curated lists of games that you can browse and find within the store. This alone would put more quality games in the top lists that actually have gameplay and are worth it.
- bisrael 12y ago
  Sadly, this will never happen: All of the bullshit f2p apps out there generate incredible revenue for Apple. Clash of clans alone generates 1M/day. That's 300k/day Apple gets for doing nothing. Apple would have to give up that free cash.... Not happenimg.
  - interpol_p 12y ago
    I can't see Apple looking at it as "free cash." The App Store generates such an insubstantial amount of cash (for Apple, as compared to their other platforms and products) that it would be completely insane for them not to focus on the long-term quality of the store — which would be a driver for their hardware sales. I am absolutely certain that they realise this, but it just happens to be an incredibly difficult problem to solve without basically rejecting 90% of the apps that get submitted.
  - BringTheTanks 12y ago
    > That's 300k/day Apple gets for doing nothing. Where by nothing you mean "run the App Store".
- dhagz 12y ago
  There already are curated lists on the App Store - the problem is that Apple curates them and they can be hard to get to if they aren't a list Apple is featuring. I think the closest we've seen to curated lists is the "Indie Spotlight" that Apple has done for the past few months, where they feature an indie dev and list that dev's own games and the dev's favorite games to play. But this list refreshes every month, isn't archived, and seems to be sporadically featured on the main tab of the App Store. If Apple were to open that ability to a select few approved groups (like Touch Arcade), that would be a huge step forward for Apple, and it would still be nowhere near what Valve has done with Steam's curated lists.
galfarragem 12y ago
> Competition on the App Store has risen to a frenzied level. I'm portuguese. I've an Ipad but I never bought any app. The market is so full of good free apps that I never needed to buy any. Most of my friends don't spend much in apps also. This makes me think that App store gets money only from very specific countries. Will App Store become like Google Store as soon as these countries get used to get apps for free?
waynecochran 12y ago
I teach both iOS/UIKit and OS X/AppKit in some of my courses and I have to rewrite my solutions every year. So much is deprecated and so much changes. If you write mildly sophisticated apps for iOS, just prepare to rewrite them every year. Just look at the evolution of memory management from retain/release, to gc, to ARC, throw in properties, etc... Not to mention the API's that are constantly deprecated. Even my model (non-IU) classes get overhauled. In the end the apps are doing anything better...
- jawngee 12y ago
  What would you recommend they do then? Not evolve the platform? Retain deprecated methods? I don't get it.
  - waynecochran 12y ago
    Good retort. They certainly should push it forward. The continual overhaul is tiresome though... Now they have an entire new language! Not only will I rewrite all my solutions next year, I'll have to rewrite my notes from scratch and learn yet another language. If all I did was develop iOS/OS X apps I would enjoy the continual improvements, but its tough to keep up with when you also have to keep up with a variety of other technologies (like OpenGL! -- which I have used since Iris GL). The fact remains, rewrite your iOS apps every year. Of course this pales compared to the crazy ADHD pace of JS frameworks -- that is truly beyond reason.
api 12y ago
Sort of "meta," but I am getting the feeling that the whole "mobile is the future everything else is dead make everything for phones!" era is going the way of "web/cloud is the future everything else is dead write everything for the browser!" Obviously mobile ain't going anywhere any more than the web is... I am referring to the mobile-only and everything else is dead mania. I feel like it has maybe a year or two left in it. Question is: what is the next thing that is "the future" and will make everything else "dead"? Internet of things?
- walterbell 12y ago
  Visible battlefield casualties tend to scare inbound bright-eyed-and-bushy-tailed recruits, until recruiters invest in cleanup crews.
- douche 12y ago
  The enterprise software "Social software is the Future" meme also thankfully seems to be dying down, but not before untold billions were invested in Yammer, IBM, Salesforce and others trying to clone Facebook and turn it into a business product.
- BinaryIdiot 12y ago
  I really miss native applications on the desktop. I want to use something responsive, snappy and can work offline. Almost no productivity app beyond the usual suspects do this anymore; it's all web or mobile based. I'm fine with cloud syncing just give me my native apps on the desktop that I miss!
ianstallings 12y ago
Only one of those reasons is legit - you need a marketing budget to win at games on iOS. The rest? Weak excuses imho.
PythonicAlpha 12y ago
That is one of the reasons, I avoid Apple as much I can. The hardware is really good and also the software often is. But the company politics just kills it off for me. They just don't care about the small developer (and sometimes not even about the customers). When they have an idea, how the world should be, they change everything needed and don't care about the effects on small software vendors or even some customers. Apple once made this genius tv spot about 1984. Apple for me has become, what they accused IBM to be at 1984. The crazy thing is, that the normal Apple customer does not care.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
wantab 12y ago
All I read was "We're too small to keep up with the software changes and our game can't compete with everyone else in the field." None of that is Apple's fault.
lnanek2 12y ago
Don't really understand. I searched out YouTube videos of his games, they are very low visual quality graphics RPGs. If his engine is dead, he could make something better anyway by just taking a week out to watch Unity tutorials. And that is without even buying one of the many RPG kits off the asset store.
shurcooL 12y ago
I expect this may happen to Apple Watch sooner rather than later.
kuebelreiter 12y ago
This is a single twist of fate. It has no meaning except for the individual. He just doesn't want to keep up any more. His decision. But it has nothing to do with Apple.
- dmpk2k 12y ago
