22 ms·

What Dreams May Come

789 points by jmadsen 13y ago

Ygg2 13y ago
:( I lost my grandma to cancer, but from what I've heard cancer in young people is even more devastating (young cells reproduce more quickly).
bherms 13y ago
It's sad that when we find out something this devastating (you're dying), that we have to spend our last weeks/months/years worrying about, of all things, money. Nobody deserves this sort of thing happening to them, and when it does happen, it hurts me to think they can't spend their last months on earth focused on enjoying time with their loved ones and instead have to live in fear that their family is going to be able to survive without an extra paycheck. It should be a time of finding peace within the chaos that is life, but instead it's like adding insult to injury. :(
- thaumasiotes 13y ago
  Where's your sympathy for the people who don't have cancer but have to go in to work every day because they don't want their family to starve? Should they not enjoy any time with their loved ones? Your viewpoint seems incoherent to me; we can't just support everyone out of common brotherly love.
  - bherms 13y ago
    I'm not saying there's a fix for it... Or that it's even a broken system. I just, out of the kindness of my heart, wish a guy down on his luck could at least have some worry lifted off of him when his life is literally ending. Do I feel for everyone else struggling in the world? In some cases, yes, in others, no. Circumstance dictates my feelings. Tell me another sob story and I'll likely feel for that person as well.
  - darthclue 13y ago
    The same place it's always been. I can't count the number of times that I've wished I could just stay home with my kids and enjoy being with them. But I had to choose between providing for them or being with them. There was no other option. Given my current condition, I can't return to work. I don't know what tomorrow holds. I could wake up and need to be hospitalized yet again or I could be pain free and enjoying every moment I have with my children or I could be dead. It's no longer a choice as to what I do with my life because it is no longer mine. I am living on borrowed time and for every second I can borrow I will be spending it with my children trying to prepare them for my death to make that process easier. No child should have to lose their parent at such a young age and no spouse should find themselves a widow with young children either. Anyone who thinks this is just another sob story should try living it for just the first week and tell me how it feels. Trust me, your tune will quickly change, mine did.
- perlgeek 13y ago
  > It's sad that when we find out something this devastating (you're dying), that we have to spend our last weeks/months/years worrying about, of all things, money. I thought nearly the same. But my thought went more along the lines of "it's sad that this person's highest priorities are all about money". If it's not in the face of death that you set your priorities on your own accord, then when is it? That said, I can totally understand not leaving the family behind in debt.
  - jaggederest 13y ago
    Debts are generally not something you can leave to your family. They're generally expunged, barring joint debts and things like that. So run it all onto credit cards, by all means.
    - pdpi 13y ago
      Not sure what the US reality on that is. In Portugal, you can and do inherit debt, though the monetary value of the inherited debt can never exceed that of the inherited assets.
      - adventured 13y ago
        In the US, debt is generally tied to an entity called your estate (your financial entity post death, basically). Debt - for example let's say you have a big credit card debt - will be paid by the assets of your estate. Different types of debt often have different priorities (when it comes time for the executor or court to decide what gets paid first or last). As your estate is settled, the debts usually get taken care of from the assets (basically a simple subtraction matter). If there aren't enough assets in the estate to pay the debts, then the creditor is almost always out of luck.
        thaumasiotes 13y ago
        Just to be clear, this system is essentially identical to "debt is inherited, but never in an amount greater than the value of the inherited assets".
- sneak 13y ago
  We spend most of our lives, terminal or not, "worrying about" money. That's the beauty (or perhaps tragedy to some people) of a capitalist society. We are driven by our metric for value. It's not a bad thing.
  - bigs204 13y ago
    damn. that's kind of beautifully brutal way of looking at it.
  - stormbrew 13y ago
    > It's not a bad thing. ... if your 'metric for value' happens to be high enough.
  - Ygg2 13y ago
    Essentially, all lives are terminal (some just sooner than others). Unless you are a jelly fish. Fucking jelly fishes. I'd say that worrying about money isn't completely bad thing.
  - adventured 13y ago
    Has absolutely nothing to do with Capitalism. It's core to existence for any living thing. The need to create value, be productive, acquire food, trade for something, and so on, to sustain one's self. No matter what you are, if you're living, you have to do this, or someone else has to do it for you. If you live in a society where the government, or church, or ... whatever entity, provides everything for you, that still requires someone else to do work for your benefit so you can exist.
    - gress 13y ago
      'Creating value' is a capitalist concept, as is 'being productive.
  - rosser 13y ago
    We are driven by our metric for value. A great many of us feel we're being driven by someone else's metric for value. I, for one, don't find that a good thing at all.
- melling 13y ago
  There are over 7 billion people on the planet. A day doesn't go by without a story like this. We just don't hear about most of them. Someday a person like this will simply go to his doctor, get a prescription, and go on to live a normal life. Rather than dwelling on sadness, maybe we should ask if there isn't something we can do, as a group, to make that day arrive sooner. What would it take to cure, or at least treat, cancer(s)?
  - Blahah 13y ago
    Really quite a huge number of people are asking that question already. And a massively disproportionate amount of science funding goes towards cancer research. Far more people in the world die of communicable and vector-borne diseases or illness related to malnourishment. These issues get much less research attention and funding because so many people in the western world are focussed on cancer. So while my heart goes out to the OP, and I hope his treatment is successful and his family are well provided for, I really don't think what we need is more people to focus on cancer. Lets focus on saving as many lives as possible.
    - melling 13y ago
      Can you provide any data or any additional clarity? There's enough food produced in the world, for example, but it just doesn't get to the people who need it. I'd like to add that I wasn't saying that money is necessarily the answer. The power of crowd-sourcing, for instance, can help in other ways.
      - Blahah 13y ago
        Sure. The WHO produces a report on causes of death wordwide[0]. Heart disease and stroke are the biggest killers, but these are, like cancer, really quite complex. Diarrhoeal diseases and respiratory infections kill a ridiculous number of people, but these are largely solved problems in the western world. Organisations like the Gates Foundation are doing great work exporting what we know about these diseases to the developing world, but governments do a pitiful amount. A number of chronic lifestyle diseases are rising: lung/throat cancer (due to smoking) and diabetes (due to eating sugar). My suggestion is that we should prioritise disease research and treatment based on how many people are dying and how easily those problems could be solved. But because funding bodies are all human, and all in the developed world, the disease they most fear is cancer. Regarding food security, there is technically enough food produced in the world to feed everyone, if we could solve the distribution and storage problems and prevent rich governments' protectionist interference in agricultural markets and corruption in developing nations' governments. But a large amount of that wastage is also not really suitable for human nutrition. Probably the fastest way to alleviate hunger is to enable each part of the world to feed itself with food produced nearby. Because we've reached the limits of arable land in much of the world, this means making more land suitable for food production, finding new ways to provide water, and making crops be able to grow better in different conditions. The FAO's State of Food Insecurity report[1] is a good summary. 0. http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs310/en/ http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs310/en/. 1. http://www.fao.org/publications/sofi/en/ http://www.fao.org/publications/sofi/en/
- not_paul_graham 13y ago
  No one deserves this, especially not at 35. That is far too young. I've had more than a couple of people close to me pass away from cancer and other causes and it all seems very depressing that in some cases you can't really do anything at all. Forgive me for asking but doesn't health insurance cover costs of cancer treatment even in the USA? I really don't want to sound like a narcissist and I'm not trying to judge in the least, but I'm curious why the OP wasn't more diligent about planning ahead in terms of health insurance given he made a decision to have/raise four children. Do people really not take into account stuff like children's education, cost of living expenses per additional member of family, emergencies, black swan events? I know my parents decided to have only X number of kids because they knew that they wouldn't be able to provide well for more than X children. This was a conscious decision given that my father grew up with 7 siblings and my mom says she would have had more children if they would have been able to provide for them. Also I'm genuinely curious whether $20,000 for a final resting place seems like a good amount to put on a list of priorities given all the other costs involved? Mortgage and transportation seem like good goals, but minus the cancer, if some one else decided to raise money from the internet to spend it on traveling, I'm not sure a lot of the comments would be so positive? I'm really sorry for being so negative, but these are general questions that I have and they are in no way directed towards the OP. Cancer sucks. Period.
  - timr 13y ago
    If you're insured in the US (sadly, this is still a fairly big "if"...) the costs of cancer treatment will be covered, but unlike most of the rest of the developed world there are still a lot of caveats: depending on the quality of your coverage, you could end up paying very little, or quite a bit of money. It's not a simple question, unfortunately. That said, it sounds like he's not looking for money for treatment, but for things like paying down the mortgage and car before his income is lost. This is what life insurance is meant to cover, but again, there's a wide range of coverage options and many people don't think about how much to buy, especially when they're young. If you've just bought a house and a car and had a kid you're probably in a lot of recent debt, with the assumption that you'll have a lifetime to pay it down. All it takes is one bad accident to turn that assumption upside down. Get life insurance, folks.
