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Microsoft builds MacBook Pro rival with NVIDIA-powered Surface Laptop Ultra
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-laptop-ultra https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-lapt...
https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2026/05/31/introducing-surface-laptop-ultra-made-for-world-makers/ https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2026/05/31/introducing-sur...
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- whatever1 4mo agoNo price? I guess over 3k for 128GB ram and Nvidia spark.
- forthefuture 4mo agoIs it possible to be cheaper than the DGX Spark? Because that's $4,700. I would think Spark + Laptop would be necessarily more expensive.
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- mrheosuper 4mo agoI read somewhere, $4k for 64gb ram
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- sixothree 4mo agoThe current Surface Pro is >$3600 for 64 GB of RAM. This number sounds completely reasonable. One year ago this month I bought 128 GB of DDR5 RAM for $300. I can't help but feeling annoyed by the state of the market.
- KeplerBoy 4mo agoAlso RAM was still quite a bit cheaper when the DGX was announced back in early '25.
- ku1ik 4mo ago„Built on Windows”. That’s like anti-ad these days. Maybe, maybe worth looking at if you can run other OS than Windows on it, but that will probably take some time.
- EagnaIonat 4mo agoThe emphasis on the fans kicking off also had a bit of a turn-off.
- thewebguyd 4mo agoCan't believe they led with that in the promo video. They potentially have whats finally a competitor to an apple silicon MBP, and they lead with fans?? I love my macbooks precisely because they are silent (among other things, obviously).
- leonidasv 4mo agoWhen I clicked, I thought that it was going to smash the turbine blades from the animation to suggest something like "all the performance without the thermals," but nope, they just became laptop fans. And seconds later, it started blowing heat/steam out of them! That's the most uncanny marketing for an ARM laptop I've ever seen.
- bahmboo 4mo agoYes the MBP is very quiet when doing easy stuff but run games and heavy duty software and those fans are required to get work done.
- mort96 4mo agoThey are. But the experience of using a MacBook Pro for pretty much any purpose other than gaming is that they’re entirely silent. To the point that it’s an exceptional circumstance when a build job is so intense and so long running that fans kick in. As such, when you’re marketing your competing product, maybe don’t lead with the fans.
- lastdong 4mo agoSurface has seen so many iterations, some terrible, some nice. Still rocking the discontinued surface laptop studio as Wacom on the go, smallish footprint (14”) creative development machine. I just love its quirkiness and the fact that I can jump on photoshop to touch up an image, use it as tablet for movies, or vs code for (not great nowadays) 6h on battery. It is an odd intersection.
- t_mahmood 4mo agoAnd I have one that I use as thin client for my desktop, Linux made it usable! 10 year old surface pro 3, 8 to 9hr battery life, takes less than 20s to boot up to Gnome, no issues browsing on Firefox, it's a solid device on the go. And to my total surprise, it retained charge even after almost a month of no usage.
- lastdong 4mo agoThat is great battery life! I also wanted to try Linux, but I think I’ll lose the wacom feature. I also use it as a thin client for my Linux machines, and jointly with my Mac means I have access to all platforms.
- t_mahmood 4mo agoI believe Linux supports Wacom tablets pretty well, I have one which worked without any issues, and buttons can be fully customized. The pen broke though, so it's now collecting dust, and I'm not in situation to replace it. Unfortunately for Surface pro, some parts of the touch screen was damaged during battery replacement. But the parts that works, works well.
- dgellow 4mo agoMy surface book 2 has the best feeling keyboard I ever used on a laptop. And I still really like the overall unique form factor and 3:4 display with touch support. But it didn't age too well, the battery is giving up and the SSD is pretty slow. Plus windows being a real slug doesn't make the experience that great anymore
- jauntywundrkind 4mo agoI wonder what kind of brightness that 2000 nit screen will actually deliver? Everyone rates their screens on peak, but then SDR is the same 250-350 nit range for most systems. What's the actual connectivity? USB4? with or without PCIe tunneling? How many ports? How much is it going to weigh? Battery life? Battery capacity? DGX Spark desktops idle close to 20w on Linux: that's a lot for a laptop. I'm expecting Nvidia+Microsoft stepped up their driver game some for this release, but it's wild how few creature comforts or nicities DGX Spark came with. Launched with and still has almost no power monitoring or power management capabilities. If you turn on the highspeed NIC it turns into a 40W hotbox even at idle. Nvidia has such a weird mix of supporting what they want to support well, but doing absolutely nothing else. The way Shield TV is still occasionally getting some updates is impressive for example, but it's stayed on an ancient Android version & went a good fraction of a decade without update. Similarly, keeping folks locked on rickety old Linux4Tegra and now DGX Spark heavily modified Linux OSes has been brutal. It's hard to believe this system is going to be much better than a fantastically expensive bag of barely managed idiosyncratic quirks.
- throwaway_7678 4mo ago"The world is full of makers. Only a few make the world." What does this mean ? How can you make the world ?
- fragmede 4mo agoBe a creator instead of a consumer.
- throwaway_7678 4mo agoBut it implies it's not for ordinary makers. Only for the "world makers". "It belongs in the hands of world makers."
- KeplerBoy 4mo agoIt means nothing. The LLM thought it was edgy.
- LiamPowell 4mo agoLLMs are not yet capable of generating the level of marketing wankery seen here.
- dgellow 4mo agoWhat do you mean, that's pretty much everything LLMs generate "Nothing wasted. Everything intentional." That's the most ChatGPT line ever, where everything has to be a cringy punchline "A machine like this should not sit still. It should be pushed. Taken to the edge. Used to make real what others call impossible." I really hope no human would write something like that
- ghjseccx3305 4mo agoWindows…
- neals 4mo agoI've had about 4 generations of surface devices. Never again. The frustration of that SP4 where every bodies screen would jitter and they would just stoiclly send me a replacement with the same problem. Until warranty expired. Or every model after that just slowed down to a crawl after a year. Or the keyboard connection not working reliably. No thank you very much.
- readthenotes1 4mo agoI have only had three and they have been very good. Still using one as my daily driver. First one had a battery bulge and got a free replacement to the current version. I think that went from 2016 to 2017. That one actually lost a battery bank and I got another upgrade to the 2018 version. The keyboard died on that one for some reason and they just replaced it for free. I could understand if platform decay has occurred since 2018 though. But for a while, it was excellent.
- fragmede 4mo agoWhat's conspicuously absent, is the CPU that's going to power this thing. Yes, it's got an Nvidia GPU, but does it have an Intel CPU, an AMD CPU, an Nvidia ARM CPU, or someone else's ARM CPU?
- trympet 4mo agoMy understanding is that it’s got a bespoke 20 core Nvidia Vera CPU - unified RTX Vera Rubin Spark chip. Seems like Nvidia trying to copy Apple M-series chip
- int0x29 4mo agoIsn't it a mediatek CPU with an Nvidia GPU on the same package? At least thats what most of the reporting for nvidia laptop chips has been saying.
- TiredOfLife 4mo agoIt's the same chip that is in DGX Spark (it was delayed by 1-2 years). Blackwell GPU on one chiplet and Mediatek cpu with off the shelf cores
- taffydavid 4mo agoI could be wrong but I don't think there are any arm machines with nvidia GPU yet, I think that would be a first. So it's probably Intel
- fragmede 4mo agoNvidia's current flagship product is Nvidia GB200 NVL72, which is a super computer the size of however many racks you can afford, with 72 Blackwell CPUs and 36 Grace ARM CPUs to a rack. At the other end of the spectrum, is the Nvidia Jetson series, which is a GPU attached to an Nvidia Grace ARM CPU. Nevermind, it's totally this chip/board. https://www.techtimes.com/articles/317428/20260530/nvidia-arm-laptop-chip-n1x-confirmed-computex-cuda-rtx-5070-gpu-onboard.htm https://www.techtimes.com/articles/317428/20260530/nvidia-ar...
- bob1029 4mo agoThese machines are total garbage in my experience. > And with all-day battery life[ii] If they managed to get anywhere near Apple, they'd have confidently published some kind of actual hour figure without a scare citation.
- ramon156 4mo agoI sometimes wonder if the "Corporate VP" (whatever that means) believes his own jerk-off marketing
- officialchicken 4mo agoI have no doubt that huffing their own farts until euphoria hits is considered a critical skill.
- LiamPowell 4mo agoWhat's this nonsensical video on the product page that allegedly shows an "all new thermal system"? https://videos.ctfassets.net/jy9s7k22hbg4/44R1LH71xb8uO4c9dDzRWa/63f5e264a6817ef9dec8f3b4284f8a78/msft-r-scrolling-slide-silicon-cooling-desktop-fy26.mp4 https://videos.ctfassets.net/jy9s7k22hbg4/44R1LH71xb8uO4c9dD...