  But it has nothing to do with Apple. On the contrary. Part of the problem is Apple's backward compatibility, or relative lack thereof. Apple's API stability is pure cowboy. I don't think we should pretend otherwise, just because we like their products.
- extc 12y ago
  Nothing to do with Apple? Since iOS7, Apple is constantly breaking apps that are already in the store and running fine. This is because they don't provide a backwards compatible runtime. For example, your app that's compiled and working well for iOS 8.2 can have new bugs (like text fields not appearing) after the user upgrades to iOS 8.3. To re-iterate, the user has not re-installed your app. They are still using the same great app compiled for 8.2 and now it doesn't work correctly. And the bug is caused by bad code from Apple in their runtime. To use an ironic comparison, if you made a Flash game in Flash 9, it would always run exactly the same way until the end up time, even after Flash 13 is released, because Adobe/Macromedia kept the runtime for each version and did not change it after it was released. New version meant a new runtime engine. Anyway, so Apple breaks your app. It's possible you don't notice this because you don't test every feature of every app you've created for every new iOS version on the day it comes out. So within a couple weeks, most of your clients are asking you why your app doesn't work and you have to scramble to replicate the problem and then someone how fix it, sometimes having to rewrite a core part of your app. This happens over and over and it's tiring, costs your company money, makes you look bad to your clients and is very demoralizing. This is no one's fault but Apple's.
jokoon 12y ago
> 2. Changes in iOS 8.3 completely broke the engine we have been using for the last several years. This. Apple has been a specialist at breaking compatibility. Microsoft has been much better at that. Backward compatibility is so important, not having it is pretty risky if you want to keep mac developers. XCode is a good example of that. At every new XCode versions, things have to be reconfigured.
coldtea 12y ago
The first and main reason they give: "1. Competition on the App Store has risen to a frenzied level. As a result, sales for our games has dropped massively and the cost of advertising them has shot through the roof." Probably had the idea that mere hard work in creating a game is rewarded in the market (any market).
tempodox 12y ago
The politics around software updates (both OSs & apps) in recent time show that whoever builds on Apple is building on quicksand. Overall software quality began to deteriorate visibly with the introduction of OS X and hasn't gotten better in the meantime. This is not because the bugs would be hard to find, or fix, but due to a deliberate policy change. And iOS is no different. Just look at both AppStores, you can see the middle finger sticking out. They changed their stance from “We care about users” to “My way or the highway.” This works as long as the current fad is all the rage, but when it's gone there will be nothing left. Apple has gotten too stupid for their own good, i.e. a company like any other.
clutterjoe 12y ago
Apple isn't changing, they've always wrested control of their platform from developers. This approach is obviously working for them, this time next year we'll all be talking about "watch first web development." I read the article and while Jeff made valid points, I wonder if he would've benefited from having a PR/marketing person vet his messaging. His article can easily be dismissed as hyperventilating about change and as a reader it's unclear what action I should take after absorbing his point of view.
- BringTheTanks 12y ago
  > this time next year we'll all be talking about "watch first web development." This doesn't diminish your overall point, but a little side note - Apple Watch has no browser, and it'll never have one.
jheriko 12y ago
i agree with a lot of the moaning about competition etc, but the tech argument is basically an admission of incompetence. the complaint is that "you used rubbish tech and didn't plan for the future"? thats not the fault of apple or ipad... poor workmen blame their tools. its funny how my hand rolled stuff rarely hits these problems and is easy to fix. but then years and years of working on every major gaming platform helps make you forward think these things properly... as far as a platform to adapt to goes ios is on the very easy end of the spectrum. you want to see what microsoft have been trying to do... at least apple let us do native code with only minimal layers of their crap, and don't break too heavily the standard libraries that have served us so well for the last 40 years. android is almost as bad... i'm convinced google want to kill native code for whatever insane philosophical reason they have
Shorel 12y ago
Because it was a bad idea to split the developer ecosystem in two destkop/mobile parts from the start. My ideal computer before iPads existed was a convertible 2-in-1 Macbook Air. It will never be manufactured, and therefore, I will never be my main machine. Ubuntu and Windows are working in unifying them again. Let's see what happens in the future. I'm writing this in a Dell Inspiron 7000 2-in-1 running Ubuntu, the closest thing I could find to my dream machine.
verelo 12y ago
You know something is wrong when I find myself not only agreeing with everything the author writes, but when I'm also fearful to publicly state that I agree for the concern that it might hurt my own app store submissions if big brother notices. Every iOS update breaks our app, in stupidly unexplainable ways. It takes months of work just to maintain a steady state between app store versions, and I feel that the magnitude of work required to keep up with iOS 7 and now iOS 8 was much worse than going from 5 to 6. Android is not much better, but I feel that iOS is slowly getting worse and it makes me sad. Edit: Spelling
gdubs 12y ago
Understandably, most comments are gonna focus on App Store discovery, etc. But one thing that stands out for me is a reliance on 3rd party frameworks and a lack of desire to learn new technology. The problem with a framework is that when things break they can be a nightmare to fix. Work closer to the system frameworks and you face a steeper learning curve, but you gain confidence for when things go wrong. As far as ever-evolving technology -- well, maybe it can feel daunting, but it's also exciting and fun.
al2o3cr 12y ago
To sum up: * "we have competition and that's hard" * "writing code is hard" * "no srsly, it's really hard yo"

