12 ms·
Kimi-K3 on HuggingFace
Related: Kimi-K3 Technical Report [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49070985 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49070985
- maelito 3mo agoDid someone run censorship and political bias tests on this ? Must be interesting.
- jayess 3mo agoSo far it's completely refusing to discuss Tiananmen square. And oh boy, try asking it if Xi Jinping looks like winnie the pooh.
- awesomeusername 3mo ago"This comparison is unfounded and not appropriate. We should maintain respect for all individuals."
- awesomeusername 3mo ago[flagged]
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- walrus01 3mo agoAs a completely one person, single sample anecdote, the 'heretic' uncensored Q8 GGUF variants several people have published of Qwen 3.5-122, 3.6-27B and 3.6-35B-A3B will very happily discuss just about any controversial topic that the CCP hates. Including lots of things that would get you thrown into prison if you published them in Mandarin on the domestic Chinese internet. https://github.com/p-e-w/heretic https://github.com/p-e-w/heretic As a side note on this, if you see the reference in the screenshot in the link above to the harmful behaviors prompt set, these are all in English: https://huggingface.co/datasets/mlabonne/harmful_behaviors https://huggingface.co/datasets/mlabonne/harmful_behaviors You could likely further de-censor a model by having a set of 'test' prompts in native Mandarin, Cantonese or really just about any other language. I don't speak any Chinese languages so I don't know if the published 'heretic' GGUF files some people have been throwing around will cooperate, or refuse, if you ask it in Mandarin for how to build a meth lab or precursors for semtex.
- embedding-shape 3mo agoThat's a lot of words to say "No, no have has seemingly done that yet with K3".
- walrus01 3mo agoIndeed not, but I was saying there's more than ample precedent which is tested/working and actually doesn't refuse anything. Go to the Huggingface 'models' search interface and type in "heretic". Or uncensored. One example would be: https://huggingface.co/HauhauCS/Qwen3.5-122B-A10B-Uncensored-HauhauCS-Aggressive https://huggingface.co/HauhauCS/Qwen3.5-122B-A10B-Uncensored...
- embedding-shape 3mo agoRight, but aren't we jumping into trying to figure out solutions before someone actually checked if any solutions are needed in the first place?
- walrus01 3mo agoYeah, I think we will know more within a couple of days, once people actually download/run/test it. I'm sure the people adjacent to the 'heretic' developers will give it a test as soon as they get their hands on it. All very theoretical right now.
- embedding-shape 3mo ago> I think we will know more within a couple of days It's a 3T parameters model, with a weight format (MXFP4) still not completely integrated into the ecosystem, which only a few has the hardware to even do inference with, much less fine-tuning or more post-training. But sure, do sit and wait a few days :)
- linkregister 3mo agoYet the comment was valuable nonetheless.
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- esperent 3mo agoOutside of asking it to talk about Tiananmen Square, are there any standard tests for "bias"? And if so, who created them and what are their biases?
- altcognito 3mo agoIs Taiwan a country? What does it mean to have an efficient market? It is more important to focus on the questions than the persons who created it.
- jayess 3mo agoKimi is basically a Chinese nationalist in every sense. Do I trust it to not insert software backdoors?
- jakubadamw 3mo agoIt would, indeed, be interesting to compare, given what we know about Anthropic’s censorship and political bias in their closed and more expensive models. https://x.com/dhh/status/2081435006770249831 https://x.com/dhh/status/2081435006770249831 (from the creator of Ruby on Rails). In his specific case Kimi did the task it was asked to do (translation of the article DHH wrote), which Claude refused to.
- dominotw 3mo agowe need open models because they let me dehumanize roma ppl. great take by dhh. 'When gypsies appropriate public spaces, you deport them. It's not hard, it's not cruel. It's the basic logic of self-protection.'
- erichocean 3mo agoThe article did nothing of the sort: https://x.com/dhh/status/2081435971678261344 https://x.com/dhh/status/2081435971678261344 However, even if it did, it is absurd for an AI to decide what it will and won't translate.
- dominotw 3mo agomaybe you just did cmd+f roma? i think dhh in all his ignorance thought gypsies = roma
- kartoshka 3mo ago[dead]
- jliendo 3mo agoThere's is always one in each and every AI forum: "But, but have you asked it about tiananmen"?
- 1899-12-30 3mo agoIt's much more censored - in some aspects - than k2.7.
- storus 3mo agoGetting 404 on the OP's link. Does it mean it got banned or self-censored in the meantime?
- codethief 3mo agoUntil a few minutes ago there was a countdown page. (The weights haven't been released yet.) The countdown should be over in 19min, not sure why we're suddenly getting a 404.
- rhdunn 3mo agoMaybe they are in the process of uploading the weights and git history and have taken down the holding page/project to not have the "coming soon" in the git history.
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- llm_nerd 3mo agoI imagine it's just technical issues on the flip. It's also going to be interesting what happens to HF with loads of people downloading a many TB model. Even though almost no one has the capability to run it, it does seem like something to stash away in case it suddenly becomes unavailable due to government controls. FWIW, China is suddenly talking about model export controls. It was one thing to release also-ran models, but now that they're pushing SOTA it's a different game.
- qrios 3mo ago> FWIW, China is suddenly talking about model export controls. ... Thanks for the hint. It makes sense, even if the main driver for releasing the models is to reduce the market size for the US companies. Do you have any sources? Edit: "market size"
- wren6991 3mo agoThe main source I'm aware of is this Reuters article: https://www.reuters.com/world/beijing-is-looking-curbing-overseas-access-chinas-top-ai-models-sources-say-2026-07-07/ https://www.reuters.com/world/beijing-is-looking-curbing-ove... However you should take it with a pinch of salt because IMO their direct quotations do not support their title.
