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Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment
- matonseca 5mo ago[flagged]
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- JumpCrisscross 5mo agoBanks in Spain, Italy and Portugal are joining what this article describes as France’s Wero system [1]. («L'initiative française Wero».) Focus this year is on P2P transfers. Commerce is targeted for 2027. Given EuroPA has done a token amount of transactions to date, I’m not sure anyone should hold their breaths. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wero_(payment) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wero_(payment)
- toomuchtodo 5mo agoWero – Digital payment wallet, made in Europe - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47038965 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47038965 - February 2026 (132 comments) Europe's Banks Launch Wero Payments to Dislodge Visa, Mastercard - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41666833 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41666833 - September 2024 (88 comments) Unofficial Wero Adoption Tracker - https://www.werotracker.eu/ https://www.werotracker.eu/
- BadBadJellyBean 5mo agoI wish Wero was a real alternative but it seem to be a thin wrapper around Bank APIs and SEPA instant transactions. It has pretty much non of the functionality that PayPal or other services give. It just makes it easier to send money with a phone number instead of an IBAN. My bank doesn't even support it.
- rbanffy 5mo ago> My bank doesn't even support it. It's not like it's that difficult to implement. Most Brazilian banks implemented a similar protocol in months.
- BadBadJellyBean 5mo agoTell that to my bank. I am a software developer. I could probably do it. But I don't work there.
- upcoming-sesame 4mo agostill waiting for my bank to implement TOTP 2FA or passkeys instead of their home grown "memorize 7 digits number and we will ask you 4 random positions"
- KeplerBoy 5mo agoIsn't that much better than PayPal? Why would i want my money to end up in some intermediate PayPal account?
- BadBadJellyBean 5mo agoPayPal isn't without flaws but I think buyer protections and the obfuscation of the banking info are genuine features for people. I would like a real competitor to PayPal in Europe. Maybe even something that is not from a private company. What I fear is that people will try Wero, see that it's not what they wanted and then never go back. But maybe I'm wrong.
- piva00 5mo agoIsn't a wrapper making the ergonomics better valuable enough? In Sweden we have Swish for domestic transfers, if I could use Swish (or if Wero took it over) the same way to transfer money to my friends living in other EU countries I'd be very, very happy. What kind of functionality PayPal offers that is much better? Using cards instead of direct debit?
- timpera 5mo agoWero is not French, but it has replaced France's Paylib. It's pretty awesome and seems to quickly have replaced all other apps (Lydia, PayPal) for small payments in my friend and family circles. I'm excited to see it expand to PoS payments.
- DalasNoin 5mo agoCan you confirm people in france actually use wero? I had heard of it every so often but basically zero people actually use it, my revolut app has a feature to use wero but never used it. I mean would be great, getting rid of CC fees could literally lower grocery prices by 1-2%.
- timpera 5mo agoI can only speak from my experience, but yes, multiple people (a few friends, people at work, and my uncle) have suggested to "make [me] a Wero" lately to pay me back small amounts. The fact that's it's integrated into the existing banking apps helps.
- outout14 5mo ago[dead]
- pjerem 5mo agoI use it for basically every payment with friends. The greatest force of Wero is that, being from a bank consortium and not "another app", you can send money to people that don't even know the system exists as long as you have their phone number because the money will go straight to the bank account registered with this phone number. You don't need to register to the service to receive money so basically anyone holding an account in a compatible bank can receive funds instantly. Which means, as the person sending the money, you don't have to tell your friends to install it.
- thibaut_barrere 5mo agoEvery single friend to friend transfer around me is done via wero these days. And between business SEPA more and more.
- bouk 5mo agoiDeal is an enormous success in the Netherlands so if banks implement it as well in other countries then it will definitely be competitive with credit cards for online payments
- timpera 5mo agoiDeal is in the process of being replaced by Wero, which is pretty cool!
- DonHopkins 5mo agoWero sounds weirdo, but iDeal sounds like a confession you sell drugs.
- spockz 5mo agoWero is the pan-European successor to ideal. Other countries had something similar. We are now converging on using the same technique and mechanism everywhere. It also takes a bite out of payment providers like adyen because they managed the different payment methods for shops. In the future you only need to use Wero.
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- mytailorisrich 5mo agoWhat's the benefit of this over contactless payments?
- mcv 5mo agoIt works over the internet.
- mytailorisrich 5mo agoHow does it work when you need to pay for something in person? (what contactless is for)
- trashb 5mo agoYou use your bank card or contact less payment from your bank app. Optionally you scan or get send a payment request, and pay through Wero.
- mcv 5mo agoThat's what you use contactless for. Different systems have different purposes. Although people have also been known to use Tikkie or other payment request systems for in-person payments. Backed by iDeal, or now Wero.
- lxgr 5mo agoQR codes for now, unfortunately.
- jeroenhd 5mo agoIn some countries there is a payment system that works by generating QR codes at checkout and scanning those with your phone. I don't know if Wero intends to also support those, but it could make for a direct integration into live checkout. I think the Digital Euro initiative is closer to replacing contactless payments than Wero is, but it'll depend on the country I think.
- mcv 5mo ago
- microtonal 5mo agoEhm. Wero is partially based on the Dutch iDEAL system, which has been hugely successful. Pretty much all purchases from Dutch webshops are paid through iDEAL as well as many P2P payments. It's also supported by international payment services (iirc Stripe and Shopify). If they manage to replicate it in other European countries, Werk will be huge. Moreover, it's supported by many banks.
- pimterry 5mo ago> Given EuroPA has done a token amount of transactions to date, I’m not sure anyone should hold their breaths. The Spanish equivalent (Bizum) is merging into Wero is not a token use case, it's absolutely massive here. The absolute standard for peer-to-peer payments, more than 30 million users (>65% of the population), and they already launched contactless terminals for in-person commercial payments this month (https://euroweeklynews.com/2026/04/03/bizum-goes-contactless-from-may-youll-be-able-to-pay-in-shops-across-spain/ https://euroweeklynews.com/2026/04/03/bizum-goes-contactless...).
- JorgeGT 5mo agoIndeed Bizum is almost default now here in Spain, and for instance the equivalent in Sweden, Swish, is also almost default there. Went trekking into a national park, and the rangers will leave a number to Swish a bit of money if you want to use the fire pits; no other payment means.
- DanielHB 5mo agoI wouldn't say Swish is the default in Sweden because it doesn't support contactless payments. It is widely available though but many, many places only accept card/contactless payments. Of course, Swish is the default for person-to-person transfers, but not for payments. Opposite is also true, some lower-value places (like fruitstands, street vendors) don't accept card/contactless because they don't want to pay visa mastercard fee. I have no numbers but I would guess at least 50% of non-cash transactions are still card/contactless. I wouldn't be surprised if this number is 90%.
