6 ms·

Texas > In 2023, the Texas Legislature unanimously passed a law raising auto insurance costs for Texans by $1 to combat rampant catalytic converter theft. > T

by k310 1mo ago

Texas > In 2023, the Texas Legislature unanimously passed a law raising auto insurance costs for Texans by $1 to combat rampant catalytic converter theft. > The Motor Vehicle Crime Prevention Authority, led by a board mostly appointed by Gov. Greg Abbott, has turned the $1 fee hike into at least 3,200 Flock cameras. More coming. Meanwhile, secure your EV!!! Batteries will be next!!!

SoftTalker 1mo ago
In Texas I'm surprised it's not legal to shoot a catalytic converter thief if caught in the act. That's what they used to do for cattle rustlers.
- ceejayoz 1mo ago
  https://guides.sll.texas.gov/gun-laws/stand-your-ground https://guides.sll.texas.gov/gun-laws/stand-your-ground links to https://www.uslawshield.com/defend-property-texas/ https://www.uslawshield.com/defend-property-texas/ > Texas law allows you to use deadly force to protect property if you would be justified in using force, and you reasonably believe it is immediately necessary to prevent the imminent commission of specific enumerated property crimes. These are arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime. I'd think that'd qualify. https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/?tab=1&code=PE&chapter=PE.9&artSec=#D https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/?tab=1&code=PE&chapter=PE... > Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property: > (1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and > (2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary: > (A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or (B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and > (3) he reasonably believes that: > (A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or (B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
  - sokoloff 1mo ago
    I can’t see a catalytic converter theft on a car parked on the street as burglary. Parked in a (private) garage? Yes, burglary. Parked on the street? No. So, daytime theft of a converter from a car parked outside wouldn’t qualify I don’t think.
    - thaumasiotes 1mo ago
      If you sleep in the car it will qualify no matter where you're parked. This also appears to be true of an RV or any vehicle that clearly accommodates sleeping. For reference: "Burglary" under the Texas penal code is defined by entering a habitation or any portion of a building that is not open to the public, either with the intent to commit a crime, or when followed by the actual commission of, or the attempt to commit, a crime. "Robbery" is theft in which the thief causes an injury to someone else. (Or intentionally threatens to do so.) "Theft" is what it sounds like. Most notably burglary need not include any element of theft. I feel like it's a mistake for the legal code to distinguish between what are fully interchangeable terms in the language the code is supposedly written in. On topic for this particular comment, "habitation" is specifically defined to include vehicles "adapted for the overnight accommodation of persons".
      - thejazzman 1mo ago
        > Private Domicile, BITCH https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEdaQcq4w88 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEdaQcq4w88
      - logicchains 1mo ago
        >I feel like it's a mistake for the legal code to distinguish between what are fully interchangeable terms in the language the code is supposedly written in. They're not at all fully interchangeable, just many Americans have a poor grasp of the English language.
        thaumasiotes 1mo ago
        The language is solely defined by what people think it means. The terms are in fact fully interchangeable. If you'd like it packaged in something that looks authoritative, you might consider the following definitions from Merriam-Webster: burgle: to commit robbery rob: to take away as loot : steal thieve: steal, rob
