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Carney was asking for freedom of movement of goods, people and services, but without full monetary and legislative integration. So, easier to sell stuff, easie
by FabCH 19d ago
Carney was asking for freedom of movement of goods, people and services, but without full monetary and legislative integration.
So, easier to sell stuff, easier to buy stuff, free to just travel to/from Canada/EU and work there with no extra paperwork, free to buy and sell service from Canada to EU and vice versa.
No Euro, no vote in EU, no ECJ, no payments into each others budget.
Tighter integration than UK, not as tight as Norway/Switzerland/Iceland.
Common defense was already agreed anyhow.
I can tell you this enjoys broad support in the EU public. Although, no joke, a lot of peoples first reaction is: "They need to compete in Eurovision first. Otherwise they should wait for Australia to join first."
- n4r9 19d agoI loved seeing "Le Vent du Nord" at Cambridge Folk Festival 2023, they'd probably make a decent Eurovision entry.
- post-it 19d agoCanada will be competing in Eurovision 2027 in May. :)
- SyneRyder 19d agoAlso, being a European Broadcasting Union (EBU) "Associate Member" is the name for the mechanism that allowed Australia, Canada and other countries to be admitted into Eurovision. If you've been around the ESC scene, you know there's a lot of embassy involvement (parties in embassies are a thing), the scene is catnip for those interested in politics, the politically active, and to some extent politicians. Eurovision is also one mechanism for discussions of economic development. Hosting the contest is usually an excuse for upgrades to public infrastructure. And there's Eurovision Asia starting in November. South Korea is an Associate Member of the EBU, for example. https://www.ebu.ch/news/2026/03/bangkok-to-host-first-ever-eurovision-song-contest-asia-in-2026 https://www.ebu.ch/news/2026/03/bangkok-to-host-first-ever-e...
- fidotron 19d ago> If you've been around the ESC scene This is a euphemism on par with attending parties in parts of the SFO AI community.
- embedding-shape 19d agoHaving been around both, the ESC isn't nearly as drug-fueled as the other, for better or worse.
- pantalaimon 19d agoOnly if you don't count alcohol
- SyneRyder 19d agoAhh, that one time the Belarussian delegation tried importing so much alcohol into [host country] to give away for free to everyone at the artist party, that it was all seized at the [host country] border and caused a minor diplomatic incident. The free chocolate branded with the artist's face made it in though. Fun times. And that wasn't the year that Belarus sent "I Love Belarus" as their Eurovision song.
- SyneRyder 19d agolol, this took longer to land with me than it should have, being the token "not in the target demographic" guy. And now I know more than I wanted to know about the AI scene ;)
- rsynnott 19d ago> Eurovision Asia _Terrible_ naming.
- SyneRyder 19d agoYou'd think so, and I intuitively agree. But the concept has floated around for over a decade under several different project names - Asiavision, Our Sound, ABU Song Contest. Somehow "Eurovision Asia" is the one that got countries to sign on and participate. There's a stronger political statement in Asian countries participating in "Eurovision" than in "Our Sound". It surprises me, but 2026 has brought a lot of global cultural & political shifts. The American version was "The American Song Contest", hosted by Snoop Dogg & Kelly Clarkson, with US states competing against each other. Most Americans don't even know it ever happened. Russia has its own rival "Intervision Song Contest", which the US participates in. Something something global cultural shifts.
- guiriduro 19d ago[flagged]
- mitxela 19d ago[flagged]
- isgb 19d ago[flagged]
- wewewedxfgdf 19d agoFreedom of movement with the EU and no border with the USA hm....
- paganel 19d ago> and legislative integration Does Canada's agricultural output follow EU's (quite strict) norms? Not sure if this falls under "legislative integration" but I'd say that it would be quite important to have settled. The same goes when it comes to Canada's work-related laws.
- throw0101c 19d ago> Does Canada's agricultural output follow EU's (quite strict) norms? Which output specifically? To take one example, the Dijon mustard coming out of France is mostly from Canadian mustard seeds: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dijon_mustard#2022_shortage_in_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dijon_mustard#2022_shortage_in...