- bborud 5mo agohttps://www.swish.nu/faq/private/how-do-i-pay-by-tapping-the-phone https://www.swish.nu/faq/private/how-do-i-pay-by-tapping-the...
- upcoming-sesame 4mo agosame for MBWay in Portugal
- gsky 5mo agoI'm pretty sure American gov won't react kindly
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- WJW 5mo agoAmerica: You need to be more self sufficient and not lean on us so much! Europe: <launches European payment initiative> America: NOT LIKE THAT!!!
- dgellow 5mo agoJust to add a little bit more context, European interbanking initiatives are older than Trump insanity. What we are seeing at play is a slow decades-old strategy finally bearing fruits. Though Trump is for sure a factor pushing for adoption.
- drstewart 5mo ago>America: NOT LIKE THAT!!! Can you post a source supporting this?
- AndrewDucker 5mo agoThe USA is upset about Brazil providing Pix, their local equivalent. https://restofworld.org/2025/pix-brazil-us-investigation-digital-payments/ https://restofworld.org/2025/pix-brazil-us-investigation-dig...
- weberer 5mo agoWhat a ridiculous strawman. A huge chunk of Americans are also calling for the end of the Visa/MasterCard duopoly and would love to jump on board to this.
- rbanffy 5mo agoI'm pretty sure European governments know that and are prepared to deal with the temper tantrum.
- nwatson 5mo agoEquivalent PIX is very popular in Brazil for instant payments.
- coredev_ 5mo agoThe market for these kind of apps in Europe is very divided (just in the Nordics you have Swish, MobilePay and Vipps) but the dent in MC/Visas dominance is significant today. In 2 years, Klarna, Swish and Vipps will be more common both in e-commerce and POS that MC/Visa. Do we need a pan-EU standard? I'm actually not so sure, but yes it would be nice when traveling.
- reddalo 5mo agoToo bad that, for Italy, BancomatPay joined instead of Satispay, an app that's actually used (especially in the North). Almost nobody uses BancomatPay.
- epolanski 5mo agoSatispay is no longer really used anymore. It was only welcomed by merchants in the 0-fee era, now no merchant cares anymore as Satispay is no longer free of charge and pulled the rug. And to send payments across friends there's instant bank wires (often free of charge), and even when it's not instant it is executed in few hours-one working day max which isn't a big issue when you're transferring money across friends.
- reddalo 5mo ago> And to send payments across friends there's instant bank wires That's nice (when it's free), but banking apps are clunky, unfriendly, heavy and slow. Unicredit and Intesa, two main Italian banks, both have apps that are atrocious to use and riddled with annoyances. People want an easy and quick way to send/receive money (Satispay does that almost well). And for some banks Wero seems like it's going to be available through your existing bank app. Which is a no-go for me.
- epolanski 5mo ago> That's nice (when it's free), but banking apps are clunky, unfriendly, heavy and slow. They are all fine for a simple wire transfer. I do have Intesa myself cause I've got mortgage through them and sending a wire transfer is both simple and fast. So is on our other accounts: BBVA (Italian), mBank (Polish), Credem (Italian), Mediobanca (IT) and XTB and Revolut (both PL and IT). I think you're really describing a 10 year old non-issue.
- reddalo 5mo agoI use both Unicredit and Intesa almost daily and they're both dreadful. And their "home banking" websites are even worse. Useless notifications, pop-ups everywhere, they even stuff ads in between my account balance list. They don't follow iOS nor Android guidelines at all. They're slow and clunky. Compare them to either Satispay or PayPal. They also have their own problems, but at least their apps are quick and easy to use. I've never used Revolut, but I'm pretty sure that's also super good.
- petcat 5mo ago> A Frenchman using Wero will be able to transfer money to a Spanish friend on Bizum, with the same simplicity as a domestic payment. Have you seen the new money app? It's on Tubu. It's on Weeno. I'm on Dippy but my friend is on Poob. Poob has it for you.
- fontain 5mo agoI’m 50. All startup news looks like this: “Payments via Zoosha? K-smog and Batboy launch new startup.”
- echelon 5mo agoIt's better than that trend of taking English words and removing the final vowels before "r" or some other consonant.
- nemomarx 5mo agoI'm not actually sure Wubi and Tubu are better than something like Cashr tbh
- HoldOnAMinute 5mo agoObliteratr
- mattkevan 5mo agoObltrtr
- jawilson2 5mo agoOr adding "-ly" at the end. "Just use Cashly!" "Download Crditly"
- abustamam 5mo agoIt's bonkers to me that Box and Square are two totally different companies in two totally different industries
- HelloUsername 5mo agoSource was posted back in February: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46861789 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46861789
- wink 5mo agoTotally misleading. Without reading all of it: MAYBE it means: it is/will be enabled for 130m people. And even those of us who have activated it, have hardly used it for the most part, or hve concerns.
- bsimpson 5mo agoIt was weird to see them bragging about €6MM volume in the first year.
- madspindel 5mo agoThat number must be wrong? Swish volume during one month was €4759MM as comparison.
- jeroenhd 5mo agoI can't imagine that 6 million number is the total volume. Given that each participating country already had existing payment systems, perhaps that number is just international payments?
- bsimpson 5mo ago> The EuroPA alliance, which has already connected Spain, Portugal, Italy, and Andorra since March 2025, serves as a prototype. Six million euros have passed through it in one year, without any particular promotional campaign.
- thibaut_barrere 5mo agoThe use is very high (daily) in my social circles these days. No more IBAN sharing. Non tech are on it. YMMV
- pbmonster 5mo agoNo, it's already 130M (out of the ~450M in the EU). Wero's predecessor (iDeal, Bizum, Paylib, Giropay) systems are already widely adapted in their countries of origin and will be fully compatible with it, and Wero itself has had a bit of time to pick up new users on its own by now.
- calmebob 5mo ago[dead]
- spockz 5mo agoPretty much was already available via SEPA. We had a similar system in the Netherlands called ideal which has now been subsumed by Wero to join an European alternative. In the end the idea is simple. All participating bank accounts have lorum/nostrum accounts for the pairs. Whenever the Wero transaction succeeds the money is wired internally directly. I’m not sure whether this mechanism will be replaced by SEPA direct debit entirely.
- paduc 4mo agoI believe Wero is based on SEPA instant transfers. It just facilitates transfers by using emails, phone numbers or QR codes instead of IBANs.
- epolanski 5mo agoAs political instability has shown, it is a bad idea to have all your payments go through a single, weaponizable, failure point in New York. Europe needs to be functionally as independent as possible.
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- hiroto_lemon 5mo agoWero rides on SEPA SCT Inst, already mandatory EU-wide. P2P will land fast; merchant displacement is hard because card interchange funds the chargeback layer SEPA doesn't replicate.