406 points by mason240 12y ago

jnem 12y ago

That's too bad, but I do understand the sentiment. Ive been playing Spiderweb software games since I was a kid, and did in fact buy one of the Avernum games for my iPad, which I quite enjoyed (though the graphics were a bit to small, and hard to click on in some places). Still a great source of classic RPG gameplay.

ufmace 12y ago

I wonder if they're still developing for Android, the site and article seem to imply so.

untog 12y ago

I'm interested to know what changed in 8.3 that broke their game engine. It's supposed to be a minor update, after all.

eridius 12y ago
So am I. I'm also interested to know why the engine can't be fixed, rather than being forced to replace it with an all-new engine.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- Someone 12y ago
  It might be technically possible or even trivial to fix the engine, but impossible for other reasons. They are talking of licensing a new engine. If they licensed the current one, too, it might just be a matter of a vendor that went out of business or killed the product.
- teacup50 12y ago
  Not the engine author, but from our app experience: Tracking Apple's breakage (in minor releases, even) and fixing our code -- code that was written to the defined API -- is a cost that is rising precipitously as Apple's quality and stability keeps going down. If you have revenue from other platforms, it can make sense to just say "f it" and drop the platform. The AppStore is a shitty retail pipeline; 30% is a crazy commission for digital software distribution, the single-retailer-monopoly + appstore design is driving prices to unsustainable levels, etc.
svarrall 12y ago
Could be tied to the forced 64bit support for iOS apps and updates from June 1st? https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=12172014b https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=12172014b
- stcredzero 12y ago
  64 bit stuff in iOS 8.3 broke the way we were using 3rd party zip libraries in my iPad project. Before that, it had been completely stable since iOS6. Am now rewriting in Swift and using Storyboard, with xcassets taking the place of zip files.
- walterbell 12y ago
  That will orphan apps who just want to deliver updates (e.g. app security, unrelated to OS) for older versions of iOS. Orphan apps will need a distribution channel that can reach older and still-useful devices.
matwood 12y ago
If the engine was hybrid/webview based, that has been a mess since iOS 8 came out.
mjquinn 12y ago
A quick Google search led me to this thread: http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=259228 http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=259228 There are a few reports there of games on Unreal Engine 3 having graphical glitches and performance issues under 8.3. It looks like Unreal Engine 3 is not getting updates anymore[0], so it's possible that UE3 users are stuck. (I don't know if Spiderweb use UE3). [0] https://www.unrealengine.com/previous-versions https://www.unrealengine.com/previous-versions
- freehunter 12y ago
  I would be very, very surprised if they were using UE3, considering their games haven't seen much of a graphical update since... 1994? Really old school in literally every single way. Think Ultima Online, then take a step back from that. However, I wouldn't be surprised if they suffered from a similar regression.
izacus 12y ago
Honestly, Apple sometimes tends to break some fairly important stuff even in the bugfix x.x.1 releases, especially in iOS 7/8 versions which have been... slightly more buggy that we'd like.
yellowapple 12y ago
If you're looking for a company to be the poster child of semantic versioning, Apple ain't it :)
vinceyuan 12y ago
This one? https://twitter.com/sanjeetsuhag/status/586039564537475072 https://twitter.com/sanjeetsuhag/status/586039564537475072
osi 12y ago
More details: http://spiderwebforums.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/21507-avernum-2-hd-for-ipad-canceled/ http://spiderwebforums.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/21507-av... https://twitter.com/spiderwebsoft/status/588809965499850752 https://twitter.com/spiderwebsoft/status/588809965499850752 The tweet states "The deprecation of UIApplication and UIViewController."

freehunter 12y ago

I own a couple of Spiderweb Software games on Windows, and play them on my Windows 8.1 tablet. They almost play like they were made for a touch screen (and they run great on the ancient dual-core Atom and stupidly non-existent video card in my Thinkpad Tablet 2). Actually the only thing I need a keyboard for is if I have selected a magic spell and want to cancel casting it. Then I need to pair my Bluetooth keyboard just to hit the escape key. So, Jeff, let the world know that your games run un-altered on x86-based Windows tablets, even quite old ones. You don't even need to change any of your development processes to target the platform. It's already Windows.

thechao 12y ago
I enjoyed the heck out of developing drivers for that thing—it was a constant uphill battle to even get correctness, nonetheless, the pretty decent performance we got. In the end, my tablet's battery died, and it now sits in a drawer, forgotten.
- freehunter 12y ago
  Drivers for the Tablet 2? Yeah the drivers are awful. Half the drivers I'm using are downloaded from Dell because the Lenovo drivers are useless. Getting to the point where I could have Bluetooth and Wifi connected at the same time was a nightmare. I still use mine, but only when I don't want to start up my PC or something where touch feels more natural, like Hearthstone or Avernum: Escape from the Pit.