- dghlsakjg 1mo ago
  You can use force in Texas to stop property crime. Fire away, I guess.
- hopelessluca 1mo ago
  My comment may sound cliché, but I genuinely believe this, no material possession is worth more than a human life. A catalytic converter can be replaced, a life cannot.
  - Geonode 1mo ago
    The thief shouldn't value something more than his life then.
    - rationalist 1mo ago
      More specifically: The thief valued the gain of the crime more than the risk of the crime.
  - bryanlarsen 1mo ago
    That's not cliché; Texas is the only state that applies stand-your-ground to crimes against property alone.
    - giardini 1mo ago
      bryanlarsen says "Texas is the only state that applies stand-your-ground to crimes against property alone." Not true.
      - bryanlarsen 1mo ago
        Not true in which direction? If another state allows it, which one? Lots of states apply stand-your-ground against robbery, but robbery is a threat to a person, not just property.
  - GaryBluto 1mo ago
    Nobody is forcing people to risk their lives to infringe on other people's rights. Whenever I see a news article about a criminal killed in the act, I never think "I wish they were alive.", I think "I wish they never went down that path in the first place that lead to that scenario."
- exabrial 1mo ago
  I would love to live in a world where thieves feared for their lives.
  - cosmicgadget 1mo ago
    Sounds like Texas is the place for you.
    - ultrarunner 1mo ago
      No, I think their civil forfeiture rates are quite a bit higher than average. Property taxes too. Quite a bit of fearless thievery going on in Texas.
      - cosmicgadget 1mo ago
        Civil forfeiture, sure but the property taxes are presumably to offset the lack of income tax, neither of which is thievery outside of a Zerohedge comment section.
      - giardini 1mo ago
        Yeah, but who know how many thieves end up dead. And regardless of state, there's always revenge - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071402/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071402/
  - 3eb7988a1663 1mo ago
    Yet I believe crime still happens in Texas.
  - jrflowers 1mo ago
    You want thieves to be armed?
    - AlexandrB 1mo ago
      They frequently already are. Even here in Canada[1] where any kind of "carry" is generally not allowed. Shockingly, thieves often don't care about gun laws though. [1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-police-cash-reward-fairview-mall-robbery-shooting-9.7178567 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-police-cash-r...
- zippyman55 1mo ago
  https://media.makeameme.org/created/ai-is-going-28c40ae773.png https://media.makeameme.org/created/ai-is-going-28c40ae773.p...
- guillybarres 1mo ago
  If you do that in Texas they'll give you the key to the city. A man was once acquitted after using an AK-47 to shoot an escort who was being driven away after robbing him of $150: https://www.nydailynews.com/2013/06/07/texas-prostitutes-jilted-killer-acquitted-was-trying-to-retrieve-stolen-property-says-jury/ https://www.nydailynews.com/2013/06/07/texas-prostitutes-jil....
tehwebguy 1mo ago
What an insane trade off. Seems like a few bait cars and a couple of trackers would be plenty to figure out where the converters are getting fenced. Obviously there is a small number of buyers driving the entire catalytic theft economy.
- dfxm12 1mo ago
  It's not about catalytic converters. It's about installing surveillance cameras and probably getting kick backs from flock.
aussieguy1234 1mo ago
EV batteries weigh hundreds of kilos. They typically require a mechanical workshop with a hoist to remove, not something your typical theif could easily steal on a street corner.
seanmcdirmid 1mo ago
Stealing an EV battery is harder than stealing a cat.

