10 ms·
Suspected sabotage causes major Netherlands rail disruption
- sedan_baklazhan 17d ago[flagged]
- birdsongs 17d ago> It seems like Russia is everything Europeans think about daily. Brilliant reply. Maybe if they stop attacking half of Europe, we'll stop thinking about them daily.
- sedan_baklazhan 17d ago[flagged]
- birdsongs 17d agoDo you mean here? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukrai... Or here, where Russia just annexed parts of Europe? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_war Or perhaps one of the hundreds of instances in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_sabotage_operations_in_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_sabotage_operations_in... Or, what do you mean? Any non-state-propaganda supporting your claim?
- sedan_baklazhan 17d ago[flagged]
- birdsongs 17d ago> Europe is not a country I'm just using your own words, my dude: > It seems like Russia is everything Europeans think about daily. >Every each case when Ukraine has used European weapons to attack Russia; also every case when European countries seized Russian ships. It's not an attack when you're defending against an invasion. Go take your weak propaganda-farm talking points elsewhere.
- sedan_baklazhan 17d ago>your weak propaganda-farm talking points I always take such personal insults as a confession in loosing an argument.
- cbg0 17d agoHow is Europe attacking Russia? I haven't seen any of our soldiers or jets flying over Russia; We would have flattened St. Petersburg and Moscow years ago if we wanted to. In fact, before Putin's conquering ambitions we were doing a great amount of trade with Russia in a very peaceful way.
- sedan_baklazhan 17d agoParticularly, Europe is constantly trying to seize Russian ships. Re: flattening Moscow and Petersburg: all "potential" threats are really pathetic.
- birdsongs 17d agoThe russian shadow fleet, you mean, illegally operating against sanctions imposed for the invasion of a sovereign nation and the use of war crimes? Yeah, they're going to get seized. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_shadow_fleet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_shadow_fleet Still posting without any sources?
- sedan_baklazhan 17d ago>illegally operating against sanctions The only legal sanctions on Earth are those imposed by UN Security Council. All the rest is just an agressive action. The Western sanctions themselves are not legal in any way.
- malomalsky 17d ago[flagged]
- tomhow 17d agoWe've banned this account.
- scrollaway 17d agoLittle by little, people are realising that Europe is at war. Politicians are trying so hard not to say it because of the implications, but there’s only so long you can keep your head buried in the sand. We’re under constant attacks from Russia… drones, sabotage, cyberattacks, propaganda campaigns derailing our elections… I’m sick of it.
- embedding-shape 17d agoYeah, not sure why not at least being upfront about the possibility is so hard. In Spain we've had train derailments, flocks of people being directed on social media to force themselves across borders, subterfuge deluxe everywhere and what not, yet the government is mostly silent and claim it's all unrelated, but it's hard to not also see the parallels across the continent and reach your own conclusions. But then also, don't wanna fall into some conspiracy theory trap either...
- crote 17d agoRussia isn't the only group interested in doing terrorism in The Netherlands. Recently the Farmers Defense Force and Extinction Rebellion have caused far greater disruption. Could it be Russia? Obviously. But in my opinion the odds are less than a coin flip.
- embedding-shape 17d ago> Recently the Farmers Defense Force and Extinction Rebellion Why derail trains though, especially in regards to the latter? Given it's one of the most environmental ways for transportation. Besides, groups like that tend to want to take responsibility, the whole point is to get attention to their groups.
- maxboone 17d agoYou're assuming rational goals instead of thinking in radical acts of terrorism. Throwing paint at a painting does not help the environment, but it does create radical flank effects. Blocking the highways does not help agriculture, but it does bring their problems in other people's home / discourse.
- apt-get 17d agoJust days after a similar (criminal) incident causing a train to derail in France: https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2026/09/12/french-police-suspect-train-derailment-was-sabotage_6757446_7.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2026/09/12/french-p... "close to Renault's factory in the town of Cléon", which is now preparing to start manufacturing drones for the French military, in collaboration with Ukrainian military-industrial groups.
- walrus01 17d agoMost consumers know Renault as an ordinary car manufacturer but also worth mentioning it's a major manufacturer of armored vehicles for the French armed forces.
- calgoo 16d agoJust Like Saab in Sweden, except Saab dont sell any cars anymore unfortunately.