- taffydavid 4mo agoCould it be that new tech that passes air over the board without a fan? Was announced last year, I forget what it was called
- soggybread 4mo agoYou're likely thinking of a Piezo fan or solid state fan. It uses a thin membrane that vibrates and moves air though small spaces. Frore Systems had their Airjet Mini make the rounds in reviews and demos a couple years ago (2?).
- boobsbr 4mo agoDemo from 12 years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK2H7lKbtLk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK2H7lKbtLk
- steviee 4mo agoThis might actually be cool hardware! I'm just wondering why anyone would waste all the overhead for the Windows OS. There's probably only 48 Gigs of unified memory left when your log-on completes...
- po1nt 4mo agoThe biggest downside of this product is Windows
- ray_v 4mo agoThe second biggest is Microsoft's track record with hardware
- poisonborz 4mo agoWondering about Linux support. Would it take Asahi-level community commitment? For Windows, ~no one will switch from their macs for some (seemingly) single-year-generational gains. It would need some distinctive feature, not only performance. For me, the 2in1/tablet aspect was that, which they drop now.
- SXX 4mo agoAsahi is possible because Apple actively supported booting unsigned OS. Chances for Microsoft and Nvidia combo doing the same are questionable. Better look for other non-Microsoft laptops on the same platform.
- dgellow 4mo agoThat copy reeks of AI generated text... for a premium, luxury laptop. What a shame.
- taffydavid 4mo agoThey probably just don't have any humans left in marketing that can write original copy. They've all been fired or has their brains turned to mush from using copilot all day every day
- tracerbulletx 4mo agoOr their souls eviscerated by receiving nothing but criticism for any attempt to think or apply their creative passion.
- speedgoose 4mo agoI guess that if I have to ask for the price, it’s not for me.
- shlewis 4mo agoI will never buy a Surface device ever again. I've been using an SL4 for the last four years with Linux on it, thanks to the surface-linux kernel. It's awful. It feels like it's actively refusing to work properly with Linux. Fair - it's not for Linux, and clearly that is expected with a Microsoft device. I've recently had to call their support for missing rubber feet. I figured I could get the replacement mailed(that was how it went when it first happened about two years ago). An AI answered, did not understand what I was saying at all, hung up the call. I called again; it told me to check the website and hung up, not even giving me a chance to say anything. Okay. Guess I'll never buy anything from you ever. Ordered them off of Aliexpress and moved on.
- taffydavid 4mo agoWhen will these companies realize nobody wants to talk to an AI? The reason we begrudgingly pick up the phone is because some problem is not solvable through the website. The last thing we want at that point is an automated system parroting the website back to us, or telling us to go there ourselves
- mysterydip 4mo agoI guess if you see customer service as a checkbox you have to have, and also a cost center skimming from your bottom line, you will do whatever to make it as cheap and hostile as possible.
- j16sdiz 4mo agoThey don't care. Support call center is operation cost. They did they math and think this will save them more money than losing a few angry or disappointed customer.
- Night_Thastus 4mo agoAnd they're right. If terrible support were an obstacle even slightly, they'd have all gone out of business decades ago.
- 4mo ago
- einpoklum 4mo agoSurface Laptop Ultra Ripoff: Made for World(-Class) Suckers.
- liendolucas 4mo ago> Made for a kind of work that does not fit in a standard laptop. Yeah, sure... And that kind of work is...??? The only device I'm still happy to own from them is the Classic IntelliMouse. For me, anything else, be hardware or software, I stay very far away from them.
- trollbridge 4mo agoMicrosoft mice were always of exceptional quality... ... until the Surface era, when they either had bizarre designs that didn't work well (like Arc) or else were of cheap build quality and had problematic Bluetooth chipsets. The first Bluetooth mouse I got was Microsoft's circa 2002, which was an amazing piece of tech back then.
- ShinyLeftPad 4mo agoWhat happens if you vibe code an entire hardware product?
- pancsta 4mo ago[flagged]
- a_vanderbilt 4mo agoFor many, the appeal of a Mac is that it isn't running Windows. I'm not seeing how this won't be a repeat of the OG ARM Surface, just with a higher spec'd GPU.
- lnenad 4mo agoIt's not a valid comparison. Up until this (theoretical) machine, the playing field wasn't equal. Windows laptops in general couldn't really compare in many aspects with Macs since M1 (outside of gaming), batteries were horrible due to bad efficiency, performance wasn't amazing even with the best SKUs, and the distance between the vendor and Microsoft was always impacting different aspects of the finished product. Even with the ARM Surface, the ecosystem still wasn't ready for ARM, the performance was lacking. If this device doesn't cost an arm and a leg, it will offer something that is really the first instance of a Windows device that's a better choice than an M-Macbook in many ways (at least on paper).
- threetonesun 4mo agoBack when Macs were suffering under poor Intel chips there were valid competitors in battery life and size and weight from Dell. Except they ran Windows, and the trackpad was never as good as a Mac, and you'd find yourself searching for driver updates for things like the built in camera, which also wasn't very good because Dell doesn't have an entire division building amazing tiny cameras for phones. Microsoft maybe had a chance when they decided to build their own Surface tablets/laptops but trying to make an OS that worked for that but also worked for your corporate issue Lenovo laptops is (as Apple seems to know), impossible.
- lnenad 4mo agoI mean, yeah ok? Not sure what your point is? This isn't directly related to this machine though. First Nvidia SoC and a much better vertical integration with now non trivial amount of experience in hardware stands to offer something that wasn't avaliable before.
- bbg2401 4mo agoTFA has a few more tidbits than I've seen elsewhere but it's mostly LLM-induced, hype-driven marketing bilge. A slightly more sober announcement is available at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48352627 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48352627.
- neogodless 4mo ago"world makers", quite sober ;)
- Havoc 4mo agoUnusable website. Can’t get past the full screen consent dialog (iPhone)
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- haunter 4mo agoYou need an adblocker https://apps.apple.com/us/app/adguard-pro-safari-ad-blocker/id1126386264 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/adguard-pro-safari-ad-blocker/...
- Abhijith_MB 4mo agoHey, I'm the managing editor of the site. The issue has been fixed; it was due to how we tried to render local fonts on iPhone, which conflicted with the CMP (consent pop-up for privacy/cookie in the EU). Please try loading the site again and let me know if it works for you.
- NitpickLawyer 4mo agoIIUC this is using lower bandwidth RAM than macs, and will run windows, with uncertain linux support (it's spotty even on the dedicated linux boxes that this chip is based on). So less of a "rival" and more "metoobutworse"...
- skeeter2020 4mo agoMicrosoft has always made great hardware, often with partners or acquisitions. If they don't run (traditional) Windows - like the phones - they are really good; if they do run desktop Windows we've gone from useable-but-handicapped to completely unacceptable IMO. They also tend to be side projects within MS; I'd suspect this thing saw the light of day because it was sold as a way to pump more AI at their mostly captive audience.
- benoau 4mo agoApparently 300 GB/sec so basically on par with the M5 Pro but half the M5 Max. It'd be alright with Linux, probably better than a MBP if you're working heavily with AI (but no other reason to buy it TBH). https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/cpu-nvidia_n1x https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/cpu-nvidia_n1x
- SignalM 4mo agoOptimized for multi core.. like windows is out of the box for x86 and ARM already? What did they do manually set cores=20? Such optimal. Many Cores! This will be the third attempt at Windows on ARM.. hopefully this is the one
- basisword 4mo agoIt's not a rival. It could be the greatest computer ever made and I'm still not using Windows.
- noir_lord 4mo agoAt this point I don't know what the performance delta would need to be between "fastest I can get that lets me run linux" and "fastest I can get with windows" other than massive. I genuinely do not want to deal with windows that much. Fortunately since my computing needs are met by a fast x86/GPU I don't have to make that choice.
- geerlingguy 4mo agoIf it's still based on the chip in the DGX Spark, idle power draw remains a problem to be solved. My Spark pulls down 40W when doing nothing under Ubuntu.
- dogma1138 4mo agoIt might be more of a Linux problem than a chip problem…
- my123 4mo agoFor the DGX Spark and OEM variants a big issue is that the ConnectX-7 is just not designed to have low power idle but instead to be efficient when loaded. NVIDIA already lowered power draw at idle by 18W with a currently out of tree driver leveraging PCIe hotplug for the NIC earlier this year. I think that quite a bit more people bought those to use them without the ConnectX than what NVIDIA expected.
- dogma1138 4mo agoI’m pretty sure 400 gig nics aren’t in the cards for these thin and lights…
- baggachipz 4mo ago"Copilot, write me a drivel article which could have been a 3-line press release, but instead use every unnecessary superlative you can conjure. Ignore any possible criticism and pretend this device is the second coming of Computer Christ"
- transcriptase 4mo agoYeah I feel like I just read an advertisement someone adapted from marketing materials.