- b112 19d agoI want to know the person who grows the celery seeds. I bought a box 37 years ago, a tiny little box, and I've been using it to season soups, almost weekly that whole time. There can't be more than one guy that grows those seeds, for the entire planet! So my questions are, first who is this guy, and second is the in the EU? Also, has anybody else noticed this? And if you think buying his celery seed farm, don't. It's a very limiting market.
- noir_lord 19d agoIt's not an insurmountable problem if they don't have compatibility on standards It'll just take time to reach an agreement both sides can accept and it's in some ways simpler than something like the EU-Mercosur agreement since one "side" is a unified country rather that been two trading bloc's negotiating. It's fascinating watching the world re-align so quickly (by diplomatic/negotiation standards).
- justincormack 19d agoEU signed a free trade agreement with Canada but its never been ratified
- unsupp0rted 19d agoHe asked for phase 1. It would be foolish not to expect phase 2
- shevy-java 19d ago[flagged]
- graemep 19d agoUK does not pay. The EU is likely to develop a military at some point and has some defence cooperation. if you do not trust the US, that means you cannot rely on NATO, which means you need some alternative. > Right now it seems to me that e. g. Carney, and Leyen, use this more as promo-tour. I agree. It might be meant as a threat to influence US policy.
- ifwinterco 19d agoThat could be a european Nato though, doesn't mean you need literally one EU army
- graemep 19d agoYes, and it might be a good idea. It should probably not be part of the EU though - there are a number of non-EU countries you would want in a European NATO such as the UK, Norway and Iceland.
- vintermann 19d agoIsrael's public broadcaster is a long time member of the European Broadcasting Union, which has nothing to do with EU, and honestly not all that much to do with Europe either. EBU organizes Eurovision. Why Israel's public broadcaster wanted to be part of EBU I don't know, cultural identification with Europe I guess? You'd have to ask them. But either way that's not the scandal. The scandal is that Russia's broadcaster got kicked out for Russia doing bad things (fair enough) but Israel's was kept in despite their government doing even worse things.
- jeltz 19d agoYeah, the scandal is about different members being held to different standards. Why are Azerbaijan and Israel allowed to stay while Russia got kicked out? Especially since Azerbaijan and Israel both have manipulated the voting in addition to waging wars.
- bayindirh 19d agoBeing an Associate Country (or Associate State) doesn't guarantee visa-free travel (ask how we know), yet I'm sure that Canadians will get it served on a silver platter.
- FabCH 19d agoYou are confusing the current „candidate members“ with the new „associate member“ that doesn’t exist yet and is basically something Canada will get first. Among other things, they mentioned „recognition of professional qualifications“ in their speeches today, which is the first step in freedom of movement, so the direction is there. Also, visa free is a third thing, which already exists for Canada/EU. Neither needs a visa to travel to the other.
- bluecalm 19d ago>>So, easier to sell stuff, easier to buy stuff, free to just travel to/from Canada/EU and work there with no extra paperwork, free to buy and sell service from Canada to EU and vice versa. >>No Euro, no vote in EU, no ECJ, no payments into each others budget. This version of EU integration is more popular than EU itself in significant part of EU right now.
- ChrisRR 19d agoThis was one of the stupid things that was touted as a benefit of not being in the EU during brexit. That we'd still have to comply with EU rules if we wanted to trade with them, but we wouldn't have any vote in those rules
- Fnoord 19d agoWell, the Brexit campaign was manipulated by a state actor (or rather: 'a criminal actor disguised as a state'). None of the alt-right nationalism is in the long-term benefits of the country. This is globalism, the end game. You either team up, thereby reducing your costs, or you get swallowed. Ask Ukraine, Tibet, Hong Kong how it worked out for them not belonging to a bigger team. So divide and conquer is a logical move for the opponent, and it happens to align with alt-right. There is also documented evidence of external influence in these. A medium such as Follow The Money has documented such in various of their articles.