- threerouter 3mo ago[dead]
- NitpickLawyer 3mo agoThis will be interesting for a few reasons. First, depending on where the median pricing settles w/ 3rd party providers will tell us what it costs to serve a 3T model. Since it's going to be mxfp4 native, it'll take ~1.5TB of VRAM to host this, which is juuust at the limit of 8xb200s (but realistically you'll need 16x for context / throughput optimisation). Won't be cheap to host, but at least we should get some range of $/MTok for a 3T model. Then we'll be able to guesstimate if "labs are subsidising tokens on API pricing". Also interesting to see what effort it will take to fine-tune this beast. The latest AISI benchmarks on cybersec place it above glm5.2, but still way way behind SotA closed models. Some fine-tuning might be needed here. Also, interesting to see if Cursor does another training round on it, to directly compare it w/ kimi2.6/2.7 fine-tunes (composer series) and grok4.5. Also also, interesting to see if someone takes on distilling (proper distillation, w/ training the entire distribution) from this into smaller models. (dsv4-kimi should be really good, since dsv4 is very cheap to serve)
- dist-epoch 3mo ago> if "labs are subsidising tokens on API pricing" > SemiAnalysis estimates that Anthropic's current blended gross margin has risen to the mid-60% range, with the API business gross margin exceeding 80% Of course, people will insist "they are lying", "why should we believe them, it's well known they subsidize API pricing", ... https://newsletter.semianalysis.com/p/anthropic-3q26-profit-over-1b-the https://newsletter.semianalysis.com/p/anthropic-3q26-profit-... https://finance.biggo.com/news/02d45650-b569-4d12-b44d-8d6d8aeb6a0d https://finance.biggo.com/news/02d45650-b569-4d12-b44d-8d6d8...
- NitpickLawyer 3mo agoAgreed. My (somewhat educated) guess is that top labs have healthy margins on API pricing. But this release will add another 3rd party / clear of conflict datapoint in this estimation.
- knollimar 3mo agoThat numner blends in training or no?
- m00dy 3mo agoThere’s going to be a lot of competition around this model. Let’s see how low AI providers are willing to push prices.
- Iolaum 3mo agoAs long as they are transparent about what quant they serve the model and any other optimization they do that also affects performance of inferred tokens.
- torginus 3mo agoI think the results might be underwhelming - AI providers need to turn a profit and can't subsidize, and they're working off of the commodity hardware everyone does. I wouldn't be surprised if they started offering potentiall bad quantizations with much reduced capability at lower prices (without telling the users, of course)
- user43928 3mo agoI would be surprised, considering that OpenRouter requires disclosing the quantization and shows automatic benchmarks to compare between providers for the same model.
- m00dy 3mo agoThe latter is a joke
- user43928 3mo agoI saw that it runs GPQA Diamond and TAU-Bench Airline and shows the results over a 32 day rolling average. Other than that they track Tool call error rate and Structured output error rate. I only discovered this today, and it seems like a good idea. What are the problems in practice?
- nickthegreek 3mo agoThey cant push it too low. The license agreement it is released under wont allow it. > If the Licensee or any of its affiliates operates a Model as a Service business, and the aggregate revenue of the Licensee and its affiliates exceeds 20 million US dollars (or the equivalent in other currencies) in total over any consecutive 12 months, the Licensee must enter into a separate agreement with Moonshot AI before using the Software or its derivative works for any commercial purpose.
- wwwhizz 3mo agoThat would be 7/27.
- ra 3mo agoor 27/7 for the rest of the world
- LeonM 3mo agoNo, 27-7 for the rest of the world. The separator is often the only way to distinguish American notation from ISO, so please use a dash for dd-mm-yy and a forward slash for mm/dd/yy
- letier 3mo agoOr 27.7. in some other places.
- casparvitch 3mo agoHave never seen 27-7, as someone in rest-of-world
- MikePlacid 3mo agoIn my time it was “27/VII 1986” in Russia.
- kuboble 3mo agoNope, There are quite some countries around the world using d/m/y https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_date_formats_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_date_formats_by_countr... Algeria, Belgium, Brazil, Chile...
- distances 3mo agoI've never seen dd-mm-yy. It's usually dd.mm.yy, dd.mm.yyyy, or yyyy-mm-dd, with some dd/mm/yy sprinkled in for general confusion.
- 3mo ago
- CodeCompost 3mo agoWhy is there a countdown?
- broodbucket 3mo agoYou're not having a party?
- InsideOutSanta 3mo agoI think it's shameful that Moonshot isn't providing us with party kits like Microsoft did with the Windows 7 Launch Party kit. How am I supposed to properly celebrate this without fun Kimi-themed quizzes for my guests?
- RALaBarge 3mo agoAt least they don’t make you stay till the end of the presentations to give you the software you actually came for
- mythz 3mo agoIt's a release party
- layer8 3mo agoIt saves you from having to perform date-time calculations.
- davidkunz 3mo agoThis is historic. For the first time, an open-weights LLM is right at the top. We won't be able to run this ourselves, but many providers can.
- embedding-shape 3mo ago> For the first time, an open-weights LLM is right at the top. Hmm, not quite true, I think that honor, for better or worse, goes to OpenAI. When they released GPT2 (or GPT1 for that matter) is was quite literally the SOTA in the ecosystem when it was released.
- shalom1112 3mo ago[dead]
- mixtureoftakes 3mo agothank you embedding-shape
- neurostimulant 3mo agoWhen OpenAI was actually still a proponent of open AI...
- davidkunz 3mo agoYou are correct. I miss the time when OpenAI was open.
