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The EPA is planning to scrap public review rules for data center pollution
- paimapi 22d agoI love this line: >Last year, Lee Zeldin, who runs the EPA, said it was now the agency’s top priority to “make the United States the artificial intelligence capital of the world.” The 56-year-old agency was established in 1970 to protect the environment and public health. lol, reminds me of those videos where a host will say one thing and then the cameraman pans to reveal the lie
- andai 22d agoThat's a very strange goal for the EPA to have. I mean, it's a worthy goal, but it sounds very much like not their department?
- JohnFen 22d agoThat's in line with the EPA's new mission of ensuring environmental degradation.
- Sharlin 22d agoEnvironment Pollution Agency
- leptons 22d agoEverything this administration does only makes sense if you live in bizzaro-world and want this world to burn.
- Gigachad 22d agoIt makes sense if you are a boomer wanting to extract everything possible for yourself with zero regard for even 10 years in the future where you will most likely be dead.
- leptons 22d agoTake "boomer" out of it and I would agree with you. Greed and power are not and never have been an age-related thing past early childhood. It's the human condition, not strictly a "boomer" thing.
- Gigachad 22d agoIt's not a boomer thing other than the old people in power happen to be boomers right now. But it is related to them being at the end of their lifespan. The greed is so incredibly short sighted because they only have a few years left to exploit society. Trump won't live long enough to see the full consequences of his actions. We are watching world leaders get increasingly old which is having catastrophic impact on society.
- wallst07 21d agoAnd when you get to boomer age your cohert will do the exact same thing, and you will be yelling at the kids to get off your lawn, and the cycle will repeat. Ask me how I know...
- leptons 21d agoGuess what... another trump will run for president after donald is gone, and they will also be just as greedy, but not "a boomer" or anywhere near that age. It has nothing to do with age, so the sooner you get that out of your head, the clearer you will see the problem. Humans in general are short-sighted regardless of age, always have been, always will be. I understand your argument though, I've seen it spouted from thousands of young people, trying to blame old people for everything. But it's those same young people that don't fucking show up to vote. Maybe try voting, and motivating your peers to vote, and then things can change for the better, but young people of voting age notoriously are "not political" or just can't be bothered. Talk about short-sighted, lol, young people are very much so, too. Practically everyone is at fault for the mess we are in, not just "boomers". I gave up driving in the 1990's because I could see the climate calamity coming that we're now in. I was in my 20's at the time. It caused a lot of social pain for me, but I accepted it because I didn't want to be part of the problem. I wasn't short-sighted, and now I'm pretty old, and all I see is short-sightedness from every age group. "I got mine" is not an old-person thing, it's everyone that cares more about themselves than others - and it takes a lot of effort to do the opposite.
- nickff 22d agoOne of the very early Nick-names for the EPA (shortly after its founding) was “Every Polluter’s Ally”, as it was viewed as more emitter-friendly than the state regulators which preceded it.
- kadoban 22d agoIt was created by Nixon, so yeah I'm sure the early days were a little weird (and it hasn't gotten any better since).
- culi 22d agoReminds me of how HIPAA was actually created as a way to standardize patient data so it could be more easily shared. The stuff about doctors not being allowed to share your medical history with employers only came later. A lot of people think of it as a privacy bill but it's actually the exact opposite A lot of industry regulation has basically been regulatory capture since the start
- downrightmike 22d agoNixon created the EPA because he used our natural unspoiled resources to back the dollar. Looks like the admin doesn't care about that anymore, they think global war and AI can back the dollar
- dgellow 22d agoThe current admin has the explicit goal to devalue the dollar (see mar-a-lago accord). I don’t think the goal is to back it
- downrightmike 22d agoI was thinking they were trying to crash every currency, with the dollar only coming out barely on top because of oil
- Dylan16807 22d agoCrash every currency relative to what? Is that like saying "okay gold is 10x as expensive and nothing else changes"?
- downrightmike 21d agoHyper inflation. everything costs more. That or a debt jubilee are the only options out of this mess
- Dylan16807 21d agoBut what's the goal? And as long as it's one big crash, at the end things stop inflating and all prices are higher and all wages are higher and everything is pretty much back to normal.
- deleted 21d ago[deleted]
- WarmWash 22d agoFirst of all, what is datacenter pollution? Second, why is the article trying so hard to make datacenters out as racist?