- bananas 13y ago
  Perhaps we should look more towards the Marxism thread yesterday for inspiration on how to resolve this utterly horrible issue. If you have to spend the last of your days worrying about money, society is broken.
girvo 13y ago
I feel nothing but sympathy for Jonathan. I can barely imagine the pain he and his family would be going through :( What are the medical costs for someone with terminal cancer in the USA? I assume they're pretty astronomical, so I can understand why he'd ask for help (I'm donating myself). In terms of his house and the like, I was always led to believe that life insurance was specifically for cases like his? Is life insurance a big thing in America? My parents have always had a lot of cover, but I'm pretty sure that was because of my Dad being a civil engineer and foreman, so his work was sort of dangerous. I don't know much about how life insurance works, mind you, so I'm sort of guessing here, for all I know Jonathan doesn't have any or if he did he's not covered for something like this (and to be would require premiums that are huge, or something). Anyone shed some light for me? Good luck Jonathan. I'm not a religious person, but I can hope for the best to occur, however unlikely.
- MisterBastahrd 13y ago
  Life insurance is something that you have to purchase for sums of that magnitude, and a lot of people are too busy buying other things to worry about spending the 10-20 bucks a month that it costs. Usually an employer will give you an additional survivor's benefit, usually between 10K to up to a year's worth of salary.
  - johnward 13y ago
    Everyone keeps saying this. Where can you spend 10-20 bucks a month and get 100-200k coverage? I pay way more than that for like 50k coverage and I got the plane when I was 23.
    - maxerickson 13y ago
      https://www.statefarm.com/insurance/life/term-life https://www.statefarm.com/insurance/life/term-life (For example) The numbers are particular for a young woman in Illinois, but it won't be egregiously higher for young men.
      - 13y ago
danieltillett 13y ago
There is nothing I can realy say other than I wish you and your family the best.
alandarev 13y ago
The story is particularly touching, as it is a 'regular' person speaking. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, you reminded me of my own vulnerability and that we all have to be prepared for the worst case scenario. Best of my sincere wishes.
bigs204 13y ago
Looks like the website might be on the verge of getting hn ddos'd. Can someone inform him/possibly hook him up with mirror/hosting? I think opening up bitcoin wallet will be helpful too. Memento mori - deepest thanks for a wakeup call.
kartman 13y ago
I hope for the best for you. One suggestion to use as you see fit, the overhead on the donate is quite high - maybe you can create and list a bitcoin address you control on your blog.
jmadsen 13y ago
OP here: His donation page is at: https://www.giveforward.com/fundraiser/w704/beating-cancer-one-dollar-at-a-time-with-jonathan-dale https://www.giveforward.com/fundraiser/w704/beating-cancer-o... which can handle the load much better Should have thought to put that up earlier
- makmanalp 13y ago
  Anyone notice that the SSL cert for the donation page (https://secure.giveforward.com/donate/119408 https://secure.giveforward.com/donate/119408) has issues? Firefox says "does not supply identity information". Someone noticed here but got a canned answer: http://help.giveforward.com/customer/portal/questions/1243524-ssl-certificate-isn-t-identified http://help.giveforward.com/customer/portal/questions/124352... Could anyone verify that this is fine? I'm going to donate if it is. Thanks! edit: Looks like safari is fine with it, and a IceyEC mentions chrome is fine too. Probably firefox just being overzealous. Donate away!
  - IceyEC 13y ago
    Chrome is perfectly happy with the cert
    - killnine 13y ago
      im getting 'page is not secure' loading with insecure elements such as pictures. Loading mixed (insecure) display content on a secure page "http://static.giveforward.com/favicon.ico?1394547964"[Learn http://static.giveforward.com/favicon.ico?1394547964"[Learn More]
  - scott_karana 13y ago
    If memory serves, it just means it's not an Extended Validation certificate, which is supposed to physically verify the identify of the issued business/person, rather than just be a generic (but fully secure) cert.
- jmadsen 13y ago
  They are awake in Texas. We've been noticed :-) https://d4l3.com/blogs/darthclue/entries/treasure-good-days https://d4l3.com/blogs/darthclue/entries/treasure-good-days "At around 5AM, I awoke to the sound of Michelle crying while staring at her phone and mumbling incoherently. She eventually calmed down enough to tell me that she was being spammed with Give Forward donation notifications. It took me a bit to figure out that somehow, my 'Bucket List' had been posted to https://news.ycombinator.com/ https://news.ycombinator.com/, aka hackernews, and was the number 1 result"
stefantalpalaru 13y ago
So the house you purchased and the van you upgraded to are not yours, disposing of your body costs more than a car, visiting family means you have to stay in a hotel, the basic survival needs of your wife and four children are not guaranteed and you want to visit Disneyland and meet celebrities before you die? Capitalism is beautiful.
- VMG 13y ago
  can't miss an opportunity for pointless snark, eh?
  - naner 13y ago
    Not really pointless... guy is dying and worried about the financial security of his family, which I completely understand, but then outlines some financially irresponsible expenses? How about posting on facebook "I'm dying, here's a fund we started to help support my wife and children in my absence" and leave it at that. This comes across as entitled and unrealistic. That being said, his situation is extremely shitty and it is probably worthwhile for anyone with the means to help him out for that reason alone.
    - danielweber 13y ago
      His priorities break down into 1) paying off debt so his currently income-less wife has some breathing room 2) spending time with family. He's not snorting cocaine off a dead hooker's ass here.
      - RankingMember 13y ago
        If you're going to go out in a blaze of hedonism you'd think you'd pay the extra couple of bucks for the hooker to be alive. :P
    - grifpete 13y ago
      Dear oh dear. You really are a sad case, aren't you?
piyushpr134 13y ago
Tragic as this story is, I would like to raise a point that could make life easier in event of untimely death i.e. term insurance. Term insurance is something that one should always get after getting married (or even before if your family is dependent on you). Multiple term insurances can be bought so you can keep buying more as your liabilities increase.
- laichzeit0 13y ago
  In some countries if you have multiple life-insurance policies, only one of them may actually pay out. Be warned.
rjwje 13y ago
berkcankat
xwintermutex 13y ago
Two years ago, when I was 28, a 20cm large tumor was found between my lungs, after increasing problems with breathing. I was lucky enough to have "the right cancer", and to live in a western nation. As far as scans can tell, it is gone. I wish this guy the very very best.
eXpl0it3r 13y ago
Yet another example why I try not to make any debts, especially when it comes to such large numbers, because you never know what tomorrow holds. Either you have the money or you don't. It really saddens me that it's normal nowadays to live on debts. I rather live my life less luxurious but debts free. After all, I wish them all the best!
- chii 13y ago
  but if you're smart about what kind of debt you take on, and take measures to not burden your loved ones with your debt, it can be a wise thing to have some debt. Not debt for a vacation or luxury, but debt for investment or growth of money. If the only reason to not have debt is because you fear the risk of dying and burdening your family/loved ones, then you are not making the most of the opportunities available.
- adventured 13y ago
  Obviously to be fair, generally people don't expect to get a potentially terminal cancer at 35 either. At worst one might think they have 20 or 30 years to deal with a mortgage taken on at 35. I can't find a fault with taking on a mortgage at 35 when you have a family. Particularly if you can afford the payments. I'd argue given the historically low cost of mortgage debt today, the cost of renting + trying to save to one day buy a house for your family, is a worse choice.
huhtenberg 13y ago
While this is up at the top - http://www.skincancer.org/skin-cancer-information/melanoma http://www.skincancer.org/skin-cancer-information/melanoma
- epsylon 13y ago
  Unfortunately, your comment isn't at the top. There are very simple guidelines that can help prevent melanoma, especially for people at risk: - Avoid exposing your skin to the sun, especially when it's high. Use high SPF (30+) sun screen (water resistant if you'll be swimming); wear longsleeves, hats and sunglasses. (Good sunglasses are important, as you can have ocular melanoma) - Obviously, don't use tanning booths. - Plan a visit with a dermatologist at least once per year. This is very important. Just like you'd get your tooth, eyes, etc... checked every year, take the habit to see a dermatologist. - If you're especially at risk, regulary check your skin for signs of changes. Nowadays it's easy to take pictures with a digital camera (or phone) so that you can see how the spots and moles evolve. How do you know if you're in the population at risk? If you have moles, OR are fair-skinned / haired, OR have freckles (all of these are usuall signs of an overall general sensitivity to sun exposure), you are at risk. Obviously, if there are family antecedants of skin cancer, you are at risk. Also, if your work or hobbies expose your skin regularly and for prolonged periods of time to the Sun, you are at risk. Personal story: I have a friend who has had a mole removed in the knee, and which proved to be ultimately (after testing) malignant. Fortunately this was caught early. And I've had personnally a mole removed in the back, though it was found to be benign. Skin cancer risk can be greatly reduced by these simple precautions, so please people, try to follow these.
- adventured 13y ago
  Thanks for posting that. I'm a high risk candidate for skin cancer, it's a constant concern. Knowledge is definitely key.
ryandetzel 13y ago
As a father in my thirties this hits home but I can't help but wonder WHY DON'T YOU HAVE LIFE INSURANCE? This is what it's for! For the cost of a few dinners out a year you could have 500k of coverage and right now you'd be spending time with your loved ones instead of worrying about money. Please, if you have dependents (people that need your income) buy life insurance. It's cheap (if you're young and healthy) and death can happen to anyone of us at anytime for any reason. / end rant. I feel for you though, this is super sad and I can't imagine not seeing my kids grow up. I wish you the best.
darthclue 13y ago