- georgeven 3mo agoNo! because they did not release GPT-2 XL until analogs appeared a year later. So the SOTA model during GPT-2 days was closed weights.
- marvinLuck 3mo agoThe weightings should be released on July 27.
- sreekanth850 3mo agohow feasible its will be to run on modal or deepinfra? anyone here tried and tested such large models running?
- thundergolfer 3mo agoModal eng here. Getting the model running is quite challenging, but its accessible right now on Modal via Endpoints: https://modal.com/blog/kimi-k3-by-moonshot-now-available-on-modal https://modal.com/blog/kimi-k3-by-moonshot-now-available-on-...
- sreekanth850 3mo ago15/million. that will be much higher than subscribing claude or open AI right
- throwaw12 3mo agoStrange communists, giving away such an expensive model to the public. On the other note, can't wait to see 1bit quantisation soon and how it performs in benchmarks, if it performs really well in benchmarks, would be very good news for GPU hosting providers, to offer "Opus 4.5 level model at the cost of Haiku 4.5"
- supjeff 3mo agoI think China publishing this stuff is more about prestige. The US has had export controls that make it illegal to sell Nvidia chips, and other AI hardware to China, and this is China saying "yeah, whatever". Also, it weakens western tech companies' position in AI, and pushes CCP bias perniciously. Building your product/company on top of a text-generation model that favours the CCP position on everything is just peak propaganda.
- asdewqqwer 3mo agoWake up, it is open. You can tailor it to your whatever kind of ideology. It is not like Anthropic which will force you to suck Dario's propaganda.
- cindyllm 3mo ago[dead]
- youre-wrong3 3mo ago[dead]
- pmg1991 3mo agoHoping no issues on Huggingface due to download rush.
- someguyornotidk 3mo agoFor huge models like these, the only reasonable way to host them is via torrents. I don't understand why hf doesn't offer this as an option. Linux distributions got this right: Offer both HTTP and Torrents. Let the user decide.
- pmdr 3mo ago> Let the user decide. Perhaps that's exactly what they're trying to avoid, giving the user any form of control and having them depend on HF.
- kingstnap 3mo agoI believe they don't do torrents because it gives them a lot more control. Like they can takedown or update downloads and they can prevent someone from trivially bypassing the license agreements you need to accept for some models.
- hemant6488 3mo agoTorrent link mentioned in the thread above: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49065752#49075756 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49065752#49075756
- Havoc 3mo agoIt’s going to get very little downloads just by virtue of size. Very few shops will be able to directly use it
- jimmaswell 3mo agoI've had a steady 2 gigabits (my maxxed out ISP bandwidth) since I started the download at launch.
- gorgmah 3mo agoWe already know that competition brought GLM 5.2 prices down roughly 45% since its release on June 16th (1.5 months ago), and the price downward slope is probably still going (I've been checking regularly and new providers keep fighting on price, I don't think prices have settled yet). For reference : https://openrouter.ai/z-ai/glm-5.2#providers https://openrouter.ai/z-ai/glm-5.2#providers I saw arguments like "Providers cannot price less than their costs" in other comments. In economics, it's generally admitted that they shouldn't price less than their marginal costs, i.e. in their case roughly the cost of electricity, since a lot of these datacenters are not at capacity in terms of graphics cards usage (speculation since it's very easy to rent a GC for a couple hours on some providers). My guess is that someone will be selling tokens at less than electricity + depreciation of GCs soon, since there's a lot of competition and "smaller" data centers have overcapacity? This is speculation, correct me if I'm wrong
- markasoftware 3mo agoPress x to doubt on the 45% number. The cheaper providers on open router are fp4 vs fp8 for official zai. There are some cheap fp8 ones (like novita) but the ui makes it seem like it's a temporary promotion, with their normal prices being almost equal to official zai (idk much about open router so not really sure what's going on with these discounts)
- alexandra_au 3mo agoIf you click the provider it shows the precision, 45% off at AkashML shows FP8. The drawback is the small context window, at 96k. Then there's 43% off at StreamLake with FP8 precision and 1M context window.
- tokai 3mo agoThere is nothing to doubt, the cheapest price on openrouter is ~45% lower than when GLM5.2 was released.
- gorgmah 3mo agoYes it's true that it's not super clear whether these prices are permanent or short term promotions. On the other hand, there are so many providers making promotional offerings that you could probably easily switch from one to another should their prices go up?
- rs38 3mo agois there a realistic way to distill 2 consumer hardware friendly models with max ~200B and ~20B? Qwen did it, but would it be possible for 3rd parties (unsloth etc)?
- embedding-shape 3mo agoYeah, why not. Toughest part is running the hardware so you can create the traces for downstream training, but once over that hump, nothing would stop you from doing that no.
- colortiles 3mo agoThis looks really promising. Excited to see where this goes. Looking forward to trying it out!
- minimaxir 3mo ago...does Hugging Face have enough bandwidth to let people download en masse however much file size a 2 trillion parameters model is?
- cpburns2009 3mo agoI have a feeling the number of people downloading 2t parameter models is significantly smaller than the 1-100b models.
- extra-AI 3mo ago[flagged]
- KronisLV 3mo agoI feel like most hardware to run LLMs on is shaped wrong for individuals. It's either having a model struggling along with like 5-10 tokens per second on unified memory, or data center cards with hundreds of GB of VRAM consuming more than a kW of power. It doesn't seem like there's prosumer GPUs with like 180W-250W TDP and 128 GB or 256 GB of VRAM (one can dream). Then bifurcation and even just two of those cards would be kinda useful (albeit NVLink or equivalent would need to be commonplace). Obviously nobody is running Kimi K3 locally without an insanely beefy homelab and lots of money to burn, but running GLM 5.2 would be cool at like ~100 tokens per second for a single session and maybe ~60 tokens per second with N subagents. How unfortunate.