- MengerSponge 22d agohttps://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20260811-memphis-ai-data-center-fuels-pollution-fight-in-black-neighborhood https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20260811-memphis-ai-da...
- WarmWash 22d agoYeah, but just being a human is enough to qualify for not living in a smog cloud. Also the article is trying to connect gas turbines from 2 years ago with cancer rates..
- standeven 22d agoThe pollution is the immense amount of exhaust from the power generation equipment being installed on site at data centres. The article is from Capital B, which focuses on news affecting the Black community.
- WarmWash 22d ago[flagged]
- convolvatron 22d agono, we already abolished all rule making and review about CO2, this is removing the EPA requirement to install scrubbers for removal of NO and NO2 given sufficiently large outputs, which cause acid rain and are linked to respiratory problems. of course it all depends on the dose, which is why there there is a review process, which I guess was just too inconvenient
- WarmWash 22d ago
- GolfPopper 22d agoThis is bad news for everyone (well, except the high priests of the LLMs / nascent Cthulhoid godlings), but it certainly makes the communities who've successfully opposed data centers seem ever more justified in retrospect.
- cucumber3732842 22d ago>(well, except the high priests of the LLMs / nascent Cthulhoid godlings This is potentially good news for everyone who wants to do anything less dirty than a datacenter (logistics, cold chain, light manufacturing/assembly, etc) because they'll probably be able to get the precedent extended to them in the next decade or so. The people and communities that make money off that sort of stuff will probably do well. Most of that sort of industry is in poorer sections of states where the municipalities are constantly being hamstrung by their own state because the municipalities want to permit it but state rules make that hard. So there is potential for some good to come out of it.
- bayindirh 22d agoI mean, like this? https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/pfas-forever-chemicals-carpet-industry-georgia/ https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/pfas-forever-chem... "Great" news indeed.
- feoren 22d agoThese exemptions are not granted based on logic or precedent. "Less dirty" has nothing to do with it. They're entirely based on open bribery. This will be granted to any industry that bribes the administration enough. What's the good news again?
- cyanydeez 22d agooh! "This will benefit the 2%, while the 1% burns the earth to the ground" This is like Republicans claiming that they're doing everything for small businesses, when the reality is they're doing things for contract workers who more often are just being forced into contracts that wouldn't exist without the lax regulatory reality and are abused thereof. "This will benefit the little guy (assuming they survive their cancer diagnosis)"
- dyauspitr 22d agoGoddamnit this is the worst possible administration to have while we’re having this massive buildup of data centers. Any reasonable government would have done what Massachusetts did and stipulated that you can build a data center, but it needs to be powered by renewable energy so build out your own energy sources, which would have been a win-win for everyone but instead we get this. Also, if the Democrats were in power, I hope they wouldn’t succumb to a minority in their base and just ban data centers and completely take us out of the race.
- Analemma_ 22d ago> I hope they wouldn’t succumb to a minority in their base and just ban data centers The most recent set of polls I saw said that 71% of Democrats and 64% of all Americans support banning datacenter construction. It's not merely a majority, at this point it's a pretty significant supermajority. There are good recents not to ban DC construction but at this point it's pretty clear it's what the people want and letting construction go ahead is, in some sense, undemocratic.
- l1n 22d agohttps://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-proposes-streamline-state-and-local-permitting-process-minor-sources https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-proposes-streamline-sta...
- jeffbee 22d agoI'm pro-information and believe generally that anti-data-center activists are chasing a Glonzo on par with anti-5G electrosensitives. That said given the tide of opinion I'm overjoyed that Trump and his allies want to step into the fusilade to defend the unpopular.
- cogman10 22d agoThat data centers need a lot of power and some cases a lot of water isn't some sort of conspiracy theory. When you have data centers like the box elder county DC that is planed to consume more power than the entire state of Utah and it wants to do that by burning natural gas, that's not some sort of conspiracy theory that it would be tremendously bad for the environment and the regional gas and electric bills (particularly since a decent amount of power already is generated via natural gas there). I'm not wholesale against data centers, but there are more than a few projects that are downright irresponsible.
- LeBit 22d agoI have no idea and one can trace a parallel between the construction of resource hungry data centers and 5G crack pots.
- scottyah 22d agoI figured that one was non-serious and just used as anchoring and to take the heat whilst other large ones were ok to go under the radar.