- whisperenjoyer 19d ago> Ask Ukraine The whole political course of Ukraine in the last ~20 years is mostly about teaming up with EU and NATO, isn't it?
- rsynnott 19d ago... No. Not until this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity
- DanielHB 19d agoHow is this different from the EEA (Norway/Switzerland/Iceland)?
- moeadham 19d agoEEA you have to follow rules but get no say in said rules.
- embedding-shape 19d agoTo "join" the EEA both sides/parties of it has to agree, so yes, members do have a say, it's beneficial (and should be) to both parties of the agreements.
- QuantumNomad_ 19d agoWill Canada have to follow the rules? Will Canada have a say in the rules?
- gizajob 19d agoFollow, yes. Say, very little.
- icantevenhold 19d agoReductive to the point of untruth
- mitxela 19d agoLike me when I sign up for Hacker News or Twitter.
- embedding-shape 19d agoFor one this seems related to EU the umbrella organization, not Europe the continent, while I suppose the European Economic Area might be geographically limited to Europe the continent. Maybe something like the European Neighbourhood Policy (ENP) might be more applicative here.
- 19d ago
- klelatti 19d ago> Carney was asking for freedom of movement of goods, people and services, but without full monetary and legislative integration. > no payments into each others budget. Not going to happen! To enable free movement of goods and services the EU insists that the goods and services are produced in an identical regulatory environment. Even when the regimes are basically identical - eg the UK - then the EU doesn't permit it without budgetary contributions.
- fidotron 19d agoIt's actually going to raise questions as to why the EU are A-OK with this now when a possible interpretation of associate membership is it's what Cameron was trying to negotiate the UK into when complete inflexibility on the EU side triggered the Brexit referendum. All depends on what an associate member is of course.
- corford 19d ago>inflexibility on the EU side triggered the Brexit referendum. That's a bit of a stretch
- fidotron 19d agoIt's literally what happened. Cameron was trying to reduce the scope of EU integration with the UK (esp freedom of movement), with the threat he didn't want to use of a referendum, the EU said no (as the other commenter explained partly to disincentivize others, but also because they thought he was bluffing and people would never vote to leave), so the referendum was held.
- thih9 19d agoTo be fair, freedom of movement is one of the core principles[1] of the EU. Restricting that is a tall ask, I wouldn't describe refusing that as being inflexible. [1]: https://european-union.europa.eu/principles-countries-history/principles-and-values/aims-and-values_en https://european-union.europa.eu/principles-countries-histor... "Freedom of movement gives citizens the right to move and reside freely within the Union."
- trklausss 19d agoI'm curious how an integration into Schengen Area could actually work... Or does it just mean no passport controls? Also, to be able to sell stuff, you gotta comply with the CE rules one way or another, there is no free card here. About competition in Eurovision: absolutely, would love for them to participate, even if just as guest state :D LMAO just googled it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_in_the_Eurovision_Song_Contest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_in_the_Eurovision_Song_...
- padjo 19d agoNot all of the EU is in schengen, but we do have freedom of movement. Ireland for example is not in Schengen and never will be because of our travel arrangements with the UK.
- andyferris 19d agoI think free movement of people doesn’t imply Schengen Zone style borders - I thought this was mostly an economic lever that people can move and work in another country by default, not a human right where a country cannot exclude chosen people (known criminals, etc) and track all crossings. I think of it as another country giving me a visa is opt-out for that country, not opt-in. The CE rules are relatively sane and followed commonly right? At least I see a lot of CE-stamped goods in Australia… so I always assumed that was the case.
- mschuster91 19d agoAll that Schengen does is dismantle border checkpoints. As a German, I can freely move to any EU country for any purpose - transit, tourism and work - no matter if, say, I were a convict or whatever. There are expulsions and entry bans even under Schengen, but these are incredibly rare things to happen as the freedom of movement is considered to be a cornerstone of EU values.