- Gigachad 4mo agoBecause that’s exactly what it is.
- swiftcoder 4mo agoI'm pretty happy to see someone else making a serious play in the ultra-premium notebook market. For way too long Apple has basically only been in competition with the much heavier "desktop replacement"/gaming laptops, or the flimsy/plasticky likes of Dell and LG with questionable trackpads. Real competition in this space could be a great thing for consumers
- Gigachad 4mo agoI’d wait for some actual reviews before celebrating. Because I just doubt this is as good as they are hyping. And it will still run the same windows ad ridden broken OS. With 128gb memory this thing is going to cost a fortune.
- sceptic123 4mo agoBut they pretty much just copied the MBP (and added USB-A)
- swiftcoder 4mo agoHeh, I mean, for the last few years, most PC manufacturers haven't been able to accomplish that much
- tencentshill 4mo agoThat's what the Surface was supposed to be. It's Microsoft's example design for the other OEMs to strive for.
- evolve2k 4mo agoWould love to see many more manufacturers read this as the slight taht it is from Microsoft and to follow Lenovos lead in making windows a paid add-on, going with a big Linux distro as the default. Maybe instead of hardware they should just stick to the knitting and deal with their quality issues around both the OS and the Office suite right now.
- oaiey 4mo agoThe whole forum here is bashing Windows for being thermal / performance disaster compared to apple products. I do not see how a laptop running Linux will evade the same fate (at least the bashing :).
- evolve2k 4mo agoIf it helps clarify, Apple have also let their OS quality go too. Years of under investment just shiny new veneer. Linux has continues to improve and in my opinion is ready to be “the free default” OS on PC’s and standard laptops.
- chainingsolid 4mo agoWhen I switched my desktop from Windows 10 -> Debian, I noticed the fans ran less (until video games). And I pretty much ran the same apps. 1/2 of the complaining is a lack of being able to choose/clean up that is running!
- rustcleaner 4mo agoOn Qubes OS my P16 has abysmal battery life, but that's OK! I own my system, it is more secure than the two main slap fighter camps ITT, and the battery is really only a 30-min UPS to me (I always plug in). I never understood thin underpowered craptop enjoyers and their smug eight hour battery life aura, like... just use a pen and paper notebook at that point!
- rowanG077 4mo agoToo bad linux x86 on arm story is still terrible. Fex is great in a sense but getting it run is a herculean feat, with pagesize mismatched requiring a VM.
- sceptic123 4mo agoMS page: https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/surface/devices/surface-laptop-ultra https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/surface/devices/surface-lapt...
- vrganj 4mo agoDoes it run Linux well? That's the only reason not to get a MBP. Personally, I got a HP Zbook G1A, which is HP's take on an MBP based on (x86, but unified memory!) Strix Halo. Battery life could be better, but pretty happy otherwise. Local LLM perf is great and I get to run an OS that doesn't drive me crazy.
- DennisP 4mo agoCUDA support is another reason, if you have a particular need for that.
- eigenspace 4mo agoI'm surprised they released this thing. Brand perception is probably a lot more important to Nvidia than whatever sales they could get from this thing, and if it's basically just DGX Spark, it's likely to underwhelm. I've heard there's still a large backlog of both software problems, and hardware problems with the platform. The software problems could be fixed with time, but they'll still give a shitty first impression. I'd have thought Nvidia would just bury this and try again with a successor run of silicon with a new design. This thing seems practically destined to just be a repeat of the Snapdragon laptop debacle.
- chrisvenum 4mo agoA lot of enterprise customers still buy windows workstations. When I worked in an IT dept, Dell XPS and Windows Surfaces were given to C levels who asked for Macs but were told they wouldn’t be supported into the windows ecosystem (exchange, office, Active Directory etc). Sadly after all these years the MDM story for macs is still trash.
- eigenspace 4mo agoJust because enterprise customers buy windows workstations, does not mean they'd be interested in buying these windows workstations.
- NordStreamYacht 4mo agoWill this help strengthen the ARM Linux ecosystem?
- ElectronCharge 4mo agoMost commenters here are focused on the Microsoft hardware, but the article mentions systems from several other manufacturers using the same hardware. Some of them, Dell and Lenovo in particular, have good Linux support. Nvidia has also supported Linux well in general, so let's hope there's an attractive Linux option soon! Personally I'd be just as happy with a small form factor desktop with the same hardware.
- commandersaki 4mo agoNvidia has also supported Linux well in general I don't really know, maybe in recent times. All I'm reminded of is Linus giving Nvidia the finger.
- raadore 4mo ago[dead]
- mzmzmzm 4mo agoMy first thought on seeing this was that it could be great for Linux. If the hardware is a little more standard than Apple's, it wouldn't need all the tricks Asahi has figure out. Finally you could have the best performance without compromising on fine details.
- commandersaki 4mo agoHonestly I was ready to mock this thing out of existence, but I think you're on to something as there is a contingent that wants the Macbook Pro style laptop to run Linux and I think they'd be happy to settle with a copycat. Alas, it is a laptop from Microsoft so hardware support in Linux is probably going to be painful as always. Hard to say whether you'll get the Macbook Pro experience though.
- thewebguyd 4mo agoThat's me. The PC OEMs have been woefully lacking ever since the M1 came out, and even prior to then. Still shipping crappy 1080p panels and garbage trackpads today. I just want the Macbook Pro experience, but Linux. Good, high rez, high quality and accurate display, nice trackpad, keyboard, nice speakers, quiet and cool. Apple's the only one making good laptops now and it sucks (I say as I type from my macbook). I tolerate macOS, I don't love it.
- madduci 4mo agoMy thought as well. As a Linux or BSD machine, this is a portable beast
- SXX 4mo agoNvidia is only slightly better than Apple when its come to providing hardware documentation. And their hardware is much more locked down. E.g it cant be reverse engineered as easy as Apple Silicone because Nvidia GPUs basically run own OS inside themself. So practically only Nvidia able to build open source drivers for this, but so far it looks like it will take them another decade with current rate.
- Rover222 4mo agoImagine thinking the rivalry is about hardware and not software... Same for IOS vs Android.
- thewebguyd 4mo agoI mean, it's both. PC OEM laptops have sucked for 6+ years that Apple silicon has been out. Apple makes the best laptops on the market. I'm glad the PC industry is hopefully waking up, finally. I'd like to see some good hardware with Linux support. That's all I've wanted, a macbook pro experience on Linux.
- Rover222 4mo agoyeah fair. in the end, more competition is great
- hbn 4mo agoThey can put whatever hardware they want in it, Windows knows know bounds in undermining the overall package. I don't want a faster processor to run user-hostile adware that's constantly trying to upsell me, and uses dark patterns to trick me into switching off my chosen alternatives to their bad products every time there's a minor update. I don't want to run it at all.
- xnx 4mo agoIt's a shame that, outside of garish "gaming" laptops, 17" screens are very rare.
- ChrisArchitect 4mo ago[dupe] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48352627 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48352627
- simonsarris 4mo agoI've had surface devices for a long time, originally for work to test HTML Canvas with the touchscreen. Unlike a lot of the other comments, I've had a nice time with them. The screens are a great quality, the keyboard especially in later versions is quite good. Drawing on them is nice. Battery life is middling, though.
- thewebguyd 4mo agoSame experience. I still have one of the Snaprdagon X1 Elite surface laptops for the few times i need a windows machine, it's nice. It's about the closest you'll get to a MacBook in Windows land. Also unlike the rest of HN, I don't have complete hatred of Windows. I wouldn't mind picking up one of these, but I'm almost certain the price is going to be somewhere between unaffordable and completely ridiculous.
- aykutseker 4mo ago[dead]
- dmitrygr 4mo ago> Built on Windows aaaaand... scene! No thank you, and goodbye
- RankingMember 4mo agoYeah what bizarro world is their marketing team living in where that's something to tout?
- olyjohn 4mo agoMost people who use this won't have a choice. It will be forced on them by employers.
- thewebguyd 4mo agoI don't think many employers (that still issue Windows laptops to people) are going to be dropping $4.5k+ for their users at scale. There's companies out there still handing out cheap 8GB Dells with 1080p screens.
- mizzao 4mo agoWhat is the CPU/GPU architecture of this and how could a collaboration between whoever made it and Nvidia possibly outperform Apple Silicon?
- trynumber9 4mo agoMediaTek designed X925 + A725 CPU. It's already been benchmarked in the GB10 products. It is not even close. Like 0.75x SPECint 2017 of the M5.
- steveBK123 4mo agoWho is the target market for this? As an Apple user who can’t make iPad OS work I am always tempted by the surface but.. Every time I contemplate the surface (I like the hardware / concept) it seems the software I might want to use doesn’t support arm..