- cogman10 22d agoIt's not the only GW datacenter planned [1]. AFAIK, a majority of these big datacenters are going to produce their power via natural gas turbines. I don't know of any that are actually planning on powering themselves via renewables or even nuclear power. The sub 100MW data centers are mostly relying on the grid, but even a number of them plan on having natural gas turbines. [1] https://cleanview.co/data-centers/us https://cleanview.co/data-centers/us
- childofhedgehog 22d agoProbably an oversimplified question but how do we actually stop this?
- deleted 22d ago[deleted]
- JohnFen 22d agoA good start is to vote in the midterms to reduce the amount of power that these antihuman criminals have. The US is currently in the midst of a serious political disaster and there will be no quick fix to any of this. But if we take every opportunity possible whenever we can to rid ourselves of these people and to stand in their way as much as possible, we can work our way back from the brink.
- pc86 22d ago[flagged]
- deleted 22d ago[deleted]
- 0cf8612b2e1e 22d agoI am so Le tired of hearing people give a damn about the state of the world. Why can’t you all just be more passive non voters like myself? The world has not literally ended yet, so all concerns are overblown.
- kelseyfrog 22d agoExactly! We should only work to prevent the end of the world after it has ended.
- deleted 22d ago[deleted]
- mplanchard 22d ago
- drop_star 22d agowhich reality show host is running the EPA now?
- awakeasleep 22d agoI wonder if you could open any type of business as a datacenter now, to avoid the review.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 22d agoHilarious legal maneuver. Soon to see, Jack’s Slaughterhouse Datacenter, Dean’s Nuclear Waste Repo and Datacenter, et I can surely squirrel away a couple of GPUs into any random closet and rent out the capacity.
- selimthegrim 22d agoJones BBQ and Data Center (Chicagoland only)
- hackingonempty 22d agoA similar maneuver is already being used for the White House National Security Ballroom.
- chasd00 22d agoread the article (shocking i know) there's no avoiding a review. The local government can have as much public review as it wants. This is where control should have been all along since the local government is accountable to the local community.
- gusgus01 22d agoThe article says they're considering removing the federal requirement that state governments even tell their constituents let alone allow public review. So literally yes you can avoid the review... until you manage to convince your local government to pass their own version of this law, or vote out the existing people if they are against this thing you didn't think you had to care about because it was already law. And the slated time is within a year, so good luck accomplishing that in time. Also please note the rules of this forum: Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that".
- Analemma_ 22d agoFunnily enough this probably the most safetyist thing the administration could do at the moment, since this will certainly autocatalyze more opposition to DC construction in a bunch of states and probably accelerate the state-level moratoriums. A big thank you to the White House for taking AI pause as such an urgent priority.
- 59percentmore 22d agoAntis are running out of time to stop what they wish to stop without resorting to destructive methods (bold and extreme action is already necessary). Pros are running out of time to square their ambitions with a public that's about to go from needing a leg up to a public that wants their heads.
- millerm 22d agoExecutive Protection Agency
- ck2 22d ago"for the next 800 days" (this is what I say in my head everytime I read a horrible headline) but of course a lot of permanent damage can be set in motion in that time
- aqme28 22d agoSo-- basically until the next administration. Interesting timing.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 22d agoAt which point installations can be grandfathered in under previous rules. It would be so unfair to the corporations to suddenly have to meet the stricter standards that came out of nowhere.
- palmotea 22d agoPerhaps the next administration will drop a few cluster bombs on some hyperscaler data centers. The air force needs targets to practice on, after all. Then throughout the land there will be much rejoicing and feelings of justice done, as trillions of dollars of GPUs go up in smoke.
- twsted 22d agoI can’t believe we’re seeing so much bad news coming from EPA. Why all this backtracking from an agency that used to be so effective and well organized? Well, I guess we know the reason.
- mistrial9 22d agoI agree with the sentiment but you lack context. The SuperFund has been a training ground for stall-and-pad-billing for decades. Certain bureaucrats gained lifetime employment for stall-and-declare skills. Critics on all sides have ample ammunition AFAIK
- mbgerring 22d agoReally, you can’t? When the President and his party have been saying out loud for decades that they want to destroy the EPA?
- nba456_ 22d agoBad news? This is good news.
- hnmullany 22d agoBecause it's now headed by an ex-lobbyist for the chemical industry
- alex43578 22d agoThe same EPA that under 5+ administrations has taken no material action to reduce the effects of climate change? Approved the widespread use of PFAS for stuff as silly as egg pans and snowboard wax, poisoning people's blood and community water supplies for decades? The same EPA that allows the use of leaded AVgas for flights over communities and schools, because otherwise a dentist might have to pay a little more for his Cessna flight? Gosh, they were such a paragon of environmental protection, effective and well organized in the last 40 years.