- stldev 5mo agoTant mieux pour eux. I suppose some added sovereignty is to be expected when your closest ally extorts, threatens annexation and slams you with tariffs.
- slau 5mo agoMaybe the original source that the current article links to is a better link: https://epicompany.eu/media-insights/bancomat-bizum-epi-sibs-and-vipps-mobilepay-sign-mou-to-accelerate-the-rollout-of-sovereign-pan-european-payment-solutions https://epicompany.eu/media-insights/bancomat-bizum-epi-sibs...
- trumbitta2 5mo agoSpoiler: Europeans use whatever their banks provide.
- jeroenhd 5mo agoThat's the thing, European banks provide Wero, or a system that integrates with Wero. Or Swish, but integration between the two is inevitable in the future. This whole "new" ecosystem is just gluing together existing national digital payment solutions so it can be used internationally.
- Staross 5mo agoIt's already on my bank app since a couple of week, but I haven't tried it yet.
- mcv 5mo agoWero is basically an EU-wide version of the Dutch iDeal system, which in my opinion is the gold standard of how internet payment should work. I shouldn't have to fill in any card numbers on the site of the merchant (which is unsafe). Instead, the payment should redirect me to my bank, where I authorize the payment through my own bank's security system. I've always been annoyed by the need to type in sensitive card info on all sorts of merchant sites. I hope that with EU-wide use, Wero will receive much broader support now.
- throw1234567891 5mo agoThat’s how giro payments work. Same for Klarna.
- jim180 5mo agoas it was the case in Baltic states since forever. Payments with CC came much later.
- ramon156 5mo agoI think any dutchie can vouch that iDeal has been amazing. I would also like to add that Wise has been amazing for american payments. I needed it for Anthropic at the time, and this worked good enough
- DonHopkins 5mo agoCertainly better and easier to say than Chipknip!
- jeroenhd 5mo agoFunnily enough, the ECB's Digital Euro initiative has a lot in common with the chipknip, except you can now also charge your wallet with larger amounts of money.
- DonHopkins 5mo agoChipknip has the mouth feel of Gnip Gnop. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX2bqI--c-k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX2bqI--c-k
- Shalomboy 5mo agoI'm legitimately curious how these American payment companies held onto their worldwide dominance for so long. I'm used to seeing the sign at restaurants of all the other cards they accept, but for so long I've only ever seen Amex, Discover, Visa, and Mastercard in folks' hands.
- Keyframe 5mo agogeopolitics, dollar, and then network effect. in that order.
- lxgr 5mo agoWhat bearing does the dollar have on any of this exactly?
- Keyframe 5mo agoWhat do you mean? How it cannot? In Europe's context, 60's and 70's, was a collection of fractured dozens of small countries each with its own currency. US had a single currency which was also world's reserve currency so every major bank on this planet already had to build technical and legal pipelines to handle global trade. On top of that you had US omnipresence in post WW2 Europe and world for that matter. American payment networks were the fastest and obvious place to build payment networks across all those borders which was then also a footing ground into intra-market payments. As I said - geopolitics, dollar, network effect in that order. Can't have one without the other.
- lxgr 5mo agoBanks can settle with Visa and Mastercard in their currency of choice, so I don't see why the dollar matters for any of that. And regarding Visa and Mastercard being US payment networks: This is now undoubtedly the case, but for much of their history, their EU subsidiaries were actually independent cooperatives owned by large European network member banks. They only sold their respective stakes to the US parent organizations in the late 90s, back when European banks, in a pretty severe blunder, considered cards a thing of the past of no importance for the future.
- baalimago 5mo agoGood! Now please remove dependency of alphabet + apple for bank apps, and we're golden.
- IndianHandwash 5mo ago[flagged]
- 0xbadcafebee 5mo agoSoon: "President Trump issued a new tariff today on all non-US payment systems, saying `We have the best protectionist economy in the world, it's really great`"
- arpinum 5mo agoThis is the EU equivalent of Zelle, but pushing into merchant payments and owned and run by the banks. When the telcos tried to compete with the cloud providers by offering OpenStack they learned the business wasn't as simple as offering 10-15 services with some racks. I can imagine the same hidden complexity for payment rails On the other hand regulations have taken too much power away from merchants and Wero could succeed with more merchant friendly terms. They are doing 3-legged payments so they are not subject to as many European regulations as Visa/Mastercard.
- chatmasta 5mo agoUK Open Banking is a counter example to this argument. It’s been a huge success. Transfers between accounts are seamless, and I never need to authorize Plaid to maintain a permanent session in a headless Chromium instance reading my bank account. The APIs are well-defined, universally supported, and include authorization scopes for viewing balance, authorizing transfers, etc. That said, I don’t do many p2p payments in the UK (mostly because I’m an adult now, not splitting every bill like I was in college). And I wouldn’t like to add every one of my friends to my banking transfer history. The UK is missing something like Venmo with wide adoption. I assume the kids these days mostly use features like Apple Cash or Monzo transfers.
- arpinum 5mo agoI have not heard about UK Open Banking rails for merchants being popular. You are talking about P2P? the article is about challenging Visa/Mastercard.
- chatmasta 5mo agoThe article mentions P2P is coming first. It’s also in French, so I’m relying on translation…
- philipwhiuk 5mo agoSort of a success - people in the UK still ask for me for my account number and sort code.
- skrebbel 5mo agoI'd like to take this opportunity to share with you all that Wero is called Wero because Euro is pronounced "you-ro" and when you share your you-ro it becomes a we-ro.
- CharlesW 5mo agoAnd when anything goes wrong, that's a ruh-ro.
- irishcoffee 5mo agoWhen I give someone money I don't feel like I'm sharing it at all. Sounds like it goes from a "my-oh" to a "your-oh" and is aptly named from the jump.
- jeroenhd 5mo agoThere's supposedly also an Italian pun based on "vero" in there. I've heard pretty much every European English-as-a-second-language speaker pronounced the W differently, though, and pronunciation of the E isn't even consistent within native English populations. I can't wait for the "vee-ro? oh, you mean whay-ro" discussions between tourists and stores.
- dgellow 5mo agoIt will for sure be pronounced Véro in French :) Ouiro does sound pretty ridiculous to be honest
- freddealmeida 5mo ago[flagged]
- nicholasbraker 5mo agoI thought crypto would have solved this ;-)
- jasonlotito 5mo agoTo be fair, crypto is anti-consumer.
- And1 5mo agoLove to see it. When Canada legalized weed in 2018, the US administration made it clear that they can ban Canadians from the US for life if they have used marijuana in the past. The administration alluded to looking at Canadian's transaction history to facilitate cracking down on this more harshly[1]. It was so clear at that point to me how badly sovereign payments and banking is so needed. FATCA is a thing, I get it, I get the motivation- but allow another country to wield a "cooperation" like a weapon to attack Canada's sovereignty is just further evidence that we need to safeguard our data. [1] https://globalnews.ca/news/4461315/will-your-cannabis-credit-card-purchases-be-visible-to-u-s-border-officials-some-might-some-wont/ https://globalnews.ca/news/4461315/will-your-cannabis-credit...