Jonathan here. Being woke up by my wife crying because the donations just aren't stopping is both heart-breaking and comforting. For those of you who haven't seen the 'Bucket List' post, here's what it says at the very top: As I try to deal with the reality that is my impending death I can't help but wonder how many things I might have been able to accomplish given just a little more time. When I was diagnosed, I had only one thing that I wanted; to live long enough to see my children grow up. The reality is that the odds of me living long enough to see my children grow are quite slim. The only available treatment will eventually stop working and then it's just a matter of time. This is the list of things that I want to accomplish while I still have time. Many of them aren't for me. They are for my family. They are meant to provide security for my wife and kids so that they can celebrate my life instead of mourning my death when that time comes. My priorities are taking care of my family just as they always have been. Sometimes, we just can't plan far enough ahead to deal with something like this. If you saw the original page you would also note that Trips and meeting celebrities is not high on my list of priorities. Those are things that would provide me with a small boost on an emotional level but I don't consider them something that must happen before I die. Life Insurance: I changed jobs and don't have any and now that I'm terminal, the cost for obtaining it is prohibitive. I agree that this is poor planning on my part, however, I'm 35 and no one expects to find out that they are going to die at 35. We all think we have plenty of time and the reality is that we don't. Health Insurance: Thank god that I have this or we would've been sunk from the beginning. Despite having insurance, there continue to be ongoing costs and once I go on long-term disability I'll be paying cobra rates to keep the same coverage. I have no idea how expensive this will be but I don't expect it to be cheap. This really isn't about me or the money, this is about my family and trying to ease their pain. I know that I'm living on borrowed time right now and I could be dead at any moment. All I want to do is spend as much time as I can with my kids so that they know I loved them. You try telling a 6 year old that her daddy has cancer and will be dead before she turns 8. Hardest thing I've ever had to do and I would never wish it any one. For those of you that have helped us, thank you is not enough.
- adventured 13y ago
  Is there anything people can do to help further beyond donations? Anything your family needs?
triberian 13y ago
Sorry to hear, look into THC oil.
napolux 13y ago
Is there any PayPal account available?
- syntheticnature 13y ago
  Looks like it's being done here, there is some discussion of it upthread: https://www.giveforward.com/fundraiser/w704/beating-cancer-one-dollar-at-a-time-with-jonathan-dale https://www.giveforward.com/fundraiser/w704/beating-cancer-o...
ktzar 13y ago
Instead of donating to this guy I'd prefer to advocate for a free health system and a system that doesn't fuck up a family that has had enough bad luck to see its father die. Having someone in his last months of life begging for money to not leave his family screwed up seems like a waste of those precious last weeks.
- morgante 13y ago
  > Instead of donating to this guy I'd prefer to advocate for a free health system and a system that doesn't fuck up a family that has had enough bad luck to see its father die. It doesn't appear that health care costs are a major issue in this scenario. Even with universal healthcare, a dead breadwinner is going to significantly impact a family's financial situation.
- aestra 13y ago
  This has nothing, or very little, to do with healthcare costs. This guy has a lot of debt that he took out before the cancer.
MatthewWilkes 13y ago
20k for a funeral? Really? Seemed legit until that.
- jiggbenice 13y ago
  Good grief...the comments on Hacker News never cease to amaze... ...just to give a representative example, last September my Dad died. 1) We had his remains cremated. 2) We got said remains without anything fancier than the cardboard box they came in. 3) We scattered his ashes ourselves as a family without any visitation, funeral ceremony, or anything. No gravestone, no casket, no wake, no ceremony, no officiant. Total cost: $6,000. $20,000 is absolutely realistic if he wants to be buried with an average casket, average headstone and average ceremony.
  - genwin 13y ago
    It was $6K just for cremation? Or you had other costs?
    - jiggbenice 13y ago
      Well, from our perspective that's all that was done -- his body was cremated and given to us in ash-form. But I'm sure from the funeral home's perspective they did whatever preparations they had to do, processing, helped us put his obituary together and submitted it to publications, administration costs, etc.
  - syntheticnature 13y ago
    Thank you for this. I am giving in to my urge to link it to some of the comments decrying the funereal cost given. I was told to set aside $20k fifteen years ago -- I'd expect now it would be much more.
- Theodores 13y ago
  It is a racket. One of the Mitford sisters pointed it out a while back: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/525561.The_American_Way_of_Death http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/525561.The_American_Way_o...
linker3000 13y ago
This hits a nerve - a neighbour (in the UK) is dying of a brain tumour and the NHS does not have the facilities for effective treatment. There's a fundraising campaign to send Gavin to the USA for specialist treatment which may save his life, and he's just been told he may not be around this time next year without it. http://www.helpgavin.co.uk/ http://www.helpgavin.co.uk/ Good luck to everybody facing similar timelines. [Edit: I can't spell]
jreed91 13y ago
Hi johnathan. My father just passed away from stage IV melanoma. He was 52. Luckily he left us financially sound. But if there is anything I can do to help you out please don't hesitate to ask. I've done my research on any treatment you could possibly have to beat this cancer. Melanoma is becoming more beatable every day and people are living for years even when they are stage IV. If you have questions please email at jreed91@gmail.com
n_coats 13y ago
I live in Orlando, 30 minutes from all the parks. Please reach out to me if and when you and your family make this trip. I will help in any way I can. I know, from my personal network, that I can help in getting free tickets and an employee rate at one of the park hotels. I'd be more than happy to provide transportation for you and your family to and from the airport as well. If you make it this way, please contact me, I'd love to help!
lopatamd 13y ago
Adopt a ketogenic diet and you'll have a chance of survival man! check out the research on this diet (by starving the cancer cells, without eating sugar)
danielweber 13y ago
This comment page makes me rage. About a third blame the guy, as if buying a house at the age of 32 is crazy. About a third just use his tragedy as a soapbox to knee-jerk blame the American health care system, as if people dying of cancer in other countries don't face a loss of income. The remaining third give me some hope for humanity.
- jiggbenice 13y ago
  That about sums it up.
lnanek2 13y ago
Kind of bizarre seeing someone else's value system which is completely alien to my own. If I was leaving my wife and kids with mortgage and car loan debt, I wouldn't spend $10-20k on a graveyard plot, that's for sure. I don't think I would in any case, I'd just get cremated or whatever the cheapest option is.
- futurist 13y ago
  Right. I think this is what bothers me about this list. It's material driven. There's a saying that goes (paraphrasing) "don't wish for better circumstances, wish to be a better person." For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Mark 8:36 KJV. Jonathan, you and your family must look to the Lord Jesus Christ. He is your judge. Through Him all things are possible.
  - jeffehobbs 13y ago
    Give me a break. Think about what you are saying and how and to who you are saying it.
    - futurist 13y ago
      I did. How about you do the same?
  - talmir 13y ago
    Yep, lets just jump on the god-phone and call god to get him to help him out in this instance. Just like he helps starving or diseased people throughout the world every day. Or my uncle, who died of cancer recently. The list seems material because he is worried about his family. They need to eat and they need a roof over their head. We are all a bit material. I notice you are using hacker news which suggests you must have some kind of an income and access to technology. He is dying. He is worried. Would you not feel the same? How about, instead of quoting bible bullshit to help you not so silently judge a man with cancer, you shut the heck up and donate a tiny bit to the man so he can live the rest of his days with that much less worry? Jonathan : Find solace where you can. My heart goes out to you.
eric_the_read 13y ago
My father died at 38, from a cancer, and I just had some severely atypical skin removed. This story hits very close to home for me. My deepest sympathies go to everyone involved.
johnnymonster 13y ago
This really sucks! Does he not have any life insurance? I remember when I was working full time, I had a life insurance policy worth 5x my salary, which should cover the costs for the things he wants to pay off. After becoming a contractor, this was one of the first things I secured. I didn't want my family to be left with nothing when I died.
chaostheory 13y ago
> Pay off our mortgage : $186,000 This is a little strange to me. Unless he was a freelancer, every tech job that I'm aware of has decent life insurance options that would easily cover this. If you add a few more dollars it covers college as well. I definitely can't stress the importance of getting life insurance from a reputable company.
- gallamine 13y ago
  My company only offered a $50k insurance policy. You can purchase $500k for <$20/month for most people.
  - chaostheory 13y ago
    yup that's my point.
vans 13y ago
Sorry if i seem to be rude, but even if you're dying, you're still a human being and i will respect you. So, i won't be full of mercy and so on, i'm just going to be genuine. Your story is sad, as the story for million of people dying from this shit. But, if i help you, maybe i'd be ok with my conscience but this won't change anything for the 999 999 people remaining. If i choose to give money to fight against cancer, it would be for research and not for a particular case (even if it's sad). That being said, i truly understand that emotion and love drive me to give you some money, but i have to stay efficient and fair.
- Fomite 13y ago
  You're treating these like they're exclusive goals. There's no reason you can't give to more than one cause.
  - glhaynes 13y ago
    But any money you're giving can only be given once.
AccountsBlow 13y ago
so STFU and die already
avenueb 13y ago
The #1 reason I limited myself to 2 kids was so that I did not have to drive a mini-van. The #2 reason was my concern I could not adequately provide for them.
mattholtom 13y ago
The giveforward site is now really active. I hope it is load friendly because it is being hugged very hard right now..
deleted 13y ago
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ilovecookies 13y ago