SSLy 12y ago

Hugged to death?

hockeybias 12y ago

Can;t blame you a bit...

takasc2 12y ago

I follow Ipad gaming quite closely because it is perfect for my commutes. I would consider myself as close to a hardcore ipad gamer as it is possible to get - I read specialist sites like pockettactics and spend well over a hundred dollars a year on ipad games. I had never heard of this company or its games before. The ipad is a marketing platform in the best and worst way I can mean that. Looking at this company they seem aggressively anti-marketing. Their entire presentation style and format is opposed to the kind of experience the ipad offers. They are the anti-flipboard. The fact that someone as interested in ipad gaming as me was not even aware their games existed until now suggests it is probably not the best platform for them at all.

Fr0styMatt8 12y ago
Spiderweb games are very highly regarded RPGs that came from the PC. I definitely know TouchArcade has covered their games a few times over the years.
- takasc2 12y ago
  I looked up the company on pocket tactics, the site I menioned after I posted this. Infact they have had numerous mentions there as well, but no real detailed coverage, no real follow up. I don't think iPad games journalists are failing to cover companies like this - I think these kinds of companies are so anti-marketing in the presentation and design of their games that they fail to stand out or get noticed even by people like me who might have been looking for this kind of experience. A contrasting company would be someone like inkle's 80 days - that's was an odd iPad game that was hard to sell just on screenshots, but it was marketed brilliantly and had a vision throughout the product that was reflected in taht and the buzz around it was and is huge because of that
  - jblow 12y ago
    You are saying "anti-marketing" but what this really means is that they are putting less investment into production values than you prefer. The whole point is that it is doubtful that they will stay solvent if they put more money into production values on that platform. Nice graphics are very expensive. (They are more expensive than any other aspect of game development, in fact). If it seems unlikely that enough people will buy their game given that type of investment, then it may be a good choice to stay away from that. On top of which, maybe they just don't want to spend all their time doing graphics. Maybe they want to work on the story / world / etc.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

eridius 12y ago

> Competition on the App Store has risen to a frenzied level. This is a curious argument to make. The platform is too popular? Would it have made any sense at all if anyone made the same claim about, say, Windows game development? I suspect what this really means is "there are more games than ever, and the iOS App Store is becoming increasingly difficult to rely on as a discovery mechanism, thus requiring advertising to users with other mediums", but that's kind of always been true, and it's certainly been true of all desktop platforms. Which makes me wonder why iOS can't simply be treated the same way non-mobile platforms are and rely on more traditional marketing channels? The only other way to interpret this that I can think of is "it's becoming increasingly difficult to justify a >$5 price for a game", but I haven't seen any sign of that being true. iOS has had a "race to the bottom" mentality for prices since the app store first opened. There's always been a ton of free or $0.99 games, and a relatively low number of pricer-but-higher-quality games. I don't think this has changed in years, with perhaps the only real difference being that game developers are becoming increasingly sophisticated about how they apply F2P techniques. And as a bit of anecdata, the most impressive game I've seen on iOS in a while is a brand new one called Implosion that costs $9.99 and, at the time of this comment, has a solid 5-star rating with 311 reviews.

rodgerd 12y ago
> Would it have made any sense at all if anyone made the same claim about, say, Windows game development? In Windows game development you've have a long history of many ways to distribute your wares, with different pros and cons. Not so much for Androids or iOS. Note that similar complaints have been levelled at Steam, which is the closest thing to the iOS model.
- eridius 12y ago
  Is there really that much of a difference between "Click [here](link-to-app-store) to buy this game!" and "Click [here](link-to-self-hosted-page) to buy this game!"? The only real difference I can think of is when software was primarily distributed via physical media, but that hasn't been the primary distribution mechanism for a while (and I would expect that nearly all software these days doesn't even have an option for physical media).

mahouse 12y ago

> Competition on the App Store has risen to a frenzied level. As a result, sales for our games has dropped massively and the cost of advertising them has shot through the roof. So... Actually make good games? I don't know what the games of this studio are, but if you can't shine anymore in an app store just because there are more competitors, maybe your products weren't that good to begin with?

fuckedapanda 12y ago
the games spiderweb makes are really great, Vogel himself is kind of an indie success story as well honestly I don't think his games fit well with the kind of players and people who buy iPads these days
izacus 12y ago
Unfortunately the definition of a "good" game and a game that earns money on App stores is slightly disconnected at this time. Skinner boxes that rely on practically scummy ways of selling expensive IAPs for basic amount of gameplay are the ones that dominate the earnings.
- freehunter 12y ago
  Which sucks because some of the games are quite good, or could be without the IAP stuff. I do enjoy Peggle and would be willing to pay a few bucks for it. Instead the only option I have is to get it for free and only play a few rounds per day until it's begging me for money. And not a one-time purchase, literally 99c per day. No thanks. And an Age of Empires style game would be awesome on mobile! But not a "it takes five hours to build this building unless you pay lots of money" style game. It would be nice to have a platform that outlawed that kind of stuff, so real games for real prices could go back to being competitive. It's to the point where I won't even download a game that they won't let me pay for upfront (and even then, I find some $1.99 games that have stupid IAP requirements, and that pisses me off even more).
lotharbot 12y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiderweb_Software http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiderweb_Software Seems they've gotten pretty good reviews from critics and fans alike. (I personally enjoyed Avadon, which came with one of the Humble Android Bundles.)