- kingleopold 5mo agowhat until you understand what is next, cdbc and restricted digital money. Enjoy it.
- Waterluvian 5mo agoOne silver lining of the current U.S. regime's behaviour is how it's forcing us to move out of the local minima of over-Americanization that we've been stuck in for too long.
- chneu 5mo agoAs an American, I'm so glad America is finally crumbling from its position of power. Americans need a wake up call because our insane hubris and stubbornness is responsible for so much of the bad stuff in the world.
- 1234letshaveatw 5mo agoAnother American here, I find these self loathing kind of posts to be so sophomoric and embarrassing
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- tiffanyh 5mo agoDumb question for those EU folks ... How do you use this when paying online? Is there the equivalent of an "Apple Pay" button on merchant website for those based in EU? (Or a Pix button, when in Brazil, etc?)
- hellweaver666 5mo agoGo to store, select "pay by Wero". Get redirected to payment screen where I select my bank. My bank just shows a QR code that I scan with my bank app, authenticate the usual way, redirect back to store, job done.
- NoLinkToMe 5mo agoYes at the pay page there's a 'pay by X' list of options, you choose it. You then typically have two choices: scan QR with your phone or login to your bank. I normally open my bank app on my phone which signs in via my face (iPhone), I then press the scan button (first screen), point at my phone at the screen to read the QR code, the transaction pops up on my phone, I press confirm and again it signs via my face. Then you're done. If you were shopping on the phone it's even simpler of course as the pay button opens up the transaction in your bank app right away, but typically I shop on my laptop after research. I've had this for almost 20 years by the way in the Netherlands, but now it's pivoted to the EU standard.
- bux93 5mo agoThe merchant typically uses stripe or adyen or whatever (mollie has a cute name!), a payment service provider or PSP. The PSP looks at what methods the merchant wants to accept, which methods the user could potentially be using (based on e.g. country by geo IP or some delivery location) and show the relevant icons. EU users will see schemes like wero or Przelewy24, Japanese customers will see 'konbini' among the icons, and US users may only see credit cards, Apple Pay and Affirm. There are TONS of payment services. Stripe lists 123 of them. The merchant will want to exclude methods that have high costs (for themselves), maybe they also care about their customers not getting into debt (so no buy-now-pay-later or credit), and some payment methods have higher rates of disputes/chargebacks (e.g. Amex). In general, most merchants will want to offer as many methods as possible to prevent consumers who have a preference (this week) for using account A over account B from bouncing.
- HunOL 5mo agoThe title is definitely an over-exaggeration. "Goodbye" will happen when Europeans going abroad no longer need to take Visa or Mastercard cards with them. What is currently happening is the solving of instant cross-border P2P transfers, which sounds like a very niche problem. Online payments are mostly a solved problem because payment gateways like Adyen or Stripe already support local payment systems.
- hellweaver666 5mo agoWhen we need that, we can use Apple/Android pay in many many places or just spin up a temporary visa/mastercard with platforms like Revolut.
- izacus 5mo agoEven if Visa/MC keep the fee on foreign spending, losing domestic spending will be a massive financial loss for them (and big gain for EU markets).
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- aarroyoc 5mo agoThis is written from a French perspective as if southern countries joined later because they were not as developed. Quite the opposite. Spain, Italy and Portugal were in the first years of EPI, but they went there own ways because of the lack of progress that was being made by other members like France and Germany. Bizum in Spain is quite popular (I would say that more than Wero in France) and now is starting to manage payments in physical stores, after being a popular solution to transfer money between friends and in online payments (and in the physical black market).
- iLoveOncall 5mo agoYou must be very poor at reading French because the article says the exact opposite, and that Spain, Portugal, Italy and Andorra served as test subjects since they already have this system called EuroPA.
- ta-run 5mo agoIf they can make it as seamless as UPI, that would be incredible. UPI, imo, is the pinnacle of ease of internet payments - as seamless and quick as it can get.
- rafram 5mo agoUPI would be even better if it were easier for tourists to onboard and use it while traveling in India. The general mindset seems to be that there's enough domestic tourism that making things easy for foreigners isn't that important. I think that really hurts the country's economy.
- ta-run 5mo agoMy comment was more centered around the UX of UPI. But to address your point, there is a separate app for tourists called UPI One World, works as a digital wallet and the UX is similar.
- rafram 5mo agoIf only it were that simple! UPI One World isn't an app, it's a system that apps can implement, and the implementations, like Mony and Cheq, all have high fees and require you to go to random offices in inconvenient locations to verify your identity in person. As far as I can tell, all of this is "OK" because the primary target market for UPI One World is NRIs - again, who needs foreign tourists?
- legends2k 5mo agoYes, every user just gets a handle with no personal or bank info revealed and off you go. User keys in a UPI ID in any merchant site/app, get a push notification for approval in mobile app. Can associate multiple bank accounts to a UPI ID underneath. Approval will ask which account to debit from too. Can't get simpler than this.
- chatmasta 5mo agoDo Visa/Mastercard make much money in Europe? Most people use debit cards. I’m admittedly not clear on how exchange fees work for those.
- AndroTux 5mo agoThey make buttloads. Debit cards still require a cut for VISA/MasterCard.
- lxgr 5mo agoDebit cards have scheme fees and interchange rates just like credit cards. Interchange rates for credit and debit cards in the EU are actually very comparable and both very low, which is very different from many other parts of the world (e.g. in the US, debit interchange is effectively a flat fee per transaction). Visa and Mastercard make money on scheme fees paid to them by both issuers and acquirers (i.e. indirectly merchants), not interchange. There's an indirect impact of lower interchange rates, as issuers will usually not be willing to pay more than 100% of what they're earning in interchange in scheme fees. Acquirers have no such implicit limit, though.
- eesmith 5mo agoIf it requires (or will require) Google/Apple authentication then it's of course not sovereign payment. It looks like Wero works on GrapheneOS, at least for now. Will that always be possible? Will it always be smartphone only, or will there be other options? I've read about the problems kids (eg, 10 year olds) are having in the countries which have gone mostly cash-free when they don't have a smartphone or debit card to use for otherwise normal and age-appropriate transactions. I can't help but think that by switching even more of the economy to smartphone-based solutions then kids will have even more restricted purchasing autonomy. To say nothing of people like me who don't have and don't want to have a smart phone.
- ninalanyon 5mo agoNorway passed a law quite recently forbidding permanent card only shops, cafes, etc. As far as I can tell this was done for two reasons, firstly card only is discriminatory and secondly to improve the countries resilience in the face of cyber attacks. You can only be electronic payments only if you are a temporary sales location such as a flea market, ice cream van, etc.