- Gravityloss 19d agoCE is a tool against protectionism. If a thing is CE stamped, you must allow it to be sold (if you're a member).
- inhumantsar 19d agomore than a half dozen Canadians have already competed in Eurovision, including one winner (Céline Dion). has Australia ever won?
- ikr678 19d agoAustralia has managed a 2nd and a 4th from 11 entrants. Our voting participation is quite low though, as the voting windows are usually at awkward AEST times and the main Australian broadcast of the contest is delayed until our primetime.
- dataengineer56 19d agoYou can't vote for your own country so Australian bedtime is irrelevant.
- leidenfrost 19d agoAFAIK Charles III is the monarch both for UK and Canada. Doesn't this mean that Canada is, in a certain degree, dependent of UK?
- afavour 19d agoNo, he’s just the monarch of two different countries simultaneously.
- singpolyma3 19d agoNo. We have our own monarch who happens to be the same human is all
- foobarian 19d agoSo it's like two kubernetes pods happen to run on the same node.
- Intermernet 19d agoMore like a bunch of CNAMES pointing to a single record, but in this case the CNAMEs all start with "charlesv3".
- graemep 19d agoNo. He is separately the monarch of the UK and Canada. You could just as well argue that the UK is dependent on Canada for that reason.
- thaumasiotes 19d agoYou could, but it might be difficult to hear yourself over the explosive laughter of everybody around you. Which country would you say has a closer relationship with the King of England?
- triceratops 19d ago
- mytailorisrich 19d agoIt has to be like Norway/Switzerland/Iceland or more to get any free movements of goods and services. Level of access goes hand in hand with integration in term of regulation, etc. "Associate member" actually sounds like TIGHTER integration than Norway/Switzerland/Iceland, which are not members at all. Switzerland is not even in the EEA. It is a very bad term, actually as Canada cannot be an EU member (it isn't in Europe) and if they don't want or can't join the EEA then that leaves a Switzerland-like deal, which is purely bilateral.
- b3lvedere 19d ago“Canada cannot be an EU member (it isn't in Europe)” I think the construct of geographical location should not be that big of an issue in these times. Plenty of EU countries have overseas properties.
- mytailorisrich 19d agoIt's the law and it should be very strictly enforced because otherwise it'd open the door for the Middle East and North Africa... But I don't think Canada would want to join the EU, it's anti-Trump bluster.
- dghlsakjg 19d agoCanada does not want to join the E.U. as a full member and that is not what is being offered. Canada very much is not “blustering” when it comes to Trump. A big majority of Canadians see sovereignty and less reliance on the US as a massive issue. Canada has embraced China in a way that was unthinkable 5 years ago in a deal intended to hedge against the US. The Canadian Conservative Party lost an election it was thought to have a guaranteed win from and has continued losing seats since then in large part due to their half hearted response to Trump.
- mytailorisrich 19d agoI'll go back to my first comment above: What is an "associate member"? We don't know because it's a concept that does not exist but the very name suggests something stronger and tighter than anything that exists with non-members that have very close ties (Norway, Switzerland, Iceland). Hence I think it is safe to say that this is a lot of bluster, or ar least hyperbole, considering what Canada and the EU might really want and the long and complicated treaty process to define and create an "associate member" status.
- catchnear4321 19d agoEurovision being the primary point of contention between the US and the EU.
- femto 19d ago> ...wait for Australia to join first. A possibility. https://www.reuters.com/business/australia-on-same-page-canada-it-seeks-deeper-eu-alliance-minister-says-2026-09-15/ https://www.reuters.com/business/australia-on-same-page-cana...
- TFNA 19d agoWhen several EU countries are already struggling with large Indian Subcontinent communities that don't integrate (and dodge taxes and food-processing regs--Indians where I am have their own large underground cash-only food economy among themselves), opening up flow of people from Canada's mobile classes which has seen vast demographic change seems like it would only exacerbate the problem.
