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Indoor tanning makes youthful skin much older on a genetic level
- drooopy 10mo agoThere was this lady who started going to the tanning salon across the street from my place. In 4-5 months her skin had turned from pale white into tanned leather. It was shocking watching this happen.
- eduction 10mo agoIsn’t that precisely the expected outcome of going to a tanning salon?
- Tempest1981 10mo agoShockingly unnatural, I assume, not shocking scientifically.
- SoftTalker 10mo agoYeah very similar story. A friend of my wife's started tanning and now she looks like an old bag of brown leather. Too much is never enough for her.
- adrianN 10mo agoI suppose the specifics are novel enough to warrant a paper, but on a layman’s level it has been known for decades that UV ages your skin rapidly.
- baxtr 10mo agoI don’t think it’s super straightforward. Another thing laymen know: Most younger people in southern Europe don’t look old.
- brabel 10mo agoI think that’s because locals have some level of adaptation to their region. In Australia, you can really see how the high levels of sunshine affect the Northern Europe descendants who live there today. Some 30 yo women look easily 40.
- blell 10mo agoI actually live in southern Europe and most of my friends who are >35 and have been out and about for most of their lives do indeed look much older than they are.
- 7bit 10mo ago"known" is the wrong word. Laymen know a lot of things, like ingesting lead, radium, mercury and arsenic. Up until a couple of years ago, people "knew" that one glass of wine a day was healthy, when infact every drop is poisonous to the body. In reverse, people thought (and too many still "know") that MSG and pasteurization is bad. Don't use the word know, when in fact you mean "assume".
- djtango 10mo agoIs MSG not bad for you in the way aspartame is not bad for you? I totally get that MSG is naturally present in dashi but the chemistry of dashi (a very messy and complex mix of substances) vs purified msg is going to be different, and the concentrations the japanese consume food containing dashi are very different to the way UPFs and chinese restaurants gratuitously smother your food in it. MSG is to many cuisines what butter is to western cuisine (ie moar is always bettah)
- sallveburrpi 10mo agoMSG is only bad for you because it makes things taste amazing so you are going to eat more than you actually should. Nothing wrong with butter btw. As with most food stuffs if not consumed in moderation it can become a problem.
- padjo 10mo agoThere’s no evidence linking MSG specifically with any chronic health issues and little reason to suspect there would be in healthy people at the quantities generally consumed. Funnily enough many people who are wary of MSG and try to avoid it would be better off looking at their sodium intake, which we know for sure has long term health risks.
- jtbayly 10mo agosalt is bad again?
- 10mo ago
- tannhaeuser 10mo agoWe can do better than "known for decades, on a layman's level" folklore and the answer actually isn't as straightforward ([1]). Recently there's even been discussion (by a Brit scientist I believe but I have no reference) on skin cancer vs more serious forms of cancer, and also about skin pigmentation playing a role here. [1]: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022202X2400280X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022202X2...
- anon373839 10mo agoThat link does not refute the claim that UV ages your skin, which it unquestionably does.
- adrianN 10mo agoYeah of course scientists can still learn more, but at some point the layman can’t really get any new information from the press release.
- Nevermark 10mo agoI think people way over cook themselves. The economics and amplified power of tanning beds at salons push people to highly overdose. I estimated that 1 minute of artificial tanning is comparable to the 10-15 minutes of sun a day that is recommended. But has the benefit of the whole body's largest organ kicking in for the health benefits. So I tan at home for 1 minute a couple times a week. You can't do this economically with a salon. I don't really get tan, just a little more color. But when I do get any lengthy sun time due to outdoor activities, I tan quickly instead of burn.
- Sparkyte 10mo agoI just walk outdoors.
- Nevermark 10mo agoNude? :) I do think getting a bit of sun everywhere has to enhance the benefits. Thus my solution. I also walk a lot when I can and weather allows. I started walking with a weighted vest occasionally and it was like my body went into some kind of good shock. I was surprised how little soreness or fatigue I felt even the first time, after a two hour walk wearing 20 lbs. And the physical energy boost was dramatic. I switched to 40 lbs the second time and since.