- albertgoeswoof 4mo agoIt’s in the first line of the article. It’s for people that make the world, obviously
- bsimpson 4mo agoI remember when they first pivoted from multiperson multitouch tables to tablets. It sounded like a really cool device - even got me to walk into a Microsoft store. Then I realized that it used the same shitty Windows with the same shitty registry that I had mostly avoided for my whole life to that point. I certainly wasn't jumping in on that tablet.
- Analemma_ 4mo agoI mean, I used to be - with the disclaimer that I worked at Microsoft for a while (left in 2019), there was a hot minute when Surface devices were good and on an upward trajectory to become great. Microsoft was doing interesting things with new form factors and interface devices-- the Surface Book, Studio and Dial weren't all hits, but they were some of the only noteworthy experiments in PCs-- and they actually cared about build quality in a way pretty much no other PC manufacturer did. Then Panay left, Windows 11 has been a debacle, and Nadella seems to give zero fucks about anything which isn't Copilot or Azure, so the Surface momentum that they spent so much time building has just coasted to a complete stop. It's sad.
- WillAdams 4mo agoMoreover, the Surface Pro 1 and 2 used Wacom EMR styluses --- still regret not getting one, but then Samsung did the Galaxy Book 12 (which was about perfect), so I was _finally_ able to replace my Fujitsu Stylistic ST-4110 (the Toshiba Encore 2 Write was a necessary stop-gap). These days I use a Samsung Galaxy Book 3 Pro 360 (w/ a spare which I panick bought when I wasn't sure if they would do a Book 4 --- now they're up to a 5), Kindle Scribe Colorsoft, Samsung Galaxy Note 10+, and have a Wacom One on my MacBook (both of which need upgrading....)
- blueboo 4mo agoCool …but never buy v1 hardware folks! Especially for limited runs like high end laptops. Apple quality comes from scale. A narrow product line means they have literally hundreds or thousands times more testing than PC ultra books. (And still — don’t buy a first iteration of a new Apple chassis.)
- tastyfreeze 4mo agoThat is the opposite of my rule for game consoles. Always buy v1. It is most likely to have unfixable hardware exploits allowing for homebrew use later in its life.
- quitspamming 4mo agoA former employer of mine, owned by a retired NFL player, purchased Surface devices for the sales staff in addition to their laptops. This was presumably because Microsoft and the NFL had a deal where everyone on the sidelines were using Surfaces and they thought it was a good idea. I say that because no one was asking for them, and when we received them I was inundated with tickets about poor performance: "my surface is slow", "my surface is glitchy". I dreaded working on these things. Everyone just went back to their laptops. Tens of thousands of dollars wasted. It's a shame, Microsoft could really do something if they created an ARM device that had the battery life of Apple Silicon, yet was a real computer that wasn't locked down, ensured/promoted ARM compatibility with their ecosystem. Heck, I'd even be OK with Windows 11, I know how to remove all the garbage now and could run WSL (though I'd prefer to just boot Linux on it).
- dpark 4mo ago> an ARM device that had the battery life of Apple Silicon, yet was a real computer that wasn't locked down, ensured/promoted ARM compatibility with their ecosystem Isn’t that what this is? (Or is supposed to be?)
- quitspamming 4mo ago> (Or is supposed to be?) I would be happy to eat my words "later this year" (per their timeline) but past Surface interactions lead me to believe it will be more of the same as in the past. Bad performance, bad battery life, bad build quality, bad compatibility. For the sake of competition and options, I really hope to be proven wrong... I just wouldn't bet on it.
- bigyabai 4mo agoSounds like you aren't familiar with Nvidia's dedication to low-power ARM SOCs. Ever heard of the Nintendo Switch before? The Tegra inside that is a 15w TDP gaming SOC. And it supports CUDA (somehow).
- 4mo ago
- tastyfreeze 4mo agoVery disappointed that MS didn't stick with the watchband hinge. My wife's 10 year old Surface Book has had toddlers stand on it and the thing still works like new.
- sleepybrett 4mo agowhy are they showing off the fans? how hot does this thing run?
- SXX 4mo agoThey say GPU performance of mobile 5070 RTX and that GPU alone is 50W. Obviously it only hot under load.
- RankingMember 4mo agoMy experience with Surfaces and, particularly, the Surface Book and its accompanying dock were such that I'd have to be paid to use one again. For example, the dock would get its own updates silently and brick itself randomly and the proprietary magnetic connector between the dock and the computer was prone to a poor connection. I remember many occasions trying to work and my screens just randomly blinking in and out. To get service we'd have to go to a local Microsoft Store, a sad replica of the aging Apple "shiny glass minimalism" aesthetic, which have since all closed so we'd have to mail the thing today instead.
- dboreham 4mo agoI've used surfaces of various kinds for more than 10 years. Overall they've been significantly less troublesome than the laptops from other major brands I've had over the same period. I put this down to the dogfood eating nature of the Surface. Whoever is responsible for the sound interface driver in a Dell laptop is unlikely to be a user of that laptop and even less likely to have the capability to get Dell to ship a fixed version. Microsoft however I suspect uses Surfacen extensively in house. In this respect it makes the Surface products more akin to Apple computers. The same is probably true for high end Chromebooks. I never used a dock, fwiw.
- RankingMember 4mo ago> Whoever is responsible for the sound interface driver in a Dell laptop is unlikely to be a user of that laptop and even less likely to have the capability to get Dell to ship a fixed version Oh boy, don't get me started on Dell haha. Sure, they've got a better service model (people come to you), but at least in my experience they contract with service people who service multiple brands who can't help but shit-talk Dell. Not very confidence inspiring, particularly when the cause of the issue ends up being a connector not being fully plugged in from the factory.
- szundi 4mo ago[dead]
- aniceperson 4mo agoSo... nvidia agreed to pull a qualcom... well, enjoy the failure. people that would be early adopters want a real operation system that would actually allow them to leverage the hw, not a pathetic web-ui-based vibe coded operation system that requires wsl to make anything useful.
- gchamonlive 4mo agoI had the Surface 3 and it was a good product, really good for note taking in college, quite revolutionary I'd say, to use the same device for the notes and for MATLAB and the likes. It was terrible in terms of maintenance but I think they fixed it in later iterations. The surface 3 had a glued screen that would crack 99 out of 100 times and there was no other way to access components in it. It survived for about 10 years which I think is fair. Shame that such an interesting product is developed by a completely untrustworthy company.
- frankfrank13 4mo agoOh thank god it has a co-pilot button
- atlanta90210 4mo agoI have had the 15" Surface Laptop 6 as my daily driver and love it. Very reliable. The new one has a lot more ports so I am happy to see that.
- pseudosavant 4mo agoAs awesome as this laptop could be, it is going to be $5000+ right? The DGX Spark, which has no display, touchpad, webcam, etc, is $4700.
- rnxrx 4mo agoThey implied it might have options with < 128G of memory. That could significantly reduce the price of components. There's also the very real possibility that the whole venture is being subsidized by Microsoft - or even NVIDIA itself - as a bid to get into a different space. Even with that, though, I doubt it will be cheap.
- alkonaut 4mo agoIt would be a steal at $5k tbh, with todays RAM prices.
- iaaan 4mo agoI get that they're pushing AI really hard, but the article bearing so many of the hallmarks of being AI-generated almost feels crass, like there are no humans at the company who feel strongly enough about this device to author 5-6 enthusiastic paragraphs about its features, they had to outsource to something that can somewhat convincingly mimic enthusiasm. Yet I'm supposed to care...
- chis 4mo agoIt's also shockingly twitter-nerd-coded. "The cure for token anxiety", it advertises. To be honest it's hard to see why anyone would buy this product so maybe they decided to take a wild swing with the marketing. The only use is people who really, really, want to run models locally vs getting a much cheaper and higher performance result from a cloud host.
- illiac786 4mo agoHigher performance, I agree, but cheaper? I didn’t check how much this costs, but if you use AI locally a lot, it’s going to be amortised pretty quickly. Burning 100$ a month on tokens has become insanely easy. I remember when it was unimaginable for me…
- chis 4mo agoSpeculation is it’ll cost at least $6k for 128GB
- girvo 4mo agoYou top out at 20 tokens per second on hardware with memory bandwidth this low for any local model actually worth using. Doing the maths, it’s not financially worth it. Only worth it for privacy and control reasons. I do love my GB10 Asus Spark-like though still!
- illiac786 4mo agoI don’t understand your calculation, can you elaborate? At 25USD/Mtk output, assuming your 20tk/s, I generated/saved (minus power costs) ~15k$ in a year. Granted, it won’t run 24/7, but over a couple of years, this is definitely cheaper.
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- mawadev 4mo agoI'm starting to have a sour taste in my mouth whenever I read microsoft and nvidia
- adamtaylor_13 4mo agoThe biggest problem here is the operating system. If they could fix that, this might be enticing.