- rsynnott 19d agoWhich countries are these? There's a large population of Indian immigrants in Ireland, who seem to be integrating fine and are not notably doing much tax dodging (they would largely work in high-skill PAYE jobs, where tax dodging is virtually impossible).
- donbox 19d agoI am assuming you are somewhere in Europe and given your apparent dislike for Indians, let's look at an alternative narrative. As a Canadian of East Indian origin, I can tell you that if these individuals are Canadian citizens, they are very unlikely to leave Canada for Europe. If they are not Canadian citizens, the point is moot anyway. In fact, I would expect more European citizens of South Asian origin to move to Canada, where English is spoken, integration is generally easier and salaries are far higher. So, breathe easy.
- rmgiroux 19d agoHey, Celine Dion won Eurovision already. We just need to get Switzerland to retroactively let her win stand for Canada :) If it gets a free trade and freedom of movement system in place, I don't think anyone is going to object in Canada much. Unless they try to open up fisheries, which would get them a bunch of Maritime (and Quebec?) objections...
- philipallstar 19d agoThe main negative of the EU is people can migrate through it to get to your country, like the UK's small boats crisis. Canada, being so far from the EU, doesn't have that unique disadvantage. Which is good news for Canada if this does end up working.
- newsclues 19d agoEasier to fly to Europe from our privatized airports! Sounds great! The funny thing is that we got this, instead of tangible and needed deregulation within Canada. Another announcement, instead of actual shovels in the ground and making life better for Canadians.
- deleted 19d ago[deleted]
- pjc50 19d agoWhat actually _is_ the deal? Nobody in this thread seems to have any idea what the specifics are, which matters a lot. It sounds like we're still at the "very early talks" stage? Less integration than even Norway (EEA)?
- FabCH 19d agoThere isn’t any. It was just a political statement from both sides that they are willing to give it a go, and broad lines were drawn. There’s a meeting scheduled in Ottawa next month for the actual deal writing.
- goobatrooba 19d agoThis requires likely an alignment of trade and product standards, so could still be demanding legally to get over the line. But the foundations are similar. Maybe Canada could just join EFTA, that would be easier.
- goalieca 19d agoSo what about the CETA (trade agreement) between canada and europe that isn't ratified yet. This feels like a hollow announcement for politicians.
- stingraycharles 19d ago> Tighter integration than UK Sounds like it could be a solution for the UK as well, which begs the question: why wasn’t a similar proposal worked out with the uk?
- jonathanstrange 19d agoThe UK left and wasn't even able to make proper deals for exiting the EU, their own Brexit caught them by surprise and it was total chaos for a long time. They could now try to get closer integration with the EU but there doesn't seem to be much will for it in the UK.
- soco 19d agoBecause the UK wanted out, not in. You can work out solutions only when you are looking to work out solutions.
- carlob 19d ago> Although, no joke, a lot of peoples first reaction is: "They need to compete in Eurovision first. Otherwise they should wait for Australia to join first." What? First time I hear of this. Honestly, Eurovision doesn't really have anything to do with the EU. We all know the main sponsor is from a non-EU country whose participation is much more controversial than Canada anyway.
- lrasinen 19d agoThe main sponsor did not renew the sponsorship deal for next year, though.
- FabCH 19d agoBecause Eurovision is this cultural joke that unifies all of Europe in this yearly cultural moment of absolute madness. And the EU treaties refuse to define what „European“ means, so using „watches Eurovision“ as a rule of thumb is surprisingly workable as a definition of where the borders of „Europe“ end.
- carlob 19d agoso Australia is in Europe, but Spain, the Netherlands and Ireland are not?
- FabCH 18d agoI guarantee you that the winning song will play on repeat over and over again in every city in Spain, the Netherlands and Ireland irrespective of if they are competing, and people will still watch the circus from those countries. The whole "well we are not competing this year as a protest" is part of the joke. That is the whole point. If you want to understand more, this song is genuinely a good explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv6tgnx6jTQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv6tgnx6jTQ And I'm not even joking.
- superxpro12 19d agoI fully support eurovision-based enrollment tbh