- medstrom 10mo agoThere are tan-thru clothes, if you want to be serious about it.
- JumpCrisscross 10mo ago> I do think getting a bit of sun everywhere has to enhance the benefit Why? This is not how we naturally insolate. I’m not saying you’re wrong. Just that the status quo is different parts of your body getting sun each day. You’re not replicating that, which places the burden of evidence on you.
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- jwpapi 10mo agoHow does this compare to Melatonan peptide?
- chrisco255 10mo agoMelanotan makes your skin react to light more effectively and you can get a full tan quite quickly with it (even in a few days). I don't know whether that means it ages you less because it takes less UV exposure to get a good tan with it or if it has some other adverse side effect. But I have tried it once and it is definitely effective.
- jwpapi 10mo agoI assume both is unhealthy, but I also like to be tanned and take the risk. Preferably from safe sun, but when not possible I’m debating tanning bed vs Melatonan and I haven’t found evidence.
- breve 10mo agoWhy go to the expense of a tanning bed when you can get skin cancer for free.
- hbogert 10mo agoGeographically this is unpractical at some locations. Mild understatement. Do you happen to live in a year round sunny place?
- ImHereToVote 10mo agoThis is true. As a society we often overlook the barriers to get skin cancer in many communities.
- hbogert 10mo agoThe tongue in cheek is strong in this one ^
- doubled112 10mo agoIt’s currently -10C with 50km/h wind gusts. The cloud cover suggests I’ll see some snow today. There is no sun. I’ll lend you my balcony if you want to try for a tan. Do you think it will happen before sunset? That’s 430pm and it is currently 10:30am.
- Tempest1981 10mo agoMy job requires me to work indoors during high-UV hours. But I'll look into weekend exposure, thanks!
- mrguyorama 10mo agoGet a job as a welder and you can get UV exposure every day!
- everyone 10mo agoI live in Ireland, there's practically 0 opportunity to get exposed to the sun unless you work outdoors, and even then only your face and hands and perhaps forearms get exposed. I just take vitamin D tablets. Also I know UV goes through clouds, but when its raining all the time you tend to stay indoors and only go outside with raincoat / umbrella.
- faangguyindia 10mo agoAfter workout, i sit in the mild sun each morning before having my breakfast and have done so for many years now. I live near Himalayas and sun is always there, except for some weeks of winter.
- xandrius 10mo agoAnd?
- Xiol 10mo agoHe's very fit but looks like he's 120 years old.
- iwontberude 10mo agoIt’s not just the working out — it’s the sun lounging that has really made you comprehend the differences.
- qubex 10mo agoAs a naturist I’ve always wondered whether there’s a difference in prevailing skin cancer rates, but I’ve never found any data.
- gazabbqparty 10mo ago[dead]
- miladyincontrol 10mo agoExcessive UV exposure in general not a great time, tanning is just a way of speedrunning damage unless done in very short intervals. I'll never understand some people's fetishization with getting darker via tanning though. Theres nothing wrong with light skin, its only a few western countries that seem to have a weird fetishization with cooking your skin longterm to get darker short term. Meanwhile most other countries and peoples are willing to damage their skin in whole other ways trying to get the opposite.
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- thisislife2 10mo agoCosmetic companies to blame? In the east, they fetishize white / fair skin, while in the west they fetishize dark skin.
- asdfasvea 10mo agoNo, people who do it are to blame.
- miladyincontrol 10mo agoPossibly. Its actually insanely frustrating as someone pale that most western brands rarely approach the level of lightness I need to match my skin, and the few that come close often are almost always rather saturated, highly warm tones. They almost always just stick to tones within the realm of pantone's skin guide, treating it more like a skin bible instead. Haus labs and their triclone in 000 is one of the few foundations I've ever had match.