- eesmith 5mo agoOh, interesting! I read https://www.newsinenglish.no/2024/10/01/cash-cleared-for-a-comeback/ https://www.newsinenglish.no/2024/10/01/cash-cleared-for-a-c... and https://www.lifeinnorway.net/norway-strengthens-right-to-pay-in-cash/ https://www.lifeinnorway.net/norway-strengthens-right-to-pay... . The point of budgeting via "cash stuffing" instead of the invisible shuffling of money through a bank card, is something that in retrospect is something similar to what I did when I was younger - the cash in my wallet is getting low, so I should hold back on expenditures. It lists some issues, like "The number of automated teller machines (called a minibank in Norwegian) has also declined, and most of them recently started charging a fee of NOK 10 (USD 1) to withdraw cash. If more people start using cash again, that may change." Can you perhaps tell me how things have changed in the last couple of years?
- ninalanyon 4mo ago
- trimethylpurine 5mo agoPlease post in English. Chrome is unable to translate this page.
- Arnt 5mo agoI tried Wero just now. Crashes at once on my phone. I run Lineage is, want backups on my own NAS. I have a feeling that if I want this European payment app I need to accept backing up my data on an American cloud. (I've nothing against Google really. But I want my backups at home.)
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- karel-3d 5mo agoI am a European (Czech Republic) and I have never heard of any of those (Epis/Bizum/Vipps).
- kassner 5mo agoI wonder if at some point we’ll be start taking about non-smartphone sovereign payments. The main reason I still use card is to be able to use it without a phone, and the technology of debit cards (around Europe at least) is quite OK. Maybe Europe should have a parallel payment track that is just a new card brand.
- tlogan 5mo agoSo this is basically the EU version of Zelle? Basically a way to transfer money between parties who already have established trust. Am I understanding that correctly? But I am confused about how this relates to Visa and Mastercard. Those systems are used for payments between parties that have not necessarily established trust.
- Ronsenshi 5mo agoIt's a an all-in-one kind of system where you have p2p payments and traditional online payments (like what you would do when making payment for a product on some e-commerce shop). Plus some additional features like payments through QR.
- lxgr 5mo ago> So this is basically the EU version of Zelle? Yes, but more importantly, it's essentially the EU version of Alipay (which can be used for merchant payments as well as P2P transactions). P2P payments, specifically SEPA Instant bank transfers, have already been instant and free for several years now in the EU, so there's no need for a Zelle alternative (other than maybe for contact discovery without IBAN). And speaking of Alipay: This is the actual global alternative to Visa and Mastercard that almost nobody in the west is talking about or even aware of. While it used to be mainly used by either inbound or outbound tourists in/from China, it now spans many countries and issuing and merchant banks all over the world, including many in Europe. Wero is many years behind in that regard.
- mrb 5mo agoYes Wero and Zelle are similar: real-time payment systems, where money is sent directly from bank account to bank account, and recipients are looked up with a convenient ID (a phone number, or an email).
- tlogan 5mo agoSo why is this article talking about Visa and Mastercard? These are two different use cases. I do not think anyone in their right mind is using Zelle to send money to a party they do not fully trust.
- lxgr 5mo agoThat's a pretty optimistic take. I'm a bit more cautious myself: The motivation is obviously higher than ever, but it's hardly a done deal. There are still many obstacles ahead: Contactless payments (Apple does not provide any card emulation NFC access to the Apple Watch, for example, and only limited access to iPhones), chargeback handling, offline payments (a recent priority of the EU under the larger umbrella of digital resiliency), and of course the network effect of the existing millions of terminals, ATMs, and cards in the field.
- philipwhiuk 5mo ago> Apple does not provide any card emulation NFC access to the Apple Watch, for example, and only limited access to iPhones It would be nice if we weren't also locked into American tech but that's a whole other ballgame.
- SirMaster 5mo agoBut does this act like a debit account? What I like about a credit card are things like you are buying on credit, not using money in your account directly. So in the case of fraud or issue a chargeback it's been much easier to get credit card transactions reverted rather than get money put back into my debit account. Also I like credit cards for the rewards, cash back or especially travel points. But also things like extended warranty coverage and other perks.
- jungturk 5mo ago> Also I like credit cards for the rewards, cash back or especially travel points. But also things like extended warranty coverage and other perks. Much of this is funded by inflated interchange fees paid by merchants (and thus inflating the cost of goods for everyone). Ideally you would just pay for the added value you see (fraud protection, charge disputes, supplemental insurance) rather than those costs being externalized to other buyers.
- gorbypark 5mo ago> But does this act like a debit account? Yeah, it's a debit account. I'm in Spain and use Bizum frequently. It's just a "pay from your bank account" system. You mostly type in your phone number, get a notification (or text, depends on the bank) and open up your banking app and approve the transaction. You can send money person to person as well. Many European countries have a similar system. Wero is "just" stitching the national systems together into a EU wide one. Credit cards with rewards and points are pretty rare in Europe, and if they do exist, pale in comparison to what you can get in the US/Canada. It depends on how you look at it, but it's kinda good. The EU caps credit card transaction fees at 0.3% and debit transactions at 0.2% iirc, versus in the US/Canada where they are frequently 2-3%. In theory this cost is just passed onto the consumer, so paying an extra 2-3% to get 2-3% back in points or whatever.
- tialaramex 5mo agoThe nasty element of that reward situation, and why I am deeply in favour of the European choice here, is that while some people get nice rewards, some people just pay much higher prices and don't get rewards. So this actually worsens the divide between rich and poor to an extent, and that's just bad policy.
- al_borland 5mo agoWhat does this mean for travel if Visa is not “everywhere you want to be”? I can’t tell if this is going to replace Visa/Mastercard or be offered in addition to Visa/Mastercard to handle transactions for locals while still allowing transactions to be viable for everyone else who might be passing through.
- SomeUserName432 5mo ago> What does this mean for travel if Visa is not “everywhere you want to be”? You'll live life as if you had AMEX instead.
- carlosjobim 5mo agoIt means that businesses who accept cards will have a great advantage against businesses who think they are smart by making life difficult for customers.
- Tehnix 5mo agoI don't see a way it wouldn't be offered in addition to. Some EU countries (e.g. Denmark) already do something similar where we a national debit card called "DanKort" (mashup of "Danmark" and "Kort" which translates to "Denmark" and "Card"). It typically also has a VISA part to it for usage abroad. All stores accept this as well as VISA/Mastercard since they want to maximize who they can get money for, so it's already a common place practice for payment terminals to do this. Tourism alone is enough of a reason you would accept VISA/Mastercard still.