- puttycat 17d agoYes. And in combination it completely rules out the suggestion that the Netherlands attack is some kind of local activist protest. (The France attack resulted in several grave injuries and could have just as easily resulted in dozens of deaths.)
- pasquinelli 17d agothat's a huge leap
- nmeofthestate 17d agoWe should see some claim of responsibility if it was indeed anyone other than the usual suspects.
- IAmBroom 17d ago
- sorenjan 17d agoA Russian warship fired flares at a Danish military helicopter in international waters in the Baltic sea too. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwn8mjl31p5yo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwn8mjl31p5yo
- dakolli 17d ago[flagged]
- markus_zhang 17d agoWho did it is irrelevant. The more important thing is who the propaganda is blaming. Then we know what the elites (behind this piece of propaganda) want.
- bilekas 17d agoThey have a habit of being involved. It's not exactly plucked out of thin air!
- cyclopeanutopia 17d agoRussia is involved in many acts of sabotage in Europe over past 2 or 3 years, so this is a very natural first guess for us, European citizens. They also started increasing their activity recently.
- ImHereToVote 17d agoLike what? Any confirmed acts?
- huurtehoog 17d agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_sabotage_operations_in_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_sabotage_operations_in...
- frereubu 17d agoThese acts are subterfuge by their nature so you're not going to get Putin coming on TV and saying "lol it was me". "There is no proof at this stage to link the flying bomb directly to Russia, which denies any role. But as well as the means and the motive, Moscow does have form. The BBC has seen details of the investigation into a plot in 2024 in which Russian-linked proxies in Poland and Lithuania not only handled drones and explosives but also delivered them to Germany." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgdmrxxkdxo https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgdmrxxkdxo
- Kim_Bruning 17d agoSo today's the yearly presentation of the new budget, with protests expected in several places. Whether this sabotage campaign is (part of a) misguided protest action or something else is yet to be determined. https://nos.nl/liveblog/2631038-nog-steeds-nieuwe-sabotageacties-op-het-spoor-hooibalen-in-brand-langs-snelwegen https://nos.nl/liveblog/2631038-nog-steeds-nieuwe-sabotageac... (Use google translate to read)
- qwertox 17d agohttps://nos-nl.translate.goog/liveblog/2631038-hooibalen-in-brand-langs-snelwegen-nieuwe-sabotageacties-op-het-spoor?_x_tr_sl=nl&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en https://nos-nl.translate.goog/liveblog/2631038-hooibalen-in-...
- teekert 17d ago"Radical Farmer Leaders" are mentioned as stimulating these actions today.
- Vinnl 17d agoThat does mean that I would not automatically jump to conclusions about Russia or war or whatever; since much of national public policy is presented today, it's also a popular day to express disagreement, and apparently some farmers had already announced they would be doing so today. (I'd assume the BBC reporter to be aware that Prinsjesdag is today, and that they'd mention that fact in this article, but apparently not.)
- barrenko 17d agoAs a european, for the love of god, can we address any single of our concerns by either the national or the supranational government? It seems as if one ambiguates the other.
- HPsquared 17d agoIt's useful because if an issue is difficult, both levels can disavow responsibility.
- HSO 17d agoin german there is a word for this Zuständigkeitspingpong competence table tennis
- myself248 17d ago> in german there is a word for this I am not surprised. > competence table tennis Magnificent!
- ramblerman 17d agoSry to be pedantic (it is german after all) but, "responsibility table tennis" would be a better fit. Competence in english translates to the skill side of the word
- raverbashing 17d agoNo, it seems governments can only ignore the concerns then complain the 'alt-right' parties get voted
- ajsnigrutin 17d ago...or blame russia! (Some media literally blamed putin because people voted for afd in the recent state election in germany).
- 17d ago
- walrus01 17d agoAnd on the same day that a (very likely Russian) UAV had to be shot down in Lithuanian air space. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjx2zgk7edlzo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjx2zgk7edlzo
- 1234letshaveatw 16d agoIt also rained where I live
- HelloUsername 17d agoMight be related to today's yearly 'Prinsjesdag' in the Netherlands: The day on which the reigning monarch of the Netherlands addresses a joint session of the States-General of the Netherlands (consisting of the Senate and the House of Representatives) to give the Speech from the Throne (Dutch: Troonrede), similar to the annual State of the Union in the United States or the British State Opening of Parliament. This speech sets out the main features of government policy for the coming parliamentary session. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prinsjesdag https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prinsjesdag
- alienbaby 17d agomaybe, but it's a step or two up from blocking roads?