- didibus 4mo agoIf they put Linux on it I'd buy it, but with Windows 11, no thanks.
- cowmix 4mo agoI bought the Snapdragon Elite X over a year ago based on the promises of Qualcomm to bring solid Linux drivers at some point. Fast forward to today, Linux for that SoC is still a hot mess.
- IshKebab 4mo agoYeah never buy based on future promises.
- mft_ 4mo agoMaybe I'm being overly hopeful, but given the DGX Spark only runs Linux, and this is apparently a sibling in a laptop form factor, maybe it won't be too difficult to get Linux up and running effectively? Probably (a lot) more easily than Asahi on Apple Silicon, anyway.
- gaboot 4mo agoI'm sure someone can get the CPU/GPU running but things like wifi/bluetooth/USB ports will be rough since they will presumably integrated with the chip in a non-standardized ARM way. Almost all of the ARM laptops are basically unusable with GNU/Linux.
- fragmede 4mo agoWhich ones have you tried? Right now I'm on an MediaTek Kompanio Ultra 910.and wifi/USB/sleep/hibernate works. DT is going to be the death of ARM, but the real challenge has been to get the GPU to work under Firefox.
- cesarvarela 4mo ago> It’s well known that the Surface trackpads are among the best in the industry, surpassing even MacBooks in several aspects What aspects are these?
- thewebguyd 4mo agosolid glass haptic trackpad instead of a clicky, mechanical piece of junk one?
- dcrazy 4mo agoThe only MacBook sold with a mechanical trackpad in the past eight years is the MacBook Neo.
- thewebguyd 4mo agoRight, I meant most PC OEMs are still shipping janky mechanical trackpads in all but the highest end models.
- lpcvoid 4mo ago[dead]
- darkstarsys 4mo agoI'm on my third Surface Pro (an 11 this time) and basically love it. Tablet form factor, lightweight, multitouch, with a real desktop OS (I mean not ipad's iOS). Decent battery life. True, it's not perfect: slow to wake, the touchpad stops working once in a while & needs to be reset. Missing a GPS chip. But it runs Adobe, Resolve, Chrome of course, msys2, and Linux (WSL2) quite well. I love the absolutely gorgeous HiDPI screen. The software emulator system is a little weird (arm64/arm64EC/arm64X, with no true universal x64/arm64 binary) for software developers, but it basically works fine from a user perspective. I say all this as someone whose daily driver is an Arm M1 Macbook Pro, also nice but not a tablet and quite heavier. I don't use a dock, just a simple USBC hub with a magnetic USBC connector.
- f6v 4mo ago> slow to wake, the touchpad stops working once in a while & needs to be reset I was eyeing SP for several generations and could never commit to it just because of issue like that. I want a fast device that's 100% reliable. SP felt sluggish whenever I picked it up in a store.
- stalfosknight 4mo agoPCs still have USB-A ports? USB-A is old enough to drink.
- anigbrowl 4mo agoA Spark-like machine in a laptop form factor is certainly exciting and interesting competition for Apple. I wonder about Linux compatibility, given NVidia's history with proprietary drives. I am absolutely not willing to go back to Windows, though.
- altern8 4mo agoI don't know if it's on purpose, but I've seen a few images and videos and I can't figure out what the laptop looks like. Why are all the pictures so dark? You can't see it!
- zitterbewegung 4mo agoI bet it will be something like a MacBook Pro but with a windows logo. I wouldn’t expect much different considering the other surfaces look practically the same including the keyboard . Not that that is a bad thing .
- altern8 4mo agoThe keyboard is pretty much the only thing you can see, and I see that they're still doing that horrible arrow layout.
- whh 4mo agoCar manufacturers did this but it was usually when the car was going to be a bit of a minger.
- darkteflon 4mo ago100%. Viz, Ferrari Luce: https://www.ferrari.com/en-EN/auto/ferrari-luce https://www.ferrari.com/en-EN/auto/ferrari-luce
- altern8 4mo agoIronically, "luce" means light in Italian
- chuckadams 4mo agoLucifer is the prince of darkness after all…
- 4mo ago
- whh 4mo agoToo bad it runs Windows.
- blu3h4t 4mo agoWho knows maybe it runs Microsoft’s version of aluminium os or something :D
- gamblor956 4mo agoSurfaces are great devices. My Pro 3 still gets 7 hours of battery life. We use newer Surface laptops at work, even the artists, developers, and executives (note we are not a tech company). The laptops aren't very fast but they can take a lot of physical abuse and the batteries last all day. We don't need the top of the line, and forcing our developers to use lower powered computers actually improves the quality of the apps because they get to experience how our apps work for most of our customers and take performance into account from the beginning.
- BoredPositron 4mo agoI had the original surface and later a surface book from my employer. Both devices were horrible the digitizer for pen input was horrific. The software support was on a standstill for 6 months at a time with minimal updates later on. I won't touch first gen Microsoft hardware anymore except maybe their mice.
- varispeed 4mo agoYou would have to pay me to get one and I would still not use it. There is something about Microsoft's reverse Midas touch.
- 4rt 4mo agoi've only ever owned a 'Surface Laptop 2' and for the time it was excellent, the keyboard and trackpad were both superior to my macbook pro of the time, the screen was great in both brightness and the 3:2 ratio. it was great value. from all the comments on here it seems like that model was an anomaly and the rest of the product lineup is often pretty lacking.
- LastTrain 4mo agoI used a surface book II for years all the while hoping it would die. It didn’t, which says something I guess. What sucked: the hinge, the split battery, mysterious problems with screen detach, the magnetic power connector, glossy screen. What didn’t: screen ratio.
- denysvitali 4mo agoThe Surface line is, HW-wise, very good IMHO. Too bad the software is awful. Thankfully the Linux Surface community is pretty strong. Proprietary Microsoft drivers don't make it easy, but we're getting there... https://github.com/linux-surface/surface-pro-x https://github.com/linux-surface/surface-pro-x I'll buy another one if there's some commitment from Microsoft to be more open source friendly, but since this will never happen, they can keep their HW.
- jwrallie 4mo agoDepending on how easy it is to run Linux on this as opposed to the new MacBooks may make this attractive for Linux users. Anyway, the whole trend to change from x86 to Arm on laptops is bad news for compatibility. It might be that the era where you can download an iso and expect Linux to run on a random laptop is over, and Linux users will have to stick to only a couple of devices with well known support. Did Valve release a laptop yet?
- daemin 4mo agoOne concern I've heard about the move to ARM cores is that it is done in order to lock down the devices more so they're more like a phone rather than a computer.
- jo-m 4mo agoWhat does locking down the device have to do with the CPU architecture?
- coffe2mug 4mo agoARM based devices don't have boot anything you want like x86 platform - in practice.
- chainingsolid 4mo agoAdding to this. x86 Most random Linuix ISOs will boot on anything. I've seen software compiled before the hardware had finished being designed boot just fine. (in the latest case lstopo was very confused, but everything still worked!) ARM, I go looking for a build for my chip/device in particular. x86 I just buy hardware and it works, ARM I check for OS builds before buying, and wonder if the builds will continue to get updates.....
- mandeepj 4mo agoWhatever they all do, they can never, ever match the quality of Apple! I've bought many Macs so far, and many Windows machines (Dell, Sony, 1st and 2nd Gen of Surface) as well. All of those Windows machines died within less than 2 years, while the Macs, which were bought more than 10 years ago, are still working fine. So, I'm not going to buy a new Windows machine anytime soon.
- 866-RON-0-FEZ 4mo ago> Whatever they all do, they can never, ever match the quality of Apple! It's a pretty low bar to meet. Every Mac I've owned has had a hardware failure. Keyboard (x3). Dead trackpad. Display backlight. Logic board. LCD failure. Multiple drive failures. One Apple TV that shit the bed. Many within warranty, some not. Apple's warranty service is pretty good, but to gloat about "quality"... it's more like when Sonny Corleone throws money at the guy's feet after he smashes his camera.
- drnick1 4mo agoYou must be treating your hardware extremely poorly because all the Windows laptops that have used have lasted many years and were retired before they stopped working due to a hardware defect. In every case however, Linux replaced Windows after the first boot.
- LeoPanthera 4mo agoThe primary reason to buy Macs isn't the hardware, it's macOS.
- sixothree 4mo agoI'm sure people want this to be true. But it's simply not true. People are learning to accept MacOS to use the hardware. People are buying the Neo because it's cheap. People are buying the Air because it's better hardware than similarly priced computers. Worse than all of that, long-time Mac users are abandoning the OS.
- chuckadams 4mo agoWhen the other choice is Windows, then for sure. I’m a loyal Apple user, and I don’t hate macOS, but it’s definitely not the main draw for me.