Even though I feel for your situation... Seriously this has nothing to do with hacker news. This is more of a reddit post that has snuck in here somehow.
- ak39 13y ago
  Exactly. Maybe a social experiment to see how folks react to internet begging? Dunno. But why is it here on HN? I'm not saying that the story isn't genuine, but there's no evidence or proof that it is and yet people are donating. That's amazing. Or maybe not.
jkochis 13y ago
Whatever you do, don't eat the food at Casa Bonita! They require you to purchase a meal in order to go in, but DO NOT EAT IT. You can eat the sopaipillas though.
mmphosis 13y ago
The lifetime risk of developing cancer: Males: 43.92% Females: 38.00% http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancerbasics/lifetime-probability-of-developing-or-dying-from-cancer http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancerbasics/lifetime-probabili...
edem 13y ago
Take a lot of Omega3+D vitamins and live on instead.
- brunoqc 13y ago
  Bullshit.
  - edem 13y ago
    Typical ad hominem reaction. :)
    - brunoqc 13y ago
      I'm not attacking you. I'm attacking your claim. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
edwardchiapet 13y ago
Donated -- stay strong, man! Love your story and your priority list!
shivmsit 13y ago
Cancer is devastating and heartbreaking. I lost my brother at age 24, felt agony of cancer patient. Don't know why we can't cure cancer?
- manish_gill 13y ago
  Read up "Emperor of All Maladies".
  - shivmsit 13y ago
    I read it, but I'm hooping that we will find a cure. It took 100 years to find a cause of scurvy.
thinkpad20 13y ago
My dad died from cancer at 36. I was 10 and had a 7-year-old brother and 11-year-old sister. I guess I can relate in some way, being on the opposite end of it. I'm sure I don't need to tell you to spend as much time as possible with your kids, because they will treasure every memory as they grow up. My heart goes out to you and I wish you and your family the best possible.
deleted 13y ago
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grifpete 13y ago
Is no help possible from the new personalized targeted T cell therapies?
terragold 13y ago
I have sympathy for this guy as a human being with cancer, especially with a family and all. But I have no sympathy for this guy as a person and for the financial choices he has made. Having 4 kids, big house and car, expensive grave, need to travel, meet celebrities screams greed, irresponsibility and entitlement. You could have not had 4 kids and had 2. You could have rented a place and bought a used car. The problem isn't wanting something better, the problem is that you decided to buy those things without earning it and with money you did not have. All these are choices you made as a person. And to take your family down with you is selfish and irresponsible. Definitely won't be donating.
- hfourm 13y ago
  Look I get why people are complaining about the expensive funeral and travel expenses, but don't question his character for having 4 kids. Even more so, if you don't want to donate -- don't, no reason to go all nerd mode about it.
  - jessedhillon 13y ago
    Why is that an illegitimate criticism? Kids cost several tens of thousands of dollars in their first decade. A family which can't afford a $190k house and an old Buick should probably consider well whether they can afford 6 kids. Spoiler: no, they can't. Isn't it better to raise 2 kids in lower-middle class than 6 in utter poverty?
- vellum 13y ago
  The problem isn't wanting something better, the problem is that you decided to buy those things without earning it and with money you did not have. What? Most people don't pay cash for a house or save up the full 18-year cost before having a kid. He made these choices before he was diagnosed and they weren't unreasonable given their salaries at the time.
frade33 13y ago
I wish I had enough money to help you out. All I can offer is, a sincere prayer for you and your family. May God help you and your family and ease your the trouble.
jankerz 13y ago
My father was in the same situation when he was 38 and somehow managed to make it to 48. I truly hope you are graced with the same luck as him.
tirant 13y ago
I feel very sorry for him, one shouldn't need to think about money when he has just (hopefully not) a few months left. Said that, wouldn't it be cheaper for him and his family to move to an European country, and get therapy there? In most europeans countries you just pay a low and flat rate (around 100€ a month) and you can get Cancer treatment or whatever is needed. I really want to help him, but I hate that at the end all the money will go into the greedy american health industry.
- genwin 13y ago
  Wouldn't he have to become a citizen first, or at least have a job there, not just be a tourist?
baby 13y ago
> Prepare for / pay for my final arrangments : $20,000 I'm not here to bash, but with so much money problem why do people want to spend so much money on their death? If I die I just want people to get rid of my body in the cheapest way possible. Just burn me or give me to science.
- pokstad 13y ago
  OR a tibetan sky burial: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_burial http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_burial It's considered to be a one last sign of generosity to nature when you no longer need your body. Also, it was probably started because the land is too hard and tough to dig up in the mountains of Tibet (a.k.a. cost effective and practical).
  - syntheticnature 13y ago
    Note: may not be legal where you live.
- syntheticnature 13y ago
  "Just burn me" isn't cheap -- heck, this example from else-thread is worse than what I found with some research: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7393011 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7393011 Also, your family and friends might want to see you before science does whatever with you, and that will cost more than any of us would like to think it will. Funerals aren't cheap, and I was told when buying life insurance to expect all funeral expenses (viewings, whatever is done with the body) to easily be $20k.
  - baby 13y ago
    Wait, if my familly wants to bring me to some woods and burn me in a fire, can't they just do it?
    - ufo 13y ago
      You need a better fire than that if you want to properly cremate someone instead of making some barbecue.
northband 13y ago
Curious if you've heard of http://phoenixtears.ca/ http://phoenixtears.ca/ I don't know if it works for everyone but I can vouch that it does for some.
josh_fyi 13y ago
Let me get this right. Major diseases are the most important reason for health insurance to exist. But in the US, if you get a major disease, you lose your job, then within 18 months your coverage, and then the insurance is gone. Is this correct?
- 345723 13y ago
  Not anymore. Now you can get an individual policy that can't be terminated and the price is fixed based on age.
- genwin 13y ago
  Not so much an issue now with ObamaCare. If you can afford it you can be covered regardless of job circumstances.
sq1020 13y ago
Everyone's death is impending. Life is by it's very nature limited. It baffles me as to how some very intelligent people seem to believe that we can "beat" death, that death can be cured! What a curious notion advocated by none other than the director of engineering at Google! Someone once asked a sage, "Why do we fear death and cling to life so much?" The sage said, "We fear death because we have prepared nothing for it while we have constructed for ourselves a comfortable, familiar life. Why would you look forward to going to something for which you haven't prepared anything and why would you look forward to leaving something for which you invested all of your time and effort?"
BrandonMarc 13y ago
This set of comics seems apt. http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Category:Cancer http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Category:Cancer
mentaat 13y ago
20k for burial? is that below or above average?
danielweber 13y ago
Changing the headline on this article REALLY REALLY SUCKS.
snarfy 13y ago
Skip the resting place costs. Get a dirt cheap cremation. Do the funeral at home. It really doesn't matter. My mother passed not too long ago and I inherited half a dozen dead relative's ashes to go throw away. Your family will be much better off with the $20k than with memories of a church and possibly a tombstone to go visit maybe once or twice in their lives.
siculars 13y ago
How about a Star Trek catan tabletop webisode with OP, wilw, aw and fd. Just film as a regular episode and don't mention the C word. I'm sure someone here could reach out to @wilw...
peter303 13y ago
Star Wars VII in late 2015
kimonos 13y ago
This post makes me sad.. I hope and pray that you recover and enjoy life longer..
koala_advert 13y ago
These title changes are getting ridiculous. The original title was actually descriptive. I have no idea what this article is about without going to the comments or clicking on it. The whole point of a link title is to describe the link.
mynameishere 13y ago
Depressing that someone facing death would worry about Disney World and Casa Bonita. I spent a vacation at Disney World when I was 9 years old and recognized it as a plastic mold-injected bore--not in those words at the time, but good god I knew it was a tiresome waste of life, even at that age. Casa Bonita is a South Park episode. Enough said about that. But hey, you're the one who didn't buy life insurance like a responsible parent, so a non-sad sob story is your only chance of paying off your SUV. Great. Why do I care about your SUV? Also, why do I care whether you get a pricey funeral rather than a county funeral? Also, why are you more important than all of us who are born to die? Also, why was this posted?
- jquery 13y ago
  > Also, why was this posted? Very meta of you. Who are you to judge what someone likes? If you don't want to donate, fine, but do you also have to spit on the beggar as you walk past? Your post is vile.
  - Aloha 13y ago
    HN is a community first, I wish people would remember this - I'd rather see posts about us taking care of our own, rather than: Check out my new app its X for Y New Agile Ruby Framework.. Or any other number of buzzword compliant posts.
- Aloha 13y ago
  Dude is dying - who exactly are you to criticize the way he wants to spend his days with his family? Beyond that, my mom took me to Disneyland when I was about 9 - while I could tell it was a constructed environment, it's a very very pretty one, and I make life experiences I still think about now, some 22 years later. I'm 31, and while I don't have kids, I dont have life insurance either, beyond a small 10k policy - no one expects to die younger than 40, and really, if you'd read, you'd see he recently changed jobs, hence the lack of insurance - beyond that, if you hadn't noticed its been a hard couple of years recently when it comes to the job market and economy, many parts of the country have only started to recover in the last 18 months.
- 13y ago
jordangurnzz 13y ago
Jonathan good luck man I have stage 4 Melanoma with tumors throughout as well, been on b RAF for a few months and getting in to til ( I hope) end of month. If you ever need someone to talk life or death with please reach out. Jordan jordangurnzz@gmail.com chemoblog.WordPress.com