- crote 17d agoStopping traffic on railways isn't much different from stopping traffic on highways, is it?
- ragebol 17d agoDepends on how it's done I think: breaking stuff vs sitting on it. And sitting on a highway is also quite visibly claiming the action, that is not clear in this case. If this is XR, would be very dumb and against their message.
- nmeofthestate 17d ago>Might be related to today's yearly 'Prinsjesdag' in the Netherlands: Russia may have heard about that annual event as well, of course.
- logicchains 17d ago>Speech from the Throne (Dutch: Troonrede) Is "troonrede" essentially just the Dutch pronunciation of "Throne read"?
- 17d ago
- AmericanOP 17d agoPutin’s exit narrative requires escalation. Defeat vs Ukraine is a pathetic wound- “we would have won if it weren’t for.. europe” is preferable to narcissistic permanent victimhood. Solovyov propaganda is pure nuclear revenge fantasy: https://youtu.be/dA4RP3uID6Q?is=ApmFQtgZvY7mWajP https://youtu.be/dA4RP3uID6Q?is=ApmFQtgZvY7mWajP
- assimpleaspossi 17d agoI don't understand. What does this have to do with HN, the typical topics, and the typical users who come here?
- rebolek 17d agoBy the upvotes - a lot.
- hagbard_c 17d agoYes, and that's one of the reasons politics - which this is - used to be shunned on this site. It is like catnip for those who have an opinion - whether agreeing or disagreeing - on the subject and quickly turns into a mud fight. In combination with the down-voting system on HN this gives rise to a strong and unhelpful herd mentality where those with itchy down-vote fingers quickly make opinions outside of their desired narrative fade to grey. Unfortunately this 'no politics' rule has never been free from bias even before the rise of The Orange Man and seems to have been dropped off the radar ever since. This only serves to increase the level of polarisation, the bitter fruits of which are ripe for the picking right here in this thread.
- n4r9 17d agoInternational politics is intellectually stimulating.
- assimpleaspossi 17d agoOff-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- n4r9 17d agoFair, but I think potential international sabotage of transport systems in a wartime context is interesting. Even if speculative at this point.
- NicoJuicy 17d agoAnd Putin has trump in his pocket. Some oligarch just had to pay a couple of big bucks for his sons wedding... https://www.propublica.org/article/donald-trump-jr-wedding-bankrolled-russian-oligarch-umar-kremlev-putin https://www.propublica.org/article/donald-trump-jr-wedding-b...
- amelius 17d agoMakes you think. If Russia can get a bunch of teenagers to put pipes on the railway tracks or fly some drones near an airport, then so can AI.
- raverbashing 17d agoIt's not a "bunch of teenagers", a regular pipe won't cause a train to derail, one would need heavy machinery to move that rail in France
- XorNot 17d agoThis is very much why I find most people's AI doom scenarios trite. Humans are useful, easily manipulated operatives in the medium AIs are conversant in and we already have evidence of agents doing exactly this in arguing for PR requests (likely with prompting by an operator but still).
- venzaspa 17d agoIt's surprisingly cheap to recruit a few mugs to cause a bit of havoc: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_arson_attacks_against_Keir_Starmer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_arson_attacks_against_Kei...
- bamboozled 17d agoThe little green men
- deleted 17d ago[deleted]
- antonmks 17d agoI am not saying that Russia was behind this, but 99% likely.
- nelox 17d agoI would be surprised if it wasn’t by Russia. Russian infrastructure is being systematically destroyed by Ukraine with funding, training, intelligence and materiel from Europe. This is an attempt to discourage European support by disrupting Europeans.
- kaon_2 17d agoOckham's razor may be? Big protests are common on Prinsjesdag, particularly when sensitive decisions or policies are made. A local protest organisation is therefore significantly more likely than an organized foreign sabotage. If I were Putin and had foreign agents in the Netherlands I certainly wouldn't expose them this physically.
- Enginerrrd 17d agoTo be fair, Russia also sends people out to inflame active protests and try to push them into greater extremism.