- kyleweng 22d agoYeah, they were bad at their jobs before, so we should make them even worse now!
- Simulacra 22d agoWell, that's not gonna happen, under the administrative procedures act they'll have to open it up for public comment, which opens it up for lawsuits.
- deleted 22d ago[deleted]
- schainks 22d agoThis is really bad news. Here's a good look at what infrasound is doing to humans near datacenters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bP80DEAbuo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bP80DEAbuo
- deadbabe 22d agoIt’s strange because on one hand, people don’t want to live near data centers, but on the other: the rampant use of AI signals people really *do* want data centers. The proposal to put data centers in space doesn’t seem too far fetched.
- Fischgericht 22d agoThe crazy part is that everybody in the US calls this "data center pollution". Over here in Frankfurt/Germany, we have data centers in the middle of the city, right next to residential housing. You don't smell anything, you do not hear anything. A data center can simply put the heat pumps onto the roof or in the backyard pointing away from housing. Humans have developed noise protection systems for ages. All this stuff is available. This is just end-stage capitalism giving a sh*t about humans, burning fossil fuels without any filters of any kind next to kids playing outside like it's the year 1920.
- RankingMember 22d agoIt's like we're on a 100 year cycle over here, gilded age part 2 and a return to letting those who aren't rich eat straight industrial pollution so the rich can keep getting richer.
- epistasis 22d agoI'm sure this will stop all the public opposition to data centers! /s This type of thing will just enrage the opposition more, give them far more fuel, and attract far more people into opposing data centers. The ruling regime is used to controlling a subservient political group that always, 100% falls in line to marching orders. Now that they control the entire country, they either need to have oppressed tho populace enough that all objection gets arrested or is subject to immediate political violence. But that's not going to be possible with how unpopular they have made themselves.
- snowwrestler 22d agoThese changes will last exactly as long as this administration, so it would be a pretty foolish business that makes long term investment decisions based on this announcement.
- amluto 22d agoThe changes may not last, but it’s quite unusual for an already-permitted facility to lose permission to operate.
- snowwrestler 21d agoA lot of unusual things are happening in government lately.
- imglorp 22d agoIt's a pretty foolish business plan to depend on wrecking the planet. I get one small comfort knowing that Wall Street will be increasingly under water as the climate disaster progresses (remember Sandy?).
- bayindirh 22d ago> It's a pretty foolish business plan to depend on wrecking the planet. People who thinks they need the planet to survive until they die sees it as a great opportunity to reap the value they generated over their lifetime. It's very shortsighted and foolish desire.
- htrp 22d agowall street already moved to higher ground
- genxy 22d agoWall Street will just move to Mars.
- mlindner 22d ago
- sambull 22d agoWhen you can't tell if it's profit motive or the AGI has already taken over.
- mbgerring 22d agoIMO, capitalism is itself an unaligned artificial intelligence, with its own logic and goals orthogonal to human life. All “ex risk” paranoia is a projection of sublimated anxiety about capitalism.
- andrewflnr 22d agoIt's paperclip maximization either way.
- agentultra 22d agoThe EPA hasn’t been able to regulate anything since it’s been gutted by the current administration. Of course it’s going to scrap rules. We’re not even allowed to measure the effects of climate change.
- westurner 22d agoSo plan for a heavy crack down or a severe rule change after this probably short-lived partisan deregulatory action? And a return to voluntary membership in the Paris Agreement?
- mbgerring 22d agoThis is the missing context for NIMBYism. The legal mechanisms used to stall construction in San Francisco were created because of an explicitly racist plan to demolish people’s homes to build freeways. The people building datacenters should stop, take a breath, and think a few moves ahead about how to get to real agreement and mutual benefit with surrounding communities instead of just driving a truck over them. Nobody’s going to be happy with the consequences.
- slumberlust 22d agoHas capitalism ever stopped and thought instead of hitting full throttle at any cost?
- mbgerring 22d agoNot in my lifetime!
- westurner 22d agoOther datacenter concerns in other communities? - water usage - water pressure - water contamination (from evaporative cooling towers concentrating metals) - purple pipe water - heat waste from air cooling - corrosion from evaporative cooling - decibel levels (due to 60 Hz AC, air cooling fans, evaporative coolers,) - electronics recycling - non-sustainable and near-conflict chip inputs - PFAS in waste process water - energy usage - emissions from nonrenewable electricity sources - compact fast diesel for the generators Constraints to solve within would help solve.