789 points by jmadsen 13y ago

Ygg2 13y ago

:( I lost my grandma to cancer, but from what I've heard cancer in young people is even more devastating (young cells reproduce more quickly).

bherms 13y ago

It's sad that when we find out something this devastating (you're dying), that we have to spend our last weeks/months/years worrying about, of all things, money. Nobody deserves this sort of thing happening to them, and when it does happen, it hurts me to think they can't spend their last months on earth focused on enjoying time with their loved ones and instead have to live in fear that their family is going to be able to survive without an extra paycheck. It should be a time of finding peace within the chaos that is life, but instead it's like adding insult to injury. :(

thaumasiotes 13y ago
Where's your sympathy for the people who don't have cancer but have to go in to work every day because they don't want their family to starve? Should they not enjoy any time with their loved ones? Your viewpoint seems incoherent to me; we can't just support everyone out of common brotherly love.
- bherms 13y ago
  I'm not saying there's a fix for it... Or that it's even a broken system. I just, out of the kindness of my heart, wish a guy down on his luck could at least have some worry lifted off of him when his life is literally ending. Do I feel for everyone else struggling in the world? In some cases, yes, in others, no. Circumstance dictates my feelings. Tell me another sob story and I'll likely feel for that person as well.
- darthclue 13y ago
  The same place it's always been. I can't count the number of times that I've wished I could just stay home with my kids and enjoy being with them. But I had to choose between providing for them or being with them. There was no other option. Given my current condition, I can't return to work. I don't know what tomorrow holds. I could wake up and need to be hospitalized yet again or I could be pain free and enjoying every moment I have with my children or I could be dead. It's no longer a choice as to what I do with my life because it is no longer mine. I am living on borrowed time and for every second I can borrow I will be spending it with my children trying to prepare them for my death to make that process easier. No child should have to lose their parent at such a young age and no spouse should find themselves a widow with young children either. Anyone who thinks this is just another sob story should try living it for just the first week and tell me how it feels. Trust me, your tune will quickly change, mine did.
perlgeek 13y ago
> It's sad that when we find out something this devastating (you're dying), that we have to spend our last weeks/months/years worrying about, of all things, money. I thought nearly the same. But my thought went more along the lines of "it's sad that this person's highest priorities are all about money". If it's not in the face of death that you set your priorities on your own accord, then when is it? That said, I can totally understand not leaving the family behind in debt.
- jaggederest 13y ago
  Debts are generally not something you can leave to your family. They're generally expunged, barring joint debts and things like that. So run it all onto credit cards, by all means.
  - pdpi 13y ago
    Not sure what the US reality on that is. In Portugal, you can and do inherit debt, though the monetary value of the inherited debt can never exceed that of the inherited assets.
    - adventured 13y ago
      In the US, debt is generally tied to an entity called your estate (your financial entity post death, basically). Debt - for example let's say you have a big credit card debt - will be paid by the assets of your estate. Different types of debt often have different priorities (when it comes time for the executor or court to decide what gets paid first or last). As your estate is settled, the debts usually get taken care of from the assets (basically a simple subtraction matter). If there aren't enough assets in the estate to pay the debts, then the creditor is almost always out of luck.
      - thaumasiotes 13y ago
        Just to be clear, this system is essentially identical to "debt is inherited, but never in an amount greater than the value of the inherited assets".
sneak 13y ago
We spend most of our lives, terminal or not, "worrying about" money. That's the beauty (or perhaps tragedy to some people) of a capitalist society. We are driven by our metric for value. It's not a bad thing.
- bigs204 13y ago
  damn. that's kind of beautifully brutal way of looking at it.
- stormbrew 13y ago
  > It's not a bad thing. ... if your 'metric for value' happens to be high enough.
- Ygg2 13y ago
  Essentially, all lives are terminal (some just sooner than others). Unless you are a jelly fish. Fucking jelly fishes. I'd say that worrying about money isn't completely bad thing.
- adventured 13y ago
  Has absolutely nothing to do with Capitalism. It's core to existence for any living thing. The need to create value, be productive, acquire food, trade for something, and so on, to sustain one's self. No matter what you are, if you're living, you have to do this, or someone else has to do it for you. If you live in a society where the government, or church, or ... whatever entity, provides everything for you, that still requires someone else to do work for your benefit so you can exist.
  - gress 13y ago
    'Creating value' is a capitalist concept, as is 'being productive.
- rosser 13y ago
  We are driven by our metric for value. A great many of us feel we're being driven by someone else's metric for value. I, for one, don't find that a good thing at all.
melling 13y ago
There are over 7 billion people on the planet. A day doesn't go by without a story like this. We just don't hear about most of them. Someday a person like this will simply go to his doctor, get a prescription, and go on to live a normal life. Rather than dwelling on sadness, maybe we should ask if there isn't something we can do, as a group, to make that day arrive sooner. What would it take to cure, or at least treat, cancer(s)?
- Blahah 13y ago
  Really quite a huge number of people are asking that question already. And a massively disproportionate amount of science funding goes towards cancer research. Far more people in the world die of communicable and vector-borne diseases or illness related to malnourishment. These issues get much less research attention and funding because so many people in the western world are focussed on cancer. So while my heart goes out to the OP, and I hope his treatment is successful and his family are well provided for, I really don't think what we need is more people to focus on cancer. Lets focus on saving as many lives as possible.
  - melling 13y ago
    Can you provide any data or any additional clarity? There's enough food produced in the world, for example, but it just doesn't get to the people who need it. I'd like to add that I wasn't saying that money is necessarily the answer. The power of crowd-sourcing, for instance, can help in other ways.
    - Blahah 13y ago
      Sure. The WHO produces a report on causes of death wordwide[0]. Heart disease and stroke are the biggest killers, but these are, like cancer, really quite complex. Diarrhoeal diseases and respiratory infections kill a ridiculous number of people, but these are largely solved problems in the western world. Organisations like the Gates Foundation are doing great work exporting what we know about these diseases to the developing world, but governments do a pitiful amount. A number of chronic lifestyle diseases are rising: lung/throat cancer (due to smoking) and diabetes (due to eating sugar). My suggestion is that we should prioritise disease research and treatment based on how many people are dying and how easily those problems could be solved. But because funding bodies are all human, and all in the developed world, the disease they most fear is cancer. Regarding food security, there is technically enough food produced in the world to feed everyone, if we could solve the distribution and storage problems and prevent rich governments' protectionist interference in agricultural markets and corruption in developing nations' governments. But a large amount of that wastage is also not really suitable for human nutrition. Probably the fastest way to alleviate hunger is to enable each part of the world to feed itself with food produced nearby. Because we've reached the limits of arable land in much of the world, this means making more land suitable for food production, finding new ways to provide water, and making crops be able to grow better in different conditions. The FAO's State of Food Insecurity report[1] is a good summary. 0. http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs310/en/ http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs310/en/. 1. http://www.fao.org/publications/sofi/en/ http://www.fao.org/publications/sofi/en/
not_paul_graham 13y ago
No one deserves this, especially not at 35. That is far too young. I've had more than a couple of people close to me pass away from cancer and other causes and it all seems very depressing that in some cases you can't really do anything at all. Forgive me for asking but doesn't health insurance cover costs of cancer treatment even in the USA? I really don't want to sound like a narcissist and I'm not trying to judge in the least, but I'm curious why the OP wasn't more diligent about planning ahead in terms of health insurance given he made a decision to have/raise four children. Do people really not take into account stuff like children's education, cost of living expenses per additional member of family, emergencies, black swan events? I know my parents decided to have only X number of kids because they knew that they wouldn't be able to provide well for more than X children. This was a conscious decision given that my father grew up with 7 siblings and my mom says she would have had more children if they would have been able to provide for them. Also I'm genuinely curious whether $20,000 for a final resting place seems like a good amount to put on a list of priorities given all the other costs involved? Mortgage and transportation seem like good goals, but minus the cancer, if some one else decided to raise money from the internet to spend it on traveling, I'm not sure a lot of the comments would be so positive? I'm really sorry for being so negative, but these are general questions that I have and they are in no way directed towards the OP. Cancer sucks. Period.
- timr 13y ago
  If you're insured in the US (sadly, this is still a fairly big "if"...) the costs of cancer treatment will be covered, but unlike most of the rest of the developed world there are still a lot of caveats: depending on the quality of your coverage, you could end up paying very little, or quite a bit of money. It's not a simple question, unfortunately. That said, it sounds like he's not looking for money for treatment, but for things like paying down the mortgage and car before his income is lost. This is what life insurance is meant to cover, but again, there's a wide range of coverage options and many people don't think about how much to buy, especially when they're young. If you've just bought a house and a car and had a kid you're probably in a lot of recent debt, with the assumption that you'll have a lifetime to pay it down. All it takes is one bad accident to turn that assumption upside down. Get life insurance, folks.
bananas 13y ago
Perhaps we should look more towards the Marxism thread yesterday for inspiration on how to resolve this utterly horrible issue. If you have to spend the last of your days worrying about money, society is broken.

girvo 13y ago

I feel nothing but sympathy for Jonathan. I can barely imagine the pain he and his family would be going through :( What are the medical costs for someone with terminal cancer in the USA? I assume they're pretty astronomical, so I can understand why he'd ask for help (I'm donating myself). In terms of his house and the like, I was always led to believe that life insurance was specifically for cases like his? Is life insurance a big thing in America? My parents have always had a lot of cover, but I'm pretty sure that was because of my Dad being a civil engineer and foreman, so his work was sort of dangerous. I don't know much about how life insurance works, mind you, so I'm sort of guessing here, for all I know Jonathan doesn't have any or if he did he's not covered for something like this (and to be would require premiums that are huge, or something). Anyone shed some light for me? Good luck Jonathan. I'm not a religious person, but I can hope for the best to occur, however unlikely.