dyarosla 12y ago

I admire the developer, but the whole post feels like a cop-out blaming Apple. Too much competition? Let's give up. Engine broke from some change, don't want to try fixing it? Let's give up. Ads cost too much? Not, 'let's stop advertising on iOS', instead, Let's give up. I can understand as much as the next iOS developer that changes that require large workarounds due to software/hardware updates that aren't backwards compatible are a pain. But as a developer, you suck it up, modify your content, and continue (Edit: Of course, if it makes financial sense, positive ROI, etc, to keep selling on the Appstore). Why do developers feel entitled to hardware devices that will always work with legacy code? Apple makes changes that try to push their technology forward to the latest and greatest, all the while removing legacy cruft at the expense of sometimes trading off backwards compatibility. It makes sense that they expect their developers to keep up with the latest trends and produce content that's formatted to the current specs, not simply relying on old tech specs.

smacktoward 12y ago
> Why do developers feel entitled to hardware devices that will always work with legacy code? "Entitled" isn't really the word I would use there. It's not like developers throughout history have forced poor platform vendors to provide backwards compatibility at gunpoint. It's that most platform developers have provided backwards compatibility because doing so helps them attract developers. This has been true literally for fifty years -- see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_System/360 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_System/360 for the first platform vendor to figure it out. Backwards compatibility is part of the work you do to convince people to use your platform over the alternatives. Omitting it can make developing your platform easier, but that ease comes at the cost of forcing you to work harder to convince people to get on board. Apple's within their rights to decide they don't need to work hard to attract developers anymore, of course, but developers are every bit as much within their rights to decide to take their products elsewhere. Whether it's smart business for Apple to decide they don't need to work hard to attract developers is another matter, of course. History suggests that is an attitude that eventually comes back to bite you. (Ask anyone at Microsoft, they can tell you alllllll about it.)
- 12y ago

amelius 12y ago

> Competition on the App Store has risen to a frenzied level. As a result, sales for our games has dropped massively and the cost of advertising them has shot through the roof. Indeed. It seems nowadays, with Apple and Google, that the company with the deepest pockets for advertisement takes it all. Money is screwing up the evolutionary game that capitalism is trying to be.

aresant 12y ago

It is fascinating how much the "micro-transaction" model on the iOS platform continues to bury everything else. Spiderweb throwing in the towel I would guess has a lot more to do with their #1 point "Competition on the App Store has risen to a frenzied level." than the others. The top two grossing games - Clash of Clans and Game of War - receive metacritic scores of 74 and 67 respectively. Whereas the most recent SpiderWeb release I can find - Avernum 2: Crystal Souls - sits at 81 The organic discovery issue is only a small component of the problem when you look at the sheer amount of money that the micro guys can afford to dump into the mobile-advertising economy. And as anybody who's spent 5 mins on app-store "optimization" knows - the better your paid, the better your organic - by a right mile. I hate ending comments like this without a solution but the best context we have is watching Zynga get eroded / replaced on FB at some point. But their death blow was the rise of FB's platform selling ads to the mobile OS guys mentioned above who essentially just out-zynga'd Zynga. When you create an app economy that provides outsized rewards to the vultures, of course they'll control the board, wonder where this winds up. (1) http://www.metacritic.com/game/ios/clash-of-clans http://www.metacritic.com/game/ios/clash-of-clans, http://www.metacritic.com/game/ios/game-of-war---fire-age http://www.metacritic.com/game/ios/game-of-war---fire-age, http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/avernum-2-crystal-souls http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/avernum-2-crystal-souls

pivo 12y ago
> And as anybody who's spent 5 mins on app-store "optimization" knows - the better your paid, the better your organic - by a right mile. Sorry, I guess my English is bad. I do not understand this sentence. Could you explain?
- Mtinie 12y ago
  > the better your paid, the better your organic - by a right mile I interpreted it as meaning the higher your app is ranked in the 'paid' category (preferrably in the top 20 or higher), the better your organic acquisition rate is going to be (logically because you'll get all the "free" advertising for being featured on the front page of the "Top Paid". It's a self-reinforcing cycle...more customers, higher ranking, more customers...if you can swing it.

justinpaulson 12y ago

> My brain no longer has the time and energy to deal with Apple forcing me to relearn how to program every few years. Is this just kind of how developing software works on every platform?

chx 12y ago
Did someone invent a whole new language for their platform and solely for that platform like Swift?
- ta0967 12y ago
  .NET
  - zamalek 12y ago
    False.[1] [1]: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc749640.aspx https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc749640.aspx
- comex 12y ago
  Nobody is forcing you to use Swift.
quietplatypus 12y ago
Well, compared to Windows, which up until Windows 7 let you run a bunch of very old games (and even then you could still get some of them to work in compatibility mode), I'd say no. And that's a software platform that has to run on a bunch of different hardware. Also, your Xbox 360 games will all still work on your Xbox 360, as long as you have the hardware around. AFAIK all the Xbox 360 software updates never broke any Xbox 360 game.
- djur 12y ago
  To back this up, Spiderweb's original Exile series still works perfectly well on modern Windows machines. I dug up my disk for Blades of Exile a while back and spent some time playing it on my Linux machine without anything other than some very minor graphical glitches. The Mac versions haven't been playable without an emulator for a very long time. And in this case, we're talking about the most recent iteration of SW's engine (they seem to remake Exile with a more modern engine and refreshed graphics every so often; the current Avernum 2 is the second remake of Exile II). Software platform vendors should really make an effort to maintain backwards compatibility for at least a few years -- especially when the platform is so centrally controlled.

douche 12y ago

There was a story on here a month or two ago interviewing the founder of the company. This is basically a one-man shop, and from the few games I have played in their offerings, they look like a little more work to put together than Flappy Bird. If it's too much of a hassle for the return he's getting on it, then it makes perfect sense to refocus efforts.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

MarkG509 12y ago

Back in the time-frame of the Leopard to Snow Leopard transition, I visited an Apple Store (for the last time), where upon I informed a 'genius' that on Windows, I had code that I needed to (or was required to) run everyday that was older than him, and that Apple's complete disregard for backward compatibility lost me (and everyone I know) as a customer for ever.

GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
Good job for getting upset a retail clerk making not much more than minimum wage for CEO-level decisions?
- GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
  And were you seriously running binaries from 1987 (+/-) because you might as well stuff that thing in a dosbox.
sleepybrett 12y ago
Progress is hard.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
s73v3r 12y ago
And not a single thing of value was lost.
themoonbus 12y ago
The image of you entering a likely-crowded Apple store and berating a random retail store employee because OS X doesn't support decades old software is pretty hilarious.

angelbroz 12y ago

WebGL

angelbroz 12y ago

WebGL

gmisra 12y ago

Honest question: how/why is it legal for Apple to ban any other "app store" from existing? I understand the motivation to require the presence of an intermediary to combat malicious software, but it seems blatantly anti-competitive to forbid competition within the domain of providing this intermediation service. Similarly, why haven't any major app companies challenged Apple on the 30% app store charge, and how it is inconsistently enforced? For example, rdio charges a premium if you purchase a subscription through the app store, but MLB radio does not. I don't know much about these things, but as a user I think it's fair to conclude that Apple has not done a very good job of app store stewardship, and I personally would welcome potential new overlords.

Finster 12y ago
They don't have to ban other app stores. All they have to do is require that apps that run on your device be signed by Apple's certificates... which requires the App Store ecosystem. If you jailbreak device to be able to run unsigned code, of course this restriction goes away and you can use whatever app store you want... like Cydia, for instance.
netheril96 12y ago
It is illegal only when Apple owns the majority of the market share, that is, a monopoly. When iPhone users constituted more than 90% of all smart phone users, such practice would be illegal. Right now, Apple can argue that a tight controlled App Store is vital to their success, and any consumer who disagrees can simply switch to their competitor, Android.

meritt 12y ago

Curious why a developer of low-tech-requirements games like these wouldn't use something like Unity and eliminate most of the multi-platform hurdles.

rocky1138 12y ago
He has been refining his games and engines using the same software since the 90s.
robterrell 12y ago
From the screenshots it appears that Unity would be a great choice. Cocods2dx would probably be a good choice too. But the post specifically mentions the costs of licensing & learning a new engine as one of the reasons. Some people just don't want to learn new stuff.
Narishma 12y ago
I think Unity would be overkill for the types of games he makes.

mark_l_watson 12y ago

I think that becoming the most profitable company in the world has negatively impacted Apple, at least how I view them. I wrote the chess program given away free with the early Apple IIs, made some good money on a Mac app in 1984, and until recently favored Mac laptops: a fan boy. That is changing. I bought an incredibly cheap and underpowered Windows 8.1 laptop in January (HP Stream 11) for $199 and like it quite a lot. I plan on getting either a Surface 3 or Surface 3 Pro soon, and will put my old MB Air on the shelf next to my Linux laptop to be used just as needed. Microsoft seems to be heading in a good direction, Apple less so. Things like living in a web browser and a platform neutral IDE (I use IntelliJ for Clojure, Java, Python, PHP, and Ruby) make OS platform less impactful on using a computer. I am looking at Surface 3 Pros and Surface 3s, price and feature wise, vs. Apple products and I find Apple losing ground. The comparison is especially bad for Apple re: cloud services: Office 365 is such a good deal for $100/year compared to iCloud, with way more and better services. As software engineers, money for hardware, software, and cloud services might not mean much, but I think it is good to look at what the general public will be using.

javajosh 12y ago
I've not heard of people running IntelliJ on a Surface. I'd be curious to know how well that works.
- schandur 12y ago
  I have some complaints on the Surface Pro 2, but mostly related to the TypeCover keyboard. Haven't played with SP3.
  - scott_karana 12y ago
    Sorry, I've gotta say: you know that things like "SP3" in Microsoft-land typically mean "Service Pack", right? It's so easy to get confused in acronym-city already, shouldn't we avoid creating more? :(
- mark_l_watson 12y ago
  With the keyboard, it is just a Windows machine - it should be fine, but thanks: I will do some research.

drawkbox 12y ago

The app stores need what Steam has added a touch of lately, other lists curated by anyone that highlight good games. The Appstore top lists are full of bad games and ones I am tired of seeing. You can't hide them and they still show even if you bought them. Places like Touch Arcade and other curations also highlight lots of great games. There needs to be the ability to make curated lists like a mall within the app stores just like Steam or the actual internet. The markets and stores should always be open to developer submissions, they should always have top lists of different types and categories, but they also need curated lists of games that you can browse and find within the store. This alone would put more quality games in the top lists that actually have gameplay and are worth it.