- reval 4mo agoDoes the unified memory work in WSL2?
- ChuckMcM 4mo agoI know it feels snarky but I didn't ever expect to read that Microsoft was pairing with MediaTek to make an ARM cpu to run Windows. So many years of the WinTel hegemony I guess :-). I've had several Surface devices over the years, the original SurfaceBook, and a Surface Pro 4 and Surface Pro 6. The Pro 4 was the most reliable and the Pro 6 was prone to overheat. But execution in the mechanical build was quite good. That said the battery in my SurfaceBook went all Spicy Pillow on me, the Pro 4's power slot ended up dying, and the Pro 6 just stopped responding one day (it was a work laptop so I just gave it back but still). I'm still waiting to see how folks with Macbooks experience the end of life. If MediaTek would partner with Framework to make a motherboard I'd totally try it out :-).
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- whycome 4mo agoI don’t trust Microsoft after how they abandoned the Surface Book
- nelox 4mo agoIt is not too far fetched to see NVIDIA acquiring Microsoft for the vertically integrated advantages Apple enjoys. [edit:typo]
- cutler 4mo agoMacbook Pro rival running ..... Windows?! I'd take a bottom of the line Macbook over anything running 'doze.
- neonstatic 4mo agoIf it runs Windows then it's dead on arrival.
- hirvi74 4mo ago> Microsoft explicitly tuned Windows 11 to extract the absolute best performance from the new silicon architecture. My lie detector is going off. > The containment features sandbox local agents like Hermes and OpenClaw so they cannot interfere with your core operating system. Wait, isn't that kind of the point of using local agents like OpenClaw? I thought people wanted the agents accessing all kinds of applications, files, etc.? > Legacy application compatibility is equally crucial. Microsoft optimized the Prism emulation layer specifically for the new microarchitecture. Prism utilizes the raw power of the silicon and recent AVX and AVX2 instruction set extensions to run older x86 applications smoothly under emulation. Okay, this is pretty nice. I'll give Microsoft credit for this one. It might save my company a lot of heartache one day in the near future. All in all, this rig is going to be quite expensive. In a lot of ways, it probably is better than a MacBook Pro. However, as a diehard Apple fanboy, it is not enough for me to consider the jump.
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- xyst 4mo agoIf it doesn’t have the repairability of a framework. I’m out.
- scosman 4mo agoThe image on the Nvidia announcement tells the story: 6 identical laptops from various manufacturers running the same SoC. The Microsoft one is just one of many. https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/products/rtx-spark/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/products/rtx-spark/
- cenal 4mo agoThis is the story of being a tech giant where you can't stop running a creepy digital surveillance business model that depends on expensive but poor performing hardware vendors so you partner with an ungodly expensive hardware vendor that can perform well but doesn't solve the underlying problem of being a creepy digital surveillance business that snoops on your customers and sells ads to show them. Friends don't let friends or family they care about use Windows 11.
- zx8080 4mo agoYou know what, MS? Go to hell with the architecture and CPU vendor-lock. We need and want an open, modular architecture, and currently it's not ARM, it's x86/64. Because I can't go buy CPU retail and replace it at home. Edit: oh cool, CPU is MediaTek. No-no, I would stay as far as possible from it. Thank you, but no, thanks.
- setgree 4mo ago> Hardware of that caliber requires a highly optimized operating system to function properly. But unfortunately, you get Windows
- MBCook 4mo agoProminent dual fans? Hell no. Who would think that’s a good idea? One of the absolutely best things about the MacBook Pro is that it’s silent when you’re not really pushing it. It’s incredibly rare for me to hear them on my M4 Pro. Normal work, including compiling, using docker, my IDE, etc. almost never does it unless I do something big over and over and over. I’m not sure I’ve ever heard a single sound out of my M3 Air. I think it has a fan. I know my M1 didn’t. Make the coolest computer you want. If noise is a prominent feature I will never go within 10 feet of it.
- locusofself 4mo agoThe M3 air has no fan either, which is a big reason I bought it, as I record acoustic music and having no fan is the best.
- MBCook 4mo agoDidn’t they add one to one of the errors? Maybe the M4? Now looking online they didn’t. Or M5. Well I got SOMETHING confused I just don’t know what. Thank you.
- coalstartprob 4mo ago[dead]
- andreygrehov 4mo agoMicrosoft doesn't get it. People don't buy MacBooks because they're powerful. People buy MacBooks because they love macOS.
- jolt42 4mo agoEh, I like MacBooks because they've been bulletproof. Any PC I suspect it might just go kaput whenever it feels like it, except for maybe a ThinkPad, but they cost more than a MacBook.
- alkonaut 4mo agoPeople buy Windows Laptops because they need to run windows. But everyone saw the M1 and realized that local AI basically made integrated memory the future. People can't choose between "A computer that is good at local AI" and "A computer that runs the OS that I need". This is the answer to that. I _must_ run Windows, and I _want_ to have a computer with integrated memory.
- 76SlashDolphin 4mo agoAgree to disagree. I am enthusiastically waiting for Asahi to sort out its display and power management issues, after which I am instantly switching. I'd even take Win 11 over the dumpster fire that is MacOS Tahoe and I am not the only one who uses is begrudgingly amongst my colleagues.
- nipperkinfeet 4mo agoI don't buy MacBooks because I hate macOS. Horrible window management and software support.
- victor22 4mo agoToo late, even the MacBook Pros are mostly pointless now. I switched from a M2 Pro with 24gb ram to the new 8gb Neo and I kid you not, they perform just the same 99.5% of the time.
- alkonaut 4mo agoEither your model needs 20+GB or it doesn't. This whole hardware race is about local AI, little else.
- modelhub 4mo ago[flagged]
- rllearneratwork 4mo agoyou actually can run 120B (see Nemotron-3-Super) model in NVFP4 on DGXSpark, so I'd imagine it'll run here as well
- johng 4mo agoHere's a forum dedicated to the new Surface Laptop Ultra as well: https://www.surfaceforums.net/forums/microsoft-surface-laptop-ultra-forum.107/ https://www.surfaceforums.net/forums/microsoft-surface-lapto...
- sandreas 4mo agoWhile I somehow like the fact that Microsoft is trying to compete, their problem stays the same: There are too many people involved. - Nvidia - Mediatek - Microsoft - Windows team - Surface team - Marketing team - ... The main advantage of Apple is and will be, that they control the hardware AND the software / firmware completely and can make devices that feel completely cohesive. That's the reason Framework has an advantage over all these Ad driven companies. They are working together with the Linux / Kernel developers to make their products fit - however it is still lacking the completely cohesive nature of the product, because they still loosely depend on Intel / AMD and other Hardware manufacturers. An example: Every Apple device with a headphone jack since 2013 (probably long before) including iPods, iPhones and MacBooks has that little proprietary chip with ultrasonic chirp authentication integrated to control playback and volume by the EarPods headphone remote. Now there is a USB-C to 3.5mm Adapter as well as USB-C EarPods that still support this... No Windows Laptop has ever had this. The funny thing is, that Linux now supports these USB-C Apple thingies because they register as input and output devices and that the Apple 3.5mm Adapters now also support other brands headphones with Android.
- xnzakg 4mo ago> ultrasonic chirp authentication Source? Can't find any good source on this.
- sandreas 4mo agohttps://tinymicros.com/wiki/Apple_iPod_Remote_Protocol https://tinymicros.com/wiki/Apple_iPod_Remote_Protocol My guess is, that Apple did not invent this to prevent others from implementing it or have something proprietary, but just because the iPod Shuffle used the same connector for Headphones and USB (see page 8 in [1]), so they somehow had to ensure, what type of cable is connected to prevent damage to the iPod. Another interesting fact: The iPod classic 2009 does support some of the features (play/pause, next, previous), but lacks support for fast forward and rewind (click + hold, 2 clicks + hold). 1: https://cdsassets.apple.com/live/6GJYWVAV/user/locale/de-de/ma928_ipod_shuffle_3rdgen_ug.pdf https://cdsassets.apple.com/live/6GJYWVAV/user/locale/de-de/...
- 4mo ago
- z3ratul163071 4mo agoat a time when they are speculating with 1TB of ram for the new macs, they release new hardware with max 128GB addressable ram. crazy. strix halo was released more than a year ago.
- dainiusse 4mo agodoa
- rewgs 4mo agoPerhaps this will end up being the mythical MacBook-like hardware that I can install Linux on (Asahi notwithstanding).
- elxr 4mo agoThe expertbook ultra, zephyrus g14 and various lenovo yogas are already that. They all have nicer screens and significantly better keyboard feel too.
- truekonrads 4mo agoSurface devices last 6 months in tropical climate like Singapore and then something breaks.