MisterBastahrd 13y ago
Life insurance is something that you have to purchase for sums of that magnitude, and a lot of people are too busy buying other things to worry about spending the 10-20 bucks a month that it costs. Usually an employer will give you an additional survivor's benefit, usually between 10K to up to a year's worth of salary.
- johnward 13y ago
  Everyone keeps saying this. Where can you spend 10-20 bucks a month and get 100-200k coverage? I pay way more than that for like 50k coverage and I got the plane when I was 23.
  - maxerickson 13y ago
    https://www.statefarm.com/insurance/life/term-life https://www.statefarm.com/insurance/life/term-life (For example) The numbers are particular for a young woman in Illinois, but it won't be egregiously higher for young men.
    - 13y ago

danieltillett 13y ago

There is nothing I can realy say other than I wish you and your family the best.

alandarev 13y ago

The story is particularly touching, as it is a 'regular' person speaking. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, you reminded me of my own vulnerability and that we all have to be prepared for the worst case scenario. Best of my sincere wishes.

bigs204 13y ago

Looks like the website might be on the verge of getting hn ddos'd. Can someone inform him/possibly hook him up with mirror/hosting? I think opening up bitcoin wallet will be helpful too. Memento mori - deepest thanks for a wakeup call.

kartman 13y ago

I hope for the best for you. One suggestion to use as you see fit, the overhead on the donate is quite high - maybe you can create and list a bitcoin address you control on your blog.

jmadsen 13y ago

OP here: His donation page is at: https://www.giveforward.com/fundraiser/w704/beating-cancer-one-dollar-at-a-time-with-jonathan-dale https://www.giveforward.com/fundraiser/w704/beating-cancer-o... which can handle the load much better Should have thought to put that up earlier

makmanalp 13y ago
Anyone notice that the SSL cert for the donation page (https://secure.giveforward.com/donate/119408 https://secure.giveforward.com/donate/119408) has issues? Firefox says "does not supply identity information". Someone noticed here but got a canned answer: http://help.giveforward.com/customer/portal/questions/1243524-ssl-certificate-isn-t-identified http://help.giveforward.com/customer/portal/questions/124352... Could anyone verify that this is fine? I'm going to donate if it is. Thanks! edit: Looks like safari is fine with it, and a IceyEC mentions chrome is fine too. Probably firefox just being overzealous. Donate away!
- IceyEC 13y ago
  Chrome is perfectly happy with the cert
  - killnine 13y ago
    im getting 'page is not secure' loading with insecure elements such as pictures. Loading mixed (insecure) display content on a secure page "http://static.giveforward.com/favicon.ico?1394547964"[Learn http://static.giveforward.com/favicon.ico?1394547964"[Learn More]
- scott_karana 13y ago
  If memory serves, it just means it's not an Extended Validation certificate, which is supposed to physically verify the identify of the issued business/person, rather than just be a generic (but fully secure) cert.
jmadsen 13y ago
They are awake in Texas. We've been noticed :-) https://d4l3.com/blogs/darthclue/entries/treasure-good-days https://d4l3.com/blogs/darthclue/entries/treasure-good-days "At around 5AM, I awoke to the sound of Michelle crying while staring at her phone and mumbling incoherently. She eventually calmed down enough to tell me that she was being spammed with Give Forward donation notifications. It took me a bit to figure out that somehow, my 'Bucket List' had been posted to https://news.ycombinator.com/ https://news.ycombinator.com/, aka hackernews, and was the number 1 result"

stefantalpalaru 13y ago

So the house you purchased and the van you upgraded to are not yours, disposing of your body costs more than a car, visiting family means you have to stay in a hotel, the basic survival needs of your wife and four children are not guaranteed and you want to visit Disneyland and meet celebrities before you die? Capitalism is beautiful.

VMG 13y ago
can't miss an opportunity for pointless snark, eh?
- naner 13y ago
  Not really pointless... guy is dying and worried about the financial security of his family, which I completely understand, but then outlines some financially irresponsible expenses? How about posting on facebook "I'm dying, here's a fund we started to help support my wife and children in my absence" and leave it at that. This comes across as entitled and unrealistic. That being said, his situation is extremely shitty and it is probably worthwhile for anyone with the means to help him out for that reason alone.
  - danielweber 13y ago
    His priorities break down into 1) paying off debt so his currently income-less wife has some breathing room 2) spending time with family. He's not snorting cocaine off a dead hooker's ass here.
    - RankingMember 13y ago
      If you're going to go out in a blaze of hedonism you'd think you'd pay the extra couple of bucks for the hooker to be alive. :P
  - grifpete 13y ago
    Dear oh dear. You really are a sad case, aren't you?

piyushpr134 13y ago

Tragic as this story is, I would like to raise a point that could make life easier in event of untimely death i.e. term insurance. Term insurance is something that one should always get after getting married (or even before if your family is dependent on you). Multiple term insurances can be bought so you can keep buying more as your liabilities increase.

laichzeit0 13y ago
In some countries if you have multiple life-insurance policies, only one of them may actually pay out. Be warned.

rjwje 13y ago

berkcankat

xwintermutex 13y ago

Two years ago, when I was 28, a 20cm large tumor was found between my lungs, after increasing problems with breathing. I was lucky enough to have "the right cancer", and to live in a western nation. As far as scans can tell, it is gone. I wish this guy the very very best.

eXpl0it3r 13y ago

Yet another example why I try not to make any debts, especially when it comes to such large numbers, because you never know what tomorrow holds. Either you have the money or you don't. It really saddens me that it's normal nowadays to live on debts. I rather live my life less luxurious but debts free. After all, I wish them all the best!

chii 13y ago
but if you're smart about what kind of debt you take on, and take measures to not burden your loved ones with your debt, it can be a wise thing to have some debt. Not debt for a vacation or luxury, but debt for investment or growth of money. If the only reason to not have debt is because you fear the risk of dying and burdening your family/loved ones, then you are not making the most of the opportunities available.
adventured 13y ago
Obviously to be fair, generally people don't expect to get a potentially terminal cancer at 35 either. At worst one might think they have 20 or 30 years to deal with a mortgage taken on at 35. I can't find a fault with taking on a mortgage at 35 when you have a family. Particularly if you can afford the payments. I'd argue given the historically low cost of mortgage debt today, the cost of renting + trying to save to one day buy a house for your family, is a worse choice.

huhtenberg 13y ago

While this is up at the top - http://www.skincancer.org/skin-cancer-information/melanoma http://www.skincancer.org/skin-cancer-information/melanoma

epsylon 13y ago
Unfortunately, your comment isn't at the top. There are very simple guidelines that can help prevent melanoma, especially for people at risk: - Avoid exposing your skin to the sun, especially when it's high. Use high SPF (30+) sun screen (water resistant if you'll be swimming); wear longsleeves, hats and sunglasses. (Good sunglasses are important, as you can have ocular melanoma) - Obviously, don't use tanning booths. - Plan a visit with a dermatologist at least once per year. This is very important. Just like you'd get your tooth, eyes, etc... checked every year, take the habit to see a dermatologist. - If you're especially at risk, regulary check your skin for signs of changes. Nowadays it's easy to take pictures with a digital camera (or phone) so that you can see how the spots and moles evolve. How do you know if you're in the population at risk? If you have moles, OR are fair-skinned / haired, OR have freckles (all of these are usuall signs of an overall general sensitivity to sun exposure), you are at risk. Obviously, if there are family antecedants of skin cancer, you are at risk. Also, if your work or hobbies expose your skin regularly and for prolonged periods of time to the Sun, you are at risk. Personal story: I have a friend who has had a mole removed in the knee, and which proved to be ultimately (after testing) malignant. Fortunately this was caught early. And I've had personnally a mole removed in the back, though it was found to be benign. Skin cancer risk can be greatly reduced by these simple precautions, so please people, try to follow these.
adventured 13y ago
Thanks for posting that. I'm a high risk candidate for skin cancer, it's a constant concern. Knowledge is definitely key.

ryandetzel 13y ago

As a father in my thirties this hits home but I can't help but wonder WHY DON'T YOU HAVE LIFE INSURANCE? This is what it's for! For the cost of a few dinners out a year you could have 500k of coverage and right now you'd be spending time with your loved ones instead of worrying about money. Please, if you have dependents (people that need your income) buy life insurance. It's cheap (if you're young and healthy) and death can happen to anyone of us at anytime for any reason. / end rant. I feel for you though, this is super sad and I can't imagine not seeing my kids grow up. I wish you the best.