- makeitdouble 5mo ago> I don't see a way it wouldn't be offered in addition to. Yes, it will for most nation wide chains, touristic places, and anywhere that has comfortable margins. For smaller shops and tighter business models, dropping the costlier networks will be the first thing they do. Same way a decent number of shops won't accept Amex, or just no card at all. Now if we're is cheap and popular enough, there might be more stores getting rid of cash as a reaction.
- iwontberude 5mo agoCrypto broskis have been selling so many bullshit coins for this specific moment in time and failed.
- tdiff 5mo agoJust for context, it looks very much the same as Fast Payment System in Russia. Been a thing for some 10 years, and huge amount of retail works on it.
- moralestapia 5mo agoCanada chiming in, Interac rules above anything else.
- kspacewalk2 5mo agoInterac should join this scheme outright or at least become interoperable with it. I'd love to be able to pay for everything on my trips to Europe without using US credit card networks.
- moralestapia 5mo agoOof, that would be phenomenal!
- deaton 5mo agoAs interesting as this is, it kinda sucks that on Android this is supposed to be locked behind DroidGuard, meaning that you are effectively still stuck with the duopoly unless you are willing to run an unmodified phone or microG happens to be winning the game of whack-a-mole that day.
- dzonga 5mo agoonce again the crypto shills - r left exposed. pix as already proven in Brazil - is faster. this system again will be faster & secure & more convenient with less fees.
- cubbic 5mo agoHow does it compare to the digital euro, isn't it better?
- cubbic 5mo agoHow does it compare to digital euro plan?
- LelouBil 5mo agoDigital euro has plans to be "cash-like" and have "private, offline payments", Wero is not aiming in this direction
- dethos 5mo agoI really want this initiative to succeed. MBway a participant in it, is perhaps one of the most useful apps I ever had on my phone. Extending its functionality to all of Europe would be outstanding. Especially if I can then use it online on international websites.
- throwaway132448 5mo agoIt’s kind of wild seeing American soft power evaporate like this. I didn’t think it was the kind of thing that would happen in my lifetime.
- cryptoegorophy 5mo agoToo bad cryptocurrency never took off. Such a missed opportunity
- grey-area 5mo agoCryptocurrency didn't actually solve the problems we have, while introducing problems we didn't need to solve, because almost all of them copied Bitcoin. The only problems it solved well was for grifter politicians and criminals skirting financial regulations. Note this transfer mechanism requires trust in your banking provider, is not pseudo-anonymous, is not decentralised, uses the banking system we already have and doesn't require a whole new 'currency' in order to transfer money.
- jorisw 5mo agoCan't be a missed opportunity if it never took off. People know what they like/dislike, and crypto payments didn't cut it for whatever reasons. UX, cost, and waiting for blockchain confirmations come to mind. Also what problems did it solve that we actually have? Without that, there's no incentive for change.
- dheera 5mo agoWhen I click on a link, I expect information. When I get blasted with this: https://i.imgur.com/oeGU3qd.png https://i.imgur.com/oeGU3qd.png I really don't know what to do. I can't read so much. Bounce.
- h1fra 5mo agoI'll be happy when we get credit cards without a visa or mastercard logo
- phplovesong 5mo agoIs there an english version of this?
- dxetech 5mo agoPayments are much more complicated than just who your issuer is. As noted in other comments, connecting the customer directly to the aquirer can lose significant functionality. Pre authorization, installments, card on file and other typical services may be offered differently than expected, or not at all. In addition, Mastercard and Visa still write the rules for industry. If at some point advanced Mastercard or Visa 3ds security significantly reduce fraud, and thus rates, consumers may start paying more for issuers that dont support similar technologies. On top of all of this, point of interaction device support may lag. The latest features from Ignenico and such may take a while to implement, or again may not be supported at all for smaller financial companies. All that being said, it’s great for consumers to have the choice, and hopefully we all benefit from increased competition. Disclaimer: I work for a Payment Gateway
- makeitdouble 5mo ago> installments, card on file and other typical services These are typically cherished by the issuers and not really wanted/needed by the customer. Card installments in particular are the bane of our society IMHO and straight loans replace them properly. Many banks in EU already had loan systems integrated to deal with oversized purchases and extraordinary months, so getting it out of the network doesn't remove the service to the customer in most cases. We're kinda seeing this playing out with alternative payment systems in Asia for instance: they provide way less options, yet get very popular.because people just don't miss the extra stuff.
- jfengel 5mo ago(In French.) That could be a massive hassle for American tourists, who will still mostly have Visa and Mastercard. I'm sure that there will be some kind of solution -- I suspect Google Pay and Apple Pay will support the new network. But I'll have to keep an eye out. I might even have to start bringing cash. I used to make that the very first thing I did on landing. The last few times I didn't get any cash at all.
- tamirzb 5mo agoThis is already an issue for tourists in many countries that have their own payment system (e.g. Brazil, India, Singapore, Thailand). In some of them you have companies that came up with products for tourists that allow them to pay but they usually come with fees. From what I know the majority of tourists in these countries just travel with cash.
- senordevnyc 5mo agoI've never had a problem paying with cards in Singapore or Thailand, although it's been a few years since I've been to Thailand.
- amunozo 5mo agoI had that issue in India and it was definitely annoying.
- repparw 5mo agoanecdotally, a lot of argentina's apps that have a similar system "had" to develop an interop with brazil's PIX as a feature, ideally an endgame would be for these systems (wero, pix, other countries') to all standardize and integrate each other. would love something like that.
- carlosjobim 5mo agoCards are accepted everywhere in Brazil, including all foreign cards. For Thailand it used to be the same, and I doubt they have regressed.
- 5mo ago
- alsetmusic 5mo agoThe damage this admin has done to the USA as a whole, so far, is astounding. It's good for Europe to decouple from the USA, but I'm sure the folks at Visa and Mastercard aren't thrilled.
- tom1337890 5mo agoThank you Trump - I guess?! It's great for Europe to wake up and for pointing out we need to decouple from the US and become more tech independent. It's bad enough that the whole world is financing the debt of the USA and every person therein. I hope, that in the long run, our democratic values and freedom will become more and more attractive. Especially when all other players become autocratic regimes. That is, if we realize this freedom is not a given and we are willing to put in the work.
- persephonex 5mo ago[dead]
- Cider9986 5mo agoFor hackers, Monero is the perfect digital payment system.
- dewey 5mo agoOn paper, in practice it's delisted (At least in EU) from most exchanges like Kraken which makes it an extra hassle to get.
- pgraf 5mo agoWero uses AWS for their infrastructure... So much about their sovereignty focus. Source(German): https://netzpolitik.org/2026/uneingeloestes-versprechen-auf-digitale-souveraenitaet-europaeischer-bezahldienst-wero-nutzt-amazon-server/ https://netzpolitik.org/2026/uneingeloestes-versprechen-auf-...