- pmontra 4mo agoEvery time I read something like "completely redefines professional computing" I think that somebody in the marketing department didn't do a good enough job to disguise a sponsored content, or at the very least didn't review what the independent author wrote. Anyway, what I like of this machine is the 15" screen with a keyboard without a numberpad: the center of the body of the user can be aligned with the center of the screen. The screen seems to be particularly bright, which is good. There are claims of good self repairability, we will see when it starts to sell. I'd wait a few years before buying one machine in this product line. I want to see how Windows on ARM will play out in terms of compatibility. My build targets are all Intel servers (Linux), so I don't want to have surprises. I would have to wait years anyway because I would run Linux and I think that it takes more effort to port Linux to new ARM hardware that to new Intel one (ACPI etc.) WSL is not an option because I still have Windows around it and it's even more unpleasant than having to deal a Mac GUI. Let's say that if this were an Intel laptop I'd be tempted to buy it, if the hands on reviews will be good.
- fodkodrasz 4mo agoI'm curious about the openness of the platform. As long as the openness and standardization of the PC platform is not present, this platform is not a contender of x86 in my eyes. We can see with the highly praised Apple M platform on the example of the Asahi Linux what the lack of openness brings: people are locked in to operating systems by the vendors, and planned obsolescence, even with long support periods. On the other hand the PCs abandoned by Windows 11 support (sometimes even 1 year old models!) had the freedom to choose from a variety of operating systems, all thanks to the openness of the PC platform. Repairability is important, but why repair something when you can only use terrible, soon out of support operating, which spy on you? (This means practically any OS vendored by large corporations) For ARM systems openness boils down to the custom boot process, and of course the driver support. Has ARM PC vendors standardized on a boot standard yet? I cal recall the horror on reading articles how Raspberry Pi boot was working, or how M1 Mac bootloader is locked down.
- thisislife2 4mo agoYes, with 128GB RAM, I guess one could even ignore that it is soldered (and hence "unrepairable"), but if it can't run Linux or *BSD it is a definite no go. We definitely don't need two closed hardware platform duopoly (Apple and Microsoft), as together they will dominate and kill the "open" platforms. But I am pessimistic here as everything seems headed towards that eventuality. We should never have accepted smartphones as closed platforms.
- VerifiedReports 4mo agoWindows is such offensive trash now that it doesn't matter what you run it on. NO WAY.
- timpera 4mo ago"Offensive trash" is a bit much, most organizations use it without too many issues. I think it's pretty good!
- m-schuetz 4mo agoI prefer windows over others because I'm used to it, but "offensive trash" is pretty fitting with the direction they're going. Windows has been severily enshittified in the past few years. I remember the windows search bar used to work nicely, but nowadays it just shoves Bing into your face on the smallest of typos. My expectation on a search bar like this is that it gracefully handles minor typos or missing letters (like vscode does), but windows search is incentivized by forcing Bing onto you, so they stopped doing a proper search.
- nipperkinfeet 4mo agoThey are fixing all that with Windows K2 update.
- delusional 4mo agoThis thing is going to cost north of $15k possibly even $30k.
- sourcecodeplz 4mo agoNah, $5k
- DeathArrow 4mo agoThey brag about the Nvidia superchip: >The custom NVIDIA superchip challenges both Qualcomm and Apple But it seems NVIDIA didn't have enough in house know how and they needed MediaTek to develop the chip. >20-core NVIDIA Grace CPU (Arm architecture, co-developed with MediaTek)
- adrian_b 4mo agoThe only reason for someone to buy any of the laptops with this chip is the NVIDIA GPU. The CPU is decent, but it does not have any advantage over much cheaper and also faster x86 CPUs. Similar NVIDIA GPUs can be obtained in laptops with discrete NVIDIA GPUs, but there the GPU has access only to a very small memory. If you really want an NVIDIA GPU with up to 128 GB DRAM, and you are willing to pay a lot to fulfill this wish, then such a laptop can be a solution for you. The successor of Strix Halo has been announced recently. The CPU is the same as before, just a little faster, but it is significantly faster than this NVIDIA/Mediatek CPU. What has changed is that it supports up to 192 GB of memory, 50% more than these NVIDIA computers. However, the GPU of AMD is much smaller, with 2560 FP32 execution units, while this NVIDIA GPU will be available with up to 6144 FP32 execution units, but presumably at a much higher price than the AMD systems.
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- rbanffy 4mo ago> NVIDIA already commands a legendary reputation for graphics drivers “Legendary”, not a “great”, or “good” one. Certainly not “excellent” or “spotless” but, definitely, legendary. Who writes these pieces?
- rbanffy 4mo agoOne of the key features of the MacBook is a rock-solid Unix operating system. Windows ain’t one, therefore this might, at best, be a nice, thin, fast, Windows ARM computer with a lot of RAM. If you want a Windows computer, this might be it. Otherwise, there are better options: x86, which will not be as fast or light, but can easily run Linux, or a Mac, which is light, fast, and runs Unix.
- PunchyHamster 4mo agoThis will be nowhere near MSRP to Macbook Pro,and you won't be able to buy it for less than 2x MSRP for a while, just because people will buy those to put into rack to do local LLM
- gotstad 4mo agoIf Microsoft was really ambitious about building a product truly competing to the Macbook Pro, they would need to ship it with a radically different version of Windows. Microsoft cannot just throw upgraded hardware after the Surface, and expect it to compete with the Macbook Pro. The Macbook Pro is not primarily popular due to Apple Silicon, but the combination of a focused user experience (although, Liquid Glass was a significant step-down) and high-end hardware.
- anshumankmr 4mo ago> the answer to Macbook Pro > runs Windows 11
- RagnarD 4mo agoIt feels hard to be excited by a DGX Spark stuffed into a laptop. It's still slow RAM (much slower than a Mac) and arbitrarily limited to 128GB. Can't they at least offer a higher end model with faster RAM and more of it? Sure it would cost a bundle, but there are still people who'd buy it for the local AI capability.
- arka2147483647 4mo agoI wonder if this is just a way to recycle the chips that did not bin good enough to used for DGX Spark?
- cs02rm0 4mo agoI don't know about anyone else, but I don't use a Macbook because of some marginal gain in the hardware.
- hirako2000 4mo agoThe deal breaker is, can only run Windows.
- pistoriusp 4mo agoSeen this a few dozen times before, they're just not capable.
- Alifatisk 4mo agoThis sounds very exciting to me, however, the fact that it is a Windows laptop makes me sigh a bit. Why? Because they often seem to lack the fundamental experience that MacBooks have nailed. I have tried many touchpads, but nothing comes close to MacBooks. The tracking feels incredibly precise and consistent. The same goes for the speakers. It is surprising that no other laptop manufacturer has matched the sound quality Apple delivers. That is frustrating, because I genuinely want that same experience on a different system. I do not want to feel locked into MacBooks. I know the Youtube channel Dave2D did a video on this experience as well [1][2]. Another issue is how Windows laptops degrade over time. No matter how many I have tried, they eventually end up in a state where the fans spin up for no clear reason, the battery drains quickly, and I start getting notifications about low disk space even though I have not installed much. When I check the “Uninstall or remove apps” section, it does not clearly show what is actually taking up space. I often have to use tools like WinDirStat to discover leftover files from applications I already removed. These remnants build up and contribute to the system feeling bloated. I also start noticing small but frustrating delays, like the lag between pressing the Windows key and the Start menu appearing. BUT I do have an idea though, Nvidia will hopefully support Linux kernel, so if I have the opportunity to switch to one of these new machines, I might just swap out Windows with a Linux distro instead. Linux Mint perhaps. I am open for suggestions on good distros, specifically for daily use as home computer for both office use and browsing the web, maybe even play indie-games. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkYB931iUjc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkYB931iUjc 2. https://youtu.be/h26FlWu7aDc?si=FN8FG9EY0eMJ67fU&t=313 https://youtu.be/h26FlWu7aDc?si=FN8FG9EY0eMJ67fU&t=313
- 21asdffdsa12 4mo agoMicrosoft has one long building. In the north wing, they build to last, hardware, kernel, software (.NET) - the problem is, in the south-wing, they built to embrace, extend and enshittify. Can microsoft north build performance faster, then the south can enshittify. Place your bets ladies and mentalgen.
- nottorp 4mo agoSeriously? Will it be as silent as a MacBook Pro? Will you be able to throw it into a backpack without shutting it down? At a quick glance it sounds like they're competing on specs and obviously missing everything else.
- hollerith 4mo agoAlso, Windows is probably significantly less secure than MacOS and Apple definitely has the best hardware security in the industry.
- agentbc9000 4mo ago[flagged]
- HarHarVeryFunny 4mo agoThis is obviously intended for running local AI, but the memory bandwidth of 300 GB/sec seems a limiting factor, since this is what limits single user LLM inference tokens/sec. For comparison the M2 Ultra does up to 800 GB/sec, thanks to having a 1024-bit bus vs the RTX Spark's 256-bit bus.