- pprotas 17d agoLikely organized by farmer protest groups (FDF for example) to protest against emission restriction regulation. They are known for their dangerous stunts, including driving their tractors on the highway and spraying manure on government buildings. These actions are tolerated by the Dutch police, which willingly and purposefully refuses to punish these acts.
- Zagitta 17d agoFarmers and right wing people in all of Europe are actively being disinformed by Russian intelligence service and either wilfully ignores it or too incompetent to realize it.
- pprotas 17d agoWe are all being disinformed, whether it's by a foreign or our own government. This is not a problem unique to Europe, right-wingers, farmers or Russia. The goal is to have us fight while the powerful become even more powerful. It is important to be aware of this fact, it is not just "the other side I don't agree with" that are affected, and thinking of them as willfully ignorant or incompetent is what the powerful would like you to think (infighting is the goal). You are right in the sense that there is likely an underlying meddling causing these farmers to act this way. It does not excuse their actions.
- bsoqk 17d agoPutin must be really happy - whatever happens in Europe, he's blamed for it, making him look omnipotent. Most countries would love to have that kind of power. It’s so much more likely to be the farmers, but it's easier to blame Putin and do nothing about it than it is to stop ruining the farmers and risk angering the cosmopolitan politicians whose votes in the parliament you need.
- cindyllm 17d ago[dead]
- alexejb 17d agoPutin became a meme. He's almighty and weak at the same time. He's the Zar, Stalin AND Hitler in one person. He's been cloned at least a dozen times but seems to have a grave illness and will die soon. On the one hand it's funny to watch how people are losing their minds over it but on the other it just prevents a clear dialogue and assessment of a politician.
- microtonal 17d agoZero karma and all comments are pro-Russia, anti-EU, and anti-Ukraine. HN is successful enough to be on the radar of Russian troll factories eh?
- kaon_2 17d agoSad to see so many people here in the comments jump the gun and think of Russia. Some local context: Today is "prinsjesdag" when the budget is announced. Protests are common, particularly when sensitive decisions are made. There are multiple organized protest movements in the country that have used physical force in the past and some of them had announced protests for today. Could it be Russia? Yes. But local protests seem significantly more likely. Moreover, if I were Putin I wouldn't expose my foreign agents this physically. I would use them in much more insidious ways such as actually starting or supporting these protest movements. In a similar vein: Could any shooting in the US be caused by foreign agents? Maybe. But usually there is a much simpler explanation; guns and bitterness.
- braho 17d agoProtests draw attention to your cause. This doesn't draw attention to anything, it is straightforward sabotage. Neither is it in line with how typical protestors operated before. You are jumping to the assumption that foreign agents wouldn't be exposed, but any willing idiot can be bought to conduct such activity. Recent research in Denmark showed that sabotage comes, most likely, from locals, persuaded by foreign actors. So two things could be true at once. A local 'protestor', disengaged through some issue (whether climate, farming or anything else), persuaded to join some 'resistance' by anyone. I don't expect this to be supported by local protesting groups, like FDF or XR, either. Way too risky, media-wise.
- ajsnigrutin 17d agoIt could also be kids doing it "for the lolz", like in slovenia: https://www.rtvslo.si/crna-kronika/na-zelezniski-progi-iz-celja-proti-zalcu-vlak-naletel-na-nastavljeno-vrtno-garnituro-in-kolo/764304 https://www.rtvslo.si/crna-kronika/na-zelezniski-progi-iz-ce... similar thing happened next to a minority area where they put railroad ties (the big wooden things, usually supporting the tracks) on the tracks themselves, and well, that even got politicized for the location reasons.
- ragebol 17d ago
- aerodog 17d ago[dead]
- cynicalsecurity 17d agoEuropeans don't realise how close war is to their homes. Russia won't stop unless it's stopped.
- gambiting 17d agoDefine Europeans - us Poles absolutely understand the danger. In fact I'd say we're already at war with Russia, the way they attack our democracy, our institutions and politics daily. But someone in Portugal might not see it the same way we do.
- century19 17d agoRussians are Europeans.
- gambiting 17d agoYes, obviously - but I'm not sure how that's related. Or maybe actually in fact it speaks of the fact that some terrorist acts within Russia were commited by or on the order of the Russian government.