bisrael 12y ago
Sadly, this will never happen: All of the bullshit f2p apps out there generate incredible revenue for Apple. Clash of clans alone generates 1M/day. That's 300k/day Apple gets for doing nothing. Apple would have to give up that free cash.... Not happenimg.
- interpol_p 12y ago
  I can't see Apple looking at it as "free cash." The App Store generates such an insubstantial amount of cash (for Apple, as compared to their other platforms and products) that it would be completely insane for them not to focus on the long-term quality of the store — which would be a driver for their hardware sales. I am absolutely certain that they realise this, but it just happens to be an incredibly difficult problem to solve without basically rejecting 90% of the apps that get submitted.
- BringTheTanks 12y ago
  > That's 300k/day Apple gets for doing nothing. Where by nothing you mean "run the App Store".
dhagz 12y ago
There already are curated lists on the App Store - the problem is that Apple curates them and they can be hard to get to if they aren't a list Apple is featuring. I think the closest we've seen to curated lists is the "Indie Spotlight" that Apple has done for the past few months, where they feature an indie dev and list that dev's own games and the dev's favorite games to play. But this list refreshes every month, isn't archived, and seems to be sporadically featured on the main tab of the App Store. If Apple were to open that ability to a select few approved groups (like Touch Arcade), that would be a huge step forward for Apple, and it would still be nowhere near what Valve has done with Steam's curated lists.

galfarragem 12y ago

> Competition on the App Store has risen to a frenzied level. I'm portuguese. I've an Ipad but I never bought any app. The market is so full of good free apps that I never needed to buy any. Most of my friends don't spend much in apps also. This makes me think that App store gets money only from very specific countries. Will App Store become like Google Store as soon as these countries get used to get apps for free?

waynecochran 12y ago

I teach both iOS/UIKit and OS X/AppKit in some of my courses and I have to rewrite my solutions every year. So much is deprecated and so much changes. If you write mildly sophisticated apps for iOS, just prepare to rewrite them every year. Just look at the evolution of memory management from retain/release, to gc, to ARC, throw in properties, etc... Not to mention the API's that are constantly deprecated. Even my model (non-IU) classes get overhauled. In the end the apps are doing anything better...

jawngee 12y ago
What would you recommend they do then? Not evolve the platform? Retain deprecated methods? I don't get it.
- waynecochran 12y ago
  Good retort. They certainly should push it forward. The continual overhaul is tiresome though... Now they have an entire new language! Not only will I rewrite all my solutions next year, I'll have to rewrite my notes from scratch and learn yet another language. If all I did was develop iOS/OS X apps I would enjoy the continual improvements, but its tough to keep up with when you also have to keep up with a variety of other technologies (like OpenGL! -- which I have used since Iris GL). The fact remains, rewrite your iOS apps every year. Of course this pales compared to the crazy ADHD pace of JS frameworks -- that is truly beyond reason.

api 12y ago

Sort of "meta," but I am getting the feeling that the whole "mobile is the future everything else is dead make everything for phones!" era is going the way of "web/cloud is the future everything else is dead write everything for the browser!" Obviously mobile ain't going anywhere any more than the web is... I am referring to the mobile-only and everything else is dead mania. I feel like it has maybe a year or two left in it. Question is: what is the next thing that is "the future" and will make everything else "dead"? Internet of things?

walterbell 12y ago
Visible battlefield casualties tend to scare inbound bright-eyed-and-bushy-tailed recruits, until recruiters invest in cleanup crews.
douche 12y ago
The enterprise software "Social software is the Future" meme also thankfully seems to be dying down, but not before untold billions were invested in Yammer, IBM, Salesforce and others trying to clone Facebook and turn it into a business product.
BinaryIdiot 12y ago
I really miss native applications on the desktop. I want to use something responsive, snappy and can work offline. Almost no productivity app beyond the usual suspects do this anymore; it's all web or mobile based. I'm fine with cloud syncing just give me my native apps on the desktop that I miss!

ianstallings 12y ago

Only one of those reasons is legit - you need a marketing budget to win at games on iOS. The rest? Weak excuses imho.

PythonicAlpha 12y ago

That is one of the reasons, I avoid Apple as much I can. The hardware is really good and also the software often is. But the company politics just kills it off for me. They just don't care about the small developer (and sometimes not even about the customers). When they have an idea, how the world should be, they change everything needed and don't care about the effects on small software vendors or even some customers. Apple once made this genius tv spot about 1984. Apple for me has become, what they accused IBM to be at 1984. The crazy thing is, that the normal Apple customer does not care.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

wantab 12y ago

All I read was "We're too small to keep up with the software changes and our game can't compete with everyone else in the field." None of that is Apple's fault.

lnanek2 12y ago

Don't really understand. I searched out YouTube videos of his games, they are very low visual quality graphics RPGs. If his engine is dead, he could make something better anyway by just taking a week out to watch Unity tutorials. And that is without even buying one of the many RPG kits off the asset store.

shurcooL 12y ago

I expect this may happen to Apple Watch sooner rather than later.

kuebelreiter 12y ago

This is a single twist of fate. It has no meaning except for the individual. He just doesn't want to keep up any more. His decision. But it has nothing to do with Apple.