- westurner 22d agoHere's another example: "EPA to Weaken Rules on Methane Pollution From “Stripper Wells”" (2026) https://www.propublica.org/article/methane-gas-epa-proposal-stripper-wells https://www.propublica.org/article/methane-gas-epa-proposal-... Methane is a potent greenhouse gas; it's worse than CO2. Wells leaking methane cause it to be hotter. We need to cap wells that are leaking methane. We should pay for regular aerial methane surveys.
- deleted 22d ago[deleted]
- doctoboggan 22d agoThe administration is way behind the curve on this one. Data center opposition is one of the rare areas that has bipartisan support.
- lelanthran 22d ago> Data center opposition is one of the rare areas that has bipartisan support. This is true. Although, I think resistance to datacenters is just a symptom of the majority of people being anti-AI. You have to be really dumb not to view a devaluing of your skills is a bad thing.
- pingou 22d agoBut data centers would still be built outside of your country, in China for example. So if you really believe AI is gonna devalue your skills, you'd rather want data centers to be built in your country and potentially get dividends/UBI rather than in another country and have your job decimated by international competition and get nothing in return.
- lelanthran 22d ago> So if you really believe AI is gonna devalue your skills, you'd rather want data centers to be built in your country This makes no sense. It's just as true for the reverse assertion "If you really believe that AI won't devalue your skills, you'd rather want data centers to be built in your country". If it's true for both assertions (very big IF), then why state it? > rather than in another country and have your job decimated by international competition and get nothing in return. Again, this assertion makes absolutely no sense. You don't see why citizens would protest against local companies, companies which are the recipients of the value created by local taxpayers, devaluing their skills? It's also really odd that you think they'll get anything in return. What makes you think this? Has this ever happened in the past, in the US, when too-big-too-fail companies laid off all their staff? This unwarranted optimism is the stuff of science fiction. ================= TBH I can't really tell where you're going with this. You appear to be implying that either: 1. The objectors don't really believe that AI will devalue them, or 2. That you believe that AI won't devalue them, or 3. Perhaps you want to indicate that their jobs are going to be decimated anyway, thus they shouldn't be objecting anyway. Which is it?
- TitaRusell 22d agoSo much for no taxation without representation.
- arjie 22d agoGood. Public review is nonsensical anyway. The public always “wants everything in one bag but the bag shouldn’t be heavy”. Elected representatives, and a set of rules with enforcement are a far better system than discretionary review. We can’t have everyone extracting rent from all productive pursuits. If the public has their way they’d prefer to have the right to vote on who gets to be their neighbor.
- dylan604 22d agoPublic review is the only way the public has to counter a public official acting on their own behalf instead of the constituents before election day.
- deleted 22d ago[deleted]
- chasd00 22d agoftfa "provide the state and local agencies most familiar with local issues the discretion to determine whether, when, and for how long to provide opportunities for public participation." so give local government the controls, that doesn't seem so bad. As for the next line in the article saying people are losing faith in their local government i don't buy that a bit. Local government and elections are where your vote and voice are loudest. The most faith lost seems to be at the federal level. Triggering articles like this are usually not so alarming if you take the time to read them and fish out the details. They're made for social media distribution and engagement from the headline alone.
- EA-3167 22d agoHere's the thing... pollution is a global issue. We share the same atmosphere, we share the same grid, we share the same resources to generate energy. So no this isn't an issue for local governments who can be easily bribed, it's absolutely something the federal gov should be all over. This isn't some "gotcha" you're offering, it's damning.
- AnthonyMouse 22d agoAbout the only type of pollution which is actually global is CO2, which is exactly the thing this kind of review has nothing to do with. If you want people to emit less CO2 then you price carbon and as a result everyone has that amount of incentive to prefer alternate means of generating electricity.
- EA-3167 22d agoFrom the article: > The federal Environmental Protection Agency plans to scrap a federal requirement that states tell the public — and allow public comment — before approving air-pollution permits for industrial facilities. That includes the data centers rising across the country, as well as the power plants built to feed their enormous appetite for electricity. Second or third paragraph no less.
- 20d ago
- shevy-java 22d agoTrump really works for billionaires only. 33% of the public in the USA still do not understand this.