- Zigurd 17d agoMany, maybe even most Russians would like to be part of Europe, even if they would complain about the terms that would enable them to join pan European organizations. For now they are just potential Europeans.
- gambiting 17d ago....half of Russia lies in Europe, if someone born in Moscow isn't European what are they?
- century19 17d agoRussia being part of Europe is a fact and not a preference. It seems like you want to see Europe as being united against Russia instead of this being an internal European conflict, which it is.
- NietTim 17d agoIt should be noted that today is Prinsjesdag and the new yearly budget is being presented, or however that is properly translated in english. Especially now that farmers are also lighting hay bales on fire next to highways the most likely explanation is nationals doing this
- ButlerianJihad 17d agoChecking some other calendars yields: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Nazi_Germany#National_flag_and_ensign_(1935%E2%80%931945) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Nazi_Germany#National_... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws#Text_of_the_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws#Text_of_the_law... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Days_of_Repentance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Days_of_Repentance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Day_of_Democracy#2020s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Day_of_Democracy...
- NietTim 17d agoPrinsjesdag is held on the third tuesday of september. You are trying to insinuate some weird stuff.
- ButlerianJihad 17d agoA nationwide railway disruption on September 15th is some weird stuff, my friend
- NietTim 17d agoOut of all the ignorant comments in this thread that clearly do not know what is happening in the netherlands and are just assuming wild stuff, you made the most insane one. Congratulations.
- ButlerianJihad 17d agoThank you. I appreciate that you know what is happening near you and in your homeland. As the snowclone could go, "think locally, speak globally"? My epistemology in this regard is unfortunately limited to concrete measurements, such as the Earth's orbit around the Sun. The English Wikipedia is such an unreliable source, that I could not even be certain whether Mary of Hungary was born in 1505. I am sorry that I have allowed the bigger picture, or mere coincidence and happenstance, to cloud my opinion of your yearly ceremony and the annoying disruption to your daily commute. "History may not repeat itself, but it does often rhyme." -- unknown
- anovikov 17d agoWell this is natural, terrorism in Europe is almost entirely Russia-originating (and have always been, see drop to nearly zero after 1991 when Russia lost the capability).
- Muximize 17d agoFarmers protesting new nitrogen emissions regulation. They are also setting hay bales on fire next to highways. The rail sabotage is relatively harmless, the tracks use block signalling so if you use a conductive metal bar or jumper cables to connect the rails, the system thinks a train is present and the preceding signal will stay red.
- consp 17d agoThe harm is in the cost. Not the actual danger. Or are they going to pay for the damages caused due to lost productivity?
- account42 17d agoProtests are much less effective if they can just be ignored. At the very least "lost productivity" is a very abstract harm and not something that endangers human lives directly.
- avianlyric 17d agoThat does depend on the productivity being lost. No doubt many of the people who were unable to commute that day would have been doctors and nurses. I think it would be of a stretch to actually claim that this specific incident caused loss of life, but it’s possible to see how such wide sabotage, especially conducted over a number of days, could result in compromised emergency services and result in loss of life. Protests also tend to be more effective if the protesters involved actually make some clear demands about what they want. Simply breaking shit isn’t much of a protest.
- preisschild 16d agoBut its also not reasonable to let someone having grievances block the entire country. The farming industry is 1% of GDP in NL. Why do they get to hold the entire country hostage?
- igleria 17d agoI'm starting to be a little worried about what Putin has planned for Europe.
- CrzyLngPwd 17d agoCame for the news for nerds, got a blog from the BBC propaganda machine. Anyway, I am surprised the BBC blogger didn't add north koreans and some linked it to porn on the internet.
- pestatije 17d agothe railway was hacked with a metal tube... perfectly suited news
- CrzyLngPwd 17d agolol, nice try.
- crote 17d agoA similar hijack will soon(ish) become impossible, as the current train protection system will be replaced by ERTMS. Basically, the current system works by injecting a small current signal on one rail and trying to sense it on the other rail. A train's axle shorts the rails together, so sensing it means a train is present. Or, in this instance of sabotage, a jumper wire. ERTMS L2, which is being installed over the next decade or two, primarily uses axle counters and train position reporting, so a jumper won't do a thing. You can still fool an axle counter, but that's rather easy to fix: just drive a known-good train over the section.