- m-schuetz 4mo agoWhere did you find the 300GB/s? That's indeed disappointing if true.
- HarHarVeryFunny 4mo agoFrom here: https://www.techpowerup.com/349554/nvidia-announces-rtx-spark-a-supercomputer-grade-processor-for-windows-pcs-with-agentic-user-interfaces https://www.techpowerup.com/349554/nvidia-announces-rtx-spar...
- rbanffy 4mo agoLooking into the Apple counterpart, an M5 Max with 128GB of RAM and 2TB of flash, it comes at around EUR 6K here in Ireland, probably in the $5K range in the US. I am assuming Microsoft will charge a similar premium for it, because this is not a machine that'll help with vendor lock-in for them - it helps mostly Nvidia, so Microsoft and other OEMs will likely get the chips with lower margins. It's also a way for Nvidia to protect itself (a bit) from the impending doom at the AI datacenter sector.
- economistbob 4mo agoThe Neo success is heavily about Microsoft grabbing all the data and syncing everything to their servers and using dark patterns. The macbook neo is antiWindows not anti PC. The new Dell is nice, but it runs Windows so all that data grabbing dark pattern privacy ruining crap is under the hood. Mac Neo is the anti KGB device in a svelte shell. It is a long term strategic play and nothing running Windows will compete against it because Windows is the cancer. Windows PCs will continue their decline unless Microsoft gives up its privatized KGB aspirations. Active Directory will not carry them forever once enough of the younger generation use Mac for data possession and privacy, meaning all their bits including passwords are not dark pattern snarfed by the OS. Windows is horrific. Mac Neo is to Windows what Keanu Neo was to the Matrix. It does't even matter how much better PC hardware could be at the same price point since the Windows is basically a conduit to storing all your data and private info on Microsoft's computer instead of yours. Microsoft is even driving that dark pattern crap into the professional space and automatically grabbing passwords etc. via Edge. They are committing long slow seppuku and do not realize it because Office 365 is letting them bilk enterprise customers, but the IT world knows that dark pattern crap portends a change in vendor eventually. You can't even stop edge from syncing enterprise admin credentials on the latest versions. It is like getting violated by Microsoft every day where they beat you and take your password book if you are enteprise admin. Microsoft has gone to the dark side so far they are broom handling their enterprise admin customers with dark pattern credential grabs and no way to know where the data sits. Bring on the Neos and an alternative to AD. Windows 11 and their new direction of hovering, copying and moving all data is such a betrayal of ethical system administration from when they were young. It will take a decade, but Neo is here now. It has begun.
- j_w 4mo ago> Rated for all day battery life So vibes battery life. I'm going to assume it's like most Windows laptops and somehow only lasts 3 hours.
- nipperkinfeet 4mo agoHave you used a Windows ARM device within the last four years? The battery life is amazing!
- j_w 4mo agoSo give real numbers, not "all day battery life." What does "all day" even mean? It's marketing slop. All work day? All waking hours day? All 24 hour day day? An Apple release gives you a number of hours and they tell you roughly how they measured it. This just says "trust me it's good." This isn't to praise Apple, it's just the bare minimum.
- dmje 4mo agoEverything's absolutely fine until you see it runs Windoze
- randusername 4mo agoI found this video [0] recently by Casey Muratori that really helped me understand why Windows is the way that it is. It's about Conway's law in software development and software architecture, but he explains it with anecdotes about Windows, like how vendor communication challenges lead to 4 different volume sliders. I would pass on an expensive heavy-partnership Windows device. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IUj1EZwpJY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IUj1EZwpJY
- decide1000 4mo agoAs a Nvidia Spark owner I can confirm that Linux is much more performant then Windows on that chip. If the goal is "doing stuff with AI" Windows is the last OS you want to look at.
- pkhodiyar 4mo agois this based on ARM? or x64
- lofaszvanitt 4mo agoMicrosoft is the guarantee that it will fail.
- Tangokat 4mo agoCould LLM based AI lead to people moving away from Windows? I think UI will increasingly become less important as people switch to voice commands. Just tell your AI what you want to do instead of trying to navigate Windows. Could LLM based AI prefer Linux since it's more customizable?
- bfrog 4mo agoIsn’t this effectively a mediocre MediaTek SoC glued with an over priced GPU with an OS that’s barely usable and I guess the ask is $5k? What a deal!
- underlines 4mo ago[dead]
- ExoticPearTree 4mo agoCall me a hater, but the problem is Windows, not necessarily the hardware. I get it they want to stop the MacBook Pro, but: Windows is slow for no reason; it collects everything it can about the user; takes screenshots of whatever the user is doing; has ads - even though you pay for the OS; drivers are still a mess; hardware is made by different companies and no actual proper integration like Apple does. I could go on, but like someone here said: you have to pay me a hefty sum to use a Windows portable device ever again.
- Npovview 4mo agoSimilarly on the higher end, I want to run linux on Apple Macbook laptops.
- ExoticPearTree 4mo agoIsn't there Asahi Linux that boots on Apple Silicon? Never tried it, but people here on HN mention it from time to time.
- nbf_1995 4mo agoThere is but it lags behind the latest apple hardware. Asahi only supports M1, M2, and alpha support for M3. Not that I blame them for the lag, there's a lot of reversing work because apple doesn't document this stuff.
- rafaelmn 4mo agoLeave the drivers/power management to the optimized OS and do your work in VM ?
- fsflover 4mo agoThis will not save you from things like this: macOS unable to open any non-Apple application (twitter.com/lapcatsoftware) 2603 points by mattsolle on Nov 12, 2020 | 1292 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25074959 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25074959
- shantnutiwari 4mo agoThat sounds great! Does it run Linux?
- mv4 4mo agoIntel has already tried this (CPU+GPU+NPU) in partnership with Asus [1]. Big announcement at CES back in January. Not seeing much traction. Let's see how this one is received. [1] https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ai-pc/overview.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ai-pc/overview.html
- atraac 4mo agoI've used one of the flagship Surface Books two jobs ago, really beefy, could run Cyberpunk(don't ask how I know). Insanely bad machine, the overall finish was terrible, hinges broke often, charging port broke often(like every 3rd-4th person in the office), it overheated with basic office work, fans went rocket level loud when compiling basic things, after a while it was stuttering even with casual use. Had a really good Dell XPS at home too that was dying when compiling big Typescript codebase. I bought an MBP M3Pro 1.5y ago and I could never go back. It's insane how far ahead Apple is when it comes to performance. Noone seems to grasp that until they actually try to work on M-series. Three of my ex colleagues also switched to Macbooks after I told them, they also are never coming back.
- airstrike 4mo agoYeah, I think I'd rather die than go back to the current iteration of Windows for dev work.
- dataflow 4mo agoI guess it makes sense this is for power users, only amateurs use Page Up/Home/etc. buttons.
- dev_l1x_be 4mo agoAgain?
- uberduper 4mo agoGimme an rtx spark in the new framework 13 pro.
- drob518 4mo agoGame on, I’d say.
- alsetmusic 4mo agoWow, this is exciting to me as a Mac user. 2000 nits to Apple's 1600. 262 pixels per inch to Apple's 254. Mini LED vs Apple's XDR (I genuinely don't know enough about display tech to intelligently asses here, but I expect Mini LED to be superior; please correct me if I'm wrong). Unified memory up to 128GB (same). I was excited about the ARM laptops that came out a couple of years ago because there were a lot of promises about them moving the industry forward. In the end, I think they were mostly nothing all that special. This, however, really appears to rock the boat. I want Apple to have to compete. I want the best Mac I can get and this laptop will challenge Apple to work harder. This is good for everyone.
- singingtoday 4mo agoAfter Windows 11 I'm done with Microsoft.
- davidmurphy 4mo agoThing is: I want macOS, not Windows.
- iluvcommunism 4mo ago[dead]
- gigatexal 4mo agoIt’ll cost more than the equivalent MacBook Pro. It’ll be slower too. Rumor shows it beating an M5 by 56% but losing to an m5 pro. It’s a good first start though. Competition is good. It’ll force my platform of choice — Apple — to keep competing.
- rustcleaner 4mo agoNo Qubes OS? No sale! Simple as. crossedarms.jpg
- skystatic 4mo agoNot really appealing after bill gates on epsteins Island not to use or share or upload anything to microsoft again
- welzel 4mo agoCompare the UX of any Macbook with the most cutting edge “overpowered” Windows Machine and you get the same shitty experience we have since forever: The UI is sometimes laggy, buggy and simply sucks. Fresh installation of Windows 11 on a 2026 high-end machine: you open a File Explorer for local SSD and there is a delay in the UI. Oh, and of course, the UI is more ad invested then a cheap p0rn page from russia. WTF Microsoft?