by k310 1mo ago

SoftTalker 1mo ago

In Texas I'm surprised it's not legal to shoot a catalytic converter thief if caught in the act. That's what they used to do for cattle rustlers.

ceejayoz 1mo ago
https://guides.sll.texas.gov/gun-laws/stand-your-ground https://guides.sll.texas.gov/gun-laws/stand-your-ground links to https://www.uslawshield.com/defend-property-texas/ https://www.uslawshield.com/defend-property-texas/ > Texas law allows you to use deadly force to protect property if you would be justified in using force, and you reasonably believe it is immediately necessary to prevent the imminent commission of specific enumerated property crimes. These are arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime. I'd think that'd qualify. https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/?tab=1&code=PE&chapter=PE.9&artSec=#D https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/?tab=1&code=PE&chapter=PE... > Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property: > (1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and > (2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary: > (A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or (B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and > (3) he reasonably believes that: > (A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or (B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
- sokoloff 1mo ago
  I can’t see a catalytic converter theft on a car parked on the street as burglary. Parked in a (private) garage? Yes, burglary. Parked on the street? No. So, daytime theft of a converter from a car parked outside wouldn’t qualify I don’t think.
  - thaumasiotes 1mo ago
    If you sleep in the car it will qualify no matter where you're parked. This also appears to be true of an RV or any vehicle that clearly accommodates sleeping. For reference: "Burglary" under the Texas penal code is defined by entering a habitation or any portion of a building that is not open to the public, either with the intent to commit a crime, or when followed by the actual commission of, or the attempt to commit, a crime. "Robbery" is theft in which the thief causes an injury to someone else. (Or intentionally threatens to do so.) "Theft" is what it sounds like. Most notably burglary need not include any element of theft. I feel like it's a mistake for the legal code to distinguish between what are fully interchangeable terms in the language the code is supposedly written in. On topic for this particular comment, "habitation" is specifically defined to include vehicles "adapted for the overnight accommodation of persons".
    - thejazzman 1mo ago
      > Private Domicile, BITCH https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEdaQcq4w88 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEdaQcq4w88
    - logicchains 1mo ago
      >I feel like it's a mistake for the legal code to distinguish between what are fully interchangeable terms in the language the code is supposedly written in. They're not at all fully interchangeable, just many Americans have a poor grasp of the English language.
      - thaumasiotes 1mo ago
        The language is solely defined by what people think it means. The terms are in fact fully interchangeable. If you'd like it packaged in something that looks authoritative, you might consider the following definitions from Merriam-Webster: burgle: to commit robbery rob: to take away as loot : steal thieve: steal, rob
dghlsakjg 1mo ago
You can use force in Texas to stop property crime. Fire away, I guess.
hopelessluca 1mo ago
My comment may sound cliché, but I genuinely believe this, no material possession is worth more than a human life. A catalytic converter can be replaced, a life cannot.
- Geonode 1mo ago
  The thief shouldn't value something more than his life then.
  - rationalist 1mo ago
    More specifically: The thief valued the gain of the crime more than the risk of the crime.
- bryanlarsen 1mo ago
  That's not cliché; Texas is the only state that applies stand-your-ground to crimes against property alone.
  - giardini 1mo ago
    bryanlarsen says "Texas is the only state that applies stand-your-ground to crimes against property alone." Not true.
    - bryanlarsen 1mo ago
      Not true in which direction? If another state allows it, which one? Lots of states apply stand-your-ground against robbery, but robbery is a threat to a person, not just property.
- GaryBluto 1mo ago
  Nobody is forcing people to risk their lives to infringe on other people's rights. Whenever I see a news article about a criminal killed in the act, I never think "I wish they were alive.", I think "I wish they never went down that path in the first place that lead to that scenario."
exabrial 1mo ago
I would love to live in a world where thieves feared for their lives.
- cosmicgadget 1mo ago
  Sounds like Texas is the place for you.
  - ultrarunner 1mo ago
    No, I think their civil forfeiture rates are quite a bit higher than average. Property taxes too. Quite a bit of fearless thievery going on in Texas.
    - cosmicgadget 1mo ago
      Civil forfeiture, sure but the property taxes are presumably to offset the lack of income tax, neither of which is thievery outside of a Zerohedge comment section.
    - giardini 1mo ago
      Yeah, but who know how many thieves end up dead. And regardless of state, there's always revenge - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071402/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071402/
- 3eb7988a1663 1mo ago
  Yet I believe crime still happens in Texas.
- jrflowers 1mo ago
  You want thieves to be armed?
  - AlexandrB 1mo ago
    They frequently already are. Even here in Canada[1] where any kind of "carry" is generally not allowed. Shockingly, thieves often don't care about gun laws though. [1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-police-cash-reward-fairview-mall-robbery-shooting-9.7178567 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-police-cash-r...
zippyman55 1mo ago
https://media.makeameme.org/created/ai-is-going-28c40ae773.png https://media.makeameme.org/created/ai-is-going-28c40ae773.p...
guillybarres 1mo ago
If you do that in Texas they'll give you the key to the city. A man was once acquitted after using an AK-47 to shoot an escort who was being driven away after robbing him of $150: https://www.nydailynews.com/2013/06/07/texas-prostitutes-jilted-killer-acquitted-was-trying-to-retrieve-stolen-property-says-jury/ https://www.nydailynews.com/2013/06/07/texas-prostitutes-jil....

tehwebguy 1mo ago

What an insane trade off. Seems like a few bait cars and a couple of trackers would be plenty to figure out where the converters are getting fenced. Obviously there is a small number of buyers driving the entire catalytic theft economy.

dfxm12 1mo ago
It's not about catalytic converters. It's about installing surveillance cameras and probably getting kick backs from flock.

aussieguy1234 1mo ago

EV batteries weigh hundreds of kilos. They typically require a mechanical workshop with a hoist to remove, not something your typical theif could easily steal on a street corner.

seanmcdirmid 1mo ago

Stealing an EV battery is harder than stealing a cat.