- Rover222 17d agopre-coffee and I kept reading that as "sabotage causes major Neanderthal rail disruption" I was like hmmmm what timeline am I in now?
- ButlerianJihad 17d agoRobert J. Sawyer's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Neanderthal_Parallax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Neanderthal_Parallax
- Rover222 17d agomight be time to read it
- aisvm 17d agoThis is getting concerning. Multiple locations and deliberate disruption suggest this may be more than random vandalism. Hopefully investigators find out who is behind it and why.
- koiueo 17d agoOh, these wannabe intellectualist. Russians been messing with your elections, blowing up factories, inducing illegal immigration, destroying infrastructure and openly threatening to turn Europe into a radioactive dust. Meanwhile people: "hopefully investigators find out". Seriously, this is ridiculous
- bearjaws 17d agoIt's baffling honestly. EU running around like a Metal Gear Solid NPC "What was that noise?" "Who's footprints are these?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjPpX1g1juo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjPpX1g1juo
- hohogo891 17d ago[flagged]
- earth-tattoo 17d agoEuropeans really hates sabotage when it happens to them. Nobody blinked an eye when Nord Stream (a civilian infrastructure) was blown up.
- dolmen 17d agoFYI Nord Stream had one end in Germany, which happens to be in Europe. So Nord Stream was driving oil to Europe, and some Europeans mattered.
- fjfaase 17d agoFYI Nord Stream did not transport oil, but gas (not to be confused with gasoline).
- hofiflo 17d agoThat’s not true. It was (and is) a huge thing in the German news and public discussion, especially now that it’s brought up again with recent arrests of suspects, the explosives targeting cargo airports, etc.
- fer 17d agoNot sure where you get your news from, but plenty blinked.
- jongjong 17d agoIf we think about public infrastructure in an adversarial way, the same way we think about software systems; we could say that it's full of critical zero-day vulnerabilities.
- persolb 17d agoI do engineering on these systems and have some expertise on this particular class of event. We’ve had tabletop red teams, and the general outcome is that rail systems being designed to ‘fail safe’ is an easy target. Failing safe at an individual actual ‘fault’ is still the best option, but it could be abused at scale. It’s near impossible to cause two trains to run into each other (unless you are physically operating one of them), but it is really easy to cause all trains in an area to stop because a cross check or a bit has flipped. In this case, they literally flipped a bit by short circuiting the track circuit. If done at scale, it is still possible to bypass and run trains safely the old fashioned way. It is less safe, but would probably be the decision if this was happening at multiple locations everyday.
- pvaldes 17d agoWhy all this farmers know so much about how to sabotage trains suddenly?
- snvzz 17d agoLLMs, likely.
- pvaldes 16d ago1) That would need many people in different places doing the same question to a LLM at the same time, and them deciding to commit acts of sabotage that can't be linked to their demands as farmers, are very risky for the authors and don't bring the slightest benefit to their cause. The only way the risk to end in jail by reckless homicide would worth the effort, is that they would had been paid for this work. And 2) we have a much simpler explanation: Infiltrated leaders organized to direct the masses as sheep. We had seen this in the Capitol assault (Do you remember the girl trying to sell that laptop stolen in the Capitol to Russian spies?), and in Ceuta (Moroccan police videotaped leading the immigrants), and in Barcelona ("professional rioters" experts on urban warfare coming from Germany for no reason), and every single time this things happen. And, again, this acts require precise training, skills and moves that normal people never even achieve, but can be found in spades at FSB (or CIA, or Mossad). This farmers seem the only people in the planet so lucky as to arrange everything right at the first attempt. Every tiny detail. Zero mistakes. They should be hired to make software. I will keep the simpler explanation.
- grey-area 17d agoRussia is at war with Europe. Europe is not yet at war with Russia but it will be in time.
- bamboozled 17d agoThe plan is to turn Europe into a Pro Russia right wing empire before that happens though. AfD etc.
- grey-area 17d agoA multi-pronged plan, starting with funding Brexit to weaken Europe.
- nullorempty 17d agoExcept... it finances and arms Ukraine. Yeah, Europe is at war with Russia. Yet again.