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- prmoustache 10mo agoPeople with dark skin do also still struggle to find their tones in most western countries unless they live in a huge city.
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- ekjhgkejhgk 10mo agoIf you travel around you can see with your own eyes that countries that have both A) more sun and B) culture of intentional exposure (e.g. at the beach) people by the age they're 40 have on average noticeably worse skin. More wrinkles, more dark patches etc.
- testing22321 10mo agoMore skin cancer
- BobbyTables2 10mo agoDon’t even have to go to other countries. Just visit New Mexico (;->
- Bridged7756 10mo agoWhat a stupid thing. Probably on par with people bleaching their skin with chemicals.
- doubled112 10mo agoBut my b-hole is b-hole coloured and what if somebody sees it?
- deadbabe 10mo agoIn my experience, people who tan know this but the argument is always they don’t care it’s part of life and it’s better to just enjoy now than spend time worrying about looking wrinkly in the future, because what’s the point of being old and having smooth perfect skin? Fucking stupid, there is nothing better in life than looking young and beautiful forever IMO.
- viking123 10mo agoMost people can barely think a month ahead, they will wake up one day and be like oh shit why do I look so old and panic hard and do all sorts of surgeries, skin creams etc. nonsense while they could have just avoided the sun or used the suncreen..
- deadbabe 10mo agoMost people thinking aging is something that happens to other people, but that they will always pass for 20 something. Then they get offended when you correctly guess their age in the late 30s or 40s.
- hereme888 10mo agoThe UVB portion of sunlight indirectly increases dopamine levels. You find it mainly near noon-day sunlight, and tanning beds. So the feel-good effects may encourage users to come back for more.
- kevin_thibedeau 10mo agoFrequent tanning bed users all have this addict level rationalization for using them when everyone knows it's harmful.
- voidmain 10mo agoThere's a history of finding really strong correlations between vitamin D levels and (many kinds of) health, and then disappointing results for RCTs of vitamin D supplementation. There are lots of possible explanations of this, but it seems like a plausible one is that there are some good things sunlight does for you other than produce vitamin D. So I'm a little nervous about everyone eliminating all sun exposure and then taking vitamin D geltabs to compensate, even though sunlight carries some risks. (But obviously too much ionizing radiation is also a problem, and it sounds like most users of tanning beds are getting a lot of intense exposure)
- Workaccount2 10mo agoI wonder how much correlation this has with exercise. Generally if you are getting good levels of sunlight, there is a good chance you are outside exercising, even if it's just walking. After all, exercise is the undisputed God tier all-time winning champion of "Studies show that ______ is good for xyz."
- jerlam 10mo agoAlso gives you a brief respite from sitting in a climate-controlled environment and staring at screens.
- james_marks 10mo agoI remember a study where they shone light on the back of the knee to control for this. While I believe there are many benefits of being outside and exercising, there does appear to be specific benefits to sun-like UV exposure.
- lukeschlather 10mo agoI've taken up running because it's a way to get sunlight during the winter, I can run in shorts and a t shirt. I am very active, but I start getting a lot of anxiety if I don't get sunlight on my skin for a week or two.
- jnwatson 10mo agoUVA triggers the release of nitric oxide from the skin into the bloodstream. This causes blood vessels to dilate, lowering blood pressure and improving circulation.
- nailherwithrust 10mo ago[flagged]
- Noaidi 10mo agoMost of you would not even be close to guessing the top ten states with the highest skin cancer rates. Utah Minnesota Vermont Arizona Iowa Idaho New Hampshire South Dakota Nebraska Kentucky https://statecancerprofiles.cancer.gov/incidencerates/index.php?stateFIPS=00&areatype=state&cancer=053&race=00&sex=0&age=001&stage=999&year=0&type=incd&sortVariableName=cirank&sortOrder=asc#results https://statecancerprofiles.cancer.gov/incidencerates/index.... Skin damage, and skin cancer, is not just about the sun. It is about genetics and nutrition as well.