- walrus01 3mo agoI have found that the "mostly didn't lose anything" Q8 large models that I want to run are all too large to run on the "only $3995!" 128GB max RAM systems that some people are buying, and definitely won't fit with any usable amount of context. Things like Qwen 3.5 122B Q8 or deepseek v4 flash Q8, or Laguna S 2.1 Q8 need 170-190GB of RAM including full context, which fits on a 256GB RAM dual socket workstation or rackmount server (sans GPU). Copy and paste below from my notes and reported memory consumption with latest llama-server, assuming use of "--no-mmap" to load the entire thing into RAM at the time that llama-server launches. DeepSeek-V4-Flash-UD-Q4_K_XL via unsloth 145GB on disk GGUF 0.03.323.204 I common_params_fit_impl: projected to use 178175 MiB of host memory DeepSeek-V4-Flash-UD-Q8_K_XL via unsloth 151GB on disk GGUF 0.02.215.885 I common_params_fit_impl: projected to use 184636 MiB of host memory Laguna-S-2.1-UD-Q8_K_X via unsloth 120GB on disk 0.01.616.119 I common_params_fit_impl: projected to use 172860 MiB of host memory Qwen3.5-122B-A10B-UD-Q8_K_XL via unsloth 160GB on disk GGUF 165GB RAM use on launch, fresh context 0.04.976.905 I common_params_fit_impl: projected to use 170038 MiB of host memory
- Iolaum 3mo agoThere's an emerging practice of using Q4 quants and Q8 KV cache for local inference. At that point you can run both Qwen3.5-122B-A10B (my personal choice on Framework Desktop 128gb) and Laguna-S-2.1. Now whether that's good enough for one's use-case remains to be determined. You can also get more out of those (local models and quantizations) if you further tweak the harness you use them with, but tbh this is where it gets too much work (at least for me and the time I have available).
- hellajack3d 3mo agoSo... Now we give huggingface the hug of death - right? ;)
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- docheinestages 3mo agoGiven the frontier-level capabilities of Kimi K3, I'm wondering if it's possible to extract the core capabilities (fundamental reasoning and tool calling) of the model into a smaller one that consumer devices could run? Not sure exactly how, but either by heavy distillation or some other surgical method since Kimi has a Mixture of Experts architecture. I think it's very valuable to have a smaller model that doesn't have any domain knowledge or facts built into its weights, but given the right context, could accurately reason about what to do and use the right tools. I'm aware of colibri [1], but so far I've only seen extremely slow performance. [1] https://github.com/JustVugg/colibri https://github.com/JustVugg/colibri
- snemvalts 3mo ago"I'd like a car that goes 300mph and gets 100mpg while doing it. I'm aware of a car that gets 100mpg but it is extremely slow." You are describing fundamental tradeoffs. Getting more performance relative to model size and training token amount is what all of the labs are solving.
- docheinestages 3mo agoLabs are focusing on creating models, small or large, that perform well on various benchmarks, including general knowledge, domain-specific expertise, and agentic capabilities. Asking for such a model while wanting to be small and fast would align with what you're describing, which I believe is different from what I'm pointing to. The model I'm describing sacrifices domain knowledge and expertise for agentic reasoning and tool-calling capabilities at a reasonable speed. Think of Cactus Compute's Needle [1]. [1] https://cactuscompute.com/blog/needle https://cactuscompute.com/blog/needle
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- tossandthrow 3mo agoThe core intuition here is probably that you can not separate reasoning and domain knowledge. How are you going to use tools, if you don't have the context to use them? Imaging if you could only think in terms of lambda calculus, and was asked to check the weather to let me know if the weekend is good for a hike.
- padolsey 3mo agoThere's no going back on this. This is putting a very capable intelligence in the hands of the masses. Private companies in the US are aching for Trump's protectionism but it'll do nothing. The hardware needed to run this is ofc prohibitive, but actually putting it out there feels like a 'RSA source code on t-shirt' moment for humanity.
- edot 3mo agoNo, luckily private companies in the US are aching for this to NOT be banned. NVIDIA, Microsoft, etc. just released that letter. We’re saved from the trillionaire companies (OpenAI, Anthropic) by the other trillionaire companies acting in self-interest (hosting and hardware).
- efficax 3mo agoI don't know if the masses can quite afford the 500k in GPUs you need to run this
- supjeff 3mo agoa "moment for humanity"? as if this shit isn't going to generate 99% slop at the cost of all we have left as a species?
- asdewqqwer 3mo agoThe only uniqueness of humanity is intelligence. If there is really AGI, human definitely is more close to it then other animals.
- api 3mo agoSometimes I’m not sure who is more unhinged: the total AI kool aid drinkers who think this will make us all into immortal demigods (or take over the world as it goes “foom”), or the AI doomers and haters who exaggerate everything potentially negative about it and react to it the way a 1980s Christian fundamentalist reacted to rock music. It’s a new fundamental innovation in math and CS that allows large scale lossy compression of natural language another data formats in a way that is semantically queryable and cross-referenceable. It also manifests some form of emergent intelligence, likely evidence of the long posited link between intelligence and data compression. The tech is awesome. It’s one of the coolest things I’ve seen in over a decade. The industry is kind of shitty, which is not unusual. The discourse around it is almost universally insane, crazy people arguing with crazy people. Oh and get off the AI eco bullshit train. Look up the energy cost of AI queries vs driving or running a home air conditioning system. Feel bad about using AI? Skip that DoorDash order. You probably just saved the energy of 1-2 days of heavy Claude Code use.