dmpk2k 12y ago
But it has nothing to do with Apple. On the contrary. Part of the problem is Apple's backward compatibility, or relative lack thereof. Apple's API stability is pure cowboy. I don't think we should pretend otherwise, just because we like their products.
extc 12y ago
Nothing to do with Apple? Since iOS7, Apple is constantly breaking apps that are already in the store and running fine. This is because they don't provide a backwards compatible runtime. For example, your app that's compiled and working well for iOS 8.2 can have new bugs (like text fields not appearing) after the user upgrades to iOS 8.3. To re-iterate, the user has not re-installed your app. They are still using the same great app compiled for 8.2 and now it doesn't work correctly. And the bug is caused by bad code from Apple in their runtime. To use an ironic comparison, if you made a Flash game in Flash 9, it would always run exactly the same way until the end up time, even after Flash 13 is released, because Adobe/Macromedia kept the runtime for each version and did not change it after it was released. New version meant a new runtime engine. Anyway, so Apple breaks your app. It's possible you don't notice this because you don't test every feature of every app you've created for every new iOS version on the day it comes out. So within a couple weeks, most of your clients are asking you why your app doesn't work and you have to scramble to replicate the problem and then someone how fix it, sometimes having to rewrite a core part of your app. This happens over and over and it's tiring, costs your company money, makes you look bad to your clients and is very demoralizing. This is no one's fault but Apple's.

jokoon 12y ago

> 2. Changes in iOS 8.3 completely broke the engine we have been using for the last several years. This. Apple has been a specialist at breaking compatibility. Microsoft has been much better at that. Backward compatibility is so important, not having it is pretty risky if you want to keep mac developers. XCode is a good example of that. At every new XCode versions, things have to be reconfigured.

coldtea 12y ago

The first and main reason they give: "1. Competition on the App Store has risen to a frenzied level. As a result, sales for our games has dropped massively and the cost of advertising them has shot through the roof." Probably had the idea that mere hard work in creating a game is rewarded in the market (any market).

tempodox 12y ago

The politics around software updates (both OSs & apps) in recent time show that whoever builds on Apple is building on quicksand. Overall software quality began to deteriorate visibly with the introduction of OS X and hasn't gotten better in the meantime. This is not because the bugs would be hard to find, or fix, but due to a deliberate policy change. And iOS is no different. Just look at both AppStores, you can see the middle finger sticking out. They changed their stance from “We care about users” to “My way or the highway.” This works as long as the current fad is all the rage, but when it's gone there will be nothing left. Apple has gotten too stupid for their own good, i.e. a company like any other.

clutterjoe 12y ago

Apple isn't changing, they've always wrested control of their platform from developers. This approach is obviously working for them, this time next year we'll all be talking about "watch first web development." I read the article and while Jeff made valid points, I wonder if he would've benefited from having a PR/marketing person vet his messaging. His article can easily be dismissed as hyperventilating about change and as a reader it's unclear what action I should take after absorbing his point of view.

BringTheTanks 12y ago
> this time next year we'll all be talking about "watch first web development." This doesn't diminish your overall point, but a little side note - Apple Watch has no browser, and it'll never have one.

jheriko 12y ago

i agree with a lot of the moaning about competition etc, but the tech argument is basically an admission of incompetence. the complaint is that "you used rubbish tech and didn't plan for the future"? thats not the fault of apple or ipad... poor workmen blame their tools. its funny how my hand rolled stuff rarely hits these problems and is easy to fix. but then years and years of working on every major gaming platform helps make you forward think these things properly... as far as a platform to adapt to goes ios is on the very easy end of the spectrum. you want to see what microsoft have been trying to do... at least apple let us do native code with only minimal layers of their crap, and don't break too heavily the standard libraries that have served us so well for the last 40 years. android is almost as bad... i'm convinced google want to kill native code for whatever insane philosophical reason they have

Shorel 12y ago

Because it was a bad idea to split the developer ecosystem in two destkop/mobile parts from the start. My ideal computer before iPads existed was a convertible 2-in-1 Macbook Air. It will never be manufactured, and therefore, I will never be my main machine. Ubuntu and Windows are working in unifying them again. Let's see what happens in the future. I'm writing this in a Dell Inspiron 7000 2-in-1 running Ubuntu, the closest thing I could find to my dream machine.

verelo 12y ago

You know something is wrong when I find myself not only agreeing with everything the author writes, but when I'm also fearful to publicly state that I agree for the concern that it might hurt my own app store submissions if big brother notices. Every iOS update breaks our app, in stupidly unexplainable ways. It takes months of work just to maintain a steady state between app store versions, and I feel that the magnitude of work required to keep up with iOS 7 and now iOS 8 was much worse than going from 5 to 6. Android is not much better, but I feel that iOS is slowly getting worse and it makes me sad. Edit: Spelling

gdubs 12y ago

Understandably, most comments are gonna focus on App Store discovery, etc. But one thing that stands out for me is a reliance on 3rd party frameworks and a lack of desire to learn new technology. The problem with a framework is that when things break they can be a nightmare to fix. Work closer to the system frameworks and you face a steeper learning curve, but you gain confidence for when things go wrong. As far as ever-evolving technology -- well, maybe it can feel daunting, but it's also exciting and fun.

al2o3cr 12y ago

To sum up: * "we have competition and that's hard" * "writing code is hard" * "no srsly, it's really hard yo"