- wolvoleo 17d agoWe should just build up enough nuclear deterrent to prevent Russia from attacking us. We've been dependent on the US for this but this was also by the US' own design. They didn't want many countries to have nukes. So the whole 'Europe is not doing its bit' is not really justified. We don't need more tanks and soldiers because if we go at Russia like Ukraine does, so many people will die that it doesn't matter who wins. We just need to be able to destroy Russia so thoroughly that they won't think about attacking us, just like they don't attack the US. Mutually assured destruction has kept the world safe for almost a century but now with the US no longer committed to NATO we just need to build our own.
- MadrasTh0rn 17d agoCmon NATO do your thing
- deleted 17d ago[deleted]
- zergrush 17d agoWhy do people automatically jump to conclusion that it was Russia in the comments? They haven't even released any evidence or investigation yet in official sense.
- consp 17d agoHighly likely associated with yearly national budget fiesta. No reason for foreign interference, we can easily mess it up on our own.
- pvaldes 17d agoBecause we had seen the same old tricks a thousand times before. Nobody wakes up some day saying I know exactly how to stop a train without being caught. Or: I know exactly were to cut to enter in this restricted area that normal people never had heard about it just to steal a few copper cable here and there (or worse, fiber optic cable) Random actions are truly random. This acts aren't random. They need instead planning, precise knowledge that is not available to most people, and direction to coordinate them in several locations at the same time
- zergrush 17d agoDo you have evidence that Russia did this ?
- pvaldes 16d agoAt this point, a p-value is more than enough. Each time Russia is suffering troubles in the war, this events happen; and they happen in clusters. A few models are recycled again and again and adapted to each country. Sabotage to railways and wildfires "caused by climate change" are two of the most popular. Another is sending people to protest and cause trouble in the streets with any excuse, supported by campaigns of disinformation online from some IP in Russian soil. Another was Russia caught cutting marine internet cables. We even may suspect that the lone wolf driving over people or backstabbing people in the streets is another. Just last week, Ukraine killed two more Russian generals and a colonel. Losing 13 major generals, admirals and lieutenants and more than 42 colonels [1] is not a minor issue in any war. Ukraine also hit again a big refinery to the point of Trump asking Zelensky "stop doing that to refineries". "You are making my friend cry" is implicit. Ukraine is also slowly pushing back Russians in some front lines Putin can keep doing chest thumping and faking strength in public, but the facts point to that Russia is not doing as well in the war as he would wish. You may have noticed the huge increase in Russian provocations to NATO lately. Putin risk to be assassinated by his own generals increases with each general killed. He needs to redirect the angry towards an external target, and is desperate for a NATO move that would justify him (legally and in the eyes of Russians people) to start a major mobilization soon after the Russian elections that start in two days. So expect more events like those in Europe in the next days, and maybe some dumb move of Trump to destroy another good thing in US, with the clock ticking before he turns into a burnt out asset. ----------- [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_generals_killed_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_war_(2022%E2%80%93present) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_generals_kille...
- marcusverus 17d agoAll the Russia conspiracism in here reminds me of the claims that they blew up their own pipeline. The cost/benefit analysis of that situation was so obviously out of whack that no serious person should could have considered it to be a possibility. This case is more plausible than that one was, but not by much. How could the benefit from derailing a few trains possibly justify the risk of A) more sanctions, and B) triggering NATO's Article V? The benefit of these operations is what, slowing trains down by one day? The 2022 sanctions on Russia have lowered their GDP by 6% by some estimates, which is the equivalent of turning the entire Russian economy off for three weeks of the year, every year. The notion that Russia would risk war and/or crippling sanctions to mildly inconvenience a tiny share of rail customers in The Netherlands is simply absurd. Putin makes plenty of mistakes, but he remains a shrewd adversary, and he is certainly not stupid.
- sintezcs 17d ago[flagged]
- stillcompiling 17d agoWhat do you mean?
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 17d agoA drone just crashed 1km from Wunstorf airbase in Germany too.
- victordmor 17d agoSurprisingly few people mentioning that AI might be the culprit here?
- lucb1e 17d agoAlso nobody is talking about aliens as an option?? /s I really have no clue what this is supposed to refer to. LLMs with arms and legs, armed with pipes?
- throwaway85825 17d agoIt's easy enough to make a human level self driving car, that's not the problem. The expectation is not human level it's much closer to perfection. Security is the same way, the expectation requires near zero defection. Western governments have slowly accepted compounding marginal decreases in security assuming it doesn't move the needle much. Now they are reaping the consequences of their ignorance of security posture.