- trallnag 10mo agoIt's not just about cancer. it's about aesthetics, how leathery you look.
- riazrizvi 10mo agoIt’s like someone wrote an article in 1992 and finally decided to submit it.
- pazimzadeh 10mo agoFunny timing, I just went to a tanning salon for the first time yesterday. I asked for the weakest bed (level 1), which has the most UVB (for vitamin D production). They were shocked that I wanted to use level 1, apparently no one uses it. They also suggested starting at 5 mins instead of the 1-2 minutes I wanted to do. The machine itself has a notice saying not to go over 3 mins for the first week. I was following the protocol from this paper, which started people at 2 mins and used low wattage UVB-heavy bulbs. Sunbeds with UVB radiation can produce physiological levels of serum 25-Hydroxyvitamin D in healthy volunteers https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5821157/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5821157/ Unfortunately the Science Advances paper being discussed is epidemiological and doesn't distinguish between the type of bulb, length of time, and other parameters used while tanning. However it is safe to say that the average tanner cares more about getting dark than anything else. I think there would actually be a market for vitamin D centered "healthy tanning" where only low wattage, high-UVB bulbs are used particularly in cloudy areas or where the winter is long. I'm that guessing the operating costs for that kind of business would be cheaper than your average tanning salon, too.
- Liftyee 10mo agoInteresting... What benefits does this have over vitamin D supplements? I've seen this "optimising for some perceived negative effects" thing with toothbrushes/toothpaste, where "whitening" and stiff bristles actually just means removing more (irreplaceable) enamel from your teeth.
- MaKey 10mo agoStiff bristles also damage your gum more easily and can lead to gum recessions. I needed gum transplants because of this and a wrong brushing technique. For me even medium stiffness is too hard.
- ranger_danger 10mo agoMy problem is that soft bristles don't remove much food/plaque from the teeth and I end up having to brush way too hard.
- yoan9224 10mo agoThe UV damage from tanning beds has been well documented for decades, but what's novel here is the genetic methylation analysis showing accelerated aging at the DNA level. What's wild to me is the economics. Tanning salons charge $30-50/month to give you skin cancer. Meanwhile vitamin D supplements cost $10/year and achieve the same health benefit people claim to seek from tanning. The only rational argument I've heard for controlled UV exposure is building a base tan before vacation to prevent burning. But even then, 1-2 minutes in a low-wattage bed would suffice - not the 20+ minute sessions people actually do.
- alistairSH 10mo agoWhere are you seeing vitamin D supplements for $10/year? That’s several orders of magnitude less than most OTC supplements.
- thwarted 10mo agoA Google search for vitamin d results in ads, ahem "sponsored results", for 180 servings for $27, which is about $55 for a full year assuming it's one serving per day, which is the same decimal order of magnitude as $10 (but, I suppose, since we are on HN, is three or four orders of magnitude in binary)
- ranger_danger 10mo ago> accelerated aging at the DNA level Wouldn't anything that moves/vibrates molecules faster, accelerate aging in general?
- feverzsj 10mo agoThis reminds me of the "Tanning Mom". [0] https://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/26/justice/new-jersey-tanning-case https://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/26/justice/new-jersey-tannin...
- horizion2025 10mo ago"The young tanning bed users had more skin mutations than people twice their age, especially in their lower backs, an area that does not get much damage from sunlight but has a great deal of exposure from tanning beds." So in other areas than the lower back, everyone - tan bed users or not - have these supposed seeds of melanoma as well? And that is for a much larger area of the skin than the one mentioned. Also I wonder about the quote that a mutated cell can never go back. The immune system could kill the mutated cells and thereby promote the unmutated ones. Though nothing is perfect of course. https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2020/jan/analysis-protective-lungs-cells-replenish-ex-smokers-reducing-cancer-risk https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2020/jan/analysis-protective-lung...