- ETH_start 22d agoI'm of the opinion that billionaires are good for the economy. Wages in the US are about double what they are in the EU. There are some aspects in which the EU provides a higher quality of life, but those have nothing to do with tax rates or the concentration of billionaires. They're more related to things like good city planning allowing for pedestrian and biking-friendly neighbourhoods (E.g. 50% of commutes to work in Copenhagen are by bike, where in the U.S. it's less than 1%.), old cohesive cultures, and better, more developed culinary traditions. The billionaires here are just a scapegoat because the rent-seeking parties need a target that is naturally unsympathetic for the public to direct its anger toward. The National Education Association is the largest union in the US with three million members. 99% of its campaign contributions go to the Democrats. I haven't seen a single policy that it advocates that is actually good for society. If you look at the jurisdictions where the teachers' unions hold the most sway, they make the least efficient use of public money. New York spends three times more than Florida per pupil on public education and has slightly worse academic performance.
- int_19h 20d ago> the rent-seeking parties How do you think billionaires become billionaires?
- ETH_start 20d agoMaking investments that produce a positive return, by supplying consumers with higher quality goods and services at a lower cost, is not rent-seeking.
- int_19h 20d agoThe investors don't manufacture those higher quality goods and services - their workers do. The investors collect economic rent from the worker's outputs.
- willmeyers 22d agoThe US is in a new cold war. It's clear that the government has determined that who owns AI will be leaders in this century and they will do whatever is necessary to accomplish that - I mean in the 50s into the 90s we nuked our own soil - I don't know what we expect here.
- ForOldHack 22d agoThis just simply removes the last vestiges of the old Republic, and leads the way to the common deployment of Chinese designed AI reactors, which while designed by AI, are really for the burning of the sky in preparation of a Matrix future. It has been foretold: It is the way.
- selimthegrim 22d agoDid you miss some Terminator background color on your way to Albuquerque?
- quicklywilliam 22d agoJust in time for midterms.
- ltbarcly3 22d agoThe nonsense about 'using all the water' and datacenter protests has to be a Chinese psyop. It's so fantastically stupid to protest someone taking an empty field and paying local taxes on it and employing dozens of highly paid people in the middle of nowhere. There's literally no downside. There is effectively no pollution. There are jobs for every level of education, from security guard to the people installing hardware. There's no toxic runoff, no danger of a chemical explosion, and no carcinogens being dumped. This is the only rural industry you can say that about. Water is a renewable resource. I know you folks in California can't comprehend this, but in the parts of the country where it actually makes sense for humans to live water just falls from the sky multiple times per week. We get so much water the problem is making sure we get rid of it safely, we don't have to fight over who has the most senior claim to it or decide whether we want to have endangered species or almonds more. Our streams don't run dry 4/5 of the year. We don't have to check about water restrictions when we water our lawns because there are never water restrictions and we never have to water our lawns. There are entire areas miles across in this country where if you drive through it you might throw up from the smell. The ponds full of animal feces make the air un-breathable. Where is the protest over that? You realize that this literally does ruin ground water and poisons surface water? Where are the people coming out to say they have to live 4 miles from oceans of pig feces and when the wind blows their way they can't go outside? Yet the media is able to find the 4 people on earth that want to say a building full of computers is 'loud' and that computers use lots of water? When was the last time you filled the water tank on your computer? Yet people are very quick to believe that somehow a warehouse with a bunch of computers in it somehow destroys water? When did datacenters start using up all the water? Nobody seemed to worry about this until the US and China were fighting for AI dominance, then suddenly datacenters use water and are so loud people go insane from them. What is the first time someone mentioned datacenters using water and causing pollution? It's absolute group psychosis. Are you actually so dumb that you don't notice that a thing that has been around for 50 years suddenly is a threat to our survival? Were you born yesterday so you don't remember 2 years ago when nobody had ever realized the existential threat of building datacenters in America? Why didn't anyone notice that datacenters were pumping the wells dry in 2021? Maybe they weren't and still arent...
- tzs 22d ago
- fithisux 22d agoOf course it is. The datacenters are running personalized cops, they will get their cut for sure. This is how we will transition to the new Slave Age.
- yyyk 22d ago"Slave Age"? Slaves were kept because they were economically useful. It's not clear Humans will be economically useful in the new age.