darthclue 13y ago

Jonathan here. Being woke up by my wife crying because the donations just aren't stopping is both heart-breaking and comforting. For those of you who haven't seen the 'Bucket List' post, here's what it says at the very top: As I try to deal with the reality that is my impending death I can't help but wonder how many things I might have been able to accomplish given just a little more time. When I was diagnosed, I had only one thing that I wanted; to live long enough to see my children grow up. The reality is that the odds of me living long enough to see my children grow are quite slim. The only available treatment will eventually stop working and then it's just a matter of time. This is the list of things that I want to accomplish while I still have time. Many of them aren't for me. They are for my family. They are meant to provide security for my wife and kids so that they can celebrate my life instead of mourning my death when that time comes. My priorities are taking care of my family just as they always have been. Sometimes, we just can't plan far enough ahead to deal with something like this. If you saw the original page you would also note that Trips and meeting celebrities is not high on my list of priorities. Those are things that would provide me with a small boost on an emotional level but I don't consider them something that must happen before I die. Life Insurance: I changed jobs and don't have any and now that I'm terminal, the cost for obtaining it is prohibitive. I agree that this is poor planning on my part, however, I'm 35 and no one expects to find out that they are going to die at 35. We all think we have plenty of time and the reality is that we don't. Health Insurance: Thank god that I have this or we would've been sunk from the beginning. Despite having insurance, there continue to be ongoing costs and once I go on long-term disability I'll be paying cobra rates to keep the same coverage. I have no idea how expensive this will be but I don't expect it to be cheap. This really isn't about me or the money, this is about my family and trying to ease their pain. I know that I'm living on borrowed time right now and I could be dead at any moment. All I want to do is spend as much time as I can with my kids so that they know I loved them. You try telling a 6 year old that her daddy has cancer and will be dead before she turns 8. Hardest thing I've ever had to do and I would never wish it any one. For those of you that have helped us, thank you is not enough.

adventured 13y ago
Is there anything people can do to help further beyond donations? Anything your family needs?

triberian 13y ago

Sorry to hear, look into THC oil.

napolux 13y ago

Is there any PayPal account available?

syntheticnature 13y ago
Looks like it's being done here, there is some discussion of it upthread: https://www.giveforward.com/fundraiser/w704/beating-cancer-one-dollar-at-a-time-with-jonathan-dale https://www.giveforward.com/fundraiser/w704/beating-cancer-o...

ktzar 13y ago

Instead of donating to this guy I'd prefer to advocate for a free health system and a system that doesn't fuck up a family that has had enough bad luck to see its father die. Having someone in his last months of life begging for money to not leave his family screwed up seems like a waste of those precious last weeks.

morgante 13y ago
> Instead of donating to this guy I'd prefer to advocate for a free health system and a system that doesn't fuck up a family that has had enough bad luck to see its father die. It doesn't appear that health care costs are a major issue in this scenario. Even with universal healthcare, a dead breadwinner is going to significantly impact a family's financial situation.
aestra 13y ago
This has nothing, or very little, to do with healthcare costs. This guy has a lot of debt that he took out before the cancer.

MatthewWilkes 13y ago

20k for a funeral? Really? Seemed legit until that.

jiggbenice 13y ago
Good grief...the comments on Hacker News never cease to amaze... ...just to give a representative example, last September my Dad died. 1) We had his remains cremated. 2) We got said remains without anything fancier than the cardboard box they came in. 3) We scattered his ashes ourselves as a family without any visitation, funeral ceremony, or anything. No gravestone, no casket, no wake, no ceremony, no officiant. Total cost: $6,000. $20,000 is absolutely realistic if he wants to be buried with an average casket, average headstone and average ceremony.
- genwin 13y ago
  It was $6K just for cremation? Or you had other costs?
  - jiggbenice 13y ago
    Well, from our perspective that's all that was done -- his body was cremated and given to us in ash-form. But I'm sure from the funeral home's perspective they did whatever preparations they had to do, processing, helped us put his obituary together and submitted it to publications, administration costs, etc.
- syntheticnature 13y ago
  Thank you for this. I am giving in to my urge to link it to some of the comments decrying the funereal cost given. I was told to set aside $20k fifteen years ago -- I'd expect now it would be much more.
Theodores 13y ago
It is a racket. One of the Mitford sisters pointed it out a while back: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/525561.The_American_Way_of_Death http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/525561.The_American_Way_o...

linker3000 13y ago

This hits a nerve - a neighbour (in the UK) is dying of a brain tumour and the NHS does not have the facilities for effective treatment. There's a fundraising campaign to send Gavin to the USA for specialist treatment which may save his life, and he's just been told he may not be around this time next year without it. http://www.helpgavin.co.uk/ http://www.helpgavin.co.uk/ Good luck to everybody facing similar timelines. [Edit: I can't spell]

jreed91 13y ago

Hi johnathan. My father just passed away from stage IV melanoma. He was 52. Luckily he left us financially sound. But if there is anything I can do to help you out please don't hesitate to ask. I've done my research on any treatment you could possibly have to beat this cancer. Melanoma is becoming more beatable every day and people are living for years even when they are stage IV. If you have questions please email at jreed91@gmail.com

n_coats 13y ago

I live in Orlando, 30 minutes from all the parks. Please reach out to me if and when you and your family make this trip. I will help in any way I can. I know, from my personal network, that I can help in getting free tickets and an employee rate at one of the park hotels. I'd be more than happy to provide transportation for you and your family to and from the airport as well. If you make it this way, please contact me, I'd love to help!

lopatamd 13y ago

Adopt a ketogenic diet and you'll have a chance of survival man! check out the research on this diet (by starving the cancer cells, without eating sugar)

danielweber 13y ago

This comment page makes me rage. About a third blame the guy, as if buying a house at the age of 32 is crazy. About a third just use his tragedy as a soapbox to knee-jerk blame the American health care system, as if people dying of cancer in other countries don't face a loss of income. The remaining third give me some hope for humanity.

jiggbenice 13y ago
That about sums it up.

lnanek2 13y ago

Kind of bizarre seeing someone else's value system which is completely alien to my own. If I was leaving my wife and kids with mortgage and car loan debt, I wouldn't spend $10-20k on a graveyard plot, that's for sure. I don't think I would in any case, I'd just get cremated or whatever the cheapest option is.

futurist 13y ago
Right. I think this is what bothers me about this list. It's material driven. There's a saying that goes (paraphrasing) "don't wish for better circumstances, wish to be a better person." For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Mark 8:36 KJV. Jonathan, you and your family must look to the Lord Jesus Christ. He is your judge. Through Him all things are possible.
- jeffehobbs 13y ago
  Give me a break. Think about what you are saying and how and to who you are saying it.
  - futurist 13y ago
    I did. How about you do the same?
- talmir 13y ago
  Yep, lets just jump on the god-phone and call god to get him to help him out in this instance. Just like he helps starving or diseased people throughout the world every day. Or my uncle, who died of cancer recently. The list seems material because he is worried about his family. They need to eat and they need a roof over their head. We are all a bit material. I notice you are using hacker news which suggests you must have some kind of an income and access to technology. He is dying. He is worried. Would you not feel the same? How about, instead of quoting bible bullshit to help you not so silently judge a man with cancer, you shut the heck up and donate a tiny bit to the man so he can live the rest of his days with that much less worry? Jonathan : Find solace where you can. My heart goes out to you.

eric_the_read 13y ago

My father died at 38, from a cancer, and I just had some severely atypical skin removed. This story hits very close to home for me. My deepest sympathies go to everyone involved.

johnnymonster 13y ago

This really sucks! Does he not have any life insurance? I remember when I was working full time, I had a life insurance policy worth 5x my salary, which should cover the costs for the things he wants to pay off. After becoming a contractor, this was one of the first things I secured. I didn't want my family to be left with nothing when I died.

chaostheory 13y ago

> Pay off our mortgage : $186,000 This is a little strange to me. Unless he was a freelancer, every tech job that I'm aware of has decent life insurance options that would easily cover this. If you add a few more dollars it covers college as well. I definitely can't stress the importance of getting life insurance from a reputable company.

gallamine 13y ago
My company only offered a $50k insurance policy. You can purchase $500k for <$20/month for most people.
- chaostheory 13y ago
  yup that's my point.

vans 13y ago

Sorry if i seem to be rude, but even if you're dying, you're still a human being and i will respect you. So, i won't be full of mercy and so on, i'm just going to be genuine. Your story is sad, as the story for million of people dying from this shit. But, if i help you, maybe i'd be ok with my conscience but this won't change anything for the 999 999 people remaining. If i choose to give money to fight against cancer, it would be for research and not for a particular case (even if it's sad). That being said, i truly understand that emotion and love drive me to give you some money, but i have to stay efficient and fair.

Fomite 13y ago
You're treating these like they're exclusive goals. There's no reason you can't give to more than one cause.
- glhaynes 13y ago
  But any money you're giving can only be given once.