- scotty79 10mo ago> The immune system could kill the mutated cells and thereby promote the unmutated ones. This happens all the time. The mutated cells we see are the ones that immune system couldn't detect and kill. Fortunately they are still overwhelmingly non-cancerous, but unfortunately some might be.
- horizion2025 10mo agoYes I agree, I was just responding the article's "“We cannot reverse a mutation once it occurs, ..." I don't think that is entirely accurate. Also, I think it is a dynamic process, so even cells the immune system hasn't killed yet could be found later. Or the mutation could cause other deviancies that will make the cell uncompetitive with healthy cells. But it is a slow process - it takes years for former smokers' lung cancer risk to return to near that of never smokers. And it probably never gets there - some mutated cells may never be detectable and there's clearly also a threshold beyond which the cancer is irreversible, at least without intervention.
- stefantalpalaru 10mo ago[dead]
- erelong 10mo agoI thought the healthy consensus was to get a little of actual sunlight on the skin for vitamin D production and other things
- Gud 10mo agoWhat about red light treatment, https://platinumtherapylights.eu/?srsltid=AfmBOoo2cCKKYMO53wcTgnbPcko6IeSeAzTvUh8KHyuTKYJF6hRUP143&shpxid=3dbb84f6-f767-440e-ab98-5e5e630766ae https://platinumtherapylights.eu/?srsltid=AfmBOoo2cCKKYMO53w...
- aussieguy1234 10mo ago80-90% of the visible signs of ageing come from the sun. This is why, in older people, you'll find their body generally looks younger than their face. This is because clothes protected their body from the sun, but their faces were fully exposed. Always wear sunscreen on your hands, face and neck every time you go outside. If you're the type of HN'er that is on the computer all day and rarely goes outside, doing this on the few occasions you do will take away one of the only opportunities the sun will have to age you.
- _yb2s 10mo agoA lot of people are already vitamin D deficient and avoiding sun or using sunscreen more will make it worse. The health risks and consequences are much greater than that of sun exposure, which is likely why sun exposure decreases cancer risk and mortality rates substantially, despite the increased risk of skin cancer.
- lurking_swe 10mo agolooking young is a fine goal, but this advice is too general on a forum like this. The actual UV index varies wildly based on location and time of year. Your advice would be crazy in seattle or london for example. Except summer time, or if one works outdoors. You recommend I put on sunscreen when it’s cloudy, i can’t see the sun, and the weather app shows a UV index of 3? You did say “every time” lol. I’ve noticed people in this thread (not you specifically) don’t have the capacity for nuance on this subject. It’s baffling to me. Questions people should ask themselves: - how long will i be outside? - is it early morning or early evening? if so sunscreen is pointless. - what is the peak UV index in my location today? is it 2 or 11? - am i genetically predisposed to skin cancer, or have very light skin?
- cpncrunch 10mo agoLink to study: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12700204/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12700204/ Although I think the more interesting question is whether sunbed use increases or decreases overall mortality. The only study I can find is Lindqvist's: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/joim.12251?getft_integrator=sciencedirect_contenthosting&src=getftr&utm_source=sciencedirect_contenthosting https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/joim.12251?g... Overall, sunbed use reduced the all-cause mortality by a ratio of 0.77 or 0.87 depending on the model used. It increased the risk of developing MM, and the risk of dying from MM, although all-cause mortality was not increased even in patients diagnosed with MM. (This seems to be because there is a very low overall risk of MM mortality, but UV light exposure seems to provide a greater overall health benefit than the small risk of increased MM risk).
- anjel 10mo agoIts like everyone's arguing we should optimally live in darkness. As if 1. Humans didnt evolve living outdoors, 2. Everyone ages at the same rate 3. If they did, no one would ever get MM again. Like many things across the universe, too much of a good thing becomes bad. And "too much" varies considerably from one individual to the next. And no one in their 80s who avoided exposure to the sun is without wrinkles.
- throw-12-16 10mo agoLip fillers are the new artificial tanning. Looking forward to seeing the downstream effects.