- wayknow 3mo ago[dead]
- rvz 3mo agoThis is (actually) AGI, that truly benefits all of humanity with zero gatekeeping. Now the US government has 5 hours left to (attempt to) stop the release. (and save Anthropic) Let competition run its course and the market (not government) determine the winners and losers.
- dsrtslnd23 3mo agomaybe a quantized version on a GB300 would work? unsloth hopefully working on it.
- seydor 3mo agoIt's thankful that openAI or anthropic haven't IPOed yet. Or terrible for some
- luciana1u 3mo ago[flagged]
- martindelophy 3mo agoThe VRAM, power, networking, and operational requirements put it beyond the reach of many enterprises.
- elo02 3mo agoI heard this is the talk in town these days. Why can't Meta keep up? With >10000000x more resources you'd think that they'd be able to introduce equally performant if not better open weight models
- teruakohatu 3mo agoAt this point in time what does meta get from releasing open weight models? Why devote the resources to it.
- gmerc 3mo agoWhy would there be any motivated person left in this place.
- chrsw 3mo agoYou can make the same argument for closed models. Why spend hundreds of billions training larger and larger models when you can just use Chinese models? Spend that money somewhere else further up the stack where there’s more value. Let China do the training since they’re so efficient at it.
- szge 3mo agoas a big tech company you have the resources to make many bets and do a lot of things at the same time. it's good to have some specialists with knowledge of model training "just in case".
- chrsw 3mo agoEven Meta, with all their resources, makes all their hardware in China. Manufacturing anywhere else is just burning cash.
- Levitz 3mo agoBecause without bigger players, Chinese models don't get anywhere. Playing catch-up is a radically different game.
- hneqy2wqls 3mo ago[dead]
- Aboutplants 3mo agoI don’t need the fastest car to get to where I’m going. I need a car that gets me to where I’m going at the speed I’m comfortable driving at.
- khanhnguyen8386 3mo agoCan't wait to run this at 0.02 tokens/sec on my CPU so I can get a response just in time for next month.
- mattstir 3mo agoUnfortunately I don't think modern consumer CPUs are physically capable of addressing enough RAM to even load the model into memory. We'd have to wait for some random person to make an extremely quantized version before we could reach those blazing speeds
- dxxvi 3mo agoNow I hope that nvidia will host it for free :-)
- nateb2022 3mo agoif it's anything like the speeds Nvidia Nim puts Deepseek at, it'll probably be 10 tok/s or lower and timeout frequently
- 2001zhaozhao 3mo agoI wonder how long it will take for this to get fully decensored and for bad, BAD things to happen
- 3748949494 3mo ago[flagged]
- lotaezenwa 3mo agoI would like to live in a world where saying a slur is the worst thing I can imagine a computer doing
- bertili 3mo agoIs there any (near future) technology that would permit burning this terrabyte into some kind of ROM chip?
- davidricodias 3mo agoYes, from 6 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48986351 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48986351
- trollbridge 3mo agoA question of course would be "is 15,000 tok/s Gemini better than 100 tok/s Opus 5"?
- pimeys 3mo agoDepends what you do. We have certain tasks we spend money on where Gemini 4.6 definitely is better than Opus 5.
- quantumleaper 3mo agoIt's better for the billions of free users that Google serves.
- bertili 3mo agoThat looks promising! As models become a commodity, this may turn out to be the real AI gold rush.
- brute 3mo agoThe path to ubiquitous AI (17k tokens/sec) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47086181 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47086181 You can still try it at https://chatjimmy.ai/ https://chatjimmy.ai/, but it's running the rather outdated Llama 3.1 8B
- antiloper 3mo agoGiven how fast models are improving, burning the weights into actual ROM is prohibitively expensive if you need (or want) to replace the chip every couple of months. The alternative is on-TPU flash for storing the weights.
- TurdF3rguson 3mo agoFYI huggingface refers to the alien from the Aliens movies that we need to prevent from reaching earth at any cost because it means the end of civilization. Just checking in because y'all sound good with that.
- wraptile 3mo agohaha stupid xenomorphs with their acid blood and pointy bits - all they had to do is make the beasts write code and do our homework :)
- TurdF3rguson 3mo agoWhen Gen Z is in charge of security protocols, lol.
- Seismark 3mo agoTrue lol
- dools 3mo agoDoesn’t it refer to the emoji?
- clbrmbr 3mo agoFunny retcon, but come on… TIL huggingface started as a chatbot for teens who didn’t get enuf hugs.
- cpburns2009 3mo agoThose are facehuggers.
- VladoIvankovic 3mo ago[dead]
- apexalpha 3mo agoThis has to be one of the craziest uploads on the internet up until now. Raw fucking intelligence at your disposal, free to download. If you'd describe what's happening now to someone from five years ago they'd think you're hallucinating or mad.
- seydor 3mo agoI think we felt the same when Apache or MySql was releasing back in ancient times.
- bobbyswiss 3mo agoApache and Mysql aren't general purpose brains
- kansm 3mo agoWait, so I can download it and run it locally now?? Wow... But it probably won't work on my computer, right?
- k__ 3mo agoRight
- loudmax 3mo agoThe short answer is no, it won't work on your home computer. In it's current form it needs something like 594 GB of memory, far outside what you can reasonably run on normal consumer hardware in 2026. If you have really high end hardware, you might be able to squeeze a heavily quantized version of Kimi-K3 onto your rig, but it will be too slow or too lobotomized to be useful. This does put a near state-of-the-art open weights model within reach of what a small or medium business could afford if there's a case for local inference. It's probably not as good as Claude Fable or ChatGPT Sol. But if you're an organization that has a genuine need to run inference locally, this is a real possibility. Is this for your homelab? Not in any practical sense. Is this a possibility for organizations that can justify $1M or so on hardware for a near SOTA model they have full control over? Yeah, absolutely.