- TheMagicHorsey 5mo agoThe UPI payment system in India seems to work really well. I'm not sure about the architecture exactly, but there seems to be a way to generate one-time passwords that you can use to pay people a fixed amount. E.g. you go to a website or store, and they display a QR code for payment, which contains the payment recipient information and amount of the charge. When you scan it, you are taken to your bank app where you authorize the recipeint and the amount, then you are given a special code in the form of a QR code or alphanumeric code. The person recieving the payment can scan the code to recieve payment ... or if you are online you can paste the alphanumeric code. No other information is exchanged. There's nothing that can compromise your ID or account info. Pretty amazing! Insane that a developing country has something so seemless, and meanwhile in the USA my credit card number is stolen online every 3 to 5 years, necessitating cancellations and in some cases (as with Chase) I had to close the entire account as they could not stop the fraud even after issuing 5 new cards over the space of 6 months--somehow the new card authorizations were being ported automatically into some subscription systems.
- 0x1ceb00da 5mo agoIndia had to get rid of cash and move virtually all transactions online to deal with the massive fake currency problem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH4TTuW_JcA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH4TTuW_JcA
- gpvos 5mo agoWero is for internet payments, but Visa and Mastercard are still involved for card payments. I just got a new-style Dutch debit card and it has a Mastercard logo on it; Visa cards are also still being given out.
- lccerina 5mo agoThe idea is that merchants will ditch the card-pos in the long run. You scan a QR-code or send money through some app. Satispay does that in Italy and got massive rollout from stores because fees were pretty low also for smaller transfers, so no more "sorry, at least 5 euros to pay with card"
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- gpvos 5mo agoToo bad you will be forced to use a phone then. I don't like having yet another single point of failure. But maybe by that time, the EU requirement to accept cash will have taken force.
- lccerina 4mo agoIndeed. It's a step forward and two backwards, personally I don't have payment cards on the phone wallet because one company surveilling my purchases is enough. Hopefully there will be some Wero-powered card option. From a UX point of view, both payers and merchants, it's still the most practical and fast.
- throwaway2037 5mo agoSomewhat tangential: With advent of LLMs that are very good at translating European languages into English, I think it is great that people are submitting non-English content. I support it 100%. I hope that we see more of it. It will help to expand our "HN Universe" to include more languages and content.
- dredmorbius 5mo agoFirefox's local-only (as in not remote-hosted) translation also does a remarkable job here.
- fguerraz 5mo agoAnd then Apple pay and Google pay are not going to implement it, and nobody is going to use it.
- myko 5mo agoThis is good for the world given the situation in the USA today. The folks in the US who voted for this will never understand how badly they fucked up.
- sajithdilshan 5mo agoIf it's p2p transfers why not just use SEPA instant transfers? As for online payments and POS payments, I don't even remember the last time I used a physical card. It's always been Apple pay and I really don't care which card is being used by Apple Pay
- jorisw 5mo agoA Wero payment is executed as a SEPA transfer. As an online store you don't want to ask customers to manually input a payment reference into a SEPA transfer. It's all about ease of use (and safety).
- Avamander 5mo ago> As an online store you don't want to ask customers to manually input a payment reference into a SEPA transfer. It's all about ease of use (and safety). How? With a SEPA transfer I can actually see who I'm paying. With a CC or equivalent it's a lottery.
- jorisw 5mo agoI think the headline is misleading to the point of being childish. It describes a consolidation of _online_ payment systems that are currently quite fragmented in the EU. It does nothing about in-store payments. Direct debit cards (10x as popular as credit cards in the EU) are often still MC/Visa powered, and the fastest way to pay contactless (even if that is via Apple Pay).
- fooyc 5mo agoOnline and in-store payments will follow in 2027, as per the article
- jorisw 5mo agoUnderstood. But even then it couldn't be easier than the contactless direct debit we already have.
- lentil_soup 5mo agowill depend on how it's implemented, you could end up paying via a QR code, contact less NFC, a phone number, the web. I think it could open up a lot of innovation
- grey-area 5mo agoIt could be cheaper though and it also reduces the reliance on an untrustworthy former ally.
- ffritz 5mo agoThe payer couldn't care less about how much the store pays for the transaction. He or she just wants to tap with their phone, and the default here are Visa/MC cards. In addition to the transaction price not being an argument for the payer, Wero also afaik does not have as much consumer protection as (certainly some) credit cards offer. I also bet the average person doesn't understand or care about the whole political dispute either. Again, they just want to pay easily and safely. I don't think Wero can "win" this from just the merchants side. It's got to be better for the customer's side.
- LelouBil 5mo agoWero started as Paylib [0], a French banks grouping used to provide phone number based payments between banks (and some banks also use it to provide NFC payments on android, instead of Google Wallet). And also, Wero (unlike something like PayPal), is integrated in your bank's app, for (almost) all participating banks [0] (Warning: French) https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paylib https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paylib
- KerryJones 5mo agoI think this is misleading as a few other folks say -- otherwise you'd expect Visa/Mastercard stock to drop dramatically at losing that many folks in a single announcement.
- svpk 5mo agoAs far as different payment systems go I think gnu taler is the most compelling. If keeps the payer anonymous while letting the government know how much the payee received for tax purposes. https://www.taler.net/en/index.html https://www.taler.net/en/index.html
- injidup 5mo agoIn Austria I'm always in the situation that shops and restaurants are unhappy that I pay by card because they claim that even a direct debit card cost them some large percentage through the terminal provider. Will these new systems remove the middle man skimming that MasterCard/Visa has been doing to small businesses?
- twoodfin 5mo agoIf they really thought this was valueless skimming, why wouldn’t they just refuse to take these cards?
- tom1337890 4mo agoBecause customers like the cards. Not restaurants. And customer is king. There are few businesses who do not accept it. Some hair dressers, some alternative bars, etc.
- asdfman123 5mo agoWe've lost so much American soft power for no discernible benefit whatsoever. When you release a bull in a china shop all you end up with is a lot of broken china, extensive cleanup work, and a steep bill.
- jmyeet 5mo agoWe're entering an era of "tech nationalism". China has been completely vindicated for esssentially not allowing their country and economy to be held hostage to foreign tech companies. It would be an era of "tech colonialism". Look into the century of humiliation, gunboat diplomacy, the opium wars, etc and see why China might not be on board for that. Europe collectively is a US vassal state, not just in tech. As an example, if someone in Switzerland Venmos someone in the Netherland with a description of "Cuba" or even "Cuban" (sandwich), the payment could be delayed or you could be banned entirely [1]. Why should a payment between two Europeans in Europe be entangled with US sanctions? The danger here for European "tech emancipation" is that the US government will get involved and fight the fights for US companies. The United Fruit Company was the poster child for this where the US deposed the Guatemalan government in 1954 and the 60+ years of Cuban sanctions are basically because the UFC was cheating on Cuban taxes. Brazil's Pix (IMHO) will come under the pressure of this on behalf of Visa/Mastercard that may include trade retaliation and other forms of pressure and the US government will argue that Pix is "illegally" subsidized by the government. Europe's payment systems will face the same attacks. [1]: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/matthewzeitlin/be-careful-paying-for-cuban-food-on-venmo https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/matthewzeitlin/be-caref...