AccountsBlow 13y ago

so STFU and die already

avenueb 13y ago

The #1 reason I limited myself to 2 kids was so that I did not have to drive a mini-van. The #2 reason was my concern I could not adequately provide for them.

mattholtom 13y ago

The giveforward site is now really active. I hope it is load friendly because it is being hugged very hard right now..

deleted 13y ago

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ilovecookies 13y ago

Even though I feel for your situation... Seriously this has nothing to do with hacker news. This is more of a reddit post that has snuck in here somehow.

ak39 13y ago
Exactly. Maybe a social experiment to see how folks react to internet begging? Dunno. But why is it here on HN? I'm not saying that the story isn't genuine, but there's no evidence or proof that it is and yet people are donating. That's amazing. Or maybe not.

jkochis 13y ago

Whatever you do, don't eat the food at Casa Bonita! They require you to purchase a meal in order to go in, but DO NOT EAT IT. You can eat the sopaipillas though.

mmphosis 13y ago

The lifetime risk of developing cancer: Males: 43.92% Females: 38.00% http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancerbasics/lifetime-probability-of-developing-or-dying-from-cancer http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancerbasics/lifetime-probabili...

edem 13y ago

Take a lot of Omega3+D vitamins and live on instead.

brunoqc 13y ago
Bullshit.
- edem 13y ago
  Typical ad hominem reaction. :)
  - brunoqc 13y ago
    I'm not attacking you. I'm attacking your claim. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

edwardchiapet 13y ago

Donated -- stay strong, man! Love your story and your priority list!

shivmsit 13y ago

Cancer is devastating and heartbreaking. I lost my brother at age 24, felt agony of cancer patient. Don't know why we can't cure cancer?

manish_gill 13y ago
Read up "Emperor of All Maladies".
- shivmsit 13y ago
  I read it, but I'm hooping that we will find a cure. It took 100 years to find a cause of scurvy.

thinkpad20 13y ago

My dad died from cancer at 36. I was 10 and had a 7-year-old brother and 11-year-old sister. I guess I can relate in some way, being on the opposite end of it. I'm sure I don't need to tell you to spend as much time as possible with your kids, because they will treasure every memory as they grow up. My heart goes out to you and I wish you and your family the best possible.

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grifpete 13y ago

Is no help possible from the new personalized targeted T cell therapies?

terragold 13y ago

I have sympathy for this guy as a human being with cancer, especially with a family and all. But I have no sympathy for this guy as a person and for the financial choices he has made. Having 4 kids, big house and car, expensive grave, need to travel, meet celebrities screams greed, irresponsibility and entitlement. You could have not had 4 kids and had 2. You could have rented a place and bought a used car. The problem isn't wanting something better, the problem is that you decided to buy those things without earning it and with money you did not have. All these are choices you made as a person. And to take your family down with you is selfish and irresponsible. Definitely won't be donating.

hfourm 13y ago
Look I get why people are complaining about the expensive funeral and travel expenses, but don't question his character for having 4 kids. Even more so, if you don't want to donate -- don't, no reason to go all nerd mode about it.
- jessedhillon 13y ago
  Why is that an illegitimate criticism? Kids cost several tens of thousands of dollars in their first decade. A family which can't afford a $190k house and an old Buick should probably consider well whether they can afford 6 kids. Spoiler: no, they can't. Isn't it better to raise 2 kids in lower-middle class than 6 in utter poverty?
vellum 13y ago
The problem isn't wanting something better, the problem is that you decided to buy those things without earning it and with money you did not have. What? Most people don't pay cash for a house or save up the full 18-year cost before having a kid. He made these choices before he was diagnosed and they weren't unreasonable given their salaries at the time.

frade33 13y ago

I wish I had enough money to help you out. All I can offer is, a sincere prayer for you and your family. May God help you and your family and ease your the trouble.

jankerz 13y ago

My father was in the same situation when he was 38 and somehow managed to make it to 48. I truly hope you are graced with the same luck as him.

tirant 13y ago

I feel very sorry for him, one shouldn't need to think about money when he has just (hopefully not) a few months left. Said that, wouldn't it be cheaper for him and his family to move to an European country, and get therapy there? In most europeans countries you just pay a low and flat rate (around 100€ a month) and you can get Cancer treatment or whatever is needed. I really want to help him, but I hate that at the end all the money will go into the greedy american health industry.

genwin 13y ago
Wouldn't he have to become a citizen first, or at least have a job there, not just be a tourist?

baby 13y ago

> Prepare for / pay for my final arrangments : $20,000 I'm not here to bash, but with so much money problem why do people want to spend so much money on their death? If I die I just want people to get rid of my body in the cheapest way possible. Just burn me or give me to science.

pokstad 13y ago
OR a tibetan sky burial: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_burial http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_burial It's considered to be a one last sign of generosity to nature when you no longer need your body. Also, it was probably started because the land is too hard and tough to dig up in the mountains of Tibet (a.k.a. cost effective and practical).
- syntheticnature 13y ago
  Note: may not be legal where you live.
syntheticnature 13y ago
"Just burn me" isn't cheap -- heck, this example from else-thread is worse than what I found with some research: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7393011 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7393011 Also, your family and friends might want to see you before science does whatever with you, and that will cost more than any of us would like to think it will. Funerals aren't cheap, and I was told when buying life insurance to expect all funeral expenses (viewings, whatever is done with the body) to easily be $20k.
- baby 13y ago
  Wait, if my familly wants to bring me to some woods and burn me in a fire, can't they just do it?
  - ufo 13y ago
    You need a better fire than that if you want to properly cremate someone instead of making some barbecue.

northband 13y ago

Curious if you've heard of http://phoenixtears.ca/ http://phoenixtears.ca/ I don't know if it works for everyone but I can vouch that it does for some.

josh_fyi 13y ago

Let me get this right. Major diseases are the most important reason for health insurance to exist. But in the US, if you get a major disease, you lose your job, then within 18 months your coverage, and then the insurance is gone. Is this correct?

345723 13y ago
Not anymore. Now you can get an individual policy that can't be terminated and the price is fixed based on age.
genwin 13y ago
Not so much an issue now with ObamaCare. If you can afford it you can be covered regardless of job circumstances.

sq1020 13y ago

Everyone's death is impending. Life is by it's very nature limited. It baffles me as to how some very intelligent people seem to believe that we can "beat" death, that death can be cured! What a curious notion advocated by none other than the director of engineering at Google! Someone once asked a sage, "Why do we fear death and cling to life so much?" The sage said, "We fear death because we have prepared nothing for it while we have constructed for ourselves a comfortable, familiar life. Why would you look forward to going to something for which you haven't prepared anything and why would you look forward to leaving something for which you invested all of your time and effort?"

BrandonMarc 13y ago

This set of comics seems apt. http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Category:Cancer http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Category:Cancer

mentaat 13y ago

20k for burial? is that below or above average?

danielweber 13y ago

Changing the headline on this article REALLY REALLY SUCKS.

snarfy 13y ago

Skip the resting place costs. Get a dirt cheap cremation. Do the funeral at home. It really doesn't matter. My mother passed not too long ago and I inherited half a dozen dead relative's ashes to go throw away. Your family will be much better off with the $20k than with memories of a church and possibly a tombstone to go visit maybe once or twice in their lives.

siculars 13y ago

How about a Star Trek catan tabletop webisode with OP, wilw, aw and fd. Just film as a regular episode and don't mention the C word. I'm sure someone here could reach out to @wilw...

peter303 13y ago

Star Wars VII in late 2015

kimonos 13y ago

This post makes me sad.. I hope and pray that you recover and enjoy life longer..

koala_advert 13y ago

These title changes are getting ridiculous. The original title was actually descriptive. I have no idea what this article is about without going to the comments or clicking on it. The whole point of a link title is to describe the link.

mynameishere 13y ago

Depressing that someone facing death would worry about Disney World and Casa Bonita. I spent a vacation at Disney World when I was 9 years old and recognized it as a plastic mold-injected bore--not in those words at the time, but good god I knew it was a tiresome waste of life, even at that age. Casa Bonita is a South Park episode. Enough said about that. But hey, you're the one who didn't buy life insurance like a responsible parent, so a non-sad sob story is your only chance of paying off your SUV. Great. Why do I care about your SUV? Also, why do I care whether you get a pricey funeral rather than a county funeral? Also, why are you more important than all of us who are born to die? Also, why was this posted?

jquery 13y ago
> Also, why was this posted? Very meta of you. Who are you to judge what someone likes? If you don't want to donate, fine, but do you also have to spit on the beggar as you walk past? Your post is vile.
- Aloha 13y ago
  HN is a community first, I wish people would remember this - I'd rather see posts about us taking care of our own, rather than: Check out my new app its X for Y New Agile Ruby Framework.. Or any other number of buzzword compliant posts.
Aloha 13y ago
Dude is dying - who exactly are you to criticize the way he wants to spend his days with his family? Beyond that, my mom took me to Disneyland when I was about 9 - while I could tell it was a constructed environment, it's a very very pretty one, and I make life experiences I still think about now, some 22 years later. I'm 31, and while I don't have kids, I dont have life insurance either, beyond a small 10k policy - no one expects to die younger than 40, and really, if you'd read, you'd see he recently changed jobs, hence the lack of insurance - beyond that, if you hadn't noticed its been a hard couple of years recently when it comes to the job market and economy, many parts of the country have only started to recover in the last 18 months.
13y ago

jordangurnzz 13y ago

Jonathan good luck man I have stage 4 Melanoma with tumors throughout as well, been on b RAF for a few months and getting in to til ( I hope) end of month. If you ever need someone to talk life or death with please reach out. Jordan jordangurnzz@gmail.com chemoblog.WordPress.com