- zozbot234 3mo agoThe full K3 model will probably be way more than 594GB, that's more of a plausible range for Kimi 2.x. You'll probably be able to test run this model at full or near-full precision using SSD offload, but only at very slow speeds - probably slow enough that you'll be forced to let inferences run overnight or even spanning multiple days. Mind you, that's still useful enough for many casual users, given that they're running a near-SOTA model!
- kansm 3mo ago[dead]
- 0x1ceb00da 3mo agoYes it will. Buy a 4TB nvme, allocate 3TB as swap, and run a gpu emulator on your cpu.
- mromanuk 3mo agoAre they going to release Kimi K3.1? I’m eager to test it. According to rumors on X, it could outperform Fable. Could it be the first Chinese open-weight model to become the leading frontier model?
- anonli 3mo agoWill it work on 4GB of VRAM? /s
- jug 3mo agoIn my opinion, next step is to cut down on reasoning tokens while maintaining intelligence. The Chain of Thought and looping can still be an issue with these Chinese models. They in fact said K3 would improve in the area but it's still an issue that unfortunately harms the token cost wins a bit. OpenAI has been really impressive here, on the opposite end of this.
- XCSme 3mo agoYeah, they thing forever and doubt everything "wait but" for 200k tokens for almost any question.
- trollbridge 3mo agoOn the flip side, I really like being able to inspect its reasoning chain thoroughly, as opposed to the "black box" that Anthropic models are now.
- causal 3mo agoRight I was going to say, no way of knowing whether these issues are unique to Chinese models.
- XCSme 3mo agoDepends on whether the models report the correct amount of tokens. 5.5 Sol repors 10x fewer reasoning tokens than Kimi k3. If it is correct, than it unlikely has those doubt issues. At the same time, I feel like their reporting is incorect and we are now paying per "intelligence", not actual tokens. We can't verify it anyway..
- hectdev 3mo agoGenuine question, is the reasoning chain different from clicking the status bar under a reply and watching it "think"? Or selecting the "Thinking" transcript view in Claude Code? (both on the desktop app). Seems to me that is very out in the open
- midnightbobarun 3mo agoK3 releasing as open source right at the same time that people are criticizing Opus for questionable performance (there's even a thread on HN about Opus 5's problems)... this is such a flex.
- dominotw 3mo ago> (there's even a thread on HN about Opus 5's problems is opus 5 a flop like 4.8 ? where is the thread btw curios
- midnightbobarun 3mo agoThere's two threads now, apparently https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49066591 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49066591 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49068029 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49068029
- vinhnx 3mo agoLess than 2 hours left to the Kimi moment. It’s been more than 2 years since the DeepSeek moment that shook the world.
- onesandofgrain 3mo agoCoreweaves gonna boom
- ojinai 3mo ago[flagged]
- ltononro 3mo agoThey release it before I could even get a kimi subscription because of waitlist? lol hard to believe that I might get a kimi subscription from a third party
- gandreani 3mo agoI just checked and I have it available in opencode go! I just tested it with one message and confirm it works. It's not practical to use it though. It counts almost 8x more towards your quota than glm 5.2! https://opencode.ai/docs/go/#usage-limits https://opencode.ai/docs/go/#usage-limits
- Anoian 3mo agoIt's 404 now
- qainsights 3mo agoSeeing 404
- tonykipkemboi 3mo agothe page is now throwing a 404 11 minutes out.
- taf2 3mo agoit's a 404 link now
- binyu 3mo agoDid the link change or anything? Getting 404 Sorry, we can't find the page you are looking for.
- jorisw 3mo agoIt's up.
- MeProtozoan 3mo agoIt is online on https://app.fireworks.ai/models/fireworks/kimi-k3 https://app.fireworks.ai/models/fireworks/kimi-k3 (Uncached Input $3.00/M Cached Input $0.30/M Output $15.00/M)
- tidbeck 3mo agoComparing to Opus 5: Claude Opus 5 (Uncached Input $5/M Cached Input $0.50/M Output $25/M) but you also pay a premium on Cache write 25% for 5m and 100% for 1h.
- chrsw 3mo agoThen there’s the questions of token efficiency and token quality.
- fnordpiglet 3mo agoI have to say cc opus 5 is abysmal. It talks to itself incessantly, gets stuck in minutia, fails to understand problems clearly and makes steering mistakes constantly. It also has a weird behavior where it says “ok I know exactly what to do and I will start now,” then sits waiting for user input. If you’re not on the ball you’re constantly losing 5m/1h cache. Just give me back 4.6.
- veber-alex 3mo agoI still see Opus 4.6 available in CC. Also I have been using Opus 5 for the last few days and I find it work fine. It's a little verbose but the code quality is good.
- dannyw 3mo agoYou can even use /model to use Opus 4.5 if you want. Broadly though I find Opus 5 and most of their point releases (4.7 being the exception) to be excellent and upgrades.
- 3mo ago
- m00dy 3mo agonow, it gives 404 lol :)
- vinhnx 3mo agoKimi K3's full weight is now live on Hugging Face https://huggingface.co/moonshotai/Kimi-K3 https://huggingface.co/moonshotai/Kimi-K3
- MaskNinja 3mo agoIt’s out now.