- fithisux 22d agoYou can help me here. Maybe slavery as a word is not suitable. I think they need humans to recycle money They need humans to run the green economy as the Afro-americans in the south They need humans as a hunting sport, how to make them do what we need. Let's play with them. The AI is not viable as a business model. So they will use it as a tool for their purposes as long as they can.
- ieatcandlewax 22d ago[dead]
- questionableans 22d agoThere is a huge business opportunity to become the world leader in sustainable data center design. Whoever wins could one day have immense influence over every single data center in the world (or even out of this world, where efficient resource utilization would likely be essential). It’s disappointing to see the United States miss out: US companies and research institutions would actually be extremely competitive in this field with the right government incentives.
- deepwoods 22d agoIsn't the goal to power most non-earthbound data centers with solar? I am no scientist, but going out to space feels like it gets rid of most of the downsides to solar.
- splicebot 22d agoI think most people who are working towards greater AI would consider that not an opportunity, but planning to lose in a game that is winner(s) take all. Winning scenarios in AI don't include being accountable for sustainability and they don't include expertise being valuable. Winners will decide what sustainable means for them.
- leptons 22d agoWinner take all is a farce. It didn't work for Uber when they tried to out-spend the competition, Lyft is still very much a thing, and so are taxis (the non-robo kind). There will always be many, many AI companies and trying to execute "winner take all" in this space is only going to make more problems and waste a shit-ton of money.
- alex43578 22d agoIf you subscribe to an AGI/ASI view, the stakes are different than the network effects that Uber thinks they could get. Success here would mean you could theoretically pull away from the competition so far and so fast, whether that be at a company or nation-state level.
- msie 22d agoTrump and co have done so many awful things that I forgot about their gutting of the EPA. There is no punishment fitting for him and the idiots who voted for him. A significant amount seem to prowl around HN I'll add. They can read and write but can't think apparently.
- sagebird 22d agopublic forums should be for exchanging ideas and not a place to virtue signal whatever fad Nextdoor/Facebook emotional bait normies are feeding each other via brain rot feeds. the public essentially has little interest in preventing human extinction. And tons of interest in preventing data centers under false arguments and performative displays. What is the point of empowering the public when they are not curious but rather emotional children. Basically, to empower the public now means, how to bastardize your arguments into an emotional narrative that is palatable to the commoners but probably misses all relevant arguments. Like if you think x-risk is real, and datacenters are benign/reasonable/can-be-done-in-net-local-positive-way - then you are incentivized to pretend like datacenter are bad because peasants will not entertain your x risk calculus. It's a herding/shepherding game where the only people willing to play are compromised.
- atomicthumbs 22d ago>the public essentially has little interest in preventing human extinction. yes, most people don't belong to that cult
- ianm218 22d agoHasn’t the idea of existential risks entered the kind of “cultural elite Overton window” at this point? Bill gates is talking about it, NYT just ran a bunch articles on AI safety concerns, a reporter just asked Trump about it in a one on one. Feels unfair to still dismiss it as a cult LessWrong thing at this point.
- scared_together 22d ago> It's a herding/shepherding game where the only people willing to play are compromised. This is how all politics is, and frankly the existential risk crowd needs to learn how to play the game instead of complaining about it.
- wallst07 21d agoIt's "all politics" when you agree to a particular issue It's "regime" or "fascism" when you don't.
- techscruggs 22d agoThis article seems incredibly biased. Is there a more balanced report of what is actually occurring?
- rcpt 22d agoPublic comment is bad. It gives people with time to comment far more power than those who can't. It's one of the major reasons we can't building housing or high speed rail.
- ETH_start 22d agoThis doesn't scrap public review. It scraps federal mandates requiring public review. The states can decide for themselves if a public review is required. This is a good thing. As the ability for highly motivated activist groups to veto projects is a major strategic impediment for the economic expansion of the United States.
- mlindner 22d agoI'm glad to see this. Anti data center propaganda is rampant right now, with large amounts of it proven to be pushed by China to slow down American AI companies. We have tons of oil processing facilities, way more than data centers and they use way more water.
- charcircuit 21d agoSo they are able to get permits in parallel with building the the datacenter. That seems like a net good.
- talon8635 21d agoThis is stupid, but when will people realize that water and pollution affect large time scales and are thus irrelevant peanuts in comparison to a potential existential event. We obviously want clean air and water, but this is the wrong battle to fight. It’s a fantastic way to divide humans though and distract them with their political team rivalries.
- polski-g 21d agoIf the public is going to continually lie about datacenters, obviously their input should be excluded.