- tensor 5mo agoThe ship has already sailed and the US is simply refusing to recognize it. Yes, in the short term there will be tantrums thrown and threats made, but it won't prevent the middle powers from diversifying away from the US.
- locallost 5mo agoThe report of my demise was greatly exaggerated. I see 10 people in my address book that I could theoretically send money via Wero. Hundreds of people in my address book have a Visa or a MasterCard. It's not a bad thing to have competition and ambition, but to say goodbye is premature to say the least. Online payments especially between regular people (so not businesses) are still dominated by PayPal. And even online shopping is dominated by PayPal although Apple and Google Pay are taking a bigger slice because it's just so convenient. And they're just again using Visa and MasterCard. I'm not sure Wero was developed to be very practical. I registered with my phone number, but now have second thoughts because I don't want to give my phone number to strangers when buying on second hand marketplaces. But guess what - you cannot change it. You cannot register a second number. It just feels very rigid in its design. There were other systems already that were supposed to do the same. Girocard/EC... All dead and buried now.
- Fokamul 5mo agoIt's only available in 3 countries in EU. Great. But classic slowness of EU, it should be in whole EU yesterday. With manadatory Euro.
- shevy-java 5mo agoGood. Now the same has to happen for the software industry. Unfortunately EU officials also can not be trusted. They are indeed weak. So we all know in the long run, the USA always gets favourable deals and Europans are kept as proxy-payers here. Germany in particular has a very unhealthy love affair going with the USA; to some extent this is understandable due to an export-centric industry, but now there is a recession and Germany still thinks it'll go away soon, "just don't change anything". Timid rabbits, with Merz being the uber-rabbit that just does nothing useful on his own. Other than risking being a loudmouth before he was elected - and now germans are very unhappy with his performance.
- kadomony 5mo agoThis explains why they were in China pushing for them to open up the market to them. They're nearly bleeding all of Europe.
- scirob 5mo agoIdk n26 still not integrated. Twint in Switzerland has amazing penetration can pay at any terminal with qr code
- Fokamul 5mo agoYeah, thanks no thanks. Wero is owned by the banks from worst EU countries - Belgium, France, Germany, Netherlands. In my country, we call them New Middle East. Yeah, no way I would support this in my business. They will ban you for things they don't "like" in their countries. Like free speech, gun manufacturing and exporting to Ukraine. Being anti illegal immigrants etc. (legal immigrants are great, like Ukranians, Belarusians, even Russians if they burn their passport, haha)
- dormento 5mo ago> Like free speech, gun manufacturing and exporting to Ukraine. "Free-speech' discussions aside, they're banning you from "manufacturing" and "exporting" TO Ukraine? This war is becoming very complicated.
- Giorgi 5mo agoOh, it is monthly paid Wero ad.
- throwawayaltepi 5mo ago(throwaway alt because main is traceable) epi acquired idealo (in the Netherlands, and payconiq in Belgium/Luxembourg), slapped the wero brand on it, and announced proudly they have x million customers. wero as a brand has close to 0 market recognition, and with idealo and payconiq they butchered some of the systems (in the name of consolidation) so badly that incidents have become the norm (and security wise ...yikes!). Worth mentioning that epi is just the latest attempt at a pan-European payment system, the previous attempts, the Monnet project and PEPSI, failed miserably after wasting billions (tens of billions?) and ...it doesn't repeat, it rhymes. I wish we could replace visa/mastercard but epi is absolutely not the solution, imho.
- doctorpangloss 5mo ago> epi is absolutely not the solution, imho. pray tell, why? why is X not a solution and Stripe is haha won't someone please think of Stripe common holders!
- raelmiu 5mo agoAaaaaahahahahahahaha, sure they are. Sure.
- jansenmac 5mo agoI think it is a good initiative and a needed step in EU integration. I do think it is remarkable to frame this as a move towards more sovereignty. More EU integration has traditionally always been framed as giving up sovereignty by the member states. Now it is the other way around - thanks to the United States.
- morkalork 5mo agoFree the nipple! Will it be the alternative to visa/mastercard dictating only puritanical usage of their payment systems?
- BXLE_1-1-BitIs1 5mo agoTrump sanctions against ICC members and at least one human rights rapporteur has effectively debanked these people and made it very difficult for them to travel. Protecting Rule of International Law against Rule of Trump Ukazi has become necessary.
- casey2 5mo agoMaybe visa and mastercard will stop bulling Americans now that they are the only customer base... Who am I kidding. They will become much worse.
- atlasagentsuite 5mo ago[dead]
- greatgib 5mo agoIn my opinion, Wero is harmful and the comparison with Visa and Mastercard is moot. Wero is not and will not be a card network will all its features so not a real competitor. Also, currently the perfect alternative for european is instant transferts (and openbanking) that was imposed by EU to banks. That is the working quite well and the equivalent to Pix in my opinion. But, especially for OpenBanking, european banks have done everything to block open systems like that, that gives more control to consumers. So, here comes Wero, the goal is for the most awful legacy Europeans banks to create a new monopoly under their control. They use the "instant transfer" network, they sugar coat that with a proprietary stack to match phone number/emails with iban accounts and to give each other a few exemptions of 2 factors confirmations and so. But access to the network and protocols will be secret and kept for themselves to prevent fintech and competitors to disrupt their grip on consumer money spendings. If you look at it, Wero is not an innovative stack, it is the usual java shit that you find in the old banks. The kind that make your bank app a real pain in the ass with stupid limitations.
- snvzz 4mo agoGood riddance.
- luplex 4mo agoWero's messaging is so confusing. It's so many different things at the same time. In short: Wero is a brand name for a collection of payment services. They are merging multiple European alternatives, like Spain's Bizum and the Netherlands' IDeal. These mergers are in various stages, so what exactly "Wero" can do depends on: - your bank - your country Wero-proper (like it is in Germany, not a rebrand of a pre-existing system) currently supports peer-to-peer payments via SEPA instant transfer, using a centralized phone number <> IBAN lookup server. Wero also supports online e-commerce payments (with buyer's protection similar to credit cards, managed by the customer's bank). But not all banks that support Wero p2p also support Wero E-commerce. If your payments run on e.g. Stripe, you can enable Wero for all participating banks. Wero is cheaper than credit card payments. Some time next year, Wero will offer in-store point-of-sale (POS) payments. Afaik, those are not live anywhere yet. I think with all the mergers with established systems, the chance of success is really high.