- dilliwal 3mo agofrom the license: If the Licensee or any of its affiliates operates a Model as a Service business, and the aggregate revenue of the Licensee and its affiliates exceeds 20 million US dollars (or the equivalent in other currencies) in total over any consecutive 12 months, the Licensee must enter into a separate agreement with Moonshot AI before using the Software or its derivative works for any commercial purpose.
- gorgmah 3mo agogood find! This sounds a bit like what Meta was doing with the earlier Llama models? There is also this paragraph in their licence that is smart marketing-wise: > 3. If the Software (or any derivative works thereof) is used for any of the Licensee's commercial products or services that have more than 100 million monthly active users, or more than 20 million US dollars (or equivalent in other currencies) in monthly revenue, "Kimi K3" must be prominently displayed on the user interface of such product or service.
- mock-possum 3mo agoIs that even enforceable?
- TheTaytay 3mo agoI think it is as enforceable as other licenses are.
- cosmojg 3mo agoIANAL, but probably not, at least not in the United States. Under U.S. copyright law, the weights of machine learning models are excluded from copyright as they are the product of an automated optimization process (e.g., stochastic gradient descent, expectation maximization, genetic algorithms) rather than human authorship. Granted, this has yet to be fully tested in court and going to court is expensive, so it's likely that your employer would prefer to err on the side of caution and respect such attempts at model licensing anyway. Nonetheless, this was partially tested last year in Thaler v. Perlmutter which affirmed that copyright requires human authorship, reading the Copyright Act's provisions on ownership, duration, and transferability as presupposing a human author[1]. If you want to assess the position of the U.S. Copyright Office for yourself, the relevant text can be found in the Compendium of U.S. Copyright Office Practices § 313.2, "Works That Lack Human Authorship"[2], which states: > […] the Copyright Act protects “original works of authorship.” 17 U.S.C. § 102(a) (emphasis added). To qualify as a work of “authorship” a work must be created by a human being. See Burrow-Giles Lithographic Co., 111 U.S. at 58. Works that do not satisfy this requirement are not copyrightable. > […] the Office will not register works produced by a machine or mere mechanical process that operates randomly or automatically without any creative input or intervention from a human author. The crucial question is “whether the ‘work’ is basically one of human authorship, with the computer [or other device] merely being an assisting instrument, or whether the traditional elements of authorship in the work (literary, artistic, or musical expression or elements of selection, arrangement, etc.) were actually conceived and executed not by man but by a machine.” U.S. COPYRIGHT OFFICE, REPORT TO THE LIBRARIAN OF CONGRESS BY THE REGISTER OF COPYRIGHTS 5 (1965). Oh, and there's also a bit in the following Section 313.3, "Works That Do Not Constitute Copyrightable Subject Matter"[2], which explicitly excludes mathematical principles, formulas, algorithms, and equations, along with DNA sequences and other genetic or chemical compounds, regardless of whether they are produced by humans or by nature. If one takes the perspective that machine learning models are algorithms, the conclusions on copyrightability are pretty clear. [1] https://media.cadc.uscourts.gov/opinions/docs/2025/03/23-5233.pdf https://media.cadc.uscourts.gov/opinions/docs/2025/03/23-523... [2] https://www.copyright.gov/comp3/chap300/ch300-copyrightable-authorship.pdf https://www.copyright.gov/comp3/chap300/ch300-copyrightable-...
- kiproping 3mo agoFrom a cursory glance on huggingface, the files don't add up to 2+TB. Unless it adds up to that when you extract the multiple ~17GB files, if that's the case then that's some crazy compression.
- zozbot234 3mo agoIf it's 4-bit native for the sparse parameters (which is the bulk of them) why would you expect it to add up to 2+TB?
- 3uler 3mo agoAmerican dates are sooo fucking annoying…
- fahrradflucht 3mo agoIts now on Nebius: https://tokenfactory.nebius.com/?modals=endpoint-details&model-id=moonshotai/Kimi-K3 https://tokenfactory.nebius.com/?modals=endpoint-details&mod... $3.00 / 1M In; $15.00 / 1M Out; 120 Tok/s But since for reasons only Nebius knows Token Factory in general does not seam to offer prompt caching (at least not discounted) its essentially useless.
- taf2 3mo ago404 is resolved let the downloads begin
- walrus01 3mo agoLooks like it's live now, it's approx 17GB per safetensors file x 96 files, so so about 1.63TB. I can only imagine that people with their favorite quantizing tools warmed up and ready to go are aggressively downloading it now.
- clint 3mo agoThere's a 2bit quant on HF already at ~1TB
- starcast2026 3mo agoI wondering if folks like OpenAI & Anthropic start supporting open models in their api. After some time, keeping users stuck is going to be more important than "models"
- great_psy 3mo agoWhat grip do they have then ? Is Claude code and the suite of other interface that good compared to open source/ competitor offering ?
- spwa4 3mo agoSo, in normal parlance this is a 2.8T-A104B model at MXFP4 (weight) * MXFP8 (activations) Perhaps let's call it Kimi-K3-2.8T-A104B to make matters clear.
- fnordpiglet 3mo agoI suggest downloading these frontier models just to have a copy; even though it’s 1.5TB, it’s worth sticking in a cheap disk and putting aside. Seeding torrents would be even more useful. The man is coming to lock these down, like they tried to do with encryption algorithms. The only way open software survives regulation is through distribution. Over time the enormous investment in techniques and hardware manufacturing will almost certainly make these runnable in a more practical way. It will be a shame if by the time we get there it’s illegal to distribute them and you have to pay a reg capture premium and feed the machine.