- valgaze 17d ago> German journalist Angelique Geray posed as a fan of Vladimir Putin on social media while investigating how covert Russian agents operate in Germany. > Geray spent several months creating a fictional online persona. Using the alias Katya, she presented herself as a pro-Russian influencer, trying to build a following organically and establish contacts on social media. > “Katya” posted videos of herself posing in a striped Russian sailor shirt, professing her admiration for Putin, and walking around the Bundestag with a Russian flag. Before long, agents contacted her and offered her unspecified assignments and sent her payment in Bitcoin. > Geray and other RTL journalists were able to observe the recruitment process firsthand. New agents were initially given simple tasks — taking a photo, picking up a package, or obtaining a SIM card. They were later drawn into more serious operations, though these “disposable agents” knew only their own roles and did not understand the overall plan. > Jović invited “Katya” to meet. During their meeting, he spoke about his pro-Russian activities and hinted at the involvement of Russian intelligence agencies. Asked directly whether intelligence agencies in Moscow were directing his social media activity, he said, “Nobody knows. Well, I don’t know — in theory. In practice, I do know.” Later, when Geray approached him under her real name as a reporter, he denied taking part in a pro-Russian campaign. https://meduza.io/en/feature/2026/09/14/an-undercover-german-reporter-posed-as-a-putin-superfan-online-suspected-russian-agents-quickly-offered-her-bitcoin-to-run-local-errands https://meduza.io/en/feature/2026/09/14/an-undercover-german...
- lrasinen 17d agoNOS thinks it's individual farmers getting a bit too frisky: https://nos.nl/artikel/2631141-boerenactivisten-mogelijk-verantwoordelijk-voor-sabotage-op-het-spoor https://nos.nl/artikel/2631141-boerenactivisten-mogelijk-ver...
- hn_submit 17d agoThey're trying to dissuade European NATO members from continuing their support for Ukraine. Things are going badly for Russia. The war has lasted longer than the Great Patriotic War against Nazi Germany and Ukraine is actually taking back territory. Over half a million Russians are dead and probably a million wounded. The economy is imploding due to the enormous expenditures (30% or more of GDP is spent on the war). Just like in WWI Russia is running out of men to continue the fight. It either has to give up or escalate. I believe Zelensky made a big mistake insulting Putin when things were going stellar at the front a couple months ago. By making it personal Putin is doubling down until he defeats Ukraine or Russia is destroyed in a war with NATO.
- komposit 17d agoI live here. It is the disgruntled farmers whodunnit. There is no measure these onions wont take to defend their stranglehold on our little land. Block the highways with tractors. Sabotage the railways. Intimidate politicians. All because we are sensibly trying to limit their ability to pollute our soils with nitrogen and ask them to leave some space for people to build houses on but nay tmust all be spent towards producing cowfeed yuck
- nullorempty 17d agoA lot of the commenters blame Russia, and ... have you looked at the map? Netherlands is one of the countries that are furthest away from Russia! And then, there are countries that take much more active stance against Russia - Germany for example. Should Russia send a message it will probably be to the countries that stir shit.
- distances 17d agoThere are over 200 acts of sabotage in Europe linked/suspected to Russia. There's plenty to go around for everyone, and somehow people are still hesitant to say we're in active hybrid war.
- nullorempty 16d agoI'd be curious to know where I could verify these numbers. Also, financing ukraine and supplying it with weapons does mean europe is at war with russia yet again!
- distances 16d agoSource is RUSI: https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/unnatural-disasters-next-front-russias-hybrid-war https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/comme... > over 200 incidents of suspected Russian hybrid warfare in Europe between 2014 and 2024 [..] Most incidents (86%) have taken place since early 2022 I hope you're aware of how you're framing this as European choice of entering the war, instead of placing the fault on Russia. Straight from the Russian playbook of always blaming others.
- nullorempty 15d agoMerkel admitted that Minsk agreements were meant to allow Ukraine time to build up the military - with the help from the west! So yes, that's how I frame it.
- 15d ago
- abradaric 16d agoWith DeutscheBahn in Germany, it would be hard to tell the difference between external sabotage and any given Tuesday