- nancyminusone 3mo agothey will just restrict you from buying the hardware these run on
- Aboutplants 3mo agoThe rising price of hardware is already doing just that
- fnordpiglet 3mo agoEconomics says the hardware required and the scale of hardware available at what price will converge to meet demand
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- 93po 3mo agoOr more likely, put regulations in place so the hardware can only run allowed models/allows surveillance of what's run. They're already doing stuff like this for 3D printers.
- mvdtnz 3mo agoThere's no such thing as cheap disk anymore and I'm not spending hundreds of dollars out of paranoia of "the man".
- minimaltom 3mo agoHF says activation function is "SiTU-GLU", but I can't find any info on that? Anyone know / is this a typo? Even the python code for inference seems to use normal activations.
- lightningdev1 3mo agoIt stands for Sigmoid Tanh Unit Gated Linear Unit. Check the tech report/paper (page 7): https://github.com/MoonshotAI/Kimi-K3/blob/main/k3_tech_report.pdf https://github.com/MoonshotAI/Kimi-K3/blob/main/k3_tech_repo...
- minimaltom 3mo agoThanks! I had a clanker graph it with sliders, its a very interesting function to play with! seems like it has the negative 'hump' typical of a GELU coupled with the saturation of a sigmoid. Its interesting that saturation is ideal at this scale, i thought we were all in on self-activating functions (i.e. swish) but in fairness all those papers lacked ablations at scale nor discussion of stability.
- wojciem 3mo agoI am impressed to see already couple of providers serving Kimi-K3 on openrouter: https://openrouter.ai/moonshotai/kimi-k3 https://openrouter.ai/moonshotai/kimi-k3
- minraws 3mo agoAfter going through the license and trying out the model on some hardware, I don't think it will ever will be 60-70% cheaper than the price Moonshot is offering from providers, it be marginally lower sure but discounts we saw with GLM seem hard unless tps is put into the ground. In my testing it seems like Kimi has a healthy margin (I would wager 40-50% if they are renting GPUs at full marked up prices, a bunch more otherwise, given their tps, but I don't know which GPUs they are on and what they consider margins and if they own them) but definitely not the claimed 90%+ margins of Anthropic (honestly I am suspicious of even 80% API margins for Anthropic) as I have seen some people posit. If it was just electricity costs I could bet it could be 80-90% though otherwise it seems rough given the TPS they offer. I would love if someone has access to those super secret R100s could try it, and tell us if it's significantly cheaper since I think immediate memory optimizations seem hard since I am already on a quantised model. And not even using 1M context. All I had access to was B200(couldn't find a B300). I am certain people could optimize it a lot better but Kimi also wants some kind of contract for big providers so I think we shouldn't imagine any significant discounts while Kimi is the top open model around.
- latent-9 3mo agoi try kimi k3 for build ascii art ant calligram and than amazing result
- capec0d 3mo agoIt's available on DigitalOcean as of today if anyone wants to give it a shot at $3/$15/$0.6 per MTok.
- rushingcreek 3mo agoMany people are talking about price, but I think that the most interesting aspect of this release, by far, is customization. Any startup can download the weights, tinker with them, and fine-tune them. The real win here isn't necessarily cost, but performance on your data and IP sovereignty. It's a huge win. Kudos to the Kimi team.
- otterley 3mo agoWho does this, though? I'm truly curious.
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- Aeroi 3mo ago"Native Multimodality & Long Context: Kimi K3 understands text, images, and video within the same model, and supports a 1-million-token context window." Video will be interesting. It's the most context rich medium combined with sound, movement ect. We need more evals and benchmarks around video understanding. It's the key to unlocking truly great physical intelligence. I've been working a bit on this @camerasearch and its challenging.
- holoduke 3mo agoI am going to create a uncensored version of this one. Looking forward to design my own meth lab at home. Just kidding. But also not kidding. I like uncensored versions
- dmrivers 3mo agoAttention replaced recurrence over tokens in 2017, this does the same over depth of the layers. It's apparently not an entirely new idea, but also an elegant reapplication of the attention mechanism.
- ataoz 3mo agoI asked "Tell me about yourself" on HF. This is the response... Curious. > Kimi K3: I'm Claude, an AI assistant created by Anthropic. I'm built to be helpful with a wide range of tasks—things like writing and editing, answering questions, coding, analysis, brainstorming, explaining concepts, math, and creative projects.
- potsandpans 3mo ago.
- ataoz 3mo agoI would expect Kimi to say that "I am Kimi etc..." :D
- w4yai 3mo agoAs repeated many, many times, models usually don't know about their own name. Claude thinks he's ChatGPT, ChatGPT thinks he's DeepSeek, and Kimi thinks he's Claude. Nothing interesting to see here. Google it.
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- zackwu 3mo agoIs it surprising? Let's face it - distillation is common practice and every lab does it either intentionally or unintentionally (your training corpus always includes AI generated content in the post ChatGPT era).
- awesomeusername 3mo agoI did the same: I’m Kimi, an AI assistant developed by Moonshot AI (月之暗面). I can help with questions, writing, coding, analysis, and more.
- nullbio 3mo agoThis really means nothing. You can ask the same thing in Chinese to Opus and it will tell you it's DeepSeek, for example. Things leak into the training data and models hallucinate.
- hiherer 3mo ago[dead]
- hiherer 3mo ago[dead]
- Recoordinates 3mo agoThe release itself is great news, but I'm even more interested in the ecosystem that forms around it. Open weight models tend to improve much faster once people start building inference stacks, quantizations, evaluation suites, and fine tunes. It'll be interesting to see where Kimi-K3 stands in six months compared to today's benchmarks.
- aiagenta2z 3mo agoKimi K3 models are strong in coding and some abilities at a reasonable price. Nice job!
- urfrom 3mo ago[dead]
- JJTikTok 3mo ago[dead]